Wow, there's just no pleasing Touhou fans anymore. Are you all turning into Pokémon fans here, disliking everything past a certain release? You're all lucky he still makes these games.
It's funny, because almost every new Touhou game have a better music and gameplay than the last. Played the games casually for some years now and i loved every recent games more than the last everytime.
It's the nostalgia effect. Most all Touhou players started a little after the mega-touhou hype that was from PCB to UFO. Everyone remembers playing EoSD first, then IN, PCB, an onward. They embedded into their minds that this is what Touhou is--the very PCB style game. Things obviously have changed a lot from EoSD to UFO, but since that was around when these people started, they percieved all of those changes at once and don't take them into account. Meanwhile, Touhou continues to change as it always has. Backgrounds have gotten more beautiful, music has gotten more realistic, patterns have gotten more intuitive, the art is as terrible as ever, the graphics improve doubly every game, and there's a lot more to new games now than there was before. But it's happening to me too. I don't like the new games as much as the pre-UFO ones. There's a nostalgic quality to them that's mostly all in my head. The new games are great, and they're super fun, but they'll never match EoSD, PCB, IN, SA, UFO, etc. to me (even though, all fan-loving aside EoSD was a pretty terrible game). It happens to anyone who grows with a community or some medium. They pick favorites. People pick favorites on everything--even people. That's what friends are: favorite people. There's no use in being angry at them. They likely don't know why they feel the way they do, and they likely just perceive the new ones as "not as good" and have a "golden era" of Touhou in their minds from when they were most into the games. I was most into the games during the SA era, and it's my favorite game next to SA. Go figure.
i’m glad zun even in 2024 (or 2023 i should say..) still continues the games and if i’m being honest, most of the touhou games satisfied me i dunno why anybody would dislike this game, in fact this game has one of best art and visuals if i’m being honest
surprised about there being a flash bomb thing considering his remarks about being "back to basics", though in terms of getting lives and such, it's definitely true.
You know, almost everyone hated LoLK when it came out. And now, almost everyone loves it! I really like this demo, especially the music (the scoring system and the release system seems too op tho)
The music is quite good. Took a bit to get use to the stage 2 theme due to the beginning sounds, but it sounds nice too after a bit. Score systems pretty crazy, but what the hell, the game's still fun, even if it's easier. :)
Something strange is happening in Touhou thesedays: at least a half of new characters have bare feet in new Touhou games. I don't know why ZUN makes so nowdays, but I think this is something good for those who love bare feet characters. lol
The fact that he releases these demos is good because it does give him a chance to get some feedback and tweak stuff like game mechanics based off user reviews and results. But damn people act like the games already out and ruined when theyve seen the first half of an unfinished game..... Most of this fanbase can hardly even say they understand the games mechanically since 90% dont even play the game never play it well enough to comment on its design. Gordon Ramsay beats the shit out of other chefs who claim to be high class because hes the top of the industry. Jaimers can critique ZUNs work because he's a top tier Bullet Hell player. The other aspects like character design and music are fair game but keep in mind folks, 1. the music serves a gameplay purpose in Touhou as many bullet patterns are synced with the song's beats like a Rhythm game. 2. it is important to remember that game design is an art form and artists need to be allowed to experiment with different stuff. Copying a game that was successful is in reality, a failure because you arent doing something great youre ripping off something youve already done well. I love the changes ZUN has made and the new ideas he brings to the table. Its how a series survives rather than dies and no success is made without stumbles along the way. Letting ZUN do what he wants with his content is the best way to obtain the highest quality content we could hope for from the situation. I found when playing the game that its very visually pleasing but the background can sometimes get in the way of the bullet patterns and create difficult to read areas. The music is good and the designs are neat (it always takes time for the songs and characters to grow on us). I know some people hate exploitable bosses like the safe zones on the butterfly girl but I actually like it. It adds character to the girls through their danmaku which is what Touhou has always been founded on. Its why we fell in love with Cirno. Low level bosses should have exploits to drive home that they are weak. Ditsy characters should make silly mistakes in their danmaku similar to how in ISC the spellcards all showed little twinges of the character's personality whether it be silly or angry, laid-back or intense, comedic or climactic.
I've been seeing quite some aggressive comments directed at ZUN indeed for that "he has gotten shit" at making music, characters etc and it's honestly really upsetting. People seemingly don't have the sacred ability to cool down first and let stuff grow on them, but instead start ranting arbitrarily about how bad he's apparently become and his works are like fanmade. Then, please tell me, dear fandom, which actually came first?! Considering that this happens with every single new game ZUN releases, this phenomenon has become really annoying. I'm fine with people disliking his games, but just blatantly saying "this looks like a fangame" is something I cannot digress from, and it's also extremely disrespectful towards the creator of the *original* franchise. I'm German and I do *love* all the games ZUN's made so far, the HSiFS demo included. I really wish people could be less hot-headed about certain things. It's annoying and can potentially cause unnecessary commotions.
I think the problem is that the fanbase have been spoiled by the very good and high quality fan games that are out there, like Shining Shooting Star, my god that game is just fantastic. And because of this they expect ZUN works to be better than Fan Made stuff since it's the official Touhou games.
That's most likely so. I've played SSS, BoSM and RSS myself and think that these games are absolutely outstanding for being fanmade. This doesn't keep me from being respectful towards ZUN though, he created the *official* and *original* games first after all. I also doubt that ZUN peeks into fanworks, so the high expectations of the fanbase and the resulting tantrums are really arbitrary honestly.
I agree, ZUN is the original creator and as such deserve to be respected as such. Not only that but ZUN has his own style of doing things. Also people are judging a game by a trial that just got released...Seriously? If you are going to judge a game might as well do it when it's fully released. Since this is a trial alot of things can still be changed.
As much as I love Zun and the characters he creates, I really wish we'd see more old characters make an appearance sometimes, like Lily White does here. Maybe just random Rumiaas mid-boss, or hey it's Tewi as a stage 2 boss ! (Though I suppose fairies, rabbits and small youkai are easier to fit into a new story than goddesses and queens and whatnot.) Can't convince me those troublesome youkai just cause one incident and call it a day forever, at least the Moriya shrine's known for brewing trouble.
It appears that the HSiFS demo is even more controversial than LoLK's full release, goddamn. "Shit" stages, "shit" music, "shit" patterns VS "shit" final boss, of which I all like honestly. I actually see a lot of potential with this game's system, especially the shottype combinations, allowing the use of a vast amount of different playing strategies. Music and characters grew warmer after a couple of hours of grinding the mechanics, the stages are actually really atmospheric, and that's what makes ZUN's games so unique in comparison to even the higher quality fangames. Speaking of which, please stop saying "this looks like a fangame" on ZUN's games. Think about it, which of them actually even came first?! It's just utter disrespect towards him.
That's actually pretty annoying, especially if their "critiques" are completely based on opinions with almost zero trace of objectivity. Disliking and being critical is absolutely okay, what really bothers me with some people around here is their lack of ability to pay respect.
I think I was overreacting a little bit, so my apologies for that. It's alright. Lord Sithis, I partially take back what I said. My statement mostly revolved around that people saying that ZUN's latest games start to look like fangames, which I think is disrespectful towards ZUN because he is the creator of the original and official Touhou franchise whereas fanworks such as MPP, RSS, BoSM or SSS are all inspired thereof. I've played these games myself and I think they do surpass some of ZUN's works in terms of pattern design and art quality. Now, that doesn't mean that I'd be saying ZUN's works, no matter how mediocre or average they would be from an objective standpoint (say game mechanics and the implementation thereof, stage design, the bosses' pattern designs, visual quality) start to look like fanworks, because that frankly means discarding ZUN as Touhou's actual creator and giving that credit to the fangame developers instead. Speaking of which, of course they deserve respect too for the trouble they through to complete their works, but the credit for the original concept would still need to go to ZUN. As for the criticism, I know that there are flaws in the game and I would not just brush them aside, because frankly that's not what I meant to say. Please go ahead.
I like this demo as well, but holy shit, the scoring... just what. It's literally the most absurd scoring system I've ever seen in a Touhou game. Flashbomb releases for survival also seem quite powerful. The resources seem pretty fine for no-bomb no-release play though.
Yes the scoring is absurd, i've seen a video where the score went all the way over 500 million...in just 3 stages, i recon the scores will go well over 1 billion with the full game. It's nuts. Also the flash bombs are really strong as well, Spring is mostly for survival but Winter oh dear god, use that thing at point blank on a boss and watch their HP melt. Autumn is clearly made for scoring and i don't remember what Summer does..
If maximum PIV isn't 500k (more than 400k in the video you mentioned - I watched it too), the score will go over 3 billion as it grows much faster than linear
Thx, hope it'll get changed in the full release. Or maybe it was intended to be that way so that people stop spamming flash bombs and do something else...I wonder
So many people dislike every new release ZUN gives out, whether it be CDs or games. To be honest, nobody's forcing you to interact with his works, and in most cases ZUN doesn't get money from you because you don't purchase his stuff legally, so I don't think it's right that some of you guys openly complain at everything ZUN does for the sake of complaining. Saying something is shitty won't make it better, so why are some of you guys so adamant on saying it? If you hate modern Touhou that much, just stop playing it -- it wouldn't make any difference to ZUN anyway.
I'm not a very big fan of this demo but the flaws the people are mentioning here can literally be applied to some of the older Touhou games. And the safespot and streaming complaints are two of the best examples of my statement.
I literally cant play bullet hell games because whenever I try to focus on just my character or something, the bullets get too distracting and I get confused. ;_; I wish I could, because they look fun, but I'm shit even at the easiest level. :
Cirno would be the PERFECT boss for stage 4, given that it is presumably the winter stage... sadly, it's not going to happen since she is a playable character... UNLESS ZUN splits Stage 4 into two version with different bosses depending on the character, like he did in IN.
Yeah. If the same thing in IN happens, this type of fight might be the outcome for stage 4: Reimu vs Marisa Marisa vs Reimu Cirno vs Marisa Aya vs Reimu
Actually, what I've been thinking is: Reimu vs Cirno Cirno vs Marisa(Reimu?) Marisa vs Cirno Aya vs Marisa(Reimu?) So that you can either play as or fight against Cirno in that stage.
No, it depends on which character you use. If you play as Reimu/Yukari or Youmu/Yuyuko, you will fight Marisa, and if you play as Marisa/Alice or Remilia/Sakuya, you will fight Reimu.
Is it me or do some of the attacks that the 3rd boss have seem quite synonymous to some of Keine and Shou's attacks? Putting that aside, it seems like ZUN showed mercy on us after the "masochistic" LoLK. I'm not a big fan of some of the music but I'm still prepared for hypes. Also, how do you use the thing called "releases". Lastly, the scoring is quite confusing for me. How do you get extra lives?
You release your "options" by tapping the c button, like trance in th13. Cancelling bullets with it is your only way to get PIV (point item value). And you get lives through hitting a specific score-milestone.
+Lord Sithis The game feels like a "toned-down" version of LoLK with a hint of TD. I downloaded the trial already and so far, I find it to be one of the easier games. And about the scoring, I honestly find it to still be better than that of TD. Trance system can be confusing af. Also, scoring ain't really my priority in the games. My main priority is being able to finish it.
+Lord Sithis Considering that you need to earn a specific amount of score to earn an extra life, yes. But even so. I'd rather just auto collect the items at the top of the screen if I want to earn the points (I just learned this after playing it). In fact, when I play Touhou, I don't really give too much emphasis on how a certain game differs from the other one (e.g. Trance System in TD or Faith System in MoF) unless it is vital when earning extra lives and bombs in the game. Anyways, I only wish that ZUN would be able to appeal players once the full game is released. Knowing how many people criticized LoLK (which is actually my 3rd favorite 2hu), I'm sure he won't be releasing another "Junko" for the moment.
honestly, the only gripe i have with this game is the fact that releases deal damage. not saying that is the only flaw. there are others but i could look past them and still have fun with this game. but the releases feel a lot like actual bombs, because of how much damage potential they have. Spring is pretty much Evil-Sealing Circle 2, and the other releases feel like a variation of MarisaB bomb in DDC. they can dispell boss patterns in less than 5 seconds, you just have to fly up to the boss and use a release near them. if they didnt do damage, it would a bit more challenging and manageable up until now though, touhou 16 is the game with the most adjustable difficulty and, even if thats not a lot, because touhou isnt that hardcore, i still think its a plus on this game
From a scoring perspective though, the fact that they do damage means that there is at least a modicum of thinking when routing score, as you can't just rush up and flashbomb their faces, as then you'll only end up getting a couple rounds of bullets this way. It's still weird to have flashbombs in an official release, but considering Trance in 13, I can deal. Summer's flash is absolutely retarded in terms of survival, though. Come into a boss with level 6 sub, surely you can NMNB at least, since it only takes 1 level instead of all available like the others. Sure, it's shorter, but it means you can cheese through walls and make streaming much easier. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the full release, because while there might be slight tweaks to certain things, there's not going to be too much of a change between demo and full if past releases are anything to go by. Unless ZUN looks around for more criticism than usual, the only real thing that'll probably be tweaked are a few patterns and maybe the damage output of certain shots/subs. So far I'm either way on this demo right now - Character designs and boss themes? Sure, I'm down. Stage themes? Yeah, they're pretty good. Stage design? Eh, could be better. Spellcards? Mmmmeh, personally. "We'll see" seems to be my ultimate opinion right now.
I don't even play Touhou and I've got one heck of an inferiority complex right now. Seriously what the hell was that? How? and Why? but mostly How? Are human eyes suppose to register what's going on in that screen?
All these rants about the demo lol just imagine when the full ver is released and stages 4-6 & extra become what y'all call Touhou worthy. And don't forget Zun laughing when it happens.
My answer to this comments section: 1. Most of you are playing a game that you don't even pay for. The fact that a good number of you people only pirate his games means he can't even get money from you. In short, you're talking shit about a game that you don't even pay with legal money. And don't tell me stuff like "ZUN doesn't care about western fans pirating his games since it can be really hard to ship them". That's BS. Even though he doesn't care, the fact that you don't pay for it means you have very little right to complain. It's kinda like throwing a tantrum about a present that you didn't like that your parents or relatives gave you during your birthday or last Christmas. Sure, you can point out parts of the game that you think it doesn't do well at, but spewing hate about it when you don't even pay for it only makes you look like a spoiled brat. I myself pirate his games too. But at least I don't act like a complete jerkface to his games with every single little flaw. 2. Your "objective" complaints about this game were all *subjective* af. If you don't like the game then that's your problem. No one's forcing you to find it fun. But you don't DARE CLAIM that what you said were "objective" because not everyone sees your complaints as complaints. Broken scoring? Ok now that can be considered objective. But saying things like "the gameplay sucks" or "the stages and bosses are boring" are COMPLETELY *subjective*. Why? Because there are people (including me) who actually think this game is fun. It only becomes objective if EVERYONE acknowledges it. But not everyone does. 3. Lastly, Stop saying stuff like "It's criticism! You need to criticize ZUN for things he does wrong instead of blindly defending his works". It has nothing to do with blindly defending ZUN nor any other likely story. We just don't see the games the same way you do. That's basically it. Like I said, if you don't like it then that's your problem. But saying your statements were "objective" aren't objective at all.
Quite funny how some criticisms sound fair and respectable while some sound insufferable (to me of course). The latter is true for the criticisms directed at this game. Oh well guess we can't please every one huh?
Nguyễn Đức Trọng Yes, but the fact that most people don't even pay for it means they have very little right to complain. If they actually buy it with real money then fine, rant about it for all I care. But no. They don't. You know what's even sadder, how the flaws they mentioned aren't even flaws to other people (like me).
Holy shit, what is it with the hate towards this game. I thought it was pretty good, so far, much better than LoLK for sure. Honestly, yes, some Touhou fans really are turning into genwunners.
"Much better than LoLK for sure" Based on only from a demo...? Not only do I disagree (I don't hate this game, but it's only a demo, so of course I find LoLK miles better), but you might want to be careful. People often expect so much after playing the demo and having fun with it that they get disappointed often in the full release. Happened already when it came to many people from Touhou 13 onward.
Lily and her beautiful wings. I like stage 1&2 themes and also stage 3 boss theme, the rest is okay I guess. Overall, it really does look like a fangame. Maybe it's actually the reverse: Fangames outgrow officials and look like the officials instead.
Yeah, this was a bit underwhelming... Lets hope he fixes most of these issues in the final version. However, due to the amount of content this time around (All those shottypes and gimmicks, so much for "going back to the basics"), I am honestly not too sure if hes gonna be able to fix it all.... A strong Stage 4, 5 and 6 would also help the game. Stage 1 and 3 are alrighty but not the best. Stage 2 is downright bad. Also this is more of a personal opinion but the music is... well, lets just say its kinda hard to look good after LoLKs awesome OST.
In my opinion LoLK's demo music was worse. it only started to pick up at Ringo's theme. thats's just my opinion though. I don't think the quality has changed. (lolk stage 2 ear garbage)
Lets see... LoLK: Stage 1 is kinda meh, sure. First Boss is quite catchy, its good for a stage 1 boss theme. Stage 2 is pretty forgetable. Boss theme is pretty nice. Stage 3 is awesome, the best from the ost at the time of the demo by far. Doremy's theme is also pretty good. HSiFS: Stage 1 is... Okay I guess. Not too much better than LoLK's S1. Boss theme is decent. Stage 2 is aparently completely forgetable because I literally cant remember it rn lol. Stage 2 boss is one of the few actually good and catchy music from this demo. Stage 3 is good too, but it cant compete with its LoLK compettitor at all. Boss theme is merely alright. Yeah so far the music is not really ZUN at his best IMO. I only kinda like 2 themes, rest is only serviceable or downright forgetable.
I was talking purely about the music, not about stage design. I am pretty sure so was the other person... LoLK stage 2 completely destroys anything in this demo design wise purely because the Ringo boss fight alone is more impressive and interesting than anything that this game has offered so far lol. I mean cmon on, just compare her nons to HSiFS´s stage 2 boss nons and try to tell me Ringo´s nons dont beat the crap out of this game´s stage 2 boss...Its almost unfair. That said, I am positive ZUN will change these crap nons in the final version- I really feel like they are placeholders.
Cirno represent Summer in this game, one thing that funny is apparently fairies are getting stronger in the Summer, including Cirno, her story is aiming to conquer the Gensokyo
Why do people insist on saying "But it's a demo! But he'll patch it!" in response to everything broken about this game? Remember when ZUN patched MarisaB in MoF? Or when every single broken-ass shot in DDC was fixed, or when LoLK's retarded resource system was fixed, or all the music mistakes in UFO, TD, and DDC? I don't. You better believe everything broken is staying in the final game. Gotta rush out another game for those Summer Comiket bux!
I guess ZUN started running out of ideas on composing music, the style of TH15 and this are so similar. Some western fans think that anything after UFO are doomed. Well I am not very good commenting on gameplay mechanics, but I will say music do get bland after TH14, 15 is still okay but music in 16 sounded too fanmade
The music sounds fine to me. I can hear that bit of "fanmade"-ness in a few parts of the stage 2 theme (mainly the beginning of it) but it then blended well with the other sounds that I didn't really mind it anymore.
Except for the fact that there are plenty of games in the series like UFO and LoLK which are most definitely harder than undertale. The touhou games also have extra stages, which require you to actually clear the games to unlock. I can guarantee Flandre and Mokou are both harder than anything you might see in U-tale
I'm quite dissapointed with this demo.The OST just.. Bland, not even close to Touhou like... The scoring system is quite obviously broken and needs patching.. And the stage design, again, so bland that water has more taste than it. I pray that the final release fixes a damn thing at the very least.
nguyen van linh Also you say you don't hate it but its suck? Then which one is your real opinion? Also, ZUN *always* changes music style and i don't have any idea why it's sounds like a fanmade to you
Wow, there's just no pleasing Touhou fans anymore. Are you all turning into Pokémon fans here, disliking everything past a certain release? You're all lucky he still makes these games.
fans be genwunner lol
It's funny, because almost every new Touhou game have a better music and gameplay than the last. Played the games casually for some years now and i loved every recent games more than the last everytime.
It's the nostalgia effect. Most all Touhou players started a little after the mega-touhou hype that was from PCB to UFO. Everyone remembers playing EoSD first, then IN, PCB, an onward. They embedded into their minds that this is what Touhou is--the very PCB style game. Things obviously have changed a lot from EoSD to UFO, but since that was around when these people started, they percieved all of those changes at once and don't take them into account. Meanwhile, Touhou continues to change as it always has. Backgrounds have gotten more beautiful, music has gotten more realistic, patterns have gotten more intuitive, the art is as terrible as ever, the graphics improve doubly every game, and there's a lot more to new games now than there was before.
But it's happening to me too. I don't like the new games as much as the pre-UFO ones. There's a nostalgic quality to them that's mostly all in my head. The new games are great, and they're super fun, but they'll never match EoSD, PCB, IN, SA, UFO, etc. to me (even though, all fan-loving aside EoSD was a pretty terrible game). It happens to anyone who grows with a community or some medium. They pick favorites. People pick favorites on everything--even people. That's what friends are: favorite people.
There's no use in being angry at them. They likely don't know why they feel the way they do, and they likely just perceive the new ones as "not as good" and have a "golden era" of Touhou in their minds from when they were most into the games. I was most into the games during the SA era, and it's my favorite game next to SA. Go figure.
i’m glad zun even in 2024 (or 2023 i should say..) still continues the games and if i’m being honest, most of the touhou games satisfied me i dunno why anybody would dislike this game, in fact this game has one of best art and visuals if i’m being honest
surprised about there being a flash bomb thing considering his remarks about being "back to basics", though in terms of getting lives and such, it's definitely true.
holy shit, those bgm. im already liking it. just realized this is only until stage 3. i cant imagine how good the rest will be.
Straw hat jizo, crazy backup dancers, concealed four seasons, and hidden God matara
Man at this rate Touhou fans will be like Pokemon fans: Genwunners
This ^^^
Hyper Vanilo I mean, as time passes, that'll be an inevitability in many things
The comment section is cancerous. Do not enter for your own safety.
But I LOVE cancerous comment sections!
Then grab some popcorn with it.
You know, almost everyone hated LoLK when it came out. And now, almost everyone loves it! I really like this demo, especially the music (the scoring system and the release system seems too op tho)
The music is quite good. Took a bit to get use to the stage 2 theme due to the beginning sounds, but it sounds nice too after a bit. Score systems pretty crazy, but what the hell, the game's still fun, even if it's easier. :)
Ive seen lots of TH15 gameplay and I dont think ZUN heavily copy paste stage 2, no patterns are the same
Something strange is happening in Touhou thesedays: at least a half of new characters have bare feet in new Touhou games. I don't know why ZUN makes so nowdays, but I think this is something good for those who love bare feet characters. lol
At 10:45 the boss actually gains a star in her status bar but it's still the last spell card...
The fact that he releases these demos is good because it does give him a chance to get some feedback and tweak stuff like game mechanics based off user reviews and results. But damn people act like the games already out and ruined when theyve seen the first half of an unfinished game.....
Most of this fanbase can hardly even say they understand the games mechanically since 90% dont even play the game never play it well enough to comment on its design. Gordon Ramsay beats the shit out of other chefs who claim to be high class because hes the top of the industry. Jaimers can critique ZUNs work because he's a top tier Bullet Hell player.
The other aspects like character design and music are fair game but keep in mind folks, 1. the music serves a gameplay purpose in Touhou as many bullet patterns are synced with the song's beats like a Rhythm game. 2. it is important to remember that game design is an art form and artists need to be allowed to experiment with different stuff. Copying a game that was successful is in reality, a failure because you arent doing something great youre ripping off something youve already done well.
I love the changes ZUN has made and the new ideas he brings to the table. Its how a series survives rather than dies and no success is made without stumbles along the way. Letting ZUN do what he wants with his content is the best way to obtain the highest quality content we could hope for from the situation.
I found when playing the game that its very visually pleasing but the background can sometimes get in the way of the bullet patterns and create difficult to read areas. The music is good and the designs are neat (it always takes time for the songs and characters to grow on us). I know some people hate exploitable bosses like the safe zones on the butterfly girl but I actually like it. It adds character to the girls through their danmaku which is what Touhou has always been founded on. Its why we fell in love with Cirno. Low level bosses should have exploits to drive home that they are weak. Ditsy characters should make silly mistakes in their danmaku similar to how in ISC the spellcards all showed little twinges of the character's personality whether it be silly or angry, laid-back or intense, comedic or climactic.
I feel sad that most people here in the comments dislike the game. It seems that anything past UFO is shit for the west fanbase.
I've been seeing quite some aggressive comments directed at ZUN indeed for that "he has gotten shit" at making music, characters etc and it's honestly really upsetting. People seemingly don't have the sacred ability to cool down first and let stuff grow on them, but instead start ranting arbitrarily about how bad he's apparently become and his works are like fanmade. Then, please tell me, dear fandom, which actually came first?! Considering that this happens with every single new game ZUN releases, this phenomenon has become really annoying. I'm fine with people disliking his games, but just blatantly saying "this looks like a fangame" is something I cannot digress from, and it's also extremely disrespectful towards the creator of the *original* franchise.
I'm German and I do *love* all the games ZUN's made so far, the HSiFS demo included. I really wish people could be less hot-headed about certain things. It's annoying and can potentially cause unnecessary commotions.
I think the problem is that the fanbase have been spoiled by the very good and high quality fan games that are out there, like Shining Shooting Star, my god that game is just fantastic.
And because of this they expect ZUN works to be better than Fan Made stuff since it's the official Touhou games.
That's most likely so. I've played SSS, BoSM and RSS myself and think that these games are absolutely outstanding for being fanmade. This doesn't keep me from being respectful towards ZUN though, he created the *official* and *original* games first after all. I also doubt that ZUN peeks into fanworks, so the high expectations of the fanbase and the resulting tantrums are really arbitrary honestly.
I agree, ZUN is the original creator and as such deserve to be respected as such. Not only that but ZUN has his own style of doing things.
Also people are judging a game by a trial that just got released...Seriously? If you are going to judge a game might as well do it when it's fully released. Since this is a trial alot of things can still be changed.
Absolutely. It's really unpleasant to see that people like to ignore that fact though.
As much as I love Zun and the characters he creates, I really wish we'd see more old characters make an appearance sometimes, like Lily White does here. Maybe just random Rumiaas mid-boss, or hey it's Tewi as a stage 2 boss ! (Though I suppose fairies, rabbits and small youkai are easier to fit into a new story than goddesses and queens and whatnot.)
Can't convince me those troublesome youkai just cause one incident and call it a day forever, at least the Moriya shrine's known for brewing trouble.
Ah, good to see a return to form. Been a long 2 years.
9:25 when I saw Komano Aunn, I couldn't help but think that I saw that mug before. I saw a picture of her somewhere...
And as always, we get a Lunatic (usually) Perfect run of new touhou game from Jaimers as soon as he can :D
It appears that the HSiFS demo is even more controversial than LoLK's full release, goddamn.
"Shit" stages, "shit" music, "shit" patterns VS "shit" final boss, of which I all like honestly. I actually see a lot of potential with this game's system, especially the shottype combinations, allowing the use of a vast amount of different playing strategies. Music and characters grew warmer after a couple of hours of grinding the mechanics, the stages are actually really atmospheric, and that's what makes ZUN's games so unique in comparison to even the higher quality fangames.
Speaking of which, please stop saying "this looks like a fangame" on ZUN's games. Think about it, which of them actually even came first?! It's just utter disrespect towards him.
Jimmy Tan Most people always love being harsh lmao
That's actually pretty annoying, especially if their "critiques" are completely based on opinions with almost zero trace of objectivity. Disliking and being critical is absolutely okay, what really bothers me with some people around here is their lack of ability to pay respect.
Jimmy Tan Hey, it isn't all that bad.
Lord Sithis Let's hear them.
I think I was overreacting a little bit, so my apologies for that. It's alright.
Lord Sithis, I partially take back what I said. My statement mostly revolved around that people saying that ZUN's latest games start to look like fangames, which I think is disrespectful towards ZUN because he is the creator of the original and official Touhou franchise whereas fanworks such as MPP, RSS, BoSM or SSS are all inspired thereof. I've played these games myself and I think they do surpass some of ZUN's works in terms of pattern design and art quality. Now, that doesn't mean that I'd be saying ZUN's works, no matter how mediocre or average they would be from an objective standpoint (say game mechanics and the implementation thereof, stage design, the bosses' pattern designs, visual quality) start to look like fanworks, because that frankly means discarding ZUN as Touhou's actual creator and giving that credit to the fangame developers instead. Speaking of which, of course they deserve respect too for the trouble they through to complete their works, but the credit for the original concept would still need to go to ZUN.
As for the criticism, I know that there are flaws in the game and I would not just brush them aside, because frankly that's not what I meant to say. Please go ahead.
I like this demo as well, but holy shit, the scoring... just what. It's literally the most absurd scoring system I've ever seen in a Touhou game. Flashbomb releases for survival also seem quite powerful. The resources seem pretty fine for no-bomb no-release play though.
Yes the scoring is absurd, i've seen a video where the score went all the way over 500 million...in just 3 stages, i recon the scores will go well over 1 billion with the full game. It's nuts. Also the flash bombs are really strong as well, Spring is mostly for survival but Winter oh dear god, use that thing at point blank on a boss and watch their HP melt. Autumn is clearly made for scoring and i don't remember what Summer does..
If maximum PIV isn't 500k (more than 400k in the video you mentioned - I watched it too), the score will go over 3 billion as it grows much faster than linear
Autumn is not just for scoring. It's also *insanely* good at bullet canceling. You pretty much don't have to dodge anything with it.
The maximum PIV is 500k. It's been confirmed in a ~760m run I saw.
Thx, hope it'll get changed in the full release. Or maybe it was intended to be that way so that people stop spamming flash bombs and do something else...I wonder
The first part of the stage 2 theme really reminded me of reincarnation for a moment there
10:18 those fucking lasers
Nice run as usual!
that.. is NOT a first boss theme.
RealityMasterRogue look at reimu. she is scared. xd
*Edgy Butterfly Intensifies*
I mean, in the story, faries did get powerful because of the incident.
RealityMasterRogue after Cirno's extra stage you will learn a REALLY cool fact about Eternity....
But it is a spoiler
People say it's a lot easier but I still won't be able to beat this game on normal lol.
We got them bug faries, yandere hags and...
A STONE AWOOOOO
A STONE AUUUUUN
At least this time ZUN was not that drunk as he was when doing Lunatic Kingdom Legacy lol
This game man. Such mixed feelings...
The weird thing is, I actually find this demo better than the demo of LoLK.
Really can't wait for this game to come out, I don't why are you all complaining i like the game
So many people dislike every new release ZUN gives out, whether it be CDs or games. To be honest, nobody's forcing you to interact with his works, and in most cases ZUN doesn't get money from you because you don't purchase his stuff legally, so I don't think it's right that some of you guys openly complain at everything ZUN does for the sake of complaining. Saying something is shitty won't make it better, so why are some of you guys so adamant on saying it? If you hate modern Touhou that much, just stop playing it -- it wouldn't make any difference to ZUN anyway.
I'm not a very big fan of this demo but the flaws the people are mentioning here can literally be applied to some of the older Touhou games. And the safespot and streaming complaints are two of the best examples of my statement.
It's just the demo, let's see if ZUN improves some of the stuff here.
some strange feeling bout th16: on the later stages, nonspell cards and lesser enemies become lots harder than some spellcards
Looks good!
So Reimu's focus got a slight buff... awesome!
I literally cant play bullet hell games because whenever I try to focus on just my character or something, the bullets get too distracting and I get confused. ;_; I wish I could, because they look fun, but I'm shit even at the easiest level. :
Cirno would be the PERFECT boss for stage 4, given that it is presumably the winter stage... sadly, it's not going to happen since she is a playable character...
UNLESS ZUN splits Stage 4 into two version with different bosses depending on the character, like he did in IN.
Yeah. If the same thing in IN happens, this type of fight might be the outcome for stage 4:
Reimu vs Marisa
Marisa vs Reimu
Cirno vs Marisa
Aya vs Reimu
Actually, what I've been thinking is:
Reimu vs Cirno
Cirno vs Marisa(Reimu?)
Marisa vs Cirno
Aya vs Marisa(Reimu?)
So that you can either play as or fight against Cirno in that stage.
Олег Султанов I wonder if Letty will return. Probably not.
Олег Султанов It's based on if you continued after game over, isn't it?
No, it depends on which character you use. If you play as Reimu/Yukari or Youmu/Yuyuko, you will fight Marisa, and if you play as Marisa/Alice or Remilia/Sakuya, you will fight Reimu.
You know what, Cirno is in this game, as a playable character
Hey, Auun's last spell is almost exactly like one of Shinki's attacks.
That first nonspell.. I hope it gets fixed at some point, at least on Hard and above, if not Easy.
Is it me or do some of the attacks that the 3rd boss have seem quite synonymous to some of Keine and Shou's attacks?
Putting that aside, it seems like ZUN showed mercy on us after the "masochistic" LoLK. I'm not a big fan of some of the music but I'm still prepared for hypes. Also, how do you use the thing called "releases".
Lastly, the scoring is quite confusing for me. How do you get extra lives?
You release your "options" by tapping the c button, like trance in th13. Cancelling bullets with it is your only way to get PIV (point item value). And you get lives through hitting a specific score-milestone.
Toshinou Kyouko The music grown on me, the first time I was like "Meh, it's okay." but now I enjoy them.
+Lord Sithis
The game feels like a "toned-down" version of LoLK with a hint of TD. I downloaded the trial already and so far, I find it to be one of the easier games. And about the scoring, I honestly find it to still be better than that of TD. Trance system can be confusing af.
Also, scoring ain't really my priority in the games. My main priority is being able to finish it.
+Lord Sithis
Considering that you need to earn a specific amount of score to earn an extra life, yes. But even so. I'd rather just auto collect the items at the top of the screen if I want to earn the points (I just learned this after playing it). In fact, when I play Touhou, I don't really give too much emphasis on how a certain game differs from the other one (e.g. Trance System in TD or Faith System in MoF) unless it is vital when earning extra lives and bombs in the game. Anyways, I only wish that ZUN would be able to appeal players once the full game is released. Knowing how many people criticized LoLK (which is actually my 3rd favorite 2hu), I'm sure he won't be releasing another "Junko" for the moment.
Okina Chan lmao Okina is a Junko rip off
I hear parts of Desire Drive in the theme for the stage 3 boss. Is that just me?
I personally hear the Prismriver theme.
Shadster_ if you hear the stage 5 theme TD on stage 2 boss a little bit then we're the same :/
自機が季節を表しているのかァ…面白そう〜
honestly, the only gripe i have with this game is the fact that releases deal damage.
not saying that is the only flaw. there are others but i could look past them and still have fun with this game. but the releases feel a lot like actual bombs, because of how much damage potential they have. Spring is pretty much Evil-Sealing Circle 2, and the other releases feel like a variation of MarisaB bomb in DDC. they can dispell boss patterns in less than 5 seconds, you just have to fly up to the boss and use a release near them. if they didnt do damage, it would a bit more challenging and manageable
up until now though, touhou 16 is the game with the most adjustable difficulty and, even if thats not a lot, because touhou isnt that hardcore, i still think its a plus on this game
From a scoring perspective though, the fact that they do damage means that there is at least a modicum of thinking when routing score, as you can't just rush up and flashbomb their faces, as then you'll only end up getting a couple rounds of bullets this way. It's still weird to have flashbombs in an official release, but considering Trance in 13, I can deal. Summer's flash is absolutely retarded in terms of survival, though. Come into a boss with level 6 sub, surely you can NMNB at least, since it only takes 1 level instead of all available like the others. Sure, it's shorter, but it means you can cheese through walls and make streaming much easier.
I'll be waiting with bated breath for the full release, because while there might be slight tweaks to certain things, there's not going to be too much of a change between demo and full if past releases are anything to go by. Unless ZUN looks around for more criticism than usual, the only real thing that'll probably be tweaked are a few patterns and maybe the damage output of certain shots/subs. So far I'm either way on this demo right now - Character designs and boss themes? Sure, I'm down. Stage themes? Yeah, they're pretty good. Stage design? Eh, could be better. Spellcards? Mmmmeh, personally. "We'll see" seems to be my ultimate opinion right now.
Double dealing character/ Hidden star in four lessons
Which one!
I don't even play Touhou and I've got one heck of an inferiority complex right now. Seriously what the hell was that? How? and Why? but mostly How? Are human eyes suppose to register what's going on in that screen?
All these rants about the demo lol just imagine when the full ver is released and stages 4-6 & extra become what y'all call Touhou worthy.
And don't forget Zun laughing when it happens.
Hmm, yeah the difficulty is definitely toned down a lot more.
Well after all he also said in his blog that this game will be a bit easier than TH15
where the fuck touhou 15 is easy?
andrew jiang
I think you misunderstood. Easier than Touhou 15 because it was hard, not because it was easy to begin with.
Yep, seems a lot easier than TH 15 LolK.
Before looking at this comment section I have thought, that russian Touhou fanbase is toxic. How wrong I was...
最高難易度の説明が｢引き篭れ｣と来たかw
演出結構凝ってるな。紅魔郷と花映塚しか持ってないけどメガシンカしたなぁ…
im sorry for asking but does anyone know where i can download touhou games and which one is the easiest (if it's not the first)
go to moriyashrine.weebly.com, you can start from TH13 for your first game
My answer to this comments section:
1. Most of you are playing a game that you don't even pay for. The fact that a good number of you people only pirate his games means he can't even get money from you. In short, you're talking shit about a game that you don't even pay with legal money. And don't tell me stuff like "ZUN doesn't care about western fans pirating his games since it can be really hard to ship them". That's BS. Even though he doesn't care, the fact that you don't pay for it means you have very little right to complain. It's kinda like throwing a tantrum about a present that you didn't like that your parents or relatives gave you during your birthday or last Christmas. Sure, you can point out parts of the game that you think it doesn't do well at, but spewing hate about it when you don't even pay for it only makes you look like a spoiled brat. I myself pirate his games too. But at least I don't act like a complete jerkface to his games with every single little flaw.
2. Your "objective" complaints about this game were all *subjective* af. If you don't like the game then that's your problem. No one's forcing you to find it fun. But you don't DARE CLAIM that what you said were "objective" because not everyone sees your complaints as complaints. Broken scoring? Ok now that can be considered objective. But saying things like "the gameplay sucks" or "the stages and bosses are boring" are COMPLETELY *subjective*. Why? Because there are people (including me) who actually think this game is fun. It only becomes objective if EVERYONE acknowledges it. But not everyone does.
3. Lastly, Stop saying stuff like "It's criticism! You need to criticize ZUN for things he does wrong instead of blindly defending his works". It has nothing to do with blindly defending ZUN nor any other likely story. We just don't see the games the same way you do. That's basically it. Like I said, if you don't like it then that's your problem. But saying your statements were "objective" aren't objective at all.
Quite funny how some criticisms sound fair and respectable while some sound insufferable (to me of course). The latter is true for the criticisms directed at this game.
Oh well guess we can't please every one huh?
Nguyễn Đức Trọng
Yes, but the fact that most people don't even pay for it means they have very little right to complain. If they actually buy it with real money then fine, rant about it for all I care. But no. They don't. You know what's even sadder, how the flaws they mentioned aren't even flaws to other people (like me).
Tfw 1ccd with cirno with releases
hngh. All this hate over a demo. >_>
nightmariversial ikr? :(
Holy shit, what is it with the hate towards this game.
I thought it was pretty good, so far, much better than LoLK for sure.
Honestly, yes, some Touhou fans really are turning into genwunners.
"Much better than LoLK for sure"
Based on only from a demo...? Not only do I disagree (I don't hate this game, but it's only a demo, so of course I find LoLK miles better), but you might want to be careful. People often expect so much after playing the demo and having fun with it that they get disappointed often in the full release. Happened already when it came to many people from Touhou 13 onward.
Lily and her beautiful wings.
I like stage 1&2 themes and also stage 3 boss theme, the rest is okay I guess.
Overall, it really does look like a fangame. Maybe it's actually the reverse: Fangames outgrow officials and look like the officials instead.
I want to say this looks fairly basic, but I'm probably going to get destroyed on my 1cc attempt on normal. (I'm not the best at Touhou.)
Yeah, this was a bit underwhelming...
Lets hope he fixes most of these issues in the final version. However, due to the amount of content this time around (All those shottypes and gimmicks, so much for "going back to the basics"), I am honestly not too sure if hes gonna be able to fix it all....
A strong Stage 4, 5 and 6 would also help the game. Stage 1 and 3 are alrighty but not the best. Stage 2 is downright bad.
Also this is more of a personal opinion but the music is... well, lets just say its kinda hard to look good after LoLKs awesome OST.
In my opinion LoLK's demo music was worse. it only started to pick up at Ringo's theme. thats's just my opinion though. I don't think the quality has changed. (lolk stage 2 ear garbage)
Lets see...
LoLK:
Stage 1 is kinda meh, sure. First Boss is quite catchy, its good for a stage 1 boss theme.
Stage 2 is pretty forgetable. Boss theme is pretty nice.
Stage 3 is awesome, the best from the ost at the time of the demo by far. Doremy's theme is also pretty good.
HSiFS:
Stage 1 is... Okay I guess. Not too much better than LoLK's S1. Boss theme is decent.
Stage 2 is aparently completely forgetable because I literally cant remember it rn lol. Stage 2 boss is one of the few actually good and catchy music from this demo.
Stage 3 is good too, but it cant compete with its LoLK compettitor at all. Boss theme is merely alright.
Yeah so far the music is not really ZUN at his best IMO. I only kinda like 2 themes, rest is only serviceable or downright forgetable.
uh sure
B-but I loved LoLK stage 2...
I was talking purely about the music, not about stage design. I am pretty sure so was the other person...
LoLK stage 2 completely destroys anything in this demo design wise purely because the Ringo boss fight alone is more impressive and interesting than anything that this game has offered so far lol.
I mean cmon on, just compare her nons to HSiFS´s stage 2 boss nons and try to tell me Ringo´s nons dont beat the crap out of this game´s stage 2 boss...Its almost unfair.
That said, I am positive ZUN will change these crap nons in the final version- I really feel like they are placeholders.
Cirno what happen!
You look different ':v
Hi Pink Parsee.
who's the butterfly youkai/fairy (idk)?
Eternity Larva. That's her name
Wtf ??? It's fukin crazy
I have a theory about the character section
Marisa=summer
Reimu=spring
Aya=autumn
Cirino=winter
Cirno represent Summer in this game, one thing that funny is apparently fairies are getting stronger in the Summer, including Cirno, her story is aiming to conquer the Gensokyo
Hyper Vanilo oh, BUT STILL, YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID, CIRINO IS WINTER BECAUSE LOGIC
Whatever makes you in joy, Okuu
Where do u get the game
Why do people insist on saying "But it's a demo! But he'll patch it!" in response to everything broken about this game? Remember when ZUN patched MarisaB in MoF? Or when every single broken-ass shot in DDC was fixed, or when LoLK's retarded resource system was fixed, or all the music mistakes in UFO, TD, and DDC? I don't. You better believe everything broken is staying in the final game. Gotta rush out another game for those Summer Comiket bux!
touhou 17 144fps confirmed?
Woah, that's a lot of FPS
I guess ZUN started running out of ideas on composing music, the style of TH15 and this are so similar.
Some western fans think that anything after UFO are doomed. Well I am not very good commenting on gameplay mechanics, but I will say music do get bland after TH14, 15 is still okay but music in 16 sounded too fanmade
The music sounds fine to me. I can hear that bit of "fanmade"-ness in a few parts of the stage 2 theme (mainly the beginning of it) but it then blended well with the other sounds that I didn't really mind it anymore.
This is my least favorite stage 1-3 so far. (in terms of both pattern and music)
I wish he has some big plans for stage 4-6 man.
Aunn is bullshit XD
why do ppl say touhou is harder than undertale this looks super easy :o
spikeiscool1293 nice, basing a whole series based on one game, very accurate comparison
Except for the fact that there are plenty of games in the series like UFO and LoLK which are most definitely harder than undertale. The touhou games also have extra stages, which require you to actually clear the games to unlock. I can guarantee Flandre and Mokou are both harder than anything you might see in U-tale
Well why don't you try it for yourself, all speak no action
I did sans on my 10th try I dont need to prove anything ^__^
spikeiscool1293
meh probably you will give up on your 10th try on Normal mode
ZUN's games always suck when he says he's "going back to basics"
The question is, when did ZUN's games not suck?
It all went downhill after HRtP
I'm quite dissapointed with this demo.The OST just.. Bland, not even close to Touhou like... The scoring system is quite obviously broken and needs patching.. And the stage design, again, so bland that water has more taste than it.
I pray that the final release fixes a damn thing at the very least.
Agree With u. The theme of stage 3 boss is so Fan-made! I don't hate it but, it suck!
Joshthepikachu2123 Hey at least it's not as terrible as RoHL
Lunartic Skele-bone RoHL?
enternal dark
Recollection of Heaven Liquor
Just...
look it up
nguyen van linh
Also you say you don't hate it but its suck?
Then which one is your real opinion?
Also, ZUN *always* changes music style and i don't have any idea why it's sounds like a fanmade to you