This anonymous caller was different. He is on top of the spiral downward of Watchtower and was able to articulate it so eloquently. Well done Brother Anonymous.
I absolutely agree. This one was different, and surprising to me. I was disconnected, but still a believer for years, yet I always felt something was wrong and, until I woke up, thought it was me. Now that I've been disconnected for a while, this young man provided some very surprising insights and 'secret' insider perspectives of not had since leaving. You nailed it, this call was different.
I'm always surprised PIMOs (especially someone in a position of some authority and trust) are willing to have their voice played. Wouldn't someone who knows him recognize the voice on the recording, potentially getting him in trouble with Watchtower?
@@Cat_Woods I've thought that too. No one's meant to be lurking (as this young man put it, though they do) so they'd need to be very careful with any approach.
Bisogna fare molta attenzione in questi casi ,perche il corpo direttivo ha incaricato un gruppo di uomini di seguire i siti apostati per conoscere cosa si dice sulla sua organizzazione in modo di essere informato ,per poi ribbattere e dare notizie attraverso i suoi video .da L'ITALIA.
@@gennaropannelli7138 Yes this is true, infact its an entire department at the headquarters where they collect all this data and opinions from apostates and store it in a separate database. Thats why for PIMI’s and even PIMO’s looking and lurking can be dangerous, talking and exposing yourself even more so.
The org was not built for this age. They will be around for years, but the message will be harder to persuade folks to join. Can you imagine their 200th year anniversary? "the end is coming soon!" just won't work.
@@terrestrialcelestial When I woke up at 13 years old I came to one specific realization, I was born for the sole reason of being a new drone for a publishing corporation. Just another expendable rank and file member. That was the only reason I came to existence. Then once I realized that, all the pain and depression I suffered, the stolen childhood of mine started to make sense once you realize the why. Well im 28 now and I will never EVER put my own children through that hell so many others like me had to experience.
Lloyd,I have been watching your channel “religiously “ for approximately four years now. I am not and have never been a JW but I gained an interest by doing a search on RUclips that resulted from pamphlets being left at the hotel I worked at on the regular. I always would look at them and think how insane and cultish the literature sounded, so I looked in to its source and found you channel. That is how I started to follow the genre of the JW apostate community. When you play these messages I am always moved by how much you have and continue to help people!!! I can’t believe I lived 49 years of my life without recognizing this crime of stealing peoples lives that was going on all around me, I had no idea, now it is the main content that I consume on RUclips. Fascinating and necessary. Thankyou for what you do!!!!!
I'm also a never-jw, my contact was through a study back in the 1980s and I've followed them ever since. Me and my mum spent a year on a study which led me to becoming an atheist, lol. We actually remained friends with the lady who took our study until she died more than thirty years later.
My mother and younger sister are JW, I never drank the cool aid. I took study just to please mother but after 2 or 3 weeks I ran them off. Since I was a child I always told myself . If I get baptized eventually I will lose my mother and sister, The day came along when dad passed away and mom had a decision to make . Stay with her JW daughter or come with me . She moved down from NC with me because she could not stand her Elder son in law. I proved to my sister and nephews for 12 years that you don't have to be a JW to be a good person and recieve blessings, It was my privilege and life's work to care for my mother up until her last breath. I developed a closer bond with my mother than her own sister daughter could have any day. Mom often would say to me Jehovah is proud of you for the way you care for me. well today I tell you I will care for my sisters disfellowshiped 18 year old son the same I did for mom. With love patients and understanding that they have been abused and brain washed until they,ve woken up. Mom woke up towards the end but I dont tell sis because why add insult to injury. However my nephew ? With gods blessing I will give him all that I have to give. My sister and brother in law tossed him away because a decision he made at 14 to become baptized and he has awaken during Covid. Life is precious . you don't throw your children away in the name of god.
Not attending the meetings during the pandemic gave people chance to experience normal life outside of the cult mentality via kingdom hall attendance. Its also given them unbridled time on the Internet researching the organisation & I personally know of so many who have walked away from the 'truth' now!
It not the truth but the lies lies lies a cult that Jesus has said to us to beware thanks i was in for 5o years their wt of may 2o19 have open my eyes to see how they disfelloship people and about pedophile
Wife and I faded out a couple years before this Covid debacle. Guaranteed I would’ve left by now with the ridiculousness of their masking and all the other measures. They are just using this flu to push their own agenda that we are ‘deep in the last days’.
Lloyd I second every flattering thing anonymous pimo ms said about you. Please dont ever underestimate the difference you have made and continue to make for persons who feel lost, alone, and have no idea how to start a different path for themselves!
The JW religion was never suppose to last this long. Armageddon was already suppose to be here many years ago, once the "this generation" that saw the signs of 1914 all died off, it was over for the JWs. they have since then shifted into a way more emotional message and have turned way more culty since then to keep current JW families hostage from leaving. Notice in there videos everything is about "how does this make you *feel*" "how would Jehovah feel" "how would your brothers and sisters feel..." It's all emotional manipulation crap now. It's all they have left since everything else has expired.
I have been thinking about this lately actually. And I think you hit the nail on the head here. I too think they are scrambling because they didn’t expect the world to last this long.
I agree with you completely! It's almost evangelical now - all emotion. I remember it being much more scholastic, studying (what I thought) were deeper biblical truths. I don't think books like the Revelation book or the Daniel book would even be studied now....it seems all very dumbed down.
@@brianatyre6756 i wasnt jw, but i eas brought up to not count on turning 30. am now 57. it really stuffed up my life. making plans was sinful, cause Jesus was coming back "any minute now". a lot of us married early because of that panic.
Please get out asap! We are here to cheer you on! The life outside is so much better than inside. You get to make your own choices without anyone controlling you or watching everything you do. Whats better than freedom
Since more than 140 years the presidents, directors & leaders of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society only have this goal: As much money & power as possible and to keep the Status Quo by adapting their chaotic teachings with unbiblical "new light"!
I'm too one of those pimo people, I think, got to know someone online during the pandemic and he tried to help me out and I'm having a hard time doing it, I'm 19 and still living home, can't move away to a university yet but I'm so happy for these videos, you and the people here in the comments are so comforting unlike what they taught us when they said that apostates are angry and, I don't know, demon-like, hehe. I was a bit afraid to watch these kinds of videos but the ex jw community actually seems loving. I understand that my friend was a really good friend for trying to help, even though he got a bit frustrated with me for not being able to start my own life outside the cult.. He had some good advice for me on how to get out but it was too hard for me to do yet so I'm going to spend this year learning more about why I have to and how I can leave
@@lovelifesmile Thank you, really. I'm a bit afraid but glad that I'm not alone. I hope I can leave the organization with my brother who's got some doubts too..
Hypnotoid, Recognizing the org is not the best option is indeed admirable at your age. I know you would love to bounce immediately and say, "later people" but you need to thread carefully. The org is a vicious entity. Suck it up, grind your teeth silently, hang in there until you are in a financial position to walk. Get out first and then encourage your brother so to do. Be careful now of what you say to him. Keep your plans close to your chest. Not saying it will happen but your brother might do a turn around and fall blindly in love with 'Jehovah'. Stranger things have happened. Best of luck and stay safe.
I am the true prophet follow me…. The earth is flat and if you disagree…. You’ll never see your family…..but I love you!!! We have all the answers obey us or die…. Wear a suit put on a tie….make money for the man in the sky don’t you know we love you??? Don’t ask for evidence reason or rhyme, give us all your money and your time…..just remember to tow the line…. Don’t you know we love you?
Great question Anonymous Caller. And thanks Lloyd for your reflections on this. I have to agree with the commenters saying the life of any religion is a long…lifetimes long.
I remembered years ago when I just started following this channel as a PIMO. I created a secondary channel solely to watch you and other apostate channels without it being in my watch history. I was called Monica Mullings under that handle and I would make sure that I don't google anything under my real account. The paranoia was palpable back then. I wonder how many people here may be doing the same thing. At the time it felt like I was the only PIMO being this paranoid. 😅
Smart! No one would think you were Monica. Shows the lengths people have to go through - this young man for example, who woke up 5-6 years ago and is still pimo.
This is a second YT account I created to watch videos like this. The final talk for the always rejoice convention was what jolted me to my senses. If the Bible says that sin and death will be thrown into the lake of fire, why would I still have sinful tendencies in paradise? Make it make sense Stephen Lett.
@@fulcrumtano1640 I've wondered about that. Will people always have at least the possibility of sinning - notwithstanding their ever betterment - and therefore be liable to destruction by Jehovah?
All I can say to the anonymous caller is: Think of YOUR own endgame and don't get tied in to WT. Live your life and have a think of how you're living and acting out a lie at the moment as a MS, active in the cong, and at the same time asking one of the biggest RUclips apostate questions 😀.
The JWs I see nowadays on the streets with their carts seem very lackluster and going through the motions,talking to each other and not really being proactive in reaching out.Some in particular post themselves outside a grocery store I go to with people walking by them and they don't say a peep.
yep apparently they didnt get the last CO special talk about what a lifesaving message the ministry is.. about how bloodguilty we would be for not not preaching with urgency.......what a JOKE......
@@Lovealwayswins1 crashed a cart yesterday, the zombie standing there had absolutely no love or empathy present. It was disgusting. All she could ask was what my point was, I walked away in closing with my point is your upholding unscriptural policies made up by 8 pinky ring lying frauds in New York city, it's the most dishonest religion there is. Anyone foolish enough to follow those crooks has simply allowed themselves to be labotamized...It breaks my heart, to see the mind control they have over soo many.
Sadly for this young brother i feel the same way but the thing is the strings or roots are deeply rooted in people the fear of losing the contact of your loved ones which is why the organization is still going on despite the several PIMOS.. sadly i knew it was gonna happen when i made my decision to never go back and took the hardest pill of never speaking to any of my friends and family who are JWs. I always hope something the Governing Body says just throws them for a loop even though they have already have... 😔
the misstake pepole do. Is when you got someone at the rope. they slow down. I kind of think they are going to get worst and more extreame. they fade in to obscurity.
They already started preparing for the decline when they requested all the donations be sent to Bethel. They have tons of assets that they can pull funds from as they restructure. They could end up like the worldwide Church of Cod and just continue to have devout members who will hang on right to their own bitter end
If you look at how long the Shakers(founded in Lloyd's home town as an aside) lasted being pretty much dead now after being down to 12 communities in 1920 that gives you the kind of time-frame you need, personally I would be stunned if there aren't some JW's 100 years from now.
@@Ballykeith Correct if you wanted to set up a religion to die quickly you would go with something like the Shakers, but its a good illustration of how long it takes to kill something off even when its in a really bad shape.
Religions with millions of members don't just go away very quickly. I don't believe in any huge, dramatic collapse. But I agree with Lloyd that this religion did in many ways peak somewhere in the 1990s. Basically, that was when its main prediction simply failed: By any even half-sane definition, the fabled "1914" generation that was never going to die out was now a thing of the past, and yet Armageddon and paradise were nowhere in sight. Then they had to start rethinking even that absolutely central doctrine, and it was grotesquely obvious that they were now moving the goal posts. And that is where things started falling apart, slowly but surely. I tend to imagine that we are now at about the highest number of members they'll ever have. Over years and decades, Jehovah's Witnesses will slowly dwindle, though they may perhaps try to hide this by tweaking the exact way of counting their adherents -- like including inactive ones as well as those who are actually out preaching. By mid-century, I tend to imagine the typical Jehovah's Witness as a somewhat elderly person whose main occupation is to interest people in the Watchtower website. The physical "literature" may largely be a thing of the past. I can see the Watchtower movement very gradually petering out in the second half of this century, unless it somehow manages to drastically reinvent itself.
“Bankrupt”isn’t quite the word I’d use, they have over $2 Billion, however, their ability to gain more money will hopefully be affected soon, and they’re lawsuits should do the rest to weaken them until the leaders disappear. For better or for worse, we will see
Speaking of babies... I always wanted to ask the elders what happened to the babies that died before they could "hear the truth"? Are they resurrected as babies? As adults? My mother's response was always "I'm sure Jehovah has a plan and we'll just have to wait and see." But the logistics of the New World always broke down for me if I thought about it for more than 5 minutes.
my mother always said 70' plus that those children would be killed at armageddon as well as it could be assumed if their parents were bad so were the kids
In the early and mid 60's hourly book study in someone home was very popular and basic, simple start with what started it Saturday field service Sunday meeting the big boom of recruiting has ended
If they would lighten up some of their family dividing rules and allow some other family members to explore outside belief or even no religion without punishment/consequences then they would have some respect. I was lucky enough to have a mom who bend the rules a little so we could play with kids of different faiths.
He’s right Lloyd in my hall usually it’s an 20-30% attendance to the meeting the rest of on zoom. Everyone around me is struggling. They are starting to “double” down a bit by saying “if you can come to the meeting come”. Ofc it was an announcement
The end game should be another Governing Body video with sad-faced Olivia. She goes to Liquor World with the biggest Governing Body fan of that store for a 75% off sale. Suddenly Olivia smiles watching Drunkenstein squeal with glee.
I think that as the current Governing Body member age, they're going to look for Governing Body Helpers to take over the denomination who will be even more strict and make the denomination even more exclusive. I think the JW denomination will be around for quite a while yet.
I mean i can see it even from the outside. when i was growing up in a CA college town on the central coast. They seemed more aggressive in going out in field service. Nowadays, I think that there is definite apathy in how they go "door to door" nowadays.
Thinking of what might become of a religion with such whole devotion demanded of it's followers.... The mention of Jonestown. It is something that I'm sure all who still have loved ones on the inside have thought about. It's natural for us as humans to mentally visit the worst case scenario. The witnesses just present in so many frightening ways, it would be scary to think of what happens if they are in it for power, and that power fades, will they fight for it? How?
@@Ballykeith True, right now, their numbers act a defense against more harmful cult behavior. Also makes the level of control they have, the segregation they have maintained with their members being in but not part of the world, just impressive.
I cannot see the current Governing Body stepping down to make way for the younger 'helpers' generation... They are WAY to arrogant as individuals to do that.
Don't you worry my friend. Rome was not built in a day. The longest rope has an end. What ain't meet you, ain't pass you. Fair and softly goes far. Never say never. Nothing lasts forever. Be patient, it will happen.
It's a different time now. The Internet is a game changer. It has been the death blow to many cults and is slowing down or halting the growth of JWs. The flow and ease of access to information is something the WT can't control anymore. The JW religion will eventually fade into obscurity probably within the next 100 years. It will always be around but just another cult that has zero relevance in modern era of humanity
@@cherylseebreth328 I agree wholeheartedly, Cheryl but I think THIS is exactly the same argument that the gb and jw's would have regarding the end! In fact, I'm SURE they feel this way albeit, deluded. Smh😞
it has collapsed, back in the 70's no one left... they might not attend but they still were believers...now people have the ability to get information from other sources besides wt
@@wayofthekodiak3118 You make a lot of sense. Several persons share your view. Me, I enjoy tearing them down. A friend of mine still thanks me for sending her videos when she was studying with an elder and his wife. She said she dodged a bullet.
Mark Sanderson will say to us they are defying expectations despite Satan's, and your, constant attack on them, because Jehovah is their rock. Lol. Also these are the final.part of the last days of the great tribulation. As you said, Lloyd, they refuse to die. It is inevitable, THEY WILL DIE.
Do you think that is really possible to GB persuades JWs to commit suicide or takes fanatical action, such as to refuge in a specific place against "some enemies"?
@@f4b1nho29 ABSOLUTELY!! Most will literally do ANYTHING the gb "encourages" (orders/demands) them to do without question as they believe it's coming from Jehovah God himself as they've been conditioned and groomed to believe. It's sad but something atrocious is definitely in the works and not enough is being done to stop it!! I'm actually afraid.😳😞 (My granddaughter is fully indoctrinated, living with me and I'm currently being bullied to bring her to the meetings by my EXTREMELY pimi mom) I'm sick over it!
Some people prefer to be fooled. There are older diehard JW's that have devoted their entire lives beveling in this cult. The biggest problem is that this organization has embedded into their minds, "Armageddon is eminent" Even though Armageddon is over 100 years late. Then there is the greed aspect, " You will live forever on a paradise earth" Just stick with us. When something is to good to be true, and it has failed several times in the past, we really need to readjust our thinking. The best, new light is when we see through this cult. Look up cult characteristics please.
8 million for a a long time. They are stagnated. SDAs founded around the same time and they have 25 million. And SDAs dont even peddle their goods like jws. So 8 million us no big deal.
Sanderson is the type of person that I picture, one day, needing a blood transfusion. And when the doctors say, "You're going to need a transfusion" and he says, "OK, cool...", a herd of members steps in and says, "WHOA, WHOA, WHOA! Hang on a minute. (Sorry, doc. May we have a word? OK? Thanks bunches) NOPE! Absolutely NOT, "brother". You get NOTHIN. Remember? The whole blood issue? Not gon doit!!!!"
I’m concerned Lloyd, this is the second voice mail video I have noticed you are no longer wearing your wedding ring. If this means what I think it means I am so sorry for you and your family. It doesn’t matter who broke up with who it is painful and sad for all concerned. Much love
I'm not a fraction as in the know as Lloyd or many others are here so keep that in mind, however, I'd make the prediction that this organisation will be in a very slow stubborn decline for many decades to come. I don't see it disbanding until the last person in it dies or leaves. Even if in a year it becomes 10% of the size it is now, it'll still be enormous and far reaching. I expect its influence on the lives of those we love will only be gone many decades after this organisation's last breath.
GB are gonna blame the rank and file for not showing up to the halls....sell them then from there on who knows......it's going to be more going out than coming in type thing
The smaller their group the more they feel the world is against them which makes them feel like they are in the right with their victim complex, I think thats how they survive so long. The best way to get rid of them is to teach people about them as well as teach critical thinking and not directly fighting against them. On a side note, i wonder what percentage of them are pimo especially with how few actually want to attend meetings directly.
I must say that I agree with other commenters that as human societies throughout the world change and become perhaps more progressive, the JWs will double down in their restrictiveness and exclusivity. They will develop even more of an "outsider" status in many cultures and societies. Their views might become more radical, not the in physical sense, but psychologically, emotionally and culturally. That seems to be what happens with fundamentalist religious groups. Remember, fundamentalist groups are conservative, and conservatism usually tends to reject social, cultural, political or religious changes that are more progressive. I don't see the Watchtower Society going in a more moderate or liberal manner. Would it be nice if they did? Sure, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I suppose it could happen if there were dissidents who left the Organization and created more liberal JW splinter groups, but that's the only way that I would see JWs becoming more liberal.
That’s an interesting thought that there could be splinter groups but I wonder if those groups would really be more liberal “JW” groups. Not that those would not be liberal but once they start to leave, question and peel away a lot of the theology and doctrines then would they still be “JW” rather than another small non affiliated denomination. And in fact once people splinter would they not want to make sure they drop any “JW” name etc ? That said if people are able to leave and create their own groups without the horrible teachings then I wish them well (and that’s coming from an atheist)
@@robertfreeman6082 I don’t think any of us would argue that it would be nice to live in a world with no war peace and happiness no sickness death etc….for all that’s what they preach it’s a lovely thought and I sincerely hope it happens….. however they are in la la land in a large way and need to change…..whatever our opinions and differences are I think we can all agree these men need to make serious changes in their organization or they will lose even more people….and continue their cruel behavior….it’s already happening online anyone can take a phone and look up the ugly history and the policies they have that are clearly cruel dogmatic and full of lies…anyone that knows it all will always fall…. I used to think I did I was one of them…. Now I’m starting over and way more open to evidence and reason than just believing whatever I’m told….I respect your atheism and wish you well….
The GB aid so elderly and so legally embattled that they won’t WB able to manage the iron fist they have terribly longer - I’ve been thinking for years now at tae point the GB will retire to an “advisory” role and let “the helpers” take over and reinvent the org as they see fit. Given the “overlapping generation” hilarity there’s no compelling reason to believe in “the last’s days” so they may even punt that
Historically religious movements thrive and wither and this organisation is no exception and the more rigid the movement the more they are likely to break This religious example have left themselves no ‘ wriggle room ‘,their doctrines are hard and fast. The old proverb of the mighty oak that is felled in a storm whilst the slender willow bends before the wind and survives is very apposite. I left in the 70s ,it was a kinder organisation then Today I couldn’t leave without reprisals
I've lurked since 2019, I could start a channel with my story. been out since 2012, but mentally was in til 2019, when I googled updates on the Russian issue and the CSA came up and I couldn't look back
It's a managed asset decline, then. Always collapsing from the level it's at, but to a smaller stable level, a bounce from the disposed assets. So they keep it slow + spin it out.
I think they will have to start to lessen certain rules. For example, disfellowshiping, they could get so desperate to keep people that "new light" will allow families to have a relationship with anyone disfellowshiped. They will start getting rid of their Bizzaro rules to try and normalise themselves to people.
I disagree for the main reason that the hole they’ve dug is already too deep. If they relax their rules on blood transfusions or shunning, then what does that mean for everyone who’s already given their entire lives for these rules? The thousands dead because they refused blood, the millions of families irreparably broken because of the shunning rule… if they go back now, how would witnesses who’ve already sacrificed everything react?
I mean they only seem to evolve,every time they are caught out they come back bigger and with "a new light" on things. Its odd, they never seem to go out of fashion. Would be interesting to see how they would collapse.
I think if his question was specifically geared toward the attendance problems they are experiencing (exacerbated by the pandemic), assuredly most have had the wind taken out of their sails and therefore as has already been mentioned in the comments, are struggling to return to “normal” JW life. As a consequence, some will dispense with it altogether. I think in his question he’s also eluding to the future of their teachings which Lloyd covered, I also think that the teaching style they’ve adopted fosters apathy. The video content of what has now become a full blown media agency in my opinion is very fabricated and mundane as they bang the drum of JW dogma in a fairly pathetic attempt to stay relevant. Dont expect videos or digital content to be a basis for the organization’s success, but expect it to contribute to the apathy problems they now experience like never before. If other examples of this are prevalent in the world, look no further than the psychological impact of social media on people’s well-being and productivity. There are hardly any positives. Also, I dont think doubling down on the aforementioned will fix the inherent problems they current face and should they choose that route, it would show a further lack of self-awareness from an organization that is just not self-aware.
It's everything. Banning in Russia. Child abuse. Overlapping generation nonsens. Lack of Love and joy congregations. Governing Body that looks more dead then alive. It's a long line of things that are making many jws think org is over euthy.
Not really, mainly the announcements and broadcasts where they complained about “more money going out than coming in”, as well as the massive Kingdom Hall sell off. We still don’t really know their internal finances though
My thoughts are that the organisation will continue to grow in the long run. The organisation will shrink over the next couple of years, but as newer generations grow, they will continue adapt and change the doctrines. This is evidenced by the change in the generations teaching and the move to streaming media. I see the pandemic and the fall out from the ARC as a catalyst for change. The current shrinking being on par with the loss of members post 1975. They are also doubling down on the shunning of family members, which coincidentally was introduced as a crescendo of the fall out from the 1975 prediction. Just as an example, we were taught as witnesses that the ones who stuck to Russell's teachings faded out. However Lloyd knows from firsthand experience that there are now over a million members of the "the bible students". This was largely due to the organisation members having children and the resulting generations of believers. Additionally as an even more extreme example, 40 years ago no one would have thought that theories of the earth being flat would ever make a resurgence like it has in the past few year. Or the groups with beliefs such a Qanon would ever be mainstream or have an impact on society, yet here we are in 2022 with such things. There will always be suckers and the children of suckers being raised to know no better. So as for the organisation collasping, no, I do not believe that would ever happen. It will experience some lows but ultimately continue to exist and grow. This is where the work of the ex-jw community needs to realise not only its importance. but also that they have a long road ahead of themselves in continuing to keep the discussion of whether it is "the truth" or not alive for members to find themselves and eventually wake up.
Lloyd, are you quite well? You look a little thin... Sorry if this question is intrusive, but it's not an exaggeration to say that I worry about you, because I have love and gratitude for you. You've helped me sooo much, that I want you to be happy and well. You deserve it!
I think lloyd is looking better than ever. Shorter hair, slimmer, fitter I'd say too. As a runner I often have some people that I dont look well but in fact I would be feeling great. Most of the ones who think I dont look well are obese and I think they see that as normal.
The implosion of the Herbert Armstrong church may be informative here. We might end up seeing different factions forming under different Watchtower leaders.
This anonymous caller was different. He is on top of the spiral downward of Watchtower and was able to articulate it so eloquently. Well done Brother Anonymous.
I absolutely agree. This one was different, and surprising to me. I was disconnected, but still a believer for years, yet I always felt something was wrong and, until I woke up, thought it was me. Now that I've been disconnected for a while, this young man provided some very surprising insights and 'secret' insider perspectives of not had since leaving. You nailed it, this call was different.
I'm always surprised PIMOs (especially someone in a position of some authority and trust) are willing to have their voice played. Wouldn't someone who knows him recognize the voice on the recording, potentially getting him in trouble with Watchtower?
@@Cat_Woods I've thought that too. No one's meant to be lurking (as this young man put it, though they do) so they'd need to be very careful with any approach.
Bisogna fare molta attenzione in questi casi ,perche il corpo direttivo ha incaricato un gruppo di uomini di seguire i siti apostati per conoscere cosa si dice sulla sua organizzazione in modo di essere informato ,per poi ribbattere e dare notizie attraverso i suoi video .da L'ITALIA.
@@gennaropannelli7138 Yes this is true, infact its an entire department at the headquarters where they collect all this data and opinions from apostates and store it in a separate database. Thats why for PIMI’s and even PIMO’s looking and lurking can be dangerous, talking and exposing yourself even more so.
The org was not built for this age. They will be around for years, but the message will be harder to persuade folks to join. Can you imagine their 200th year anniversary? "the end is coming soon!" just won't work.
Totally agree! It will consist of born ins and pimos more than new recruits.
@@terrestrialcelestial True! true!
@@terrestrialcelestial like the Amish. No new joiners, just families expanding.
Thank you, internet!
@@terrestrialcelestial When I woke up at 13 years old I came to one specific realization, I was born for the sole reason of being a new drone for a publishing corporation. Just another expendable rank and file member. That was the only reason I came to existence. Then once I realized that, all the pain and depression I suffered, the stolen childhood of mine started to make sense once you realize the why. Well im 28 now and I will never EVER put my own children through that hell so many others like me had to experience.
Lloyd,I have been watching your channel “religiously “ for approximately four years now. I am not and have never been a JW but I gained an interest by doing a search on RUclips that resulted from pamphlets being left at the hotel I worked at on the regular. I always would look at them and think how insane and cultish the literature sounded, so I looked in to its source and found you channel. That is how I started to follow the genre of the JW apostate community. When you play these messages I am always moved by how much you have and continue to help people!!! I can’t believe I lived 49 years of my life without recognizing this crime of stealing peoples lives that was going on all around me, I had no idea, now it is the main content that I consume on RUclips. Fascinating and necessary. Thankyou for what you do!!!!!
Thanks so much Jolene! I really appreciate your kind words and empathy as an ally!
I'm also a never-jw, my contact was through a study back in the 1980s and I've followed them ever since. Me and my mum spent a year on a study which led me to becoming an atheist, lol. We actually remained friends with the lady who took our study until she died more than thirty years later.
My mother and younger sister are JW, I never drank the cool aid. I took study just to please mother but after 2 or 3 weeks I ran them off. Since I was a child I always told myself . If I get baptized eventually I will lose my mother and sister, The day came along when dad passed away and mom had a decision to make . Stay with her JW daughter or come with me . She moved down from NC with me because she could not stand her Elder son in law. I proved to my sister and nephews for 12 years that you don't have to be a JW to be a good person and recieve blessings, It was my privilege and life's work to care for my mother up until her last breath. I developed a closer bond with my mother than her own sister daughter could have any day. Mom often would say to me Jehovah is proud of you for the way you care for me. well today I tell you I will care for my sisters disfellowshiped 18 year old son the same I did for mom. With love patients and understanding that they have been abused and brain washed until they,ve woken up. Mom woke up towards the end but I dont tell sis because why add insult to injury. However my nephew ? With gods blessing I will give him all that I have to give. My sister and brother in law tossed him away because a decision he made at 14 to become baptized and he has awaken during Covid. Life is precious . you don't throw your children away in the name of god.
You should avoid this human-trafficking creep.
Lloyd, i hope you heard this caller say it: what you do makes a difference !I could not agree more.
Not attending the meetings during the pandemic gave people chance to experience normal life outside of the cult mentality via kingdom hall attendance. Its also given them unbridled time on the Internet researching the organisation & I personally know of so many who have walked away from the 'truth' now!
It not the truth but the lies lies lies a cult that Jesus has said to us to beware thanks i was in for 5o years their wt of may 2o19 have open my eyes to see how they disfelloship people and about pedophile
At least one good thing came out of the awful pandemic.
@@katahdin5300 very true!
Yep woke up August 2020
Wife and I faded out a couple years before this Covid debacle. Guaranteed I would’ve left by now with the ridiculousness of their masking and all the other measures. They are just using this flu to push their own agenda that we are ‘deep in the last days’.
I woke up 20 years ago and I also watch everything Lloyd has to say. Please don't stop giving the highest quality of j.w. criticism!
This sums up me too.
Riassume tutti noi .
Lloyd I second every flattering thing anonymous pimo ms said about you. Please dont ever underestimate the difference you have made and continue to make for persons who feel lost, alone, and have no idea how to start a different path for themselves!
Their endgame: Hoping Armageddon arrives before they run out of money due to CSA settlements.
The JW religion was never suppose to last this long. Armageddon was already suppose to be here many years ago, once the "this generation" that saw the signs of 1914 all died off, it was over for the JWs. they have since then shifted into a way more emotional message and have turned way more culty since then to keep current JW families hostage from leaving. Notice in there videos everything is about "how does this make you *feel*" "how would Jehovah feel" "how would your brothers and sisters feel..." It's all emotional manipulation crap now. It's all they have left since everything else has expired.
exactly. they have outlived themselves.
I have been thinking about this lately actually. And I think you hit the nail on the head here. I too think they are scrambling because they didn’t expect the world to last this long.
I agree with you completely! It's almost evangelical now - all emotion. I remember it being much more scholastic, studying (what I thought) were deeper biblical truths. I don't think books like the Revelation book or the Daniel book would even be studied now....it seems all very dumbed down.
@@brianatyre6756 i wasnt jw, but i eas brought up to not count on turning 30. am now 57. it really stuffed up my life. making plans was sinful, cause Jesus was coming back "any minute now". a lot of us married early because of that panic.
I began studying in 1999 and was baptized on 2002. And now, I just gotta get the hell out !!
Congratulations! You sound as you can handle your shit.
Wow good for you …..
Yes get out. It an evil cult. I got out 2014. I was in about 19 yrs.
Run for your life and never look back….
Please get out asap! We are here to cheer you on! The life outside is so much better than inside. You get to make your own choices without anyone controlling you or watching everything you do. Whats better than freedom
Great show again Lloyd as always. Peace and love to you and your family.
Lloyd, as usual, you are measured in your responses and on the button.
Thank you Lloyd for your insight and hard work.
Since more than 140 years the presidents, directors & leaders of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society only have this goal: As much money & power as possible and to keep the Status Quo by adapting their chaotic teachings with unbiblical "new light"!
I'm too one of those pimo people, I think, got to know someone online during the pandemic and he tried to help me out and I'm having a hard time doing it, I'm 19 and still living home, can't move away to a university yet but I'm so happy for these videos, you and the people here in the comments are so comforting unlike what they taught us when they said that apostates are angry and, I don't know, demon-like, hehe. I was a bit afraid to watch these kinds of videos but the ex jw community actually seems loving. I understand that my friend was a really good friend for trying to help, even though he got a bit frustrated with me for not being able to start my own life outside the cult.. He had some good advice for me on how to get out but it was too hard for me to do yet so I'm going to spend this year learning more about why I have to and how I can leave
I feel for you and hope you can move on and discover the kindness and beauty still on the outside of the org. I wish you the best
@@lovelifesmile Thank you, really. I'm a bit afraid but glad that I'm not alone. I hope I can leave the organization with my brother who's got some doubts too..
Are you in U.S.?
@@lauragubala8313 Real solid advice!
Hypnotoid, Recognizing the org is not the best option is indeed admirable at your age. I know you would love to bounce immediately and say, "later people" but you need to thread carefully. The org is a vicious entity. Suck it up, grind your teeth silently, hang in there until you are in a financial position to walk. Get out first and then encourage your brother so to do. Be careful now of what you say to him. Keep your plans close to your chest. Not saying it will happen but your brother might do a turn around and fall blindly in love with 'Jehovah'. Stranger things have happened. Best of luck and stay safe.
I am super excited !! That cult needs to be stopped !!
I am the true prophet follow me…. The earth is flat and if you disagree…. You’ll never see your family…..but I love you!!! We have all the answers obey us or die…. Wear a suit put on a tie….make money for the man in the sky don’t you know we love you??? Don’t ask for evidence reason or rhyme, give us all your money and your time…..just remember to tow the line…. Don’t you know we love you?
You are one hell of a poet. Beautiful.
Brilliant 👏
Great question Anonymous Caller. And thanks Lloyd for your reflections on this. I have to agree with the commenters saying the life of any religion is a long…lifetimes long.
Really good question. I believe they are running out of many options and changes
We can all hope that you're right, someday it will be gone
I remembered years ago when I just started following this channel as a PIMO. I created a secondary channel solely to watch you and other apostate channels without it being in my watch history. I was called Monica Mullings under that handle and I would make sure that I don't google anything under my real account. The paranoia was palpable back then.
I wonder how many people here may be doing the same thing. At the time it felt like I was the only PIMO being this paranoid. 😅
Smart! No one would think you were Monica. Shows the lengths people have to go through - this young man for example, who woke up 5-6 years ago and is still pimo.
This is a second YT account I created to watch videos like this. The final talk for the always rejoice convention was what jolted me to my senses. If the Bible says that sin and death will be thrown into the lake of fire, why would I still have sinful tendencies in paradise? Make it make sense Stephen Lett.
@@fulcrumtano1640 Well said. I hope in time everyone wakes up and realize that Folgers is not what is in their cup.
@@fulcrumtano1640 I've wondered about that. Will people always have at least the possibility of sinning - notwithstanding their ever betterment - and therefore be liable to destruction by Jehovah?
Yea I used to do that when I started watching lloyds videos too. Probably because I was a teenager that was incredibly afraid.
All I can say to the anonymous caller is: Think of YOUR own endgame and don't get tied in to WT. Live your life and have a think of how you're living and acting out a lie at the moment as a MS, active in the cong, and at the same time asking one of the biggest RUclips apostate questions 😀.
Such an articulate individual thankyou for sharing
The JWs I see nowadays on the streets with their carts seem very lackluster and going through the motions,talking to each other and not really being proactive in reaching out.Some in particular post themselves outside a grocery store I go to with people walking by them and they don't say a peep.
Yes they are unable to refute and defend themselves when a person has a phone to show them how embarrassing the people they represent are.
yep apparently they didnt get the last CO special talk about what a lifesaving message the ministry is.. about how bloodguilty we would be for not not preaching with urgency.......what a JOKE......
You on should confront them. Dont have to mean but a stern message about why they are in a cult is needed.
One lady I used to see before lockdown was always eating her lunch 😁
@@Lovealwayswins1 crashed a cart yesterday, the zombie standing there had absolutely no love or empathy present. It was disgusting. All she could ask was what my point was, I walked away in closing with my point is your upholding unscriptural policies made up by 8 pinky ring lying frauds in New York city, it's the most dishonest religion there is. Anyone foolish enough to follow those crooks has simply allowed themselves to be labotamized...It breaks my heart, to see the mind control they have over soo many.
Sadly for this young brother i feel the same way but the thing is the strings or roots are deeply rooted in people the fear of losing the contact of your loved ones which is why the organization is still going on despite the several PIMOS.. sadly i knew it was gonna happen when i made my decision to never go back and took the hardest pill of never speaking to any of my friends and family who are JWs. I always hope something the Governing Body says just throws them for a loop even though they have already have... 😔
Yeah someday their going to be preaching to crickets after their foots get in their mouths
"Roadkill that keeps twitching" made me laugh! I hope that's an apt description!
the misstake pepole do. Is when you got someone at the rope. they slow down. I kind of think they are going to get worst and more extreame. they fade in to obscurity.
I like that analogy of the eight governing body member's being Zombies and twitching road-kill. Thaanks Lloyd for another interesting rebuttal.
The Watchtower is nowhere near going bankrupt. They are on a downward spiral, but not moneywise.
They already started preparing for the decline when they requested all the donations be sent to Bethel.
They have tons of assets that they can pull funds from as they restructure.
They could end up like the worldwide Church of Cod and just continue to have devout members who will hang on right to their own bitter end
They can only sell those kingdomhalls once.
If you look at how long the Shakers(founded in Lloyd's home town as an aside) lasted being pretty much dead now after being down to 12 communities in 1920 that gives you the kind of time-frame you need, personally I would be stunned if there aren't some JW's 100 years from now.
If you watched "The Expanse" there will be Mormons :)
@@rockpadstudios 🎵 Dum Dum Dum Dum Dum! 🎶
Yes and Shakers were celibate into the bargain!
@@Ballykeith Correct if you wanted to set up a religion to die quickly you would go with something like the Shakers, but its a good illustration of how long it takes to kill something off even when its in a really bad shape.
Religions with millions of members don't just go away very quickly. I don't believe in any huge, dramatic collapse. But I agree with Lloyd that this religion did in many ways peak somewhere in the 1990s. Basically, that was when its main prediction simply failed: By any even half-sane definition, the fabled "1914" generation that was never going to die out was now a thing of the past, and yet Armageddon and paradise were nowhere in sight. Then they had to start rethinking even that absolutely central doctrine, and it was grotesquely obvious that they were now moving the goal posts. And that is where things started falling apart, slowly but surely.
I tend to imagine that we are now at about the highest number of members they'll ever have. Over years and decades, Jehovah's Witnesses will slowly dwindle, though they may perhaps try to hide this by tweaking the exact way of counting their adherents -- like including inactive ones as well as those who are actually out preaching. By mid-century, I tend to imagine the typical Jehovah's Witness as a somewhat elderly person whose main occupation is to interest people in the Watchtower website. The physical "literature" may largely be a thing of the past.
I can see the Watchtower movement very gradually petering out in the second half of this century, unless it somehow manages to drastically reinvent itself.
Straight in the middle of the nail. Well putted according to my father whose English language skills were full 100.
Thanks to the caller for his message. I appreciate all you’ve done as well Lloyd 🌴👌
“Bankrupt”isn’t quite the word I’d use, they have over $2 Billion, however, their ability to gain more money will hopefully be affected soon, and they’re lawsuits should do the rest to weaken them until the leaders disappear. For better or for worse, we will see
Looking great Lloyd, it's been awhile since I tuned in.
It's been going this long I can't see it ending unfortunately.
Speaking of babies... I always wanted to ask the elders what happened to the babies that died before they could "hear the truth"? Are they resurrected as babies? As adults? My mother's response was always "I'm sure Jehovah has a plan and we'll just have to wait and see." But the logistics of the New World always broke down for me if I thought about it for more than 5 minutes.
my mother always said 70' plus that those children would be killed at armageddon as well as it could be assumed if their parents were bad so were the kids
@@downieduck2414 the hard heartedness this cult creates is horrendous.
In the early and mid 60's hourly book study in someone home was very popular and basic, simple start with what started it Saturday field service Sunday meeting the big boom of recruiting has ended
I think we all rely on Lloyds well informed opinions. ❤️
If they would lighten up some of their family dividing rules and allow some other family members to explore outside belief or even no religion without punishment/consequences
then they would have some respect. I was lucky enough to have a mom who bend the rules a little so we could play with kids of different faiths.
If they lighten up they might last way more than they would otherwise as well.
Brilliant video.. Thanks Loyd,it is rather exciting!
It's really happening now. There are a lot of wake up calls.
He’s right Lloyd in my hall usually it’s an 20-30% attendance to the meeting the rest of on zoom. Everyone around me is struggling. They are starting to “double” down a bit by saying “if you can come to the meeting come”. Ofc it was an announcement
The end game should be another Governing Body video with sad-faced Olivia. She goes to Liquor World with the biggest Governing Body fan of that store for a 75% off sale. Suddenly Olivia smiles watching Drunkenstein squeal with glee.
I am so glad to have your Chanel, thanks
It goes like the old saying that if you are bleeding, then you are dying. It’s just a matter of time.
I think that as the current Governing Body member age, they're going to look for Governing Body Helpers to take over the denomination who will be even more strict and make the denomination even more exclusive. I think the JW denomination will be around for quite a while yet.
I mean i can see it even from the outside. when i was growing up in a CA college town on the central coast. They seemed more aggressive in going out in field service. Nowadays, I think that there is definite apathy in how they go "door to door" nowadays.
"the road kill still twitching...😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
It's the other way round in my wife's Cong. Even with the recent letter to get the Zoom lovers back to meetings about 30 to 40% are staying on Zoom.
Thinking of what might become of a religion with such whole devotion demanded of it's followers.... The mention of Jonestown. It is something that I'm sure all who still have loved ones on the inside have thought about. It's natural for us as humans to mentally visit the worst case scenario. The witnesses just present in so many frightening ways, it would be scary to think of what happens if they are in it for power, and that power fades, will they fight for it? How?
Jonestown style will be difficult. They are too scattered all over the world.
If the cult majorly contracts - and that could be decades away - then such a scenario becomes a possibility.
@@Ballykeith True, right now, their numbers act a defense against more harmful cult behavior. Also makes the level of control they have, the segregation they have maintained with their members being in but not part of the world, just impressive.
Saving people from the organization is the real preaching work
I cannot see the current Governing Body stepping down to make way for the younger 'helpers' generation... They are WAY to arrogant as individuals to do that.
If people are smart, they will do what Revelations 18:4 says ".......get out of her my people if you do not want to share with her in her sins ."
Good one.
Amen!!!👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
50 years ago I can remember people predicting the collapse of the organisation of the JWs
Don't you worry my friend. Rome was not built in a day. The longest rope has an end. What ain't meet you, ain't pass you. Fair and softly goes far. Never say never. Nothing lasts forever. Be patient, it will happen.
It's a different time now. The Internet is a game changer. It has been the death blow to many cults and is slowing down or halting the growth of JWs. The flow and ease of access to information is something the WT can't control anymore. The JW religion will eventually fade into obscurity probably within the next 100 years. It will always be around but just another cult that has zero relevance in modern era of humanity
@@cherylseebreth328 I agree wholeheartedly, Cheryl but I think THIS is exactly the same argument that the gb and jw's would have regarding the end! In fact, I'm SURE they feel this way albeit, deluded. Smh😞
it has collapsed, back in the 70's no one left... they might not attend but they still were believers...now people have the ability to get information from other sources besides wt
@@wayofthekodiak3118 You make a lot of sense. Several persons share your view. Me, I enjoy tearing them down. A friend of mine still thanks me for sending her videos when she was studying with an elder and his wife. She said she dodged a bullet.
So thankful to see more and more JWs "waking up and leaving this CULT"!! YAY!! 👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻👍🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🌟
they're UNFORTUNATELY going to continue to slip through the cracks
Lloyd are you dieting. You’re looking slimmer. Well done bro 👍🏼👍🏼
Mark Sanderson will say to us they are defying expectations despite Satan's, and your, constant attack on them, because Jehovah is their rock. Lol. Also these are the final.part of the last days of the great tribulation. As you said, Lloyd, they refuse to die. It is inevitable, THEY WILL DIE.
Thanks Lloyd
I still fear Jamestown.
*Jonestown, but yes, let’s prevent that from happening again
Do you think that is really possible to GB persuades JWs to commit suicide or takes fanatical action, such as to refuge in a specific place against "some enemies"?
@@f4b1nho29 ABSOLUTELY!! Most will literally do ANYTHING the gb "encourages" (orders/demands) them to do without question as they believe it's coming from Jehovah God himself as they've been conditioned and groomed to believe. It's sad but something atrocious is definitely in the works and not enough is being done to stop it!! I'm actually afraid.😳😞 (My granddaughter is fully indoctrinated, living with me and I'm currently being bullied to bring her to the meetings by my EXTREMELY pimi mom) I'm sick over it!
@Mactus Dominus
Thank you, of course Jonestown.
Curious how an organization steadily loses it best and brights minds.
Some people prefer to be fooled. There are older diehard JW's that have devoted their entire lives beveling in this cult. The biggest problem is that this organization has embedded into their minds, "Armageddon is eminent" Even though Armageddon is over 100 years late. Then there is the greed aspect, " You will live forever on a paradise earth" Just stick with us. When something is to good to be true, and it has failed several times in the past, we really need to readjust our thinking. The best, new light is when we see through this cult. Look up cult characteristics please.
This defying of expectations is probably a sign of God's favor in their opinion.
That's exactly what they will opine. They are twisted like that.
3:05 I would like to know more about the PIMO Bethlelite that came out. Where can I find a video about his experience?
As long as there are believers it will continue and anyone that leaves just gets replaced, they have 8 million of them
8 million for a a long time. They are stagnated. SDAs founded around the same time and they have 25 million. And SDAs dont even peddle their goods like jws. So 8 million us no big deal.
@@cherylseebreth328 Adventists must be a classic example of adaptation to failed prophecies. The Great Disappointment was back in 1844!
When member's in western world get replace by Africans. Who is gonna give the donations they need?
Sanderson is the type of person that I picture, one day, needing a blood transfusion. And when the doctors say, "You're going to need a transfusion" and he says, "OK, cool...", a herd of members steps in and says, "WHOA, WHOA, WHOA! Hang on a minute. (Sorry, doc. May we have a word? OK? Thanks bunches) NOPE! Absolutely NOT, "brother". You get NOTHIN. Remember? The whole blood issue? Not gon doit!!!!"
I’m concerned Lloyd, this is the second voice mail video I have noticed you are no longer wearing your wedding ring. If this means what I think it means I am so sorry for you and your family. It doesn’t matter who broke up with who it is painful and sad for all concerned. Much love
Keep sweet and pray is what helped me to wake up
I'm not a fraction as in the know as Lloyd or many others are here so keep that in mind, however, I'd make the prediction that this organisation will be in a very slow stubborn decline for many decades to come. I don't see it disbanding until the last person in it dies or leaves.
Even if in a year it becomes 10% of the size it is now, it'll still be enormous and far reaching. I expect its influence on the lives of those we love will only be gone many decades after this organisation's last breath.
Looking good, Lloyd! Nice haircut and you look to have slimmed down a bit! Well done!
A caged animal with a billion dollars at its disposal isn't a caged animal
They duggg a hole for themselves realllly .
Very wise words Lloyd,
I feel sure the organisation will cease centuries before Armageddon arrives!
Lol, that would be ironic 😁
@@Ballykeith Right! The end of the org before the end of the world!! Imagine that!!
Armageddon as they believe it is never coming Roy.
GB are gonna blame the rank and file for not showing up to the halls....sell them then from there on who knows......it's going to be more going out than coming in type thing
The smaller their group the more they feel the world is against them which makes them feel like they are in the right with their victim complex, I think thats how they survive so long. The best way to get rid of them is to teach people about them as well as teach critical thinking and not directly fighting against them. On a side note, i wonder what percentage of them are pimo especially with how few actually want to attend meetings directly.
I must say that I agree with other commenters that as human societies throughout the world change and become perhaps more progressive, the JWs will double down in their restrictiveness and exclusivity. They will develop even more of an "outsider" status in many cultures and societies. Their views might become more radical, not the in physical sense, but psychologically, emotionally and culturally. That seems to be what happens with fundamentalist religious groups. Remember, fundamentalist groups are conservative, and conservatism usually tends to reject social, cultural, political or religious changes that are more progressive.
I don't see the Watchtower Society going in a more moderate or liberal manner. Would it be nice if they did? Sure, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I suppose it could happen if there were dissidents who left the Organization and created more liberal JW splinter groups, but that's the only way that I would see JWs becoming more liberal.
That’s an interesting thought that there could be splinter groups but I wonder if those groups would really be more liberal “JW” groups. Not that those would not be liberal but once they start to leave, question and peel away a lot of the theology and doctrines then would they still be “JW” rather than another small non affiliated denomination. And in fact once people splinter would they not want to make sure they drop any “JW” name etc ?
That said if people are able to leave and create their own groups without the horrible teachings then I wish them well (and that’s coming from an atheist)
@@robertfreeman6082 I don’t think any of us would argue that it would be nice to live in a world with no war peace and happiness no sickness death etc….for all that’s what they preach it’s a lovely thought and I sincerely hope it happens….. however they are in la la land in a large way and need to change…..whatever our opinions and differences are I think we can all agree these men need to make serious changes in their organization or they will lose even more people….and continue their cruel behavior….it’s already happening online anyone can take a phone and look up the ugly history and the policies they have that are clearly cruel dogmatic and full of lies…anyone that knows it all will always fall…. I used to think I did I was one of them…. Now I’m starting over and way more open to evidence and reason than just believing whatever I’m told….I respect your atheism and wish you well….
@@Lovealwayswins1 and best wishes to you.
Pardon the ignorance guys but some of us newbies have no F’ing idea what “pimo” is.
THANK U Lloyd for letting me know!!!
The GB aid so elderly and so legally embattled that they won’t WB able to manage the iron fist they have terribly longer - I’ve been thinking for years now at tae point the GB will retire to an “advisory” role and let “the helpers” take over and reinvent the org as they see fit.
Given the “overlapping generation” hilarity there’s no compelling reason to believe in “the last’s days” so they may even punt that
Historically religious movements thrive and wither and this organisation is no exception and the more rigid the movement the more they are likely to break This religious example have left themselves no ‘ wriggle room ‘,their doctrines are hard and fast. The old proverb of the mighty oak that is felled in a storm whilst the slender willow bends before the wind and survives is very apposite. I left in the 70s ,it was a kinder organisation then Today I couldn’t leave without reprisals
But didn't people still shun you at that time?
No. Most of my friends were JW s and so they remained. It was generally accepted that I’d changed my mind
@@davidmay3042 that’s great to hear and glad you were able to keep your friends when you left.
They will never give up on Dissing JWs...that's their last strong hold on the ones still in.
I'm a PIPO
What is a pipo physically in physically out ....
I've lurked since 2019, I could start a channel with my story. been out since 2012, but mentally was in til 2019, when I googled updates on the Russian issue and the CSA came up and I couldn't look back
It's a managed asset decline, then. Always collapsing from the level it's at, but to a smaller stable level, a bounce from the disposed assets. So they keep it slow + spin it out.
I think they will have to start to lessen certain rules. For example, disfellowshiping, they could get so desperate to keep people that "new light" will allow families to have a relationship with anyone disfellowshiped. They will start getting rid of their Bizzaro rules to try and normalise themselves to people.
Point!
I disagree for the main reason that the hole they’ve dug is already too deep. If they relax their rules on blood transfusions or shunning, then what does that mean for everyone who’s already given their entire lives for these rules? The thousands dead because they refused blood, the millions of families irreparably broken because of the shunning rule… if they go back now, how would witnesses who’ve already sacrificed everything react?
Sanderson is the Blofeld of the SPECTRE organization, Detective?
He's the michelin tires mascot that got a new jobe 😋
I mean they only seem to evolve,every time they are caught out they come back bigger and with "a new light" on things. Its odd, they never seem to go out of fashion. Would be interesting to see how they would collapse.
Why am I abusing a kitten? ....
"I learned it from a dummy...
"You can learn alot from a dummy"....
..."apparently ".....
I think if his question was specifically geared toward the attendance problems they are experiencing (exacerbated by the pandemic), assuredly most have had the wind taken out of their sails and therefore as has already been mentioned in the comments, are struggling to return to “normal” JW life.
As a consequence, some will dispense with it altogether.
I think in his question he’s also eluding to the future of their teachings which Lloyd covered, I also think that the teaching style they’ve adopted fosters apathy. The video content of what has now become a full blown media agency in my opinion is very fabricated and mundane as they bang the drum of JW dogma in a fairly pathetic attempt to stay relevant. Dont expect videos or digital content to be a basis for the organization’s success, but expect it to contribute to the apathy problems they now experience like never before. If other examples of this are prevalent in the world, look no further than the psychological impact of social media on people’s well-being and productivity. There are hardly any positives.
Also, I dont think doubling down on the aforementioned will fix the inherent problems they current face and should they choose that route, it would show a further lack of self-awareness from an organization that is just not self-aware.
It's everything. Banning in Russia. Child abuse. Overlapping generation nonsens. Lack of Love and joy congregations. Governing Body that looks more dead then alive. It's a long line of things that are making many jws think org is over euthy.
It's over for the organisation
How I wish to share my story all the way from South Africa.
What will the Governing Body do with the money made from property sales?
Is there something firm which suggests they are losing money ?
Not really, mainly the announcements and broadcasts where they complained about “more money going out than coming in”, as well as the massive Kingdom Hall sell off. We still don’t really know their internal finances though
My thoughts are that the organisation will continue to grow in the long run. The organisation will shrink over the next couple of years, but as newer generations grow, they will continue adapt and change the doctrines. This is evidenced by the change in the generations teaching and the move to streaming media. I see the pandemic and the fall out from the ARC as a catalyst for change. The current shrinking being on par with the loss of members post 1975. They are also doubling down on the shunning of family members, which coincidentally was introduced as a crescendo of the fall out from the 1975 prediction.
Just as an example, we were taught as witnesses that the ones who stuck to Russell's teachings faded out. However Lloyd knows from firsthand experience that there are now over a million members of the "the bible students". This was largely due to the organisation members having children and the resulting generations of believers.
Additionally as an even more extreme example, 40 years ago no one would have thought that theories of the earth being flat would ever make a resurgence like it has in the past few year. Or the groups with beliefs such a Qanon would ever be mainstream or have an impact on society, yet here we are in 2022 with such things.
There will always be suckers and the children of suckers being raised to know no better. So as for the organisation collasping, no, I do not believe that would ever happen. It will experience some lows but ultimately continue to exist and grow.
This is where the work of the ex-jw community needs to realise not only its importance. but also that they have a long road ahead of themselves in continuing to keep the discussion of whether it is "the truth" or not alive for members to find themselves and eventually wake up.
It is possible that a perhaps cynical but charismatic leader will supplant the governing body’s power, and become the sole executive.
Lloyd, are you quite well? You look a little thin...
Sorry if this question is intrusive, but it's not an exaggeration to say that I worry about you, because I have love and gratitude for you. You've helped me sooo much, that I want you to be happy and well. You deserve it!
I think lloyd is looking better than ever. Shorter hair, slimmer, fitter I'd say too. As a runner I often have some people that I dont look well but in fact I would be feeling great. Most of the ones who think I dont look well are obese and I think they see that as normal.
Lloyd looks great.
Maybe they will handout freeee donuts n coffeee to get them in
The implosion of the Herbert Armstrong church may be informative here. We might end up seeing different factions forming under different Watchtower leaders.
Isn't it true that they have stocks in a bomb company and other ones i dont remember?
They go to hell ? 🙏 🌎
They got most of those halls for free by the congregation