I think they could do a whole series talking about the Mirror Universe and I don't think I would get tired of watching it. There is so much rich materials they can explore with it.
This was really brilliant, especially Part 3...And here I thought this was just another fun Star Trek channel when it's actually a philosophical-historical seminar....
In every revolution, there's one man with a vision.. Still gives me chills every time I see Shatner deliver that line with total conviction, under complete emotional control. For those who say Shatner is too much of a ham actor.
Im rewatching the TOS show on Bunny Tails Reacts channel - its great when she acknowledges his range and abilities. Its her first time watching, in honor of her passed Father, super cool time.
Over the top was the only way to play Captain Kirk. If you think about it he's coming into the role and the captain is supposed to be a 33 year old legend in his own time. Other than the way he played it I don't know how you could make that work.
Shatner wasn't really hammier than other dramatic television and film acting of the 50s and 60s. He appears so sometimes because his counterpart is Spock, but the Shatner memes(pre internet memes) really come from the trek movies and not the show. Shatner was always a great actor. He easily could've been a big movie star if he hadn't done Star Trek, and gotten the right big screen role.
So hot... Bob and I are the same gen (Gen-X). Linda Park is a bombshell. And Jolene Blalock-Mirror T'Pol was also a Wow!! If you notice, Mirror T'Pol had a sexier, more flattering hair stye, white nails, and pink lips. And an exposed bare midrif, common to the female uniforms for the Terran Empire. Grace Park too but that was BSG.
It's pretty crazy that you showed Smedley Butler in your slideshow since my personal pet theory for the Mirror Universe's divergence point is the premature death of General Butler himself.
The holy Roman Empire was holy (crowned by the pope), it was roman (went all the way down to Italy) and it was an emprie (several Kingdoms within it). What Voltaire did not know, is that it is wrong to be French!
That actually can be a plausible difference. I could imagine a unification between the Byzantine Empire and the Holy Roman Empire to maintain control over much of Europe and the Mediterranean. This possibly could've held off the Ottoman Empire for longer than in our timeline and would have given more favoritism to Roman history. In turn it gave the Roman Catholic Church even more influence and perhaps could have affected the outcome of Martin Luther's Protestant Reformation.
On a Tuesday in the 37th Century BC, in our universe a leaf fell from an acacia tree into a pond, in the Mirror Universe a leaf fell from that same acacia tree onto the dirt that is the Divergence point
My thoughts on the mirror universe is that we generally think of ourselves as inner heroes. In the end, we always fight for truth and justice.. however.. if that were inverted, we would always at our core; in our hearts.. always see ourselves as the villain.. and would always fight for selfishness instead and the only honor is in victory at all costs.. That's our mirror.. or at least our ideal selves' mirror.
Tyler, your theory of the origin of the Terran Empire has merit. I'm a proud patriot and a veteran... and I, too, acknowledge that the US is an empire of sorts... illiberal and exploitive only for the benefit of an elite few... and I'm not fond of this reality. It can be debated on when it began in the mirror universe, but I'd posit we've been creeping in that direction since WWII only to accelerate after 9/11. If we don't make a serious course correction this century, we will have a globalist, authoritarian technocratic [NWO] Empire that will not resemble anything "American" or liberal democratic in character. For the Republic to survive, the Empire MUST die. Excellent video! 😁
Vorratus, you are right that the empire must die, but we are the globalists. We have a system that spans most of the globe with the United States at its imperial core. Petroleum, the most precious commodity on Earth, is traded in US dollars. Saddam Hussein didn't sell oil in US dollars and we sent our Pinkertons in and sent a very clear message to the rest of the world about the consequences of independent action. The system is not broken. It is operating exactly as it was designed to. It is only now that Americans are feeling the weight of our own authoritarianism that we're waking up to what the rest of the world lives.
One of the ironies of the original "Mirror, Mirror" is that it's the only episode of TOS that showed other Vulcan crewmembers aboard the Enterprise, even though the name and the later canon from Discovery and Enterprise indicated that it was a very species-supremacist organization. Also, the TNG book "Dark Mirror" had a fascinating line where Prime Picard intentionally does not open the Bible, for fear of what he might have seen in it.
Just curious, how does "Enterprise" intrinsically indicate species-supremacist? What by it's very utterance and nature says "They clearly think thier species is superior." ?
@@bigguy7353 Naming your empire the "Terran Empire" is a good clue. Also bringing T'Pol into your ready room to show off the weapon that killed Vulcans during First Contact was pretty brutal. The attempt to destroy the Defiant was led completely by non-humans. Vulcans were a favored servitor race (and were probably closer to Romulans in the mirror universe), and a half-human Spock did rise to become commander-in-chief eventually. (This did suggest that Georgiou was the last emperor and left no heirs.)
Wow holy shit yeah if the normal bible is this fucked, I dread to see what the Bible of the mirror universe is. Jesus razed Jerusalem to the ground or something fucked like that.
@@bjorn00000There are Vulcan crew members in Mirror mirror, and there are Vulcan crew members in In A Mirror Darkly. There's even a Vulcan captain of another Terran ship. Vulcans were conquered by the Terrans, but they're part of the empire and serve in mirror Starfleet, and would be very useful to the Terrans. The Terrans have many other species serving in Starfleet as well.
@@histguy101 Soval and T'Pol are ranking officers, but Soval isn't the captain of the Avenger. Other than that... I don't understand what point you're trying to make. It's still Terrans first!
In my head canon. The original Enterprise (No bloody A,B,C,D,E,F, and G) was never destroyed and is still mostly intact in the mirror universe. As the events of Star Trek 2 & 3 never happened in the Terran Empire. What I imagine is, As Terran Starfleet upgraded the fleet in the 2270s. The original Enterprise was simply decommissioned and it's crew transferred to the newer Constitution Class II Enterprise - A. The old Enterprise would have been simply towed to a scrapyard/ship graveyard in some out of the way star system and quickly forgotten. Destined to drift for all eternity. As the Terrans were more spartan and utilitarian and not as sentimental as Prime Starfleet. They wouldn't have wasted resources completely refitting ships when building newer ones from the ground up would be faster and more cost effective.
If that's the cause, I would like to point out that towing and having scrap yards would not have happened. It would have been more cost-effective to tear apart decommissioned craft and use the materials for building the next generation of craft.
I don't know if you've watch the fan series Farragut. The have a episode where they visit a planet and are beaming down when one of the planet's scientists are watching history through some kind of computer. The Farragut's landing party ends up during the Revolution war. They think its from their history, but it actually ends up being the Mirror Universe, and tells General Washington how beat the British. When they finally leave you see General Washington stick a knife through the top of a apple. They say that General Washington is the first leader of the Empire. Its a good episode.
Thanks for a great mirror universe compilation! The Mirror Universe if my favorite thing about Star Trek, and I hope they explore more of it in the future.
I remember my friend in school being such a fan of Doctor Who and never watched any Star Trek. He saw the first episode of TNG and Q and became a HUGE treky. He became obsessed with the mirrorverse and the Q. I was more a mirrorverse Borg guy but also loved the Q.
Yes . I think the original ST and Enterprise looked at it as a possible "Dark" side of our humanity. A stable Government is needed to foster progress. Its hard to imagine that constant intrigue would build a stable government.
9:02 I was over here listening to Star Trek history, and then thought the video changed to my PBS SpaceTime playlist. Well done Sir with your explanations. 👏 👏
I'm with you about the divergent parts. Most of history will have the same outcome but different decisions made by important people makes it a little different. Like how at the end of the civil war, Lincoln made a decision to spare the lives of Confederate leadership and everyone who insurrected. In the mirror universe it could have gone differently in many ways.
We learned, in Picard season 2, that Renée Picard not participating in the Europa Mission in 2024 lead to the Confederation of Earth (a very similar xenophobic empire). so its quite likely that you are correct in thinking the change that lead to the establishment of the Terran empire was a lot more contemporary, it's even possible that the Confederation evolves into the Empire
When it comes to the America theory, you could go back further, the empire starts in the 20th century but maybe the branching point was earlier, as America had an idea of manifest destiny like European empires of the time but failed to take over Mexico and Canada. What if that was different in the mirror universe and America become a colonial power and empire, allowing for such ideas to continue up to the 20th century, maybe coming out as the strongest empire after the world wars, the terran empire was formed, maybe to counter the USSR, using the cold War paranoia to keep control. Also with it incorporating many European countries and empires it gains roman iconography.
The Edith Keeler has merit...let's use TV Logic and assume Mirror Kirk travelled back in time too. He would meet and fall for his own Edith. Then a Mirror Kirk would solve the problem just SLIGHTLY differently. Perhaps his resolution has him taking steps to restore his own timeline.... By the same TV Logic, a Mirror Q and Mirror Picard would have the Anti-Time Anomaly in the Devron System resolved so their timeline is restored....
How's this for an explanation of their behaviour in the Mirror Universe: At the time of the Bronze Age Collapse, a mutated form of meningitis spread and became endemic. It seemed to be no more than a mild illness, but its long-term effect on the sufferer was to give them a degree of permanent discomfort and over-sensitivity to bright light. Considering all that was going on at the time, it wouldn't have seemed surprising that if people started being irritable and impatient, but when most of the population is cranky, impulsive, and short-tempered...
Ever notice that that Trek series involve either Q or the mirror universe? Voyager & Next Generation feature Q episodes while Enterprise, TOS, Disco, and DS9 feature mirror universe episodes. Of course DS9 has both Q*and* mirror universe episodes 😮. I wonder what *that* means…
If the Terran Empire is an outgrowth of some kind of change in American behavior, it seems more logical that it would have happened in the 1940s. Consider: FDR dies in 1944, not 1945. Henry Wallace becomes President. In reality, his office is now solidly known in as having been thoroughly infiltrated by Soviet operatives. Thus, a Wallace Administration would have created a much more Socialist-friendly US, along with a very Socialist-oriented UK (which was in fact the case after Churchill) after defeating the capitalist/fascist Nazis and 19th-century-style-imperialist Japanese Empire. No Cold War as the US, UK and USSR simply split up the globe to impose parallel Socialist hegemonies. No UN, but rather an ad hoc Co-Dominion which sees a Third World War within 15-20 years (since Socialist regimes don't share well) that had no winner, but rather resulting in a single totalitarian state being assembled from the ashes, using old Roman iconography to "legitimize" its right to rule. As with all things Star Trek, it's just imagination, but that's the fun part.
hey i enjoy your videos. i wrote one of the disco mirror episodes and we as a writing staff discussed the possible mirror origins a lot but never settled on anything. i think 20th century american imperialism is a very smart theory. the korean spins out of control and we drop the bomb? or the US nukes the soviets and starts a pre-emptive WW3 before they can ramp up their nuclear program? that is the best divergence theory i have heard. but considering all the entanglements, it's got to be something semi supernatural or otherwise super weird. thanks for your content! when i was on staff, we looked to fan sites and videos for information, you are the historians of trek. llap.
M-theory combines and unifies all of the string theories, and posits that the strings are actually slices of 2-dimensional membranes seen from different perspectives. All the math combines and works in that regard. M-theory is not complete yet, but it had Stephen Hawking's full support, and he spent his final days working on it. The "brane" thing you talk about is actually from M-theory.
Mid twentieth century America as the origin of the Terran Empire has a couple problems. The symbol for the Terran Empire of a sword behind a map of the Earth would be different if Americanized. The map would be of the Mercator, or America centered image if we ruled the world. The Terran Empire icon has a sort of Europe centered image. Also, Terra, a Latin word for the Earth, is too high brow for an empire of cowboys. It might be that Hitler does not embrace the Blitzkrieg. When Nazi Germany and the USSR invade Poland, the French and British Empires declare war on both...and defeat them. These two Empires unite and form a common language based on Latin with a strong romanticism of the Roman Empire. Hail Britannia! ;)
I just noticed my fascination with the mirror universe is the same as my fascination for the sith in star wars. I just want to consume everything with trek's mirror universe & star wars's sith
Have we considered the possibility that both universes are very closely tied to the personalities of the individuals involved? In other words, the timeline must be at least partially parallel, because the existence of one individual is tied to the reality of the counterpart. In this sense, the mirror universe is actually a differing ethical reflection of the prime universe. Hence the attribution of the different quality of light in some accounts.
See also Truman Doctrine, Grand Area Strategy where post WWII strategy was outlined as control of natural resource areas across the globe, and then also couple with post-WWII US backing of governments in Greece and elsewhere with a fascist leaning (see the film 'Z' for Greece, Greece only one example of US backed regimes)
33:00 It's so funny that, world-wide, the US is recognized as an imperialistic regime (at least when in comes to its foreign policy), except in the US. Why would the truth be controversial?
If you see videos of average americans you would understand that they have been fed so much propaganda through their lives that they don't understand how to find the "truth" (I prefer the term facts).
Might have something to do with the issue of countries OUTSIDE USA dragging it into their conflicts (WW1 & especially WW2). & then 9/11 happened. You people kept on poking the sleeping giant & thought nothing bad would happen. Congratulations, you messed around with the sleeping giant. Now you get to deal with the consequences. Naturally, my line of reason only has good justification from UK to Russia. I am not nearly well-informed enough about Africa to know the impact USA may have had on that continent.
“Two hundred and fifty years, two hundred and fifty years. When was the United States founded?” LMAO. Yeah, that is a harsh realization. One thing I would like to see is an episode wherein we see how the Mirror Universe deals with their parallel universes popping into theirs. The Prime Universe handles it all in the usual way, friendly and helpful. I wonder how the Empire would deal with an incursion.
I think people forget that technically the Augments did win the Eugenics War, the result was a revolution against the rule of the Augments that drives them to space in the BOTANY BAY. 😊
I realize hating on Star Trek Discovery has become a bit of a dead horse, but I absolutely hate Discovery for how they handled the mirror universe. The fun of the MU is seeing the characters we've gotten to know and love become evil twin versions of themselves. The Discovery Season 3 mirror episode was kinda fun (watching evil Burnham was probably the most entertaining that show has ever been), but completely dropping/overlooking Empress Sato was such a disservice. The cannibalism was just a big yuck. And given this is current year they dropped all the sexy outfits! Both men and women got to show some skin in the MU and they dropped it because we can have a naked Klingon lady and a severed baby head but not sexy Starfleet outfits?
I have one big question, why do they call it a mirror universe? If it's a mirror universe of the prime universe, that means it should be the same as the prime universe because mirrors reflect exactly back what's put in front of them as they reflect light and show an image of what's in front of them. By that should it be called a alternative universe and not a mirror universe because its not exactly like the prime universe.
20:00 If Abrahamic religions played no role in the mirror universe, why is Archer's first name still Jonathan and Kirks first name still James, short for Jacob? The counterparts _can_ have different first names, like prime Forrest's first name is Maxwell and mirror Forrest's is Maximilian.
I would have liked a "Mirror Mirror" series, NOT because of all attractive women in midriff-baring outfits, but because there was SO MUCH to offer as a series. As in, the EMPIRE fighting within itself for possession and use of the more advanced Federation Starship. Think Game Of Thrones in space.
Such a shame we got like zero mirror universe in Voyager. Could have been great to meet Starfleet's Delta quadrant fleet in a war with the Borg! How good would a 3 episode movie to that be!!
I had always thought the mirror universe started when the humans decided to kill the vulcans and take their technology at the end of first contact, vs deciding to embrace and learn from them
37:10f The word "empire" in English has two meanings: ▪︎A state reigned by a monarch who is referred to as "emperor". ▪︎A state unified by conquest, resulting in the conquering state to be dominant over the others. In German, we refer to the first one as "Kaiserreich" or "Kaisertum" (the latter mainly refers to the institution of an emperor (Kaiser) at the top), the latter is referred to as "Reich" or "Imperium". If we say "das Empire", we mostly are referring to the British one.
Wow. Good thing I'm retired .. I have time to think about this ... and likely mis-understand it. I like the idea that the Mirror Universe is whatever makes a good story. It didn't hurt my feelings that all ST Brand Participants ( I'm sure there is a word for this but I can't muster it at the moment . ) had good looking babes who embraced their roles in each episode ... a continuity that has survived a number of ST... ( well, lets just say mistakes ) I don't want to over think the String Theory here... It works for me.. so there could be a female Capt Kirk. Woha ! Could there be a Movie here.... after all, it wouldn't bother any other ST movie's Timeline. .. Aaa .. well , I think . Complicated but enlightening . Thank you .... I will never insult Phase Diagrams again.
Honestly, I think you're on the right track, but didn't get it fully as you only went as far back as when the Terran Empire was supposedly founded. It is our "Mirror Universe," as such, I think its history is an inverse of ours... in terms of the decisions people in power made. Like, every time a world defining conflict arose, a superposition of decisions arose, the Mirror universe leaders would take the moral antithetical decision of what we made. Ancient Rome, for example, would then have been a Republican Oligarchy during times it was an Empire for us. Perhaps when the US was founded, those who wanted Washington to be a Monarch won (and perhaps that Monarchy wasn't so much a familial progression, but Monarch elected by the people, as a lifetime installment, with elections being held upon either death or abdication). I do agree that at some point, American influence likely progressed to shape the Terran Empires' founding... but I would probably go with the idea that *if* the Mirror Universe is lead by the antithetical decisions of our world leaders, the likely scenario would have been more in line of the US jumping into WWII from the start, and the Allied powers overwhelming the Axis powers, followed by a mild hot war during the Cold War years that likely caused the USSR's collapse, and a coalition of US, British, and French forces claiming the fallen USSR, each nation claiming a section of the USSR's claim of Germany... all this culminating in a 4 superstate Earth, likely by the end of the 20th century. The space race would have still happened, tho much later in the Mirror Universe, say, the start of the 21st century, and by the 2010s war would have broken out between these superstates, culminating in a singular Terran Empire, founded on the 1940s-50s American Empire, the last of the 4 superstates standing, likely caused by a decision by those in power to allow bioengineering and the creation of augments (the antithesis of what we see in real world American politics today) ... all of this pure conjecture, of course.
What if the normal timeline is the divergent and the mirror universe is the real universe that comes from our regular shared history....whoaaaaaa!!!!(mind blowing)
Not directly related to the Star Trek Canon, back in the 90s, Steve Jackson Games developed 2 sourcebooks for their GURPS 3rd edition tabletop role-playing game system; Alternate Earth's and Alternate Earth's 2. Each section of the books detailed a specific split in a historical event, which led to some interesting societal and technological divergences. Might be worth a look for you.
my fav is that we exist within a blackhole that eat everything and out big bang and the expansion is it eating another universe making ours a microverse, and they say our blackholes are the same thing and that each universe is limited by how many blackholes making the parelels to each dont forget by the time the vulkans showed up the earth had been ravaged by war and was mostly small communities left out of the ashes of nukes
I don’t think the point of departure is too far back bye...at some point within forty fifty years forward or back right of now humanity takes a hard right turn
So... with regards to the origins... the Trojan War thing would imply a split with the founding of Rome given that the survivors of Troy are likely some of the founders of Rome. This could alter things just enough philosophically to change a few things in the timelineto result in what we got. But really the question is what caused Zephram to do x vs y and the truth is that dude was a drunk and just did something fairly suicidal in the midst of a apocalyptic war with asiatic people (that were reduced to cannibalism at this point that we know of). It could have been a spur of the moment thing that once they started moving down the path there was no stopping. Cochrane probably regretted it and likely lead to slower advancement for a time, only spurred on by having access to Vulcan tech and then the Earth-Kzinti War would have happened forcing them further into brutality. Vulcans would have been hostile at this time and then Klingons show up...That's 3 hostile races that are your first contacts. That's going to make you hostile. When the Romulans attacked everyone that would have given the Terrans the opportunity to conquer the Vulcans.
As far as the last bit... If we're saying that this empire arose during or shortly after WW2... we still have to get to WW3 and the way we would do that is make mostly no alterations to the time, but for 1. Japan doesn't attack the US, resulting the US not getting into the war. Germany would unify Europe with Russia, China, the US, and Italy, and Japan being major powers. Eventually the US, Germany, and Italy would unify into a solid block with the US probably being the overall top dog since the other 2 would have been severely weakened in the war. The US also wouldn't have been as powerful, due to its production not ramping up. The ethnic cleansing ideology would likely have faded as it was a means to an ends and not an ends in and of itself. Nukes aren't used in this timelines, but eventually invented along with German/US space programs emerging as the Germans who effected to the US later would have still worked on those programs here. Russia, the Japanese Empire, and German/US nations would have entered a 3 way cold war which would have eventually led to the eugenics wars and ww3 setting up for a more hostile first contact. This could have been the effect of some other element deeper in history that is not covered because Asian history is usually left out... or it could just be that Japan didn't find out about US aiding China.
hosi and t'pol came close in mirror universe, but nothing can touch marlena moreau....i think star trek continues fan film did a sequel to the mirro mirror episode, it was really well done
I like the idea that it is the USA but i don't think it ismpossible. The empire flag/insignia is eurocentric geographically. If it was an american empire the map would have the americas in the middle.
Man, I think this one of the first videos of yours I saw. Now I am wondering if I saw it when it first came out or later. 2021 wasn't that long ago and I've been a sub for a while lol idk.. I'm really stoned and this was a wonderful rewatch. Thank you. MYCELIAL NETWORK!!!! WOOOOOHOOOO!
Tyler, ".....political in the comments, so keep it civil." 10 seconds later: "F*** You! NOO, F*** You! Oh yeah? Well,*********, and ****, your **** and ****, *****, the ***** ******! You got that?" ...😂😂
I've never liked the Mirror Universe. To me, it's the more likely future than Gene's vision. I don't want to watch a " probably will happen" episode or series. I guess I'm not as much of an optimist as I once was...🤘🤐🖖🇨🇦
33:10f _A brutal, xenophobic, faschistic..._ Not as xenophobic as the Nazi regime, obviously. Otherwise, mirror Mayweather would probably have been a kind of slave rather than an officer, and so were all non- Terrans like Vulcans and Andorians, as well as Denebolans like mirror Phlox.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think they could do a whole series talking about the Mirror Universe and I don't think I would get tired of watching it. There is so much rich materials they can explore with it.
I agree. The Mirror Universe is always my favorite in the Star Trek universe.
This was really brilliant, especially Part 3...And here I thought this was just another fun Star Trek channel when it's actually a philosophical-historical seminar....
In every revolution, there's one man with a vision..
Still gives me chills every time I see Shatner deliver that line with total conviction, under complete emotional control.
For those who say Shatner is too much of a ham actor.
Im rewatching the TOS show on Bunny Tails Reacts channel - its great when she acknowledges his range and abilities. Its her first time watching, in honor of her passed Father, super cool time.
Over the top was the only way to play Captain Kirk. If you think about it he's coming into the role and the captain is supposed to be a 33 year old legend in his own time. Other than the way he played it I don't know how you could make that work.
@@deadend1041Well said.
Shatner wasn't really hammier than other dramatic television and film acting of the 50s and 60s. He appears so sometimes because his counterpart is Spock, but the Shatner memes(pre internet memes) really come from the trek movies and not the show.
Shatner was always a great actor. He easily could've been a big movie star if he hadn't done Star Trek, and gotten the right big screen role.
I was in my mid-30's when Enterprise's "In a Mirror Darkly" aired. Mirror Hoshi made me feel like I was going through puberty again. 🙂🙂🙂
@@ThommyofThenn Yeah, I really wish they would have done more with her character.
I am just going to say it. Mirror Hoshi was hot. We all went thru puberty again. When she called herself Empress, I was done. LOL
@@ThommyofThenn 👏👏👏👏 Sir i tip my hat to you. excellent
So hot... Bob and I are the same gen (Gen-X). Linda Park is a bombshell. And Jolene Blalock-Mirror T'Pol was also a Wow!! If you notice, Mirror T'Pol had a sexier, more flattering hair stye, white nails, and pink lips. And an exposed bare midrif, common to the female uniforms for the Terran Empire. Grace Park too but that was BSG.
@@ThommyofThenn The OP for this thread.
It's pretty crazy that you showed Smedley Butler in your slideshow since my personal pet theory for the Mirror Universe's divergence point is the premature death of General Butler himself.
The holy Roman Empire was holy (crowned by the pope), it was roman (went all the way down to Italy) and it was an emprie (several Kingdoms within it). What Voltaire did not know, is that it is wrong to be French!
😂😂😂
That actually can be a plausible difference. I could imagine a unification between the Byzantine Empire and the Holy Roman Empire to maintain control over much of Europe and the Mediterranean. This possibly could've held off the Ottoman Empire for longer than in our timeline and would have given more favoritism to Roman history. In turn it gave the Roman Catholic Church even more influence and perhaps could have affected the outcome of Martin Luther's Protestant Reformation.
On a Tuesday in the 37th Century BC, in our universe a leaf fell from an acacia tree into a pond, in the Mirror Universe a leaf fell from that same acacia tree onto the dirt that is the Divergence point
peak butterfly effect hypothesis
My thoughts on the mirror universe is that we generally think of ourselves as inner heroes. In the end, we always fight for truth and justice.. however.. if that were inverted, we would always at our core; in our hearts.. always see ourselves as the villain.. and would always fight for selfishness instead and the only honor is in victory at all costs.. That's our mirror.. or at least our ideal selves' mirror.
Tyler, your theory of the origin of the Terran Empire has merit.
I'm a proud patriot and a veteran... and I, too, acknowledge that the US is an empire of sorts... illiberal and exploitive only for the benefit of an elite few... and I'm not fond of this reality.
It can be debated on when it began in the mirror universe, but I'd posit we've been creeping in that direction since WWII only to accelerate after 9/11.
If we don't make a serious course correction this century, we will have a globalist, authoritarian technocratic [NWO] Empire that will not resemble anything "American" or liberal democratic in character.
For the Republic to survive, the Empire MUST die.
Excellent video! 😁
Thank you Vorratus!
Vorratus, you are right that the empire must die, but we are the globalists. We have a system that spans most of the globe with the United States at its imperial core. Petroleum, the most precious commodity on Earth, is traded in US dollars. Saddam Hussein didn't sell oil in US dollars and we sent our Pinkertons in and sent a very clear message to the rest of the world about the consequences of independent action.
The system is not broken. It is operating exactly as it was designed to. It is only now that Americans are feeling the weight of our own authoritarianism that we're waking up to what the rest of the world lives.
One of the ironies of the original "Mirror, Mirror" is that it's the only episode of TOS that showed other Vulcan crewmembers aboard the Enterprise, even though the name and the later canon from Discovery and Enterprise indicated that it was a very species-supremacist organization.
Also, the TNG book "Dark Mirror" had a fascinating line where Prime Picard intentionally does not open the Bible, for fear of what he might have seen in it.
Just curious, how does "Enterprise" intrinsically indicate species-supremacist? What by it's very utterance and nature says "They clearly think thier species is superior." ?
@@bigguy7353 Naming your empire the "Terran Empire" is a good clue. Also bringing T'Pol into your ready room to show off the weapon that killed Vulcans during First Contact was pretty brutal. The attempt to destroy the Defiant was led completely by non-humans.
Vulcans were a favored servitor race (and were probably closer to Romulans in the mirror universe), and a half-human Spock did rise to become commander-in-chief eventually. (This did suggest that Georgiou was the last emperor and left no heirs.)
Wow holy shit yeah if the normal bible is this fucked, I dread to see what the Bible of the mirror universe is. Jesus razed Jerusalem to the ground or something fucked like that.
@@bjorn00000There are Vulcan crew members in Mirror mirror, and there are Vulcan crew members in In A Mirror Darkly. There's even a Vulcan captain of another Terran ship. Vulcans were conquered by the Terrans, but they're part of the empire and serve in mirror Starfleet, and would be very useful to the Terrans. The Terrans have many other species serving in Starfleet as well.
@@histguy101 Soval and T'Pol are ranking officers, but Soval isn't the captain of the Avenger. Other than that... I don't understand what point you're trying to make. It's still Terrans first!
In my head canon.
The original Enterprise (No bloody A,B,C,D,E,F, and G) was never destroyed and is still mostly intact in the mirror universe.
As the events of Star Trek 2 & 3 never happened in the Terran Empire.
What I imagine is, As Terran Starfleet upgraded the fleet in the 2270s.
The original Enterprise was simply decommissioned and it's crew transferred to the newer Constitution Class II Enterprise - A.
The old Enterprise would have been simply towed to a scrapyard/ship graveyard in some out of the way star system and quickly forgotten.
Destined to drift for all eternity.
As the Terrans were more spartan and utilitarian and not as sentimental as Prime Starfleet.
They wouldn't have wasted resources completely refitting ships when building newer ones from the ground up would be faster and more cost effective.
If that's the cause, I would like to point out that towing and having scrap yards would not have happened. It would have been more cost-effective to tear apart decommissioned craft and use the materials for building the next generation of craft.
I don't know if you've watch the fan series Farragut. The have a episode where they visit a planet and are beaming down when one of the planet's scientists are watching history through some kind of computer. The Farragut's landing party ends up during the Revolution war. They think its from their history, but it actually ends up being the Mirror Universe, and tells General Washington how beat the British. When they finally leave you see General Washington stick a knife through the top of a apple. They say that General Washington is the first leader of the Empire. Its a good episode.
I saw that and was thinking of it while watching this video.
Always happy for mirror universe content. Even if it's rewatching previous videos
Thanks for a great mirror universe compilation! The Mirror Universe if my favorite thing about Star Trek, and I hope they explore more of it in the future.
Always a brilliant episode. "Misconception" segment was the best part. Thank You!!
Thank you as well!
Thank you for this experience, Well Done.
I remember my friend in school being such a fan of Doctor Who and never watched any Star Trek. He saw the first episode of TNG and Q and became a HUGE treky. He became obsessed with the mirrorverse and the Q. I was more a mirrorverse Borg guy but also loved the Q.
*trekkie
Yes . I think the original ST and Enterprise looked at it as a possible "Dark" side of our humanity. A stable Government is needed to foster progress. Its hard to imagine that constant intrigue would build a stable government.
9:02 I was over here listening to Star Trek history, and then thought the video changed to my PBS SpaceTime playlist.
Well done Sir with your explanations. 👏 👏
I'm with you about the divergent parts. Most of history will have the same outcome but different decisions made by important people makes it a little different. Like how at the end of the civil war, Lincoln made a decision to spare the lives of Confederate leadership and everyone who insurrected. In the mirror universe it could have gone differently in many ways.
I love the mirror universe there should be a show just on the mirror universe
Discovery was set in the mirror universe
This is a great idea. The whole idea of a revolt against the malevolent Terran Empire is fascinating.
Agreed. We need a full mirror universe series
@@winterburden not all of it.. the mirror universe is dying in discovery I like to know what happened
@@mattbuchanan4330 that would be so dupe ..
Very interesting point of view. Greatly enjoyed your perspective as always.
We learned, in Picard season 2, that Renée Picard not participating in the Europa Mission in 2024 lead to the Confederation of Earth (a very similar xenophobic empire). so its quite likely that you are correct in thinking the change that lead to the establishment of the Terran empire was a lot more contemporary, it's even possible that the Confederation evolves into the Empire
I remember Go-bots had a mirror or parallel universe that was not realistic, because they had to plug in a plug to turn something off or vice versa.
@@subraxas I never thought I'd remember something over 42 years ago
31:55 I have always believed that there is NO point where the two universes "diverge." and that since the very BEGINNING they were a little different.
Can't get enough of your channel ❤ THANK YOU 😊
Thank you!
Is that a member's only Jacket? Did you bring it back from the 80s with you ? can you bring me one too ?
I like your gentleman's dresser/wardrobe.
The mycelial network meme returns.
In a certain DSC episode where the ship strands on a planet, the Terran recklessness turns out to be a useful trait.
When it comes to the America theory, you could go back further, the empire starts in the 20th century but maybe the branching point was earlier, as America had an idea of manifest destiny like European empires of the time but failed to take over Mexico and Canada. What if that was different in the mirror universe and America become a colonial power and empire, allowing for such ideas to continue up to the 20th century, maybe coming out as the strongest empire after the world wars, the terran empire was formed, maybe to counter the USSR, using the cold War paranoia to keep control.
Also with it incorporating many European countries and empires it gains roman iconography.
The Edith Keeler has merit...let's use TV Logic and assume Mirror Kirk travelled back in time too. He would meet and fall for his own Edith. Then a Mirror Kirk would solve the problem just SLIGHTLY differently. Perhaps his resolution has him taking steps to restore his own timeline....
By the same TV Logic, a Mirror Q and Mirror Picard would have the Anti-Time Anomaly in the Devron System resolved so their timeline is restored....
How's this for an explanation of their behaviour in the Mirror Universe: At the time of the Bronze Age Collapse, a mutated form of meningitis spread and became endemic. It seemed to be no more than a mild illness, but its long-term effect on the sufferer was to give them a degree of permanent discomfort and over-sensitivity to bright light. Considering all that was going on at the time, it wouldn't have seemed surprising that if people started being irritable and impatient, but when most of the population is cranky, impulsive, and short-tempered...
Ever notice that that Trek series involve either Q or the mirror universe? Voyager & Next Generation feature Q episodes while Enterprise, TOS, Disco, and DS9 feature mirror universe episodes. Of course DS9 has both Q*and* mirror universe episodes 😮. I wonder what *that* means…
If the Terran Empire is an outgrowth of some kind of change in American behavior, it seems more logical that it would have happened in the 1940s. Consider: FDR dies in 1944, not 1945. Henry Wallace becomes President. In reality, his office is now solidly known in as having been thoroughly infiltrated by Soviet operatives. Thus, a Wallace Administration would have created a much more Socialist-friendly US, along with a very Socialist-oriented UK (which was in fact the case after Churchill) after defeating the capitalist/fascist Nazis and 19th-century-style-imperialist Japanese Empire. No Cold War as the US, UK and USSR simply split up the globe to impose parallel Socialist hegemonies. No UN, but rather an ad hoc Co-Dominion which sees a Third World War within 15-20 years (since Socialist regimes don't share well) that had no winner, but rather resulting in a single totalitarian state being assembled from the ashes, using old Roman iconography to "legitimize" its right to rule.
As with all things Star Trek, it's just imagination, but that's the fun part.
hey i enjoy your videos. i wrote one of the disco mirror episodes and we as a writing staff discussed the possible mirror origins a lot but never settled on anything. i think 20th century american imperialism is a very smart theory. the korean spins out of control and we drop the bomb? or the US nukes the soviets and starts a pre-emptive WW3 before they can ramp up their nuclear program? that is the best divergence theory i have heard. but considering all the entanglements, it's got to be something semi supernatural or otherwise super weird. thanks for your content! when i was on staff, we looked to fan sites and videos for information, you are the historians of trek. llap.
Hey, where's the Good Mirror Universe version of the Android Lore like I was promised??? LOL
M-theory combines and unifies all of the string theories, and posits that the strings are actually slices of 2-dimensional membranes seen from different perspectives. All the math combines and works in that regard. M-theory is not complete yet, but it had Stephen Hawking's full support, and he spent his final days working on it. The "brane" thing you talk about is actually from M-theory.
Seeing how humans are, I'm of the opinion that the 'main universe' is a mirror of the 'mirror universe'.
Mid twentieth century America as the origin of the Terran Empire has a couple problems. The symbol for the Terran Empire of a sword behind a map of the Earth would be different if Americanized. The map would be of the Mercator, or America centered image if we ruled the world. The Terran Empire icon has a sort of Europe centered image. Also, Terra, a Latin word for the Earth, is too high brow for an empire of cowboys. It might be that Hitler does not embrace the Blitzkrieg. When Nazi Germany and the USSR invade Poland, the French and British Empires declare war on both...and defeat them. These two Empires unite and form a common language based on Latin with a strong romanticism of the Roman Empire. Hail Britannia!
;)
Mycelial network!!!! Hahaha... 😄😄😄🙂
I just noticed my fascination with the mirror universe is the same as my fascination for the sith in star wars. I just want to consume everything with trek's mirror universe & star wars's sith
Have we considered the possibility that both universes are very closely tied to the personalities of the individuals involved? In other words, the timeline must be at least partially parallel, because the existence of one individual is tied to the reality of the counterpart. In this sense, the mirror universe is actually a differing ethical reflection of the prime universe. Hence the attribution of the different quality of light in some accounts.
I would've loved to have seen a Mirror Star Trek TNG Universe ,imagine Picard and Co as bad
Dig the "mirror" look and the vaguely ominous lighting
See also Truman Doctrine, Grand Area Strategy where post WWII strategy was outlined as control of natural resource areas across the globe, and then also couple with post-WWII US backing of governments in Greece and elsewhere with a fascist leaning (see the film 'Z' for Greece, Greece only one example of US backed regimes)
Did a universe with life just happen on the first try at making a universe or did it take multiple times before this universe was created
33:00 It's so funny that, world-wide, the US is recognized as an imperialistic regime (at least when in comes to its foreign policy), except in the US. Why would the truth be controversial?
If you see videos of average americans you would understand that they have been fed so much propaganda through their lives that they don't understand how to find the "truth" (I prefer the term facts).
Might have something to do with the issue of countries OUTSIDE USA dragging it into their conflicts (WW1 & especially WW2). & then 9/11 happened.
You people kept on poking the sleeping giant & thought nothing bad would happen.
Congratulations, you messed around with the sleeping giant. Now you get to deal with the consequences.
Naturally, my line of reason only has good justification from UK to Russia. I am not nearly well-informed enough about Africa to know the impact USA may have had on that continent.
“Two hundred and fifty years, two hundred and fifty years. When was the United States founded?” LMAO. Yeah, that is a harsh realization.
One thing I would like to see is an episode wherein we see how the Mirror Universe deals with their parallel universes popping into theirs. The Prime Universe handles it all in the usual way, friendly and helpful. I wonder how the Empire would deal with an incursion.
I think people forget that technically the Augments did win the Eugenics War, the result was a revolution against the rule of the Augments that drives them to space in the BOTANY BAY. 😊
Nope, yeah I totes agree with your concept considering what I know of our history as a nation.
Go mycelial network gang, woooo!!
The Upload made my day :)
Many worlds not many universes. One universal wave function for the entire collection of worlds. And the number of words is huge, but not infinite.
I realize hating on Star Trek Discovery has become a bit of a dead horse, but I absolutely hate Discovery for how they handled the mirror universe. The fun of the MU is seeing the characters we've gotten to know and love become evil twin versions of themselves. The Discovery Season 3 mirror episode was kinda fun (watching evil Burnham was probably the most entertaining that show has ever been), but completely dropping/overlooking Empress Sato was such a disservice. The cannibalism was just a big yuck.
And given this is current year they dropped all the sexy outfits! Both men and women got to show some skin in the MU and they dropped it because we can have a naked Klingon lady and a severed baby head but not sexy Starfleet outfits?
@@nekiyia The Enterprise Mirror Universe episodes are probably favorite, followed by most of the DS9 mirror episodes, if only for Mirror Kira.
how about you look into lore of a star trek mirror universe version of the wonder pets!?
I Was A Fan When it Came Out on CBS Watched the Entire Series And Loved It .
I have one big question, why do they call it a mirror universe? If it's a mirror universe of the prime universe, that means it should be the same as the prime universe because mirrors reflect exactly back what's put in front of them as they reflect light and show an image of what's in front of them. By that should it be called a alternative universe and not a mirror universe because its not exactly like the prime universe.
20:00
If Abrahamic religions played no role in the mirror universe, why is Archer's first name still Jonathan and Kirks first name still James, short for Jacob? The counterparts _can_ have different first names, like prime Forrest's first name is Maxwell and mirror Forrest's is Maximilian.
In the Mirror Universe, Mormon Missionaries aren't going to be willing to help you move house. Fortunately, in the real universe, that isn't true.
A great video would be on the alternate timeline in Picard season 2
I would have liked a "Mirror Mirror" series, NOT because of all attractive women in midriff-baring outfits, but because there was SO MUCH to offer as a series.
As in, the EMPIRE fighting within itself for possession and use of the more advanced Federation Starship.
Think Game Of Thrones in space.
Agreed, but I still want midriff
@@davej9228 midriff-baring outfits are commonplace to begin with... And are in multiple shows and movies.
Always has been, and always will be.
The only reason I watched Discovery was because I heard they were doing several EP in the mirror universe.
Another AWESOME video. thank you Tyler
Thanks Joe!
you're welcome@@OrangeRiver
Such a shame we got like zero mirror universe in Voyager. Could have been great to meet Starfleet's Delta quadrant fleet in a war with the Borg! How good would a 3 episode movie to that be!!
Star Trek Enterprise, Mirror Universe, was the best of their episodes.
Very interesting hypothesis.
Wait Klingons aren't atheists, they just believe they killed their gods. Or at least the prime universe has it that way.
I had always thought the mirror universe started when the humans decided to kill the vulcans and take their technology at the end of first contact, vs deciding to embrace and learn from them
37:10f
The word "empire" in English has two meanings:
▪︎A state reigned by a monarch who is referred to as "emperor".
▪︎A state unified by conquest, resulting in the conquering state to be dominant over the others.
In German, we refer to the first one as "Kaiserreich" or "Kaisertum" (the latter mainly refers to the institution of an emperor (Kaiser) at the top), the latter is referred to as "Reich" or "Imperium". If we say "das Empire", we mostly are referring to the British one.
Every observation that can be made must be made in an infinite universe.
I think its a lot more simple than that, neither universe diverged from the other, both are separate universes and always have been.
I think that the Mirror universe isn't as simple as the good guys are evil in this other universe.
Mirror Hoshi lives rent free in my brain! 😋
Lol. You know Schrodinger was trolling right.
Wow. Good thing I'm retired .. I have time to think about this ... and likely mis-understand it. I like the idea that the Mirror Universe is whatever makes a good story. It didn't hurt my feelings that all ST Brand Participants ( I'm sure there is a word for this but I can't muster it at the moment . ) had good looking babes who embraced their roles in each episode ... a continuity that has survived a number of ST... ( well, lets just say mistakes ) I don't want to over think the String Theory here... It works for me.. so there could be a female Capt Kirk. Woha ! Could there be a Movie here.... after all, it wouldn't bother any other ST movie's Timeline. .. Aaa .. well , I think . Complicated but enlightening . Thank you .... I will never insult Phase Diagrams again.
Honestly, I think you're on the right track, but didn't get it fully as you only went as far back as when the Terran Empire was supposedly founded. It is our "Mirror Universe," as such, I think its history is an inverse of ours... in terms of the decisions people in power made. Like, every time a world defining conflict arose, a superposition of decisions arose, the Mirror universe leaders would take the moral antithetical decision of what we made. Ancient Rome, for example, would then have been a Republican Oligarchy during times it was an Empire for us. Perhaps when the US was founded, those who wanted Washington to be a Monarch won (and perhaps that Monarchy wasn't so much a familial progression, but Monarch elected by the people, as a lifetime installment, with elections being held upon either death or abdication). I do agree that at some point, American influence likely progressed to shape the Terran Empires' founding... but I would probably go with the idea that *if* the Mirror Universe is lead by the antithetical decisions of our world leaders, the likely scenario would have been more in line of the US jumping into WWII from the start, and the Allied powers overwhelming the Axis powers, followed by a mild hot war during the Cold War years that likely caused the USSR's collapse, and a coalition of US, British, and French forces claiming the fallen USSR, each nation claiming a section of the USSR's claim of Germany... all this culminating in a 4 superstate Earth, likely by the end of the 20th century. The space race would have still happened, tho much later in the Mirror Universe, say, the start of the 21st century, and by the 2010s war would have broken out between these superstates, culminating in a singular Terran Empire, founded on the 1940s-50s American Empire, the last of the 4 superstates standing, likely caused by a decision by those in power to allow bioengineering and the creation of augments (the antithesis of what we see in real world American politics today) ... all of this pure conjecture, of course.
Nicely done.
Aw, 250 years... let's not go there (we need to get past 2024). ;-)
8 years ago I would have laughed at the thought.
Today I don't think it at all likely, but it's no longer a 0% chance in my mind.
I appreciate your interesting set. You are in the present while being in the past?
Watched Mirror Mirror last night.
What if the normal timeline is the divergent and the mirror universe is the real universe that comes from our regular shared history....whoaaaaaa!!!!(mind blowing)
Not directly related to the Star Trek Canon, back in the 90s, Steve Jackson Games developed 2 sourcebooks for their GURPS 3rd edition tabletop role-playing game system; Alternate Earth's and Alternate Earth's 2. Each section of the books detailed a specific split in a historical event, which led to some interesting societal and technological divergences. Might be worth a look for you.
my fav is that we exist within a blackhole that eat everything and out big bang and the expansion is it eating another universe making ours a microverse, and they say our blackholes are the same thing and that each universe is limited by how many blackholes making the parelels to each
dont forget by the time the vulkans showed up the earth had been ravaged by war and was mostly small communities left out of the ashes of nukes
I don’t think the point of departure is too far back bye...at some point within forty fifty years forward or back right of now humanity takes a hard right turn
mycelial network
*****cuts to mycelial network*****
I repeat again that the Mirror Universe comes across as a literal parallel universe _NOT_ a divergent one with a POD.
So... with regards to the origins... the Trojan War thing would imply a split with the founding of Rome given that the survivors of Troy are likely some of the founders of Rome. This could alter things just enough philosophically to change a few things in the timelineto result in what we got.
But really the question is what caused Zephram to do x vs y and the truth is that dude was a drunk and just did something fairly suicidal in the midst of a apocalyptic war with asiatic people (that were reduced to cannibalism at this point that we know of).
It could have been a spur of the moment thing that once they started moving down the path there was no stopping. Cochrane probably regretted it and likely lead to slower advancement for a time, only spurred on by having access to Vulcan tech and then the Earth-Kzinti War would have happened forcing them further into brutality. Vulcans would have been hostile at this time and then Klingons show up...That's 3 hostile races that are your first contacts. That's going to make you hostile.
When the Romulans attacked everyone that would have given the Terrans the opportunity to conquer the Vulcans.
As far as the last bit...
If we're saying that this empire arose during or shortly after WW2... we still have to get to WW3 and the way we would do that is make mostly no alterations to the time, but for 1. Japan doesn't attack the US, resulting the US not getting into the war. Germany would unify Europe with Russia, China, the US, and Italy, and Japan being major powers. Eventually the US, Germany, and Italy would unify into a solid block with the US probably being the overall top dog since the other 2 would have been severely weakened in the war. The US also wouldn't have been as powerful, due to its production not ramping up. The ethnic cleansing ideology would likely have faded as it was a means to an ends and not an ends in and of itself.
Nukes aren't used in this timelines, but eventually invented along with German/US space programs emerging as the Germans who effected to the US later would have still worked on those programs here.
Russia, the Japanese Empire, and German/US nations would have entered a 3 way cold war which would have eventually led to the eugenics wars and ww3 setting up for a more hostile first contact.
This could have been the effect of some other element deeper in history that is not covered because Asian history is usually left out... or it could just be that Japan didn't find out about US aiding China.
The irony is that the "mirror universe" is more likely to be the Prime reality considering human history.
TFW your mirror universe counterpart has the same Tennessee accent.
Lmfao
hosi and t'pol came close in mirror universe, but nothing can touch marlena moreau....i think star trek continues fan film did a sequel to the mirro mirror episode, it was really well done
I like the idea that it is the USA but i don't think it ismpossible. The empire flag/insignia is eurocentric geographically. If it was an american empire the map would have the americas in the middle.
10:36 looks a lot like a flux capacitor…
Man, I think this one of the first videos of yours I saw. Now I am wondering if I saw it when it first came out or later. 2021 wasn't that long ago and I've been a sub for a while lol idk.. I'm really stoned and this was a wonderful rewatch. Thank you. MYCELIAL NETWORK!!!! WOOOOOHOOOO!
Tyler, ".....political in the comments, so keep it civil." 10 seconds later: "F*** You! NOO, F*** You! Oh yeah? Well,*********, and ****, your **** and ****, *****, the ***** ******! You got that?" ...😂😂
rome was a monacky then changed to a republic, then to a empire when ceacer became emperor
Tyler,
Could there be many mirror universes our just one?
We're living in the mirror universe.
The older I get the more I feel like this is the truth!
I've never liked the Mirror Universe. To me, it's the more likely future than Gene's vision. I don't want to watch a " probably will happen" episode or series. I guess I'm not as much of an optimist as I once was...🤘🤐🖖🇨🇦
33:10f
_A brutal, xenophobic, faschistic..._
Not as xenophobic as the Nazi regime, obviously. Otherwise, mirror Mayweather would probably have been a kind of slave rather than an officer, and so were all non- Terrans like Vulcans and Andorians, as well as Denebolans like mirror Phlox.
Ah so that's the issue, we are living in the terran timeline....
Damn I wish people would start spouting that inane "empires last for 250 years" idea.