Did NATO Really "Betray" Russia?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Putin seems to have some idea that NATO betrayed a poor Russia and has now left him no choice but to invade a far smaller nation. Is he justified? Of course not. But where did this idea in the Russian mindset come from?
Let's talk about a story of how after the Soviets fell, Russia felt weak, and didn't want to feel weak, even though they were weak.
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Honestly, if Russia don't like countries joining NATO, they should really try and stop giving Eastern European Countries reasons to join NATO.
Sadly they won’t, because like any kleptocrat they always want more
That´s basically what they missed for 30 years.
And with this, now everyone wants to join NATO.
@Emmanuel Goldstein 🇷🇺🤏🏻
LOL Finland and Sweden are idiots if they dont join now.
Honestly
"We created this Alliance in case you attacked other countries"
"That's slander! We're gonna invade another country to prove how wrong you are about us!"
The key moment for Russia's understanding of NATO was Yugoslavia. Russia even voted to stop Milosevic firstly.
Ah yes, that very “defensive” alliance which came to the aid of Bosnia Herzegovina and Croatia by bombing Serbia without direct provocation. Sounds like a “defensive” war to me!
Russia is perfectly fine with NATO not being a defensive alliance, it’s not fine with being its target anymore though.
💀
@@VlashrIt may have been uncalled for NATO to intervent in Yugoslavia/Serbia, but it sure was based of them to do so.
@@JmKrokY The point is not the intervention itself, Russian troops were here too, the point is what and how they are doing.
Absolutely inappropriate, sloppy, with numerous casualties among civilians and with the obvious goal of destroying, crushing, trampling.
It’s difficult to empathise with Russia’s view of NATO. When many NATO members spent much of their history as sworn enemies and bitter rivals. Britain and France. Britain and the USA. France and Germany. Poland and Germany. And on and on. The crimes that these nations had committed against each other, the wars they fought against each other throughout history are insane in their scale. Yet somehow they are now all united. It is no small feat. And it is not a feat of diplomacy alone.
There are some pretty extreme mental gymnastics that have to be made to think that everyone else is the bad guy. But even more so when those “bad guys” spent hundreds of years hating *each other* with a far greater intensity then they ever had for Russia.
I'm not empathising with Russia's View of NATO, but I can see why. I mean, as you said, NATO has members that were bitter rivals of eachother yet they stand united in the alliance. Not to mention, alot of NATO's members were once enemies of Russia in some form. Britain during the Great Game, America during the Cold War, Poland during the Partitions, France during the Napoleonic Wars, Germany in the World Wars, Türkiye during the times as the Ottoman Empire, the Baltics even during their times as an SSR, and now, Ukraine.
It's pretty terrifying for Russia's POV that their greatest enemies have united against them, obviously it doesnt justify their invasion of Ukraine but you can somewhat see why Russia is terrified of NATO. No matter how much NATO says they won't invade, they're on the direct border with Russia. Its like telling France as the Kaiser during 1900 that you won't invade them. They have every right to be terrified.
What they don't have the right to is invading Ukraine. Just some diplomacy with NATO and Ukraine while informing them that their expansion is getting too close to Russia's safespace would've helped. Hell, maybe even just continuing talks with the EU and NATO to improve their relations in order to deterr the idea of war between allies.
Nevertheless, In Russia's POV, Expanding ever closer to them means they plan to cut you off entirely. Why else is Türkiye, Denmark, and Japan all choke points for Russia's Navy? Coincidentally being NATO allies.
Russia had every ability to fix this situation, yet they didnt choose the best option.
@SUM The proverbial “west” has been doing an excellent job of quelling opposition since the end of WW2. Whether that’s good or bad is, I suppose, is a matter of opinion, but it is a fact.
The USA dominates the entire western hemisphere and the only other players in that game are Canada, Mexico, and Brazil… all USA Allies to varying degrees. Japan, SK, the PI, Thailand, Australia, and NZ are all western Allies to varying degrees. Effectively all of Europe are western to varying degrees. Israel and to an extent Egypt and Saudi (Lebanon, Syria, and Georgia have flirted with moving west… especially Georgia) are western Allies.
Look at a world map and there is really no threat and aside from internal division there can’t be one. It’s an extremely stacked deck in favor of no WW3, no movement away from democracy/republics, no movement away from from some form of capitalism with some socialist undertones.
If your Russia, China, NK, Iran, or anything of that ilk… the map is very very ugly. There’s a lot of reason to be angry and afraid.
I am perfectly fine with this and moving more and more countries in to this hodgepodge of an alliance (stated like NATO, or in obvious but unstated ways) is perfectly fine with me.
The world has not gone this long without a major war in a long time. So frankly, fuq Russia and China, fight each other if it’s so exciting for you… leave the rest of us alone.
It doesnt matter what theyve commited, if your goals align you will be allied. Poland and n-zi Germany were all too happy to divide Czechoslovakia but later n-zi Germany divided Poland to 0.
Nothing personal, just personal gain.
Current Poland and Germany arent any better.
All stay in alliances for personal gain, nothing else. And neither of those countries are independent any longer, theyreall usa whores.
spent hundreds of years hating each other with a far greater intensity then they ever had for Russia. - Thats a total lie and bs lmao.
And Germany is only 200 years old. Germany never 'hated' Poland, Germany was always stronger than Poland since it was created and always dominated. There was no reality in which Poland could be a real threat to Germany or its people. They just always saw Poland as lesser, it didnt just start during world ar 2. Doesnt matter if its Germany, Prussia or Austria-Hungary were talking about, Poland was never a serious enemy to them because Poland managed to make enemies of *all* major empires that surrounded it, hence the 4 partitions. But I bet you dont think its Polands fault lmao am I right? If everyone dogpiles on you its only youre fault when youre Russia, but not your fault if youre Poland. Cause obviously.
But Poland always hated Russia because Poland was once an Empire that Russia conquered and was only able to shake that control a couple of times for a couple of brief periods. Same goes for all the pigmy countries that were a part of it once. And now in order to weaken Russia all those pigmy states are being used as pawns in a great game. Nothing more, nothing less.
Divide and conquer is as old as balls.
Thats where most of the hate comes from you muppet. Theyre salty fks that think they were so great they could avenge their shameful defeat and USA sponsors this circus because it suits them in order to weaken Russia. Nothing could be more simple. Same way it uses separatists in Taiwan to weaken China and sets Japan on China as well, same as they used Kosovo in Yugoslavia because Yugoslavia was a power to be reckoned with - and now its not because theyre all separated and weak af. USA fkn hates when someone opposes them and they want to squash them by any means. Only a m-r-n cant see this. And when those countries have shtton of resources on top of that theyre extra screwed because then its free real esate for USA.
@@vermilion6966 Germany is actually much older than 200 years. Not in its current form, but in 962 the Kingdom of Germany formed the bulk of the Holy Roman Empire. And it dates back over 1000 years.
I just love how Russia in a span of couple weeks validated the existence of NATO and encouraged certain countries to increase their military budgets, excatly the opposite of what Putin wanted.
Germany has increased it's military budget to be 3 times it originally size.
He’s in the delusional power-hungry arc of being a dictator. He knows that if he doesn’t maintain an iron grip on the countty he’ll end up like gaddafi: sodomized with a bayonet when his powerbase collapses and the russian people no longer want him making them an international pariah
He basically justified decades of NATO existence AND the expansion of NATO all in a single move. Putin must be playing 20D chess because I can’t see how this isn’t a bad move otherwise for Russia
@@sorashadow9775 Germany: WHOMST HAST AWAKENED THE ANCIENT ONE
NATO only exists as an american sphere of influence, dont delude yourself into thinking it actually gives 2 shits about national sovereignty, every minor nation in nato exists only so the US can station nukes there.
>inb4 neo-lib copes.
I really admire Cody by standing unbiased and saying that no invasion is good, neither American nor Russian
That’s not “unbiased” that’s just having decent morals 😂
He has a anti war bias then. Sick of people think unbias = accurate or good
@@daraghokane4236 Are you really trying to both sides war?
@@daraghokane4236 Unbias is OBJECTIVELY more accurate and better from an information gathering/displaying perspective
@Emmanuel Goldstein we will turn you into fertilizer if you do not leave our country
Cody saying that: “You can’t start wars over a verbal agreement, made before most of your soldiers were even born.” Really hits home. I was born after the agreements, and now I’m of drafting age. You’re a very smart man Cody.
If China invades Taiwan and the US will be forced to send troops to the pacific, this comment will take a whole new dimension
@@shedar7387 If China invades Taiwan the US has no reason to be intervening on the other side of the world as they always do, however it is likely that they will, and with it there will be a nuclear catastrophe
Taiwan isn't in NATO let alone the fact that the USA doesn't recognise them as a country
@@spiko-ou3bp So, having a diplomatic consultant and official communications between the two executive branches isn't official recognition. The US simply does not recognize Taiwans claims upon the whole of China and Mongolia.
@@spiko-ou3bp didn't the US swear to protect Taiwan if it ever gets attacked, and didn't US jet fighters chase away Chinese ones in Taiwan airspace multiple times already
Verbal agreements sealed with a handshake are valid and binding in the eyes of God, sure, but that only applies to getting a share of your cousin's harvest in exchange for helping him raise his barn, not for National fucking Policy.
As I Polish I can say, we didn't just "wanted" to join NATO, we were begging so it could happen as fast as possible. Look at our history, we were always conquered by some foreign forces, and Russia was least favorable of all of them.
but u do realise u have belarus lithuania and ukraine between you and russia, right?
@@benismann that didn’t stop Russia from attacking all four of them
Why don't Poland try to become independent?
@@George83_Thomas when
@@benismann Poland and Russia have a border, Belarus is also an ally to Russia so that is functionally no different, Ukraine can't be trusted to stay on the map while the Lithuanian border is tiny
Greetings from a Crimean (now I live in Dnipro, Ukraine). Having my experience of communicating with the Russians, seeing their propaganda and attitude towards other nations, I believe that the "expansion" of NATO is just an excuse for them. Why? Because they did not perceive the collapse of the USSR as real, in their minds it was only a regrouping, saying "We are all supposedly independent countries, but you know who is the boss here and who to obey." Even before 2014, the Russian news did not write about Zhytomyr, for example, as a city from another country. They also talked about films, songs, any events and achievements of the countries of the former Soviet Union as their own. For example, the game Stalker, developed by Ukrainians, was in the "domestic development" category. Also, in Crimea, from the very beginning, they tried to bring as many people from Russia as possible to the local authorities. Various Ukrainian enterprises were massively bought by Russians through fronts to have more influence. "Gas wars", food wars, etc. These were their actions of coercion, not protection of interests. Therefore... They were not afraid of NATO, they have nuclear weapons and they know that no one would attack them. They only wanted to preserve the Soviet Union in a new format. And, of course, it scared the neighboring countries, which were trying to somehow build independent states. In Ukraine, until 2014, there was no desire to join NATO at all, because "why?". All that Russian propaganda was perceived as something laughable. But after the Russian invasion 10 years ago, joining NATO was like our dream, we built an army almost from scratch and asked for protection. Now many people say that we need to negotiate with Russia, but the agreements don't really mean much to them. They point out to their opponents the violation of some non-existent agreements, even though they themselves have been doing it since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The Khasavyurt Agreements, the Budapest Memorandum, and even the Russian constitution itself, which requires a national referendum to revise state borders.
Thank you for your perspective. Sorry war is happening to you.
I'm curious about something you stated: "In Ukraine, until 2014, there was no desire to join NATO at all, because "why?". I'm further curious about your age because I recall when Yushchenko was poisoned in 2004. That kicked off the Orange Revolution so many in Ukraine were already quite concerned. After Yanukovych became President in 2010 he: 1. Jailed Yulia Tymoshenko, his presidential-candidate rival in 2011; 2. He re-signed the Sevastopol lease in 2010 (democracies don't act that fast, EVER!); 3. he ended mandatory conscription in Oct 2013; 6-months before the seizure of Crimea.
Yanukovych was also caught in election fraud in 2004, same year that Yuschenko was poisoned. So there were many, many warning signs of things to come far earlier than 2014.
@@truthseekerodinson5094
There were indeed warning signs. Putin openly backed Yanukovich's campaign in 2003, he was even campaigning for him on TV. And God only knows how much money Russia spent on pro-Russian politicians during that period. So it was quite obvious that Ukraine had only limited sovereignty from Russia. However, around half the population (especially those in eastern and southeastern Ukraine) were actually fine with that. Russia wasn't seen as an enemy, but rather as an intrusive colleague or awkward uncle. Hardly anyone imagined back then that Russia would take military action against Ukraine, so polls only showed low support for the idea of joining NATO. However, the percentage of people in favour of joining skyrocketed after the events of 2014 because for the first time it became evident that the threat is physical and possibly existential.
@@alik1989Thanks for the info. Over here in Canada, it was initially a bit difficult to tell what was going on. It eventually became clear but there were competing stories of Ukrainian nationalism (run by BBC for example) for over a decade. Putin did a pretty good "information operation" on the west creating the initial impression and diluting facts with other conflicting stories to create uncertainty. Putin's still convinced the US MAGA supporters but not too many others. Slava Ukraini!
Можешь поплакать об этом, промытый. Большинство (включая меня) крымчан хотят быть с Россией, нас тут не морят голодом и воду с газом не перерезают, много чего построили и улучшели. Я годен к службе, но пойду в том случае, если вы собаки начнёте "возвращать" нас, я готов дать вам всем по морде и отстоять свое мнение.
@@alik1989 Slava ukraini
I wish the Ukrainian people well and hope they have a swift and secure entrance into the EU and NATO.
Basically that scene from Star Wars:
"You turned her against me!"
"You have done that yourself."
"You have done that yourself"
@@cuddlestsq2730 Change made for precision.
You underestimate my power,
I can win this war in 3 days...
Don't try it !
@@dave_sic1365 AAAAAAHHHH... I HATE YOU!!
"you were mean to be good not turn to evil"(ik the original is different but changed to fist the context)
Should have talked about the Budapest memorandum, where america, britain, france, china, AND RUSSIA, all agreed to recognise and respect ukraines borders and independence, which was in writing
Exactly. Part of the reason for doing so is that the ukrainians had nuclear armaments which they were reluctant to give up. Moscow would be a smoking crater right now if they hadn't.
Exactly these these all seems so stupid me because all the big-shot countries signed some many referendums regarding the independence of Ukraine now none of them are living up to it
Nukes are whot keeping the continent to turn into a bloodbath
@@alexrussianlearnermirzabdu4968 Considering the the only one who signed it and is in violation of it is Russia, where as the others are pro iding material support to the government of Ukraine so they can defend themselves, I'd say everyone else is "living up to it".
Wait a second. France and China had no part in the budapester memorandum.
Hungarian here: we were Russian allies at gunpoint. After the country was liberated from the Nazis in 1945 a fragile, budding republic was instituted that lasted all the way until 1949. Then with massive Soviet help the Hungarian communists stated a coup d’état and completely took over the country, instituting a total dictatorship. In 1956 Hungarians rebelled against that dictatorship, and the revolutionary government wanted to try some sort of third way Socialism in a more democratic contest. Then Soviet tanks came rolling down our streets. Compared to that joining NATO in 1997 was debated publicly for years and was voted on by the people.
Made me think about my dads boss. When he was y oung he fought in the hungarian revoltution then came to america i believe after that.
@@mohammadsmith8064 yeah, a lot of people fled west after our country fell twice in 30 years. Around 30-40k people fled to the US or other countries through Rijeka.
how were you liberated from nazis if you were their allies? you did invade USSR, didn't you?
@@puzzled012 the same way the german people were liberated from the nazi party. the nazi party was the fascist form of government which wielded power over the populace. one can be liberated from one's own government, as that old saying goes, one mans rebel is another's freedom fighter
@@johngarofalo3155 German "Allies" until they think twice and are reminded of their "strong friendship and ties"... by the barrel at the back of their head.
Putin actually managed to unite the whole Europe against him.
Impressive.
Except for the fact that the whole europe except for bri'ish bruvs wont help ukraine in the war)))
@@КотВасилий-м7н Nope. theyll just send some "help", and Ukraine will probably lose.
But the economical sanctions will hurt russians much more then the war ever could.
@@definitelynotthequestion5359 dont u think Europe will fail its economy too? Diesel is hard to get nowadays. About sanctions: you are telling it like russia has no economical partners besides west?
@@КотВасилий-м7н The only "Partner" is China. Thats it. All European countries (even Finland and Sweden) are united against Putin. You mean gas? They will buy it. But all commercial chains are gone. It will hurt average russian a lot. Just look at rubble conversion rate.
@@definitelynotthequestion5359 india? North Korea? Kazakhstan?
Someone from Poland here. We treat our "alliance" with USSR as occupation. We never wanted to be part of communism block, we were sentenced to it in Yalta. We didn't feel like Russian's friends then, but as Russian's subordinates. Also, in our minds Poland always has been part of the western civilization (we use Latin alphabet, took Christianity from Rome, etc.). So it's natural that after we freed ourselves in 1989/1990, we didn't want to be part of Russian influence zone but we wanted to join Western Europe, hence NATO and EU.
And I think every nation should respect sovereignty of other nations and let them do what they want in their country (as long as even more important declarations, such as human rights, are respected).
This! Joining Warsaw Pact was decision of pro-russian puppet goverments not the real Poles, Hungarians, Czecks, Romanians etc. We've never been russian allies yet they still act so possesive towards whole Eastern Europe. We're not their therithory so no matter how 'betrayed' they feel NATO did nothing wrong by letting us join WILLINGLY.
Christianity is historically a Middle-Eastern religion with its origin being in Judaism, it did not originate from the west. To be honest most Western cultures are stolen from the East, even things such as Maths 🤦♂️🤷♂️
@@lonewolf8997 and?
@@trevor8726 he said it came from Western Civilisation. So why say "and?" If you bothered to read, it was self-explanatory 🤷♂️
@@lonewolf8997 By the way, it should be "she" 😅 Your comment is not relevant to my. What is important in my comment is that some countries were baptized from Rome, and some from Byzantium and it resulted in a slightly different culture and definitely a different "type" of religion: Catholic (and later the reformation happened) and Orthodox. It's a basic history btw.
Putin never asked himself why post soviet countries were moving away from them. It simply because the Putin style of government leads to nowhere. South Korea has an economy that equal to that of the size of Russia. Russia is still no where near the quality of life found in Germany or Japan. Russia is a country with immense potential but it is not going anywhere under Putin.
I know what the Chinese would say. "It was the CIA". They blame Tibet on the CIA. Even when Chernobyl HBO aired, the Russian government responded with saying they'd make their own miniseries version of Chernobyl blaming the CIA for it. Russia’s culture ministry was helping to fund the NTV show with a $460,000 grant.
@@Edax_Royeaux what kind of live action show can they make with $46k?
That's barely even union guaranteed pay.
Russia is a country that will never be allowed to go anywhere, regardless of who leads them. The only way Russia can ever move forward is with collaboration with the West. But the West have never had any interest in working with Russia. Russia is viewed as a necessary enemy and never ending threat, as it gives the West the perfect excuse to keep on expanding their military forces. Having Russia as an ally, removes that excuse.
@@ArcturusOTE There's a difference between a government grant and a show budget. Also your off by a factor of 10.
You forgot Russia, while giants only has few hundred million of population, like a small country.
It is worth mentioning that "allies" like Poland for example were forced to be "friendly" with Soviet Union, thats biggest reason they wanted to split from them in the first place.
That practice should continue. Poles have been free for far too long. This mistake should be corrected.
@@salamander4668Russia has been free for far too long it's time for the next Gengis Khan to bring back the Mongul empire
@@upg5702 mo mongols haven't completely conquered russia doe. Unlike poland, which was partitioned multiple times.
@@salamander4668 They conquered and burned down every single Rus city. The Rus had to kiss the Monguls ring and only won their freedom because Timur kicked the golden hordes ass
@@salamander4668 They did and burned every Russian city to the ground. Russia has been coping hard ever since than
I think Putin expected the slow, democratic processes in the West to be divided over the topic of Ukraine, especially how demoralized everyone became after Afghanistan.
Every authoritarian regime has underestimated democratic ones.
Putin has been talking about not allowing and retaliating since 2003 afair,
It's an essential part of Russian's defense and securing survival, not allowing ICBMs in few minutes of Moscow.. It's not even that hard to imagine, a single person can go to the toilet and voila a missile coming your way so can't really blame them for that one tbh
@@VArsovski10 An ICBM can be sent from the USA, in the fields of Arkansas, in minutes to the Kremlin, don't need to be nearby for a long time now.
@@VArsovski10 So you are telling me that the 100km less from Moscow to a NATO country will make a big difference? Especially since NATO has not based any SRBMs there during the last 8 years, doesn't plan to do at any point and actually doesn't even have an active SRBM carrier system.
All the while Russia has actually based nuclear (capable) 9K720 SRBMs in Kaliningrad Oblast, not 500km away from Berlin, Warsaw, Riga and Kopenhagen.
@@VArsovski10 Ukraine gave up its nukes in the 90's as part of the Budapest Memorandum--in which *_Russia_* would help guarantee their safety in return for doing so. Also, given that its takes 20min or less for a SLBM (Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile) to reach Moscow anyway, your whole point is moot, disingenuous...and just plain stupid.
It's also amazing how Russia invaded one country in fear it might join NATO, but that only caused other neutral nations to reconsider their stance. I live in Austria and they have been neutral since their independence in the 50s. Since the invasion of Russia there have been multiple politicians speaking about how dropping the neutrality and joining NATO might be a better choice than to possibly stand alone.
@@johngarofalo3155 oh yes, there would be a lot that would have to change, but as far as I can remember Austrians seemed very certain if their neutrality and seeing them even just question that is quite significant.
Historically a stance of neutrality was often enough to ensure you won’t be bothered. Like Switzerland and Sweden in the events that led them to neutrality. So long as they aren’t in the way they get left alone because why bother when there are actual enemies around? But when you get someone stupid like Putin who instigates wars of aggression with zero justification then you start turning neutral states into scared ones. And they always flip to the side not wanting to topple their nation.
their flag may be different but their ideals are all the same
@@taivnaataivankhuu8360 well no. They are very different politically but they are still a hostile nation. Maybe even more so then when they were communists.
Is it really worth tho , considering that NATO is a shield for you guys and Switzerland?
You bring up a lot of good points, the one I would add is the shale oil deposits in Ukraine, if they were to be invested in it would allow Europe to become completely energy independent of Russia. And that would be crippling both to the Russian economy and would take away one of Putin's best ways to influence Europe.
This is a key point. Russia did not invade Crimea until after Ukraine signed oil and gas development deals. Ukraine could (if developed) completely replace Russia as a source of oil and gas for Western Europe. This is more about Russian influence in Europe through energy policy than about NATO.
True. But if a nation chooses to become energy independent, say for example, USA finally getting off fossil fuels and thus no longer needing to appease Saudi Arabia for oil, shouldn't that nation's choosing be their own?
Russia could invest in other sectors, other programs that would make it viable in the world economy. Instead their constant oil first to Europe and now invade Ukraine would be its own undoing, making the USA and the West seek to be energy independent sooner than later.
We have seen nations fail economically when they fail to diversify their economy. Nations and people need to learn to diversify. Like a resume, what can you bring to the table.
Before Crimea, Ukraine was overwhelmingly friendly towards Russia culturally, even if they wanted to be closer to the EU economically.
If Russia was friendly and worked on its soft power, Russian companies would be the ones asked by Ukraine to build their wells and pipelines because of their experience, proximity, and less of a language barrier. Russia won't be making 100% of those money, but they'll still be making a lot . That would free up Russia's own domestic production to be sold to China, the rest of Asia, and the US.
If it weren't for Putin, Russia would have gain more influence over Europe in a few more years and maybe even a powerful member of the EU in a decade. With a more integrated economy with Europe, Russia would feel less of an impact as the world de-fossilize themselves, because by then, they would have diversified their economy.
@@olivergrayhoundII The funny thing is the us is energy-dependent we are a net exporter of oil the thing is , we prefer selling it elsewhere as companies make more money off of it this way. Saudi oil also tends to be cheaper due to lack of workers rights .
@@olivergrayhoundII They absolutely should be allowed to change their energy needs and desires. I'm bringing this up because most of the coverage of why the war is happing like to paint this as an entirely ideological war about Putin trying to return Russia to a golden age ignoring the material reasons. It's also why the Oligarchs won't make a move of Putin over this. they need the war just as badly.
Putin: "NATO has no reason to exist, let alone expand!"
Also Putin: *gives NATO a reason to exist, let alone expand*
What some people in Russia will never understand is that even with all the problems that NATO and, above all, the USA have, all the states joined the alliance voluntarily because they are allowed to govern their countries more freely and self-deterministically. Countries like Poland have experienced a gigantic economic boom since they have been allowed to operate freely. This is the real power of the West, not being a pawn of a super power but a smaller partner in an alliance.
Well maybe with the exeption of Montenegro that didn't even hold a referendum because the "president" (who is a dictator) knew that most people would vote against joining
Lol europe is literally a pawn of the USA. It's an alliance of convienece. US military assures protection from Russia which is fair considering their recent agressions
@@arthurzambezi6736 But why drag a country into a pact it doesn't want to be in?
Yeah Europe is free to buy any jet fighter as long as it is an American F35 #sarcasm
@@_imtellingmum_ polls taken in Montenegro at the time actually showed that the population was split almost 50-50 on the issue, but I agree that getting the country into it without a referendum was a bad idea. That’s still not the US’s fault, however, it’s Djukanović’s.
For all of NATO’s faults, it didn’t take US tanks rumbling through Warsaw and Berlin to get them to join. The Warsaw Pact on the other hand…
Not quite Germany was split into two that was part of the treaty that ended WW2 the eastern half was granted to the Soviets as a puppet state.
As for Poland it was already occupied by the Soviets and was actively at war against the Soviet Union before WW2 started.
So when WW2 ended the Soviets just made it into a puppet state. Same story for Bulgaria and Romania.
As for Hungary and Czechoslovakia that is a more complicated story.
@@darth3911 Hold on, you're claiming the Poles were at active war with the Soviets immediately prior and during the invasion of the Nazis from the west? Are ya off your rocker?
The Polish gov't-in-exile was forced to make up with the Soviets while the outlook was bleak on all sides, due to the perceived need to bring in the Soviets to organizing with the Allied Powers in the defeat of Germany in Europe.
@@jackr2287 Poland got invaded from both sides in 1939, thanks to Hitler and Stalin's nonagression pact. ...Which Hitler promptly broke in 1941, after a German invasion of SE England was no longer a realistic possibility.
is that why germany is still occupied? japan too
@@AaronOfMpls Exactly what I'm referring to, and which the loony first poster alleges... what? Wasn't the case?
"It's good to try and see from all perspectives, yet not all perspectives are equal - sometimes the perspective is simply that another nation was a mistake to exist."
What a nice quote.
Yup..spot on.. White people stole the whole American continent.
The only Americans existing today is mostly assimilated natives.
perfectly said, my fuhrer!
hi hitler
@@Mitray what?💀
@@baronkwak4311 look at his pfp
I'm still convinced that Russia joining NATO would've been the "blursed good end" timeline I wish we ended up with. It was utterly unlikely and I suspect it would've made NATO absolutely pointless, but it also would've been hilarious. So...what if Russia had somehow ended up in NATO?
Probably would've just ended up with the US and Russia constantly squabbling over who has to flex at China this week.
Personally, if we manage to make it to the good end of this whole situation, I can see that still being a possibility. If Russia gets a regime change and, say, Navalny manages to secure power in the country, It's entirely likely that NATO and the EU reach out to the people of Russia and attempt to prevent something like this happening again.
Honestly, it might not change much. Beyond having the nukes to end the world, Russia struggles to remain relevant. I feel it would still be NATO vs. China - but with a spicy edge to it since Russia would have a land border with China. I don't know if that would make China more cautious or even more aggressive.
Pointless? Not at all, NATO is also like the old treaty after the French Revolution. It keeps ALL parties in check so no one can harm another without getting their asses kicked. A Second super power in NATO would have driven the U.S to expand its sciences and culture of innovation and exploration more to keep dominance as world culture influence.
But when the USSR fell and Bush started a revenge war we stopped being so much about science and research and became more about conservatives selling citizens rights. But it would have been great. Eventually India or China would have joined nato and even though having a second SP in it already would have promised world peace having either of the Asian SPers in it would made it impossible for any member of NATO to ever go rogue and betray the pact.
Here are my predictions if there is a regime change in Russia, and the leaders of NATO got drunk and accept Russia at some point in the future:
1, All of the conflicts regarding Russia vs West will be OVER. Ukraine? Done. Transnistria separatists in Moldova? Done. Georgia? Done. Russophobia in the Baltics and Central Europe? Done. Russia using oil and gas as a weapon against the West? Done. Russia supporting the Syrian, Belarusian and Venezuelan regimes? Done. In short: no more Russia vs West.
2, NATO will without doubt be the most powerful force ever existed on this planet: with tens of thousands of nuclear warheads, an army of millions, and military technology from both Russia and the West. They will be unstoppable. Ukraine and Georgia will likely to join NATO as well. Neutral Nordic countries such as Finland or Sweden can also safely join NATO without being threatened by Russia.
3, Russia can truly start to invest in social democracy, economy development and living standard increase, as their government does not need to throw tons of money into defense. Russian people will start to see actual development of their country now. Of course, some people who are nostalgic to the USSR, Putin, or the Russia's international influence will feel displeased, and anti-NATO narrative will likely to be relatively popular amongst nationalists and senior citizens.
4, All of Russia's ally will panic. CSTO (a retarded version of the Warsaw pact) will likely be dispacted. All of its members will find the path in front of them uncertain. Belarusian government will descend to chaos - as their overlord has now betrayed them and they will be eaten by NATO easily. Transnistria, Donetsk and Luhansk separatist activities will be obliterated. Serbia will find itself in an awkward position. Cuba, Venezuela and Syria will suffocate. China will be the one that is the most worried, as they are literally surrounded on all fronts by Western allies. There will be a new cold war between NATO and China. China will be the new boogeyman of the Western world.
For the record. The story goes, Stalin instigated more than 50 assassinations on Tito. So it follows, ex-YU states were never friends with USSR. Serbia has a closer cultural connection. And Russia supported it in the 90’ Balkans conflict. So they tend to have a biased opinion on the subject. Otherwise, no.
Yugoslavia founded unaligned bloc in the 50’. Just so they could get Stalin off their back.
“Stop sending people to kill me. We've already captured five of them, one of them with a bomb and another with a rifle… If you don't stop sending killers, I'll send one to Moscow, and I won't have to send another.”
Yeah screw Stalin, but Russia is right here, America needs to screw off
Honestly I know two Serbians online. They hate the US and up until recently were pretty pro-Russia. Up until recently. Even they are fucking pissed off.
@@jakobfromthefence the dudes with neonazis "morally pure"?
what's next, Russia with it's chechen Jihadi's are "morally pure"?
@@Ravi9A Which ones are the Nazis, exactly? The country that's been wanting to join NATO for years and led by a descendant of Holocaust victims or the country ruled by a ruthless, militant strongman who wants to reannex Eastern Europe out of a misplaced sense of a "return to the glory days"? You tone-deaf wastes of space are the same people accusing Israel of committing genocide or saying conservatives in the West have about as bad as those living under Hitler's Nuremberg Laws.
Rússia has no say on what other countries can or cannot do.
Russia be like: "People want to join NATO, because they are afraid of our attack, so we will attack to show them they are wrong"
Like, attack from a collapsed country, that HAD ENCOURAGED these countries go out and be sovereign since perestroyka and even before the collapse?
Can you also explain the "attack" for all Russia did was answering the call from republics being at war for 8 years with Ukraine. Like, maybe the Ukraine would set peace like Minsk agreements implemented and not have any war?
And these people talk about russian propaganda.
this, lmfao
@@sashagrey2984 XDXDDXDXDXD "HAD ENCOURAGED these countries go out and be sovereign" - you clearly know shit about USSR relations with countires like: Estonia, Lativa, Lithuania, Ukraine, Poland, Czechs, Hungary etc. Those countries was independent only on paper. In reality most of "important" decisions was made by Moscow. And they forced those coutries to sell their produced goods to USSR on banditry level price.
@@danieldebowski8148 finally... in ukraine everyone knew that Yanukovic was russian lapdog... that's why maidan happened... anyway, we ukranians have been trying to get independence for over 500 years... for sure we won't become a russian lapdog again...
russia in a nutshell
I love all this whataboutism by the russian trolls here. They have no legitimate argument for this debate, so they just point to something bad about NATO that is completely unrelated.
We don't need legitimate arguments when we have supersonic missiles.
Btw before you start about the holy american states, they also don't need arguments, because they have military bases.
its a valid argument, you just dont understand it. Why would russia respect international law while US doesn’t and kills millions of civilians. Now that is a question NATO bots cant answer
It’s not here only. In any Russian website (for example, we have a reddit-like resource) will be the same. Someone posts something criticising government, it will gain comments and likes and in the next hour hundreds of bots will come and write “but what about donbass ryyaaaaaaa”.
Lets try it again since my comment was deleted. Its not whataboutism when its directly related. Why would Russia respect international law when NATO doesnt, and kills millions of civilians in the process. Answer that NATO bots.
Gremlin trolls everywhere "Naaaatoooo expaaaaansiooooon"
Your theory about Russia thinking they would still keep their special privileges makes a lot of sense. For centuries, that’s how Europe worked. A great example if the Franco-Prussian war. Yeah, France got their ass kicked and lost some territory, but they were still a great power. Their opinion still mattered and they were still included in stuff. The Russian Government was probably imagining something like a modern day Concert of Europe, where all of the big powers make sure nothing too crazy happens, and they’re all allowed to do their own little sides things because they are great powers. Russia didn’t expect to suddenly be just another country in Europe, and its leaders were very unhappy with that kind of Europe
Edit: corrected it’s to its
Ottoman Empire vibes.
That's pretty much the source of every major conflict between Russia and other nations since the fall of the USSR; Russia is still in denial that the collapse of the USSR was a defeat. Being that it's literally led by a "former" member of the KGB it's hardly surprising, but at some point they have to admit they lost the cold war, realize that means they will never be as powerful and influential as they were back then, and fix their own nation before they think they have any right to influence other nations.
@@troodon1096 fully agree except the never being so influential. If they went the route China is taking now they may have got a lot of their influence back, but they went "the old way" brute force and treats with bombs, and got a pikachu face when whole eastern europe went running towards NATO.
A concert of Europe, spheres of influence - those are anachronisms, like if the UK suddenly started sending gunships around the world and declared empire 2.0 is being formed. The West has 2 sacrosanct ideas which are part of our philosophy called liberalism - those 2 things are representative democracy and the market economy. Any entrant into the west has fulfil this. The west is a fluid concept, countries like Poland, Bulgaria and Finland haven’t been historically part of the west but embraced this and are part of western institutions. If Russia had done the same, it could have joined the club.
Intresting i didn't see it that way tho russian opinion still matters because they still have a lot of allies or possible allies that have just condemned the invasion and they are a major nuclear power which is basicaly a free acces to be taken seriously, for example north korea is taken much more seriously than what it should as its a nuclear power which can reach US allies (ex: south korea) and is very close to china and can cause a cuba crisis situation.
The funny thing is Russia wasn't even the last country to leave the USSR, it was Kazakhstan. Russia just took over the seat in the UN anyway.
because in the 90s an agreement was concluded, according to which debt and other obligations were transferred completely to the Russian Federation from all other 14 republics.
Leave? Russia WAS ussr. How can they leave themselves? Fckng lol. Russia occupied and annexed many countries becoming ussr. In the 90s those countries broke away. They fckng hate russians
@@sumarbrander3354 It absolutely does mean that. Russia was ssrs, moscow was soviet centre of command. Stfu and know your fckng history.
@@sumarbrander3354 changing your name doesnt fckng mean you 'left' yourself. Lol.
@@Woodsaras most educated American
You would think that anybody would get it in writing of NATO saying it will not move east, that is really something you wouldn't leave to a verbal agreement
And who is Russia to tell Eastern European independent countries what they can or can not do for their own safety?
@@Blanka1100 Russia is nobody, that's why most of the soviet states joined NATO the first chance they got, Ukraine didn't and now look.
@@rossicourvosi218 Russia is a neighbor bully*
3:58
And now even more neutral nations like Finland and Sweden are considering NATO membership so, if Putin wanted to prevent NATO expansion, he failed utterly.
I think Putin wants a new cold war and he goes for it, as well as the US gov does, because it's win-win situation for the "great powers". Divide and rule!
@Sue C YOU're talking about a well-known democracy with a bunch of wars. And where is there no freedom of speech? And don't try to tell me that it's not. Zelensky himself is a dictator who blocks the media at will, writes a story that he likes.
@Sue C True, totalitarian China lives no worse than many Democrats. Yes, for that matter, it's not bad in Russia either
It now officially happening
I’m all for Finland and Sweden joining, but they can’t skip the waiting line, no?
Russia had 10 years to establish themself as a multicultural trading nation between the far east and the west. With the Trans-Siberian Railway they could have gained a lot of influence and money with trade.
😂
Far cheaper by sea why bother constructing on land
@@sotch2271 trains can be cheaper on the long run. They also less effected by the weather and conflicts. Cargotrains can just drop off there trailers and grab new one while a ship needs days to on and offload. Its just a question how much invenstment russia is willing to put into a near 100 year old road/rail system.
What year do you think it is? 1550? Trade by water is so overwhelmingly cheap today that It took a global halt on trade for some companies to just consider giving up those raggedy ass diesel gulping 1960s cargo ships becuae even they're able to cover the cost of purchase of an entire big-ass ship in a single cruise.
@@bionmccool the cost of transporting isnt always in fuel and crew. Its also a environmental cost.
I view train as equal in performance (after you build the rails) to ship and as the greener option (becouse countless ships just drop there trash/oldoil into the sea)
You know what’s funny, Putin was afraid Ukraine would join NATO, yet because of Ukraine’s ongoing rebellions, it was not likely to be approved for membership. Georgia has a better chance of gaining NATO membership and they’ve been waiting over 10 years. Most NATO members are not enthusiastic about adding more members, especially not the poor Eastern European countries who don’t have much in resources to contribute
Well... Ukraine wasn't even that keen on joining NATO prior to 2014. So Putin only pushed it further to the west.
@@БогданСафяник Exactly. Promised admission in 2008, and then it never happened. They were forced to wait. NATO lost interest in adding poorer members.
@@StockyDude You do know joining NATO is not just a vote right? Joining either NATO or the EU means you need to instate some serious changes to the core of the country, and some countries simply can't fill those demands right away. It's not about money or ethnicity or whatever, it's to make sure the applicant country can apply the same laws, logistical structures etc. Saying NATO "Lost interest" in these countries is just extremely wrong, especially because these "Poor eastern european countries" do have a lot to contribute. Ukraine for example, has some of the largest reserves of Oil and gas on the planet. Tldr, if a country can't meet demands and change then they won't be allowed in until they can, simple as that.
U know that Nato is the biggest training bade for Ukrainian soldier, and 2014 is clearly regarded by everyone in Europe as US coup ?
@@Shadowsuit The only people in Europe who regard it as a coup are the stupid anti-Western conspiracy theorists like you. The vast majority of Ukrainians do not see this war as Russia liberating Ukraine. Why do you think it has dragged on so long with so many Ukrainians volunteering to fight. Also, the current Ukrainian president Zelensky was elected in 2019, so even if you want to claim that the 2014 election was not legitimate, you cannot make the same claim about the election in 2019.
I also really hate the "NATO Expansionism" excuse: The idea that everything Russia is doing is only a reaction to an increasingly aggressive and expansionist NATO, and that the US is really to blame for everything Russia is doing. It's a bad excuse that just makes you sound smart, until you look deeper into it. As stated at the start of this video, there was never a written in stone agreement that NATO wouldn't expand past Germany, in fact the whole thing stems from a suggestion brought up at the meeting which was immediately shot down. And Russia being humiliated that they lost their "empire" is no excuse to placate them.
Furthermore, and far more importantly, Russia is a nuclear power! They do not need a land buffer between them and NATO! They have weapons that can literally blast their enemies into the stone age which can circle the globe! This isn't the 1800s where the first army to mobilize and reach the battlefield wins by default!
"NATO Expansionism" isn't even true. NATO isn't forcing nations like Poland or the Baltics to join them or face an invasion worse than the Nazis and Russians combined. In-fact, it was the entire fucking opposite.
Poland, and the Baltics joining NATO was because they begged to join. They begged to be away from Russian Influence and would do absolutely anything to stay away from Russia.
Russia needs to accept the fact things change. The days of the Soviet Union were in the past and nobody will blame them for looking back at it. Nobody will blame them for looking back at the days of the Russian Empire. Afterall, Italy looks back at the days of the Roman Empire and Britain looks back at the days of the British Empire.
Nobody will blame them for it, what people will blame them for is acting as if they're justified in restoring it. Accept the humiliation of losing it and move on. That's the only thing left for them. That, or being a Pariah State with nobody left to ally them. Not even China wants to associate with them anymore.
What a fucking joke of a "Great Power"
12 days ago NATO and the West was seemingly divided, Russia was a country that wasn't politically and economically dead, still maybe had a future and their expansionist, imperial project (that would exist with or without NATO) still had a chance of success. It's one of the turning points of history.
None of that has changed. The West is still extremely divided and it’s very unlikely that the US and Western Europe will remain on the same side for another decade. It’s also very unlikely that NATO is going to get involved in Ukraine or that the Ukrainians will somehow defeat the Russian army in the long run, even if it’s much more costly than Putin anticipated. Russia (and China) are still on an upwards geopolitical trajectory while the United States and Western Europe are on the decline. They have confidence in their national identities and raise their youth to love their nations; we in the West are ashamed of who we are and teach our youth to tear our basic institutions down. They are willing to use their vast resources to their advantage; we bash in our own kneecaps because we fear the wrath of climate change activists. They train their militaries for war with the United States; the United States puts its military through “diversity training” while being overly reliant on technology that can be easily hacked and co-opted by our enemies. Don’t get all jingoistic just because Russia has gotten a bloody nose.
@@anthonydavis5826 Lol no they have a purpose now Russia if fucked like super fucked, like one of the top losers in this conflict
@@anthonydavis5826 Hahahaha! So many bad cuckservative "fears" in this post that it's pathetic! But not surprising at all coming from someone subbed to PragerU, BennyBoy Shapiro, Sargon, and Rave Dubin! 🤣🤣
Dude, seriously, unsub from all these Koch brother funded Reich-wing dipshits now before the brainrot is irreversible...
@@anthonydavis5826 Damn, what koolaid are you drinking making you that blind?
@@anthonydavis5826 PragerU is funded by fracking billionaires with a vested interest in spreading misinformation.
Hi. I'm Cuban and just wanted to say thank you for not supporting the embargo/blockade on my country. Many people outside of Cuba do not understand how harmful it is to the ones living inside the island (except the Cuban government, they don't give a shit and are even happy with having a justification to their ineptitude).
yall have youtube in cuba?
@@yogis2224 Yeah. In fact, thanks to the embargo, we have it without ads.
@@dimka9448 small Silver Lining there I guess.
Just a side note. The embargo is against the Cuban gov't, i.e. if a private Cuban company did want to trade it could do. The problem is that Cuban gov't doesn't want private companies to grow there. Plus, as you said, they use it as an excuse for their disastrous administration, which is against free market, so an embargo shouldn't affect them that much (in their Communist theory, of course).
@@LautaroTessi If a private company wants to trade with Cuba it can, under the penalty of it's ships and planes not setting foot in the USA for 5 years. So,... yeah, basically it can't.
"Putin's Russia really has been their own worst enemy."
Well said!
Can't believe all these libs are against our humane special military operation 😏👍
@@TurtleChad1 ..Is this sarcasm?
The guy is a billionaire. He and his friends have robbed the country blind over 20 years.
@RB Gerald the emojis shows that his comment is 100% sarcastic
@@BuckingBadger .. Right thanks
Excellent video Cody. The sad truth is; if the eastern Europian countries would not have to be afraid of a big bad neighbour, then there would not be a wish to join it or even exist in the first place. Just look at Finland. For decades they sat on the top border of Russia during the entire cold war as a free independant democratic country. Now however their wish to join NATO is stronger than it ever was before
@@maddogbasil Sad to see you have clearly bit the Putin propaganda.
-If you would be so kind and look at the history of both Warsaw Pact/Russia and NATO and honestly tell me which one has brought more peace and stability. We are not talking about USA but NATO, because that's the main issue here. Compare the amount of invasions both has started.
-If NATO expands it's because free and democratic countries chose freely and democratically to join it. Threat of force from Russia is exactly the reason why countries want to join. Finland was independent and neutral, yet Stalin chose to attack because they drew lines on the map with his nazi-counterpart. Because of need for more power.
-Having 'ethnic russians' outside your borders does not allow you to invade free and democratic countries. It does not. No. Just no.
And WTF are you talking about? Holding hostages ABSOLUTELY requires a strong response. Having hostages is morally and legally bad no matter who does, country or a person! No matter if one or thousand.
You are right, Russia is weak and now they are trying to bully their free and democratic neighbours into giving up for a dictatorship. Because that's what Russia is nowdays, a dictatorship and Putin is the dictator. You are defending a dictator that kills civilians for his own sick pleasure and power hunger. Shame on you.
@@SecondVelcory Exactly. It was an attempt to assimilate Ukrainian culture into Russia's or at least displace it, which if it isn't a war crime, it should be.
In a perfect world, they would be offered the choice to live peacefully in a democratic Ukraine or move back to mother Russia.
I can't imagine why so many countries that had their culture and right to self govern suppressed by the USSR (Russia) would want to join a community of powerful nations who are obligated to defend them from future attacks from a similar nation
they were not depressed. Lol, at least you have studied political ideas and the structure of the state a little. The USSR preserved and supported different cultures, but this was a mistake. In Russia, almost 200 peoples all live somehow
Mike you should not speak about things you clearly do not know anything about.
@@viktorr7115 All right then, answer his question. Why does everybody who used to be part of the Soviet Empire want nothing to do with Russia any more?
Yeah america is not a imperialist regime that puts puppets in power to benefit them and has a intelligence agency that ensures they controll all the rights of the people and suck resources out of countries
@@odysseusrex5908 because Russia's gdp is lesser than California's and everyone likes some green
I think the final half minute is the most important point here. Whatever else is going on here, and whatever people think is justified/unjustified, the invasion of Ukraine has put more energy into NATO than any event I can remember in the past two decades.
The European Union, too. The EU went from fractured and almost entirely incapable of forming coherent foreign and military policy to rallying around a common purpose and finally figuring out how to actually make this whole union thing work beyond largely devolved monetary policy.
It takes a “threat” to unify many.
Even if Russia defeats Ukraine, suppresses the people, and installs a puppet government, they've just started an arms race with NATO that they can't afford even at the best of times, a
Hardened foreign policy, and increased suspicion. Putin is acheiving the exact opposite of what he wants.
@@TheOneWhoMightBe aside from being economically ruined, because now the EU will speed up green energy production and get their gas, oil and other natural resources somewhere else than Russia, which up untill now made up about a quarter of the entire GDP of Russia.
@@Lucifer_26 Not only green energy, but also nuclear energy is back on the table (outside of France).
Something that wasnt even a possibility 3 months ago, considering the trend towards green-only energy and removal of current powerplants, such as nuclear, coal and so on.
As a citizen of a non-nato European country, I can say that Russia has been a thorn in the side of Europe for quite some time. Nato is a blessing for many European countries. If the baltics didn't join, they would have been either putinfied with two ugly separatist states such as in Ukraine or Georgia or occupied all together. The biggest threat Putin fears is any threat to his power. Such as russians finding out democracy is a great alternative than an oligarchic autocracy. Putin and his ministers are clearly a threat to humanity. They must be tried in the Hague.
NATO is definitely not perfect, but I'd much rather live in a world with it than a world without it.
Your european flag picture is dumb. EU is not the dreamland which is portrait by media and co. There is a reason why Great Britain left the EU, because intern EU is corrupt, demands payment "according to balance countries out", agreed to take in illegal refugees, etc. They let Greece illegally in and all european countries had to pump in trillions of money into Greece because it went bankrupt. Its a deep debt hole. Greetings from Germany.
Democracy is sh¡t.
Monarchy is the best
@@nerostile333 most “leave” voters regret their decision to leave though
But it does give russia proper cause
When your next door neighbour is a crazy narco, 2% security fee is really not that much
The most important argument in this discussion is: no one is forced to join NATO, that is sovereign decision of nations that did that (mostly in fear of the nature of Russia which always want to treat neighbors as pawns) - that's it. It's Russia that wanted to force these nations to stay under that influence - that's not fair. Trust me - anyone who knows what "Ruski mir" is will run to NATO.
Really!? One of Theodore Roosevelt quotes about negotiation process is:" Speak softly and carry a big stick (behind your back);, you will go far.". That is the policy, I guess.
How does this quote relates to the sovereignity of countries in your brain?
Lmao, dude really believe in the freedom of choice on this geopolitics world.
You dont have a choice, simply NATO and Russia, you dont want to be Russia's pawn, therefore you become American and European pawn.
Simple.
@@SerpentCommando If the definition of being USA’s “pawn” is having a larger economy with a functioning democracy and a longer average lifespan that doesn’t literally have martial law.
Then sign me the fuck up for membership, sorry I mean “enslavement” for the West.
@@chadzahirshah2588 Seriously bro? Who already rich still rich, who are poor just get a bit better (Eastern Europe), and this is due to EU, not NATO.
@@SerpentCommando And who stays with Russia is worse off like Belarus and “Transnistria”
“Why are these nations I was holding at gun point suddenly not being my friend anymore now I don’t have a gun?”
-Russia
"Oh wait, I found it."
-Putin
@@CoralCopperHead "Oops, it broke. Just like my logistics."
-Putin
Russia is in the biggest denial ever xD they can blame everyone in this world only to not admit that the problem is in themselves :"D
@@emilia-4911 oh damn sounds a lot like twitter lol
@@dusk2308 maybe, I dont have an account on twitter so dunno 😅
I’ll say this now. How could NATO betray Russia? We’re not even on the same side.
The thing about vatnik brainrot is that they demand and expect obedience towards Russia from anyone. To the point that they sometimes explicitly consider invaded countries as its property. And when property rebels, it is a treason then
It is high time everybody understood Eastern Euroeans are not Russia's slaves or property. We owe Russia nothing. Who the hell gave Russia any right to even think it is entitled to decide about other country's pact choices?
Russia really oppressed those countries for decades than does a shocked pikachu face when they shift towards the other side
The Katya Massacre comes to mind.
It’s like beating your dog, letting it off the leash, and being surprised when it sprints away from you
Ukraine became pro-NATO after the 2014 coup that was backed by the west. Before, they were friendly with Russia
Good ol'communism.
@@Notwithstanding0 Aka the maidan that literally a majority of the ukranians wanted and welcomed
As a Pole, our people chose EU and NATO. We have been treated like trash by Russia and its Soviet incarnation. Russia occupied our country, stationed troops ready to suppress our desire for independence during 40 years under Soviet colonial control. That’s why we want nothing to do with Russia. We wish Russia would become a good neighbour after the Cold War, but instead it chose revisionist imperialism.
And they have the gall to moan when their neighbours want to protect themselves
"How dare they not be our bitches anymoree"
Back in 2013, people of Ukraine were for EU… but not NATO. They didn’t seen Ukraine in NATO like “to not scary russia”. How dumbass we were back then…
Not to mention Stalin secretly planning with the Nazis to invade Poland in 1939.
Never forget that Russia started world war 2
Russia chose the same side as the Nazis.
It was only after they started losing that they begged the West for help and changed sides.
Oh and then they murdered my Polish family and my Ukrainian family.
The only reason there's any family left is gran and grandad got out before the war started.
@@MostlyPennyCat dude, I'm sorry. That's just fucked up. I don't know what that's like since I live far away from Russia but I'm sorry your family had to go through
Russia is literally like a toddler who screams when someone else gets a toy they wanted
toddlers get everything they want
@@soviet_union1936if it parent don't know how to parenting
And we will get our toy 🤗
All of them.
@@hulking_presencegood luck. Try not to die all at once though
A thing this video doesn't mention (that it really should) is Russian military adventurism in the 90s, in places like Transnistria, Georgia, and to a lesser extent Central Asia; I consider it important as a way to contextualize NATO expansion.
Blimey. That really puts into the shade the invasions and bombings of Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia and Yugoslavia.
The western invasions caused hardly any deaths and caused no terrorists groups or insecurity compared to that.
@@robertely686 4:01
@@robertely686 people keep acting like Yugoslavia in its later years was a paradise and not just Serbian officials trying to keep together people who didn’t want to be together any more
Yup, 1992 invasion of Moldova is what cemented Romania's decision to join NATO.
It also doesn't mention how the CIA funnels money into NGOs that go into countries like Hungary, Poland, and Ukraine, and start pushing Western ideals. Which are really just American leftist ideals. So when a country bans the NGOs like Hungary did or like Poland has talked about doing because they don't want their youth being given transgender surgeries against their parents wishes, they immediately become pariahs to Western elites. Don't want to take millions of refugees that share none of your values? You're evil, Viktor Orban. You're a bad man and you must go.
That's what happened in Ukraine. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's well documented. It was Hillary Clinton's pet project.
As a Pole, the whole argument about "NATO expanding bad" is just riddiculous. Sure, NATO expanding = American imperialism expanding too. But no one forced us or other Eastern European nations to do this. We joined because we wanted to. We joined because we thought we would be safer there.
Ukrainians died, and are dying with European flag in their hand, only people in the world to do that. They wanted to join both EU and NATO. Why can't they decide?
People act as if Eastern Europe or just Ukraine and Belarus staying neutral would somehow prevent all of this. I fail to see that. Neutral Ukraine benefits only Russia. Yes, joining NATO means they would probably be a battlefield. It isn't ideal, but joining the alliance prevents the conflict in the first place. And Poland now defenitelly became a bullwark, and a possible future battlefield too. It's still better than not being in NATO.
EDIT: Also, damnit, Russia. They have such a great potential. They could have easily been twice or even trice as populated, developed. Democractic, developed Russia would just dominate the whole Eurasia economically. Instead, we got... this.
Anyway, what did Russia have to offer Ukraine before the war? It's economy is as big as Spain or Benelux. It's no wonder Ukrainians don't see their future with Russia but with EU and NATO instead. Where actual development can happen.
I've been reading a good AH story about a modern person being put into body of Alexander II of Russia. Story is currently in the 1930s and it's a whole different world. Russia is still authocractic, but with many democractic elements, more populated and wealthy. It's sad to read about it after seeing OTL Russia.
Here is the link for anyone interested (you may need an account on the forum to read it though, but it's still very much worth it):
www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/lonely-bear-and-cub-russian-si.504324/
I wholeheartly agree and besides.. maybe Russia should ask itself what it exactly fears from NATO so much in the first place? That it would end up like Iraq.. because Iraq was run by a mad dictator? Well.. Russia is a "democracy" so Russia has "nothing to fear right"?
When the Crimeans and Donetskians decided they didn't want into NATO, you all called it unjustifiable aggression and spent 8 years murdering them with artillery!
How the hell would Russia's population double or even triple in 30 years?
@@Jackques until recently Russia had still quite alot of support from Germany. Them being that dependent on Russland was an impressive vote of confidence.
@@Mortablunt oh damn. You're completely right. Your argument totally justifies the use of cluster bombs, vacumbombs, indiscriminate shelling of cities, ignoring ceasefire treaties to allow civilians to flee and to top it all off; the complete and total invasion of the country instead of only sending in the military to protect Donbass and Luhansk.
as a Russian historian who is now drawn into this pile of BS I salute your accuracy. This is really neat and as close to real deal as we could get for now. There's one piece of evidence where German Foreign Affair Minister kinda said that he promises that NATO wouldn't go East - that was said to russian foreign minister outside of official negotiations and it's still unclear what was the limits of power given to German FM
Problem with Putin is he thinks it's 1978 and he's the reincarnation of Stalin. He's in his own little (Rim)world and always has been. Did you ever hear the story of Yeltsin and the anthrax? It's so *him* .
@@rosiehawtrey No, he doesn´t think that... you are oversimplifying, maybe for "comedy" sake... we are all comedians in youtube, uh? The "meme" era.
@@Epimundo no that is basically a good summery of putins mindset
its of course more complex and cant be completely done justice in 3 lines of text but the idea putin wants to be stalin has a lot to it
Gorbachev stated that NATO promised not to locate offensive capabilities in East Germany, not that it promised not to expand.
So, using this logic, NATO wasn't prohibited from expansion, but was obligated not to put a nuclear arsenal and offensive forces (e.g. military bases) in Eastern Germany (and member countries in the East).
So, who to believe? Gorbachev, who was side in those talks? Or Putin, who claims that NATO should not take even Eastern Germany into its structures?
@@AChannelFrom2006 Augustus was sane.
Alternative History killing it by covering Russia-Ukraine. You're the History channel we all want to be!
Did you even watch the video?
Especially compared to the fascist of whatifalthist
@Morozko I've wondered why people write _returned back._ Is there any such thing as returning forward?
@@wile123456 Lmao no he’s no fascist.
Ron Paul would have never let this happen
the problem with russia is that they are trying to achieve with military force the same, as other big countries do with economic power influence. Russia has nothing to offer except of poverty
The sad thing is that they really were on the way to having that Big 3 status again through their pipeline softpower. Europe was already their #1 importer of those products, Germany especially. With Nordstream2, they would've cemented that influence. After watching China's game, it's mind boggling that someone as adept as Putin wouldn't see that he was already where he wanted to be. Paranoia was strong in this one.
#SlavaUkraini 🇺🇦💜✊
...and tyrany.
@@erinmcdonald7781 If anything, he permanently ruined his chances with this war. He pretty much lost the moment he started it.
You write like poverty=unlucky, negative, etc. We in Germany are still a rich country, but the people arent anymore. Our average salary is 2500€ with taxes, without taxes its 1700. Then you need to pay monthly rent(700€), food(100€), insurence(100€), etc. and then still have 800€ per month. Our gas, fuel(2,20€ now), electricity will sky rocket in 2022, if we dont reconcile in politics, then we germans will freeze in winter.
Russians are poor? They still dont freeze in winter, but we europeans do.
Now that is an stupid/ignorant comment.
I think it needs to be stressed that the former Warsaw Pact nations like Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltics, etc all begged, I mean begged NATO to become members of the security alliance. No one in the US, France, or Great Britain put a gun to these country's heads telling them that they had to join. What needs to be stressed here is that all of these Eastern European nations have experienced Russian/Soviet aggression and brutality during WWII and the Cold War that followed. Millions of women were systematically raped by Soviet soldiers as they pushed back the Nazis and it must said that many Poles also suffered enormous brutality by Stalin's forces. These memories have been burned into the psyche of the population over the decades and from that point of view you can understand why these nations begged to join. I feel so much of this historical fact gets ignored completely when people debate about the prudence of expanding NATO.
precisely. "NATO" isnt an entity deciding everything. every country in it is in there willingly, precisely because russia has done nothing except butcher their populations
"Millions of women (...) begged to join. I feel so much of this historical fact gets ignored "
Of course, neat fact. You might want to to systemically suck on a rusty spoon and ponder how THAT systemically makes you feel, and what to beg for.
Universal suffrage for one thing, that's a good tool for begging.
While begging, a position in a military might be a safe spot to be in, where things you get systemically done to you are something else entirely.
For some reason no country figured out the life hack of just DRAFTING the women, and leave the men to be systemically buggered by enemy soldiers while the Defense Force are still aligning their iron sights. With men in charge all they seem to manage is sit around and BEG for help, aka vote.
It's easy to criticise NATO expansion from the safety of London, Paris, New York or Melbourne, but the people in Warsaw, Bucharest, Talinn, Tblisi and Kyiv also want that security.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 nice misquotation
@@MrAlexkyra Let me ask you one thing.. Do you really control your Goverment?
I'd argue that the European Union and it's success in forming an ever-expanding ever-intensifying cooperation completely changed the landscape, too.
NATO is a military powerblock, but the EU brought prosperity and open borders to the continent. That is something the Russians just cannot compete with.
Destruction of the EU has actually been the main goal of Russia’s entire foreign policy for at least 10 years now. Putin is rightfully terrified of the new power that is slowly forming right on his doorstep. It seemed like he might succeed for a few years after the migrant crisis, but now he apparently achieved the exact opposite of what he wanted.
@@martinmendl1399 It's almost like focusing your entire country's efforts towards annoying others won't actually improve your country.
Funny thing, europe prospered a lot thanks to russia's supply in gaz and fuel. Which is a big part of the income of the oligarchs errrm... I mean the country.
Europe was building itself together with russia but this move from putin is just counter productive.
Ukrain was a possible contender to russia's monopoly in the gas and fuel market since large deposits were discovered at large of their borders. But since it was out the question with the annexation of crimea and the unrest in the country, i don't see what good will come out of this war for russia.
@@MichaelDavis-mk4me Erm nope. Take some history lessons and then come back.
@@clnetrooper I think Putin thought Ukraine would just get ran over like back in Crimea. He asked them to put down their arms, but once they didn't, it's like his entire plan just failed. It seems like a very stupid plan, but that's the only thing that makes sense.
From a Romanian: Russia's policy of subjugating other peoples to their interests of geographic, or at least culturual-influential imperialism has been the reason why basically nobody wanted to be their allies, even less friends, since ever. Take our country and people for example. They forced us to cede Bessarabia after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact in 1940, and aided illegitimately install a communist puppet government in 1947, deposing our last King who ruled democratically, with the support of the people until that point. Then we all know what happened, as consequences follow in to this day, with millions of Romanians still living outside of the mother nation's borders.
Romania literally fought with Nazi Germany. You were an adversary siding with a vicious and murderous regime. That was the price you paid for that.
@@pepsisupremacy5533 That isn't so cut and dry as you put it. Yes, we did ally with Germany, but that was only because there was no other choice since we risked getting invaded by them should we have said no (there was actually a plan to invade in order for Germany to take our oil fields had we refused to bow down to them) or even by the Soviet Union, since the Allies were in no position to help us and nobody else next to us was in the position to. Also, we entered the war with the SU to get our stolen territories back, but Romania's dictator at the time (Antonescu) decided to go past them anyway (whether we actually had a choice in that or not is also a problematic topic, but I think we didn't). It was pretty much the same for Bulgaria when Germany wanted to send troops through it to aid Italy against Greece.
@@pepsisupremacy5533 Except the USSR was arguably an even more vicious and murderous regime. What price did they pay for happily massacring Poles with the Germans? 1991 was not enough.
@@jizznuts downplaying the crimes of the Nazis makes you have no credibility.
@@pepsisupremacy5533 Exposing one's crimes is not downplaying the other's. You have no credibility for denying obvious crimes committed by the Soviets.
I said arguably worse because they killed more people, but both were equally horrible.
So...not only was this a verbal agreement, but it was one that was done just by the president without going through congress? It has no value whatsoever, especially since that president is no longer elected today.
How can you talk about any of this without mentioning Transnistria and the Chechen wars? One of the main drivers of Polish NATO membership was the results in the first Chechen war (1994-1996) and Transnistria war (1990-1992). The second Chechen war (1999-2000) happened a couple of months after Poland gained membership, and before any of the Baltic states did! These actions were key in driving Eastern European suspicions of Russia into overdrive, which in turn led them to apply for NATO membership for security, so Russia wouldn't try to do the same they did in Chechnia and Romania to them.
This. Its crazy how many people don't realize Russia has been using the same playbook to oppress Baltic states since the USSR's collapse (if not before).
@@Scorch052 since WW II...
List of all the countries bombed by the United States under the pretext of establishing Democracy since the 2nd World War.
- China 1945-1946
- Korea 1950-1953
- China 1950-1953
- Guatemala 1954
- Indonesia 1958
- Cuba 1959-1960
- Guatemala 1960
- Belgian Congo 1964
- Guatemala 1964
- Dominican Republic 1965-1966
- Peru 1965
- Laos 1964-1973
- Vietnam 1961-1973
- Cambodia 1969-1970
- Guatemala 1967-1969
- Lebanon 1982-1984
- Grenada 1983-1984
- Libya 1986
- El Salvador 1981-1992
- Nicaragua 1981-1990
- Iran 1987-1988
- Libya 1989
- Panama 1989-1990
- Iraq 1991
- Kuwait 1991
- Somalia 1992-1994
- Bosnia 1995
- Iran 1998
- Sudan 1998
- Afghanistan, 1998
- Serbia 1999
- Afghanistan, 2001
- Iraq in 2003
- Libya 2011
Answer the following question: How many times was a democracy recognized by these US military interventions born?
I was surprised the Budapest Memorandum was not brought up either. I can’t imagine how painful it is for Ukrainians to know they gave up their nuclear weapons for essentially nothing. Even if Russia had the launch codes, 30 years is a long time to think of a workaround.
they were so afraid of the russians that they had to join nato and invade iraq! truly brave poles, can't wait to see their country struggle under the weight of the refugee crisis as ukraine is destroyed like kennan said it would be.
Russia: Attempts to annex its neighbours.
Neighbours: “let’s join NATO”
Russia: “This is NATO aggression!”
What's worse is that RT blames the west for nearly every conflict in this century, not even saying Putin aggression to many of those countries like Georgia and Ukraine
@@finalMadfox before my country blocked it I used to enjoy reading Russian counterintelligence(RT)...it was hilarious
@@finalMadfox who started war in Georgia exactly? By the way, why did Putin started bombing Belgrad? Was he even sanctioned after that?
@@sashagrey2984 Wh yes the classic whataboutism
Idiot, the NATO expansion started after collapse of the USSR, and when Russia was weak and pity, we couldn't even protect ourselves, and yet, they're feeding Ukraine about joining NATO even when we were weak, and only when NATO refuse to say "no we do not let Ukraine joined us", we invade. If they could say just one thing, we could escape this war.
Russia: I want to have Friends
Russia: ( Punches it's neighbors)
The other neighbors: that guy is bad let's go talk with the blue guy with eyeglasses
Russia: I want to have Friends
Neighbors: we dont want to be friends with you, we will surround you with military bases.
Russia: Ok😎👌
@@eugenbrandon1856 Russia: I want to have friends
Russia: denies the existence of its neighbors as sovereign states, and tries treating them like puppets
Neighbors: maybe we should join the group who'll protect us from this sort of thing
@@Ropetrick6 It's really funny to read about puppets.
Meanwhile:
- Yushchenko's pro-American puppet government with an illegal brown "orange revolution" in 2004:
- Poroshenko's pro-American puppet government with an illegal brown "revolution of dignity" in 2014:
- Elensky's pro-American puppet government in 2019:
----- Am I some kind of joke to you?
@@eugenbrandon1856 Yes, you are a joke.
@@eugenbrandon1856 There's a very noticeable line between "puppet government" and "government that leans more to a side".
Belarus has a puppet government. Everything is controlled by Russia.
Ukraine has a government that leans to the USA. It has its own free choice.
As a defense contractor, I lost my job in the early 10's when NATO was being seen increasingly as a relic in a world tired of american interventionism.
I got it back when Putin invaded Georgia and, thanks to the 'special operation,' have more job security than I'll ever know what to do with. Thanks, Putin, for reviving the western military industrial complex and ensuring I'll always have work! NATO salesman of the decade!
I am from Slovakia
my country has been in NATO for 16 years, we have never had a good armed army, almost all arms tenders have been stolen or overpriced and useless equipment has been bought. Our membership has always been almost formal. Now at the aggression of Russia the entire eastern bloc is threatened, anyone who can arm will be armed
When you were Czechoslovakia you made the best Weapons on the Warsaw Pact patterns available. I have faith you can do the same with NATO standard equipment too.
I am American 🇺🇸 and we are all under the same umbrella and will help each other. Your country is doing a great job.
@@happydee6950 nah, Czechoslovakia was like the 15th largest economy in the world, a lot have changed in the past 30 years. Eastern Europe although it had rapid growth it is not what it once was, today Asia has the first word.
@@naaaron7378 bruh, you litteraly on the other continent, in another part of the world, what the “same umbrella” u blubbering about, lol
@@K17ASU If you can talk like an adult and not a ghetto trash kid, it's cause these are all Western countries of similar origins.
Russia has been keeping its ex-Soviet "allies" poor and weak as policy since the end of the USSR. NATO expansion would have been impossible if these countries were as successful and wealthy as Russia. They are not, despite some (like Ukraine) having all the resources and infrastructure to be.
It's like imagining Canada leaving NATO to join a China led Pacific alliance. How badly would USA need to treat them for that to happen.
Yes, yes, it is Russia's fault that since the 1990s, the government of Ukraine, changing each other, has worked only to replenish its own pocket. It is. Really. Aha. Now take the pill, Mr. Justin.
@@loyalybrantsinc2599 Yeah I guess ex-Soviet allies only finding success after leaving Russia's sphere of influence is a coincidence.
Many Ukrainian and other ex-Soviet countries' governments were corrupt. That doesn't mean Russia didn't play a part in it, they propped up many corrupt foreign governments through, you guessed it, corruption.
And even if you can't admit a connection between Russia and it's neighbours (the idea that they're not involved in influencing their neighbours' governments is laughable and shows your ignorance, btw), Russia takes real economic steps to hold back its allies. Shutting down pipelines, cutting off gas and other exports... Just do a TINY bit of research and you'd see it.
With your "logic", I bet you'd flick cigarettes onto your neighbours house and then blame them when the neighbourhood burns down, since they didn't put it out in time.
"successful and wealthy as russia" lol. good one
@@Lem0nsquid Wealth is relative. Per capita GDP of Russia is 10k excluding the oligarchy's offshore assets and wealth, which is half the Russian economy. Belarus was 6k. Ukraine was 3k before the invasion, despite having huge gas resources and previously being the breadbasket and steel heartland of two continents.
Former USSR allies are being robbed by the West as colonies.
You forgot to mention the role of NATO in the Balkans during the mid to late 1990s. Russia supported Serbia since before World War I, and our support of the countries wanting to break away from Serbia, such as Croatia and Kosovo, was seen as a betrayal in Moscow. NATO was the military force used as the peacekeeping units since Russia would have used their veto power on the UN Security Council to keep UN troops out.
Well, I'm not sure what should have been expected tbh. When Putin claims to want a massive neutral buffer and then, at every opportunity, abuses that neutrality to supply, fund and promote pro-russian violence in those neutral states, I think NATO involvement was inevitable.
@@Ichthyodactyl idont remember him doing that in georgia or ukraine for that matter
Maybe he should have convinced his friends in Serbia to stop murdering people.
That was western propaganda. They were crimes by all sides, but we were those who lost some land and people got expeled. War tribunal in Hague was american circus, needed to blame one side for the civil war. Read of some crimes against Serbian people and you will know why there was some revange.
@@milantoth6246 never happened, but they deserved it and we'll fucking do it again if we get the chance
Old video, but I like how you put the link for the Red Cross organization to help the Ukrainians.
The same organization that does complete shit to help Ukrainian POWs who are in Russian captivity? Yeah, bad move.
Russia: *threatens its neighbours, shows worse living standards than the West*
Russia's neighbours: *want to get closer to the West and further away from Russia*
Russia: *surprised Pikachu face*
@@Jujuo0o 140 million people, some of the best access to raw materials, vast territory, past superpower status
Has the same GDP as Italy
(Good arguments there, by the way)
where is my comment?
@@armintargaryen9216 you mean the same GDP as Spain, Italy is far stronger economically than Russia.
Czech and Slovak people definitely don't look too fondly of Russia. In 1968, we were invaded because the Soviets didn't like how our government was trying to push to being closer to the west or US. I think what basically happened is that they drove with tanks into our cities and just stood there until the government gave up and resigned.
My parents grew up in 60s-90s Czechoslovakia and I heard stories about there being massive difficulties to buy cars and you had to stand in line for days or bribe in order to guarantee yourself a car, otherwise all the cars would be sold "under the table" and "mysteriously" not be available for you to buy (because they were sold to bribers). And you couldn't speak out or you would go to prison where you'd possibly work in an uranium mine. Also stories about how if you said one thing bad about the state or didn't declare yourself as atheist or didn't attend victory parade celebrations, they'd do everything they could to block you from having a university education.
I also heard about things where every year there was always some resource that was in shortage everywhere yet you could bribe to obtain, like tooth paste for example. Also, due to poor management, cities tended to be very short on stock of advanced appliances while random villages tended to have all those goods because villages didn't need them, so for instance I believe if you wanted to go buy a TV you had to go to some random village, even though villages didn't need TVs, because the cities were out of stock.
They also put fake borders where you'd think you crossed the border, but the people there are actually just tricking you and ready to bring you back to put you in jail for attempting to leave the country. Or there would be people who would pretend to be American spies asking for information when they were actually state police trying to catch you for treason.
What my father told me was that it came to an end when students were beat up by the authority for protesting on student's day, and some of the news decided to just give up censoring some of it because it was so brutal, and eventually everyone's parents started standing up with the students because they didn't want them to hurt, and many major cities got onboard and eventually so much of the country was protesting that the government just gave up and non-communist leaders were elected instead. This was the velvet revolution.
Last month watched a show about tanks, and it was said the tanks send in first were from other Warsaw pact countries, and so were not shot at. (Or maybe that was Hungary. My education on the cold war has just begun)
Suggest you look on RUclips for Reagan soviet jokes. He actively looked for jokes the Russians would tell among themselves. Like: one guy asks his friend if they have achieved full communism: is this it? And the other guy replies: No, it will get far worse.
Btw, the whole Donetsk/ Luhansk thing gave me really strong Sudetenland vibes
Can I message you somewhere, I would love to know how it was for you to grow up in your country,, because for me, I guess you can say I was “lucky” to be born in 2000’s , I missed hard time of the 80’s and 90’s and Russia slowly but somehow was “rising”
But I heard a lot of similar stories to yours from our past… and it’s really interesting to know how it was for you and for me and compare it✨
Dubcek did not want to go closer to the west, he wasn't an american muppet or anything, he just wanted Socialism without Soviet control over his head.
cool so you ok with germans and poles who ripped you in half in 38?
Had a czech girlfriend and she hates so much russians. She always told me without soviets czech could have reach austrian standard of living. Looking at the constant increase of GDP and the renewing of buildings I can tell she was right. Czech ,despite being slavs, seemed to me heavily influenced by austrian and german mentality and customs. Slovaks,hungary ,poland and slovenia fits in this central european lifestyle.now I think the aforementioned nations are fully integrated in the EU and we think of them not less as spain france or greece.
Russia; "You took everything from me."
NATO; "That's the neat part; We didn't!"
Man i live in estonia and i couldnt imagine what hell it would be here if we werent accepted into nato
You guys would’ve needed to get nuclear weapons to ensure your sovereignty if not for NATO
You can. Tartu separatists were a thing in the past.
For nearly thirty years, Russia has slowly but surely pulling itself out of the Dissolution of the USSR. Building up infrastructure, coming to table for negotiations with both former Soviet states and Western powers, developing an entirely new economic and political system, forming and joining trade partnerships, keeping the ruble afloat, and overall doing a complete 180 of how their country worked since the Revolution. To a degree, Russians still miss some of the safety nets, labor security, and pensions that the USSR had, but with an assumingly democratic system of government and a growing economy with a lot of potential, it did look like Russians at some point would enjoy a higher, freer quality of living as the country reasserted itself. It might take a few decades, but it wasn't impossible.
And then Putin threw that all into the toilet in less than two weeks. Companies have left Russia, the ruble is shot, Russian expats and international students either can't or won't go back, sanctions have already crippled the economy, with already trillions of state-funds going into a land-grab that's costing more and more time, money, and lives.
Putin has validated the existence of NATO and is likely going to return the Russian economy to the 90s, and it's all 100% his fault.
Democracy is useless for a country like Russia. Democracies only have short term plans, and poicies change each time a new party is in power. Why do you think Singapore, South Korea and other countries which were underdeveloped got successful so quick? Dictatorship in the beginning and democracy later on.
@@ihatemotionblur_3255 North Korea you say? Successful you say?
@@sickrantorum693 South korea mb*
@@ihatemotionblur_3255 That's totally wrong. Democratic countries do have long-term plans. The problems arise when a country's at war with itself ideologically, as seen with the US and its almost bipolar dissonance (which is flamed by Russia interference btw). Things will be very different for Russia if it welcomes democracy for the simple fact that there are clear priorities for things that should be done, which are rebuilding its economy and relationship with its neighbors among other things. If the leaders get voted in properly based on what the people want they are more or less forced to work toward the same goal there's not much to worry about. If someone sucks at it they won't get voted in next time. That's unlike what Putin's doing now where he wants war and the people can do nothing to stop it without turning to something extreme.
The exception to what I said would be if there's corruption, but that's just the same for any system of government and it's up to Russia to lay the necessary groundwork to discourage it from happening.
@@niello5944 There's barely any difference between the two parties in the USA, same in the UK. The republican party is right wing, the democrat party is just a little less right wing.
At 8:14 it's actually the Bulgarian flag, not the Hungarian. Same colors, different order :P Just wanted to nitpick a little. Otherwise, great video.
Damn it you beat me to it.
Good video, what's up with all those comments coming from "name-surname-number' accounts? Surely those aren't paid shills, right?
not exactly, they are bots. russia has a weak military but their propaganda game is top notch. then idiots believe them and spread it more
As a Czech, we never forget how Russia invaded us in 1968. So no, NATO does not betray Russia. We chose NATO and Europe.
We the bulgarians also invaded you in 68.
@@hotlinemiamifan weird flex but ok
@@hotlinemiamifan Bulgaria was a puppet of the Russians anyway, so Bulgaria should not be blamed. No one blames Bulgaria for its involvement at all.
In 1968, not one Czech town was destroyed. No one was killed. Now compare it to the liberation of Iraq and Libya. Russia is also a part of Europe by the way. Best thing is to be independent, without any big brothers.
@@grundgesetzart.1463 Wow, so killing 5,000 people and then staying occupation is fine. Typical Russian logic.
Those in Finland who read have read history, are having rapid whiplash from the deja vu of Russia invading Ukraine claiming they were a threat. Kinda hoping *this time* Ukraine, the country defending their independence, is not held internationally responsible for the conflict and made to pay reparation to Russia.
Yeah, you nasty Finns pushing Russia around all the time. ;-)
In respects of shadow b*nn*d anon who replied under me and can't be read now.
Did Finland invade Russia or something? What are you talking about?
Oh during World War II Finland did invade a part of Russia with Nazi Germany in the Continuation War after Finland was invaded previously by Russia in The Winter War. Neato. I had heard about Germany advancing on Russia in World War II, but there was no great emphasis on any aid by Finland that I recall. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I'm sure Finland was merely defending itself after being invaded. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.
@@wedgewizard5429 Well we lost 20% of farmland, second largest city and had hundreds of thousands refugees and then Germany comes "hey, wanna invade ussr and get your shit back?". 5 years later we lose even more land and have to pay shitload of reparations, also become kind of puppet for russians but still stay independent
As a Slovak citizen I am glad that we joined nato and the EU. Although far from perfect atleast we have protection against Russia.
I'm glad its worked out for you guys... but who would protect you from us? lol. Better hope they don't find oil in your country or 'murica will open up a can of democracy to get rid of your non existent WMDs. Seriously though our government is fucking corrupt as hell and sneaky about it.
@@naejimba Well, the USA is not that hostile to (most) Europe, as they had been with Latin America. (Remember who took half of Mexico, who did a lot of shit in Central America, and promote dictatorships in the region.
So if that worked for (most of) Europeans, is ok then. But an Latin America, we want the USA far from our things (Trade is fine, but their politics and ideologies, we like it far as possible)
The only problem is that Countries like China and Russia actually know that, and some countries in the regions tried to remplace the USA with China and Russia, and now we have 3 superpowers doing their shit in the region. Some others just became so pro-USA as much as they can (Like some Central American nations)
So we have Venezuela being in eternal debt with China, Cuba as a militar plataform of Russia, Colombia becoming a military base for the US. Some Central Americans Nations becomming pupet states fror either, USA or China.
From a Mexican Perpective, the less toxic relation we have is with Russia. (Americans are so bipolar and China is our rival in relation to exports). Still, we are big enought to be able to resist American, Chinese and Russian Influence. But is not the same in all Latin American Countries.
But if you see history from many places you see that every superpower do their shit. Even if I don't dislike Russia from my personal experiences, this doesn't means I ignore that in many points, Russia had done a lot of harm to Eastern Europeans. So in a way, I can undestand why they are looking for American Protection, even if I am not a huge fan of the Americans.
@@Yha1000itz , quite true... my comment was really to make a joke. Africa probably has it the worst out of everyone; it isn't just about funding coups but to strip them of every resource and take advantage of slave labor (child slaves harvest the coca beans for the chocolate we eat).
We ship our trash over there like a huge dump and people sift through it to get by. If they have a genocide or starve no one cares since all the elites of other countries would like it if the world population is less and it's super convenient if many of them just die.
And at least in the US our media is COMPLETELY silent about all of it... we have so many operations over there and we are using drones and you just can't get any good information on what the hell is going on and why... it is a complete blackout and typically even alternative and independent media doesn't cover any of it.
So as an American I have no clue what is going on in some of those countries, other than that some of them have had bloody civil wars between warlords for years and years; they tell us about Ukraine because it is in their best interest, we hear nothing about Yemen but at least people here can get SOME information on it. But Africa might as well be on Mars and its insane the impact the control of information has.
Russia unintentionally shot themselves in the foot with the war in Ukraine, proving the justification for NATO.
Ahahahah, OMG NATO afraid of Russia, udk? ahahaha, pendos kid 🤣.
and make people of ukraine hate them even more...
@@neoject5049 Rusian make their neighbour have strong reason to join NATO.
Nope. It is not against Ukraine, it is US-Russian co-op to kill EU by cutting off Russian oil, gas and other resources.
Did Russia seriously expect that the countries they occupied for decades wouldn’t join NATO pretty much immediately after the USSR collapsed, considering how weak the countries were and still are compared to Russia? Independence from communist rule was largely celebrated across Eastern Europe, why on Earth would’ve they wanted to stay under Russian influence?
I don’t think there ever was even a miniscule possibility of Russia joining NATO. They are just so different from the West and after competing with the West for almost a century, they never would’ve wanted to humiliate themselves by becoming a client state of the U.S. Yeltsin’s rule was a total embarrassment for Russia and by then it was already clear that the Western-style rule could not work in a country like Russia.
@@Pierre-Rambal_Cochet Why reinvent the wheel when you already have a perfectly workable one readily available? It's not like that would have been all that different in result, either.
The whole claim about NATO is just smoke and mirrors. Putin wanted to rebuild the USSR. Then he shot himself in the foot with an artillery cannon.
@@Llortnerof lol
Putin and his supporters are like that one abusive parent who will never understand why their kids never visits them.
@@Pierre-Rambal_Cochet I'm Finnish myself and I don't think the Baltic states could've done the same thing as we did simply because,
1. The Baltic states had extremely weak military forces and they would not have been able to defend themselves at all in case of a Russian attack. Likewise, Western Europe in the 1990s was still militarily very weak and couldn't challenge Russia's military power without the help of the U.S.
2. The Baltic states have huge Russian minority populations due to the Soviet population transfers. As we saw with Ukraine already years ago, Russia is very serious when it comes to countries with significant Russian minority populations. The Baltic states were scared shitless of a new Russian annexation and wanted protection. The 1991 January Events in Lithuania certainly didn't help the situation, as after declaring independence, Soviet forces attacked Lithuania and killed unarmed protestors there.
3. The Finnish stance of neutrality is deeply historical and we've always had decent relations with the USSR and Russia ever since the end of WW2. The Baltics are a different story and they were desperate to break out of Russian influence by any means necessary. They very much wanted to join the West and didn't care what their former rulers wanted them to do.
@@Pierre-Rambal_Cochet Ukraine gave up their nukes to Russia in exchange for a guarantee of security, see how that panned out. It is naive to think that anything but a strong military deterrent would stop Russia from meddling in or even invading countries like the baltic states.
Short Answer: No
Long Answer: Definitely Not.
Short answer: this vid
Long answer: Sarcasmitron's vid
"Well, gif, the short answer is no. The long answer is, NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
- Strong Bad, from Homestar Runner, email 204, "Independent."
Great video
The one complaint I have is that we didn't just sanction Cuba when it fell into Soviet orbit, we did sort of invade it.
Or at least organized and gave direct support to an invasion by political exiles.
In addition to trying to assassinate their leader dozens of times, releasing foreign insects into the Cuban countryside to try and induce a famine, etc.
It's so much more than just the sanctions, and it's a testament to the will of the Cuban people that they still haven't collapsed despite everything - instead of falling back into being an economic colony of the US 30 years ago.
They haven't collapsed... But they haven't had a great time...
Bay of Pigs, Then operation Northwoods.
US gov is full of demons
then again, all governments are...
I mean the US is the only country that doesnt do comerce with cuba, cuba is allowed to sell their products to other nations
"Releasing foreign insects."
This is a Cuban lie whenever a crop fails. Because Socialist agriculture would never fail except for hoarders and wreckers, comrades.
Did the people here who say "tHis is russophobic!!!" even watch the whole video? It's mentioned countless times, that yes, other countries did do bad things, but that doesn't justify Russia invading Ukraine, like, jesus christ, please learn to r e a d.
Putin lovers don't understand logic
literally no one is saying that
@@__40su The user "Сир, ведите нас в бой!" wrote 7 days ago, wrote that video is Russophobia: I asked him about the moment in the video where it is Russophobia.He has not replied to this day.
@@stefan-xaverscherrer7648 okay
@@stefan-xaverscherrer7648 of course he didnt reply its a bot
During the Cold War, NATO was just a military alliance. But in my personal opinion, I think it’s good they stayed around. Before the War in Ukraine, I don’t think NATO was exactly AGAINST Russia. It was still a military alliance, but I think it kind of grew into something more. But who knows, just my opinion. I’m not a major politician, I’m just some dumb**s on the internet.
Yeah, even without a threat the idea of such cooperation especially on the blood-soaked fields of Europe is a nice ideal, It's like the U.N but it actually works.
I find it kind of funny how Russia didn't want to become a part of Europe but they do want Europe to be part of Russia
Russia DID apply for EU, but was told to buzz off. Cause Russia would've become the biggest nation of EU--thus one of its chief decision makers. The West is to blame for always excluding Russia.
@@ElBandito
1. Im pretty sure they didn’t, better present some good evidence for that.
2. Even if they did, of course they would be told to buzz off. Turns out EU-membership requires a adherence to certainty values that are incompatible with a autocratic mafia-state.
Russia is part of Europe, not of the EU. Learn the difference
@Mr. Nobody Stop making stuff up. He never said anything about friendship.
You need to learn how to use logic correctly. Russia is part of Europe because part of the European continent is Russian territory. Russia is not part of the EU because they are not members of their committees.
@@GuideGame1 it’s obvious that he is talking about friendship…
I am Canadian, but of Vietnamese descent, and so I have an insight about how Russia treated allies back then. Take Vietnam as an example.
Although Vietnam could be said as an "ally" (to even today), but Russia did not treat Vietnam as an equal partner, and still does not. When Stalin was approached by the communists of Ho Chi Minh, Stalin rebuffed them and stated the Vietnamese movement nothing more but a bunch of "cavemen". The Russians, alongside the Chinese, supported partitioning Vietnam into two halves in 1954. Even during the time of Vietnam War, the Russians did not like North Vietnam's refusal to align its policies completely to Moscow, and had sought to punish the North several time, most notable one being the 1972 Operation Linebacker II, when the Russians secretly agreed to let the Americans bomb North Vietnam to punish Hanoi for not informing its diplomacy to Moscow. Even after unification, Russia still treated Vietnam like an enemy with an ally mask, when Russia did nothing as Vietnam was assaulted twice by China in 1979 and 1988. Today, despite still licking the word of "Russo-Vietnamese friendship", Russia is openly backing Chinese aggression against Vietnam in South China Sea, and China's encirclement plan against Vietnam, even going as far as selling superior weapons to China while selling sub-standard guns for Vietnam to fend off.
If Russia could "treat" Vietnam that way, then I don't feel surprise why most of Russia's neighbours (except for China) want to decouple entirely from Russia.
China doesn't even like Russia lol
@@twinzzlers But China does not scare of Russia. The rest are.
@@josephjoestar5690 Nobody in Nato is afraid of Russia, they only have their nukes.
@@twinzzlers Now part of NATO makes many former communist states in Eastern Europe safe. But this is because many of them are small nations, they need a protector.
China is far more different because it is gigantic and also far more powerful. Putin hates the West and he doesn't like anything Western, but he cannot resist Chinese influence because Russia is now just a junior partner to China.
There were reports of Russia treating the residents of Donetsk & Luhansk as lesser than them too
You know, for a country that says it's better than America, Russia seems very adamant on taking on our worst traits
Word!
I don't think Russia says that, it's Europeans with their free healthcare and welfare funds
@@glocksmith226 to be fair Europe isn't wrong
@@DrTid yeah
and none of the good ones
I knew much of this already but the video was interesting. Thanks for the upload. Now even to the slowest of us it is painfully obvious why Eastern Europe wanted EU and NATO membership years ago... to avoid Ukraines reality now.
I've met several international students from Baltic countries and to be honest they are distrustful of the Russians. There is not a paranoia or fear but a real distrust. Decades of one party, one maximum leader and one country rule will do that.
Honestly baltic people are he people you should talk to in these times. They experienced all the shit, they can give you all the reasons why russia sucks and if you fear moskals might as well come visit here cause they all get jailed, great food also
As a Russian, I confirm that hundreds of people are in prison for their antiwar statements. Some of them were convicted just for using the word "war".
Show me a country with a population higher than a million, that doesn't have hundreds of people in prison.
Stay safe friend
@@HobanProductiondid you just missed the part about unconstructive criticism of doings of your government, especially when you're a just a simple singer? Firstly, you need to gain some competency in an object of criticism, secondly, if you really want to change things - use your competency and join some organization, which will be participating in developing optimization processes. Other way - get da hell out of that country. No whining on RUclips and concerts about things you really don't get
@@salamander4668 mush brain
Кто был осуждён за использование слова война?
Russia has and had no reason to be afraid of NATO unless they already want to invade other countries.
Wrong
@@farzanamughal5933 why? Why should Russia be afraid of a defensive alliance if they want to be peaceful?
I bet you this is about to turn into a 30 comment long debate.
I mean, Russia already saw NATO as a hostile force. So if you see it as a hostile force, of course you’d be scared of them.
@@burningphoenix6679 The Putin simp said you’re wrong without giving any evidence so he must be right. A defensive alliance of countries whose populations are extraordinarily anti-offensive war is a great threat to peaceful, independence respecting Russia
Putin: *doesn't want to have the Eastern European countries joining nato*
Also putin: *gives eastern European countries a reason to join nato*
Putin didn’t just shoot himself in the foot by invading Ukraine, he shot his whole damn leg off. Support for NATO was gradually decreasing as it was seen as no longer necessary. Now, Putin reinforced that support ten fold and even neutral countries are deepening ties to NATO. Even Sweden & Finland, nonNATO neighbors of Russia are now seriously considering joining NATO. Also, for any tankies that come across this, no, NATO never made a promise to stop allowing others from joining. Even the Russian govt itself never shows any evidence as to when this supposed deal to stop “expanding” was made. And if it was made, sometime somewhere, it doesn’t appear in any official documents or treaties, meaning it isn’t legally binding. Also also, every nation that joined NATO did so voluntarily.
Russia essentially thought they could bully and threaten their neighbors into their rule.
Should've remembered last time that it didn't work either with groups like the Baltic Forest brothers being a giant thorn in their side
Do you know any of those countries's names? No cheating, just a couple of names of eastern european countries, except for Ukraine
@@so2easy
Estonia
Slovenia
Czech Republic
Poland
Romania
Lithuania
Latvia
Hungary
@ThatSovietGuy
I just forgot to add in a "a reason to join" but missed that
A lot of Russians don’t see their “neighbors” as neighbors. They see everything that was part of the USSR as their own territory that they would like to bring back, at least influence wise because they don’t approve of the collapse of the USSR. Whether it’s right or wrong to see it that way that’s what a lot of people think if you imagine any country disintegrating into many countries people may not be happy with such a territory loss.
Russia sees Eastern Europe as their playground. The issue is this view is outdated already. It's no longer 1815 where Russia got to decide the fate of nations like Poland or Finland.
The imperial mentality still lives on
@@Game_Hero in the minds of US and EU propagandists
@@fgfgsl-l1i In the minds of multinational empires who refuse to let go, this includes Russia amongst others. The EU is an inter-country association, like ASEAN.
@@fgfgsl-l1i
When was the last time the US or EU invaded a country to annex it?
Im history student in Mexico. I'm concerned of how pro Russian my colleges and professors are. But not because they think Russia is good but because NATO is bad and therefore Rusia must be not too bad.
Their logic is that surely totally NATO is threatening Russia.
Yesterday we had a conference with a guy who studies Russia and stuff. I get that you can't be 100% objective and I get that saying NATO is also bad don't believe in American propaganda is necessary but. I know my shit.
I swear I listened NATO, Libya, Iraq, Yugoslavia like 40 times but not even once I heard Pact of Varsovia, Chechenia, Abjasia, Belarus.
Dude called Zelensky authoritarian. Like dude I know Zelensky isn't Buda but you're saying that Rusia invaded Ukraine because the president was becoming authoritarian... Rusia... The country with the same president for the last 20 years...
Idk man I don't like NATO either I'm just suppoting hard Ukraine because yeah, we all do bad thing and we all do thing for convinence. But as you said, that doesn't mean Invading someone is cool.
My colleges said that we'll look Afganistán, the Americans invaded it.
And first, Russians did it first. Second. That's also fucking wrong and doesn't mean Putin is the good one here.
Sorry for the rant. I dislike so much that people who are supposed historians go to justify actions not thinking that hey, maybe countries work by convenience and not by moral good vs evil.
From what I've seen many Latin Americans hold a grudge against the US for what happened during the Cold War like Operation Condor and such. I oftenly criticize such events but because I am generally against dictatorships and authoritarianism, therefore I criticize also Russia, China, Iran, Syria etc., regardless if US actions are good or not.
Tankies don't realize that you can't fight fire with more fire.
p.s.: Next time ask your colleagues this: if Russia is justified to invade Ukraine because of "defense against NATO expansion", should we justify American invasion of Afghanistan because of security against international terrorism?
@Underpaid T-72 mechanic nobody is living better because of shitty nato
You are right. In general, great powers face each other through other countries, spreading their influence around the world. During the 60's, 70's and 80's it was in this way that the powers of the West and East clashed. It's just that we're not in the second half of the 20th century anymore and it's odious for Putin to use his army to guarantee Ukraine's neutrality if it means stagnation for this country in terms of its aspirations to join the E.U. or return to the allegiance of times past to Russia. It is worth remembering that this is not the first time that Russians have tried to harass neighbors out of political and territorial ambition.
Spanish here ,and just saying this: from most people view on pro russians we know our shit alright?
Putin its not a Saint nobody would like to be in russia with Putin as president but even knowing that you cant pretend theres not a wall of military bases around russia and china growing every day
This situatión already happen with the cuban misiles its actually the same scenario but reversed
You cant pretend to have this moral stand of: we dont allow invasions on countrys and there Will be consecuences for It ,when you didnt apply this moral to yourself
OTAN and the USA are worst than russia in many ways for instance they allowed Franco and the traitor side to keep Spain for 30 years more becuase It was that or having some
Left-comunist governent take his place ,they also clean his dictatorship image and alow him to be in both Europe unión and the united nations and the same time alowing to keep killing ,ty to the US now we have 50 years of corruption that its imposible to clean from our history and our current politics they could put a an US president puppet but they choose the punish way
Making some práctice for when they cleaned Israel image in their invasions
Wich brings another point: aparently 1 ucranian civilan are worth for 20 from Irak or other invaded country ,you just have to look the way the treat each other
Ucraine its not a Saint either look Up azalov battalion and the neonazism regime from 2014
In a resume everyone would codem russia if It wasnt for the fact some actions cant go unpunished and others dont
An until that happen seems Fair that russia can invade ucraine
And for those Who think that happen a long ago and you cant Fix It now ,vale más tarde que nunca
As a fellow mexican, I'm sick of reading people defending Russia. I bet half of them wouldn't even recognize the baltic countries on a map and still have the "confidence" of saying Ukraine and the US staged a coup d'etat in 2014 and have been killing minorities ever since
This is also sad, really - the fall of an empire... that, as someone from Romania, I'm *so happy* it did. Life under the USSR was very hard & bleak, for most countries & ppl within those countries, involved. It was not a functioning system and you had no *freedom.* Everything was so stifflingly controling - and you were a prisoner in your own country. It set our country back decades, in development.
As a losing side, imploding under its own failed Communist system, the Soviet Union was just scrambling to get any deals/assurances it could internationally, sensing its own demise. But it was in no position to demand anything - that's why nothing was signed.
And again, as someone from Romania, *thank God* it wasn't signed.
Same thing goes to some extent with today's "westernised" influence over Europe, or more to be specific "americanised" influence which is done non-violently, but does affect the way how nations/cultures work: In this case both negatively and positively.
You werent even under total Soviet control. What your leaders did was what they did, cant blame Russia for that. And wishing the death of another country for you people appereantly "isnt an ok thing to do" ironic how you say you are different while doing the exact same thing.
I had hoped that when the Soviet Union fell it would be like Japan and Germany after the end of WWII. I guess that was naïve.😞
@@geoffreyherrick298 split in two and de-militarized isnt the best thing for Russia
@@tonk4487 It would be best for all Russia's neighbors
daily reminder that famously neutral Switzerland condemned putin for his war
🇨🇭🇨🇭🇨🇭🇨🇭🇨🇭
Czech person here. Please don’t call the Czech Republic, “Czechia”. We didn’t get to vote on that and was an arbitrary decision by corrupt politicians. It has no historical precedent and nearly everything ordinary Czech hates it. Now even more people confuse us with Chechnya 😐
Been wondering why the hell people have started using "Czechia" lately. I assumed they meant the Czech Republic. With the recent trends of changing terminology to fit agendas, I'm not surprised some "elites" did so for no logical reason.
"He killed 16 Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator."
i’ll still call the country Czechia
Why didn't you call it Czechland?
Well if people really wanted it to be one easy word with a nice ring to it, the best thing to call our country would be “Bohemia”, since it’d be historically precedented, fit in nicely with the +420 country code, and I suppose you could even say “politically correct” since it would include all three cultures present (Czechs, Moravians & Silesians), but if put to a vote most people would be perfectly fine with just keeping it Czech Republic. Plenty of countries have names longer than one word (United States of America), and if the US President suddenly renamed the USA “Amerikania” it’d be equally ridiculous.
It's insane how Russia continues to complain about the supposed NATO verbal agreement breach and use it to invade Ukraine (which is not yet a NATO state, and clearly did not agree to this), when Russia has a written agreement with Ukraine guaranteeing it will not invade (Budapest agreements when Ukraine decided to transfer its nukes). If Russia was pissed at Nato for expanding, perhaps they should have invaded a NATO country that made such promises, instead of Ukraine that not only did not, but has a written treaty guaranteeing its sovereignty and borders.
it's insane how little you understand the issue
"You don't know much about the issue"
*Doesn't elaborate*
"perhaps they should have invaded a NATO country that made such promises"
Invading a NATO country isn't a great idea, ever heard of article 5?
You can think of NATO as one big country. If Russia invades one of the NATO countries due to its expansion, a third world war will begin. Putin has repeatedly said - if you do not want to let us in, at least do not expand themselves. But everything is running out of patience, and now, apparently, the time has come to show that Russia's warning was not in vain. If you are surrounded by armed guys, do you need to stand and wait until you are robbed, or do you need to defend yourself by any means?
@@eugenbrandon1856 God, you make Russia sound like the biggest cuck ever.
Which I guess Ukraine is kinda showing them to be.
Loved it when you said you should look at events from multiple perspectives, but that doesn't all perspectives are equal. This is such a fallacy people fall into
The Warsaw Pact was not an alliance, it was a prison for central Europe who was being crushed under the heal of the USSR. aka RUSSIA
"It's always good to try to see from all perspectives, but not all perspectives are equal"
A thing many people need to hear.
*Shows Americans protesting all the wars they have literally taking part in after WW2*
Thank you Cody, people always seem to forget that wars aren't popular with anyone.
All of those people were in the minority. Look at how much support the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan got at first
@@salj.5459 it's irrelevant. The point is that they protested the wars nationally and didnt go to jail for thought crime. I can't say the same about russia
@@salj.5459 Afghanistan I’ll give you, since that support was clearly due to the unprovoked 9/11 attack.
But invading Iraq was wildly unpopular. I was against it myself and had lots of friends and family who also were. There were huge protests of the Iraq war at the time, and US consensus now is that George W Bush and Dick Cheney were morons. The only thing keeping W from being the worst US President is Trump.
@@bjordsvennson2726 No, it is relevant. I was only countering OP's comment, not saying anything about free speech in Russia.
@@catc8927 9/11 was many things, but it certainly was not unprovoked.
Problem with geopolitics and always looking for some deep roots of the problem is that sometimes people can't simply accept that some problems are simply black and white. How would USA felt if Canada joint China? Well If you want paralel with Russian situation first you need to imagine that USA invaded Canada, murdered over 1 milion citizen in few years to terrorize society, then started armed occupation supported by heavy political repressions to keep them as their "ally". Of course Canada then would turn to other superpower then if given opportunity. USSR was simply evil country and by look of things, Russia is on the same path.
Russia was never afraid of NATO but it is annoyance to them because it works and stops their genocaidal ambitions. Putin didn't invaded Ukraine to stop NATO expansion. UA actually wanted to join NATO in the past and was refused membership to "appease Putin" but nobody likes to mention that nowadays. Situation is actually quite opposite, if we would let them join we wouldn't have this mess today. Of course Putin knows it, that's why he constantly complains about "NATO expansion" - because if Ukraine joins NATO it would put stop to his insane wars with Ukraine.
I mean even Prigozhin has admitted a lot of what Putin says is bullcrap and he just wants to inflate his own ego and maintain his power.
I really can’t wait to see how all of this ends up being presented in future history books, since it’s such a messy conflict.
Hard to know for sure, except that it will be riddled with self-serving lies.
@@ShankarSivarajan A lot of history books are, unfortunately.
@@ShankarSivarajan war, war never changes. And all that.
It’s actually not that complicated. It’s the Putin apologists that are trying to twist facts and make whataboutism arguments to make it seem more muddied to justify Putin’s invasion.
@@brabbit330 The Russian invasion is not justified, is a violation of the international laws, a crime that need to be punished(but not in the way they are doing) with that being said, acting like NATO dosent have any guilt is wrong, Ukraine joing NATO is almost the same if mexico allied itself with russia on a military level(or Cuba, does anybody remember or studied what the Cuba missiles crises were? And how it got settled? i guess not), poking a angry bear(in the case of Putin a racist, homophobic, mysoginst olygarchy bear) is not how world politics should be, Ukraine should remain neutral for all that matters(and be respectfull of the Minks aggrements, something that they didnt do)
Both sides are in the wrong and is not black and white or good vs evil if you prefer, is a shitshow