I see "What do YOU think" and then I feel obligated to comment. I'm not qualified to comment on Atmos til I've had some experience with it but I will say that, when my wife and I were younger we wanted to watch Silence Of The Lambs so we rented a VCR and watched it on our black and white tv with a 2.5" speaker. The movie couldn't have been more profoundly disturbing if it had Dolby Atmos. Now I must go and edit out guitar squeaks. Thanks for thi vid. Very interesting. I had no idea what Dolby Atmos was before watching.
Us over in the Atmos Mixing subreddit are all pretty excited for it/working with it. After I heard GOOD mixes that made proper use of it, I was hooked and had to start building out my own setup. I think the problem that some folks have with it is that there are a ton of tracks out there that just sound like crap. I suppose that’s because we’re going through a testing/exploration phase and getting used to what should be done vs what can be done.
For years I have used an LCR setup of PMC MB-1s for film scoring and REALLY love them. They are very wide range and sound absolutely effortless and transparent. Now that I'm retired, I miss being able to hear music through them - they are now in storage :( Thanks for the video!
I met Maurice at the PMC studios in London a couple of months ago, he gave us a demonstration on a duplicate setup to this one. It is an amazing sounding setup.
I mixed a little song in Logic with Dolby Atmos, as much as can be done with two monitors and headphones, then went back to a song in stereo and realized I am now ruined. Stereo sounds like AM radio, now. Panning a big drum kit in Atmos is pretty dang incredible.
Great tour, the room must sound amazing! Listening to this mono audio on my Klipsch 7.1.4 system 😅Currently working out the nitty gritty to set up an Atmos system in the studio, too. It's here to stay, I'm convinced.
really interesting. the most important point in this video is, be prepared. you touched on it briefly, stating that one should bounce stems. that would be an excellent video, giving advice on what kind of stems one should bounce, all tracks vs groups for instance. maybe you already explained that in an other video? cheers luc
I absolutely love listening and mixing to Music in Dolby Atmos... What I'm finding hard is getting artists excited about it. I see a lot of negativity around the format and feel people are a bit reluctant to embrace the format looking at how 5.1 failed for music. How do you think we could clarify that this is nothing like 5.1, and get artists and musicians to be excited about it? Edit- I obviously just got to the section where you discussed it. 🤦♂️
@@CarsonHoy thanks for your comment! I'm not sure what's difficult for people to understand? This is the format that Mixers are working in that can be used to create every immersive and surround format, it's fine if you don't want to do it, no problem at all. Just trying to help!
@@wrongfuture great Producers, Engineers and Mixers want their clients to have opportunities to get their music in Film and TV. Embracing the future shows you care about them and shows you're knowledgable about the industry you work in.
To me, the analogy to "why do we build amazing control rooms for stereo even though the audience will have subpar and inferior listening environments/equipment" does not fully work here as an answer to "why invest in such a rig?" for a couple of reasons: 1) because Atmos is a format which scales according to the playback device, an 11.1.6 setup will not give you the quality control for non-discrete setups because all these types use phase shifts, EQ, and reflection to mimic localisation of sound in a soundfield which essentially is still kind of like what is available from a stereo set. If you want to see how these non-discrete setups change your audio and how well that translates, get a few of those systems to check it out because any fold down option in the renderer is still discrete (with the exception of binaural); 2) when it comes to music playback (which is different from cinema-for which Atmos was invented in the first place) a lot of it happens on headphones meaning the consumer is presented a binaural rendering which also relies on phase shifts, filtering, EQ to mimic placement. You guessed it… you check that stuff on headphones, the 11.1.6 setup will not represent you how it will translate; The problem with Atmos for music is that it sounds amazing on discrete setups but that the translation is suboptimal (to describe it mildly) when non-discrete setups are thrown in the mix (soundbars, binaural, etc.) No matter what people claim, while those non-discrete setups can sound quiet good, the experience is really not even coming close to the experience of a discrete setup and here a discrete 5.1 setup (even with bass management!) will outperform an Atmos-enabled soundbar. Simply because discrete placement means exact localisations for any listener in any position. If you want an Atmos rig in your control room to mix music (not cinema!) on, I'd say stick to 7.1.4 . Because to perform quality control on non-discrete setups, you have to actually rely on non-discrete setups. And for discrete setups, this is the max you will probably find in households (perhaps with the exception of a hand full of people who have small theatres in their homes). The 7.1.4 setup will allow you to perform good quality control to see how it folds down to 7.1 and 5.1, the latter being still dominant as most surround sets are 5.1 sets. Depending on your panning choices and how much you rely on bed vs object, you might even get away with a 5.1.2 setup or if you are never planning on using the overheads, just use 7.1 That said, it is an awesome rig nevertheless
Thank you, Warren! Is there an online guide on upgrading a "home studio" for mixing in Dolby Atmos? It would be interesting to know what is the minimum one would need to invest further beyond the current stereo version in terms of audio interface, speakers, DAWs (I saw some DAWs seem to support Dolby Atmos better than others) and other required equipment and perhaps the room itself. Now, that would be a very interesting video too.
Will Dolby Atmos become obsolete in 10 years when we start installing titanium panels with low frequency information under them into the floor of these reference mixing studios? Tremors 8 anyone?
I watched the whole video … but didn’t catch a more detailed explanation of how speakers within the walls are supposed to project sound waves accurately.
So, the basic thing is that it's easier and more effective to convert down than to convert up. Atmos would be the top format able to be converted down to anything while raising the level of everything. Would that be right? Immersive is already normalizing in gaming I think. I have to wonder what Pink Floyd would have done with Atmos for The Wall.
If You want a proper job even mastering sidebof this thing you haveto have a 7.1 6 system 14 channel alltogether 7 strreo converter plus power amps plus speaker it a huge invesrment, it eont be easy , but we will see
@@Producelikeapro but if the playback system in the consumer's home didn't have speakers in the ceiling...would Atmos sound essentially like traditional 5.1 or 7.1 surround?
I'm sure dolby atmos in a 7.1.4 (or above) room does sound good for music but when rendered down to Apple spatial audio or atmos for headphones it is an absolute car crash of sonic gloop masquerading as the emperors new clothes, I have yet to hear a rendered down audio mix that is an improvement on stereo. I have AirPods max/AirPods Pro which offer a somewhat novel listening experience when viewing movies but I much prefer listening to music and movies on my Dynaudio LYD 48's and Dynaudio 18s subwoofer setup in a treated room.
Like all formats there’s good and bad mixes. I have many amazing mixes on Atmos that sound great also in Binaural and Stereo. I’ve also heard many absolutely terrible stereo mixes!
Ahh apologies, I didn’t see your reply/question regarding when I purchased the lyd 48/18s combination, Both lyd 48’s/18s we’re bought/ordered back in August 2021 but were only delivered in December 21, very happy with them btw, they’d be a good choice to review in your new studio. I dip in/out of the atmos/spatial audio mixes on Apple Music but there is very few in my preferred listening genre at the moment (electronic mostly). Enjoy the channel btw and the industry interviews are informative.
Scalable doesn’t address the question, just because the rendering engine can fold down to stereo doesn’t really address the why one would invest in a system that won’t be used in 99.99% of cases… It’s like virtual reality headsets, turns out that vast majority of people thought it was cool, but found it too intense to use and it flopped, it’s been around for long enough to know for sure it flopped… I’m not sure too many people are going to want sound following them around in an immersive way for any length of time, same with 3D TV, seen one of those for sale lately?… From looking into actual mainstream homes, my thoughts from direct observation is that people are looking for more and more simplicity and invisible technology, not giant ultra expensive playback systems or total immersive experiences in headphones that make them feel uneasy… Seems like the unanswered questions are more and more relevant…
Stereo sounds better than binaural IMO (how many end users will have a real atmos rig) You can put a stereomix as an stereo object inside a binaural enviroment for immersive programming in apps, move closer side to side etc Its expensive as hell, and budgets wont magically go up from the artist side, there is the argument of BARRIER TO ENTRANCE but is that really a good thing? As someone having not to many clients and budgets are low, (mixing for 10 years) am I now expected to shell out all my savings for even being considered? I hope there will be major resistance, I'm sure speaker makers and interface makers are happy though.
Hi Casper, I would suggest watching the video. We explained that Atmos is the format that folds to down to every format that is being required by Netflix, labels, Spotify, Tidal etc. FYI Kali's system is under 5k, which is less than the majority of Professional mixers spend on just a pair of speakers.
@@wrongfuture you did understand I"m not making monet doing this? I'm just trying to help people. Best to stay with the facts, which are, all of the record companies are going back through their catalogs, Netflix requires it for the music featured on their platform, movie studios etc, Virtual Reality. Systems can be bought for around 5-6k which is less than most professional mixers spend on a pair of speakers. What's your real name?
@@immersiveaudionft2203 agreed 100% Seeing as you understand this, I'm not sure what's difficult for people to understand? This is the format that Mixers are working in that can be used to create every format, it's fine if you don't want to do it, no problem at all. Just trying to help!
But who is going to pay for all this new format? Customers? Don’t think so, they don’t even want to pay for a stereo mix and I can’t see any record companies paying extra for Dolby surround mixes, so how is this going to function economically?
Many of us have been getting paid extra. Especially those doing the seemingly unlimited supply of reissues. The train has left the station. The more that stay off, the better for those of us that are on it.
Very rarely do you get the chance to get on the bus. This is one of those times. Usually by the time you hear of a trend or huge change you are looking at the tail lights. I for one love this.🤘🏻
Record Companies ARE paying for this to be done. Lot's of people are now working more than they have in years. Just to clarify, I am NOT making any money from doing these videos, my sole aim is to help people and educate them. Immersive audio is a requirement of so many companies now, it's ok if you don't want to be involved there are plenty who are mixing for people who have sound bars, surround systems, immersive systems etc at home and that number is increasing hugely. Plus of course immersive audio to go along with gaming systems that are Virtual Reality video
Murray it's here to stay, Atmos is what mixers are using to create mixes for AL:L formats. It's not about customers owning Atmos rigs, it's everything from Soundbars, to Binaural to Virtual Reality and it's a requirement for Film and TV
What do YOU think of Dolby Atmos? Have you ever used it in the studio before? Comment below!
I'm SUPER excited about it.
I see "What do YOU think" and then I feel obligated to comment. I'm not qualified to comment on Atmos til I've had some experience with it but I will say that, when my wife and I were younger we wanted to watch Silence Of The Lambs so we rented a VCR and watched it on our black and white tv with a 2.5" speaker. The movie couldn't have been more profoundly disturbing if it had Dolby Atmos. Now I must go and edit out guitar squeaks. Thanks for thi vid. Very interesting. I had no idea what Dolby Atmos was before watching.
Us over in the Atmos Mixing subreddit are all pretty excited for it/working with it. After I heard GOOD mixes that made proper use of it, I was hooked and had to start building out my own setup. I think the problem that some folks have with it is that there are a ton of tracks out there that just sound like crap. I suppose that’s because we’re going through a testing/exploration phase and getting used to what should be done vs what can be done.
@@leefchapman fantastic!
@@XenNightz thanks ever so much! I really appreciate your insight.
PMCs are gorgeous speakers! Thanks for the tour!
Absolutely! Thanks ever so much
Cozy Atmosphere :-)
Yes! Indeed
Wow this place is so awesome!
It really is! Great studio!
I'm sold. I am working on a new project starting Feb and I will be thinking Atmos from tracking on up. Thanks!
That’s fantastic to hear!
i'm like number 100 woohoo! Do I win PMC speakers!?
Haha yes! A chance to leave more messages!
For years I have used an LCR setup of PMC MB-1s for film scoring and REALLY love them. They are very wide range and sound absolutely effortless and transparent. Now that I'm retired, I miss being able to hear music through them - they are now in storage :(
Thanks for the video!
Thanks ever so much Michael for sharing!
Thanks very much for this video, Warren! This is very enlightening and an exceedingly interesting concept
Thanks ever so much! Glad you enjoyed it
I met Maurice at the PMC studios in London a couple of months ago, he gave us a demonstration on a duplicate setup to this one. It is an amazing sounding setup.
Fantastic! Thanks ever so much for sharing!
You’ll recognise the thumbnail pic is of the London room! Great setup there 👍
I mixed a little song in Logic with Dolby Atmos, as much as can be done with two monitors and headphones, then went back to a song in stereo and realized I am now ruined. Stereo sounds like AM radio, now. Panning a big drum kit in Atmos is pretty dang incredible.
Thanks ever s much for sharing your experience! That's powerful, coming from someone who has actually worked in the format!
Yummy PMCs :-)
Haha yes!!
Great tour, the room must sound amazing! Listening to this mono audio on my Klipsch 7.1.4 system 😅Currently working out the nitty gritty to set up an Atmos system in the studio, too. It's here to stay, I'm convinced.
Making the Most of Atmos!
Marvellous!!
More speakers, more in walls more more more 🤘🏽
Until you work out gravitational manipulation for audio replication 🤘🏽
Haha nice!
really interesting. the most important point in this video is, be prepared. you touched on it briefly, stating that one should bounce stems. that would be an excellent video, giving advice on what kind of stems one should bounce, all tracks vs groups for instance. maybe you already explained that in an other video? cheers luc
I absolutely love listening and mixing to Music in Dolby Atmos...
What I'm finding hard is getting artists excited about it. I see a lot of negativity around the format and feel people are a bit reluctant to embrace the format looking at how 5.1 failed for music.
How do you think we could clarify that this is nothing like 5.1, and get artists and musicians to be excited about it?
Edit- I obviously just got to the section where you discussed it. 🤦♂️
Haha that’s ok! Thanks for sharing your opinion!
The reason I’m not hyped is most ears won’t hear my music in atmos and my time is best spent on stereo recordings.
@@CarsonHoy thanks for your comment! I'm not sure what's difficult for people to understand? This is the format that Mixers are working in that can be used to create every immersive and surround format, it's fine if you don't want to do it, no problem at all. Just trying to help!
@@wrongfuture great Producers, Engineers and Mixers want their clients to have opportunities to get their music in Film and TV. Embracing the future shows you care about them and shows you're knowledgable about the industry you work in.
I've always thought applying it to navigational training in all kinds of situations could be amazing.
Fantastic!
Once you've heard it you will never want to work in Stereo again LOL
Agreed 100%!
To me, the analogy to "why do we build amazing control rooms for stereo even though the audience will have subpar and inferior listening environments/equipment" does not fully work here as an answer to "why invest in such a rig?" for a couple of reasons:
1) because Atmos is a format which scales according to the playback device, an 11.1.6 setup will not give you the quality control for non-discrete setups because all these types use phase shifts, EQ, and reflection to mimic localisation of sound in a soundfield which essentially is still kind of like what is available from a stereo set. If you want to see how these non-discrete setups change your audio and how well that translates, get a few of those systems to check it out because any fold down option in the renderer is still discrete (with the exception of binaural);
2) when it comes to music playback (which is different from cinema-for which Atmos was invented in the first place) a lot of it happens on headphones meaning the consumer is presented a binaural rendering which also relies on phase shifts, filtering, EQ to mimic placement. You guessed it… you check that stuff on headphones, the 11.1.6 setup will not represent you how it will translate;
The problem with Atmos for music is that it sounds amazing on discrete setups but that the translation is suboptimal (to describe it mildly) when non-discrete setups are thrown in the mix (soundbars, binaural, etc.) No matter what people claim, while those non-discrete setups can sound quiet good, the experience is really not even coming close to the experience of a discrete setup and here a discrete 5.1 setup (even with bass management!) will outperform an Atmos-enabled soundbar. Simply because discrete placement means exact localisations for any listener in any position.
If you want an Atmos rig in your control room to mix music (not cinema!) on, I'd say stick to 7.1.4 . Because to perform quality control on non-discrete setups, you have to actually rely on non-discrete setups. And for discrete setups, this is the max you will probably find in households (perhaps with the exception of a hand full of people who have small theatres in their homes). The 7.1.4 setup will allow you to perform good quality control to see how it folds down to 7.1 and 5.1, the latter being still dominant as most surround sets are 5.1 sets.
Depending on your panning choices and how much you rely on bed vs object, you might even get away with a 5.1.2 setup or if you are never planning on using the overheads, just use 7.1
That said, it is an awesome rig nevertheless
I'd do some dirty things for a Atmos room full of PMCs ... hey @Warren... help me out ??? Lol jk
Haha Shawn!
Thank you, Warren! Is there an online guide on upgrading a "home studio" for mixing in Dolby Atmos? It would be interesting to know what is the minimum one would need to invest further beyond the current stereo version in terms of audio interface, speakers, DAWs (I saw some DAWs seem to support Dolby Atmos better than others) and other required equipment and perhaps the room itself. Now, that would be a very interesting video too.
Putting one together now! Great idea
Good things to things about. Thanks
How will mixroom acoustics change when setting up/building for Dolby Atmos?
@Doctaj54
"A good song is a good song no matter format"
Exactly!
I get it there's all the possibilities... but I'm a vinyl 2ch lover I can't help it!
Thanks for sharing!
So, you are saying that no one is going to brake test ATMOS??
Hahaha maybe if there were some Formula One drivers here! Haha
Will Dolby Atmos become obsolete in 10 years when we start installing titanium panels with low frequency information under them into the floor of these reference mixing studios?
Tremors 8 anyone?
Haha thanks for that!
@@Producelikeapro You have likely seen the MGM Sphere in Vegas. pretty wild.
@@bnosel I haven't but I will check it out now!
@@Producelikeapro friend of mine works for Powersoft, had a hand in this, and brought this to my attention.
I watched the whole video … but didn’t catch a more detailed explanation of how speakers within the walls are supposed to project sound waves accurately.
So, the basic thing is that it's easier and more effective to convert down than to convert up. Atmos would be the top format able to be converted down to anything while raising the level of everything. Would that be right?
Immersive is already normalizing in gaming I think.
I have to wonder what Pink Floyd would have done with Atmos for The Wall.
You are right its more easy to convert down, but you can make Atmos from a 5.1 with not much problems.
If You want a proper job even mastering sidebof this thing you haveto have a 7.1 6 system 14 channel alltogether 7 strreo converter plus power amps plus speaker it a huge invesrment, it eont be easy , but we will see
So, I don't get how Atmos is "immersive", but 7.1 isn't?
Immersive Audio is completely around you and above you, so it's 360. It has height as well as width.
@@Producelikeapro I'd love to hear a Hendrix remix for Atmos 😀
@@Producelikeapro but if the playback system in the consumer's home didn't have speakers in the ceiling...would Atmos sound essentially like traditional 5.1 or 7.1 surround?
@@JClay-lf7nx it is going to fold down to any format that people have. Atmos is the standard that mixers are using as it can be made into any format
@@JClay-lf7nx as 'Apple' said below this is the format everyone is mixing in that can recreated in all formats
I'm sure dolby atmos in a 7.1.4 (or above) room does sound good for music but when rendered down to Apple spatial audio or atmos for headphones it is an absolute car crash of sonic gloop masquerading as the emperors new clothes, I have yet to hear a rendered down audio mix that is an improvement on stereo. I have AirPods max/AirPods Pro which offer a somewhat novel listening experience when viewing movies but I much prefer listening to music and movies on my Dynaudio LYD 48's and Dynaudio 18s subwoofer setup in a treated room.
When did you upgrade from your KRK system you talked about on the KRK video?
Like all formats there’s good and bad mixes. I have many amazing mixes on Atmos that sound great also in Binaural and Stereo. I’ve also heard many absolutely terrible stereo mixes!
Ahh apologies, I didn’t see your reply/question regarding when I purchased the lyd 48/18s combination, Both lyd 48’s/18s we’re bought/ordered back in August 2021 but were only delivered in December 21, very happy with them btw, they’d be a good choice to review in your new studio. I dip in/out of the atmos/spatial audio mixes on Apple Music but there is very few in my preferred listening genre at the moment (electronic mostly). Enjoy the channel btw and the industry interviews are informative.
Very nive! Ohhh please de-es 😀 I cannot disable me hearing it
I’m guessing that’s a regional accent? Ha
@@Producelikeapro from hissss accccent I'd sssay he'ssss Dutcccch, from hissss name not so mucccch 😀
@@basbakker yes, Maurice is Dutch.
Scalable doesn’t address the question, just because the rendering engine can fold down to stereo doesn’t really address the why one would invest in a system that won’t be used in 99.99% of cases… It’s like virtual reality headsets, turns out that vast majority of people thought it was cool, but found it too intense to use and it flopped, it’s been around for long enough to know for sure it flopped… I’m not sure too many people are going to want sound following them around in an immersive way for any length of time, same with 3D TV, seen one of those for sale lately?… From looking into actual mainstream homes, my thoughts from direct observation is that people are looking for more and more simplicity and invisible technology, not giant ultra expensive playback systems or total immersive experiences in headphones that make them feel uneasy… Seems like the unanswered questions are more and more relevant…
Stereo sounds better than binaural IMO (how many end users will have a real atmos rig)
You can put a stereomix as an stereo object inside a binaural enviroment for immersive programming in apps, move closer side to side etc
Its expensive as hell, and budgets wont magically go up from the artist side, there is the argument of BARRIER TO ENTRANCE but is that really a good thing?
As someone having not to many clients and budgets are low, (mixing for 10 years) am I now expected to shell out all my savings for even being considered?
I hope there will be major resistance, I'm sure speaker makers and interface makers are happy though.
The binaural conversion is changing fast. To much money invested by the big players to not.
Hi Casper, I would suggest watching the video. We explained that Atmos is the format that folds to down to every format that is being required by Netflix, labels, Spotify, Tidal etc. FYI Kali's system is under 5k, which is less than the majority of Professional mixers spend on just a pair of speakers.
@@wrongfuture you did understand I"m not making monet doing this? I'm just trying to help people. Best to stay with the facts, which are, all of the record companies are going back through their catalogs, Netflix requires it for the music featured on their platform, movie studios etc, Virtual Reality. Systems can be bought for around 5-6k which is less than most professional mixers spend on a pair of speakers. What's your real name?
@@immersiveaudionft2203 agreed 100% Seeing as you understand this, I'm not sure what's difficult for people to understand? This is the format that Mixers are working in that can be used to create every format, it's fine if you don't want to do it, no problem at all. Just trying to help!
@@Producelikeapro the industry is changing fast. I am on the outskirts but can see it from here. Thanks for doing all the atmos stuff.
But who is going to pay for all this new format? Customers? Don’t think so, they don’t even want to pay for a stereo mix and I can’t see any record companies paying extra for Dolby surround mixes, so how is this going to function economically?
Many of us have been getting paid extra. Especially those doing the seemingly unlimited supply of reissues. The train has left the station. The more that stay off, the better for those of us that are on it.
Very rarely do you get the chance to get on the bus. This is one of those times. Usually by the time you hear of a trend or huge change you are looking at the tail lights. I for one love this.🤘🏻
@@d3vp131 yes, I am doing this to help people increase their business.
Record Companies ARE paying for this to be done. Lot's of people are now working more than they have in years. Just to clarify, I am NOT making any money from doing these videos, my sole aim is to help people and educate them. Immersive audio is a requirement of so many companies now, it's ok if you don't want to be involved there are plenty who are mixing for people who have sound bars, surround systems, immersive systems etc at home and that number is increasing hugely. Plus of course immersive audio to go along with gaming systems that are Virtual Reality video
Murray it's here to stay, Atmos is what mixers are using to create mixes for AL:L formats. It's not about customers owning Atmos rigs, it's everything from Soundbars, to Binaural to Virtual Reality and it's a requirement for Film and TV
Once you've heard it you will never want to work in Stereo again LOL
Indeed!