Wow... This is mindblowing. Never expected one can control a sensorless motor like this. Also amazing how the VESC project is going. I saw it first a few years ago, was like "it can't even do field weakening... meh", and now this. I work with BLDC motors with encoders and know they can run about like in the video. But doing the same thing sensorless is a whole different story.
You got me with the full torque at 0 RPM and then you pulled out the perfect position detection... I am blown away and I dont use words like these often. All without sensors...its amazing. I wish you would develop larger automotive inverter with high Voltage and current. I do work in that field and the Commercial inverters are trash compared to yours :D
Absolutely amazing innovation! You mentioned that silent 45 deg HFI has higher resolution than an encoder and even at "full load" you get tracking (and demoed it). I assume part of the reason for the high resolution is the motor construction? You have 7 pole pair motor so that's 7x the resolution? Now.. basic NEMA (hybrid) stepper motors have 50 pole pairs. "Different kind of motor" but actually more like 2-phase close cousins of the 3-phase BLDC motors you've demoed, especially given how modern/chopper stepper motor drivers drive them (FOC). The biggest problem with the stepper motors is that they can lose steps for which the usual fix is expensive servos. But now, how about applying the same silent HFI method in a stepper motor driver to get a very high resolution position (due to high pole pair)? Thus a stepper motor with no step loss (or "encoderless servo")! Which can not only drive to position but can also observe and account for deviations due to load. What do you think?
I need help, I have a project, a middrive motor for a bicycle, I use a 7070 motor, and a vesc 75100 controller, and a 48v 11ah battery, I noticed that the acceleration is very aggressive, causing the motor to break the reduction clutch bearing that I used it in the project, I already tried to make a negative acceleration curve, and even so, when accelerating, the engine starts very "violent" and gradually increases, I needed it to start very slowly in the first 2 seconds, and only then does it go up acceleration quickly, would you have any tips for me to achieve this? I use a common thumb accelerator!
Incrediable! Ive been following your work since around the time you first started. I feel privilege to have witnessed it grow. Ive been using your FW to control a kickscooter hub motor for a while. The ability to fine tune the controller to a specific motor is where your FW and tool shines. The more variables available for tuning the better in my opinion. The wizards will get you in the ballpark but man, after learning the how, whys and whats of some of the options Im so impressed with what Ive been able to achieve so far. Thank you!!!!
haha! That fault code phase filter got me when i tested riding my unicycle down stairs. Managed to run it out, then dropped my fault time out to a much shorter time :D
I just tried it with a onewheel motor and a Trampa 6-75 using 32kHz ZVF. Inductance is 200uH and Ld-Lq diff is 50. Unfortunately it didn't work at all. Just scary noises at 10% duty or at 4A current. Anything else I may need to change from the defaults for it to work better with this kind of motor?
Me too, it always failed. it just a demo he did , who knows it real or fake😢 You follow him step by step ,but maybe he hide some important thing in his project he never told you . so don't trust this guy 😢
@@活久见-q3f frankly your comment is just ridiculous. Benjamin is one of the most trustworthy motor control engineers in the community. Of course it’s real. Plenty of people have replicated it. But it just doesn’t apply to all motors
Hi Ben, Brilliant work as always on VESC. I updated my VESC 6 Mk 4 to FW5.3 yesterday and motor config ran fine however I went to config the App settings today and map my PPM values and I've got a Current Sensor Offset Fault on Phase 3 sensor. Is this possibly something FW related or almost entirely HW related and how can I troubleshoot it?
As far as I understood, speed is calculated from ERPM, diameter and poles. So max speed is expected to be max ERPM with same calculation. In my setup the motor reaches max ERMP but max speed in diagram is shown much higher. What I'm doing wrong?
I am wondering if i could use a 16x16mm drone fc, to flash vesctool to it, it has the same chip. and than use modified drone motors to make self balancing mini onewheel? not having hall sensors was the biggest issue, but this seems it could work well to play around with it
I guess it depends on how good your hearing is, because 16khz is still well in my range of hearing. I analyzed the noise a bit, I found that there are sometimes frequencies that go as high as 20khz and more rarely as low as 12khz. Any person under 23 or so can probably hear the loud 16khz... think of the younglings
I don't see the silent options you show in the vesc tool. I have downloaded the current firmware (6.00 FW_TEST_VERSION_NUMBER=42 = the same as the Beta Versions ?) and VESC Tool 3.01. Where can I find the Silent HFI options you show ? Or where can I download the software supporting Silent HFI ?
cant make FOC wotk only BLDC! coz it VESC cant even match corect motor pole number.. even if i know exacly that num,ber.. yout FOC foc me haRD.. FROM BACK.. never work with REAL" motor.. this kids toy is not even motor.. every timer just bzumping and doing bad work. even that reflashed howerboard desk was not only super quiet.. but acxtualy FOC and TORQUE with proper freewheel..
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
Wow... This is mindblowing. Never expected one can control a sensorless motor like this.
Also amazing how the VESC project is going. I saw it first a few years ago, was like "it can't even do field weakening... meh", and now this.
I work with BLDC motors with encoders and know they can run about like in the video. But doing the same thing sensorless is a whole different story.
guessing it wont work with a hub motor under heavy load.
That's incredible. Encoderless moderately accurate CNC machines with hard stop for zeroing should now be possible.
You got me with the full torque at 0 RPM and then you pulled out the perfect position detection... I am blown away and I dont use words like these often.
All without sensors...its amazing.
I wish you would develop larger automotive inverter with high Voltage and current.
I do work in that field and the Commercial inverters are trash compared to yours :D
There is a 100v VESC along with 100v VESC based controllers available unless you need something even higher voltage than that lol.
@@hairymanjack6767 flipsky can go up to 120v
Axiom vesc
Absolutely amazing innovation! You mentioned that silent 45 deg HFI has higher resolution than an encoder and even at "full load" you get tracking (and demoed it). I assume part of the reason for the high resolution is the motor construction? You have 7 pole pair motor so that's 7x the resolution?
Now.. basic NEMA (hybrid) stepper motors have 50 pole pairs. "Different kind of motor" but actually more like 2-phase close cousins of the 3-phase BLDC motors you've demoed, especially given how modern/chopper stepper motor drivers drive them (FOC). The biggest problem with the stepper motors is that they can lose steps for which the usual fix is expensive servos. But now, how about applying the same silent HFI method in a stepper motor driver to get a very high resolution position (due to high pole pair)? Thus a stepper motor with no step loss (or "encoderless servo")! Which can not only drive to position but can also observe and account for deviations due to load. What do you think?
Maan dogs and cats are gonna be mad. Kidding aside, top notch engineering!
This is crazy cool! Running sensorless solves a lot of problems when building PEVs! :D
but will it actually work with hub motors and a person standing on it?
Insane update man! The current HFI just not capable of quick start - stop on a rocky incline path. This is smooth
I noticed that it's not available yet in vesc tool app the option to change to 45deg vesc mode. Am I right?
An incredible job you just did! 👍👍
I need help, I have a project, a middrive motor for a bicycle, I use a 7070 motor, and a vesc 75100 controller, and a 48v 11ah battery, I noticed that the acceleration is very aggressive, causing the motor to break the reduction clutch bearing that I used it in the project, I already tried to make a negative acceleration curve, and even so, when accelerating, the engine starts very "violent" and gradually increases, I needed it to start very slowly in the first 2 seconds, and only then does it go up acceleration quickly, would you have any tips for me to achieve this? I use a common thumb accelerator!
Nice work! Really cool to see this evolve.
that's so amazing... Benjamin you're a genius. Thanks for all your work
Incrediable! Ive been following your work since around the time you first started. I feel privilege to have witnessed it grow. Ive been using your FW to control a kickscooter hub motor for a while. The ability to fine tune the controller to a specific motor is where your FW and tool shines. The more variables available for tuning the better in my opinion. The wizards will get you in the ballpark but man, after learning the how, whys and whats of some of the options Im so impressed with what Ive been able to achieve so far. Thank you!!!!
Absolutely speechless. This is amazing!
Great project, currently making a 3d printed rc car with the motor directly into the tire, this will give me the torque without a sensor, sooo cool
haha! That fault code phase filter got me when i tested riding my unicycle down stairs. Managed to run it out, then dropped my fault time out to a much shorter time :D
VESC united!
Its getting better and better....
And vedder!
This is work of a genius kids, so pay careful attention.
This is really impressive, good work
Your hardware and software is an art!👍
How to get access to the VESC forum: if I register there I'm not allowed to post new contents. Any help?
Would this work well with low kv outrunners? Last I tried hfi in 5.03 it didn't work well with the low kv motors I use
thanks man, I know that for some people that want a stealth board/bike this is a game changer
I just tried it with a onewheel motor and a Trampa 6-75 using 32kHz ZVF. Inductance is 200uH and Ld-Lq diff is 50. Unfortunately it didn't work at all. Just scary noises at 10% duty or at 4A current. Anything else I may need to change from the defaults for it to work better with this kind of motor?
Me too, it always failed. it just a demo he did , who knows it real or fake😢
You follow him step by step ,but maybe he hide some important thing in his project he never told you . so don't trust this guy 😢
@@活久见-q3f frankly your comment is just ridiculous. Benjamin is one of the most trustworthy motor control engineers in the community. Of course it’s real. Plenty of people have replicated it. But it just doesn’t apply to all motors
@@surfdado ok,fine, whatever, what I can say... Too young too simple.
Good evening
I'm sorry if this is an initial question, but where should I get the setting software for the ㍶ that is displayed on the monitor?
Hi Ben,
Brilliant work as always on VESC.
I updated my VESC 6 Mk 4 to FW5.3 yesterday and motor config ran fine however I went to config the App settings today and map my PPM values and I've got a Current Sensor Offset Fault on Phase 3 sensor.
Is this possibly something FW related or almost entirely HW related and how can I troubleshoot it?
This is incredible Benjamin! When will it become available Would it be possible to contact you to discuss a possible project?
Currently on FOC with a VX2 remote and a Maker X DV6-PRO ESC. What should i setup so i have some torque at start ?
Amazing work! I have been using vesc + magnetic encoders for a while, this looks very good alternative for replacing encoders.
Gold medal 🥇
Fantastic work.
As far as I understood, speed is calculated from ERPM, diameter and poles. So max speed is expected to be max ERPM with same calculation. In my setup the motor reaches max ERMP but max speed in diagram is shown much higher. What I'm doing wrong?
You are a magician!!!
Amazing work! Brilliant. Thank you for sharing.
What happens if your average inductance is a lot larger than the Ld - Lq difference? Is it still possible to use HFI?
I am wondering if i could use a 16x16mm drone fc, to flash vesctool to it, it has the same chip. and than use modified drone motors to make self balancing mini onewheel? not having hall sensors was the biggest issue, but this seems it could work well to play around with it
I guess it depends on how good your hearing is, because 16khz is still well in my range of hearing. I analyzed the noise a bit, I found that there are sometimes frequencies that go as high as 20khz and more rarely as low as 12khz. Any person under 23 or so can probably hear the loud 16khz... think of the younglings
Where can we test the beta firmware?
I don't see the silent options you show in the vesc tool. I have downloaded the current firmware (6.00 FW_TEST_VERSION_NUMBER=42 = the same as the Beta Versions ?) and VESC Tool 3.01. Where can I find the Silent HFI options you show ?
Or where can I download the software supporting Silent HFI ?
Already found it in the download files of the VESC Tool.
@@gatzetech3079 you got it working on your ride? Which version I have to get? Thanks in advance!🙏🏽
Hello super robot. Is VESC 100V 250A - 22s. Would work with PMSM 30Kv motor.
Is there any way to run encoder such as talaria sting , if I don’t know type of encoder ?
Very nice with scooter gmax g30 motor what do you think is the best settings?
where you get all your know how, can u recommend projects, forums, books, code samples?
nice project. Would you please show if it works with full load in speed mode instead of duty mode?
Does this work well on outrunner HUB motors for eBikes?
Will this work with ebike motors?
is possible to mount some kind of key to turn off ves controllers?
"And we can not hear it at all, this is completely silent"
I can still hear 16 khz... barely :)
Does it work in any motor? BBSHD or ebike hub motors?
Excellent
is nice idea to try beta on unknown China VESC? ^_^
Благодарю товарищ. Использую двигатель для подводного пропеллера. Иногда происходит странное явление, давлю на заслонку, а двигатель просто шуршит.
where to buy the vesc? 50a maybe enough
Can’t seem to get it wrote on hfi or 45.
Super coolt Benjamin :)
Wait, all of that is with the autodetect function?
Damn! Apparently I needed v6 controllers. too late now!
Can I use foc for high speed?
just wow!
Would this feature still work with phase filters disabled?
I wonder the same thing
Hats off
Pretty cool.
Will this work on old v2 VESC?
It should work on all versions, but it requires phase shunts to be silent.
@@Felix3301 I believe it does... just not sure if there were any breaking changes over the time.
@@BenjaminsRobotics Would this work with makerbase vesc 6.7? they mention in the description to turn off phase filters, would it work without that?
Ok, but, like. We need better instructions how to set this shizl up pls
i can´t make it work on my scooter gmax allways cutting!
u show it easy but in reality impossible to auto measure flux linkage , even the instructions in vesc doesnt help at all
😇 ᑭᖇOᗰOᔕᗰ
cant make FOC wotk only BLDC! coz it VESC cant even match corect motor pole number.. even if i know exacly that num,ber.. yout FOC foc me haRD.. FROM BACK.. never work with REAL" motor.. this kids toy is not even motor.. every timer just bzumping and doing bad work. even that reflashed howerboard desk was not only super quiet.. but acxtualy FOC and TORQUE with proper freewheel..
Does it work with hub motors?
Amazing