What is and isn't snake oil? Audiophiles speak up!
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- I put the question to a group of audiophiles, what is snake oil, and their answers will surprise you! Feel free to add your opinion in the comments below.
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My favorite was the guy that stopped buying equipment and just buys tickets to live concerts now. That guy was great!
Audio equipment is a home-based substitution for concerts or programs you didn't get to go to, or performers you never got to hear life.
spend a million dollars in your living room to try to capture the real thing. never gonna happen. live music all day
Thanks Brian, music is what it's all about! Live music is IT!
I think Wayne is way off base.
No one into audio believes they are going to replace or reproduce a live concert experience. And the fact that audio is unable to do that, does not make it 'snake oil'. I am a member of the Los Angeles and Orange County Audio Society, the largest audiophile club in the world, and not a single member I have ever talked to believes they are reproducing a live experience.
All that audio does, is give us a window into the original event. The better the system is, the larger, cleaner, less distorting that window becomes.
Also worth pointing out: lots of music is not a band playing; it's electronically produced music that is played over giant speakers during a concert, and those speakers aren't hi-fi. Just purely in terms of the texture of the sound, a high-end system at home actually sounds better in that case. 'course that doesn't account for the feel of the crowd and the place, which just can't be reproduced.
One time I reversed my directional cables and interconnects and all my music started playing backwards and told me to worship satan.
Anything that does not stand up to rigorous blind testing is snake oil. Even gear that measures well is a type of snake oil if the improvements over lesser equipment is not discernible to the human ear.
Definitely not a form of snake oil. Better specs are obtained by building better equipment. Granted there is a point where most can't hear the difference. If you can't hear it save your money. But better gear is better gear. Snake oil is imagined orovements that can't be backed by science
@@donalddluckerii3147 ....including the science of human perception limits
You nailed it.
Snake oil is a step above the diminishing returns found in all high end audio. Snake oil is when a product makes no logical sense, provides no measurable audio improvement but is still highly priced.
That's the best answer to date. You hit the nail on head!!!
@@fredcostas1945 I agree Fred. Well said Ian and spot on!
I agree too, and even if something is technically measurable can the human ear detect the difference?
Yes like absurdly priced pieces of wire for 18,000 and up, what can they do to a piece of wire to make it worth that much? nothing big rip off artists
Magic Pebbles.
I put melons on my speakers and cauliflower on my amp. Maybe that's why I'm feeling melancholy.
Nice lol.
Ba Zing!
John 😎
Lol! Peach of a comment
Dum,dum................tsh! But still funny all the same.
As an old guy myself, I couldn't help notice that at best most of these audiophiles are long past hearing the top octave out of any system we hear, and so anything that claims to affect the subtle effects steming from the high frequencies is snake oil to us.
Michael Knoerzer I am 67 years old now and have good hearing but have some loss in the upper octave I am sure. Just a slight bit of treble boost is all that is needed for us. Tone controls are NOT snake oil and can help make up for deficiencies or differences in taste, recordings, speakers.
You can test your hearing online anytime. If you're over 60 and can hear above 10k hertz you are doing well.
Something tells me that's why so many speakers these days are tipped up past 10kHz these days.
Don’t worry, I’m 26 and hear only up to 14KHz, while I was able to hear up to 18KHz about 10 years ago.
@Fat Rat That joke is old.
adding a heavy melon atop a speaker would change the sound for physical reasons, snake oil could apply if you claimed the sound was improved and you charged $1000 for the melon.
Hmph!
I find 50lbs of cast iron stops my subs from hopping around the room.
My relatives refuse to hold them down for more than a couple of minutes.... Hardly long enough to make it worth paying them;-/
( See thumbnail ;-)
@Fat Rat
6ft 200lb Honeydew!
Is that fat Mr🐀?
Adding a light melon would also change it. These "audiophiles" never heard of diffraction? Here's some more cables boys.
Of course it has to be the right kind of melon. Some of your cheaper Mexican or American grown water melons are simply not as sonically transparent or revealing as your higher end Japanese square water melons.
"whatever I don't like or I can't afford is snake oil" - best answer, love this guy.
The whole concept of "Audiophile" is Snakeoil. It is a concept invented by Hifi Salesmen and high end Audio Equipment manufactuers to create a consumer class, for them to manipulate with praise and derision.
Very interesting
Very well said. That's why I picked my name that way, besides Audiophile 13.
Could not have put that better myself.
Disagree. An audiophile is a lover of audio. No different from bibliophile, cinephile, etc.
I hadn't thought of it that way before. I guess we have to go titleless?
This was like the Seinfeld finale where all the characters from the show came back in one episode.
Some of the people did look like they were in that show, and I know Seinfeld is snake oil!
Les Wever, the comment went over your head.
@@_Chev_Chelios OK, but Seinfeld is still snake oil
Never underestimate the power of cognitive dissonance. I mean, if you spend a few hundred or even a few thousands bucks on something, it surely must be better right?
Since I can’t hear the tone this comment was written I’m gonna guess that you were sarcastic towards the end.
Cognitive dissonance is something that is very very serious, but it does not fit with your example entirely! To me it sounds more like a placebo effect whereas cognitive dissonance is more likely to occur when 3 people 1 newbie observing and 2 experienced people debate and defend their point of view. Or when watching creators on RUclips or videos like these where the cognitive spectator feels pressured to make a decision as to who he believes.
@@itsfilipbitch5545 Cognitive Dissonance is simply said a conflict between heart and mind. "I spent 500 bucks on new cables but can't hear a difference, which makes me feel stupid, but my ego doesn't want to feel stupid so I create the illusion of hearing a difference" Ex post reasoning/buyer's remorse.
Your examples are what I'd categorize as Dissociative Group phenomena. "Experienced vs. inexperienced user, who'd you rather believe?"
The terms Cognitive Dissonance/Dissociative Group when used in marketing/consumer behavior are quite broadly defined, so lets better not start splitting hairs.
"I've got a room full of suckers" 😆
A was an "audiophile" and spent thousends on gear untill I went to a recording studio with amps and speskers three times cheaper than mines and was blow away by the quality sound. Since that day I didn't spend one more dolar on gear and all the money went to room acoustics. That day I learned that a 10.000 system in a 10.000 room sounds way way better than a 50.000 system on an average living room.
The room honestly makes the biggest difference. Sound is complex in the way it interacts with walls and surfaces, and the better you optimize that the better your system sounds.
I can never understand why people don't buy studio equipment.
Watch out when a review for audio equipment sounds like a wine tasting:
“Open, light and airy with a hint of raspberries.”
...and blackcurrants, with a strong yet gentle long finish
Yes, but music is feelings, so it's not strange that we need a special vocabulary to describe sound difference when the difference is there but it's hard to describe with normal words.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 But it's all useless if those words aren't clearly defined. Much of terminology they use is ambiguous at best, so it's not actually conveying any real information. Really, I can learn more about the sound of a piece of equipment by looking a frequency response chart for 2m then I could from listening to one of these guys talk about it for 30.
Ha! I got the same impression watching headphone reviews.
That’s when I started thinking it’s bullshit.
Steve, can you please find out what kind of watermelon they used? I’m at the supermarket listening room right now!
Seedless. Seeds add distortion.
@@TheAgeOfAnalog Everyone already knows that. That's why they got rid of the seeds in the first place. Duh! 🙄
I feel we need a double blind test with various other melons before we can make a definitive statement here.
I use a honeydew melon, surprisingly cheaper but find the denser flesh has better sonic properties
I put grapefruit on mine. The sound is different. It's like apples to oranges, or should I say watermelon to grapefruit.
What surely isn't Snake Oil is friendship. I wish there were clubs like this in all the small towns in the USA. I bet it would beat most psychiatrists' couches in making ones life a nicer journey.
You guys are blessed!
P.S. Are AC power regenerators like the expensive PS Audio units Snake Oil?
Don't know about friendship, but I KNOW that anyone spending a fine fortune in a PS Audio (or whatever the brand) AC power regenerator needs one or maybe two pschyatrists.
Ventura Rodríguez Vallejo PS audio regenerator needs not be expensive but they help me a lot in my audio system. Flactuations in power were gone and drop in noise during playback get me more in my seat. Regenerators are good especially in those countries who experience power problems and needed them, but the price of it is I think the ¨snake oil¨at best.
@martytoo
Very well said, and thank you for saying it!
As for Power Regenerators: Clean power going to your system is vital. The cleaner you can make your power source, the cleaner the sound coming out the other end will be.
However, the ways in which you get that clean power will also make a difference.
I can't speak for PS Audio as a company, having never tried any of their products myself; but I can tell you to be cautious, do your research, and audition before making a final purchase if at all possible.
I think power regulation is really important to preserve your equipment and to help it sounds it's best. I'm sure PS Audio's power regenerators are great and I bet they aren't excessively overpriced for what they cost to make. However, I seriously doubt they make as much difference in sound as the same amount of money put into room treatment or source components or some nice furniture etc. I think we forget that listening to and using a stereo is far more than just sound quality. A good power regulation system gives audiophiles the knowledge that they are doing what they can to protect their investments and help eliminate sources of trouble, even if they probably won't be able to hear a difference. I also bet some equipment benefits from it far more than others.
Well, power regenerators both are and aren’t snakeoil.
Noisefree power actually makes a difference, but this can be achieved by using a simple RC filter and (in case of noisy ground) an isolation transformer.
No need to overcomplicate this by completely regenerate the power.
The issue I have with PSAudio is that you pay for ~90% branding and ~10% product.
"These guys payed for my porsches" by ceo of monster cable
I mean if you have a well tuned ear it makes sense changing component materials changes sound....
Same reason they love tube amps. Even slight changes could in theory be heard if your sensory threshold is ow enough.
I'm no audiophile and think accuracy is most important, and playing with random fittings and materials will not get you to a replicatable set up. But you might find something that sounds better to your ear even if it's not more accurate in any objective way.
I probably am in the bottom 5% of money put into my system on who watched this video. I do not buy this sort of stuff.....But if i had spent tens of thousands on my system yea i'd play with the cords if i thought they were acting as a psuedo equalizer.
@@ericmiller254 it would be useful if any subjective review of any audio produtc could be back up by standardized spectrum analysis, impedance curves, etc. Cables are the simplest component and funny enough are the ones that came with the less amount concrete data and instead they came with lots of claims founded by whishfull poetry. The headphone/dac crowd, which is a more recent audiophile branch, are much more demanding of concrete data. They produce 3d waterfall graphic representations of the fequency response for instance. The audiofools pay hundreds for 1 meter power cable and forget the all electrical installation inside the walls. Let alone if that has any effect on the retifier section on the power supply section of their amps. The retifiers only need to transform the ac grid power to a fixed dc voltage rail. If the cheap included power cable and the 500 dollar power cable produces the same values to the rails then....well, this would leed less porsche sales i suppose.
@@xedasxedas You make the assumption that the differences we hear will be reflected in the test equipment that currently exists.
There is still much that is unknown about why things sound the way they do to us.
@@VideoArchiveGuy You make the assumption that i don't know what kind of test equipement exists and how good it can be. Also, the responsability to provide proof for "ridiculous claims" rests on those who make them not in those who call it bs. Claiming you "hear the different" is not a proof by the way, specially when a +125 dB spectrum analizer cant mesure the difference between to speaker cables for instance. It's funny the the unknown part of the sciences behind these issues like psicho acoustics can be used against those who try to use it and those against those who denied it. Please bare in mind that this "magical" instrumentation knowledge put a analisar on the moon, enables terabytes/sec communications and nanotechnology. Stay safe .
@@xedasxedas Enjoy thinking a spectrum analyzer CAN measure every parameter of the listening experience.
Double blind ABX is the gold standard. Anything short of that is subjective and highly susceptible to placebo.
What is definitely not snake oil- but almost never gets mentioned- is a pair of high quality, well programmed hearing aids. They have been an essential complement to both my home stereo systems, and my live music listening, for about 10 years now. The technology of hearing aids keeps improving in dramatic ways. And once you've made that leap, hearing differences in equipment (or, for example, in hall acoustics where you listen to live music) becomes exciting; at that point the brain can be trained to help improve the acuity of musical perception. All that comes before any of these discussions about exotic electronic equipment!
Mac Moss : Great point. I was just thinking how much better I can see with my new glasses, but never gave a thought to hearing aids and listening. Thanks. What brand do you recommend?
So happy to see Joe again. He’s my favorite guest you have ever featured. I just love the guy- he’s no nonsense, and I think he has a good perspective on the hobby.
like him too
Was that a Therapy session for audiophiles? :-)
12 step program
It certainly wasn't a dentists gathering
Pretty sure it was a flat earth convention
Fuse direction ?? Fuse burn in ? Audible differences in ethernet cable ? 😂🤣😆😂🤣😆
It's like saying a movie looks better over display port than HDMI.
@@tcv4 It does if it's 8K 60Hz. Then again how many sources are in 8K 60Hz if you don't own an RED or Arri camera :)
@@tcv4 well does a movie look better on DVD or VHS...?!
@@DJ_BROBOT If both come from identical source material then they will look identical. A DVD movie can look better than the VHS release because it has a larger capacity and therefore can hold more information. One Ethernet cable is identical to the same speed Ethernet cable as they are transferring a digital signal of 1's and 0's that either get transmitted and interpreted or do not. There is no mechanism for the content to be influenced in the way analog may be.
I know, weird huh?
Always USE BRAWNDO It's got ELECTROLYTES
Love your videos Steve ! I’m from Germany and new to this passion, and I have to say you give me lots of new input. Keep up the great work
Perhaps there are those who have found a viable use for snake oil. If so, there are instances where even snake oil isn't snake oil. But a $2500 AC cord? No.
What I noticed is that most of these guy’s are around my age and none of them is wearing hearing aids. All of them have some hearing loss. What is NOT snake oil is that ALL of their systems will sound better with proper hearing aids. I was once in denial that I needed them as I’m sure they and you are. This may be your cheapest and best upgrade.
cheapest until you rewire them w/nordost
Its hard to tell. After reading many papers on human hearing and psychoacoustics. The way sound memory works and how the brain processes sound makes it nearly impossible to compare to audio components that perform similarly. This has ALWAYS been proven with double blind testing or even blind testing. Once you know what the gear is it can have an effect on your hearing. Sound is like any other sense in that its personal. I think of it like food, you can't possibly know what something tastes like for another person, our tounges are all a little different and then theres preferences on top of that. Just work towards making a cheeseburger YOU want to eat and can afford.
IowAudio Review Great response.
Go Hawks!
This is probably the best analogy I’ve heard. Hearing differences are like taste differences. Everyone has different preferences.
You know what really gets me? I think what sounds best DEPENDS on the last thing you've listened to. If you're doing A/B/etc. comparisons then your answer could probably change each time depending on in what order you listen to the systems/components. I think it's a little bit like food: you need to be able to "cleanse your palate" so to speak after each audition. Perhaps take some time for the memory of the last system to get out of your head.
@@vagabond197979 It's possible for the same music to sound slightly different each time we listen based on how human memory works. Thats why in blind tests when they don't change anything yet people claim they hear new or different things. We've all experienced this listing to our favorite song over and over on our system or headphones. Look into psudo and psycoacoutics the human brain is easily tricked and is constantly making adjustments to what we hear based on things like first order reflections. Maybe if your truly a trained listener or musician you may be better but most people aren't. Our ears also adjust for higher SPL after a few minutes thats why we keep turning it up. Because of this we lose some dynamic range in our hearing.
Buying gear based on the
"School of popular opinion"
Self imposed snake oil .
Curse the Klipsch RP 600M! I bought a pair based on the hype. And they’re good. Just not as amazing as the hype.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q "Amazing" is relative. You might get away with calling them amazing for what they cost but you're not going to find speakers that sound truly emotionally and musically engaging for the price of a pair of RP 600M speakers. And to get truly amazing sound, you'll also need commensurate components, power conditioning, cables, tweaks, and room treatment. Amazing sound doesn't come cheap.
@@LorenzoNW I couldn't agree more, the room matters so much. As a student I've moved around a bit from rental property to rental property. Man, could I ever hear the difference between different rooms and different speakers positions.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q Back in the early 1980's (no internet) after I got married my wife and I went to an audio store to get a pair of speakers to complete our stereo system for our new house. We listened to ( maybe 6 ) pairs of speakers and amazingly we both pointed to the same pair we thought were the best sounding. They were not the most expensive, I think they were second most expensive. I guess the point I am making is that you have to listen at good "audio" stores which is getting harder to do these days locally.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q Back in the early 1980's ( before the internet ) after I got married my wife and I went to an audio store to get a pair of speakers for our stereo system for our new house. We listened to ( I think 6 ) pairs of speakers and amazingly we both pointed to the same pair that sounded the best to us. They were not the most expensive, I think they were the second most expensive. The point I am making is that you have to go to a good "audio" store and listen which is getting harder to do locally.
We interrupt this program with breaking news. There has been a run on watermelons at all local grocery markets. Witnesses detail older men grabbing melons in twos and walking out the backwoods, ah, backdoors of these establishments. No one knows what has sparked such a buying frenzy of said watermelons, but one customer was followed home and it appears they are being placed upon what appears to be...speaker boxes???
Apparently large firm melons are best.
The principle is called damping. Watermelons have mass.
@@Rendon276 So much so that rumor has it Magico and Wilson offer them as options. $3K/melon, any color.
While stocks last?
Watermelons. Love it! And his point about everything making a DIFFERENCE but not necessarily making IMPROVEMENTS makes a lot of sense to me.
Recently I was thinking about all the factors in a room that people don't talk about - temperature, humidity, light...and wondering how those affect what you hear. And then I thought about a listener's own body and mood - are you tired or hungry or stressed, etc.
victorsixtythree
All things to take into account when making judgements!
IMHO, the two biggest factors are the actual recording of the track and the listener’s mood. Everything else is secondary.
I am a very inexperience audio enthusiast as I haven't had the chance to listen to a lot of equipment. However, I am an electronics engineer as well. I want to have an open mind when approaching this hobby so that I can have surprising experiences and discover new mysteries. With that said, armed with years of study of electronics make believing some claims impossible:
- digital cables/filters/reclockers: bits are bits. There may be some corner cases where cables could make a difference for very poorly designed digital interfaces, but I would rather buy a better designed product than fix one with expensive cables.
- analog/power cables and fuses: nothing magic going on with these; just a matter of conduction. Silver only has about 5-10% better conductivity than copper but costs 100x more. Clearly increasing the diameter of the conductor is a much more reasonable solution.
- gold anything for improving sound: Gold plating is common for fighting corrosion on contacts and improving reliability, but it has worse conductivity than copper so it's not going to help improve sound quality.
- Burn in / long thermal equilibrium time for electrical components: I can believe burn in for acoustic components, but electronics operate within the manufacturer's stated specs from the first moment they're powered. I have never heard anywhere else in the electronics industry where burn in time is even considered, not even in very high precision devices. Along the same lines, I have heard claims that poorly performing equipment will sound different once it reaches thermal equilibrium after days of continuous on-time. Temperature equilibrium takes a matter of minutes to settle, not days. If a design is dependent on a few degrees of temperature, then that means that a sound system could vary with ambient temp like between a winter day or a summer day or even from afternoon to night. Who would want a sound system which performed like that?
Great perspectives from all these people! The gentleman who buys tickets for performances (instead of audio) reminded me that's what our hobby seeks to replicate, so... I can't argue with him.
seeburg10 Any reproduction can never replicate the sound/feeling from a live performance for many reasons. Both have their place. But truly excellent sound does not need to be exorbitant in cost. Paying attention to the speakers, speaker setup and room acoustics are the main factors in great reproduced sound.
Depends on the style of music. If classical, it is very difficult to replicate the scale of the hall in a room. If pop music, a live concert is going to be loud and in mono. I much prefer pop music, so I find high end equipment sounding better than real life. Listening to pop music is like watching a movie. If you took away the post-production in a movie, the movie will look like a home video. ie. Rubbish.
All reproduced sound comes nowhere near to the real thing.
@@edthefirst2859 When it comes to pop music, which goes through the mixing and mastering process, where they apply compression and EQ to prevent instruments from walking over each other, it is hard to say exactly what the real thing is.
I saw a classical concert recently and it surprised me how different the recording was compared to the real thing. The real thing was definitely less clear without any stereo effect whatsoever. It felt like a wall of sound. But there was a physical presence which the recording lacked.
Snake Oil: speaker cable lifters. Easy to test by raising your cables. Never heard any different whether on hard wood, carpet or cement. Expensive interconnects and speaker cables to "me" tend to be tone controls. Those little dots and wood things can't do anything for you except take your money. Super expensive audio gear too. Really, amps that cost as much as a home? Pre amp that cost as much as a car? Speakers will sound different, but worth the cost of a nice home? I admit that these are toys for the wealthy as are most exotic and expensive things.
I remember when I first got started in audio in the early 70's that the "high end" equipment, while expensive, was in reach of my blue collar salary. Not any more.
I stopped "upgrading" well over 20 years ago. The cost of getting something better just didn't make sense economically. And my current "old" system still sounds great.
I had a different experience from you. I heard a very high-end stereo with and without Shunyata Cable Elevators. The noise floor dropped significantly with the Elevators. Of course, close minded people who have never heard a truly high-end stereo with and without them will claim this is another example the placebo effect and demand a double-blind study.
I own a pair of Ultimate interconnects from High Fidelity Cables. Yes, they do make my stereo sound different AND better by dramatically lowering the noise floor and allowing more music to come through. I couldn’t hear any negative coloration and it certainly wasn’t a “hi-fi” type sound I heard. If you’ve never heard what they can do, please don’t leave any insulting remarks.
Same goes for expensive components. There are a lot of over-priced high status brands on the market that in reality don’t sound very good. But there are also some expensive components on the market that will bring tears to your eyes because they really allow the emotional nuances to come through. Three examples that I’ve heard are the Cary CAD-300SEI integrated amplifier, the Cary CAD-805RS mono block amplifiers, and the First Sound Paramount MKIII-S Super Special Edition Statement preamplifier.
Again, most people have never heard audio gear like this so it’s easy for them to make fun of high-end components. Most so-called high-end gear that people are familiar with is mediocre at best. A few weeks ago I was at Best Buy and while I was there, I listened to a pair of giant KEF Blade speakers powered by Classe mono block amplifiers. It must have been at least a $40K system. I was unimpressed, to say the least. So I’m not surprised that there a backlash against high-end audio.
@@LorenzoNW I'm not going to bash or insult. But, I have one question: Wouldn't the double-blind study be a sufficient and empirically sound means of testing the theory? Right. So, if they're so much better, where are the double-blind studies?
I’d be interested in using High Fidelity cables as well as Mosiac cables. I own FMS.
@@techrider2088 I never heard of FMS or Mosaic cables so I can’t comment on them. The Ultimate interconnects from High Fidelity Cables are just magical sounding. But I don’t recommend them for a system that isn’t truly high-end. And by “system”, I’m including components, cables, power conditioning, platforms, and room treatment. I also own one of HFC’s MC-0.5 power conditioners. It does a nice job of reducing noise, even with my existing power conditioner, although I should probably have four of them for the maximum benefit.
@@zizendorf The subject of double-blind tests for stereo systems, cables, components, tweaks, and power conditioners has been discussed and argued over ad infinitum for years, but I’ll assume your question is sincere so I’ll take the time to reply.
First of all, an argument can be made that the people involved in the test need trained ears. Let me explain. Most people who are new audio are immediately impressed by the “wow factor”, that hi-fi sound in which everything is exaggerated. You can hear a pin drop or the sound of a breath or the separation between each string. But what they aren’t listening for is musicality. What they’re hearing in such a system is coloration, which can be very enticing at first but gets really old and fatiguing after a while. What more experienced audiophiles will listen for is if something sounds musically and emotionally engaging, something akin to a real musical experience.
Another problem with double-blind tests for stereo systems is that there are so many things going on in a piece of music that it’s impossible to keep track and remember of everything - attack, decay, dynamics, micro-dynamics, soundstage, and at least a dozen other criteria. To get a good sense of what you’re hearing, you’ll probably want to listen for at least half hour. Our audio memory is very short so when you then interchange cables or components, it can be difficult to near impossible to recall exactly what you heard even a half hour ago.
A third problem is translating a double-blind test into something that’s useable for you. Let’s say a group of trained listeners do a test comparing an Audience frontRow power Chord against a stock power cord, using commensurate high-end components, speakers, cables, platforms, power conditioning, and room treatments. I guarantee you that every listener will prefer the Audience. But what I can’t guarantee is whether or not you’ll hear any improvement on your Denon or Yamaha receiver, disregarding the fact that it would be a ridiculous area to upgrade in such a system. But you get my point. There are so many variables in a system that it’s near impossible to generalize what one piece of gear will sound like in every system. In the case of the Shunyata Cable Elevators, he had previously used other cable lifters that didn’t make any difference. And this was on a very revealing $70K stereo system.
BUT INSTEAD OF INQUIRING ABOUT DOUBLE-BLIND TESTS, MY QUESTION IS THIS: Why not simply listen for yourself and decide with your own ears if you hear a significant improvement or not? I own a Cary CAD-300SEI with NOS tubes. On paper, the amp sucks and there are plenty of cheap solid-state amps that blow it out of the water with much better specs. So why did I buy it? Go listen to a good 300B SET amp and you’ll know for yourself. This isn’t rocket science. I bought a pair of Ultimate interconnects by High Fidelity Cables because of how it sounded in my system, not because of all the scientific gobbledygook surrounding how it works. It totally transformed my system for the better and I don’t need validation from a test to know what I’m hearing.
If you don’t trust your own ears and your own judgement, go with a friend to a stereo shop and ask the dealer to assist you in setting up a double-blind test if you think that will help you make an informed buying decision. I don’t know where you live but my favorite audio shop in the Northwest is The Audio Connection in Seattle. The owner is honest and very knowledgeable. He’ll ask about your listening room and your budget, then set something up for you to listen to without telling you what you should hear.
A double blind test can easily answer the "what is snake oil" question ;)
Yes, but just look at how such tests are always denigrated by everyone from journalists to dealers.
@@josefserf1926 Perhaps they have something to be afraid of.
@@thisisnev They have, indeed.
As many "audiophiles" denigrante double-blind tests because the risk of being proven wrong in their FAITH is frightening.
Double Blind testing has been proven flawed by numerous studies. Plus we all know A B spot testing is inconstant, take music for example how many times first listen is negative 4th listen and you hear it.
@@jamescox4823 So if double-blind testing is so flawed, what's a better scientific alternative?
Snake oil is imagining there is a difference but you can’t hear it in a blinded test...
Whenever you say "Dig it" I think of the film The Warriors "Can you dig it!?" lol
Great episode! Thanks Steve and to the group of diverse audiophiles.
Something sound different doesn't mean it sounds better. You only think it does because of the price tag
People often think different sounds better because of the wow factor. More experienced audiophiles call this a hi-fi sound, where everything sounds exaggerated. That's why many manufacturers add coloration to their components and speakers. Coloration can be very appealing at first but it gets old after a while. And that's also why double-blind studies are flawed and why professional reviewers avoid them. Most people in double-blind studies have no idea what to listen for. And a real reviewer has to listen over time to various kinds of music to properly evaluate audio gear. You're also right about price. I've seen people in audio auditions who were blown away by expensive high-status name brands that sounded mediocre at best.
Yes different is not always better but people so often are just bored of what they have and are enticed by 'different'. This difference might sound good at first but it will most certainly get old too. It's hard to say for sure that something sounds better without testing side by side. Although even that can be flawed. Looking at price tags will most definitely bias people towards the more expensive option. But that's down to our irrational brains not cooperating with us. If you think you're not going to fall for your brains little tricks, you are mistaken and will definitely be fooled by some snake oil eventually. Taking your time to think about it rationally and being critical are your best tools to fight snake oil.
DaSkaterdude97 who is it hurting if someone wants to spend their money on a cable or accessory that sounds good to the buyer’s ears? What do you care what people choose to spend their money on to get a little pleasure in their life? What are you, the other people ‘s finance nazi?
@@edthefirst2859 I never said people shouldn't buy something that does sound good. You must not have read all of my comments on this video. I've actually stated if you enjoy it and can afford it all the more power to you.
The thing is, what sounds better at first might only sound better because it isn't what you hear on a daily basis. Our brains aren't as rational as most people think they are. So just take time to think about what you heard, if possible give it a couple of listens across a few days/weeks then decide whether it's worth it to you. I just don't want to see people regret their purchases. It's happened to me in the past and probably most people here.
It sucks to spend your hard earned money on something that you're not happy with later down the road. Especially if it's not cheap.
DaSkaterdude97 it’s still none of your concern what people choose to spend their money on. Are you also chastising people who spend extra for “craft” beers, when everyone knows they all taste the same?
My experience with the various tweaks to my audiophile satisfaction is proportionally exclusive to the amount of ale and glorious edibles consumed. Cheers.
Great video Steve! I've actually been at rest in my audiophile journey, but this gave me a few ideas think about in the future. I'm currently using the Oppo UDP 205 as my DAC and it was interesting to here the gentleman mention the clear difference in sound improvent of the PS Audio Direct Stream DAC. I'm perfectly fine with the Oppo for the time being (I actually love it!) but I've made a note of this. It was nice to hear varied opinions since we're always wondering!
Notice a trend. The older you get and the bigger your bank account, snake oil all of a sudden isn't anymore.
Wait, I’m getting old and I’m Jewish, where was my invite?
I work at a recording studio (with full analog and digital workflows). My prior job was managing a prepress dept. where I was evaluating color. Perception is a fascinating thing, I feel I have more of a trained eye and ear than most, but the studio owner who also does mixing and mastering hears things that I can hear, but have to be pointed out to me.
I’ve had the biggest improvement through high end speaker cables and I’ve felt the silliest after purchasing pads and ceramic cones to stabilize a player. Is there a difference, perhaps but it’s not enough to justify the price and bothering with.
Wait, "little 'dots' that you put on the wall"?
"Little resonant cups that you place around the room"? 😂
Oh my, it looks like I need to pick up a Hi-Fi magazine again and flip through it for a good laugh! 😂 😂
Reminds me of some Lunatic Fringe stuff I read in Stereophile back in the 1990's.
One fella swore on his mother's grave that placing TWO sheets of toilet paper between his speaker and speaker stand sounded much, much better than ONE sheet of toilet paper! 😂
Another couple of guys swore up and down that placing cans of beans on their speakers made a difference (which, depending on circumstance, could be valid as a simple weight), but what's more: Different kinds of beans made more or less difference in sound quality!
I'm not one to rage about Snake Oil being the downfall of civilization. I have in fact been known to try some unorthodox things myself.
For me, a little informed experimentation & tinkering is fun, and sometimes produces great results.
However, these types of fringe activities I look on mostly as entertainment.
This was a fun video. Thanks Steve!
Nice to hear from all these old well experienced dudes . Thanks mates
Not Snake Oil: DACs are definitely not snake oil in my experience moving from a Dacmagic 100 to a Chord Mojo to a Chord Hugo. Each new purchase made a vast difference almost as much as an upgrade in speakers themselves. I used to think this was snake oil and this changed the way I looked at my Hifi, that realisation as I used to think that it was just all about the speakers alone.
Another point what gives the best outcome for the price. Don’t look past room acoustics. In an untreated room I have gone and spent $300 on materials to build panels that both absorb and diffuse. To get a similar improvement to my listening experience by purchasing high end components alone would have costed thousands upon thousands of dollars. I don’t think it would ever have reached the current level at all in fact as the untreated environment taints the sound too much.
I am now looking at something like an Isotek board to see if cleaning up the power supply has some effect. Would like some commentary if anyone has feedback on these? And is it worth the $1000 or so price tag for an entry level unit?
I’ve had Chord dacs in the past, the last was the qbd76, you should bare in mind the high output voltage that Chord employ. Try a level-matched blind a/b if you want to hear (or not!) the true difference, although this is problematic because it’s possible that the Chord dacs could be overloading the amp’s input. Chord deliberately using such a high output leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
To your question regarding mains treatment, might get rid of clicks and pops if you have shoddy equipment but really shouldn’t make any difference. The power supply in your kit will ‘clean’ the mains supply when it charges the capacitors.
- expensive power cables
- spending thousands on equipment and expecting monumental improvements
- cheap d amplifiers making thousands of watts
- ignoring source quality and room treatment and speaker placement over gear
You have to get the right gear for your listening environment, and not your dream gear because that probably won't fit the room. Oversized speakers can sound worse in the same space than smaller ones. Been to a hi-fi shop in Exeter, UK, and had a chance to listen to some high end stuff. Big Tower speakers £4000+ a piece, and some crazy rig with 4-5 different black boxes with some supposedly awesome source... rig was about £15 000... the room was about 9'-12''x15' maybe I can't remember... and the experience was really weird... didn't feel right... the imaging was disjointed, the whole thing felt dull and lifeless, weak..
While at home, in a 14'x18' room, my matched Pioneer Whiskey Barrel speakers raised to ear level through a £200 amp through a ASUS Xonar STX2 sound card just filled the room, had body, when I was listening to singers I was able to picture them in front of me... and I didn't have to listen to it loudly to get this result...
So the right gear over the best possible gear for your wallet.
Agree with most of this except the cable bit... A cable (interconnect, speaker, or power) acts as a filter because depending on length, geometry, etc it will have difference resistance, capacitance, and inductance. I was particularly surprised to hear (slight but present) differences with power cables. So I think it is really hard to be strict about whether they do or don’t make a difference. However, if anything, the most difference comes from speaker placement and room treatment, for sure.
@@miguelbarrio I applaud you for regularly being a voice of reason in the wildly misinformed world of RUclips comments
What expensive power cables have you actually auditioned and in what audio system? Most people who make claims similar yours have no real experience and are just regurgitating what they've heard from others.
@@LorenzoNW This is my system: goo.gl/66fjxw and the power cables I have auditioned are from Audio Note (~$4k, which is what I currently use in my amp), Audience, Shunyata, and a few others whose brands I don't recall. And frankly, don't be so ignorant to assume people have not listened to these...
Moving speakers away from the wall is something I tried and it definitely works. It does lose bass but, not enough to worry about and the sound is much cleaner.
The largest tall tale that the snake oil salesman peddled was expensive speaker wire. An honest salesman put me onto lamp cable from a hardware store 40 years ago. 30 cents per foot. Nothing can make electric voltage sound better going through copper wire.
Snake oil: high Rez formats
Tweek that works: sandwiching my sub between a 20 lb slab of concrete on bottom and 20 lb bag of rice on top.
makes total sense. Just don't let the hi-fi shop sell you the concrete
@@ar_xiv
Or the rice, they'll call it something fancy and charge $600 a bag
@@ar_xiv lol! The concrete was not so bad but the audiophiles told me to say clear of Chinese rice...... Japanese rice sounds way better!
@@twhalen ya I agree. A well produced recording played back on a nice vinyl or cd system is still as good as it gets. I don't think it will get much better until there is a real breakthrough change in speaker design.....something that is a totally new way to interact with recorded music......until then LP and CD are as good as it gets..... audiophiles will fool themselves with confirmation bias but our ability to hear substantial improvements with high Rez recordings has proven to not pass the test when put through well implemented blindfold tests with the general public.
Pocari Suit
LMAO.... that’s a good one!
I Can end this debate once and for all.. BUY WHATEVER YOU LIKE AND CAN AFFORD.
If you believe saging your room before you play some records helps improve the sound, go ahead. Why should I care?
That’s not the problem. Nobody will discourage you from buying stuff. It’s the constant hype that’s overwhelming. Every week the Audiophiliac reviews something that trumps everything that came before it. It’s maddening.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q The never-ending quest for the perfect system is ... well... never ending. If I were Satan, all audiophiles who find themselves in Hell would be given the perfect system of their dreams and struck with deafness for all eternity.
@@richardgray8593 No, that's not as bad as an eternity of self-imposed torture. You really wanna torture an audiophile? OK. Give them the perfect system of their dreams and wait for them to tire of it. Never let them upgrade or change a single component. You'll have ruined their life-long hobby..
@@mattbonaccio3522 Well said. I think you understand the audiophile subculture better than I do.
The problem is that reading the voodoo audio cultists' views influences noobs to waste money. Many people have an inherent need to help others. Whether it's telling them where to get the best coupons or what liquor store has the best price on Budweiser, they don't like seeing people hurt by wasting their money. Therefore they push back against the voodoo.
this was a real good one steve well all are good but this one was great letting us know what many think about the world of diminishing return every thing in audio makes a difference but is is worth
it to you ?
Fantastic vid, Steve!
The melons are just adding weight to the speakers, and weight can of course help damp vibrations and resonance. The fruitiness is irrelevant.
That’s can be called “mass loading”, and it can affect the sound.
However, it also may change the sound diffraction pattern off the cabinet. Try draping a thick towel over the speaker , not covering the front of course, and cover the front edges of the baffle near the tweeter. It’s not mass loading because it’s a light towel, but in some instances, the sound will change.
No the watermelon has special healing properties, and is healing the speaker, which reduces vibration.
If you use something else, and it has the same effect, it's only because that object also has magic healing properties.
You guys need watermelons?
@@ChadDidNothingWrong No.
@osliverpool
I SAY OLD CHAP!
What were you saying now....?
@@harrybaque5502 lmfao agreed
I'm with Wayne. EVERYONE needs a reality check now and then.
I would love to hear the difference between a $360k turntable, a $450k turntable, and a $10k turntable.
Or let's say you compare a million dollar setup, to a $500k setup, a $60k setup, and a $20k setup.
I simply can't wrap my head around how a turntable or speakers, no matter the construction, is worth a house. It's hard to fathom a piece of equipment providing that much of a sound difference to warrant such a price tag.
I think the ultra absurd high-end, or any gear past the $10k mark should be suspected of being snake oil, even by the fortunate ones who can afford the outrageous gear.
Sidenote: I'm definitely going to Carnegie Hall this year!!
you cannot and I repeat…CANNOT get *better* sound quality past what the physical recording is spitting out. So largely many systems will be bottlenecked by the source(aka the recording and mastering).
hence why “a piano never sounds like a real life piano”. because it’s impossible to get ALL of that sonic information on the recording itself. Audiophiles are spinning their wheels on useless crap or worse, coloring their sound either intentionally or unintentionally due to their ignorance of specs/sound engineering, or trying to achieve that “perfect sound” which largely just simple does not exist.
They will subconsciously color the sound to try and reproduce a particular instrument to find out that other instruments or genres sound like crap because of it…
this hobby is a total dead end. It’s fun to think about. But don’t waste your time and money. Pick up an instrument. train your ear. learn actual music. Stop obsessing over antiquated and sometimes flat out inferior gear.
Hey Joe! Good to see you again!
I second Wayne's POV. Support live music.
I recall in the early '80's the notion that different turntables with identical wow and flutter measurements could sound different, was snake oil, in some circles. Which doesn't mean there is no snake oil! Generally speaking though, the oil that makes the greatest improvement in listening pleasure is hash oil.
This was like a Steve Gutenberg Past-Guests-Audiophile-Extravaganza. Love that Joe
I liberally apply snake oil to all my cables before each listening session.
It doesn't change the sound of my system, but my hands are much softer!
'Directional fuses' - 'burn in' jesus christ...
Audio equipment does burn in, I'm more concerned about all the guys who would have trouble hearing someone calling their name that state they can hear a difference in a power cable. Guess what, power cables connect to your power outlet. And what powers the outlet? Basically straightened coat hangers in your fucking wall.
@@tinydiccbandito4953 At least they are copper coat hangers...
@@jamezors667 No More Wire Hangers!
Expensive power cables and interconnects together with significant quality in amp and preamps have made my kef 104.2 speakers sound very comparable to new equipment. Sure the highs would be better with new tweeters but I love the sound from the 1990s and upgrades to this level of quality in the cables made a significant difference.
That’s right! Great to hear. Try a large isolation transformer.
Wasssssup Joe! I want that turntable your building . You the man!
Spending money on tickets instead of gear. FANTASTIC advice.
There are many things that can help a system that can be explained and should not be expensive but audio marketers sell them at outrageous prices so they become snake oil. Cable risers that cost hundreds to thousands of dollars can be replaced by scrap pieces of wood. Mysterious rocks that sit on top of speakers and other equipment can be replaced by scrap pieces of heavy steel. Most of the time these snake oil items may change the sound but does not make it better.
The guys who pointed out that different is not necessarily better nailed it. Snake oil - indeed, the whole modern hi-fi industry - is predicated on the strongly-held (and, ultimately, narcissistic) belief that more money automatically equals better.
Anyone ever wondered why no reviewer ever puts modern audio equipment up against vintage gear from circa 1980? Simple: because it would bust open the modern 'audiophile' industry for the myth factory that it is.
Don't believe me? Go out and buy a well cared-for vintage Japanese amp for $100 or less. Avoid collector fodder like Pioneer and Marantz - they're overpriced. Don't bother changing out all the capacitors (a peculiarly American snake oil myth), just wire it into your system, listen and ask yourself honestly: although it may or may not sound different, does it actually sound worse?
Haters, form an orderly queue. If you've taken the challenge, then I will listen respectfully.
So true!🤗😉😇🤫
Does Steve Guttenberg ever read any of the comments here? *Always a good topic and subject in a practical way within thorough sound/audiophile. Nice to see mature people share their experiences. Thanks.*
Rule #1 - form follow functions. Signal cables should be well insulated, speaker cables should be adequate to carry the current to the speakers. Same goes with power cables.
Rule #2 - diminishing return. Improvements are the most obvious when better cables replacing crappy cables (see rule #1). Once it goes to a certain performance level, any more expensive cables will/may only give you minimal improvements, if any, and you may not notice it.
Rule #3 - focus on the weakest links. Why spend $10,000 on a power cable when your wall sockets are connected to the service panel on $2 per feet #16 power wire? Are there any other appliances sharing the same power circuit? What about your neighbors? Are they running power tools? Same goes with signal cables. Inside the power amp, the wires coming out of the transistors are very thin. Probably 10 times thinner than your speaker cable. What can you do about it?
$2 a foot? Pennies a metre..
Burn-in, super high-res audio, hi-fi transport, thousands of dollars DACs, super expensive speaker cables.
Burn-in actually made a notable difference on my Klipsch RP 600M. Out of the box they weren’t impressive at all. Then they sounded better after 2 months of use.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q your brain just adapted )
Sergey Veselik Maybe there’s some of that too.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q That can be easily tested by buying a pair of new 600m and blind testing them against a pair of "broken in" ones.
Is there any youtube video out there of someone doing this?
Hey, Mr. Steve, is there any interested in TOPPING D90 DAC for review? we're waiting for your reply. Thanks in advance.
Gary, I greened my cds too. Most important bit about interconnects is the metal too metal contact at the junction, soldering would be a good impractical idea, or looking at volume controls, carbon pots are the worst, sliders even more so. A stepped volume control is a good idea, I have used a "cermet" seperate channel pre amp control years ago and the difference from carbon pot was astronomical! Much tighter and direct sound. (Magnapans, esl57s, Transcriptors Transcriber)
Agree about the live concert performances. Every time I hear the orchestra tuning up at the start of a concert I get a rush of excitement.
Any body remember the ''Magic clock'' from the mid 80's? Some one claimed a Radio Shack LED clock that sold for a few bucks when plugged in to the same circuit as your audio system would improve the sound. Shortly thereafter a ''special'' modded clock was introduced for 10 times the original price. LOL
Yep there is a PS Audio little LED plug-in thing that supposedly does the same thing. Never tried it though. Seems like snake oil but who knows ?
@@mvallely79 Tice, is the correct spelling. George Tice.
I'm 61 and I have tinnitus, so pretty much everything above 9kHz is snake oil to me. Ha!
I think 90% of the guys in this video would be the same
I have some tinnitus and still want better sounding equipment. I know it's silly on some level but I enjoy better sound and normally have no problem ignoring the ringing.
Nice one
Crazy prayingmantis
I agree but will up that percentage to 100%.
Mine drops off at about 10khz.😞 Higher frequencies are nonexistent to me. But I still like Jack Daniels and a good cigar from time to time. 😉👍
Instructions unclear. My cable now stuck in watermelon...
I really wish I could party with you guys in NY but I am in Michigan. Looking forward to seeing you again at Axpona 2020 Steve!
Hi definition recordings. I cannot hear the difference between CD and high definition recordings and I have a relatively resolving system.
I hear the difference easily on my system.
Most ppl can't hear any difference between cd quality and hi res. And when using tidal for example, i would say 50% of tidals hi res is bullshit. They are not hi res. Why? Becouse many of the hi res songs are recorded in the 40s-60s. They did not hsve that tec in those days. If its not recorded in hi res from the mic to the end, its not hi res. Just a big scam. Songs today are most likely to be hi res, becouse we have that tec today. Labeling hi res on a cd dosnt make it hi res.
Are we acctually able to hear
hi Res audio in its entirety, presuming our speakers had the range in the first place.
@@chriss881000 I agree. proper Hi Res is 24/96 recorded, mixed and mastered.
@@dorkvader5332 yes. I dont get how many tidals can be hi res. Just a label i guess. But it is the same price for tidals cd and hi res quality so no actual scam from their side. Just alittle bit of lying;)
I have my turntable on a 30 plus pound slab of (man made) "granite". That makes an audible difference. I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe it's more accurate. Who knows?
I read a goofy article in Stereophile a few years ago that recommended putting little boxes of BBs on top of the equipment.
Makes as much difference as having a yellow sign in the room.
try green magic marker on a yellow sign before you knock it
Power filter and ac cable upgrades def made the quiet quieter
I think some people may confuse the law of diminishing returns for snake oil.
So true!
But some of the cable nonsense is just outright false. That then IS snake oil.
@@FatterTony I haven't personally heard cables making significant difference.
I have the suspicion that there is impedance differences when it comes to speaker wire.
@Fat Rat You're over here too.
you need to go back under your bridge saw bum hanging around there he's going to take your spot. 🤭
there is something called auto-suggestion and the price plays a big role in it. if you are shown speakers that cost 100K, you will automatically think they are excellent and divine. and of course, it also relates to an status symbol and since most people are such attention whores, well, that influence them even more. there is money to be extracted and companies fully know how to do it by adding some flux capacitors and zeros to the price
Thank you so much for telling me what I'm thinking, The Thought Police.
Please follow me around from now on, continuously telling me what I'm thinking next, so I won't be so dreadfully confused anymore.
I'm sure a large price tag does very well entice some, but you can't possibly lay that blanket statement on everyone out there and reasonably expect it to stick.
Many years ago, I was invited to a fellow audiophile's house to hear his system. I do not recall what components he had, except that they were very expensive, and that he had the innards professionally customized with upgraded parts (better capacitors and the like), and that he had a mammoth pair of Dunlavey speakers.
I was very much looking forward to hearing a fantastic sounding system.
Imagine my disappointment when the music played, to find that the only thing notable about this very expensive, custom system, was that it could play uncomfortably LOUD.
I actually preferred the sound of my little no-fi system at the time, which did have good speakers, but which wasn't even set up correctly yet.
Partially agree. Most High performance components do increase measurable performance - but the question is does the high performance provide dollar-to-sonics ROI.. (that is subjective)
look at the high performance auto industry - a Ferrari is undoubtably and objectively a better car on a racetrack than all mid range commuter cars - but a Toyota Camry is a better car for commuting than the Ferrari ... which is better?
@@markscott7583 you cannot compare it with cars. if we focus on one feature, let's say hp, you do get a lot more in a ferrari but it is still overpriced to make it exclusive. in the case of speakers, the only thing offered is sound quality. what do you get for your 100K. not much more if anything. maybe some "exotic" woods and maybe metals. in terms of sound. not much or probably not anything. actually you do get a lot, a lot of snake oil. premium exclusive snake oil that is. the same goes for the amplifiers.
This is very entertaining. It definitely takes all kinds...
My favorite snake oil gadget was supposed to make CDs sound better by spinning them over a magnet before you play them.
nice
"You like roses and kisses and pretty men to tell you
All those pretty lies, pretty lies
When you gonna realize they're only pretty lies
Only pretty lies, just pretty lies" Joni Mitchell.
Hey Steve, Thanks for getting out of your apartment.
Wayne’s comment about a live music event in a concert hall is to the point. A recording of music played on the best system .....at best 30% of what you hear and experience in a concert hall.
That was awesome.
Reminds me of one of those big foot or ufo documentaries
Music streamers are snake oil they are just computers
Harry Baque in
Yes! I don't see the point of buying one.
and they will likely go obsolete as well
Nah! I’m very happy with my Yamaha RN 402 amp which has an integrated streamer. I basically got the amp for « free » with the purchase of my Klipsch RP 600M speakers. As streamers get cheaper, they won’t be considered snake oil anymore. Besides, setting up a Raspberry Pi for streaming is a pain.
I don’t stream much, but I can’t believe that music from Tidal, etc. can make its way through the whole freaking internet in apparently bit-perfect shape and then be improved by a 12 inch ethernet or USB cable made of whatever
We love you Joe. The voice of common sense.
This subject did not come too early. Great video again. I love the interviews with those guys. I replaced my normal good plastic covered shielded cables (250 dollars), with some used Anti Cables I came across on the net. You know the solid copper ones with just some red laquer on. I don't own a super audio equipment. Just a ten year old McIntosh MA7000 and a pair of the new Klipsch Fortes 3 and a Yamaha CD S 1000. The difference was impressive. First: Better soundstage. Wow! Second: Slightly better, puchier and deeper bass-sound. Finally slightly clearer sound with subtle details I had't been hearing before. Now for 130 bucks second-hand for both interconnects and speaker cables, I would say that is a bargain. Didn't pay anybody's new Porsche around here. And they weren't even top level cables. Taking into account that I am 64 year old with reduced hearing, and being the weakest point in my soundsystem, I will recommend people to buy used Anti-Cables and try them out. It's system-dependant of course. There is not a quick fix here. It might not work for you. But it's your hobby, it's not religion!
Bettye Lavette : Let me down easy. Live concert in London. I turned off the light and did a proper pitchdarklistening. She was on the floor in front of me... Keb Mo: You got to move. Oh yes ! The Fortes behaved like I've been waiting for. Forward leaning party speakers! Fun-factor all the way.
But the records have to be good, as always...
All of these assumptions could simply be recorded in the space and A/B analysed to know and finally settle for sure. Seems both the industry and the audiophile are more comfortable Not knowing - for this reason perhaps They are both the snake oil in the equation.
I think it is all about what you are willing to spend to get the incremental improvements... The law of diminishing returns is ALIVE and WELL in high end audio...
bingo
Interesting to hear these gentlemen give their opinions.
Joe knows best! Please do a follow up on Joe. ...btw i would love to be at 'what that was" and quietly sit in the background listening and absorbing everything that was told and shared.
Ethernet is TCP/IP, an exact combination of 0s and 1s with a verification request sent with every packet. If that exact digital combination of 0s and 1s does not arrive, the packet is re sent. Can anyone explain how this possibly affects the audio output other than a chronological impact (stuttering) caused by a faulty or un shielded cable.
It is a digital interconnect it either arrives with 100% integrity or not at all, in which case a replacement is requested.
Pretty sure this is all happening at a staggeringly faster rate than even the highest bit rate audio available.
It's funny, the guys with engineering backgrounds mention the cables as snake oil, it's a bit like science vs religion. Society was scare mongered into believing there would be terrible consequences for not behaving. People STILL believe the religious nonsense even now!
To the guy that said ethernet cables.....🤦♂️ What was he using first? cat 5 CCA? 2 pair ethernet running in a high voltage electrical cable tray? If not any of the above he's talking complete crap -
@@MickTimmy I'm entitled to say whatever I want, especially if i think that it is a valid example of how people believe things that science continually dismisses. I have no desire to go off on a tangent from there though as it was simply a comparative example. Physics is what it is and so is digital data. For example, the word 01000100 01001001 01000011 01001011 cannot have any brightness or detail added or taken from it. It will still arrive as 01000100 01001001 01000011 01001011
A correctly working ethernet cable will sound the same as an expensive snake oil one, it can't not. The only way these companies could retain any integrity would for them to supply a known working standard cable with the expensive one for the user to try first, any data streaming issues will be fixed by WORKING components, not exotic cables.
@@StephenBrennanGuitar 👈🍺
I thought the whole is supposed to be the timing impact of needing to make additional requests. And no, I'm not about to spend money on upgrading any network stuff even though I run music through it.
@@MickTimmy Dude, I'm not convinced that you realise how hypocritical you're being. If you want to go there then fine, yes it is in bad taste so let's hope these comments don't get seen by anyone that is offended by them. If you'd simply said you don't agree, we could have left it there but a rant deserves a rebuttal.
If 'god' created the universe, he also created Parasitoid wasps yes? A wasp that injects its eggs into other insects; the larvae proceed to eat the host from the inside out until it suffers an agonising slow death. Is 'god' a psychopath? Christian's say 'god' creates scenarios to test us, to test how we deal with things. So a child being raped by a paedophile that 'god' created is a test? That suffering and torture is a test? Is 'god' a psychopath? Science does not coexist with religion, people with religious beliefs can indeed practice science but there are no blurred lines between what is fact and the nonsense you believe in your cults, its wholly inappropriate to think 'things happen for a reason' Would you still believe in a God if you watched a terrorist murder your family? What would your reasoning be then?
I stand by my original analogy as it was to illustrate how people can truly believe something of utter nonsense if someone else convinces them it's true. 01101 is 01101, end of. To believe it made a difference has done nothing but highlight a FAULT in the system in question, if in fact it made any difference at all anyway, we have words like 'placebo' in our language for a reason.
1:31Dude spilled snake oil on his shirt. Thats going to stain.
Too True!!!!! I didn't hear a thing he said cuz that stain was yelling louder than he waa.
2nd speaker, is that snake oil on your shirt and if so does it sound better?
Great video