Great video. Thank you for sharing it. What causes it to fail? I've just taken my out after the dishwasher had tripped the rcd. I can see burned areas and damaged solder on the element just behind the connector.
They can fail spontaneously. They are designed for 230VAC operation. Our UK mains voltage of ten exceeds 245 VAC causing increased dissipation in the heater element. I also see quite a lot of failures at the bottom of the element where scale has accumulated inside the element body so in hard water areas it is well worth periodically descaling the the appliance.
An excellent video MagicSmoke, very clear and comprehensive. I wish I'd seen it when I did the same replacement a few years ago. On a related subject I wondered if you'd come across the E02 error on Bosch dishwashers with the same heat pump. E02 is supposed to be a Heater Relay issue on the control board but there's some vague suggestions online that it can be caused by the heater element or thyristor. I've looked at the control board very closely but there are no visible signs of damage. I think a faulty element would only trigger an E09 error and in theory the thyristor should trigger an E11 but not sure if the newer/cheaper heat pumps are wired up to do that?Before I try desoldering/testing/replacing the relays I wondered if you'd heard of a faulty thyristor on one of these motors causing an E02 error. Any thoughts/suggestions gratefully received.
It can be a failed heater relay, open circuit heating element, thermistor or bad wiring. Check the voltage on the element during the wash to see if it is getting mains power. If not check then check the relay and also the solder joints on the controller PCB. If you feel the water is getting warm then it could be the thermistor. The controller expects to see the water temperature rising after the heating element is turned on. If the temperature does not rise it deduces that the element is getting no power. The temperature could in fact be rising but if you had a faulty thermistor then the controller would not be able to tell. The key thing is to not when the error happens. Thermistors usually throw an immediate error as they usually go open circuit or their resistance is out of bounds.
Thanks@@razenby Its useful to know what the controller is expecting to see before it triggers the error code. In my case the water was not heating up but the error only showed up at the end of the cycle. I'd already checked the wiring, heater element continuity and thermistor resistance which all seemed OK and then took the controller PCB out to visually check the board and heater relays which also seemed OK. Reassembled but still had an E02 error. Took it all apart to try replacing the relays but noticed some blackening/discolouration of the pins in the connector on the PCB for the heater cable. Cleaned them up and gave it one more try and all is good. Maybe all the fidling sorted a loose connector somewhere else but happy its working again.
Siemens new pumps are the same, they include the baggie with the rewiring kit. So basically you pay 70 Euro/Pounds for the included piece of wire and the little print-out. I just crimped two/three times per connector.
Hey Magic Smoke, love the video, it's also exactly what i needed to show me how to replace the pump in my Siemens dishwasher. However, i need advice, my pump, which i bought from the UK has the sensor like the new one you've shown, (and without the harnesses i didn't need it), BUT, when i removed the old one the 3 grey wires came out of the sensor connector, so now i'm stumped to figure out which grey wire goes back to the connector, relative to the connector on the board. Any ideas how i can figure out how to make sure the wires go back in the same holes? cheers in advance.
That is a good question...If it were me I would take a pot-shot and guess and try. Since they are on sending wires I don't believe that t will damage the controller if you guess wrong. However there is a risk. I think it doesn't matter which way around two of them go as the thermistor has no polarity. A clue might be found by checking where the corresponding connections inside the controller. One of the wires is likely to be a AC 0V shield connection.
@@razenby Hey Magic Smoke, Thanks for the quick reply, dishwasher was in the kitchen in bits for most of the day and morning,. However, with your help i managed to fix it (so it seems after testing). I was fortunate enough to have one of the grey wires come out of the connector with the metal clamp thingy (from the connector) still attached, so i only needed to figure out which 2 grey wires were where. Also fortunately, the one with the thingy attached was one of the sensors rather than the power one. (It was number 3 on the connector - that wire going to number 5 on my board connector - only 5 pins on board connector). So opening up the board and looking at where the grey wires went, i was able to determine that, the 'pin' with the transistor was the power controller, or 0V as you say and so therefore the other was the 'other' sensor. So with a little bit of logic, and with your comments above, i deduced that the centre pin on the pump connector was the centre pin on the board (so that was the power connector with transistor - common) and so it fit into place. Seems fine now after a test wash, it heats up, no E09 code and stops when it should, and more importantly no leaks! Cheers!
Excellent video, before purchasing a new heat pump I would prefer to check the resistance of the heating element. Do you know what the resistance value should be?
@@razenby while you´re at it, this might be a good opportunity to also check if there is an open circuit between the heater earth and the power pins. There is a great video on that around.
I have a Siemens dishwasher with the '7 large spades' heater connection. It has a E09 fault which is a heater failure. This video is just what the doctor ordered, thank you. Can you point me in the right direction to buy the conversion loom? I can't find one anywhere. Thank you. Neil
My grey wired NTC plug has broken wires, could you tell me how to determine which are 1, 2 and 3, or where the other end of the cable is connected to, so I can replace completely?
My video on determining the order is coming out Friday. BUT At the pump end label rhe wires p1, p2, p3 - it is written on the plastic. Note it IS possible to put the plug in upside down! So plug it in such that the wires point down as per video above. At the controller end find the 2 yellow and 3 grey wires (the colours seem to vary depending on model). But it should be 5 wires - 2 colour 1 and 3 colour 2. Label these c1, c2, c3 starting c1 adjacent to the other colour (in my case yellow). Wire p1 c1, p2 c2, p3 c3. Worked for me. Verify that the c2 goes to GND on the pcb. The other two.wires go either side. And if you get an E11 then you have either put the plug in upside down (again awesome engineering to allow this!), or you have c1 going to p3 and c3 going to p1 - or some other fault perhaps.even the NTC itself. Hope this helps.
Found this video 2 days too late! Crimping was rubbish. I ended up using wago blocks. Most important thing I found was that those grey ones do need to be in the right order! Otherwise you'll end up with E11 fault!
Glad you got it sorted. It is a crappy thing to have to d -- You bought Siemens and now you really gonna have top pay. These integrated pump and heater element are an ecological disaster..They should be locked up.
@@razenby Those EGO heater elements are available from some online shops, in Germany and further east. Cost about £30, then you can reuse both the pump unit and the heater housing.
In my case it looks like the flux used wasn't washed off properly and this gradually ate away and broke connection from plug to coil. It wasn't salt or other corrosion - wrong side of the tube. I bridged the connection. Back to 20 ohms. Works ... Well except getting the darned pump watertight again is beyond me. I have had enough of so called well engineered products. Switching to another brand. 3rd Bosch variant I have had in 12 years. They aren't cheap - but they certainly are nasty.
Hello. I have bosch dishwasher with this pump. I have E24 error and faucet light ON, It happens 2 minutes after cycle starts. I replaced the drain pump, check all holes and it's good. And the Dishwasher drains all water good. If I open door for a seconds after 1 minutes cycle starts and close again the washer ignores the error and complete the cycle. I read online that can be the Water Heater Element the problem when dishwash system check it. Any experience with the same problem?
Difficult to be sure but this usually relates to a sticking level float indicating that the water hasn't drained. . Depending on how fastidious you are with only putting rinsed plates in the washer. If you are careful it never needs cleaning out but if not is does this every couple of years. Unplug it and tale the LHS cover looking from the font and see if the in feed level float and and sensor bellows are fouled up. If they are you need to remove the parts and get the wife's tooth brush out and clean it all up.
@Magic Smoke I replaced the pump yesterday and the dishwasher now works great again. Do some measurements on old pump and it was defective. Thx for your tutorial very useful.
Cant believe that the heating element sleeve cannot be found for sale ..anyware ? both of these fixes to my mind are expensive when you can buy new one for 250 quid
Hi I have replaced this heater unit as was tripping the MCB but now it runs ok but not heating the water. Would there be a sensor now malfunctioning if so any idea where it is located on model SMV53A00GB/07 cannot see it on the Bosch spares list or maybe a relay. Many thanks best wishes
Double check the wiring. It may have blown the heater relay if the element shorted to ground especially if your system does not have an RCD trip. The thermistor is actually built into the thick film heating element.
I am confused by the red wires. The new harness seems to have three at the controller end but only two at the heater end? Where did the third red wire go? I have a Bosch Serie 8 machine that looks very similar but I have four red wires and two earths. Both red pairs have a low resistance in the range I would expect for heating elements? I wonder if the Zeolith system has two heaters? I am trying to diagnose a heater problem and I am suspecting the thermistor. This is the first video I have found that looks remotely like my machine.
It sounds as though you may have 2 heater wattages on the heater. Do all four wires lead to the same heating element? Are the heater circuits independent of each other. You would expect it to have a common connection and two element connections = three wires. If there are four wires then likely that they may be in series on a 240V machine and parallel on 110V. Buzz them out and see where they go.
@@razenby I found there are two seperate heaters in my high end machine. A 2.8kW band heater like in your video and 1.5kW that looks like part 00658791 that I think heats the Zeolith drying system and is front of the heat pump preventing access from the side. They are driven by three relays, one switches both heater lives and the other two switch the individual neutrals. The relays are driven by four transistors: three NPN switch the lows sides and a PNP switches all the high sides. Seems like they are going for redundancy for safety but I don't see a thermal cutout like the older system.
@@razenby The three grey wires appear to be connect to two identical thermistors. So it seems they have double redundancy all the way to avoid having the thermal cutout but then it relies on the firmware and processor running for safety. Perhaps the MCU needs to regularly toggle a pin to keep the PNP relay transistor on, or something similar.
Just taken my 2012 Neff apart and its already got a cheaper pump so doesnt need the loom etc. Machine was a built in silent 41 db cost 550 at the time.
The wiring kit is supplied with the replacement pump. You cheaper pump is identical but does not fit the NEC. They changed the connector so you would have to by the expensive NEC part. The instructions are shown in the video but I don still have them.
You could but the pin out and connector receptacle shape differs. The connector housing supports the spade crimps during operation and stops them working loose so probably just replace the loom.
Хобби
Thanks for the video bro. Have to replace the pump and your video made it much easier.
I am pleased that you found it useful.
Excellent, exactly what I was looking for. Especially how to fit the NTC gray wire plug in to the new plug. 👍🏻
Glad it helped
Great video, well explained at a nice and easy pace.
Glad it was helpful!
Great help for me fitting the new connectors. Thanks a lot!
You are welcome. Good job.
You did explained very well thanks very much for your help 👍👍😀
Glad it helped
Really good explanation. Thanks!
You're welcome!
Great video. Thank you for sharing it. What causes it to fail?
I've just taken my out after the dishwasher had tripped the rcd. I can see burned areas and damaged solder on the element just behind the connector.
They can fail spontaneously. They are designed for 230VAC operation. Our UK mains voltage of ten exceeds 245 VAC causing increased dissipation in the heater element. I also see quite a lot of failures at the bottom of the element where scale has accumulated inside the element body so in hard water areas it is well worth periodically descaling the the appliance.
Merci, je commence la modification du cablage demain..
You are welcome. Thank you for watching.
An excellent video MagicSmoke, very clear and comprehensive. I wish I'd seen it when I did the same replacement a few years ago. On a related subject I wondered if you'd come across the E02 error on Bosch dishwashers with the same heat pump. E02 is supposed to be a Heater Relay issue on the control board but there's some vague suggestions online that it can be caused by the heater element or thyristor. I've looked at the control board very closely but there are no visible signs of damage. I think a faulty element would only trigger an E09 error and in theory the thyristor should trigger an E11 but not sure if the newer/cheaper heat pumps are wired up to do that?Before I try desoldering/testing/replacing the relays I wondered if you'd heard of a faulty thyristor on one of these motors causing an E02 error. Any thoughts/suggestions gratefully received.
It can be a failed heater relay, open circuit heating element, thermistor or bad wiring. Check the voltage on the element during the wash to see if it is getting mains power. If not check then check the relay and also the solder joints on the controller PCB. If you feel the water is getting warm then it could be the thermistor. The controller expects to see the water temperature rising after the heating element is turned on. If the temperature does not rise it deduces that the element is getting no power. The temperature could in fact be rising but if you had a faulty thermistor then the controller would not be able to tell. The key thing is to not when the error happens. Thermistors usually throw an immediate error as they usually go open circuit or their resistance is out of bounds.
Thanks@@razenby Its useful to know what the controller is expecting to see before it triggers the error code. In my case the water was not heating up but the error only showed up at the end of the cycle. I'd already checked the wiring, heater element continuity and thermistor resistance which all seemed OK and then took the controller PCB out to visually check the board and heater relays which also seemed OK. Reassembled but still had an E02 error. Took it all apart to try replacing the relays but noticed some blackening/discolouration of the pins in the connector on the PCB for the heater cable. Cleaned them up and gave it one more try and all is good. Maybe all the fidling sorted a loose connector somewhere else but happy its working again.
Siemens new pumps are the same, they include the baggie with the rewiring kit. So basically you pay 70 Euro/Pounds for the included piece of wire and the little print-out. I just crimped two/three times per connector.
Are these pumps genuine Siemens OEM parts or a substitute part slipped into the supply chain by an enterprising con-man?
Hey Magic Smoke, love the video, it's also exactly what i needed to show me how to replace the pump in my Siemens dishwasher. However, i need advice, my pump, which i bought from the UK has the sensor like the new one you've shown, (and without the harnesses i didn't need it), BUT, when i removed the old one the 3 grey wires came out of the sensor connector, so now i'm stumped to figure out which grey wire goes back to the connector, relative to the connector on the board. Any ideas how i can figure out how to make sure the wires go back in the same holes? cheers in advance.
That is a good question...If it were me I would take a pot-shot and guess and try. Since they are on sending wires I don't believe that t will damage the controller if you guess wrong. However there is a risk. I think it doesn't matter which way around two of them go as the thermistor has no polarity. A clue might be found by checking where the corresponding connections inside the controller. One of the wires is likely to be a AC 0V shield connection.
@@razenby Hey Magic Smoke, Thanks for the quick reply, dishwasher was in the kitchen in bits for most of the day and morning,. However, with your help i managed to fix it (so it seems after testing). I was fortunate enough to have one of the grey wires come out of the connector with the metal clamp thingy (from the connector) still attached, so i only needed to figure out which 2 grey wires were where. Also fortunately, the one with the thingy attached was one of the sensors rather than the power one. (It was number 3 on the connector - that wire going to number 5 on my board connector - only 5 pins on board connector). So opening up the board and looking at where the grey wires went, i was able to determine that, the 'pin' with the transistor was the power controller, or 0V as you say and so therefore the other was the 'other' sensor. So with a little bit of logic, and with your comments above, i deduced that the centre pin on the pump connector was the centre pin on the board (so that was the power connector with transistor - common) and so it fit into place. Seems fine now after a test wash, it heats up, no E09 code and stops when it should, and more importantly no leaks! Cheers!
Excellent video, before purchasing a new heat pump I would prefer to check the resistance of the heating element. Do you know what the resistance value should be?
Should be around 20 to 30 ohms.
@@razenby while you´re at it, this might be a good opportunity to also check if there is an open circuit between the heater earth and the power pins. There is a great video on that around.
I have a Siemens dishwasher with the '7 large spades' heater connection. It has a E09 fault which is a heater failure. This video is just what the doctor ordered, thank you. Can you point me in the right direction to buy the conversion loom? I can't find one anywhere. Thank you. Neil
The loom is supplied together with the heater element a kit. You can see them all over.
My grey wired NTC plug has broken wires, could you tell me how to determine which are 1, 2 and 3, or where the other end of the cable is connected to, so I can replace completely?
Sorry,I know tha they go into both plugs in the same order but cant remember the orientation.
My video on determining the order is coming out Friday.
BUT
At the pump end label rhe wires p1, p2, p3 - it is written on the plastic. Note it IS possible to put the plug in upside down! So plug it in such that the wires point down as per video above.
At the controller end find the 2 yellow and 3 grey wires (the colours seem to vary depending on model). But it should be 5 wires - 2 colour 1 and 3 colour 2.
Label these c1, c2, c3 starting c1 adjacent to the other colour (in my case yellow).
Wire p1 c1, p2 c2, p3 c3.
Worked for me. Verify that the c2 goes to GND on the pcb.
The other two.wires go either side. And if you get an E11 then you have either put the plug in upside down (again awesome engineering to allow this!), or you have c1 going to p3 and c3 going to p1 - or some other fault perhaps.even the NTC itself.
Hope this helps.
Found this video 2 days too late! Crimping was rubbish. I ended up using wago blocks. Most important thing I found was that those grey ones do need to be in the right order! Otherwise you'll end up with E11 fault!
Glad you got it sorted. It is a crappy thing to have to d -- You bought Siemens and now you really gonna have top pay. These integrated pump and heater element are an ecological disaster..They should be locked up.
@@razenby Those EGO heater elements are available from some online shops, in Germany and further east. Cost about £30, then you can reuse both the pump unit and the heater housing.
In my case it looks like the flux used wasn't washed off properly and this gradually ate away and broke connection from plug to coil.
It wasn't salt or other corrosion - wrong side of the tube.
I bridged the connection. Back to 20 ohms. Works ... Well except getting the darned pump watertight again is beyond me.
I have had enough of so called well engineered products. Switching to another brand. 3rd Bosch variant I have had in 12 years. They aren't cheap - but they certainly are nasty.
Good morning on the three red threads there is a resistance? Thank you
Jolly good.
Hello. I have bosch dishwasher with this pump.
I have E24 error and faucet light ON,
It happens 2 minutes after cycle starts.
I replaced the drain pump, check all holes and it's good. And the Dishwasher drains all water good.
If I open door for a seconds after 1 minutes cycle starts and close again the washer ignores the error and complete the cycle.
I read online that can be the Water Heater Element the problem when dishwash system check it.
Any experience with the same problem?
Difficult to be sure but this usually relates to a sticking level float indicating that the water hasn't drained. . Depending on how fastidious you are with only putting rinsed plates in the washer. If you are careful it never needs cleaning out but if not is does this every couple of years. Unplug it and tale the LHS cover looking from the font and see if the in feed level float and and sensor bellows are fouled up. If they are you need to remove the parts and get the wife's tooth brush out and clean it all up.
@Magic Smoke I replaced the pump yesterday and the dishwasher now works great again. Do some measurements on old pump and it was defective.
Thx for your tutorial very useful.
Cant believe that the heating element sleeve cannot be found for sale ..anyware ? both of these fixes to my mind are expensive when you can buy new one for 250 quid
You can repair with HF and silver loaded epoxy.
Hi I have replaced this heater unit as was tripping the MCB but now it runs ok but not heating the water. Would there be a sensor now malfunctioning if so any idea where it is located on model SMV53A00GB/07 cannot see it on the Bosch spares list or maybe a relay. Many thanks best wishes
Double check the wiring. It may have blown the heater relay if the element shorted to ground especially if your system does not have an RCD trip. The thermistor is actually built into the thick film heating element.
@@razenby Excellent thanks for the information I will check at the weekend. 👌
hello, I can only change the connector with three wires without buying the wiring kit separately. thank you
In theory if you know what you are doing
Unfortunately I do not have the wiring diagram. A question, about the two red threads that become one is a resistance?
Have you got a link to this replacement pump please
Sorry no I haven't got a current one.
I am confused by the red wires. The new harness seems to have three at the controller end but only two at the heater end? Where did the third red wire go?
I have a Bosch Serie 8 machine that looks very similar but I have four red wires and two earths. Both red pairs have a low resistance in the range I would expect for heating elements? I wonder if the Zeolith system has two heaters? I am trying to diagnose a heater problem and I am suspecting the thermistor. This is the first video I have found that looks remotely like my machine.
It sounds as though you may have 2 heater wattages on the heater. Do all four wires lead to the same heating element? Are the heater circuits independent of each other. You would expect it to have a common connection and two element connections = three wires. If there are four wires then likely that they may be in series on a 240V machine and parallel on 110V. Buzz them out and see where they go.
@@razenby I found there are two seperate heaters in my high end machine. A 2.8kW band heater like in your video and 1.5kW that looks like part 00658791 that I think heats the Zeolith drying system and is front of the heat pump preventing access from the side. They are driven by three relays, one switches both heater lives and the other two switch the individual neutrals. The relays are driven by four transistors: three NPN switch the lows sides and a PNP switches all the high sides. Seems like they are going for redundancy for safety but I don't see a thermal cutout like the older system.
@@nophead Interesting thanks. Knowledge absorbed..
@@razenby The three grey wires appear to be connect to two identical thermistors. So it seems they have double redundancy all the way to avoid having the thermal cutout but then it relies on the firmware and processor running for safety. Perhaps the MCU needs to regularly toggle a pin to keep the PNP relay transistor on, or something similar.
Is there another heating element in the machine? I have Error 09
No just one heating element for the water. There is a small PTC block heater in the detergent flap actuator.
@@razenby Thanks for taking the time to reply 👊
Just taken my 2012 Neff apart and its already got a cheaper pump so doesnt need the loom etc. Machine was a built in silent 41 db cost 550 at the time.
Thanks for the info
CAN you share instruction and Link to order wiring kit
The wiring kit is supplied with the replacement pump. You cheaper pump is identical but does not fit the NEC. They changed the connector so you would have to by the expensive NEC part. The instructions are shown in the video but I don still have them.
Seems like it would almost be easier just to add new pins to the original loom rather than installing a new loom?
You could but the pin out and connector receptacle shape differs. The connector housing supports the spade crimps during operation and stops them working loose so probably just replace the loom.
@@razenby what about simply putting individual spade connectors on the original loom?
@@daikiryoku You could do that if you know the wiring order. Not sure about the new thermistor connections.