WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BE A cEDH COMMANDER IN 2023? - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST
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- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2024
- Dylan and Cam talk about what they look for in cEDH Commanders
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It was so great to meet you bois in Vegas! Let's play soon
Yes!! Next time we gotta make sure to get an in person game in. The weekend went by so quick
Don't want to *trigger* anyone but I feel like "Whenever" is a good indicator of cEDH viability
You win
I think this is the best episode of the podcast you've ever put out. This style of talking about the "why" by being both broad and specific at the same time - its just so clear and well communicated.
As you were talking about card advantage at first, I literally had the thought "what they're saying is specific to engines though and not so much cards like Omnath" and then you immediately mention that clarification... I was like "damn they're reading my thoughts."
Over five years ago, a brilliant friend and former Legacy storm brewer told me: "The command zone should support the main deck-not the other way around." I take that pretty seriously.
Biggest difference between any low power and high power list I make. Low power lists revolve around making the commander do the thing. High power lists are very focused on the 99 winning the game, sometimes the commander helps or is involved in a combo
Many engine based commanders break this rule. Winota and Kinnan have abilities so strong that they warp your deck enough where the 1 holds a higher weight compared to the 99 being the build around commanders. But decks like Blue Farm and rog/sai do rely much more heavily on the 99.
Sometimes. Sometimes your commander is a tutor like Rocco and you get to have a deck and commander that are nearly seamless.
Here, here!
Does that mean Gitrog is bad? Well, coincidentally I dismantled my frog deck about a week ago 😅
You two talking about "There's no point being the second fastest." Just reminds me of Talladega Nights. "IF YOU AIN'T FIRST, YOU'RE LAST!"
ComedianMTG and Cal really helped me understand why Tivit is so good and it definitely is a case where the 99 is the main factor, and Tivit is just a consistent way to turn the corner. They fill the deck with esper advantage pieces like Rhystic and Talion to generate tons of cards, then play Tivit when they have the combo. They always talk about how its not a deck centred around turboing out Tivit, because he doesn’t offer as much advantage as the rest deck of the deck does. He offers inevitability.
Dylan: “You can make any commander into a cEDH commander”
Rebell: “I made Hylda of the Icy Crown cEDH”
LRR: “we made Griffin Typal cEDH”
You guys have made getting into cedh fun!
Aye what's good love your vids bro
I am also a fan pls keep it up
Truth!
Sauron, the Dark Lord draws TONS of cards while filling graveyard to fuel breach/led/brain freeze, can go through your library so fast for thoracle combo, can also be a combo piece with doomsday. He’s also a beat down commander, and is super sticky
Loved this podcast. Most interestig topic so far.
@16:37 you mention that Jeska is the third part if a combo piece but one of my favorite decks is Jeska/Ishai Jeskai. And in that deck a turn 1/2 Ishai can be the only thing you need in a pod that's fast. (Can be meta dependent) but in my mind a speedy pod means an early Ishai can go off with just one round of spells. With triple damage all you need is to get to 7 power. But I dunno they can react. You generally need protection but what 2 card combo doesn't need that.
Great video, love hearing you guys break down your decks. It was great getting some games in with you guys in Vegas!
Damn, really impressed how you guys pronounced Tivit and Time Sieve right!
I would like to say I love it when yall. Read the cards. I'm probably one of the only people actually listining to these and not watching the the video
This! I put an episode on when driving. Most cards discussed on this podcast are ubiquitous, but it would be awesome to just briefly go over some of the lesser known ones when they come up.
Another thing to look for is if the commander is blue and black.
lol. For real. It has to have blue or black.
As a person piloting Mono-W Death and Taxes in cEDH, I vibe with this H E A V Y
Damn i love this archetype- what is your favorite Commander? Heliod?
@@supremecourt4131 I use Giada for Angel Shenanigans. Heliod is in the 99 for most cEDH matches tho.
Love this type of more general CEDH discussions. I think colors and being an outlet for a combo are also very important in commanders. Also crazy how much Jetmire has been talked about on the podcast. Love it.
They should print a dranith that stops active abilities from cards not on the battlefield (yuriko)
Finally a way to stop Channel lands
Pithing Needle does this to an extent
Sounds like you've never heard of containment priest.
Also stops cycling... and forecast. Not that forecast is worth thinking about
@@hotarias suppression field too
Hey Cam and Dylan! I know you guys don't do this anymore but will you guys consider doing more deck techs in the future? I only got into cEDH because of your channel and those deck techs really helped me start. Even now when building a new deck I'll still refer to those videos to help me make cuts. Cheers.
So glad to see Dylan trying Tivit! Excited to see what you think after playing it a while.
As soon as I saw play to win dropped a video, my heart leapt for joy😂🎉
I lost it at "You can play any commander" and you flashed up Prismaric Piper 💀 they'll never see it coming!
Something I find interesting, from a perspective in game design and with a true admiration as to how magic as a game comes together -- the 5 most important things needed for CEDH viability were 5 advantages, each of which I think is supported best by each respective color in the color pie. Mana advantage -- green. Card advantage -- blue. It's a combo piece -- black. Removal -- white. It's beatdown -- red.
Rograkh is a combo piece with cloudstone curio type decks
I don't know if I personally agree that every commander is cEDH viable. I'd consider the 99 is what makes it viable, and if the commander isn't a part of that then it's not really the commander being viable. There was a dude on reddit yesterday asking if his dinosaur tribal deck was cedh when it very clearly wasn't. And sure, you could take out the dinos and run generic Naya combo list for the 99 but at that point is it still a dinosaur deck?
No but u can run zacama combo and it’s definitey a dinosaur deck
Every Grixis commander / pair can be cedh. Just take a Kess deck and switch to random Grixis Commander. You'll have a tier 2 deck minimum.
I've got a Daretti, Scrap Savant deck that started as a casual deck, but at the moment it wins too fast for my casual table, so I'm working on improving it to be cEDH level. May not be the best for a cEDH commander, but it was actually my first deck I ever built, and started as gruul goblin tribal, so I think it'd be dope for it to be my cEDH deck.
Also one of my oldest EDH decks and, I think, the first that I actually tried to transform into a true cedh deck back in the days.
It's probably my weakest deck now, but I'm still having a ton of fun with it 😁 there is just something very satisfying about dropping a ton of stax pieces while looting through your entire deck.
Glad to hear you’re trying out Najeela again Dylan! I have a list that Ian helped me tweak it you would like to take a look at it let me know. I was able to top 16 Festival of Knights with the list, and it was my first tournament so if that doesn’t attest to its strength idk what does.
Ps. It was awesome meeting Tyler there!
I currently run a “najeela farm” build and I’m loving it. Tailon is amazing in addition to the cards you were naming. There’s one card in particular that’s been single handedly winning me games but it’s the secret spice. I’ll give you a hint…. No Touchy
That fast skit is funny! I mean, I like fast… And never forget, “If you’re not first your last!!” Epic quote!!
I’d love for you to play Eriette as a CEDH deck!!
It's 2024 now and I was wondering what are your thoughts on Saruman of Many Colors in cEDH?
Pros:
-Esper Colors
-Disruption
-Built in protection
-Minor Grave Hate
Cons:
-High CMC
-Hard-Easy build around [3 CMC is the ideal 2nd spell so in order to trigger commander you need 3-4 mana of spell costs to trigger]
-'Could' benefit opponents
Great video, love your content.
I want to proxy a cedh dargo thrasios deck and wanted to know if someone has a good list and a deck tech(or combo line with dargo) or smth like that. thx in advance
Super relatable for me right now the be honest with yourself part I have a gigan / gyruda CEDH I built and like yeah I could make a better dimir commander but I also have a 0 card combo in the command zone with multiple win outlets and have been pretty consistent on getting him out turn 2
Every time I hear you say “she doesn’t even go here” it unlocks a core memory
My 2 pet cards in my cedh (korvold) deck are bitter reunion and old. My korvold runs every 1 and 2 cmc reanimate spells in the format and is a great reanimate target for korvold to swing and make 10+ treasures and bitter reunion is just great set up I've had a turn 1 bitter reunion discard old gnawbone then turn 2 reanimate old gnawbone with haste make 7 treasures good back up line for if dockside gets exiled or if my opponents don't have there stuff out for my Dockside to hit.
Haven't watched all of it but you need another category Tutoring commanders - Sisay, Zur, Magda, Yisan & Godo come to mind,
And maybe consider those that are an infinite mana outlet - Thrasios (already in other categories), Jeska, Kinnan? & Urza?
Rocco.
The best way to deal with not knowing a deck and potentially over and under compensating definitely table talk and discuss which is also relavent for super scary decks that need answers quick like Inalla, slicer, kinnan, winota, najeela etc (and gets aggro off me K’rrik)
I am trying to make a cEDH version of my Rionya fire dance for a while now cz she seems like she would be a lot of fun to play at a higher power level.
I love Rionya, it would be awesome to see her do the thing in a CEDH game! She's my personal favourite of my higher power decks
Great podcast! ^^
I do think you missed an important aspect of haymaker commanders. Life is a resource, and even one swing with atraxa can make an ad nauseam significantly worse.
Yargle and Multani ad naus, vanilla cedh commander love, can also randomly one shot people
Did cameras get changed y'all looking crisp like a new $100
The entire time they were ranting about rogsi being the fastest and anything is last I was waiting for them to quote Ricky Bobby; “if you ain’t first you’re last”
Love all the reminders that any commander can be cedh if your mindset is right. I completely agree that we should shy away from commanders that have strictly better versions of themselves already printed, but if a player is willing to join this format because of a commander they really feel connected to, then there is no reason we should being shewing them away.
“It combos with Diabolic Intent” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
43:23 I would suggest the funny and slightly confusing name FCC free commander casts for those cards
13:35 doggo plop is the content I'm here for
20:03 I think one more category you could add is control/stax ability with stuff like yasharn.
I won with Atraxa on turn 3 the other day. Smothering tithe on turn 2 helps a bit lol
I think two prime examples of wining with damage in the Comander that did not come up are Slicer and Etali.
Ive got a merfolk/god triba-lish deck in Bant that ive loved for a while. Its always felt "good" and maybe a little too strong for some casual tables. Tuvasa was my commander, almost entirely for the colors and as a mini voltron commander, and to keep in the merfolk theme.
The deck felt good, but never "great".
I heard about Chulane, went hmmm, that actually sounds like it would help me churn through my deck.
Jèsus ducking christo, i didnt realize how powerful the difference would be. I cant go back now, but i also feel bad playing against a ton of decks now.
When do we get an EU shop? I would love to buy your merch but I don't feel like paying the tremendous shipping cost ;/
You missed color access as the 6th aspect, access to U, B, and G gives you so many power cards for the 99.
G is currently the weakest color in current cEDH.
ok editing note the scrolling text over the slowly zooming background was dizzying to look at but otherwise banger episode as always
21:41 very true and relatable lol
Just getting into it, I tried turning my favorite Teysa into a cEDH deck then quickly realized I would much rather revert Teysa back to casual and play a good Mardu cEDH comandar instead
Me looking at Yisan “I knew you were a good boi”
I mean some of the qualifiers are a bit blurry , but we get card advantage because his tutor is technically a draw ?, also mana advantage because we are casting . He’s a combo piece/ outlet .
He’s not removing shit tho. And he’s not beating anything up himself ,
Casual player still xD Love the traits of a commander for what makes it good in cEDH. I'd maybe add in if it protects itself or your strategy in some way and how well it does that. Like if it naturally has hexproof or if it works like Mairsil so your other cards can't even be interacted with. I would also say my top 2 out of your traits are card advantage and removal, but maybe that's the control player in me xD Casual players also just don't play enough removal... Someone has to be the villain :D
I have decks that some can qualify as "high power" cuz I don't have ancient tomb, mana crypt and free counterspells (cuz I have bno money to buy them hehe)... but those decks do well against cEDH... I don't win matches as often as a more well tuned deck could but I do relatively god
Discussion question: how many misplays are too many in a game? Can you think of a time you had a drastic misplay but were able to recover?
Depends of the deck. Some decks can make basically no mistakes. No are very forgiving.
Rograhk combos with lots of things. Mainly cloudstone curio and relic of legends.
We’ve heard it from the great Ricky Bobby, and now we hear it again boys. If you ain’t first, you’re last.
I've always wondered if Old Rutstein could work as a raz reanimator/ chain fog cedh deck. Because as great as Gitrog is, I'm tired of seeing him being recognized and killed the second he enters :,(. You can even now bargain into like a yawgmoth or praeters grasp to steal a thassa haha. But if you don't feel comfortabale in mardu, then what hope do I have in golgari Xp
He could be food chain deck, it works fine
So where would Raffine fall under one of those 5 categories? It doesn’t provide you actual card advantage, it eventually provides a big beat down but that’s a little slower, doesn’t provide mana advantage, not a combo piece (unless you consider it a combo piece with Doomsday)…thoughts on cards or that nature that aren’t inherently clear
Shout to 'Malcolm'. Ramp and Combo in the C Zone
The thing with "pet cards" is I think it's more of a "piloting preference". No one is playing Grave Titan because he's super cool. You might however run a suboptimal card or extra redundancy because it helps YOU the pilot.
Just person experience, I switched over to Tayam. Love the deck, but that thing gets so convoluted I couldn't stand it. I switched to Hulk combo because I am more comfortable with that, and my win percentage went up 18% despite having a "less efficient" deck.
I’m curious what you all think of Cormela as a CEDH commander? I’ve been playing her a lot recently and she feels good, but sometimes not worth it? She provides mana and combo, but the cost is weird with fast mana. Do you think she’s worth playing since most people might not know where to interact, or should I just play a more consistent Grixis deck?
Aside from straight up forgetting, im curious if there is a reason y'all left out Slicer as a haymaker?
Before I watch I guess these:
- protection
- card draw
- mana generation
- combo with another card
- tutor
3 out of 5
They mention beatdown/haymaker and removal
Is Jhoria Weatherlight Captain cheerios still relevant in cEDH? I basically have the shell for it. I just need to add the counterspell suite.
Cam putting his hands on his head when he said it’s about your mentality. Haha
I won't lie, I haven't finished the vid yet but this has made me realize Lord of Tresserhorn is 100% viable as a cEDH commander; he's got the colorway, and by all accounts he himself can be a wincon on turn like 3 or 4 with chandra's ignition and infect if you have a god opening + opponents dropping lots of artifacts/enchantments
42:52 Commander Freebies
Curious how you'd classify Kraark/Sakashima? Combo piece is an easy one, but i could see an argument for mana/card advantage
I thinking trying to build meria red green artifact commander
That's a cute dog
For me, cedh is just wanting to go against the best. Whether you want to bring an S tier deck, pet deck or a precon is up to you.
Dylan playing Rog/Si??? let’s goooo
I normally play Najeela, but I have a spicy Thrasios / Vial Smasher (Manual Storm) build I am working on. I’m playing all the Guttersnipe type creatures and all the free instants, sorceries, and rocks. Do you guys think a Manual Storm build is viable in cEDH?
Can anyone help me with the link to the RogSi list they referenced at the end?
What about commanders that stax? Urza etc
Like Justice Potter Stewart said "I know cEDH when i see it."
I’m pretty sure it’s Imp’s Mischief. Ifcyfc-lmnop
What rog/si list are you running?
Animar....whispers from 10 years ago...still, my boy! Almost real ;)
Are you guys recording or streaming the tournament in Vegas? Love this episode!
Sadly no. You need a Creator badge in order to film anything. I (@thegildeddrakes) brought a full rig and was told to take it down because I didn't have a Creator Badge. Play to Win did not get a Creator badge either.
I'm still trying to make my Gaddock Teeg deck viable :)
Would The Rani be card draw with removal/aggro?
If Dylan is bringing blood pod to Vagas, does it mean we'll get more game play with it too??
I'd argue Roger is a combo piece with Polymorph effects.
While FIYCYC is way too hard to say, I think FIYCsquared could actually have potential to catch on. Or even FYCsquared if “if” is one of those words that don’t show up in acronyms
42:17 DUDE
You forgot to mention consistency to evaluate cEDH viable commanders. Yes, any commander CAN win, but can they win consistently?
Jack and Jill shirts? I’m down!
dylan, beware the trap of keeping a tivit hand that only casts tivit and doesnt do much else. ask yourself: am i out of the game if theres a drannith or if red blast/force of will eats my tivit?
t2 rhystic study is the gold standard for tivit. everyone is aware of him, expect him to get countered. he's a very fun deck that rewards patience, itll feel so different from your normal fast red playstyle
Puppy!!!
I play Drannith in Winota, I don't have it in any other deck. Winota is my stax deck and my playgroup know what that deck is all about, I built it like Lua Stardust did hers, I finally got my hands on a Rick steadfast leader now that they printed a universe within version. But yeah, I don't play Drannish anywhere else. I only play Mana crypt in my Temur pirates deck, same with Jewelled lotus, only that deck has it. I'm considering adding these mana rocks into decks with more expensive commanders like Marnius Calgar, I think it would be far to put them in there because he's like 5 mana so...
I traded for an Orcish Bowmasters card and I'm only gonna put it in Nekusar, when I finally am gonna build it, I'm not gonna play it anywhere else because I don't think its a very casual friendly card. same with opposition agent, own one, I've never played with it yet, but it's gonna go into Nekusar.
I'm in the process of taking apart and rebuilding my collection, the next deck I'm gonna do is take apart my Kyler deck and turn that into a Ardenn/Tana deck, just adding red. I wanna do a Voltron equipment deck and I just wanna use the mana base in my kyler deck + a few cards. after that, I'm thinking Orzhov.
what are you playing with Rog-Si? Polymorph? I'm looking at the themes here on EDHrec and polymorph has the most decks
Nice haircut Cam
Thanks!
"Ohhh, Muck Drubb!" *dead*
Rogrhak-y Bobby. If you're not first, you're last.
"Playing magic for 20 years"'made me laugh. I remember in 1st grade the principal took my magic cards cuz I told another kid I was gonna use them to raise zombies and he started crying. Been trollin since grade school 😎
Don’t be suspicious don’t be suspicious
come on, Dylan, build a Krark Sakashima deck. do it. do it. listen to the devil on your shoulder.
Man I wanna watch this really bad but the buzzing whenever it goes to Dylan’s camera hurts my head