A lot of the SNW version of the Gorn just screams "Augment Crisis", especially when coupled with the narrative thread of La'an and Una and genetic engineering among their species.
Although not one of the theories that have been suggested. I could imagine that the Gorn were taken to their own colony as curiosities by an older race who didn't realise how intelligent or dangerous they were. They then drove off or took over the colonies, evolving distinct adaptations to each individual world before then being reunited. Though the homeworld would be important, the colonies could maintain their own importance if they were the ones to develop space flight first and rediscover the homeworld. Five Systems, five Gorn types.
Given that we know that the Cestus IV colony has been re-established, and presumably under some sort of shared-sovereignty arrangement with the Gorn, and that they play baseball there, an idea that I really like is that there's been some cross-cultural exchange on that planet, and that Cestus IV now has a thriving Gorn baseball league.
The Gorn do lots of cultural exchange in Strange New Worlds too. What could be a better sign of trust than allowing another species to look after your children for you? The unfortunate consequences are just a cultural misunderstanding. 🤣
Clearly, the other galaxy that the Gorn come from is "Far Far Away", when their genetic line split from that of the Trandoshans, evidenced by the "lightsword" seen on the Gorn caprain's belt in the TOS episode "Arena". =) Great video, loved the Skillshare fake-out! Keep up the good work.
They should never have reintroduced the Gorn as being known of prior to "Arena". It renders a lot of what Spock says during that episode contradictory.
"As well as coughing sounds resembling the throat clearing of a seasoned chain smoker" Dude I about choked to death on my cigarette when you said that! ! Your sense of humor and wit really connects with me. Love watching your videos man, your knowledge of Star Trek is the best I've seen.
Are they really ‘cold-blooded’ or are they poikilothermic. As killers, they may be described as ‘cold-blooded’ due to their apparent lack of emotions or hesitance in taking the lives of others. They apparently need little motivation.
O.K. I'm going to take a crack at the question. It is possible that the Gorn look like separate species but because of adaptations to varied regional environments on their homeworld, they appear different much like humans from different parts of Earth look dissimilar but are still the same species. However, all humans reproduce the same way. If one ignores the fact that the real reason Gorn have multiple reproduction techniques is because of poor writing/continuity, then the one homeworld idea seems less likely. The other extreme in concepts is multiple species evolving on the same planet. Of course the Xindi set the precedent in Star Trek so the idea has legs. Except given the reptilian nature of Gorn evolution It's most likely that one species would eventually dominate genetically much like Homosapiens replaced Neanderthals. The Xindi were genetically unique from one another and wouldn't necessarily have to compete for the same resources or environments. But again there is the multiple forms of reproduction for the Gorn to explain. As the age of Gorn civilization is a bit of a mystery, I believe there are two possible explanations that fit the facts. 1. The Gorn were once a single species that, prior to developing FTL, colonized nearby star systems and the satellites they inhabited had an environment sufficiently alien to their biology that they adapted to these conditions and over a long period evolved separately from their counterparts on other worlds. Then were re-united after the invention of warp drive. 2. The Gorn were a single species that, with the creation of warp drive, colonized nearby planets. And, in order to be able to exist on as many different worlds as possible, genetically altered the colonists instead of "terra"-forming the worlds. With the genetically "pure" Gorn providing the hegemonic influence. Which means they can co-exist and cooperate with each other but their biologies can't co-mingle ,effectively making them different species. Both of these explanations can work whether the Gorn were homegrown in the Beta Quadrant or came from somewhere else.
I have actually very few quibbles with SNW, but I was really disappointed that they were made into Aliens-esque contagious gutbusters. Cause that's so damn tired by now. I'd kinda thought they were leading up to like scary-smart adversary with shocking cultural practices.
Cool video. I think the Gorn are one species that practices DNA engineering. I kinda wish SNW had chosen a different race to be the boogeyman for this first season. I just dont like a few of the changes they have made to them. Like their spit being able to implant their eggs or them communicating by flashing lights. The new look and how savage they were are the only things i liked about them.
12:25 That sponsor joke was good! -> It took me out of a state of semi-doze/trance. -> Since I have an agressive reaction to the Skillshare/Brillant in_script ads, I moved to reach the keyboard to skip it (stopping just in time when you clarified that was a joke). 12:35 You silly! -> The meme is never about Goku (who by the way has further "forms" beyond the one you showed [Super Saiyan "1"] that is just his second), but instead for Freeza [an alien "cold demon" who does have reptilian/amphibious alternate forms].
I've always like the idea of the Gorn being multiple species from different homeworlds, it adds a unique dynamic to Star Trek lore. I think it always better explains different appearances of Gorn across the canon. I think it would be cool, if they confirmed this in Star Trek SNW, but I doubt it'll happen. I would like see more of the Gorn in Star Trek.
One tiny thing on a great video, as always. I.Q. _shouldn't_ change, up or down. It's been known to be problematic since shortly after its inception; it was intended as a diagnostic tool, not a general assessment of intelligence. Thus the abbreviation: Intelligence Quotient; i.e., it is meant to be a measure of "mental age" over "physical age" to diagnose developmental disorders and identify those who need extra attention, not a high score. And, if it worked (it doesn't, generally, as separate tests will give widely varying "scores" and the question/task selection is subject to many contextual and cultural problems), it wouldn't change from the age of 10 to the age of 50. The ratio, again if it worked, would stay the same. If your I.Q. is 150, your ratio is 1.5 to 1, "mental age" to "physical age." This is all a digression, as more granular and reliable evaluations are used nowadays in cognitive science, and their purpose has not been as co-opted by popular science. Apologies if you know all this and were speaking informally, I'm just fascinated by intelligence and our limited understanding of it, as you seem to be with your mention of dogs, birds and the plausibility of reptiles possessing skills similarly.
I think there is a simple explanation for the discrepancy between the Gorn of Strange New Worlds and the other appearances of the Gorn. Simply put, they weren't quite as successful as were were during their evolutionary development. Where we as the dominant human species successfully murdered all our competition, the Gorn were less so. As such, in the modern day of Trek, they exists as a society of multiple species from the same world. The Gorn the Kirk and Archer Enterprise encounter are from a different Gorn species that the Pike Enterprise with the latter being considerably more aggressive and violent than the former.
As I understand it, it sounds like the Gorn’s reproduction cycle is more like the Magog’s from the Gene Roddenberry’s Andromeda Series from 2000. As they both take hosts from other species to impregnate by biting the said hosts and when the young are ready to be born they eat their way out of the hosts. And some are just taken for food.
Something notable about Xenomorphs (Aliens) which may be relevant to the Gorn (and connect to the "multiple species") idea. Xenomorph take on certain traits of their hosts. Mostly this is all size/shape; but has also in some depictions meant other traits as well. It stands to reason that if they are borrowing from Aliens for the Gorn, they may use this to explain all the disparity in the species. Perhaps there is a version of Gorn which has developed live birth (and possibly even the faceted eyes) through breeding in a specific area of space. Developing live births (as referenced in the Kelvin timeline) could potentially lead to more peaceful Gorn once they no longer need hosts to mate. McCoy could have also been talking out of his ass, or could have been referring safely retrieving Gorn young from an unwilling host. I have also seen the faceted eyes as actually a kind of goggles some Gorn wear. I think this was on Star Trek Online...but it's been a while since I have played that. While I prefer my Gorn with bug eyes (makes them really unique among reptile aliens), I do appreciate this as a solution to the varied eye depiction. If I'm right about what they are doing with this Xenomorph inspired depiction, it could be used to lead to the Arena/Lower Decks style Gorn eventually in a civil war with the more bestial ones in SNW and eliminating them.
Could you do a vid on the Xenomorph? Love to hear your thoughts on their biology! Especially on the subject of H.R. Geiger’s concept of biomechanical organisms
it's strange but i find the gorn cute...trying to think why, i think it's because the cheap costume doesn't flex much and it doesn't look like they can really close their mouths which makes them less scary. i also think the klingon ambassador gorn in star trek online is fun to watch in action because he's probably the most violent diplomat i've ever seen 😀
Wait, so Gorn children are capable of infecting organisms with their eggs (which are also fertilized)? Is that something we've seen in the real world? I love STW it's just that the Gorn sometimes make me scratch my head.
Dude, you crack me up! Hahahaha 😂 ...much like today's sponsor... Skills... nah, I'm just kidding. Hahaha ...Lil baby boii!! 👶 Hahahaha At first glance, you have a very serious look, but you are hilarious. Hahaha
Another great informative video Tyler.Maybe your right,as seen in the hilarious commercials of KIRK reliving his glory days with a living room pillow fight with his aging GORN nemesis,perhaps the traits we have in common like aging and shortness of breath can eventually unite us.But if my daughter ever dated a GORN and got pregnant,it's time for daddy to load up the plasma shotgun !
"Unfortunately the crew of the downed federation vessel were taken in a gorn raid. And speaking of raid, let's take a minute to talk about today's sponsor..."
The Gorn would have been us were it not for that big rock, 65 million years ago, eh!! With that "head start" maybe we'd (actually they'd) have the galaxy colonized by now. ;D LOL
as usual, the ending made me smile, thanks a lot ALSO, joke telling, like any kind of telling, is a skill, and if you want to master such skills yourself, allow me to direct you to the OrangeRiver youtube channel.
I gave my own theory on the Gorn but i'd just like to say another amazing video. Always well thought out, you have a distinctive presentation style. You always have some thoughtful humour in your videos but the skillshare moment had us all going. Comedy gold.
I wish you had gone over how the Gorn joined the Klingons in STO - its a neat story. Really fits them. Also I love the rumor that the female of the species is the bigger one.
I personally think just like the discovery Klingons, don't redesign then, make them look better sure but to redesign them is pointless, if you don't like how old school they look just dont use them
The difference is that Romulans don't lay eggs in your body, and their hatchlings don't violently rip out of you and eat you! There is no redemption for a species that does that to sentient beings! I'm with La'an on this one!
I wonder if they simply didn't see other beings as sentient or sapient until after SNW and were like "oh shit yeah let's not inhabit our hatchery worlds with people". I think the Gorn as a species or collection of species could be a very interesting antagonist if done well. Having something so alien, something so seemingly malevolent, turn to be mistaken can be interesting.
@Micha-qv5uf Not necessarily. Self-Awareness and intelligence aren't tied to each other. Furthermore, we're talking about a cultural perception here, not something that's provable; it doesn't need to be an objective fact that something isn't sapient for others to believe that thing isn't sapient.
I like the idea, from STO I think that Gorn have genetic memory of sorts and they 'remember' worlds where the Hegemony had been and held a planet as their own.
I admit I'm biased, but my favorite version of the Gorn is the one from the Star Fleet Battles line of boardgames. The Gorn are three species who are so genetically close they are speculated to have evolved from a common ancestor..but not in their homeworlds. There is no fossil evidence of any Gorn inhabiting their three homeworlds (Gh'Dar I, II and III) going back further than roughly 15,000 years. Where the Gorn originally evolved and who transplanted them to their current region of space is unknown. The three species discovered each other early in their spaceflight era, and formed the Gorn Confederation. The Confederation is located coreward of the Romulan Empire, and the Gorn have fought the Romulans since before either polity developed warp drive. Centuries of skirmishing with the ever-aggresive Romulans resulted in a paranoid, defensive mindset in the Gorn prior to contact with the Federation, explaining their 'shoot first ask questions later' reaction to discovering Federation colonists on Cestus III.
@@swirvinbirds1971 Me too. I watched TAS as a kid, but never saw any live-action Star Trek until after I'd been playing SFB for years. I watched 'Trek canon solidify from TNG on, but it never interested me nearly as much as 'my' Star Trek:SFB/the SFU.
No way the Gorn used the mycelial network. In Discovery's last season, the USS Discovery couldn't jump to DMA Alien's location because the mycelial network thinned out to the point of uselessness past the galactic barrier.
@@adolfodef First, we know from the ISS Charon that it doesn't matter what universe or timeline they used, because the mycelial network connects them all, and if it is damaged in one reality it's damaged in all of them. Second, the mycelial network doesn't thin out past the galactic barrier because of traffic, but because of the lack of matter. The mycelial plane is the Universe's recycling bin. Where there's a lot of matter, it's thick and dense, but where there's not a lot of matter, it's thin, to the point of uselessness. Stamits explains all of this in Season 4.
@@darkaxel1991 Except that Intergalactic Space is not "empty of stars". There are "bridges" between the Milky Way Galaxy, Andromeda and the other dozen of galaxies of the local group. The median distance between this "scattered stars" is hundreds of times higher than on the galactic disk, but the actual matter distribution is only 1/10 or so (once you include invisible gas, dust and dark matter). It is all a "matter" (ha, pun!) of scale and use: Just a few on the "block" or "region" of the mycelial network going between galaxies will thin it out quick [something that already happened, given that the Gorn are already here on the Milky Way (and/or went to another galaxy for/from colonization efforts). -> This does not change the fact that the Milky Way is "locked out" of trans_galactic travel [at least with this method], but it may be useful for lore reasons.
I think the reason why the Gorn are seen as so diverse or here, there, and everywhere when it comes to their race is because no one in the Star Trek universe really sat down and clarified what the H#ll they were doing with the species. I mean, it was really a, "ok, we need a space monster, so I guess we'll just use this Gorn creature here. Oh yeah, we have to use a human man in a costume, but the visibility isn't that great in the costume, so let's make them a lumbering species, etc." Star Trek strange New Worlds comes along with all the great CGI effects and now it's more along the lines of, "oh, ok, let's make the infents pop out of the chest of various species as a means of reproducing like the ALIENS xenobiological aliens; the fanboys will love that!" The Klingons by comparison were much more thought-out. The Gorn were at best, an minor consideration, and that's my biggest problem with Star Trek. They did the Gorn wrong.
i think we can sorta simplify the "why do Gorn look so different on a given day" from just the fact that their government is called a "Hegemony". It's more than likely there are a number of different worlds in different systems with different ways of rearing their young. This would make each different Gorn world like it's own region or small nation. So unlike most species/races they probably don't have a "home" planet per say, but rather a "Capital" planet of sorts. So you could potentially have a group or faction of Gorn from one sector be extremely different from others in another sector just due to the planet they were spawned on. Though another supposition is that the Gorn seen in Strange New Worlds is either a genetic offshoot or the Gorn version of Jem'Hadar. Literal shock troops being bred in case of a potential war. Something they probably use on a constant basis to keep pesky intruders from snooping around too hard, hence all the various hunting/raiding parties. But until we get more information it's just a thought/idea.
You missed adding crucial information to this video. Martin the GEICO gecko hails from that part of the galaxy. Also Tchunka, the irradiated homeworld of the Krogan resides there as well. You also forgot to mention that Gorn Space is also a popular vacation destination for the Voth. Sigh! 😕 🤪
Amazing that Fredric Brown actually rewrote the short story to fit Star Trek. He was a great writer. Science fiction and other writers used to do TV writing a lot until the 1980s when the Television & Screen Writer's Guild got it restricted to only guild members.
Mr. Brown also wrote fiction in several other genre and was perhaps best known in his time for his pulp crime fiction, such as 'The fabulous Clipjoint' I remember him best as the master of the very short story, which were often less than ten pages and were clever exercises in logical paradox and reasoning; puzzle stories if you will.
The purpose of the gore was to tell a story about Kirk's mercy and how it would advance our civilization All the other instances of the Gorn in all the franchises don't do this, and so remain like all the other bad science fiction that Roddenberry tried so hard to get away from (not always successfully). "No. No, I won't kill you. Maybe you thought you were... protecting yourself... when you attacked the outpost. No, I won't kill him! Do you hear? You'll have to get your entertainment someplace else!"
I strongly hope that we've only encountered one Gorn species in Strange New Worlds so far. They used to be my favorite species. The current version kind of repulses me - not just because of the obvious reasons - as this is a) just (for now) disregarding canon and established designs and b) creating a version of the Gorn that serves as nothing else but monsters in Alien-fashion. Something the audience can easily identify as should-be-feared. And THAT is so much at odds with Star Trek's philosophy of understanding and peaceful cooperation, it truly makes me feel sad. Some novels even placed the Gorn as a Federation ally around the late 24th century, with some Gorn having been accepted to Starfleet. I hope we'll get to see that at some point.
I just found your channel and started watching you, and I gotta say: Y'all really give this Tennessean hope! LOL! I get so tired of other southerners' ultra-orthodox Evangelicalism and here where I am, we're surrounded by idiots that insist, "our grandfathers weren't monkeys!" And I love that you get all nit-picky about this series escapist, fantastical misunderstanding of evolution! Thanks for nerding out with us, can't wait to see the rest of your shit!
How about just saying they are one species but many sub species created by adaptation to various climates (i.e., worlds in this case)? You can tell which planet they are from based on their appearance. They can interbreed viable offsprings. And don’t be fooled by their slow movements, they are quite capable of bursts of speed if needed like our own reptiles.
The video was an excellent exploration of reconciling the continuity issues with the Gorn. Thank you! I hope to see them again on the screen one day. Also, that fake sponsor segue was hilarious 😂. Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you, friends. ✝️ :)
Favorite aliens of all time. Never will forgive TNG for not including the Gorn in at least 3 episodes in 7 seasons. They look like Dinosaur warriors. On their planet no asteroid ever smashed into their planet. The Dinosaurs never died out. Never got to see a Gorn battlecruiser. Don't buy all the computerized Trek crap. SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
So, what do you all think? Are the Gorn multiple species from different homeworlds or the same species that practices genetic engineering?
It would fit why their appearance has changed so much from sighting to sighting of the Horn in Trek canon 👍
Multiple species
Both😉🖖🏻
A lot of the SNW version of the Gorn just screams "Augment Crisis", especially when coupled with the narrative thread of La'an and Una and genetic engineering among their species.
Although not one of the theories that have been suggested. I could imagine that the Gorn were taken to their own colony as curiosities by an older race who didn't realise how intelligent or dangerous they were. They then drove off or took over the colonies, evolving distinct adaptations to each individual world before then being reunited. Though the homeworld would be important, the colonies could maintain their own importance if they were the ones to develop space flight first and rediscover the homeworld. Five Systems, five Gorn types.
Given that we know that the Cestus IV colony has been re-established, and presumably under some sort of shared-sovereignty arrangement with the Gorn, and that they play baseball there, an idea that I really like is that there's been some cross-cultural exchange on that planet, and that Cestus IV now has a thriving Gorn baseball league.
and then there's a gorn equivalent of jackie robinson to be the first to play in the human league
Due to their lack of quickness baseball may not be their game.
@@napatora The Montreal Royals! Leave it to Canadians to show them the way! ;-]
The Gorn do lots of cultural exchange in Strange New Worlds too. What could be a better sign of trust than allowing another species to look after your children for you? The unfortunate consequences are just a cultural misunderstanding. 🤣
The Gorn don't have to be quick in baseball if they hit a home run on every at bat!
Clearly, the other galaxy that the Gorn come from is "Far Far Away", when their genetic line split from that of the Trandoshans, evidenced by the "lightsword" seen on the Gorn caprain's belt in the TOS episode "Arena". =)
Great video, loved the Skillshare fake-out! Keep up the good work.
I like that.
They should never have reintroduced the Gorn as being known of prior to "Arena". It renders a lot of what Spock says during that episode contradictory.
That mycelial network joke never gets old. Great video man.
This is true and brain automatically plays it now!!!
@@Arcyis well yeah I only discovered channel in the last 12 months and didn't get it then worked it out AND IT GROWS ON YOU 😂
For anyone who's wondering: ruclips.net/video/V1474KVXeF8/видео.html
What if there is a worldwide mycelial network and we actually co-exist on a plant with a super intelligence that thinks we are a symbiotic parasite.
i have come to the conclusion that i absolutely hate how the gorn were depicted in strange new worlds.
It's certainly _a decision_ lol
"As well as coughing sounds resembling the throat clearing of a seasoned chain smoker" Dude I about choked to death on my cigarette when you said that! ! Your sense of humor and wit really connects with me. Love watching your videos man, your knowledge of Star Trek is the best I've seen.
Credit to my script editor for that one! Haha. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Yeah I don't see how the xenomorphic Gorn of SNW would even be tolerated by the Federation, let alone the Romulans and Klingons they're right next to.
The Gorn of Strange New Worlds seem to be capable of taking care of themselves beyond just being tolerated, though.
First! Love your channel! :D
Actualy Greek Mythology was influenced by the Gorn🦖
Are they really ‘cold-blooded’ or are they poikilothermic. As killers, they may be described as ‘cold-blooded’ due to their apparent lack of emotions or hesitance in taking the lives of others. They apparently need little motivation.
O.K. I'm going to take a crack at the question. It is possible that the Gorn look like separate species but because of adaptations to varied regional environments on their homeworld, they appear different much like humans from different parts of Earth look dissimilar but are still the same species. However, all humans reproduce the same way. If one ignores the fact that the real reason Gorn have multiple reproduction techniques is because of poor writing/continuity, then the one homeworld idea seems less likely. The other extreme in concepts is multiple species evolving on the same planet. Of course the Xindi set the precedent in Star Trek so the idea has legs. Except given the reptilian nature of Gorn evolution It's most likely that one species would eventually dominate genetically much like Homosapiens replaced Neanderthals. The Xindi were genetically unique from one another and wouldn't necessarily have to compete for the same resources or environments. But again there is the multiple forms of reproduction for the Gorn to explain.
As the age of Gorn civilization is a bit of a mystery, I believe there are two possible explanations that fit the facts.
1. The Gorn were once a single species that, prior to developing FTL, colonized nearby star systems and the satellites they inhabited had an environment sufficiently alien to their biology that they adapted to these conditions and over a long period evolved separately from their counterparts on other worlds. Then were re-united after the invention of warp drive.
2. The Gorn were a single species that, with the creation of warp drive, colonized nearby planets. And, in order to be able to exist on as many different worlds as possible, genetically altered the colonists instead of "terra"-forming the worlds. With the genetically "pure" Gorn providing the hegemonic influence.
Which means they can co-exist and cooperate with each other but their biologies can't co-mingle ,effectively making them different species.
Both of these explanations can work whether the Gorn were homegrown in the Beta Quadrant or came from somewhere else.
Why couldn't they have come from one of the Magellanic Clouds? That gives them extra galactic status with out them being too far away.
I have actually very few quibbles with SNW, but I was really disappointed that they were made into Aliens-esque contagious gutbusters. Cause that's so damn tired by now. I'd kinda thought they were leading up to like scary-smart adversary with shocking cultural practices.
Cool video. I think the Gorn are one species that practices DNA engineering. I kinda wish SNW had chosen a different race to be the boogeyman for this first season. I just dont like a few of the changes they have made to them. Like their spit being able to implant their eggs or them communicating by flashing lights. The new look and how savage they were are the only things i liked about them.
Yeah, more DC Fontana and less HR Giger would be better.
Would have been cool if they just made a new species of alien in BNW instead of making the Gorn have crazy breeding camps.
12:25 That sponsor joke was good! -> It took me out of a state of semi-doze/trance.
-> Since I have an agressive reaction to the Skillshare/Brillant in_script ads, I moved to reach the keyboard to skip it (stopping just in time when you clarified that was a joke).
12:35 You silly! -> The meme is never about Goku (who by the way has further "forms" beyond the one you showed [Super Saiyan "1"] that is just his second), but instead for Freeza [an alien "cold demon" who does have reptilian/amphibious alternate forms].
Mycelial Network you say? 🤔🤔
This was great! I like the idea of several related species.
No..they cannot. "orders exterminatus on all gorn"
@@Arcyis no fool. This is exterminatus.ruclips.net/video/NNc242mbiUs/видео.html
I've always like the idea of the Gorn being multiple species from different homeworlds, it adds a unique dynamic to Star Trek lore. I think it always better explains different appearances of Gorn across the canon. I think it would be cool, if they confirmed this in Star Trek SNW, but I doubt it'll happen. I would like see more of the Gorn in Star Trek.
Let's hope it will still happen!
Your wish has been granted!
Lower Decks expands on the Gorn nicely.
Gorn but not forgotten...
I think i remember making a chain smoker comment on CBS's page XD well played, im sure others did aswell
As someone who once owned a pet lizard, I can definitely say that the Gorn have the possibility of becoming good friends.
One tiny thing on a great video, as always.
I.Q. _shouldn't_ change, up or down. It's been known to be problematic since shortly after its inception; it was intended as a diagnostic tool, not a general assessment of intelligence. Thus the abbreviation: Intelligence Quotient; i.e., it is meant to be a measure of "mental age" over "physical age" to diagnose developmental disorders and identify those who need extra attention, not a high score. And, if it worked (it doesn't, generally, as separate tests will give widely varying "scores" and the question/task selection is subject to many contextual and cultural problems), it wouldn't change from the age of 10 to the age of 50. The ratio, again if it worked, would stay the same. If your I.Q. is 150, your ratio is 1.5 to 1, "mental age" to "physical age."
This is all a digression, as more granular and reliable evaluations are used nowadays in cognitive science, and their purpose has not been as co-opted by popular science. Apologies if you know all this and were speaking informally, I'm just fascinated by intelligence and our limited understanding of it, as you seem to be with your mention of dogs, birds and the plausibility of reptiles possessing skills similarly.
Today I learned something. Thank you for writing this
I finally get the mycelial network bit! That show was rough after season 2.
Gornville?, Gorntopia, Gornadelphia, Gornwall, Gornborough, Gornica, Gorntown, perhaps?
He said it. He said the thing!
I was genuinely happy about you getting a sponsor for this episode and you pulled a fast one on me😂
Most videos on RUclips always seem to have this exact same sponsor.
I think there is a simple explanation for the discrepancy between the Gorn of Strange New Worlds and the other appearances of the Gorn. Simply put, they weren't quite as successful as were were during their evolutionary development. Where we as the dominant human species successfully murdered all our competition, the Gorn were less so. As such, in the modern day of Trek, they exists as a society of multiple species from the same world. The Gorn the Kirk and Archer Enterprise encounter are from a different Gorn species that the Pike Enterprise with the latter being considerably more aggressive and violent than the former.
Skillshare-💀
After watching DS9 for the 4th time, can you please talk about the Tzenkethi and the Tzenkethi war?
As I understand it, it sounds like the Gorn’s reproduction cycle is more like the Magog’s from the Gene Roddenberry’s Andromeda Series from 2000. As they both take hosts from other species to impregnate by biting the said hosts and when the young are ready to be born they eat their way out of the hosts. And some are just taken for food.
Something notable about Xenomorphs (Aliens) which may be relevant to the Gorn (and connect to the "multiple species") idea.
Xenomorph take on certain traits of their hosts. Mostly this is all size/shape; but has also in some depictions meant other traits as well. It stands to reason that if they are borrowing from Aliens for the Gorn, they may use this to explain all the disparity in the species. Perhaps there is a version of Gorn which has developed live birth (and possibly even the faceted eyes) through breeding in a specific area of space. Developing live births (as referenced in the Kelvin timeline) could potentially lead to more peaceful Gorn once they no longer need hosts to mate. McCoy could have also been talking out of his ass, or could have been referring safely retrieving Gorn young from an unwilling host.
I have also seen the faceted eyes as actually a kind of goggles some Gorn wear. I think this was on Star Trek Online...but it's been a while since I have played that. While I prefer my Gorn with bug eyes (makes them really unique among reptile aliens), I do appreciate this as a solution to the varied eye depiction.
If I'm right about what they are doing with this Xenomorph inspired depiction, it could be used to lead to the Arena/Lower Decks style Gorn eventually in a civil war with the more bestial ones in SNW and eliminating them.
Lil baby Gorns😂 you crack me up 😎🌟
If the Borg can be reasoned with anyone can.
Could you do a vid on the Xenomorph? Love to hear your thoughts on their biology! Especially on the subject of H.R. Geiger’s concept of biomechanical organisms
It happened 🙏🏾
It was definitely time for another mention of the mycelial network!
Pretty sure the Gorn also made a guest appearance on Lost in Space.
Hi video 🔥
God dam I love your video's.
it's strange but i find the gorn cute...trying to think why, i think it's because the cheap costume doesn't flex much and it doesn't look like they can really close their mouths which makes them less scary. i also think the klingon ambassador gorn in star trek online is fun to watch in action because he's probably the most violent diplomat i've ever seen 😀
Like always nicely done video, I still think the Tholians ARE NOT going to be friends anytime soon.
I think The Gorn using hosts to infect then birth them sounds a bit odd I suppose they are Aliens though
Wait, so Gorn children are capable of infecting organisms with their eggs (which are also fertilized)? Is that something we've seen in the real world?
I love STW it's just that the Gorn sometimes make me scratch my head.
Dude, you crack me up!
Hahahaha 😂 ...much like today's sponsor... Skills... nah, I'm just kidding. Hahaha
...Lil baby boii!! 👶
Hahahaha At first glance, you have a very serious look, but you are hilarious. Hahaha
Another great informative video Tyler.Maybe your right,as seen in the hilarious commercials of KIRK reliving his glory days with a living room pillow fight with his aging GORN nemesis,perhaps the traits we have in common like aging and shortness of breath can eventually unite us.But if my daughter ever dated a GORN and got pregnant,it's time for daddy to load up the plasma shotgun !
"Unfortunately the crew of the downed federation vessel were taken in a gorn raid. And speaking of raid, let's take a minute to talk about today's sponsor..."
👀
The Gorn would have been us were it not for that big rock, 65 million years ago, eh!! With that "head start" maybe we'd (actually they'd) have the galaxy colonized by now. ;D LOL
naw ... merely an example of more modern design & far better budget
Time Trap from Star Trek The Animated Series also depicts how the Gorn and other species can get along.
Micylial network!!
as usual, the ending made me smile, thanks a lot
ALSO, joke telling, like any kind of telling, is a skill, and if you want to master such skills yourself, allow me to direct you to
the OrangeRiver youtube channel.
LOL at the Skillshare joke. You got me :)
You just made my lunch break thanks man. I'm still digging the wolverine beard too.
The Skillshare gag earned you a sub.
Woo hoo! Friday, Orange River, Trek!!!
@@subraxas Yep... It's been a busy few ... well, months I think ...
I thought it was a Sleestak
Great video,Tyler!
I really feel that Doctor Who did the Gorn-concept better, with the Silurians. Just saying.
I enjoy your content.
Peace!
\o/
I gave my own theory on the Gorn but i'd just like to say another amazing video. Always well thought out, you have a distinctive presentation style. You always have some thoughtful humour in your videos but the skillshare moment had us all going. Comedy gold.
Mmm, Popplers, I mean Gorn...kinda neat how they are comparable.
Gorn's gonna Gorn. Great video btw. Thanks, Tyler.
I wish you had gone over how the Gorn joined the Klingons in STO - its a neat story. Really fits them. Also I love the rumor that the female of the species is the bigger one.
In many Earth reptiles, females are larger than males, such as pythons.
10:17 You say "clear homage", and I say lazy writers stealing plots.
I personally think just like the discovery Klingons, don't redesign then, make them look better sure but to redesign them is pointless, if you don't like how old school they look just dont use them
The difference is that Romulans don't lay eggs in your body, and their hatchlings don't violently rip out of you and eat you! There is no redemption for a species that does that to sentient beings! I'm with La'an on this one!
I wonder if they simply didn't see other beings as sentient or sapient until after SNW and were like "oh shit yeah let's not inhabit our hatchery worlds with people".
I think the Gorn as a species or collection of species could be a very interesting antagonist if done well. Having something so alien, something so seemingly malevolent, turn to be mistaken can be interesting.
They'd kinda figure that animals or non sentient spieces wouldn't be able to build space ships though..
@Micha-qv5uf Not necessarily. Self-Awareness and intelligence aren't tied to each other. Furthermore, we're talking about a cultural perception here, not something that's provable; it doesn't need to be an objective fact that something isn't sapient for others to believe that thing isn't sapient.
and were did they go, where did they come from conton eyed joe
It is amazing to me how you put together all this information. I have watched Star Ttek since the tos in 60's but I can not remember all this stuff 👍🏼
Much Respect to you our elder in the fandom of StarTrek.
@@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886 thank you Have a great day
Again a perfect start of my weekend, Tyler. But of my holidays as well! Thanks Tyler!
This was well thought out. I enjoyed this video.
The skillshare joke was top notch
Its always great to get home from work on Fridays and have an OrangeRiver video waiting to be watched.
Well done again Tyler.
Live long and prosper. 🖖
Thank you Kevin!
I would love to see a battle between the Klingons and the Gorn.
I've always felt like the Gorn became The Breen the shape of the helmet matches the shape of a Gorn's head.
I hope the Breen always remain a mystery tho that's what makes them so fascinating... Tyler's Breen video was really good
I like the idea, from STO I think that Gorn have genetic memory of sorts and they 'remember' worlds where the Hegemony had been and held a planet as their own.
B-canon be like "All these humans with stuff on their foreheads are completely separate species... but those lizards must be related, clearly."
Lmfao
I only ever knew about the super-slow species. lol.
🖖
I admit I'm biased, but my favorite version of the Gorn is the one from the Star Fleet Battles line of boardgames. The Gorn are three species who are so genetically close they are speculated to have evolved from a common ancestor..but not in their homeworlds. There is no fossil evidence of any Gorn inhabiting their three homeworlds (Gh'Dar I, II and III) going back further than roughly 15,000 years. Where the Gorn originally evolved and who transplanted them to their current region of space is unknown. The three species discovered each other early in their spaceflight era, and formed the Gorn Confederation. The Confederation is located coreward of the Romulan Empire, and the Gorn have fought the Romulans since before either polity developed warp drive. Centuries of skirmishing with the ever-aggresive Romulans resulted in a paranoid, defensive mindset in the Gorn prior to contact with the Federation, explaining their 'shoot first ask questions later' reaction to discovering Federation colonists on Cestus III.
Imagine centuries of conflict with Romulans, and then you encounter Vulcans.
You probably wouldn't bother to ask questions.
I prefer the whole SFB timeline to the mess of Cannon Trek.
@@swirvinbirds1971 Me too. I watched TAS as a kid, but never saw any live-action Star Trek until after I'd been playing SFB for years. I watched 'Trek canon solidify from TNG on, but it never interested me nearly as much as 'my' Star Trek:SFB/the SFU.
No way the Gorn used the mycelial network. In Discovery's last season, the USS Discovery couldn't jump to DMA Alien's location because the mycelial network thinned out to the point of uselessness past the galactic barrier.
They used the mycelial network of another timeline (or parallel universe), that had not experienced as much "trafic" to get "thinned" out of service.
@@adolfodef First, we know from the ISS Charon that it doesn't matter what universe or timeline they used, because the mycelial network connects them all, and if it is damaged in one reality it's damaged in all of them. Second, the mycelial network doesn't thin out past the galactic barrier because of traffic, but because of the lack of matter. The mycelial plane is the Universe's recycling bin. Where there's a lot of matter, it's thick and dense, but where there's not a lot of matter, it's thin, to the point of uselessness. Stamits explains all of this in Season 4.
@@darkaxel1991 Except that Intergalactic Space is not "empty of stars". There are "bridges" between the Milky Way Galaxy, Andromeda and the other dozen of galaxies of the local group.
The median distance between this "scattered stars" is hundreds of times higher than on the galactic disk, but the actual matter distribution is only 1/10 or so (once you include invisible gas, dust and dark matter).
It is all a "matter" (ha, pun!) of scale and use: Just a few on the "block" or "region" of the mycelial network going between galaxies will thin it out quick [something that already happened, given that the Gorn are already here on the Milky Way (and/or went to another galaxy for/from colonization efforts).
-> This does not change the fact that the Milky Way is "locked out" of trans_galactic travel [at least with this method], but it may be useful for lore reasons.
Nice you got a sponsor
I think the reason why the Gorn are seen as so diverse or here, there, and everywhere when it comes to their race is because no one in the Star Trek universe really sat down and clarified what the H#ll they were doing with the species. I mean, it was really a, "ok, we need a space monster, so I guess we'll just use this Gorn creature here. Oh yeah, we have to use a human man in a costume, but the visibility isn't that great in the costume, so let's make them a lumbering species, etc." Star Trek strange New Worlds comes along with all the great CGI effects and now it's more along the lines of, "oh, ok, let's make the infents pop out of the chest of various species as a means of reproducing like the ALIENS xenobiological aliens; the fanboys will love that!" The Klingons by comparison were much more thought-out. The Gorn were at best, an minor consideration, and that's my biggest problem with Star Trek. They did the Gorn wrong.
i think we can sorta simplify the "why do Gorn look so different on a given day" from just the fact that their government is called a "Hegemony". It's more than likely there are a number of different worlds in different systems with different ways of rearing their young. This would make each different Gorn world like it's own region or small nation. So unlike most species/races they probably don't have a "home" planet per say, but rather a "Capital" planet of sorts. So you could potentially have a group or faction of Gorn from one sector be extremely different from others in another sector just due to the planet they were spawned on. Though another supposition is that the Gorn seen in Strange New Worlds is either a genetic offshoot or the Gorn version of Jem'Hadar. Literal shock troops being bred in case of a potential war. Something they probably use on a constant basis to keep pesky intruders from snooping around too hard, hence all the various hunting/raiding parties. But until we get more information it's just a thought/idea.
That skillshare bit was great :)
You missed adding crucial information to this video. Martin the GEICO gecko hails from that part of the galaxy. Also Tchunka, the irradiated homeworld of the Krogan resides there as well. You also forgot to mention that Gorn Space is also a popular vacation destination for the Voth. Sigh! 😕 🤪
I dream of a crossover with Land of the Lost, because Sleestaks look goofier than the Gorn and they travel between dimensions.
@@subraxas I’ll bet we’re all over 50.
@@subraxas Somebody raised you up right.
Amazing that Fredric Brown actually rewrote the short story to fit Star Trek. He was a great writer. Science fiction and other writers used to do TV writing a lot until the 1980s when the Television & Screen Writer's Guild got it restricted to only guild members.
Mr. Brown also wrote fiction in several other genre and was perhaps best known in his time for his pulp crime fiction, such as 'The fabulous Clipjoint' I remember him best as the master of the very short story, which were often less than ten pages and were clever exercises in logical paradox and reasoning; puzzle stories if you will.
The purpose of the gore was to tell a story about Kirk's mercy and how it would advance our civilization
All the other instances of the Gorn in all the franchises don't do this, and so remain like all the other bad science fiction that Roddenberry tried so hard to get away from (not always successfully).
"No.
No, I won't kill you.
Maybe you thought you were...
protecting yourself...
when you attacked the outpost.
No, I won't kill him!
Do you hear?
You'll have to get your entertainment someplace else!"
Gorn young are far more dangerous than adults.
In sto a federation time ship from the 29th century was captained by a gorn
I strongly hope that we've only encountered one Gorn species in Strange New Worlds so far. They used to be my favorite species.
The current version kind of repulses me - not just because of the obvious reasons - as this is a) just (for now) disregarding canon and established designs and b) creating a version of the Gorn that serves as nothing else but monsters in Alien-fashion. Something the audience can easily identify as should-be-feared.
And THAT is so much at odds with Star Trek's philosophy of understanding and peaceful cooperation, it truly makes me feel sad.
Some novels even placed the Gorn as a Federation ally around the late 24th century, with some Gorn having been accepted to Starfleet.
I hope we'll get to see that at some point.
Lacer-tie...or...Lacer-tae
I just found your channel and started watching you, and I gotta say: Y'all really give this Tennessean hope! LOL! I get so tired of other southerners' ultra-orthodox Evangelicalism and here where I am, we're surrounded by idiots that insist, "our grandfathers weren't monkeys!" And I love that you get all nit-picky about this series escapist, fantastical misunderstanding of evolution! Thanks for nerding out with us, can't wait to see the rest of your shit!
The only good gorn is a dead gorn..."loads bolter mag"
See lizard 🦎 people are real out your foil hats on lol 😂
How about just saying they are one species but many sub species created by adaptation to various climates (i.e., worlds in this case)? You can tell which planet they are from based on their appearance. They can interbreed viable offsprings.
And don’t be fooled by their slow movements, they are quite capable of bursts of speed if needed like our own reptiles.
The video was an excellent exploration of reconciling the continuity issues with the Gorn. Thank you! I hope to see them again on the screen one day. Also, that fake sponsor segue was hilarious 😂.
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you, friends. ✝️ :)
12:35 Nice fake-out on the sponsor.
Based on the end of SNW S2E1 I’m guessing we’re getting more Gorn action in the near future.
Favorite aliens of all time. Never will forgive TNG for not including the Gorn in at least 3 episodes in 7 seasons. They look like Dinosaur warriors. On their planet no asteroid ever smashed into their planet. The Dinosaurs never died out. Never got to see a Gorn battlecruiser. Don't buy all the computerized Trek crap. SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!