I discovered Efrain many years ago, started studying his methods and found him on social media and for some odd reason he followed my facebook profile. I had a very hard time in my life and made a post reaching out. He messaged me and told me to call him. I talked on the phone with him for hours and in that talk, my whole outlook changed. Beyond the genius of his music and mind, he's a pure caring soul. Terry is so lucky to have spent so much time with him!
Efrain was one of my instructors at musicians institute 91-92...He's a genius, him and Ralph H were the 2 main reasons I went there and thanks to them, now I can really play the drums as well as any other instrument. Give me a bassoon and I will get you a tune out of it...and yes, he is a very stand up good human being.
I like this aspect of Terry Bozzio, explaining deep concept and digging into drum study. I feel it suit best the fact that he have a crazy kit and people will understand more where his playing come from. More content like this please!
Many years ago, I saw Efrain Toro at the Montreal Drum Fest.... I had no idea who he was.... he left a lasting impression on me throughout all the years! I was completely blown away by his clinic. Just, as I've been blown away, by the continual inspiration provided by Mr Terry Bozzio.
Thanks Terry! I did study with Efrain at PIT in 1984. Correct, he is a great educator and a very relax player! ( still working on the relax part my self) Lol
this is lovely. his groove within all this is really compelling. he's not doing math, he's speaking with it. im working towards that in my own way. just lovely
17 years and this video later, I can finally do a proper 5/7 polyrythm and naturally so without really thinking about it. Doesn't it feel go fo finally, truly master something you love? I with that everyone this feeling in their life...! :) I already had this kind of thing naturally inside me as a player because I played with so many non-Westerner in my life. I am truly blessed and humbled...!
Thank you Terry. I had the pleasure of meeting him in the 90s. He explain that everything is built on 9s. He could also command a group to sing and play 3 over 4 over 5 if I remember correctly. Thank you again for this. It's inspiring to say the least. ✌🏼
Lots of comments saying this doesn't work, it totally does. To prove it to myself I taught myself a super common 4 groove, played and heard as 5. Amazing concept.
thank you, Terrysan... this valuable nugget sheds some much appreciated light on your own stellar work & the musics of maestros Tomas of Haake & Daniel of Carey. 🙏🏼
Terry. I forever owe Efraín a debt of gratitude for advancing my understanding of rhythm as a harmonic phenomenon. Musicians in the so-called “developed” West talk easily about pitch harmony but deny that pulse has harmony. We complicate things by talking about polyrhythms as if the rhythm is defined by music - it is the other way around. Rhythm is universal, and humans impose their own musical points of view on it according to cultural prejudice. Intuitively, 5 and 7 do not make sense to Western perception, but Efraín shows us that the two coexist AND sound MUSICAL! There are other rhythmic relationships, of course. Bembé answers the question, “How can I play 7 with 6 (and 4, 3, and 2) and sound musical?” - there are also other permutations that answer the same question.
Thank you so much Terry for this wonderful drum lesson I literally just the other day was corrected about this very thing leaving a comment on a Meinl composition of Navene Koperweise that I had thought he was playing in 5 and the title was literally named 7 now I know why i was thinking that thanks.🤯🙏
@@frelopermanboy7426 The theory that Terry was referring too is what was going on in my head while listening to Navene's song he was playing and I had gotten my rhythms screwed up while listening to it was all I ment.
It’s still in 5, but with some polyrhythms on top to approximate 7. There is a subtle difference between the 4:3 swing ratio and 3:2 swing ratio when playing a j Dilla feel, so at least in that sense 5 is not equal to 7.
Polyrhythms dont really exist in efrains world. He plays all the numbers at once.,i studied with him for three years. Mewning, 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9......but all at once.
@@deebop4904 playing 2,3,4…,9 at once…isn’t that by definition polyrhythm? Maybe you have a difference definition of polyrhythm? What do you think is polyrhythm then?
This hit different…I’ve grown numb to the depth and beauty of digging into these kinds of melodic percussive concepts, precisely b/c we have access to so much content at our ‘RUclips disposal’…but, this short clip captured the depth and beauty of the percussive musical journey…inspirational. #NewRabbitHoleFound
Not sure I understand... when I do it, and keep a steady 5, the 4 over the first 3 are slightly slower than the 3 over the last 2, so it is not an even 7. Is it supposed to be? If I were to subdivide (on paper) each of those 5 beats into 36-tuplets, the first 3 beats would add up to 108. When I divide that by 4, each of those notes get 27 subdivisions. The final two beats add up to 72, which when divided by 3 gives you 24, which make them a tiny bit faster, no?
That's all very cool but to be precise if you do your math you discover that subdivisions in the first 3 beats of 5 are not exactly the same as in the last 2 beats, they sort of get faster in the second part, because 3 notes in "3 over 2" are different in length than 3 notes in "4 over 3". So you have to pay extra attention when playing it or just use this as a starting point to develop a real "7 feel".
Yeah, it's not that "exact" of a concept as the initial 4vs3 and 3vs2 polyrhythms, you have to be a bit elastic with the values... but if you manage that you can make some sick meter changes! :)
I thought the same, thats why I could not actually figure it. Also when he says over 5 is it over quintuplets? I am maybe a bit confused with the terms. Help haha!
the exact way to notate this for a measure of 5/4 would be 4 dotted eighth notes followed by 3 triplet quarter notes. if you subdivide every quarter note into 12 pulses - every eighth note is 6 pulses (2x6=12) - every dotted eighth is 9 pulses (i.e. 50% longer than 6 pulses) - every triplet eighth note is 4 pulses (3 triplet eighths = 1 quarter note) - every triplet quarter note is 8 pulses (2x longer than triplet eighth) so for the 60 pulses in a measure of 5/4 you get 4x9 + 3x8 = 36 + 24 = 60. but if you really wanna go next level 7 over 5, alternate the dotted eighths (de) with the quarter note triplets (q3), with the extra dotted eighth at the end of each measure. pardon my crappy notation, but that would be 5/4 ||: de q3 de q3 de q3 de :|| and if you can actually play that, post a video and tag me cause i definitely can't 😂😂😂
Performance with Bozzio and Efrain Toro on Drum Channel DVD www.drumchannel.com/product/efrainization/ “The best VOD I have ever been a part of! The title describes the profound effect Efrain’s teachings have had on Alex and I” - Terry Bozzio.
5 = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 5 = 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 2/3 + 2/3 + 2/3 * 3/4 ≠ 2/3 The seven involves four dotted 8ths (3/4 of a beat), then a quarter note triplet (2/3 of a beat) for the last three. The values for the last three notes are 1/12 of a beat quicker/shorter. It's a clever and useful rhythmic ruse. I like mixing quarter-note triplets and dotted 8ths (those ratios) in other contexts-- especially in 6/8, 9/8, 12/8.
I've found this myself 5 years ago. I was sure Tony Williams or someone like that found it first, bit I didn't care. It was a personal discovery for me, and it was so fun!
Sorry Terry but no. 5 does not equal7. Your method is a good starting point, but if you divide 7 by 5, it is not the same thing as 3 strokes over the 4 strokes, and 2 strokes over 3. These divisions just do not have the same length. And that is for a very simple reason : stroke 4 of the 5division will land exactly on the 5 of the 7division.This isn't what happens when you divide 7 by 5. Mathematically, stroke 2 of division5 plays later, and stroke 3 even later, stroke 4 much later, almost a 16th note, not at the same time. With this technique, it is easy to figure out where the strokes should approximately be, and get the approximate feel, but that is just not the correct rythmical sentence.
Somehow it reassures me to see that Terry has the same problems counting the single hands in the 4 over 3 as I do...only for me it's the 4s that are so fucking hard for me
Meinl is having a competition . If you can find a spot to add a sponsorable location anywhere on , in or near Terry Bozzio kit , contact Meinl and give them your idea. If you win , you get a weekend stay at the next Hasty Pudding convention with Neil Morse , a Jonas Brother and the winner of the Griner Rodman dunk contest .
This is very interesting. But let’s look at it mathematically. If we are in 5/4 with a tempo of a quarter note = 60 bpm. That would mean 3 beats = 180. Overlaying the 4 over 3 we take 180 divided by 4 = 45. / with the rest of the bar of 5, the beats- that equals 120. Overlaying the 3 over the 2 we divide 120 by 3 and get 40. So technically, if I have this right, when putting this 7/4 overlay in the same time as the 5/4 we have the 2nd half of the thing being a bit quicker: 40 versus 45. Does this make sense? I’m not even sure it does. But I love the idea of these overlays and metric modulation as well. It’s a a study I need to do more of.
I do three over four rhythm with a saying and it goes like this- past the fucking butter past the fucking butter past the fucking butter. And the four over five saying goes like this - past the goddamn fucking butter pass the goddamn fucking butter pass the goddamn fucking butter.
@@alexhicks5889 don't get me wrong, but there are some good drummers who can express and impress with a tiny kit - take Sami Kuoppamäki from Kingston Wall for example
playing 4 over 3 is basically dotted 8th notes, but playing 3 over 2 are in triplets, so I would say 5 does not equals 7, cause you need to be skippin from doted 8ths to triplets to make it equal
I am not the best drummer... but what I heard was the clave 2/3.... the hi hat hits the 2 beats , and on the 3 the first note it's absent while the last two strikes are present
[7by8: you have 14 sixteens... and you play 4 4 3 3] you have a very different ratio of bar divisions than [5by8 you have 10 sixteens and you play 3 3 2 2]. Put in other words 3/14=0,214285714 which is very close (but not equal) to 2/10=0.2..... same with the long notes of the ostinato: 4/14= 0,285714286, and 3/10=0.3, very close.... not equals.... but still a nice optical illusion. If you listen carefully Terry's ostinattos.. try to concentrate only on the bass drum... and you wiill tell the difference... is not the same ostinatto.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Terry is the mad scientist of the drums. Blowing my mind for decades 🤯
And Efrain Toro is his mentor. Love Terry.
Agreed
I discovered Efrain many years ago, started studying his methods and found him on social media and for some odd reason he followed my facebook profile. I had a very hard time in my life and made a post reaching out. He messaged me and told me to call him. I talked on the phone with him for hours and in that talk, my whole outlook changed. Beyond the genius of his music and mind, he's a pure caring soul. Terry is so lucky to have spent so much time with him!
Efrain was one of my instructors at musicians institute 91-92...He's a genius, him and Ralph H were the 2 main reasons I went there and thanks to them, now I can really play the drums as well as any other instrument. Give me a bassoon and I will get you a tune out of it...and yes, he is a very stand up good human being.
❤
That is fucking awesome
Very informative I have been following since the Zappa years As a progressive drummer my self there is always something new to learn and comprehend
I like this aspect of Terry Bozzio, explaining deep concept and digging into drum study. I feel it suit best the fact that he have a crazy kit and people will understand more where his playing come from. More content like this please!
Bozzio showed all musicians how a drum set solo could be executed. Thank you...
Efrian and Bozzio are genius. thank you so much
Many years ago, I saw Efrain Toro at the Montreal Drum Fest.... I had no idea who he was.... he left a lasting impression on me throughout all the years! I was completely blown away by his clinic. Just, as I've been blown away, by the continual inspiration provided by Mr Terry Bozzio.
Make sense! Studied with Efrain in 93-94. Great teacher.
I am a guitar player, and can't stop watching this channel!
Efrain was my Latin teacher at MI and he opened my mind up to all these concepts along with Ralph Humphrey.
I too had Efrain and Ralph as teachers, they were barely there! They were super busy dudes in 87!
Thanks Terry! I did study with Efrain at PIT in 1984. Correct, he is a great educator and a very relax player! ( still working on the relax part my self) Lol
Awesomeness!!! 🥁
I like how you are all humble while still being an animal. TB you are the GOAT!! inspiration for me for 40 years. (1982) Love ya man.Keep at it!!
this is lovely. his groove within all this is really compelling. he's not doing math, he's speaking with it. im working towards that in my own way. just lovely
17 years and this video later, I can finally do a proper 5/7 polyrythm and naturally so without really thinking about it. Doesn't it feel go fo finally, truly master something you love? I with that everyone this feeling in their life...! :) I already had this kind of thing naturally inside me as a player because I played with so many non-Westerner in my life. I am truly blessed and humbled...!
Mind blowing stuff, and yet it makes perfect sense.
Great to see Terry getting back into the swing of things and sharing his master level skills.
Omg, it's so easy! All you need to do is play 4 over 3 and 3 over 2 in a loop.
Thank you!!! 🔥
Really love the way Bozzio verbally articulates his musical perceptions. 🤷🏻♂️😅🥁
Great stuff Terry (and, Efrain)!!!!!...Wonderful "Explanation/Breakdown" for all!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have always admired everything about Terry since day one and always will.
My mind is blown, this is absolutely brilliant
Thank you Terry. I had the pleasure of meeting him in the 90s. He explain that everything is built on 9s. He could also command a group to sing and play 3 over 4 over 5 if I remember correctly. Thank you again for this. It's inspiring to say the least. ✌🏼
Terry!! This ritual and tutorial is so rich
Terry ? The N 1 ! ABSOLUTELY
Now I have a headache... Bozzio uber alles!!
Just awesome -Where else are you going to learn stuff like this!
this melted my mind
Lots of comments saying this doesn't work, it totally does.
To prove it to myself I taught myself a super common 4 groove, played and heard as 5. Amazing concept.
magnifico.
This absolutely blew my mind... amazing
thank you, Terrysan...
this valuable nugget sheds some much appreciated light on your own stellar work & the musics of maestros Tomas of Haake & Daniel of Carey. 🙏🏼
Oh, wow!
he along with Peart, defined drumming in the late 70' and 80's
Thanks for sharing..
Terry. I forever owe Efraín a debt of gratitude for advancing my understanding of rhythm as a harmonic phenomenon. Musicians in the so-called “developed” West talk easily about pitch harmony but deny that pulse has harmony. We complicate things by talking about polyrhythms as if the rhythm is defined by music - it is the other way around. Rhythm is universal, and humans impose their own musical points of view on it according to cultural prejudice. Intuitively, 5 and 7 do not make sense to Western perception, but Efraín shows us that the two coexist AND sound MUSICAL! There are other rhythmic relationships, of course. Bembé answers the question, “How can I play 7 with 6 (and 4, 3, and 2) and sound musical?” - there are also other permutations that answer the same question.
Thank you so much Terry for this wonderful drum lesson I literally just the other day was corrected about this very thing leaving a comment on a Meinl composition of Navene Koperweise that I had thought he was playing in 5 and the title was literally named 7 now I know why i was thinking that thanks.🤯🙏
yeah Navene didn’t do any of this in that video lol. This is entirely different, not sure where you were hearing 5 from.
@@frelopermanboy7426 The theory that Terry was referring too is what was going on in my head while listening to Navene's song he was playing and I had gotten my rhythms screwed up while listening to it was all I ment.
It’s still in 5, but with some polyrhythms on top to approximate 7. There is a subtle difference between the 4:3 swing ratio and 3:2 swing ratio when playing a j Dilla feel, so at least in that sense 5 is not equal to 7.
Polyrhythms dont really exist in efrains world. He plays all the numbers at once.,i studied with him for three years. Mewning, 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9......but all at once.
@@deebop4904 playing 2,3,4…,9 at once…isn’t that by definition polyrhythm? Maybe you have a difference definition of polyrhythm? What do you think is polyrhythm then?
Beautiful breakdown!
This hit different…I’ve grown numb to the depth and beauty of digging into these kinds of melodic percussive concepts, precisely b/c we have access to so much content at our ‘RUclips disposal’…but, this short clip captured the depth and beauty of the percussive musical journey…inspirational. #NewRabbitHoleFound
Into 4ag7 and 5ag7..both similar.. Can't get enough!
Badass!..!,
Not sure I understand... when I do it, and keep a steady 5, the 4 over the first 3 are slightly slower than the 3 over the last 2, so it is not an even 7. Is it supposed to be?
If I were to subdivide (on paper) each of those 5 beats into 36-tuplets, the first 3 beats would add up to 108. When I divide that by 4, each of those notes get 27 subdivisions. The final two beats add up to 72, which when divided by 3 gives you 24, which make them a tiny bit faster, no?
Efraín toro a good surfer,musician and human.
That's all very cool but to be precise if you do your math you discover that subdivisions in the first 3 beats of 5 are not exactly the same as in the last 2 beats, they sort of get faster in the second part, because 3 notes in "3 over 2" are different in length than 3 notes in "4 over 3". So you have to pay extra attention when playing it or just use this as a starting point to develop a real "7 feel".
Yeah, it's not that "exact" of a concept as the initial 4vs3 and 3vs2 polyrhythms, you have to be a bit elastic with the values... but if you manage that you can make some sick meter changes! :)
I thought the same, thats why I could not actually figure it. Also when he says over 5 is it over quintuplets? I am maybe a bit confused with the terms.
Help haha!
@@imix_art No, he means getting 7 over a bar of "5/4" or /8, what-have-you as the denominator.
@@Civilizashum thanks for your message 😊🙌
the exact way to notate this for a measure of 5/4 would be 4 dotted eighth notes followed by 3 triplet quarter notes.
if you subdivide every quarter note into 12 pulses
- every eighth note is 6 pulses (2x6=12)
- every dotted eighth is 9 pulses (i.e. 50% longer than 6 pulses)
- every triplet eighth note is 4 pulses (3 triplet eighths = 1 quarter note)
- every triplet quarter note is 8 pulses (2x longer than triplet eighth)
so for the 60 pulses in a measure of 5/4 you get 4x9 + 3x8 = 36 + 24 = 60.
but if you really wanna go next level 7 over 5, alternate the dotted eighths (de) with the quarter note triplets (q3), with the extra dotted eighth at the end of each measure. pardon my crappy notation, but that would be
5/4 ||: de q3 de q3 de q3 de :||
and if you can actually play that, post a video and tag me cause i definitely can't 😂😂😂
Performance with Bozzio and Efrain Toro on Drum Channel DVD www.drumchannel.com/product/efrainization/
“The best VOD I have ever been a part of! The title describes the profound effect Efrain’s teachings have had on Alex and I” - Terry Bozzio.
ruclips.net/video/l7O9JlZBXts/видео.html
now I'm going to go curl up in a corner and suck my thumb! (brain can't handle!)🤣🤣🤣
Terry … you hurt my head again 😊
I would love to learn more about this stuff, and have watched a bunch of videos like this, but I'm lost after about 5 seconds every time.
5 = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1
5 = 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 2/3 + 2/3 + 2/3
* 3/4 ≠ 2/3
The seven involves four dotted 8ths (3/4 of a beat), then a quarter note triplet (2/3 of a beat) for the last three. The values for the last three notes are 1/12 of a beat quicker/shorter. It's a clever and useful rhythmic ruse. I like mixing quarter-note triplets and dotted 8ths (those ratios) in other contexts-- especially in 6/8, 9/8, 12/8.
🤯 I thought I knew a bit about displacement and polyrhythm, but 5=7? More like the God particle of polies! "Take 5", in 7, just took me for a ride!
This alienates 99 percent of listeners. This is for drum nerds. Like me.
If Terry says Efrain, we obey
Must say mike mayers always surprise me with his brilliant ideas of impressions
Hi Terry! 🤓👍
Tremenjous, Harry as a Boy, simply tremenjous!
I've found this myself 5 years ago. I was sure Tony Williams or someone like that found it first, bit I didn't care. It was a personal discovery for me, and it was so fun!
That's right, also 9 and 6 playing dotted eighths in 9/8, or 9 and 4, playing eight note triplets inside a half note triplet in 4/4
Sorry Terry but no. 5 does not equal7. Your method is a good starting point, but if you divide 7 by 5, it is not the same thing as 3 strokes over the 4 strokes, and 2 strokes over 3. These divisions just do not have the same length. And that is for a very simple reason : stroke 4 of the 5division will land exactly on the 5 of the 7division.This isn't what happens when you divide 7 by 5. Mathematically, stroke 2 of division5 plays later, and stroke 3 even later, stroke 4 much later, almost a 16th note, not at the same time.
With this technique, it is easy to figure out where the strokes should approximately be, and get the approximate feel, but that is just not the correct rythmical sentence.
Bruford y Mastelotto lo hacian en crimson no?
I want to play T's kit
❤
Yes! 2 is3, 3 is 2, 4 is 3
5 is 7
8 is 11
9 is 13
Yes yes yes!
I agree
Somehow it reassures me to see that Terry has the same problems counting the single hands in the 4 over 3 as I do...only for me it's the 4s that are so fucking hard for me
this is like in physics when you learn wave-particle duality
Meinl is having a competition . If you can find a spot to add a sponsorable location anywhere on , in or near Terry Bozzio kit , contact Meinl and give them your idea. If you win , you get a weekend stay at the next Hasty Pudding convention with Neil Morse , a Jonas Brother and the winner of the Griner Rodman dunk contest .
wish i could play in 1/4
5/7 ? WHAT? My brain is smoking. My muscles are having trouble comprehending.
🤘✌️✌️🤘
🌹 💞 💞 💞
Can someone PLEASE take Terry shopping for new shirts?
I understand 🤔
This is very interesting. But let’s look at it mathematically. If we are in 5/4 with a tempo of a quarter note = 60 bpm. That would mean 3 beats = 180. Overlaying the 4 over 3 we take 180 divided by 4 = 45. / with the rest of the bar of 5, the beats- that equals 120. Overlaying the 3 over the 2 we divide 120 by 3 and get 40. So technically, if I have this right, when putting this 7/4 overlay in the same time as the 5/4 we have the 2nd half of the thing being a bit quicker: 40 versus 45. Does this make sense? I’m not even sure it does. But I love the idea of these overlays and metric modulation as well. It’s a a study I need to do more of.
TIMMY RAY FROM FT WORTH TEXAS SAYS I love free drum 🥁 lessons. 🤠👍🤔🖖🤫🏴☠️🏎
I do three over four rhythm with a saying and it goes like this- past the fucking butter past the fucking butter past the fucking butter. And the four over five saying goes like this - past the goddamn fucking butter pass the goddamn fucking butter pass the goddamn fucking butter.
we see it does not need a giant drum kit to impress musically ;-)
He tries to express, not impress. Don't be that way.
@@alexhicks5889 don't get me wrong, but there are some good drummers who can express and impress with a tiny kit - take Sami Kuoppamäki from Kingston Wall for example
It's called 5 EQUALS 7, but in the thumbnail you show it as 7 divided by 5.
It's kinda ironic I have lately while listening to a song in 4/4 or what ever, counting it in threes with some interesting resulting grooves.
Sadly, Efrain has taken down most of his online content.
playing 4 over 3 is basically dotted 8th notes, but playing 3 over 2 are in triplets, so I would say 5 does not equals 7, cause you need to be skippin from doted 8ths to triplets to make it equal
Hit like if you checked playback speed too...
Jesus Christ to start off a video with Bozzio talking about his mentor is like God talking about who he looks up to!
I can do both simultaneously. In fact I can do 7 over 5 over 4 over 3 simultaneously.
I am not the best drummer... but what I heard was the clave 2/3.... the hi hat hits the 2 beats , and on the 3 the first note it's absent while the last two strikes are present
👍
pass, the, and, er is the 4 on the right hand. Pas ,salt,pep on the left is 3.
Pass the salt and pepper
[7by8: you have 14 sixteens... and you play 4 4 3 3] you have a very different ratio of bar divisions than [5by8 you have 10 sixteens and you play 3 3 2 2]. Put in other words 3/14=0,214285714 which is very close (but not equal) to 2/10=0.2..... same with the long notes of the ostinato: 4/14= 0,285714286, and 3/10=0.3, very close.... not equals.... but still a nice optical illusion. If you listen carefully Terry's ostinattos.. try to concentrate only on the bass drum... and you wiill tell the difference... is not the same ostinatto.
He looks like Dustin Hoffman 🤣
These concepts open years of practice 😅..
Maybe sometimes it works, but there were parts that were incredibly messy...
2:3 = "pass-the-but-ter" 4:5 = "wash-the-car-and-wax-it"
I'd lose it if he spoke like Liam neeson lol
This video gave me a headache.
Less talk more demo
I want a diagram, please.
Pretty normal in Afro Cuban rythms...
I just looked in my pants and 5 does NOT, in fact equal 7.