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The Mechanical Marvel of Double Escape Wrist Motion
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- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2019
- Let's take a look at a common and yet little-understood motion in picking technique: the double escape pickstroke. When performed with the wrist, it's a marvel of mechanical evolution that many players aren't even aware they're using. Learn more with the Pickslanting Primer! troygrady.com/primer/wrist-mo...
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"Get in, get better, get out."
Massive respect for that line, Troy. Your product is incredible, and your free content here on your channel is just as incredible. You continue to be the best resource on RUclips for deep study of picking mechanics. Keep up the amazing work!
This is groundbreaking. Thanks for all your work researching and documenting these approaches!
The level of detail in this seemingly simple concept is amazing
I've always tried to be inspired when seeing incredible guitar technique, without letting myself be intimidated by it, but...
...Molly Tuttle truly frightens me.
😂😂
A gift to the musical world as always Troy
I am coming from a piano background. I learned piano incorrectly, got terrible carple tunnel and meta tunnel could barely play for a decade, retaught myself, healed my wrists and now am tackling strings. Thank you for this information. Very informative. Would-be interested in working with you all on a piano project. I have a lot to say about "correct" technique.... Nothing is "right" but some ways of playing CAN injure you!
I'm fairly certain this is the best current explanation for Guthrie Govan's alternate picking technique too. If you reference his 32nd note strumming video, it has a good look into his picking hand. I believe he's constantly muting with the meaty/fleshy bit of his palm closer to the thumb side and rarely let's that go for single picked lines, and his downstrokes are coming off the plane of the strings at the 2-o-clock wrist position. If I try this, and use pinky anchoring ala Guthrie, my picking hand feels like its almost apart of the guitar. Just speculating. Incredible Troy, your analysis has been even more refined this last year. Thank you so much!
Great information Troy as always.
If you ever get the chance could you do a picking technique video with John Browne of monuments. He has phenomenal down picking technique that looks quite unique.
Imo not really that unique, check Joscho Stephan for example ruclips.net/video/aPW3yYEqM1w/видео.html it's pretty much the same thing (the movement, maybe the grip itself is very slightly different). I believe Troy covered it already in one of his videos.
Troy is a pure genius!
Your videos are insane. Thank you!
Hey Troy! All the material you post is amazing! Wish it had spanish subtitles at least. Seriously the content in your page is useful for every guitarist in the world. Regards from Argentina!
Fascinating stuff as always Troy.
I myself am still trying to figure out exactly what my picking technique is and what I can do to reach my goals -- might give these new motions a try.
From what I can understand, the basic motion (at least in Andy's case) is a small upward flick of the wrist with the upstroke and pretty much just letting the hand drop in the ulnar direction for the downstroke.
In actual practice this motion feels more like a flat side to side motion. The curved aspect is undetectable to the player and Andy himself can’t feel that he’s doing it. If you actually feel any up and down component, you’re probably making a motion that’s too bouncy, aka “stringhopping”
Thanks Troy!!great Job man!!
those animations are awesome
i use the exact technique that molly and david use, only my fingers are more extended, gently bouncing off the guitar body. i gently rest/partially float that meaty part of my thumb (the steak doneness muscle) on the bridge. that's how i can generate a downward slant. I can control the downward slant by the degree of pronation, and i can generate almost vertical downward slant if i bend my fingers like they do. If, for whatever reason, i need to come as close to supinating as i can get, i plant my pinky on the body and raise my palm a few mm off the bridge (so floating hand with planted picky).
Good stuff Troy
Could you do a play through and break down of Steve vai crossroads solo at the end of the film based on the 5th caprice. I’ve heard vai alternate picks the whole peace. To this day I think this is a masterpiece of guitar playing. Thanks Troy. Keep up the good work.
Great stuff!
The last two examples, where the variable is the pronation and supination, the main cause may be the instrument itself. Eletric guitars are thinner, which keeps the elbow closer to your body, while the acoustic guitar keeps the elbow far from your body, but in both cases, the strings are perpendicular to the floor, so the angle of approach changes, but not the extention in the upstroke. It's not pronation or supination per se, but the angle in which the forearm is because of the thickness of the instrument keeping the elbow close or far from your body.
God dam genious Mr. Troy, luv ya man x
Jeezus that feels weird!
But new techniques always do.
👍
Beautiful.
I feel like I've developed some form of double escape pick motion over the years naturally, working on my alternate picking still thinking in the Outside/inside string picking mindset and working the harder one for me (outside). How does this compare to two way pickslanting? Is one faster than the other, or less of a speed limit? Do we need to pick one method? How does it all compare with economy picking?
is this also applicable to some of the eric johnson licks on "cliffs of dover" especially the last cadence of the intro?
Thanks Troy! Absolutely amazing in its helpfulness video. What I really wonder is where the borderline is between DE motion and "stringhopping".
There's not a "border", per se. They're just different movements. Stringhopping uses the same muscles on the downstroke and the upstroke, while efficient double escape uses different muscles and is "alternate" picking in the truest sense of the term, i.e. half the muscles rest while the other half works. In general, stringhopping will produce arm tension and a speed limit. Efficient motions don't have arm tension and don't feel like they have a speed limit. So the simplest thing you can do is make sure you can go fast first, even if it's sloppy - like a teenager would who is just simulating "air guitar" on a real guitar. If you can do that, at real playing speeds, and don't feel any particular muscle strain, that's the best test we have for knowing if you have a found a motion that is efficient. It's ok if the notes are all wrong, you have to start somewhere. And efficient motion with wrong notes is a better starting point than stringhopping motions with 100% correct notes, which is where a lot of people get stuck.
@@troygrady Heh, yeah.. that's exactly what I'm trying to unlearn right now. Thanks for guidance!
Amazing detail as always..but I have a question...how different is this from cross picking (Carl Mine Style)?
I am currently trying to improve my right hand picking technique. What is your take on two way pick slanting vs double escaped wrist? How do they compare? How do I choose which to use?
The two ways of doing this are reminiscent somehow of the difference between french and German grip on the drums except obviously you only have down strokes in drums, I don’t really understand what’s happening quite yet but your video has already made me look at things differently. Would be interesting to see a comparison of Thomas Lang and jojo Mayers molar technique in relation to your amazing clock diagram. I’m a guitar player who plays drums and drums made me re-examine my picking technique and helped a lot and then I found pick slanting.
Very similar! German grip wrist motion is closer to 12 to 6 flexion-extension motion. French grip is more what we call a "dart thrower" motion, not quite 9 to 3 deviation, but very close to it: 10 to 4.
After spending time with this I noticed I was varying the technique to reach the higher strings using a little extension to reach the higher pitched strings and a little extension to reach the lower. I’m guessing this is the cause of my inaccuracy cus it literally created chaos. Do people use a little of both like 10 -4 motion you mentioned with the french. I may not be explaining myself correctly cus I don’t have a very topographical brain but one technique takes advantage of flexion to change the angle of the pick and one extension never a bit of both
Very cool
I'd love to see you do this with George Benson.
I would love to see a fast downstroke metal player analysis
Maybe any ideas about downpicking?
Does anyone know of a Vocal Coach that has a similar, detailed approach as troy?
You might look into Complete Vocal Technique:
completevocal.institute/complete-vocal-technique/
In particular, the concept of the four Vocal Modes has really helped me.
I have been working best I can alone from the book--and improving--but the website lists certified teachers.
Happy Teacher's Day Troy. It's Teacher's Day in India
Thanks!
This is all so cool! I'd love it if you analyzed Bryan Sutton as opposed to this type, as he preaches a very very forearm-based technique. Even when playing fast. I tried for a year to make it work and just couldn't seem to for me. I'd love to hear you break it down. Maybe I was missing something.
Bryan has a double escape motion when playing slow, and it's a mix of wrist and forearm. When playing fast his technique appears to be mostly wrist, and it's no longer double escape. It's downstroke escape, with a 2 o'clock wrist motion, similar to what Andy Wood does when playing fast. There's a clip here on RUclips that someone shot over his shoulder at a festival where all of this is easy to see. To be clear, this is not a knock on Bryan - he's an amazing player. The genius of amazing players is that they learn a complex stew of motions without anyone teaching them, and switch between all these motions at a subconscious level.
@@troygrady thanks so much for the great reply, Troy. No, of course, and I don't mean to knock him either. He's a hero of mine, and I wasn't able to adapt to the tech. I'm really enjoying your work, and getting a lot from it. Cheers.
I notice the pronated player are mostly acoustic. Looks like it would would be a bit noisy on a high gain electric. Right?
4:00 proper alternate picking technique
I've watched all these videos and I understand how it all works. But my problem is that I just don't get enough practice time. My job sucks.
5 mins a day is enough. I can see an improvement every day even when I practice just 5-15 min a day. You can take your guitar with you and practice during lunch time. You might not progress as quickly as others that practice 4 hours a day but that shouldn't be a reason why you can't practice.
This is exactly how I pick too.
Is that involved in string hopping??
How is the double escape wrist motion that Andy Wood is doing in the very beginning different than the evil string hopping? It kinda looks just like it, but obviously must be something different.
Great question. The answer is that a stringhopping technique uses the same muscles on the upstroke and the downstroke, and gets tired roughly twice as fast. Here's the more technical explanation ( ruclips.net/video/LdLq0IVTXMc/видео.html ). Whereas a true alternate picking motion (regardless of escape) uses one set of muscles for the downstroke, and an opposing set for the way back. This way each "team" gets to rest 50% of the time. So visual appearance isn't really the differentiator - it's which muscles are being used. In theory, anyway. In practice most stringhopping techniques have a more pronounced bouncy appearance, but this isn't always the case. We get players who do double escape motions that look nice and flat but they complain about very low speed limits, and that's how you know.
Does nuno bettencourt utilize maximum supination?
Certainly looks like a supinated player, for sure. We can nit pick how much but yes, somewhere in the EVH / Lee / Morse ballpark.
Yusssse ne w TG content is always good
You should dig into Robert Fripp, his right hand technique is godlike.
neat
why didn’t you include martin miller in this his technique is also double escape motion
Martin is great of course, but this video is about wrist motion and the clock concept specifically, and that’s not really how Martin’s motion works.
@@troygrady is there any reasons why would one choose andy wood's technique (closed fist) over martin miller's anchoring ? both techniques seems to work with crosspicking
In general my advice is always to try all techniques and use whichever one you can actually get right now that works for the line you are trying to play. How many players can even play these lines, period, with speed and accuracy? Any technique is better than no technique.
Plz dig into Jake Workman !!! We need him!! Plz
AaaaaAAAAWWWW, Shit just got REAL!
Ok I've been working like a lunatic on my picking technique and I have been trying to replicate Andy's technique, I think I got it. the 2wps is working and I just need a couple of minutes of warm up but here's what I don't get,
HOW THE F*** DOES HE CROSSPICK SO FAST?
I can't get anywhere near those speeds on the 3 string rolls
If you start slow and try to get all the notes right, you’ll never reach fast speeds on roll patterns because the correct motions are too complicated to figure out. You have start at the target speed while allowing wrong notes to happen.
@@troygrady hey Troy, how do I eventually get rid of the missed notes as I reach for the higher speeds?
By gradually slowing down the fast and efficient form and trying to clean it up. The reason you can't speed up the slow form is because it's actually wrong. The fast form, even though it has musical mistakes, is actually more "correct" in terms of the motion. Check out this forum thread where we discuss the process in more detail: forum.troygrady.com/t/is-this-stringhopping-crosspicking-or/18594/5
Evh and steve.m same shape
Similar grip, similar arm position! There is footage of Eddie doing motions that look like double escape, but mostly at medium speeds. Eddie's really fast wrist motions still look like mostly like single escape to me.
No matter how hard I try I can’t apply this. I’m about to give up on guitar
Time to sit an work out...
I don't see a zero. Maybe I'm drunk
I use 3141592654 movement
That's definitely the best way!
I don't know how to not play this way. Lol
When i first saw your chanell, i didn´t trust you, Troy. I couldn't accept the fact, that i have to think about number of notes per string, because there are already so many things to think of, when you play, even more when you improvise. I think, there is some kind of machismo in playing arpeggios with alternate picking, beacause it's one of the most difficult things on the guitar.
Great players aren't really thinking during improvisation, on any instrument. All these things are memorized down to the level of the motions involved. It's not totally paint by numbers, there is still creativity. But the sequences of picking motions are memorized, because you wouldn't be able to do them fast otherwise.
@@troygrady I understand it, you need to play the notes one way or another. I just first came across one way pickslanting and found it too limiting. And than i saw the two way pickslanting video and than the crosspicking video and now i'm finally starting to get the results i want, thank you, Mr. Grady :)
For a moment i thought I clicked on an orthopedic video....
You could say that about a lot of our stuff!
@@troygrady I love it!
Chasing your tail.
Wtf am I watching?
Great stuff!!!!