Something missing from these headset reviews is driving games. Sitting, minimal tracking and no controller games. Would like to see some love to sim racers.
they did mention its good for racing games and Elite because of no controllers needed. about 20 mins in... I have vive and play Assetto Corsa and Pcars1+2 Raceroom ETS2 ATS and elite so i want one of these HMD's ! rtx2080 :)
i reckon. i thought sim racers would make up the majority of vr users... i enjoy the odd vr game, especially games like onward, but mostly i play without controllers, using a wheel for sim racing.. its honestly (in my opinion) the best use case for vr. my lenovo explorer is great for sim racing. dirt rally, project cars 2, assetto corsa.. nothing compares to sitting in a real (virtual) car, using a real (gaming) wheel and real (gaming) pedals and real (gaming) H shiftier while versing real people online, around real tracks. learning each corner and braking point and dodging other drivers mistakes as they spin etc... its awesome fun. and dirt rally vr.. that has to be the best wheel game ever made, along with the best vr game ever made in one package..
This sounds perfect for people who want a PC based headset but aren't necessarily needing amazing controllers. Very excited to see you guys talk about the resolution.
@@Luki82 yes plenty of dcs folks will be testing it on day 1. I have a Lenovo explorer now 1440 x 1440 LCD which is fine except for reading fine print and spotting distant targets
Great review, however...The next time you do VR headset reviews and screen shots through the lenses could you possibly put up an actual web page on BigScreen or something. Nobody I have found doing reviews does it. Is there a reason? WMR desktop in the Cliffhouse? How about watching a youtube video (this one) or at least a picture of a video playing. There are more things in VR than just games (I do like games) but I think it would have been helpful to see that.
I personally would go for the index, for racing games, the 120-144 hertz screen will be amazing. Plus overall the standing will be a better experience. However if you want the wireless experience from the quest then I would say go for both
28:48 Hot damn, an asymmetric escape room with one person in AR/VR looking at like the "future" of the room and another person in the room looking at the "past/present" would be super cool. You would have to work together to figure out how to stop some calamity or something and when stuff in the room is changed the AR/VR would update to show the future with that taken into account...
It is possible to use Steam controller dongles with re-flashed firmware to connect Wands or Knuckles to, and use them with this, no SteamVR headset required. Still need base stations though.
No mention on the software IPD?? I want to love the reverb but I'm near the max of the IPD range and worry its going to suck for us with wide or narrow IPD.
You should wait for a WMR HMD with this res but a mechanical IPD then. This headset also strives for comfort and mechanic IPD adjustments add significant weight to the front of the HMD.
Glad the G2 will have a manual IPD. Especially as my eyes are super close together at like 59mm for the headset to not be blurry. Might even upgrade to it from the Oculus CV1 if the tracking and controllers are good.
@Gary Anderson watch swevivers video on setting up Xplane 11 for VR and optimising it's about 40mins long but it's really good to get your foot in the door
Hi Tested! Great review, as usual! I'm really interested in this headset, nor really for gaming (because of the performance it's demanding) but for media consumption (Virtual Desktop, basically). Hopefully the price will quickly be cut down.
You guys should Frankenstein all the current VR technology to make the ultimate VR headset just to see what that would be like. It seems like everything has something missing that would make it great.
@Legion True, I don't think I will notice that much nor mura or anything. I just cannot stand those damn pixels. Oculus Quest is okay qua device however the pixels are rather big that one is a no-go. I want to go for a reverb but those controllers are shit, I had a wmr before.
Great test guys, really helpfull- I was considering Hp over Oculus Rift S and you helped me to make a right decision. I have a NVidia 1080 and I think that Hp is too demanding for it in its full resolution so this video helped me a lot. Thanks!!
The other companies are holding their tech back because higher specs are more demanding. As it is today, the Reverb can only be run on less than 5% sold computers, meaning it's basically *unusable* for most people. Even with a 1080, it can't run at full FPS without tuning down the resolution! And even for those who _can_ run this headset, the power it uses is power they won't use for the game itself. Basically, the whole issue comes from the fact that VR requires too much power (and the higher the specs, the more power it demands). As Tested said: the Reverb is a great glimpse of the future of VR. For the next generation, it should definitely be the standard!
@@Dante02d12 This is not really true. You can run at less than native res and still benefit from the better panels because you'll have less SDE and more readable text. Should someone still holding onto a minspec gtx970 get this? Probably not but even a gtx1070 would be good enough and maybe only need to downsample a small amount
@@hellyeahreactions millions of people buy a 1000 dollars phone every year. There is no reason to race to the bottom. Unless you are delusional like facebook that vr will get to 1 billion people
@@brendanr2119 Low resolution image on higher resolution panel is _not_ better than low resolution image on low res' panel. It's a common misconception ^^. Just do that experience: display HD content (ex: any DVD) on a FHD monitor, you'll see it is _worse_ than displaying same HD content on a _HD_ monitor. You'll see it is more burry. Getting a better _screen_ resolution will only make the _lack_ of image resolution more obvious. Norm is right when he says downsampling is not an option. Although, in the case of VR, it is an option *if the screendoor effect **_really_** bothers you.* In that case, well yeah, getting this headset and downsampling might be worth it ^^. But in terms of _visual quality_ if we don't count the SDE, it is worse.
Really a shame that all the WMR headsets seem to be committed to the worst VR controllers. Would be great if they’d go for a Quest/Rift S Touch design, since that’d work well with their inside out tracking. Also, they need to move up to 4-5 cameras for tracking. The resolution seems nice though. If they fixed those other problems they’d be ahead of Oculus.
I mean technically you could connect knuckles with Bluetooth for buttons and touch inputs and put a WMR tracking ring on top. Or you could do what some did with rift, using external lighthouses with knuckles and using a program to make the rift tracking track only the head and the lighthouses track knuckles.
@@alexasbagel True, but the problem is you end out spending as much money as you would buying the Index with lighthouses and controllers. (so now maybe that is a better option lol). I am going back to Nintendo Virtualboy. Ahh the red and blue lights. lol
A sim racers dream and a seated slam dunk. It's purpose built and I like that, it's not a room scale native VR power house like the Index, it's meant to be good at comfort by lack of weight and high resolution. Now if only HP could stock them in places, I think they got caught off-guard with the demand.
Great review guys you are always the best imho :) I am an Oculus Rift owner enthusiast about the efficiency and comfort of use of the touch controllers which are the best out there. Would it hurt a real lot to get the HP reverb tracking wise ? I mean I am very attracted by the high res but at the same time, as you can imagine, I would rather not spend 600 dollars if my vr experience would worsen because of the crappy wmr controllers. I play very competitively games like Pavlov, Onward and Contractors. I look forward to your a answer thanks in advance!
every headset should have foveated rendering... the smaller the sweet spot the more it should have it... we dont have eye tracking yet, ok. so lets just render the part inside the sweet spot at 100%, then outside that at a much lower resolution.. i mean, we cant see it anyway. i dont understand why this wasnt implemented right from the get go. it would slower the cost of getting into vr, lower the hardware requirements, or allow people with better hardware to turn settings higher, use more ss etc.i just truly dont understand it. ive played one or two games that have the option, but not customizable enough. ALL games should have the option, whether its implemented per game by devs, or by steam vr, or by the headset manufacturers, it should be a thing and it makes no sense to me that its not.
The question to me is, which would you choose to lose first, your eyes or your hands. Sure it shouldn't be the kind of decision we have to make but if you asked me that question, I'm probably going to say I'd rather lose my hands. I am biased though I can't meaningfully get full room VR with anything other than inside out. I'm not changing my whole office just to set up something I use recreationally sometimes.
Windows button on WMR opens Mixed Reality Overlay. You know, the one that has 'home' icon, volume and such. It doesn't do anything other than that, doesn't close, doesn't do anything until you select anything there. See, Stick click opens Steam Dashboard overlay, and Windows key opens Windows Dashboard overlay. Also WMR home (cliffhouse) allows to use steamvr games directly. It's not that bad and clunky, it's definitely functional. Sure it's no Vive, but for steamvr it's about as clunky as Rift.
This would be great if not for the bad controllers. Looks like the ideal sim headset for driving/flight sims though. That said the colours and black levels in your comparison pics were quite worrying.
The thing where pressing windows boots you out immediately has been fixed, along with many other software based complaints. You just need to update windows. If you go to windows insider builds you can even pull up floating app windows inside SteamVR, just like you do in Cliff House. It's still not as good as Oculus dash, but it's better than SteamVR.
Hi great review about the Reverb , out of curiosity please let us know what your individual ipd's are , I would buy one of these but I have 6.8 ipd which is a bit too wide for a decent experience in most all WMR headsets , Thanks
this video as well as other recent comparison 'through the lens' videos the S black levels look even sometimes better than OLED models. Even these guys implied the S black levels are the best so far for LCD.
Pressing the Windows button on Mixed Reality controllers does NOT take you out of the game. This was changed several months ago with a Windows update. It now brings up a small dashboard with controls to let you take a screenshot, record a video, open the Mixed Reality Home (which WILL close your game) or activate the flashlight. Maybe you should make sure you're using the latest version of the software next time you review a product.
On the topic of sweet spot and foveated-rendering: If the Reverb has clarity issues on the edges due to the lens design, HP could employ fixed -foveated-rendering like the Go does. Not seeing how much quality is lost due to the lenses myself, i can't say how much could be gained here, but it is an optimization that would help before we get eye-tracking headsets.
Will have to wait for through the lens comparison between this and the Index. Perhaps the reduced number of pixels isn’t as drastic and with faster panels and wider view might still be better to go for the index for flying and racing.
Callsign Vega that is true, but perhaps the trade off with the fast panels might make it comparable at least when it comes to having to make a choice. I gotta admit, I do sometimes realize after I play my head feels a bit drowsy... foggy almost, now I wonder if that is because my eyes are trying to focus the whole time or because my world is “refreshing” at only 90hz
So I have a pc that meets the requirements for the oculus s but my pc is in a horrible area to use vr. It’s a very small space with virtually no room to move around. I want to dip my feet into vr and although I have a pc that meets the requirements I still don’t know which headset I should pick up the rift s or the quest. What would you recommend I get? The quest has a lot less power but I can use it in a room with ample room to move but I have a pc that can use the s but with virtually no room at all to move.
Reverb for simming, Index for big room VR gaming, Quest for on-the-go. PCVR is obviously going to be the better VR experience. So ask yourself if you are going to commit lots of time in VR at home or you would use on-the-go? Would you want to play sit-down games or want the full vr games experience?
what is you thought for someone with a IPD of 59? I don't care about FOV, tracking as I only play seated sims. The IPD is important for clarity/focus on gauges
I want it too but it seems that we'll have to wait a while for it. In the meantime I'll get the Reverb and hope that i'll get used with the controllers.
@@jordyx Its unbelievable why they didnt still make such headset with high resolution. The VR Community is usually not about kids with no or bad Computers but mostly about many Adults that have good computers for such good headsets and high demanding. I really want a photo realistic hmd with high fov that can be used for at least 2 years without update.
Idk where they get the performance drops from using >100% resolution on a 1080, my RTX 2070 runs my Oddysey+ perfectly, and that's with SteamVR DEFAULTING to well above what either of them used. It's an absolutely wonderful experience, and I have no regrets.
Every new VR or AR device; Tested: 'A taste of the future.' I know things dont change overnight but it seems like VR and AR will never be close to real in my lifetime.
when you say stereoscopic coverage is reduced in these new HMD. and you say its noticeable and you need to adjust to it. do you mean 3d effect is lost outside the sweet spot? because of the reduced coverage? as objects move to the left or right periphery? I fly helicopters and need my spatial awareness...
If HP would have went with Lighthouse tracking, I'd be looking at this instead of waiting for the Index that may take over a year before I see it in Canada.
The HP reverb seems to have pushed the resolution to a level where I would actually consider VR to be "good enough" to invest in. I might not buy the Reverb, due to currently having too old hardware and too big economic limitations to be able to upgrade to something which will comfortably run it - but within a few years, as the PC hardware becomes more powerful and available to the more average customer, I most definitely will invest in something seeing how the resolutions are finally being pushed.
@@pumpuppthevolume Pavlov, War Dust are a complete mess to play with WMR, button mapping is a nightmare and always lose tracking when you aim gun down sights near the face.
@@pumpuppthevolume i am saying that Reverb is exactly PERFECT for me as i use VR only for driving and flying, seated experience. But shooters in particular work much better with Oculus or Vive, just an observation from my personal experience as i had Oculus and then i had Odyssey+, both sold, next is Reverb 99%.
@@viktorianas sure.... I can just imagine how people get the idea that the controllers are terrible.... when they do a perfectly good job in most situations
they said they could feel the reprojection/timewarp/space warp etc kick in.... but this is wmr... it only has beta reprojection, and its off by default. you have to edit a config file to set it to 'auto' or permanently on... unless its been updated since i last checked?
I might be the minority. But I find the controllers for the WMR to be the easiest to use and most comfortable for me. They fit my hands well, they are balanced, and it it easy for me to go from d pad to joy stick.
what are the black levels like in Elite? On pure black screens is it a light grey like the other WMD LCD headsets? Also, heat levels - does the headset warm up or does it remain cold like the PSVR?
Is it true the cables for these headsets break easily? I have read horror stories about HP's poor customer support woth regards to replacing the cables
how are the colors versus the rift s en the blacks on the hp reverd because it look bad on the rift s and i preorder min hp reverd am not sure some say blacks are good ?? wat to believe now?
Coming from suffering PSVR owner, tracking (in general) does matter, because in PSVR you can’t drive for 5 mins without significant drifting to the left. Don’t care for room scale tracking, but tracking in general is important. Btw judging from many reviews of many different helmets, PSVR is by far the shittiest for racing.
For sim racers, I suspect the Index would be the better choice due to the 120hz/144hz modes. The extra resolution is nice, but for racing, the extra frames and lower latency is probably nicer.
Valve Index is 2880x1600 total (pointing out since for Oculus S they gave the both eye's number: (2560x1440)). That puts Index at around 25% more pixels than Rift S, and 50% more sub pixels than Vive Pro/Oculus Quest. Reverb is crazy, about 150% more pixels than Oculus S! 18:45 Throwing being 90 degrees off sounds like a bug on Rec Room's side, I haven't seen that elsewhere. Unless it was something that only happened when coming from outside of tracking back into it or something (could test that with soft throws with hand always from within tracked area). 19:23 This shouldn't have happened, there was a WMR update months ago that makes the button pull up a menu rather than take you back directly to Windows Home. Maybe he also selected the wrong item from that menu after opening it by accident?
@@scoobysnacks209 Yes. 100%. Look at how VR works. You can even use the PSVR and Pimax 8k as perfect examples. Only PPD, FOV, lens, and display tech are what makes a clear picture.
@@brianfist I`m personally interested in the HP Reverb Headset, because of the High Resolution. Im not so focused on wide controller tracking. I have a Lenovo Explorer and i don`t have a problem that WMR Headset loses Track on Controllers if they are out of View. But maybe for me its the small FOV of the HP Reverb that is not suitable for me.
Currently got Vive for roomscale and Odyssey for flight sims... just as I thought getting the Quest and Index is expensive enough, they go ahead and release this so I will have to try to upgrade the Odyssey with this...
If you don't use knuckles or roomscale, the Index is just $650 for the headset and one base station. Though, since you have a Vive, you only need an Index at $500 which is cheaper than buying the Reverb.
has only one clicked on how much better the rift s is than the old rift. i think they will stop using oled panels. the HP Reverbs controllers are a deal breaker for me.
As a WMR owner, I will say that the controllers are more comfortable than they are saying. However, it is currently the worst VR controllers I have used. Ps. I have bigger hands, so that may be a reason why they are comfortable for me.
as a current wmr user, the controller is better than the vive wands in terms of features but tracking and ergonomics aren't great and the wrist bands are a joke
If I could use Valve's lighthouse tracking and controllers with this, then I'd cancel my Index pre-order hmd. 😂 Not to mention that the system requirements for this resolution is insanely steep. If all you play is cockpit games, I think you'll be happy with this headset.
You can. You will need the controllers, lighthouses, two steam BT dongles, and 3rd party software to get it all to work. It's not worth the money to do so, and the work to get everything set up correctly is a major pain.
Can someone *please* tell me if it would be viable to work inside this HMD, in particular programming in an IDE? I keep hearing that for all other HMDs, the clarity is just not there, yet with the HP Reverb, I keep hearing how amazing the clarity is. I'm a programmer, and my dream would be to essentially get rid of my multi-monitor setup on my desk and just use a headset to program in VR. It would be so awesome to have multiple virtual monitors and work in different virtual locations.
Wish you would comment on the perceived field of view as compared to other headsets as this is more of something I would look forward too , I’m tired of the goggles feel and as a result I’m leaning toward the valve index for the extra field of view . Not sure why you would not cover this 🤔
What I don't understand is why you are not also using a RTX 2080 Ti to test if the "best" consumer graphics card can handle the HP everb weill? I mean you guys are a review channel with 4mio subscribers so having a RTX 2080 Ti even if it costs 1000$ should not be an issue...
@@drivinginmorocco4706 I am not saying they should only do it with a RTX 2080 Ti. What I say is that they should also test it with a RTX 2080 Ti to give the information if the maximum graphic card for conusmers can handle the HP Reverb on decend settings...
Something missing from these headset reviews is driving games. Sitting, minimal tracking and no controller games. Would like to see some love to sim racers.
they did mention its good for racing games and Elite because of no controllers needed. about 20 mins in...
I have vive and play Assetto Corsa and Pcars1+2 Raceroom ETS2 ATS and elite so i want one of these HMD's ! rtx2080 :)
i reckon. i thought sim racers would make up the majority of vr users... i enjoy the odd vr game, especially games like onward, but mostly i play without controllers, using a wheel for sim racing.. its honestly (in my opinion) the best use case for vr. my lenovo explorer is great for sim racing. dirt rally, project cars 2, assetto corsa.. nothing compares to sitting in a real (virtual) car, using a real (gaming) wheel and real (gaming) pedals and real (gaming) H shiftier while versing real people online, around real tracks. learning each corner and braking point and dodging other drivers mistakes as they spin etc... its awesome fun. and dirt rally vr.. that has to be the best wheel game ever made, along with the best vr game ever made in one package..
Yeah, especially since this looks perfect for sim lovers, due to the bad controllers.
Yah. I have played about 700 hours with my rift. I haven't even paired my controllers
@@Ruojis that's a bit extreme ;-)
I've used my controllers, but not for about three weeks. I've just been vr Sim racing
Thumbs up for not having any oculus controller bouncing around.
Great review guys, as always.
the color grading seems quite off
And here i am going bananas fixing my tv settings.
@@richardjavier7236 lol
@@richardjavier7236 It feels like they used a trump filter where everyones orange
That was also the first thing I noticed that it looks oversaturated by like 25% or so
just adjust it to your liking right? or is it not adjustable
You guys are such good tech reviewers! Great video!
This sounds perfect for people who want a PC based headset but aren't necessarily needing amazing controllers. Very excited to see you guys talk about the resolution.
Did you test it with DCS World? A few thousand of us are wondering. :-)
It should make DCS and other sims look really good if you have the horse power to run it.
I would pass on that one...bad blacks and small sweet spot...it will get annoying fast. Also 4K will kill FPS in DCS.
@@Luki82 vr in dcs is getting a 50% improvement in May release.
@@secoda4074 let's wait and see...I'm waiting for Vulkan. I learned one thing...i will never again by HMD with baad panels and sloppy optics.
@@Luki82 yes plenty of dcs folks will be testing it on day 1. I have a Lenovo explorer now 1440 x 1440 LCD which is fine except for reading fine print and spotting distant targets
Your reviews lately have been so good. Thanks for the expertise in action guys []°
Sounds awesome! A little disappointed tho that the Reverb wasn't tested in a huge flightsim as DCS :(
In case you're not yet aware, check through the lens pictures in the review at MRTV RUclips channel. Cheers
These guys aren't flight simmers which is where this vr should shine.
check out MRTV.CO see screen shots of DCS and Xplane 11
I think 2020 might be the year to finally take the VR dive.
I think i'll stick with the Valve Index.
good luck getting one. not that reverb isn't delayed 2 months lol.
Mr. Vic what? He wasn’t flexing in any way...
Great review, however...The next time you do VR headset reviews and screen shots through the lenses could you possibly put up an actual web page on BigScreen or something. Nobody I have found doing reviews does it. Is there a reason? WMR desktop in the Cliffhouse? How about watching a youtube video (this one) or at least a picture of a video playing. There are more things in VR than just games (I do like games) but I think it would have been helpful to see that.
Thank you for talking about the sweet spot factor. This is critical for simulation games.
Flight simulation man! DCS Xplane the entire community has been waiting for this for years
Are you guys gonna have a video on the Star VR one?
As a sim racer I could purchase this for racing and just buy a quest with controllers for standing VR as they are the same price as the index bundle
I personally would go for the index, for racing games, the 120-144 hertz screen will be amazing. Plus overall the standing will be a better experience. However if you want the wireless experience from the quest then I would say go for both
@@travishepworth9360 I dont't know how you think a modern SIM will run at that refresh rates? Getting to stable 90 fps is already a big challange!
Norm, what if you could buy only 1 headset. What would you choose: HP Reverb or Valve Index? :)
Thanks!
I thought of asking the same thing but doubt they are allowed to say 😞
Index
Definetely the Index!
Such a good headset.
For sims the reverb could be superior imo. I'm getting the index though 😁
Aerith Heiro i think anybody would pick index
28:48 Hot damn, an asymmetric escape room with one person in AR/VR looking at like the "future" of the room and another person in the room looking at the "past/present" would be super cool. You would have to work together to figure out how to stop some calamity or something and when stuff in the room is changed the AR/VR would update to show the future with that taken into account...
It is possible to use Steam controller dongles with re-flashed firmware to connect Wands or Knuckles to, and use them with this, no SteamVR headset required. Still need base stations though.
Yes you absolutely can. There is a step by step 'how to' guide online and its not too hard to accomplish
No mention on the software IPD?? I want to love the reverb but I'm near the max of the IPD range and worry its going to suck for us with wide or narrow IPD.
You should wait for a WMR HMD with this res but a mechanical IPD then. This headset also strives for comfort and mechanic IPD adjustments add significant weight to the front of the HMD.
Glad the G2 will have a manual IPD. Especially as my eyes are super close together at like 59mm for the headset to not be blurry. Might even upgrade to it from the Oculus CV1 if the tracking and controllers are good.
Did you test it on Xplane 11? Tens of thousands of us were wondering 😅
@Gary Anderson watch swevivers video on setting up Xplane 11 for VR and optimising it's about 40mins long but it's really good to get your foot in the door
Hi Tested! Great review, as usual!
I'm really interested in this headset, nor really for gaming (because of the performance it's demanding) but for media consumption (Virtual Desktop, basically). Hopefully the price will quickly be cut down.
You guys should Frankenstein all the current VR technology to make the ultimate VR headset just to see what that would be like.
It seems like everything has something missing that would make it great.
15:57 "The black levels are better.. at least in the Rift S"
Are the Valve Index black levels that bad? Or is this just NDA?
Might just be because they were only allowed to try the Index for 30 minutes with preselected demos so it’s difficult for them to be certain.
@@SvenTheViking That sounds right.
@Legion True, I don't think I will notice that much nor mura or anything. I just cannot stand those damn pixels. Oculus Quest is okay qua device however the pixels are rather big that one is a no-go. I want to go for a reverb but those controllers are shit, I had a wmr before.
Great test guys, really helpfull- I was considering Hp over Oculus Rift S and you helped me to make a right decision. I have a NVidia 1080 and I think that Hp is too demanding for it in its full resolution so this video helped me a lot. Thanks!!
HP coming out of the gates in 2019 showing us that these other companies are intentionally holding their tech back.
Yeah do you think everyone can buy a 1080 gpu.... I think you still don't get it
The other companies are holding their tech back because higher specs are more demanding.
As it is today, the Reverb can only be run on less than 5% sold computers, meaning it's basically *unusable* for most people. Even with a 1080, it can't run at full FPS without tuning down the resolution!
And even for those who _can_ run this headset, the power it uses is power they won't use for the game itself.
Basically, the whole issue comes from the fact that VR requires too much power (and the higher the specs, the more power it demands). As Tested said: the Reverb is a great glimpse of the future of VR. For the next generation, it should definitely be the standard!
@@Dante02d12 This is not really true. You can run at less than native res and still benefit from the better panels because you'll have less SDE and more readable text. Should someone still holding onto a minspec gtx970 get this? Probably not but even a gtx1070 would be good enough and maybe only need to downsample a small amount
@@hellyeahreactions millions of people buy a 1000 dollars phone every year. There is no reason to race to the bottom. Unless you are delusional like facebook that vr will get to 1 billion people
@@brendanr2119 Low resolution image on higher resolution panel is _not_ better than low resolution image on low res' panel. It's a common misconception ^^.
Just do that experience: display HD content (ex: any DVD) on a FHD monitor, you'll see it is _worse_ than displaying same HD content on a _HD_ monitor. You'll see it is more burry.
Getting a better _screen_ resolution will only make the _lack_ of image resolution more obvious.
Norm is right when he says downsampling is not an option. Although, in the case of VR, it is an option *if the screendoor effect **_really_** bothers you.* In that case, well yeah, getting this headset and downsampling might be worth it ^^.
But in terms of _visual quality_ if we don't count the SDE, it is worse.
Great review as always guys. Thanks for being a knowledgeable source for VR reviews
How the hell do you get one of these?? it seems like nobody had them in stock and they just sent them to reviewers.
We need some third party WMR controllers!
You fund it - I'll make it.
Really a shame that all the WMR headsets seem to be committed to the worst VR controllers. Would be great if they’d go for a Quest/Rift S Touch design, since that’d work well with their inside out tracking. Also, they need to move up to 4-5 cameras for tracking.
The resolution seems nice though. If they fixed those other problems they’d be ahead of Oculus.
They are much better than the Vive controllers, which don't even have thumbsticks.
I wish a 3rd party would create WMR 2.0 Controllers - done. :)
I mean technically you could connect knuckles with Bluetooth for buttons and touch inputs and put a WMR tracking ring on top. Or you could do what some did with rift, using external lighthouses with knuckles and using a program to make the rift tracking track only the head and the lighthouses track knuckles.
@@alexasbagel True, but the problem is you end out spending as much money as you would buying the Index with lighthouses and controllers. (so now maybe that is a better option lol). I am going back to Nintendo Virtualboy. Ahh the red and blue lights. lol
A sim racers dream and a seated slam dunk. It's purpose built and I like that, it's not a room scale native VR power house like the Index, it's meant to be good at comfort by lack of weight and high resolution. Now if only HP could stock them in places, I think they got caught off-guard with the demand.
Tried it and resolution was really nice. Although with heavy jelly effect.Too slow GPU?
Yes
Great review guys you are always the best imho :) I am an Oculus Rift owner enthusiast about the efficiency and comfort of use of the touch controllers which are the best out there. Would it hurt a real lot to get the HP reverb tracking wise ? I mean I am very attracted by the high res but at the same time, as you can imagine, I would rather not spend 600 dollars if my vr experience would worsen because of the crappy wmr controllers. I play very competitively games like Pavlov, Onward and Contractors. I look forward to your a answer thanks in advance!
No physical ipd adjustment on this one either? Damn
Thanks for this review! I will likely pick some of these up for my architecture firm. How does the weight compare to the first HP WMR headset?
every headset should have foveated rendering... the smaller the sweet spot the more it should have it... we dont have eye tracking yet, ok. so lets just render the part inside the sweet spot at 100%, then outside that at a much lower resolution.. i mean, we cant see it anyway. i dont understand why this wasnt implemented right from the get go. it would slower the cost of getting into vr, lower the hardware requirements, or allow people with better hardware to turn settings higher, use more ss etc.i just truly dont understand it. ive played one or two games that have the option, but not customizable enough. ALL games should have the option, whether its implemented per game by devs, or by steam vr, or by the headset manufacturers, it should be a thing and it makes no sense to me that its not.
Sounds like everyone needs a Index for VR games, Reverb for simmming and Quest for on-the-go.
The question to me is, which would you choose to lose first, your eyes or your hands. Sure it shouldn't be the kind of decision we have to make but if you asked me that question, I'm probably going to say I'd rather lose my hands. I am biased though I can't meaningfully get full room VR with anything other than inside out. I'm not changing my whole office just to set up something I use recreationally sometimes.
Ugh, how does it compare to the samsung odyssey plus?
I think is not a big difference if SS 250% on Odyssey+
Hey guys love the videos! Wondering if you tried this headset with VR pinball. Think pinball would be better on this headset?
Windows button on WMR opens Mixed Reality Overlay. You know, the one that has 'home' icon, volume and such. It doesn't do anything other than that, doesn't close, doesn't do anything until you select anything there. See, Stick click opens Steam Dashboard overlay, and Windows key opens Windows Dashboard overlay. Also WMR home (cliffhouse) allows to use steamvr games directly. It's not that bad and clunky, it's definitely functional. Sure it's no Vive, but for steamvr it's about as clunky as Rift.
I have absolutely zero issues with the button placement on WMR headed.
Tracking, not so much...
Something about their lighting or color coding is making this older episode seem "warmer"...
This would be great if not for the bad controllers. Looks like the ideal sim headset for driving/flight sims though. That said the colours and black levels in your comparison pics were quite worrying.
Pretty much my thoughts as well. However as someone who is into sim racing I think the drawbacks are just too many for the price .
The thing where pressing windows boots you out immediately has been fixed, along with many other software based complaints. You just need to update windows. If you go to windows insider builds you can even pull up floating app windows inside SteamVR, just like you do in Cliff House. It's still not as good as Oculus dash, but it's better than SteamVR.
Hi great review about the Reverb , out of curiosity please let us know what your individual ipd's are , I would buy one of these but I have 6.8 ipd which is a bit too wide for a decent experience in most all WMR headsets , Thanks
Look at the HP reverbs website, its not targeted at gamers at all...
No it's for work suckers!
this video as well as other recent comparison 'through the lens' videos the S black levels look even sometimes better than OLED models. Even these guys implied the S black levels are the best so far for LCD.
You guys are always spot on with your observations
Pressing the Windows button on Mixed Reality controllers does NOT take you out of the game. This was changed several months ago with a Windows update. It now brings up a small dashboard with controls to let you take a screenshot, record a video, open the Mixed Reality Home (which WILL close your game) or activate the flashlight. Maybe you should make sure you're using the latest version of the software next time you review a product.
5 more years we might finally be in a good place with vr
FirestoneX hello to the people reading this five years from now.
On the topic of sweet spot and foveated-rendering: If the Reverb has clarity issues on the edges due to the lens design, HP could employ fixed -foveated-rendering like the Go does. Not seeing how much quality is lost due to the lenses myself, i can't say how much could be gained here, but it is an optimization that would help before we get eye-tracking headsets.
PSVR does this as well...it's purely a software thing.
I hope the index will have the same or better screen resolution. That and valve knuckles will be the true next gen vr 🤩
It won't.
safetyinletters but the index 2 probably will, so if you buy into the index now you can just upgrade the headset in about 2 years for $399.
they have a video about the index..... the reason is less.... it has other improvements.... not the resolution
Who is the person in Orange standing behind Norm?
Adam supervising
Will have to wait for through the lens comparison between this and the Index. Perhaps the reduced number of pixels isn’t as drastic and with faster panels and wider view might still be better to go for the index for flying and racing.
Index isn't going to have anywhere near the clarity of the Reverb. Can't beat physics.
Callsign Vega that is true, but perhaps the trade off with the fast panels might make it comparable at least when it comes to having to make a choice. I gotta admit, I do sometimes realize after I play my head feels a bit drowsy... foggy almost, now I wonder if that is because my eyes are trying to focus the whole time or because my world is “refreshing” at only 90hz
So I have a pc that meets the requirements for the oculus s but my pc is in a horrible area to use vr. It’s a very small space with virtually no room to move around. I want to dip my feet into vr and although I have a pc that meets the requirements I still don’t know which headset I should pick up the rift s or the quest. What would you recommend I get? The quest has a lot less power but I can use it in a room with ample room to move but I have a pc that can use the s but with virtually no room at all to move.
Reverb for simming, Index for big room VR gaming, Quest for on-the-go.
PCVR is obviously going to be the better VR experience.
So ask yourself if you are going to commit lots of time in VR at home or you would use on-the-go?
Would you want to play sit-down games or want the full vr games experience?
How come Chan's t-shirt is much more vibrant? :D
Got enlightened by trying Valve Index.
Norm has never washed his!
what is you thought for someone with a IPD of 59? I don't care about FOV, tracking as I only play seated sims. The IPD is important for clarity/focus on gauges
Also the higher the FOV the greater the motion sickness. With the wrong IPD things are blurry and you can get head aches.
Oh man, you just killed my expectations :-(
I want to ignore the reality of WMR to get high Res for DCS and other Sims, but is it really worth it?
the winmr stuff is completely fine.... get it and return it if u don't like something
For sims, it probably is. The tracking and controllers would matter more for roomscale VR games.
@@BremenSA it's fine for room scale..... not being perfect doesn't make it bad at all
im wondering... is it possible to use just the HP reverb headset but pair it with the index controllers with its own lighthouses?
i am going for the valve index but i would have bought this hands down if it had more cameras and waaaaaaaaay better controllers
Reverb with knuckles is only $100 more than valve index
@@ShishakliAus you would also need light houses if you wanted to use the knuckles with the reverb?
where is the headset 4k x 4k each eye resolution for people that have 2080 ti? i want it
I want it too but it seems that we'll have to wait a while for it. In the meantime I'll get the Reverb and hope that i'll get used with the controllers.
@@jordyx Its unbelievable why they didnt still make such headset with high resolution. The VR Community is usually not about kids with no or bad Computers but mostly about many Adults that have good computers for such good headsets and high demanding. I really want a photo realistic hmd with high fov that can be used for at least 2 years without update.
Idk where they get the performance drops from using >100% resolution on a 1080, my RTX 2070 runs my Oddysey+ perfectly, and that's with SteamVR DEFAULTING to well above what either of them used. It's an absolutely wonderful experience, and I have no regrets.
Every new VR or AR device; Tested: 'A taste of the future.' I know things dont change overnight but it seems like VR and AR will never be close to real in my lifetime.
when you say stereoscopic coverage is reduced in these new HMD.
and you say its noticeable and you need to adjust to it.
do you mean 3d effect is lost outside the sweet spot? because of the reduced coverage?
as objects move to the left or right periphery?
I fly helicopters and need my spatial awareness...
If HP would have went with Lighthouse tracking, I'd be looking at this instead of waiting for the Index that may take over a year before I see it in Canada.
The HP reverb seems to have pushed the resolution to a level where I would actually consider VR to be "good enough" to invest in.
I might not buy the Reverb, due to currently having too old hardware and too big economic limitations to be able to upgrade to something which will comfortably run it - but within a few years, as the PC hardware becomes more powerful and available to the more average customer, I most definitely will invest in something seeing how the resolutions are finally being pushed.
All i care is driving and flying in VR, so this is PERFECT!
it's perfectly fine for other stuff too
@@pumpuppthevolume Pavlov, War Dust are a complete mess to play with WMR, button mapping is a nightmare and always lose tracking when you aim gun down sights near the face.
@@pumpuppthevolume i am saying that Reverb is exactly PERFECT for me as i use VR only for driving and flying, seated experience. But shooters in particular work much better with Oculus or Vive, just an observation from my personal experience as i had Oculus and then i had Odyssey+, both sold, next is Reverb 99%.
@@viktorianas sure.... I can just imagine how people get the idea that the controllers are terrible.... when they do a perfectly good job in most situations
@@pumpuppthevolume they are NOT terrible indeed.
they said they could feel the reprojection/timewarp/space warp etc kick in.... but this is wmr... it only has beta reprojection, and its off by default. you have to edit a config file to set it to 'auto' or permanently on... unless its been updated since i last checked?
Waiting for the Asus ROG VR Head Set or Razer VR Headset with RGB
Ambi-tunnel-light, nice
I might be the minority. But I find the controllers for the WMR to be the easiest to use and most comfortable for me. They fit my hands well, they are balanced, and it it easy for me to go from d pad to joy stick.
Nice try Bill Gates.
Can you add the valve index to these reviews
Why do you only have comparison shots of the HP Reverb vs Oculus products?
what are the black levels like in Elite? On pure black screens is it a light grey like the other WMD LCD headsets? Also, heat levels - does the headset warm up or does it remain cold like the PSVR?
Is it true the cables for these headsets break easily? I have read horror stories about HP's poor customer support woth regards to replacing the cables
Would be cool to see some new backwards compatible controllers.
How does it know which way your head is without a Base Station?
Look at the radio on the HP Reverb in your 3 side by side comparison. It looks like it's on a lower graphics setting than the Rifts. 22:05
Youre right but that only means that the reverb is that much better if the graphic setting was adjusted
Lol, that Rec Room high res revealed the low poly speakers of the stereo prop which look perfectly round in low res screens!
4:08 Haha, what a revelation!
how are the colors versus the rift s en the blacks on the hp reverd because it look bad on the rift s and i preorder min hp reverd am not sure some say blacks are good ?? wat to believe now?
A lot of people are simracers, that means tracking and controllers has no meaning.
Exactly. I keep my Rift for roomscaling but want another for race and spacesims.
They did mention framerate drops on recroom tho. Framerate is vital on sims
Agree. Jumping around like an idiot in my room at age 50 is completely uninteresting to me and MANY more.
Coming from suffering PSVR owner, tracking (in general) does matter, because in PSVR you can’t drive for 5 mins without significant drifting to the left. Don’t care for room scale tracking, but tracking in general is important. Btw judging from many reviews of many different helmets, PSVR is by far the shittiest for racing.
For sim racers, I suspect the Index would be the better choice due to the 120hz/144hz modes. The extra resolution is nice, but for racing, the extra frames and lower latency is probably nicer.
HP PLEASE WORK YOUR ASS OFF AND OFFER US A CONTROLER UPGRADE FOR CHRISTMAS!!!!
How long is the cable? can we play with some space or are you restricted?
what is the difference between the pro version and the HP Reverb VR 1000-200nn
Valve Index is 2880x1600 total (pointing out since for Oculus S they gave the both eye's number: (2560x1440)). That puts Index at around 25% more pixels than Rift S, and 50% more sub pixels than Vive Pro/Oculus Quest. Reverb is crazy, about 150% more pixels than Oculus S!
18:45 Throwing being 90 degrees off sounds like a bug on Rec Room's side, I haven't seen that elsewhere. Unless it was something that only happened when coming from outside of tracking back into it or something (could test that with soft throws with hand always from within tracked area).
19:23 This shouldn't have happened, there was a WMR update months ago that makes the button pull up a menu rather than take you back directly to Windows Home. Maybe he also selected the wrong item from that menu after opening it by accident?
DCS and XPlane and this one is the best one out there for it
is the valve index not 1440 x 1600p instead of 1600 x 1440p as you say or does it not make a difference?
resolution makes no difference for VR. PPD, FOV, lens tech and display tech matter much more in relation to clarity.
@@evolicious resolution makes no difference? are you sure?
@@scoobysnacks209 Yes. 100%. Look at how VR works. You can even use the PSVR and Pimax 8k as perfect examples. Only PPD, FOV, lens, and display tech are what makes a clear picture.
in motion I am curius whether the hp reverb or valve index will be clearer (due to index being higher refresh rate)
Why do u say you need to run 175% ss for native when in video its 126% and native?
Can you use the Vive Index controllers with this headset?
For sure not, all WMR Devices uses Inside-out Tracking. The index controllers doesn`t have any Tracking Lights for WMR.
Btw. these Controllers are from Valve not from Vive. ^^ or do i messed up something?
@@make848 What do you think of the Valve headset when compared to this?
@@brianfist I`m personally interested in the HP Reverb Headset, because of the High Resolution. Im not so focused on wide controller tracking. I have a Lenovo Explorer and i don`t have a problem that WMR Headset loses Track on Controllers if they are out of View. But maybe for me its the small FOV of the HP Reverb that is not suitable for me.
If the valve goes out for maybe 650€ i would buy the valve. ^^
How does the reverb compare to the odyssey+ anti sde tech (1600x1440)
Currently got Vive for roomscale and Odyssey for flight sims... just as I thought getting the Quest and Index is expensive enough, they go ahead and release this so I will have to try to upgrade the Odyssey with this...
If you don't use knuckles or roomscale, the Index is just $650 for the headset and one base station. Though, since you have a Vive, you only need an Index at $500 which is cheaper than buying the Reverb.
@@johnbuscher I currently have Vive in the living room for room scale and Odyssey in the study for sat down / sim stuff, so I'm both...
has only one clicked on how much better the rift s is than the old rift. i think they will stop using oled panels. the HP Reverbs controllers are a deal breaker for me.
forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/75298/rift-s-through-the-lens#latest
Jesus a half hour review?
As a WMR owner, I will say that the controllers are more comfortable than they are saying. However, it is currently the worst VR controllers I have used.
Ps. I have bigger hands, so that may be a reason why they are comfortable for me.
Medium sized hands here. They (wmr) are more comfortable for me. I had to reach more and my hands cramped up with the HTC controllers.
as a current wmr user,
the controller is better than the vive wands in terms of features
but tracking and ergonomics aren't great
and the wrist bands are a joke
If I could use Valve's lighthouse tracking and controllers with this, then I'd cancel my Index pre-order hmd. 😂
Not to mention that the system requirements for this resolution is insanely steep. If all you play is cockpit games, I think you'll be happy with this headset.
You can.
@@Augusto9588 Without the hassle, I mean.
You can. You will need the controllers, lighthouses, two steam BT dongles, and 3rd party software to get it all to work. It's not worth the money to do so, and the work to get everything set up correctly is a major pain.
whats your new colorfilter called? would look great on my new zombiemovie
Yeah but when and where can I buy it in the UK?
Can someone *please* tell me if it would be viable to work inside this HMD, in particular programming in an IDE? I keep hearing that for all other HMDs, the clarity is just not there, yet with the HP Reverb, I keep hearing how amazing the clarity is. I'm a programmer, and my dream would be to essentially get rid of my multi-monitor setup on my desk and just use a headset to program in VR. It would be so awesome to have multiple virtual monitors and work in different virtual locations.
Wish you would comment on the perceived field of view as compared to other headsets as this is more of something I would look forward too , I’m tired of the goggles feel and as a result I’m leaning toward the valve index for the extra field of view . Not sure why you would not cover this 🤔
fov is exactly like vive, its not 114, its something like 105
What I don't understand is why you are not also using a RTX 2080 Ti to test if the "best" consumer graphics card can handle the HP everb weill? I mean you guys are a review channel with 4mio subscribers so having a RTX 2080 Ti even if it costs 1000$ should not be an issue...
The review wouldn't be applicable to 3.9 million of their viewers. Everyone is going to say, "sure but how will it run on my (insert graphic card)"
Not every subscriber has a 2080ti. they have choosen the minimum GPU recomended to test this headset
@@drivinginmorocco4706 I am not saying they should only do it with a RTX 2080 Ti. What I say is that they should also test it with a RTX 2080 Ti to give the information if the maximum graphic card for conusmers can handle the HP Reverb on decend settings...