Trembucker vs Humbucker
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2023
- For even more info about Seymour Duncan Trembuckers vs Humbuckers, check out this video: • Seymour Duncan Trembuc...
To see Warmoth's selection of humbuckers go here: warmoth.com/hardware/guitar-p...
To see our selection of Seymour Duncan Trembuckers go here: warmoth.com/hardware/guitar-p...
BIG DIFFERENCE
I noticed at the A test, that his body was off the center of the camera, while at test b B his body is move little to the left.
Gotta give a thumbs-up for the choice of songs: Billy Gibbons, Vivian Campbell, Randy Rhoads... Well done, Aaron!
I agree with your assessment, they are essentially the same. Any difference is small enough to be ignored.
Side note:Trembuckers are not only f spaced but are actually a larger pickup size wise.
Another great video! This type of scientific experimentation was totally needed and continues to be needed, so it's great to see when people do it.
I thought the Trembucker had a tighter bottom end, liked how it sounded cranked a bit better. Clearer overall. Thanks, Aaron!
to me the As were all so much more focused and crisp and the B duller and hazy. Not sure why, or if it's even the pole spacing or something else. But it was pretty wow right away! Nothing that can't be eq'ed of course. Thanks for the test!
Interesting, to my ear there is a nominal difference in sound but both perfectly usable and my guess a minimal eq adjustment would have them nearly identical. I have standard spaced pickups on my Tele Deluxe and never gave it a thought. They bring the rock so I never had much reason to question the results.
None the less, great video. These are always well thought out and I tend to learn something new. Thanks!
The only thing I needed to hear Aaron play was ‘You Can’t Kill Rock and Roll’ to decide that I like test A better.
Wow! I was not expecting this result. I'm halfway through and haven't seen the reveal, but they definitely have a difference in sound. Pickup A sounds a bit more compressed and compact. Pickup B sounds a little more open. While I would like the sound of A, I prefer B.
I TOTALLY agree with you.
B had an out of phase type of sound to my ear, A sounded 'correct' which made me think it's a JB or similar right away. There is certainly a difference there. I try to use rail pickups on my F spaced guitars to make sure there isn't an issue with dead zones between the pole. Seems to work for me
Yes, there is a difference, particularly in the attack of the low E. With a G spaced bucker, the attack is a bit softer and less direct. I have an excellent Throbak pickup in the bridge of my strat, but I do wish they offered F spaced to regain the little bit of attack that is lost when the pole piece is not directly under the string.
I always love the comments on these things with everybody contradicting each other, ear of the beholder and all that I guess.
100%
Before I learned about pickup pole spacing I had installed a pair of humbuckers in my HSH Strat style project guitar with trem system. I put the 7ohm pup at neck and the 11.5ohm pup at bridge. Spacing on the neck pup was good but the bridge pup pole pieces were tight. As luck would have it, the low E string centered over the pole but the B and E strings were “north” of center. No noticeable loss of tone but when stretching the strings the pole pieces would line up and the tone seemed to get more sonic and there was more sustain! A happy accident!
I very much enjoy these back to back comparisons, Aaron does a great job! However, I dare to claim that if one doesn't hear a difference in this test, maybe the monitoring needs evaluation. With Sennheiser HD600 headphones and Genelec speakers, I hear obvious and repetitive difference between the pickups. The trembucker definitely picks up the high and low strings better, whereas with the humbucker the middle strings are pronounced. Interestingly, on Seymour Duncan site all trembuckers are listed having slightly higher DC resistance than humbuckers. Obviously there are tolerances in the manufacturing process and I'd like to know what they are, because in this test the trembucker is very evidently quieter. Unless the trembucker was farther away from the strings, I'm 100% sure that if you took out the pickups and measured them, of these particual units the humbucker will actually measure hotter. This was a good test, and it would be worth replicating with a '59 or some other milder, less compressed and honky pickup.
Aaron, how about an experiment to compare the sound/output of a guitar's bridge pickup, where a) the bridge and neck pups are wired into a conventional circuit with a selector switch, tone pot and volume pot; versus b) the bridge pup goes straight to the output jack? To make it even more fun, this could be done as a three-way comparison: 1) both pups conventionally wired; 2) neck pup disconnected but still mounted in the guitar, and 3) neck pup disconnected and removed from the guitar. This might test the (mistaken, IMO) belief that a one-pickup guitar will have more clarity and sustain than a two-pickup guitar due to the absence of the neck pickup's magnets pulling on the strings--which I think is bunk. If there is a difference, I think it will be due to fewer components in the circuit rather than the removal of the neck pickup itself. What do you think?
I would love to see a test on the guitar of tonal discovery using a standard neck position single coil versus the reverse slant single-coil like Jake E Lee
Good idea!
Hey, that's a good idea! I would take it a little further by testing the usual Fender pickup tilt against a reverse tilt AND a no-tilt rear pickup (i.e. parallel to the other ones).
Hey Arron, I have to say, while both pick ups had usable nice tone, my ears were drawn to the "B" pickup (before known which one it was). Very interesting shoot out.
great sounding amp!
I successfully guessed that B was the trembucker, but I wouldn't have been surprised if I had been wrong.
Thanks for clarifying, I won't bother swapping my current humbucker even if it's a bit misalignmed
Hi Aaron,
Thanks for this insightful video.
What is the spacing of that bridge? Is it spaced wider for the trembucker or narrower for the regular pickup? Were the strings centered over the pole pieces on each of the pickups used?
The difference is basically just the difference between any two pickups of the same model. To me the second one sounded quieter but that makes no sense if the whole pole spacing were really a problem.
I don't hear much of a difference between them Aaron, At least nothing worth mentioning hah! Really dig your video as well as your necks & bodies, you guys rock.
B clips have a little less mids and a little more top end. A clips sound warmer.
Lol, I thought I was imagining that, it’s definitely splitting hairs to hear it
Pickup A sounded ”bigger” to me when I listened to all the tests. After you revealed it was a humbucker I listened another time and tried to focus on the mids and highs, instead. That time pickup B sounded clearer/more open than A. Maybe the lack of mids/highs of pickup A made me think it sounded ”bigger”? But very close, that’s for sure!
On test 2, it sounded to me like there may (?) have been just a bit more bass tone, but i wont swear to it. Thanks for answering the question though.
i have a 50mm humbucker in my 53mm strat. sounds fine to me, no problems
I figured A was the TB because the low E sounded stronger, but it could be the coil is slightly higher or something.
Duncan is actually a bad example for this test... I have a regular spaced JB that I love that reads 15.35k ohms. The trembucker versions read well over 17k and sound different. Duncan doesn't adjust the number of turns so the wider bobbin means there is more wire on the coils and they definitely sound different. I worked for a "boutique" pickup winder for years and we adjusted the wind for trem spaced pickups so that they sounded exactly the same as the standard spaced versions.
It's a JB. It's natural partner in crime is the Boss Metalzone. Though Boss Metalzone, everything below the D string is as audible as the bass on And Justice for All, and the E string is so sharp that it is like having a knitting needle shoved into your ear-drum... so in the end, it doesn't really matter.
(I use Trembuckers purely for aesthetic reasons, that absolutely nobody is ever going to be close enough to my pickups to see that 1/16" difference)
I thought B had a tiny bit more clarity in the low and high ends, but I think I was only able to notice this because this is an AB test. If I was listening to a recorded song, I wouldn't be able to pick if something was a humbucker or trembucker.
A test that might be interesting and revealing: An all mahogany strat (body and neck) vs the standard alder body/maple neck strat. As Aaron notes, one change like neck shaft wood doesn't make that much difference. But a wholesale change just might. I've been pondering an all mahogany strat project --- I just love the look of natural mahogany --- and how it might sound. It won't be a Les Paul, but maybe closer than you'd think. I was surprised recently by my new Warmoth mahogany Gibson scale neck and how much it thickened the sound on my otherwise stock Player Strat, even compared to my maple Gibson scale neck.
Jim lill
Im here exclusively for the versatility!
You are obviously a person of refined taste.
With Sony headphones: there is a difference. A is warm sound, more low end. B is Crunchy, more middle ramge. Of course...with the mobile speaker you cannot hear ANY difference, but with middle price headphones, mam...some differences arises. Actually, really, I was expecting not hearing any difference...
I just did this a few minutes ago: I have a Wolfgang Standard and the bridge pole pieces are normal humbucker. I hear no difference at all with using gain, I guess compression does the trick here. But when I switched to clean channel I can hear a tiny volume mismatch between the E string and the B string. Is it because the E string is thinner or the pole piece misalignment? I don't know, all I can say is I adjusted the the pole piece high for the E string, now the E string sounds perfectly balanced in volume with B string. I learned this trick by asking the same question in the Seymour Duncan forum.
I was surprised how close they were, but not because I think teh few millimeters on polepiece spacing matters. It's just amazing how close those two pickups sounded because of manufacturing tolerances. It's very hard to match any electrical component exactly and inductors (coils... which is what pickups are) usually don't have very tight tolerances. It's hard enough to match the inductance of two coils wound around same size cores/bobbins, and in this case the bobbins can't even be same size, as one of them have to be wider to accomodate wider pole pice spacing.
Also... If use neck pickup and bend a note on the highest frets, how much does the tone change? You can easily bend enough that the string will be between the pole pieces. If that difference is not really big, I wouldn't worry about polepieces being slightly offset from the strings.
So... If there is a slight difference here, it's likely to be more because we are comparing two different pickups and less because some of the pole pieces are offset a millimeter or two. Manufacturing tolerances are really neglected in these kind of comparisons. It would be really nice to see comparisons betweenparts that are actually sold as same part and see if people find differences in them too. Optimally there needs to be more than two of the same part, because with two you might get lucky and they might be very close to eachother. Take five and and you are a lot more likely to find differences if there are any (that are meaningfull).
Standard spaced hb'er is tighter, more compressed and crunchy and the trembucker is broader and more open.
Love the subtitles "applause" lol
If i get a hardtail strat should I use trembucker or humbucker bridge pickup?
4:38 Here's what I've heard so far: In clean mode, Pickup B sound a hair more scooped and marginally not as hot as Pickup A. That distinction disappears under distortion, where they sound as close to identical as damn-all.
After 4:38: So, assuming that you set them both up at the same exact height, maybe the polepieces being closer together causes a little more output? Or at least the illusion of it? Or maybe you played a little differently between the clips.
Not a failed experiment. Confirming "tribal knowledge" with testing is still useful. Only experiments where you don't learn anything or you learn the wrong thing are failures.
Good video. Keep up the good work.
Yeah it's weird to say the difference of the entire pickup's sound is from the outer pole piece spacing...
However a structural difference exists, if they wind the same length of the same wire on larger bobbins, the distribution of windings will be shallower on a slightly larger pick up - ie. on a trembucker there will be a lower number of windings to get the same resistance as the PAF style pickup, because each winding is longer. The comparison assumes that there are no tiny manufacturing differences in magnets or wire etc.
And this has absolutely nothing to do with polepeice spacing.
I thought A sounded better and B was the humbucker with lower outer E strings.
Weird. The JB is a powerful pickup and like many high output ones, might benefit from some distance from the strings for clarity.
*Versus ... apart from that, great vid. I really like your test vids.
Gah!!!! I'll get our top men on that right away!!
had guitars where the poles don't line up well on some strings,
to my ears not a drastic change in volume when comparing to other strings that line up perfect over the same pickup
This is good to know cuz I always mess up f-spaced or g-spaced pickups…I mess up the R2 or R3 nut and don’t even get me started on narrow or wide spaced bridges…yep, I’m an idiot😳
Is the bridge spacing on your demo guitar vintage (56 mm) or modern (52 mm)? Pickup A (the regular humbucker) sounds more focused and balanced.
Seymour Duncan said the wide magnetic field of poles negates any volume difference between PAF or Fender-width spacing. He's not trying to sell you stuff you don't need.
These 2 pups may have slight character difference in overall sound, difficult to say that's from spacing of outer polepieces!
Could be tiny manufacturing differences in winding, wire, and bar magnets...
Ie. How do you even get the same number of windings in the same configuration on a larger bobbin? You're better to just use whatever pickup you like and not worry about the pole spacing, which is only visual.
As usual the experts in the comments section give opposing things that they hear. But as always great video, Thanks Aaron!
I noticed a subtle but definite difference between the two. But it's so subtle I can't just say one is brighter or whatever. I think I prefer the second pickup, but I'm not even sure about that. So the "pole piece under the string" is actually a thing - or you wouldn't hear a difference. But it's a very small difference in tone. One of those things that you would' never notice if you didn't A/B it. But as a builder, that would make a difference to me, and I would match pole and string spacing (if possible). I suspect that a build that made all those little choices that are not much by themselves (pole spacing, tone woods, all that junk) might add up to something special.
Agreed. Taken in isolation nothing makes a massive difference, but the culmination of those thousand little things can make one guitar sound very different than another.
i heard more of a difference with the clean sounds; a little less bass response on example B. but depending on how picky you want to be it could just be negligible.
The regular humbucker sounded better with gain because the high strings sounded less harsh and the trembucker sounded better for cleans because the tone is more direct.
Is the bridge on the guitar you’re using standard spacing or is it wider spaced? I have tons of fixed bridge guitars that were F spaced. Ibanez hardtails work better with Trembuckers.
I was just listening to the video and didn't see when there was a change in pickups. All sounded the same to me.
Interesting test. I don’t think there was a major difference, but there was a slight difference, and I thought the humbucker sounded just right and the trembucker was slightly off, but playing it by itself outside of this test, you probably wouldn’t notice the difference
I think in order to really test this, you'd have to take some resistance readings on the pickups. B sounded SLIGHTLY hotter, which tracks with better string/pole piece alignment. But it's not like A sounded bad. Did you take a resistance reading on each pickup with a multimeter?
It’s a trembucker it is going to have a greater DC resistance that’s a given.
Diff sounds like something that could be easily adjusted by simply manipulating pick up height with a simple screw driver. Pole spacing matters very lil. It's just magnet detection levels. Close enough to the metal strings is close enough to be damn good sounding. I wouldn't worry too much about this. Interesting test though!
As someone who's messed with pickup height on like 40 guitars... Never have I ever felt like this crap was a big deal lol.
Team Aaron!!!
Hey Aaron will you make a video of taking warmoth parts and building a headless guitar.
Yeesh....not sure my kung fu is strong enough to do that competently. I've seen it done with Warmoth parts before, but I have never attempted it myself...
I can tell you this: if you look at Seymour Duncan humbuckers, some of their pickups like a JB, Pearly Gates, and the 59, they offer both spacings. And the ohm readings for whatever reason are hotter on Trembucker/F spaced humbuckers. Why this is I don’t know, but this is something to look into.
Probably because the number of windings is the same between standard and trembucker versions of the same model, so the total length of the wire is increased on trembuckers due to the wider bobbins. Longer wire makes for higher resistance.
@@boshi9 I’ve never owned a trembucker. I only have a Fralin noiseless p90 that’s F spaced. You learn something new everyday, now it all makes sense with the slightly increased output.
@@BrandonAlexander-sj2qm By the way, most manufacturers, including Fralin, use the same bobbins on their F-spaced pickups, only the poles are set further apart, so their Ohm readings should stay the same (outside of small manufacturing tolerances). Seymour Duncan is special in that their bobbins are actually wider on F-spaced versions.
What about compound radius fretboard / neck? Which type one works the best?
With how magnetic fields work that absolute minut amount of spacing will not have much of any affect. Most pickups pole pieces magnetic field actually overlap each other on top.
we're so back!
Think you're more likely to get tonal variation from the difference in pickup winds than the pole spacing. Slap a pickup in your guitar and, if it sounds good, play it. ♥️🤘
I like trembucker better as always, because of personal preference (I hate the looks of misalignment). No real difference in sound, and even if there are, pretty managable via EQ or tone knobs. I've used humbucker in bridge or trembucker in bridge, works just fine, get whatever you have.
"Yeah dude I can totally tell the two apart"
> proceeds to plug the guitar straight into boss metal zone
I thought the trembucker sounded way better on cleans. Stood out when compared back to back but without that not noticeable enough to do
If there would be significant difference Seymour Duncan would also make 7-string pickups with two sizes. But they dont. And this is why whole humbucker/trembucker thing is mostly aesthetics
Test 4...is that "You can't kill Rock and Roll" by Ozzy?? I have a newer Epiphone Les Paul with 52mm pickups instead of 50.
Watched it with eyes, my brain tried to tell me there was a difference. Listened without my eyes multiple times, no difference. I think the people saying theres a difference didn't watch it blind and relied too much on their eyes. Dunno about them, but my headset doesn't go over my eyes
I don’t hear a difference. Have you tried the 59/custom hybrid? That pickup has really grown on me.
I felt maybe trembucker was ever so slightly brighter
Preferred the humbucker. Sounded more expansive.
Just saved me $200 tnx...no noticeable difference.
For me A is heavier on lowest strings, the B is a little more balanced.
Man I got that totally wrong, this is from someone that owns both pups lol
EVH only has one pickup spacing. To the best of my knowledge. Standard spacing!
I would assume EVH pickups have the "F-Spacing" baked in, since almost all their guitars have a Floyd Rose. I have not verified that though.
53mm has more magnet. hold the strings tighter. Allan Holdsworth said this.
The result is so drastic, I like pickup B better, to me it sounds more airy, more breath.
The problem with doing this test with a JB is that, of all pickups I have ever used, the JB is the most sensitive to it's environment. In other words, some of my guitars love it and some do not, and even the ones that love it are super sensitive to pickup height adjustment and mounting - a very precise sweet spot. For background, I've been using JB's since they were invented! My guess is that you could install two different JB's of the same type (regular or F spaced) and still get the same tonal variations. You should try this test again with a PAF type pickup - most PAF types are in the 8k ohm range and usually have much larger sweet spots......
3:24 RUSH !
I was actually going for Ozzy! :)
The so-called "Trembucker" is a tiny bit better in the high and low strings. To me this is not a significant difference in this demo where the bridge has 52.5mm string spacing. However when using a Floyd Rose bridge, I expect the (so-called) Trembucker will WIN !!
B is trembucker , a is humbucker
Why aren't you tuned to standard tuning?
For maximum versatility.
@@warmoth would you care to explain what that means?
@@gigmandrew8975How dare you…
This video should clear everything up: ruclips.net/video/7rNPmTny-kA/видео.html
It bothers me aesthetically but i dont think there's a significant difference.
No two pickups are going to sound exactly the same..
It comes down to Looks.. not so much tone. It's about if you want pole piece lining up with the strings or not. Also Their sound is so insignificant in the differences you almost wouldn't be able to tell unless you were really trying hard to listen. And.. it could be fixed with the littlest tweak of the eq knob on the amp or pedals. Easy as that.
Regular hb sounded a bit better to my ears.
I know Aaron's gonna get down to business when he's got safety glasses on. EDIT: On a more serious note, your inability to discern the difference is hugely concerning. The B clip is very covered and missing a bunch of high end information although otherwise being tonally-similar. The actual difference is stark. Please look into it.
I'll get our top men on it!
I think that anyone who thinks they can hear a difference through the compression of RUclips is imagining it.
I had it so loud that it made my ears bleed lol (but no difference).
I mean, it was obvious which one was the neck and which one was the bridge pickup so if you take that into account they basically sound the same