@Gauis if I may ask you please about an issue with my QS 3KW mid e-motor that locks up. I also have a Fardriver 84v530a controller that heats up, the temperature sensor is set to 2-NTC230K. Thank you 😊
its hard to diagnose these sorts of issues without more details. I offer 1:1 meeting where you can describe the issue and show with video. it's $25, but if I can't help you I will refund the cost. please book a session here: calendly.com/gaiusgarage/15-minute-consult
Motor overheating have nothing to do with overvolting. As long as the motor does not go overRPM it is fine.. and the voltage the motor see is always proportionnal to the rotationnal speed.. it have a kv factor (rpm per volt). What make a motor to overheat is CURRENT. If you Double the phase current you quadruple the heat. if you double the volt ( rpm of the motor) you double the heat.
You are right the over voltage issue does not matter I run my QS 72v motor at 96V no problem at all I would say the motor had some problems and I do not think the controller would have damaged the motor either
yeah you are 100% right - the issue was not the voltage -- they were just straight up lying. The issue was that a) Im dumb and crimped the terminal lugs on top of enameled copper BUT I checked the original crimps and b) THEY crimped the terminal lugs over enameled copper, which is just outright negligence. I have a video on my channel detailing that debacle (ruclips.net/video/HNDqLJDV5gE/видео.html ) the AliExpress store eventually refunded $225 to me. Never mind the motor with shipping was like $600
Yeah voltage has no real input on temperature, it all comes down to current so whether it was voltage or amps, it wasn't rated correctly or setup right in the first place. Sorry for your experience.
It's the current. Voltage × amps = motor watts. This is why high power bikes use high voltage as they can run lower amps and get the same power with less heat. Example..... 20a × 48v = 960w 20a × 72v= 1440w. More power for the same amount of current keeps the heat down. Current kills motors, not voltage. Yes you can give a motor so much voltage it destroys itself from spinning so fast as a motor has a simple rpm per v. Increase the voltage and you increase the total rpm and at a point it will become unstable.
hello i have the same motor from ali express but i got it from sia tech but it wont run an auto learn and when i try to ride it wont move but once its up in the air in runs fine i dont know if my battery is to weak or my throttle is to weak my battery says it 72v40ah but that all it says i was makin my own battery out of 18650 cells so i ordered a jdb 150a 20s bms so i might switch it with the battery i have to see if it works
I cant believe they would actually tell people to turn off the temp sensor. should've stayed with your best judgement. but motor was probably faulty either way - wouldve just prolonged the inevitable
@@uranuz300 really sucks. I've had other components that I order come in faulty or damaged. then it's always a back & forth where they deny any responsibility
It turns out pole pair has nothing too much set to 4 or better6 . So frustrating at first!! . Pay close attention to pid / KI settings, and angle . I fried my phaze wires once . 86v-100.8 is fine!! Youre better fixing the KI to mids ,and keep the numbers close . Play with that angle till it feels best . Had all the problems you had , but now is it running better?
Today I disassembled the new motor, and it turned out that the wires are just pressed on and it's not soldered tin at all, terrible processing, qs138/90, I had to take everything apart, clean it and fly
Thank you for your information.. I am planning on building a tricycle with one of QS138 90H . Any feedback on the new motor will be greatly appreciated Is the new seller of any good ?
the new motor is running but also been heating up rather quickly - I've narrowed the problem down to settings in the controller. I adjusted some of the PID setting and the motor doesn't run as hot but still not so cool. The issue is really the controller, and specifically the app used to program. It's really terribly designed and you can't change certain settings due to bugs. support is also terrible and rarely useful. I think you should be ok with this motor but I wouldnt use the Fardriver controller - the app and support really sucks
i@@benardopoku3538 Im still using the Fardriver controller because its what I purchased (twice) so I'm kinda committed here. The controller itself is ok, I guess but its really the app used to program that's the issue. Ive tried on iphone & android and some setting just cant be changed. I asked support about this and they give me a variety of response from "its a bug" to "its not supposed to be changed" meanwhile, it clearly the kind of option that needs to be configured to properly calibrate the controller. There's a PC app as well but it's pretty much un-usable. Alot of these controllers from China have terrible configuration software. I also have a Kelly controller and at the very least the settings are able to be changed but the software is buggy also (I have a video setting up a Kelly controller as well). Ultimately its a "pick your poison" kind of thing
Choose your poison exactly.. I have been following one guy on configuring and usage of the Votol em150s and 200s with the qs138 motors and it seems to be working fine and the software is stable per what was saying and the tests rides but that’s the PC version of the software.. I will still be following up on that , as it stands it seems I will go with the votol controller with the qs motor..
@@benardopoku3538 yeah I see a lot of people using Votol controllers with these motors. I chose Fardriver because its made by the same manufacturer so figured it would be a quick plug & play. This project was meant to be a quick & dirty build to have some fun on while I work on a more complex project, but now its a while thing : /
You have to understand that the fardriver like most controllers cannot determine pole pairs. The only way it could if if there was an extra magnet and hall sensor counting revolutions. Of course its default is 4, but you can set it as high as 30. Also as will all controllers, pole pairs doesn’t matter. The controller doesn’t care. Its ONLY used as an rpm reference. This is what the rep was trying to say. You can leave it at 4 and calibrate everything around it. But who does that nonsense? Lol One more thing to understand is the Fardriver can support up to 216,000 commutations per minute. That means the STM32, the mosfet drivers, the mosfets can only change a maximum of 216,000 times per minute. Another basic principle to understand is that each time a positive pole magnet passes a specific hall sensor, there will be 6 commutations before the next positive pole crosses that same hall sensor. In other words, this controller can handle 36,000 positive poles passing a specific hall sensor per minute. And as we know for each positive pole there is one pole pair. Ok, so default it has 4 pole pairs. And if we divide 36,000 by 4 pole pairs we get 9000 rpm, and thats why the rpm table automatically populates to 9000. If you set 5 pole pairs, top RPM in the table will automatically be set to 7200. With 24 pole pairs top rpm is 1500. Keep in mind this is MAX RPM the controller can handle, and that includes extended RPM from flux Weakening. Which can be as high as 200%. So if you set rated RPM above 3600 rpm (50% of max supported speed of the controller) with 5 pole pairs or try to set 5 pole pairs after rated rpm is set above 3600 , it will reject it. These settings are preparing the far driver for autotune. After running autotune it will reset the rated RPM higher automatically to a higher value well into flux weakening territory. Later you can go tailor each rpm in the table to taper off at the rpm you don’t want due to flux weakening causing amps to shoot through the roof. If all were left at 100% then under certain situations it would pull more amps, get weaker, pull more amps, get even weaker, then peg the amps. So by setting the current limit for certain rpm it will not get in that region.
@@timpuyau6161 , 6 commutation steps. Not 6 sensors. Commutation is when the current in the phase wires change because the mosfet states are changed. All 3 phase BLDC motors have 6 commutation steps because there are 6 possible ways to run power through the phase wires. For example when the mosfets for phase A connect battery (+) and the mosfets for phase B connect battery (-), electrons will flow in phase A, through its coils, and then out phase A, through its coils. This creates a set of electromagnetics which pull or push on the permanent magnetics. Once the motor has moved to a position where the the magnets cant be pulled or oushed effectively, the hall sensor sense that and tell the controller to go to the next commutation step. So it switches the mosfets and turns off the mosfets for phase A and connects phase C to battery (+) and that turns off all phase A coils and turns on all phase C coils, which can now push or pull on the permanent magnets. By having 6 steps, the controller can always apply force to turn the motor in the correct direction.
@@imho7250 ok I’m understand, So eRPM = pole pairs x rpm Frequency processeur = 6 x pole pairs x RPM? And it’s the rotor pole pair that count or the pole pair of the stator?
@@timpuyau6161 the processor frequency is higher because it has to do other calculations and vary how long the mosfets connect to the battery based on the desired current. When all that and the frequency at which the mosfets can be switched, it was determined by the manufacturer that in order to allow everything enough time to do its job, that it can only support 216,000 commutations per minute, with the understanding that within each commutation it needs turn the mosfets on and off many times to control current based on throttle settings and other variables. So 216,000/6 commutations is 36000 pole pairs per minute that can pass by the hall sensors. So with 4 pole pairs, the motor can run up to 9000 rpm, since each revolution would let 4 pole pairs pass, and each pole pair passing means there were 6 commutations steps. So as you enter pole pair in settings it will recalculate the RPM table. Pole pairs Max RPM of motor 4 9000 6 6000 12 3000 24 1500 And the reason some have a hard time is if you have 24 pole pair, with max rpm of 1500 and probably a base rpm (no flux weakening) of 600, the rpm you enter for rated RPM or max rpm cant be set too high or it will reject it and not save the new pole pair number. So you have to set the rpm lower when you try to set pole pairs higher.
Even if the Motor is in working condition and if you measure the continuity between each phases, it will always be shorted whether is it a Star connection or Delta, in any BLDC or PMSM Motors.
yes, that is correct. I have since learned more about winding configuration and the bit about continuity in the video is not explicit evidence of a short
I think you made problems by yourself when you shortened phase wires. Each strand is covered by enamel and you need to clean it to have low contact resistance.You just cuted extra length and pressed on new connection.Please correct me where I'm wrong.
you make a good point - I didn't think about whether the enamel would extent to the copper strands making up the phase wires themselves -- but obviously the phase wires are just extensions of the windings in side the motor. I'll having to inspect them and figure out if the enamel extends all the way to the terminal. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
I used sandpaper.Clean some 1 inch or a bit more.Then try to straighten all strands and look at shortest one.So you should cut all to shortest to use all strands to be pressed for lowest resistance possible.
@@qwantumijo again, thanks so much for bringing this to my attention. I checked and indeed I was crimping directly on top of enamel - not even making contact with copper..big mistake 😖 -- was this the reason for my motor overheating? maybe. but get this..I check the terminals that I cut off - the ones that come from the factory and cut the lugs to see the wire underneath...it was directly on enamel also! so at least when it comes to this motor from the factory - they are making the same mistake, probably to cut cost. I am going to make a video about this shortly and give you credit
So I just finished converting a Vespa with a QS motor and got a lot of good advise from retrospective mopeds 1.) Open the motor and count the magnets for pole pairs 2.) allot of people run QS motors with the temp sensor off and use the other temp on the controller 3.) sounds like typical customer service from china do a charge back on the first order
are chargebacks on aliexpress normally successful? I've been seriously considering a QS motor/controller for a conversion but failures like this coupled with shit support is pretty scary considering how expensive everything is.
I bought 7.5kw 72v motor and when I received motor was 48v and controller was 72v but no harness wire. When I asked for harness wire they says that we don’t have harness and even they don’t have harness drawing of EC750 controller. They wast my project, time and money
Would have been interesting to look inside the motor to see where it might have short circuited. Since the motor is going to a waste anyway, might as well disassemble it for the video?
just depends on which vendor you got it from and, honestly, luck. I haven't had any issues with "Siaecosys Official Store" on Aliexpress. Others, I cannot speak to
well I don't know if Im the right person to ask - my bike isnt even running. But in general, Fardriver controller is easiest to set up with QS motor since they are manufactured by the same Chinese company (SiAECOSYS). Just be careful which vendor you use - the new controller I got here is definitely higher quality than the one I was using before the bike failed. If you watch the video, you will see the Aliexpress store name that I used (QS Motor Limited) -- I do NOT recommend you buy from them. For BMS, ANT BMS has worked well for me but just know that it does not do active balancing - over time your cells will get out of balance even with the BMS
@@AubreyGregson just depends on your use-case. Hub motor is simpler, usually cheaper, more quiet, and you have more room for the battery. downsides are that you have a ton of unsung weight in the back wheel and reinforcing the dropouts becomes an issue. then you run into issues if you get a flat or need to service the wheel. if you're planning to ride off-road I'd say hub motor is a bad choice. If it's mostly for street riding then hub motor is a good choice also
I would not hesitate to return this motor and tell them this part has been delivered as DOA (dead on arrival) even tho you tested it. You can simply prove it by all your video or image material. From my experience so far the quality on electronic items manufactured in China is moderate or low. I don't mess around with these guys.
this is not correct. you can overvolt a motor by a significant margin. many people run this motor above 72V and I am currently running it on a working bike at 100V, and have been for months. the issue here was the terminal lugs being crimped on top of enameled wire
@@GaiusGarage It is and isnt correct. You can mod a stock engine and bring it up to a level where its performing as well as some more expensive motors, but it will not be stock any more. The same applies to electromotors, you can pull through more voltage and amps if you want, but for how long it will function, is no gaurantee. There is a reason this motor is rated at 72v.
@@Yes-sw8gh yes that is correct - there will be more stress on the components, specifically coil winging insulation, magnetic saturation of the rotor magnets, and mechanical stresses due to increases speed. but all of these are very negligible when it comes to 20-30V difference. I'm sure there will be difference, but it could be something like 1 mile for every 10,000. I'm just making up the numbers but the point is that you will probably never put enough miles on these motors for it to make a difference. This definitely changed if you run the motor at 200V but overvolting is pretty forgiving
No that is not a genuine qs motor affilate ,hands down the most reliable and very high QC ive seen is Siaecosys have direct agreements and also design and manufacture their own controllers too
1. People run qs motors on 28s all the time. 2. I run my nd72530 controller with the motor temp sensor turned off and MOE protect off 3. My nd72530 with my qs138 v3 autotuned to 4 pole pairs and it seems fine. Hope this helps
thank you! yeah, I've since figured all of this out. the issue was that whoever assembled this motor did not bother to clean the enamel from the phase wires when crimping the terminal lugs. This cause extreme resistance and heating. the voltage is 100% not an issue. 4 poles pairs refers actually to poles of the RMF in the stator - in fact, this is still wrong because the RMF has 4 poles not 4 pole *pairs. I had to buy a new motor but it's now running as cool as the controller on 96V. Did not have to turn off the temp sensor either
4 pole pairs is correct! It sees coil pole pairs . And it's not a bug , they don't know what they are talking about . That's how Fardriver drives the motor with coils
Yes, I left that who thing out of this video because - well I was too lazy to do the editing to explain that whole thing - but that's so much for your help on this!
4 pole pairs it not correct. And anyone who understands what a 3-phase motor is knows you can’t have 4 pairs of coils (8 coils). The correct pole pairs for this motor is 5 and it will set correctly if done correctly.
I think you chose too small of a motor, the ones I saw, highest was a 4kw motor, go cart motor for kids, next time invest more time in size motor you need. I advise a 6kw motor
If you bought a five poles 3 phase motor from ali express make sure to send it to NASA because it is a quantum motor... motors can have 2 poles, 4 poles 6, poles 8poles etc. How can this chunk have 5 poles??
@@somegame1929 the kw ratings on these motors are for continuous power and very conservative. the power I cited was peak not continuous and people run these at a wide range of power levels much greater than 12kw. I've since solved this issue and determined that it was the controller not the motor that was the issue. the new motor I have no longer overheats even at 25kW
Believe it or not you can buy both 72 v motor and controller of 3000w for like 400 dollars. The good thing is that they are made in India.. One big thing I noticed your motor doesn't have a fan..
this is honestly way too much for them. you just got to tell them it doesn't work and you want a refund. Better off trying to figure out these problems with other customers that have a similar set up and not from the manufacturer unfortunately .
The people who you contact, hoping for technical support 🙏 , know nothing technical , I have had to send pictures to communicate with them. Frustrating to say the least. You apparently got a lemon, maybe? Usually qs motors make motors that can just about within reason take a lot more power than your average or cheap Chinese products 🤔, but they like all Chinese products have problems, bought qs7250 controller, specifically so I could program it with the Bluetooth on my phone, couldn't get their program to download on any phone. I threw it away
I put up another video after this ruclips.net/video/HNDqLJDV5gE/видео.html where I discovered exactly how this motor I got was faulty - it's absolutely egregious and I still can't believe the Aliexpress shop from which I had the misfortune of ordering would sell these this way - it's quite literally without exaggeration a fire hazard, and thats exactly what happened in my case. I have the particular shop linked in that video description to warn others but yeah, it's a real issue dealing with these Chinese vendors because you have basically no recourse, legal or otherwise
No my friend it didn’t short circuit it you short circuited it you should have shut it down when it didn’t function properly I’ve learned for working on many things from giant diesel equipment used in mining to electric weed wackers when you notice something’s off shut it down as fast as possible it’s easier and usually cheaper to fix it if it comes apart running also haha your not a dumb person you have some understanding of electricy you should know better then to trust anything on the internet
If it's a QS motor..go to the website... Whatever brand you buy..call that brand for instructions 🙄dude... because I can sell you anything..😤it's up to you if buy it to have common sense to take care of what your buying 🧐
Pole pairs are only used to calculate the right rpms. For your speedometer for example.
Ah
How to write it correctly
@Gauis if I may ask you please about an issue with my QS 3KW mid e-motor that locks up. I also have a Fardriver 84v530a controller that heats up, the temperature sensor is set to 2-NTC230K. Thank you 😊
its hard to diagnose these sorts of issues without more details. I offer 1:1 meeting where you can describe the issue and show with video. it's $25, but if I can't help you I will refund the cost. please book a session here: calendly.com/gaiusgarage/15-minute-consult
Motor overheating have nothing to do with overvolting. As long as the motor does not go overRPM it is fine.. and the voltage the motor see is always proportionnal to the rotationnal speed.. it have a kv factor (rpm per volt). What make a motor to overheat is CURRENT. If you Double the phase current you quadruple the heat. if you double the volt ( rpm of the motor) you double the heat.
How much amps should be
You are right the over voltage issue does not matter I run my QS 72v motor at 96V no problem at all
I would say the motor had some problems and I do not think the controller would have damaged the motor either
yeah you are 100% right - the issue was not the voltage -- they were just straight up lying. The issue was that a) Im dumb and crimped the terminal lugs on top of enameled copper BUT I checked the original crimps and b) THEY crimped the terminal lugs over enameled copper, which is just outright negligence. I have a video on my channel detailing that debacle (ruclips.net/video/HNDqLJDV5gE/видео.html ) the AliExpress store eventually refunded $225 to me. Never mind the motor with shipping was like $600
Yeah voltage has no real input on temperature, it all comes down to current so whether it was voltage or amps, it wasn't rated correctly or setup right in the first place. Sorry for your experience.
Then what causes it?
It's the current. Voltage × amps = motor watts. This is why high power bikes use high voltage as they can run lower amps and get the same power with less heat. Example..... 20a × 48v = 960w
20a × 72v= 1440w. More power for the same amount of current keeps the heat down. Current kills motors, not voltage. Yes you can give a motor so much voltage it destroys itself from spinning so fast as a motor has a simple rpm per v. Increase the voltage and you increase the total rpm and at a point it will become unstable.
@@Nalladalla32 and also what causes the controller to break down
Why rear sprocket is so big?
hello i have the same motor from ali express but i got it from sia tech but it wont run an auto learn and when i try to ride it wont move but once its up in the air in runs fine i dont know if my battery is to weak or my throttle is to weak my battery says it 72v40ah but that all it says i was makin my own battery out of 18650 cells so i ordered a jdb 150a 20s bms so i might switch it with the battery i have to see if it works
Was the other stuff from Ali?
I cant believe they would actually tell people to turn off the temp sensor. should've stayed with your best judgement. but motor was probably faulty either way - wouldve just prolonged the inevitable
i bought a qs138 motor kit from ebay, newdoon ebikes.. same exact thing happened.
@@uranuz300 really sucks. I've had other components that I order come in faulty or damaged. then it's always a back & forth where they deny any responsibility
It turns out pole pair has nothing too much set to 4 or better6 . So frustrating at first!! . Pay close attention to pid / KI settings, and angle . I fried my phaze wires once . 86v-100.8 is fine!! Youre better fixing the KI to mids ,and keep the numbers close . Play with that angle till it feels best . Had all the problems you had , but now is it running better?
Edit . The biggest problem was a loose wire ( unseeable) broke wire in the hall sensor wire! Super hard to find . But pid was off also
Today I disassembled the new motor, and it turned out that the wires are just pressed on and it's not soldered tin at all, terrible processing, qs138/90, I had to take everything apart, clean it and fly
Where did you go to download the app?
Thank you for your information.. I am planning on building a tricycle with one of QS138 90H . Any feedback on the new motor will be greatly appreciated
Is the new seller of any good ?
the new motor is running but also been heating up rather quickly - I've narrowed the problem down to settings in the controller. I adjusted some of the PID setting and the motor doesn't run as hot but still not so cool. The issue is really the controller, and specifically the app used to program. It's really terribly designed and you can't change certain settings due to bugs. support is also terrible and rarely useful. I think you should be ok with this motor but I wouldnt use the Fardriver controller - the app and support really sucks
Thank you…So I guess go for the motor but pair it with a different controller ..
What controller model are you using
i@@benardopoku3538 Im still using the Fardriver controller because its what I purchased (twice) so I'm kinda committed here. The controller itself is ok, I guess but its really the app used to program that's the issue. Ive tried on iphone & android and some setting just cant be changed. I asked support about this and they give me a variety of response from "its a bug" to "its not supposed to be changed" meanwhile, it clearly the kind of option that needs to be configured to properly calibrate the controller. There's a PC app as well but it's pretty much un-usable. Alot of these controllers from China have terrible configuration software. I also have a Kelly controller and at the very least the settings are able to be changed but the software is buggy also (I have a video setting up a Kelly controller as well). Ultimately its a "pick your poison" kind of thing
Choose your poison exactly.. I have been following one guy on configuring and usage of the Votol em150s and 200s with the qs138 motors and it seems to be working fine and the software is stable per what was saying and the tests rides but that’s the PC version of the software..
I will still be following up on that , as it stands it seems I will go with the votol controller with the qs motor..
@@benardopoku3538 yeah I see a lot of people using Votol controllers with these motors. I chose Fardriver because its made by the same manufacturer so figured it would be a quick plug & play. This project was meant to be a quick & dirty build to have some fun on while I work on a more complex project, but now its a while thing : /
What size sprocket are you using?
I was told that you can go up to 27s 99.9v battery but keep it at 10kw base power. Peek at no more than 28kw. Or risk blowing it.
the motor is repairable ,its just wether you have the patience and or time
indeed! I've since sold it for parts
The problem is Aliexpress Seller don’t care about Customer service and reputation 😂
yeah for sure - they know people will not return items because of the shipping cost and can always spin up a new clone store
It’s the reason why I order it directly from QS motor 😉
You have to understand that the fardriver like most controllers cannot determine pole pairs. The only way it could if if there was an extra magnet and hall sensor counting revolutions. Of course its default is 4, but you can set it as high as 30.
Also as will all controllers, pole pairs doesn’t matter. The controller doesn’t care. Its ONLY used as an rpm reference. This is what the rep was trying to say. You can leave it at 4 and calibrate everything around it. But who does that nonsense? Lol
One more thing to understand is the Fardriver can support up to 216,000 commutations per minute. That means the STM32, the mosfet drivers, the mosfets can only change a maximum of 216,000 times per minute.
Another basic principle to understand is that each time a positive pole magnet passes a specific hall sensor, there will be 6 commutations before the next positive pole crosses that same hall sensor. In other words, this controller can handle 36,000 positive poles passing a specific hall sensor per minute. And as we know for each positive pole there is one pole pair.
Ok, so default it has 4 pole pairs. And if we divide 36,000 by 4 pole pairs we get 9000 rpm, and thats why the rpm table automatically populates to 9000. If you set 5 pole pairs, top RPM in the table will automatically be set to 7200. With 24 pole pairs top rpm is 1500.
Keep in mind this is MAX RPM the controller can handle, and that includes extended RPM from flux Weakening. Which can be as high as 200%. So if you set rated RPM above 3600 rpm (50% of max supported speed of the controller) with 5 pole pairs or try to set 5 pole pairs after rated rpm is set above 3600 , it will reject it.
These settings are preparing the far driver for autotune. After running autotune it will reset the rated RPM higher automatically to a higher value well into flux weakening territory.
Later you can go tailor each rpm in the table to taper off at the rpm you don’t want due to flux weakening causing amps to shoot through the roof. If all were left at 100% then under certain situations it would pull more amps, get weaker, pull more amps, get even weaker, then peg the amps. So by setting the current limit for certain rpm it will not get in that region.
I can’t understand the parts where you said there is 6 sensors for one sensor. There is more if the rotor is a 5 pole pairs?
@@timpuyau6161 , 6 commutation steps. Not 6 sensors. Commutation is when the current in the phase wires change because the mosfet states are changed. All 3 phase BLDC motors have 6 commutation steps because there are 6 possible ways to run power through the phase wires.
For example when the mosfets for phase A connect battery (+) and the mosfets for phase B connect battery (-), electrons will flow in phase A, through its coils, and then out phase A, through its coils. This creates a set of electromagnetics which pull or push on the permanent magnetics.
Once the motor has moved to a position where the the magnets cant be pulled or oushed effectively, the hall sensor sense that and tell the controller to go to the next commutation step. So it switches the mosfets and turns off the mosfets for phase A and connects phase C to battery (+) and that turns off all phase A coils and turns on all phase C coils, which can now push or pull on the permanent magnets.
By having 6 steps, the controller can always apply force to turn the motor in the correct direction.
@@imho7250 ok I’m understand,
So eRPM = pole pairs x rpm
Frequency processeur = 6 x pole pairs x RPM?
And it’s the rotor pole pair that count or the pole pair of the stator?
@@imho7250 i have a book for electric motor and talk about brushless and pole pairs only for the rotor
@@timpuyau6161 the processor frequency is higher because it has to do other calculations and vary how long the mosfets connect to the battery based on the desired current.
When all that and the frequency at which the mosfets can be switched, it was determined by the manufacturer that in order to allow everything enough time to do its job, that it can only support 216,000 commutations per minute, with the understanding that within each commutation it needs turn the mosfets on and off many times to control current based on throttle settings and other variables.
So 216,000/6 commutations is 36000 pole pairs per minute that can pass by the hall sensors. So with 4 pole pairs, the motor can run up to 9000 rpm, since each revolution would let 4 pole pairs pass, and each pole pair passing means there were 6 commutations steps.
So as you enter pole pair in settings it will recalculate the RPM table.
Pole pairs Max RPM of motor
4 9000
6 6000
12 3000
24 1500
And the reason some have a hard time is if you have 24 pole pair, with max rpm of 1500 and probably a base rpm (no flux weakening) of 600, the rpm you enter for rated RPM or max rpm cant be set too high or it will reject it and not save the new pole pair number. So you have to set the rpm lower when you try to set pole pairs higher.
Even if the Motor is in working condition and if you measure the continuity between each phases, it will always be shorted whether is it a Star connection or Delta, in any BLDC or PMSM Motors.
yes, that is correct. I have since learned more about winding configuration and the bit about continuity in the video is not explicit evidence of a short
@@GaiusGarage Did you rewind the Motor? If yes what are the winding parameters such as, number of turns, wire gauge and number of wires in one strand?
@@jppatel4831 I actually did not, and didn't count the windings. just ended up selling for parts
I think you made problems by yourself when you shortened phase wires. Each strand is covered by enamel and you need to clean it to have low contact resistance.You just cuted extra length and pressed on new connection.Please correct me where I'm wrong.
you make a good point - I didn't think about whether the enamel would extent to the copper strands making up the phase wires themselves -- but obviously the phase wires are just extensions of the windings in side the motor. I'll having to inspect them and figure out if the enamel extends all the way to the terminal. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
@@GaiusGarage I already cleaned 84 strands for one phase.I have qs138 70h.
@@qwantumijo what do you use to clean them?
I used sandpaper.Clean some 1 inch or a bit more.Then try to straighten all strands and look at shortest one.So you should cut all to shortest to use all strands to be pressed for lowest resistance possible.
@@qwantumijo again, thanks so much for bringing this to my attention. I checked and indeed I was crimping directly on top of enamel - not even making contact with copper..big mistake 😖 -- was this the reason for my motor overheating? maybe. but get this..I check the terminals that I cut off - the ones that come from the factory and cut the lugs to see the wire underneath...it was directly on enamel also! so at least when it comes to this motor from the factory - they are making the same mistake, probably to cut cost. I am going to make a video about this shortly and give you credit
Does that far driver controller have a learning function so it can detect the correct phase order/combo?
it has a learning function but if you're using the Fardriver controller and qs motor, the phase wires are colored accordingly
I have seen this before but just once ,.when brand new QS.Motors QS138 90H had damaged windings .!
How much if i buy the old?
I already sold it actually..think for $200
The sensor wires are wrong over heated the motor and melted it
So I just finished converting a Vespa with a QS motor and got a lot of good advise from retrospective mopeds
1.) Open the motor and count the magnets for pole pairs
2.) allot of people run QS motors with the temp sensor off and use the other temp on the controller
3.) sounds like typical customer service from china do a charge back on the first order
are chargebacks on aliexpress normally successful? I've been seriously considering a QS motor/controller for a conversion but failures like this coupled with shit support is pretty scary considering how expensive everything is.
Don’t do a charge back through Ali express, go through your bank
I bought 7.5kw 72v motor and when I received motor was 48v and controller was 72v but no harness wire. When I asked for harness wire they says that we don’t have harness and even they don’t have harness drawing of EC750 controller. They wast my project, time and money
Would have been interesting to look inside the motor to see where it might have short circuited. Since the motor is going to a waste anyway, might as well disassemble it for the video?
Yeah, definitely planning to do this. Don't have experience winding a motor but might at as well give it a shot
Wait… does this mean I got scammed for the kit I recently ordered that is coming next week?!? Plz help!
just depends on which vendor you got it from and, honestly, luck. I haven't had any issues with "Siaecosys Official Store" on Aliexpress. Others, I cannot speak to
Hello, which bms and controller do you recommend for the qs138 3000w 70H engine
well I don't know if Im the right person to ask - my bike isnt even running. But in general, Fardriver controller is easiest to set up with QS motor since they are manufactured by the same Chinese company (SiAECOSYS). Just be careful which vendor you use - the new controller I got here is definitely higher quality than the one I was using before the bike failed. If you watch the video, you will see the Aliexpress store name that I used (QS Motor Limited) -- I do NOT recommend you buy from them. For BMS, ANT BMS has worked well for me but just know that it does not do active balancing - over time your cells will get out of balance even with the BMS
Third party customer service. I used to deal with that as a Lyft driver 😂😂
I had a far driver that did this to a hub motor . Yellow and blue hall wires were wrong in the motor . It ran but over heated and melted the motor
How did you notice this?
color of wires does not matter
I asked QSM what oil I should use in my QS138 V3 and how often it should be changed, they replied with, not necessary to change the oil. 🤔
I have another video where I teardown this motor. There is no oil in the motor to change
@@GaiusGarage I'm referring to the geared version of the 138 motor.
QS recommends 45ml of 85-140 gear oil , or Motul Motylgear 75-90 for the V3 motor. The motor in this RUclips is not a V3 motor
What frame is this?
Kawasaki KLX250
I appreciate the response. I subscribed!
@@AubreyGregson Thank you!
One other question I had. I’m looking to build a bike. Is it worth spending the extra money to build a mid engine vs a hub engine?
@@AubreyGregson just depends on your use-case. Hub motor is simpler, usually cheaper, more quiet, and you have more room for the battery. downsides are that you have a ton of unsung weight in the back wheel and reinforcing the dropouts becomes an issue. then you run into issues if you get a flat or need to service the wheel. if you're planning to ride off-road I'd say hub motor is a bad choice. If it's mostly for street riding then hub motor is a good choice also
I would not hesitate to return this motor and tell them this part has been delivered as DOA (dead on arrival) even tho you tested it. You can simply prove it by all your video or image material. From my experience so far the quality on electronic items manufactured in China is moderate or low. I don't mess around with these guys.
What seller on aliexpress? Aliexpress is must an online market place.
specific seller is in the description - "QS Motor Limited" .. definitely avoid!
a resistor on the breaker could safe the life of that motor
You should not use higher voltage than what is said on the motor. It should be only 72v.
this is not correct. you can overvolt a motor by a significant margin. many people run this motor above 72V and I am currently running it on a working bike at 100V, and have been for months. the issue here was the terminal lugs being crimped on top of enameled wire
@@GaiusGarage can you show us the damage part? I mean thosw wires that you are saying
@@christianpaulroldan4010 check out this video where I show the motor and the issue with the terminal lugs ruclips.net/video/HNDqLJDV5gE/видео.html
@@GaiusGarage It is and isnt correct. You can mod a stock engine and bring it up to a level where its performing as well as some more expensive motors, but it will not be stock any more. The same applies to electromotors, you can pull through more voltage and amps if you want, but for how long it will function, is no gaurantee. There is a reason this motor is rated at 72v.
@@Yes-sw8gh yes that is correct - there will be more stress on the components, specifically coil winging insulation, magnetic saturation of the rotor magnets, and mechanical stresses due to increases speed. but all of these are very negligible when it comes to 20-30V difference. I'm sure there will be difference, but it could be something like 1 mile for every 10,000. I'm just making up the numbers but the point is that you will probably never put enough miles on these motors for it to make a difference. This definitely changed if you run the motor at 200V but overvolting is pretty forgiving
You had a faulty motor .there are soo many people with success Builds, one guy in India pushed 52kW peak though qs138 90h..
Nice .. will you be able to provide a link to that video ?
@@benardopoku3538 There is a video but I can't share it nor I can tell who exactly did it as they are in preproduction stage..
@@benardopoku3538 Here's one very successful buiod with QS138 70H V3 ruclips.net/channel/UCnyX_vDkea2QaREpGeW84kA
@@benardopoku3538 ruclips.net/user/ELMOFO
@@benardopoku3538 More Builds with QS138 70H V3 and 90H ruclips.net/channel/UClHanulCStaPoetTAStPcyw
No that is not a genuine qs motor affilate ,hands down the most reliable and very high QC ive seen is Siaecosys have direct agreements and also design and manufacture their own controllers too
Qs motor does actually sell direct from their website too
im positive though yours isnt a genuine qs motor its a clone
that is correct. I have purchased from them since and so far so good
1. People run qs motors on 28s all the time.
2. I run my nd72530 controller with the motor temp sensor turned off and MOE protect off
3. My nd72530 with my qs138 v3 autotuned to 4 pole pairs and it seems fine.
Hope this helps
thank you! yeah, I've since figured all of this out. the issue was that whoever assembled this motor did not bother to clean the enamel from the phase wires when crimping the terminal lugs. This cause extreme resistance and heating. the voltage is 100% not an issue. 4 poles pairs refers actually to poles of the RMF in the stator - in fact, this is still wrong because the RMF has 4 poles not 4 pole *pairs. I had to buy a new motor but it's now running as cool as the controller on 96V. Did not have to turn off the temp sensor either
how do you like the ND72530 controller ? Im debating about buying one to replace Votol EM-150/S
@@manaoakes3062 upgraded to the 72850. It was decent. Few issues of it shutting down after hard braking. Changing over to shul controllers
4 pole pairs is correct! It sees coil pole pairs .
And it's not a bug , they don't know what they are talking about .
That's how Fardriver drives the motor with coils
Yes, I left that who thing out of this video because - well I was too lazy to do the editing to explain that whole thing - but that's so much for your help on this!
4 pole pairs it not correct. And anyone who understands what a 3-phase motor is knows you can’t have 4 pairs of coils (8 coils). The correct pole pairs for this motor is 5 and it will set correctly if done correctly.
If I don’t get it on Ali express where tf do I buy it 😭
whole bunch of different vendors on Aliexpress - don't use the one in the description. prob some others are bad..definitely some good ones too
I think you chose too small of a motor, the ones I saw, highest was a 4kw motor, go cart motor for kids, next time invest more time in size motor you need. I advise a 6kw motor
Los productos de Ali exprés no llegan y tampoco dan la devolucion solo te rroban
If you bought a five poles 3 phase motor from ali express make sure to send it to NASA because it is a quantum motor... motors can have 2 poles, 4 poles 6, poles 8poles etc. How can this chunk have 5 poles??
10 poles, 5 pole pairs. but I'll send it to NASA anyway, maybe they can use it as a door stop
Seems ok
That's gotta be frustrating!!
yep, same thing happened to me
Flux capacitor my friend...
😂
You are fuqqing with us, right?
Lol
It says right there on a motor 4kW and you say you “only” ran
12kW?? too funny
@@somegame1929 the kw ratings on these motors are for continuous power and very conservative. the power I cited was peak not continuous and people run these at a wide range of power levels much greater than 12kw. I've since solved this issue and determined that it was the controller not the motor that was the issue. the new motor I have no longer overheats even at 25kW
That’s not QS Motors you are corresponding with….
Change the trhootle
Believe it or not you can buy both 72 v motor and controller of 3000w for like 400 dollars. The good thing is that they are made in India..
One big thing I noticed your motor doesn't have a fan..
this is honestly way too much for them. you just got to tell them it doesn't work and you want a refund. Better off trying to figure out these problems with other customers that have a similar set up and not from the manufacturer unfortunately .
😿😔 I was really looking forward to you having some fun on this. I am planning my own conversion of a Yamaha 150cc commuter bike.
haha same - hopefully the next video will be some fun riding - either that or I'm throwing this bike into a garbage compactor
Ok so I don’t buy from that seller.
If 🙄you don't know what your buying 🧐 don't buy it... knowing is key
The people who you contact, hoping for technical support 🙏 , know nothing technical , I have had to send pictures to communicate with them. Frustrating to say the least. You apparently got a lemon, maybe? Usually qs motors make motors that can just about within reason take a lot more power than your average or cheap Chinese products 🤔, but they like all Chinese products have problems, bought qs7250 controller, specifically so I could program it with the Bluetooth on my phone, couldn't get their program to download on any phone. I threw it away
I put up another video after this ruclips.net/video/HNDqLJDV5gE/видео.html where I discovered exactly how this motor I got was faulty - it's absolutely egregious and I still can't believe the Aliexpress shop from which I had the misfortune of ordering would sell these this way - it's quite literally without exaggeration a fire hazard, and thats exactly what happened in my case. I have the particular shop linked in that video description to warn others but yeah, it's a real issue dealing with these Chinese vendors because you have basically no recourse, legal or otherwise
No my friend it didn’t short circuit it you short circuited it you should have shut it down when it didn’t function properly I’ve learned for working on many things from giant diesel equipment used in mining to electric weed wackers when you notice something’s off shut it down as fast as possible it’s easier and usually cheaper to fix it if it comes apart running also haha your not a dumb person you have some understanding of electricy you should know better then to trust anything on the internet
It's 🙄called warranty.... I believe this video is looking for the word 🤣😂 warranty...😳u-sir-are-as-is....... sorry 😐 not sorry 🤪
If it's a QS motor..go to the website... Whatever brand you buy..call that brand for instructions 🙄dude... because I can sell you anything..😤it's up to you if buy it to have common sense to take care of what your buying 🧐