Why is everyone becoming Catholic/Orthodox - KingdomCraft
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- Опубликовано: 20 ноя 2023
- Find a Protestant Church that's DEEPLY rooted in tradition, in terms of beliefs, worship style, and architecture: www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/vie...
Jordan Cooper, a Lutheran seminary president, defending Sola Scriptura: • On Sola Scriptura and ...
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Catholic Gang Represent.
Ex catholic here
Ave Maria
The mob?
Idolatry is a sin repent from that wicked church
@@lhdloverofgod
Explain?
I am Catholic, I love your content Zoomer. I love all of you.
“And we pray that our unity will one day be restored, and they’ll know we are Christians by our love”
As an anonymous Christian member of a particular denomination... I can confidently say that you church will unify with almost all religions/denominations (Mormon, Islam, Hindu, etc.)... but there still will be an opposing side.
@@FireBlockerPro the point is not to unit with all religions, thats anto Christ at the chore.. The point is to be united as the church and body of Christ. The fraze "our unity" refers to the church, the body of Christ, islam or other religions.
As great as that sounds, I think it's clear that the Council of Trent is part of what stands our way
@@ma_yuvari2215 Why not unite the others? Already the Catholic Church is doing so. The Catholic Church has on multiple occasions worked with Islam, Judaism, and Others... It definitely doesn't look that way...
Nah the council of Trent was good
Thanks for creating Christian content for young people these days. I’ve enjoyed quite a few of your other videos. Just to point out two things, God speaks through his Church. It isn’t the Church speaking alone on its own volition. God requires a safe place for the sheep. Not only to find the lost sheep but to bring them to a community of sheep who hear the voice of the Lord and follow it too. And secondly the role of the Church isn’t just to preach the Word which purpose is to save, protect and edify. But to also apply the Word. So the application of the Word of God would be contained in the Sacraments such as the Eucharist, confession etc that give assured salvation by participating in frequently as it keeps the sheep not only together, but collectively clean from sin. You can see them as tools of the Church. It’s not the Church or the Bible, it’s neither one above the other. It’s Church and Bible in harmony. As God first gave us the Church, and then the Bible so as to protect His Church. And ensure the perseverance of faith in difficult times. God bless! And thanks for reading.
It's actually really neat to know that you're Christian! I grew up watching your content and, while I don't watch you and the other guys as much today, I look back on that part of my childhood fondly. But yeah, that's super encouraging to know that you're following Christ. God bless you, man. Hope you have a great week!
thanks bro, you too and God bless ya@@Comrade_Alpaca
Like the first guy said, it’s impactful for a youtuber I used to binge watch all the time be Christian (and so knowledgeable). You know you’re succeeding when Nogla comments on your video
No fucking way
You are an inspiration Nogla! I hope to one day be a hilarious content creator like you who is also open about his faith!
The issue between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches is not one of “we are real, you are fake!” It is simply an issue of divergent tradition. As unfortunate as the Great Schism is, it is in the past.
Also, as a Catholic, I don’t spit on the Protestant tradition and say that they are not true Christians. Anyone who does the will of our Father in Heaven and professes Christ is a true Christian.
I say all this because now is not the time to emphasize our differences, brother. Now is the time to come together and turn the tide against the cultural rot and moral decay that plagues our civilization. It’s the job of Christians everywhere, regardless of what Church you belong to, to be a light to the world, as Jesus commanded.
without a true authority, who is to decide what makes a true Christian and a not true Christian? Could Mormons and JW be true christians?
As Catholics we do believe in a sense that Protestants are part of the Church but are separated brethren. This is in accord ex ecclesiam nulla salus
We affirm Protestant baptism as legitimate.
Protestants aren’t true Christians though. Yeah they aren’t pagans, nor are they heretics, but they aren’t really Christians and will not be saved. This isn’t controversial btw, the VAST VAST VAST majority of people (including Catholics) WILL NOT be saved.
The will of the Father is that you believe on the one He sent. That’s it.
@@eliegbert8121The evidence given is correct, but people's interpretation is usually not quite correct. The Catholic Chatechism (paragraphs 846-848) directly answers this. While it's true that everyone in Heaven will be Catholic (i.e the Catholic Church is the only way to salvation), we don't believe that only people who were Catholic when they were alive can be saved.
Paraphrasing the Chatechism's quote, "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation" (quoting, Lumen Gentium, 16).
Being ignorrant of the Church does not give someone instant salvation- on the contrary, ignorrance makes it more difficult to be saved compared to someone who is Catholic. That's why we, as Catholics, are called to proclaim the truths of the Catholic Church to the world.
The website Catholic Answers has more in-depth answers to this question.
God Bless :)
Great video! I´m Catholic from Honduras, converted from atheism. Tradition was one of the most important things in my convertion. Even inside the Catholic Chuch we are fighting against relativism and modernism, because the abandonment of tradition. But I feel at home now, with a peace I never had before. Atheism, nihilism and hedonism made really, really miserable and depressed. Now life has meaning.
Viva Cristo Rey!
Viva Cristo Rey
Viva Cristo Rey!
Viva Cristo Rey! I’m happy that you managed to escape depression with the Grace of the Lord, your story is very inspiring!
Viva Cristo Rey!!
From a Protestant (but quite ecumenical) brother. May God continue to live in your heart and give you a love for Him and a love for the life He gave you that conquers all that this broken world can throw at you.
Just remember that not all traditions are true. Keep the traditions that are based on scripture, lose the other traditions! Or even better, leave the catholic cult altogether and gain a real faith in Christ, that He actually is sufficient for your salvation!
I think another reason people convert to Catholicism is many prots like myself were taught very specious straw man arguments about Catholicism. When you see those straw men don’t stand up to scrutiny it can really have a big impact.
Amen. I’ve been told that as a Catholic, I’m a pagan polytheist… it truly is amazing to see Protestants so ignorant of Church history and tradition. Welcome home.
I agree, but the same applies to Protestantism, especially when you discover that 95% of the arguments against Protestantism typically target modern non-denominational evangelicalism and not historic Protestantism (Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans, etc.).
@@pedroguimaraes6094 true true. But I was raised as a modern non denominational evangelical Protestant so those arguments still hit home
That’s how it was for one of my Protestant friends who grew up thinking Catholics worship Mary and “believe the pope is above Jesus”
I personally became orthodox but it has the same few Straw man arguments. “Orthodoxy is ethnic” “icons are a violation of the 2nd commandment” “it’s full of Russian spies” “bro just watch Jordan B cooper” “dude you gotta listen to Gavin Ortlund he’s got all the answers bro”
Once you look orthodoxy or Catholicism with an open mind you realize how poorly Protestants argue 😂
@@ofauvi2089 We can say the same about Orthodox and Catholic argumentation. Absolutely no knowledge about Protestantism. The ones who have are usually the most chill about It like Bishop Robert Baron.
Zoomer, you are one of the reasons i came back to faith. Christ is King. May God guide and protect his church and his faithful.
Coming "back to faith" is one thing but being Born Again by the Indwelling Risen Christ is another
@@REVNUMANEWBERN by their fruits you will know them
Same here bro, his vids made me wanna stop being lukewarm
@@gerald.bostian the Spirit did that, for me.
That's great news!! Praying for you right now bro
I was raised Evangelical, discovered Church tradition through Orthodoxy and nowadays am a baptized Catholic. God bless you, Christbros
We love to see it, I love your compilations bro!
Welcome home to the Catholic church. My brother, I hope you stay in the true church. may God bless you and our beloved country, Brazil
My man Vlaspatta! Keep up the hymns/chants bro, love your content!
@vlaspattakaramazov as a Reformed Christian I'm sorry don't follow the evil Pope hes the Anti-Christ.
Mary is a sinner like us don't worship her it's evil.
How do you explain all the heresies done by Catholics like bowing down to statues of Mary and kissing Mary, negating the 2° commandment blatantly, and all unbiblical traditions such as purgatory (which is basically a kinda of heresy since it almost turns the sacrifice of Christ not enough) ?
I was raised evangelical and am now a catechumen for Eastern Orthodoxy☦️
That's spectacular!!!
W
Same brother. May God guide you on your path towards the Church of Pentacost
The biggest W someone can get
I'm an inquirer, but hoping to become a catechumen next month.
I'm protestant but was told by some other protestants that Catholics weren't really saved. I believed it until I actually met Catholics and they explained to me their beliefs. There is so much misunderstanding in the world and I'm glad people like you are talking about these things in your videos in a respectful way.
Too bad they say the same thing about us (that we are not saved). It's a fight between wounded egos.
@@pedroguimaraes6094 Oh, I heard that a lot from other protestants against other protestants on various theological topics, I grew up with evangelicals and while there are some wonderful people I am wide aware of the finger pointing that happens among us. I've been trying to see myself more as a "Christian" and less as a "protestant"
@@Ben-lh7jg CS Lewis is right about "Mere Christianity" i'm convinced that when i die i will see a lot of Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants. In the end of the day, you only need to be united with Christ by faith. That said, i think is much easier to do so as a historic protestant who focused on Sola Scriptura than by being mainly drawn by other secundary (yet important) aspects of the faith like beauty and tradition. If you remove that from Catholics and Orthodox, i'm convinced that you will have in most cases an empty shell, because in order to be united to Christ you need to hear His Word which is the Bible, and that is often neglected by Catholicism and Orthodox.
Moroms will claim they believe the same way Christians do. Roman Catholics will lie to your face also, to win you over to their side.
I'm Anti-Pope and have always held the pope as the Anti-Christ. Can a Catholic go to heaven yes like all turn from that religion and believe in Jesus Christ as the true King repeat your sins, get baptized into the true fath.
Bro this channel actually led me to Catholicism and now I’m a catholic candidate 😂
Same 😂
Maybe we’re in the same class and don’t even know it 😂 Good luck to you brother
@@okj9060 Maybe! Good luck and God bless!
Debunking Protestantism:
No Canon:
1. The Bible is a collection of multiple Books Compiled into one. The Bible itself doesn’t tell us which Books belong. The early Christians argued about what in the Bible, it wasn’t always just passed down. It wasn’t until the Catholic Church at the Council of Rome created a Canon, that we got a Canon, which became the basis for the Protestant one. If you don’t believe the Catholic Church is infallible, how do you know that your Bible Canon is correct Vs all the other possible Canons?
Zoomer’s Response Debunked:
Zoomer says in response that because the Church made the Bible, that means the Church would be greater than the Bible. That’s wrong for two reasons.
1. Let’s use a Protestant argument to debunk his argument. Billy has a list of school supplies. Billy is one day walking back from school when it’s ripped up. Billy’s mom tapes it back together. This does not mean that Billy’s mom is greater than the list. And that’s how Protestant’s sometimes see the Canon. Of course, this doesn’t account for that they wouldn’t even know what the Canon is if they didn’t trust the Church’s infallibility. But anyways, just because the Church Compiled the Bible’s Canon, it doesn’t necessarily mean the Church is greater, the Church serves divine revelation according to Catholic doctrine.
2. The only divine revelation isn’t just Scripture, it’s Tradition as well. Meaning, the Church wasn’t just deciding what was Divine Revelation and still had it.
COUNCIL PROBLEM:
It seems weird to me that Zoomer accepts some early Church Councils, and some of what they say, but denies the rest. These Councils put together the Hypostatic Union, the Trinity, Christology, etc. So the problem is for a Protestant, if you don’t accept these Councils, it’s likely back in the ancient days if there were no Catholic Church, then you would probably still be arguing about these things today. How do you know that these things like the Hypostatic Union are correct if you don’t trust the Catholic Church? Furthermore, a lot of Protestants seem to accept some of what the Church said., but pick and choose other things, which doesn’t make logical sense, or even some things the Councils say while denying other things. Obviously, this makes no sense. You can’t believe that the Church was Protected by the Spirit here, but was wrong here on this important topic, because I feel like it. It doesn’t work that way.
Zoomer’s bad Orthodoxy Vs Catholic Argument:
Bad argument for claiming you can better respect the Catholic and Orthodox Churches by being Protestant. For one, most things the Churches teach are considered heretical by most Protestants. Secondly, while these Churches do consider themselves both to be the One Visible True Church, there is an Invisible connection some have to the Catholic Church. They basically are Catholic without knowing it. This is how Protestants can be saved, for example. Or Orthodox. Beyond this, the Orthodox and Catholics are working together more so and have ended the mutual excommunication. We are called the two Lungs of the Church, and both have valid Sacraments and a valid Priesthood. We believe we’re both coming from the same Church, just that Orthodox are Schismatic, but it’s more complicated than to just say they aren’t part of the Church of Christ, which would be kind of wrong to say from a Catholic perspective.
Interpretation Problem:
Obviously, you’ve probably heard this argument brought up before. Protestants have many Denominations with different interpretations of the Bible. This way, Protestants beleive in many contradicting “Truth” Messages, and all can’t be right, and so have no way of knowing to be correct on an issue. And it’s not just little issues, but agreement in all core issues, like some Protestants claim.
For one:
2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
So, there are hard things to understand in Scripture, that if misunderstood, lead to destruction. That disproves that whole “only important doctrine” argument right here. What criteria makes something a core/not core belief that will or won’t lead to destruction if wrong anyways?
For two: There are many core beliefs that can lead to destruction if your wrong that Prots disagree on. For example, Once Saved Always Saved. Another example is, believing in Baptismal Regeneration and Infant Baptism vs not. Another example are Protestant views on divorce, which are all over the place. Another is Protestant arguments on the Sabbath. And there’s many more.
So, you see why having an Infallible Interpreter of an Infallible Book is important. This isn’t even necessarily to get everything down to the letter, it is merely just to have a correct Teaching Authority, which is important for if your God and want your Message to be kept safe throughout the centuries. And also, Catholics are still allowed to have personal interpretations, Catholic doctrine is even still developing, it’s just the Church makes clear certain things and places lines at certain times, etc.
Bro I'm Catholic and if you are Protestant or Orthodox, we gotta unite ourselves as Christians against the real enemy (liberalism and that religion from you know where).
Judaism or Islam or Mormonism or JW or Hinduism or Buhdism or All?
@@arterialglobe9278He's talking about Islam
@@arterialglobe9278Islam
Why unite with a heretic? I’m Protestant so I agree cause both of us are Christian, why do you agree? I ask cause I don’t understand Catholicism.
@@juansolo3227 You mean Orthodoxy or what? I'm confused
The rejection of tradition is something that I talked about at my church. It's one of the reasons I'm considering Orthodoxy.
Even though its not Catholicism obviously im a Catholic
Welcome home to the Holy Apostolic Church
One day we may reunite
as i am striving towards The One Truth, i really dont agree with this video, and ive watched fr like every redeemed video, i love redeemed, but he makes no sense in this video..☦️💙
Same! There was a worship song I was listening to that keeps talking about I don’t need tradition just Jesus. I get it but we do need to value tradition
You should be Catholic
Just so you know, Orthodoxy formally believes that non-orthodox are not even christians. So I guess if you think that then you're on the right track.
Raised baptist in the aouth and am a Catholic catachumem. I pray for unity. I also enjoy your content.
Lets go bro. I was Evangelical from Australia getting baptised Catholic next week
I became a catholic initially out of spite towards Protestantism. I had some personal issues in my family in which people like my grandparents would claim and portray themselves as faithful Presbyterians and would often times brag about how faithful they are. However, none of their actions ever reflected their faith and rather just demonstrated how prideful and arrogant they were. I despised their hypocrisy and whenever I saw other protestants straw-manning catholicism I grew more and more distant from protestantism. I decided to convert to catholicism because I was disgusted by the sheer hypocrisy of the protestants around me. However, after having studied church history and theology more and growing as a person I am no longer a catholic out of spite towards protestants, but instead I am a catholic because I respect the traditions and theology of the church.
I am Catholic also, God bless my brother 🙌🏽
As a Protestant, I respect your choice of faith and doctrine. We may disagree on much of theology, but we are still brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm very glad you didn't leave the faith altogether. I hope you realize that you will find these types in not just any denomination of church, but any group of people period. It sounds as these are the hypocrites found in Matthew chapter 6. God bless brother, I hope you have since found peace and forgiveness for these people. I think many of us can relate to having hypocritical or narcissistic family that manipulate their Christianity. I know I can.
This is a "general religion situation", not a uniquely Protestant one. Just as many people raised Catholic have bitter testimonies to the effect of "my parents were religious but also hypocritical". Such human failings know no borders of geography or creed.
@@eugenesteinbeck9469I've also noticed that
I am an atheist but it has kind of become a habit to watch your videos and now I’m excited every time they pop up on my feed
I’m an agnostic so same here!
Wow respect to you guys, awsome!
So… why are you an atheist?
I recommend to watch the video of how atheist David Wood became a Christian.
All the best!
Convert to Christianity.
Consult your local Priest for instructions.
I promise you won't regret it.
You're a curious atheist, respect. Usually they're not so open minded. I've also been atheist my whole life until recently. I just wish you the best, may God bless you in Jesus Name❤
My experience of conversion to Christianity was from JW (18 years) to Karaite Judaism (5 years) and after 8 month later I converted to Orthodox Catholic (Eastern Orthodox) ☦️ under The Patriarch of Antioch
May I ask why Karaite Judaism?
@@kuafer3687 to put it simple, Karaite Jews follow the Rabbinic Laws and reject the Talmud
@@a2zz-gk197thats beautiful! So have you learned to pray in Aramaic 😁😁
Hope you become Eastern Catholic, but the ortodox is fine they also have all 7 sacraments. Also, if you do not understand trully the papacy, there is no reason to become Catholic
@@Baraodojaguary We are Catholic but not Roman, the oficial name is Orthodox Catholic Church
Fellow Catholic here I do enjoy your content 👍🇻🇦✝️🇻🇦🙏⛪️☦️ pray for Christian unity
I have a theory that the Halo theme song began a domino effect once people realized that song wasn't the creator of cool chants
😂
The whole "intellectual Christianity" thing you touch on is so interesting. The U.S. has had only two Catholic presidents ever, and many Protestants, but for 25+ years, the U.S. Supreme Court has been majority Catholic. And those Justices have achieved many Christian objectives.
As a Catholic Joe Biden is not Catholic
I can't speak for Orthodoxy, but the Catholic Church has twenty-three eastern particular churches. These particular churches use eastern rites such as the Byzantine and Coptic rites, and they hold on to many eastern traditions. We Catholics absolutely can respect things about the eastern traditions of Christianity even though we don't consider the Orthodox Church to be the one, true Church.
Edit: We also have three Anglican ordinariates, so we can even respect certain Protestant traditions.
It's weird because the Eastern Catholic even have different doctrine.How can that be one church if you have two different belief.
@@leiyeuktsui8449 AFAIK, any Eastern Church in communion with Rome holds to all the doctrine, as that's required to be in communion. Any theological differences would be in areas where unity isn't required, so things that the Church hasn't doctrinally declared as true.
@@leiyeuktsui8449we don't
@@leiyeuktsui8449 They don't have different doctrine. They simply express doctrine differently.
@@leiyeuktsui8449the sacraments of the orthodox church are valid according to the catholic church. As a catholic you are even allowed to go to orthodox churches if there's no catholic churches available on your area. These 2 churches are like 99% equal even though some orthodox like to deny it (love you orthodox brothers hihi I still belive we'll reunite one day)
I just look forward to when we can all partake in communion together, with all my protestant, catholic, and orthodox brothers and sisters
What a glorious day that will be, when we can all share at the Lord’s table
Cringe
I look forward to when Roman Catholics and Protestants return to the orthodoxy of the faith.
@@Hope_BoatI wish for orthodoxy to come back to the true Catholic church
@@gru2671 Which is the true Catholic Church? The one ωhσ tσrtυred and bυrned the"heretics" aIiνe of the one cocelebrating with them and kissing the Quran?
During the Renaissance and Baroque, Catholic churches were filled with various decorations and paintings, and at that time, hymnals were placed on church benches to attract people.
I’m Catholic and appreciate Eastern Orthodoxy, I learn a lot of theology from my Orthodox brothers and sisters in Christ. Pope John Paul II said the two constitute the two lungs of the Church. Both have valid apostolic succession, priesthood and sacraments. They were one church until the Great Schism after all. Check out Trent Horn and Craig Trulia’s video on they aren’t Protestants 😊 I enjoy your channel tho!
Hopefully one day the two lungs of the Church will be reunited. 😊
If all that is true about Orthodoxy, then why is there a need for the Pope?
I'm really not sure, but didn't Saint John Paul II mean the Eastern Catholic Churches rather than the Eastern Orthodox Churches? Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
@@triggered8556 Because Jesus appointed Saint Peter as the leader of the Church, and he set up his Throne in Rome. Even after Peter's death, the early Church gave more deference to his successors in Rome than the still living Apostle, Saint John the Evangelist.
The Orthodox Church has valid apostolic succession, and they are mostly in line with the teachings of Rome, but they are still in Schism. They need to accept the primacy of Rome.
@@latindwarf8173 I’ll have to look back. In any case, the only major issue dividing Catholics and Orthodox is the papacy (in my opinion)
What gets me as a Catholic is the inconsistency among Protestantism- there is too much diversity on essentials. In Catholicism, I can go anywhere in the world with a Catechism and I have something which is a watermark for orthodoxy.
What you consider to be diversity on essentials? Normally, there is much more agreement than disagreement, especially on the most essential questions of faith. Disagreements are usually concentrated on the most controversial points of soteriology (theology of salvation), sacramentology and eschatology (theology of the end times). Otherwise, most of the differences are in details. The most important thing is that we all believe in the 5 solas of the Reformation and I consider these principles to be much more important to Christianity than the three points of divergence I mentioned.
@@pedroguimaraes6094 A big piece that comes to mind is morals- contraception, marriage, beginning and end of life issues. Sacramental theology of Holy Orders and Eucharist. The authority question is a big one for me- who gives the final say when there is an issue of interpretation of Scripture or Tradition?
@@BrunelOnBoard Under the concept of Sola Scriptura, the final authority is always the Bible, but as Redeemed Zoomer mentioned in the video, Protestant churches recognize other lesser types of authority. We have confessions of faith, catechisms and determinations/councils of the Church that deal with these issues and and all members agreed to submit to them. The idea that Protestant churches have no determinations beyond what is explicitly addressed in one line of the Bible is not true, because the church also has its ministerial authority and applies what the Bible says to the issues and challenges we face today. The difference is that when the Church discusses these topics, it does so using the Bible as its highest authority and if the need to review its determinations is identified, it does so: "Ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda,' that is, 'the church reformed, always reforming,' according to the Word of God and the call of the Spirit.” For what is not defined, it is up to each Christian, individually, to read the Word of God and if there is not something explicitly or indirectly condemning or affirming something about that issue, it is up to each person's conscience. Maybe it's not like this in the non-denominational church in your neighborhood, but this is how the subject is handled in historic Protestant churches such as Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. And if you are in one of the faithful denominations or live in a country that is not affected by theological liberalism (Africa, Asia, Brazil, etc.) things work quite orderly.
@@BrunelOnBoardfun fact, followers of Menno Simons (protestant ofc) have a Chatechism. It's basically a shortened, simplified version of the bible in the form of questions and answers. The answers are straight outta the bible. *Edit* And also it has confessions of faith.
@@BrunelOnBoardRome has that authority, in theory. But why haven’t they really used it? Why haven’t they just dogmatically defined the entire Bible by now? There’s still tons of division within the Catholic and orthodox churches. Why haven’t they dogmatically defined any words of Christ that aren’t found in the Bible, since they always claim there’s more Christ had to teach us that’s not written down, etc. Rome makes all these claims but never acts on them. They can’t even give me a dogmatically defined line of apostolic succession (which isn’t biblical btw).
You nailed it. I'm in college right now and every day I'm surrounded with protests, anger, mental illness and hopelessness. The sign of peace offered by Catholicism shows that there is a silver lining: when Jesus spilled His blood and saved us all.
I did think this was very interesting I was a Muslim for 5+ years and I kept having dreams about Jesus and the last day eventually I started praying the our father prayer and learning about orthodox Christianity and it’s influences in Islam. So I accepted Jesus again and am waiting to be baptized in the local Catholic Church and ultimately become orthodox
welcome home brother
Welcome brother
As a Catholic I did a small road trip to Savanah Georgia two years ago. Presbyterian churches go very hard at times. The old school hymns are also nice.
While I'm glad to be Orthodox, the Protestant hymnal tradition is something I genuinely miss.
@@thekatarnalchemistLook into Appalachian Orthodox chants, which are sung in Sacred Harp. As a prot, those chants legit brought me to tears.
I was confirmed into the Catholic church this year. It was crazy, I was a protestant all my life, calvinist when i got serious about the fatith 10 years ago. I had a dream that led me to the church, I was at a real low point and prayed to God to show me the right path. That night I drempt of the catholic church and a smiling priest.
I didn't know a single catholic, believed all the standard protestant beliefs about church history, typical anti catholic beliefs like they worshipped mary, disregarded scripture, comuned with the dead and invited demons to possses them, etc.... after that dream I felt more compelled to study the reformation than the catholic church. I thought maybe there's something in Luther's teachings I had missed.... I shrugged off the dream as just a dream but I found myself agreeing with the catholics over luther. Then I checked into what zwingli taught, the anabaptists, the original calvinists. I was shocked to learn the reformers held to the catholic canon, Marian doctrines, purgatory, and apostolic succession. I was shocked to learn that catholics don't believe half the nonsense people think they believe. Shocked to find they are extremely biblical. In fact, I've read the bible multiple times and until I became catholic I never could make sense of some passages. Like Romans 2:
He will repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life, 8 while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but injustice, there will be wrath and fury. 9
I could go on for another 6 verses and every single word totally refutes sola fide. I would literally ignore this whole chapter when I was a protestant. Now I don't have to.... there's not a single passage like this that Catholics have to ignore. It makes me feel so close to scripture. Consider a rewrite to romans 2, and how much you have to change to make sola fide work. ...
He will NOT repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, there will be wrath and fury, 8 while for those who believe with faith alone, he will give eternal life. Good deeds, and truth seeking will flow from those who believe.
Very Roman Catholic of you to establish truth based off of a dream.
@Nonz.M the funny thing is, if you knew me, you'd know that's the exact opposite of my character. I spent 10 years before that dream watching debates, reading Commentaries, listening to apologetics. I was a huge fan of Doug Wilson, James white, and MacArthur.
I was baptized methodist as an infant and fully believed in it until I was around 17 or 18 when my questions became so numerous and my pastors and family members had zero answers. I returned to the faith after 10 years of studying Buddhism, Taoism, and conspiracy theories. I've always been a big fan of history but I felt roman catholic history was unreliable.
I didn't trust the dream, it took me months before I fi ally realized God was answering a prayer with that dream. I didn't know any Catholics and I assumed the dream came from watching one too many exorcist movies that year. Instead of studying the catholic church, my first inclination was to study luther. I was in that calvinist vein and didn't really study Lutheran doctrine thinking it was too close to catholic to be true.
I promise, there was not a catholic in my life, my family, or online that I talked to. In fact I went to mass and sat to myself for 5 months before even speaking to one of them. I fully expected any week to find a problem with Catholic doctrine.... I assumed every mass for those first 6 months or so was gonna be my last one. It really is the true church that christ built. Remember, he came here to start a church, not write a book. It's horrifying that I didn't believe the true church was even real let alone so easy to find.
@@timboslice980 I can see why you chose Rome since you didn't study Lutheran doctrine much because it was too Catholic. You're right, Lutheranism is very Catholic. We are the true Catholic Church cleansed by the Gospel. Everything Lutherans believe is confessed by the early church fathers, whereas Rome cannot say the same.
I was Pentecostal/non-denominational and I spent almost 2 years looking into church history and reading the early church fathers to try to find which church believed Christianity the way the early church fathers did, those who received the faith from the apostles. I narrowed it down to Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Lutheranism. It didn't take long to see that Rome has invented new doctrines that are nowhere to be found in scripture nor the early church like Mary's assumption, indulgences, Communion of one kind, Treasury of merit, etc. Jude 1:3 says to "contend for the faith which was delivered once and for all to the saints". This makes it clear that the Christian faith was delivered once, it's not something that gets continually added to. Rome's claim of being the continuation of the early church falls apart when they have numerous doctrines not found in the early church. The early church fathers themselves saw scripture as their highest authority, the rule of faith, and did not see themselves as being able to add to the faith:
"Regarding the things I say, I should supply even the proofs, so I will not seem to rely on my own opinions, but rather, prove them with Scripture, so that the matter will remain certain and steadfast.” - St. John Chrysostom (Homily 8 On Repentance and the Church)
"Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words." - St. Gregory of Nyssa (On the Holy Trinity)
"We are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings." - St. Gregory of Nyssa (On the Soul and the Resurrection)
“What is the mark of a faithful soul? To be in these dispositions of full acceptance on the authority of the words of Scripture, not venturing to reject anything nor making additions. For, if ‘all that is not of faith is sin’ as the Apostle says, and ‘faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God,’ everything outside Holy Scripture, not being of faith, is sin.” - St. Basil the Great (The Morals).
“For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless you receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” - St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures)
"It is impossible either to say or fully to understand anything about God beyond what has been divinely proclaimed to us, whether told or revealed, by the sacred declarations of the Old and New Testaments." - St. John of Damascus (On the Orthodox Faith)
Indeed, Christ gave us a church "built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone" (Eph 2:20), which is why God was faithful to preserve the necessary writings of the apostles and prophets in the Holy Bible to guide the church. The early church fathers understood this well and Lutherans do too.
God bless, brother.
@Nonz.M Ah you see the claims of luther fall apart when you look at it with the same level of judgement. Sola fide was unheard of before luther, consubstansiation, his views on the Canon, his views on Mary are not held by any Lutherans today, or anyone before him. So luther can add doctrine but the church he broke from cannot?
This is also a gross misunderstanding of how doctrine develops in the church. We don't just make up new things.... the oral tradition that st Paul tells us to hold to is a big source of what you probably perceive to be added doctrine.
Most of the quotes that you came up with from the catholic fathers are still upheld by the church today. I find it kind of amusing when protestants quote early catholic fathers promoting the use and value of scripture as if that's some point towards sola scriptura. Catholics revere the bible just as much if not more than protestants in my opinion. Tell me brother how do you exegete Romans 2?
He will repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life, 8 while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but injustice, there will be wrath and fury. 9
The whole chapter has the same thrust but I think it's distilled pretty well in this passage. I haven't heard a protestant make any sense of this passage because it refutes the core doctrine of sola fide. Also I'm sure you're aware of how luther felt about the book of james.
@@timboslice980you absolutely do “make things up” the assumption of Mary, Immaculate conception, etc are dogmas that appeared in the 1800s and would have been foreign to the early church.
I was a Oneness Pentecostal and was having conversations with a Catholic girl about Christianity and where we differ on things. I started to study Catholicism purely to understand it better and have better discussions on it. And the more I understood it, the more I believed it. I'm starting RCIA now and leaving my old church behind. It's hard and painful, but it's worth it.
Similar experience, only I was Fundamental Baptist.
To study history.... is truly.... to cease being Protestant.
@@WilliamMcAdamssomething like that is happening to me😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢 I attend to a Baptist church
@LauDataMarketer Ahh, it's rough, for sure.
I love my Baptist Church, and the people in it. But... I need to go where God is present. I once felt God's presence in my Baptist Church, but I quit feeling it a few years ago. I just wasn't ready to admit it.
Long story short, I became appalled by how "America centric" my Baptist Church is, and started to think "the things taught here are really only applicable to modern day Americans... that means that this church can't be teaching historical Christianity... What does that look like?"
As I delved into historical Christianity, beginning with the Didache, and then the Church Fathers, I realized there is a timeless message... its just... not at the Baptist Church.
I explored Holy Orthodoxy and Catholicism for awhile, and I genuinely believe I felt God turn me away from Orthodoxy.
I loved the Divine Liturgy, the Church, and the people there. I loved Orthodox worship. But it was like God made my heart heavy, and the only thoughts I could have were "this isn't where I belong".
So, I went to the Catholic Church.
Im currently in RCIA, and praying for a nudge to join the Church. I dont need much; in a lot of ways, im already "intellectually" Catholic. But I want to feel the "calling" so to say to the Catholic Church. Even if its a faint whisper; I want to feel it.
It would/will be a big leap for me, because I was raised Fundamental Baptist, and my grandfather was a Baptist preacher. All of my friends are Baptist. And Baptists *hate* Catholics -- at least around my area.
But I'll gladly join the Catholic Church, if that's where God is.
If you haven't attended Mass before, I highly recommend it. Its honestly a sobering experience.
Forget almost everything you've heard about Catholics from Protestants, and go to Mass with an open heart. If your Baptist Church is anything like the ones around here, pretty much everything you think you know about Catholicism; you don't actually know.
So, don't let fearmongering keep you from the Mass. It's truly wonderful.
Video title: Why is everyone becoming Catholic/Orthodox?
Me: because we are awesome 😎
Tons of people still aren’t catholic or not religious you know that right?
@@dylanshorrorchannel1378yeah And what does that have to do with his comment?
I am Eastern Orthodox I was a convert and I really love this channel it's also very interesting to see a RUclipsr of this size engage with our denomination a lot, keep up the good work and God bless
I'm slowly turning towards eastern orthodoxy, shoutout to my favourite reformed/presbyterian youtuber ❤
Could I try to persuade you to Catholicism or just in general clear some ideas you may have of Catholicism?
We'd love you to be in the church
@@CashFreedman Well, I'm already baptised-chrismated in the EO church, but I'm thinking about finally doing confession for the first time and receiving the eucharist. Thank you
@@S0N7 Funny you say that, I've been talking and learning with catholics these last 2 months, and through you guys I discoverd my faith. I even attended both TLM and byzantine mass, very beautiful traditions. However, I decided I lean theologically more orthodox, but I'm very open-minded about Catholicism. It has nothing to do with the pope, filioque (I don't have much of a problem with it) or ecclesiology, but rather with the finer details about soteriology / purgatory + (distinction between mortal/venial). It's not that I don't overall agree with current catholic doctrine, I can actually find a lot of common ground, but I'm unconfortable with how some of these doctrines came about in the West.
@@jonaszswietomierz8017 Read the gospels and the Pauline Letters, especially John and Romans, and tell me if what you see there, theologically, is more in line with Eastern Orthodoxy, Catholicism, or Presbyterianism. After I did this, my certainty in Presbyterianism and Reformed Theology, in general, was greatly strengthened and continues to strengthen now that I am reading the Westminster Confession of Faith and going through every passage they cite.
The biggest thing with Protestantism is the removal of the deuterocanonical books. If scripture is infallible, why were those removed.
And this is ignoring that the Bible was canonized by the Catholic Church, which left out real historical sources on the formation and structure of the church in the New Testament, but were not written by the apostles or Paul. So accepting the Bible is accepting the Catholic authority.
There’s likely answers to this out there, and I need to do more research into the Protestant answers.
The Catholic church did not canonize scripture. At that point, the Catholic and Orthodox churches were one. There is no historical grounds for labeling the entire early church "The Catholic Church," unless you are intentionally trying to confuse people.
@@bad_covfefe the Nicene Creed uses the term “Catholic”, but the orthodox also use the deuterocanonical books. Point still stands that a central church canonized scripture. And this church definitely isn’t a Protestant one ignoring books of the scripture.
@Tang-qi6zw we are agreed regarding Protestantism. The Protestants want to have their Bible but reject the authority of the tradition and the church that gave it to them.
@@Tang-qi6zw Catholic means Universal, as in every christian in every place, not on the institution
Protestants do not have the Deuterocanon because our Old Testament is based on the Hebrew Tanakh, which was the Jewish Canon at the time of Jesus. Neither Jesus nor his apostles quoted from those books. In the Lutheran church we consider the Deuterocanon to be historical but not infallible.
God bless you zoomer. I do love your channel, not only do you give me hope in faith but also in the younger generation. Good work as always.
The true question is: How many will STAY Catholic/Orthodox?
I know I'm never going back to protestantism, that's for sure!
I'm not a Christian but I respect more the Protestant church and tradition
Very true 😂 it'll be funny to see how many of them will leave when they find out they're not as perfect as the internet makes them look
Well I definitely can't go back to being a Mormon.
@@JordanToJerichowelcome to the true faith brother ✝️🤝✝️
Damn even I'm sliding closer to Catholicism these days; 6 months ago I'd have said I'm an Anglican. Now I say I'm an Anglo-Catholic.
@@user-oi6hs7px4r I don't know, I'll let you know if that happens
Just wait till you pick up Newman. 😅
The Anglican Ordinariate is pretty cool😎
@@votemefordictator4910 Anglicanism is pretty great. Like the main reason that is stopping me from sliding fully do Pope Francis is the fact that I don't believe in transubstantiation. Anglicanism, especially the CofE, is super accepting without rejecting key theology, so it's pretty great
@@fabulouschild2005do you believe in the real presence?
I am thankful that God has granted me a christian faith in the Catholic Church, and I am thankful for honest and respectful protestants like you. Keep praying, studying, and speaking. Viva Cristo Rey.
Raised Protestant and am becoming Orthodox!! Excited to grow deeper into Christ!
I was where you are now and its the greatest choice I have ever made.
EO doesn't promote growing deeper in Christ as much as they promote growing deeper in Mary.
@@Nonz.M have you been to a Divine Liturgy?? Her name is mentioned a couple of times not even close to the intense veneration of Catholics. It’s important theologically that we recognize she is the Theotokos and the new ark of the covenant any thing less is Nestorian and denying Christ of his divinity
@@Nonz.M In addition to what Jonah already said, we Orthodox only ask for her intercession, like asking a friend to pray for you. We don't treat her the way the Catholics do, but we still believe she is holy and the highest of the saints. The entire liturgy is based around the body and blood of Christ so stop uttering nonsense.
@@jonahanderson9101 We likewise recognize her as the Theotokos and it is acceptable to call her the new arc of the covenant.
EO Marian hyperveneration (in many instances worship) may not exceed that of Rome, but it still crosses the line with prayers like "Most Holy Theotokos save us". Mary cannot save you. Only Christ can.
Love this channel, you really do a great job covering ecclesiastical topics in a way that truly informs without creating division.
I’m a Catholic. Yes, I believe that the Catholic Church is the one true church. However, the Orthodox Church are our Brothers. Their dogma is very similar Catholicism and they hold true to the apostolic tradition.
Protestantism on the other hand is all over the place. There is 100s of denominations, worshipping in concert halls and people saying that god was non-binary… Imagine the cultural pull of a United, Apostolic Catholic Church. We could save the world if prots came home to Rome.
Long live the one true church
i'm orthodox and i agree. his "one or the other" stance isn't really true... we came from the same church. sure, we got differences, but we'd prefer each other over protestantism.
God's word will always carry more weight than any man or tradition of men.
This is a somewhat disingenuous summary of Protestantism.
For one, there isn't nearly as many as 100s. There's like 12-ish, and considering they're all grouped under "Protestantism" implies that they agree on certain key important things that allows them to be grouped together in such a way in the first place.
Secondly, "worshiping in concert halls" is a stereotype that by no means can be broadly applied to Protestant tradition. Many Protestant churches worship in a traditional way in traditional churches.
Thirdly, the horrendous heresy you mentioned of God being called non-binary, among other heresies, are largely a product of the current downwards trend of several Western cultures. Not even the Catholic Church, when narrowed down to particular regions, have proven entirely immune to heterodoxy due to cultural pressures. And of course, these heresies are not necessarily representative of the entirety, or even the majority, of Protestantism.
Finally, to say that Protestants should just come home to Rome is conveniently ignoring the sheer doctrinal and historical significance of the issues that caused the schism between Catholics and Protestants in the first place.
(Sorry if this came off a bit heated, but I believe it'd be more productive to actually observe Protestant doctrines at their roots and make evaluations there, rather than building men of straw and pointing out the rotten fruits of those churches that no longer adhere to that doctrine in the first place).
The RCCs have been doing Social Justice since the 1960s, and have all sorts of people in their church including homosexuals and atheists and even communists.
Not gonna lie, Bible studies have really helped me engage with my relationship far more than my Catholic training. It helped me get closer to God and I’m thankful for my Protestant friends who got me into it but I’m still Catholic because of my community.
Sounds like you should start a Bible study with your Catholic community so they can learn more about the scriptures and the Faith. Bible studies don’t have to be Protestant
I converted to Orthodoxy, it is my understanding according to what I have been taught, and this may not be a universal teaching, but it is my teaching. Within Orthodoxy, as long as you believe in the trinity, you are Christian, however, if you are not part of the Orthodox Church, then you are not part of the church, you are a Christian without a church. You can still attain salvation without being part of the church, but it is not healthy, the church is the hospital of the LORD, given time and rest, you can be healed from disease, but you are much better off in a hospital. To an extent it is also, it is not our place to judge, only HE can judge, we cannot tell you where the church isn't, only we can guarantee you where it is, and that is the Orthodox Church. Additionally, we believe in Christ, being fully GOD, and fully human. I cannot speak for Roman Catholicism, but I know that according to my teaching within Orthodoxy, it is not taught, that works save you, there are no works that could be enough to make up for even one sin. However, teaching that by faith alone you are saved, while is correct according to Orthodoxy, it lacks the correct emphasis. Yes, technically, but how can you claim to love HIM, how can you claim to have faith in the LORD, if you do not do good works? How can you claim to love someone, then punch then in the face the next moment? We are not perfect, but if you claim to have faith in the LORD, and never give alms, never feed the hungry, and the poor, never help your neighbor. Your faith saves you, but your faith is shown in your works. For reference, I am a convert to Orthodoxy, a baptist upbringing, though was baptized Roman Catholic after birth, I tried buddhism for a little less than a year, I was Norse pagan, I think a little over 2 years. When I came back to GOD, I had started as nondenominational, for about a year, then my situation made it difficult to go to church, as I travel a lot. When my situation became more consistent, I wanted to go back to church, I had been doing research, and been made aware of more traditional forms of Christianity, I appreciated this style, as I had grown tired of the concerts that had become so common in secularized Christianity. I wanted more traditional, in the style of worship and of the church buildings, and I had decided it would either be Lutheranism, or Orthodoxy, and the idea of Apostolic sucession appealed to me, the argument made by Orthodoxy, by apostolic sucession, made sense to me, and still does.(yes I know Roman Catholicism has this too, but the idea of the infallibility of the Pope is a non starter for me, also it is just not traditional enough for me) So anyways for this, is the reason I had chosen Orthodoxy, I see it as the true Church.
Hello there! I am Roman Catholic and happened across your comment. We Catholics believe in about everything the Orthodox church does (considering faith vs works), but the concept of papal infallibility has always made me uneasy, so I've been thinking of converting to Orthodoxy.
Dr. Jordan Cooper was one of the major reasons I didn’t become Roman Catholic (or Eastern Orthodox). I had considered Roman Catholicism for four or five years, and was even still open to it and Eastern Orthodoxy during my three year sojourn through Presbyterian churches. I was finally convinced to become a Lutheran, or Evangelical Catholic, instead.
I am going through this right now. A few months ago I felt like I couldn’t avoid becoming Catholic and then I started approaching Lutheranism through Jordan Cooper and I find myself moving in that direction. God Bless you and have a great day.
@@dazaiosamuda3634 that’s great to hear! God bless you as well!
@@dazaiosamuda3634i suggest watching Fulton Sheen
Saint James said that salvation came not through faith alone, but also through good works. This is in line with Jesus saying that some who call him Lord, he will not recognize on Judgment Day. Luther wanted to toss the Epistle of James into the fire, and did decanonize several Books. Sola Scriptura is a lie.
@@Rivian_Jedi Very easy argument to overturn, as many Protestants have already done. When you read James in his context you see that he is talking about evidence of true Faith, differentiating it from what he considers to be a dead faith (a faith that is only apparent). He says that true faith bears fruit and that good works are evidence of true faith, in the end, we are linked to Christ by faith, and whoever is linked to Christ bears good fruit. The difference is that for Protestants we are not justified before God by works, but we must examine our own fruits and those of others to make sure we are in fact connected to Christ. The funny thing is that you use this one passage to talk about justification by works, but ignore all the other several passages that clearly talk about justification by faith alone.
To the credit of prots that convert, (just an observation) it seems that the prots that convert to Catholicism/orthodoxy already had a knowledgeable prior background, whereas on the other hand you see nominal/weaker Catholics get get drawn to Protestantism (at least initially to the more charismatic forms of worship etc)
Yep, “Protestants get the worst Catholics, Catholics get the best Protestants” - can’t remember where that came from
Yep. Protestantism is having severe brain drain.
@@PaxChristi7Yeah my Orthodox Church is 100% converts from Protestantism and Catholicism.
Former Presbyterian, Catholic convert. I’m a subscriber because I would have been a part of this Protestant community of believers seeking tradition through the Church Fathers etc. but was largely ignorant of it in the most popular Protestant circles throughout my life. As I discovered Catholic theology almost three years ago, it clicked for me and answered questions I’ve had my whole life that I hadn’t yet found in Protestant circles though I’m glad to see that they do exist and I’ve made a few Anglican, Lutheran, and Methodist friends who think in a very catholic way. Ultimately it was the sacraments, authority, apostolic succession, papacy, and tradition that informed my decision. I really enjoyed Scott Hahn who was also Presbyterian as well. Hopefully this work with Reconquista and your channel can continue to draw the Body of Christ together in an ecumenical spirit of unity. God bless!
As a Catholic, thanks for this. I'm glad you're working on reviving tradition in Protestantism. I think Protestantism did bring some good into the world, but I still think the Reformation was tragic.
Thanks so much for making the map of all the churches! That seems like A LOT of effort. I was excited to see my church was on the list (and sadly the only one in my area)
I raised attending an episcopal church and then later a nondenominational church. Over the years my family slowly stopped going and my knowledge of the religion isn't that great. While in college I was invited to a catholic service and bible study/men's group by a friend and it was an incredible experience. You had the beautiful building, everyone was dressed well, the building was packed and full of life. In the men's group we talked about real connections between the faith and our lives, about duties, responsibilities, and consequences. It felt a lot more "real" than what I associated with my time in protestant church which I felt like just talked about "peace and love". I'm aware I'm speaking with broad generalizations. Protestants do have beautiful buildings, it's just in suburbia you don't see it as often. Also protestant teachings can be proper it's just sometimes they are not for reasons mentioned in your video.
Your channel has helped me get closer to Catholicism. Love all Christians!
Thank you so much for your work brother. Theres alot we can all learn ❤
Once I took the Eucharist at my confirmation, I knew I could never go back and that this is what I have been missing, all of my life. Christ is King. ❤
Thank you for pointing out the similarities between early rabbinic/oral Torah, and the claims of apostolic authority from Roman and Orthodox traditions
Rabbinic Judaism didn't start until the 7th century.
@@triggered8556bro Jesus literally talked about the wrong jewish traditions
@@Soviet.ChristianWhat? You understand that Rabbinic Judaism was a movement that started in the 600s right? The Pharisaic and second Temple Judaism that Jesus lived through is completely different than the modern Jews.
@@triggered8556 nobody talks about this or talmudic jews. Wrong oral traditions among the jews didn’t start in 600s
@@Soviet.Christian I never said that oral tradition started in the 600s, I said rabbinic judaism started in the 600s. What part of that do you not get?
I like this new movement… I reverted to Catholicism because of Sola Scriptura, tradition, and church authority, and I think many others do for the same reasons
I want to argue with you so I can gaslight myself into believing I'm right about everything.
@@N8R_Quizzie lol hit me with your best argument!!
Thank you for mentioning Dr Jordan B Cooper, I have long been wanting a Lutheran theologian to listen to. I've listened to him all week after you mentioned him and he has great content
The Church has always had a history of lay theologians. Tertullian is probably the most famous one from the early church. The reason why there aren’t a ton of lay theologians is not because the church was preventing it from happening but it was due to the practicality. Bibles were expensive, education was expensive, and very few people had the resources to sit around and think about theology unless they were specifically employed by the church to do so.
It’s not that Protestantism enabled lay people to be theologians, it was more due to the invention of the printing press significantly reducing the cost of a Bible and the advent of public education enabling far more people to be able to read. There was a lot more access to theological study because of technological advancement not so much because of the Protestant approach in particular.
Didn't the catholic church hunt, torture and murder people who were printing the bible in german and english?
Early theology wasn't based on the Bible. The Bible was based on early theology.
1:55 Um. Yes you can? Eastern Catholics:
Literally
Just wanted to commentate on this real quick.
I don't think it's entirely true that Orthodox and Catholics can't fully appreciate the traditions of each other, or of Protestant traditions. If said traditions go against the beliefs of the faith, then yes the churchgoers should reject it, but as an Orthodox Christian myself, I can still accept the beauty in the Catholic and Protestant traditions.
Also, you don't need to go to an expensive seminary in order to be versed in theology. And being good at debates, in the grand scheme of things, really isn't that important. What really matters is bringing people to Christ. Arguing with people online is not gonna save anyone.
I also think there is this idea that protestantism is "american" christianity, is seen as not rooted in tradition or historic truths. That may be true for some protestants, but there are protestants rooted in tradition and pursue historic truths. I really like bryan wolfmuellers book " has American christianity failed" which talks alot about how individualism has affected christianity in America and how we need to get back to focusing on christ rather than ourselves from a lutheran perspective. I think you will like it zoomer if you haven't read it.
Love what you're doing with the Reconquista! Once you're done and ready, we're ready to welcome you to the Ancient Churches.
Perfect timing Im in the process of converting from Presbyterianism to Catholicism 😂
Welcome home 😄
Welcome home! What brought you to Catholicism?
Welcome home ❤
you're going backwards 😳
the daughters go back to the Harlot mother, it's their DNA@@tomtemple69
I strongly disagree with saying catholics/orthodox cannot appriciate the other because They both think they are the one true church.
I am catholic and I can apriciate beautiful things about orthodoxy (Of which there are many) even though its not the one true church.
Great video as always tho
I agree : there is only one saint apostolic and catholic Church : The orthodox. The fillioquists are not the one true church as even the Vatican acknowledged in the the 1995 clarification that affirmed the “conciliar, ecumenical, normative and irrevocable value” of the creed without the filioque. Making the filioque no more than a mere local tradition.
Now the filioque is often omitted during the papal liturgy where it was first sung in 1014.
Filoquism was a tool forged by Charlemagne in order to split Rome from the rest of the orthodox Church. From saint pope Leo III to the assassination of saint pope John VIII the popes of Rome rejected the alteration of the holy creed because and the orthodox faith. Modern popes are slowly restoring the universal creed.
yeah the pope says that the orthodox have the sacraments and apostolic succession.
@@deacon6221 But do Roman Catholics have valid sacraments?
I was raised evangelical and grew up in a very modern looking church with a stage and stereo lights. I discovered Eastern Orthodoxy through social media over the summer this year and I've been looking into it ever since. I deeply admire the tradition, aesthetics, and music. I also started looking into Catholicism. After many years of being an evangelical who was very anti-Catholic, I started to see the true beauty of Catholicism. I haven't found out which denomination to convert to yet, as I still need to study church history and the early church fathers. I may become Orthodox, or Catholic, or maybe even a trad Protestant. The only problem with becoming a trad protestant is that the only traditional protestant church in my area that has not been hijacked by liberalism is a Norwegian speaking Lutheran memorial church. Please pray for me that I discover the correct church.
Update 12/30/23: I just read about Our Lady of Lourdes and the many miracles that took place there. I'm currently leaning towards Catholicism.
You can try to find a byzantine rite catholic church.
I recommend you take RCIA classes at your local Catholic Church. They will teach you everything you need to know about Catholicism. Most importantly good luck on your journey and God Bless!
I don't understand why you would pick trad protestantism over the other two. The only reason to become Protestant is to reject tradition, the real priesthood, and to embrace sola scriptura. NONE of these positions is found in the early church.
@@bad_covfefe @bad_covfefe Most likely I won't become protestant. They removed a lot of the sacraments as well as 7 books of the Bible which have already been established as canonical at the Council of Nicaea. Also, a lot of their doctrines such as the solas were not present in the early church. Really the only reason why protestantism exists is a response to the Catholic Church using indulgences. Considering the Catholics stopped the practice of indulgences centuries ago, there really is no reason to be protestant in the 21st century. I would rather join the church that Christ himself founded over a church that a German guy founded as a counterreaction to indulgences.
Don't do half the journey. Embrace the orthodox faith. The unchanged Church of old.
I think maybe another surface level reason people gravitate to Catholicism and Orthodoxy is the aesthetic. Not that I agree with it but some people associate it with trendy things among men like the Roman Empire or Crusaders. As some people find tradition and seek religion they may feel that they are fighting back against degeneracy. This kind of connects to that interest of the fighting spirit of the Roman empire or Crusaders. I know it sounds dumb but it could be a subconscious factor. For a lot of people orthodoxy and Catholicism are different and thus intriguing , Protestantism may be more familiar and people just think "oh yeah, that Baptist church down the road". For some new converts they may not be weighing the theological strengths of each branch of Christianity, it may be more about certain branches make them feel.
As a recent convert to Catholicism, I agree on a surface level that the Catholic and Orthodox traditions stand up against degeneracy and secularism a lot better, however there definitely is way more important theological reasons as well, at least for me.
@@manicchristianundeniably? I mean you have to have some sort of proof that back that up lol. Every young convert I’ve engaged with converted bc of theological reasons
I’m touring college campuses and most Protestant churches have pride flags outside and no one inside, while the Catholic student centers/churches have no pride flags and lots of people inside 🇻🇦
The historic Protestant churches have been hijacked sadly. That’s why Zoomer made a huge map of the conservative historic Protestant churches in America!
Bro is too catholic to protestants and too protestant for catholics, he is true chad i pray more protestant would be like This ❤
Im a new christian myself (23 yers old). Discovered my faith about 6 months and ago and really struggled with understanding the churches, also found the idea of them a bit intimidating. Thanks to your videos however, especially the ones that explain the differnces between them in an easy to understand way, it inspired me to look further into it and find the one that fit my views the best. Ive been going to my local Catholic church for a few weeks now and its been an amazing experience. (Im from the UK if that adds any context)
1:50 that is a ridiculous conclusion, I can't even interpret it charitably
Fr
If Protestant churches only look bad because of theological liberals that have taken over, that begs the question: Why have Protestant churches been taken over and not Catholic/Orthodox churches? I think that is the main issue and perhaps the fruit of something deeper in the structure/beliefs.
Tldr: Why did Protestant churches get liberalized while Catholic/Orthodox didn't?
This 100%
Why are cathodox churches more ressistant to liberalism?
Couldn't possibly have anything to do with apostolic succesion or the holy spirit guiding the church now could it?
The Catholic/Orthodox have liberals in them. Check out the Maryknolls and Orbis Books. And the Orthodox are in the Liberal National Council of Churches.
@@ThorsteinnMemeson or it could simply be that the Catholic and Orthodox churches are far more legalistic and structured in hierarchy and dogma than Protestant churches. Also the language you are using makes it sound like every Protestant church has been liberalized. Obviously this is not the case.
Are you unaware of the openly gay priests? Or that the CC says Muslims and Catholics pray to the same God?
@@j96569 And that the EO is part of the World Council of Churches, a very Left-wing/liberal organization?
I’m only 23 but after so much witchcraft I wouldn’t have considered being a Christian if I didn’t find Orthodoxy. I’m trying to get as close in tradition to Christ as possible. I want true and unchanged.
I’ve had several friends convert (I’m Gen X). In some cases it was a craving for liturgy and tradition. In others it was a reaction to shallow mega-churches and political big-Eva. In the latter I honestly observed someone who despite being a Christ follower for many years, their doctrinal understanding was pretty shallow, and the appeal of being a part of something so historical was enough to overcome the doctrinal problems.
Same I’m really just craving stillness, liturgy and not feeling like a consumer. Not converting but going to pray in a Catholic Church
Thank you for this video Zoomer! I've been greatly confused for months now and realised God is not the author of confusion! This video made me realise I am on the right track and my salvation is not at stake! I love my catholic and orthodox brothers and sisters also but for the moment I'm gonna keep walking with God as a protestant! God bless
I’m Protestant, but I accept the Catholic canon.
Kinda strange but very based, I wish more Protestants were like you
@@alfonsohuaman6116 I am Presbyterian, and our motto is “Reformed and always reforming,” so I must submit to Holy Scripture.
Same. I am not a Catholic but I consider the Deuterocanonical books such as Tobit, Wisdom Maccabees etc. to be the infallible and divinely inspired Word of God.
@@gnhman1878 thoughts on Marty’s perpetual virginity?
@@zacharyglasgow5351 It might be true, it might be not. But to be honest, I do not really care if Mary is a perpetual virgin or not because it does not affect my salvation or my relationship with God. Also, regarding the Deuterocanonical books, can I tell you why I believe that the Deuterocanonical books are divinely inspired? There are three main reasons as to why I believe that the Deuterocanonical books are divinely inspired and should be included in Scripture:
1. The Deuterocanonical books prophesied about Jesus. If the Deuterocanonical books are not divinely inspired, how did they prophesy about Jesus? I will give two examples of Messianic prophecies in the Deuterocanonical books. The first example can be found in Wisdom 2:12-20. Wisdom 2:12-20 says that a righteous man (who represents Jesus) will oppose the deeds of the wicked, will accuse the wicked of failures in what they have been taught, will reproach the wicked for their sins against the Law, will claim to have knowledge of God, will refer to Himself as a child of God, and will boasts that God is His Father, and in verse 20, it says that the wicked will condemn this righteous man to death. Jesus fits all of these descriptions. The second example can be found in the entire Book of Tobit. The entire Book of Tobit is literally a foreshadowing or prophecy about Jesus. In the Book of Tobit, Tobit sent his son Tobias to go to his relative named Sarah and deliver her from a demon and marry her. In the gospels, God the Father sent Jesus Christ to go to the world and deliver the Church from sin and marry her. In the Book of Tobit, Tobias sacrificed a fish to save Sarah from a demon and heal his father's physical blindness. In the gospels, Jesus sacrificed Himself to save the Church from sin and heal her spiritual blindness.
2. The Septuagint contains the Deuterocanonical books. The Septuagint was the Bible translation that the New Testament authors such as Matthew, Mark and Paul used. Whenever Matthew, Mark or Paul quoted a passage from the OT, they always quoted it from the Septuagint translation. Therefore, it seems like the NT authors had no problem and had no issues with the Deuterocanonical books since they literally used a translation that contains the Deuterocanonical books. Moreover, the Septuagint was also the Bible that the early church and early Christian theologians such as Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Polycarp, Ignatius etc. used.
3. Pretty much no one before the Protestant Reformation doubted or challenged the canonicity of the Deuterocanon. The Deuterocanon was present in everyone's Bibles even before the Protestant Reformation and even before the Council of Trent. So the idea that the Catholic Church "Added books into The Bible to counter the Reformation" is false. The Catholic Church never added any books into The Bible. It was Martin Luther who removed books from The Bible. This is just a historical fact.
After I have presented the three reasons as to why I accept the Deuterocanonical books as Scripture, I will now refute and debunk some common Protestant objections against the canonicity of the Deuterocanonical books, Thomas Aquinas style:
Objection 1: The Book of Tobit promotes witchcraft because the angel told Tobit to create a potion out of fish organs!
Objection 2: The Jews did not accept the Deuterocanonical books as Scripture. Therefore, we should also not accept the Deuterocanonical books as Scripture.
Objection 3: The NT never quoted from the Deuterocanon.
Reply to objection 1: First, creating medicine out of the organs of animals was very common in the ancient times. Therefore, it is not witchcraft. Second, who are you to tell God how to and how to not do miracles? Throughout Scripture, we see God doing miracles in some pretty bizarre and strange ways. For example, in the Book of Kings, the prophet Elisha performed miracles using salt (He placed salt in a bowl of poisonous stew to get rid of the poison and he placed salt in poisonous water to get rid of the poison). Does it mean that the Book of Kings promotes witchcraft? By no means! In 1 Kings 22, we also see a story of God telling a deceiving spirit to deceive King Ahab so that he would go to Ramoth Gilead and die. Does it mean that 1 Kings 22 promotes witchcraft? By no means! Saying that the Book of Tobit promotes witchcraft just because there was a part where the main character made medicine out of fish organs is like saying that Your Name promotes transgenderism just because it's a movie about a boy and a girl body-swapping...
Reply to objection 2: First, not all of the Jews rejected the Deuterocanonical books as Scripture. My Bible teacher said that some of the Diasporic Jews or the Jews who lived outside of Jerusalem had no problem with the Deuterocanonical books. Second, the Jews also rejected the New Testament as Scripture. So we should also reject the New Testament as Scripture?
Reply to objection 3: First, there are also many books in the OT that the NT never directly quotes from. The NT never directly quotes from Joshua or Judges, but all Christians accept those books as Scripture. Second, while it is true that the NT never directly quotes from the Deuterocanon, the NT does contain allusions to the Deuterocanon. Sirach 24:21 says "Those who eat of me will hunger for more, and those who drink of me will thirst for more", and in John 6:35, Jesus said "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty".
Whilst I don’t think it’ll be a major factor, I wonder if the war between Ukraine and Russia has put Eastern Orthodoxy in the public consciousness and therefore increased interest in it. I knew next to nothing until I heard about how the Ukrainian Orthodox Church said they would break away from the Russian Church. Since then I’ve read a couple of books about Orthodoxy and seen several videos.
I was raised a Oneness Pentecostal and I started RCIA a few months ago
❤
I just want to say I was Catholic before it was the based and reactionist thing to do
You are not saved by faith alone. Neither are you saved by good works alone. Protestantism fails because it believes you only need faith in Christ to be saved; but in reality you need to have both faith and do good works because both should already be occurring at the same time. If you find you aren’t doing good works, you aren’t following what the Bible tells us to do, and thus you are sinning, your faith is faulty and incomplete. At least make the effort to unite both together; if you sin like crazy but then tell someone “Jesus is my Lord”, I’ve seriously got to question the basis of your faith and what you want out of it.
w james 2 litteraly talks about this and luther wanted to remove it from his cannon
I am very attracted to high church traditions even though I’ve grown up in low church non-denominational and Pentecostal charismatic churches. I am still technically non-denominational, but I think high church Protestantism’s tradition and theology matches with my personal faith, and I plan on converting one day.
You will have beauty and tradition with biblical faithfulness, the latter should be the most important for a Christian.
edit: i'm talking about high church protestant traditions like Lutheranism and Anglicanism.
I'm in the same boat as you bro. Once I feel like I'm well-versed in scripture and I move out I'm converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.
I started attending Orthodox liturgies this year, but it had nothing to do with the trad movement. I just converted to Christianity and didn't agree with sola scriptura or the idea of a pope, so that left me with Orthodoxy. Best decision I ever made.
The Pope is biblical though. Isaiah 22:22, when God gives the keys to a man who holds authority. Then again, in the NT, Jesus establishes Peter as the rock, and in the early church, Peter had special authority and power that the other bishops didnt have. And the idea of a single person being head over others is very much in line with Christian Theology and salvation history. The office of the pope is both Biblical and traditional, traditional in Church history, and traditional in Salvation history. I would def look into the arguments for each of the churches, just so you have the best chance of finding Truth!
You think that not having a Pope is a good thing, But when you actually study Orthodoxy you find that the Ecumenical Concils that they belive affirms the papacy. Besides, not having a Pope means lack of a universal magisterium, which means that Orthodoxy probably never will agree in all theological, moral and social questions, so the unity of them is not perfect. The saints aren't all the same, for example. The patriarchy of Moscovo doesn't recognizes the autocephaly of the Ucranian Orthodoxy Church. Orthodoxy couldn't even do an Ecumenical Concil (read about the failure of Creta's Concil, in 2016). You don't agree with the Pope, but the reality is that in Orthodoxy you have many Popes. Each Patriarch is a Pope. See Michael Lofton videos. He reliesed a new book called Answering Orthodoxy, which confronts all of the incoherences of Orthodoxy. But they are our brothers... They just don't have the fullness of the faith.
@@RingoFirearms "Then again, in the NT, Jesus establishes Peter as the rock"
The application of this is what is questioned, and the early church did not have consensus that it meant "the Bishop of Rome has authority over every other bishop."
"Peter had special authority and power that the other bishops didnt have"
You mean like when Paul corrected him and Peter submitted to Paul?
"And the idea of a single person being head over others is very much in line with Christian Theology and salvation history"
Catholic theology entirely boils down to "it makes sense to me, therefore it is true." This is why Catholicism directly led to Protestantism, and Protestantism directly led to progressivism. Something can make sense and still be wrong; something can not make sense and still be true. "Making sense," then, is not an indicator of truth. Paul did not say to use reason to invent new traditions. He said to follow the traditions passed down.
"The office of the pope is both Biblical and traditional"
The Catholic *application* of the office of the Pope is neither Biblical nor traditional.
@@RingoFirearmstill the pope starts telling people that pachimama is Mary and that these pagan deities are apparitions of our Theotokos. Not to mention the Borgias pope having sex slaves. The historical role of the pope being firsy among equals and the contrary doctrine that goes against itself. For example the church says that Gregory Palamas is a saint. But then in the Middle Ages said that Palamas was in hell as a heretic. Both people were popes who said it.
A) Bad popes don't disprove the papacy, just like bad bishops don't disprove that Jesus gave us bishops. (im assuming you're orthodox).
B) Popes can disagree. Popes cant say a man is in hell because thats not authority that the church has, and also, papal infallibility is not in everything they say.
C) The idea of there being a head bishop who is leader over them all is very biblical. Peter is established as the Rock on which the Church was founded (yes, it was also his faith, but Jesus literally changed simon's name to "Rock"). Jesus prayed especially for Peter when satan wanted to sift them like wheat, Jesus gave Peter alone the keys to the kingdom, not the other apostles. Peter was always listed first in the Gospels, and they used the word "Protos" in greek (Protos Petrus) which means first, not in chronology but in importance and authority.
@@deacon6221
10:15 I hate commenting multiple times because it can be viewed as troll-like, but I disagree here as well. The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church both believe their infallible teachings must be in line with the Bible, because if they opposed the Bible, then they would be wrong and thus not infallible. In that regard, they both believe that the Church must submit to the Word of God.
I'm catholic but for me denomination is not important
Average Protestant church: 🤢School gym
Average catholic/orthodox church: 🥰 grand 200 year old architecture with beautiful glass panes
That depends on the Protestant church. Typical non-denominational, yes. Anglican and Lutheran, no.
@@theodosios2615 yeah those Anglican and Lutheran Churchs (at least in Europe) used to be Catholic
As an orthodox I respect and love my catholic brothers and sisters. The true church split to orthodox and catholic. We are both the churches of Jesus Christ
I love my orthodox brothers and sisters too, and christianity as a whole would be better if we both reunited under one church sharing our foundation in Christ.
@user-zi7gd9pn3l What would Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism uniting look like? Orthodoxy submitting to the pope? Half-hearted get togethers?
Ecumenism is heresy
@@noahedlen8053 Only God Knows. However the orthodox would have to recognize the bishop of Rome as the highest authority, but they should also be able to keep their autonomy, and have a say in the workings of the church.
Branch theory is heretical. Only the Orthodox Church is the true Church
People want something that is historical and liturgical, which doesn’t exist in non-denom big Eva. And since all Protestants have been reduced to that, people forget classical Protestantism is a thing, and go for for Rome or the East.
Former Presbyterian Reformed, now Catholic Candidate.
Strong Protestants become Catholics.
Love you man, but this kinda video kinda just felt like you coping with "just stay protestant guys, we also have nice churches too, they don't really wana be Catholic, its just a trend, protestants can appreciate both sides of the schism instead of one" (even though Catholics respect the orthodox much more than your average protestant who thinks they are pagan idolaters along side Catholics)
Anyways, we're waiting for you ❤ God bless!
I disagree because it's something I've noticed as well that the people getting into Catholicism are doing so to defy modern decadence.
As a Catholic to be former baptist I’ll say we can both learn from the other like baptist mimoriseing scripture the church could benefit from this. We called them sword drills.
3:01 For Orthodoxy, it's very simple why Westerners only recently started converting, before 1990, most Eastern European countries who used to be Orthodox were forced to become atheists by the communists in early 20th century. Many churches and monasteries were either closed or worse, destroyed.
Another reason was the advent of the internet and the world is more global now, so we now know more about different cultures and their history just by clicking a few buttons.
Because we're based, that's why✝🔥🔥🇻🇦💪🔥🇻🇦
The pope is not catholic
This makes me want to retake the kingdom Jerusalem 🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦
Extremely common Catholic W
I recognise you from discord
@@Michael_Chater God bless you.
Catholic here. I converted from a Pentecostal church, believe me Catholicism wasn’t my first choice. But on one side were the non denominational churches, meaning they didn’t have big crowd and were big trump supporters, didn’t have a big love for studying theology. On the other side there were the mainline Protestant, meaning they were more liberal in theology and didn’t have a big crowd either. the only church in my town that seemed to shine like a beacon of hope, was our towns Catholic Church. Biggest church gatherings I’ve ever seen, so passionate. Never looked back. It is an amazing church because the priest is passionate in what he does, like he actually cares. Another point is that we have a lot of financial support. At the other Catholic Churches in the nearby towns and cities which I’ve visited, the people there have a love of studying theology, something mainline Protestants
and non denomationals don’t often do from my perspective.
its quite simple, "to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant"
if you look at the early Church you will end up looking at either Catholicism or Orthodoxy
it’s because catholism and orthodoxy is the truth and was not founded by anyone but Jesus Christ
true
Nope
They both claim the same exclusivity of the truth. They can't both be the truth that was founded by Jesus Christ. The only system in which they can both potentially be part of the body of Christ is actually Protestantism with its actual catholicity of the invisible, yet true church. See Gavin Ortlund for more on this topic.
That statement doesn't make sense, they can't both be right about being the one true church
@@quinnhunt6124 the Roman Church is the catholic orthodox church
When you said Catholics can't appreciate Orthodox traditions, I see your point, but it's wrong. A) many Orthodox churches came back, so the Orthodox tradition is part of the Catholic tradition B) Vatican II.
I want a connection to genuine mysticism and ritual spirituality with religion. Both orthodoxy and catholicism represent very medieval models of christianity which is what I am looking for as someone disillusioned with enlightenment ideas and modernity.
A true knight in a world of fear and treachery 🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦
My brother, come to a Coptic church! We have the mystery, a deep connection to tradition, and a lot of ancient philosophy from the many wise people who were part of our church in the days of early Christianity. While some traditions and our liturgical language are strange to most catechumens at first, it is worth investing in. If you are searching, come during or after liturgy and learn! We will be more than happy to welcome you.
But medieval worshipping is already very different from the ways the first Christians worshipped. If you're looking for something really original, you'll have to go back in the past from 1000-1500 years and it'll not look like the syncretism that came out of the fusion of the Roman Empire with Christianity.
You need go back to the scriptures if you want to see how the old folks worshipped God.
Some tips
1- go to catholic church. If you have a byzantine rite or something that might be interesting(haven't done research on that tho)
2- learn Latin. It will allow you to read many important books and church stuff from the original language(optional)
3- read in general
4-pray every day.
@@zackwumpus9364 Most of the really old stuff is likely in Greek. Only Catholic texts will use Latin.
I’m skeptical of how large the numbers actually are. Especially with Eastern Orthodoxy seeing as how it’s essentially a rounding error in the West.
I’m very skeptical when it comes to numbers too, especially RCC numbers. I’d be willing to bet that almost half those people were cradle and then left the faith. Religion as a whole is declining in many parts of the world.
I love your content man. I'm a Catholic. And I appreciate that you are fighting against this theological liberalism. But... the reason I am Catholic is the Magisterium. It is the best defense against heresy and theological liberalism. The German bishops are giving us trouble as well but Pope Francis just condemned both schisms, Bishop Strickland (traditionalist schismatic) and the German bishops (liberal schismatic)
The Catholic Church is not only historically superior in its origin to every other church via apostolic succession but also holds the best defense against heresy and threats to orthodoxy in the universal magisterium. I think I'll stay here, rather than be committed to perpetual schism. It'll never end dude.
There's more to it than that. Protestantism has its roots in rejecting tradition and the authority of the Church, in favor of the Bible -- which, as you note in another video, was actually assembled _by_ the Church; Protestants then felt empowered to reject several books based on ... what? Basically, they didn't like them. But Christianity isn't about _liking_ the teachings; indeed, some of Jesus' kerygmata are referred to as "hard sayings" or "hard teachings."
Catholic teachings agree with you that "the Church" == "the body of all believers." After all, we are saved by (active) faith, and those who have that faith will therefore be saved, whether they are Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, "non-denominational," Evangelical, or what-have-you. Scripture says that whoever believes will be saved -- not whoever believes and has the right theology.
But there are layers of the Church, and the Catholic church is -- in our opinion -- the second-most central layer (the most central being the Saints in Heaven).
It is funny to me how the people who insist upon "sola Scriptura" are the ones most likely to ignore the parts of the Bible they don't like. -- that is _not_ a hit at you, as you seem to be a perfectly decent human being and a perfectly good Christian! I am referring to those who use Scripture as a support for their hatreds and prejudices.
There is a lovely cartoon showing, on one side, a group of people carrying Bibles, and on the other, Jesus, and Jesus is saying, "You use Scripture to explain what Love means. I use Love to explain what Scripture means." Even Paul made it clear, that Love was greater even than Faith.
I seem to have wandered. Where was my point? Ah: I'm a cradle Protestant, and not a Zoomer by any means -- late Boomer -- who, well into adulthood, turned to Rome after periods attending Episcopalian, Presbyterian, and Congregational churches. Why did I turn to Rome? Because I believe that the Catholic church and its Tradition are the result of two thousand years of some of the best minds in human history pondering deeply on, yes, Scripture, and that for me to reject those results would really just be intellectual pride. Your mileage, obviously, may vary. I'm not trying to convert you to Catholicism. I'm explaining myself, and rather badly at that. So I'll shut up now.
As a Catholic, I’m both subscribed and support your efforts, considering we sharpen and improve one another. Of course recognize that we are still connected as Christians while still praying and working for the day we become closer as one! I also really respect your civility and efforts.
I think your points are probably correct for at least some when it comes to the initial draw. I will say though, I do think that increasingly genuine religious Zoomers tend to be better informed about the faith compared to the more numerous individuals of recent generations passed. Or at least they may become so. Even with the Catholics, who only relatively recently finally woke up and stopped trying to simplify things and appease the militant liberal anti-religious masses, in the face of what should’ve been seen at the time as the poor arguments from the short-lived new atheist movement, inaccurate pop history clichés, the continuing imperialist social liberal culture, and so on, that requires knowledge and wisdom to properly refute. Adults couldn’t express the fullness of their faith. And for what they did know they didn’t have the knowledge for why something was what it was in the first place. Why is this tradition there? What’s the why behind this a rule, not just what is it? Without proper teaching and knowledge confusion set in, people either becoming closed off or lost their faith, they were unable to pass the Faith on properly to the next generation. It was up to Zoomers to go on the Internet and elsewhere to seek out knowledge for themselves, and be guided by actual well-versed and educated Catholic and non-Catholic apologists, historians, priests, and practitioners. Such a thing must never be allowed to happen again.
I also think it needs to become re-normalized to see the explicitly religious in every aspect of society. There currently still is, and used to be many more, visible and dressed monks and “part-time” priests seen working throughout all scientific institutions, hospitals, and other institutions alongside the Church. Not only do they need to speak up that they’re there, it needs to become a more visible pushed vocation in my view. Religion is not something to be relegated to the Churches and individual homes. If it is, it’s only a matter time before it’s under threat of being crushed (though it never can be fully of course). Then though, our country and civilization becomes truly lost. This we must fight for humbly and righteously.
Zoomer, it does not logically follow that just because I am Catholic and believe the Catholic Church is the “one true Church” then therefore I cannot appreciate Orthodoxy. I can appreciate how Islam opposes same-sex marriage while affirming they are not the true religion.
You claim that you can appreciate a specific element of something, without accepting the whole. Exactly who said that you couldn't?
Years ago, I was on the road to becoming Eastern Orthodox due to falling in love with the aesthetics, the beauty and reverence of the divine liturgy, and also naively buying into the meme of "original unchanged One True Church since 33 AD."
I left once I dug a little deeper and became bothered by the doctrinal issues, crypto-paganism, as well as the Pharisaism baked into the tradition, and eventually found my way to Lutheranism.
Pharisaism? In what way? I'm currently a Catechumen and curious
@@brendanferrell9519 Some examples:
I was part of an Orthodox church that subscribed to the literalness of the Aerial Tollhouses and the 40 days of prayer over a soul once they depart. [Orthodox churches in general are divided over this. Some say the Aerial Tollhouses are literal; some say they are just a metaphor; some say they are a gnostic heresy that has no place in the church at all, etc. It all depends on the particular branch you may be a part of (i.e. Russian Orthodox churches in general tend to be more in favor of the literalness of the Aerial Tollhouses, like ROCOR for example.)]
Some of the sins that you can be dragged to Hell over by Tollhouse demons include: too much or loud laughter; eating between meals; choosing tasty over plain food.etc.
I could understand laughing at dirty jokes or at someone else's expense being a sin, but just merely laughing a bit too much or too loud? Eating between meals? Going to Hell if your food happens to taste better than cardboard? I found such things to be extremely legalistic.
Then there were bizarre holdovers seemingly from the Old Covenant. My Aunt was part of an Orthodox church that did not allow her to be present at her own child's Baptism due to it being 'her time of the month.' My Aunt sat in a corner and cried, and then left that church and never went back. That, as well as little things adding up, like women not being allowed behind the iconostasis to even clean and maintain the altar area.
Finally, we formerly had a priest who got a divorce, and was commanded to become a celibate priest in response. He couldn't handle that, and was not allowed to be a priest afterwards, and eventually got remarried. Our church was thus without a priest for a long time, and because of that was literally dying out. We tried to work something out to allow our former priest to function in some capacity as a priest in the spirit of Orthodox economia (flexibility rather than strictness), for the sake of our little church staying alive and functional... but the higher ups wouldn't budge an inch.
That's what I mean by Pharisaical: legalism that is either nonsensical, or even self-destructive due to valuing the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law.
@SolitaireZeta The toll houses are relegated to theological opinion in Orthodoxy. Even if you thought it to be legalistic, it's not like it was dogma? So I guess I don't understand the extreme reaction, outside of many in your parish believing it. At my Greek Orthodox parish, it's not much of an issue.
Also, I see that some Priests have perhaps made odd decisions, but how is that any difference from the idea of a bad church/pastor? I'll say it is a failure that your parish did not quickly recieve a replacement priest. It is true that a Priest who breaks his vows may not serve, however
@@brendanferrell9519 That's the thing: Not only were the Tollhouses not merely only an opinion where I was at, but I don't think that the Aerial Tollhouses should even be entertained as an opinion at all, period. It's literally 2nd century Valentinian Gnosticism gussied up in a Christian-esque coat of paint, that fundamentally alters the nature of the Gospel.
I also think that a Church surviving and serving its area is far more important than dying out because of priestlessness due to a technicality in the large scheme of things. The souls of the congregants in the area mattered far more than the letter of the law in this unique case.
@SolitaireZeta Then why not move parishes? Why because Protestant instead?