Could the Xindi attack possibly account for why Dr. M'Binga is the Chief Medical Officer on Pike's Enterprise in Strange New Worlds instead of Dr. Phil Boyce? Maybe his parents were killed in the attack so he was never born?
Yeah well, there is a problem with time travel you know? ... it never happened. They say afterwards (the time travelers, not me :P). Also: "afterwards" has no meaning ... hehehe Thanks for the video!
14:11 Ahh, I love the Andorians. You can say whatever you want about Enterprise, but the one thing you can't argue is how great the character of Shran was. He's probably too old now, but I would have loved an entire series based around Shran if combs took up the role again. He played the part so good.
Shran is awesome, they should... Reanimate him. And the best retcon ever, Klingon Ridges, second only to Vulcan Emotionlessness being retconned to a religious thing.
I've always just interpreted the "long bloody war" line regarding the Klingons as referring to the general hostility that existed and battles that frequently happened from first contact until the events of Star Trek VI and, later, Yesterday's Enterprise.
I still think the various worlds identical to Earth seen in *_ST:TOS_* which were supposedly planets of distant stars were actually alternate timelines of Earth. Their being supposedly the result of "convergent development" was a flimsy cover story to disguise frequent use of the *_Enterprise_* for "off the books" time travel missions. I'd like to see an entire TV series devoted to the DTI: *_Star Trek: Department of Temporal Investigations._*
God I love Entpeprise. They would have covered the Romulan War in season 5 and the impact of the temporal cold War could have given them room to change things up with that conflict
Enterprise was the comfiest Trek series imo, something about it just felt cozy to fall asleep to every night after a long day of work. Dr. Phlox aided that ambience more than any other I think, I really adored that character and the actor who played him.
@@brap6557 Sadly Kellie Waymire died mid production, she was great and would have made a interesting male-female friendship (Crewman Elizabeth Cutler Dr. Phlox's friend, who wants to be his friend, nothing more). Her character was how you write strong female characters.
I also felt that first Contact was a result of the prime timeline seemingly being altered. Like how Enterprise found a frozen Borg. But also Allison Pill's character changed everything with the Borg. It all has helped me settle down about canon. Though it still bugs me at times.
I'd love to see a series set in the temporal cold war, following a federation crew as they time travel to different eras to fix and prevent changes to the timeline.
Hi Tyler, you are two days early! Now I have the feeling that my weekend started, but it didnt. I will keep this video in store and enjoy it friday! But I always enjoy watching you and your work!
You always have such an interesting way of looking at things. I generally find Time travel stories and alternate timelines interesting. Sometimes these events can be caused by significant change, sometimes a drop can change the ocean. You've been doing some great videos lately.
I am SO GLAD to see an explanation for the vast technological difference between 60 through 90s Star Trek and the streaming service Trek. I love them both, but have great difficulty reconcilign them as being the same continuity. An explainable difference helps me, and makes me sound less like a hater.
The war Picard was referring to in "First Contact" I believe was a war between the Klingons and the VULCANS, starting at Vulcan-Klingon first contact at H'atoria in 2016 (as described in DSC). There's plenty of years in there for a decades-long war.
My work schedule didn't allow me to watch Enterprise. And TBH with all the smack everybody was talking about it I didn't think I was missing much. But watching episodes like this one has me rethinking that position. Maybe it's time to find a DVD/Blu-ray Boxset. I enjoyed these endeavors of yours that much.
Oh, you've definitely got to give it a try! It's got some problems for sure, but seeing the fanbase sort of redeem it in hindsight is nice to see, because I do think it's underrated. Glad you liked the video!
So, do you think that Daniels was telling the truth to Archer when he said history had not recorded so many of these events, or was he lying to further motivate Archer to preserve his own history?
The truth! All of the (meaningful) instance of posterior time-travel compounded upon themselves in stereo to cause ever more convoluted "rivers of time" to supplant the erethens*. Taken as a whole, though, the group of ever-existing "rivers of time" constitute the Prime Timeline. Though, perhaps I'm mistaken; if there's something illogical about this interpretation, then I'm perfectly willing to scrap it. *Erethen: ere + then; not a typo for, "earthen"
Having watch Star Trek since it first aired, I've always assumed that every time there has been a time travel episode, that little things were changed in the timeline and that over time these changed add up. In the episode of TOS Tomorrow is Yesterday, when the Enterprise goes back in time for the first time, they end the show with everything being reset. But, Just the fact that the USAF sent a fighter up to check out the UFO/UAP changed history in small ways. What were the ripple effects. Small things that add up, someone could have missed a diner/date that was meant to go differently, which lead to other small changes that build. Just the date idea, could have stopped people from getting together and stopped someone from being born, who was supposed to save the life of someone else, etc, etc.
I’d say that the butterfly effect is overrated and that most incidental temporal changes ‘smooth out’ the further a timeline proceeds from that incident.
My head canon states that the Federation only exists because members of Starfleet keep going back in time leaving gifts of technology and philosophy. The entire Prime Timeline therefore would be a divergent one.
yup the ripple effect or the butterfly effect. Something is always changed. Also anyone remember the nacelles look different than the original tos episodes. I think during first contact, the nacelles were slightly changed by geordi for the flight. The same type of nacelles are now present on the enterprise NX-01 and the uss enterprise in pike's show, which is slightly different than what we saw in TOS's enterprise's nacelles
I agree there must be millions of changes made possible from every alteration of TIME but does it matter if the MULTI-VERSE doesn't care ? It's like even large deliberate changes to a TIME line are but little whirlpools in an ocean that is unaltered in its grandeur and purpose.
You certainly know your stuff, and the serious nature of the way you explain things in a factual basis is very refreshing. Thanks for making these videos 🖖
If you take a non-linear view of time in regards to the Trek universe, you could see Enterprise as a sequel to Voyager that just happens to take place in the past. Since VOY introduced time-traveling Starfleet officers and those themes carried over to ENT with the Temporal Cold War.
@FN-1701AgentGodzillaRangerPrime Ω Makes as much sense as anything else in the franchise. People get upset about inconsistencies in the timeline when there's a whole goddamn cold war centered around fucking with the past.
@GodzillaBoyNY Enterprise is totally compatible with TOS visually. They even encounter a TOS ship in that mirror universe episode. The set design of Enterprise was meant be a bridge between present day early 2000s and TOS
Replicators are definitely a topic that deserves a video on this channel! I've taken a crack at them before and found them more challenging than I'd previously thought, but as always, I'll continue to keep trying ;)
Oh god no ... nonono. I've delved into the Temporal War lore before and it gave me so many headaches. I knew I would be back here eventually. I mean, I saw my future self. But I thought ... there was more time...
I think the future Federation might just be fans of what Douglas Adams called The Campaign for Real Time as a result of the pollution of the time line via time travelers. The novels do go into explaining temporal shielding to prevent interference in past events.
In TOS, I always imagined photon torpedoes as pure energy weapons. For me, they degraded them with they made them into actual torpedoes, which of course they have never looked like (this would be like saying a bullet fired from a revolver looks like a fireball).
Regarding point number 6, that Starfleet explored the Delphic expanse earlier - given how few exploration capable ships they had at the time that would've also had a huge impact from the other end, places that they should've explored but didn't get to because they had to go deal with the Xindi. There's no telling how many events and first contact that were supposed to happen didn't because Enterprise wasn't there to do all those things.
You just keep knocking it out if the park! These meta-series discussions are what I’ve always wanted to see but most fan analysis is greatly lacking. Not this channel though!
Agreed, this channel is a breath of fresh air. There are lots of other Trek oriented channels out there but a lot of them are just treading the same water over and over. This guy clearly puts a lot of effort into having a distinct and well thought out take everytime.
I think it's interesting, but I kind of like the idea presented in the novels that Future Guy is actually an alien! I talk about Future Guy some more in this video: ruclips.net/video/w5wHj5CsTS4/видео.html
I think Enterprise's first contact with Klingons could have led to a war but at the same time, Discovery just retcons itself by saying it was first contact when the Federation knew and meet Klingons before in flashbacks and talks from Discovery. Technically it would have been first contact with the Federation and not humanity itself. Which I guess was the point?
All this could be explained simply. DANIELS IS LYING. At least some of the stuff he told Archer wasn't true. When he said "this wasn't supposed to happen in history" it wasn't true. He just lied for who knows what reason. I never trusted him anyways. The stuff he said didn't add up. Also we saw him die in his first appearance, all the other appearances might have been an imposter pretending to be him.
I’ve always had a theory about this. Basically everything that has changed in trek (especially visually) is all a result of the events of First Contact. Picard and Crews interactions and contamination of the most important person in Earth History MUST have had unforeseen consequences. Enterprise even proves this with their Borg episode. Basically everything filmed after FC takes place in this altered prime universe. PIC S1 even strengthens that theory by showing the hologram of the DSC/SNW version of the Original Enterprise at starfleet command. By the time the TNG era comes around, enough stayed the same for them to probably not notice the differences right away as it was far enough in the future that the timeline wrinkles basically were ironed out by then (mostly) Had The changes in FC not happened, the NX and all early ships would have looked more TOS like and would have led directly to what we see in TOS, but since it’s changed we now get the new DSC/SNW aesthetic and differences.
Honestly speaking, Discovery should have gone down the Temporal War route at the end of season 2. Long story short, the ship and her crew would have been captured by one of the Temporal factions as they traveled forward in time. Most likely by "Future Guy" from ST Enterprise Eventually, they would be rescued by the Federation/Daniels group and pressed into service. Each episode, they'd go into different Trek eras i.e. Enterprise to post Nemesis defending the timeline. Ultimately concluding at the Battle of Procyon V in the series finale.
@@subraxas Yeah. Imagine, Timeship Discovery equipped with multispectral emitters that allow it to assume the appearance of ships from whatever particular era it's assigned to.
you missed the fact that humans and vulcans begun to actually trust each other and actually become allies. who knows how long that would have taken in the original timeline I think it's in the hundreds of years.
I think that the Romulan War would act as a unifying threat in most timelines where it occurs, but the accelerated cooperation between Earth and Andoria could be applied to other species, sure
Thank you for this interesting in depth video! I've been rewatching Voyager lately, but I may have to watch some Enterprise again soon. I enjoyed the sort of ambivalent relationships with some of the Vulcan, Andoria,, Suliban, and Xindi characters throughout the show's seasons. Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you, friends. ✝️ :)
Thank you for this video! I have commented numerous times elsewhere how the Temporal Cold War explains the apparent advances in Star Fleet technology seen in Discovery and now also in SNW. I even predicted that the USS Enterprise as depicted in Discovery would more closely resemble the refit Enterprise from the TOS movies. The added flared-out nacelle pylon does suggest such a resemblance. Even the uniforms on the SNW Enterprise are introduced more than a decade earlier than in TOS. Unfortunately, the current showrunners/gatekeepers can't see a solution to the "what is canon" dilemma that's staring them in the face.
I don't think the timeline has been the same since the almost simultaneous event of "First Contact" and "Future's End"(VOY). As for "Enterprise", I don't try to trace any particular change to the timeline to any particular event in the series. I just kind of regard the show as a "black box". This was the timeline pre-Enterprise, this is the timeline post-Enterprise.
I’m convinced that the events of Star Trek: First Contact created the Kelvin Universe, and the red matter event at the start of JJ Abrams just exacerbated the situation.
Let's not forget that Future Guy was also meant to turn out to be _Archer_ originally, something we get a strong hint of when Archer is in the future and needs a way to get back, so creating a rudimentary device, is able to use the Suliban Time-Communicator in order to get back into the past. Not to mention that when Archer is brought to the future, the Suliban is unable to contact future guy, which obviously is because Archer was taken out of the timeline. I am one of those who firmly believe that the Temporal Cold War resulted in the creation of Discovery era-of-events as well as Strange New Worlds. It is the only way to describe the changes to technology and other stuff. Perhaps we should stop calling it the Prime Timeline and rather just call it the TOS Timeline since that really would fit everything up to Voyager in it. Just as we call JJ Trek the Kelvin Timeline, though I suppose then Enterprise - Discovery - SNW - Picard, would be the Enterprise timeline as opposed to the Discovery Timeline.. The Enterprise novels that isn't a retelling of an episode are great! Highly recommended reading.
Could the Sphere Builders have made the Dyson Sphere that was discovered in "The Next Generation" episode of "Relics" (the one where Scotty was discovered inside of a crashed ship with his and another crew member being cycled through the transporter)?
Dude, I love what you're doing! Great research, fantastic, orderly presentation! Could you spice up the delivery a bit, though? Get as excited as we are about Star Trek? You have a very professorial delivery; you'd be a whiz at narrating sleep aid tapes.
It might be best to ignore all things Kurtzman Trek. It would certainly make these videos considerably more enjoyable! Not that I don’t enjoy them, but Kurtzman Trek is not connected to the any of the original Star Trek properties, and I know I’m far from alone in feeling that way. I suspect at some point in the future all of the damage that Kurtzman has done will be swept aside when someone who actually cares about Star Trek comes along to right the ship.
Think we have to acknowledge the fact that the NX-01 was launched early as a result of Klang landing on earth (trying to undo the temporal agents' work at causing civil war) so the timeline was charged from the moment episode 1 aired - that should clear up any cannon violation going forward as its an altered timeline
I‘d really like to know how the current showrunners of Star Trek see and treat this issue - like: Did the Temporal Cold War actually change the timeline we knew from TOS, TNG etc., or was this all a „predestination paradox“, meaning it was all a time loop to begin with, since the 31st century was already TOS‘s future and thus the Temporal Cold War was TOS‘s past?
Enterprise got cancelled partially because of the hate, like overwhelming at the time.. now people are going back and talking about how great it is.... can we just agree to "enjoy the ride" next time so hardcore fans don't miss out...
To the question of a alternate universe no, but a different time line culminating from the events of first contact, Picard and crew not cleaning up after the fight with the Borg. That changed the time line. I would call this the butterfly effect. The ripples from said battle in earths past effected more than we probably can understand, you can see from the T.O.S. how much larger the Enterprise is in Discovery and inn strange new worlds.
Personally, I think the full "banning" of time travel was less something agreed upon, and more that the Burn kind of played enough of a wrecking ball that there wasn't a real way to go through time.
I have said that the timeline was altered by ENT since I first saw it, although I go one further and say ENT itself is a timeline altered by the events of First Contact, which is why so much of ENT (and all shows/films that follow) doesn't fit with what we previously knew about Trek's past. (And nicely explains why Riker and Troi from These Are the Voyages... are quite the same versions from The Pegasus [notably older, references to that latter episodes that don't fit, etc].)
See... if Daniels didn't Deputize Archer... all of those factions would have had Captain Janeway showing up when they tried to do temporal stuff to humans Daniels logic is, "dood... I don't want Janeway anywhere near me. We tell stories to our children of the Janeway boogeyman. Because the children are not ready to handle the truth of how extremely worse Janeway showing up on your doorstep actually is. Anything I can do... to not have her show up at ANY incident designed to remove humans from this... anything!"
Thank you for explaining some of this. I saw the first half of a two part story on Star Trek Enterprise and couldn't follow what was going on. No wonder I was lost, there was much more to this than I knew. I understand some of it a little better now but I'm not that smart all this Star Trek stuff although I've been a fan since the original show. Thank you for a great video on all this.
@@subraxas growing up we visited my grandparents every year, when I first heard the showtune Oklahoma, I couldn't understand the line "where the wind comes sweeping though the plains"... I had never seen flat ground in that state. Lol
There's one thing that has always puzzled me about the first episode. Is it "Broken Bow" like "Bow and Arrow" or is it "Broken Bow" like the bow of a ship? I always read it as the latter.
More to the point it is not just the 7 million people who have been prevented from contributing to the time line, it is their descendents and how everyone interacts. This means even the people who were not descended from them will have different social interactions and maybe even find different partners to form families with. To the point that TOS, TNG et all could not likely have the same human characters in full because the butterfly effect would be massive. It would also mean different people would exist in other species as well the further forward from the point you go. Effectively you can conclude there is no true time line in Trek as every interaction adjusts it. Even the fact we continue producing new Star Trek requires us to retcon it as we get nearer established events. This is to keep it relevant to our future time line.
I highly recommend reading David (Tribble) Gerrold's 'The Man Who Folded Himself'. From a 3rd person perspective, once you go back in time, your original timeline is lost forever. It's a hard concept to wrap your head around but the Star Trek: Enterprise show is not from the TOS universe. In the TOS universe, the temporal wars never happened and NX-01 didn't encounter many of the things it did as depicted in Enterprise. Enterprise, the show, is the altered timeline with interference from the future.
Love the Star trek Vids. My concern with changing timelines and retconning ideas is that it ruins established lore. I lost a lot of my interest in Trek after TNG, voyager and DS9. I was wondering if you will you ever get into Stargate? I think it's a goldmine when it comes to sci-fi content.
I tend to view Trek as existing in a static timeline due to the established presence of time loops. However, if altering the past is indeed possible then the list in this vid would change things MASSIVELY! Yeah, Daniels gave that fancy light show to Archer after "Stormfront 2" and claimed that the timelines were correcting themselves but that was clearly more lies, as Trip's dead sister can testify.
Keep going down the rabbit hole - in many ways the original show introduced the Temporal War, and that story is developed slowly through all series from start to this day.
Hi! Thanks for the explaination. Honestly, I'm sick of how the Star Trek writers of today ignore canon and then explain it with different timelines or alternate universes or whatsoever, of pequels that look more modern than the sequels and evens of the prequels who have no effect to the later time although they should. Why on earth are they so focused on prequels? "The Orville" is showing that it's still possible to create episodes for a future after "The Next Generation". As far as I know, the only ST canon is ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. Everything else is just a labeled to be Star Trek, but is something different.
I always wondered, what effects the Temporal Cold War and the war with the Xindi had on the formation of Sektion 31. I would imagine they probably gained way more power and ressources than they originaly had, which than enabled Sektion 31 to build a more powerful and problematic Control...
Uhhgh,stop it with Sektion 31! It is a fun thing to have once or twice a show, not enough to build a whole show around. Mark my words, if they make a show around “Sektion 31” it will… 1. Muck up Star Trek 2. Fail horribly Leave it as it is, something we trek fans can wonder about and have lots of “ head canon” about.
16:23 - "The Temporal Cold War temporarily turns hot when another faction, the Na'kuhl..." Fantastic play on words. I can't believe no one has mentioned it. "Na'kuhl" (Not cool) :chefs kiss:
Enterprise had a LOT of canon fertile ground to explore. But, instead, they did the temporal cold war, invented the expanse issue as well as the Xindi, and did whatever it could to avoid very interesting canon of the time for great stories. But, hey, they did a great job at making Klingons of TOS to TNG and after be the same species and biology! Kudos to them for that. They did a great job as to making an alternate universe, the most popular one, a great technologically advanced one. Kudos to them for that. However, they did that as a big downplay to the established canon universe and thus gave a lot of room for later writers to give the big middle-finger to established canon as a past-timeline rewright that... after some rights purchases, allowed ST:D to become canon as the biggest middle finger to all of the Star Trek established fictional universe by them saying it was primary universe canon... which is more of a cluster-f^ck than any comic book series rewriting of its past that people who know the original source as life-long fans already knew. It's not the Marvel nor DC multiverse nor a Star Trek alternate reality they did... they crammed that big square peg into a small round hole and just said that's where it fits, thus saying everything that just fit through that hole is sh^t. ST:D (STD Star Trek, Discovery, the STD insult does apply) is far more canon-breaking than anything ever, even the movies, just by the whole cramming their crap into being the base behind TOS. ST:E did some damage to canon, true. That meant it was deviating from canon, the original timeline, not creating it. That was totally cool. The boggle, the ruining, was pretending the later creations were OG canon and were always part of the OG timeline... that's far less stable and fundamental than the chaotic platform that barely had a base itself while giving it a total middle-finger that was beloved and told post-ST:D era in previous canon after those that purchased Star Trek declared that their crap was OG timeline canon. Big square peg jammed through a tiny round hole while claiming it fits.
Also anyone remember the nacelles look different than the original tos episodes. I think during first contact, the nacelles were slightly changed by geordi for the flight. The same type of nacelles are now present on the enterprise NX-01 and the uss enterprise in pike's show, which is slightly different than what we saw in TOS's enterprise's nacelles
I had thought they would use the Temporal Cold War to explain away the differences between this show and The Original Series, and it is the fan theory to explain why Discovery Era Trek is so different (instead of, you know....Bad Writers Who Don't Care About TOS,TNG or anything that came before 9_9)
I love your video, and liked your detailed analysis very much. Personally, I agree with all of it; but, at least for me, there was a previous event to the Temporal Cold War that caused the original split of the Prime Timeline: the incursion of the Enterprise-E to the past in "First Contact". Not only they mentioned it (kinda) on Enterprise, but I also think that having Cochrane saw the Enterprise on orbit made him a little more ambitious with his designs, accelerating, as you mention it, the technological development with the Warp 5 project. Having the NX-01 being the first Enterprise instead of the Declaration-class (of clearly Vulcan inspiration) seen on ST:TMP display panel on the rec lounge is a heavy hint for me. All you described on your video is, for me, the "Phoenix Timeline". I'll be delighted to hear your thoughts on this.
I personally view the events of First Contact as forming the basis of a causality loop / predestination paradox. Seven of Nine says so in an episode of Voyager. As for the NX-01 not being present on display in TMP, I kind of handwave that as a real-world production thing rather than worrying as much about an in-universe explanation (though in one of the novels, the author explains that in-universe the NX-01 was omitted by mistake!)
I just think Daniels and the Temporal Starfleet appeared to be severely incompetent. The loss of 7 million lives, The destruction of an entire mining colony, all the deviations from Enterprise's original mission, the Xindi Conflict. They stopped the adversaries from destroying Earth and ensured the formation of the Federation, but that's odd that that seemed to be the only goal. If time has been changed this drastically, you'd think great effort would be taken to fix these disruptions to it, no matter how long it took. It apparently took Annorax and the Krenim over two centuries to restore their imperium to 99.9% of what it was. In comparison to how messed up the timeline became in the 22nd Century, I'd be surprised if the timeline was even 60% fixed.
Click on the link and download the official Star Trek Game: sttlink.onelink.me/Z8Hp/ytsf
This time they only reviewed the sponsored segment(s) themselves as opposed to the whole video ;)
Could the Xindi attack possibly account for why Dr. M'Binga is the Chief Medical Officer on Pike's Enterprise in Strange New Worlds instead of Dr. Phil Boyce? Maybe his parents were killed in the attack so he was never born?
Do a video on the Vorlons from Babylon 5
Yeah well, there is a problem with time travel you know?
... it never happened. They say afterwards (the time travelers, not me :P). Also: "afterwards" has no meaning ... hehehe
Thanks for the video!
It's that time again
14:11 Ahh, I love the Andorians. You can say whatever you want about Enterprise, but the one thing you can't argue is how great the character of Shran was. He's probably too old now, but I would have loved an entire series based around Shran if combs took up the role again. He played the part so good.
All his roles was brillant like liqidator brunt and wheun
@@tusselina91 Agreed. But Shran is second to none.
@@TheTonyMcD definefly
Yes! Definitely am a fan!
It's get that there are others
Shran is awesome, they should... Reanimate him. And the best retcon ever, Klingon Ridges, second only to Vulcan Emotionlessness being retconned to a religious thing.
You can fit so much NETWORK in this bad boy *slaps the table*
I've always just interpreted the "long bloody war" line regarding the Klingons as referring to the general hostility that existed and battles that frequently happened from first contact until the events of Star Trek VI and, later, Yesterday's Enterprise.
Awesome video. Enterprise doesn't get the love it deserves...the Cold War arc for sure.
I still think the various worlds identical to Earth seen in *_ST:TOS_* which were supposedly planets of distant stars were actually alternate timelines of Earth. Their being supposedly the result of "convergent development" was a flimsy cover story to disguise frequent use of the *_Enterprise_* for "off the books" time travel missions.
I'd like to see an entire TV series devoted to the DTI: *_Star Trek: Department of Temporal Investigations._*
God I love Entpeprise. They would have covered the Romulan War in season 5 and the impact of the temporal cold War could have given them room to change things up with that conflict
Enterprise was the comfiest Trek series imo, something about it just felt cozy to fall asleep to every night after a long day of work.
Dr. Phlox aided that ambience more than any other I think, I really adored that character and the actor who played him.
@@brap6557 yeah Phlox is the goat
Goats? For goats we definitely go with Alaimo's Dukat.
@@brap6557 Sadly Kellie Waymire died mid production, she was great and would have made a interesting male-female friendship (Crewman Elizabeth Cutler Dr. Phlox's friend, who wants to be his friend, nothing more). Her character was how you write strong female characters.
Compared to STD it's Shakespearean.
I liked that you included a summary at the end of the video. Helped keep everything in perspective.
I also felt that first Contact was a result of the prime timeline seemingly being altered. Like how Enterprise found a frozen Borg.
But also Allison Pill's character changed everything with the Borg.
It all has helped me settle down about canon. Though it still bugs me at times.
Yep, and the reference to Porthos in the first of the Kelvin movies ties it to that...though you still have the entire mess of the last episode.
Yeah... This is definitely a topic for an extended series. Time travel always mucks things up.😆
🖖🏻
I'd love to see a series set in the temporal cold war, following a federation crew as they time travel to different eras to fix and prevent changes to the timeline.
You just keep batting these out of the park. Sisco would be jealous.
Blows my mind that this channel only has like 34k subscribers. Great content, keep at it. Only a matter of time until this channel blows up
Thanks Connor! I started growing after I began uploading more often last year, so hopefully the trend will continue!
Hi Tyler, you are two days early! Now I have the feeling that my weekend started, but it didnt. I will keep this video in store and enjoy it friday! But I always enjoy watching you and your work!
Haha, sounds good! Thank you Jasper!
Yes this confused me greatly like 'whats happened to the timeline' 😂🖖
You always have such an interesting way of looking at things. I generally find Time travel stories and alternate timelines interesting. Sometimes these events can be caused by significant change, sometimes a drop can change the ocean. You've been doing some great videos lately.
I am SO GLAD to see an explanation for the vast technological difference between 60 through 90s Star Trek and the streaming service Trek. I love them both, but have great difficulty reconcilign them as being the same continuity. An explainable difference helps me, and makes me sound less like a hater.
The war Picard was referring to in "First Contact" I believe was a war between the Klingons and the VULCANS, starting at Vulcan-Klingon first contact at H'atoria in 2016 (as described in DSC). There's plenty of years in there for a decades-long war.
My work schedule didn't allow me to watch Enterprise. And TBH with all the smack everybody was talking about it I didn't think I was missing much. But watching episodes like this one has me rethinking that position. Maybe it's time to find a DVD/Blu-ray Boxset. I enjoyed these endeavors of yours that much.
Oh, you've definitely got to give it a try! It's got some problems for sure, but seeing the fanbase sort of redeem it in hindsight is nice to see, because I do think it's underrated. Glad you liked the video!
Free paramount plus for a month. Binge it. Great show that got cancelled as it was hitting it's stride
So, do you think that Daniels was telling the truth to Archer when he said history had not recorded so many of these events, or was he lying to further motivate Archer to preserve his own history?
Didn't he also say that the NX-01 was meant to be destroyed at some point during season1?
So i'd say he was mostly telling the truth. Mostly.
Daniels was probably playing his cards close to his chest, mostly telling the truth but leaving out crucial bits. So not exactly lying outright.
Daniels lied
The truth! All of the (meaningful) instance of posterior time-travel compounded upon themselves in stereo to cause ever more convoluted "rivers of time" to supplant the erethens*. Taken as a whole, though, the group of ever-existing "rivers of time" constitute the Prime Timeline. Though, perhaps I'm mistaken; if there's something illogical about this interpretation, then I'm perfectly willing to scrap it.
*Erethen: ere + then; not a typo for, "earthen"
We won't know what the writers had in their minds 😔
Having watch Star Trek since it first aired, I've always assumed that every time there has been a time travel episode, that little things were changed in the timeline and that over time these changed add up. In the episode of TOS Tomorrow is Yesterday, when the Enterprise goes back in time for the first time, they end the show with everything being reset. But, Just the fact that the USAF sent a fighter up to check out the UFO/UAP changed history in small ways. What were the ripple effects. Small things that add up, someone could have missed a diner/date that was meant to go differently, which lead to other small changes that build. Just the date idea, could have stopped people from getting together and stopped someone from being born, who was supposed to save the life of someone else, etc, etc.
I’d say that the butterfly effect is overrated and that most incidental temporal changes ‘smooth out’ the further a timeline proceeds from that incident.
My head canon states that the Federation only exists because members of Starfleet keep going back in time leaving gifts of technology and philosophy. The entire Prime Timeline therefore would be a divergent one.
yup the ripple effect or the butterfly effect. Something is always changed. Also anyone remember the nacelles look different than the original tos episodes. I think during first contact, the nacelles were slightly changed by geordi for the flight. The same type of nacelles are now present on the enterprise NX-01 and the uss enterprise in pike's show, which is slightly different than what we saw in TOS's enterprise's nacelles
I agree there must be millions of changes made possible from every alteration of TIME but does it matter if the MULTI-VERSE doesn't care ? It's like even large deliberate changes to a TIME line are but little whirlpools in an ocean that is unaltered in its grandeur and purpose.
Scotty telling the 1980’s technician how to make transparent aluminum must have changed some things technologically.
Ooh ... love being early! Been thinking about the different timeliness and temporal war recently too! Gonna enjoy this one!
You’re my new favorite Trek channel on youtube, keep it up man I can only see this channel growing even more in the future
Thank you!
Seriously, this guy slaps!
@@discobolos4227 AM SEEING IT NOW!!! MYCELIAL NETWORK 😂🖖
You never disappoint. You always bite off difficult subjects…👍
You certainly know your stuff, and the serious nature of the way you explain things in a factual basis is very refreshing.
Thanks for making these videos 🖖
thanks for the video, congratulations on the thematically appropriate sponsor
I love videos like this. The Temporal Cold War was the only reason I kept watching Enterprise.
Another great video Tyler well done. I have been playing Star Trek Timelines on and off now for about 5 or 6 years for free through Facebook lol.
If you take a non-linear view of time in regards to the Trek universe, you could see Enterprise as a sequel to Voyager that just happens to take place in the past. Since VOY introduced time-traveling Starfleet officers and those themes carried over to ENT with the Temporal Cold War.
Voyager time travel is why the microchip boom happened in our history and of course all series that acknowledge such tech development.
TOS introduced time traveling officers with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
@FN-1701AgentGodzillaRangerPrime Ω Makes as much sense as anything else in the franchise. People get upset about inconsistencies in the timeline when there's a whole goddamn cold war centered around fucking with the past.
@GodzillaBoyNY Enterprise is totally compatible with TOS visually. They even encounter a TOS ship in that mirror universe episode.
The set design of Enterprise was meant be a bridge between present day early 2000s and TOS
4:04 Klaang is a god in Space Engineers.
@@subraxas Just trying to make a joke, in SE it is spelled Klang or Clang.
Well done as always Tyler. I'm looking forward to future videos on this topic.🖖
Thank you Kevin!
Enterprise was cut short too early. There were many questions without answers.
Please could you make a video about the Replicator technology from Star Trek thank you
Replicators are definitely a topic that deserves a video on this channel! I've taken a crack at them before and found them more challenging than I'd previously thought, but as always, I'll continue to keep trying ;)
@@OrangeRiver thank you you are awesome please never give up🖖🏻
Oh god no ... nonono. I've delved into the Temporal War lore before and it gave me so many headaches. I knew I would be back here eventually. I mean, I saw my future self. But I thought ... there was more time...
I think the future Federation might just be fans of what Douglas Adams called The Campaign for Real Time as a result of the pollution of the time line via time travelers. The novels do go into explaining temporal shielding to prevent interference in past events.
Great video, as always! Thanks!
In TOS, I always imagined photon torpedoes as pure energy weapons. For me, they degraded them with they made them into actual torpedoes, which of course they have never looked like (this would be like saying a bullet fired from a revolver looks like a fireball).
14:12 That edit will always be one of my absolute favorite intros in Trek. Shran’s antennae overlayed against Archer’s head. [chef’s kiss]
Regarding point number 6, that Starfleet explored the Delphic expanse earlier - given how few exploration capable ships they had at the time that would've also had a huge impact from the other end, places that they should've explored but didn't get to because they had to go deal with the Xindi. There's no telling how many events and first contact that were supposed to happen didn't because Enterprise wasn't there to do all those things.
I nolonger know what timeline I'm watching when I watch any of the shows. That means you've done a great job.
You just keep knocking it out if the park! These meta-series discussions are what I’ve always wanted to see but most fan analysis is greatly lacking. Not this channel though!
Agreed, this channel is a breath of fresh air. There are lots of other Trek oriented channels out there but a lot of them are just treading the same water over and over. This guy clearly puts a lot of effort into having a distinct and well thought out take everytime.
@@brap6557 Agree 100%
Thank you for doing this one. Usually love the videos you do. I love time travel stuff and Star Trek.
Thanks. Great video.
What do you think of the rumor that the Suliban ‘benefactor’ from the future was intended to be a future version of Captain Archer?
I think it's interesting, but I kind of like the idea presented in the novels that Future Guy is actually an alien! I talk about Future Guy some more in this video: ruclips.net/video/w5wHj5CsTS4/видео.html
I think Enterprise's first contact with Klingons could have led to a war but at the same time, Discovery just retcons itself by saying it was first contact when the Federation knew and meet Klingons before in flashbacks and talks from Discovery.
Technically it would have been first contact with the Federation and not humanity itself. Which I guess was the point?
great video as usual. thank you :)
All this could be explained simply. DANIELS IS LYING. At least some of the stuff he told Archer wasn't true. When he said "this wasn't supposed to happen in history" it wasn't true. He just lied for who knows what reason. I never trusted him anyways. The stuff he said didn't add up. Also we saw him die in his first appearance, all the other appearances might have been an imposter pretending to be him.
I’ve always had a theory about this. Basically everything that has changed in trek (especially visually) is all a result of the events of First Contact.
Picard and Crews interactions and contamination of the most important person in Earth History MUST have had unforeseen consequences. Enterprise even proves this with their Borg episode.
Basically everything filmed after FC takes place in this altered prime universe.
PIC S1 even strengthens that theory by showing the hologram of the DSC/SNW version of the Original Enterprise at starfleet command.
By the time the TNG era comes around, enough stayed the same for them to probably not notice the differences right away as it was far enough in the future that the timeline wrinkles basically were ironed out by then (mostly)
Had The changes in FC not happened, the NX and all early ships would have looked more TOS like and would have led directly to what we see in TOS, but since it’s changed we now get the new DSC/SNW aesthetic and differences.
And Captain Braxton crashing on earth in the 60s, accidentally advancing our computer tech by several decades.
@@Zahgurym I think that was a true pre destination paradox. Without that happening, we get nothing.
@@VZ.studios "I hate temporal mechanics."
Honestly speaking, Discovery should have gone down the Temporal War route at the end of season 2.
Long story short, the ship and her crew would have been captured by one of the Temporal factions as they traveled forward in time. Most likely by "Future Guy" from ST Enterprise
Eventually, they would be rescued by the Federation/Daniels group and pressed into service.
Each episode, they'd go into different Trek eras i.e. Enterprise to post Nemesis defending the timeline.
Ultimately concluding at the Battle of Procyon V in the series finale.
@@subraxas
Yeah. Imagine, Timeship Discovery equipped with multispectral emitters that allow it to assume the appearance of ships from whatever particular era it's assigned to.
"Broken bow" You pronounced it as bow and arrow, I pronounced it as a ships bow. Spelled the same but sounds different.
you missed the fact that humans and vulcans begun to actually trust each other and actually become allies.
who knows how long that would have taken in the original timeline I think it's in the hundreds of years.
I think that the Romulan War would act as a unifying threat in most timelines where it occurs, but the accelerated cooperation between Earth and Andoria could be applied to other species, sure
It'd been great if instead of getting sick, Daniel's just got like Big Giant Ears or Extreme Gas whenever the timeline changed! Lol
Great video thank you so much please keep up your amazing works stay safe and love long and prosper🖖🏻
Ever wonder if the OG Timeline Still Exists? I Do.
Oh Terra Prime, Trek’s version of Cerberus
Tyler, I don't know what you did to this cat... But she is doing everything in her powerful toe beans means to stop me from watching 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Just finished enterprise so this is convenient
Aaah!!! Wednesday!!!
Thank you for this interesting in depth video! I've been rewatching Voyager lately, but I may have to watch some Enterprise again soon. I enjoyed the sort of ambivalent relationships with some of the Vulcan, Andoria,, Suliban, and Xindi characters throughout the show's seasons.
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you, friends. ✝️ :)
Thank you for this video! I have commented numerous times elsewhere how the Temporal Cold War explains the apparent advances in Star Fleet technology seen in Discovery and now also in SNW. I even predicted that the USS Enterprise as depicted in Discovery would more closely resemble the refit Enterprise from the TOS movies. The added flared-out nacelle pylon does suggest such a resemblance. Even the uniforms on the SNW Enterprise are introduced more than a decade earlier than in TOS. Unfortunately, the current showrunners/gatekeepers can't see a solution to the "what is canon" dilemma that's staring them in the face.
damn tyler, get that star trek bag 💰
I don't think the timeline has been the same since the almost simultaneous event of "First Contact" and "Future's End"(VOY).
As for "Enterprise", I don't try to trace any particular change to the timeline to any particular event in the series. I just kind of regard the show as a "black box". This was the timeline pre-Enterprise, this is the timeline post-Enterprise.
Loved that you did this.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I’m convinced that the events of Star Trek: First Contact created the Kelvin Universe, and the red matter event at the start of JJ Abrams just exacerbated the situation.
Let's not forget that Future Guy was also meant to turn out to be _Archer_ originally, something we get a strong hint of when Archer is in the future and needs a way to get back, so creating a rudimentary device, is able to use the Suliban Time-Communicator in order to get back into the past. Not to mention that when Archer is brought to the future, the Suliban is unable to contact future guy, which obviously is because Archer was taken out of the timeline.
I am one of those who firmly believe that the Temporal Cold War resulted in the creation of Discovery era-of-events as well as Strange New Worlds. It is the only way to describe the changes to technology and other stuff. Perhaps we should stop calling it the Prime Timeline and rather just call it the TOS Timeline since that really would fit everything up to Voyager in it. Just as we call JJ Trek the Kelvin Timeline, though I suppose then Enterprise - Discovery - SNW - Picard, would be the Enterprise timeline as opposed to the Discovery Timeline..
The Enterprise novels that isn't a retelling of an episode are great! Highly recommended reading.
Could the Sphere Builders have made the Dyson Sphere that was discovered in "The Next Generation" episode of "Relics" (the one where Scotty was discovered inside of a crashed ship with his and another crew member being cycled through the transporter)?
Dude, I love what you're doing! Great research, fantastic, orderly presentation! Could you spice up the delivery a bit, though? Get as excited as we are about Star Trek? You have a very professorial delivery; you'd be a whiz at narrating sleep aid tapes.
Great video dude! Thanks!
It might be best to ignore all
things Kurtzman Trek.
It would certainly make these videos considerably more enjoyable!
Not that I don’t enjoy them, but Kurtzman Trek is not connected to the any of the original Star Trek properties, and I know I’m far from alone in feeling that way.
I suspect at some point in the future all of the damage that Kurtzman has done will be swept aside when someone who actually cares about Star Trek comes along to right the ship.
Man Terra Prime would have been a great villain for season one Star Trek enterprise
great vid,
Think we have to acknowledge the fact that the NX-01 was launched early as a result of Klang landing on earth (trying to undo the temporal agents' work at causing civil war) so the timeline was charged from the moment episode 1 aired - that should clear up any cannon violation going forward as its an altered timeline
I‘d really like to know how the current showrunners of Star Trek see and treat this issue - like: Did the Temporal Cold War actually change the timeline we knew from TOS, TNG etc., or was this all a „predestination paradox“, meaning it was all a time loop to begin with, since the 31st century was already TOS‘s future and thus the Temporal Cold War was TOS‘s past?
You help me keep the void from creeping in.
Enterprise got cancelled partially because of the hate, like overwhelming at the time.. now people are going back and talking about how great it is.... can we just agree to "enjoy the ride" next time so hardcore fans don't miss out...
To the question of a alternate universe no, but a different time line culminating from the events of first contact, Picard and crew not cleaning up after the fight with the Borg. That changed the time line. I would call this the butterfly effect. The ripples from said battle in earths past effected more than we probably can understand, you can see from the T.O.S. how much larger the Enterprise is in Discovery and inn strange new worlds.
I assumed the Temp Cold War timeline was Prime, and that Daniels was actually a different future.
That's essentially what I have always believed and try to demonstrate in the video, yep.
Personally, I think the full "banning" of time travel was less something agreed upon, and more that the Burn kind of played enough of a wrecking ball that there wasn't a real way to go through time.
Digging the beard
I have said that the timeline was altered by ENT since I first saw it, although I go one further and say ENT itself is a timeline altered by the events of First Contact, which is why so much of ENT (and all shows/films that follow) doesn't fit with what we previously knew about Trek's past. (And nicely explains why Riker and Troi from These Are the Voyages... are quite the same versions from The Pegasus [notably older, references to that latter episodes that don't fit, etc].)
it cant be a coincidence that Paraagan II and Peragus were both mining colonies
See... if Daniels didn't Deputize Archer... all of those factions would have had Captain Janeway showing up when they tried to do temporal stuff to humans
Daniels logic is, "dood... I don't want Janeway anywhere near me. We tell stories to our children of the Janeway boogeyman. Because the children are not ready to handle the truth of how extremely worse Janeway showing up on your doorstep actually is. Anything I can do... to not have her show up at ANY incident designed to remove humans from this... anything!"
Thank you for explaining some of this. I saw the first half of a two part story on Star Trek Enterprise and couldn't follow what was going on. No wonder I was lost, there was much more to this than I knew. I understand some of it a little better now but I'm not that smart all this Star Trek stuff although I've been a fan since the original show. Thank you for a great video on all this.
Star Trek Enterprise definitely should’ve gotten all 7 seasons 🖖🏻
Literally my first thought when I first watched Enterprise was "who the hell grows corn around Broken Bow?".
@@subraxas my mom lives near Lake Wister.
@@subraxas growing up we visited my grandparents every year, when I first heard the showtune Oklahoma, I couldn't understand the line "where the wind comes sweeping though the plains"... I had never seen flat ground in that state. Lol
Can u explain or review star trek's warp necelles and bussard collectors
There's one thing that has always puzzled me about the first episode. Is it "Broken Bow" like "Bow and Arrow" or is it "Broken Bow" like the bow of a ship? I always read it as the latter.
More to the point it is not just the 7 million people who have been prevented from contributing to the time line, it is their descendents and how everyone interacts. This means even the people who were not descended from them will have different social interactions and maybe even find different partners to form families with. To the point that TOS, TNG et all could not likely have the same human characters in full because the butterfly effect would be massive. It would also mean different people would exist in other species as well the further forward from the point you go. Effectively you can conclude there is no true time line in Trek as every interaction adjusts it. Even the fact we continue producing new Star Trek requires us to retcon it as we get nearer established events. This is to keep it relevant to our future time line.
I highly recommend reading David (Tribble) Gerrold's 'The Man Who Folded Himself'. From a 3rd person perspective, once you go back in time, your original timeline is lost forever. It's a hard concept to wrap your head around but the Star Trek: Enterprise show is not from the TOS universe. In the TOS universe, the temporal wars never happened and NX-01 didn't encounter many of the things it did as depicted in Enterprise. Enterprise, the show, is the altered timeline with interference from the future.
Love the Star trek Vids. My concern with changing timelines and retconning ideas is that it ruins established lore. I lost a lot of my interest in Trek after TNG, voyager and DS9. I was wondering if you will you ever get into Stargate? I think it's a goldmine when it comes to sci-fi content.
I tend to view Trek as existing in a static timeline due to the established presence of time loops.
However, if altering the past is indeed possible then the list in this vid would change things MASSIVELY! Yeah, Daniels gave that fancy light show to Archer after "Stormfront 2" and claimed that the timelines were correcting themselves but that was clearly more lies, as Trip's dead sister can testify.
Keep going down the rabbit hole - in many ways the original show introduced the Temporal War, and that story is developed slowly through all series from start to this day.
Hi! Thanks for the explaination. Honestly, I'm sick of how the Star Trek writers of today ignore canon and then explain it with different timelines or alternate universes or whatsoever, of pequels that look more modern than the sequels and evens of the prequels who have no effect to the later time although they should. Why on earth are they so focused on prequels? "The Orville" is showing that it's still possible to create episodes for a future after "The Next Generation". As far as I know, the only ST canon is ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. Everything else is just a labeled to be Star Trek, but is something different.
I always wondered, what effects the Temporal Cold War and the war with the Xindi had on the formation of Sektion 31. I would imagine they probably gained way more power and ressources than they originaly had, which than enabled Sektion 31 to build a more powerful and problematic Control...
Uhhgh,stop it with Sektion 31! It is a fun thing to have once or twice a show, not enough to build a whole show around.
Mark my words, if they make a show around “Sektion 31” it will…
1. Muck up Star Trek
2. Fail horribly
Leave it as it is, something we trek fans can wonder about and have lots of “ head canon” about.
Isn't that the Kelvin timeline? Where section 31 builds a battleship in preparation for the war against the Klingon.
itys shame they canceled the show they had some amazing storylines
16:23 - "The Temporal Cold War temporarily turns hot when another faction, the Na'kuhl..." Fantastic play on words. I can't believe no one has mentioned it. "Na'kuhl" (Not cool) :chefs kiss:
Enterprise had a LOT of canon fertile ground to explore. But, instead, they did the temporal cold war, invented the expanse issue as well as the Xindi, and did whatever it could to avoid very interesting canon of the time for great stories. But, hey, they did a great job at making Klingons of TOS to TNG and after be the same species and biology! Kudos to them for that. They did a great job as to making an alternate universe, the most popular one, a great technologically advanced one. Kudos to them for that.
However, they did that as a big downplay to the established canon universe and thus gave a lot of room for later writers to give the big middle-finger to established canon as a past-timeline rewright that... after some rights purchases, allowed ST:D to become canon as the biggest middle finger to all of the Star Trek established fictional universe by them saying it was primary universe canon... which is more of a cluster-f^ck than any comic book series rewriting of its past that people who know the original source as life-long fans already knew.
It's not the Marvel nor DC multiverse nor a Star Trek alternate reality they did... they crammed that big square peg into a small round hole and just said that's where it fits, thus saying everything that just fit through that hole is sh^t.
ST:D (STD Star Trek, Discovery, the STD insult does apply) is far more canon-breaking than anything ever, even the movies, just by the whole cramming their crap into being the base behind TOS.
ST:E did some damage to canon, true. That meant it was deviating from canon, the original timeline, not creating it. That was totally cool. The boggle, the ruining, was pretending the later creations were OG canon and were always part of the OG timeline... that's far less stable and fundamental than the chaotic platform that barely had a base itself while giving it a total middle-finger that was beloved and told post-ST:D era in previous canon after those that purchased Star Trek declared that their crap was OG timeline canon. Big square peg jammed through a tiny round hole while claiming it fits.
Also anyone remember the nacelles look different than the original tos episodes. I think during first contact, the nacelles were slightly changed by geordi for the flight. The same type of nacelles are now present on the enterprise NX-01 and the uss enterprise in pike's show, which is slightly different than what we saw in TOS's enterprise's nacelles
I had thought they would use the Temporal Cold War to explain away the differences between this show and The Original Series, and it is the fan theory to explain why Discovery Era Trek is so different (instead of, you know....Bad Writers Who Don't Care About TOS,TNG or anything that came before 9_9)
I love your video, and liked your detailed analysis very much. Personally, I agree with all of it; but, at least for me, there was a previous event to the Temporal Cold War that caused the original split of the Prime Timeline: the incursion of the Enterprise-E to the past in "First Contact". Not only they mentioned it (kinda) on Enterprise, but I also think that having Cochrane saw the Enterprise on orbit made him a little more ambitious with his designs, accelerating, as you mention it, the technological development with the Warp 5 project. Having the NX-01 being the first Enterprise instead of the Declaration-class (of clearly Vulcan inspiration) seen on ST:TMP display panel on the rec lounge is a heavy hint for me. All you described on your video is, for me, the "Phoenix Timeline". I'll be delighted to hear your thoughts on this.
I personally view the events of First Contact as forming the basis of a causality loop / predestination paradox. Seven of Nine says so in an episode of Voyager. As for the NX-01 not being present on display in TMP, I kind of handwave that as a real-world production thing rather than worrying as much about an in-universe explanation (though in one of the novels, the author explains that in-universe the NX-01 was omitted by mistake!)
I just think Daniels and the Temporal Starfleet appeared to be severely incompetent. The loss of 7 million lives, The destruction of an entire mining colony, all the deviations from Enterprise's original mission, the Xindi Conflict. They stopped the adversaries from destroying Earth and ensured the formation of the Federation, but that's odd that that seemed to be the only goal. If time has been changed this drastically, you'd think great effort would be taken to fix these disruptions to it, no matter how long it took. It apparently took Annorax and the Krenim over two centuries to restore their imperium to 99.9% of what it was. In comparison to how messed up the timeline became in the 22nd Century, I'd be surprised if the timeline was even 60% fixed.