The question on many Canon users lips.. will the R5 be able to record 8K RAW to the new Ninja + or are we restricted to what the R5’s current HDMI protocols allow and be only able to achieve 4K 60?
We're hoping for the same thing... Atomos have got more of a launch on 6th May so we're hoping for more details at that. There's a very specific mention of ProRes RAW 8K 30p with the R5 in their press release (we'll add the link into the description) so cross fingers! We'll get some updates out when we know more for sure.
@@GlobalDistribution My understanding is that HDMI will not be used with its standard protocol but with a proprietary protocol that allows to transfer higher data rates (probably compressed).
We suspect that the Ninja 5 plus 8k doesn't entertain the bmpcc 6k & bmpcc 6k pro being upscaled to 8k. Sadly however the Ninja V+ (8k) doesn't appear to entertain Blackmagic's BRAW format at 8k and doesn't look to be upgraded with these additional features anytime soon such as in future models such as the Ninja VI plus! Unfortunately ProRes within this configurment is only restricted to 4k 120fps! I would be happy to stand corrected whether this isn't entirely accurate, cheers!
I'm always confused about the middle ground when it comes to resolution and fps .... 8K30 - 4K120 - where's 6K60 ? Especially on cameras that already shoot 6K like S1H and ZCAM F6 etc.
What I’d like to know as someone whose never used prores, in terms of smaller file sizes to work with in either premier or final cut, is it worth paying thousands in aud$ for the ssd card for the atomos, preferably for my taste the Angelbird Atomos Master Caddy 2tb - costing 3k$ Or is prores not that much of an improvement to spend on an ssd card and just record internally on the r5?
If you're shooting with the R5 and a Ninja V or V+ then you'll be able to capture 12-bit ProRes RAW when recording on an SSD in your Atomos device. This will give you significantly greater image latitude and flexibility in Premiere Pro and FCPX while also working efficiently with your computer's CPU. If you use a Ninja V+ then you'll also be able to capture up to 8K 30p from the R5. Your Atomos device will come with a single Master Caddy II that you can fit with a 2.5" SSD. However, make sure you select your relevant Atomos device from the list at www.atomos.com/compatible-drives and only purchase an SSD that is approved and suited for your intended use. In terms of capacity, a 2TB SSD is a significant premium, and it's cheaper to buy multiple SSDs of a smaller capacity (such as 500GB), so really depends on how long you need to record for in a single take, or in rapid succession. It's super quick to swap SSDs during a shoot. The Angelbird AtomX SSDmini is nicely compact and will provide recording capabilities for anything you can throw at it, so maybe just consider smaller capacity drives to save on costs. In addition to ProRes RAW you also have the option to record to regular ProRes (video) which is less CPU heavy during the edit but still offers a better quality post workflow and post efficiency than the camera internal codecs will provide. It's also a more consistent bit rate, whereas ProRes RAW is variable based on the complexity of the sensor data from the camera - however this means ProRes RAW files can end up being smaller than ProRes video files. On the Ninja V+ you have H.265 as a built-in option too for quick turnaround or to significantly reduce your file size/storage requirements. This can be a paid-for license add on to a Ninja V.
@@GlobalDistribution wow, thank you so much for the effort you've put into this reply! i just did some quick research and the mini ssd 2tb costs 1k$ compared to the larger non mini 1.5k$ version. So already you've saved me 500$ thank you! I do prefer having 1 ssd card over a few for the reason that i dont enjoy carrying too much on location and also not having to interrupt shooting to replace them when full.
the only thing still questioning in my mind, is for 4k hq recording on prores, how quickly will that take up on storage. i know from the Deaf Director's youtube channel that 8k pro res puts out 20gb on just 10 seconds of recording time. So 4k hq prores id think would be half that? in which case shooting prores for 1 minute would be 60gb, 10 minutes would be 600bg. filming all day would be impracticable. Do you know what the actual 4k prores file size is? if its anything close to my estimation, would proress not be impractical?
@@andrelecozvideographer9030 ProRes is always going to take up more space, but the amount depends on your compression, frame rate, and how long you record for. This is where having a second drive comes in handy so you can offload one using something like YoYotta without losing too much time in the process. You'll probably fill a 500GB SSD in 30-40 minutes. There's also another benefit to using two drives: if you lose or damage one then you don't risk the entire project.
@@GlobalDistribution i see. At the same time, a 2tb SSD giving me potentially 2 hours would require me to have at least 3-5 2tb SSD cards for a full day of filming. Thats 3-5k$ in SSD cards 0o... not including second day or more shoots where i would have need to overnight transfer anywhere from 6-10 terabytes of data in order to empty SSD cards for the next shooting day. I dont think its possible to transfer that much data that quickly.
We can recommend the ZILR High-Speed HDMI cables as they have 4K 60p and RAW capable cables that will handle the 8K RAW output from the R5 to your Ninja+. They offer two lengths of the required full-size HDMI to micro (D) HDMI cable, a 45cm (part no. ZRHAD01) and a 1m (part no. ZRHAD02). ZILR cables feature secure cable connectors and are hyper-thin and lightweight/flexible.
GD, what about the Atomos Shogun 7, has it been abandoned? is the Ninja V + a better option for the future? is there a new firmware update coming for the Shogun 7?
The Shogun gives you multiple SDI inputs and camera switching, along with more screen real estate so it's still definitely a powerful product. All depends on what you need it do and the style of shooting you're working with. We've got a Shogun 7 on the FS5 in our studio, for example.
@@GlobalDistribution Thanks for responding. I am a documentarian and looking for a monitor, I love the look of the Shogun 7 but the Ninja V+ looks like a better monitor and has more features for a better shoot. Especially with the new S1h coming with 8K RAW, which would you buy now?
If you're on the go a lot then the Ninja V+ Pro Kit is probably the best option. You'd get RAW over HDMI (which the S1H does currently at 5.9K) and you'd get SDI RAW in there as well just in case. It also does RAW up to 8K 30p. It's smaller of course, so if you need the screen size and more inputs then go down the Shogun route. Check out Atomos' compatibility pages just to be sure: www.atomos.com/compatible-cameras?product=ninja-v-plus
The real question is how long before the R5 overheats even when recording to the Ninja V+ without card inside. According to @DeafDirector findings on his RUclips channel I’m kind of skeptical
That's definitely a good question... from previous experience, if the camera isn't recording internally you have a signficantly improved heat performance. We don't have an R5 in house, but if we can get hold of one we'll run a test and share the results.
@@GlobalDistribution here’s the link to @deafdirector ´si tests : ruclips.net/video/cddvvC6Ib3A/видео.html Would be interesting to compare indeed, with the LCD flipped out and off contrarily to his doing
Hey Daniel, Angelbird has just launched a CFast to SATA adapter, but CFExpress uses PCIe. So if you have any old CFast media the adapter could work well for you: globaldistribution.com/angelbird-announces-atomx-cfast-adapter/
the big problem for atomos is that more and more cameras can record very high bit rates internally, or even directly on an SSD ... all without going through an Atomos. hence the 8K ^^ otherwise they were dead, you have to go faster than the majority of boxes.
@@GlobalDistribution thats the one that I have but it writes 500 m/s max speed while 8k footage is known to need more than double of that at least for the R5, atomos people told me that the firmware update will be released by end of year so guess well see..
@@prskyviews You should be all good then. Atomos has rated the Angelbird SSDminis up to 8K 30p RAW. You can check out their chart here: www.atomos.com/compatible-drives?product=ninja-v-plus
@@prskyviews just to follow up and in case you haven't seen it, the firmware updates for external 8K ProRes RAW on the R5 and Ninja V+ have just been released: globaldistribution.com/8k-prores-raw-on-canon-r5/
Most HDMI cabling is rated for compressed consumer video signals so you would probably run into some difficulty with those either way. In terms of 8K and 4K 120p these are all RAW signals, so not rendered video pixels and therefore it's a different story. However, it's still recommended to use a high-grade HDMI cable such as the AtomFlex range as these are guaranteed to handle the RAW data signal. Again, cheap HDMI cables designed for domestic use will likely not be suitable to carry the data signal efficiently. If a cable is not suitable you'll simply just get 'No Input' reported on the Atomos unit. The important thing here is compressed, uncompressed and RAW signals. The AtomFlex range is guaranteed to handle RAW data signals as well as uncompressed video signals up to 10-bit 4K 60p.
i think you've just invented a new youtube category - a hands on review without having hands on the product you're reviewing.
The question on many Canon users lips.. will the R5 be able to record 8K RAW to the new Ninja + or are we restricted to what the R5’s current HDMI protocols allow and be only able to achieve 4K 60?
That is the question !
That is exactly what I want to know! Also will 4k120 be possible with this and the R5.
We're hoping for the same thing... Atomos have got more of a launch on 6th May so we're hoping for more details at that. There's a very specific mention of ProRes RAW 8K 30p with the R5 in their press release (we'll add the link into the description) so cross fingers! We'll get some updates out when we know more for sure.
@@GlobalDistribution My understanding is that HDMI will not be used with its standard protocol but with a proprietary protocol that allows to transfer higher data rates (probably compressed).
We suspect that the Ninja 5 plus 8k doesn't entertain the bmpcc 6k & bmpcc 6k pro being upscaled to 8k. Sadly however the Ninja V+ (8k) doesn't appear to entertain Blackmagic's BRAW format at 8k and doesn't look to be upgraded with these additional features anytime soon such as in future models such as the Ninja VI plus! Unfortunately ProRes within this configurment is only restricted to 4k 120fps!
I would be happy to stand corrected whether this isn't entirely accurate, cheers!
I'm always confused about the middle ground when it comes to resolution and fps .... 8K30 - 4K120 - where's 6K60 ? Especially on cameras that already shoot 6K like S1H and ZCAM F6 etc.
Good question
Why HDMI cable are using for 8k
What I’d like to know as someone whose never used prores, in terms of smaller file sizes to work with in either premier or final cut, is it worth paying thousands in aud$ for the ssd card for the atomos, preferably for my taste the Angelbird Atomos Master Caddy 2tb - costing 3k$
Or is prores not that much of an improvement to spend on an ssd card and just record internally on the r5?
If you're shooting with the R5 and a Ninja V or V+ then you'll be able to capture 12-bit ProRes RAW when recording on an SSD in your Atomos device. This will give you significantly greater image latitude and flexibility in Premiere Pro and FCPX while also working efficiently with your computer's CPU. If you use a Ninja V+ then you'll also be able to capture up to 8K 30p from the R5.
Your Atomos device will come with a single Master Caddy II that you can fit with a 2.5" SSD. However, make sure you select your relevant Atomos device from the list at www.atomos.com/compatible-drives and only purchase an SSD that is approved and suited for your intended use. In terms of capacity, a 2TB SSD is a significant premium, and it's cheaper to buy multiple SSDs of a smaller capacity (such as 500GB), so really depends on how long you need to record for in a single take, or in rapid succession. It's super quick to swap SSDs during a shoot. The Angelbird AtomX SSDmini is nicely compact and will provide recording capabilities for anything you can throw at it, so maybe just consider smaller capacity drives to save on costs. In addition to ProRes RAW you also have the option to record to regular ProRes (video) which is less CPU heavy during the edit but still offers a better quality post workflow and post efficiency than the camera internal codecs will provide. It's also a more consistent bit rate, whereas ProRes RAW is variable based on the complexity of the sensor data from the camera - however this means ProRes RAW files can end up being smaller than ProRes video files. On the Ninja V+ you have H.265 as a built-in option too for quick turnaround or to significantly reduce your file size/storage requirements. This can be a paid-for license add on to a Ninja V.
@@GlobalDistribution wow, thank you so much for the effort you've put into this reply! i just did some quick research and the mini ssd 2tb costs 1k$ compared to the larger non mini 1.5k$ version. So already you've saved me 500$ thank you! I do prefer having 1 ssd card over a few for the reason that i dont enjoy carrying too much on location and also not having to interrupt shooting to replace them when full.
the only thing still questioning in my mind, is for 4k hq recording on prores, how quickly will that take up on storage. i know from the Deaf Director's youtube channel that 8k pro res puts out 20gb on just 10 seconds of recording time. So 4k hq prores id think would be half that? in which case shooting prores for 1 minute would be 60gb, 10 minutes would be 600bg. filming all day would be impracticable. Do you know what the actual 4k prores file size is? if its anything close to my estimation, would proress not be impractical?
@@andrelecozvideographer9030 ProRes is always going to take up more space, but the amount depends on your compression, frame rate, and how long you record for. This is where having a second drive comes in handy so you can offload one using something like YoYotta without losing too much time in the process. You'll probably fill a 500GB SSD in 30-40 minutes. There's also another benefit to using two drives: if you lose or damage one then you don't risk the entire project.
@@GlobalDistribution i see. At the same time, a 2tb SSD giving me potentially 2 hours would require me to have at least 3-5 2tb SSD cards for a full day of filming. Thats 3-5k$ in SSD cards 0o... not including second day or more shoots where i would have need to overnight transfer anywhere from 6-10 terabytes of data in order to empty SSD cards for the next shooting day. I dont think its possible to transfer that much data that quickly.
I have a Canon R5 and Id love to record 8k raw on my ninja v but unfortunately I can't find any HDMI to MICROHDMI cable for that. Any recommendations?
We can recommend the ZILR High-Speed HDMI cables as they have 4K 60p and RAW capable cables that will handle the 8K RAW output from the R5 to your Ninja+. They offer two lengths of the required full-size HDMI to micro (D) HDMI cable, a 45cm (part no. ZRHAD01) and a 1m (part no. ZRHAD02). ZILR cables feature secure cable connectors and are hyper-thin and lightweight/flexible.
@@GlobalDistribution cool, thank you!!!
GD, what about the Atomos Shogun 7, has it been abandoned? is the Ninja V + a better option for the future? is there a new firmware update coming for the Shogun 7?
The Shogun gives you multiple SDI inputs and camera switching, along with more screen real estate so it's still definitely a powerful product. All depends on what you need it do and the style of shooting you're working with. We've got a Shogun 7 on the FS5 in our studio, for example.
@@GlobalDistribution Thanks for responding. I am a documentarian and looking for a monitor, I love the look of the Shogun 7 but the Ninja V+ looks like a better monitor and has more features for a better shoot. Especially with the new S1h coming with 8K RAW, which would you buy now?
If you're on the go a lot then the Ninja V+ Pro Kit is probably the best option. You'd get RAW over HDMI (which the S1H does currently at 5.9K) and you'd get SDI RAW in there as well just in case. It also does RAW up to 8K 30p. It's smaller of course, so if you need the screen size and more inputs then go down the Shogun route.
Check out Atomos' compatibility pages just to be sure: www.atomos.com/compatible-cameras?product=ninja-v-plus
@@GlobalDistribution Thanks for taking the time.
The real question is how long before the R5 overheats even when recording to the Ninja V+ without card inside. According to @DeafDirector findings on his RUclips channel I’m kind of skeptical
That's definitely a good question... from previous experience, if the camera isn't recording internally you have a signficantly improved heat performance. We don't have an R5 in house, but if we can get hold of one we'll run a test and share the results.
@@GlobalDistribution here’s the link to @deafdirector ´si tests : ruclips.net/video/cddvvC6Ib3A/видео.html
Would be interesting to compare indeed, with the LCD flipped out and off contrarily to his doing
@@24framestime That goes to the top of the watch next list then! Thanks for the link.
As an R5 user I’d love if somebody made an SATAiii sled for the Ninja V+ that held/used CFast express type B cards.
Hey Daniel, Angelbird has just launched a CFast to SATA adapter, but CFExpress uses PCIe. So if you have any old CFast media the adapter could work well for you: globaldistribution.com/angelbird-announces-atomx-cfast-adapter/
the big problem for atomos is that more and more cameras can record very high bit rates internally, or even directly on an SSD ... all without going through an Atomos.
hence the 8K ^^ otherwise they were dead, you have to go faster than the majority of boxes.
What ssd will we need for 8k raw? With an R5?
Check out the Angelbird AtomX SSDmini - that should support 8K RAW nicely: www.angelbird.com/prod/atomx-ssdmini-by-angelbird-2110/
@@GlobalDistribution thats the one that I have but it writes 500 m/s max speed while 8k footage is known to need more than double of that at least for the R5, atomos people told me that the firmware update will be released by end of year so guess well see..
@@prskyviews You should be all good then. Atomos has rated the Angelbird SSDminis up to 8K 30p RAW. You can check out their chart here: www.atomos.com/compatible-drives?product=ninja-v-plus
@@prskyviews just to follow up and in case you haven't seen it, the firmware updates for external 8K ProRes RAW on the R5 and Ninja V+ have just been released: globaldistribution.com/8k-prores-raw-on-canon-r5/
Using Prores with SSDs saves so mich time that the price is a steal for content creators 😍
Will HDMI 2.0 cables be fast enough for 8k or 4k120? Does the V+ have HDMI 2.1?
Most HDMI cabling is rated for compressed consumer video signals so you would probably run into some difficulty with those either way. In terms of 8K and 4K 120p these are all RAW signals, so not rendered video pixels and therefore it's a different story. However, it's still recommended to use a high-grade HDMI cable such as the AtomFlex range as these are guaranteed to handle the RAW data signal. Again, cheap HDMI cables designed for domestic use will likely not be suitable to carry the data signal efficiently. If a cable is not suitable you'll simply just get 'No Input' reported on the Atomos unit. The important thing here is compressed, uncompressed and RAW signals. The AtomFlex range is guaranteed to handle RAW data signals as well as uncompressed video signals up to 10-bit 4K 60p.