$200,000 Student Loan And Only Make $45,000
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2019
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You can tell she listens to Dave. "Rice and beans, beans and rice, I'm not a doctor or a lawyer, I have a shovel problem"
CASEY MANLEY lol ikr
Stop being rude. Why don't you send her a big emergency rice and beans donation?
She wasn't listening to him when she signed the dotted line for the student loans
Brian Waller I’ve seen one clip where he said something else like “good” or what not.
That didnt help her. She still 200k in debt with small income
Dave Ramsey is a better career counselor than most high school/university counselors
yeah i can see him now... kids says i want to go to college and get a psychology degree.. dave says, 'your stupid'..
I had 40 students in my class and was told I couldn't take an art class because I registered too late. They were actually just trying to force me into an unnecessary course. That was in the 7th grade.... I ended up doing it anyway for one of my advanced learner courses but I finally accepted that I was gonna be on my own.
Dave gives useful advice!
Yes he is..he better than alot of parents that push their children into college.
ron whiteleo I don’t think he’d say that.
He’d say, and what side job are you going to get to pay for your degree? And what side jobs are you going to do that help you start working your own practice?
Your an "academic financial specialist" at a university? Hopefully you are teaching 18 year olds not to get 200k in the hole in student loans.
If she did that she would be fired.
You’re*
@@dragonfire595 Dude, I am making a post on youtube. Not writing an APA paper.
@@NeoAndersonReloaded Maybe, maybe not. It would be an ethical decision the commenter would have to make.
m ph The university hires these people to get students into loans. There's no maybe you will lose your job if you deny students or advise students against them. Be real no one in that position will advise them against the loans.
You can tell she listens to Dave when she said she's not a doctor or a lawyer 😂😂
Chris Invests lol yes and she has a shovel problem 😂
Beans and rice.
Beans and rice rice and beans too
Chris Invests she found dave ramsey too late. I guess young listeners wouldnt do that after watching 5 of his videos.
And preemptively says beans and rice
Before I started college I told a woman that I wanted to major in Music. She looked me dead in the eyes and said "that's a worthless degree." Back then I was offended because music was my passion. But, knowing what I know now she warned me. I wouldn't recommend going to school for a liberal arts degree. It sad how High schools mentors are not warning students about debt and degrees.
What do people do with a music degree, I'm just curious?
@@user-td7xf3gz4l lol what he said
@@user-td7xf3gz4l 1% make it big. 99% will work some low paying job that has nothing to do with there degree and will complain about there student loan debt and will be broke forever.
Music teacher, orchestra director, go into music business, etc
There’s nothing wrong with liberal arts degrees, it’s a broad field. Music doesn’t have a lot of potential and it’s more of a Fine Arts
There are so many people working in fields unrelated to their degree...the problem with 17 and 18 year olds deciding what they want to do for 40 years 🤷♂️👎
Yes. The majority of students after highschool shouldn't even go to college till later in life...simply bc no one knows what they want to do in life yet, not at 18 that is...and also the statistics says half of people goes to college don't even graduate.
Yeah Also with the fact that so many people change their majors in college(me included) I think that it takes a while into life to actually figure out what you want to do because something you like at 17 could be completely different than at 27.
I have a degree in Computer Science from 1997. I am a landlord / Property Renovate / cubicle dweller who does absolutely no software development whatsoever. I grew sick of it within 5 years of graduating and only stayed in it because of the pay. When I lost my job in the Obama recession I did not go back.
Exactly. They just look at the degree instead of the opportunities it brings
Truer words haven't been said
College degree is not a pre-requisite for success. Student loan debt is not a pre-requisite for education.
C B you missed the second part of her statement student loan debt isn't a pre requisite for higher education . If you are willing to hamper your entire young adulthood for a college experience, you are a fool .
@@bangladeshirealtor Right. But in addition to that, higher education is also not required to be "successful".
Cherry Tung - The Frugal Designer Handbag Lover I know , but statistically they earn more over their lifetime by a significant margin so the probabilities play up the need for pursuing it lol
When you have no role models growing up and your guidance counselors are low-key pressuring everyone into trying college, it's pretty hard not to go.
@cherrytung Couldn’t agree with you more I’m a 22 yr old, no bachelors only associates paid cash during my time my junior college. I’m currently in the car business making a six figure income. All the glory to God 🙏🏼
At least she’s aware of the situation and willing to move in the right direction starting now. That’s the most important part 😄
The most important part is actually making a lot more than $45K and sadly for most people that's pretty challenging. The majority of business jobs pay around $50K/annually. It's hard to surpass that for most people w/ average skills.
Lol so aware that she says she has always been business oriented and good with numbers.
What a joke
After college, our expectations be getting smashed by reality HARD!
My sincerest condolences. We all went through it.
Michel Hanson truth
Reality is HARD and very often HARSH.
haha yes. Even if we are actually a Doctor or Lawyer!
@@illegalalien6542 what do you do?
@@illegalalien6542 The stupid thing for me is that I went to college for over five years (comm. college). Lucky I didn't have to take out any loans.
Please folks, further your education but don't go into debt for it...
So many ways without student loans!
If only someone explained this to dumb 17 year old me.
It depends what you do. My wife got through undergrad with no debt. She then went to vet school and did a residency (for a specialty) and incurred 200k debt. Residency paid only 35k per year. But now she's in private practice and makes over 300k per year. We paid off her student loans in 2 years and with our combined incomes now save over 200k per year.
There are rarely black and white truths in life. Avoiding debt is great. But if there's a career that you love that will pay well but requires an advanced degree, it can definitely be worth it.
easier said than done, derick
@@james1000 how is that going for her? I want to become a vet. It’s the only thing I see myself doing. I plan to live in a RV and move to a rural place to pay it off and find. A job but this isn’t reality yet
I needed to hear this today. I got a business degree only to discover I want to turn my channel into tours, shows, etc. You may get distracted but the key is to keep moving.
Heeey, I didn’t know you watched Dave 👏🏾
Bossedup Yes I do!
I have a feeling this young lady is about to make a MAJOR comeback... Keep at it, stay optimistic and grind it out every day Heidi. 👍🏽
I hope you are right but I am not feeling it. Too far in the hole and I think she can/will find a job that pays 5-7 K more than she currently does but it will still take her 10 years to dig out. Let's be honest, a lot can/does happen in 10 years, so I'm guessing closer to 15 or more years before she is clear of the debt.
@@jayh40515 That's what I was thinking. $200,000 in debt is insurmountable at her salary, and would even be difficult if she were making double
@@nealkelly9757 yeah she's hopeless. I hope she is nice and eventually finds a partner willing to pay her debt.
Or I hope she's going to inherit enough money but considering how she was raised I'd guess it's not the case.
I have big respect for this lady because she doesn't bs. Dave didn't have to pull teeth to get to the meat. She definitely has the ability to overcome this.
My friends:
1. Make about $130K between them
2. Just bought a home that cost over $350K
3. Are currently financing about $80K in vehicles
4. Credit card debt - who knows
5. Student loan debt over $60k
6. Go on expensive vacations at least 3 to 4 times a year
7. Contribute very little to their 401k
8. Swear by cash back credit cards
9. Try to convince me they are winning and give me financial advice all the time.
Meanwhile, I’m debt free and have a net worth of over $500K. I’ll go with my plan.
Your friends are making $130k a year. Do you want to know where that puts them? In the top 3% of income earners, in the COUNTRY. Let me repeat that. If you make $130k a year you are a top 3%er. Your friends are living the good life. You should listen to people who are top 3%ers.
@@costco_pizza They're also nearly half a million in debt despite that income and borrow when they don't need to. High income doesn't guarantee you'll make it, plenty of high paid doctors and lawyers are in debt because they don't save money.
Weird flex but ok
@Prescription Peddler - a $350K home is reasonable on a $130K combined income? It’s not true debt. Are you for real? Stop making the mortgage payments for about 3 months and you’ll find out who really owns the home until that mortgage is paid in full.
A $130K gross income is really about 90K take home after taxes, health insurance, and other mandatory deductions from your paycheck. That amount of home is pushing it if they didn’t have all their other debt load. Just because you can make a payment doesn’t mean you can afford that level of house. That mentality is why so many Americans are in such dire financial straights. If either of them is out of work for any length of time, they will seriously have to consider filing for bankruptcy- they are that leveraged out. That’s my point and they are In what appears to be the circumstances of the vast majority of Americans these days. High income does not necessarily correlate to financial maturity.
@@costco_pizza - This is what happens when you only understand one side of the networth equation.
“I’ve always been business mind”
** takes out 200,000 In debt**
I guess common sense 101 was not taught
This girl is clueless. Where were her parents when she chose a private school and this career choice? They let her down. She needs some tough honest talk not the stuff Dave's giving her.
Brian Cross I have the same amount pretty much, but I didn’t take out $200,000. I got slapped with about $80K in interest, I’m imagining the same happened to her.
@@josephjakubec3171 she can't go back in time.
Exactly!
I love the calls where the caller actually wants his advice and will take it to heart and apply it. She’s smart. She knows exactly what her problem is. She just needed an outside voice to point in the right direction.
Does Dave Ramsay expect all 200 million US adults to earn 80k a year? Can everyone earn above median salary?
The answer is no.
Shhh,
The rich worshiping plebs need to be kept domesticated with the lie you're highlighting!
No, he does not, obviously. But he does identify where people can earn more than they currently do.
Does a teacher expect all his/her students to be above average? Or any leader? We try anyway.
Thank you for pointing this out. Dave gives good advice at times but he’s not always realistic about peoples’ situations.
You seem to think money is distributed from some central pool. Less productive people could become much more productive and they would get paid much more. Then the median salary would increase. All 200 million can make much more and the median would go up. That is what happens in the US and other developed countries. Productivity increases and people get richer.
"academic financial specialist" = helping kids ruin their futures by helping them take on debt to pay for the "college experience"
Academics often went wild on financial leverages. This is why the can only teach and depending on the mediocre salaries from grade D drop outs highly successful entrepreneurs to survive !
I knew a woman who works as a speech pathologist, she got her Masters in Speech Therapy.
She spent 200k to get a degree to help other students spend 200k to get a degree😳🤦🏾♂️
Private colleges are a RIP off 😞
community college and state school are the best
When I first got out of school with that 4 year degree I thought I was so smart and knew everything. I didn't know squat about anything useful. All valuable learning was on the job. That degree just got me in the door. Nothing else. And this was a business degree. If employers weren't so stuck on a degree, they could find a lot of great people, and the employees could start out at 18 years old and learn real skills instead of wasting 4+ years of their lives. Yeah, medical/law/engineering needs schooling. But most jobs? Nah. It's work experience that counts.
It's hard to decide what you want to do at a young age, With little to no exposure to the real world it becomes harder to decide where your heart lies.
Yes, how are kids supposed to choose a career without having ever worked a day in that job?
I’m 32 and I still don’t know...
@@sharonkathryn5565, and that's OK. You'll find your path. Keep your head up and keep going at it!! You got this.
The Inquisitor thank you! I’m a medical assistant but I can’t imagine doing this the rest of my life. I love photography but have to find a way to make money doing it!
The real world is full of temptations and lies.The young minds can be most easily corrupted by the many confusions which they never get to learn in high school.
This is a beautiful call. Truly helped me. 💕✨
Uneak Tershai Stay Strong 💪.
I am 💯
Uneak Tershai SMH my Birthday was in May 5. I just seen your RUclips Channel keep moving forward and stay Positive
I slightly disagree with Ramsey, but I do usually agree. Your in a rough spot. What Dave is saying is find a more lucrative but interesting position. I live in Phoenix too, rent is going up here and this place is getting packed. The companies that exist here generally aren't going to pay 60k++ for administration or entertainment planner too. Lotta insurance places and banking here. Your in the wrong town for music or entertainment, that would LA or Las Vegas at least. I honestly think you may be better off betting on the government since you work for a college and try to get loans forgiven in 10 years. I make 60k and I'm struggling here. I have no car payments or credit car bills too, just student loans like you. I think Dave's baby boomer side turns on when people mention student loans or rent, since those are millianial problems.
Uneak Tershai same
Her: "I want to help people get where they need to go."
Also her: "I don't know where to go."
P Sharpe that’s probably why she wants to do that
She needs to figure out how to help help herself. She hasn't a clue.
It's actually even worse than that ... she failed to learn from her terrible financial decision and her job is to now sucker youth into making the same decisions she did.
She should have become a taxi driver
@@taterrhead exactly! How bad is that
My daughter is in her first year of college getting a business degree. She picked the school that gave her the best deal. ZERO loans. I keep telling her that when she graduates, she will already be ahead of most people her she because she will have no student loan debt.
Academic financial specialist with 200K in academic debt... that is hilariously ironic.
*Gifted/skillful people are often paid less than the value they could provide when they don't know what direction to go, it's important to find direction(s)* 💪
@C B I feel this reply misses the point of my comment. And I'm okey with that.
Black Vito - Moneyology & Philosophy Best reply ever. Love your vibe.
@@N0V3MBER thanks Gene💪
That’s a great point.
All people are paid less than the value they provide. It’s called capitalism and that’s the point.
What she wants for her career, is EXACTLY what I want for mine. I am a senior in high school and have already started networking in the industry. I have even secured two internships. In the music industry, I have learned that it’s all about networking.
Would you even need to go to college with the track you're on?
High schools need career counselors to have this conversation with kids before they go to college.
Sorry Dave, this girl does not have a natural business acumen. Spending 200k to earn 45k is bad business acumen! 🤦♂️
People are under the impression that they will make more when they graduate. I’m pretty sure some of that amount is with aggressive interests. Business is a decent degree, but she said she took the first job she could. She just needs to increase her shovel.
She’s on median salary, that’s pretty good right?
I love your inspiration Dave! Just hearing her say "that actually gave me a lot of hope." Keep up the great work Dave.
Thank you for encouraging, and helping, these people rather than judging them like so many older people do.
This is my story, literally to the T. I went to school looking to be in music, came out with 100k+ of debt, tried to find a job in music and no one would hire me, so I ended up at dead end jobs that ultimately ended as soon as they began.
Working in our industry DOES NOT require a degree. It is always helpful to have one but my biggest tip would to be start working with artists very early on and CONSTANTLY network.
I make that much money with only a High School diploma. Never went to college. When I first entered the workforce I was working 40 hours making less than 20k a year. I stayed consistent and patient and eventually worked my way up.
Good job!!!
I love Christ for sending Dave.... THIS ONE WAS FOR ME.
I needed this.. I'm in the same boat. Thank you Heidi and Dave!!
Heidi, you can get out of debt!
This was a really good call! Thanks Dave
Heidi we believe in you!!! In ten years you’ll be debt free with a beautiful life! You’re a Future millionaire.
Awesome call! Dave really gave some good step by step advice here and she received it well.
I know many people with business degrees, whether it is in Finance, management, or sales that make great money... Dave’s advise is great
You've got this Heidi! Great call.
Around the 5-6 minute mark, he reminds me of the epic video from Mike Rowe about not following your passion but following opportunity and bringing your passion with you.
What’s the video?
Such wise advice. Thank you Mr. Ramsey.
I paid my loans. But she did not apply to public schools? That much debt would keep me up at night.
Join the military as an officer. Volunteer for deployments every chance you get. You can probably do 3 deployments in 4 years. You pay no rent or food while deployed and pay is tax free, so this debt might be gone in 4 years if you do that. You also get to serve and reinforce your resume if your military job is in finance.
What
It’s not the degree it’s the person that holds it. Even a history mayor with the rights skills and the thrive to want more can make a lot. A degree doesn’t get you a good job, you get yourself a good job with hard work.
I think that is why I absolutely love being an addictions counselor.
200 000 and ''Ive always been business minded'' yeaa right
She got right to the point! Great job!
OMG, that is what we pay our tow truck operators plus vacation, sick pay and bonuses. One of my sons is a certified welder and makes 100k with no loans that does not include his ot.
What location ur welder son work?
I love calls like this. I wonder how she's doing in her journey
I was in a similar situation. I worked a job right out of college that paid the bills not what I wanted to do and being rejected by other places got me discouraged from acting on my goal and doing what I got a degree in.
any updates please?
“What a mess”
$200K for a four year degree? 😮
She is young and can work herself out of this debt.
What kills you is not the debt is the *interest * most people are broke bc of that
she's probably paying 6% since likely a bulk are private loans. that's 12k a year just to pay the interest accruing and not even touching the principal.
WHY DOES THE GOVERNMENT CONTINUE TO LET COLLEGE STUDENTS GET INTO THIS MUCH DEBT AND KNOW THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PAY THESE LOANS BACK. NO WAY A STUDENT SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TAKE OUT 200,000 IN LOANS AND ONLY MAKING 45,000 AFTER GRADUATION
J Bizzle people choose their schools and majors and to take out debt, how is that the government’s fault?
+J Bizzle
Look at the government. It has no clue how to pay it's own bills. Sad.
Its a scheme. The government uses your loans an asset on the balance sheets and sells them as notes. Like a mortage. People can buy your mortage loan. Its way bigger then you can image. Thats why you can't discharge the loans becasue the buyers of the loans want security that they will be paid + interest. You can buy these loans also.
@@bigtittiedsaint exactly
Cause if the government decided where we can go to college
People would get mad about not having freedom
My first day in a college program that required me to take a career selection course, we watched a video talking about how we shouldn't think about money when choosing our passion. How we shouldn't have shame in changing our majors twice. Well I said if you want me to pay a school this much money, I better be making money after and not wasting it on useless electives.
Basically he’s telling / selling her on working toward 150,000 job ( just about any job ) because otherwise she cannot possibly pay off these loans.
Oh the irony...$200,000 for a business degree. Its a disgrace that our country allows this to happen. When I was 20 years old I got denied a loan for a $400 sofa so my roommate and I had no living room furniture 😅
Most people's limitations are self imposed. If you want to move up you have to be willing to change employers, move, work long hours and travel. It's a personal choice and not for everyone. I chose to forgo the income and be in my kids' lives and see them grow up. Its difficult to have both.
I'm looking for a very similar kind of job
I really enjoy the feeling of helping people out
She should try to become a manager. She likes "helping the artists get to where they want to go". She should reach out to local bands, and negotiate to manage them.
Working at a college degree minimum wage for the very system that extracted $200,000 from her. She can do much better.
it sucks how 90% of business degrees are useless unless you major in accounting
@@nizamahmed5607 yea but it's the only subject that is actually useful without master's/phds and internships. A business accounting major can actually get a job because that major is a useful skill. But the other majors need at least a decade of experience and knowledge to be usefull.
🙋🏾♀️ accounting major here. Trust me it’s worth it. Boring but practical. Made $80K out of undergrad.
@@andrea1rayne2sweet I reckon being a pro poker player is more difficult than accounting lol.
@@nizamahmed5607 yea Tru, but most degrees have 1/3 of their subjects as useless electives for credits. At least community colleges are cheap,don't have electives and are job related skills not airy fairy theory.
@@nizamahmed5607 Says you. My accounting major made me $6k/mo as an intern, my Junior year...
Not to be a Debbie downer but news flash, a degree is not needed for the music business.
People see the money we make and want to get into the field but never want to pay their dues. I would personally tell her to move out to LA and work in a mailroom for William Morris Endeavor or something similar.
@@exec.producer2566 how does one get in?
False. Dr. Dre has a phD
fauxbro1983 no. You don’t need money to be successful in music. He got his PhD after his success... his degree didn’t make him a great musician.
@@twincherry4958 social connections. Real ones. Not online profiles or any of that fake nonsense.
Dave gave her a free book and she even said thank you! Very rare for the caller to thank Dave after he gives them FPU or a free book
Good ear
Dang i really hope she makes it, that's a BIG hole to fill 😓
For the love of God......Stop telling people, especially young people, to follow their "passion". Passion, unless you are born a Trust Fund Baby, does not pay the bills. For 90% of the people out there graduating from High School/College,.......um.......they need to generate an income (job) after their education.
Pursue your "passion", or what I call a hobby, after your income producing job, or on the weekends/time off. In time, maybe your "passion" will pay the bills. A hobby, by definition, does not produce income. SMH.
Great advice!
Go home live with mom and dad pay minimum rent they require. Shovel all dollars to the debt.
2:44 No, It's not. Just because something can be hard doesnt mean you just quit.
I hope you heard the biggest takeaway in this video...
"When you use your gift, that's where you'll make the money".
Your gift allows you to be service based and feel fulfilled in your job, as well as, making money.
I am going to try these tips
I made 45k remodeling apartments working 40hrs a week (22/hr) and had full benefits, after getting a full ride athletic scholarship, after being raised in a 150/ week motel.
I moved on to become an auto mechanic and made 70k working 50 hours. My degree was BSBiology
Chalet N my parents stayed together, my dad made me start working at 8 years old cutting the grass at the motel. I had no idea we were poor until I was about 12. I had what I needed, loving parents who didnt spare the rod (or belt in my case)
Joined the military at 18. They paid me to learn a technical skill. Came out making $70,000. And now have a GI Bill, VA home loan. DEBT FREE. College is ridiculous!
Sometimes watching these videos makes me feel alot better of my own financial issues.
When will the audiobook of this new book come out?
This maybe harsh but, there comes a point in finances where what you want to do is no longer relevant. This girl along with many other people will get to that point eventually, it’s usually right around the same time as the bank comes to repo their car and home.
This girl has a ton of potential. She can do great things.
The best way to find a job is to start your career while in school. She should have gotten some experience in the music industry if that’s what she was interested in. Settling for any job will hold you back.
Hi! How are you Dave? I'm doing great folks get to the point...age profession salary and debt load smh
Dave please it’s time to start calling out how predatory our higher education system is.
Why is it ok to go into 200,000 into debt with no return on your investment. Private universities should be sued for preying on the young who are told that they need to go to college to be somebody.
Call this out please!
encourage community colleges first then transfer to in state uni
He does all the time.
I don't think she's going to get out this mess for many years. That interest is accruing and going to drown her unless she can 3x her income.
Yep, something drastic needs to happen. These loans capitalize interest, meaning, whatever interest not paid during the year, gets added to the principal, which it then adds more interest. It’s truly terrifying.
I hope the irony of her current job is not lost on her
"Very numbers minded"? Ugh.
She should look into project management field. With her drive, she could make $100k within 6-12 months.
Project management takes 5-10 years. Not 1 year....
@@JK20239 First, she already has professional experience. She would make that easily working in the construction or IT field. All she has to do is take professional development courses in Project management, construction and IT. And stay on top of her stuff.
@@sobc2737 construction? I work as an construction inspector. I see daily how much is involved in construction project management. 1 year will NOT make you a PM. She works in finance. Not construction. She could go in as an entry level estimator or field engineer. No way she is PM in only a year. 5 years minimum.
@@JK20239 yes. No one gets to 100k in 6 months or else everyone would be doing it even with the exp she has which is kinds useless
unlikely, unless it was managing a ponzi scheme. nobody will hire someone without proven experience.
It sounds kind of bad to say out loud I guess, but I'm glad I never took out that much student loan debts like she did. I got my first degree with the 27K in student loans, and then about to graduate with my BS in Cyber Security completely paid for by the Army tuition assistance. I will be debt free within two years, I just wish I would have started sooner. Maybe waited to go to school until after I joined but shoulda coulda woulda right?
I hope she ends up managing some high profile artists down the road or is an exec at a notable record label some time down the line.
Whenever people promote a number that will be achieved, divide it in half for reality. And whatever it costs for some number, double it.
surely those "loans" would be considered venture capital in the eyes of the law, considering the risky and exploratory nature of education, right? right??? and venture capital is for enterprises with a specific mission therefore it's only repayable with income generated from specific-degree-related activities. surely.
I’m in her boat but only $66k in loans.... I’m making in the range of what I would make in the paralegal field but I do plan to transition once they pay for my masters ,.. lol well 80% that is which is a steal
Nice of Dave to give this girl hope but she doesn’t not have a gift.
She’s been interviewing, working, and making connections, if she had a gift she’s be recognized for it career wise and financially.
Case study in why you shouldn’t follow your “passion”. How much opportunity must she have foregone by not broadening her search modestly? Glad Dave had her “pan back” and look at careers like financial planning or general management in a non-music field.
When I see some of the videos I feel better about my circumstances.. lol
I love papa Dave!
tntwinmill
She should live with parents.
Hard to believe that with a business degree and being in finance at a University she didn’t learn anything about over investing in a bad idea.
She clearly is not qualified to give any academic financial advice. Not sure how she landed that gig...
RUclips showed me an american express ad before this video. Found it comical.
....and I bet that Dave took the advertising money from that ad.
Okay, I don't know where to start. I owe around $191,000. Between my husband and I, we make about $170,000 a year. I still don't know how to tackle this debt.
$200,000 in debt isn’t much like locking you up in jail. I remember trying to pay my student loan with just 20k. It took me of 3 years with no life.
sad part is even if she makes double her income she will struggle for a long, long, time. long dark road ahead