I've heard that cables with multiple flat conductors inside clear plastic casing are more transparent than other cables. I think it's true. I can see through them more easily
@@AudioScienceReview Thank you for your good work Amir. Just want point out that there is one zero missing in the red text on the graph (it says 0.0065) :D
I was excited to see this as I use Morrow’s SP1 cables on my gear. I like you really don’t like claims of distortion free listening, etc., etc. However, besides their typical claims I think Mike and Morrow build good cables that are very flexible and come at a good price with a lifetime replacement guarantee. Mike is very good to work with and seems to really care about his customers too. However, I continue to appreciate what you’re doing to help keep companies honest and the audio community educated.
I also use Morrow SP1 interconnects. I have no idea if the cables are better than generic but the build quality - especially the terminations - does seem better. In my study, I am using DIY speaker cables and I didn't do such a great job with terminations (not soldered) so SP1 speaker cables might well be slightly better.
I LOVE THIS VIDEO. I have long thought that the "expensive cable , cryogenic, flux capacitor , ad nauseum marketing crap" was just that. Crap. And then I love when audiophiles will tell you how you can hear a big difference ...I made home made speaker cables , twisted, wrapped, etc. because I wanted to - they look cool, but I never believed "oh these will be so much better sonically than a pair of $20 cables. THANK YOU
There are 2 things that are VERY important: You need to make them look like a water hose, and there need to be a ´Voodoo block´ attached somewhere to the cable 🙂. Don´t waste time to explain what it is there fore. And if you want to sell them for real big money, you need to heat treat them and burn them in for more days in only one direction, to make the copper structures match the incoming signals.
I agree with you. I spent $150.00 for a pair of 13 ft cables. I replaced my 30 yr. old zip cord. The new replacements are exactly what the seller said with no guarantee on improved sound quality. I'm happy with them. The banana plugs are solid and a snug fit. Well worth the money. Now to open another can of worms. How about audiophiles claiming that glass fuses are no good. Ceramic hi-end fuses make a difference in sound quality??? When will it ever end???
Thanks Amir. I spent $15,000 on a really excellent pair of large floor standing loudspeakers and $34 on a 20 metre roll of 12 gauge twin copper cable I use for speaker cables. Many audiophiles obsess over trivia and spend money on fancy cables instead of spending money where it really matters. At least these cables you tested are reasonably priced if you do not wish to solder your own plugs etc but the very expensive cables are fraudulent.
I wonder when someone will convince all those audiophiles that any connections are bad. All wires should be soldered to the Amp output and should be soldered to the speaker inputs. No connections, no losses! Imagine all those soldering experts visiting people at home soldering things together. But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if I just started a new trend. ;)
Did you test the cable with your ears because as he said the Morrow is reasonable for hi end cables , it is beyond reasonable its cheap . I don't believe in spending big money on cables but they make a difference .
@@deangale4496 :-/ Still not convinced??? Even when a credited professional in the audio industry who's goal is to test and actually find differences both objectively and subjectively still cannot detect or provide any differences whatsoever? If there is No Change in the Frequency Response (Amplitude Response), there is also No Change in what you will hear out of your loudspeakers. Period. Amir demonstrated beyond any doubt that there was absolutely no possible discernible difference between these two cables for their intended use. In his MANY years of professional experience and testing in controlled environments, he has already conducted innumerable Double-Blind A/B/X LISTENING tests that have correlated and corroborated his measurements. So when he performs his objective tests, he already knows from vast experience that there will be no audible difference, and there is no need to waste time listening. In regards to these two particular cables that measure the same, if you "think" that you hear a change, it is your mind and psycho-acoustics that are in play and are the weak link. Yes *some* cables can/do make an audible difference IF they are poorly terminated and/or are specifically DESIGNED to induce a change in the frequency response via increased resistance, capacitance, inductance, etc, and some very expensive "High-End" cables do purposefully induce a change. But if you think that your particular cables somehow improve the characteristics of your loudspeakers compared to a "good" standard cable, then it is a problem or deficiency in the performance of the loudspeakers themselves, and you would be much better served by correcting those issues or getting better speakers, rather than using poor quality cables to "correct" your loudspeaker's problems. You are welcome to purchase these cables and some standard OFC "zip cord" wire and conduct the Double-Blind A/B/X listening test yourself and report back with your honest findings. As long as both cables are of a sufficient wire gauge to support the output power of your amplifier(s), there will be no difference in performance. Try it, without knowing which cable is connected to your system while listening.
Excellent excellent video. my cable of choice is 12 AWG pure copper from Amazon $39 for a 50 foot roll. Then gold plated banana connectors and snake skin given an 8 foot cable each up to around $15. Perfect speaker cables. Paired with my Yamaha AS1200 integrated amp driving my ESS AMT 1 speakers and Pro-Ject turn table. Unbelievable.
I just finished coming from a video where all these people are convinced that cables make a "huge" difference. I guess many of them don't do an unbiased test. I.e. they always know which item is being used. I still make up connections for cables using sawtooth plugs and shrink tube like the ones on this video. Makes the cable seem more expensive and you get to feel satisfaction from making it yourself!
Hey Amir, I really liked how you tested the cables using the two channels and subtraction. It reminded me to try and reach you via message to say that I think it would be great if you added a Null test to your arsenal of test methods. For me it gives me very quick answers to the question "is one thing not like the others"? Send the same signal but 180° out of phase through the two wires and see what is left over. The null test will very quickly show any difference or lack there of and it makes more sense to non-technical people looking at data on graphs and test equipment. Just my $.02 How is it legal for the Morrow website to make false claims from their products? Are we supposed to report them to the better business bureau? Who should we report them to? I really am getting sick of these audio companies that lie so blatantly to their customers yet they fly under the radar of agencies that should regulate them. I don't expect everyone to be an electrical engineer like myself so I feel there should be protection for people against scrupulous snake oil salesman. There is only so much myself and other can do for the community because the indoctrination is so deep already that common people don't even listen to engineers anymore, they actually think they know more than the professionals. It's so bad you will get kicked from groups for actually trying to protect the consumer. I think a huge part of the problem revolves around the fact that most people do not understand how human perception actually works. We do not passively process objective data from the physical world around us, we actively produce our own reality from a very small amount of real world data. The brain and our senses are just not capable of objective analysis of the physical world. This is why blind testing for audio is absolutely critical to get any sort of meaningful data. If blind testing can confirm something measured then and it's repeatable to peers then it is fact. It's called the scientific method and it works for everything except audio equipment apparently lol.
Hello Captain. :) Null tests are challenging due to ADC clock drift. As a result, identical captures will still be different when you do a null test. That said, your suggestion is a good one and I am working on ways to get around this for cable testing.
I would like to have seen a measurement of the LCR parameters of the cables. Also, a distortion measurement of the cable with a transient source signal, perhaps an impulse, so we could investigate any potential phase anomalies. 30 gauge wire wrap wires would probably give identical results given the way you tested but I'm confident they wouldn't sound too good.
I get this request a lot but I rather treat these tweaks and just measure the sound waves. That way, everyone can understand what we are talking about. Most people are not comfortable knowing what to do with LCR parameters. As for the rest, I did measure phase, etc. and there was absolutely no difference. Impulse tests must be done within the audio bandwidth as otherwise, you are using signals that are not representative of the actual application. As an example, an RF coax cable would do wonders here due to ultra high bandwidth but has too much resistance to be useful as a speaker cable.
@@AudioScienceReview My coax cables have very low resistance: awbroadcast.com/produkt/rfs-cellflex-lcf158-50ja-kabel/. But for speakers any electrical cable of 4-10mm² will be sufficient.
"Audiophiles" cannot possibly justify the expense of "high-end" cable by performance. The argument is dead. But....they can still hear the massive improvements...because they want to.
Well you might as well use a 2.5mm solid core electricity mains cable in your system, if you think all cables sound sound the same, because according to you won't hear a sound with a muddy thuddy, poor timing, poor resolution, with no delicate mids and high frequency resolution.
Thanks Amir for showing that there is no audible difference with the Morrow SP3. You have to spend LOTS, TONS more money to get a cable with any audible difference. Check out the MIT ACC 268 Revision 2 Articulation Control Console speaker cable at $111,995.00 for an 8-foot bi-wire version. Reading the "technical explanation" of their Multipole Articulation is a riot, very entertaining.
Amir, sometimes it's not just about the question of expensive or cheap, but about choosing the right measurement method. To illustrate this, the following example: Put metal spikes and a glass plate under your speaker or your amp, then replace them with rubber balls and a wooden plate. Do you hear any difference ? Yes. Can you verify this with periodic 1000 Hz sinusoidal signals? No. Why? Because the measurement method is wrong.
I Agree that these kind of cables are only good for esthetic/durability over cables of similar wire gauges. but there is something to be said about having a good connection between your gear, having the right sized cables for everything, and running your cables correctly. and there are some rare cases where the cables you use can affect sound quality... For example: a 30 foot run of poor quality 24+ gauge speaker wire may have a negative affect on sound quality if you pump a couple hundred watts through it, due to the the fact that the wire may not be able to efficiently conduct the current running through it, especially at lower impedances such as 2 or even 4 ohm loads, with some amps even having trouble driving an unstable output impedance. not to mention smaller gauge wire isn't nearly as robust, being more susceptible to less than ideal conditions, such as being walked on, having objects run over it such as furniture, the rigors outdoor use, or just general wear and fatigue incurred over it's lifetime... Very poor quality connections such as loose wires and ill fitting connectors between your amp and speakers could result in "micro-arcing" that may cause a small amount of noise, especially on very high efficiency speakers such as horns. - as far as signal cables go: poor quality balanced cables such as questionable Off-brand XLR cables may incur more noise on longer runs than decent ones that are up to spec. running wires too close or across each other or AC mains can introduce noise and crosstalk between signal cables. spooling up cables that are WAY too long for your application can create inductance, which can cause signal issues such as noise in some gear due to inductive loads. (I had this issue with a 30 foot cable I only needed a couple feet of) - most of these on their own may not be audible in the average room or with cheap gear, but they can add up and become noticeable, some of which can have surprising affects at their worst case scenarios. - But as far as my preferences go: Speaker wire? I just use black, 12 gauge OFC lamp cord from home depot, with tape marking the polarity verified by my multimeter. I can easily wire up a 2 channel system for under $20. Extremely versatile too, the cable has more durability, flexibility, and power transmission capability than one will ever need in their home! Signal wire? I use run-of-the-mill RCAs, keeping my runs as short as possible, taking care not to cross then or run them too close to AC mains power supplies, or noisy electronics such as my PC. CONCLUSION: It doesn't really matter what you have as long, as you use it properly, and it has the specs suitable for your application...
Amir: first note I am an EE. I have known for years that much of the "audiophile" stuff is simply a rip off. You are proving it. Though I have one question brought to mind by the statement of a now passed famous EE - Robert Pease. When Bob was noting some of these nutty audio 'discrepancies' - he mentioned a way to build speaker cables cheaply which should out preform line cord etc. His approach was to take a multi conductor twisted pair ribbon cable and parallel all the black and all the colored conductors making a cable with very low impedance. In round numbers imagine a single twisted pair at 100ohms, and 50 in parallel at 100/50 = 2 ohms. So 2ohms in series with a nominal 8ohms, compared to 100ohms in series with 8ohms, would obviously provide more signal as frequency increases. BUT then of course - does it matter at audio frequencies? And does the tone control not correct for such a situation? My thought is that he was wrong given the wave length of 20kHz signals, but Bob was a guru. How could he be wrong? For me at least this would be an interesting measurement. Thoughts? Hum,... I wonder if it relates to skin effect,...
I have a doctorate in physics from MIT, a quadruple PHD from Stanford in Electrical Engineering and have written numerous published papers on String Theory. I was instrumental in the development of the first Mars Rover and Elon Musk calls me personally for engineering advice. Steven Hawking was a nice guy, but not in my league. I have access to the most advanced Deep Learning algorithms and my personal computer is a crappy old IBM Quantum Computer that I put together one afternoon because I was bored. My measuring equipment makes Tony Stark blush with envy, and I wouldn't waste my time with an AI as low tech as Jarvis. Also, I'm from the future where genetic engineering has allowed me to have a 400 IQ using your current measurements. I bring you a message from the future, 30 years after the great Audiophile Wars. "Electrons are electrons. Resistors are Resistors and Capacitors are Capacitors." It doesn't matter if you use a paperclip or a Vishay Nude Resistor, it will sound exactly the same. If you disagree, its just confirmation bias because you spent money on fancy resistors and don't understand electricity. A capacitor is a capacitor. There is absolutely ZERO different between a Mundorf AG, an Elna LAO or a generic Nichicon. They all sound 100% exactly the same. If the circuit is properly designed then they should all be identical. It doesn't matter if you are using a run of Southwire 12awg copper cable from Home Depot to feed your Magico A5s or using an Audionote Litz cable. Heck, you could use a socket wrench as long as it conducts. Power Cords? Don't even get my started. Use whatever 12 gauge chord you can find, it makes no difference as long as electrons can feed your equipment. Don't tell me that the last 6 feet of cable from the power plant to your equipment make a difference whatsoever. Everybody knows that electrons flow like water and no amount of money thrown away on a fancy power cord can make up for the miles and miles of industrial 'non-audiophile' cable used to feed your neighborhood and house. If you disagree with anything I've said, then TRUST THE SCIENCE and get help. You are obviously a Snake Oil addict. Don't trust your ears, ever. They will lie to you and the lies increase in volume depending on how much money you threw away on whatever wasteful item you purchased. Just stick to 12awg Southwire on nearly everything and put the money you've saved on something more worthwhile, like a degree in Electrical Engineering or better measuring equipment. Now if you will excuse me, I have consume my daily popcorn rations. One final note. In the future it is a crime punishable by death to ask about 'directionality' of a capacitor or resistor. Outer foil for capacitors? How dare you. A resistor installed 'forward or backwards' My Goodness, the blasphemy. How can something sound different when they all sound the same? I just don't understand how these religious zealots propagate their false beliefs even in my timeline.
Assuem however you concur that new capacitors can sound markedly better than old capacitors simply because they are working out ; and because its difficult to unsolder the capos and take them out to test, simply reasonable to replace them all after say 20 or more years ?
@@johnwhite2576 Oh John, be careful not to get too close to the Snake Oil lava pit or you might fall in! In a properly formed circuit, all capacitors as long as they are functioning should sound 100% identical. If they sound different it is due to them somehow making up for a deficiency in the circuit design. Nichicon KG should sound identical to a Mundorf AG and both of those should sound identical to an ELNA LAO series. Old or new it doesn't matter. Same goes for resistors, some people like to use Vishay Nude resistors and claim to hear a difference, but the only difference is that they got suckered out of their money! Again, trust the science, trust Fauci...I mean, Amir and know that every single time you claim to hear anything different is due to snake oil. NEVER, John, and this is serious here because I don't want you to become one of those zealots that are hunted down in the future Audiophile Wars, NEVER trust your ears. They are pathetic instruments that include a worthless biological 'eardrum' that uses some low tech method of changing vibrations into electricity that must be interpreted by a brain. Absolutely low tech and disgusting and whoever engineered that obviously had no clue how to design a system, much less something as complex as an audio system. We all know that a mind can be corrupted by lies, such as by reading too many forum posts about speaker cable and power cord DIYs. Worry not, this can be corrected with proper re-education. Just make sure that you don't trust your ears because smarter people than you have mountains of graphs and data and degrees and will snivel with righteousness at your caveman mysticism thinking that dielectric constants can impact the sound. Electrons are electrons, just keep repeating that and know that you are with the smart crowd. Whatever you do, PLEASE do not EVER make a power cord using 4 strands of VH Audio Airlok Copper 18AWG wire lightly twisted and terminated with Furutech Gold spades and soldered with Mundorf MSolder Supreme Silver Gold fitted to Oyaide AP-004 and AP-029 (Ebay). Don't you DARE use three times the length of your Hot Wire for the Neutral and Ground using Take 5 Audio 12 Gauge cryo wire and make some sort of Helix Style DIY Power Cord (Don't Google Helix DIY power cord). If they find this in your house, in the future, it is a death sentence. When they knock on your door for inspection, you walk those inspectors to every piece of gear you have in your system and let them see that you are using nothing but generic power cords. You let them know that you trust the science. Stay strong my friend, do not fall into temptation and do not experiment in audiophile la-la land. Just know that everything that there is to be known, is already known. This is ESTABLISHED SCIENCE and you are in no position to question it, because there is nothing to discover and everything that can possibly be known is already known because we have equipment that can measure stuff. Electrons are electrons, remember that. Know that, BE THAT! There is no nuance that can be accepted John. If you believe that capacitors or cables or ANYTHING else make a difference, then you are 100% in with the crowd that believes that putting 1 pound of $4000 Japanese Audiophile Cotton in the corner of your room can really 'open up your top end.' (i.e. actual crazy people) Those people are just as bonkers crazy as the types of 'audiophiles' that think there is still much left to be discovered when it comes to electricity and audio. Don't fall in with the wrong crowd, stay with the high IQ people and savor the effervescent audio nirvana of pure ROMEX like a rational well adjusted human being who values their money.
@@allenh.7373 Do I detect a touch of skepticism here? DUH! For me personally, I use just about a foot of Home Depot 12awg Southwire from my amps (that sit atop of my DIY speakers) with great results. Just doesn't look as fancy as the expensive audiophile bling cables.
@@StewartMarkley THIS IS THE WAY! Good on you for not falling for the snake oil money trap and using established and measurable science. You can swap those 12AWG Southwire parts out for 12AWG .999 Fine Silver from Rio Grande Metals (www.riogrande.com/product/999-Fine-Silver-Round-Wire-12-Ga-Dead-Soft/105312) and you know what would happen to the sound? Absolutely nothing. Some say Silver wire accentuates the high notes and removes some bass. Rubbish crazy talk, I will have no part in that religion of snake oil. But then they'll say "Oh, but Silver is NOTORIOUS for needing Burn in!" My head is about to....explode. Burn in? I can understand mechanical break in of a speaker but how exactly to you 'burn in' a piece of wire? Sure you could put it on a Hagerman signal generator and waste your time and money, and sure you might 'think' that the sound 'opens up' after 72 hours or so, but really its just you being on absolute crack and not having enough of an auditory memory to know that it sounded the same at hour 1, hour 2 and hour 72 on the signal generator. Its just that every hour that went by you remembered how much money you threw away on the Hagerman and your imagination ends up filling in the gaps of denial and all of a sudden 'Oh, I think I hear something." Stewart, one foot of that pure silver would cost you less than $40. Do you know how much that would cost from an 'audiophile' company? Hundreds if not thousands depending on the bling factor. Please, whatever you do, if you get bored and get the itch to just try it and let it 'burn in' (which is complete BS) over the course of a month or so, DON'T. Please do NOT get that cable and do your own experiment and see if you can hear any difference at all between the Southwire and the .999 pure silver for better or for worse the moment you install it. If you think you hear something, then I have a mountain of data and scientific evidence ready to drop on you that proves how foolish you are and that it is your imagination. BUT, if you THINK you hear something, then please by all means go ahead and spend 15 hours setting up a quadruple blind test with 4 people and livestream the results, because that is the only way to prove that you aren't absolutely insane. Or, you can continue to use your Southwire then rest assured that you have already reached the end of the frontier, the pinnacle of the mountain and that all the science and data support this claim. Trust the science, electrons are electrons, as long as there isn't too much resistance it all sounds 10000% exactly the same. Finally there is somebody smart enough, scientific enough and open minded enough to have the COURAGE to speak truth to the Audiofool System of Power and Deception and bring the entire empire down. Amir is the voice in the wilderness for now, but in my time there are statues built for him and he is considered one of our founders.
@@allenh.7373 Ha! I have to tell you that back in the 1960s I used to build and race 1/24th scale slot cars and for a time I had a motor that used 25 gauge silver wire instead of copper (actually I think it was an alloy) and did that sucker ever run fast. I wish I still had it today, I would have to unwind the armature and use the wire to connect one of my speakers and see if I could hear any difference between it and the other speaker with Southwire. Oh but after at least 72 hours of burn-in. 🤣
There is so much misinformation and fake claims in the audio equipment space. One of my favorites is that replacing the links, on 5 way speaker binding posts, with “brand X” loops of wire, will make a huge improvement in soundstage, depth, blah blah blah.... I’d love to see you do a transfer function comparison concerning this. Keep up the great videos.
@13:50 THAT is the test I've wanted to see. I always assumed that between the EMF of the speaker and feedback of the amp, there might be a chance for cables to have too high an impedance to properly control speaker cone movement. Your chart shows that this is not a problem. Thanks!
Amazing. I used to design and run PA systems for touring that were modestly sized two and 3-way systems. The stadium bands would have systems with 4 or 5 bands of amplification. I know first-hand why active crossovers are better than passive, but bi-wiring is more like a kid putting a playing card in the spokes of his bicycle and pretending he's riding a motorcycle.
I completely agree, but what are your thoughts on bi-amping? Assuming using same manufacture amps with same overall wattage. (E.g., Two 50 watt amplifiers, vs One at 100w) would love to hear your input.
@@mostyles328 as I noted before, biamping usually isn't enough. The whole reason for using active frequency division is because electrical power works more efficiently than with passive crossovers. By putting attenuation where there's not so much power, less electrical power is lost to heat at each crossover point. By dividing frequencies at line level, very little electrical power is lost to heat, and so more electrical power turns into acoustical power. If you can double or triple the efficiency of the system, that's a big savings in money. If you can do the same work that a ton of power amplifiers make with passive crossovers does, but with only half a ton of amps, then your shipping costs are also reduced in a big way. Efficiency is better, distortion is less, win-win.
@@StringerNews1 To recap, you are recommending to use active crossovers at the line levels instead of passive ones used in the speakers. Narrowing your frequency band before it hits the separate power amplifiers would increase each amps efficiency. Allowing each amp only concentrating on at given freq. range and therefor increasing greater gain from each separate amp used in Bi-Amping. Do you have any active crossover you would recommend? (equipment: Rotel integrated and RB-1070 thinking of using for the bottom end of some Wharfedale evos, or my old paradigm reference sound good too. BYW, Thanks for the insight. I appreciate it!
@@mostyles328 I'm not in the business of recommending anything, especially consumer gear. Back when I did this kind of thing, I used an off-the-shelf active crossover like the Crown VFX2A, or one of several Rane models. This sort of analog electronics has mostly been replaced with microcontroller-based loudspeaker management systems that perform multiple tasks in the digital domain. For home use, a speaker system would need to have that option, and that's something we just don't see in consumer gear. The ATC SCM150ASL speakers that I use at home are tri-amplified by an internal amplifier plate or an external chassis. There's a passive model for people who value the look of an audio shrine with ostentatious displays of consumer spending. But the very costly shrine doesn't sound as good as the active setup.
@@StringerNews1 I've thought for a while the future of real 'audiophile' gear should be the Genelec / Meridian route with digital connections directly to active speakers. Of course, finding a processor that will do this is ridiculously expensive (despite the fact it should be cheaper). I've since realized that audiophiles are not in the market for the best sound, but rather the best looking HUGE pile of electronics that accomplish nothing measurable. Dedicated DAC per channel with separate power supplies? CHECK! Fancy power conditioners? CHECK! Magic distortion-inducing components that sound better as directly measured by cost? CHECK! McIntosh has nailed it...just sell industrial design with lots of illuminated logos and black glass.
I like to test them but I prefer someone else buys them than me. I still have one of this fancy crossovers for which I paid a ton of money to evaluate. You would think if he is very confident of the merits of the product he would send me one for testing....
@@AudioScienceReview He’ll say your equipment is trash and could never compare to his super human hearing 😅 But I agree, you shouldn’t have to pay for it. There’s no way you’ll get a return from YT views compared to the price of the cables.
I once nearly got sucked in by exotic speaker cables, but my brain and wallet said no. So all I have is one red and one white single conductor house wiring cable, in a lightly twisted, short run of two metres per side. Does the business for me. No need for me to concern myself with the maths, or the physics or the electrical vagaries of oxygen free cables and such. It leaves me to spend my entire time listening to music. Great isn't it? And thanks Amir for lending considerable weight to my beliefs....
I use Morrow cables throughout my system. Met Mike and the team at an audio show years ago. I like your review and feel the same about spending a few bucks to get exactly what I want. They have a great warranty and stand behind their products. One of my favorite speaker manufacturers, Legacy Audio, use their cables exclusively when demonstrating at shows. That gives a little more credibility and made me more comfortable in my buying decision. It's also nice to have "a friend" in the business. The team at Morrow are super approachable and remember you. All without breaking the bank.
Some cheap cables can be quite nasty. I may do a review on them. For now, see: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/when-12-gauge-wire-is-not-12-gauge.3/
Another great video. I think people would be interested in a video explaining how an audiophile on a budget should spend their time and money for maximum effect.
Given good quality electronics, that can be modestly priced, loudspeakers and room acoustics have the biggest influence on audio quality. Vudget around 70% on speaker’s and attend to position and room acoustics.
@@geoff37s38 Yes, even Geddes preaches that the reproduction quality is 90% due to the quality of the loudspeakers, and the electronics will contribute very little overall as long as they are reasonably within spec. But he attributes less to the room acoustics overall than most would these days, and says that only the worst or most obvious and significant reflections need to be mitigated. In his experience and advice, most average household listening rooms are "adequate", barring obvious high-energy reflections from the floor, ceiling, and side/front/back walls... i.e. having one speaker adjacent to a large reflective window, while the other is adjacent to a tall bookcase or large piece of soft/cushioned furniture will obviously result in subpar results. If the loudspeakers are designed well, the response below the Schroeder Frequency will have the most significant anomalies and influence on that frequency range at your listening position.
Thanks Amir. Your explanations on what the graphs and numbers mean are excellent. Without your explanations, a lot of this stuff would go over my head. I would say, "What am I looking at here? What does it mean? What is the significance of these differences (or lack thereof)? " Your explanations answer all these things.
Thanks Peter. That has become one of the main benefits of these videos. I can explain in words very quickly what these things mean. Doing the same in text would be quite tedious to write.
Results exactly what I would expect would I pay the extra and have better made cable most certainly but I really hate the marketing BS. I recently bought some RCA interconnects these I could hear the difference lots of unwanted noise! after dissecting turns out they had next to nothing in the way of shielding.. The original cheap stock cables were better. Really love what you are doing here backing up what you say with actual science.
Yes, there is a limit to how low you go. I like Amazon Basics RCA cables. They are flexible, have good connectors and have lasted a long time in my harsh environment.
Thank you. How about testing by HEARING? May be old fashioned I guess, or some 'things' cannot yet be measured? I replaced my 'previous cable' with a 'different cable'. I needed a longer length and (lack of) availability. Similar price, not 'basic' cable (NZ$1,000.00). MASSIVE difference, could mention many attributes, to sum in one - effortless.
In the grand scheme of things I wouldn't say these are high end (by audiophile people standards) but like you mentioned they are pretty reasonably priced. I ended up buying some cables from Blue Jeans because price was good and saved me the hassle.
@Douglas Blake The sensor is half the story. The magic happens in the human brain and none of that equipment can come even close to approximating that.
Does the Marketing collateral for it list a bullet item o- includes a BONUS test for your confirmation bias ?? They couldn't even coordinate the blue and white with a respective red and black stripe. For that you must buy their top of the line model at double the price.
There are videos on RUclips doing A/B tests on cables. Even through my smartphone speaker the difference is clearly audible. How can this be if all cables test the same?
Your videos are great, but this one leaves me curious. You use the engineering industry standard 0dB reference, but that’s not a standard at the output of differing amplifiers. I’m not surprised speaker cables perform the same if you’re only testing at a few watts or at higher frequencies. Also, the dynamics are exacerbated with a highly amplified signal. What I need to know are the ripple measurements (rise and decay), particularly across the audible frequency range, of various cables. I know for a fact I could hear a difference between $0.50/ft 18ga cables and $4/ft multi-core 12ga cables when running 1kW RMS (both unterminated) to subwoofers. I’d put money on it for a blind A/B test. Now those $1k+ cables making claims of superiority…I’d call those out on being jewelry or snake oil.
Thanks for another great video on audio cables. I don't remember seeing you use both the AP's analog inputs- that measurement setup is great for putting the nail in the coffin of some of the performance claims of the cables.
Yeh the inspiration came to me the night before I did the review. Getting the right instrumentation setup so that those wires didn't interfere with the result was key. I was happy that I already had those probes.
I have Nordost, Chord, Canare, and Mogami speaker cables, they all sounds a bit different. Some of the sound signature changes are easily noticeable. I was from the skeptical and non-believer camp but has since been converted.
If they are that easy to tell apart, then do the comparison blind. Should be easy for you. Repeat 10 times and see if you get at least 8 right. Others in your situation have failed such tests.
I would have liked to see the load on the cables as higher amperage. There would be measurable differences but would they be enough to hear? I have no idea honestly! (Resistance ,inductance and capacitance all should matter or the testing method is flawed)
Audiophiles that like spending money on the "cable of the month" tend to not watch this channel due to the fact it doesn't pander to their delusional thinking that the money they spent on expensive wire wasn't a wasted effort. Real facts scare them off.
As an electrical engineer who has spent countless millions of dollars of other people's money on many different types of wire I use generic Home Depot 16 gage speaker wire. I buy generic interconnects. When Radio Shack went out of business I used the Dollar Store Trisonic brand. Now I'm using Dayton generic. They're better made. A good test for a cable is wire A versus wire A shunted. If there's no difference that's what you want. Wire makes a lousy control element. I use a graphic equalizer anyway so it could hardly matter less. I also use the power cord the manufacturer supplied. If I thought I needed a better one I'd make it myself out of Romex.
As long as they run with these claims I think they are ripping people off, and I would classify it as a very real scam. Remove the claims however, and it 'lifts the veil' as it were.
Hello Amir, I have a 12ft cable from Blue jeans and it has impedance of 1.6ohm at 10khz and measures about 55uF and 6uH in capacitance and inductance. I have another cable that is 13ft and it measures about 0.9ohm impedance at 10khz and measures about 45uF and 6uH capacitance and inductance. I used an LCR meter, these both cables are 20$. What do you think?
How come then that I hear difference between different cables? Please test more cables. I find Nordost to be very focused on transients but can't hold on to the body of a note. Tellurium Q has IMHO better bass then anything else I've tried. If I lived closer you cloud borrow my whole collection of cables. I think there is more to human hearing then measurements can tell.
There is not really. Just do the test blind and you will arrive at the same conclusion. Do a blind test and repeat 10 times and see if you guess correctly 9 out of 10 times. No one has passed such a test.
Truth to be told, I did have them lifted up in the air! I wanted to keep them away from AC lines that are at the bottom of my rack. I also took note to drape both cables similarly as they can pick up interference in the first set of tests.
Hi Amir. Thanks for this video. I agree with your conclusion about cables. I have some Morrow interconnects and I find them entirely adequate. One question I have for those who are "cable believers" is regarding directionality. By what principle would cable direction matter in a system where current oscillates? This makes no sense to me.
Hey Amir you should send those 30 or 40 year old cables to Jay's audio lab on RUclips and him do a comparison test on his 600,000 dollar system and see if there's a audible difference, I bet you 99.99% there will be a difference.
He didn’t, he don’t listen components when he review it. Measurment is his “religion”, but he listen some speakers in mono only. Making audio opinon on stereo sistems only by measurment is not relevant.
Hey Amir! Great review. Is there any way I can get you to test a pair of my Magnepan jumpers (steel bars) that came on my 3.7i’s vs a very small piece of 10gauge copper? And maybe the third with a banana plug? Trying to figure out if replacing my factory jumpers is bogus or not:) Thanks!!
I would also like to see once in while sink impedance down to lets 30-40kOhm area. Poor contact on cheap cables might show up better, if at all. Some class D chip amps have impedance down to 20kOhms.
Hi Amir, but tiny cables vs thick ones: resistance is big difference. It might have no impact on frequency response but will for sure limit the current (so the power). And lower the speakers impedance, and longer the cable is, the impact will be higher. Am I mixing things here?
12 or 14 gauge standard copper cable is all that is required for short runs in a home system as there will be very little resistance added by the cable.
@@geoff37s38 that is not really scientific answer ;-) My speakers are nominal 8 Ohms but min is around 3.5 Ohm. "Short run" is also not much of specification: 5m? 15? So in summary: resistance matter, for sure. I have now 12 AWG but before I had 16 and once changed I hear more beef
@@geoff37s38 you would be surprised Geoff ;-) If amp has peak 20V, and you have pair of cables (+ and -) lets say 7.5m from amp (in my case), it gives you 15m of 12AWG cable. That is close to 0.3 Ohm (both wires). With impedance of speaker reaching in the worst part of frequency around 3 Ohms we are talking 10% of the power being lost in the cable. Now go to 14 AWG... you got my point, right?
спасибо за работу, но есть вопросы. Почему нет фото старого кабеля и всего теста с аппаратурой. 16 калибр, это примерно 1.3 мм2. Почему не взял тонкий провод, сечением к примеру 0.5 мм2 или меньше. Вы сравниваете сопоставимые по сечению кабели. 1.3 и 2.5 или толще (сужу по фото) Методика сравнения мне не очень нравится. Я бы записал на цифровой рекордер сигнал 24 бит 96 кГц. И сравнил бы два сигнала с вычитанием фазы. И аудио файл подложить в видео. Это было бы более наглядно, чем графики.
Greetings Amir, I have purchased gear based upon your reviews before. I see in the simulated time domain test the RED and GREEN do not line up. You state that this is below the threshold of hearing. But could you be missing something here? A correlation to what thousands of audio loving gurus might be hearing? What other ways can you test this domain? Visual waterfall with TD perhaps?
I have tried extensively to prove to myself that cables do not make a difference, basically because I can't afford expensive stuff, but I'm beaten every time. I don't care what the measurements say, I really can hear the difference. I don't want that to be true, I want to save money and spend it elsewhere in the chain, but my ears hear it for sure. I think the audible differences transalte in unmeasurable ways, for now at least, perhaps one day we'll be able to get to the bottom why many people can hear the difference.
I like how in the comments here that so many people imply “OFC” matters. It doesn’t. It’s just another BS audiophools term used to make people think they know an important secret, but it’s actually irrelevant.
One cable that instantly makes a difference in sound quality is Canare star quad. Fairly priced. One of the biggest design factors of a cable is it's geometry. Which when we'll designed has great ability to reject Rf noise. I hear the difference in any system that I plug it in. I'm not a fan of so called audioquest due to it's mass marketing, but I have to give quodos to wireworld for actually presenting it's designs online. Alot of what they do makes sense and so does Canare 👍
Why are you concerned with RF? There is no gain after the amplifier. There is RF all around your ears already do you worry about it's effects on you hearing sound from your speakers? The RF picked up through speaker wire won't even make it out of the tweeter so the RF present in your ear is already at a higher level than what is coming out of your speakers, the transducers and balance networks are acting as RF filters. If you are hearing a difference with "Canare" you can only hear a diminished sound quality, the "geometry" is increasing L and C parameters, mostly I see speaker cables using geometry to lower inductance but then the capacitance is increased now attenuating your high frequencies. As Amir shows the LCR variables are so small with standard cable that you don't have any effects on bandwidth as shown in his measurements. If you now change geometry, and therefore change LCR variables to the point you hear a difference then it can only diminish or attenuate the signal period end of story. So basically you are creating a real audible and measurable problem trying avoid RF that is not a problem to begin with. Sounds like a really awful business model to me.
the nylon mesh and the way the heatshrink is used makes it look like I made this cable for a lipol battery at work today. didnt know people would pay so much for them
Just wondering if you actually listened to these cables? You can do all the tests you want but the human ear will tell you if these are good and worth the money.
Oh, all the time. I even do null tests now with music. Results of all of them is that these cables don't do anything for sound. If you hear a difference, it is imagined. Repeat the test blind and those differences go away.
Once you get past a certain point in hi end audio you are buying art work. Plain and simple, which is fine, as long as people understand where their money is going. I've always said, phono to pre-amp cables are more noticed, from say CD to pre-amp less so, from pre-amp to power-amp less, and amp to speakers, least. And don't get me started on power cord! How stupid to think the power cord is going to have ANY audible effect. People don't seem to realize that placebo effect you really do hear a difference, but it's in your brain, not the equipment. Argued with some guy who kept saying, "then why do I hear a difference?"
@Randy G, Kinda makes me laugh, You can show absolute scientific proof that two audio signals are identical and they'll argue there's some magical element to the sound that can't be measured but with trained audiophile ears that defy all the laws of physics you can hear it. And they say they understand the placebo effect then deny that it has any effect on them. The one I get a kick out of debating is power cords. Being an electrician I totally understand the purpose of a power cord, what goes thru it and the absolute non effect different cords can have on the AC power. AND where it is in the signal chain, It isn't ! I had one guy telling me exactly what you were saying, but I can hear the difference and you have to try it and see, which I have. Then he just proceded to start telling me I was just lying about trying different cords. And the circles of illogic they start talking in is amazing. Sorry for the rant, don't really care what people with more money than brains do with it, just don't like to see people who have to spend wisely get sucked in.
@Randy G , yup. Like in criminal law, the eye witness was once thought to be the best witness. But then along came fingerprints, ballistics, DNA, and suddenly we find the eye witness is quite fallible.
I've heard that cables with multiple flat conductors inside clear plastic casing are more transparent than other cables. I think it's true.
I can see through them more easily
🤣🤣🤣
@@mjoet731 😂😂🤣🤣
Ridiculous . Its a bit of wire . Hifi is a very expensive joke
Us guys sometimes say that the ladies are illogical and irrational. Well they don't spend hundreds on audio cables do they.
Or tens of thousands on cars.
Good point. On the other hand, there are those purses and shoes ...
Look up how much a Hermes bag cost lol
I need to steal that line! :)
Some also believe that now that everything is invented they can run the world better than men.🙄
Great work on this one. Really appreciate the direct and candid insights regarding the product and value proposition. Keep up the great work!
Thanks John. Was a long day today so it is nice to see the work being appreciated. :)
@@AudioScienceReview Thank you for your good work Amir. Just want point out that there is one zero missing in the red text on the graph (it says 0.0065) :D
I was excited to see this as I use Morrow’s SP1 cables on my gear.
I like you really don’t like claims of distortion free listening, etc., etc.
However, besides their typical claims I think Mike and Morrow build good cables that are very flexible and come at a good price with a lifetime replacement guarantee.
Mike is very good to work with and seems to really care about his customers too.
However, I continue to appreciate what you’re doing to help keep companies honest and the audio community educated.
I also use Morrow SP1 interconnects. I have no idea if the cables are better than generic but the build quality - especially the terminations - does seem better. In my study, I am using DIY speaker cables and I didn't do such a great job with terminations (not soldered) so SP1 speaker cables might well be slightly better.
Good to know. More the reason to sell on basis of good customer service and such than any claims of fidelity.
@@AudioScienceReview Could not agree more Amir
I LOVE THIS VIDEO. I have long thought that the "expensive cable , cryogenic, flux capacitor , ad nauseum marketing crap" was just that. Crap. And then I love when audiophiles will tell you how you can hear a big difference ...I made home made speaker cables , twisted, wrapped, etc. because I wanted to - they look cool, but I never believed "oh these will be so much better sonically than a pair of $20 cables. THANK YOU
That's my reasoning as well. Cables are just bling for me. You can't fault me for that!
There are 2 things that are VERY important: You need to make them look like a water hose, and there need to be a ´Voodoo block´ attached somewhere to the cable 🙂.
Don´t waste time to explain what it is there fore.
And if you want to sell them for real big money, you need to heat treat them and burn them in for more days in only one direction, to make the copper structures match the
incoming signals.
I agree with you. I spent $150.00 for a pair of 13 ft cables. I replaced my 30 yr. old zip cord. The new replacements are exactly what the seller said with no guarantee on improved sound quality. I'm happy with them. The banana plugs are solid and a snug fit. Well worth the money. Now to open another can of worms. How about audiophiles claiming that glass fuses are no good. Ceramic hi-end fuses make a difference in sound quality??? When will it ever end???
Thanks Amir. I spent $15,000 on a really excellent pair of large floor standing loudspeakers and $34 on a 20 metre roll of 12 gauge twin copper cable I use for speaker cables. Many audiophiles obsess over trivia and spend money on fancy cables instead of spending money where it really matters. At least these cables you tested are reasonably priced if you do not wish to solder your own plugs etc but the very expensive cables are fraudulent.
I wonder when someone will convince all those audiophiles that any connections are bad. All wires should be soldered to the Amp output and should be soldered to the speaker inputs. No connections, no losses! Imagine all those soldering experts visiting people at home soldering things together. But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if I just started a new trend. ;)
@@edgar9651 Not going to happen.. They aren't going to desolder every time they upgrade
@@edgar9651 Solder is a very poor electrical conductor.
Did you test the cable with your ears because as he said the Morrow is reasonable for hi end cables , it is beyond reasonable its cheap . I don't believe in spending big money on cables but they make a difference .
@@deangale4496
:-/ Still not convinced??? Even when a credited professional in the audio industry who's goal is to test and actually find differences both objectively and subjectively still cannot detect or provide any differences whatsoever?
If there is No Change in the Frequency Response (Amplitude Response), there is also No Change in what you will hear out of your loudspeakers. Period.
Amir demonstrated beyond any doubt that there was absolutely no possible discernible difference between these two cables for their intended use.
In his MANY years of professional experience and testing in controlled environments, he has already conducted innumerable Double-Blind A/B/X LISTENING tests that have correlated and corroborated his measurements.
So when he performs his objective tests, he already knows from vast experience that there will be no audible difference, and there is no need to waste time listening.
In regards to these two particular cables that measure the same, if you "think" that you hear a change, it is your mind and psycho-acoustics that are in play and are the weak link.
Yes *some* cables can/do make an audible difference IF they are poorly terminated and/or are specifically DESIGNED to induce a change in the frequency response via increased resistance, capacitance, inductance, etc, and some very expensive "High-End" cables do purposefully induce a change.
But if you think that your particular cables somehow improve the characteristics of your loudspeakers compared to a "good" standard cable, then it is a problem or deficiency in the performance of the loudspeakers themselves, and you would be much better served by correcting those issues or getting better speakers, rather than using poor quality cables to "correct" your loudspeaker's problems.
You are welcome to purchase these cables and some standard OFC "zip cord" wire and conduct the Double-Blind A/B/X listening test yourself and report back with your honest findings.
As long as both cables are of a sufficient wire gauge to support the output power of your amplifier(s), there will be no difference in performance. Try it, without knowing which cable is connected to your system while listening.
Excellent excellent video. my cable of choice is 12 AWG pure copper from Amazon $39 for a 50 foot roll. Then gold plated banana connectors and snake skin given an 8 foot cable each up to around $15. Perfect speaker cables. Paired with my Yamaha AS1200 integrated amp driving my ESS AMT 1 speakers and Pro-Ject turn table. Unbelievable.
I just finished coming from a video where all these people are convinced that cables make a "huge" difference.
I guess many of them don't do an unbiased test. I.e. they always know which item is being used.
I still make up connections for cables using sawtooth plugs and shrink tube like the ones on this video. Makes the cable seem more expensive and you get to feel satisfaction from making it yourself!
Another banger of a video, with expected results. Keep 'em up, Amir!
Will do. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for another "emperor has no cloths" video!
Great video Amir. You being "transparent" adds to the credibility of your videos aswell.
Keep it coming.
Thanks a bunch. Will do.
Hey Amir, I really liked how you tested the cables using the two channels and subtraction. It reminded me to try and reach you via message to say that I think it would be great if you added a Null test to your arsenal of test methods. For me it gives me very quick answers to the question "is one thing not like the others"? Send the same signal but 180° out of phase through the two wires and see what is left over. The null test will very quickly show any difference or lack there of and it makes more sense to non-technical people looking at data on graphs and test equipment. Just my $.02
How is it legal for the Morrow website to make false claims from their products? Are we supposed to report them to the better business bureau? Who should we report them to? I really am getting sick of these audio companies that lie so blatantly to their customers yet they fly under the radar of agencies that should regulate them. I don't expect everyone to be an electrical engineer like myself so I feel there should be protection for people against scrupulous snake oil salesman. There is only so much myself and other can do for the community because the indoctrination is so deep already that common people don't even listen to engineers anymore, they actually think they know more than the professionals. It's so bad you will get kicked from groups for actually trying to protect the consumer. I think a huge part of the problem revolves around the fact that most people do not understand how human perception actually works. We do not passively process objective data from the physical world around us, we actively produce our own reality from a very small amount of real world data. The brain and our senses are just not capable of objective analysis of the physical world. This is why blind testing for audio is absolutely critical to get any sort of meaningful data. If blind testing can confirm something measured then and it's repeatable to peers then it is fact. It's called the scientific method and it works for everything except audio equipment apparently lol.
Hello Captain. :) Null tests are challenging due to ADC clock drift. As a result, identical captures will still be different when you do a null test. That said, your suggestion is a good one and I am working on ways to get around this for cable testing.
I would like to have seen a measurement of the LCR parameters of the cables. Also, a distortion measurement of the cable with a transient source signal, perhaps an impulse, so we could investigate any potential phase anomalies. 30 gauge wire wrap wires would probably give identical results given the way you tested but I'm confident they wouldn't sound too good.
There are no phase anomalies anywhere close to the audible band with 8ft of zip cable.
I get this request a lot but I rather treat these tweaks and just measure the sound waves. That way, everyone can understand what we are talking about. Most people are not comfortable knowing what to do with LCR parameters. As for the rest, I did measure phase, etc. and there was absolutely no difference. Impulse tests must be done within the audio bandwidth as otherwise, you are using signals that are not representative of the actual application. As an example, an RF coax cable would do wonders here due to ultra high bandwidth but has too much resistance to be useful as a speaker cable.
@@AudioScienceReview My coax cables have very low resistance: awbroadcast.com/produkt/rfs-cellflex-lcf158-50ja-kabel/. But for speakers any electrical cable of 4-10mm² will be sufficient.
Do you not consider a sine wave as a series of positive and negative impulses, more or less?
@@tomterrific9459 He was probably asking for one 100 amps impulse.
"Audiophiles" cannot possibly justify the expense of "high-end" cable by performance. The argument is dead. But....they can still hear the massive improvements...because they want to.
Well you might as well use a 2.5mm solid core electricity mains cable in your system, if you think all cables sound sound the same, because according to you won't hear a sound with a muddy thuddy, poor timing, poor resolution, with no delicate mids and high frequency resolution.
Thanks Amir for showing that there is no audible difference with the Morrow SP3. You have to spend LOTS, TONS more money to get a cable with any audible difference. Check out the MIT ACC 268 Revision 2 Articulation Control Console speaker cable at $111,995.00 for an 8-foot bi-wire version. Reading the "technical explanation" of their Multipole Articulation is a riot, very entertaining.
Blue Jeans Cables here . Very satisfied
@Douglas Blake 16ga lamp cord might be a little too light. Even Amir does not recommend that.
Amir, sometimes it's not just about the question of expensive or cheap, but about choosing the right measurement method. To illustrate this, the following example: Put metal spikes and a glass plate under your speaker or your amp, then replace them with rubber balls and a wooden plate. Do you hear any difference ? Yes. Can you verify this with periodic 1000 Hz sinusoidal signals? No. Why? Because the measurement method is wrong.
I Agree that these kind of cables are only good for esthetic/durability over cables of similar wire gauges.
but there is something to be said about having a good connection between your gear, having the right sized cables for everything, and running your cables correctly.
and there are some rare cases where the cables you use can affect sound quality...
For example:
a 30 foot run of poor quality 24+ gauge speaker wire may have a negative affect on sound quality if you pump a couple hundred watts through it, due to the the fact that the wire may not be able to efficiently conduct the current running through it, especially at lower impedances such as 2 or even 4 ohm loads, with some amps even having trouble driving an unstable output impedance.
not to mention smaller gauge wire isn't nearly as robust, being more susceptible to less than ideal conditions, such as being walked on, having objects run over it such as furniture, the rigors outdoor use, or just general wear and fatigue incurred over it's lifetime...
Very poor quality connections such as loose wires and ill fitting connectors between your amp and speakers could result in "micro-arcing" that may cause a small amount of noise, especially on very high efficiency speakers such as horns.
-
as far as signal cables go:
poor quality balanced cables such as questionable Off-brand XLR cables may incur more noise on longer runs than decent ones that are up to spec.
running wires too close or across each other or AC mains can introduce noise and crosstalk between signal cables.
spooling up cables that are WAY too long for your application can create inductance, which can cause signal issues such as noise in some gear due to inductive loads. (I had this issue with a 30 foot cable I only needed a couple feet of)
-
most of these on their own may not be audible in the average room or with cheap gear, but they can add up and become noticeable, some of which can have surprising affects at their worst case scenarios.
-
But as far as my preferences go:
Speaker wire?
I just use black, 12 gauge OFC lamp cord from home depot, with tape marking the polarity verified by my multimeter.
I can easily wire up a 2 channel system for under $20.
Extremely versatile too, the cable has more durability, flexibility, and power transmission capability than one will ever need in their home!
Signal wire?
I use run-of-the-mill RCAs, keeping my runs as short as possible, taking care not to cross then or run them too close to AC mains power supplies, or noisy electronics such as my PC.
CONCLUSION: It doesn't really matter what you have as long, as you use it properly, and it has the specs suitable for your application...
The amplifier differential measurement was super interesting and educational. Thanks for including that!
Amir: first note I am an EE. I have known for years that much of the "audiophile" stuff is simply a rip off. You are proving it. Though I have one question brought to mind by the statement of a now passed famous EE - Robert Pease. When Bob was noting some of these nutty audio 'discrepancies' - he mentioned a way to build speaker cables cheaply which should out preform line cord etc. His approach was to take a multi conductor twisted pair ribbon cable and parallel all the black and all the colored conductors making a cable with very low impedance. In round numbers imagine a single twisted pair at 100ohms, and 50 in parallel at 100/50 = 2 ohms. So 2ohms in series with a nominal 8ohms, compared to 100ohms in series with 8ohms, would obviously provide more signal as frequency increases. BUT then of course - does it matter at audio frequencies? And does the tone control not correct for such a situation? My thought is that he was wrong given the wave length of 20kHz signals, but Bob was a guru. How could he be wrong? For me at least this would be an interesting measurement. Thoughts?
Hum,... I wonder if it relates to skin effect,...
I have a doctorate in physics from MIT, a quadruple PHD from Stanford in Electrical Engineering and have written numerous published papers on String Theory. I was instrumental in the development of the first Mars Rover and Elon Musk calls me personally for engineering advice. Steven Hawking was a nice guy, but not in my league. I have access to the most advanced Deep Learning algorithms and my personal computer is a crappy old IBM Quantum Computer that I put together one afternoon because I was bored. My measuring equipment makes Tony Stark blush with envy, and I wouldn't waste my time with an AI as low tech as Jarvis. Also, I'm from the future where genetic engineering has allowed me to have a 400 IQ using your current measurements. I bring you a message from the future, 30 years after the great Audiophile Wars.
"Electrons are electrons. Resistors are Resistors and Capacitors are Capacitors." It doesn't matter if you use a paperclip or a Vishay Nude Resistor, it will sound exactly the same. If you disagree, its just confirmation bias because you spent money on fancy resistors and don't understand electricity. A capacitor is a capacitor. There is absolutely ZERO different between a Mundorf AG, an Elna LAO or a generic Nichicon. They all sound 100% exactly the same. If the circuit is properly designed then they should all be identical. It doesn't matter if you are using a run of Southwire 12awg copper cable from Home Depot to feed your Magico A5s or using an Audionote Litz cable. Heck, you could use a socket wrench as long as it conducts. Power Cords? Don't even get my started. Use whatever 12 gauge chord you can find, it makes no difference as long as electrons can feed your equipment. Don't tell me that the last 6 feet of cable from the power plant to your equipment make a difference whatsoever. Everybody knows that electrons flow like water and no amount of money thrown away on a fancy power cord can make up for the miles and miles of industrial 'non-audiophile' cable used to feed your neighborhood and house. If you disagree with anything I've said, then TRUST THE SCIENCE and get help. You are obviously a Snake Oil addict. Don't trust your ears, ever. They will lie to you and the lies increase in volume depending on how much money you threw away on whatever wasteful item you purchased. Just stick to 12awg Southwire on nearly everything and put the money you've saved on something more worthwhile, like a degree in Electrical Engineering or better measuring equipment.
Now if you will excuse me, I have consume my daily popcorn rations.
One final note. In the future it is a crime punishable by death to ask about 'directionality' of a capacitor or resistor. Outer foil for capacitors? How dare you. A resistor installed 'forward or backwards' My Goodness, the blasphemy. How can something sound different when they all sound the same? I just don't understand how these religious zealots propagate their false beliefs even in my timeline.
Assuem however you concur that new capacitors can sound markedly better than old capacitors simply because they are working out ; and because its difficult to unsolder the capos and take them out to test, simply reasonable to replace them all after say 20 or more years ?
@@johnwhite2576 Oh John, be careful not to get too close to the Snake Oil lava pit or you might fall in! In a properly formed circuit, all capacitors as long as they are functioning should sound 100% identical. If they sound different it is due to them somehow making up for a deficiency in the circuit design. Nichicon KG should sound identical to a Mundorf AG and both of those should sound identical to an ELNA LAO series. Old or new it doesn't matter. Same goes for resistors, some people like to use Vishay Nude resistors and claim to hear a difference, but the only difference is that they got suckered out of their money! Again, trust the science, trust Fauci...I mean, Amir and know that every single time you claim to hear anything different is due to snake oil. NEVER, John, and this is serious here because I don't want you to become one of those zealots that are hunted down in the future Audiophile Wars, NEVER trust your ears. They are pathetic instruments that include a worthless biological 'eardrum' that uses some low tech method of changing vibrations into electricity that must be interpreted by a brain. Absolutely low tech and disgusting and whoever engineered that obviously had no clue how to design a system, much less something as complex as an audio system. We all know that a mind can be corrupted by lies, such as by reading too many forum posts about speaker cable and power cord DIYs. Worry not, this can be corrected with proper re-education. Just make sure that you don't trust your ears because smarter people than you have mountains of graphs and data and degrees and will snivel with righteousness at your caveman mysticism thinking that dielectric constants can impact the sound. Electrons are electrons, just keep repeating that and know that you are with the smart crowd. Whatever you do, PLEASE do not EVER make a power cord using 4 strands of VH Audio Airlok Copper 18AWG wire lightly twisted and terminated with Furutech Gold spades and soldered with Mundorf MSolder Supreme Silver Gold fitted to Oyaide AP-004 and AP-029 (Ebay). Don't you DARE use three times the length of your Hot Wire for the Neutral and Ground using Take 5 Audio 12 Gauge cryo wire and make some sort of Helix Style DIY Power Cord (Don't Google Helix DIY power cord). If they find this in your house, in the future, it is a death sentence. When they knock on your door for inspection, you walk those inspectors to every piece of gear you have in your system and let them see that you are using nothing but generic power cords. You let them know that you trust the science. Stay strong my friend, do not fall into temptation and do not experiment in audiophile la-la land. Just know that everything that there is to be known, is already known. This is ESTABLISHED SCIENCE and you are in no position to question it, because there is nothing to discover and everything that can possibly be known is already known because we have equipment that can measure stuff. Electrons are electrons, remember that. Know that, BE THAT! There is no nuance that can be accepted John. If you believe that capacitors or cables or ANYTHING else make a difference, then you are 100% in with the crowd that believes that putting 1 pound of $4000 Japanese Audiophile Cotton in the corner of your room can really 'open up your top end.' (i.e. actual crazy people) Those people are just as bonkers crazy as the types of 'audiophiles' that think there is still much left to be discovered when it comes to electricity and audio. Don't fall in with the wrong crowd, stay with the high IQ people and savor the effervescent audio nirvana of pure ROMEX like a rational well adjusted human being who values their money.
@@allenh.7373 Do I detect a touch of skepticism here? DUH! For me personally, I use just about a foot of Home Depot 12awg Southwire from my amps (that sit atop of my DIY speakers) with great results. Just doesn't look as fancy as the expensive audiophile bling cables.
@@StewartMarkley THIS IS THE WAY! Good on you for not falling for the snake oil money trap and using established and measurable science. You can swap those 12AWG Southwire parts out for 12AWG .999 Fine Silver from Rio Grande Metals (www.riogrande.com/product/999-Fine-Silver-Round-Wire-12-Ga-Dead-Soft/105312) and you know what would happen to the sound? Absolutely nothing. Some say Silver wire accentuates the high notes and removes some bass. Rubbish crazy talk, I will have no part in that religion of snake oil. But then they'll say "Oh, but Silver is NOTORIOUS for needing Burn in!" My head is about to....explode. Burn in? I can understand mechanical break in of a speaker but how exactly to you 'burn in' a piece of wire? Sure you could put it on a Hagerman signal generator and waste your time and money, and sure you might 'think' that the sound 'opens up' after 72 hours or so, but really its just you being on absolute crack and not having enough of an auditory memory to know that it sounded the same at hour 1, hour 2 and hour 72 on the signal generator. Its just that every hour that went by you remembered how much money you threw away on the Hagerman and your imagination ends up filling in the gaps of denial and all of a sudden 'Oh, I think I hear something." Stewart, one foot of that pure silver would cost you less than $40. Do you know how much that would cost from an 'audiophile' company? Hundreds if not thousands depending on the bling factor. Please, whatever you do, if you get bored and get the itch to just try it and let it 'burn in' (which is complete BS) over the course of a month or so, DON'T. Please do NOT get that cable and do your own experiment and see if you can hear any difference at all between the Southwire and the .999 pure silver for better or for worse the moment you install it. If you think you hear something, then I have a mountain of data and scientific evidence ready to drop on you that proves how foolish you are and that it is your imagination. BUT, if you THINK you hear something, then please by all means go ahead and spend 15 hours setting up a quadruple blind test with 4 people and livestream the results, because that is the only way to prove that you aren't absolutely insane.
Or, you can continue to use your Southwire then rest assured that you have already reached the end of the frontier, the pinnacle of the mountain and that all the science and data support this claim. Trust the science, electrons are electrons, as long as there isn't too much resistance it all sounds 10000% exactly the same. Finally there is somebody smart enough, scientific enough and open minded enough to have the COURAGE to speak truth to the Audiofool System of Power and Deception and bring the entire empire down. Amir is the voice in the wilderness for now, but in my time there are statues built for him and he is considered one of our founders.
@@allenh.7373 Ha! I have to tell you that back in the 1960s I used to build and race 1/24th scale slot cars and for a time I had a motor that used 25 gauge silver wire instead of copper (actually I think it was an alloy) and did that sucker ever run fast. I wish I still had it today, I would have to unwind the armature and use the wire to connect one of my speakers and see if I could hear any difference between it and the other speaker with Southwire. Oh but after at least 72 hours of burn-in. 🤣
This is a brutal video. I love it.
There is so much misinformation and fake claims in the audio equipment space. One of my favorites is that replacing the links, on 5 way speaker binding posts, with “brand X” loops of wire, will make a huge improvement in soundstage, depth, blah blah blah.... I’d love to see you do a transfer function comparison concerning this. Keep up the great videos.
@13:50 THAT is the test I've wanted to see. I always assumed that between the EMF of the speaker and feedback of the amp, there might be a chance for cables to have too high an impedance to properly control speaker cone movement. Your chart shows that this is not a problem. Thanks!
Great review! You just saved me a lot of money. Thank you!
Amazing. I used to design and run PA systems for touring that were modestly sized two and 3-way systems. The stadium bands would have systems with 4 or 5 bands of amplification. I know first-hand why active crossovers are better than passive, but bi-wiring is more like a kid putting a playing card in the spokes of his bicycle and pretending he's riding a motorcycle.
I completely agree, but what are your thoughts on bi-amping? Assuming using same manufacture amps with same overall wattage. (E.g., Two 50 watt amplifiers, vs One at 100w) would love to hear your input.
@@mostyles328 as I noted before, biamping usually isn't enough. The whole reason for using active frequency division is because electrical power works more efficiently than with passive crossovers. By putting attenuation where there's not so much power, less electrical power is lost to heat at each crossover point. By dividing frequencies at line level, very little electrical power is lost to heat, and so more electrical power turns into acoustical power. If you can double or triple the efficiency of the system, that's a big savings in money. If you can do the same work that a ton of power amplifiers make with passive crossovers does, but with only half a ton of amps, then your shipping costs are also reduced in a big way. Efficiency is better, distortion is less, win-win.
@@StringerNews1 To recap, you are recommending to use active crossovers at the line levels instead of passive ones used in the speakers. Narrowing your frequency band before it hits the separate power amplifiers would increase each amps efficiency. Allowing each amp only concentrating on at given freq. range and therefor increasing greater gain from each separate amp used in Bi-Amping. Do you have any active crossover you would recommend? (equipment: Rotel integrated and RB-1070 thinking of using for the bottom end of some Wharfedale evos, or my old paradigm reference sound good too. BYW, Thanks for the insight. I appreciate it!
@@mostyles328 I'm not in the business of recommending anything, especially consumer gear. Back when I did this kind of thing, I used an off-the-shelf active crossover like the Crown VFX2A, or one of several Rane models. This sort of analog electronics has mostly been replaced with microcontroller-based loudspeaker management systems that perform multiple tasks in the digital domain. For home use, a speaker system would need to have that option, and that's something we just don't see in consumer gear. The ATC SCM150ASL speakers that I use at home are tri-amplified by an internal amplifier plate or an external chassis. There's a passive model for people who value the look of an audio shrine with ostentatious displays of consumer spending. But the very costly shrine doesn't sound as good as the active setup.
@@StringerNews1 I've thought for a while the future of real 'audiophile' gear should be the Genelec / Meridian route with digital connections directly to active speakers. Of course, finding a processor that will do this is ridiculously expensive (despite the fact it should be cheaper). I've since realized that audiophiles are not in the market for the best sound, but rather the best looking HUGE pile of electronics that accomplish nothing measurable. Dedicated DAC per channel with separate power supplies? CHECK! Fancy power conditioners? CHECK! Magic distortion-inducing components that sound better as directly measured by cost? CHECK! McIntosh has nailed it...just sell industrial design with lots of illuminated logos and black glass.
Any chance of you testing Danny’s cables? Just to put that subject to rest?
To test Danny's cables you need a radio receiver with an analoge meter for the RF signals. ;)
@@edgar9651 That would be a hilarious opener of the vid :-p
@@edgar9651 Now that there was really funny. :)
I like to test them but I prefer someone else buys them than me. I still have one of this fancy crossovers for which I paid a ton of money to evaluate. You would think if he is very confident of the merits of the product he would send me one for testing....
@@AudioScienceReview He’ll say your equipment is trash and could never compare to his super human hearing 😅
But I agree, you shouldn’t have to pay for it. There’s no way you’ll get a return from YT views compared to the price of the cables.
I once nearly got sucked in by exotic speaker cables, but my brain and wallet said no. So all I have is one red and one white single conductor house wiring cable, in a lightly twisted, short run of two metres per side.
Does the business for me. No need for me to concern myself with the maths, or the physics or the electrical vagaries of oxygen free cables and such. It leaves me to spend my entire time listening to music.
Great isn't it? And thanks Amir for lending considerable weight to my beliefs....
I use Morrow cables throughout my system. Met Mike and the team at an audio show years ago. I like your review and feel the same about spending a few bucks to get exactly what I want. They have a great warranty and stand behind their products. One of my favorite speaker manufacturers, Legacy Audio, use their cables exclusively when demonstrating at shows. That gives a little more credibility and made me more comfortable in my buying decision. It's also nice to have "a friend" in the business. The team at Morrow are super approachable and remember you. All without breaking the bank.
I have never been swayed by sales people.
I would be interested in seeing whether the results are the same using copper clad aluminum rather than copper cable, assuming ample thickness.
Some cheap cables can be quite nasty. I may do a review on them. For now, see: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/when-12-gauge-wire-is-not-12-gauge.3/
GREAT WORK! Thank you for spending so much time on this.
This is my favourite feelgood YT-channel.
Another great video. I think people would be interested in a video explaining how an audiophile on a budget should spend their time and money for maximum effect.
Given good quality electronics, that can be modestly priced, loudspeakers and room acoustics have the biggest influence on audio quality. Vudget around 70% on speaker’s and attend to position and room acoustics.
@@geoff37s38
Yes, even Geddes preaches that the reproduction quality is 90% due to the quality of the loudspeakers, and the electronics will contribute very little overall as long as they are reasonably within spec.
But he attributes less to the room acoustics overall than most would these days, and says that only the worst or most obvious and significant reflections need to be mitigated.
In his experience and advice, most average household listening rooms are "adequate", barring obvious high-energy reflections from the floor, ceiling, and side/front/back walls...
i.e. having one speaker adjacent to a large reflective window, while the other is adjacent to a tall bookcase or large piece of soft/cushioned furniture will obviously result in subpar results.
If the loudspeakers are designed well, the response below the Schroeder Frequency will have the most significant anomalies and influence on that frequency range at your listening position.
Great video - once again. Both me and my kitten loves your videos - that cursor is so much fun.
I love how Amir brings balance to the force.
Is there a premium cables that receive in this channel POSITIVE Review ? Cant find something to smile on ... thanks
Thanks Amir. Your explanations on what the graphs and numbers mean are excellent. Without your explanations, a lot of this stuff would go over my head. I would say, "What am I looking at here? What does it mean? What is the significance of these differences (or lack thereof)? " Your explanations answer all these things.
Thanks Peter. That has become one of the main benefits of these videos. I can explain in words very quickly what these things mean. Doing the same in text would be quite tedious to write.
Results exactly what I would expect would I pay the extra and have better made cable most certainly but I really hate the marketing BS. I recently bought some RCA interconnects these I could hear the difference lots of unwanted noise! after dissecting turns out they had next to nothing in the way of shielding.. The original cheap stock cables were better. Really love what you are doing here backing up what you say with actual science.
Yes, there is a limit to how low you go. I like Amazon Basics RCA cables. They are flexible, have good connectors and have lasted a long time in my harsh environment.
@@AudioScienceReview Not seen a bad cable of theirs to be honest don't look and feel basic at all!
So....you are saying I can't hear a .0065 db difference between cables? How dare you! Lol
Thanks Amir. Once again facts and logic presented clearly and objectively.
Thank you. How about testing by HEARING? May be old fashioned I guess, or some 'things' cannot yet be measured? I replaced my 'previous cable' with a 'different cable'. I needed a longer length and (lack of) availability. Similar price, not 'basic' cable (NZ$1,000.00). MASSIVE difference, could mention many attributes, to sum in one - effortless.
In the grand scheme of things I wouldn't say these are high end (by audiophile people standards) but like you mentioned they are pretty reasonably priced. I ended up buying some cables from Blue Jeans because price was good and saved me the hassle.
The Most hated man in Hi-Fi Audio. He backs up what he says with cold, hard, facts. Bravo!
You can’t measure psycho acoustics and audio differences with highly revealing equipment. These measurements are amateur hour.
@Douglas Blake The sensor is half the story. The magic happens in the human brain and none of that equipment can come even close to approximating that.
Excellent video....maybe you can use this type of test with the outrageously expensive 1m interconnect cables vs standard ‘in the box’ ones.
Does the Marketing collateral for it list a bullet item o- includes a BONUS test for your confirmation bias ??
They couldn't even coordinate the blue and white with a respective red and black stripe.
For that you must buy their top of the line model at double the price.
There are videos on RUclips doing A/B tests on cables. Even through my smartphone speaker the difference is clearly audible. How can this be if all cables test the same?
Your videos are great, but this one leaves me curious. You use the engineering industry standard 0dB reference, but that’s not a standard at the output of differing amplifiers. I’m not surprised speaker cables perform the same if you’re only testing at a few watts or at higher frequencies. Also, the dynamics are exacerbated with a highly amplified signal. What I need to know are the ripple measurements (rise and decay), particularly across the audible frequency range, of various cables. I know for a fact I could hear a difference between $0.50/ft 18ga cables and $4/ft multi-core 12ga cables when running 1kW RMS (both unterminated) to subwoofers. I’d put money on it for a blind A/B test. Now those $1k+ cables making claims of superiority…I’d call those out on being jewelry or snake oil.
Thanks for another great video on audio cables. I don't remember seeing you use both the AP's analog inputs- that measurement setup is great for putting the nail in the coffin of some of the performance claims of the cables.
Yeh the inspiration came to me the night before I did the review. Getting the right instrumentation setup so that those wires didn't interfere with the result was key. I was happy that I already had those probes.
I have Nordost, Chord, Canare, and Mogami speaker cables, they all sounds a bit different. Some of the sound signature changes are easily noticeable. I was from the skeptical and non-believer camp but has since been converted.
If they are that easy to tell apart, then do the comparison blind. Should be easy for you. Repeat 10 times and see if you get at least 8 right. Others in your situation have failed such tests.
I would have liked to see the load on the cables as higher amperage. There would be measurable differences but would they be enough to hear? I have no idea honestly! (Resistance ,inductance and capacitance all should matter or the testing method is flawed)
Love it; more audiofoolery!
Another myth-busting video from Amir, well done! Fabulous and fantastic. I hope someone will send you an OCC speaker cable in near future!
Thanks a bunch. Folks know where to find me with any other cable they have.
Non OCC cables are essentially perfect. OCC cables can be at best as good, or only worse.
so what you are saying is that both cables would present the same tonal sound and in a blind test there would be no difference?
Nice work, Amir, but when will you finish our's?
Thanks for telling the truth, that’s why I subscribe to your channel. You won’t settle and honesty is appreciated.
Oh no its debunk cable and MQA month, let the comments begin, LOL, gunna get some popcorn !
Audiophiles that like spending money on the "cable of the month" tend to not watch this channel due to the fact it doesn't pander to their delusional thinking that the money they spent on expensive wire wasn't a wasted effort. Real facts scare them off.
@@davidlong1786 yes this channel gives them the cold shivers
As an electrical engineer who has spent countless millions of dollars of other people's money on many different types of wire I use generic Home Depot 16 gage speaker wire. I buy generic interconnects. When Radio Shack went out of business I used the Dollar Store Trisonic brand. Now I'm using Dayton generic. They're better made.
A good test for a cable is wire A versus wire A shunted. If there's no difference that's what you want. Wire makes a lousy control element. I use a graphic equalizer anyway so it could hardly matter less. I also use the power cord the manufacturer supplied. If I thought I needed a better one I'd make it myself out of Romex.
Great review, thank you.
As long as they run with these claims I think they are ripping people off, and I would classify it as a very real scam. Remove the claims however, and it 'lifts the veil' as it were.
Then try to justify the price lol
@@liesandy291 hand made by a human, who needs to eat and feed a family?
@@dogbreaththe3rd851 ok and?
@@liesandy291 Positional good, build quality, better materials and hand made...
Very good analysis. I wonder if there would be more of a difference for long runs of cord. What if you do these tests with 40-50 feet?
Thanks for the sanity!
:)
But do they make the vocalist sound more up front? :-)
Amir, this is a BRILLIANT review and test of speaker cables. Thank you for your thoughtfulness, thoroughness and debunking the cable fantasies.
Amir, could you please turn off the light? I'm trying to read, for crap sake...
Hello Amir, I have a 12ft cable from Blue jeans and it has impedance of 1.6ohm at 10khz and measures about 55uF and 6uH in capacitance and inductance. I have another cable that is 13ft and it measures about 0.9ohm impedance at 10khz and measures about 45uF and 6uH capacitance and inductance. I used an LCR meter, these both cables are 20$. What do you think?
The real question is how does one measure hubris?
Does oxidation affect... ? so well built does matter ? At least to protect against mechanical failure ... ( if I’m using that term correctly)
did i miss the part where you did extensive a/b blind testing listening to real music on a nice stereo?
has he tested any silver plated copper cables? I'm interested in high frequency effects by silver plates copper. preferably solid core copper
How come then that I hear difference between different cables? Please test more cables. I find Nordost to be very focused on transients but can't hold on to the body of a note. Tellurium Q has IMHO better bass then anything else I've tried. If I lived closer you cloud borrow my whole collection of cables.
I think there is more to human hearing then measurements can tell.
There is not really. Just do the test blind and you will arrive at the same conclusion. Do a blind test and repeat 10 times and see if you guess correctly 9 out of 10 times. No one has passed such a test.
I'm sure if you tested these cables with and without cable lifters we would all see and hear a remarkable difference
Truth to be told, I did have them lifted up in the air! I wanted to keep them away from AC lines that are at the bottom of my rack. I also took note to drape both cables similarly as they can pick up interference in the first set of tests.
You are being facetious?
Hi Amir. Thanks for this video. I agree with your conclusion about cables. I have some Morrow interconnects and I find them entirely adequate.
One question I have for those who are "cable believers" is regarding directionality.
By what principle would cable direction matter in a system where current oscillates? This makes no sense to me.
Anything that has lay analog, gets folks confused. They think batteries are directional so should cables!
Hey Amir you should send those 30 or 40 year old cables to Jay's audio lab on RUclips and him do a comparison test on his 600,000 dollar system and see if there's a audible difference, I bet you 99.99% there will be a difference.
Cheers Amir, typo in your graph there at 8:18. Then ≠ Than.
When you test these do you put other things turned on near the cable? Like power cables and all of that.
Dear Amir, have you ever found components that sound different even though the noise and distortion analysis shows similar results?
He didn’t, he don’t listen components when he review it. Measurment is his “religion”, but he listen some speakers in mono only. Making audio opinon on stereo sistems only by measurment is not relevant.
@@johnlonky8591 that's right. you have to listen a n d take the right measurements
Hey Amir! Great review. Is there any way I can get you to test a pair of my Magnepan jumpers (steel bars) that came on my 3.7i’s vs a very small piece of 10gauge copper? And maybe the third with a banana plug? Trying to figure out if replacing my factory jumpers is bogus or not:) Thanks!!
I would also like to see once in while sink impedance down to lets 30-40kOhm area. Poor contact on cheap cables might show up better, if at all. Some class D chip amps have impedance down to 20kOhms.
Hi Amir, but tiny cables vs thick ones: resistance is big difference. It might have no impact on frequency response but will for sure limit the current (so the power). And lower the speakers impedance, and longer the cable is, the impact will be higher. Am I mixing things here?
12 or 14 gauge standard copper cable is all that is required for short runs in a home system as there will be very little resistance added by the cable.
@@geoff37s38 that is not really scientific answer ;-) My speakers are nominal 8 Ohms but min is around 3.5 Ohm. "Short run" is also not much of specification: 5m? 15? So in summary: resistance matter, for sure. I have now 12 AWG but before I had 16 and once changed I hear more beef
@@zyghom a short 12 gauge cable of a few metres has a resistance of a small fraction of an Ohm.
@@geoff37s38 you would be surprised Geoff ;-) If amp has peak 20V, and you have pair of cables (+ and -) lets say 7.5m from amp (in my case), it gives you 15m of 12AWG cable. That is close to 0.3 Ohm (both wires). With impedance of speaker reaching in the worst part of frequency around 3 Ohms we are talking 10% of the power being lost in the cable. Now go to 14 AWG... you got my point, right?
@@zyghom 15 metres of 12 gauge has a resistance of about 0.03 Ohms not 0.3 Ohms.
Wow ! This guy is good. I had never heard of him before yesterday..
спасибо за работу, но есть вопросы.
Почему нет фото старого кабеля и всего теста с аппаратурой.
16 калибр, это примерно 1.3 мм2. Почему не взял тонкий провод, сечением к примеру 0.5 мм2 или меньше. Вы сравниваете сопоставимые по сечению кабели. 1.3 и 2.5 или толще (сужу по фото)
Методика сравнения мне не очень нравится. Я бы записал на цифровой рекордер сигнал 24 бит 96 кГц. И сравнил бы два сигнала с вычитанием фазы. И аудио файл подложить в видео. Это было бы более наглядно, чем графики.
The snake oil SLAYER strikes again, Thank Amir. Golden channel for a noob like myself regarding audio.
Greetings Amir, I have purchased gear based upon your reviews before. I see in the simulated time domain test the RED and GREEN do not line up. You state that this is below the threshold of hearing. But could you be missing something here? A correlation to what thousands of audio loving gurus might be hearing? What other ways can you test this domain? Visual waterfall with TD perhaps?
when you test with the speaker to my knowledge a speaker aint a resistor it is a reactive load it should kick back and alter the signal ..... .
Oh, this should be good. Popping some corn
I have tried extensively to prove to myself that cables do not make a difference, basically because I can't afford expensive stuff, but I'm beaten every time. I don't care what the measurements say, I really can hear the difference. I don't want that to be true, I want to save money and spend it elsewhere in the chain, but my ears hear it for sure. I think the audible differences transalte in unmeasurable ways, for now at least, perhaps one day we'll be able to get to the bottom why many people can hear the difference.
So what's the big conclusion, buy the cheapest cables you find?
I switched between $20/pair xlr cable off of Amazon and $400/pair crystal cables and switched back and forth. No difference at all.
I like how in the comments here that so many people imply “OFC” matters. It doesn’t. It’s just another BS audiophools term used to make people think they know an important secret, but it’s actually irrelevant.
Great stuff.
One cable that instantly makes a difference in sound quality is Canare star quad. Fairly priced. One of the biggest design factors of a cable is it's geometry. Which when we'll designed has great ability to reject Rf noise. I hear the difference in any system that I plug it in. I'm not a fan of so called audioquest due to it's mass marketing, but I have to give quodos to wireworld for actually presenting it's designs online. Alot of what they do makes sense and so does Canare 👍
Made my own speaker cables out of Canare 4s11 stock. Great stuff and really well priced.
Why are you concerned with RF? There is no gain after the amplifier. There is RF all around your ears already do you worry about it's effects on you hearing sound from your speakers? The RF picked up through speaker wire won't even make it out of the tweeter so the RF present in your ear is already at a higher level than what is coming out of your speakers, the transducers and balance networks are acting as RF filters.
If you are hearing a difference with "Canare" you can only hear a diminished sound quality, the "geometry" is increasing L and C parameters, mostly I see speaker cables using geometry to lower inductance but then the capacitance is increased now attenuating your high frequencies. As Amir shows the LCR variables are so small with standard cable that you don't have any effects on bandwidth as shown in his measurements. If you now change geometry, and therefore change LCR variables to the point you hear a difference then it can only diminish or attenuate the signal period end of story.
So basically you are creating a real audible and measurable problem trying avoid RF that is not a problem to begin with. Sounds like a really awful business model to me.
Lol.. you're arguing against a cable that's under $2/ metre now? I hear that coat hangers also perform just as well.
I think it would help so much if the cables were just reasonable on price then people wouldn't be throwing out the whole snake oil thing.
the nylon mesh and the way the heatshrink is used makes it look like I made this cable for a lipol battery at work today. didnt know people would pay so much for them
I am quite saddened by the condition of the pink panther
Just wondering if you actually listened to these cables? You can do all the tests you want but the human ear will tell you if these are good and worth the money.
Oh, all the time. I even do null tests now with music. Results of all of them is that these cables don't do anything for sound. If you hear a difference, it is imagined. Repeat the test blind and those differences go away.
Breath of fresh air. Thanks Amir !
Science what a concept. Lol.
Cheers
Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
Once you get past a certain point in hi end audio you are buying art work. Plain and simple, which is fine, as long as people understand where their money is going. I've always said, phono to pre-amp cables are more noticed, from say CD to pre-amp less so, from pre-amp to power-amp less, and amp to speakers, least. And don't get me started on power cord! How stupid to think the power cord is going to have ANY audible effect. People don't seem to realize that placebo effect you really do hear a difference, but it's in your brain, not the equipment. Argued with some guy who kept saying, "then why do I hear a difference?"
@Randy G, Kinda makes me laugh, You can show absolute scientific proof that two audio signals are identical and they'll argue there's some magical element to the sound that can't be measured but with trained audiophile ears that defy all the laws of physics you can hear it. And they say they understand the placebo effect then deny that it has any effect on them. The one I get a kick out of debating is power cords. Being an electrician I totally understand the purpose of a power cord, what goes thru it and the absolute non effect different cords can have on the AC power. AND where it is in the signal chain, It isn't ! I had one guy telling me exactly what you were saying, but I can hear the difference and you have to try it and see, which I have. Then he just proceded to start telling me I was just lying about trying different cords. And the circles of illogic they start talking in is amazing. Sorry for the rant, don't really care what people with more money than brains do with it, just don't like to see people who have to spend wisely get sucked in.
@Randy G , yup. Like in criminal law, the eye witness was once thought to be the best witness. But then along came fingerprints, ballistics, DNA, and suddenly we find the eye witness is quite fallible.
Pffahahaha, my popcorns are getting soggy from all laugh-crying! I thought of the reaction to this video from people at AudioQuest marketing dept.
They make a HUGE difference to the people selling then ( $$$$$ )