Important to mention that the actual problem the sriking writers are talking about is not studios replacing them with AI, but rather studios using AI to generate random garbage and then make the writers "redact' it, thereby officially putting them at assistant positions, which are paid way worse. They still want to use humans, they're not stupid, they just want to pay them less.
@@withcindy watch a film on RUclips by acollieastro "AI does not exist but it's going to ring everything anyway" for a great, informative and succinct explanation of how AI works and why it's so horrible, the author is a scientist and can clearly and patiently "translate" the more esoteric aspects of AI, I learned a lot from her video
@@withcindy I was reading a Wired article that said some publishers are flat out REFUSING to put "anti-AI clauses" in their contracts. They want to do the same thing to prose writers that the studios want to do to screenwriters.
Despite the fact that meticulously editing large amounts of garbage text is often more labor intensive and difficult, minute to minute, than just writing something. A lot of the time when I’ve had to do similar things, it was easier to just scrap the poor writing and start over. If we let them get away with this for a while, I think in a few years “AI rewriter” would become a higher paid position than a regular writer if capitalism actually worked like it’s supposed to and people were compensated for their time and effort. But it rarely does, and we shouldn’t let them do that anyway.
@@tasan803 Problem is a lot of programs don't even understand what "ethics" is. I took an "ethics" course as part of my masters program, but it was literally just about data security. Just making sure the data you've collected isn't leaked. Not anything at all about whether it's ethical for us to even have the data in the first place.
First the artists getting their content stolen, the SAG strike and now this... we need strict laws regulating AI to protect artists/singers/authors etc.
The sad thing is that it requires the people to fight against Capitalism (Billionaires, Business Owners, CEO's, etc). Honestly I know this sounds extremely pessimistic but look at the laws we have now, I doubt that the proper laws will be put in place or they'll only make laws to protect the rich and powerful regarding AI. And if they do make the proper laws for the people will be far after its too late (i.e 2040s). It is scary to think but creators may have to start thinking about what to do if those with power don't do their jobs.
The lack of empathy for writers or artists among AI bros is legitimately mind-boggling. I just can’t imagine how people can look at someone’s creative works and see it as no more than fuel for their algorithms.
I think there is a large overlap with crypto bros who thinks speeding up climate change is the way of the future. Aka no empathy for anyone. Though a lot of techy people have a very different view on copyright and such, thinking everything should be in public domain and for the common good-- which is why there is a lot of open license programs and such. So for some it could be more a different perspective on things than a lack of empathy. There is also a bit of worry that restrictive laws regarding AI might actually hurt artists/writers in the long run and prevent the development of actually helpful programs. Obviously laws and regulations are needed, but it needs to be done properly. Or we risk fanfiction suddenly being illegal, or fair use laws being more restrictive, etc. I'm not defending what he did or what a lot of AI people do, especially not when they charge money for the service.
Tech bros are already loosing jobs at an alarming rate because AI can do their jobs better. Maybe when most of them are unemployed they'll develop empathy and understand why it is wrong to steal from creatives.
idk maybe unpopular opinion but I feel that eventually AI will lead us to embracing creative processes more. sure, AI can write a book, a song, replace the actor, paint a beautiful picture. but it's just a processed info, it has already been done. I think eventually we'll turn from majority-appealing art to unique art, because if everyone can make something like this it's not interesting anymore. so generic popular artists rn who do something ordinary and uncreative but likeable by most people would lose their jobs, yeah. but society will have more appreciation for people who actually put their talent into creative process. we'll stop aiming for perfection which is sure accessible only with AI and turn to uniqueness. rn a lot of indie artists are not getting paid and appreciated enough because there's always this generic people pleasing art which can get companies more money that something not-so-perfect. but now everyone can make this generic art with AI. we don't need to pay for it. 'sellable' art is not so sellable anymore. after sucking out their cannibalistic tendencies trying to get all profit from AI and not by paying actual people for their work companies would see that, wow, they need people. their AI generated generic stuff won't be popular and likeable for long. why pay for something you can do for free with all this AI engines? I think that talented people won't be hidden in the shade of people pleasing art for long now, because there's no need in people pleasing art anymore. I'll generate it myself, I need something unique and new, something AI can't make.
@@secondaryemotion you make a valid and optimistic point, that I partially agree with. The issue in my opinion is people, not the AI itself. AI is not inherently harmful to human jobs and creativity, but the current capitalist climate definitely is. The way people are using these programs are a danger to creatives and their jobs. So I agree that eventually in the future AI will become a part of the process of creating and inspiring art, in fact it's already being used that way by many artists. It's just unfortunate that artists are going to be continuously undervalued by companies and consumers using AI.
@@butterontoast3657 true, capitalism as usual went to minimizing every expense possible with no respect for quality and humanity. it'll bite them back eventually
Remember when we all dreamed of AI replacing all these crappy office jobs and IT stuff so we could have more time for ART and expression? Pepperridge Farms remembers.
Knowing how many words a book should have is like one of the least important parts of writing. You look that up to figure out if what you’ve written actually counts as a book or if it’s just a short story.
I think it's good to get a sense of structure with word counts (should u expect the rising action or climax to appear at a certain percentage of the story), but even then those are rules u don't necessarily have to follow!
It does count for things like NaNo or if your editor says "cut this down to X words" but you're right that it is very secondary to a lot of the other parts of the craft.
@@KairiMorin People used to online stories are more familiar with wordcount length, VS page length. I will admit I'm the same at this point. I do still read books with actual pages, but it's easier for me to understand wordcounts. (it's also useful when you consider books have different font sizes in them)
I hate AI in art, because as you mentioned at the end there are so many fields where AI has genuine promise to help humanity. Like, I’ve seen doctors talk about how soon AI programs will be able to read scans and stuff more accurately than people which would help detect cancers sooner and save lives. That’s amazing, and yet the tech bros are focused on making a quick buck in creative industries instead of finding ways to use the technology to actually help people.
The scan reading shit is straight up bollocks as someone who works in a hospital. That dumb pos flags up every goddamn ankle as being broken whether it is or isnt, and the implications of clinicians acting on something an AI decides will need treatment rather than someone actually trained to do their job with clinical judgement and context is terrifying…
They can be very helpful in creative industries as well. For one, they're a wonderful accessibility tool, both in terms of disability and for people who simply don't have the time to aquire the technical skill needed to express their creativity. It lowers the barrier for entry which means so many more people can engage in it. It also allows artists (especially solo or indie artists) take on much bigger and more ambitious projects than what they would usually be able to do. Especially because there are now so many more tools to control the result than just a word prompt, which makes the process a lot more involved.
The only good examples of AI-aided art I’ve seen are when individual artists train an AI on their own works, then have the AI work as a tool to either help them figure out shapes to fill in details in certain areas, figure out colors, etc… AI should only be used as a tool when it comes to art, in my opinion.
It makes me so mad that people ruin everything. Like, some people are scared of the AI itself, but even in fiction it's always originally been the humans' fault. See: Horizon Zero Dawn, Terminator. In God's year 2023 we have no Skynet, but we have shitty people giving creative work to a hecking algorithm (because technically, lbr, true AI doesn't even exist yet).
@@lilowhitney8614 AI art as you describe is plagiarism and not art. AI programs are more expensive than using a pen and paper to learn, and to insinuate its disability friendly is an insult to all the disabled artists out there making real art.
There’s a great episode about AI on the podcast Behind the Bastards. They predict that AI books will cause class division, with poor children reading low-quality AI books, and rich children reading high-quality, human-written books. Horrifying
Oh boy. It's kind of already happening in other ways, the richest parents can afford enriching preschools and educated nannies who know how to make sure a child hits all the milestones. Poorer parents come home from their third job and hope that auntie Liz only let the kids watch those horrible spiderman/pregnant elsa in a shopping cart youtube videos for an hour today.
That makes sense. Think about how certain writing like certain poetry was only accessible to wealthy people in history and obviously reading and intellectualising text and challenging your think brings about so many benefits with simple better understanding of self,others and probably other stuff that benefit capitalism which I couldn’t be bothered to look into
I think it's funny that you think rich people care that much about their kids' education. I don't know much about it but I think charter schools already disproved this one.
I remember this on Twitter, Authors and Fans were tearing that dude apart. This is why tech bros need to have ethics classes bc it doesn't take much to see how this is a fucked up thing to do. Benji knew he stole those books and didn't care about how not only is that violating to the authors but oh, I don't know, illegal???
Math and science require a vast amount of creativity. What they lack is empathy and understanding. Patterns are cool. Wanting to understand patterns and their interplay is awesome. Using that to ruin other creative fields for a quick buck is fucked up
this obsession with finding a mathematical solution to the perfect book formula... it's so arrogant, to not just take a writing class when you have this much free time. the only motivation is the thought that you already know better than what you could learn from other writers trying to teach.
Trying to find the mathematical cheat code to success and the highest amount of profit. The way they are so willing to forget what makes humanity worth existing so that they can be rich is disgusting! And they’re trying to get everybody else in the same mindset as them
Right!! It reeks of arrogance. “I’m above those commoners who learned to write by actually taking time to improve their craft by practicing writing, attending classes, and reading books.” Is what I heard. Not that little “I wanted to write a memoir and didn’t know where to start” BS.
I get big "why are you booing my genius?" vibes from this guy. "I didn't mean to hurt anyone." Okay, but you did, so fix it. This is theft, and even if he's removing the books from his site, the AI engine has already been trained on the data. When are courts going to start caring about this issue? We need laws in place to protect people. We have some of the strictest copywrite laws in the world because Disney didn't want to give up their rights to property. You're telling me NO copywrite laws are being violated with use of AI? Everything about the capitalization of AI in creative fields is ridiculous. It should be illegal.
Thankfully there are some court cases dealing with AI issues right now, and it seems like they’re going to fall in favour of creators, but we’ll see. And I agree, his response reeked of “can’t you understand my side, I’m not a villain in your story.” Yes my dude, you’re one of the worst.
"You're telling me NO copywrite laws are being violated with use of AI" Correct! The court cases Rikrobat is mentioning have next to no chance of going in the way of creators because training an AI on copyrighted data is clearly and obviously fair use. It's one of the single most transformative things you can do! You're taking groups of narratives or other data points and from these narratives constructing a mathematical model that doesn't actually contain any of these data points. Like, you've gone from a data set to a mathematical model. These are fundamentally, qualitatively different things. Any ruling that this isn't transformative would be so overly broad as it would destroy _google search,_ as google search uses webcrawling to index sites. Now, there's a tiny bit of nuance here, in that outputs of these models could, potentially, be copyright infringing. So if you see "get me pictures of Spiderman", one model might give you pictures of a man amalgamated with a spider, but another might give you a picture of Spiderman. The second, potentially, might violate copyright. But it's not clear _who_ has violated copyright in this situation, legally speaking. It could be the entity who provided the training data to the company who made the model - not because copyrighted material was presented, but because we say it was presented in such a way that it was impossible for outputs to avoid infringing copyrights in some situations. It could be the entity that trained the model, because we say it was their duty to sanitize the data in the training such that this outcome didn't happen. Or we could place the legal liability on the end user to not generate infringing outcomes + to not publish them. But this hasn't been decided yet. And it's not clear at all what the correct choice should be. But the actual _training of the model on copyrighted information_ is clearly kosher, regardless of whether authors and artists like it.
The rampant commercialization of creative processes (like writing and art) is definitely contributing to AI. People don't want to be bad at these things, but they also don't want to put in the effort to get better, so AI is a simple 'solution'. Not to mention how it just basically steals from the input from real artists and writers who put years of effort into their craft. Creativity is something that has been turned into nothing more than another commodity.
@@withcindyI agree. Writing and art is something at companies have been looking to have factory produced for years, and now with AI, it's finally something that looks like it could work. But art and novels are so special, because they're handcrafted.
Yeah, I don't think it has much to do with any real artists. The people who "don't want to be bad at [art]." As you say. It's exploitation. I think the real problem is in a capitalist system art was always nothing more than a commodity. That was easy enough to ignore because we told ourselves the art that survived did so because it defined our culture, and not that our culture was being defined by "commodities brokers" who flood the market with branded "content" to ensure its survival with omnipresence, until the critical thinking of the entire culture is irreparably damaged. Now that we're faced with the the threat of the "formula for success" being a literal formula that may actually succeed due solely to ubiquity and the passive surrender of the lowest common denominator, the fear I think, above all else is it will prove once and for all that we never really had a culture to begin with.
@@futurestoryteller I think it's not quite as bleak as all that. Look at other "artistic" areas that have been automated, woodworking or textiles. Yeah, there's a ton of mass produced furniture and clothing where there wasn't prior. But you still _have_ artisans who produce bespoke pieces as needed. It's just a much smaller community. I think in the same way things like the production of art _as decoration_ will probably be optimized, but for upper middle class / wealthy individuals who want real paintings to show off a more refined aesthetic sensibility, art _as experience_ you're still going to have artists around.
Why are so many “aspiring writers” so desperate to cut corners to learn how to write well? Just read, read the genres you want to write in and the genres outside of that, learn organically what works and what doesn’t, it’ll take longer but in the end you’ll have a higher quality and more authentic mental skill library to work off of.
@@withcindy but that would take effort and time! He wants to write his bestselling memoir now! (wanna bet that he never once did or experienced anything worthy of being in a memoir?)
Honestly, I think it's part of the whole 'get rich quick' mentality that's been pushed since the whole four hour workweek type books gained an audience among people who wanted to make money without the effort or developing an aesthetic
Not all of us can afford either the time or the expense of writing courses or extensive libraries. I've learned tons about the craft just from using grammar-checkers like Grammarly and ProWritingAid. Neither can write an original work from scratch.
reminds me of that discworld book where the bad guys Experienced Art for the first time and started tearing apart the paintings to try and find what component was making them feel things
This is just another way that the value of creatives is being underestimated. When authors have talked about the impact of book piracy for them, even with some of the deeper nuances around consumer access, there’s always one person on every post who comes off entitled and asks why the authors expect to be paid for their work. When the WGA and then SAG went on strike, everyone used the 1% of millionaire actors and writers as reasons not to care, as if they represent the majority, when they don’t. And AI just further proves this point: it’s like they don’t want real artists to get paid, because they’re jealous of them for their skill, and want to steal from them using flimsy justifications.
I genuinely can't believe shit like this is actually happening, and the worst thing, aside from the theft, is that- it won't even create the 'ideal' book if it averages statistics. It just creates the most generic writing to ever be made.
I think the idea is that everyone is a basic bitch someway. So if you like sad, surreal crap with light humor, they'll plug that into the algorithm and get you your favorite flavor.
I'm only partway through the video, but it's so... baffling... to me. This whole endeavor seems like cowardice. Like he's so fixated on finding the mathematical "proof" that makes a book good, because if he has to find it out by actually trying it, he'll have to face his own unpolished skills and limited ability, just like every other artist does when they first start out. Also, I agree that there's potentially something interesting about quantifying and analyzing the language and writing from books and what is considered "good" prose, but the way that his product is focused on the sentence structure and syntax first, and not the content or themes or emotions, is also cowardice. Like, he wants to be Absolutely Sure he can write The Bestest Ever before he injects any of his own personal experiences or potential vulnerabilities into it
This is an excellent take. Having good data is generally important, but data itself won't write a compelling story. He' trying to create a "write by numbers" guide. The man can't compete with the authors he admires so he has to mine from them instead. I'd be sad for him if this issue wasn't so infuriating.
Yeah, there was a program that I had to learn to use (and then never used afterwards because I went into another direction) when I studied linguistics and literature. You had to put in a text document, and then the program showed which words were used, and how often, etc. So we had to put in a tarzan book published in 1917 or so, and one of the questions was why the word German appeared so often. Gee I wonder if it has anything to do with that war that's going on. Things like that. The program couldn't really do analysis, just provide data on texts. It is very useful in linguistics if you want to analyse a transcription of a conversation for example. So he basically made a program that already existed and stole data from copyrighted texts to do it, instead of just using the already existing program, or I dunno, writing his book.
everyone who writes knows that the ratio of passive:active voice or like words per page or other stats don't matter. what matters is how crazy insane you are about your ideas. sometimes i black out for a day and when i wake up 16 pages of text have manifested on my doc. techbros could never understand.
This is literally me. I have 27 drafts with pages of info, descriptions, and world building and Lore for stories but writers block has made me struggle for ages to actually complete more than 10 chapters for any of them
The worst use of AI I've heard of is studios forcing background actors to have full body scans and offering no compensation for using their likeness in future projects. I saw some lawyer online suggesting key words for non-legal people without support to ctrl+f (or search for) in contracts, but that ignores that background actors don't get contracts in advance, they're probably exhausted and hungry, they've got production assistants yelling at them to hurry up signing, and if they object they'll get no work and can't pay rent.
It's also the fact that people are now so suspicious of everything and wonder if it's human or not - and that's going to become a problem. Trust on the internet is already so flimsy. I recently had my artwork flagged as AI art and taken down off a site that is AI free. Even on instagram now I can't upload without someone on every post claiming it's AI- which I then have to link to my RUclips to "prove" I painted it. Honestly considering just getting off the internet and switching to traditional art. But I'm sure it's the same in the writing world where new authors are going to have a hard time in the future proving it. Maybe making software to detect it? Which I realize is ironic but...
it's actually crazy how creatives usually have an inferiority complex meanwhile ai prompt typers will write 5 words along the lines of "cool fantasy setting epic story" and feel like they're sooo talented and act like they did all the work i'm begging for laws to limit this kind of garbage, please 😭
@@Jerri.Blank.9674 Yes and no. The resulting text is really just a lot of different stolen text mixed and matched. Computers can't think and don't have creativity, inherently anything created by these algorithms are the result of cold math.
They always talk about how the arts isn’t as important as other fields but if it isn’t as important why are they so INSISTENT on capitalizing off of it? Clearly all of these massively known companies and corporations see a big enough of profit potential to be bending over backwards and sideways like this
The guy who made the website HAD written a book, prior to creating the AI tool. He also had worked through PTSD from surviving a shipwreck. I don't think it's ok to shame people's mental health because you have a problem with them. You can just say what he did was wrong.
@@hey_niki_I didn't know the tech bro's background but that still doesn't excuse his shitty behaviour. Having a traumatic experience doesn't mean he should be ok with stealing other's art. If he "worked through" his PTSD with a mental health professional, then he should be able to do some self-introspection, but he showed in his response to the controversy that he's just an entitled asshat.
@@hey_niki_ So instead of hiring a ghost writer (or learning how to write) like a normal person, he decides he needed to steal in order to write the most average book ever. Does this man understand what a story even is?
Yeah... uh... all that he wrote was just narcissistic spew. If he really cared about the damage he'd caused, he'd have simply apologized and then detailed what he'd do to mitigate the problem.
@@nyxsangel I implied that his behavior was narcissistic, and it is. While it's important not to demonize people with mental disorders, it's also not wise to ignore the symptoms when we see them. And, just to be clear, I neither like nor dislike the man. I've never met him.
Did he look at the average number of words in other pointless so-called "apologies" on the internet to figure out how to craft his own non-apology? Cuz that was a lot of words saying nothing
AI is not only terrifying, but it is becoming a real problem everywhere. I am currently working as a TA to get through grad school, and the teachers are now forced to check every single student's writing for plagiarism because there's now an AI system that you can input sources from wherever and it'll rewrite it "in your words" without properly crediting anything. I had to flag three students for plagiarizing this week. And while it's still incredibly crude now because it doesn't write with correct grammer/sentence structure/etc, I have a really bad feeling it'll get more sophisticated in the future. I literally don't understand why they want to go to all this trouble to fail or be expelled, WHEN YOU CAN JUST CITE THE FUCKING SOURCE. IT TAKES FIVE FUCKING MINUTES!!!!
My teacher friend has the same problem and she says it's always very obvious that it's run thu chatGPT. There might come a day where it'll be much harder to detect tho!
Meanwhile I feel guilty when I have to email my professor to make sure I’m citing my sources correctly (to avoid being accused of plagiarism) because I don’t want to be wasting his time. Like why are you even in university if you’re not willing to write the damn essays?!
@@withcindy On the other end of that issue, some "AI detectors" are false-flagging the simple use of spellcheck as "AI". Plagarism detectors often use metadata as part of their analysis.
To be fair academic writing, especially scientific writing, is incredibly pretentious. In many ways this kind of writing doesn't want your words or opinions. You are rewarded for how well you regurgitate other people's work without being obvious about it. It's not quit the same as creative writing.
"Why is it always a white man at the crime scene?" made me laugh so hard. I used to write fanfiction and the site I posted them to was scraped for AI purposes without anyone's permission, of course. It is really difficult to know that the hours I spent improving my skills is reduced to a few keywords that you can pop into an AI engine and there you go, a piece is born off of other writers' works. In this specific case, I think if my work was 1. scraped by AI then 2. ranked and judged by said AI I'd honestly lose my mind. At least judge me as a human lol
Another real problem is that the programmer didn't seem to understand what passive voice or vivid language means. "I don't know where Danny may be," is marked as passive and it just isn't a passive voice sentence. Beyond the ethical questions you raise another huge error is that he's built the program around at least one fundamental confusion: voice is not tense, but its being pawned off as data.
I started teaching this year. The first essay assignment I gave resulted in 5 AI-generated texts out of 25. They were SO damn obvious. All sounded similar with same-ish wording etc (clearly they used the same prompt - namely, the text assignment prompt), and they weren't even good or made much sense. Worst of all: this is an English as a foreign language class - meaning the students are approximately at an A2 level (13-year-olds). The words used were so fancy that I would be hard-pressed to come up with some of those expressions (not saying I'm any good at writing, but I do take pride in my degree). As much as I see potential in developing AI, the current unrestricted and unreflected usage of those programs is ridiculous.
My teacher friend said the same thing. So many of her students use chatGPT for their work and she says it's very obvious. I wonder how soon it will eventually not be obvious though
@@withcindy It think it very much depends on the prompt. At the moment, it's especially obvious in the advanced vocabulary (students are not smart with prompting) and since they have the same task, the results all sound similar; I think that is still unavoidable - same prompt = similar results. Some of the stories are also very illogical (that could is a bit "easier" to fix). However, AI is far away from understanding and faking emotion which will always be a telltale sign. Also, while AI is getting smarter, AI detectors are getting smarter as well (:
I remember my friend introduced me to this site that was basically a program crafting fictional scenarios in a sort of Choose Your Own Adventure style. It was fun to see all the different scenarios the program came up with. I think if you're using these kinds of programs for fun or small amounts of chaos, that's fine. The problem lies in those programs being used to artificially replicate voices of people without their consent, steal something that is rightfully their own(whether digitally or physically). TLDR: Use AI for harmless fun, not to rip off the hard work of actual people. It's not hard to be a decent human being. But here we are.
I have used that website before. If it's the one I'm thinking of. That website has actually given me ideas of my own honestly! So yeah I'd something inspires you to create something, then I don't think it's a bad thing. However, if you're going to use it to steal other people's work, just... no.
10:15 The cultural aspect of writing is so important. I remember the first time we've read a Japanese writer in high school, how different the voice was from our native and Western writers, and some kids were really uncomfortable with it. Like "I don't want to know what flowers were in bloom, I wanna know what the characters are doing!!1" and for me as someone who thinks mostly in ~vibes~ rather than images or words it was a weird sentiment. Same can even be said about popular Western writers, although the mood/voice is different, I'm always sus about people criticizing a book for "too many descriptions". Was it really too many or do you just have no patience for the writer kindly setting a scene for you and immersing you further?
I ended a long friendship when I realized he was an AI bro and defended people stealing art to feed into AI. He was very defensive, refused to listen to my worries as an author and an artist literally making pennies, and that is when I realized why he never published anything but talked about writing - he didn't have the talent and hoped AI would evolve enough to do it for him. I rather do the hard work to learn, than steal from anyone....which is an unfortunately hard path when a lot of people around me seem to glorify these generators and want to use them in my line of work.
@@withcindy Thank you for your kindness. (: I'll be ok, no, I'll be better than that without that friendship pulling me down. I can always make new friends who support my line of work.
One of the job's I've done over the years is permission seeking for textbooks. There is always a discussion of fair use versus "needs permission," and in cases where the publisher absolutely needed permission from the author of the other work, I'd have to try and track down who to contact for that permission. Sometimes it goes well, sometimes you can't make contact, and sometimes that work is too expensive to license, so the requesting author needs to make a call on what they don't want to part with and what they can adjust to cut down permissions costs. The only time it would be "the owner of the work can reach out" is if we tried every possible route of getting in contact with them and ran into dead ends, aka due diligence. But those cases were pretty rare, since publishers/authors usually choose to back down and replace the content instead. A big reason we hate authors using song lyrics in their books, especially in epilogues, is because they're stupidly expensive to license. LOL. But the poiint is, authors need to pay for the use of someone else's work when fair use does not apply. This sort of situation is infuriating, but particularly when the AI techbro has this stance of "what's the harm?"
Honestly, Benji's essay letter says he doesn't care wherher what he did was right or wrong. He's clearly waiting for the worm to turn so he can bring his idea about again.
I hate how common this is and how unsurprised I am at anything this man said or did. Literally just par for the course right now. And Cindy is right, somehow it really is always a white man at the crime scene
I'm a fan of the logic of using AI in the same way we use calculators. Like asking chatgtp for a list of norse inspired characters names or asking questions on like if there is existing mythology around jellyfish is one thing. I feel AI could be a useful tool to enhance and encourage writers to expand BUT ONLY WHEN USED ETHICALLY which is where the problem lies currently.
I'm reading through the tweets of his "I'm sorry I stole people's books" and I just... so many people are saying he shouldn't have caved. And I'm here like... am I taking crazy pills? Art is created for humans by humans, AI won't understand the complexity of human speech, words, how to convey descriptions. Like, novels by AI will just make no sense whatsoever. This is why I talk about how bad AI is. I'm a writer, and something I've taken years to craft can be stolen by some guy so he can write his memoir. I just...
"And I'm here like... am I taking crazy pills?" Yeah, you are. What he did is archetypal fair use, freshman level natural language processing stuff. Like, it's of limited utility. But this isn't something that anyone should have been upset about. If it's illegal or wrong, there's a whooooolllllleeeee bunch of academics who are doing things illegal and wrong.
So, I'm a massive data nerd, and I was practically bouncing with excitement to see that Grammarly did a breakdown of some random data points. This kind of program would 100% spark some morbid curiosity in me. How much active voice do I actually use???? But would it change how I write? Are you crazy? Grammarly, AI, Prosewriter3000 isn't telling me how to write! Most programs are passable at *best* when it comes to understanding sentence structure (and they especially struggles with fiction, go figure). I'm not using it to influence anything other than basic spell check or possible inspiration. Should it have scraped from writers without permission? It's not even a question. I'm sick of AI and scraping, man
Yup ur totally right! There's limitations for how much it can actually help ur writing, and at the very least should not steal from thousands of authors
@@withcindy I remember "Don't steal" being a basic rule for a few religions, including English class when I was, like, 5. Crazy how easily these tech-AI-bros seem to have forgotten one of the earliest rules I can think of
One thing I use chat gpt for is for emails. I write my text and tell it if they can make it sound a little bit more precise or professional. Sometimes is too professional, so i use that text to re-construct it again. As well as giving me ideas on what to put as the email situation that'll catch the senders eye. Because writing an e-mail geninuely stresses me out and since I tend to ramble a lot in text and over explain, I don't know how to write a message thats short, semi- professional and precise. As seen by this massive text I just wrote. 😅
I can't imagine stealing or fake writing a book. It has taken me years to finish and i have some level of adhd and other issues so nothing about writing is easy for me. Yet, I rather die than have someone say my book was written by AI. As hard as it is, there is nothing better than creating it all.
As a writer myself I am completely appalled to figure out that this is happening, it's truly horrific to know that something as important as writing is to me is being treated like this, like just something somebody can write over night without putting any passion into it. I can't count how many countless nights and days I've put my blood sweat and tears into my writing, and to know that there's some people out there who don't do that really makes me worried for the future of writing.
Yep, Cindy, as I shared with you when you first started your channel, this is the kind of thing I've been working to combat with the platform I've been developing for the past 2 decades. We'll even have a publishing arm that will only allow non-AI works to be published. Yeah, it's been a lot of work, but *somebody's* gotta do it.......
@@withcindy Thanx for always cheering me on, my Smurfette! It's good people like you who've given me fuel to power through during the worst of this development 😘
I sent this video to my dad who self preclaimes himself as someone with no creativity and is a writer himself who uses AI...he refused to watch this video
I feel like someone who uses AI to write can’t really call themselves a writer. I’m not trying to be gatekeepy, but if you just tell a computer program to write for you, you didn’t actually do that writing; the computer did.
Honestly I like AI to proofread proffesional emails etc on my third language when Im not sure how to put it in corporatese. But obviously nothing creative or world changing lol. This is just theft, and also, a business debacle cuz as far as I know, in my country, AI creations cant be copyrighted, so nobody is getting paid, not even the devs lol
@tsifirakiehl4250 i wanna bring this in the discourse: what about using Ai but for helping writerblock n getting the ideas out but after planning, they rewrite it in _their_ words and _maybe_ even keep some, make changes and edit? Is that also bad? Or should Ai **be shut out completely, no matter what?
Passive voice and vivid writing are like line work, product of choice and style. I use a lot of passive voice to write (and narrate) youtube shorts, but not for comics or novels. It’s sad that writers now go through what us, visual artists, have been battling for a while. I teach character design, and some of my students were frustrated by putting in the work while others were using AI to create their comics. That went on until both Tapas and Webtoons changed their policies regarding AI, no longer allowing it. I’m pro tech, but only if it’s not exploiting other people’s work without consent and for quick profit. Why not a platform where artists can upload their work (if they wish to) to train an AI while being compensated for it? Is it such a naive vision to include creators themselves in the process to create something everyone can benefit from?!
peak STEM brain right there. You're so right about why colleges force us to take liberal arts classes, they're trying so hard to make us smart, yet our brains are polished smooth T_T
It's also why regressive politicians are fighting so hard to tear down the liberal arts as "woke". STEM brains are useful to the capital class, but lack the "soul" to resist/question authority.
He’s like a robot who wants to learn about feelings so he needs data to tell him how to feel… that’s so sad. He wants to be like one of us lol poor thing
Tbh I get how daunting it can be for ppl to approach writing and see how data might be a useful tactic! The big screw up here is that he very likely pirated books without authors permission
"I didn't know how many words I should write. I heard that 'real books' should be about 100,000 words." 1. Based on multiple sources, the average word count for books is between 70k-80k, butt an be as low as 50-60k. 2. The number of words you should write is the number your story needs to be written. If the final count is 64,370, then you needed to write 64,370. If it ends up being 101,005, then that's how much you should write.
Atleast some places in the world have a union-led system that talk about AI with a great deal of scepticism. Meanwhile, in India, tech bros tell you to stop worrying about interns and use AI instead so how is someone going to have an entry level job? P.S. We haven’t begun to scratch the surface about AI globally. Also, copyright laws are not equally important in some countries.
Not ai related but I remember that one tweet from a luxembourg artist who had her photo copied in another person's painting but the copyright office told her they could do nothing about it 😢
honestly we should just classify ai bros as sociopaths and narcissists. when all they do is spew the same, cold "adapt or die" rhetoric at people who are justifiably upset that their work is being stolen from them, when they trivialise the very real concerns that artists and creatives have that their passion could be dying out forever by dismissing their work as no better than an algorithm, when they grandiosely claim that ai can solve every single issue in the world without regulation or oversight, and when they harshly dismiss any kind of criticism as luddite trash, red flags should be popping up for a lot of people. I've seen artists be called specialised slurs by ai bros. I've heard about artists friends who were straight up told by ai bros that society would be happy to let them die in the ai revolution. I've expressed that, as a creative, ai was making me feel genuinely s*icidal and my response from an ai bro was that he would gladly let me kill myself if he was given the chance. Btw this was right before he straight up copied art posted in a discord channel without asking permission and gloated about it to the artist's face. ai bros are scum.
I feel like you can tell a lot about a person’s taste level based on how they approach the topic of using AI to create “content” like this. 😒 If they’re fine putting out meaningless garbage, then what are they reading for fun on their own time? Do they even read for fun, or is this just a cash grab?
I am all for AI being used as a helping hand to authors (Grammer and such) but using other people's books without permission to make an Ai that basically just uses Authors' works as data which to me feels inhumane if they weren't asked for proper permission.
All these tech bros getting into trying to “Silicon Valley” therapy, art, and writing… they see something they can’t do and instead of trying to do it themselves, or celebrating that different people in this world have different skills, they try to create a computer program to do it for them
This sounds to me like a perfect place for a breach of copyright lawsuit, perhaps even with some jail time. On top of that, someone needs to close some fire-doors to keep this from happening in the future.
This is a reminder to all of my authors out there to STOP USING GOOGLE DOCS for your manuscripts! Google Docs’ TOS implies that they can use your work to train their AI, just like this AI! Switch to Word or something else instead. Protect your art. EDIT: my wording was wrong-Google does not explicitly state this. It’s just a very strong possibility due to the wording of their TOS. Check the responses to this comment for more info!
adding to the people requesting a source! Docs is the only Google tool I still use bc of...laziness to transfer everything honestly, but if this is true...
This is insane to think about. Writing is not an equation to be solved, it doesn’t matter if you use adverbs or passive voice etc etc because the point of writing is as an expression of creativity. Even those rules about “don’t do this, don’t do that” that we learn in writing classes are more like guidelines that are meant to be broken. You can’t “solve” writing.
Prosecraft is New news to me so I love this discussion. I have heard the concerns about training AI but I didn't realise the piracy element! And including works that are in progress, wow?! Also love the point you made about art doesn't follow all the conventions that are outlined in the analysis of the different texts. I just used prowriting aid to analyse my work and while I found a lot of the analysis helpful there were some elements that I thought I could ignore because it would change the style of what I'd written. Until this year, I was more familiar with AI being used by publishers for market insights and audience engagement and even in editing. Now I've also come across different podcasts discussing collaborative writing and one podcast mentioned a book I've not read yet but is listed on Goodreads as: Death of an Author: A Novella written by Aidan Marchine, Stephen Marche, ChatGPT, Sudowrite, Cohere
I genuinely do believe if people dont just Stop, ai writing/art will get “good enough” eventually and thats the worst part of all of this. Writing has always been an agonizingly slow process for me and i sympathize so badly with people like me not wanting it to be that way - like im not talking laziness, my writing process is something i have been fighting with for literally as long as i can remember being asked to write things. literally every single person i know who is also not a writer can write far faster than me and generally pretty well too. But… like where does ai come in as a real solution to my problem??? It doesnt help me actually write about what i want to write about lmao.
Machine Learning can definitely be a useful tool in art when done ethically but the problem is that to do it ethically requires a lot of careful investment and companies have no interest in doing that by and large. Spider-Man Across the Spider-verse used machine learning to aid in some of the animation but it was trained on the work the studio itself produced. And it still needed to be tweaked by hand, it just reduced that grunt work Cindy alluded to. There is so much public domain artwork out there to use for machine learning and it definitely can be useful. It both does and does not baffle me that one of the easiest ways to address a massive criticism to machine learning is being ignored.
I’m originally from art field and it makes me so desperate when my favourite artists take a bleak to rethink what they can do for living, because AI has copied their style too much or stole their art like full gallery. Because I can see already that some people choose to subscribe to AI generator to make art they want, not buying art commissions from actual artists. And the companies may do the same. What the point to hire an actual artist and wait a lot of time, if AI can produce a new book cover like in a seconds? I just hope that people can accept the fact that it’s not ok and purposefully choose human works, not ai generations One of my «friend» is so excited about AI that he wrote me a message “Are you looking for a new job already? Because in a few months AI will steal your work and your job.” /sarcastic/ 😢
My thing is...this service definitely already exists 💁🏾♀️ Autocrit's been in my inbox for years now since the first step to writing a book for me actually was to figure out how many words it should be. My guy's so unoriginal, even his career-ending idea is copyrighted.
Honestly, looking at the state of our world; manufactured, low quality food, influx of fast/cheap fashion (shein, temu, ali, etc.) and now AI attempting to take over the arts - it's disappointing to see how consumerism and capitalism are interfering with the fundamentals of our world. Food and clothes are quite literally a necessity, and yet we're flooded with low quality, toxic alternatives (I read an article a while back about potentially high lead quantities in fast fashion?!), not to mention the human beings being exploited for these to produced in such high quotas. It's disappointing to see how human beings are second to profit margins and consumerism, and it's also disappointing to see that more people don't care. I don't understand why it takes a viral post (the goodreads/amazon author issue), or a favourite show being postponed/cancelled for people to recognise that real people are being affected in the process - re. SAG AFTRA, AI copies in art. I wish more people cared, but alas, Chat GPT can write a subpar essay in seconds, so why should we care about the people said essay is being stolen from?
With that being said, I want to know your stance on using AI to assist with your own creative process? I have an artist friend who uses pinterest / instagram for inspiration of her own, and she often finds (and is sometimes inspired by) what she later finds to be AI art. In the same vein, I know I have messed around with a 'creative writing inspiration' bot on character-ai for a piece of my own that I was writing, where I'd put samples from my own writing for reviews and feedback (with suggested improvements). I did do it the once and then felt exceedingly guilty about it, but in line with the fact that these cannot function/exist without human-made works in the first place, is there a consensus on the ethics behind using AI to inspire your on work?
@@yeehawtexasfanpageinspiration is not stealing. Unless you’re just writing what the AI pukes put in your own words, its totally valid to take some of its ideas and work it into what you have, its only what people do with human works anyway. People use prompts all the time! The difference is did you write it/draw it/whatever or did the AI and you changed the grammar or painted on an extra finger, or did you sit writing and painting for hours, days, weeks etc?
Thank you so much for talking about this! I recently attended a design conference, and among the topics of discussion was the use of AI in design. I found it scary how so many people, even some designers themselves, were quick to brush off concerns about plagiarism and consent when it came to the processing of creative intellectual property. It's really affirming to hear you speak up about the ethical issues like this and get at the heart of why this isn't just a simple case of machines replacing menial labor and has a lot more to do with our humanity and creativity (which is why the arts is considered part of the "humanities"!) I 100% agree that we would all benefit if people from every field took up liberal arts and humanities.
Yeah AI is hailed as the next great thing in the design world. I think it can be good to have them for improving processes (like removing backgrounds instead of using content aware tool on Photoshop) but using other people's work or cheapening the designs is where things get murky
21:38 Doing data entry may be boring, but AI isn't going to free up time for data entry workers so they can work on other things... it eliminates them altogether. I'm in the process above data entry, which is intake sorting, and AI has almost completely taken over the data entry aspect. Data entry was seen as very valuable, even if boring, because of how transferable it is. It's an entry level job, it's not physically demanding or taxing, and allows you entry to other job sectors which can allow you to climb the career ladder. But that's going away. Since it's not physically demanding, it's a good job for teens, disabled, and elderly. That can raise red flags, but honestly reality is more nuanced. I've talked to many who has joined at some point, before it was gutted, and many just wanted to be out of the house and do *something* that wasn't absolutely crushing, like retail. The company AI is about 80% right, and my department has to correct the 20% it gets wrong, and our time in intake is seen as extremely valuable except now we have to sink more time in processing errors that should never should happen or should have been caught before it gets to us. Humans are tasked to be 98% correct, but the AI doesn't go by the same rules as us. From the last I heard, the few remaining workers in data entry at my workplace are going to be transferred to new positions or let go (company hasn't decided yet), and it's going to be %100 AI with a couple of review keyers. The problem is viewing AI as a silver bullet, as if it'll lessen the workload, when in reality, the workload will increase to accommodate. If artists chose to use AI, it doesn't mean they'll have more free time, it means the demand will increase for the same pay, therefore your output must also increase. Partial automation in my workflow does not mean I have more free time, it means my workplace will accommodate and increase how many docs per hour I need to do for no extra pay. And for others, it'll eliminate jobs. No workload = no job. And the AI will not supplement as many jobs as it displaces. Techbros are some of the worst at understanding real world problems and logistics. Truly.
They always say "I used publicly available data!" like they don't understand what a license agreement is. Even if authors put their whole book online for free that doesn't mean you're allowed to use it however you want. There is not a good legal precedent for AI training data yet, and when you don't know whether or not something is legal to use how you want, the answer is don't use it until you know for sure it's okay. So his claim of "I looked at copyright laws to see if it was okay" just proves he didn't try very hard, and had a hunch what he was doing wasn't okay. ALSO when they say it's "too hard to track where all the training data comes from", it's a lie. Web scrapers literally must know each web address they scrape, and it can very easily be logged, and very easily be tied to the data that is downloaded. AI startup devs don't bother keeping that record because they don't want to. Because it can only look bad for them since they would have to review it by hand to determine legality case-by-case before they could use the data, or they'd be sitting on a big pile of evidence of their infringement. So they try to play dumb and lie to you more by blaming the "scraper" that they wrote themselves for doing the stealing. Scum.
I lost soooo much work…. I’m a ghost writer… and let me tell ya….. my career… if I can call it that…. Is down the shitter since a few years before AI became public use. I have a strong feeling they have been using AI to write shows and books since 2017… But now all I get work for is people wanting me to edit their AI generated book crap and they also want me to make it make sense………. So I’m hoping that the money I saved up over the years can keep me afloat until I finish my series… (it’s a lllooonnnnggggg fuckin story. Lol) But I also hope to write an erotica for this channel to review… I don’t know if I want to make it silly and stupid or make it actually good. 🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏 Also thank you for speaking up about this… it does mean a lot. To me at least I can only speak for myself. 🥰🥰🥰
@@withcindy struggling only makes me stronger! 🥰🥰🔥 Besides…. AI can’t create the ideas in my head like I can and it can’t even comprehend the complexity of story telling. I am a story teller, AI is a giant algorithm. And I know how we can mess up the algorithm for that program… if we all type into it the same thing… like the guys name with a giant 🍆 as his head… we can mess up his beloved program. Lmao. You get the program to do the same thing over and over again… they get stuck on that. It’s gonna be a struggle… and it’s gonna get rough… but even with the stuff I put up with….. what doesn’t kill me better start fuckin runnin! Lol I really appreciate your videos and you being active with your community. And even you speaking up and bringing this topic to your viewers is….. I know I really really appreciate it. Please do another stilly 🍆 book rant please! They make me roll on the floor laughing.
As a visual artist its so disheatening seeing many companies, book covers, movie posters, etc use AI. Spending more than 10+ years developing and fine tuning a visual skill only for them to use a badly made, cheap, soulless version.
CS PhD student here, I may not work directly with the AI but many people in my lab do. Large language models have completely changed the game. Writing stories is not even a research question anymore. There was a recent study that came out that said that it is impossible to tell if text is written by AI (if it is trained a specific way). Very soon, it may not even be possible to tell if some text was written by AI at all. So to answer your question, it is very possible for AI to improve beyond detection and for the quality to massively improve as well. In my option AI needs to be regulated much more than it currently is. Personally, I think creators of art used to train a model should receive royalties for content created using it but again it may be impossible to tell.
I’m waiting for autogenerated captions to go up, so I can comprehend this video a little better. But because I love your channel so much Cindy, I’ll watch it twice!
Even though AI stuff should only used as an outlining tool and writing it out yourself later. It STILL doesn't change the fact that he is NOT an author. He’s doing computer science and human behavior. It's like bringing an RV to a summer camping park. It's not camping, it's parking.
I can't remember who said it but it was an artist from the studio, Cartoon Saloon, who said the quiet part loud. These kinds of people who use AI to steal and copy art and writing, are failed artists/writers who only want the finished the result and praise without actually putting in any thought or effort. It's very much a more advanced version of art thieves on DeviantArt.
Creative work has literally never been easier to jump into if you truly have the passion for it. There's so many resources to get started in writing, drawing, painting etc. and it's disappointing that people see AI as a replacement to creativity, not as an enhancement.
I like to use AI to generate fanfiction sometimes, just to see how badly it butchers the characters because I think it's funny. I can clearly tell both from writing my own and reading that written by others that it's an incredibly low quality product compared to something written by a human being. For one thing, ChatGPT seems obsessed with shoehorning in happy endings to prompts that shouldn't have them. I literally had it generate me a story about the Zodiac killer that ended with the Zodiac realizing he was a horrible person through his friendship with a random person, so he renounced his ways, became a nice guy, and was forgiven and loved by everyone. The freaking Zodiac killer... It's literally like a fanfic written by a preteen that isn't good at characterization, but at least those preteens can somewhat grasp what those characters are supposed to be, AI does not and thinks everything needs to be happy with everyone learning a lesson about true friendship in the end. If that is the future of writing, then I really don't want to read anymore, because it's funny at first but gets annoying fast.
Yep, those AI harry potter stories are hilarious because they make no sense whatsoever, at some point the characters always cannibalise each other and it genuinely has no semblance of a story whatsoever. Its so bad its laughable, now. But the more these things are fed the better the things they puke back up, in theory
@@katierasburn9571 In theory, yeah, but in practice, a machine would never be able to reproduce anything created by a human because it reduces everything to math without actually understanding why that formula is successful in the first place. I compare it to all the numerous gory fighting games that came out after Mortal Kombat first hit arcades. Almost all of them were instantly forgotten because they were made by people who don't know how to make a fighting game and thought all you need to make it successful was make it violent and gory.
Hi. I'm an author who had his debut book picked up about a year ago and I've been going through the editing and cover and others tuff phase for a while now. I remeber the work I had to pour into it. Staying up till 4 sometimes working on the same chapter over and over trying to be satisfied with it. Will it be the best in the world, no, it my debut after all amd i still have a lot to learn. But I'm proud of it amd the work I put into it. Amd that's why I love books even more now then ever cause I personally know the agony that is writing one and the joy that is seeing it come to life. Then this asshole comes along, steals work amd puts out a bad AI while screaming look how smart I am. It makes me mad, both for myself and for everyone out there who writes or wants to write. It makes me mad cause it's a spit in the face to the imaginations and hard work of authors and fans everywhere. Real passion and love for a craft will always be better then what a computer says is a mathematically perfect story and as far as I'm concerned the worst thing on fanfiction. Net is infinitely better then anything this guys ai can make cause I know one was made with fun amd passion while the other is some dudebro just clicking one button amd patting himself on the back. Ps. DONT STEAL BOOKS! Total duche move
Tech bros don't understand that art isn't formulaic, it's an authentic form of self-expression. If you want to learn how to be a better writer just become a bookworm and learn holistically, there's no need to reduce writing to the number of words or adverbs. Like you said, STEM people need to take liberal arts/ethics classes and understand that just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
Its really great seeing well established to smaller authors speaking out against it, taking action, and the developer taking it down. It really just highlights how huge the visual art community is and how entitled people (AI tech simps) feel to visuals in general. This isnt to downplay this situation, its genuinly inspiring, but only a closer knit community like the writing community could do this. Artists could never do this, there are too many bad faith actors with in the community and even other artists (writer, musicians, etc.) have been using AI images. So many can recognize the copywrite within text, yet theyre so entitled to visual art. Frustrating.
I don’t want to live in the world we’re building right now Like, so much of art already feels like it’s getting so… corporate. The stories that get popular and stay popular are the ones made by huge, rich companies that are scared of doing things unique and new because they want to get money as safely and easily as possible. But even those stories manage to have so much life behind them, even if they’re restrained a little by the need to make a profit. You know why? Because in the end, the art isn’t made by the corporations, it’s made by HUMANS. No matter how big and profitable a story is, no matter how huge the company behind it, there’s some writer, some artist, who genuinely loves what they’re creating and pours their soul into it. If AI keeps improving, that’ll be the cheapest, easiest, safest ways for these big corporations to make stories that make money. And they won’t care about the quality. Hell, the consumers won’t care that much about quality either. How often do we really spend time critically analyzing the stories we consume unless it’s a story that is particularly special to us? So many of us are all just exhausted and losing hope and doing our best, and we just want to turn our brain off and enjoy a story sometimes. At least right now, every story we reach for will still have a human behind it, still have a soul behind it, and maybe we’ll find that one special story that lights up our heart again. Imagine if even that possibility is taken away. If all the content we consume is just a mess of stolen stories tossed into a blender, churned out into a meaningless slop of indistinguishable fragments with nothing at all behind it expect for a company’s desire for money. What a sad, grey, empty world that’ll be. Art will always exist. Humans will never stop being creative. The point of art has never been the end product. People learn how to be creative because it’s an innate part of our souls to WANT to create, to express ourselves! So I’m not scared about art disappearing for good. I’m just scared that, when art becomes an easily accessible, meaningless AI slop, we’ll take art for granted, and the world will have a harder time remembering what the point of art even was in the first place.
I think AI is a scary threat to most jobs... I am an English teacher and can imagine in a few years kids sitting in front of a screen learning from an AI teacher in preference to a real flesh and blood one... I don't think there will be many jobs, which are immune...I have a friend retraining to be a librarian as her job as a copywriter was taken over by AI.
I always wonder why techbros keep trying to innovate in creative spaces. I feel like they could do more focusing on sciences and maths. Why are they so obsessed with creatives? Lol anyway. Loved your insight on this! Would also love to hear your two cents on the author of Manic Pixie Egirl if you feel up to it!
Because they so desperately want to be thought of as creative. Although that may just be kicking the can down the road, because I can't tell you *why* that's so important to them.
because they're not smart enough to master science and math, yet don’t possess the empathy to understand the value of art, so art is 'much easier' to them as long as they have the 'right tools'
i really wish there was a way to create some type of digital name tag that links creative content to the creators, so that when it is copied it can easily be retrieved and/or taken down, because the lengths people are going to just to plagiarise other people’s hard work is crazzyy. also, cindy, i just realised you and i have the same glasses and haircut 😂
I can understand why people want to use AI to generate visual art (as long as they use public domain pictures), because it's faster and can be randomly generated for artists to use as ideas and references. Besides, people usually look at pretty pictures for several seconds before moving on and forget about it, but for writing? Literature is so nuance and complicated (at least for me). One word can change the whole meaning of a line. The way you write a paragraph can affect the mood of that scene. Dialouges are complex and need to be distinguisable since you can't tell who is who based on just on what they say. Not to mention, how you sctructure your story and how well-developed your plot have signicficant impacts.
Im so tired of techbros, I saw this go down on twitter, and everyone sh*tting on him and it was great. Thought I did unfortunately see people defend him and talk about how entitled writers are or like "gatekeeping" and stuff 💀. Im glad you made a video about this
As a nonwhite man, I’m offended that Cindy keeps pointing out that the bad actors are white men when we all know it is the fact that they are men, regardless of race, that is driving the bad behavior. Tsk Tsk Cindy 😂
Not exactly. *white* men specifically often believe they are above not just institutional rules or social rules, but actual laws. That magnitude of arrogance does not really happen with men from other demographics. Unfortunately, the legal system does actually tend to treat them with kid gloves: although believing yourself completely above the law is in fact still stupid, even if you're a white cishet man.
as someone in university for computer science and a hobbyist artist the lack of respect for creatives the current ai space has is so disheartening. the creative process isn’t a problem to be fixed
Important to mention that the actual problem the sriking writers are talking about is not studios replacing them with AI, but rather studios using AI to generate random garbage and then make the writers "redact' it, thereby officially putting them at assistant positions, which are paid way worse. They still want to use humans, they're not stupid, they just want to pay them less.
Ugh it's horrible! Thanks for bringing that up!
@@withcindy watch a film on RUclips by acollieastro "AI does not exist but it's going to ring everything anyway" for a great, informative and succinct explanation of how AI works and why it's so horrible, the author is a scientist and can clearly and patiently "translate" the more esoteric aspects of AI, I learned a lot from her video
@@withcindy I was reading a Wired article that said some publishers are flat out REFUSING to put "anti-AI clauses" in their contracts. They want to do the same thing to prose writers that the studios want to do to screenwriters.
Despite the fact that meticulously editing large amounts of garbage text is often more labor intensive and difficult, minute to minute, than just writing something. A lot of the time when I’ve had to do similar things, it was easier to just scrap the poor writing and start over.
If we let them get away with this for a while, I think in a few years “AI rewriter” would become a higher paid position than a regular writer if capitalism actually worked like it’s supposed to and people were compensated for their time and effort. But it rarely does, and we shouldn’t let them do that anyway.
They basically want script doctors.
"And this is why STEM degrees are required to take humanities classes." Love it
It's necessary!
They should take a 1 year-long ethics class
@@tasan803 Problem is a lot of programs don't even understand what "ethics" is. I took an "ethics" course as part of my masters program, but it was literally just about data security. Just making sure the data you've collected isn't leaked. Not anything at all about whether it's ethical for us to even have the data in the first place.
I'm in an engineering school, and omg we have so many hours of mandatory humanities class
@@amassoffoolsandknaves7539 Good! Glad to hear it! Because that is not the case everywhere.
First the artists getting their content stolen, the SAG strike and now this... we need strict laws regulating AI to protect artists/singers/authors etc.
Agreed!
The sad thing is that it requires the people to fight against Capitalism (Billionaires, Business Owners, CEO's, etc). Honestly I know this sounds extremely pessimistic but look at the laws we have now, I doubt that the proper laws will be put in place or they'll only make laws to protect the rich and powerful regarding AI. And if they do make the proper laws for the people will be far after its too late (i.e 2040s).
It is scary to think but creators may have to start thinking about what to do if those with power don't do their jobs.
@@KIDPLZZ yes bro, we will totally own the capitalists and the CEOs by... strengthening copyright law? Who is Disney btw
Yes
I think they’re starting to pass legislation regarding the copyright of ai-made art for commercial use
The lack of empathy for writers or artists among AI bros is legitimately mind-boggling. I just can’t imagine how people can look at someone’s creative works and see it as no more than fuel for their algorithms.
I think there is a large overlap with crypto bros who thinks speeding up climate change is the way of the future. Aka no empathy for anyone.
Though a lot of techy people have a very different view on copyright and such, thinking everything should be in public domain and for the common good-- which is why there is a lot of open license programs and such. So for some it could be more a different perspective on things than a lack of empathy.
There is also a bit of worry that restrictive laws regarding AI might actually hurt artists/writers in the long run and prevent the development of actually helpful programs. Obviously laws and regulations are needed, but it needs to be done properly. Or we risk fanfiction suddenly being illegal, or fair use laws being more restrictive, etc.
I'm not defending what he did or what a lot of AI people do, especially not when they charge money for the service.
Tech bros are already loosing jobs at an alarming rate because AI can do their jobs better. Maybe when most of them are unemployed they'll develop empathy and understand why it is wrong to steal from creatives.
idk maybe unpopular opinion but I feel that eventually AI will lead us to embracing creative processes more. sure, AI can write a book, a song, replace the actor, paint a beautiful picture. but it's just a processed info, it has already been done. I think eventually we'll turn from majority-appealing art to unique art, because if everyone can make something like this it's not interesting anymore. so generic popular artists rn who do something ordinary and uncreative but likeable by most people would lose their jobs, yeah. but society will have more appreciation for people who actually put their talent into creative process. we'll stop aiming for perfection which is sure accessible only with AI and turn to uniqueness. rn a lot of indie artists are not getting paid and appreciated enough because there's always this generic people pleasing art which can get companies more money that something not-so-perfect. but now everyone can make this generic art with AI. we don't need to pay for it. 'sellable' art is not so sellable anymore.
after sucking out their cannibalistic tendencies trying to get all profit from AI and not by paying actual people for their work companies would see that, wow, they need people. their AI generated generic stuff won't be popular and likeable for long. why pay for something you can do for free with all this AI engines?
I think that talented people won't be hidden in the shade of people pleasing art for long now, because there's no need in people pleasing art anymore. I'll generate it myself, I need something unique and new, something AI can't make.
@@secondaryemotion you make a valid and optimistic point, that I partially agree with. The issue in my opinion is people, not the AI itself. AI is not inherently harmful to human jobs and creativity, but the current capitalist climate definitely is. The way people are using these programs are a danger to creatives and their jobs.
So I agree that eventually in the future AI will become a part of the process of creating and inspiring art, in fact it's already being used that way by many artists. It's just unfortunate that artists are going to be continuously undervalued by companies and consumers using AI.
@@butterontoast3657 true, capitalism as usual went to minimizing every expense possible with no respect for quality and humanity. it'll bite them back eventually
Remember when we all dreamed of AI replacing all these crappy office jobs and IT stuff so we could have more time for ART and expression?
Pepperridge Farms remembers.
If only that was how it worked 😭
@@ErZi-uo7fmwell like more of the boring stuff like mindless stuff. ai could also be used to help teach and outline code for the it people
Knowing how many words a book should have is like one of the least important parts of writing. You look that up to figure out if what you’ve written actually counts as a book or if it’s just a short story.
I think it's good to get a sense of structure with word counts (should u expect the rising action or climax to appear at a certain percentage of the story), but even then those are rules u don't necessarily have to follow!
It does count for things like NaNo or if your editor says "cut this down to X words" but you're right that it is very secondary to a lot of the other parts of the craft.
I've never thought of a word count, just a page count.
@@KairiMorin People used to online stories are more familiar with wordcount length, VS page length. I will admit I'm the same at this point. I do still read books with actual pages, but it's easier for me to understand wordcounts. (it's also useful when you consider books have different font sizes in them)
@@olirikable I write online tho lol.
I hate AI in art, because as you mentioned at the end there are so many fields where AI has genuine promise to help humanity. Like, I’ve seen doctors talk about how soon AI programs will be able to read scans and stuff more accurately than people which would help detect cancers sooner and save lives. That’s amazing, and yet the tech bros are focused on making a quick buck in creative industries instead of finding ways to use the technology to actually help people.
The scan reading shit is straight up bollocks as someone who works in a hospital. That dumb pos flags up every goddamn ankle as being broken whether it is or isnt, and the implications of clinicians acting on something an AI decides will need treatment rather than someone actually trained to do their job with clinical judgement and context is terrifying…
They can be very helpful in creative industries as well. For one, they're a wonderful accessibility tool, both in terms of disability and for people who simply don't have the time to aquire the technical skill needed to express their creativity. It lowers the barrier for entry which means so many more people can engage in it.
It also allows artists (especially solo or indie artists) take on much bigger and more ambitious projects than what they would usually be able to do. Especially because there are now so many more tools to control the result than just a word prompt, which makes the process a lot more involved.
The only good examples of AI-aided art I’ve seen are when individual artists train an AI on their own works, then have the AI work as a tool to either help them figure out shapes to fill in details in certain areas, figure out colors, etc… AI should only be used as a tool when it comes to art, in my opinion.
It makes me so mad that people ruin everything. Like, some people are scared of the AI itself, but even in fiction it's always originally been the humans' fault. See: Horizon Zero Dawn, Terminator. In God's year 2023 we have no Skynet, but we have shitty people giving creative work to a hecking algorithm (because technically, lbr, true AI doesn't even exist yet).
@@lilowhitney8614 AI art as you describe is plagiarism and not art. AI programs are more expensive than using a pen and paper to learn, and to insinuate its disability friendly is an insult to all the disabled artists out there making real art.
There’s a great episode about AI on the podcast Behind the Bastards. They predict that AI books will cause class division, with poor children reading low-quality AI books, and rich children reading high-quality, human-written books. Horrifying
Ohhh that sounds rly interesting but depressing at the same time!
Oh boy. It's kind of already happening in other ways, the richest parents can afford enriching preschools and educated nannies who know how to make sure a child hits all the milestones. Poorer parents come home from their third job and hope that auntie Liz only let the kids watch those horrible spiderman/pregnant elsa in a shopping cart youtube videos for an hour today.
That makes sense. Think about how certain writing like certain poetry was only accessible to wealthy people in history and obviously reading and intellectualising text and challenging your think brings about so many benefits with simple better understanding of self,others and probably other stuff that benefit capitalism which I couldn’t be bothered to look into
I think it's funny that you think rich people care that much about their kids' education. I don't know much about it but I think charter schools already disproved this one.
Or you can just keep reprinting the same children's books over and over again. Then you don't even have to pay someone to curate what the AI makes.
I remember this on Twitter, Authors and Fans were tearing that dude apart. This is why tech bros need to have ethics classes bc it doesn't take much to see how this is a fucked up thing to do.
Benji knew he stole those books and didn't care about how not only is that violating to the authors but oh, I don't know, illegal???
Hopefully a lesson learned!
This is why we need strong business regulation, PERIOD.
i don't know why these tech bros want to find the mathematical formula to writing. it's art, it's ARTTTTT
Bc actual creativity is hard for them 😪
they can’t fathom that creativity isn’t just some randomly generated content from human brain machine. because that would mean they’re inadequate
They just want to make money, and they know the people who have money will love hearing they don't need to pay anybody but him, to use his product
Do these tech bros even know math? Like where r the Gauss and Ramanujan? Why is our gen stuck w/ tech bros 🤷
Math and science require a vast amount of creativity. What they lack is empathy and understanding. Patterns are cool. Wanting to understand patterns and their interplay is awesome. Using that to ruin other creative fields for a quick buck is fucked up
this obsession with finding a mathematical solution to the perfect book formula... it's so arrogant, to not just take a writing class when you have this much free time. the only motivation is the thought that you already know better than what you could learn from other writers trying to teach.
It’s dehumanizing, literally.
@@pixieinx exactly, people are not an algorithm
Trying to find the mathematical cheat code to success and the highest amount of profit. The way they are so willing to forget what makes humanity worth existing so that they can be rich is disgusting! And they’re trying to get everybody else in the same mindset as them
Right!! It reeks of arrogance. “I’m above those commoners who learned to write by actually taking time to improve their craft by practicing writing, attending classes, and reading books.” Is what I heard. Not that little “I wanted to write a memoir and didn’t know where to start” BS.
It just gives me major autistic vibes
I get big "why are you booing my genius?" vibes from this guy. "I didn't mean to hurt anyone." Okay, but you did, so fix it. This is theft, and even if he's removing the books from his site, the AI engine has already been trained on the data. When are courts going to start caring about this issue? We need laws in place to protect people. We have some of the strictest copywrite laws in the world because Disney didn't want to give up their rights to property. You're telling me NO copywrite laws are being violated with use of AI? Everything about the capitalization of AI in creative fields is ridiculous. It should be illegal.
Thankfully there are some court cases dealing with AI issues right now, and it seems like they’re going to fall in favour of creators, but we’ll see.
And I agree, his response reeked of “can’t you understand my side, I’m not a villain in your story.” Yes my dude, you’re one of the worst.
"You're telling me NO copywrite laws are being violated with use of AI"
Correct! The court cases Rikrobat is mentioning have next to no chance of going in the way of creators because training an AI on copyrighted data is clearly and obviously fair use.
It's one of the single most transformative things you can do! You're taking groups of narratives or other data points and from these narratives constructing a mathematical model that doesn't actually contain any of these data points.
Like, you've gone from a data set to a mathematical model. These are fundamentally, qualitatively different things. Any ruling that this isn't transformative would be so overly broad as it would destroy _google search,_ as google search uses webcrawling to index sites.
Now, there's a tiny bit of nuance here, in that outputs of these models could, potentially, be copyright infringing. So if you see "get me pictures of Spiderman", one model might give you pictures of a man amalgamated with a spider, but another might give you a picture of Spiderman. The second, potentially, might violate copyright. But it's not clear _who_ has violated copyright in this situation, legally speaking. It could be the entity who provided the training data to the company who made the model - not because copyrighted material was presented, but because we say it was presented in such a way that it was impossible for outputs to avoid infringing copyrights in some situations. It could be the entity that trained the model, because we say it was their duty to sanitize the data in the training such that this outcome didn't happen. Or we could place the legal liability on the end user to not generate infringing outcomes + to not publish them.
But this hasn't been decided yet. And it's not clear at all what the correct choice should be. But the actual _training of the model on copyrighted information_ is clearly kosher, regardless of whether authors and artists like it.
The rampant commercialization of creative processes (like writing and art) is definitely contributing to AI. People don't want to be bad at these things, but they also don't want to put in the effort to get better, so AI is a simple 'solution'. Not to mention how it just basically steals from the input from real artists and writers who put years of effort into their craft. Creativity is something that has been turned into nothing more than another commodity.
Yup, it's an easy way for ppl to cut corners and for companies to get mass products
@@withcindyI agree. Writing and art is something at companies have been looking to have factory produced for years, and now with AI, it's finally something that looks like it could work. But art and novels are so special, because they're handcrafted.
Yeah, I don't think it has much to do with any real artists. The people who "don't want to be bad at [art]." As you say. It's exploitation. I think the real problem is in a capitalist system art was always nothing more than a commodity. That was easy enough to ignore because we told ourselves the art that survived did so because it defined our culture, and not that our culture was being defined by "commodities brokers" who flood the market with branded "content" to ensure its survival with omnipresence, until the critical thinking of the entire culture is irreparably damaged. Now that we're faced with the the threat of the "formula for success" being a literal formula that may actually succeed due solely to ubiquity and the passive surrender of the lowest common denominator, the fear I think, above all else is it will prove once and for all that we never really had a culture to begin with.
@@futurestoryteller I think it's not quite as bleak as all that. Look at other "artistic" areas that have been automated, woodworking or textiles. Yeah, there's a ton of mass produced furniture and clothing where there wasn't prior. But you still _have_ artisans who produce bespoke pieces as needed. It's just a much smaller community.
I think in the same way things like the production of art _as decoration_ will probably be optimized, but for upper middle class / wealthy individuals who want real paintings to show off a more refined aesthetic sensibility, art _as experience_ you're still going to have artists around.
@@najawin8348 You are literally comparing complex narrative artforms to frilly aesthetics.
Why are so many “aspiring writers” so desperate to cut corners to learn how to write well? Just read, read the genres you want to write in and the genres outside of that, learn organically what works and what doesn’t, it’ll take longer but in the end you’ll have a higher quality and more authentic mental skill library to work off of.
He seems to show he had a curiosity mindset in his statement, why not apply that curiosity to reading and writing?
@@withcindy but that would take effort and time! He wants to write his bestselling memoir now! (wanna bet that he never once did or experienced anything worthy of being in a memoir?)
Honestly, I think it's part of the whole 'get rich quick' mentality that's been pushed since the whole four hour workweek type books gained an audience among people who wanted to make money without the effort or developing an aesthetic
Not all of us can afford either the time or the expense of writing courses or extensive libraries. I've learned tons about the craft just from using grammar-checkers like Grammarly and ProWritingAid. Neither can write an original work from scratch.
They're literally missing out on how satisfying and rewarding the process can be. Doing art and writing actually saved my life lmao
reminds me of that discworld book where the bad guys Experienced Art for the first time and started tearing apart the paintings to try and find what component was making them feel things
Ooo that sounds like a good concept!
@@withcindy the book's Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett if anyone wants to read it
This is just another way that the value of creatives is being underestimated. When authors have talked about the impact of book piracy for them, even with some of the deeper nuances around consumer access, there’s always one person on every post who comes off entitled and asks why the authors expect to be paid for their work. When the WGA and then SAG went on strike, everyone used the 1% of millionaire actors and writers as reasons not to care, as if they represent the majority, when they don’t. And AI just further proves this point: it’s like they don’t want real artists to get paid, because they’re jealous of them for their skill, and want to steal from them using flimsy justifications.
@@rsmith4407 BINGO. This def hit a chord. I absolutely agree.
They are lazy
I genuinely can't believe shit like this is actually happening, and the worst thing, aside from the theft, is that- it won't even create the 'ideal' book if it averages statistics. It just creates the most generic writing to ever be made.
We are living in a dystopian society. We basically got everything besides people being half robot half human 😭
@@sasielb8922The ONE thing that would be cool 😔 But humanity sucks, we’d probably just repeat slavery and the civil rights movement.
I think the idea is that everyone is a basic bitch someway. So if you like sad, surreal crap with light humor, they'll plug that into the algorithm and get you your favorite flavor.
@@Givebackthescarf Maybe you don't know what it means. Reality is starting to look like every dystopian sci fi movie I ever saw as a kid
I'm only partway through the video, but it's so... baffling... to me. This whole endeavor seems like cowardice. Like he's so fixated on finding the mathematical "proof" that makes a book good, because if he has to find it out by actually trying it, he'll have to face his own unpolished skills and limited ability, just like every other artist does when they first start out. Also, I agree that there's potentially something interesting about quantifying and analyzing the language and writing from books and what is considered "good" prose, but the way that his product is focused on the sentence structure and syntax first, and not the content or themes or emotions, is also cowardice. Like, he wants to be Absolutely Sure he can write The Bestest Ever before he injects any of his own personal experiences or potential vulnerabilities into it
It reduces complexity and humanity into emotionless data
This is an excellent take. Having good data is generally important, but data itself won't write a compelling story. He' trying to create a "write by numbers" guide. The man can't compete with the authors he admires so he has to mine from them instead. I'd be sad for him if this issue wasn't so infuriating.
Yeah, there was a program that I had to learn to use (and then never used afterwards because I went into another direction) when I studied linguistics and literature. You had to put in a text document, and then the program showed which words were used, and how often, etc. So we had to put in a tarzan book published in 1917 or so, and one of the questions was why the word German appeared so often. Gee I wonder if it has anything to do with that war that's going on. Things like that. The program couldn't really do analysis, just provide data on texts. It is very useful in linguistics if you want to analyse a transcription of a conversation for example. So he basically made a program that already existed and stole data from copyrighted texts to do it, instead of just using the already existing program, or I dunno, writing his book.
everyone who writes knows that the ratio of passive:active voice or like words per page or other stats don't matter. what matters is how crazy insane you are about your ideas. sometimes i black out for a day and when i wake up 16 pages of text have manifested on my doc. techbros could never understand.
Wow wish that were me
Tell me your secret I literally write like une line for week😅
I wish that were me. My writing process is painfully conscious.
@@withcindy unfortunately it renders me incapable of writing anything coherent for at least a week so it has its downsides
This is literally me. I have 27 drafts with pages of info, descriptions, and world building and Lore for stories but writers block has made me struggle for ages to actually complete more than 10 chapters for any of them
The worst use of AI I've heard of is studios forcing background actors to have full body scans and offering no compensation for using their likeness in future projects.
I saw some lawyer online suggesting key words for non-legal people without support to ctrl+f (or search for) in contracts, but that ignores that background actors don't get contracts in advance, they're probably exhausted and hungry, they've got production assistants yelling at them to hurry up signing, and if they object they'll get no work and can't pay rent.
It’s really ridiculous like we need more laws protecting their rights tbh
It's also the fact that people are now so suspicious of everything and wonder if it's human or not - and that's going to become a problem. Trust on the internet is already so flimsy. I recently had my artwork flagged as AI art and taken down off a site that is AI free. Even on instagram now I can't upload without someone on every post claiming it's AI- which I then have to link to my RUclips to "prove" I painted it. Honestly considering just getting off the internet and switching to traditional art. But I'm sure it's the same in the writing world where new authors are going to have a hard time in the future proving it. Maybe making software to detect it? Which I realize is ironic but...
it's actually crazy how creatives usually have an inferiority complex meanwhile ai prompt typers will write 5 words along the lines of "cool fantasy setting epic story" and feel like they're sooo talented and act like they did all the work
i'm begging for laws to limit this kind of garbage, please 😭
Wait, seriously? There’s a program that actually does that? Sorry, I’m not a tech-y person and I’m just like… is this the Jetsons? 🤖
@@Jerri.Blank.9674 Yes and no. The resulting text is really just a lot of different stolen text mixed and matched. Computers can't think and don't have creativity, inherently anything created by these algorithms are the result of cold math.
Cause they haven't done anything worth to be proud of in their lives so far, that's my guess lmao
I feel like ppl operate backwards. Those who are talented always doubt themselves and then there are those who are arrogantly incompetent lol
It's imposter syndrome combined with the dunning kruger effect.
They always talk about how the arts isn’t as important as other fields but if it isn’t as important why are they so INSISTENT on capitalizing off of it? Clearly all of these massively known companies and corporations see a big enough of profit potential to be bending over backwards and sideways like this
Too bad they won't pay actual creatives decently 😪
Fr, those same tech bros love quoting idk like, Walter White, and then have the audacity to say that the arts are meaningless
Men will literally create an entire website made up of stolen art instead of going to therapy.
OR instead of actually writing a book
The guy who made the website HAD written a book, prior to creating the AI tool. He also had worked through PTSD from surviving a shipwreck. I don't think it's ok to shame people's mental health because you have a problem with them. You can just say what he did was wrong.
@@hey_niki_I'm going to bet op didn't notice about him before writing the comment lol
@@hey_niki_I didn't know the tech bro's background but that still doesn't excuse his shitty behaviour. Having a traumatic experience doesn't mean he should be ok with stealing other's art. If he "worked through" his PTSD with a mental health professional, then he should be able to do some self-introspection, but he showed in his response to the controversy that he's just an entitled asshat.
@@hey_niki_ So instead of hiring a ghost writer (or learning how to write) like a normal person, he decides he needed to steal in order to write the most average book ever. Does this man understand what a story even is?
Yeah... uh... all that he wrote was just narcissistic spew. If he really cared about the damage he'd caused, he'd have simply apologized and then detailed what he'd do to mitigate the problem.
Exactly! He made no actual self reflection
Valid but narcissism is a mental disorder not a personality trait you can tack onto people you don’t like. Stop doing this it’s ableist! ❤
@@nyxsangel I implied that his behavior was narcissistic, and it is. While it's important not to demonize people with mental disorders, it's also not wise to ignore the symptoms when we see them. And, just to be clear, I neither like nor dislike the man. I've never met him.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he used AI to write the response
Did he look at the average number of words in other pointless so-called "apologies" on the internet to figure out how to craft his own non-apology? Cuz that was a lot of words saying nothing
I need him to run the apology thru AI to get a "vividness" score
AI is not only terrifying, but it is becoming a real problem everywhere. I am currently working as a TA to get through grad school, and the teachers are now forced to check every single student's writing for plagiarism because there's now an AI system that you can input sources from wherever and it'll rewrite it "in your words" without properly crediting anything. I had to flag three students for plagiarizing this week. And while it's still incredibly crude now because it doesn't write with correct grammer/sentence structure/etc, I have a really bad feeling it'll get more sophisticated in the future. I literally don't understand why they want to go to all this trouble to fail or be expelled, WHEN YOU CAN JUST CITE THE FUCKING SOURCE. IT TAKES FIVE FUCKING MINUTES!!!!
My teacher friend has the same problem and she says it's always very obvious that it's run thu chatGPT. There might come a day where it'll be much harder to detect tho!
Meanwhile I feel guilty when I have to email my professor to make sure I’m citing my sources correctly (to avoid being accused of plagiarism) because I don’t want to be wasting his time. Like why are you even in university if you’re not willing to write the damn essays?!
@@withcindy On the other end of that issue, some "AI detectors" are false-flagging the simple use of spellcheck as "AI". Plagarism detectors often use metadata as part of their analysis.
AI might finally get schools to update their outdated teaching practices.
To be fair academic writing, especially scientific writing, is incredibly pretentious. In many ways this kind of writing doesn't want your words or opinions. You are rewarded for how well you regurgitate other people's work without being obvious about it. It's not quit the same as creative writing.
"Why is it always a white man at the crime scene?" made me laugh so hard.
I used to write fanfiction and the site I posted them to was scraped for AI purposes without anyone's permission, of course. It is really difficult to know that the hours I spent improving my skills is reduced to a few keywords that you can pop into an AI engine and there you go, a piece is born off of other writers' works.
In this specific case, I think if my work was 1. scraped by AI then 2. ranked and judged by said AI I'd honestly lose my mind. At least judge me as a human lol
Another real problem is that the programmer didn't seem to understand what passive voice or vivid language means. "I don't know where Danny may be," is marked as passive and it just isn't a passive voice sentence. Beyond the ethical questions you raise another huge error is that he's built the program around at least one fundamental confusion: voice is not tense, but its being pawned off as data.
Good point!!
I started teaching this year. The first essay assignment I gave resulted in 5 AI-generated texts out of 25. They were SO damn obvious. All sounded similar with same-ish wording etc (clearly they used the same prompt - namely, the text assignment prompt), and they weren't even good or made much sense. Worst of all: this is an English as a foreign language class - meaning the students are approximately at an A2 level (13-year-olds). The words used were so fancy that I would be hard-pressed to come up with some of those expressions (not saying I'm any good at writing, but I do take pride in my degree). As much as I see potential in developing AI, the current unrestricted and unreflected usage of those programs is ridiculous.
My teacher friend said the same thing. So many of her students use chatGPT for their work and she says it's very obvious. I wonder how soon it will eventually not be obvious though
@@withcindy It think it very much depends on the prompt. At the moment, it's especially obvious in the advanced vocabulary (students are not smart with prompting) and since they have the same task, the results all sound similar; I think that is still unavoidable - same prompt = similar results. Some of the stories are also very illogical (that could is a bit "easier" to fix). However, AI is far away from understanding and faking emotion which will always be a telltale sign. Also, while AI is getting smarter, AI detectors are getting smarter as well (:
I remember my friend introduced me to this site that was basically a program crafting fictional scenarios in a sort of Choose Your Own Adventure style. It was fun to see all the different scenarios the program came up with. I think if you're using these kinds of programs for fun or small amounts of chaos, that's fine. The problem lies in those programs being used to artificially replicate voices of people without their consent, steal something that is rightfully their own(whether digitally or physically). TLDR: Use AI for harmless fun, not to rip off the hard work of actual people. It's not hard to be a decent human being. But here we are.
Exactly! That's a good example
I have used that website before. If it's the one I'm thinking of. That website has actually given me ideas of my own honestly! So yeah I'd something inspires you to create something, then I don't think it's a bad thing. However, if you're going to use it to steal other people's work, just... no.
whats the program name?
@@an0n__ there's two that are on top of my head. AI Dungeon and Novel AI.
@@an0n__ AI dungeon is a website and app that does this, It is free for the most part. Not sure if this is the one you are looking for.
10:15 The cultural aspect of writing is so important. I remember the first time we've read a Japanese writer in high school, how different the voice was from our native and Western writers, and some kids were really uncomfortable with it. Like "I don't want to know what flowers were in bloom, I wanna know what the characters are doing!!1" and for me as someone who thinks mostly in ~vibes~ rather than images or words it was a weird sentiment.
Same can even be said about popular Western writers, although the mood/voice is different, I'm always sus about people criticizing a book for "too many descriptions". Was it really too many or do you just have no patience for the writer kindly setting a scene for you and immersing you further?
Artists and Writers Unite! People underestimate the value of art and the process it takes to make it.
It's severely undervalued!
I ended a long friendship when I realized he was an AI bro and defended people stealing art to feed into AI. He was very defensive, refused to listen to my worries as an author and an artist literally making pennies, and that is when I realized why he never published anything but talked about writing - he didn't have the talent and hoped AI would evolve enough to do it for him. I rather do the hard work to learn, than steal from anyone....which is an unfortunately hard path when a lot of people around me seem to glorify these generators and want to use them in my line of work.
ending friendships is always tough especially when you realize that your values are not aligned. sorry you had to go through that :(
@@withcindy
Thank you for your kindness. (: I'll be ok, no, I'll be better than that without that friendship pulling me down. I can always make new friends who support my line of work.
1:17 Something or someone took “Good artist borrow, Great artists steal.” a little too literally.
One of the job's I've done over the years is permission seeking for textbooks. There is always a discussion of fair use versus "needs permission," and in cases where the publisher absolutely needed permission from the author of the other work, I'd have to try and track down who to contact for that permission. Sometimes it goes well, sometimes you can't make contact, and sometimes that work is too expensive to license, so the requesting author needs to make a call on what they don't want to part with and what they can adjust to cut down permissions costs.
The only time it would be "the owner of the work can reach out" is if we tried every possible route of getting in contact with them and ran into dead ends, aka due diligence. But those cases were pretty rare, since publishers/authors usually choose to back down and replace the content instead.
A big reason we hate authors using song lyrics in their books, especially in epilogues, is because they're stupidly expensive to license. LOL. But the poiint is, authors need to pay for the use of someone else's work when fair use does not apply. This sort of situation is infuriating, but particularly when the AI techbro has this stance of "what's the harm?"
Oooh interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience ❤️
Honestly, Benji's essay letter says he doesn't care wherher what he did was right or wrong. He's clearly waiting for the worm to turn so he can bring his idea about again.
exactly
This man should've just spent all this time working on his writing skills instead of infringing on authors' copyright but noooo
Lol he'll spend hours doing that instead of actually writing
But he wants to publish his bestselling memoir now!
I'll bet he never once experienced or did anything that warrants a memoir.
I hate how common this is and how unsurprised I am at anything this man said or did. Literally just par for the course right now.
And Cindy is right, somehow it really is always a white man at the crime scene
Sensing a trend here !!
All of them are guilty, to varying degrees. Some just don't admit it.
I'm a fan of the logic of using AI in the same way we use calculators. Like asking chatgtp for a list of norse inspired characters names or asking questions on like if there is existing mythology around jellyfish is one thing. I feel AI could be a useful tool to enhance and encourage writers to expand BUT ONLY WHEN USED ETHICALLY which is where the problem lies currently.
This is such a good analogy
I'm reading through the tweets of his "I'm sorry I stole people's books" and I just... so many people are saying he shouldn't have caved. And I'm here like... am I taking crazy pills? Art is created for humans by humans, AI won't understand the complexity of human speech, words, how to convey descriptions. Like, novels by AI will just make no sense whatsoever. This is why I talk about how bad AI is. I'm a writer, and something I've taken years to craft can be stolen by some guy so he can write his memoir. I just...
Caved to authors very valid concerns?? Idgi lol
"And I'm here like... am I taking crazy pills?"
Yeah, you are. What he did is archetypal fair use, freshman level natural language processing stuff. Like, it's of limited utility. But this isn't something that anyone should have been upset about. If it's illegal or wrong, there's a whooooolllllleeeee bunch of academics who are doing things illegal and wrong.
So, I'm a massive data nerd, and I was practically bouncing with excitement to see that Grammarly did a breakdown of some random data points. This kind of program would 100% spark some morbid curiosity in me. How much active voice do I actually use????
But would it change how I write? Are you crazy? Grammarly, AI, Prosewriter3000 isn't telling me how to write! Most programs are passable at *best* when it comes to understanding sentence structure (and they especially struggles with fiction, go figure). I'm not using it to influence anything other than basic spell check or possible inspiration.
Should it have scraped from writers without permission? It's not even a question. I'm sick of AI and scraping, man
Yup ur totally right! There's limitations for how much it can actually help ur writing, and at the very least should not steal from thousands of authors
@@withcindy I remember "Don't steal" being a basic rule for a few religions, including English class when I was, like, 5. Crazy how easily these tech-AI-bros seem to have forgotten one of the earliest rules I can think of
One thing I use chat gpt for is for emails.
I write my text and tell it if they can make it sound a little bit more precise or professional.
Sometimes is too professional, so i use that text to re-construct it again.
As well as giving me ideas on what to put as the email situation that'll catch the senders eye.
Because writing an e-mail geninuely stresses me out and since I tend to ramble a lot in text and over explain, I don't know how to write a message thats short, semi- professional and precise.
As seen by this massive text I just wrote. 😅
@@barbicelomg that's actually such a good idea. I suck at writing emails too
I can't imagine stealing or fake writing a book. It has taken me years to finish and i have some level of adhd and other issues so nothing about writing is easy for me. Yet, I rather die than have someone say my book was written by AI. As hard as it is, there is nothing better than creating it all.
As a writer myself I am completely appalled to figure out that this is happening, it's truly horrific to know that something as important as writing is to me is being treated like this, like just something somebody can write over night without putting any passion into it. I can't count how many countless nights and days I've put my blood sweat and tears into my writing, and to know that there's some people out there who don't do that really makes me worried for the future of writing.
“Why do you have to point out that he’s a white man?!”
“Well, I don’t know? Why are they always seen at the scene of the crime?”
✨ ICONIC ✨
Yep, Cindy, as I shared with you when you first started your channel, this is the kind of thing I've been working to combat with the platform I've been developing for the past 2 decades. We'll even have a publishing arm that will only allow non-AI works to be published. Yeah, it's been a lot of work, but *somebody's* gotta do it.......
You can do it!
@@withcindy Thanx for always cheering me on, my Smurfette! It's good people like you who've given me fuel to power through during the worst of this development 😘
I sent this video to my dad who self preclaimes himself as someone with no creativity and is a writer himself who uses AI...he refused to watch this video
Boooooo at him using AI
I feel like someone who uses AI to write can’t really call themselves a writer. I’m not trying to be gatekeepy, but if you just tell a computer program to write for you, you didn’t actually do that writing; the computer did.
Honestly I like AI to proofread proffesional emails etc on my third language when Im not sure how to put it in corporatese. But obviously nothing creative or world changing lol. This is just theft, and also, a business debacle cuz as far as I know, in my country, AI creations cant be copyrighted, so nobody is getting paid, not even the devs lol
@@tsifirakiehl4250It's not gatekeeping, just asking someone to fulfill the basic definition of a word. Can't be a writer without writing.
@tsifirakiehl4250 i wanna bring this in the discourse: what about using Ai but for helping writerblock n getting the ideas out but after planning, they rewrite it in _their_ words and _maybe_ even keep some, make changes and edit? Is that also bad? Or should Ai **be shut out completely, no matter what?
Passive voice and vivid writing are like line work, product of choice and style. I use a lot of passive voice to write (and narrate) youtube shorts, but not for comics or novels. It’s sad that writers now go through what us, visual artists, have been battling for a while.
I teach character design, and some of my students were frustrated by putting in the work while others were using AI to create their comics. That went on until both Tapas and Webtoons changed their policies regarding AI, no longer allowing it.
I’m pro tech, but only if it’s not exploiting other people’s work without consent and for quick profit. Why not a platform where artists can upload their work (if they wish to) to train an AI while being compensated for it? Is it such a naive vision to include creators themselves in the process to create something everyone can benefit from?!
Yeah tech isn't necessarily bad but should support artists rather than take away from them!
Good for tapas and webtoon!
Yes, thank you! Like why not just do what vocaloid did?
i love seeing cindy youtube account talking about all the drama happening on the bookish community
I'll do more of these whenever I see something interesting to discuss!
peak STEM brain right there. You're so right about why colleges force us to take liberal arts classes, they're trying so hard to make us smart, yet our brains are polished smooth T_T
It's also why regressive politicians are fighting so hard to tear down the liberal arts as "woke". STEM brains are useful to the capital class, but lack the "soul" to resist/question authority.
He’s like a robot who wants to learn about feelings so he needs data to tell him how to feel… that’s so sad. He wants to be like one of us lol poor thing
Tbh I get how daunting it can be for ppl to approach writing and see how data might be a useful tactic! The big screw up here is that he very likely pirated books without authors permission
@@withcindy And then deflected blame to everything but himself
This is the best way to put it😭
"I didn't know how many words I should write. I heard that 'real books' should be about 100,000 words."
1. Based on multiple sources, the average word count for books is between 70k-80k, butt an be as low as 50-60k.
2. The number of words you should write is the number your story needs to be written. If the final count is 64,370, then you needed to write 64,370. If it ends up being 101,005, then that's how much you should write.
Atleast some places in the world have a union-led system that talk about AI with a great deal of scepticism. Meanwhile, in India, tech bros tell you to stop worrying about interns and use AI instead so how is someone going to have an entry level job?
P.S. We haven’t begun to scratch the surface about AI globally. Also, copyright laws are not equally important in some countries.
Not ai related but I remember that one tweet from a luxembourg artist who had her photo copied in another person's painting but the copyright office told her they could do nothing about it 😢
The art of the nonapology is the only thing he learned from this.
Glad he avoided passive sentences ❤️
you're so right, except calling nonapology an art is an insult to other art forms!!
honestly we should just classify ai bros as sociopaths and narcissists. when all they do is spew the same, cold "adapt or die" rhetoric at people who are justifiably upset that their work is being stolen from them, when they trivialise the very real concerns that artists and creatives have that their passion could be dying out forever by dismissing their work as no better than an algorithm, when they grandiosely claim that ai can solve every single issue in the world without regulation or oversight, and when they harshly dismiss any kind of criticism as luddite trash, red flags should be popping up for a lot of people. I've seen artists be called specialised slurs by ai bros. I've heard about artists friends who were straight up told by ai bros that society would be happy to let them die in the ai revolution. I've expressed that, as a creative, ai was making me feel genuinely s*icidal and my response from an ai bro was that he would gladly let me kill myself if he was given the chance. Btw this was right before he straight up copied art posted in a discord channel without asking permission and gloated about it to the artist's face. ai bros are scum.
It is funny because if they read any books, there are multiple sci-fi that warn against blind trust of AI.
That a sociopathic mindset from them.
I think these behaviors are encouraged and ppl arent just born like that to this extent. Profit over everything.
I feel like you can tell a lot about a person’s taste level based on how they approach the topic of using AI to create “content” like this. 😒 If they’re fine putting out meaningless garbage, then what are they reading for fun on their own time? Do they even read for fun, or is this just a cash grab?
They 100 don’t read for fun and if they do it’s definitely one of those “how to become a CEO” books
@@sasielb8922 100%!
I am all for AI being used as a helping hand to authors (Grammer and such) but using other people's books without permission to make an Ai that basically just uses Authors' works as data which to me feels inhumane if they weren't asked for proper permission.
asked AND compensated
All these tech bros getting into trying to “Silicon Valley” therapy, art, and writing… they see something they can’t do and instead of trying to do it themselves, or celebrating that different people in this world have different skills, they try to create a computer program to do it for them
Is it a shortcut or is it "revolutionizing the industry"
Sounds like the typical gifted kid to me
This sounds to me like a perfect place for a breach of copyright lawsuit, perhaps even with some jail time. On top of that, someone needs to close some fire-doors to keep this from happening in the future.
Hopefully this scares away other tech bros!
This is a reminder to all of my authors out there to STOP USING GOOGLE DOCS for your manuscripts! Google Docs’ TOS implies that they can use your work to train their AI, just like this AI! Switch to Word or something else instead. Protect your art.
EDIT: my wording was wrong-Google does not explicitly state this. It’s just a very strong possibility due to the wording of their TOS. Check the responses to this comment for more info!
I thought that was disproved? Is there a place we can look at that highlights this?
Tbh libreoffice for the win
i think i need to go there real quick and delete my entire diary
I’m reading their TOS and I don’t see anything to back that up? Can you point to a source please?
adding to the people requesting a source! Docs is the only Google tool I still use bc of...laziness to transfer everything honestly, but if this is true...
This is insane to think about. Writing is not an equation to be solved, it doesn’t matter if you use adverbs or passive voice etc etc because the point of writing is as an expression of creativity. Even those rules about “don’t do this, don’t do that” that we learn in writing classes are more like guidelines that are meant to be broken. You can’t “solve” writing.
The emphasis on passive voice is so hilarious to me. It strikes me as something he learned in primary school and is now uncritically applying
Prosecraft is New news to me so I love this discussion. I have heard the concerns about training AI but I didn't realise the piracy element! And including works that are in progress, wow?! Also love the point you made about art doesn't follow all the conventions that are outlined in the analysis of the different texts. I just used prowriting aid to analyse my work and while I found a lot of the analysis helpful there were some elements that I thought I could ignore because it would change the style of what I'd written.
Until this year, I was more familiar with AI being used by publishers for market insights and audience engagement and even in editing. Now I've also come across different podcasts discussing collaborative writing and one podcast mentioned a book I've not read yet but is listed on Goodreads as: Death of an Author: A Novella written by Aidan Marchine, Stephen Marche, ChatGPT, Sudowrite, Cohere
I genuinely do believe if people dont just Stop, ai writing/art will get “good enough” eventually and thats the worst part of all of this. Writing has always been an agonizingly slow process for me and i sympathize so badly with people like me not wanting it to be that way - like im not talking laziness, my writing process is something i have been fighting with for literally as long as i can remember being asked to write things. literally every single person i know who is also not a writer can write far faster than me and generally pretty well too. But… like where does ai come in as a real solution to my problem??? It doesnt help me actually write about what i want to write about lmao.
Bc AI was not built to help your problems but instead to benefit tech bros 😪
Machine Learning can definitely be a useful tool in art when done ethically but the problem is that to do it ethically requires a lot of careful investment and companies have no interest in doing that by and large.
Spider-Man Across the Spider-verse used machine learning to aid in some of the animation but it was trained on the work the studio itself produced. And it still needed to be tweaked by hand, it just reduced that grunt work Cindy alluded to.
There is so much public domain artwork out there to use for machine learning and it definitely can be useful. It both does and does not baffle me that one of the easiest ways to address a massive criticism to machine learning is being ignored.
I’m originally from art field and it makes me so desperate when my favourite artists take a bleak to rethink what they can do for living, because AI has copied their style too much or stole their art like full gallery. Because I can see already that some people choose to subscribe to AI generator to make art they want, not buying art commissions from actual artists. And the companies may do the same. What the point to hire an actual artist and wait a lot of time, if AI can produce a new book cover like in a seconds?
I just hope that people can accept the fact that it’s not ok and purposefully choose human works, not ai generations
One of my «friend» is so excited about AI that he wrote me a message “Are you looking for a new job already? Because in a few months AI will steal your work and your job.” /sarcastic/ 😢
My thing is...this service definitely already exists 💁🏾♀️ Autocrit's been in my inbox for years now since the first step to writing a book for me actually was to figure out how many words it should be. My guy's so unoriginal, even his career-ending idea is copyrighted.
Sounds better and more ethical!
Hi artist here. I agree AI is becoming a problem.
Stealing art, stealing writing and what ever else it steals from.
2:07 OMG YES! I love standing desks and I’m so happy you got one 👏🏽
Me too especially since i can charge my phone!
Honestly, looking at the state of our world; manufactured, low quality food, influx of fast/cheap fashion (shein, temu, ali, etc.) and now AI attempting to take over the arts - it's disappointing to see how consumerism and capitalism are interfering with the fundamentals of our world. Food and clothes are quite literally a necessity, and yet we're flooded with low quality, toxic alternatives (I read an article a while back about potentially high lead quantities in fast fashion?!), not to mention the human beings being exploited for these to produced in such high quotas.
It's disappointing to see how human beings are second to profit margins and consumerism, and it's also disappointing to see that more people don't care.
I don't understand why it takes a viral post (the goodreads/amazon author issue), or a favourite show being postponed/cancelled for people to recognise that real people are being affected in the process - re. SAG AFTRA, AI copies in art.
I wish more people cared, but alas, Chat GPT can write a subpar essay in seconds, so why should we care about the people said essay is being stolen from?
With that being said, I want to know your stance on using AI to assist with your own creative process?
I have an artist friend who uses pinterest / instagram for inspiration of her own, and she often finds (and is sometimes inspired by) what she later finds to be AI art.
In the same vein, I know I have messed around with a 'creative writing inspiration' bot on character-ai for a piece of my own that I was writing, where I'd put samples from my own writing for reviews and feedback (with suggested improvements).
I did do it the once and then felt exceedingly guilty about it, but in line with the fact that these cannot function/exist without human-made works in the first place, is there a consensus on the ethics behind using AI to inspire your on work?
@@yeehawtexasfanpageinspiration is not stealing. Unless you’re just writing what the AI pukes put in your own words, its totally valid to take some of its ideas and work it into what you have, its only what people do with human works anyway. People use prompts all the time! The difference is did you write it/draw it/whatever or did the AI and you changed the grammar or painted on an extra finger, or did you sit writing and painting for hours, days, weeks etc?
always love hearing your thoughts, Cindy. thank you for talking about this!
Thanks for watching!
Thank you so much for talking about this! I recently attended a design conference, and among the topics of discussion was the use of AI in design. I found it scary how so many people, even some designers themselves, were quick to brush off concerns about plagiarism and consent when it came to the processing of creative intellectual property. It's really affirming to hear you speak up about the ethical issues like this and get at the heart of why this isn't just a simple case of machines replacing menial labor and has a lot more to do with our humanity and creativity (which is why the arts is considered part of the "humanities"!) I 100% agree that we would all benefit if people from every field took up liberal arts and humanities.
Yeah AI is hailed as the next great thing in the design world. I think it can be good to have them for improving processes (like removing backgrounds instead of using content aware tool on Photoshop) but using other people's work or cheapening the designs is where things get murky
21:38 Doing data entry may be boring, but AI isn't going to free up time for data entry workers so they can work on other things... it eliminates them altogether. I'm in the process above data entry, which is intake sorting, and AI has almost completely taken over the data entry aspect. Data entry was seen as very valuable, even if boring, because of how transferable it is. It's an entry level job, it's not physically demanding or taxing, and allows you entry to other job sectors which can allow you to climb the career ladder. But that's going away.
Since it's not physically demanding, it's a good job for teens, disabled, and elderly. That can raise red flags, but honestly reality is more nuanced. I've talked to many who has joined at some point, before it was gutted, and many just wanted to be out of the house and do *something* that wasn't absolutely crushing, like retail.
The company AI is about 80% right, and my department has to correct the 20% it gets wrong, and our time in intake is seen as extremely valuable except now we have to sink more time in processing errors that should never should happen or should have been caught before it gets to us. Humans are tasked to be 98% correct, but the AI doesn't go by the same rules as us. From the last I heard, the few remaining workers in data entry at my workplace are going to be transferred to new positions or let go (company hasn't decided yet), and it's going to be %100 AI with a couple of review keyers.
The problem is viewing AI as a silver bullet, as if it'll lessen the workload, when in reality, the workload will increase to accommodate. If artists chose to use AI, it doesn't mean they'll have more free time, it means the demand will increase for the same pay, therefore your output must also increase. Partial automation in my workflow does not mean I have more free time, it means my workplace will accommodate and increase how many docs per hour I need to do for no extra pay. And for others, it'll eliminate jobs. No workload = no job. And the AI will not supplement as many jobs as it displaces. Techbros are some of the worst at understanding real world problems and logistics. Truly.
They always say "I used publicly available data!" like they don't understand what a license agreement is. Even if authors put their whole book online for free that doesn't mean you're allowed to use it however you want. There is not a good legal precedent for AI training data yet, and when you don't know whether or not something is legal to use how you want, the answer is don't use it until you know for sure it's okay. So his claim of "I looked at copyright laws to see if it was okay" just proves he didn't try very hard, and had a hunch what he was doing wasn't okay.
ALSO when they say it's "too hard to track where all the training data comes from", it's a lie. Web scrapers literally must know each web address they scrape, and it can very easily be logged, and very easily be tied to the data that is downloaded. AI startup devs don't bother keeping that record because they don't want to. Because it can only look bad for them since they would have to review it by hand to determine legality case-by-case before they could use the data, or they'd be sitting on a big pile of evidence of their infringement. So they try to play dumb and lie to you more by blaming the "scraper" that they wrote themselves for doing the stealing. Scum.
Great call out!!
I lost soooo much work…. I’m a ghost writer… and let me tell ya….. my career… if I can call it that…. Is down the shitter since a few years before AI became public use. I have a strong feeling they have been using AI to write shows and books since 2017…
But now all I get work for is people wanting me to edit their AI generated book crap and they also want me to make it make sense……….
So I’m hoping that the money I saved up over the years can keep me afloat until I finish my series… (it’s a lllooonnnnggggg fuckin story. Lol)
But I also hope to write an erotica for this channel to review… I don’t know if I want to make it silly and stupid or make it actually good. 🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏
Also thank you for speaking up about this… it does mean a lot. To me at least I can only speak for myself. 🥰🥰🥰
I'm sorry you've had to struggle with that :(
@@withcindy struggling only makes me stronger! 🥰🥰🔥
Besides…. AI can’t create the ideas in my head like I can and it can’t even comprehend the complexity of story telling. I am a story teller, AI is a giant algorithm.
And I know how we can mess up the algorithm for that program… if we all type into it the same thing… like the guys name with a giant 🍆 as his head… we can mess up his beloved program. Lmao. You get the program to do the same thing over and over again… they get stuck on that.
It’s gonna be a struggle… and it’s gonna get rough… but even with the stuff I put up with….. what doesn’t kill me better start fuckin runnin! Lol
I really appreciate your videos and you being active with your community. And even you speaking up and bringing this topic to your viewers is….. I know I really really appreciate it.
Please do another stilly 🍆 book rant please! They make me roll on the floor laughing.
As a visual artist its so disheatening seeing many companies, book covers, movie posters, etc use AI. Spending more than 10+ years developing and fine tuning a visual skill only for them to use a badly made, cheap, soulless version.
CS PhD student here, I may not work directly with the AI but many people in my lab do. Large language models have completely changed the game. Writing stories is not even a research question anymore. There was a recent study that came out that said that it is impossible to tell if text is written by AI (if it is trained a specific way). Very soon, it may not even be possible to tell if some text was written by AI at all. So to answer your question, it is very possible for AI to improve beyond detection and for the quality to massively improve as well. In my option AI needs to be regulated much more than it currently is. Personally, I think creators of art used to train a model should receive royalties for content created using it but again it may be impossible to tell.
I’m waiting for autogenerated captions to go up, so I can comprehend this video a little better. But because I love your channel so much Cindy, I’ll watch it twice!
Aw thank you!! I used to have more time to write captions but now it's been difficult 😭 I wish RUclips hadn't removed community contributions
Copyright law is going to be huge for the discussion of AI works. Especially if people want to get the rights to work they make with AI.
Even though AI stuff should only used as an outlining tool and writing it out yourself later. It STILL doesn't change the fact that he is NOT an author.
He’s doing computer science and human behavior.
It's like bringing an RV to a summer camping park. It's not camping, it's parking.
In my eyes AI stands for Ass-kicking Imminent because the people who advocate for data taking over actual creative people's livelihoods deserve it ✌️
ad Cindy: pain from hunching
me staring at my screen while sitting on the chair like a goblin: 🫣
They say in lead ups to revolutions art and books are the first to be exploited/controlled
Great discussion as usual!
I can't remember who said it but it was an artist from the studio, Cartoon Saloon, who said the quiet part loud.
These kinds of people who use AI to steal and copy art and writing, are failed artists/writers who only want the finished the result and praise without actually putting in any thought or effort.
It's very much a more advanced version of art thieves on DeviantArt.
Creative work has literally never been easier to jump into if you truly have the passion for it. There's so many resources to get started in writing, drawing, painting etc. and it's disappointing that people see AI as a replacement to creativity, not as an enhancement.
I like to use AI to generate fanfiction sometimes, just to see how badly it butchers the characters because I think it's funny. I can clearly tell both from writing my own and reading that written by others that it's an incredibly low quality product compared to something written by a human being. For one thing, ChatGPT seems obsessed with shoehorning in happy endings to prompts that shouldn't have them. I literally had it generate me a story about the Zodiac killer that ended with the Zodiac realizing he was a horrible person through his friendship with a random person, so he renounced his ways, became a nice guy, and was forgiven and loved by everyone. The freaking Zodiac killer...
It's literally like a fanfic written by a preteen that isn't good at characterization, but at least those preteens can somewhat grasp what those characters are supposed to be, AI does not and thinks everything needs to be happy with everyone learning a lesson about true friendship in the end. If that is the future of writing, then I really don't want to read anymore, because it's funny at first but gets annoying fast.
Yep, those AI harry potter stories are hilarious because they make no sense whatsoever, at some point the characters always cannibalise each other and it genuinely has no semblance of a story whatsoever. Its so bad its laughable, now. But the more these things are fed the better the things they puke back up, in theory
@@katierasburn9571 In theory, yeah, but in practice, a machine would never be able to reproduce anything created by a human because it reduces everything to math without actually understanding why that formula is successful in the first place. I compare it to all the numerous gory fighting games that came out after Mortal Kombat first hit arcades. Almost all of them were instantly forgotten because they were made by people who don't know how to make a fighting game and thought all you need to make it successful was make it violent and gory.
Hi. I'm an author who had his debut book picked up about a year ago and I've been going through the editing and cover and others tuff phase for a while now. I remeber the work I had to pour into it. Staying up till 4 sometimes working on the same chapter over and over trying to be satisfied with it. Will it be the best in the world, no, it my debut after all amd i still have a lot to learn. But I'm proud of it amd the work I put into it. Amd that's why I love books even more now then ever cause I personally know the agony that is writing one and the joy that is seeing it come to life. Then this asshole comes along, steals work amd puts out a bad AI while screaming look how smart I am. It makes me mad, both for myself and for everyone out there who writes or wants to write. It makes me mad cause it's a spit in the face to the imaginations and hard work of authors and fans everywhere. Real passion and love for a craft will always be better then what a computer says is a mathematically perfect story and as far as I'm concerned the worst thing on fanfiction. Net is infinitely better then anything this guys ai can make cause I know one was made with fun amd passion while the other is some dudebro just clicking one button amd patting himself on the back.
Ps. DONT STEAL BOOKS! Total duche move
Tech bros don't understand that art isn't formulaic, it's an authentic form of self-expression. If you want to learn how to be a better writer just become a bookworm and learn holistically, there's no need to reduce writing to the number of words or adverbs. Like you said, STEM people need to take liberal arts/ethics classes and understand that just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
Its really great seeing well established to smaller authors speaking out against it, taking action, and the developer taking it down. It really just highlights how huge the visual art community is and how entitled people (AI tech simps) feel to visuals in general. This isnt to downplay this situation, its genuinly inspiring, but only a closer knit community like the writing community could do this. Artists could never do this, there are too many bad faith actors with in the community and even other artists (writer, musicians, etc.) have been using AI images. So many can recognize the copywrite within text, yet theyre so entitled to visual art. Frustrating.
I don’t want to live in the world we’re building right now
Like, so much of art already feels like it’s getting so… corporate. The stories that get popular and stay popular are the ones made by huge, rich companies that are scared of doing things unique and new because they want to get money as safely and easily as possible. But even those stories manage to have so much life behind them, even if they’re restrained a little by the need to make a profit. You know why? Because in the end, the art isn’t made by the corporations, it’s made by HUMANS. No matter how big and profitable a story is, no matter how huge the company behind it, there’s some writer, some artist, who genuinely loves what they’re creating and pours their soul into it.
If AI keeps improving, that’ll be the cheapest, easiest, safest ways for these big corporations to make stories that make money. And they won’t care about the quality. Hell, the consumers won’t care that much about quality either. How often do we really spend time critically analyzing the stories we consume unless it’s a story that is particularly special to us? So many of us are all just exhausted and losing hope and doing our best, and we just want to turn our brain off and enjoy a story sometimes. At least right now, every story we reach for will still have a human behind it, still have a soul behind it, and maybe we’ll find that one special story that lights up our heart again. Imagine if even that possibility is taken away. If all the content we consume is just a mess of stolen stories tossed into a blender, churned out into a meaningless slop of indistinguishable fragments with nothing at all behind it expect for a company’s desire for money. What a sad, grey, empty world that’ll be.
Art will always exist. Humans will never stop being creative. The point of art has never been the end product. People learn how to be creative because it’s an innate part of our souls to WANT to create, to express ourselves! So I’m not scared about art disappearing for good. I’m just scared that, when art becomes an easily accessible, meaningless AI slop, we’ll take art for granted, and the world will have a harder time remembering what the point of art even was in the first place.
I think AI is a scary threat to most jobs... I am an English teacher and can imagine in a few years kids sitting in front of a screen learning from an AI teacher in preference to a real flesh and blood one... I don't think there will be many jobs, which are immune...I have a friend retraining to be a librarian as her job as a copywriter was taken over by AI.
Hey, congrats! on the new place - I hope you enjoy it and are very productive there.
Thank you! Will do!
Cindy can never really disappoint ✨💕 she’s the best
🥺 UR the best
I always wonder why techbros keep trying to innovate in creative spaces. I feel like they could do more focusing on sciences and maths. Why are they so obsessed with creatives? Lol anyway. Loved your insight on this! Would also love to hear your two cents on the author of Manic Pixie Egirl if you feel up to it!
Because they so desperately want to be thought of as creative. Although that may just be kicking the can down the road, because I can't tell you *why* that's so important to them.
because they're not smart enough to master science and math, yet don’t possess the empathy to understand the value of art, so art is 'much easier' to them as long as they have the 'right tools'
i really wish there was a way to create some type of digital name tag that links creative content to the creators, so that when it is copied it can easily be retrieved and/or taken down, because the lengths people are going to just to plagiarise other people’s hard work is crazzyy. also, cindy, i just realised you and i have the same glasses and haircut 😂
This would be hell. What we need is legislation. Remember that copyright laws stifle creativity (but computers are not creative).
The only ai book i’ll ever read is “harry potter and the portrait of what looked like a large pile of ash”
I can understand why people want to use AI to generate visual art (as long as they use public domain pictures), because it's faster and can be randomly generated for artists to use as ideas and references. Besides, people usually look at pretty pictures for several seconds before moving on and forget about it, but for writing? Literature is so nuance and complicated (at least for me). One word can change the whole meaning of a line. The way you write a paragraph can affect the mood of that scene. Dialouges are complex and need to be distinguisable since you can't tell who is who based on just on what they say. Not to mention, how you sctructure your story and how well-developed your plot have signicficant impacts.
Im so tired of techbros, I saw this go down on twitter, and everyone sh*tting on him and it was great. Thought I did unfortunately see people defend him and talk about how entitled writers are or like "gatekeeping" and stuff 💀. Im glad you made a video about this
Writers aren’t gatekeeping at all, anyone can write! It’s just takes hard work and practice, which is what AI bros don’t wanna do.
As a nonwhite man, I’m offended that Cindy keeps pointing out that the bad actors are white men when we all know it is the fact that they are men, regardless of race, that is driving the bad behavior. Tsk Tsk Cindy 😂
Reading this was a rollercoaster of emotions lol😂🙌
Based
Exactly 😭
Not exactly. *white* men specifically often believe they are above not just institutional rules or social rules, but actual laws. That magnitude of arrogance does not really happen with men from other demographics. Unfortunately, the legal system does actually tend to treat them with kid gloves: although believing yourself completely above the law is in fact still stupid, even if you're a white cishet man.
I mean, it's rich people. I don't want to be the "it's not all men" guy, but it's rich people.
as someone in university for computer science and a hobbyist artist the lack of respect for creatives the current ai space has is so disheartening. the creative process isn’t a problem to be fixed