Did NATO promise Russia never to expand to the east? | DW News
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
- Just before his army invaded Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin outlined his motivations in a speech.
His main argument: NATO's eastward expansion.
He blamed the extension of the military alliance ever closer to Russia’s borders and accused Western leaders of breaking alleged promises to never do so.
But experts disagree on whether that’s true.
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#Putin #Russia #NATO
Speaking as a citizen of one of those countries that were allowed to join NATO after 1991, I sure am glad we managed to join. My country directly borders Ukraine. If we weren't in NATO, right now I'd be packing my suitcases and trying to figure out how to immigrate to the UK or Germany. People who talk about Putin's side, and whether the West side broke its promise to Russia, tend to forget there is a third side - our side. They talk about us like we're a piece of territory, to be assigned to either East or West. We're not just territory, we're people. And we made a choice. NATO didn't "expand" to include the former Warsaw Pact countries. We asked to join and were accepted.
Oh god remove us from.....
US&THEM 🗣️🙏💯😵😭🤬
Your nationality?
@@jirachi-wishmaker9242 : Probably Polish, judging from the number of z’s in his username 😉
Exactly!
Couldn't agree more
The US did not accept Cuba having Soviet presence. Rightly so. So why should Russia accept NATO presence in Ukraine?
but the U.S didn't directly invaded Cuba and said that they would denazify them right??$@
Nato did not attack Russia/USSR. Russia has a long history of invading its neighbour what you can see today as well.
@@Blanka1100 that's right. And as what the video said that European countries are interested joining NATO not that NATO are forcing countries to be members.
@@Blanka1100 Yes, Russia has history for invade and how about NATO then? Kosovo? Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Both have history
@Neelesh 10 only nuclear missiles from ussr in cuba right? hehehehehe.
Didn't Russia pledge to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and territory in 1994?
well nato expended before 1994)
People who mention the Budapest Memorandum forget there's a myriad of international treaties and Charters protecting a country's sovereignty, not only Budapest.
The fact is since the U. S. GB began to interpret Article 2 and 59 of the U. N. Charter in the 1990's to permit Preemptive Defensive Humanitarian Military Interventions, state sovereignty is no longer guaranteed by law. If anyone feels threatened, by anyone anywhere, true or not, thanks to Pax Americana it's a jungle out there.
I would also remind you Ukraine's nukes were never theirs to give up. Ukraine never had access to or control of the SOVIET arsenal, neither the infrastructure to maintain and operate it. When the Soviets left they took their nukes with them.
So the Budapest argument you people like to pull out of the hat is just another hollow, knee JERK western talking point. In others words BS
@@AndryFateev But there was no pact Russian signed on NATO.
@@ntf5211 call it a coup how many times you want, but that same president of ukraine never respected the reason why he was elected in the first place... To look towards Europe. We all know it was a matter of time until Russia made Ukraine a puppet state like it does with others, specially Belarus. No small country can endure a major attack on it's Sovereignty without help from major power or an alliance.
Whoever helped in coup, it truly helped Ukraines sovereignty, it was like the smooth stones on David's sling.
@@Dumpsteret1 First part is matter of interpretation, though the US interventions occured, US borders never expanded due to them. US borders technically have not expanded in over 100 year's. As for nuclear weapons maintenance facilities yes, however Ukraine had scientists and engineers to make that possible. Ability to fire lmao, Ukraine could have very easily made any necessary changes to use and maintain their facilities. Ukraine played a leading role in Nuclear technology that started in the late 1920's. Putin made it very clear during the mention of Ukraine rearming due to failures of Russia to maintain the Buddapest Memorandum that Ukraine was very capable of doing so.
The fact that Finland joining NATO didn't get much of a reaction in Russia probably suggests it wasn't about NATO.
Correct
finland is less aggressive and more willing to negotiate unlike ukraine who will greet the american military ships and nuclear weapons and place them near russian border
@@SDDanil1123 Still ruins the narrative about big, bad NATO lmao
@@SDDanil1123 maybe Ukrainians would treat you better if you hadn’t occupied their lands, killed thousands of their people and stolen thousands of their children? Russian troops in Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine prove that the only aggressive neighbor is ruzzia
@@SDDanil1123 Nato is at Russia's borders for decades. Did Putin wake up yesterday? Nato is an excuse. Putin wants to annex Ukraine. And BTW Ukraine is not Russia's backyard anymore. It is independent state.
Maybe if he wasn't a dictator who wanted to dominate politics of the surrounding countries, then countries wouldn't seek to join NATO to protect themselves.
Yeah, Putin also broke the promise that Russia will become democratic country
@@mitzo
A country that size can't become one
China isn't one
India is struggling
America is two party duopoly
why you join NATO ? do you realize all US lead NATO countries have blood of innocent civilians on their hands? Palestine Iraq Syria yamen and Libya either directly or indirectly also we all know now how weak Russian army and on its peak Russian economy as big as state of Texas in US and the history and geopolitics in west Europe region Ukraine must be neutral so by contrast Ukraine war is west fault ? Putin is a dictator so why take a chance if we know it'll harm innocent civilians, Ah yes according to NATO this is acceptable losses
@@jirachi-wishmaker9242 are you trying to make excuses for why Putin is allowed to make himself president for life?
@@alexrowe7063 no Putin is a mass murderers
Am I giving excuses for him?
Interesting how conversations hold a lot of water but SIGNED agreements don't have any value like the Budapest Memorandum
No agreement signed or unsigned means much to anyone involved. The sooner you learn that, the better.
Because it doesn’t fit the Kremlin narrative of course, but are we surprised? Freedom = Slavery to them lol
@@sarlaz3407 WRONG !!!
@@troy66777 CORRECT !!!
CORRECT !!!
Would russians be so dumb not to have it documented?! Something so important?
Gorbachev was too optimistic.
Bahahaha
I'd also like to point out that these conversations were made with the Soviet Union and not the Russian Federation.
The Russian Federation is the official successor of the Soviet Union
If the russians wanted to keep their sphere of influence then maybe they should have done a better job. We always talk about NATO expansion on the east but we forget something. A country must Want to join NATO. NATO cant just force themselves into a foreign country, so its telling that a lot of eastern countries after the collapse wanted to join NATO and EU to pursue the western style of life. Russia makes so much money from their energy exports and yet outside of moscow and ST.petersburg the rest of the country lives in squalor and corruption. There have been many cases were corrupt politicians got exposed and never had any punishement because they are on Putin's payroll while at the same time any real politcal oposition putin had was either killed or thrown in jail. The western lifestyle isnt perfect of course , but at least its a much better alternative to what russia offers.
I guess there is a reason why A LOT of Russians look to immigrate to the "evil West" right ? If Russia is SOOO perfect what are they doing in todays EU ? ... but yes lets keep believing all the lies that Russia is perfect, and a superpower (which it isn't)
Yes but it is not an ideal world. They must still be accepted into NATO which is not within their country, even if they WANT to join, NATO has to approve it and go against the assurance they issued to the Russians. It is also a direct move AGAINST Russia to continually expand without a care in the world knowing fully well that the entire purpose of the alliance is to corner Russia.
Countries do not want to join any block or alliance, their leaders do. Previous Ukrainian leaders wanted to keep ties with Moscow, the current govt wanted with the west. Germany is the same country that started ww1 and ww2 but now takes orders from US and UK as the leaders are like that.
@@mysticwatersoo ??? The UK isnt even part of the EU anymore. Germany has the strongest position amongst all of the EU member states. How in your mind does that position translate to "taking orders from USA and the UK". Mind boggling
You don’t have to join NATO to pursue “western style of life”, whatever it means.
NATO has to decide if they want to include member or not. The final decision is to be made by NATO itself. They made the promise.
And they lied.
Thus launching a series of events that led to our current situation.
I love how Russia likes to mention an imaginary treaty but completely disregards the 1994 Budapest Memorandum that guarantees Ukraines 1994 Borders....signed by Russia, US, UK and Ukraine
US and UK should’ve enforced it too.
F Russia
"Treaties? Treaties? We don't need no stinkin' treaties!"
@@vk45de54
They are enforcing it
Sanctioning Russia and arming Ukraine with the latest NATO weaponry
@@unduloid
Russia: "theyre mean because they dont honor treaties"
Also Russia: "we dont honor treaties"
It started in Poland in February-June 1989 - not in East Germany. Also, in East Germany it started in 1989 (but in November), when the wall collapsed - not in 1990.
The wall didn't simply 'collapse'. It was pulled down, by those who lived there.
@@wessexdruid7598 Sure it didn't. That's a commonly used metaphor.
@@robbas_krk1510 Poland was first post communist to have free election. It was in June 1989 while The fall of Berlin Wall took place in November.
@@Blanka1100 That’s exactly what I’m saying.
What started ?
Show me the document, mr Pupin
The American Indians made over 1000 treaties with the USA. The USA broke everyone of them. USA said show us the treaties. They show them and the USA said Oh Well! Bill Bradley was 100% right.
Remember East Germany, the wall, the many people that had lost their life trying to escape, when the Soviet Union had invaded Hungary for declaring it's independence? That's why more boarding countries with the Soviet Union had joined NATO
We remember. The bully will never win. The Union is stronger than the lone wolf.
Not if he lone wolf armed with enough nukes. He's winning the war before it started, and he won't back out before he gets what he wants. Ukraine is being sacrificed. No one can win a fight with a madman who got nothing much to lose. We're all in the darkest hours.
Yes I remember watching it on TV was very big news
Nope. Post Soviet countries joined NATO because they had Russian tanks on their streets before trying to "restore the peace and order". Former soviet block break away countries know what it is like when Russia " brings peace and order."
@@yinli757 please don't say that Ukraine is going to win this illegal War that has been forced on them
I must say that this Kenyan politician said it best, a few weeks back when Russia invaded Ukraine. This speech “from the embers of dead empires”.
People will never agree looking backwards. Thinking like this Russia is actually owned by Mongolia, and most of Europe is owned by Italy.
Putin can not use history to break all existing laws, that’s just bad rhetoric.
That's ignoring the fact that Putin is trying to form an ethnostate. I think he's basically pursuing the same goal as countries like Japan and China.
You mean like Israel as well?
@@myviews9369 there is no rule of law in Russia so you point about contacts is I'll informed. also consider the Cinese practice wherein no contract is binding on both parties unless the wording states it is binding.... unless you are the government and you can do what you like
@@myviews9369 those countries are not in any contract with Russia, its their peoples willingly to join NATO, join democratic process, freedom of speech, freedom to critisize goverment and its policies.. remember Brexit?, peoples of Britain decided to leave European Union through vote, nobody point gun at them..
How about the most recent minks agreements in 2014 where Ukraine agree to give donbas and lunask special territory government. Instead Ukraine have been attacking those territory
Greetings from Finland. Interesting that Shifrinson and DW think that it is in the power of individual nations to dictate the security choice of sovereign nations. Nato did not expand to the east but Central European nations applied to join.
And now Finland!
I very much doubt whether anyone in power at the time actually saw the breakup of the Soviet Union coming a year in advance. My memory of the fall of the Berlin Wall was that analysts, and political and military were taken completely by surprise - and were totally flabbergasted when the Soviet Union fell apart a year later, though it was apparent to many ordinary people that it was (in both cases) a matter of when, not whether these events happened. Certainly that was the feeling amongst my circle, and none of had special information. So, James Baker could not have promised to bar Eastern European countries from NATO. It would have been inconceivable to him that the issue would even arise in his lifetime.
NATO leadership did not favour eastward expansion, most likely because they didn't believe that former Warsaw Pact countries feared Russia and actually wanted to be Western European - the Cold War in Europe was based on the idea that alliances and politics were static: 'everyone' knew that. To allow (for example) Poland to join would be to invite the cuckoo into the nest.
Look into it man. This guy Bruce P Jackson was a vice president for strategy at Lockheed Martin the year he left, he went on to the board for eastward expansion on NATO board. He was the main man behind getting nato east. Which comes with the condition that countries joining are to upgrade their fighter jets..
You're the dude giving wedding vows while eyeing the bridesmaids.
The dude isNATO.
@@Hhajsjeieirhrbbr look into it? Start with the Gorbachev who was the person with whom the Americans were negotiating with. You no what he said??? Nyet, no promises were made nor did he even ask
@@Hhajsjeieirhrbbrthat is really funny. Do you know whobwas the first country to join NATO partnership for pesce? Yes, Russia in 1995! Then followed by Nato Rusia council NCR. So dont give me this bs about bato expansion s d Russia having a problem with it!
This is a big-power view of the world.
From a position in a small country, the need for alliances is clear.
Even if NATO would no longer exist, there would be some alliance of most European countries that would replace it, maybe with a more militarized Germany or Poland, France or UK at its core.
Which would be better than a country that is on the other side of the Atlantic controlling Europe and war mongering
@@lamarazmoe6438 People are so quick to forget that the reason westernEurope can feed itself enough to think about these things is because of that country across the Atlantic. That country promised the USSR, not Russia
Ucraine is not a small country, it is really big and important.
If NATO truly was what it was claiming to be, firstly it would have been dissolved after the dissolution of the USSR.
Secondly, it would have at least once proven some value in acting as it was founded to be, i.e. as an organization to protect its member countries. In short, as a *Defensive* organization. Rather, NATO has not even once defended any member country. Since it was created, NATO has been exclusively an Aggressor, bombing, invading and destroying other countries.
@@nomayor1 NATO is a hegemonic imperialist power, which is why Columbia is a member even though it's in the southern hemisphere and mostly bordered by the Pacific Ocean
Putin should really start to think why "his friends" wanted to join NATO
For real. Honestly the way Putin has talked about this makes him appear like a schoolgirl that wasn’t invited to eat with the popular girls at lunch. Petty, angry, and completely deluded.
He is paranoid 😹
He saw NATO's performance all over asia & africa
Freedom & democracy everywhere😹
@@myviews9369 you do realize NATO doesn’t have weapons in Ukraine? Least of all nukes. Why’d the US bother with nuclear armed subs and ICBMs if they could just stick short range nuclear missiles a few hundred kilometers from Russian territory?
Maybe because of a political putch 2014 supported from USA?
Why are you just parroting this argument which was debunked long time ago? @DutchVII
Did - So far we know - the answer is - no.
There is no written declaration so far we know.
3:26 Ukraine was not promised membership. The secretary general at the time expressed his belief that Ukraine would become a member, but that is no guarantee or promise of future membership. While NATO has its' open door policy, NATO allies did't regard Ukranian membership as being realistic in the forseeable future.
There is important thing missing about definition of "expansion to the east" in 1990 - not only Warsaw PAct still existed in 1990,but also there was 80 000 Russian troops in Poland alone,and ZRussia didnt want to withdraw it even while Warsaw PAct ceased to exist. Btw. we in central and eastern Europe knew it very well,that Russian imperialism will come back sooner or later. Just want to remind,that Ukraine demanded security guarantees from Nato in 1994,when it was forced to give up their nukes. Guess,why?
OMG - thank you - that is so important to understand ! So wow: then they still gave the Status of protection in the Ukraine?. What exactly were the agreements ?
Budapest agreement, Russia guaranteed Ukraine peace and sovereignity
@@gailalbers1430 Russia is in the Ukraine because Kyiv had killed 13,000 civilians and NATO was doing nothing to stop it. End of story.
When that issue is done (if Russia has to win the Ukraine that is what will happen) the rollback on the expansion solution will begin as that is a separate issue that Brussels is involved in rather than the US. Brussels and the EU World Banks fund NATO rather than they fund the US.
It isn't like NATO doesn't back away from any treaty they sign, whenever they want, anyway.
@@waynegabler6570 tell me, why are you tripping so hard? What 13k are you talking about, this is all Putin’s bs.
@@waynegabler6570
Flagged for misinformation
Its not so much about "Eastern expansion" as it is about the People of Eastern Europe wanting to go West. For reasons...
Exactly!
There's a difference between joining a EU and NATO...
so if Canada and Mexico chooses to join a chinese NATO, America will be cool right?
@@Ursfrndlyneena But they don't want that. That's because the US does not threaten to invade them unlike Russia is doing in Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus and Kazakhstan.
After the dissolution of USSR, the "disputes" between Russia with Chechnya, Moldova and Georgia were the reasons which scared these countries to distance themselves from Russia. Beware of history revisionist/pootin-apologists attempting to rewrite history, they are many on the internet.
Did it ? Where is the evidence for this, I have yet to find any.
Does anyone care what Eastern Europe's will and voice was in all of this? Why should we always care what Russia wants?
What difference does it make if it was promised? It happened, they , nato continued to move to the east.
Nato does not expand by force. Countries apply to join with their own free will unlike Warsaw pact. Why did they join? Because Russia keeps invading and annexing its non Nato neighbours just because it could so Nato exists and expands for a reason. If Russia was a good neighbour, there would be no need to join Nato in order to be secured. Blaming Nato expansion is like blaming a victim for calingthe police because she did not want to be hurt anymore. Russia has nothing to say and can not decide about other country's pact choice.Putin invaded Ukraine because he wants to annex Ukraine. He did it because he could. He could do it because Ukraine is not Nato member. Nato is an excuse for Russia's greed.
How about the BUDAPEST MEMORANDUM ? which was a WRITTEN and SIGNED deal in which RUSSIA, USA and UK SIGNED to guarantee Ukraine's safety and sovereignty in exchange for its huge nuclear arsenal
@@m.k.3145 😂😂😂
What about it? Do you mean anyone but russia is allowed to break an agreement? Neither the US nor UK is guaranteeing ukrain's safety now. The deal is worthless.
@@m.k.3145 what about Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty - Russia broke it in 2014
@@tw0million Россия ничего не нарушала. В Крыму прошел референдум, где люди абсолютным большинством проголосовали за воссоединение с Россией. Международное право соблюдено, прецедент Косово. Кроме того, Крым это русская земля и народ Крыма никто не спрашивал, когда его подарил Украине Хрущев и даже тогда это было в рамках СССР. Крым вошёл в состав Украины в 1991 году на основании межгосударственного договора между Республикой Крым и Украиной, у Крыма был свой президент и конституция, а Украина выслала президента Крыма и отменила в одностороннем порядке конституцию Крыма, изменила ее под себя. Крымчане были преданы Ельциным в 1991 году, но все равно, находясь в украинской оккупации почти 23 года остались русскими. Украина с 1991 по 2014 год проводила тотальную украинизацию Крыма, заставляла крымчан отказаться от родного русского языка и от своей Родины России. Но Крым дождался исторической справедливости и в 2014 году вернулся домой. Учите историю!
USSR ceased to exist. NATO leaders have never signed any treaty that they would not admit new members. On the other hand Russia SIGNED a treaty that it guarantees borders and independence of of Ukraine.
Putin needs to ask himself why so many ex Waswaw pact countries want to join NATO and EU.
He' a narcissist. That would be impossible for him.
He asked for Russia adhesion too in 2000. He got rejected you can find the reason with Biden interview 97
@@michaelgl8516 DID AZOV TELL YA THAT? OR THE PINKOS?
@@michaelgl8516 ISRAEL NEEDS TO FUND ITS OWN HOLY WAR
Putin needs to ask himself why he wanted NATO to expand eastward right into Russia 2000ish, Bill Clinton saying he had no objection. Putin can't have been very threatened back then about all the "not an inch to the east" stuff....
Putin at one time considered joining NATO
That was just a Political Stunt he did so that people would view him as a "Nice Guy" who originally wants peace.
He didn’t consider it, but offered it, but he was refused. And SUDDENLY, Khrushchev also wanted to join NATO, but he was also refused.
And the USSR also proposed to dissolve the Warsaw Pact bloc and NATO at the same time, in order to defuse the military-political situation and prove that we are not enemies.
But for some reason, they refused every time. How did this happen? Maybe the point is that NATO is not a defensive alliance, but an attacking alliance AGAINST RUSSIA?
It doesn’t matter what our country is called, who the ruler is or what kind of regime we have, NATO is always against us, no matter what we do.
Russia wanted to join NATO themselves in 1991. Putin also tried to negotiate later, but they also refused to satisfy conditions of NATO.
I get those westerners want to understand what is inside of Putin's and russians heads, but there is pure imperialism. They occupy ex-USSR territories just because they feel entitled to it. For them, the Victory day is celebration, holiday, they scream on streets "We can repeat it", they dress up their toodlers in military uniform.
DW, stop looking for some reasons of starting the war. Sometimes, it can be that simple, Russia wants to expand colonies and execute genocides, so the territories never demand independance again.
As a person, whove spent 1/2 of my life in Ukraine, 1/4 in Germany and 1/4 in Russia I'm very thankful to you for this video.
We need more videos about facts to oppose the manipulations in the official media and unofficial "rumor" channels (on both sides).
Which official media
@@Chinaziland the corporate ran state media like cnn msm and even fox. abc nbc reports the same cia talking points. There is a lot of evidence on it. Watch the latest videos from Jimmy Dore and George Galloway even if you disagree with them because you guys have opposing perceptions. They are honest and have good evidence to back it up
@@Chinaziland DW is funded by from the German budget.
DW news is LYING by OMMISSION , as most lying news agencies do.
What did they leave out ?
(1) Putin was very friendly to NATO and after the dissolution of the USSR and Germany's entrance into NATO, Putin asked to join NATO , which would have been great for world peace and end global competition between NATO and it's historic enemies Russia and Germany.
(2) NATO refused !
So DW forgot to tell you, that peace was an option and that Putin was the main sensible and rational person.
DW forgot to tell you that the Conflict between NATO and Russia is as a consequence of NATO's denial of Russia to join NATO after the allowed Germany.
Don't you think that this is a VERY IMPORTANT thing that should not be left out of this video ?
---- > Ukraine and o ther former Soviet satellites were to remain neutral; that would mean no westward expansion by Russia as well. No eastward expansion was negated by Russia's invasions of Chechnya, Georgia, and Crimea. Not only has Putin put its military in Belarius, it had its Constitution modified to allow nuclear weapons.. So, Russia has nukes in Belarius.
It was a conversation, not a treaty. Russia’s poor treatment of it’s neighbors is the main reason why nations want to join NATO.
yes, russia is its own worst enemy. particularly under the leadership of the psychopathic war criminal
Right? Look what happened to Ukraine, they didnt join NATO and got invaded.
Not to the mention the NATO-Russia founding act allowed for the unlimited expansion of NATO and is actually singed by Russia
@@myviews9369 Ukraine signed a written treaty with Russia in 1997. It was Russia who did not honor the agreement in 2014 in their annexation of Crimea. Saying they are not a country is simply not true.
@@myviews9369 None of this happened except in the minds of paranoid and psychopathic Russian politicians. The Budapest Memorandum, an agreement made between Ukraine, Russia, the United States and the United Kingdom in 1994 was another agreement not honored by Russia. Get your facts straight.
It was always Russia that caused the expansion of NATO and the self determination of those independent countries that chose to join is what made it happen. Russia has no reasonable grievance.
Obviously the so-called no east extension did mean to only Germany, that is NATO troops would not be deployed to east Germany, because the other countries were not even in the scope.
There is one big difference between NATO and Warsaw pact, NATO nation's applied to became members of the alliance, Warsaw pact was forced by Russia, can't think of one country that joined warzaw pact voluntary, they were either occupied or threatened.
Excellent point!
That is irrelevant. Promises were made in order to agree on the dismantling of the ussr. Those promises were broken five times, Russian complains were ignored. After all, what could a bankrupted state do ? Turns out : a lot.
incorrect, we were not occupied but ''liberated'' from nato by ussr in 1968 😁
.... and remember that the Warsaw Pact melted along with the death of the Soviet Union. Today there is nothing called Warsaw Pact!
@@yves3560 An agreement with the Soviet Union carries little weight when that government collapsed and the dictator who took over what followed ignores their treaties and invades neighbors like Chechnya and Georgia. Putin may want to revive the Soviet Union, but he doesn't have the power to subjugate squat. The most he can do is bomb civilians, take heavy losses and destroy Russia's economy.
What do you do when you tell a nation that they are sovereign and can choose their own course? They look at the governmental organization preferred by NATO - representative democracy - and they say ''we want that". Then they make a strong application for membership. What happens then?
Then you wonder 'what if the Warsaw Pact had survived and Germany had petitioned for membership'? Would Russia have vetoed the petition, or would they have welcomed Germany in with open arms?
The United States is not behind the strong push for NATO membership among these former Soviet ''client states". The people want it. They think they NEED it. This Russian war against Ukraine only makes them certain of it.
Well, it is not up to people to decide if their country will join NATO. Russia didn’t get promises from their countries - promises where given by NATO. So it is up to NATO to decide if they want to keep the promise or not - by taking in this countries.
@@russellf.3396
It is up to people to decide if they will apply to NATO.
@@russellf.3396 you're totally missing the point, NATO was no imposing threat to Russia. Members of NATO, most of European countries were trading with Russia and creating more economical dependencies despite Putin's wrong doings in Georgia, Crimea, backing Lukashenko regim after lost election, and finally his undemocratic and repressive action towards Russian people. Western countries didn't wanted confrontation they wanted to trade. Some believed that close trading ties will guarantee the peace but Putin has his own vision of imperial Russia and now we have a war. NATO is just an excuse btw Ukraine in past (after Crimea annexation) asked to join NATO and it was refused. So really Russia has no leg to stand on.
If NATO accepted Ukraine as a member this might not happened caused Putin might think twice before invading Ukraine…
N.A.T.O. is a force for good in the world!
Did Russia promise not to expand 1 inch toward the west.
Pause @3:04 and read the paragraph for yourself. It is not phrased as a fact but as a mention that it ‘would be important’. This is not a guarantee at all !
The other two sources don’t contain any guarantees either.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but those assurances "not another inch to the East" were given in February 1990 to the SOVIET UNION - a DIFFERENT legal and political entity to Russia. The Soviet Union dissolved in December 1991, and all promises made to it, even all treaties (which this wasn't) dissolved with it.
Russia is a DIFFERENT entity from the Soviet Union, and nobody made any such promises to RUSSIA!
By your logic, then why SHOULD Putin respect the 1994 treaty? It was signed under Yeltsin, not him.
Putin obviously didn't feel bound by any supposed assurances from NATO to a non existent soviet union either. He discussed the possibility of Russia joining NATO in the early 2000s with Clinton.
Aren't you a smart one?
Russia is a legal successor of USSR. The agreement about it was signed by soviet republics.
@@tanyam5471 So Putin was breaking this supposed agreement not to expand NATO when he discussed the possibility of Russia joining NATO with Clinton in the early 2000s was he?
It just breaks my heart into pieces SO painfully that my country is treated like some kind of marble in a game. WE ARE PEOPLE TOO!
Marble in Russian game. If independent countries wanted to join Nato, it's their business. Not Russia's business.
What country is that?
Ukraine was cheated by the Budapest memorandum. Maybe there is more
credibility with nukes.
@@alaric_ Libya Iraq were invaded by NATO brethren for cheap supply of oil.
@@alaric_ You dont know how geo politics and security works.
Argument is simple: membership in NATO was voluntary (except West Germany) Warsaw Pact - not so...
also , didn't Putin say he wasnt going to invade Ukraine at the start of the war...... yeah ok,....
“But he didn’t talk about it 20 years ago” - he talked about it at least 14 years ago, in his famous Munich speech. He had kept talking about it repeatedly since then, but the West chose to ignore him
Yea, and the west thinks that politics works the same way the legal system works. Just because the US could twist the definition or events to suit their needs, doesn’t mean they’re true.
And people thing it his fault
True!! This has been his narrative since.
@@chupapi9821 Of course its his fault. Ukraine is free to Join Russia, or free to Join NATO. But forcing your neighbors into submission is never justified.
@@alexandrostheodorou8387 no trouble. I hope you don't complain when Mexico forms an alliance and receives military support from North Korea.
The bottom line is whether countries are able to determine for themselves their strategic, political and economic alliances. If not they are not independence countries, but puppet states.
Ukraine itself was fully self sustaining. The system was very pretty, but it was better then what Putin had for it and they declared independence themselves
true , thats why russia acted for its own self interest , to keep USA away . your statement can be said for russia to
, But no one is threatening Russia. FOR YEARS, the US and EU did everything to integrate Russia into the western economic system. Accession to the G7, admission in the WTO, and joint military exercises between NATO and Russia, Europe became totally dependent on Russian gas imports. What is really happening is that the Russian govt wants to maintain an obsolete centralized autocratic structure that runs the country like a mafia, serving elites in the govt and keeping the regions begging for handouts from Moscow, despite having massive oil and gas revenues. The russian govt sees the EU style of government with accountability and sharing of power as a severe threat to their corrupt business.
Lithuania Estonia Poland, Latvia, Romania are part of nato but they never felt being puppet,, they are secured because there's organization they could rely when an evil want to terrorize them
Are you saying that right now, Ukraine is in the process of showing NATO that they're able?
What about the Budapest Memorandum? Not worth the paper its WRITTEN ON?
There's always a lot of talk. The contract is in the written agreement. The rule of law is the basis of civilized world.
1. Bro at that time they were not talking about other countries from the eastern block , the expansion was in to eastern Germany , what NATO extension east are you talking about when Warsaw Pact was still alive ? This is complete nonsense. I understand if those promises would have been made after the dissolution of Warsaw pact and even so …
2. Any agreement with legal implications should be only in writing, signed with witnesses and ratified from time to time to keep it relevant. Any verbal promises at the dinner table from politicians who had no authority of making such buddy buddy promises are hilarious. US or any other NATO member if had an issue with expansion could have veto it in a heartbeat. I don’t believe for a second that Soviet or Russians who never had issues breaking treaties they signed, were so naive or gullible to take some words as legally binding.. They would have pushed a paper and pen in front of that person in a second. Give me a break, this is laughable
Exactly. Besides Nato expansion is not a reason for Putin to invade Ukraine. It is an excuse to justify Putin's sick idea to annex Ukraine. He wants Ukraine and he could invade non Nato neighbours only.
I can honestly see how Russia would not want NATO expanding closer to its border. Doesn’t give them the right to invade a sovereign country though.
Same thing happened in cuba -america with vise versa situation
Just stop influencing , provoking , and live in peace
@@rediettadesse2828 ...except it's not. Russia can't invade US from Cuba.
Russia can invade the rest of Europe.
@@rediettadesse2828 Sorry, if russia was a better neighbor, maybe these nations would not have wanted to join NATO in the first place...but constantly implying that these nations should not be free, makes them highly suspicious of russia.
Same goes for the russian view of history...while russia claims to have "liberated" Poland and the baltics...these nations wholeheartedly disagree...
@@rediettadesse2828 Then Russia should stop bullying her neighbours, stop interfering in their internal matters. Realise that USSR is over and she has no right over these states.
@@rediettadesse2828 while I am inclined to agree, NATO isn’t attempting to wage war with Russia. It’s not NATO’s fault former Warsaw Pact countries choose to join NATO. Given how Soviet Russia treated its neighbors, such as Hungary, it’s no surprise Eastern Europe massively distrusts Russia. That isn’t to say the US is entirely benevolent, but it’s more so an issue of choosing the more benevolent of two superpowers. Unfortunately for Russia, they’ve not done much to inspire trust in its former Soviet allies.
Why are we all discussing whether the Ukrainians can be allowed to decide on their own, who they want to be closer to? Are they not entitled to their own free decisions?
A short man who has a nice house in Gelendzhik thinks they do not.
Exactly. Putin's dilemma with Ukraine is marry me or I kill you. And the saddest part is that Russia doesn't need anything from Ukraine(neither Crimea nor Donbas). And even less this war ...
So yeah it's a schoolyard buddy who bullies a specific kid for money(who doesn't have it).
Following that logic, I could make my house my own country. I'm sure my government would allow that.
After watching this video? No. Ukraine needs to remain neutral. Build a true democratic country. Given the internal mess of Ukraine, difficult. US has been meddling for a long time. Zelenskyy is doing more harm than good.
I was Boeing's representative to Central Europe from 1990 to 1998. I set up airlines in the region. The reality was Moscow was desperate for cash. They did everything they could to make themselves look like a good investment. Moscow would have never asked for guarantees in this cash-strapped environment. The former Soviet Block countries were in shambles. The US and western Europe were reluctant to make investments in the region. There is absolutely no possibility that Russia asked for guarantees against NATO expansion. In fact, at one point Russia asked to become part of NATO. The repression and death under Soviet occupation were horrendous. As time progressed, the former Soviet Block approached NATO for protection against future Russian aggression. Simultaneously, they approached the EU to gain access to cash. There were no promises! It was an inevitable evolution.
this piece fails to mention the Budapest Protocol. Ukraine was once the 3rd largest nuclear power in the world. They gave their weapons to Russia in exchange for a guarantee of territorial integrity. Russia has failed to abide by this agreement.
Correction: The map shows Ireland as part of NATO. Ireland is a neutral country like Finland and Sweden and Switzerland.
Switzerland is no longer neutral.
Many people here are dumb. They can't understand "military" neutrality.
@F A "One day this COULD be accurate?" That's not really what I expect (or what any of us should accept) from an established and respected news source. Honestly.
Zelensky feels like world boss.. he ask everyone to follow his order...
Not anymore coming soon !
The notion on NATO 'expansion' is ridiculous. I'm from a Baltic country, and we were desperate to join NATO. There was no 'expansion' because NATO didn't even want us! They tried to convince us that Russia is no longer a threat, to which we replied that if it's not a threat then there's no danger of accepting us, is there? This negotiation went back and forth for many many years and it took careful diplomacy, patience and lots of preparation to convice NATO to finally accept us. There were many then and are many now that say we should not have been accepted in the first place. Russia's inferiority complex and its excuse of feeling 'threatened' for no reason is its own problem.
Russia pledged to allow free elections in Eastern European Countries after WW2. Why are you so obsessed about broken promises we made to them, but are completely oblivious to promises they made and broke in the past related to the very same countries?
Besides, NATO was not imposed on Eastern Europe, they chose to join it and voted for it in a referendums. Why should they be concerned about decisions made for them years before? Sovereign countries should be allowed to decide their own path. Making deals with totalitarian states and deciding fate of other nations with them is an old song of neo-colonialism and thank god it was scrapped.
Very well, Putin will put missiles in Cuba then.
there was only one referendum in eastern europe on the matter of NATO. In Hungary in 1998. All the other countries did not conduct referendums.
Does not matter, each country that has joined NATO was their choice. They voted for it. Russia doesn't get a say what these countries do.
Does not matter, Gorbachev and Russia was betrayed by NATO an the trust is gone. Why should Putin allow american nuclear weapons minutes away from Moscow? If its only for defense, then why shouldnt Russia be allowed to have, just for defense, russian nuclear weapons at american borders? Just to balance out the power?
NATO is a militarily alliance not an economic one. Ukraine and Russia history goes way back. Any country will not allow its neighbour to be part of military alliance. Will US allow Canada or Mexico to be part of military alliance against it ?
@@WorldCitizen-gz6fn Of course not. So why should Putin allow it, right?
So would the US allow Mexico to enter a military alliance with Russia and let Russia put troops and missiles in Mexico?
Answer is no
Therefore they're hypocrites
@@VanoArts There are Russian nuclear weapons close to the American borfers
The nation’s who joined nato did so freely ,willingly specifically and determinedly to distance them selves from Russia, given there previous experiences within the old USSR. There self determination cannot be denied and given the recent actions by Russia it seems there decision was wise.
Most of the post-Soviet nations experienced horrible treatment by the USSR, including huge supression and human rights violations. It's not that NATO expanded to the east, but nations were desperate to disconnect from USSR supression and looked for help. Russia can only blame itself for mistreating neighboring nations and not blame NATO.
Looks like he just convinced at least 2 more countries to join. Nice work Vlad.
@@jacqdanieles Also made Chine reconsider relationship with Russia. Putin smart, but he's getting old with he's ways
Well why don't u let cuba reinstate ties with russia and see how America determines its decision.
Learn to spell
Putin never keeps his promise to Ukraine too. So he is going to Hokkaido next since that was "verbally" communicated in WW2. This emo man lives in the past.
yes, my grandfather promised me russia west of the urals.
Russia also broke the Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty when they attacked in 2014
Lithuania or Poland has nothig to do to promises of any foreign authority.
It doesn't make any sense not to make an alliance with a country that supplies most of your oil.
Russia is cheap gas station which can not stand its time of glory is over.
Again, a conversation about the expansion of NATO that completely ignores the opinions of any of the countries involved. A german news company talking to Americans about why Estonia joined NATO and who's interests that served. Here's a novel idea, how about you talk to Estonians?
Estonians have no claim to independence from the USSR nor the other Baltic states. It is clear the Western would cherry picks who gets independence status.
Typical American answer: If it favors me, democracy! if not, the regime must be toppled hahahaha
...wo. Unintelligible gibberish, buddy. Did NATO pledge not to go East, or did it not?
the opinion of those countries didn't matter. when Euromaidan happened, the USA already determined that the Ukranian president should be ousted and even named the next president to office. all of this was determined before the Ukranian electorate hit the ballot box. things can be arranged.
the USA was also aware that the EU was against this. the US official's comment was "f&*% the EU".
Because the Estonians voted on the matter. Ask an Estonian then; their opinions matter but I have a feeling it will be NATO favored these days.. historical polling suggests that. This is a German news channel, no surprise its them interviewing people. ?
Well, Russia signed security guarantees for Ukraine in exchange for Ukrainian nuclear disarmament after the collapse of the USSR. Obviously those "guarantees" werent kept were they?
So, who is the first breaker?
After Ukrainian President literaly stated that the want to get the weapons back.
Those Guarantees are moot since Ukraine embraced NATO which is many inches to the east of Germany... Russia has a legitimate beef with NATO post Cold War.
Exactly!
how many promises did russia keep?
russia has itself sought NATO membership on at least two occasions!
You forgot something really important - there was a chance for Russia to join NATO in the future. But Russia does not want to be just a member of military alliance - that's not Russia's ambition. Russia wants to rule other countries. And Russia already made serious war crimes long time ago, when Putin just came to power as a prime minister - anybody remember the war in Chechnya? The West ignored that. And later the West ignored Russia's agression on Georgia. And later almost ignored the annexation of Crimea. There was even no serious sanctions for shooting down a passenger plane!
The war in Ukraine could never happen if only western politicians on time reacted strongly to Putin's previous crimes.
First off, I don't like how this argument treats Eastern Europe like a non-entity. The total population of Eastern Europe, by which I mean the two rows of European nations bordering the former Soviet Union and current day Russia, is just as large as Russia's. They aren't any less important. Who are Russia and the US to make those permanent decisions for them? Second, this isn't really about NATO expansion anyway, that's just a distraction. Nothing that happens in Ukraine will change NATO being on Russia's border in the Baltics, or the US being right on top of Russia in the Bering Strait. This is about the Ukrainian people voting out a corrupt pro-Russian government, and Putin knowing that once Ukraine joins either the EU or NATO, they'll no longer being able to twist Ukraine's arm and put a pro-Russian government in place. Invading and conquering is the only way that can happen. And third, it would be easy to sidestep the non-written, unofficial NATO agreement anyway. Eastern Europe could just form a second layer defensive alliance and invite Ukraine to that. Then if Russia invades Ukraine, the rest of Eastern Europe can help and attack from within their borders. If Russia crosses those borders, they activate the rest of NATO. If they don't, they're at a huge disadvantage and will lose, because they'll never be able to get near parts of western Ukraine. So all this NATO expansion talk is just to confuse people, and try to turn it back into Russia vs the US, and pretend like what Eastern Europe wants doesn't matter.
Yep, every eastern European and especially Ukrainians that I've talked to always stated that life under leaders like Putin was brutal and oppressive.
People have to remember that most of Eastern Europe was constantly conquered and subjugated to a point where there was hardly a time these nations remained independent, but they were some of the fiercest fighters to achieve their independence.
Your argument contains the fact that the US and Russia make decisions for Eastern Europe. What does it mean then to say that they "aren't any less important"? If we follow your line of thought here, they should be "important", but they are not. So we may ask, if you insist on this notion of importance--why should they be "important" and why are they not? NATO and the EU are not democracies--such that the population size of Eastern Europe has no bearing on politics. The region is not a united political entity, so it is not a military threat to America, the EU, or Russia. So, geopolitically, Eastern Europe has formed a buffer between Europe and Russia. Demanding otherwise is like asking why Poland is a poor country and not a rich one--or rather like demanding that Poland be wealthier than Britain because it ought to be. We might agree that this should be the case, but it is not. So what exactly are you talking about? It sounds like Eastern European countries need NATO, need America and the EU, because they provide military support--this is who you are appealing to when you say that these nations ought to be important: important enough to America and the EU to protect against Russia. Thus it is inherent in your own argument that these countries are not "important"--if they were, they would be autonomously deterring the EU, America, and Russia, and your point would be moot as they would need no help "deciding" how their geopolitical situation should be. It would be nice, for example, for Iraq to have decided that America ought not to have successfully invaded it--but alas, we can't just have what we want.
@@laserprawn Eastern Europe has always been stuck between great powers, Russia was just the latest even after the fall of the Soviet Union.
Literally every former Warsaw Pact member choose to be in NATO, they were not forced.
@@peterbarca8783 Literally every ex-Warsaw Pact country has a small military budget because their security is subsidized by America--why would you need to force them to join?
Forgive me but i don't see how the US has "made any decisions for" Eastern European peoples. NATO membership is something that is requested, applied for, and democratically ratified by a nation.
That's not comparable to Russia's treatment of the nations of Eastern Europe.
You seem to need to inform yourself of the historical facts much more carefully
Ukraine gave up their nuclear missiles on agreement with Russia for non aggression. So Russia can't bleat about old agreements - that are fictitional anyway!
Russia agreed fornon aggresion...but ukraine did not respect the MINSK AGRREMENT and was killing russian speaking people in the donbass area for 8 years...that is why the agreement did not stand in place anymore.
@@renemolina2645 Hahaha... you fell for the Russian KGB lies. That's in their playbook. It's the same lie they used to invade Georgia. There are so many Russians in Ukraine because Russia killed of a quarter of the Ukrainian population and sent Russians to settle on the dead Ukrainian's land.
Supposedly all of the nuclear missiles that Ukraine gave up. Belonged to Russia before Ukraine left Russia. So Ukraine didn’t have access to the codes to use the Nukes. So it made sense for them to give them back.
There was no written agreement on nato expansion. It was only talk
Those were Russian missiles Ukraine didn't have access to anyways. Just like Turkey can't wake up and nuke it's neighbors tomorrow because the US missiles are controlled by the US President. It was mostly a formality. Ukraine didn't have the launch codes so they either agree to return them or Russia sends in a military force to recuperate them.
I think 2 nuclear empowered empires with a lot of neutral countries in between as a buffer-zone is a wonderful thing !!!
Russia is not a super power and Eastern Europeans are free people, they are not soviet slaves anymore. Cold war era is over. USSR is gone. Deal with it. Russia has nothing to say. Russia is cheap gas station with pathetic gdp.
The way I see it is that any agreements were made with the USSR. When that was desolved, so were any agreements. In the end individual countries themselves choose to join NATO.
bs smalle talk behind the scene is not an agreement. Russia had no damn right to decide about other country's safety and pact choices.
Mr. Shifrinson failed to mention that Mikhail Gorbachev first proposed Russia joining NATO in 1990.....And Russia is East of NATO.....(He must have missed that class...lol...)
Even Vlad tried to join in his early career
And of course what is never mentioned is that Ukraine asked to be a member of NATO and not the other way around. Poland and Hungary asked for membership hours after getting rid of the Warsaw Pact troops that went back to Russia in 1991. And they waited patiently for it until 1999 .
Proof in Ukraine's case: Both France and Germany vetoed (I repeat VETOED) their candidacy on more than one occasion. One surely can't blame the Yanks for that? Some are playing politics again, claiming to be historians.....
The issue is that this discussion basically erases the will of the peoples of Poland, the Baltic nations, and the rest of Eastern Europe. As if they are condemned to be perpetually subjugated to their Moscow masters. These countries saw a way out and ran for the EU- NATO hills to claim protection from their aggressive paranoid oppressor.
No pro-Russia guy here, but you mentioned paranoia and history shows Russia has alot of room to be paranoid. Since the 1200's Russia has been invaded every single century, from Sweden, Polish-Lithuania, France, Germany, Japan. That is 1 in every 4 generations, sometimes 3, of Russians who have lived through invasions. NATO was designed specifically to be against Russia so in many ways, that "paranoia" is very, very real.
@KP Podcast I take your point. But why would the US push so hard for years to get Russia to be successful and integrated in the western economic system.? Why push to admit it in the G7, in the WTO, why did Europe buy their gas and oil if they dislike them so much? Why coordinate joint exercises and agreements between NATO and Russia? If they don’t like Russia that was a very strange way to demonstrate it, by providing them with hundreds of billions of USD every year in revenue for 3 decades….
@@kppodcast5698 Your talking about a past that doesn't exist anymore. I don't know of a single country that wants to invade Russia except China ,if it could .
@@mrparts They tried to change Russia into good neighbour and partner. Something impossible to do. Putin has always been the same pure evil. West was just too naive and did not want to see it.
@@Blanka1100
Putin and the oligarchs are much like the Tsars and their aristocracies.
Gorbachev has said multiple times that the agreement was for non German NATO to not move into Eastern Germany. And that agreement was kept.
It's none of russian='s bussiness, what allience their sovereign neighbours join whatsoever.
Ukraine is a sovereign democratic country and can make its own decisions - THE END
Unfortunately, bloody tyrant from Moskow Kremlin and his bloody government doesn't think like you... -_-
And they’ll get nuked. THE END. Thanks for that dumb non-contribution to this discussion.
Guess yo missed there was a coup in 2013 orquestraded by the ones the try to solve the world and impose a democracy like in Afghanistan , and they helped to dethrone his democratic president back then to put in charge a puppet they could handle.
The playbook is always the same, they are experts on that matter.
Is Mexico a "sovereign democratic country"? Was Cuba a "sovereign democratic country"? Western exceptionalism knows no limits.
@@ericjsmoczynski4374 You know about dumb better than anyone...
To understand Russia's lie about NATO expansion... in 2014 Mikhail Gorbachev gave an interview to "Russia Beyond" a Russian state-owned news agency RIA Novosti... in the interview he was asked why he had not sought a document to legally encode what Baker had said about not moving “one inch further east.”... Gorbachev explained that the Baker remark was being taken out of context and replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all.” and later in the interview he clarified what the actual context was... “Making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR [German Democratic Republic] after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context.” ... There was NO promise NATO wouldn't expand to other nations, there was an agreement that NATO forces wouldn't move an inch into East Germany and build bases after Russia allowed Germany to unite.
@Manas Kumar If it's not obvious by now how important NATO is IDK what else would convince anyone. Besides NATO shifted into an economic and political improvment alliance which has done wonders for crumbling ex warsaw pact states.
Remember, NATO isn't like the old Warsaw pact which truely did expand like a cancer through the use of tanks rolling into capitols. NATO doesn't "expand." It BUILDS. It builds through VOLUNTARY association. That makes it bigger for sure.
The other thing your'e woefully missing is the massive ongoing (prior to now) draw down in troops under NATO command, and the (prior to current events) lack of deployment of miltary forces to the Eastern flanks. It was it's weakness that encouraged this, not it's strength.
Russia isn't threatened by NATO. That's a pretext. Putin is threatened by the political systems that occur when a country is capable of being a NATO member. He's deathy affraid of that sytem, not NATO's expansion.
@Manas Kumar I think you dont' undestand the Cuban missile crisis either. Those weren't just Missiles. Those were NUCLEAR weapons in Cuba. Cuba and Russia have always been in an a miltary/political alliance. That's not the problem. Nor a problem w/ conventional arms going to Cuba.
You know what was never contemplated (until now)? Nukes in eastern nato bases. Really much of any sigifigant miltary in the east... There was never any danger ot Russia from that. In fact, due to treaty, they know where every last US Nuke ICBM is located down to the serial number, and we know the same (or are supposed to) about theirs.
This is about an old man who realizes his Tsaritst dreams will dissapear if he doesn't do something now. And due to internal pre-existing Russian dynamics, he's freaked out about his own power and legacy (which are now smashed).
It's not a lie. The NWO wants Russia, that's why we have this war.
@@extraordinarywolf320 Q Anon wants you!
Russia lies. It has always lied. Its in it's governmental historical DNA. It's not a byproduct of anything done to them by the west.
And if you're not old enough to remember these things just re-look up the Kremlin approved STASI Operation Denver/Invektion. It's now being recycled iwth a Ukraine twist. The CCP picked up on two years ago it because it featured Ft Detrick being accused of developing AIDS and decided that made for a good story.
Remember 1/2 of Russians (by survey) still believe the US never landed on the moon.. and that's due to Russian media lies.
Gorbachev is USA agent who kill millions of russians.
It doesn´t seem Putin cares what the countries of the former USSR want - which is, in most cases, to be disentangled from Russia
Interesting but of little value. You have "stated" that what matters is what the US and USSR want or "agree" all other smaller states are and should be merely pauns.
I can't overstate how that position is wrong.
A despot will use whatever excuse seems legitimate to make their argument seem sound. What can you do, a warmonger's gonna war. These are the EXACT same tactics as in Georgia, Putin just decided not to stop this time.
But Georgia is so much smaller than Ukraine. I can understand Putin not wanting to let go of such a sizeable prize, not to mention the rich farmlands & minerals. It was literally the best part of Russia.
James Baker did in FEB 1990, stenograms are a living proof. Not an inch eastwards.
Besides: 🇺🇦🇺🇦 Ukraine's Independence declaration of Aug 1991 included non-aligned status and US did not recognize it's Independence until that declaration was put on nation-wide referendum in Dec 1991. (4 months!!! of waiting because oral promise before Moscow had to be approved by a majority of Ukraine's🇺🇦🇺🇦 population in the WRITTEN form).
Be smart, Google it and don't let Media brainwash and fool you.🙄🙄
Your post is a psychological projection. Ukraine and the US/NATO have been the hostile actors if not since 1990, absolutely since 2014.
@@ericjsmoczynski4374 Troll!
@@michaelgl8516 Another psychological projection. The troll is you. Come back when you know a single relevant fact about Russia, politics, or history.
From an objective point of view the question that always struck me was, "Why all those former Soviet countries want to join NATO and EU?" The answer is now extremely obvious!
Just looking at how Putin treats people who opposes his war is enough.
so glad we Slovakia joined in 2004. Had that not happened I'd be shitting my pants down here in my country.
@@falcon55551 Slovakia looks like a great country to visit!
James Baker did in FEB 1990, stenograms are a living proof. Not an inch eastwards.
Besides: 🇺🇦🇺🇦 Ukraine's Independence declaration of Aug 1991 included non-aligned status and US did not recognize it's Independence until that declaration was put on nation-wide referendum in Dec 1991. (4 months!!! of waiting because oral promise before Moscow had to be approved by a majority of Ukraine's🇺🇦🇺🇦 population in the WRITTEN form).
Be smart, Google it and don't let Media brainwash and fool you.🙄
@@falcon55551 My late grandma cried with a tears of joy when Poland joined Nato in 1999. She knew Russia better than people in Western Europe ever will.
It is absurd to claim that a major superpower geo-strategic commitment, such as no NATO expansion, would be made purely by
a couple of conversations. And not even by the POTUS, but by an official. But you're saying this is binding on the USA
in perpetuity? Why wasnt there so much as a signed letter or a signed memorandum like the Budapest
Memorandum (which BTW Russia is now blatantly violating)? And to be binding it would require ratification by the US Congress.
The whole thing is absurd.
Yes he said not one inch further.. but he made that promise to the Soviet Union.. which ended up collapsing.
We made no promise to Russia which is not the Soviet Union.
There was no written agreement, just bs small talk behing the scene. Besides Russia has no damn right to decide about other country's pact choices. Eastern Europeans are free people, they do what is the best for them and they do not have to care about Putin's paranoia and bs excuses. Russia simply loves annexing. Nato is bs excuse only.
If we want to talk about treaties being broken, why not talk about the Budapest treaty of 1994, that was suppose to gurantee Ukraines security by the Russians and the US if it gave up their nukes. Russia always talks about how the West is unfair, but they have proven completely untrustworthy and definet need for NATO still.
The Ukrainian government forfeited its security guarantee when it decided to seek NATO membership.
not to mention that from a legal standpoint crimea seceded legally with a vote, the fact that the west ( and only the west) doesn't recognize it is their problem, same thing in the donbass region, putin didn't recognize them for a reason all these years
My thought exactly! By invading Ukraine, it broke that promise.
Stay safe, stay sane, Stay Strong Ukraine 🇺🇦
💩🍌N🐵A🦍T🐵O🍌💩
LOL😃😃😃LOL.
🍌NEED I SAY MORE.🍌
If that Actor of Ukraine Zelensky would have surrendered to Russia all of this would have been over a long time ago.
🇷🇺🌟🇷🇺 RUSSIA IS GREAT**GLORY TO RUSSIA**GOD GIVE RUSSIA VICTORY.
🇷🇺🌟🇷🇺
@Denise Michelle Mosse You are as racist and xenophobic as Mr, "Lying is in their DNA" James Clapper.
It's not necessary to follow Putins rhetoric. NATO is not moving East. Eastern EU is moving West.
It has no difference for Russia. Russia can act on its own to counter that.
Well put, Shaddy.
Mental gymnastics at its best
No, NATO did not. At least not in any contract.
as judge Judy would say: if its not in the contract, it DOESNT EXIST
Changed our minds a long time ago.
Not just one or two, but 14 former Russian allied countries have already left Russian influence in the last two decades.
Estonia (2004)
Latvia (2004)
Lithuania (2004)
Albania (2009)
Bulgaria (2004)
Croatia (2009)
Czech Republic (1999)
Hungary (1999)
Montenegro (2017)
North Macedonia (2020)
Poland (1999)
Romania (2004)
Slovakia (2004)
Slovenia (2004)
Not one of them invaded by NATO. They sought membership and complied with strict requirement. "If all your friends are leaving you, then the problem must be YOU". These eastern countries have decided on what they want to do with their lives. Russia can always try to win them back, why not, but not by threatening and shooting them dead. That's a crime.
Correct
They are all running to join the EU and NATO because of Brussels money it's more economic than defence.
Yeah sure debt trapping countries into joining nato isn't invasive at all
Absolutely, Russia also have signed a document (can't recall the name) agreeing that any country in Europe have the right to decide how to defend itself, including joining alliances.
But it USA, who provoked ukraine against Russia, and making chemical weapon with the aid of USA at ukraine Russia border.
NATO never said they would not expand. Period
If counties can unilaterally pull out signed agreements, it is absurd to assign value to verbal agreements much less conversations retracted during negotiation. An agreement lasts so long as both part have the power of enforcement.
Iran will be surprised by such interpretation. Trump decided to quit Iran deal and just like that - it's gone
@@mityasf yeah and biden gives iran 5 billion dollars for humanitarian use never worrying about the fact iran said they will use the money in irans best intrests. will be really fun to see where the hamas us weapons came from afghanistan or ukraine, either way it futher solidifys the fact that Biden is a monumental failure and thats no surprise to any one he has always been a failure.
Funny to see most commentators here going to great lengths to defend that Bush Sr., James Baker, Gencher and others did not make a no inch pledge, or that the US and its European vassals were not obliged to fulfill its commitment.
It is also interesting how the human species always behaves like a herd and is not ashamed to take the side of the criminal, often untalented, herd leaders. In this case, the presidents of the largest rogue state in the world.
The United Nations Charter asserts the right of countries to ally with other countries of their choice.
And Russia SIGNED that.
There are three treaties or documents Russia signed that asserts the right to form or join alliances. The first was the U.N. Charter. The most recent one being The NATO-Russia Founding Act of 1997.
If anyone has broken their word, it is Russia.
No Ukraine broke the deal not Russia
There a minks agreements that guarantees special treatment for lunask and donesk but Ukraine broke that when they attack those regions.
Try convincing Latin American countries of that. Ever hear of the Monroe Doctrine?
Putin is 100% to blame and I hope he pays it very soon.
@@zagreus8622 yeah what happened to Cuba last time when they join the USSR 😓
Commitments, if any, were made towards the USSR which self-dissolved a few months later. So, is such commitment still valid? and if yes, towards whom? Indeed, it is parts of that very former USSR which did later request to join NATO: Baltic Countries, Ukraine and Georgia. In the case of Georgia, the request was even made by the by then President Shevardnadze, who was USSR's Minister of Foreign Affairs during the negotiations, and Baker's counterpart. Would Russia have any right to interfere with the sovereignty of other former USSR republics, and prevent them from choosing their own alliances? On what grounds?
Ooof, the "Russia != USSR" point didn't even occur to me until recently. I mean, in reality it's a fairly simply link, but in legality, it is not, and in concept, Russia trying to imperialistically establish dominion using promises towards the USSR as a pretext is an antithesis to what the USSR *supposedly* was about.
Correct..
Russia took all the debt of USSR and repaid it alone. So, yes obligations to USSR=obligations to Russia.
Or we better just promise them and break our promises??
USSR ceased to exist. NATO leaders have never signed any treaty that they would not admit new members. On the other hand Russia SIGNED a treaty that it guaranteed borders and independence of of Ukraine.
@Иван Иванович Soviet and Russian mass murders will never be forgotten.
It’s almost like when Russia invades its neighbors constantly, its neighbors started wanting assurances that they wouldn’t be invaded. Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, no one wants to be next. When Russia recognized Chechen independence, then went and invaded and took over in the late 1990s, can you really blame half of Eastern Europe from joining NATO in the following decade? If NATO didn’t add those countries, Russia would’ve reconquered the Baltics a decade ago. The complaint Russia has is that it wasn’t allowed to do that. Russia was a declining imperial power that wanted to restore its empire, and its former colonies no longer wanted to be a part of it. A conversation in the 90s that was never part of a treaty does not bind NATO to not accept those countries.
"...diplomatic commitments carry a lot of water" - so what happened to Ruzzia signing Budapest Memorandum quarantining Ukraine's borders?!
It became totally nulled when 2 events happened.
First off, a coup against a Constitutionally elected President literally funded by the Americans.
Second, the expansion of NATO towards Russia, which is a promise made way before the Budapest Memorandum was violated.
If you break a deal, darling, you can't accuse the other side of breaking it afterwards.
Oh okay that’s why they’re killing innocent women and children. Phew I thought they were evil for a second…
@@myviews9369are you talking about Russia?
@@myviews9369 it's 2022, spam nukes and the result will be the same, the distance doesn't matter lol
🤣🤣🤣
@@tw0million Duh yes evil Russia
The Kremlin should ask itself why all its neighbors are seeking NATO membership. The fundamental problem is that Russia does not respect its neighbors or their rights as sovereign states.
Oh you mean like the other numerous countries that have waged war on Russia over the centuries? Stop killing Russian men and trying to take all the Russian women and then trying to live off of their land rent free and you're not going to have to worry about "defending" yourself.
Exactly Crazylord!
@@LubaB Education prevents stupidity!
Says who? Your media that is brainwashing you? Oh yeah they are all joining NATO because they are so scared of "dictator Putin". Funny then that they all joined NATO long before Putin even became President. People are so braindead it´s not even funny anymore
@@IloveCamels335 sez you
And in the Budapest Memorandum in 1994 (maybe the little KGB Thug Pudding forgot) :
The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994 to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The memorandum was signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, and the United States. The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan.
However, Ukraine did not ratify or approve it in order to remain a neutral country.
Cuba at one point wanted Russia to build its military base and guess what US said? They said we will declare war if Russia come.
it wasn’t a base, you dum b mook. They wanted to build launch pads for ballistic nuclear missiles. BIG difference. read a book
This comment makes little sense. The issue in Cuba was related to the siting of missiles by the USSR at the height of the cold war, not to the building of an army base by Russia.
As was their right to say, Russia could’ve said the same when Eastern European countries joined NATO but they didn’t, because they couldn’t back it up with a real army (still can’t apparently)
@@tw0million god bless your family in Ukraine and in US
NATO is a free club and every nation has its own rights join or leave that club based on their National Interests and Contemporary Geopolitics of Europe. Vladimir Putin can't blame the West for its broken promises but he should ask himself why most Eastern European nations want to join NATO. Traumatic past of Soviet nasty actions in Hungary, the former Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Poland, Baltic States... and recently Russian aggressions in Georgia, now Ukraine,... have made the whole Europe scary of Putin's Russia. Even the peaceful Sweden and Finland are now being threatened. Putin's desire of restoring the Russian Empire is being broken down bitterly.
yes, club, just join and drink tea and eat cookies
@@BocaoZ "free lunch" for Russians.
Sure Cuba was free to chose and now is enternally sanctioned.USA was clear to all, if u dot knee to me, you going to suffer.Its all about democracy.
God people are so brainwashed. It´s hard to even read the comments on this channel. At least other news outlets have a more "awake" viewership. Putin has no desire to restore the ex Soviet Union. Use your heads people.
short version: They said they wouldnt expand but never wrote anything to back it up
it is not NATO who expanded, it is the eastern european countries who asked to join NATO because they were and are afraid of Russia and know what is it to live under them.
@@hurricanemaude795 you mean USA arm twisted them to join NATO.
@@hurricanemaude795 it may be hard to accept, but by joining lands... you expand
@@Sedobreev but expansion of what? A defensive alliance, based on freely applying and joining.
Russian expansion is expansion via the sword.
@@jonson856 What are defensive alliances? You can always attack and still claim to be defensive because it feels dangerous or some minor provocative event leading to border conflict. Will NATO leave Russia alone to make a similar defensive alliance that is slowly creeping toward them?. I believe even America will attack any defensive alliance that might appear on their border
as a german I tend to side with the americans. my grandmother was eternally greatfull for the berlin airlift. america can lie but all governments lie. I cannot imagine what living in east germany was like. I don't have to imagine how behind the times the people of soviet controlled germany were. I helped them enter the 20th century.
Hmmm 🤔 I wonder why Soviets were in Germany
@@babanagrahim5439 what is your point ?
@@fromireland8663 He is blaming the Soviet for not giving great life to east Germany u were lucky to even have a life atleast they didn't make u slaves just as France and UK did after WW1
@@babanagrahim5439 that does not answer my question.
@@babanagrahim5439 Because they attacked / invaded and conquered it, duh.
This whole discussion starts with the false pretense that the current leadership in modern Russia has the same reasons to be concerned about NATO's growth as the original Soviet leadership in 1990.
People are trying to conflate two interpretations of what a country's "security interests" means. The one definition that most people are wrongly attributing to Putin is that Putin is concerned that expanding NATO would put Russia in direct existential danger since NATO might grow so powerful and so close to Russia that they might decide to move nuclear missiles up to Russia's border and then invade Russia. You often hear the concern expressed in false analogies like "how would the US like it if Mexico joined alliances with Russia?" As an aside the actual answer to this is, fine as long as Russia didn't build military bases on the Rio Grande and station nuclear missiles there. And since Ukraine was neither in an actual alliance with Europe and NATO much less having any NATO military presence on Russia's border in Ukraine then this analogy is completely wrong. Likewise it would be insane if Mexico wanted to be allied with Russia but Russia refused and the US still decided to invade and decimate Mexico only because they didn't promise to never join Russia in any alliance.
Putin knows there is a zero percent chance that NATO would ever just invade Russia unprovoked for zero reason other than to conquer Russia. Especially with Russia's stockpile of nuclear missiles. No, when Putin talks about "security interests" he means European influence taking away Russia's unfettered freedom to directly meddle, influence and control the politics and economies of the old Soviet states. It's no coincidence that Russia invaded Ukraine multiple times a handful of years after both Ukraine and Moldova kept electing pro-European Presidents and parliaments after defeating Putin's pro-Russian candidates. Other than Russian puppet Lukashenko's Belarus he saw that NATO or not these remaining last former Soviet states were moving toward Europe and that means no future hope of milking them and getting a cut from these faux democratic republics really run by pro-Russian oligarchs giving Putin a cut of the action. NATO was just the convenient excuse dug up from the old Soviet concerns from the 1980s cold war era.
Well stated! 🙋🏼
Very good points! "...when Putin talks about "security interests" he means European influence taking away Russia's enfettered freedom to directly meddle, influence and control the politics and economies of the old Soviet states."
@@francislim938 You completely missed the entire point of my comment.
Yes, it is just an excuse. Russian leaders/politic has been suppressing/cancelling Ukrainian identity throughout history, long before NATO even existed. This evil mindset has been there all along
@@francislim938 Again missed the entire point of my comment. Putin doesn't care about military alliances as far as weapons systems go or any threat militarily to Russia. They have nukes and know their sovereignty would never be threatened. It has everything to do with NATO blocking Putin from controlling, benefiting and profiting from former Soviet states.
You can't stop countries asking to join NATO it's their sovereign right
Some people still treat Russia like a special need babby or a super power while Russia is anything but.
No they didnt promised anything
What kind of promise anyone can make on the will of other nations?
Its not about other nations.
US is running NATO and they promised they wouldn't accept countries from east of Germany but they did.
(although all countries are east of Germany if you encircle the globe. As they mentioned in video, they didn't say where the east ends)
And NATO seems to be more of a excuse for Russia to attack rather than the main reason.
@@krikukiks "it's not about other nations"???? What are you talking about? Are you suggesting that my country didn't have the right to become a member because Russia said so and someone made "a pinky promise"???
@@marilenaganea6578
NATO should have been dismantled,when USSR collapsed.
@@marilenaganea6578 You have the right to join the group. But the group have no right to accept new members if they don’t want to break their promise.
@@jirachi-wishmaker9242 the Russian danger didn't disappeared when USSR collapsed as proven by
- Chechnya
- Georgia
- Syria
And 24th of February 2022 Ukraine
It doesn't matter. NATO didn't give weapons to North Korea, constantly try to claim other's territory, invade Crimea, or invade Ukraine.
Whatever small issues may nuissance one or the other, the fact that Russia invaded a country and bombed civilian residences, schools, hospitals... is unacceptable. Unless someone shows confirmed evidence that the majority of Ukraine was involved in human trafficing this is unjustifiable.
It doesn't matter. NATO didn't give weapons to North Korea, constantly try to claim other's territory, invade Crimea, or invade Ukraine.
Whatever small issues may nuissance one or the other, the fact that Russia invaded a country and bombed civilian residences, schools, hospitals... is unacceptable. Unless someone shows confirmed evidence that the majority of Ukraine was involved in human trafficing this is unjustifiable.
...bruh what about the middle east?
@@ImNoHeroSCA "middle east?"....bruh our bad..you got us there
Double standard at its best. Did Iraq have WMD? Was Bin Laden in Afghanistan?
So did all the European powers in the name of colonialism and uncle sam did the same in the rest of the world. The rest of the lives(other than European) matter too.
Vietnam 1950s flashback...