Jim Wallis Wants to Debate Charlie Kirk | The New Evangelicals
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Jim Wallis is author of several books that discuss the rise of white Christian nationalism and its threat to democracy. He calls for a remnant church that stands against Christian nationalism and works towards justice and equality.
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The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. On this channel, you'll see videos from our founder Tim Whitaker and our incredible guests as they react and respond biblically to topics such as Christian Nationalism, church hurt, terrible Christian movies, bad conservative Christian takes, and MUCH more!
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#thenewevangelicals #christiannationalism #charliekirk
Oh my - what a treat to wake up to this sort of interview!!! Jim Wallis, you are a personal hero that I didn't learn about until my late 30's. Thank you for blessing the TNE community with your time and wisdom.
Oh how this affirmed my soul! Although I know that we aren’t the crazy ones, the daily gaslighting and false narratives surrounding our faith can be so taxing to my inner being. Thank you for shining his light here! For me personally, my heart needs the reaffirmation from time to time.
What a great message! Mr. Wallis seems very realistic but hopeful and that's refreshing!
I'm reading Mr. Wallis' book right now. I'm totally hooked. I'm an atheist and wholey love by the red letter teachings of Jesus. I am spreading the word and support this movement.
This is a great conversation. I think if people took time to read Sojo Magazine and listen to other discussions with Jim Wallis, there would be much greater understanding in this comment section.
A parable I wrote:
An illegal immigrant was beaten up and left for dead along the road.
The first person to drive by was a prosperity pastor. He stopped to take a look at the man but knew he wouldn't get any money from him, so he kept on driving.
The second person to come on the scene was a Christian Nationalist. He stopped to look at the all-but-dead body and said, "serves you right for not coming into the country legally" and sped away.
The third person to drive by was a man who lives and loves like Jesus. He stopped his car and walked over to the man. He told the man he was going to put him in his car and take him to the nearest hospital. The man weakly nodded. When they got to the hospital, the man took the immigrant to the emergency room to register him. He told the staff to bill him for any medical costs.
Jesus asks us: Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who was beaten?
Our answer is "the one who showed mercy to him."
Then Jesus said, "Go and do likewise."
I really hope Jim and Charlie talk to each other! I think Jim is speaking of a version of Charlie Kirk that doesn’t exist. And Charlie could learn some things from Jim.
That would require Charlie to pull his head out of his “Christian” ass and actually listen to what Jim has to say, which, considering the stuff that I’ve seen, wouldn’t happen. Maybe he would if Jim was a teen or college student😂
What an awesome discussion! Thanks so much!
What a beautiful human being.
Great conversation.
I've been listening to Wallis for quite awhile now. He is one white man that is not intimidated being in the company of black folk.
agree, Christ will prevail truth will prevail and His love does not fail, and Christ has blinded the eyes of those who are looking for a political answer for worldly power, and Trump
I have seen him speak two different times. He can speak and write very well.
Can someone give me a cogent answer on what exactly is white Christian nationalism? I have heard the term thrown about but am not sure what it precisely means or how I would recognize it if I experienced it. Thanks
Jim Wallis is a man that walks the talk. Too many of us, like me, need to count the cost and begin to walk the walk.
Hey Patrick, In what ways does Jim Wallis walk the talk?
@davefnewell well, I think his net worth is almost nothing. So, if this is correct, he is not storing his treasure on earth.
One more question for Dr. Wallis, as someone who stood with the anti-war movement of the Vietnam era, how do you see Trump as a greater threat of militarism than the current administration? We now have full terms to look back on over the last 7 years, longer if we look back over Biden’s vice presidency, and it seems clear to me that the 46th presidency has been far more captured by the military industrial complex than the 45th. One has been far more willing to expend US military power across the world than the other. One is clearly more comfortable with the language of regime change than the other.
Am I wrong? How do you rectify this issue Dr. Wallis?
That's an important but very complex issue. The main thing to say for now is that the answer is NOT Trump... for many reasons and on many levels.
Trump raised the defense budget an extraordinary amount during his time as president. He bragged about rebuilding our weapons and tactical capacity and installed career military business insiders into key Pentagon positions. Biden at least pulled the U.S. out of Afghanistan and while giving weapons to Ukraine does help the military industrial complex, it is also a strategic measure to protect the West and prevent all out war in Europe.
@@howardp8244 I'm not the sharpest tool, so can you please give me one or so of your best reasons? I have a very hard time understanding this one, and have yet to hear a great argument for your position. Thanks!
@@howardp8244 So...nothing. Not one example?
I am asking this question in genuine curiosity, and have time and time again been disappointed by the lack of real dialogue on this particular issues.
Knowing that most people are not easily persuaded, I'll not spend valuable time restating what is out there in abundance, including many reasons to reject Trump from many, not just a few, of his former advisors and even cabinet level administration, from historians of authoritarian regimes, etc., etc. If you're honestly seeking good analysis, you'll easily find it.
If you want to go another route, I'd HIGHLY recommend you listen to, read (via his Truth Social posts) much MORE of Trump, not less. Follow his way of reacting to his SEVERAL civil and criminal court cases, reading at least summaries of the charges, etc. In other words, don't listen to me or any pundits you may not be inclined to trust, NOR to those you ARE inclined to either. Use primary sources... Trump himself, and then those closest to him who he is likely to be tapping in a potential second term.
I realized he was bad when after reading Bonhoeffer by Mataxas, he made it sound like someone who was clearly bad was the only hope this nation had.
Edit:
I read it in 2016 and could see the parallels. Then I heard he had used his own book to push for Trump. Ironic.
Ok. Now I'm following.
It may not mean much, but I've been arguing with Christian Nationalists about my value as a human being since long before they were called that and I've learned some things. If you're arguing in accepted modern theology you will lose every time, the current streams of accepted theological thought have been grown specifically to account for and counter any arguments against Nationalism that you could reasonably make from scripture. They'll force you to "agree to disagree." I only started gaining ground when I focused on pressing what I learned from scholars like Dan McClellan and Kipp Davis, and Dan McClellan is still a professing believer so you don't have to give up god to do it either. Good luck man.
I know that a lot of church folks have started slandering Dan the same way they slandered Bart Ehrman back in the day, but he holds these degrees,
BA, Brigham Young University (ancient Near Eastern studies)
MSt, University of Oxford (Jewish studies)
MA, Trinity Western University (biblical studies)
PhD, University of Exeter (theology and religion)
and is backed up by several other scholars with current and relevant degrees from accredited colleges. He's not just another apologist.
@@darkcircles06 I used to read some of Dan's posts and articles, and found him a good scholar, although I'm not LDS and don't share that aspect of his theological structures. But I've also learned that, like Protestants, Catholic and Orthodox scholars, LDS scholars are not all on board with all of LDS beliefs by any means. There are a lot of non-academic factors that go into why one is in whatever denomination or branch of Christianity they are in.
@@howardp8244 I'm not LDS either, and his religion isn't why I trust him. The fact that Dan's knowledge is backed up by several other scholars of many different backgrounds and faith/lack of faith all saying the same things he does suggests to me that his religious background is irrelevant to what he teaches about the data based history. I'm not suggesting fighting theology with theology in my comment, I'm referring to fighting bad theology with history.
@@darkcircles06Sounds good! I really appreciate the careful history approach and agree it can be done by people of faith, knowing NO ONE is truly without bias anyway. I've also noted that Ehrman and many other careful scholars who do well at minimizing bias are often unfairly attacked by literalist type Christians. That's whether they are people "of faith" or not.
@@howardp8244 agreed! That's sadly very true about Dr. Ehrman and others like him. I remember growing up during that period of time where his name was smeared in a lot of churches and I've started seeing signals that it's happening to Dan now all over again, it's really upsetting to watch. I think the most upsetting part is that the information that Dan and Bart get ripped for the most isn't even their own original findings, it's all the older info researchers have known for almost a century and has been taught at seminaries for at least the last decade.
On the note of “blessed are the peacemakers”, I have dialogued with Jemar Tisby who told me directly that he sees the modern BLM movement is an iteration of the black power movement in contrast to a movement in the lineage of MLK. Would you consider that a political movement of “peacemaking” or one that is peace destroying and therefore needs to be “defeated”?
But white Jesus driving in his giant SUV or pickup while blasting Skillet on the way to vote for Trump is so litty. 😅
To many nationalist arguing turns into mass debation. Definitely not going to watch.
I find there to be such a dissonance when talking about how the other side of the political isle is driven by fear, to then base your entire message on “losing democracy, fascism, and authoritarianism” as a driving motivator. Aren’t you just engaging in the same style of emotive and reactionary politicking?
No, because the fear of the left is coming from actions that the right wing is currently taking, in real time, right now. They have struck down Roe v Wade and horror stories are coming out of Texas and other red states as a result. They're lowering the working age restrictions in Florida and a couple other red states and bringing back child labor. Red states are striking down school lunch programs, we have congresspeople openly discussing repealing marriage protections for LGBTQ couples, just to name a few things off the top of my head.
Acknowledging real things that are actively happening which are frightening is a huge difference from being afraid that God will sink America into the sea because two male neighbors got married.
Tim has spoken about criticisms of Biden as well. The issue is not the policies, or the parties but the idea that a sub group of Christians, (aligned with various culturally christian extreme white supremacist groups), believe that they should take over power and force people to do life their way. Have you heard some of the rhetoric? Joel Weddon saying that it is ok they would not force conversions, but people would have to act /pretend as if they are Christian. That is not care for souls; that is idolisation of power and control.
On this side of the pond we know the history of Christian theocracy - The catholics burned the protestants; then power changed hands and the protestants burned the catholics. They both persecuted the Jews, and suppressed the dissenters that came to the 'New World' to be free from such theocractic abuses.
My test for whether something is just and fair is to ask how I would feel if the boot is on the other foot. How would those enticed by Christian Nationalism/ 7 Mountain Mandate etc feel if it was say the catholics trying to get them to follow those church traditions, go to mass, fish on fridays, obey the papal rule etc. Or even the Episcopalicans ruling what liturgy services should follow. Heck most of them couldn't even cope with following temporary basic community safety rules.
Too many parts of the Republican Party have pinned their colours to these ideas. Many other republicans are repulsed by it and yearn to reclaim their party back to regular politics.
I'm not going to be a Christian, I'm gong to be a follower of Jesus...false dichotomy.
How? The apostles were not Christians and they followed Jesus.
That's what a Christian is...actually at first Christian was not a positive term..Acts 16...at first they were called "Followers of The Way.."
Here’s an idea, share your data that suggests democracy is in danger🤷🏽. You say much but provide little to no evidence
The evidence is readily apparent to anyone listening to the words coming out of Trump and other MAGA cultists mouths. But if you want to connect that with data, I suggest you look at the work of Robert P. Jones at PRRI.
Jan 6 literally happened...and there's neonazis proudly marching around in nashville. There's your data
data points - denying the election result; storming Congress
general trend - why is it harder to vote in poorer areas ?
@@helenr4300 huh? Show me a dying democracy. These are isolated incidents. Stupid incidents but isolated
@@helenr4300 a relatively small number of morons denying election results in no way is endangering our democracy
If using gospel language would “trigger” your listeners, your platform and your listeners aren’t gospel centered.
And…?
@@camelbak13 this is presented as a Christian platform. If the gospel offends the platform or its listeners, I’d hardly call it Christian. It’s a simple statement
Insider language doesn't communicate to those who are not deep inside. One person's 'gospel language' is someone else's 'religious jargon'. And for some faithful christians that jargon has been used to persecute them, so yes it can be a trigger.
Being gospel centred is not our language, it is our actions, our faith visible. It is letting the teaching of Jesus impact our lives and how we live with others. 'If I speak with the tongues of angels but have not love then I am nothing but clanging cymbals...'
@@helenr4300 the gospel must be spoken, it’s the only way to communicate it🤦🏻♂️. Yes, it must be lived also. As I said, if gospel language offends you, you need to meet Jesus.