Odd. The judge noted that Elisa had to climb a ten foot ladder on the side of a water tank, yet the employee who discovered her had to bring his own ladder as there were no ladders affixed to the sides of the tanks. Hmmm.
I agree and that is why I thought it was fishy. It was also mentioned that the Maintenance guy checks the Water tank and the Roof weekly, if this is true then why did it take 3 weeks to discover the body? From the Police Perspective, they might have missed it but the maintenance guy should have noticed that the latch is open
@@chrisp7110 I'm not so sure about that. The maintenance man would be checking the pressure valves at the roof level that seem to be nestled in the middle of the four tanks. He would have no need to actually climb those tanks unless he saw some kind of errant reading on those gauges.
@Royce Wallace There was a staircase that led upto the roof above the water tanks, it was possible to jump onto the top of the water tanks without needing a ladder. Although it would still be very risky to do such a jump, as the drop from the roof to the tanks would still be around a 9 foot drop.
I'm still not buying it. I know that area too well & what goes on in/around it. No one "accidentally" climbs onto the roof of a hotel, then up a water tower ladder, then removes the tank lid & sashays into its dark, wet insides, on or off meds. It would take at least a bit of stealth & forethought. At the very least, I'd consider it suicide on her part & definitely negligence on the hotel's regarding its safety policies, roof access, & unlocked water supply. The Cecil has always been shady, like the majority of it's 1920's-era competitors Downtown; they don't care what goes on inside the rooms so long as they get paid & you keep it behind closed doors. But Elisa did not. She was roaming the halls & stairwells & creeping around so called 'off limits" areas in ways that should have sparked someone's attention, be it staff or a resident or some random street fiend, looking for a quick buck. I find it hard to believe that she ended up in that tank accidentally & unseen. Either she killed herself or someone lent her a hand, and I don't mean no otherworldly one, either. But, no matter now. Money talks. Billionaire investors grease palms. Law enforcement stays mum. Medical examiners write it off. And the judge shuts it down. Just another questionable death Downtown. My condolences to her friends and family, & to those who wanted at least a modicum of justice on her behalf. R.I.P. Ms. Lam.
+GeekenDorx My biggest ? is what was she doing staying @ the Cecil in the 1st place? I know the Downtown, Skid Row/Rescue Mission area has been somewhat gentrified since I lived there, but the underbelly remains intact, & it is crusty & infectious even for its street-smart inhabitants. The recently created galleries, sushi-bars, & upscale clubs are, for the most part, window-dressing for the elite to hit when they get the urge to go "slumming", then they head back to Glendale or Hollywood or wherever they really live once the party's over. Don't know much about the new condo set. I guess they just enjoy spending exorbitant amounts of cash to live dangerously. But Elisa, being not only an out-of-towner, but a young greenhorn from another country, wouldn't know about any of this. All I can figure is, the Cecil's recent facelift campaign, falsely billing it as the safe, new, trendy spot for young up & comers to patronize, caught her eye when she was looking for an affordable place to stay & maybe meet up with some fellow travelers in her own age-set. And we all know how that turned out. Shame on them yet again, for sucking this hapless young woman in with their treacherous advertising spin. If only she had done some homework on the hood & establishment before committing. Some vacation.
+TheSWolfe I agree. I don't think it was suicide. I think she was murdered. It's possible that she wasn't in the tank when they originally took the dogs up there. Perhaps an employee or a resident there had her hidden in a room or somewhere inside the hotel. Then after the search and because of the search, the killer or killers took her up there. Ruling this an accident or suicide just seems bizarre, and it reminds me of the Spraekels mansion case where police came to the conclusion that Rebecca Zahau hanged herself from the balcony with her hands and feet bound (hands behind her back) and a gag in her mouth, naked as well. The husband was a rich pharmaceutical CEO.
I recall the Zahau case, & yes, she must've been some contortionist to pull that one off! As for Elisa, your theory's sound. Consider murder, or assault of some kind accidentally resulting in death; either way, you've a corpse on your hands. Not everyone staying there has a vehicle, & even if he/she/they did, they'd be hard-pressed to get her down the stairs/elevator & out the bldg. to the pkng lot unseen. Up is easier than down in that case. Couldn't keep her in a room unnoticed for too long--the stench of decay is a powerful thing. So, to the roof she winds up, but what to do w/her now that she's there? The tanks would be the only place her body could be fully concealed & unnoticed, at least long enough for the perps to clear out, or until the water turned foul. And even then, they needn't necessarily leave. Immersion in water & putrefaction would remove any chance of detecting prints on her person. For all we know, if it was foul play & not suicide, those responsible might still be living there, snug as bedbugs in a bloodstained rug. The Cecil holds many secrets, that would just be one more.
IF she did kill herself.... Its not the hotels fault. You can NOT stop people from committing suicide if they make up their mind on doing it... And if she was "off her meds" Well thats not the hotels fault. Shes not a child ... I am tired of the nanny state putting blame on others for peoples actions. This being said I think foul play was involved ... why get naked and jump into a water tank when you can just jump off the roof ?
I would have been really interested to hear from the people who shared her initial room before she was moved to a private. It does just seem like there is so much more to look into here.
This was pretty disheartening but was very interesting to hear what Elisa's family believed happened (or at least what they were saying happened for the case Against Cecil). I know that this is going over VERY old ground, but the one thing that I will always be extremely frustrated over in this case is the edited and slowed down footage. The fact it was never explained why this happened and who was responsible was naturally going to attract a massive amount of speculation and conspiracy theorists to the case. Maybe if that footage was released in it's full and non-slowed state it would have made people accept a more rational explanation but as it wasn't, made the whole thing a circus with talks of ghosts, being possessed, rituals, etc. This was a young woman that had her life tragically cut short, and even though it would have attracted less media (pretty much every other video I have seen on the case has made it out to be supernatural), it would have at least had the case portrayed in the very 'real life tragedy' way that Elisa deserved as a human being. Great stuff, John! I like many others first found your channel through the Elisa series, and if this really is the last entry in it, I just want to say that you have done an amazing job in turning what most see as a spooky horror story into a sensible and respectful discussion.
+Veggie Gamer Yes, but consider the idea: why was the footage released at all? Elisa was considered a missing person originally, and the footage was completely useless in helping the public figure out her whereabouts. Why would the police and media release a doctored video they, allegedly, believed showed a missing person? Something was covered up in the case even if it actually had nothing to do with Elisa's death.
+Veggie Gamer Thanks so much Veggie Gamer. I may do a tribute video to her, and I guess there is the chance that the family will appeal the decision. I'll certainly keep an eye on things. Have a great one, John
This story and the disappearance of Maura Murray break my heart. It's so sad to watch that video of Elisa knowing what was about to happen and just wishing you could go back in time and reach out to stop it. It still bothers me that there may be other footage that exists that hasn't been shown of the stairwells, exits, parking lot etc. I mean really what was the purpose of releasing only the elevator video? I used to work at a hotel and we had motion detection cameras recording every exit. So if she never gets back on the elevator and isn't seen leaving the hotel on the other cameras, as a matter of deduction, they should have absolutely KNOWN at that point something happened to her. It's a gruesome thing to say but either A) her body was still in the hotel or B) someone had taken her body out of the hotel in a suitcase. The hotel and law enforcement should have searched the hotel as a potential crime scene until they found some evidence of foul play or until they found her body.
The hotel was negligent if for no other reason than they knew the roof was basically what would be considered like an attractive nuisance in personal property liability. They knew people had been going up to the roof, did nothing to prevent it and yet still failed to find her body afterwards.
+GeekenDorx thanks for another great impartial analysis. My heart "wants" this to be as it has been reported - a tragic accident - it seems preferrable to the "boogey-man or haunted hotel" alternative. However my head is saying something else entirely because there are way too many still unanswered questions. Firstly of course there is still the unexplained manipulated, sped up footage with a full minute apparently edited out. Then there is the fact that the poor girl was naked suggesting that she took her clothes off and entered the tank herself (if there was no boogeyman) rather than having, say bumped her head and fallen in, which could explain the next point... the fact that she had no water in her lungs. Then there is the presence of the sandlike substance that was found on her clothing, nothing of the like being found on the roof or in the immediate vicinity. I haven't been back to reread the autopsy report again so my memory is hazy around this part, however I do recall the report stated that she had suffered a prolapsed anus. I am not sure how this injury could occur aside from sexual assault, maybe there is a way this can happen in other circumstances in which I'm wrong in pointing this out to be unexplained. Those things are concrete items that are glaringly unexplained and going by those alone I really don't feel like we are getting the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth from the authorities here. If those points had been satisfactorily laid to rest I could possibly forget the other smaller, more coincidental circumstances such as Elisa's tweet about the invisibility cloaks and the close proximity of the Invisible Light Company, the hotel employee who states that Elisa was seen in the presence of several men who gave her a mysterious box in the hotel lobby, and the "coincidence" of the Lam Elisa TB testing kit that had been/was being used in the neighbourhood as well as the anomalous social media entries and apparent lack of any other photos of Elisa apart from the two or three that we have been shown by the news media. To cap it off, the announcement that they are to put a swimming pool on the roof where she died. This is sheer insult at worst and total thoughtlessness at best. Since I do not see how someone could NOT have realised how distasteful it would be to put a pool up there, it seems like it is a deliberate insult. It's a bit odd that the judge was changed as well, and apparently the new judge is a sex offender. Nothing about this case sits well at all with me and I really do wish it did because I don't like to think that the poor girl suffered any more than she apparently did if we are to believe the official line. But it's just all so wrong. But it doesn't look like anybody, including her parents, are willing to push it any further so I doubt we are ever going to see justice done if it does need doing.
Roesch -4- Broward County Sheriff what are you talking about clearly someone did this to her no way she accidentally went to the roof lost her phone took all her clothes off climbed a water tank and jumped in
+Cameron Brwdway This is my #1 problem with the entire story, and I don't understand why it's continually glossed over. It's as if she and everyone she knew popped into existence just for this thing to happen, then completely vanished. These parents have literally not said a single word publicly or ever appeared outside of a brief background cameo on the news. And I deliberately use the word "cameo" because I believe that at least some percentage of this story is a performance. They DON'T EVEN SHOW UP to court? Her entire family just couldn't make it, huh?
+Ryan Pennington you have to understand, that the family is Chinese, and they are naturally a lot more reserved and private (also embarrassed at what Americans and othere Westerners think nothing of). They try to keep everything and themselves much more low key. They might already have felt like strangelt with all that media attention about their daughter, and her being emotionally/mentally ill isn't normally something they would have liked to advertise for the whole world to know.
I mean, fair enough, to that point. I can cop to possibly being ignorant to cultural differences. I can also admit to taking this story a bit personally. I connected with it emotionally because - if what we're being told is true - I share some of the same disorders Ms. Lam had and, in fact, take the same amount of medication she did. Some being EXACTLY THE SAME medication. Once all was said and done with this story, I felt overwhelmingly duped. Not disappointed - duped. Not by Mr. Lordan, but by whoever authored (what I saw as) the fiction, and I took personal offense to that.
For sure -- what's the point in even having a court case if you won't show up to fight for your daughter's loss of life and make a positive example of this (at least prevent something like this from maybe happening again). I don't buy it; I almost don't buy it. It's either foul play, something's really odd happened, or it's not even a real case -- that whole court case just sounds like an f---ing charade! Judge just there to dismiss the dismissal of the Lam family. Why? What's the point? It's like they're just carrying out the charade, and if John and reporters hadn't have gone it would have presumably gone ahead as this routine-charade just because it needed to be dealt with - done and dusted. It's too weird and I'm pretty upset about it as well, Ryan. It's something that disturbed me and didn't sit right with me back then that month of 2013 when I heard about it. Just caught up with John's BrainScratch videos on the case which I've been meaning to watch for a couple of years. Well researched, as much as they can be by him or any of us, good questions, good points, by him and in the comments, as well as a load of frustrating speculation, cloudiness, but by the end it's such a pointless exercise. Swimming pools! What a joke. That's what it amounts to. Life goes on. That's the symbol.
So she was seen with two men? Kind of suspicious if you ask me. They could of painted a better picture of what Elisa did that night if we had their interviews...if they interviewed them. Funny how this case ends up in the Cecils favor when a new buyer is about. The whole thing is suspect, and trying to be swept under the rug. Your original theory about the suspicious nature of Elisa identity being fabricated can still be valid as well since the most important to their family is happening and they didn't even show up.
Bill Em I've read that on January 31st, last day she was seen, she went to a local bookstore and some employees helped her carry her purchases back to the hotel. I can't verify this but it sounded plausible the places I've seen it. I've wondered if these are the men she was seen with. Especially since some stories say they gave her something.
my gut still tells me there is a lot more to this case than a girl missing her meds. I think the family took this approach per legal advice they were given and lacking any hard evidence at their disposal.
"Accidental death"...After everything is said and done, I still think it unreasonable to think that Elisa had a mental breakdown, accessed the roof and got into the watertank herself (without a ladder). She would also have had to remove all her clothes while still on the roof, then get to the water tank opening, drop the clothes into the tank before jumping in herself. Those factors combined with her phone vanishing, makes me still believe this is a murder case.
Agreed!! There are way too many sketchy details..out of all the cameras there I cannot believe that not one caught something other than the elevator shenanigans..of course I don't know and am no expert..but you do not need to be to realize something sinister happened to her..if she had some kind of psychological breakdown there would be no reason to tamper with the footage, if it was indeed tampered with that is..if it wasn't an employee maybe it is possible it was a cover up..trying to escape accountability if there was a person(s) with a criminal background staying there and they knew and didn't want to face more bad press..or face any kind of negligence charges..idk either way it is horrid...the missing phone is very telling in my opinion...and her repeatedly pushing buttons and looking out as if she was anxious about something or someone.
***** that is very possible..one scenario I haven't thought of! Since I commented I've found out there actually is more footage the police just won't release it evidently...they said it shows her in the lobby I believe with 2 men and they said one was holding a box...could be for several reasons..as you stated she could have been having some kind of episode and maybe the person realized and offered to carry a box she was carrying for her so he could take advantage and gain access to her room easily
The only explainable theory for accidental death IMHO. She goes to the roof, sees the tank open because some stupid staff member may have left it open, due to a manic high, she thinks it's a good idea to go skinny dipping. Accidentally drowns, someone closes the tank (may or may not have seen her body). Her cell phone she could have lost at anytime, or someone stole it before she went missing.
This case really got to me. Whatever happened to her, I think, is the hotels fault, or at least the hotels fault that we don't know what happened to her. I'm quite sad that this was thrown out. The Hotel alarmed one door for a reason. It's dangerous to be up there. Someone could be hurt up there and the hotels water supply could easily be accessed. The Lam's had a poor legal team.
After reviewing tons of footage online... I believe there's way more to this story. Lots of college age people go on trips by themselves and explore she seemed very intelligent and self aware of here own circumstancs. She knew and planned her trip she definitely was going to Northern Cali next, bought books in such for family at a bookstore near Cecil...she was very independent, self assured, knew what she was doing planning for her trip. Normal adventurous stuff for a woman of her age. I believe if she never stayed at the Cecil she would be alive n well today... Everything went well until she came to that hotel...shes pretty, alone, young, in a seedy area of Los Angeles. She could not have picked a worse hotel or location.. But that's not her fault.... She just dident know the area obviously ..i feel a crime was commited and that elevator incident says alot... Not to discount the meds, but i feel that plays no factor in her death..that elevator scene says alot. A scared young woman.. She obviously did not fit in this environment, naive, a prettyn classy woman alone at the Cecil...someone or something made her uncomfortable... Clearly. That is not from her meds....she was able to function just fine on her trip according to socialmedia. Remember this all took place at that rancid horrible area... N hotel... I believe this needs to be reinvestigated....everything was okay up until she stayed there. So sad n heartbreaking... I hope they find the killer and or what she was so afraid of. ...because that was not medication behavior something was happening... To her that was totally out of character. R.I P. Elisa may justice be served.
Another video documentary on this case mentioned an odd fact that seems to be overlooked -- that Elisa's room was actually on the 4th floor and this elevator scene happened on the 14th floor. It also mentioned that hotel short-stay guests are given the lower floors, and the long-time residents have the upper floors. This means that it is possible Elisa was visiting someone on the 14th floor, the room of a long-term resident, and this elevator scene was her trying to return to her room on the 4th floor. This means that someone somewhere needs to get a list of the long-term residents of that floor and question them concerning their alibis that night. It IS a hotel/residence known to inhabit people of questionable pasts and presents, so someone somewhere knows what happened and is not coming forward. This aspect needs to be investigated further.
flowergirlinWard17 I LITERALLY think this comment is THE key... Because a longtime resident would know where the cameras are, where to avoid being seen with her, how to get to the rooftop from the fire escape (possibly) without triggering the alarm by going through the door (even though that alarm seems not to reliably-function...) The LAPD also never checked EVERY room unless they "had reason to suspect", which meant that they could have checked Elisa's old and new rooms, and maybe the 2 "bad-water-quality rooms" that the maintenance guy checked, and then very well skipped an upper-floor resident's room... Also, I think the "Fecto Cunt Her Suma" graffiti has more to do with the case than we might think; obviously someone has gotten onto the roof in 2012 and dated that particular graffiti (that jumbled order version of the "Her Suma" phrase), and then in EARLY 2013 we find it again (although undated) and very-near a recently-deceased female body??? It just seems too weird. I think a resident or a grifter who was VERY familiar with wandering the hotel, wrote those, and likely had something to do with it.
The only thing left that's really unexplained for me is if she walked on then climbed about on the roof and into the tanks how comes the police dogs didn't pick up any scent and why weren't there any of her finger prints found on the ladders or tank lid or even on the inside of the hotel fire escape window..?
Robin, I agree and I don't believe she used the external fire escape to access the roof as the last section of the ladder onto the roof is vertical and without back protection meaning if you slip you could easily fall to the ground. This would be scary to the majority of people in my opinion. We know a lot of people were accessing the roof and it appears the internal roof access door alarm wasn't working so perhaps someone suggested they both go up together. I take it you're suggesting she was placed in the tank by someone else?
So in your opinion was she forced to climb the ladder onto the elevator maintenance room then drop down onto the tank or did she climb a removable ladder placed against the tank? Either way if she was forced to into the tank she would have left forensic evidence behind?
Will explain in our video. However in answering your questions. She went through the alarmed door, not alone. Why would there be forensic evidence left behind? There was a ladder against the tank she was found in Alastair. That ladder had been there many moons, wooden the removable one as you state This would have been used, either way if she jumped in herself or walked up it under duress - either way forensics. She was found 3 weeks later, what makes anyone think the LAPD checked the ladder? They never checked the tanks. We can all forget about forensics.. by the way most of what we have established is not just "made up" so to speak, no wild theories. You have to find out about the whole trip not just the ending. Means / Motive / Method. Who had the means? What was their motive? What was the method? Thank you for your questions Alastair, she did not fall of her medication. That was not the reason for her sad death.
how would she even know that water tanks are up there? i would just think the water comes out the ground like everyone else. so my question is how would she have crawled into a water tank and drown if she didn't even know about the tanks in the first place, even in a psychosis the thought of water tanks on the roof should not have been in her head
+Shaun Mackay You can't conceive of a scenario where she is perusing the hotel and tries to get to the roof. Once she's up there she sees the water tanks and gets in? (If we're going on the theory that it was an accident).
Maybe a hot tub better Suited. Relaxation. People vacationing enjoy such things. Something about rooftops and hot water and beautiful night skies. The pool is a good idea also. Just not sure how sound the structure. Would hate for another incident to happen. The hotel doesn't need any more horror. Should do their best to move on.
I`ve spent many years working in the concrete industry calibrating scales which ahs sometime involved standing on top of silos that have lids that are not hinged. Yet they are locked by 2, 3 or 4 bolts with large wing nuts secured together by a chain hooked through a hole in 2 opposing nuts that contain holes and are secured by padlocks. So to say they aren't lockable because they are not hinged is TOTAL RUBBISH. Those padlocks as mentioned above prevent those nuts from being turned until the padlock is unlocked allowing each nut to rotate 360 degrees and eventually falling away. On a side note I was doing my apprenticeship in the late 80`s when a bunch of people became very ill requiring hospitalization. The finding - arsenic poisoning by someone I knew in the next workshop that didn't like being given instruction by his superiors. Consequently he poured a box of rat poison into the urn that people were drinking from while making their coffee. The lid was essentially an " UNLOCKED " dust cover and the urn was automatically filled by a valve mechanism. Having those lids on those water tanks ( unlocked ) would not only allow a similar thing to happen to everyone but the issue of sunlight causing bacterial issues like meningitis etc should also be a basic justification for having locked lids. On this basis alone I would call the Cecil Hotel negligent. If they were aware of others trespassing in the past they didn't take adequate measures to prevent this situation from happening in the first place.
I'm like you, I wish they would have a full trial. I still think it's kind of BS about her having a psychotic break. I just have a feeling something worse happened to her. I could be wrong, but that's just what is in my heart.
I don't feel any sense of closure from the judge's decision at all.. it just feels like there are so many aspects of this case that have been ignored in court, like do we even know how she got up there in the first place? Is there any security footage from the stairwell to the roof or on the fire escapes? Like has the family seen this and know Elisa got up there on her own or has the potential for foul play been completely ignored?
Crylo_Ren so blaming the hotel would give you closure? The hotel should pad all corners and remove all sharp objects because someday they may hurt someone? Instead of asking the government to turn your world into a safe space, Why not ask why they didn't put a bell around her neck? Because they're both stupid questions. Bad things happen.
Brandon Clark What are you on about? OP didn't even mention blaming the hotel for anything, he just asked whether the hotel has any security footage of Lam on her way up the roof, and for me personally "Bad things happen" is not a good enough explanation to her case
Wow that's disappointing to hear. What worries me the most is that theoreticaly anyone could have access to the watertanks. What if people they put something like poisen in there.
Give me a break, anything can be poisoned. Why are people so afraid of everything now. ( oh yea, terrorism) People can be evil or good, but to take every precaution not to get poisoned or killed you must lock yourself in a box. Theoretically anyone can crash into us and kill us. Anyone can get a weapon and kill one of us at any moment.
+Lukas T At least we know they have now added locks to them. It's just a shame there wasn't some building code enforcement to make that happen prior to Elisa's visit.
+GeekenDorx Not to mention setting a precedence for what is obviously a huge problem. There is no explanation here that is acceptable. Suicidal, on drugs or not, all the available information means nothing when compared to a safe environment in which Elisa could have gotten help and not ended up in a water tank.
The hotel is responsible for her death. I don't care how it happened. To not have that door locked and not having an alarm on it, let alone the water tank not having a lock and even an alarm. I believe you could get a water tank with an alarm. Imagine if someone could get the lock off and put something in the water? To not have an alarm that would alert someone about it, to arrest them, and clean the water. Same thing with the water being contaminated. If there isn't an alert that something got in the water and it's not at the right setting, then what good is it. I wonder how much her family has either been told or their knowledge on how things should work.
Let us learn to love one another more, including those among us who are lost and are having problems finding their own way for whatever reasons. Mental illness often rears its ugly head once the adolescent has transitioned into his or her adult body. That is frequently why so many young college adults "break down." Mental illness is highly likely a medically based illness. Let us express more compassion toward one another. Please consider it. Thank you and thank you for your coverage of this tragic tale. RIP Elisa. May you find the joy that you once sought on this earth.
Thank you John for going to the court session. I tend to agree with you that Eliza deserved more than 1 mind to decide her and families fate. To me something still feels off and I can't quite put my finger on it. Wish I could figure it out.
The Lam's attorney HAD to say that, because they are suing the hotel. They wanted to move focus from the mystery to the lack of hotel security! NO ONE can say for sure exactly what happened to her. Her tox-screen, and pill bottle indicated that she kept up with her medication...plus a day of skipped Bi polar meds doesn't equal immediate break. It would take a while for the meds in her system to "wear off" and for her to have a break. Plus there was No indication of her wanting to stop her meds. she already booked and planned out a trip, it wasn't the last stop of her trip. She also was so cautious of taking her meds that she got extra at her pharmacy because she was going away. She was searching for happiness, not for a way out so there wouldn't even be a reason for her to not take her meds.
Exactly. The police like to close cases as my cousin tells me. He's a detective and says reflects bad on the lapd when they aren't able to close cases quickly, and would do anything to never reopen a case cause it shows their mistakes. Just like I'm Kurt Cobains case, when there are no witnesses and mysterious, suspicious deaths...they go with the easiest way out and close the case. I think you're right about the lawyer, seems to me like the family is too scared to come to the states maybe truly believing in posession
8 years now REST IN PEACE TO ELISA LAM WHO JUST WANTED TO GET ON WITH HER LIFE GOD BLESS HER SOUL AMD EVERY OTHER'S WHO HAVE PASSED AWAY FROM ALL TIME!
I do believe Elisa may have had mental issues as a young girl in her 20's, but dismissing any concerns regarding a possibility of murder in such an outright "because I said so" way seems like a rush to judgment to me. Yes, she wasn't killed by a "boogeyman", but using that term makes it sound as if they are belittling anyone that believes the evidence points to foul-play; I still feel like she was targeted by someone who recognized her as a vulnerable tourist that would be an easy victim. It is possible that she did have an accident, or even became suicidal, but I have a hard time dismissing the homicide aspects just by saying so without proof (why did she take her clothes off before drowning herself?, etc.) I feel for the Lam family for the lack of answers uncovered, and hope they can move beyond this if they haven't already.
I fully agree! If nothing else, the case should have had the cause of death labeled as, "undetermined." If you can't prove the drowning to be accidental, nor an act of homicide, it simply means that the ample amount of evidence present was inconclusive. This seems to be very, very lazy and shoddy work. However, the LAPD is sort of known for their incompetency, and so I shouldn't find this as surprising as I do. People have theorized that she had removed her clothing in an effort to keep herself afloat, but that doesn't explain why should would have removed her undergarments as well. Also, it would be extremely difficult and take a good amount of effort in order to remove your clothing while also trying to keep yourself afloat. I think that theory could be ruled out. The theory that I can't debunk, however, is that of a potential psychotic break. I do find it odd, having dealt with multiple mental illnesses myself for over a decade, that this could happen as a result of a mental illness or adverse reaction to psychiatric medication. I still think there's a very strong possibility of foul-play present; I've thought this over rather well, and I've concluded that if someone were to force her to get into the water tank at weapon-point, Elisa may have been more, "willing" to do so as opposed to attempting to escape back into the hotel, because she may have assumed that she could have easily gotten out of the tank after the person left (and we know she had slept with a guy while on vacation, so the possibility that she had hooked up with a murderer can't be ruled out either - it's also really convenient that her cellphone had went missing during her stay at the Cecil). Of course, perhaps I'm allowing my imagination to run wild and I have no way of substantiating such theories. Irregardless, I think that the hotel certainly is at fault and should be punished to the full extent of the law. Multiple RUclipsr's have proven that the Cecil Hotel doesn't keep the rooftop entry door locked as it should, and window rooftop exits are far too accessible (the rooftop should be checked frequently and the windows should be guarded). They should also have better quality elevator cameras, more cameras around the hotel in general, and they should fix the issues with the elevator doors and panel.
+Xiaomin L Feador I still have no reasonable explanation for that. Some theories have to do with her mental state, or trying to use her clothing to block incoming water. It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me though.
GeekenDorx Maybe she got out of her clothes while having the psychotic episode, fooling around on top of the water tan, throwing her clothes into the water, and slipped. But that theory sounds stretchy even to myself.
I'm starting to think that the missing footage may well be known to the family, and that it may be witheld at their request. Perhaps if her mental state was this bad she acted in a way that would cause negative judgement and cause embarrassment to her/the family. Basically, enough is shown to help identify her and show how she may have been behaving, but releasing embarassing footage would not be helpful to a missing persons case. Then, after her body was found, there's no need to release that footage. It perhaps shows a more concrete example of her mindset that would put debate to rest.
+Baron Thundercunt could be, but then again, there might still have been something/someone else there, that would compromose either the hotel or the police.
+dwilloughby13 no they arnt! don't comment on something you clearly know nothing about. I have had depression for many years and experienced bi polar episodes, they are not the same thing.
+lucy girl +dwilloughby13 is right. they are both the same, with Bipolar Personality Disorder being the newest official name. there are two different types of BPPD tho, that may be what you're thinking about, bppd1 and bppd2
i dont believe she had a psychotic break. even if she wrote a strange postcard, climbing into that tank is beyond bizarre. i suspect a smart killer got away with a horrible murder.
+Joseph Blue - iff the worker when investing the water complaint and found her body... was able to lift the lid.... well somebody... planed to dump her body in there... and l believe that she was dead before... as it would have been a struggle to get a live person in there... therefore l think.... that that somebody got a ladder and used a bar to lift that heavy lid... than he went and to her and carried her maybe on his shoulder dumped her in and closed the lid.... what other way can this have been done..... ?
So the conclusion is that this was an accident and the family accepted this, so why was the footage manipulated and slowed down, and it was said that the police said that there were no signs of foul play and couldn't trace her tracks up to the water tower, so if this was an accident, her tracks would of been left all they way up to the tower and in the water tower So many questions left unanswered
Here's the conclusion to me she was a damn adult who made her own decision to go off her meds n is responsible for herself she knew going off her meds wasn't smart but did n if she dies buy accident it's her own fault can't sue everyone for her mistakes
+Stephen Ray the family accepted that this is an accident from the beginning when their lawyer only talking about the fault of not having locks on the tanks, he dismissed everything else and kept talking about that like if the tanks were locked she wouldn't find another way to harm herself like jumping off or something. of course everything is possible but what i mean is, the family definitely talked with their lawyer and decided to to stick to this argument ! WHY? maybe they know the condition of their daughter and how severe her illness is. maybe they saw somethings on the videos that were revealed to them and not to the public that made their decision. this case must have "to be continued.... " text
the Chinese are very private people, at least in my experience. my close friend, Henry, died surrounding curious circumstances and his family declined to make any statements. his parents are immigrants. he was my close friend and I'll never know what happened to him or where his body is resting and I worked at the location where he passed!!! it tears me up!!! (p.s. I know this is not how all Chinese people act and I mean no harm. this is just my experience surrounding a curious death of a young Chinese person)
amethystwyvern absolutely not the hotels fault. You can't regulate your life into your perfect little safe space. Bad things happen. Either she is responsible, or her killer. In no way did the hotel contribute to her death, other than possibly an employee.
John Lordan: the last bookstore, one of the last place Elisa visited before going to the Cecil Hotel on its domain has the address of the cemetery in Burnaby, British Columbia where her remains rest. thats strange.
So disappointed. It sounds like to me the prosecution dropped the ball on this one and that the family didn't have the heart for a fight. I'm wondering if someone can get the police records by filing a Freedom Of Information request. There are too many unanswered questions. Bipolar disorder usually manifests in extreme moods, either highly energetic, compulsive or agitation , then followed by a period of deep low and inactivity. But a complete break from reality? I don't know. I hope we can get more info somehow.
+Carolyn Neumann There are about 3 or 4 types of bipolar disorder and all of them can have a lot of varying degrees of psychosis that can differ in extremes and symptoms.
***** Yeah, definitely a high possibility. My mom has more of a Cyclothymic Disorder, her moods can get high and low pretty quickly and she can go on major shopping sprees when she's on a high. Also, read my Seroquel comment I posted. Supposedly she was taking Seroquel and high doses of that stuff can knock you out and cause you to be out of it. I take it occasionally but not every night because it's addicting and causes major weight gain. (I have depression and anxiety)
I don't know, she supposedly had the where for all to get up on the roof, climb up the tank and get in the water. You know my gut is just screaming there is more to it than that. Perhaps we will never know.
Maybe she was suicidal from not taking her pills for awhile and then starting them again or taking too many or coming off of a certain pill. You're right, who knows...
a swimming pool on top of the roof where she died at WOW thats like making a bomb factory where the 9/11 site was at Dude WTF my Jaw has Dropped WOW im just in Awe you can't be serious I know i'm not the only one creeped out and disturbed by this T_T PS I been following a youtuber that been to the Cecil Hotel and she made a point that made my Brain Scratched not sure if you heard of this but she said that the 911 number doesn't work in this hotel this makes me question why?
ELBee London its quite how do you say Morbid she lost her life and now they put a swimming pool like thats like putting a 9/11 world trade centers death site into a Airplane museum just really in poor taste and quite disturbing on many levels
ELBee London I dont know what she said but it sounded like she was offended for no reason because I brought up 9/11 and like I got family from NYC over there so why would i diss the victims but to start off your words like are you fucking serious they were killed by terrorist no really you think I was around the time that happened in America like I live here too so for her to insult me like that I seen Red and hit the block button im not even gonna say what she said about Elisa Lam this isn't High School people need to grow up stop throwing shade -_-
Hi, at the Cecil Hotel trial were you able to gather the names of the people who attended?Just wondering if anyone who was an employee of the hotel at that time came? Seems to me that the murderer would come to see what happened and if any information came up. the cut video to me is a slam dunk and this girl was murdered. I feel bad that the Hotel did not have to pay the family for them not having the tanks locked. the police in this case should be fired. No DNA taken at the water tanks or finger prints?Lie detector test taken on hotel employees/
No, but there weren't many. One person I could see was a reporter.. myself and another RUclipsr, more legal staff on both sides.. that was pretty much it.
John, thank you for your comments on the over medication of our society. I did a paper on this phenomenon in college. I suffer from bipolar myself but after a long period on light meds I had a series of complications and since 2005 I have been med-free and keeping the situation under control with proper diet and exercise (something doctors would say is impossible)- I I see myself i much of the girl's sad story for a number of reasons. Despite a team of doctors telling me not to I too moved abroad (to Italy) for an exchange program in 2002 and I have been here ever since. Living abroad, ALONE for a female presents a distinct set of problems which can be multiplied by 100 if you include a predisposition for mental illness. In my opinion, blaming this case on the poor girls delicate mental state is BS - pure and simple. If she had been manic we would have seen far different behaviour in the video. Her movements would have been faster (her hands for example would have been shaking instead of the magical child-like gestures in the video and she probably would have been hopping instead of calmly standing inside the elevator) and more erratic in addition to other public displays of irrational behaviour in other places on camera outside of the hotel. It is impossible to believe that the behaviour of a full blown manic episode would go unnoticed in the age of constant surveillance. The bookstore she supposedly visited for example would have had similar footage or testimony for example. None of these are present and it is a shame that her parents are willing to write the case off to "accidental" so easily. Another thought- why didn't anyone hear her screaming from inside the tank???!!!! If we accept the fact that the roof was easier to access that was previously thought and that she was alive for a period of time long enough to remove her clothing in an attempt to stay afloat longer we can also assume she would have cried for help. Yelling in a tank normally magnifies the sound and therefor her screams would have been potentially audible to many in and around the hotel.... there are still many missing pieces to this story and blaming this death on the girls illness is unfair and unkind. Suicidesand/or accidents happen but not usually like this even in the case of mental illness. Just thought you might like to know. Take care and thanks for the excellent coverage of this situation.
Nobody said she was manic. They said it was a psychotic break, which implies a period of acute psychosis. Psychosis is disruptions in perceptions of reality, basically it can make it hard to distinguish reality. Since the form this takes is only limited by the imagination of a currently psychotic person, its reasonable that it could have caused her to act the way we saw in the tape, and have acted in a way that could get her into that tank. On a side note you should really break that into paragraphs, it was pretty hard to read as it. In academic writing you rarely see a paragraph over 10 sentences, yours is 15.
+Ittbittykittycommitte, thank you for reading my comment- from the comments usually posted on RUclips I was not aware that the "academic" format was necessary but I will keep that in mind for the future. It has been stated many times that Elisa suffered from bipolar disorder. This is a broad term that describes a person who experiences (some degree of) periods of intense happiness followed by periods of depression generally in cycles. This can include hallucinations (though less common than disorders like schizophrenia) and if extreme, a break with reality. (The actress who played Lois Lane in the old Superman films had a horrible break - during a manic period- that caused her to live on the street and pull the fillings from her teeth because she thought the government was using them to track her-for example) Bipolar illness has often been cited as responsible for her "psychotic break" and I find this odd- unless she was also suffering from some combination of illnesses. A combination of illnesses has never been cited in the information I have found though I did not read the coroner's report to see the list of meds she was taking. Lithium or Carbamezapine (also used for epilpsy) are typically used to treat bipolar disorder. The fact there was a list of various meds (in the autopsy) could mean that she did indeed have more than one illness. If that is true, it should be stated when discussing the "break" instead of citing only biploar. My observation is that her "break" does not display the behaviour usually observed in a bipolar related "break" and that there is a general misunderstanding of mental illness. This often leads to a lack of investigation on the part of law enforcement when the individual missing is considered to be mentally ill. The facts in this case are NOT clear and deserve more investigation. If she had not been "mentally ill" the police and her family would not have given up so quickly- this is both sad and unjust. As a society we are much more likely to defend bias based on race than mental or physical disability. I would argue "mentally ill or physically disabled lives matter" - urging law enforcement to take cases of disappearances or deaths (like Elisa Lam) more seriously. Thank you for your thoughts and take care.
Academic format is not necessary, I just used it as an example. It does have the distinction of having some of the longer paragraphs on average though lol. Paragraph length is based on topic mostly, you start a new one for each new topic. In causal writing, which is what I would call any comment thread, that would be the only real guideline, and it's just to make it easier to read. I do know what Manic Depression is... I just didn't want to be that guy who explains it to someone who has it like they don't already know lol. Guess I could have saved you a little time there lol. I also should have been more clear, they said it was a psychotic break due to "falling of" her meds. Even with some basic low dose antidepressants, stopping use suddenly can cause some serious backlash. I have experienced a wide array of symptoms from suddenly stopping these medications, including episodes of psychosis that lasted an hour at best and 2 days at worst. You'll forgive me if I don't detail what happened during them, but suffice to say even though I was in touch with reality enough to figure out it was psychosis, I still wasn't in touch enough to feel safe my bathroom lol. The reason was absurd though, I promise you. If it was acute psychosis (more severe than my episodes I'm sure) it's not hard to imagine any number of circumstances which would prompt her to do that since, as I said, it's really only limited by ones imagination.
I personally think that there's so much more to the case. lack of avidence and the camera footage that was released to the public is just not enough...
I'm having trouble coming to grips with the "her parents are at fault, they should have been keeping a better eye on her" defense. Not only was she well (3+ years) into adulthood, but her parents reside in an entirely different country. Why are they treating her as if she were a minor who ran away from home or something? We seem to have no problem trying children as adults when they commit crimes, yet we want to blame the parenting when a grown woman goes missing and/or is mysteriously found dead on the opposite side of the planet? Shit makes no sense.
WTF! The prosecutor is stupid! You should've represented Elisa's family John, you know better! If I am the prosecutor I wouldn't yes it was an accident I would have challenged their surveillance system, the LAPD investigation and all those fishy things... Haayy there's just no justice because there's too may coward and stupid people. Sorry I'm just frustrated and I feel for her family.☹️
If our lovely Elisa were a rich politician or a well known celebrity the hotel would have been successfully sued (or settled out of court) due to the hotel failing to provide at the very least alarm activated security doors leading to the roof top. They make a hell of a noise when the doors are pulled without a key card which only the owner/ staff would have access to. Would answer that one question did someone killed her and try to hide her body, if they opened the doors to the roof, alarms would have been blaring throughout the entire hotel. The prosecution didn't drop the ball the prosecution simply wasn't invested in a case about a mentally ill young woman who to them was not anyone they actually had to fight for! It is truly dangerous to jump the gun and instantly blame her mental illness for her ending up dead in a water tank, especially when it involves an unexplained death that does not immediately make sense. I really feel that is precisely what the prosecutors did! They blamed her illness which may not have factored into her death at all. They hotel is liable and the prosecutor should be replaced. No justice for this woman or her family who most likely are crippled with guilt and regret for allowing Elisa who struggles with mental health issues to go away to college, feeling they could have prevented her death. Which of course they couldn't have. How is the family ever to recover from the loss of a daughter and sister. Especially when they have no answers and their daughter is now just another statistic. Having lived with a family member with this disorder and as a Crisis intervention specialist working for many years with many individuals with a variety of mental issues...The question is - Is it possible she had a major hyper- manic episode which may have severely exacerbated extreme risk taking behaviors in addition to being highly impulsive and if she was feeling threatened might she have run up to hide in a water tank, no one can say. But hyper manics tend to be fearless in the extreme, feeling immortal almost. She probably would have raised hell and fought back with immense strength which is typical during hyper manic episodes, she could have done some real damage to someone if she felt threatened, doubtful she would have run! Or was she so clinically depressed she was suicidal? Maybe, Yet again highly doubtful, it's a lot of work to end your life in that manner, more importantly it's not necessary, an overdose is typically seen in female cases. From observing her behavior in the elevator...she does not appear to be a person about to end her life. We can see her clearly smiling upon reentering the elevator at one point and you don't purposely repeatedly press all the elevator buttons to ensure the doors remain open and stationary, and you don't repeatedly stand outside the protection of the elevator in the hall out in the open if you are trying to escape- makes no sense. It looked like she was playing H&S, and was waiting for someone to try and find her. She did not appeared terrified, again she was smiling and very animated while appearing to beckon someone to her...If anything she was likely blinded sided and never seen it coming! But a psychologist is not a psychiatrist, yet still, to me her behavior in the video- such as it was, is not conducive with the symptoms of a major depressive episode and appears to lack the hyper manic energy of an untreated major manic episode. She may appear mildly hyper and possibly mildly anxious, even possibly agitated but none are extreme in nature. But If she was in fact experiencing an episode and was using recreational intoxicants to relieve her symptoms well that's entirely different, and since I'm very new to Elisa's story (and many comments express a large degree of misinformation or hiding info in her case that I've yet to learn) It's truly impossible to say without her being evaluated and only she could say for certain what she was experiencing. The only thing that is certain, she nor her family received justice! I wish her family peace.
parents don't always understand their children. Alot of families have terrible communication. they see a video of elisa being weird and assume she's fallen off meds. I don't buy the psychotic break theory. you don't have to be psychotic to do very unusual inexplicable things
Has anything new surfaced in the case since this video? And did no one bring up or challenge the California Regulations Related to Drinking Water? Chapter 16: California Waterworks Standards, Article 6: Design and Construction, Section B: Number 7? Regarding any tank to be " Equipped to prevent access from unauthorized persons." The "expert opinion"from the tank guy was legally correct. That hotel is liable and when they put locks on after the fact they admitted to that. Thanks for the thorough videos.
Why the hell would she climb into the tank ?????? If.....she was suicidal why didn't she just jump off the roof..... This is still strange to me... Why would anyone even crazy take their clothes off and jump into the tank?
+dwilloughby13 Maybe she was not suicidal. Maybe she just did it for fun or as a joke, crawled in there and drown-could not get back out for one reason or another.
+zudemaster yes, I agree with your theory, I think in the video she was making swimming gestures with her arms, somebody was talking to her I bet she was asking the mysterious person who worked there, suggested a swim in the tank and she, like you said couldn't get out and drowned
+zudemaster maybe the person she was trying to communicate with didn't speak English so she used hand gestures to communicate with him , and when her hands were out maybe she was asking why is there no pool here? and the tragedy went on from there, it might have just been an accidental drowning, it was stated that it was very hot in the hotel, and she just got it in her head that she wanted to swim and she was determined and probably that's that
I don't see how someone decides to access the roof and then fall off the roof have anything to do with not keeping the tanks locked. Although anyone can jump of a building via a window or other means, the hotel should be held accountable for at least not having the roof secure from guess. Someone jumping off a building doesn't endanger all the other occupants, but having access to the tanks is not only dangerous to the guess having access but could potentially endanger others in the hotel by contaminating the water that everyone uses. That should of been at least a counter argument by the prosecution.
hi John, I love your videos, I've watched all the Elisa Lam ones and many others. I was just rewatching the elevator video of Elisa and noticed something- when she steps into the hall, she seems to be miming SWIMMING! and was then found in WATER! either she was communicating with someone else, or was imagining that she was, but it clearly looks like a mime of "hey wanna go for a swim? yeah, lets do it!" that's what it looks like to me anyway. does anybody agree?
Thank you fof going to the trial and giving us a first hand account. I feel that the if the prosecution lawyer were more competent, the outcome would have been different. Guessing that the family, given they are Canadian residents, either weren't very savvy at selecting a local LA lawyer or couldn't afford a better one. Very tragic that Elisa passed like this.
I still lean toward foul play in this case. However no matter what Elisa's parents thought really happened, supernatural or not, obviously the only case they could bring to court would be over an accident. No court will take a case over a haunted hotel. In any event, it's hard to believe there is no law that public water tanks have to be locked. There should be a law like that. Especially in this age of terrorism and mass murderers...
Good reporting. Once they agreed "it was an accident due to medication neglect", the case was over. The hotel would not be held accountable due to unsecured water tank lids. At most the hotel could get a neglect charge and fined for safety issues. So, the prosecutor had no case left to argue when foul play was ruled out. Sad.
The problem with civil suits that go to trial is even if the jury finds in your favor, if the judge is a jackass and doesn't agree he can issue a remittance cutting dramatically the jury award for sketchy reasons. It happened to me in Federal Court. There was very strong evidence for Elisa's family to sue the Hotel certainly enough to go to trial just on the fact that any patron had unrestricted access to the roof and the hotel had prior knowledge that patrons had partied there so,. just as you described the burden on the Cecil to make it reasonably safe was minimal and the accident foreseeable. Your analysis of this was excellent, esp noting that the location of the low rent hotel would naturally attract a higher percentage of patrons who might be at risk due to addiction or mental illness. The Lam family's lawyer did a poor job, although it appears that the Judge would've dismissed it regardless given his history. It's a shame what happened to that young lady, her death at the Cecil could have been prevented by a few simple safety measures.
I'm not surprised. It's truly sad. Many people just assume all judges must be fair and impartial when in reality they routinely demonstrate the same biased opinions that would eliminate a citizen from becoming a juror in their court. This case is a perfect example as the judge was known to be biased against women for decades. It's nearly impossible to unseat a Judge, they would have to do something so heinous it would be hard to ignore or cover up. I really appreciate the work you and your fellow researchers have done to help uncover the truth and assist those who have been a victim of crime and the abject failure of our government to protect those of us most vulnerable, thanks to you all
i feel horrible ..someone's actually gotten away with murder...the killer or killers must be laughing their asses off when they heard about all of this...
Great job, John! Thanks so much for the new info! It is very dissappointing indeed that we might never know what actually happened to the poor girl. I provided the new infos to my german channel and gave you the credits for it! Keep up the great work! :-)
+Goruna X Thanks Goruna.. I checked out your latest vid today, but couldn't understand it too well without English subtitles. :-) Thanks for the shout out!!
I personally think the hotel staff are involved I’m following a you tuber who tried to film in the hotel and some around Elisa’s room and security were following him threatening him to stop or he would be thrown out
I think they were talking about duty of care. The result blew my mind. Of course business's have a duty of care for their clients/guests/employees etc. I agree with you, that the whole roof access thing should have been covered more and the fact that if people can access that area puts people at risk and should be properly secured. It doesn't matter if guests were allowed in that area, it should have been secured. Also you mentioned previously that there is no signage to that fact except for an alarmed gate that seemed to not to work. Here in Australia, the case would have continued, as we have laws for Duty of Care. It's sad that California does not.
This might sound a bit odd but does anyone know how far the water level was from the hatch? I am just wondering if she was with someone else (which is the theory put forward by some body language analysts) whether that person, perhaps as a joke or perhaps in anger threw her clothes in there? Maybe they were involved in some kind of sexual activity but she stopped it for some reason? Perhaps the guy wanted to go further than she did but wasn't a murderer. Maybe he just got pissed off and threw her clothes in the water tank. Maybe he stuck around or maybe he didn't. But imagine finding yourself naked on the roof of a hotel. I guess it would be fairly reasonable to assume you would try to retrieve your clothes. And perhaps in doing this she over-stretched, lost her balance and fell in?
I got A strange feeling this was some type of false flag scenario! Because of the outbreak on skid row! They didn't know how to handle it so they made this case to keep people's mind off of it or they did it because they knew they were gonna make a season of American Horror Story about a Hotel that is similar!. Plus the drug they used to treat the out break was Lam Elisa and who's family isn't gonna show up to a case where there family died? I've always had a strange feeling about this case n now I'm starting to believe she wasn't even a real person!.
A Chinese family. They are deeply embarrassed and unlike non-Asians, aren't OK with airing their dirty laundry in public. Wouldn't have affected the outcome for them to have been there.
As a senior in college studying biochemistry, I’ve always related to the stress and overwhelming feeling that Elisa was experiencing in college. Coupled with the isolation that i often feel in college being away from my family and fiancé, it is really tough. I’ve never spent a weekend at college; I’ve always driven home to see them every weekend. Recently I’ve given myself a day or two every week to have time with my friends and family aside from school. I think there are ways that, in conjunction with medications if needed, one can combat the college depression.
I find the judge's name very eerie. His name is Howard Holmes and there was a famous serial killer named HH Homes (otherwise known as Howard Holmes) whom built a hotel with trap doors, and secret halls, and an entire underground torture chamber. He would take guests in and drug them then use the trap doors to get their body in the basement. What are the odds? Especially with the reports of her acting strange from the room mates and footage. Also there is a comment I saw on another video where a young lady said she was staying in another hotel up the road, and saw Elisa, and noted how odd she seemed to be acting. I strongly feel that this case boils down to money and power ...in your theory video you have nearly the same hypothesis that I have. The only thing I differ with is that I still believe her death originally was from those involved in occult practices that lived there. I hate to go there ... I really do .... but the mix of the forensics, investigation, and occult coincidences behind her death is so glaring. I think I'm going to make a video as well. All this tied with the comment about the judge being a sleeze, and he's a new judge to the case as well? I just feel so bad for her family. It seems as if all the people they were suppose to trust to do the right thing for their daughter just completely gave up. RIP Elisa :(.
+MaidenOfDarkness I wanted to add a few things to this comment. When I bring up the strange occult like coincidences in this case, I'm not trying to be disrespectful to her memory at all. I know there are SO MANY video's out there that point to all the paranormal type hype around this case, and completely cut out any logical thinking, or research into the available reports we have. It seems as if Elisa's case was taken from a murder investigation and pushed right into urban legend land by the media, television, and paranormal enthusiasts. The only reason why I point out these odd occult or creepy coincidences (like with the judge's name) is because with Elisa's case it seems like we have just as many odd coincidences coinciding with occult like ties, as we do with the official police investigation, and the coroner's report. I find this a highly emotional case. I feel so bad that her memory is left with all these questions, and little answers. I feel like they were so quick to be done with this case. Mental illness is a serious thing. Could this have clouded her judgement when going down there to meet someone online? Was the body placed there after the first initial search when she was still a missing person? If she was on the roof during the missing person search the dogs WOULD HAVE surely smelled her clothing which was apparently folded by the tank. Why haven't we heard anything from the room mates she had? If so many people noted her odd behavior how could this be accounted for when in her autopsy there's no drugs? Who did she stay with when she first landed in LA? So many questions. An official trial would have hopefully quelled some of this, and they were so quick to close it all together. I hope her and her family can have some peace.
OH MY GOD!!! i knew i recognised the name Howard holmes! that has to be one of the creepiest parts of this story (although there are many) especially considering this wasn't the original judge AND that woman that worked with him said he was a sadist sex pest(or however she worded it) im not a big believer in supernatural but have a fascination with it. i do however, beleive in coincedence, but there seem to have been an awful lot in this case. please do do a video. i would love to see this side of things set out for us to ponder. gotta say that HH thing made my heart race, there's coincedence then there's downright weird! 😨
Hey, really loved this series it gave a lot of insight to the case. In one of your older videos you mentioned about the video footage being manipulated and why they didn't just show like this tiny bit of her rather than this whole video and parts of it supposedly being edited out. Well, you know how the LAPD's website no longer has the video? I went back into the site's archives and found the video. It's strange because in this released version they only have the footage of her and the part with the elevators is completely cut out, just seems strange that the rest of the video is there when shown later on to the public with that supposed one minute cut out. This is the link if you wanted to check it out web.archive.org/web/20130502003352/www.lapdonline.org/newsroom/news_view/52943 Hope to hear more if the upcoming film creates more controversy!
thanks John for attending the hearing, it was a good report you did for us. There certainly seems a need to be a legal precedent for water tanks to be locked. What if somebody contaminated the water with poison. I think a chance for a law to be made has been missed. best wishes to you and your family for the holidays.
Is it just me, or was the lift video tampered with? When I have watched u tubers in the lift, all 3 walls are mirrored, yet the police footage shows Elisa on a ‘painted’ wall? It’s so obvious, but we are all so busy watching her, we don’t see the obvious. Also, the floor is grey ( not rimmed with a yellow/ gold edge) as previously noted in the released footage... 🧐
Debbie Martinez The guy who made this video visited the hotel, (You should look for that video on his channel). What is important ois that he said that the entrancde to the rooftop was UNLOCKED!
Ok.... A roof top wading pool? That is unnecessary and in very poor taste considering Elisa's case. Here's an idea. Go ahead with a roof top garden and even a bar. Invest in safety measures so no one falls to their death. A wading pool turns my stomach.
One thing that bothers me is when the judge questions the liability of the entire roof and the prosecution says no they aren’t responsible to put fencing up or anything, they could’ve very well said that rather than being responsible for blocking off the entire roof they’re responsible for either making sure their door is locked or their alarm works. To me, it’s clear that the prosecution didn’t have a very confident and well spoken lawyer. I do think it’s an issue on the tanks not legally needing locks, but equally their emergency exit alarms either didn’t work or didn’t exist in some doors and to me that should be enough to blame them for her being able to even access the roof and tanks without getting caught by hotel staff. Had their alarms worked, she would have immediately been followed up there and possibly stopped from doing anything reckless or from being harmed in general. It's horribly sad that this kind of thing can happen because of hotel management negligence and possibly medication contradictions. As someone who's taken a multitude of medicine over my life, I know what it's like to take a pill thinking it'll help you sleep or calm you down and suddenly be thrown into intense hallucinations or a state of almost sedation. Prescription medication is serious, and it can do really awful things, it's sad that in today's culture we're made to think that anything given by a doctor is good for you when frankly that's not true.
just curious if you are an actual detective or are you just really interested in cases? your investigation skills too good for some random guy with a you tube account. either way, you have got yourself a fan here
Thanks Jenny, not an actual detective, but I did a lot of research in my previous career. Same skillset, but instead of inventing technical solutions, I'm now trying to find the truth in all the info that has been presented.
Sounds like everyone just gave up&want this all over with.No family says it all.poor we girl didnt climb up there take all her clothes of open the heavy lid throw the clothes in&jump in then magically pull the lid back in place.She was murdered by someone she met@hotel an employee,maybe one day they'll tell the truth.
I feel sorry for the parents getting no real closure on this. It feels like The hotel didn't acknowledge Elisa's death at all. There are questions her family still need answers too. At the end of the day even though we want to work out what happened, it's the family that are left morning.
I’m very late to this video but when this all originally came out I swear I thought part of the story was that her clothes were off & folded outside the tank resulting in her being found nude in the tank. Now I see that part nowhere.
We the people ,Dang it we all should have gone,or sent something with John previously organized,sorry you guys,I'm still reeling we could of filled those seats.we could reach out to her attorney??Appeal this,as citizens?we need super powers I'm thinking,or is it enough like one of the comments below that read we've all held her close in our hearts where most leave this world unnoticed?maybe pick a star for Her in the sky and try to shake this feeling??Again I apologize,just sad at the lack of the opportunity for a trial
you dnt think that maybe she met one of the long time residents who she liked and he told her that they always go up on the roof to party and 'swim' in the tanks so he told her to meet him on the roof snd go skinny dipping with him? he ended up standing her up, realized he hadn't seen kr heard from her in a while goes up to the roof and sees her clothed laying be the tanks, realises she got into the tank and couldnt get out (she didnt know the usual things they did to prevent getting stuck inside like ladder or having other ppl help you out from thr outside) and drowned. In fear he just grabs her clothes and throws them inside the tank w her and hopes no one notices?? thats the most logical explanation i can come up with...
For me, the most telling aspect of this case is Elisa's family's acceptance of the accidental death verdict. Her family knew her better than anyone, they knew her all her life. While most of us find Elisa's behaviour in the elevator video very strange and unusual, I suspect that her family recognised her behaviour and had seen her act this way before. They obviously accepted that she would have been capable of getting into the water tank by herself, however unlikely that might seem to the rest of us.
Perhaps her family were contacted by aliens and asked to keep quiet so as not to upset interplanetary relations. That would also explain "why her family went with the ''accidental death'' verdict. Your turn .........................
first of all the video is being heavily edited so that it looks like it's odd/weird behavior... secondly, behavior analyzers analyzed her behavior and stated that no fear or anxiety was shown in the video but she had a happy attitude and felt sexualy active for a person that either was present in the hallway or she was thinking about him... I have all the legal proof for my evidence and my sources exist and are reliable,althought I don't claim to find the answer I can support easily my above statements.
I think this is good for closure with this case. It was a tragic accident. Could measures have been taken that may have prevented it? Yes, but learning from it and creating new building codes that prevent it from happening again, should be the next actions in my opinion.
I understand why the prosecution said it would be too much of a burden to ask the hotel to secure the rooftop, if you search for "Incêndio no Edifício Joelma" (Fire on Joelma's Edifice) you see that in the past in my country there was a famous fire and lots of people died, but the ones who survived were mostly saved -after the fire got big- through the rooftop. The rooftop is a really important emergency "gate", to ask the hotel to lock the way to the rooftop but still have a way were people would go there if there was a fire would be ridiculous hard. I think the fact there is a movie about this (and it has the japanese and the american version, which means is somewhat a hit), shows that actually can happen more than people think, so yeah, I agree the judge may have stopped to protect people from future harm and even free hotels or edifices from the responsability in similar cases - past cases are often mentioned in jury. I dont think there was really something wrong with the medication because antipsychotics do have quite a lot of side effects, specially if you are not taking them for really long and its really used (I've been using them for more than 3 years and I'm still a quite a zombie because of them). But I also want to know about Canada position, I mean, someone from their country died in another country, dont they have any say in this?
Not too sure if you have seen this post or not. I noticed a couple of photos Ive not seen before, although it seems to be mostly the same information. ymbdad.blogspot.com.au/2015/01/everyday-strange-elisa-lam-part-i.html?m=1
I have to go back to the fact that a police search with police dogs on the roof failed to locate her, yet she was found there later. To me the only plausible explanation for this discrepancy was that the body wasn't there when the roof was searched. It's nigh impossible the dogs don't find the body if it was actually there at the time. "When you eliminate the impossible; whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." It was also mentioned that there was some sort of conflict that lead to her being moved from a group accommodation to a different room by herself, which she seemingly never actually spent a night in. I believe there was some sort of incident as a result of this conflict, (it sounds to me like this was a group of people with mental conditions that she was staying with initially), that lead to her death, and then her body was dumped in the tank after the police search. You might want to see what the Freedom of Information Act can get you.
So the killer removed the body from the hotel, only to bring it back after the police were gone, carried it up a fire escape and several ladders, removed the clothing from the body, threw them in the tank and then fit the body in there, all while not bruising or otherwise damaging the body and attracting no attention ?
+SimplyMadness The body was found over 2 weeks after her disappearance. While post-mortem bruising is possible, I think it's highly unlikely to occur if she had been deceased for even half that time. (I'm certainly no medical expert, so by all means correct me if I'm wrong.) Secondly, the police searched the roof with the dogs, but they did NOT search the entirety of the hotel. I'm only suggesting the body wasn't on the roof at the time the police searched it, but it's still possible the body was somewhere else in the hotel in an area that wasn't searched. Given the history of the hotel, the staff/owners wouldn't want details of yet another nefarious death to be public knowledge; thus they would have good reason to hide the facts and know where to stow the body where a police search wouldn't find it. Still, at the very least my theory is still more plausible than suggesting police dogs that were on the roof couldn't find the body if it was there at the time of the search.
+foodandwater1 Dogs only have trouble with scents in water when there are currents, which obviously there are none here, and water moving through the pipe system would not replicate that scenario.. The only other thing that might hamper dogs is if there were a cleaning agent in the water, but this was a tank for drinking water, so those type of chemicals shouldn't be present. Sometimes fluoride is used in drinking water, but even if they did use fluoride I don't think it's a strong enough chemical to prevent dogs from getting the scent.
+foodandwater1 regular dogs might. Cadaver dogs are basically professional sniffers. Not much deters them They should've smelled that dead lady floating on the water. It would have been so foul, you might have smelled it. The lid was off, remember.
My $.02, she was being playful (what at first creeped me to the core because of the lack of context) with someone that she had met but was off screen of the camera. He was a resident of the hotel and took her to the roof after a night out. She would have had to ride that elevator up to the 14th floor, where is that footage? She was meeting her new friend there so that he could show her the roof and take a dip (best way to impress a friendly odd girl in the middle of a city "I know a secret place!"). They were inebriated in some way, played around the hallways and elevator (she is flirty playful and not scared) went to the roof, had sex on the gravelly ground (debris in the clothing) and jumped into the tank for a skinny dip. He got out, she was passed out or wanted to stay for a bit (on drugs and in a sensory deprivation tank is hypnotizing), by the time he looked in on her she was unresponsive and he panicked, tossed in her things and that's that. It's the guy in the hotel surrounded by empty bottles of water because he knows what those tanks are for. When you are young, exploring your independence, not fully stable, and feeling that you are on the adventure of your life, even recklessness seems halfhearted. Chasing fun and adventure mixed with strangers, drugs and an uneven keel leads to bad things, not necessarily because of bad people. She haunts me, not because of weirdness but because she left without a reason or goodbye.
you are so right about psych drugs. I have worked as a mental health worker in State Hospital and privately. There are people who are very very sick and need those drugs however in my experience they have limited success and cause horrific side effects. I am amazed when I hear people taking powerful drugs as a first option. I believe the medical doctors and pharmacy companies are hand in hand pushing these potent drugs to anyone who wants them, for profits. There is a big difference between serious mental illness and people having a rough patch in their life. Yes, I agree with you, don't run for the meds first try another way to cope with your problems. I am not a doctor just want people to know the truth about these drugs before they take them. I have seen some tragic effects of their use, and I don't believe doctors are being careful prescribing them. Having said that there are some that are so sick I believe the drugs are worth taking. Again not a doctor just years of experience dispensing these drugs and watching the effects short and long term. Lastly, nervous about breaking HIPPA laws so won't say much else.
btw I don't know where you're from :), but here in NYC Only a psychiatrist can prescribe Bi polar meds. Three people I know are on Serequel (same as Elisa) and Colonipin (however you spell it) all Bi polar meds and they only got them from psychiatrists who first put them into therapy to determine if they need to be on them!
+Katrina M.B Hi Katrina.. I don't believe there is anything to stop General Practitioners from attempting to treat bi-polar disorder and prescribing those medications. She is also from Canada, and I'm not certain if things are more strict or even more loose there. Here's an article talking about it (and backing your point that you really should have a psychiatrist treating bi-polar disorder). natashatracy.com/bipolar-disorder/general-practitioners-gps-treating-bipolar/
Truly a heart breaking case. Excellent research , and content presented in your videos. I still feel there are issues at hand here, mainly the edited , and manipulated footage from the elevator camera. And a hand writing comparison between Elisa's and the graffiti found on the roof top. The rest i can't speculate upon, it is possible she was severely depressed , and made the choice to end her own life. The TB outbreak , and the Lam Eliza vaccine , are possibly just coincidence. The film "Dark Water" 2002, , with a very similar plot line , and main characters "Dahlia (see black Dahlia), and Ceci", also perhaps mere coincidence ? Interestingly , if you check out Dr. James Cottrell's DTM(deep trance meditation), very similar to Edgar Cayce readings on the issue, he sees other entities involved, and they are using thought manipulation technology upon the subject. This is something that could possibly relate to the "ILA connection, and its connection to Raytheon , a weapons manufacturer. That all i got , would love to have some testimonials from the other patrons in the shared room, as to her behaviour , that led to her being moved to her own room. A room as stated that she did not spend the night in. I agree this case leaves one with few resolutions , and leaves one feeling rather empty, many condolences to the family and friends of a young woman who left the world to early .
I'm still confused about some dates. The court documents all say she made reservation for Jan 28th for 3 days. That would make her stay the 28, 29, and 30. Then check out 31 correct? Why is all the elevator footage from Feb 1 ??
John, Elisa was murdered by an employee or x-employee from the hotel who had keys and who knew or knows every single corner of the hotel. No one has mentioned that the water in the tank during January and February would have been extremely cold making it less then impossible for anyone to want to dive right into freezing waters! When this girl was moving her hands....she was talking to someone....explaining something to someone. There was someone out there "keeping busy" yet following her everywhere she would go....this is the reason for her poking her head as she did as well as hiding in the corner as if she did not want him to see her, should he pass by the elevator. The murderer may very well still be working at the hotel even to this day!
+Sword The water in the tank might not have been cold. This was in Los Angeles. I looked up weather history for Los Angeles on and around that day. Highs of 72 and lows of 60. The water might have actually been warm, being in a metal tank sitting on top of a roof in sunlight would warm it up quite a bit. Enough for someone to say hey i think i will go for a swim.
zudemaster Com'on my friend. January and February....the water was cold not matter how much sun there might have been that day...the wind was chilly for sure and therefore the water in the tank was NOT warm at all. She did not know the place. The idea of swimming did not occur to her and therefore she decided to walk upward in the building to go for a swim in the water tank. This girl was murdered by one of the employees that is for sure....it will come out to light sooner or later....it was an employee with keys and with very good knowledge as far as the building is concerned.
Ok, lets just say you are right. She was murdered by some employees of the hotel. Now no offense to anyone working those types of jobs, but those are minimum wage-low skilled type jobs. The kind of jobs that people with little education or skills do. I just have a hard time believing such a person would be capable of somehow pulling one over on highly trained police detectives investigating the crime. And such a person would not have the money, connections or resources to pay off the police either. They would have left some clues, some tracks leading back to them. They always do. Hiding a body in a water tank of a public building actually would be a very dumb move by a murderer who just so happens to work there. It would eventually be found-as it was. I say the girl was whacked. She was snooping around the building for whatever reason, somehow ended up on the roof where she found those tanks. Jumped in and could not get out.
+zudemaster You said it my friend. Those employees are not with the highest education at all but street smart enough to hide the body in a place that would decompose her pretty quick! Honestly, I don't think the investigators went out of their way to find out more about the case. They settled for the idea of the girl relinquished as a "Cucu" case. I'm sure this girl was talking to someone when she was moving her hands from the elevator door. There is someone out there....he might have already moved on in his life and does not work there anymore...but there is someone out there who carries her blood in his hands.
And amazing work by the way!! I found this channel after looking through some old information on the Kendrick Johnson case a few days ago. Such amazing, thorough work you do on this channel!!
Odd. The judge noted that Elisa had to climb a ten foot ladder on the side of a water tank, yet the employee who discovered her had to bring his own ladder as there were no ladders affixed to the sides of the tanks. Hmmm.
I agree and that is why I thought it was fishy. It was also mentioned that the Maintenance guy checks the Water tank and the Roof weekly, if this is true then why did it take 3 weeks to discover the body? From the Police Perspective, they might have missed it but the maintenance guy should have noticed that the latch is open
@@chrisp7110 I'm not so sure about that. The maintenance man would be checking the pressure valves at the roof level that seem to be nestled in the middle of the four tanks. He would have no need to actually climb those tanks unless he saw some kind of errant reading on those gauges.
@Royce Wallace There was a staircase that led upto the roof above the water tanks, it was possible to jump onto the top of the water tanks without needing a ladder. Although it would still be very risky to do such a jump, as the drop from the roof to the tanks would still be around a 9 foot drop.
I'm still not buying it. I know that area too well & what goes on in/around it. No one "accidentally" climbs onto the roof of a hotel, then up a water tower ladder, then removes the tank lid & sashays into its dark, wet insides, on or off meds. It would take at least a bit of stealth & forethought. At the very least, I'd consider it suicide on her part & definitely negligence on the hotel's regarding its safety policies, roof access, & unlocked water supply. The Cecil has always been shady, like the majority of it's 1920's-era competitors Downtown; they don't care what goes on inside the rooms so long as they get paid & you keep it behind closed doors. But Elisa did not. She was roaming the halls & stairwells & creeping around so called 'off limits" areas in ways that should have sparked someone's attention, be it staff or a resident or some random street fiend, looking for a quick buck. I find it hard to believe that she ended up in that tank accidentally & unseen. Either she killed herself or someone lent her a hand, and I don't mean no otherworldly one, either. But, no matter now. Money talks. Billionaire investors grease palms. Law enforcement stays mum. Medical examiners write it off. And the judge shuts it down. Just another questionable death Downtown. My condolences to her friends and family, & to those who wanted at least a modicum of justice on her behalf. R.I.P. Ms. Lam.
+TheSWolfe Many good points, and I definitely acknowledge that there may still be more to this case than her parents, or their legal team understand.
+GeekenDorx My biggest ? is what was she doing staying @ the Cecil in the 1st place? I know the Downtown, Skid Row/Rescue Mission area has been somewhat gentrified since I lived there, but the underbelly remains intact, & it is crusty & infectious even for its street-smart inhabitants. The recently created galleries, sushi-bars, & upscale clubs are, for the most part, window-dressing for the elite to hit when they get the urge to go "slumming", then they head back to Glendale or Hollywood or wherever they really live once the party's over. Don't know much about the new condo set. I guess they just enjoy spending exorbitant amounts of cash to live dangerously. But Elisa, being not only an out-of-towner, but a young greenhorn from another country, wouldn't know about any of this. All I can figure is, the Cecil's recent facelift campaign, falsely billing it as the safe, new, trendy spot for young up & comers to patronize, caught her eye when she was looking for an affordable place to stay & maybe meet up with some fellow travelers in her own age-set. And we all know how that turned out. Shame on them yet again, for sucking this hapless young woman in with their treacherous advertising spin. If only she had done some homework on the hood & establishment before committing. Some vacation.
+TheSWolfe I agree. I don't think it was suicide. I think she was murdered. It's possible that she wasn't in the tank when they originally took the dogs up there. Perhaps an employee or a resident there had her hidden in a room or somewhere inside the hotel. Then after the search and because of the search, the killer or killers took her up there. Ruling this an accident or suicide just seems bizarre, and it reminds me of the Spraekels mansion case where police came to the conclusion that Rebecca Zahau hanged herself from the balcony with her hands and feet bound (hands behind her back) and a gag in her mouth, naked as well. The husband was a rich pharmaceutical CEO.
I recall the Zahau case, & yes, she must've been some contortionist to pull that one off! As for Elisa, your theory's sound. Consider murder, or assault of some kind accidentally resulting in death; either way, you've a corpse on your hands. Not everyone staying there has a vehicle, & even if he/she/they did, they'd be hard-pressed to get her down the stairs/elevator & out the bldg. to the pkng lot unseen. Up is easier than down in that case. Couldn't keep her in a room unnoticed for too long--the stench of decay is a powerful thing. So, to the roof she winds up, but what to do w/her now that she's there? The tanks would be the only place her body could be fully concealed & unnoticed, at least long enough for the perps to clear out, or until the water turned foul. And even then, they needn't necessarily leave. Immersion in water & putrefaction would remove any chance of detecting prints on her person. For all we know, if it was foul play & not suicide, those responsible might still be living there, snug as bedbugs in a bloodstained rug. The Cecil holds many secrets, that would just be one more.
IF she did kill herself.... Its not the hotels fault. You can NOT stop people from committing suicide if they make up their mind on doing it... And if she was "off her meds" Well thats not the hotels fault. Shes not a child ... I am tired of the nanny state putting blame on others for peoples actions. This being said I think foul play was involved ... why get naked and jump into a water tank when you can just jump off the roof ?
I would have been really interested to hear from the people who shared her initial room before she was moved to a private. It does just seem like there is so much more to look into here.
This was pretty disheartening but was very interesting to hear what Elisa's family believed happened (or at least what they were saying happened for the case Against Cecil). I know that this is going over VERY old ground, but the one thing that I will always be extremely frustrated over in this case is the edited and slowed down footage. The fact it was never explained why this happened and who was responsible was naturally going to attract a massive amount of speculation and conspiracy theorists to the case. Maybe if that footage was released in it's full and non-slowed state it would have made people accept a more rational explanation but as it wasn't, made the whole thing a circus with talks of ghosts, being possessed, rituals, etc. This was a young woman that had her life tragically cut short, and even though it would have attracted less media (pretty much every other video I have seen on the case has made it out to be supernatural), it would have at least had the case portrayed in the very 'real life tragedy' way that Elisa deserved as a human being.
Great stuff, John! I like many others first found your channel through the Elisa series, and if this really is the last entry in it, I just want to say that you have done an amazing job in turning what most see as a spooky horror story into a sensible and respectful discussion.
+Veggie Gamer Yes, but consider the idea: why was the footage released at all? Elisa was considered a missing person originally, and the footage was completely useless in helping the public figure out her whereabouts. Why would the police and media release a doctored video they, allegedly, believed showed a missing person? Something was covered up in the case even if it actually had nothing to do with Elisa's death.
+Veggie Gamer Thanks so much Veggie Gamer. I may do a tribute video to her, and I guess there is the chance that the family will appeal the decision. I'll certainly keep an eye on things.
Have a great one,
John
This story and the disappearance of Maura Murray break my heart. It's so sad to watch that video of Elisa knowing what was about to happen and just wishing you could go back in time and reach out to stop it. It still bothers me that there may be other footage that exists that hasn't been shown of the stairwells, exits, parking lot etc. I mean really what was the purpose of releasing only the elevator video? I used to work at a hotel and we had motion detection cameras recording every exit. So if she never gets back on the elevator and isn't seen leaving the hotel on the other cameras, as a matter of deduction, they should have absolutely KNOWN at that point something happened to her. It's a gruesome thing to say but either A) her body was still in the hotel or B) someone had taken her body out of the hotel in a suitcase. The hotel and law enforcement should have searched the hotel as a potential crime scene until they found some evidence of foul play or until they found her body.
The hotel was negligent if for no other reason than they knew the roof was basically what would be considered like an attractive nuisance in personal property liability. They knew people had been going up to the roof, did nothing to prevent it and yet still failed to find her body afterwards.
+villainsrule i agree
+GeekenDorx thanks for another great impartial analysis. My heart "wants" this to be as it has been reported - a tragic accident - it seems preferrable to the "boogey-man or haunted hotel" alternative. However my head is saying something else entirely because there are way too many still unanswered questions.
Firstly of course there is still the unexplained manipulated, sped up footage with a full minute apparently edited out. Then there is the fact that the poor girl was naked suggesting that she took her clothes off and entered the tank herself (if there was no boogeyman) rather than having, say bumped her head and fallen in, which could explain the next point... the fact that she had no water in her lungs.
Then there is the presence of the sandlike substance that was found on her clothing, nothing of the like being found on the roof or in the immediate vicinity.
I haven't been back to reread the autopsy report again so my memory is hazy around this part, however I do recall the report stated that she had suffered a prolapsed anus. I am not sure how this injury could occur aside from sexual assault, maybe there is a way this can happen in other circumstances in which I'm wrong in pointing this out to be unexplained.
Those things are concrete items that are glaringly unexplained and going by those alone I really don't feel like we are getting the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth from the authorities here. If those points had been satisfactorily laid to rest I could possibly forget the other smaller, more coincidental circumstances such as Elisa's tweet about the invisibility cloaks and the close proximity of the Invisible Light Company, the hotel employee who states that Elisa was seen in the presence of several men who gave her a mysterious box in the hotel lobby, and the "coincidence" of the Lam Elisa TB testing kit that had been/was being used in the neighbourhood as well as the anomalous social media entries and apparent lack of any other photos of Elisa apart from the two or three that we have been shown by the news media.
To cap it off, the announcement that they are to put a swimming pool on the roof where she died. This is sheer insult at worst and total thoughtlessness at best. Since I do not see how someone could NOT have realised how distasteful it would be to put a pool up there, it seems like it is a deliberate insult.
It's a bit odd that the judge was changed as well, and apparently the new judge is a sex offender.
Nothing about this case sits well at all with me and I really do wish it did because I don't like to think that the poor girl suffered any more than she apparently did if we are to believe the official line. But it's just all so wrong. But it doesn't look like anybody, including her parents, are willing to push it any further so I doubt we are ever going to see justice done if it does need doing.
Such a weird case overall. All I can say is the prosecution dropped the ball and the whole case was handled completely wrong.
Roesch -4- Broward County Sheriff what are you talking about clearly someone did this to her no way she accidentally went to the roof lost her phone took all her clothes off climbed a water tank and jumped in
So bizarre how uninvolved the family is.
+Cameron Brwdway This is my #1 problem with the entire story, and I don't understand why it's continually glossed over. It's as if she and everyone she knew popped into existence just for this thing to happen, then completely vanished. These parents have literally not said a single word publicly or ever appeared outside of a brief background cameo on the news. And I deliberately use the word "cameo" because I believe that at least some percentage of this story is a performance. They DON'T EVEN SHOW UP to court? Her entire family just couldn't make it, huh?
+Ryan Pennington
you have to understand, that the family is Chinese, and they are naturally a lot more reserved and private (also embarrassed at what Americans and othere Westerners think nothing of).
They try to keep everything and themselves much more low key. They might already have felt like strangelt with all that media attention about their daughter, and her being emotionally/mentally ill isn't normally something they would have liked to advertise for the whole world to know.
I mean, fair enough, to that point. I can cop to possibly being ignorant to cultural differences. I can also admit to taking this story a bit personally. I connected with it emotionally because - if what we're being told is true - I share some of the same disorders Ms. Lam had and, in fact, take the same amount of medication she did. Some being EXACTLY THE SAME medication. Once all was said and done with this story, I felt overwhelmingly duped. Not disappointed - duped. Not by Mr. Lordan, but by whoever authored (what I saw as) the fiction, and I took personal offense to that.
For sure -- what's the point in even having a court case if you won't show up to fight for your daughter's loss of life and make a positive example of this (at least prevent something like this from maybe happening again). I don't buy it; I almost don't buy it. It's either foul play, something's really odd happened, or it's not even a real case -- that whole court case just sounds like an f---ing charade! Judge just there to dismiss the dismissal of the Lam family. Why? What's the point? It's like they're just carrying out the charade, and if John and reporters hadn't have gone it would have presumably gone ahead as this routine-charade just because it needed to be dealt with - done and dusted. It's too weird and I'm pretty upset about it as well, Ryan. It's something that disturbed me and didn't sit right with me back then that month of 2013 when I heard about it. Just caught up with John's BrainScratch videos on the case which I've been meaning to watch for a couple of years. Well researched, as much as they can be by him or any of us, good questions, good points, by him and in the comments, as well as a load of frustrating speculation, cloudiness, but by the end it's such a pointless exercise. Swimming pools! What a joke. That's what it amounts to. Life goes on. That's the symbol.
I was going to say, "well they do live in another country" ... But Vancouver is actually a pretty short flight to LA
So she was seen with two men? Kind of suspicious if you ask me. They could of painted a better picture of what Elisa did that night if we had their interviews...if they interviewed them. Funny how this case ends up in the Cecils favor when a new buyer is about. The whole thing is suspect, and trying to be swept under the rug. Your original theory about the suspicious nature of Elisa identity being fabricated can still be valid as well since the most important to their family is happening and they didn't even show up.
Bill Em I've read that on January 31st, last day she was seen, she went to a local bookstore and some employees helped her carry her purchases back to the hotel. I can't verify this but it sounded plausible the places I've seen it. I've wondered if these are the men she was seen with. Especially since some stories say they gave her something.
my gut still tells me there is a lot more to this case than a girl missing her meds. I think the family took this approach per legal advice they were given and lacking any hard evidence at their disposal.
I agree!
"Accidental death"...After everything is said and done, I still think it unreasonable to think that Elisa had a mental breakdown, accessed the roof and got into the watertank herself (without a ladder). She would also have had to remove all her clothes while still on the roof, then get to the water tank opening, drop the clothes into the tank before jumping in herself.
Those factors combined with her phone vanishing, makes me still believe this is a murder case.
Completely AGREE with you. TY
Agreed!! There are way too many sketchy details..out of all the cameras there I cannot believe that not one caught something other than the elevator shenanigans..of course I don't know and am no expert..but you do not need to be to realize something sinister happened to her..if she had some kind of psychological breakdown there would be no reason to tamper with the footage, if it was indeed tampered with that is..if it wasn't an employee maybe it is possible it was a cover up..trying to escape accountability if there was a person(s) with a criminal background staying there and they knew and didn't want to face more bad press..or face any kind of negligence charges..idk either way it is horrid...the missing phone is very telling in my opinion...and her repeatedly pushing buttons and looking out as if she was anxious about something or someone.
***** that is very possible..one scenario I haven't thought of! Since I commented I've found out there actually is more footage the police just won't release it evidently...they said it shows her in the lobby I believe with 2 men and they said one was holding a box...could be for several reasons..as you stated she could have been having some kind of episode and maybe the person realized and offered to carry a box she was carrying for her so he could take advantage and gain access to her room easily
The only explainable theory for accidental death IMHO. She goes to the roof, sees the tank open because some stupid staff member may have left it open, due to a manic high, she thinks it's a good idea to go skinny dipping. Accidentally drowns, someone closes the tank (may or may not have seen her body). Her cell phone she could have lost at anytime, or someone stole it before she went missing.
+Amy Darling the Whole thing is fake
This case really got to me. Whatever happened to her, I think, is the hotels fault, or at least the hotels fault that we don't know what happened to her.
I'm quite sad that this was thrown out.
The Hotel alarmed one door for a reason. It's dangerous to be up there. Someone could be hurt up there and the hotels water supply could easily be accessed.
The Lam's had a poor legal team.
We also live in a society where it is really easy for sadist psychopaths to gain seats of authority & power.
Wow, that last statement of the guy who bought the hotel. The blatant disrespect for her. Thank you for continuing this story.
What a big shame police couldnt find out what happened to this young lady!? Theres always someone who knows something!!!
Come on police do your job.
After reviewing tons of footage online... I believe there's way more to this story. Lots of college age people go on trips by themselves and explore she seemed very intelligent and self aware of here own circumstancs. She knew and planned her trip she definitely was going to Northern Cali next, bought books in such for family at a bookstore near Cecil...she was very independent, self assured, knew what she was doing planning for her trip. Normal adventurous stuff for a woman of her age. I believe if she never stayed at the Cecil she would be alive n well today... Everything went well until she came to that hotel...shes pretty, alone, young, in a seedy area of Los Angeles. She could not have picked a worse hotel or location.. But that's not her fault.... She just dident know the area obviously ..i feel a crime was commited and that elevator incident says alot... Not to discount the meds, but i feel that plays no factor in her death..that elevator scene says alot. A scared young woman.. She obviously did not fit in this environment, naive, a prettyn classy woman alone at the Cecil...someone or something made her uncomfortable... Clearly. That is not from her meds....she was able to function just fine on her trip according to socialmedia. Remember this all took place at that rancid horrible area... N hotel... I believe this needs to be reinvestigated....everything was okay up until she stayed there. So sad n heartbreaking... I hope they find the killer and or what she was so afraid of. ...because that was not medication behavior something was happening... To her that was totally out of character. R.I P. Elisa may justice be served.
Another video documentary on this case mentioned an odd fact that seems to be overlooked -- that Elisa's room was actually on the 4th floor and this elevator scene happened on the 14th floor. It also mentioned that hotel short-stay guests are given the lower floors, and the long-time residents have the upper floors. This means that it is possible Elisa was visiting someone on the 14th floor, the room of a long-term resident, and this elevator scene was her trying to return to her room on the 4th floor. This means that someone somewhere needs to get a list of the long-term residents of that floor and question them concerning their alibis that night. It IS a hotel/residence known to inhabit people of questionable pasts and presents, so someone somewhere knows what happened and is not coming forward. This aspect needs to be investigated further.
Can you link the video documentary by chance?
+ducc764 ..........let me see if I can find it among the hundreds.......
flowergirlinWard17 I LITERALLY think this comment is THE key... Because a longtime resident would know where the cameras are, where to avoid being seen with her, how to get to the rooftop from the fire escape (possibly) without triggering the alarm by going through the door (even though that alarm seems not to reliably-function...) The LAPD also never checked EVERY room unless they "had reason to suspect", which meant that they could have checked Elisa's old and new rooms, and maybe the 2 "bad-water-quality rooms" that the maintenance guy checked, and then very well skipped an upper-floor resident's room...
Also, I think the "Fecto Cunt Her Suma" graffiti has more to do with the case than we might think; obviously someone has gotten onto the roof in 2012 and dated that particular graffiti (that jumbled order version of the "Her Suma" phrase), and then in EARLY 2013 we find it again (although undated) and very-near a recently-deceased female body??? It just seems too weird. I think a resident or a grifter who was VERY familiar with wandering the hotel, wrote those, and likely had something to do with it.
What was she doing ten floors up from her room? That's so strange
I agree completely. That was why it was extremely odd. Since several serial killers are staying at the hotel around the time, it made it more obvious
The only thing left that's really unexplained for me is if she walked on then climbed about on the roof and into the tanks how comes the police dogs didn't pick up any scent and why weren't there any of her finger prints found on the ladders or tank lid or even on the inside of the hotel fire escape window..?
Alastair she didnt go there alone. will explain in a video soon -
Robin, I agree and I don't believe she used the external fire escape to access the roof as the last section of the ladder onto the roof is vertical and without back protection meaning if you slip you could easily fall to the ground. This would be scary to the majority of people in my opinion. We know a lot of people were accessing the roof and it appears the internal roof access door alarm wasn't working so perhaps someone suggested they both go up together. I take it you're suggesting she was placed in the tank by someone else?
Yes, not placed forced.
So in your opinion was she forced to climb the ladder onto the elevator maintenance room then drop down onto the tank or did she climb a removable ladder placed against the tank? Either way if she was forced to into the tank she would have left forensic evidence behind?
Will explain in our video. However in answering your questions. She went through the alarmed door, not alone.
Why would there be forensic evidence left behind? There was a ladder against the tank she was found in Alastair. That ladder had been there many moons, wooden the removable one as you state This would have been used, either way if she jumped in herself or walked up it under duress - either way forensics. She was found 3 weeks later, what makes anyone think the LAPD checked the ladder? They never checked the tanks. We can all forget about forensics.. by the way most of what we have established is not just "made up" so to speak, no wild theories. You have to find out about the whole trip not just the ending.
Means / Motive / Method.
Who had the means?
What was their motive?
What was the method?
Thank you for your questions Alastair, she did not fall of her medication. That was not the reason for her sad death.
how would she even know that water tanks are up there? i would just think the water comes out the ground like everyone else. so my question is how would she have crawled into a water tank and drown if she didn't even know about the tanks in the first place, even in a psychosis the thought of water tanks on the roof should not have been in her head
She was a college student staying there for a few days, I'm sure someone had shown her a way up there for a night of drinking or something.
+Shaun Mackay You can't conceive of a scenario where she is perusing the hotel and tries to get to the roof. Once she's up there she sees the water tanks and gets in? (If we're going on the theory that it was an accident).
Maybe it's not as well known as I thought. Almost every taller building you walk past will have water towers.
The comment about the wading pool in that area is just plain creepy.
+Treva2000 I totally agree.
Maybe a hot tub better Suited. Relaxation. People vacationing enjoy such things. Something about rooftops and hot water and beautiful night skies. The pool is a good idea also. Just not sure how sound the structure. Would hate for another incident to happen. The hotel doesn't need any more horror. Should do their best to move on.
I`ve spent many years working in the concrete industry calibrating scales which ahs sometime involved standing on top of silos that have lids that are not hinged.
Yet they are locked by 2, 3 or 4 bolts with large wing nuts secured together by a chain hooked through a hole in 2 opposing nuts that contain holes and are secured by padlocks.
So to say they aren't lockable because they are not hinged is TOTAL RUBBISH.
Those padlocks as mentioned above prevent those nuts from being turned until the padlock is unlocked allowing each nut to rotate 360 degrees and eventually falling away.
On a side note I was doing my apprenticeship in the late 80`s when a bunch of people became very ill requiring hospitalization.
The finding - arsenic poisoning by someone I knew in the next workshop that didn't like being given instruction by his superiors.
Consequently he poured a box of rat poison into the urn that people were drinking from while making their coffee.
The lid was essentially an " UNLOCKED " dust cover and the urn was automatically filled by a valve mechanism.
Having those lids on those water tanks ( unlocked ) would not only allow a similar thing to happen to everyone but the issue of sunlight causing bacterial issues like meningitis etc should also be a basic justification for having locked lids.
On this basis alone I would call the Cecil Hotel negligent.
If they were aware of others trespassing in the past they didn't take adequate measures to prevent this situation from happening in the first place.
I'm like you, I wish they would have a full trial. I still think it's kind of BS about her having a psychotic break. I just have a feeling something worse happened to her. I could be wrong, but that's just what is in my heart.
I don't feel any sense of closure from the judge's decision at all.. it just feels like there are so many aspects of this case that have been ignored in court, like do we even know how she got up there in the first place? Is there any security footage from the stairwell to the roof or on the fire escapes? Like has the family seen this and know Elisa got up there on her own or has the potential for foul play been completely ignored?
Crylo_Ren so blaming the hotel would give you closure? The hotel should pad all corners and remove all sharp objects because someday they may hurt someone? Instead of asking the government to turn your world into a safe space, Why not ask why they didn't put a bell around her neck? Because they're both stupid questions. Bad things happen.
Brandon Clark What are you on about? OP didn't even mention blaming the hotel for anything, he just asked whether the hotel has any security footage of Lam on her way up the roof, and for me personally "Bad things happen" is not a good enough explanation to her case
The prosecution was horrible!
Agreed
Wow that's disappointing to hear.
What worries me the most is that theoreticaly anyone could have access to the watertanks. What if people they put something like poisen in there.
Give me a break, anything can be poisoned. Why are people so afraid of everything now. ( oh yea, terrorism) People can be evil or good, but to take every precaution not to get poisoned or killed you must lock yourself in a box. Theoretically anyone can crash into us and kill us. Anyone can get a weapon and kill one of us at any moment.
+Lukas T At least we know they have now added locks to them. It's just a shame there wasn't some building code enforcement to make that happen prior to Elisa's visit.
+GeekenDorx Not to mention setting a precedence for what is obviously a huge problem. There is no explanation here that is acceptable. Suicidal, on drugs or not, all the available information means nothing when compared to a safe environment in which Elisa could have gotten help and not ended up in a water tank.
The hotel is responsible for her death. I don't care how it happened. To not have that door locked and not having an alarm on it, let alone the water tank not having a lock and even an alarm. I believe you could get a water tank with an alarm. Imagine if someone could get the lock off and put something in the water? To not have an alarm that would alert someone about it, to arrest them, and clean the water. Same thing with the water being contaminated. If there isn't an alert that something got in the water and it's not at the right setting, then what good is it. I wonder how much her family has either been told or their knowledge on how things should work.
Let us learn to love one another more, including those among us who are lost and are having problems finding their own way for whatever reasons. Mental illness often rears its ugly head once the adolescent has transitioned into his or her adult body. That is frequently why so many young college adults "break down." Mental illness is highly likely a medically based illness. Let us express more compassion toward one another. Please consider it. Thank you and thank you for your coverage of this tragic tale. RIP Elisa. May you find the joy that you once sought on this earth.
Thank you John for going to the court session. I tend to agree with you that Eliza deserved more than 1 mind to decide her and families fate.
To me something still feels off and I can't quite put my finger on it. Wish I could figure it out.
still want this case to reopen
The Lam's attorney HAD to say that, because they are suing the hotel. They wanted to move focus from the mystery to the lack of hotel security! NO ONE can say for sure exactly what happened to her. Her tox-screen, and pill bottle indicated that she kept up with her medication...plus a day of skipped Bi polar meds doesn't equal immediate break. It would take a while for the meds in her system to "wear off" and for her to have a break. Plus there was No indication of her wanting to stop her meds. she already booked and planned out a trip, it wasn't the last stop of her trip. She also was so cautious of taking her meds that she got extra at her pharmacy because she was going away. She was searching for happiness, not for a way out so there wouldn't even be a reason for her to not take her meds.
Exactly. The police like to close cases as my cousin tells me. He's a detective and says reflects bad on the lapd when they aren't able to close cases quickly, and would do anything to never reopen a case cause it shows their mistakes. Just like I'm Kurt Cobains case, when there are no witnesses and mysterious, suspicious deaths...they go with the easiest way out and close the case. I think you're right about the lawyer, seems to me like the family is too scared to come to the states maybe truly believing in posession
True
kessie garcia yes it was extremely weird for them not to show. You may be right, they may very well believe in the conspiracy.
***** yup!!
+Katrina M.B I totally agree!
Three years ago today, Elisa Lam passed away.....rest in peace my dear. (:>(
8...
8 years now REST IN PEACE TO ELISA LAM WHO JUST WANTED TO GET ON WITH HER LIFE GOD BLESS HER SOUL AMD EVERY OTHER'S WHO HAVE PASSED AWAY FROM ALL TIME!
I do believe Elisa may have had mental issues as a young girl in her 20's, but dismissing any concerns regarding a possibility of murder in such an outright "because I said so" way seems like a rush to judgment to me. Yes, she wasn't killed by a "boogeyman", but using that term makes it sound as if they are belittling anyone that believes the evidence points to foul-play; I still feel like she was targeted by someone who recognized her as a vulnerable tourist that would be an easy victim. It is possible that she did have an accident, or even became suicidal, but I have a hard time dismissing the homicide aspects just by saying so without proof (why did she take her clothes off before drowning herself?, etc.) I feel for the Lam family for the lack of answers uncovered, and hope they can move beyond this if they haven't already.
I fully agree! If nothing else, the case should have had the cause of death labeled as, "undetermined." If you can't prove the drowning to be accidental, nor an act of homicide, it simply means that the ample amount of evidence present was inconclusive.
This seems to be very, very lazy and shoddy work. However, the LAPD is sort of known for their incompetency, and so I shouldn't find this as surprising as I do.
People have theorized that she had removed her clothing in an effort to keep herself afloat, but that doesn't explain why should would have removed her undergarments as well. Also, it would be extremely difficult and take a good amount of effort in order to remove your clothing while also trying to keep yourself afloat. I think that theory could be ruled out.
The theory that I can't debunk, however, is that of a potential psychotic break. I do find it odd, having dealt with multiple mental illnesses myself for over a decade, that this could happen as a result of a mental illness or adverse reaction to psychiatric medication.
I still think there's a very strong possibility of foul-play present; I've thought this over rather well, and I've concluded that if someone were to force her to get into the water tank at weapon-point, Elisa may have been more, "willing" to do so as opposed to attempting to escape back into the hotel, because she may have assumed that she could have easily gotten out of the tank after the person left (and we know she had slept with a guy while on vacation, so the possibility that she had hooked up with a murderer can't be ruled out either - it's also really convenient that her cellphone had went missing during her stay at the Cecil).
Of course, perhaps I'm allowing my imagination to run wild and I have no way of substantiating such theories.
Irregardless, I think that the hotel certainly is at fault and should be punished to the full extent of the law. Multiple RUclipsr's have proven that the Cecil Hotel doesn't keep the rooftop entry door locked as it should, and window rooftop exits are far too accessible (the rooftop should be checked frequently and the windows should be guarded). They should also have better quality elevator cameras, more cameras around the hotel in general, and they should fix the issues with the elevator doors and panel.
HOW is this death an accident when she was found NAKED?
Anybody, the police, her family, asked this question?
+Xiaomin L Feador I still have no reasonable explanation for that. Some theories have to do with her mental state, or trying to use her clothing to block incoming water. It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me though.
GeekenDorx Maybe she got out of her clothes while having the psychotic episode, fooling around on top of the water tan, throwing her clothes into the water, and slipped. But that theory sounds stretchy even to myself.
I'm starting to think that the missing footage may well be known to the family, and that it may be witheld at their request. Perhaps if her mental state was this bad she acted in a way that would cause negative judgement and cause embarrassment to her/the family. Basically, enough is shown to help identify her and show how she may have been behaving, but releasing embarassing footage would not be helpful to a missing persons case. Then, after her body was found, there's no need to release that footage. It perhaps shows a more concrete example of her mindset that would put debate to rest.
+lucy girl bipolar and manic depression are the same thing Hun, bipolar is just a new term for manic depression, look it up
+Baron Thundercunt
could be, but then again, there might still have been something/someone else there, that would compromose either the hotel or the police.
+dwilloughby13 no they arnt! don't comment on something you clearly know nothing about. I have had depression for many years and experienced bi polar episodes, they are not the same thing.
+lucy girl +dwilloughby13 is right. they are both the same, with Bipolar Personality Disorder being the newest official name. there are two different types of BPPD tho, that may be what you're thinking about, bppd1 and bppd2
+lucy girl It's one and the same. The medical profession later changed it to BD.
i dont believe she had a psychotic break. even if she wrote a strange postcard, climbing into that tank is beyond bizarre. i suspect a smart killer got away with a horrible murder.
+Joseph Blue - iff the worker when investing the water complaint and found her body... was able to lift the lid.... well somebody... planed to dump her body in there... and l believe that she was dead before... as it would have been a struggle to get a live person in there... therefore l think.... that that somebody got a ladder and used a bar to lift that heavy lid... than he went and to her and carried her maybe on his shoulder dumped her in and closed the lid.... what other way can this have been done..... ?
So the conclusion is that this was an accident and the family accepted this, so why was the footage manipulated and slowed down, and it was said that the police said that there were no signs of foul play and couldn't trace her tracks up to the water tower, so if this was an accident, her tracks would of been left all they way up to the tower and in the water tower
So many questions left unanswered
+Stephen Ray I totally agree.
Here's the conclusion to me she was a damn adult who made her own decision to go off her meds n is responsible for herself she knew going off her meds wasn't smart but did n if she dies buy accident it's her own fault can't sue everyone for her mistakes
+Stephen Ray the family accepted that this is an accident from the beginning when their lawyer only talking about the fault of not having locks on the tanks, he dismissed everything else and kept talking about that like if the tanks were locked she wouldn't find another way to harm herself like jumping off or something.
of course everything is possible but what i mean is, the family definitely talked with their lawyer and decided to to stick to this argument !
WHY?
maybe they know the condition of their daughter and how severe her illness is.
maybe they saw somethings on the videos that were revealed to them and not to the public that made their decision.
this case must have "to be continued.... " text
+Sydney Black
IF she died by accident! That's not clear yet at all.
the Chinese are very private people, at least in my experience. my close friend, Henry, died surrounding curious circumstances and his family declined to make any statements. his parents are immigrants. he was my close friend and I'll never know what happened to him or where his body is resting and I worked at the location where he passed!!! it tears me up!!!
(p.s. I know this is not how all Chinese people act and I mean no harm. this is just my experience surrounding a curious death of a young Chinese person)
so glad you went to trial
lol well worded
Been watching your Elisa Lam playlist today. Listening to this one I thought, my chicken coop is more secure than the roof of this hotel.
I think it's pretty clear that the hotel was at fault. Not sure how the judge could have ruled otherwise.
amethystwyvern absolutely not the hotels fault. You can't regulate your life into your perfect little safe space. Bad things happen. Either she is responsible, or her killer. In no way did the hotel contribute to her death, other than possibly an employee.
John Lordan: the last bookstore, one of the last place Elisa visited before going to the Cecil Hotel on its domain has the address of the cemetery in Burnaby, British Columbia where her remains rest. thats strange.
So disappointed. It sounds like to me the prosecution dropped the ball on this one and that the family didn't have the heart for a fight. I'm wondering if someone can get the police records by filing a Freedom Of Information request. There are too many unanswered questions. Bipolar disorder usually manifests in extreme moods, either highly energetic, compulsive or agitation , then followed by a period of deep low and inactivity. But a complete break from reality? I don't know. I hope we can get more info somehow.
+Carolyn Neumann There are about 3 or 4 types of bipolar disorder and all of them can have a lot of varying degrees of psychosis that can differ in extremes and symptoms.
+Carolyn Neumann Usually. One of the several bipolar people I know gets psychotic if he's off his medication for too long. The poor dear.
***** Yeah, definitely a high possibility. My mom has more of a Cyclothymic Disorder, her moods can get high and low pretty quickly and she can go on major shopping sprees when she's on a high. Also, read my Seroquel comment I posted. Supposedly she was taking Seroquel and high doses of that stuff can knock you out and cause you to be out of it. I take it occasionally but not every night because it's addicting and causes major weight gain. (I have depression and anxiety)
I don't know, she supposedly had the where for all to get up on the roof, climb up the tank and get in the water. You know my gut is just screaming there is more to it than that. Perhaps we will never know.
Maybe she was suicidal from not taking her pills for awhile and then starting them again or taking too many or coming off of a certain pill. You're right, who knows...
a swimming pool on top of the roof where she died at WOW thats like making a bomb factory where the 9/11 site was at Dude WTF my Jaw has Dropped WOW im just in Awe you can't be serious I know i'm not the only one creeped out and disturbed by this T_T
PS I been following a youtuber that been to the Cecil Hotel and she made a point that made my Brain Scratched not sure if you heard of this but she said that the 911 number doesn't work in this hotel this makes me question why?
it's crazy right?!! its like they are mocking her case.
ELBee London its quite how do you say Morbid she lost her life and now they put a swimming pool like thats like putting a 9/11 world trade centers death site into a Airplane museum just really in poor taste and quite disturbing on many levels
Ayo I Don't Do That Internet Beef Shit So Fuck Off! -_-
+Amanda Flores lol what happened? what was said?
ELBee London I dont know what she said but it sounded like she was offended for no reason because I brought up 9/11 and like I got family from NYC over there so why would i diss the victims but to start off your words like are you fucking serious they were killed by terrorist no really you think I was around the time that happened in America like I live here too so for her to insult me like that I seen Red and hit the block button im not even gonna say what she said about Elisa Lam this isn't High School people need to grow up stop throwing shade -_-
Hi, at the Cecil Hotel trial were you able to gather the names of the people who attended?Just wondering if anyone who was an employee of the hotel at that time came? Seems to me that the murderer would come to see what happened and if any information came up. the cut video to me is a slam dunk and this girl was murdered. I feel bad that the Hotel did not have to pay the family for them not having the tanks locked. the police in this case should be fired. No DNA taken at the water tanks or finger prints?Lie detector test taken on hotel employees/
No, but there weren't many. One person I could see was a reporter.. myself and another RUclipsr, more legal staff on both sides.. that was pretty much it.
John, thank you for your comments on the over medication of our society. I did a paper on this phenomenon in college. I suffer from bipolar myself but after a long period on light meds I had a series of complications and since 2005 I have been med-free and keeping the situation under control with proper diet and exercise (something doctors would say is impossible)- I I see myself i much of the girl's sad story for a number of reasons. Despite a team of doctors telling me not to I too moved abroad (to Italy) for an exchange program in 2002 and I have been here ever since. Living abroad, ALONE for a female presents a distinct set of problems which can be multiplied by 100 if you include a predisposition for mental illness. In my opinion, blaming this case on the poor girls delicate mental state is BS - pure and simple. If she had been manic we would have seen far different behaviour in the video. Her movements would have been faster (her hands for example would have been shaking instead of the magical child-like gestures in the video and she probably would have been hopping instead of calmly standing inside the elevator) and more erratic in addition to other public displays of irrational behaviour in other places on camera outside of the hotel. It is impossible to believe that the behaviour of a full blown manic episode would go unnoticed in the age of constant surveillance. The bookstore she supposedly visited for example would have had similar footage or testimony for example. None of these are present and it is a shame that her parents are willing to write the case off to "accidental" so easily. Another thought- why didn't anyone hear her screaming from inside the tank???!!!! If we accept the fact that the roof was easier to access that was previously thought and that she was alive for a period of time long enough to remove her clothing in an attempt to stay afloat longer we can also assume she would have cried for help. Yelling in a tank normally magnifies the sound and therefor her screams would have been potentially audible to many in and around the hotel.... there are still many missing pieces to this story and blaming this death on the girls illness is unfair and unkind. Suicidesand/or accidents happen but not usually like this even in the case of mental illness. Just thought you might like to know. Take care and thanks for the excellent coverage of this situation.
Nobody said she was manic. They said it was a psychotic break, which implies a period of acute psychosis. Psychosis is disruptions in perceptions of reality, basically it can make it hard to distinguish reality. Since the form this takes is only limited by the imagination of a currently psychotic person, its reasonable that it could have caused her to act the way we saw in the tape, and have acted in a way that could get her into that tank.
On a side note you should really break that into paragraphs, it was pretty hard to read as it. In academic writing you rarely see a paragraph over 10 sentences, yours is 15.
+Ittbittykittycommitte, thank you for reading my comment- from the comments usually posted on RUclips I was not aware that the "academic" format was necessary but I will keep that in mind for the future.
It has been stated many times that Elisa suffered from bipolar disorder. This is a broad term that describes a person who experiences (some degree of) periods of intense happiness followed by periods of depression generally in cycles. This can include hallucinations (though less common than disorders like schizophrenia) and if extreme, a break with reality. (The actress who played Lois Lane in the old Superman films had a horrible break - during a manic period- that caused her to live on the street and pull the fillings from her teeth because she thought the government was using them to track her-for example)
Bipolar illness has often been cited as responsible for her "psychotic break" and I find this odd- unless she was also suffering from some combination of illnesses. A combination of illnesses has never been cited in the information I have found though I did not read the coroner's report to see the list of meds she was taking. Lithium or Carbamezapine (also used for epilpsy) are typically used to treat bipolar disorder. The fact there was a list of various meds (in the autopsy) could mean that she did indeed have more than one illness. If that is true, it should be stated when discussing the "break" instead of citing only biploar.
My observation is that her "break" does not display the behaviour usually observed in a bipolar related "break" and that there is a general misunderstanding of mental illness. This often leads to a lack of investigation on the part of law enforcement when the individual missing is considered to be mentally ill. The facts in this case are NOT clear and deserve more investigation. If she had not been "mentally ill" the police and her family would not have given up so quickly- this is both sad and unjust.
As a society we are much more likely to defend bias based on race than mental or physical disability. I would argue "mentally ill or physically disabled lives matter" - urging law enforcement to take cases of disappearances or deaths (like Elisa Lam) more seriously.
Thank you for your thoughts and take care.
Academic format is not necessary, I just used it as an example. It does have the distinction of having some of the longer paragraphs on average though lol. Paragraph length is based on topic mostly, you start a new one for each new topic. In causal writing, which is what I would call any comment thread, that would be the only real guideline, and it's just to make it easier to read.
I do know what Manic Depression is... I just didn't want to be that guy who explains it to someone who has it like they don't already know lol. Guess I could have saved you a little time there lol.
I also should have been more clear, they said it was a psychotic break due to "falling of" her meds. Even with some basic low dose antidepressants, stopping use suddenly can cause some serious backlash.
I have experienced a wide array of symptoms from suddenly stopping these medications, including episodes of psychosis that lasted an hour at best and 2 days at worst. You'll forgive me if I don't detail what happened during them, but suffice to say even though I was in touch with reality enough to figure out it was psychosis, I still wasn't in touch enough to feel safe my bathroom lol. The reason was absurd though, I promise you. If it was acute psychosis (more severe than my episodes I'm sure) it's not hard to imagine any number of circumstances which would prompt her to do that since, as I said, it's really only limited by ones imagination.
I personally think that there's so much more to the case. lack of avidence and the camera footage that was released to the public is just not enough...
Your's is the BEST RUclips Channel.
Its great seeing people like you and other RUclipsr's who genuinely care.
I'm having trouble coming to grips with the "her parents are at fault, they should have been keeping a better eye on her" defense. Not only was she well (3+ years) into adulthood, but her parents reside in an entirely different country. Why are they treating her as if she were a minor who ran away from home or something? We seem to have no problem trying children as adults when they commit crimes, yet we want to blame the parenting when a grown woman goes missing and/or is mysteriously found dead on the opposite side of the planet? Shit makes no sense.
WTF! The prosecutor is stupid! You should've represented Elisa's family
John, you know better! If I am the prosecutor I wouldn't yes it was an accident I would have challenged their surveillance system, the
LAPD investigation and all those fishy things... Haayy there's just no justice because there's too may coward and stupid people. Sorry I'm just frustrated and I feel for her family.☹️
If our lovely Elisa were a rich politician or a well known celebrity the hotel would have been successfully sued (or settled out of court) due to the hotel failing to provide at the very least alarm activated security doors leading to the roof top. They make a hell of a noise when the doors are pulled without a key card which only the owner/ staff would have access to. Would answer that one question did someone killed her and try to hide her body, if they opened the doors to the roof, alarms would have been blaring throughout the entire hotel. The prosecution didn't drop the ball the prosecution simply wasn't invested in a case about a mentally ill young woman who to them was not anyone they actually had to fight for! It is truly dangerous to jump the gun and instantly blame her mental illness for her ending up dead in a water tank, especially when it involves an unexplained death that does not immediately make sense. I really feel that is precisely what the prosecutors did! They blamed her illness which may not have factored into her death at all.
They hotel is liable and the prosecutor should be replaced.
No justice for this woman or her family who most likely are crippled with guilt and regret for allowing Elisa who struggles with mental health issues to go away to college, feeling they could have prevented her death. Which of course they couldn't have. How is the family ever to recover from the loss of a daughter and sister.
Especially when they have no answers and their daughter is now just another statistic.
Having lived with a family member with this disorder and as a Crisis intervention specialist working for many years with many individuals with a variety of mental issues...The question is - Is it possible she had a major hyper- manic episode which may have severely exacerbated extreme risk taking behaviors in addition to being highly impulsive and if she was feeling threatened might she have run up to hide in a water tank, no one can say. But hyper manics tend to be fearless in the extreme, feeling immortal almost. She probably would have raised hell and fought back with immense strength which is typical during hyper manic episodes, she could have done some real damage to someone if she felt threatened, doubtful she would have run! Or was she so clinically depressed she was suicidal? Maybe, Yet again highly doubtful, it's a lot of work to end your life in that manner, more importantly it's not necessary, an overdose is typically seen in female cases. From observing her behavior in the elevator...she does not appear to be a person about to end her life. We can see her clearly smiling upon reentering the elevator at one point and you don't purposely repeatedly press all the elevator buttons to ensure the doors remain open and stationary, and you don't repeatedly stand outside the protection of the elevator in the hall out in the open if you are trying to escape- makes no sense. It looked like she was playing H&S, and was waiting for someone to try and find her. She did not appeared terrified, again she was smiling and very animated while appearing to beckon someone to her...If anything she was likely blinded sided and never seen it coming! But a psychologist is not a psychiatrist, yet still, to me her behavior in the video- such as it was, is not conducive with the symptoms of a major depressive episode and appears to lack the hyper manic energy of an untreated major manic episode. She may appear mildly hyper and possibly mildly anxious, even possibly agitated but none are extreme in nature. But If she was in fact experiencing an episode and was using recreational intoxicants to relieve her symptoms well that's entirely different, and since I'm very new to Elisa's story (and many comments express a large degree of misinformation or hiding info in her case that I've yet to learn) It's truly impossible to say without her being evaluated and only she could say for certain what she was experiencing. The only thing that is certain, she nor her family received justice! I wish her family peace.
the more time I watch the hotel video the most certain I am she was playing hide and seek with someone
parents don't always understand their children. Alot of families have terrible communication. they see a video of elisa being weird and assume she's fallen off meds. I don't buy the psychotic break theory. you don't have to be psychotic to do very unusual inexplicable things
Totally agreed -
Has anything new surfaced in the case since this video? And did no one bring up or challenge the California Regulations Related to Drinking Water? Chapter 16: California Waterworks Standards, Article 6: Design and Construction, Section B: Number 7? Regarding any tank to be " Equipped to prevent access from unauthorized persons." The "expert opinion"from the tank guy was legally correct. That hotel is liable and when they put locks on after the fact they admitted to that. Thanks for the thorough videos.
Absolutely FASCINATING John - congrats, you are a REAL Sherlock Holmes!
Why the hell would she climb into the tank ?????? If.....she was suicidal why didn't she just jump off the roof..... This is still strange to me... Why would anyone even crazy take their clothes off and jump into the tank?
+dwilloughby13
Maybe she was not suicidal. Maybe she just did it for fun or as a joke, crawled in there and drown-could not get back out for one reason or another.
+zudemaster yes, I agree with your theory, I think in the video she was making swimming gestures with her arms, somebody was talking to her I bet she was asking the mysterious person who worked there, suggested a swim in the tank and she, like you said couldn't get out and drowned
+zudemaster maybe the person she was trying to communicate with didn't speak English so she used hand gestures to communicate with him , and when her hands were out maybe she was asking why is there no pool here? and the tragedy went on from there, it might have just been an accidental drowning, it was stated that it was very hot in the hotel, and she just got it in her head that she wanted to swim and she was determined and probably that's that
I don't see how someone decides to access the roof and then fall off the roof have anything to do with not keeping the tanks locked. Although anyone can jump of a building via a window or other means, the hotel should be held accountable for at least not having the roof secure from guess. Someone jumping off a building doesn't endanger all the other occupants, but having access to the tanks is not only dangerous to the guess having access but could potentially endanger others in the hotel by contaminating the water that everyone uses. That should of been at least a counter argument by the prosecution.
What if a serial killer actually did put her there, and he was so close to being caught, but now it's just an accident and he got away with murder?
hi John, I love your videos, I've watched all the Elisa Lam ones and many others. I was just rewatching the elevator video of Elisa and noticed something- when she steps into the hall, she seems to be miming SWIMMING! and was then found in WATER! either she was communicating with someone else, or was imagining that she was, but it clearly looks like a mime of "hey wanna go for a swim? yeah, lets do it!" that's what it looks like to me anyway. does anybody agree?
Thank you fof going to the trial and giving us a first hand account.
I feel that the if the prosecution lawyer were more competent, the outcome would have been different. Guessing that the family, given they are Canadian residents, either weren't very savvy at selecting a local LA lawyer or couldn't afford a better one.
Very tragic that Elisa passed like this.
you should do a video about Lisa McPherson
I still lean toward foul play in this case. However no matter what Elisa's parents thought really happened, supernatural or not, obviously the only case they could bring to court would be over an accident. No court will take a case over a haunted hotel. In any event, it's hard to believe there is no law that public water tanks have to be locked. There should be a law like that. Especially in this age of terrorism and mass murderers...
Good reporting.
Once they agreed "it was an accident due to medication neglect", the case was over. The hotel would not be held accountable due to unsecured water tank lids. At most the hotel could get a neglect charge and fined for safety issues. So, the prosecutor had no case left to argue when foul play was ruled out.
Sad.
The problem with civil suits that go to trial is even if the jury finds in your favor, if the judge is a jackass and doesn't agree he can issue a remittance cutting dramatically the jury award for sketchy reasons. It happened to me in Federal Court. There was very strong evidence for Elisa's family to sue the Hotel certainly enough to go to trial just on the fact that any patron had unrestricted access to the roof and the hotel had prior knowledge that patrons had partied there so,. just as you described the burden on the Cecil to make it reasonably safe was minimal and the accident foreseeable. Your analysis of this was excellent, esp noting that the location of the low rent hotel would naturally attract a higher percentage of patrons who might be at risk due to addiction or mental illness. The Lam family's lawyer did a poor job, although it appears that the Judge would've dismissed it regardless given his history. It's a shame what happened to that young lady, her death at the Cecil could have been prevented by a few simple safety measures.
+terrybo8 I agree.. I think the judge was already set to drop this case (he spoke about that position to press several days before it was presented).
I'm not surprised. It's truly sad. Many people just assume all judges must be fair and impartial when in reality they routinely demonstrate the same biased opinions that would eliminate a citizen from becoming a juror in their court. This case is a perfect example as the judge was known to be biased against women for decades. It's nearly impossible to unseat a Judge, they would have to do something so heinous it would be hard to ignore or cover up. I really appreciate the work you and your fellow researchers have done to help uncover the truth and assist those who have been a victim of crime and the abject failure of our government to protect those of us most vulnerable, thanks to you all
i feel horrible ..someone's actually gotten away with murder...the killer or killers must be laughing their asses off when they heard about all of this...
Great job, John! Thanks so much for the new info! It is very dissappointing indeed that we might never know what actually happened to the poor girl. I provided the new infos to my german channel and gave you the credits for it! Keep up the great work! :-)
+Goruna X Thanks Goruna.. I checked out your latest vid today, but couldn't understand it too well without English subtitles. :-) Thanks for the shout out!!
I personally think the hotel staff are involved I’m following a you tuber who tried to film in the hotel and some around Elisa’s room and security were following him threatening him to stop or he would be thrown out
Zoe Omara whats the you tubers name? I want to check it out!
I think they were talking about duty of care. The result blew my mind. Of course business's have a duty of care for their clients/guests/employees etc. I agree with you, that the whole roof access thing should have been covered more and the fact that if people can access that area puts people at risk and should be properly secured. It doesn't matter if guests were allowed in that area, it should have been secured. Also you mentioned previously that there is no signage to that fact except for an alarmed gate that seemed to not to work. Here in Australia, the case would have continued, as we have laws for Duty of Care. It's sad that California does not.
Strange this is the hotels water supply ...drinking water....for health reasons of the patrons the water supply should have been secure.
This might sound a bit odd but does anyone know how far the water level was from the hatch? I am just wondering if she was with someone else (which is the theory put forward by some body language analysts) whether that person, perhaps as a joke or perhaps in anger threw her clothes in there? Maybe they were involved in some kind of sexual activity but she stopped it for some reason? Perhaps the guy wanted to go further than she did but wasn't a murderer. Maybe he just got pissed off and threw her clothes in the water tank. Maybe he stuck around or maybe he didn't. But imagine finding yourself naked on the roof of a hotel. I guess it would be fairly reasonable to assume you would try to retrieve your clothes. And perhaps in doing this she over-stretched, lost her balance and fell in?
+Paul Currie I think he said at the time they found her 12"_
+Paul Currie And her watch too? nahhhhh
I got A strange feeling this was some type of false flag scenario! Because of the outbreak on skid row! They didn't know how to handle it so they made this case to keep people's mind off of it or they did it because they knew they were gonna make a season of American Horror Story about a Hotel that is similar!. Plus the drug they used to treat the out break was Lam Elisa and who's family isn't gonna show up to a case where there family died? I've always had a strange feeling about this case n now I'm starting to believe she wasn't even a real person!.
But that's just my opinion and how I'm feeling about this right now!.
A Chinese family. They are deeply embarrassed and unlike non-Asians, aren't OK with airing their dirty laundry in public. Wouldn't have affected the outcome for them to have been there.
It's a very sad thing that happened. It seems like she was a very decent person. May she rest in peace.
As a senior in college studying biochemistry, I’ve always related to the stress and overwhelming feeling that Elisa was experiencing in college. Coupled with the isolation that i often feel in college being away from my family and fiancé, it is really tough. I’ve never spent a weekend at college; I’ve always driven home to see them every weekend. Recently I’ve given myself a day or two every week to have time with my friends and family aside from school. I think there are ways that, in conjunction with medications if needed, one can combat the college depression.
I find the judge's name very eerie. His name is Howard Holmes and there was a famous serial killer named HH Homes (otherwise known as Howard Holmes) whom built a hotel with trap doors, and secret halls, and an entire underground torture chamber. He would take guests in and drug them then use the trap doors to get their body in the basement. What are the odds? Especially with the reports of her acting strange from the room mates and footage. Also there is a comment I saw on another video where a young lady said she was staying in another hotel up the road, and saw Elisa, and noted how odd she seemed to be acting. I strongly feel that this case boils down to money and power ...in your theory video you have nearly the same hypothesis that I have. The only thing I differ with is that I still believe her death originally was from those involved in occult practices that lived there. I hate to go there ... I really do .... but the mix of the forensics, investigation, and occult coincidences behind her death is so glaring. I think I'm going to make a video as well. All this tied with the comment about the judge being a sleeze, and he's a new judge to the case as well? I just feel so bad for her family. It seems as if all the people they were suppose to trust to do the right thing for their daughter just completely gave up. RIP Elisa :(.
+MaidenOfDarkness I wanted to add a few things to this comment. When I bring up the strange occult like coincidences in this case, I'm not trying to be disrespectful to her memory at all. I know there are SO MANY video's out there that point to all the paranormal type hype around this case, and completely cut out any logical thinking, or research into the available reports we have. It seems as if Elisa's case was taken from a murder investigation and pushed right into urban legend land by the media, television, and paranormal enthusiasts. The only reason why I point out these odd occult or creepy coincidences (like with the judge's name) is because with Elisa's case it seems like we have just as many odd coincidences coinciding with occult like ties, as we do with the official police investigation, and the coroner's report. I find this a highly emotional case. I feel so bad that her memory is left with all these questions, and little answers. I feel like they were so quick to be done with this case. Mental illness is a serious thing. Could this have clouded her judgement when going down there to meet someone online? Was the body placed there after the first initial search when she was still a missing person? If she was on the roof during the missing person search the dogs WOULD HAVE surely smelled her clothing which was apparently folded by the tank. Why haven't we heard anything from the room mates she had? If so many people noted her odd behavior how could this be accounted for when in her autopsy there's no drugs? Who did she stay with when she first landed in LA? So many questions. An official trial would have hopefully quelled some of this, and they were so quick to close it all together. I hope her and her family can have some peace.
+MaidenOfDarkness You certainly have a firm grasp of the pertinent questions. I look forward to seeing your video!
OH MY GOD!!! i knew i recognised the name Howard holmes! that has to be one of the creepiest parts of this story (although there are many) especially considering this wasn't the original judge AND that woman that worked with him said he was a sadist sex pest(or however she worded it) im not a big believer in supernatural but have a fascination with it. i do however, beleive in coincedence, but there seem to have been an awful lot in this case. please do do a video. i would love to see this side of things set out for us to ponder. gotta say that HH thing made my heart race, there's coincedence then there's downright weird! 😨
Wasn't it Howard Halms? I thought that's what it said in this here video and article. // It's synchronicity, sammycinnamon ;)
Hey, really loved this series it gave a lot of insight to the case. In one of your older videos you mentioned about the video footage being manipulated and why they didn't just show like this tiny bit of her rather than this whole video and parts of it supposedly being edited out. Well, you know how the LAPD's website no longer has the video? I went back into the site's archives and found the video. It's strange because in this released version they only have the footage of her and the part with the elevators is completely cut out, just seems strange that the rest of the video is there when shown later on to the public with that supposed one minute cut out. This is the link if you wanted to check it out
web.archive.org/web/20130502003352/www.lapdonline.org/newsroom/news_view/52943
Hope to hear more if the upcoming film creates more controversy!
thanks John for attending the hearing, it was a good report you did for us.
There certainly seems a need to be a legal precedent for water tanks to be locked. What if somebody contaminated the water with poison. I think a chance for a law to be made has been missed.
best wishes to you and your family for the holidays.
Is it just me, or was the lift video tampered with? When I have watched u tubers in the lift, all 3 walls are mirrored, yet the police footage shows Elisa on a ‘painted’ wall? It’s so obvious, but we are all so busy watching her, we don’t see the obvious. Also, the floor is grey ( not rimmed with a yellow/ gold edge) as previously noted in the released footage... 🧐
WHAT?! The LAM family said that? There will be No justice for Elisa Lam. I still think that an employee of the Hotel killed Lam.
💩
Me to
X-MISMA-X , no doubt, key access to the rooftop ....
Debbie Martinez
The guy who made this video visited the hotel, (You should look for that video on his channel). What is important ois that he said that the entrancde to the rooftop was UNLOCKED!
Paul Blake But a stranger loitering around the hotel would be noticed, or should be noticed.
Ok....
A roof top wading pool? That is unnecessary and in very poor taste considering Elisa's case.
Here's an idea. Go ahead with a roof top garden and even a bar.
Invest in safety measures so no one falls to their death.
A wading pool turns my stomach.
if you have Netflix you should check out "making a murderer" I am addicted I think you might like it :)
+alexandra serrano I will certainly check it out! Thank you Alexandra!!
One thing that bothers me is when the judge questions the liability of the entire roof and the prosecution says no they aren’t responsible to put fencing up or anything, they could’ve very well said that rather than being responsible for blocking off the entire roof they’re responsible for either making sure their door is locked or their alarm works.
To me, it’s clear that the prosecution didn’t have a very confident and well spoken lawyer. I do think it’s an issue on the tanks not legally needing locks, but equally their emergency exit alarms either didn’t work or didn’t exist in some doors and to me that should be enough to blame them for her being able to even access the roof and tanks without getting caught by hotel staff. Had their alarms worked, she would have immediately been followed up there and possibly stopped from doing anything reckless or from being harmed in general. It's horribly sad that this kind of thing can happen because of hotel management negligence and possibly medication contradictions. As someone who's taken a multitude of medicine over my life, I know what it's like to take a pill thinking it'll help you sleep or calm you down and suddenly be thrown into intense hallucinations or a state of almost sedation. Prescription medication is serious, and it can do really awful things, it's sad that in today's culture we're made to think that anything given by a doctor is good for you when frankly that's not true.
just curious if you are an actual detective or are you just really interested in cases? your investigation skills too good for some random guy with a you tube account. either way, you have got yourself a fan here
Thanks Jenny, not an actual detective, but I did a lot of research in my previous career. Same skillset, but instead of inventing technical solutions, I'm now trying to find the truth in all the info that has been presented.
ah omg you replied to me >_< thank you! i love your videos!! they are so informative.
+GeekenDorx Try and Find out more about Cindy James if u can.
I absolutely agree with you Jenny :)
thank you Jenny
Sounds like everyone just gave up&want this all over with.No family says it all.poor we girl didnt climb up there take all her clothes of open the heavy lid throw the clothes in&jump in then magically pull the lid back in place.She was murdered by someone she met@hotel an employee,maybe one day they'll tell the truth.
I feel sorry for the parents getting no real closure on this. It feels like The hotel didn't acknowledge Elisa's death at all. There are questions her family still need answers too. At the end of the day even though we want to work out what happened, it's the family that are left morning.
I’m very late to this video but when this all originally came out I swear I thought part of the story was that her clothes were off & folded outside the tank resulting in her being found nude in the tank. Now I see that part nowhere.
We the people ,Dang it we all should have gone,or sent something with John previously organized,sorry you guys,I'm still reeling we could of filled those seats.we could reach out to her attorney??Appeal this,as citizens?we need super powers I'm thinking,or is it enough like one of the comments below that read we've all held her close in our hearts where most leave this world unnoticed?maybe pick a star for Her in the sky and try to shake this feeling??Again I apologize,just sad at the lack of the opportunity for a trial
you dnt think that maybe she met one of the long time residents who she liked and he told her that they always go up on the roof to party and 'swim' in the tanks so he told her to meet him on the roof snd go skinny dipping with him? he ended up standing her up, realized he hadn't seen kr heard from her in a while goes up to the roof and sees her clothed laying be the tanks, realises she got into the tank and couldnt get out (she didnt know the usual things they did to prevent getting stuck inside like ladder or having other ppl help you out from thr outside) and drowned. In fear he just grabs her clothes and throws them inside the tank w her and hopes no one notices?? thats the most logical explanation i can come up with...
For me, the most telling aspect of this case is Elisa's family's acceptance of the accidental death verdict.
Her family knew her better than anyone, they knew her all her life.
While most of us find Elisa's behaviour in the elevator video very strange and unusual, I suspect that her family recognised her behaviour and had seen her act this way before.
They obviously accepted that she would have been capable of getting into the water tank by herself, however unlikely that might seem to the rest of us.
she was murdered and her family knows who done it but cant say anything for obvious reasons.
Right, I didn't know about that.
When did you speak to them?
Do they know you shared this information with the world?
i got the information from a classified source but it would explain why her family went with the ''accidental death'' verdict
Perhaps her family were contacted by aliens and asked to keep quiet so as not to upset interplanetary relations.
That would also explain "why her family went with the ''accidental death'' verdict.
Your turn .........................
first of all the video is being heavily edited so that it looks like it's odd/weird behavior... secondly, behavior analyzers analyzed her behavior and stated that no fear or anxiety was shown in the video but she had a happy attitude and felt sexualy active for a person that either was present in the hallway or she was thinking about him...
I have all the legal proof for my evidence and my sources exist and are reliable,althought I don't claim to find the answer I can support easily my above statements.
I think this is good for closure with this case. It was a tragic accident. Could measures have been taken that may have prevented it? Yes, but learning from it and creating new building codes that prevent it from happening again, should be the next actions in my opinion.
New building codes --- like a swimming pool for youngsters. Yay!
I understand why the prosecution said it would be too much of a burden to ask the hotel to secure the rooftop, if you search for "Incêndio no Edifício Joelma" (Fire on Joelma's Edifice) you see that in the past in my country there was a famous fire and lots of people died, but the ones who survived were mostly saved -after the fire got big- through the rooftop. The rooftop is a really important emergency "gate", to ask the hotel to lock the way to the rooftop but still have a way were people would go there if there was a fire would be ridiculous hard.
I think the fact there is a movie about this (and it has the japanese and the american version, which means is somewhat a hit), shows that actually can happen more than people think, so yeah, I agree the judge may have stopped to protect people from future harm and even free hotels or edifices from the responsability in similar cases - past cases are often mentioned in jury.
I dont think there was really something wrong with the medication because antipsychotics do have quite a lot of side effects, specially if you are not taking them for really long and its really used (I've been using them for more than 3 years and I'm still a quite a zombie because of them).
But I also want to know about Canada position, I mean, someone from their country died in another country, dont they have any say in this?
Not too sure if you have seen this post or not. I noticed a couple of photos Ive not seen before, although it seems to be mostly the same information.
ymbdad.blogspot.com.au/2015/01/everyday-strange-elisa-lam-part-i.html?m=1
How dark was up on the roof was moon full enough to light up the roof if not how would she found her way around?
That crossed my mind too.
I just searched this for you. The moon was between full moon and third quarter on January 31st 2013 in Los Angeles. Closer to third quarter.
if she was mentally ill I can't see anyone having the thought to go to the roof and drown in a tank.. crazy.
I have to go back to the fact that a police search with police dogs on the roof failed to locate her, yet she was found there later. To me the only plausible explanation for this discrepancy was that the body wasn't there when the roof was searched. It's nigh impossible the dogs don't find the body if it was actually there at the time. "When you eliminate the impossible; whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." It was also mentioned that there was some sort of conflict that lead to her being moved from a group accommodation to a different room by herself, which she seemingly never actually spent a night in. I believe there was some sort of incident as a result of this conflict, (it sounds to me like this was a group of people with mental conditions that she was staying with initially), that lead to her death, and then her body was dumped in the tank after the police search. You might want to see what the Freedom of Information Act can get you.
So the killer removed the body from the hotel, only to bring it back after the police were gone, carried it up a fire escape and several ladders, removed the clothing from the body, threw them in the tank and then fit the body in there, all while not bruising or otherwise damaging the body and attracting no attention ?
+SimplyMadness The body was found over 2 weeks after her disappearance. While post-mortem bruising is possible, I think it's highly unlikely to occur if she had been deceased for even half that time. (I'm certainly no medical expert, so by all means correct me if I'm wrong.) Secondly, the police searched the roof with the dogs, but they did NOT search the entirety of the hotel. I'm only suggesting the body wasn't on the roof at the time the police searched it, but it's still possible the body was somewhere else in the hotel in an area that wasn't searched. Given the history of the hotel, the staff/owners wouldn't want details of yet another nefarious death to be public knowledge; thus they would have good reason to hide the facts and know where to stow the body where a police search wouldn't find it. Still, at the very least my theory is still more plausible than suggesting police dogs that were on the roof couldn't find the body if it was there at the time of the search.
Dogs have trouble picking up scent in water though right ? Or I maybe wrong. Or maybe she was placed there for that specific reason.
+foodandwater1 Dogs only have trouble with scents in water when there are currents, which obviously there are none here, and water moving through the pipe system would not replicate that scenario.. The only other thing that might hamper dogs is if there were a cleaning agent in the water, but this was a tank for drinking water, so those type of chemicals shouldn't be present. Sometimes fluoride is used in drinking water, but even if they did use fluoride I don't think it's a strong enough chemical to prevent dogs from getting the scent.
+foodandwater1 regular dogs might. Cadaver dogs are basically professional sniffers. Not much deters them They should've smelled that dead lady floating on the water. It would have been so foul, you might have smelled it. The lid was off, remember.
Oral contraceptives can be one of the reasons for developing severe depression in young females
My $.02, she was being playful (what at first creeped me to the core because of the lack of context) with someone that she had met but was off screen of the camera. He was a resident of the hotel and took her to the roof after a night out. She would have had to ride that elevator up to the 14th floor, where is that footage? She was meeting her new friend there so that he could show her the roof and take a dip (best way to impress a friendly odd girl in the middle of a city "I know a secret place!"). They were inebriated in some way, played around the hallways and elevator (she is flirty playful and not scared) went to the roof, had sex on the gravelly ground (debris in the clothing) and jumped into the tank for a skinny dip. He got out, she was passed out or wanted to stay for a bit (on drugs and in a sensory deprivation tank is hypnotizing), by the time he looked in on her she was unresponsive and he panicked, tossed in her things and that's that. It's the guy in the hotel surrounded by empty bottles of water because he knows what those tanks are for. When you are young, exploring your independence, not fully stable, and feeling that you are on the adventure of your life, even recklessness seems halfhearted. Chasing fun and adventure mixed with strangers, drugs and an uneven keel leads to bad things, not necessarily because of bad people. She haunts me, not because of weirdness but because she left without a reason or goodbye.
I’m curious about that postcard to her cousin, what was so alarming?
I sometimes rewatch this and think: "It's a good thing someone level-headed covered this whole thing, because I'd have lit a f---ing fire."
I’m really really late to this video but that elevator footage is so scary.
you are so right about psych drugs. I have worked as a mental health worker in State Hospital and privately. There are people who are very very sick and need those drugs however in my experience they have limited success and cause horrific side effects. I am amazed when I hear people taking powerful drugs as a first option. I believe the medical doctors and pharmacy companies are hand in hand pushing these potent drugs to anyone who wants them, for profits. There is a big difference between serious mental illness and people having a rough patch in their life. Yes, I agree with you, don't run for the meds first try another way to cope with your problems. I am not a doctor just want people to know the truth about these drugs before they take them. I have seen some tragic effects of their use, and I don't believe doctors are being careful prescribing them. Having said that there are some that are so sick I believe the drugs are worth taking. Again not a doctor just years of experience dispensing these drugs and watching the effects short and long term. Lastly, nervous about breaking HIPPA laws so won't say much else.
btw I don't know where you're from :), but here in NYC Only a psychiatrist can prescribe Bi polar meds. Three people I know are on Serequel (same as Elisa) and Colonipin (however you spell it) all Bi polar meds and they only got them from psychiatrists who first put them into therapy to determine if they need to be on them!
+Katrina M.B Hi Katrina.. I don't believe there is anything to stop General Practitioners from attempting to treat bi-polar disorder and prescribing those medications. She is also from Canada, and I'm not certain if things are more strict or even more loose there. Here's an article talking about it (and backing your point that you really should have a psychiatrist treating bi-polar disorder). natashatracy.com/bipolar-disorder/general-practitioners-gps-treating-bipolar/
Truly a heart breaking case. Excellent research , and content presented in your videos. I still feel there are issues at hand here, mainly the edited , and manipulated footage from the elevator camera. And a hand writing comparison between Elisa's and the graffiti found on the roof top. The rest i can't speculate upon, it is possible she was severely depressed , and made the choice to end her own life. The TB outbreak , and the Lam Eliza vaccine , are possibly just coincidence. The film "Dark Water" 2002, , with a very similar plot line , and main characters "Dahlia (see black Dahlia), and Ceci", also perhaps mere coincidence ? Interestingly , if you check out Dr. James Cottrell's DTM(deep trance meditation), very similar to Edgar Cayce readings on the issue, he sees other entities involved, and they are using thought manipulation technology upon the subject. This is something that could possibly relate to the "ILA connection, and its connection to Raytheon , a weapons manufacturer. That all i got , would love to have some testimonials from the other patrons in the shared room, as to her behaviour , that led to her being moved to her own room. A room as stated that she did not spend the night in. I agree this case leaves one with few resolutions , and leaves one feeling rather empty, many condolences to the family and friends of a young woman who left the world to early .
I'm still confused about some dates. The court documents all say she made reservation for Jan 28th for 3 days. That would make her stay the 28, 29, and 30. Then check out 31 correct? Why is all the elevator footage from Feb 1 ??
R u serious ???
John, Elisa was murdered by an employee or x-employee from the hotel who had keys and who knew or knows every single corner of the hotel. No one has mentioned that the water in the tank during January and February would have been extremely cold making it less then impossible for anyone to want to dive right into freezing waters!
When this girl was moving her hands....she was talking to someone....explaining something to someone. There was someone out there "keeping busy" yet following her everywhere she would go....this is the reason for her poking her head as she did as well as hiding in the corner as if she did not want him to see her, should he pass by the elevator.
The murderer may very well still be working at the hotel even to this day!
+Sword
The water in the tank might not have been cold. This was in Los Angeles. I looked up weather history for Los Angeles on and around that day. Highs of 72 and lows of 60. The water might have actually been warm, being in a metal tank sitting on top of a roof in sunlight would warm it up quite a bit. Enough for someone to say hey i think i will go for a swim.
zudemaster Com'on my friend. January and February....the water was cold not matter how much sun there might have been that day...the wind was chilly for sure and therefore the water in the tank was NOT warm at all. She did not know the place. The idea of swimming did not occur to her and therefore she decided to walk upward in the building to go for a swim in the water tank. This girl was murdered by one of the employees that is for sure....it will come out to light sooner or later....it was an employee with keys and with very good knowledge as far as the building is concerned.
Ok, lets just say you are right. She was murdered by some employees of the hotel. Now no offense to anyone working those types of jobs, but those are minimum wage-low skilled type jobs. The kind of jobs that people with little education or skills do. I just have a hard time believing such a person would be capable of somehow pulling one over on highly trained police detectives investigating the crime. And such a person would not have the money, connections or resources to pay off the police either. They would have left some clues, some tracks leading back to them. They always do. Hiding a body in a water tank of a public building actually would be a very dumb move by a murderer who just so happens to work there. It would eventually be found-as it was.
I say the girl was whacked. She was snooping around the building for whatever reason, somehow ended up on the roof where she found those tanks. Jumped in and could not get out.
+zudemaster You said it my friend. Those employees are not with the highest education at all but street smart enough to hide the body in a place that would decompose her pretty quick! Honestly, I don't think the investigators went out of their way to find out more about the case. They settled for the idea of the girl relinquished as a "Cucu" case. I'm sure this girl was talking to someone when she was moving her hands from the elevator door. There is someone out there....he might have already moved on in his life and does not work there anymore...but there is someone out there who carries her blood in his hands.
And amazing work by the way!!
I found this channel after looking through some old information on the Kendrick Johnson case a few days ago.
Such amazing, thorough work you do on this channel!!