Why Are Evangelicals Becoming Catholic and Orthodox?
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- I'm most excited about how many people are becoming Christians for the first time right now, but I'm also curious as to why so many Christians are changing affiliations within Christianity right now as well. In this video I talk with Redeemed Zoomer and Keith Foskey about that.
Here's how to find them:
Redeemed Zoomer: / @redeemedzoomer6053
Keith Foskey: / @conversationswithacal...
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protestant my entire life, about a year ago started bible in a year with FR. Mike Schmitz. Asked "why do Catholics believe what they believe" found Trent Horn, Jimmy Akin at Catholic answers. Learned about historical documents and early church fathers which finally convinced me at least 70% which is enough to seek out a priest. Found an FSSP Latin community/priest, began catechesis under him and got confirmed Easter 2024! Best decision and experience ever!
Since then I've experienced incredible increases in many areas in my life. personal miracles if you will. Things I never thought possible. I can finally say i am truly on the road to Sainthood here in the Church. Confession and communion are POWERFUL gifts from God that I never had as a protestant and am so grateful that God chose me to be able to receive them when I could have easily stayed blind to it. Praise GOD!
Personal miracles! That’s what happened to me as well and I couldn’t deny it. It was Holy as well. I started to hate sin and my heart changed. It was amazing. I am using your term! Love it. Welcome home.
Deo Gratias
Deo Gratias!
Church of Rome posits a false gospel. Repent for your harlotry
Amen! Beautiful testimony brother. Thank you for sharing. I’m sure you’ve had some evangelical friends express their “concerns” during your journey. I found that once I openly shared my journey into liturgy with my mega-church friends and family the response was concerns about my salvation. 5 years later I’m stronger and firmer in my faith than ever before and praise God for His grace and mercy in leading me to the more historical, liturgical truth. Keep the faith, stay strong!
On my way to become Catholic. Pray for me
@@hernanmartinez1452 excited for you. It’s a life upgrade.
I am too! Started RCIA this week. Praying for you in your journey. The church is and will continue to be strengthened by converts!
@@Michelle071 That's amazing Michelle!! I'll definitely pray for you too.
Why would you become a Catholic?
Deus vult! Pax et bonum on your journeys.
People are tired of evangelical motivation speaker Ted talks without any substance sermons and for some reason they are resonating with the tradition and history of RC and EO churches
So they are running to a false religion? I think this was foretold. Religion that elevates Mary as deity and pray to idols (saints)
@@psynurseyour assuming it’s a false church which non of these guys stated, what makes them false from a independent church Protestant view my friend?
@@psynurse funny, they think the same of evangelicals. Whose perspective is truth? Only God knows.
@@psynurse I don't think the "Great Apostasy" is when a percentage of Protestants rejoin the oldest, largest Churches. We ARE seeing a Great Apostasy, but it's the rise of secular progressivism and the decline of Christianity in the West - Those becoming Catholic/Orthodox are doing so, in part, to more fully oppose secularism and get back to the historical roots of Christianity.
@@psynursehow can orthodoxy in example be false when it was founded in first century during apostoles. Read didakhe. They are still holding on to all their apostolic traditions
For me, it was because I decided to honestly engage with what the Catholic Church teaches with an open mind. I wasn’t looking to accept or disprove, just understand. And I was blown away. It was so much deeper than anything I had learned as a Protestant. And it was not the cartoonish “unbiblical” church evangelical preachers had made it out to be. I felt like I had been lied to about Catholicism my entire life…
Same. I feel like Protestants, because Protestantism grew out of Western Christianity and because they know that Jesus prayed that we the Church might be one, have to paint a caricature of the Catholic Church to justify being separate from the Catholic Church from which their denominations sprung. That caricature is certainly what I grew up with. But I don't think this misrepresentation (in most cases) comes from any ill intent today: it's just accumulated thinking of about five centuries now.
Raised pentecostal, became Catholic Easter 2023. Best decision of my Life. Praise Jesus!
Out of curiosity, what type of Pentecostal?
@@g.h.baugus3168 Church of God TN
Former Pentecostal (IPHC) that is now Anglican (PCUSA). Reason: Emphasis on God's call to all (Prov 1) and acceptance of all who respond.
I just got confirmed into the Catholic Church today! On the feast of Corpus Christi too!🕊️❤️ feeling beyond blessed
Congratulations!
Welcome home Tyler!
Congratulations!
Welcome home!
@@keeperofthedomus7654 thank you so much! God bless you! 🕊️
@@chacob3380 thank you !!🕊️
I was raised agnostic by my Muslim mother and Baptist father and became an evangelical non-denom protestant in 2020. I was baptized in the Orthodox Church in March of 2024. Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory forever
I have been investigating since 2019. Finally became a catechumen last December and will probably be bartized on September 1. ☦
@@DRiceArizona God bless. Stay repentant. Stay Strong!
Gloria indeed!!! Such a journey you have been on!! May God grant you peace, love and joy and the humility to know your brokeness.
I grew up a United Methodist, believing in choir specials and covered dishes. In high school I had a profound spiritual experience that my Methodist pastor could not help me with and was completely lost. I became Catholic, later I became a priest, and was so happy that the Lord led me to a place that I found I could have faith in real spiritual experiences. I met the Lord in the Methodist Church but really came to believe in His awesome love for us as a Catholic.
You mind shedding some light on this experience you had? Thank you sir!
@@snufkin4568 It was something that had to do with the Virgin Mary and since the Methodist "book of Discipline" considers that she is just a woman who won a type of lottery when she had Jesus and they need to deny that anything could ever happen involving her intercession, he refused to believe me.
I'm a millenial (32), raised Baptist, and became Catholic seemingly right before this trend apparently started. It wasn't for ideological reasons. I just studied the history of the biblical canon which lead to broader church history, which lead to sacramental theology and apostolic ecclesiology. I really didn't want to become Catholic because of biases I was raised with, so I seriously considered Orthodoxy and visited liturgies and made friends with good priests and laity. After a few years of uncomfortable fence sitting I relented and became Catholic, right in the middle of 2020. Now I'm on parish council and have a little Catholic family of my own lol. Anyways, that's my reason. I still greatly value the low church tradition I was raised in and the love of Christ and scripture it gave me.
Praise God for your journey!
I really don’t understand the notion that people are just “following a trend” to join RC or Othodox church. The common theme amongst converts is : “please God don’t let me become Catholic!”
People are entering the church even against their inclinations! Because they truly trust God to guide them into all truth.
@@Jerome616 Sorry. I didn't mean trend as in fad. I just meant it's become a common pattern online to the point that people have noticed and videos like this are being made. That wasn't yet the case when I was wandering into Greek liturgies in 2015.
@@tr1084 to be clear, I was responding to the charge in the video that this was due to a trend. I liked and appreciated your post!
Enjoy worshipping Mary and dead people.
Redeemed Zoomer was not the best person to interview and ask questions such as "why are young people turning to the Orthodox (or Catholic) church?" His answers were uncharitable and came from the perspective of an upset outsider looking in. Outside of those questions this was an interesting conversation
Agreed. Very much snark with little substance behind his claims
Ever since his discussion with Jay Dyer where he was confronted by a former Calvanist with deep knowledge on Calvin's theology and the subsequent angry discord messages from Zoomer were leaked, he's been resentful and openly uncharitable towards the EO position. All we can do is pray that he becomes illumined and his heart softens.
I've run into him in other comment sections and he is just like you say. He is blind because of his pride.
Can't have an opinion on it if you haven't even had genuine conversation with RC and EO
@@austinpissey8789 Yah, it all started with his video on why Orthodox views were wrong, without even bothering to even try to understand what the Orthodox even think. Sadly it escalated in that conversation Jay Dyer. He basically started a theological fight with people who understood his position, but he didn't understand theirs. And then got upset when he got the short end of the stick. Granted, Kyle and Dyer didn't behave the best and failed to take the high road, but it seemed like they were matching what he was putting out from the start. At least, that was my read of what happened.
I was raised evangelical and I converted to Catholicism in 2015. I’ve never felt closer to Christ.
Welcome home!
That's awesome bro I'm In OCIA rn, can't wait for first communion 🙏
Amen to that
Me too. I always thought I was close to Christ before, but my love for Him has grown 100x over since I have converted.
@@alissarehmert2502 Amen Sister !🕊️❤️
Maybe Protestants are becoming Catholic because they came to recognize Him in the breaking of the Bread.
Maybe protestants become catholic because they don't want to think for themselves anymore.
I see what you did there my bible loving friend ;)
yes!! I converted because Christ is in the Eucharist! where else would I go?
Classical protestantism believe in the presence of Christ as well.good enough for me.
@@robbchristopher158 Believing in a concept does not make it actually happen. I could be a protestant that believes in apostolic succession, but that doesn’t make a eucharist that I celebrate truly valid. Your belief is deficient and fails the historical christian test.
I'm yet another Baptist-to-Orthodox Christian convert, and the reason for my conversion is simply because Orthodoxy provides the theological depth and the practical tools of repentance that I've found necessary to attain my salvation. I have known far holier Christians than me who've thrived off crumbs of the Lord's Truth, but in my weakness, I need the entire loaf of Truth to not starve.
So you belive that you have not already attained* your salvation?
@@zzzzz77771 I am saved, I am being saved, I will be saved; this is the motto derived in part from Philippians 2, wherein salvation is worked out with fear and trembling. The Orthodox notion of salvation as I understand it is a process that lasts from the time you ask Christ to have mercy upon you, much like the thief on the cross, until God grants you the grace of theosis in Him. This process may be completed in life, or be finished after earthly death, according to His will.
So, one is saved as soon as they repent and have faith in Christ as their Lord and Savior, but that salvific process continues. It doesn't stop there. Apologies for any misunderstandings in advance, Protestants and Orthodox often talk past each other when it comes to salvation.
That’s a great way to put it.
@@KnoxEmDown. Clear enough, I suppose, but you’re not really offering a distinction from Protestant soteriology. I can easily say that I am saved, that I am being saved, and that I will be saved. As Paul remarks in the third chapter of Philippians:
“Not that I have already attained this…or that I have already been made perfect, but I press on…that I may lay hold of that for which I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.”
There is indeed a process to Protestant soteriology. As you probably know, we call it sanctification, but it is part and parcel of salvation. Where we differ is that we take it seriously when the writer of Hebrews declares Jesus to be the “author and FINISHER” of our faith.
In Philippians 2, it not only says that we are to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling,” but that “it is God who is at work within us both to will and to do.” Providence is more than just a helping hand now and again. God is our strong ally who simply will not let us fail.
You wouldn’t tell a good friend of yours, “We’re going to walk across this girder now, a thousand feet above the ground. I’m used to it. I’ve walked these girders every working day for twenty years or so. I’m not likely to fall. If you feel yourself getting shaky. Put out your hand, and I’ll set you straight. But if you slip and fall without putting out your hand, that’s on you. If you fall, you fall.” That’s NOT a savior! It’s merely a helpmeet. Maybe life is easy for you. All you need is an assistant. It’s not that easy for me. I need a strong and steady protector! One who will not let me go.
@@HannahClapham love this response!
As someone who used to be Protestant and is now Catholic I would like to answer the question about what draws people to it. There are so many reasons to believe in Catholicism but what really drew me in was reading early Christian writings and recognizing the Catholic Church and Catholic teachings in them, and the fact that the Church acts like a Mother hen that gathers Her chicks under Her wings. She guides us and teaches us in such a clear way!
I’m becoming Catholic, I was always a Protestant. I got tired of the bands and non denom churches, and the just feel good about Jesus theology. I want the church that has stood the ages, I feel I can glorify Jesus the best in the Catholic Church.
Well said!
Hi Brother/sister in Christ. You’re right. As a lifelong Catholic I have visited several non denominations church and honestly I love their fervor and admiration of our lord. But it all still boils down to our love and respect for the sacraments especially the sacrament of Eucharist. Once a person truly understand the point behind the Eucharist, it’s presence and our commitment to reconciliation which makes us truly truly hate sin and move away from it to a process of sanctification in our daily life, life changes. It’s almost like a born again process and the Eucharist keeps us inline sort of like a highway to heaven. Peace be with you.
@chrisr348
Newsflash: The Catholic Eucharist is NOT "Holy" at all.. especially since it's given out by a Church that's "Accursed", "Anathematized" and "Eternally Condemned" by it's preaching of "Another Gospel"..as well as..4,000 (and counting) First Degree Felon Catholic Priests..who became Defiled..when they had their hands down the pants of 330,000 Children when the got caught RAPING AND SEXUALLY ASSAULTING them.. possibly weeks, days or even hours..before handing out the Eucharist..which made the Eucharist Desecrated..and UNHOLY!
I can understand your switch and as I respect *some* of what the Roman Church teaches,I have many Catholics who I love deeply,but, there's too much in traditional dogma that I refuse and could not take part in with good conscience.
I was raised in the SBC, I broke with that a few years ago and now attend an ACNA (Anglican) church with a traditional liturgical service.
I was an anti-Catholic Calvinist for a long time. Very thankful to have converted to Catholicism about a year ago after a couple years of studying the early church and hearing Catholic side of things
Do you see any discrepancies or problems with church history?
@@soteriology400 no
@@soteriology400 of course there are problems. We've had bad popes, bishops, monarchs, etc. But the Church endures. It's teachings endure. Nobody is Catholic because of those folks. They're Catholic in spite of them because it is THE Church that was established by Jesus and it's members will be imperfect. The Bride, however, is perfect.
@jambangoni congrats! You came from one of the most anti-catholic baskin robins ice cream flavors. John MacArthur haveth not love, just hate. So sad.
@@soteriology400 I’m sure. I don’t know exactly what you mean by problems or discrepancies.. in doctrine?
Redeemed zoomer is acting like people wake up and say "I'm Catholic now." Every convert I know, myself included, went through a serious discernment process (mine took years actually), not to mention that the fact that RCIA is required for new entrants is a guardrail against that.
Yeah, thats what I was thinking. It’s true there are many more young men at my church (EO) but all of them either went through a long discernment or are still going through it.
You can’t just call your self Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic, you have to actually become a member of the church. It’s not just an online thing.
Also, just to add in a conversation I don’t really see how I they can have a serious discussion while lumping Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism in the same boat. I don’t think it shows a good understanding of apostolic faiths.
Agreed, it took me 6 years of serious study, prayer, and fasting.
Yeah, I was surprised when I noticed that this conversation didn't include an actual convert. Seems like redeemed zoomed is criticizing "Internet orthodoxy" etc. My priest and others in the Orthodox community have criticized the same! That's not a fair representation of this movement in general.
Protestant to Catholic requires time and intense study. Converts to Catholicism have become more knowledgeable.
Catholic to non-denominational doesn’t require anything. It’s for those who have found Catholicism too hard or just never understood it. It’s like dropping out.
I became Catholic in 2022, but my journey started in 2018. I jumped around churches, Baptist, Methodist, nondenominational, etc, but none of them felt right. Add the slow slip into Liberalism and continued fracture of Protestantism, I say the Papacy and Magisterium as a authoritative voice guiding the Church. Adding the support from the Early Church Fathers and rich philosophical and theological traditions, the Catholic Church just makes sense.
The catholic church is the one who continously fractures. Ever heard of "old catholics"? Only because they claim that the remaining rest is catholic can they retain the illusion of more unity.
I found my home in a Episcopal church that is in between moderate and conservative. I really enjoy listening to the nightly compline of the book of common prayer.
Former Baptist here, I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy at the beginning of this year, and it quickly became manifest to me that it was the best decision I’ve ever made in my life. I will never go back. ☦️
After starting my journey over 5 years ago I finally was baptised into EO last Sunday on the start of the Church calendar (coincidence, but will make it easy to remember how long... 😁),
I and my husband, now priest and long-time catechist, became Orthodox 25 years ago along with many other Protestant converts, into a convert church. This is not a new trend. It’s just that Protestants are now noticing. The influx we’re seeing now is not necessarily a net growth, as many since covid have also left Christianity. As you said, Tradition and apostolic succession are surely reasons, but if I had to say, from the hundreds of catechumens we’ve encountered over the years, you’ve really underestimated the draw to the Sacraments (excepting Matt’s mention of the benefits of Confession). Partaking of the Mystery of Communion is certainly the number one reason anyone becomes Orthodox. When one becomes Orthodox, one begins to understand it as the height of our Union with Christ, a way he provided for us that’s beyond our understanding but so necessary. This is the best tool for Christian growth, not to mention all the other disciplines in our Tradition. When we become Christians, yes, we are saved, but we still sin. That makes us sick. The Church is a hospital and we need its medicine. Simply put, I think it has better, tangible tools for living the Christian life. This is the number one reason we see from countless converts over many years. I think this is largely overlooked by Protestant commentators because they just don’t understand how this could be the case, IMO.
I became Catholic last year. The Holy Eucharist is the Source and Summit of my worship and faith. I never believed in Sola Fide, and I no longer believe in Sola Scriptura. I guess those are the main reasons. There is also the focus on Church history and the Church Fathers...I have so much to learn that we just didn't talk about in Protestantism.
welcome home!
Interesting. So you don't think the Scriptures are the only source of God's truth, so I assume you include the church in the totality of revealing God's church (in your case the RCC), so what do you do when the two conflict?...
That's the origin of Sola Scriptura, it was born from the Catholic Churches diabolical behaviour during the Middle Ages , where they did whatever they liked because they didn't have a standard to be held to as they didn't hold to Sola Scriptura.
How do you know, as a Catholic, that your church will not return to those ways?
The Catholic Eucharist is NOT "Holy" at all.. especially since it's given out by a Church that's "Accursed", "Anathematized" and "Eternally Condemned" by it's preaching of "Another Gospel"..as well as..a lot of its Priests (4,000 and counting)..who became Defiled..when they had their hands down the pants of 330,000 Children (and counting) possibly weeks, days or even hours..before handing out the Eucharist..which made the Eucharist Desecrated..and UNHOLY!
Yes. This. I converted because of the Eucharist, not because of TikTok.
I became Orthodox because no one could square what we were being taught with a method of Living.
I was slandered, ridiculed and belittled constantly for my desire for any sort of Doctrinal Unity by both Pastors and people in my Evangelical Church.
I spent 3 years "Seeking", some of that coincided with the Coof, and eventually I decided that once I could attend Church again I would join LCMS or WELS.
I ran away from home and fell in with not so great people. I started attending Liturgy at a Greek Parish and realized I could never go back.
One thing Evangelical Protestantism gave me was a deep love for Scripture and becoming Orthodox completed that Love.
Yeah buddy! I am 1-2 months into discovering orthodox and loving it. Agree with you that there is a disconnect between most churches teaching and their actions of life.
Here's 11 honest reasons why I started to look into the Roman Catholic Church as a Non-denominational Christian and am still wresting through....
1. Grieved by commercialism/"branding" of 'action-verb' Churches.
2. Grieved by 'Big Personality/Showmanship' Culture and the pride it fosters.
3. Grieved by doctrinal disunity on almost everything (soteriology, eschatology, communion, baptism, spiritual gifts, on and on and on.
4. Grieved by a culture of triumphalism.
5. Frustrated by the neglect of the meaning of objectively beautiful art and music vs KLove.
6. Grieved by the business model of church.
7. Grieved by cheap communion (a tic tac wafer and a plastic thimble of Welch's grape juice).
7. Having thoughts like, "Is this it...?"
8. The frustration/bewilderment of such low 'success' in my narrow evangelical Christianity that assumed Catholics/Orthodox are wholesale unsaved but yet comprise of the majority of believers presently and obviously historically.
9. Evangelistic/Charismatic "Holy Spirit Russian Roulette" in public and realizing that the Sacraments are Holy Spirit bound in a consistent/predictable way by faith.
10. Realizing that many protestant doctrines.beliefs are new (dispensationalism/cessationism/calvinism, symbolic communion, rapture, etc) and not found in the Church for 1500 years.
11. Catholics/Orthodox aren't Calvinist and have never been.
.
.
.
Then I've realized so many things I love happen to be of Catholic origin/influence/inspiration....we as protestants are eating the fruit but neglecting the tree its from.
1. Frank Capra's "Its A Wonderful Life"
2. The Passion of the Christ
3. Jonathan Roumie of 'The Chosen'
4. J.R.R. Tolkien and 'The Lord of the Rings'
5. Rich Mullins desiring to receive the Eucharist and his Franciscan Vow of Poverty shortly before his untimely death
6. Christ's-Mass on December 25th
7. Christmas Carols
8. Culture of Chivalry
9. Christendom
10. Enya
11. G.K. Chesterton
.
.
.
Then you have to deal MAJOR 'wrenches' in the protestant system....
1. Tammy Peterson (Jordan Peterson's wife) gets miraculously healed through praying the Rosary and wearing the Scapular. Do we just write it off? Just 'demonic healing'?
2. Fatima. Just didn't happen? It was demonic?
3. Marian Apparition "Our Lady of Guadalupe" during the Prot Reformation/Western Schism. Again, just demonic?
I could go on...but there you go.
This is a solid list. I would really like to continue the conversation sometime. Unsure the best way to proceed, but I am a catechist in the Catholic Church and a lay spiritual director. Let’s find a way to connect. God Bless 🙏
@@33AD-Catholic Thank you. Just emailed ya. Bless you!
Thank you very much. This gives me quite a it to ponder.
If tou have the Hallow app ot has great music on it. It's my favorite part after Bible in a Year.
To pick just one item on your list, if you look deeply into Our Lady of Guadalupe, you will be awed by all the evidence that this had to be of God. The only other option is that it is a conspiracy…but that overused word “conspiracy” still fails to explain the miraculous nature of this apparition. And if this image is somehow a painting made by hand (which it is not), it would be the greatest painting in the world, surpassing the Mona Lisa, etc. To have the greatest painting in the history of the world painted as part of a conspiracy is ridiculous. No painter could have painted this, there are too many details that are beyond human imagination and ability.
Matt, I really appreciate your empathy and compassion for the "other" - you speak about people from other Christian perspectives in a way that affirms their dignity. I really admire and respect that!
Baptist to Catholic and glad I left the American religion and came home to the universal church.
Broooooo, you hit the nail on the head.
Once I realized that Baptist is so hyper culture/times specific, I couldn't unsee it.
My former church *couldn't* exist in 1200AD.
My current Church (Catholic) did exist in 1200AD.
I think what’s missing from this discussion is that if you are convinced that Christianity is true, then the most important thing is the Eucharist. As a lifelong Protestant, soon to be received into the Orthodox Church, I knew that the treatment of the “Lords Supper” was not in keeping with early Christianity. There is an incredible continuity between the Orthodox practice and Biblical Judaism. The centrality of the sacrifice, the priests, liturgy. It all represents an unbroken chain that, once experienced and taken seriously is completely absent elsewhere and is totally convincing, at least for me!
Did they really not talk about the Eucharist??
Protestantism: the belief that God is capable of creating the universe but not capable of becoming present in bread
Important topic
Same for me as a Catholic. So sad that Protestants wouldn't even be considered Christian in the first three centuries plus.
The Eucharist was what started my research. Which then leads to historic continuity and apostolic succession.
Not the mention the formation of the canon.
Those are like nails in the coffin.
The most important thing is Jesus and the nature of our relationship to Him.
Further, He stated the greatest commandment is to love God with all you are, the second being to love your fellow man as yourself.
We don't emphasize these things enough and often don't fully grasp that our understandings of many things else are necessarily often incomplete (see 1 Corinthians 13, which addresses these concepts) and may not be fully understood until one day we go home to be with Jesus.
I might wish that we as Christians were not at times so proud, so discriminating in non-central details among ourselves. We separate into denominations and that is probably unavoidable, if only because people want to associate with others of similar conviction, but I just wish we were more supportive of each other in growth with Jesus among the denominations and let Him leas and guide and bring teaching to us.
Southern Baptist seminary grad and pastor, confirmed into the Catholic Church 2 years ago.
that's awesome! please take a look at fr paul truenback's video on orthodoxy and roman catholisicm, it is fascinating! God bless.
Which SBC seminary did you attend? Would love to hear your journey to your current expression of faith.
As a Catholic, I think you're misrepresenting confession. "The priest does the heavy lifting" is incorrect. First, confessing our sins, as is COMMANDED in James, is not an option, Biblically speaking. Then there's John 20, where Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sins. Then there's the power to "bind and loose" sins, also given by Jesus to the apostles.
Through confession I have been able to break habitual sins. It doesn't mean that I stopped being tempted by those sins. I have helped conquer those sins and get them under control. So it is a fantastic gift.
Now, let's talk the logistics of it. Confession is not optional. It is a command in scripture. So how do we implement it effectively? Well, there is a Methodist pastor who converted who shared how he wrestled with this. He saw that Catholics implemented a system that was private, would provide pastor's guidance, and would avoid some pitfalls of the things he was thinking about. He said that if he went for a group setting, you could easily have disagreement over what is a sin or what isn't. But a system where people could come to him and he could keep it private and provide guidance was ideal and he realized that this is exactly what Catholics had put in place.
A practicing Catholic doesn't see confession as a "get out of jail free" card. It is tough. It take humility to go in and verbalize how you failed God. The priest acts as a vessel. The confession is made to Jesus, not Father X.
But here's the one big thing you guys aren't discussing that is THE reason to be Catholic/Orthodox: the Eucharist. We don't go to church on Sunday to be entertained. We don't go because we can't wait to hear what the sermon of Father X is going to be. We don't go for the music. We go to receive Jesus in the resurrected form in the mass. We go to unite with the Church Militant (here on Earth), and the Church Triumphant, which are the saints in heaven. When I go to mass I am united with the saints in heaven, who are celebrating that very mass at my side (as is illustrated in Revelation). No smoke and light show or great preaching will ever compare to that.
There is reverence in our worship while the evangelical churches focus on entertainment and smoke and light shows with a very shallow theology. I remember going to a "non-denominational" service and it was a rock show with preaching and I left feeling totally shallow. I'm not a convert, I was just exploring at that time.
You guys made some very good points, but Protestantism started splitting from itself the moment it came into reality. Catholics consider Orthodox to be in communion with Rome, though schismatic. And there are Orthodox traditions that are in full communion with Rome.
Thank you, and well put. I also found the "church does the heavy lifting" phrase confusing. As individuals we do our own heavy lifting... being a Christian is hard work. "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Yes, for orthodox that want to be in communion with the Catholic Church they convert to eastern rite Catholicism.
Im mormon to babptist to orthodox.
Orthodxy feels like home, its calling me to work harder and be better to fight my passions.
Its a spirtual battlefield im called to be a soldier for christ.
The depth and the saints in orthdoxy are amazing guides and examples for us to follow
God Bless you for the conversion, I hope you will grow in your faith.
Welcome home friend 🎉☦️ Christos ANESTI!
Raised nondenominational, now a TLM-loving Catholic. Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ!
The thing about Catholicism (I don’t know about Eastern Orthodoxy) is that you can’t “identify” as Catholic whenever you feel like it. You have to go through the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA), which is basically a rite of Bible study, community service, and constant reaffirmation of your faith. It’s a long process, but you will be sure of your faith, and you’ll learn to keep what is sacred, sacred. It's not a costume you can take off when you feel like it.
G.K. Chesterton: "The difficulty of explaining “why I am a Catholic” is that there are ten thousand reasons all amounting to one reason: that Catholicism is true".
Eastern Orthodox converts have an entire catechumenate (divine liturgies, catechism classes, life confession etc.) they must go through ranging from 6 months to 3 years depending on the circumstances. The usual catechumenate is about a year. The Orthodox want you to be certain of the holy commitment you're making, the cross you are choosing to bear.
In regards to what constitutes catechism exactly, so many different saints have written their own catechisms (for example the Catechetical Lectures of St. Cyril of Jerusalem) that priests today can choose from a smorgasbord of excellent material. There are also excellent modern works, such as Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev's Orthodox Christianity 5-volume series. His works are huge and good to chew through. The Divine Liturgy itself when understood is the greatest part of catechesis, and the most important considering it is how we offer worship and bloodless sacrifice to God, communing with Him via His Body & Blood.
@@KnoxEmDown ortho bro?
@@Echo-cx2gk In the good sense of "Orthodox brother", yes. I don't have any social media besides youtube lol
I do find catechism to be a good idea that some Protestant denominations do, but I think it should play a greater role.
But I do notice that it is my Catholic brothers that seem to never know their Bible, while my Protestant brothers have it memorized. What good is the catechism if the laity don’t even know the word of God…
I lost my faith in sola scriptura as an epistemology in 2012. I spent almost ten years trying to put it back together; I could not bear the thought of not being Protestant. Finally became Catholic after a decade of trying to avoid it. I am eternally thankful that I did though.
I would love to hear your experience with becoming disenfranchised with Sola Scriptura.
I had that journey, and I'm curious what yours looked like.
As a side note on confession, yes confession feels very satisfying but that is not just because you can get a sense of absolution on something that was bothering you, but a large aspect to the fulfilling nature of confession is the humility it requires. It is relatively easy to confess your sins to God, he already knows you sinned, he knew you were gonna sin before you even did it! Not to say you shouldn't repent your sins to God, but what is "humanly" difficult is to humble yourself and exercise true contrition enough to confess your sins to another person who doesn't already know what you did. That is not an "easy" thing to do. And getting yourself to do that feels fulfilling.
Exactly right. It's not supposed to be easy.
it's one thing to confess your sins to God silently in your head. It's quite something else to say them out loud in the presence of another person. Those sins feel really REAL and as quietly as you speak them, they sound really loud. You face your sin in a very real way and it is impactful. When scripture tells us to confess our sins to one another, it's a powerful thing. The absolution actually helps us to forgive ourselves and fully accept the forgiveness God gives us.
I’ve heard Mother Angelica say that it only makes sense that we confess our sin using our physical senses since it’s through them that we commit sin. We kneel, we speak, we hear and then hopefully by Gods grace, we see a bit more clearly upon leaving.
Amen to that! And what a beautiful and healing experience it is too. The church is the hospital, we are the wounded and we reveal our wounds to the doctors, our priests
Still no reason to leave reformed faith, basis on feelings always could cover lack of reason.
Why did you not ask this question to someone who actually is Orthodox or Roman Catholic?
Meaning no disrespect to Redeemed Zoomer, but his comments about young people impulsively becoming Catholic or Orthodox.. RCIA (now called OCIA) is at a minimum a 7 month process. Just calling to yourself Catholic doesn't make you Catholic. The Church *requires* you to discuss and learn about the faith in an intentional way. This is why a Catholic/Orthodox convert perspective was needed in this discussion, because important facts were just sidestepped. I also think attributing the internet to people converting is reductive. For most people I know, especially with Catholicism, there is often an element of in-person exposure as well to Catholics, visiting cathedrals years before converting, discussing faith with Catholics they've met. And, of course, the Holy Spirit.
Very true. In many Orthodox Churches, the catechumen process can take years. You can’t just walk in to an apostolic Church and immediately start practicing. You have to learn the Faith.
Former Protestant to Orthodox here and you Matt played a part in it when you began touring the Orthodox Churches. Exposure to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is what’s driving people to convert. We have realized that Protestantism cannot bring the fullness of the Faith.
Pretty sure it's small "c" catholic in the Nicene creed to represent the universal church. People always capitalize the C to try to sneak in the institution known as the Roman Catholic Church.
Started reading Joshua Schooping @Disillusioned@
Beware of dangerous ground
@@Gondor149 the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church just as we are True Israel. The Western schismatics are historically called Latins or Papists.
@@Gondor149 where was Rome when the doctrines were canonized? What is the etymology of Catholic? Where is Nicea as in the Nicene Creed?
As an additional former Protestant to Orthodox here, can confirm that Matt's videos with Fr Paul played a major role in really getting my conversion to Orthodoxy started. Glory to God and I pray Matt, RZ and all the rest follow suit!
Should change the video title to 3 Protestants discuss Catholic conversions.
Yup. A very annoying conversation. And rarely any women on these channels.
I’m here
True they not answering the question
Hi Matt, I am a Catholic revert from non-belief. Thank you for your ongoing conversation. I have learned a lot about other Christian groups from your channel.
Redeemed Zoomer can learn so much from Matt. Matt is full of compassion, gentleness, and empathy. Redeemed Zoomer's smug approach, twisting of historical facts, and strawman arguments make him no different from ortho-bros and other zealots on the internet. Matt is more emotionally intelligent, and it shows. Great video :)
Well said!
Yeah his emotional IQ is lacking. Smug is a good word for it.
he is just a kid in the bloc, lol
I don't think that RZ came across like that atall
Yeah, Matt is surprisingly objective. He might have good Catholic friends or he takes the trouble to understand.
I’m was a American Evangelical now a Eastern Orthodox Christian ☦️ Christos ANESTI 🎉
Truly He is Risen!! ROCOR convert last year ☦️
Alēthōs Anëstē ☦
Αληθώς Ανέστη!
Αληθως Ανεστη Ο Κυριος
Christos Anesti!🙏🏻
I was raised evangelical, became an atheist in college, then became Catholic, and am now I becoming a priest. Only the RC and EO church offer a perenial expression of Faith that is in communion with the past, present, and future. You need blinders both/or historically and scientifically to remain Protestant.
That may be the most hubristic statement in this entire section.
I grew up in the Presbyterian church. When I turned 29 I researched deeply into Christianity, theology, history etc and I now attend the Catholic Church. I stopped attending the protestant church every sunday when I turned 18 and for a decade would try to go to many different protestant denominations and got so SICK of the ted talk motivational feel good rock concert. It never felt like I was getting the fullness of the Christian faith. It drove me away from God and into gnosticism. Until I turned 29 and read the Bible and read the writings of the church fathers and saints and had to accept the fact protestantism is not found in the ancient church. I feel the fullness of the Christian faith in the Catholic church and the Eucharist truly heals my mind body and soul every week I take it now. Orthodox and Catholic churches is where you will find the fullness of Christianity. the Catholic mass is where I am truly worshipping God how He wants to be worshipped. Protestants need to humble themselves and GO BACK to how the early Christians practiced Christianity. Solas are not Biblical. Mary is the mother of God. Accept this. to be a student of history is to cease being protestant. Notice how yourcalvinist gentlement always refers back to “ME ME ME” “I I I” the absolute ARROGANCE. You are not the authority sir. All the degeneracy we see in western society today comes from the protestant reformation 500 years ago no coincidence.
I was raised Baptist and have been Catholic for three years now. The more I studied historical and traditional Christianity, the less sense Protestantism made. My first Mass completely blew my mind, it was so alien from the four white walls, worship bands, a TV with hymn lyrics on it, and a 45-minute rambling chloroform-in-speech sermon about three verses of scripture that I grew up knowing as Christianity.
I found Catholicism (and by extension, Orthodoxy) to be the most authentic and worthwhile expression of Christianity that would guide me to grow closer to Christ. I didn't convert to get in on a fad or do the edgy based thing, and the Church has safeguards in place (RCIA/OCIA) to prevent insincere converts from coming in. In short, what I seek I couldn't find in any expression of Protestantism.
Im an evangelical to Catholic convert. Too many reasons to describe in a RUclips comment, but the movement is definitely a thing. My wife, and two best friends are all evangelical to Catholic converts
G.K. Chesterton: "The difficulty of explaining “why I am a Catholic” is that there are ten thousand reasons all amounting to one reason: that Catholicism is true".
welcome home!
Both the Orthodox parishes in my town are getting catechumens out of nowhere. The concert founded one has like fifteen inquirers at any given time.
For me I had never heard of the real presence in the Eucharist growing up and it is something I have yet to find a convincing argument against now. That is the main appeal to me at this moment.
I pray you look up Carlo Acutis: The First Millennial Saint.
Lutheranism retains the real presence in the Eucharist as well, it’s not a position foreign to historic Protestant theology
I left Mormonism as a teenager and became Catholic. Eventually, (hippie era) dabbled in New Age, then became Evangelical. Now, I find myself really wanting to receive the Eucharist. Loved listening to Francis Chan and his journey. Where will I go and stay now?? I am older now... Had a discussion with a friend recently and he too is feeling drawn to the Catholic Church but for now remaining Evangelical.
The best argument is your own eyes. You look at a piece of bread. Not the creator of the universe. No amount of proof texting will convince me that a priest can turn a piece of bread into God.
@@felixcharles9773 true as I believe Methodists also have their version of what “real presence” means that is different than Lutherans and Catholics. It is foreign to a lot of Protestant denominations though. I am trying to sort out a lot of other positions and views of the Catholic Church to determine if say Lutheranism makes more sense to me but right now I am leaning more towards the Catholic Church on those. It took the real presence to ignite this evolution of perspective within me though.
Growing up a Methodist, I later discovered I was lied to about Catholics, how they live their lives, their teachings, etc. I think most prots are lied to about the Catholic/Orthodox Church stemming from their ancestors from the time of the Deformation. The internet or algorithms weren’t a cause for my conversion, the Holy Spirit opened doors for me, little miracles happened that showed me I needed to look into Catholicism. When prots find out this faith going back to Christ himself exists we want to be part of it. Reasons prots become Catholic/Orthodox: the Eucharist, early church fathers, sacraments, the liturgy, the Scripture coming alive through the life of the Church, AUTHORITY. The Church has the authority, not the individual man. It was never supposed to be “Jesus, me and my Bible”.
If you’re part of any church who is centered on the pastor or is named after a man (Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc.), run because it’s a sect, it’s a heresy.
Peace and love.
Your channel helped my conversion to Orthodoxy
Same!
Very sad , I looked at Orthodoxy and saw the errors.
Me, a few of my friends, and my family.
@@dallasbrat81 Keep on looking more
Yay! Christ is risen.
I became a Protestant at age 11. I’m now 33 and converted to orthodoxy last summer.. was baptized this past May as well as my husband and four children! ☦️☦️☦️
For me it was Covid, almost died from pneumonia, i think I was miraculously healed, then was able to from one day to the next quit one of my bad addictions, i’m not even tempted anymore. Praying the Rosary, Confession, the Eucharist, and following the Calendar in the Catholic Church has been amazing. I’m more of a revert btw. But overall it just seems like there’s so much purpose now thanks be to our Lord and Savior.
I do mean tenpted by that particular addiction, obviously all the others, still struggling with.
God bless you on your journey. ❤
Raised Southern Baptist, became Reformed Baptist. Child-like faith, Church history and Our Lady resulted in my conversion.
God Bless.
I'm a Catholic convert because i wanted God's 100% truth. My sister nearly went Norse paganism because of protestantism. Why? So many splintering sects and cults made her think that God couldn't keep his house in order. Only Jesus came in when she was about to verbally renounce him as false for Odin did he stop her. She is also Catholic today by God alone.
Unity is why outsiders find truth in the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. It is also the church where Christ is literally present with us in the Eucharist. Anywhere you go in all corners of the world, there are catholic churches, and all together, we are one body and one mind, with Christ as our head, and the pope as His vicar on earth.
The Lord Jesus Christ's prayer to the Father
John 17:22-23
"I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me."
Romans 15:6
"So that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"
Christ remains in the Catholic church because we are the church that eats His flesh and drinks His blood in the Eucharist.
The Lord Jesus Christ said,
John 6:56
"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him."
Amen!
I grew up nondenominational, but my grandmother is Methodist. Once I started driving I decided to go to the Methodist church. My wife is Catholic and we would go to each others churches. Over the past few years I’ve watched demagogues take over most Protestant faiths for the sole purpose of politics.
Something finally clicked for me that made me realize the importance of our ancient rituals and so I’ve shifted to the RC and EO camp.
And during this journey you missed the fact that a lot of the Christian nationalism BS comes from catholics?
I was raised Christian & Missionary Alliance (a Wesleyan Holiness Protestant tradition), became Catholic because of a mystical experience that was backed up by subsequent study.
Entered the Catholic Church April 16th of 2022, so thankful to be home!
Last 2022 I converted to Catholicism from being anti-Catholic Baptist/Evangelical. 🇵🇭
It's not necessary to speculate as to the reasons so many evangelicals are coming home to the Catholic church. There are countless testimonies of converts on The Coming Home Network, The Journey Home, etc. where they give detailed accounts of their journey. You will not find many (if any) saying it's because of beautiful buildings or traditional liturgy, etc. Most of them read/studied their way into it. For myself, I was born and raised baptist, spent 30 odd years in a non-denominational evangelical church where I was the worship leader (so I was all-in on contemporary worship) and about 15 years as a PCA Presbyterian. When my wife, who was born Catholic but joined me in the Baptist church when she turned 18, returned to the Catholic church about 5 years ago I was alarmed. I of course made all the standard anti-Catholic arguments. But over time, as I dug more-and-more into what the Catholic church actually teaches (as opposed to what I'd been told all my life from Protestant churches) I was forced to realize that the man-made doctrines (like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide) were not only unbiblical but simply crumbled under academic rigor. So I finally stopped protesting and was confirmed into the Catholic Church at the Easter vigil this year. Soli Deo Gloria!
Awesome testimony!
"The difficulty in explaining 'why I am a Catholic' is that there are ten thousand reasons all amounting to one reason: that Catholicism is true.”
-G.K. Chesterton
funny story, I am a (former) Evangelical in the process of becoming Catholic. One of the people who's content pushed me away from Evangelical non-denom Christianity is Redeemed Zoomer. I know he wants to lead people to Mainline Protestant churches, but my research journey led me home to Rome.
I'll expand a little bit, I did the denomination hopping and studying, but I actually did study. I read Concordia and Studied the 39 Articles of Faith, read works of the Church Fathers, and attended a variety of Churches for a little while. My initial dive into Catholicism wasn't intellectual, but rather spiritual. I attended a Mass and had a profound feeling of awe and fear that I had never experienced towards the Eucharist. Once I had that experience I dove into Catholic Apologetics and have attended every Sunday since and will be in R.C.I.A. this summer to officially join the Church family.
It is surprising how a Christian could say "wow, Presbyterianism is truly the best wholistic truthful expression of Christianity." It feels like you either have to go wholesale Evangelical...or Ecumenical....or Roman Catholic/Orthodox. But picking a mainline Prot Denomination after Rome had major reforms in the 1500s seems intellectually dishonest. Like, what exactly are we as protestants protesting anymore in regard to Luther's protest?
Praise God! I'm praying for you in your continued discernment and RCIA process
Well said Matt. Appreciative Canadian Catholic.
Important to note that you can't just "become Catholic" after watching social media. New potential converts have to take months of classes before being brought into full communion. It can never be a spur of the moment uninformed decision ultimately.
Same for Orthodoxy
Your man made classes are known about
@@dallasbrat81 Not a great comment, genuine apostolic Churches have always started new Christians as neophytes/novices, right back to the beginning of the Church. If you don't know the reason for this, its easily researched.
@@HOSPlTALLER cool I’ll keep listening to God and you can follow your man made dogma. I’ve studied orthodox for years and I like most of it except you’re insisting on idol worship as mandatory is a no for me . I’m a ACTS 2 Christians and I model worship like the first 2 Centuries. Your icon worship along with Mary is much later in history. Also your post apostolic church’s are nothing like the actual apostles. No orthodox Bishop doing miracles . Just normal followers with a chip of superiority which God will take care of His way
@@HOSPlTALLER show me in Bible where Paul wrote about Mary and Icons please. Go pray to Mary to help
Was raised evangelical, wife was also evangelical . . . in our 40s we became Roman Catholic after reading the Early Church Fathers.
Welcome home may our blessed lord bless you abundantly, and continue finding the treasures of the Catholic church. May our beloved mother pray for you. I recommend keith nester books for you!
Didn’t you find it fascinating the level of antisemitism exerted by the church fathers?
@@MyMinistrees4All um, I think that's a terrible accusation on what I've read from the Fathers. If you want to read some terrible antisemitism I'd look at Luther's writings.
@@rfp313which one?
@@xaviercopeland2789 I believe there is a letter from Luther titled,"On the Jews and Their Lies
Pastor Matt, apostolic churches are not bearing the "heavy lift" of faith of their congregants. When one goes to Confession, for example, YOU must be of CONTRITE HEART. The confessor cannot be contrite for you.
After confession, YOU make a vow to AMEND your life.
Based and John 20:23-pilled
Resistant protestants simply don't understand this. Unless there was a real act of contrition, the vow to do better, the sacrament of Confession has no effect.
Committed Catholics/Orthodox will see their sins reduce in one or more ways, frequency, severity, when making a serious committment to holiness via attendance to Mass/Divine Liturgy and Eucharist more than 1 day per week, regular confession, increasing frequency of prayer through the day.
24:19 Seems they are looking for more than faith and want something more tangible. Arguably, they are abandoning faith for ritual.
The discussion in the middle about continuity is fascinating. I kinda feel like Matt sorta misses the force of Redeemed Zoomer's point. I became Catholic at Easter, after spending the first 37 years of my life bouncing between nominally non-denom (though usually baptist) churches and, while I think there's something to the idea that conversion's partly happen because people were bored in a previous tradition they never really understood, that just elides the continuity question. I still attend a lovely reformed non-denom church. And the passionate pastor cites post-reformation thinkers about 20 times as often as pre-reformation figures. And if you exclude Augustine, you could count the citations, in the past 5 years, on 1 hand and still have enough fingers to catch a ball. That's an actual lack of continuity, not an imagined one.
It'd be one thing to say, "we want to focus on the Bible alone" and then really just focus on the Bible alone. But functionally, everywhere I've been, other authorities are mustered in sermons to emphasize a particular theological argument and, if none of those authorities are from the early church, no wonder people think these arguments are not connected to the Christian tradition.
I also think Matt makes an excellent point around the 34 min mark which I'd make a little differently. His point is, basically, "you can be a Catholic and not be that into it and that's ok, for awhile". From the convert's perspective, the point would be, "I like that my perception of my faith life isn't so down to how I happen to be feeling emotionally". If you're not experiencing the spirit working it's easy, within certain forms of Protestantism, to wonder if he is. The rhythms of the calendar and concrete sacraments level some of the highs and lows inherent to faith.
Evangelical turned Catholic here 🙋🏼♀️
Evangelicals are Protestants though...? lol
you went from protestant to protestant.
@@grizzly_8917 hahaha good catch
welcome home!
@@grizzly_8917 both Orthodox and Catholic have valid apostolic succession. Protestants do not. Catholics and Orthodox are closer to one another than either are to Protestants, theologically and practically speaking.
Also both the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople excommunicated each other. That's what started this mess. There was fault on both sides.
All this video did was show me why I should become Catholic or Orthodox. Thanks guys!
(Have not completed the video yet Matt) but for me in my conversion to Catholicism, in reading the early church fathers, and the Holy scripture thru the interpretation of them as well as the Church, my experience as an evangelical didn’t even seem Christian in comparison. And to those martyrs and evangelists who spread the word thru worse persecution than we’ll ever experience; they probably would not consider evangelicals Christians at all. Just some heresy they were in the process of combating. I initially leaned heavily orthodox but after 6 MORE months of research I found a home in the Catholic Church and was confirmed this past Easter. God bless you Matt, you were a friend along the way whether you know it or not and I pray for Gods protection over you and your family. I love you and your mission very much
Well said bro!
welcome home!
@@anastasijahrsak5751 thank you brother!
@@aadschram5877 thank you!!
The modern, materialistic world has wounded many. The Orthodox Church teaches that salvation is healing and this is what I have experience since my conversion from atheism. I have healed and transformed so much since diving into the Church that my sister barely recognizes me. Orthodoxy, to me, has offered me the deep meaning that my life was lacking and through the church I have begun to know the Living God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob Who has been working to return Adam to paradise since the fall. By becoming a part of His life, I have already begun to experience the Resurrection.
To put it simply, I converted to Orthodoxy because Christ is there and it is to Him that the Holy Spirit led me.
I was baptised Anglican as a baby (I'm English), fell away from the church, and have just been received into the Catholic Church. For me, it's as Matt said. The utility of confession helps keep me on the straight and narrow very well! I also draw a link between confirmation and the laws about sick people going to see the priest to be 'deemed clean' in the Torah. (apologies if this is a tired justification. I came to it independently). Also. Comment for the algo!
welcome home!
@@anastasijahrsak5751 Thank you. I can't tell you how good it feels!
did you mean confession? I do think confirmation is critical also but I think of confession as more a utltility sacrament
@@MrPeach1 Yes. Meant confession. Will edit now. Thanks for pointing out.
Praise God!
Former Protestant, here. Al-Mashie qam! Christos anesti!
Αληθως Ανεστη Ο Κυριος.
Alithos Anesti!
Alithos anesti!
Alithos Anesti! ☦️
Haqqan qam!
I can only speak for myself, but as a former Baptist/Nondenom, it was a million small data points converging. I had a profound experience with the Eucharist, had real success against lifelong sin struggles with the Rosary, read a few of the early Church Fathers and became convinced of Apostolic Succession, etc.
One big thing, though, was coming to the conclusion (which I think is objectively true) that liberalism was a consequence of the Protestant Reformation. Locke proposed tolerance as a solution to the widespread religious wars resulting from a newly fractured Christendom. The Reformation was followed by a diminishing of the institutional Church's influence on public life, separation of Church and state, political revolutions and the downfall of Christian monarchies, and the gradual secularization of the West. And we see the roots of liberalism even in how we discuss theology: If there's no divine interpreter of Scripture, we can never have absolute certainty about any doctrine. Only your interpretation and my interpretation; Your truth and my truth. Even the very first Reformers disagreed on the Real Presence in the Eucharist, iconoclasm, the necessity of baptism, predestination and so on. The core argument of the Reformation was that Scripture is perspicuous, and yet there was never a point where the Reformers agreed on what the Bible says about sacramentology or soteriology. Protestantism just became completely untenable for me.
As it stands, I can definitely understand why a person would go Orthodox, though I personally went Catholic. But I simply could not find any more reasons to protest the Catholic Church.
I've been watching your videos through it all. Thank you for your sincere Christian charity, Matt.
So true!
As someone who grew up nondenom/Baptist, I’m right there with you. Haven’t converted and I do disagree on certain important issues like the veneration of saints but all these things are reasons I really find Protestantism difficult to hold against the more ancient traditions
@ jacob sousa - Veneration of saints is definitely a tricky one.
For me, one breakthrough was this argument: Veneration of saints violates the 'Soli Deo Gloria' (Glory to God alone) claim of Protestantism. However, "Glory to God alone" isn't the standard we see in the NT - It's "Glory to God in the highest" (Luke 2:14, Matt 21:9). Paul tells us those in Christ are glorified with Him (Romans 8:17, 2 Thess 1:12). Jesus even tells his disciples they'll be enthoned in heaven, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. God shares His glory with His saints, and is glorified in us, and so Soli Deo Gloria isn't Biblical. In venerating the saints, we further glorify God, because we recognize that anything venerable in them came from God.
Bishop Barron put it this way: Would an artist be offended at you admiring his work? Or would he instead be honored in your honoring his masterpiece, knowing that praise for his work is ultimately praise for him?
The Catholic/Orthodox standard is 'glory to God in the highest'. The saints are glorified with Christ, but God alone receives the highest form of worship: Sacrifice.
@@bradyhayes7911 Dang that's good. You're right, the Bible teaches He alone is good, He alone is worthy, but the standard is always that God recieves the highest worship, not that we cannot enjoy the glory of His creation.
Can I ask your thoughts on the Immaculate Conception cause you seem to have this thought out a bit?
When I was coming back to Christ from several years of following the New Atheists, I took a fair look at most denominations (thanks largely to your videos Matt!), and what I found was that the only churches/denominations that were holding the line against modernism and seemed best able and willing to resist the influence of the modern "progressive" world all I found were Catholicism and Orthodoxy. After looking into it I was more convinced by the Catholic claims for Papal supremacy than the Orthodox arguments against it. That was enough for me to want to become Catholic. I don't know if Redeemed Zoomer cares as much about Apostolic Succession as some do, but I think he does this discussion a disservice by downplaying the influence and importance of it. I know that lots of young people LARP as Catholic and Orthodox online, but I also wouldn't overestimate that population in comparison to genuine converts to Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
I think this conversation would have been more authentic with an actual convert to Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
I really think Matt's characterisation of Catholicism about the 35 minute mark is way off. Life as a proper Catholic is way more difficult than protestant life, I have lived both ways. If you sin, you have to go and confess to that sin out loud in front of someone. If you get divorced, you must live celibately or forego the sacraments. Sunday Mass is an obligation, along with the feast days. I could go on and on.
Raised in a Southern Baptist church...quit going around 1990, entered the Roman Catholic Church on Easter 2004. About 15 years of journey and discernment in making that move. I split time now between a Roman Catholic Parish (Novus Ordo Mass) and a Ruthenian (Byzantine) Catholic Parish (Divine Liturgy). The rich, fullness of Catholicism between the Latin and 23 Autocephalous Churches in communion with the successor of Peter was really hard to pass up!
I think you guys scratched the surface on a big reason that wasnt fleshed out. I'm an evangelical protestant. In protestant circles, having the right theology and beliefs is of great importance. Growing up and attending various protestant denominations and groups I have become so confused because there are so many differing views in the faith. Then theres so much fighting and wildly different beliefs that it gets so confusing for a normie like me. What I love about Catholics/Orthodox is that I dont need the trendy, intellectual pastor who has figured out the bible. The Catholic and Orthodox churches have rich tradition and a catechism. Ive reached a point in my life where I want to check my brain at the door while participate in a communal service with fellow believers with a church body that spreads to all the nations.
You are correct. The odds of finding an individual pastor or even a group of people that has more knowledge about the Bible and Jesus's teachings than the Catholic Church or Orthodox Church is nil.
I wonder why anyone thinks, needing a book thicker than the Bible (the catholic catechism) is less confusing than simply reading the Bible.
@@MrSeedi76 I wish understanding and knowing the BIble was as simple as reading it. But it is not.
@@MrSeedi76 The bible is a library of books, written in different style, by different authors, in different languages, and with various source versions that are not identical. The NT was written by first-century jews and hence much of what is written doesn't make sense to us today in meaning or context, and it heavily references the OT. The NT has many elements that are foreshadowed in the OT. It is very complex. The Catechism is a coherent summary of this library that pulls it all together.
Baptist to Cathoilc. Tiber swim team 2007
Love that. Tiber swim team 2023.
Interesting topic. I was an Evangelical Protestant until I left the faith and spent a couple of decades as a non-believer. I returned to the faith and joined the Catholic Church - along with my wife and kids - after a brief flirtation with Anglicanism. The main motivation for me to become Catholic was to get back to the original Christian church that Christ founded. I also was tired of the constant splitting off of various Protestant denominations as well as the ever Leftward drift, emotionalism and YEC. We are now happy active Catholics with our kids in the church's school.
🎉🎉🎉
People claiming that protestants are splitting off completely ignore the constant splitting of the Roman church itself. You need to become blind to church history to think that the Roman catholic church has anything to do with what Jesus founded. If they did, they wouldn't constantly make up new stuff that contradicts what Jesus said.
Catholic means universal. The Church that Jesus and the Disciples founded is still with us today. And it is certainly not some splinter group led by some "reformer" 1,500 years later.
Matt - Thank you for putting this together and being vulnerable.
Wow! I honestly don't know where to begin. I guess with my Protestant street-creds: I had a real conversion experience at the age of 10 in the church that Alistair Begg eventually became pastor of in NE Ohio (yes, I predated Alistair there. In fact, as a full member, I actually voted on his candidacy). I grew up in that church, went to the largest Christian high school in NE Ohio. It was a long commute, and I used to listen to John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, Joni Tada, and James Dobson on the way to and from school. I was THAT kid. Then I went to a secular college, was part of the Inter-Varsity group from day 1, went to church every sunday in college (again - THAT guy). Was President of the IV group my senior year. Met my wife through the IV group. Became an officer in the Marine Corps. Church or chapel every Sunday. Remained an "Alistair Begg - type evangelical Baptist until 2005 when I embraced Reformed Presbyterianism. We ended up in a PCA Church that leaned as far towar CREC (Doug Wilson) as possible and still be in the PCA. My son attended New St. Andrews College (Doug Wilson's school) in Moscow, ID. I've traveled quite a bit and I'm a linguist. I've visited both Geneva (Calvin) and Zurich (Zwingli). I eagerly visited their churches and the "Museum of the Reformation" that is adjacent to Calvin's church. I've read Calvin, Zwingli, and Luther in the original French, German, and Latin. I was a hard-core 5-point, 5-sola Calvinist for years and never thought I could possibly move from that position.
In 2023 I was confirmed in the Catholic Church at the age of 55.
My story is very long - the conversion took almost three full years. The short version is that I was challenged to see if I could find how the ancient Church - in the first two centuries of Christianity - practiced their faith and what they believed. When I did the research, my very uncomfortable conclusion was that the Christianity I had been practicing since I was a young child bore almost no resemblance to that which is documented in the Didache, the Epistles of Ignatius of Antioch, the First Epistle of Clement, Justin Martyr's First Apology, Irenaeus of Lyon's "Against Heresies," etc. Most unsettling were the very strong arguments against "Sola Scriptura" and "Sola Fide." I'll give credit where it is due - it was Orthodox literature that really slammed the door on those two pillars of my Calvinist beliefs.
From my perspective, your conversation hit the target a few times, but more often missed the mark. Frankly, Zoomer's contempt for Catholicism and Orthodoxy seemed very evident. There are a lot of issued I would like to contest, but I'll not let this drag on much longer.
I'm going to make a lot of people uncomfortable with the following. My perspective is that evangelicals moving into Catholicism and Orthodoxy do so because they want to practice true, documented, historical Christianity that has solid, divinely-appointed authority behind it. Your conversation in regard "institutions" danced around the authority issue. Ivy League Universities are "institutions" but "institutionality" does not equate to "divine authority." From this perspective, no Protestant "institution" functions with unquestionable, divinely-appointed authority, but rather, on mere consensus.
Continuing the discomfort - my opinion about movement from Catholicism to Evangelicalism: a significant issue is that being a faithful Catholic, frankly, is hard. It requires self-discipline and self-denial in a culture that says, "Do what feels good to you." I suggest that many young Catholics who become evangelicals say they are doing so for reasons of biblical authenticity, and maybe even convince themselves of that point, but their reasons are much more personal, and many of those are "below the belt" reasons. The Catholic sexual ethic, even within a valid Catholic marriage, is very contained, while in the Protestant world, as long as you're married, anything goes as long as it's consensual. In the Protestant world, contraception and sterilization are completely acceptable - not even an issue of much conversation. In the Catholic world they are unquestionably and completely forbidden. In most Protestant churches, your marriage is considered valid even if you were married by "Elvis" at 3:30 AM in Las Vegas while you were drunk. Not so in Catholicism. And divorce and remarriage? There is no consistent ethic on divorce and remarriage in the Protestant world - at all. Even if your church has a very narrow view of what constitutes a legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage and tries to put you under discipline for an invalid divorce, you can always find another church down the road who will accept you and your remarriage without question. Holding to the uncompromising Catholic sexual and marriage ethic is really hard, and nominal Catholics can find the "softer, more tolerant" positions of most Protestant expressions of Christianity much more palatable. Plus, missing church on Sunday is no big deal in the Protestant world. No confession needed.
My suspicion is that the percentage of Catholics who become Protestant and then eventually become "exvangelicals" or "deconvert" will be much higher than the number of Protestants who become Catholic (or Orthodox) and then "deconvert." In fact, I think those numbers will not even be close to each other.
Thank you for making it this far in a much longer note than I expected.
@wjtruax Thank you for sharing your faith journey home! I wonder if you might create a printed flyer and web page that dispels myths about Catholicism and provides the Biblical evidence of its authority as the Church that Jesus Christ established? I really think that stories like yours can help address the questions/issues that non-Catholics have. God bless you!
@@jasonrhtx thank you for your very kind note. I’m afraid the greatest obstacles to objectivity for Protestants looking at the claims of Catholicism are not logical and biblical, but emotional. When I was convinced that “Sola Scriptura” is NOT biblical, the bottom fell out of my world. I was in existential terror for about three days. The Lord graciously brought me out of it, but my Christianity was so dependent upon that doctrine that, when it fell apart, I felt my entire foundation crumble.
Most Protestants, accurately, subconsciously consider the “cost” of accepting Catholic doctrines as impossible to pay, and will emotionally fight every sound logical, historical, and biblical defense of Catholic faith and practice because accepting any of it might turn their lives completely upside down. Their willing to die for Christ, but their not willing to lay down their emotional obstacles to consider the claims of his one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church.
@@wjtruax Yes, I've seen the knee-jerk reactions to the label "Catholic". The anti-Catholic hostility is taught from a very young age and consistently reinforced. The funny thing is that anti-Catholics are accusing Catholics of things that the Catholic Church does not teach, simply repeating oft-told lies about the Church for centuries, without looking at the Church's official and very public teaching, the Catechism--I often point to the free Ascension app, with its fully hyperlinked Bible and Catechism.
Your experience coming into the Church is invaluable and something to share with others that may have doubts/hesitations. I suppose your questions are similar to their questions, and the answers that convinced you may similarly convince them, including their emotional obstacles--we often make mountains of molehills.
Regarding "sola scriptura", this 16th Century invention ignores how the Old Testament and New Testament books were transmitted. The Word was always spoken before written, carried forward by Oral Tradition which carefully transmitted across generations in retelling and teaching, then written as the inspired words of God (the infinite) by man (finite) in books of the Bible. "Sola scriptura" is not anywhere in the Bible, as you highlighted, and having no Biblical proof, contradicts Protestant/non-denominational claims to authority from the Bible. Luther claimed "sola scriptura", as did Calvin and Zwingli, but their "Bible-based/sola scriptura" interpretations contradicted each other (on knowing one's salvation, on Baptism, on the Eucharist,...), and indeed, they viciously condemned each other, without a way of appealing to a decisive authority.
I've known converts to Catholicism, and many feel fulfilled as never before, very involved in groups and finally on the solid Rock of the Church. It's true that some lost a few friends, but their true friends stayed in their lives. By the way, the Coming Home Network has lots of personal stories relating their conversion to Catholicism.
God bless you!
Raised Presbyterian. Been orthodox for 23 years now. The depth of the faith continues to unfold as I move through life.
It’s not just wanting tradition and beautiful church aesthetics. It’s far, far deeper than that. However, I am glad to see this topic being discussed. A convert myself, my RCIA class was full of former evangelicals who yearned to be in the church Christ established, and we saw the glaring issues in the Protestant world. I’m curious as to why an evangelical Protestant convert to Orthodoxy or Catholicism wasn’t brought on. Seems like if you want to know why people are converting… talk to a convert. Also, Redeemed Zoomer comes off as very bitter and arrogant and was difficult to listen to.
I read the Bible multiple times and know it well. It lead me to orthodoxy. It’s not superficial aesthetics. It’s knowing that the early church worshiped like the Old Testament, liturgically. I’m Scottish buddy but you’re going to say Scotlands has true theology over 1500 years of history. Was St Columba Apostle of Scotland a presbyteryn? No of course not. Zoomer Totally misrepresented us.
Because evangelical pastors are giving the thumbs up 👍🏼 on sin. My wife unbiblically divorced me and married another man and the pastor gave it a thumbs up on Facebook. Marriage permanency is an orthodox doctrine. I’m sickened by the perverse and open adulterous marriage yet evangelicals don’t seem to even think it’s wrong. According to gods word and traditional church doctrine these two “will not inherit the kingdom of heaven”. Im hurt by my own church’s lack of understanding on the topic and lack of a desire to even understand it.
Fancy churches aren't "the Tradition" we're talking about. Tradition is much much deeper and has to do with the Eucharist, which I feel no one in this conversation wants to touch. What is the Lord's Table? What does it mean for our lives? The Tradition preserves this.
I am one such former Evangelical Protestant. For me, I discovered that there was such a thing as a post NT early church that lasted until the 1500s. My Evangelical church just didn't want to hear my questions and weren't interested in providing answers. Catholicism won me by forfeit.
I have been Catholic for a number of year but somethimes I wonder if I had met a knowledgeable high church Lutheran or Anglican pastor who could have given me the best case for Protestantism being in continuity with the church of the First Millenium as to whether I would have been able to remain within Protestantism.
In short, reconcile that there was a church for 1500 years pre-Reformation and that God was in charge even them. Also the role of creeds and tradition-- confessional Protestants (I have now learned) give a lot of authority to these things even of scripture alone is technically infallible.
Third, liturgical worship. You cannot find mega church style worship in the early church. It doesn't exist.
The mega church stuff is a particular American thing. You won't find it in mainstream Protestantism. Over here, in Germany, the whole evangelical/Baptist/etc stuff is very fringe.
@MrSeedi76 I didn't know there were still Christians in Germany
@@albertito77Yes a lot of Catholics in Germany
Very insightful explanation of the effects of the algorithm on the people it's interacting with, Matt. I've had this intuition for a while, but you put it into words. The best I got to was something along the lines of "It's easier to market to vice than to virtue", which I think correctly captures something about the spirit behind the algorithm.
I converted last year. I had no Catholics in my life, wasnt watching any catholic content. Heavily calvinist material but i was a traditional Methodist. I came to study Catholicism after a dream…. I started with the catechism and scripture. Then i watched debates on youtube but by then i had been studying offline for 6 months. I didnt want any influencers influencing a decision that important.
I was a Calvinist (raised Assembly of God, however) went to a Protestant Bible College (emphasis in Christian Apologetics). I started my journey by trying to "save" Catholics from their "wrong" theology. I decided in order to do that, I would need to know what they actually believed. I started with the Catechism and the Early Church Fathers. What I found there was Truth and the fullness of the faith. I was confirmed this past Easter.
My journey was a long one that I largely resisted. I didn't want to become Catholic. I abhorred the idea. I went to literally every other church in my hometown before I visited the Catholic Church. It was hard and I have given up so much (many friends and family have disavowed me because I converted). And yet? It was the best decision I have ever made and I have never felt closer to God, more in love with Jesus, and more passionate about the Gospel. I only wish I would have converted sooner.
Also, side note, I don't know how Catholics who leave the faith never "got the Bible" if they were regularly attending Mass. The entire thing is scripture! I find more often than not that it is the weakest Catholics that convert to Protestantism.
Amen, sister!
Your comment choked me up. Welcome home.
I converted to Catholicism in 2014. My reasons were very unusual. The lives of canonized saints made me step back and say, "these are the most extraordinary people I've ever read about". However, I was the doubting Thomas. The miracles won me over. Unlike most converts, my conversion had little to do with history.
People yearn for tradition, continuity, apostolic legitimacy and most importantly, Christ.
Christ only cares if you do His will . If you can find those kissing icons, ok .
@@dallasbrat81Christ cares if you follow the Church he established on the foundation of His apostles and their successors.
I'm one of those "young men", age 29, and I was raised Baptist and still hold many Baptist beliefs, but I hunger for a richer and deeper high church form of worship. I'm drawn to Church history and many Orthodox ideas and theology, yet I'm apprehensive about joining the Ortho Church. I feel like a mix of both, and frankly it feels liberating yet lonely.
Anyways, great video as always! Your channel is such a blessing!
Matt, your understanding/concept of sacramental confession is very skewed & off track. You need to study that sacrament of confession in depth, especially from the Orthodox church practice & view. You are missing the components of the passions & theosis of the person. And its not about guilt & rituals. Its about growth & transformation of a person into christ likeness.
I used to be evangelical and converted to Catholicism.
Matt’s channel helped me on my journey 4-5 years ago.
I think Redeemed zoomer is just caricaturing a lot of the banter involved in online theological debates. I’ve met many sincere people in their conversions. I would say most are sincere. Hes probably not the best person to represent this sphere.
I have yet to meet a Catholic steep in church history and classical theology convert to evangelicalism.
"They naively believe that... church authority structure solves church fights and church discipline"
I like Matt, but this makes me want to not take him seriously.
As an evangelical Millennial investigating Orthodoxy, I think many of us have enormous resources at our disposal via the internet to read and research Protestant dogmas for ourselves - and we’re finding that they simply don’t hold water (aka Sola Scriptura). For years I thought evangelicalism was the problem…. I’m currently convinced that all the flaws in evangelicalism are due to the flawed foundations that Protestantism is built on: flawed views of authority, ecclesiology, interpretation of Scripture, and a complete blindness to the absolute disaster of individualism and disunity that characterizes Protestantism.
Why EO and not RC?
@arlenefisher1164 the Bible is not flawed at all. I desire a personal relationship with God, not a flawed denomination.... RC, EO, or Protestant. Denominations cannot save me, Jesus does.
Before you jump ship, please listen to some of the pro-Sola Scriptura explanations/arguments from Gavin Ortlund and Jordan B Cooper. I was sucked into the EO polemics re: sola scriptura being self refuting, a-historical, etc when I converted, but only recently have come to realize it’s actually a very reasonable position that is too often caricatured by the EO and RCC. I wish I had encountered some of this material before I became Orthodox myself.
@@OMNIBUBB as Orthodox you should be talking to your Priest about these concerns. Father Trenham, Father Deacon Ananias, Kabane, and Jay Dyer should be in your play list. They address the Scripture alone doctrine quite often
Good conversation! Intelligent, deep but not over intellectual, very easy to listen to. And not judgemental with a light - hearted look at yourselfes! Well done Protestants!
I’m Episcopal. Been visiting and considering the Catholic Church. It’s mostly because the folks at the Episcopal church don’t really believe. One afternoon, during a group discussion, I discovered that no one else at the table (including the Priest) believed that Mary was a virgin. The Priest said to me something like: you don’t really believe that do you? Us modern people know how conception works.
And last week I got backhanded comments because I believe that Jesus is present in the Eucharist. I tried to defend myself quoting the Bible and Thomas Aquinas. And was told by the Priest until I went to seminary, I had no right to an opinion. Receiving the Eucharist every week changed my life radically and I believe in the power of God.
I work every day with unbelievers. Do I really want to go to church with Christians who are essentially unbelievers too? The answer is ‘no’. So, I have been investigating options.
That sounds wretched, hope you find your way to the apostolic church safely. I'm Orthodox myself, but faithful catholics are far better than what you've described at your episcopal "parish" :(
The episcopal church brings people together by a communal practice, not obligatory belief. Everyone is entitled to believe what they think is true, but it is the BCP and other practices that create the community. Very different than the RC church where specific beliefs are required. This fact is a big reason why Anglicanism was started in the first place and has been successful, it provided a home for people that didn’t fully agree with one particular theology
I am innocently asking where and why Catholics are saying "I didn't get the Bible" when I was Catholic? I don't understand this at all as I have NEVER heard this from a Catholic myself and given every Mass every day has readings from the Old Testament or the letters of Paul/Peter/James/Acts/John/Jude AND a Gospel reading then a homily on the readings. Then the rest of the liturgy is literally quoting the Gospels. I truly don't understand???
Perhaps it’d be most beneficial to ask those who are converting or assisting to those converting to Catholicism or Orthodoxy in order to understand why people are going in that direction, rather than kicking tires and spitballing why people are leaving evangelical Christianity.
As someone who converted to Catholicism from Protestantism, I was looking for a framework to follow Jesus through the sacraments, rather than being “in” a denomination that can wildly vary based on the pastor.
I disagree wholeheartedly with RedeemedZoomer about the comparison with denomination hopping being like changing gender identity and pronouns for youth (not to mention how offensive that comparison is to both sides of the comparison), but I found that my beliefs were already Catholic the whole time, and joining the RCC made sense to me. Catholicism and Orthodoxy have beliefs you have to have to truly identify as them, and having attended a Mass or Divine Liturgy or not does not mean you cannot have a 90%+ overlap with either.
I'm not sure why Redeemed Zoomer get's so much publicity. He is arrogant, brash and inconsiderate. He clearly has zeal for God but he needs a healthy dose of humility, grace and brotherly love before he promotes himself as a public authority representing Christianity.
He's doing a great job helping Protestants become Orthodox or Catholic. Just like James White.
I think it is also true that the Reformation would never have kicked off unless the printing press had been invented. Technology plays a major role in cultural (and religious) changes. Kind regards from an IT-engineer, 50 yrs, convert to RC.
That is great! Yeah, I think nowadays the internet does its work.
welcome home!
Interesting comment on technology
Maybe people should remember why there even was a reformation. I'm pretty sure no catholic believes the things that were taught by the Roman church back in the days of the reformation.
As comedian Jan Fulwiler says “ In no haunted house movie will you hear ‘quick, find me a non-denominational worship leader’ or ‘only a Unitarian can save us now’”.
Hahaha! Love that line.