How many Pokemon beat Falkner without Optional Battles? - Episode 6: Squidgy versus Scotty
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Minimum Battles is the ultimate challenge. But how many Pokemon can beat the first Gym of Gen 2 on Minimum Battles?
On my main channel @RBYPokemonChallenges , I have already completed this challenge with all 151 Pokemon on Gen 1, but Gen 2 presents a massively different challenge - sleep and Wrap were nerfed, there's no Gen 1 miss (1/256 glitch), and all the trainers have better AI. But Minimum Battles might just be possible with some effort and ingenuity.
Today's challengers:
Diglett, Dugtrio,
Meowth, Persian,
Psyduck, Golduck,
Mankey, Primeape,
Growlithe, Arcanine,
Marill, Azumarill,
Sudowoodo
Obligatory note: Grass has never resisted Fighting, but in gen 1, with the sole exception of Tangela, all Grass-types are also Poison, Psychic, or Bug, which do all resist Fighting.
Aw.... That's right!
These videos are great. I wanted to make a small note about rollout - If you use defense curl at any point before using rollout it doubles the starting base power, so it gets really really strong quite fast. Definitely something worth trying whenever possible.
Yeah, I was planning that as the Azumarill strategy once it gets it. I think it's one of the stronger setups in Gen 2
I just tried a minimum battles run in Crystal to test items, and you can get 5 berries total before Falkner. The two trees, the guy in the house, the one you start equipped with (the randomizer might not give this one) and then you can use an Escape Rope in the available Ruins of Alph to get the fifth. So there are enough berries in a normal run to use one on all five battles up to Falkner.
Damn, okay. I will test those out in the next set, since more berries might have saved a couple of Pokemon
I never realised just how desolate Pokemon could be without the wild encounters until you ran down to Azalea
Yeah, encounterless is kind of sad, I just do it for the sake of time since I'm doing so many Pokemon each time
I think people forget that trash level-up sets was a bigger issue in Gen 1, especially before Yellow. I mean, Rydon is probably the poster child, but things like Nidos getting Double Kick in the 40s, Rapidash only getting Fire Spin and Ember for fire moves, and Scyther's dishonorable improvement of getting blessed with Wing Attack at level 50 in Yellow only. People clowning on Gen 2 learn sets forget they are almost always an improvement over the only previous games in the series.
Definitely, and they made better progressions from weak to strong moves as a pokemon levelled up in Gen 2. I think criticism of Gligar's set makes sense, but overall the sets are more logical.
The great thing about being able to trade back and forth from Gen 1 to Gen 2 is being able to teach moves to RBY Pokemon that they don't normally learn.
My favorite is Alakazam. You can teach Alakazam Fire Punch, Ice Punch, and Thunder Punch in Gen 2, and then trade it back over to a Gen 1 game!
So long as the move exists in RBY, a pokemon can bring moves over from Gen 2 into Gen 1!
Gen 2 was an improvement, but not NEARLY enough of one. Still too many Pokemon that don't learn STAB moves for one or both of their types.
The ones you highlight don't even really get that much from the new gen - Rhydon still doesn't learn any Rock attacks (and no ground until Earthquake which comes all the way at level 65), the Nidos still never get STAB outside of the nigh-worthless Poison Sting, Rapidash needs level 61 to get Fire Blast, and Scyther still doesn't get any Bug-type moves, not that there are many worth having.
And that's just the ones that get worthwhile attention. Sandshrew/Slash still get no STAB moves. Voltorb/Electrode still get no STAB moves. None of the ghosts gets Shadow Ball unless you have a TM to spare. Magnemite/Ton get a shiny new Steel typing and 0 Steel moves, and their only additional Electric attack is essentially a set-up requiring two moves to be reasonable. Still a lot of moveset oversights.
And then we have the new Pokemon, which in theory should be better because they didn't have any previous movesets to work from. Yet...Sneasel not naturally getting any Ice moves, Phanpy not getting any Ground-type moves, Gligar getting no STAB moves of either type, Yanma needing Crystal to even give it Wing Attack, and only 3 of the 10 new Bug-types learning ANY Bug-type move, and only one each - and Spinarak/Ariados only get Leech Life, which is still largely terrible at this point. At least Heracross gets Megahorn...it's literally the only one that does.
Gen 2 also has the same problem Gen 1 does in a scarcity of TMs combined with the fact that every Gym Leader TM - a one-time use item at the time, of course - contains a move that NO Pokemon learns naturally. They still expected you to be extremely selective about how you put together your movesets back then, making for some extremely limiting situations unless you were willing to cheat like I was and hack a shop to buy a bunch of one-off TMs and put them in my Pokemon Stadium 2 box.
I'm relatively certain the Chikorita rival is the strongest rival, simply because the Rival's movesets are hot garbage. Bayleef at least gets Razor Leaf, and evolves in time for the rival 2 fight. The others don't get anything meaningful early on, and in the mid-lategame the rival is not very threatening relative to the other trainers, such as the gym leaders and E4.
Yeah, I've been debating about that and I may end up changing the Rival when I do full-game challenges. Croconaw is still no joke though, I think Quilava is worst.
Just discovered this channel, love your RBY challenges , but there is a soft spot for gen 2 in my heart, I also love Arcanine ❤ been binge watching this series and I am still not sure if specials matter
Specials clearly do not matter lol 😆 Thanks for coming over and supporting in Gen 2 as well! We're just getting started over here!
Next episode prediction:
Pass:
- Poliwhirl
- Poliwrath
- Politoed
- Kadabra
- Alakazam
- Machamp
- Aipom
Fail:
- Poliwag (only gets Bubble for attacking)
- Abra (only gets Struggle for attacking and has poor physical defense)
- Machop (weak to Flying and is a first stage)
- Jumpluff (weak to Flying and only gets Tackle for attacking)
- Hoppip (Jumpluff fails AND stuck with Struggle for damage)
- Skiploom (Jumpluff fails)
I plan to play the runs this week, but yeah... I think Machop gets wrecked as do the Hoppip line. But what about Machoke? I could imagine it's about critical hits, like Primeape, on Abe and then maybe we have it....
I popped off, when you mentioned my Optimus Primeape comment.
He might just be an Ape, but he is in his prime.
Aw yeah, Optimus is going to have his day!
Growlithe and Arcanine are very good doggos. Much belly rubs
Yas! Doggo gonna fetch a victory on Red someday
SPOILER for quick recaps...
...
...
Dugtrio: Gotta say, I love how Tri Attack was changed in Gen 2, especially with the three-element animation, and the status chances definitely helped out here to make the Gym an easy one. PASS
Diglett: Low base defense and HP and no strong attacking moves means Diglett is doomed. FAIL
Persian: STAB Scratch and Bite's flinch chance trivialized the gym. PASS
Meowth: Takes too much and does too little to Spearow. FAIL
Golduck: Confusion (the move) easily gets through the gym. PASS
Psyduck: Only Scratch and Tail Whip makes the Spearow too much of a headache. FAIL
Primeape: Needs a crit to get past Spearow. Rage works against Falkner. PASS
Mankey: Has only Scratch and Leer and gets two-shot by the Spearow even with the berry. FAIL
Arcanine: High stats and Flame Wheel make this easy even with a bit of mud. PASS (Bonus: Also beats Bugsy and Rival 2 on MB with minimal issues.)
Growlithe: Bite chews past Spearow and flinches Pidgey to prevent its mudslinging shenanigans. PASS
Azumarill: Defense Curl + STAB Water Gun deals with the Gym easily enough. PASS
Marill: Classic case of taking too much from Spearow and dealing too little back. Not even Defense Curl can save it. FAIL
Sudowoodo: Rocks fall, everyone dies. Not even maximum mudslinging from Falkner can stop it. PASS
Final Results:
PASS: 8
FAIL: 5
This is something from a video or two ago, but Totodile is actually the easiest starter to beat (even for some Pokémon weak to Water), not the hardest. It won't learn a better Water Type move than Water Gun until the post game battle in Mt Moon. Chikorita is actually the hardest starter for your rival to choose; Bayleef gets early access to Razor Leaf and Body Slam; early as in the second rival fight by the second gym. Quilava is a close second, getting Ember and Quick Attack in the same fight, and Flame Wheel in the third (next) rival fight just before the fourth gym.
I will keep this in mind for full game runs.
Rod Sirling, the OG Twilight Zone guy, as alternate to Rod Stewart and Rod Smith.
That is awesome. I will consider the possibility of Rod Stirling here
It’s a shame Azurill couldn’t be here. It wasn’t introduced until gen 3.
Yeah, it would beat Falkner for sure too
Haha i like it when Teo goes all rip or noooooo 😂😂😂😂
Lol, I do what I can to keep it interesting...
Lol love that you just randomly kept going on Arcanine 😂 its my favorite as well since im a gen 1er. I didnt realize all of union cave was skippable, i thought at least one hiker was mandatory, maybe thats in gold/silver
Yeah there are slight position changes between Crystal and Gold/Silver, so I think there are overall fewer required trainers in Crystal.
Grass doesn't resist fighting. It's been that way since Gen I.
I think everything but Tangela had a second typing that resisted Fighting in Gen 1, so it's an easy mistake to make 😂
Enough casino coins for Fire Blast huh? You're gonna cry when you find out the coin case requires optional battles
lolz RIP
So for Unown are we getting a meme episode where every type being represented with a different letter (skipping those with non-effective types except Ghost type to use as an example). Or can we just call it if Hidden Power Rock can't beat Falkner?
I mean, Hidden Power Rock and Ice have to win, right?
@@GSCPokemonChallenges I agree. Treat the types that are SE against Normal/Flying (Ice, Rock, Electric) like evolutions: if the most likely of the bunch cannot do it, go ahead and scratch the others.
Been a while since i played crystal. Can you move past falkner to go win other battles that will be required later in a full game run? Is sprout tower required? I wonder how many of these pokemon might be viable in a full game minimum battles but not minimum battles Falkner setting?
I definitely prefer the group stage format to the more normal one mon at a time approach, just wonder how many might need revisiting if the end goal was shifted back
Ironic that you look ahead in this episode like minutes after i paused to ask 😂
Yeah, I did the full game runs with Mewtwo after this for 500 subs. There are a lot of things I forgot since I'm primarily a Gen 1 player, but improving
Tri-Attack can burn, paralyze, or freeze.
It's such a massive buff from Gen 1. I think Dugtrio will do well... ⚡ ❄️ 🔥
Sometimes I rewind to the very beginning just to see the Smol sprites next to the regular ones. Charizard Pidgeotto and Ferligatr all look so tiny
lol, 🔥
Azumarill is tanky and Defense Curl boosts Rollout.
I'm interested to see how non-STAB rollout does with the bokst
Just a curiosity question. For the next segment are we just getting to Bugsy or can we combine Bugsy and Rival 2? Rival 2 is a few steps away from Bugsy and will probably end a ton of mons at minimum battles.
I am thinking the same. I think we lump them in together, and then do Whitney as a segment and so on. In general, ai think Rivals go with the Gym Leader nearest to them, except the Last Rival will be part of the League section
@@GSCPokemonChallenges Yeah Johto has an issue with its midgame where 3 of the gym leaders all open up at the same time (gyms 5, 6, and 7) along with Team Rocket. But I take it by that time enough mons will hit a wall and it would be possible to split Pokemon into their best paths.
Yeah, I don't think they all HAVE TO stay on identical routes when we get to Jasmine, Chuck, and Pryce. I will likely just require each Pokemon to beat a gym at that point, or depending on the number of Pokemon we may just try all three at that point. The Rocket storyline is the largest bunch of fairly easy battles in the entire playthroughs so it could be that we get the best results by taking on the Rocket storyline at the same point for all Pokemon and then just bum rush the three Gyms
@@GSCPokemonChallengesI was wondering how you planned to do the Mid-game since it is relatively even level-wise (similar to Gen1 but somehow worse). Because of that, my expectation is most Pokémon that can get TO the mid-game will get THROUGH the mid-game. I am concerned how many dreams Whitney and her Flinching, Rolling-Out Miltank are going to kill to lock them out of the Mid-game, though.
I think I will treat the midgame by doing the Rocket Hideout first, just due to the fact that it will fairly normalize everything, and it's just easy in general. Then I will probably run fewer Pokemon per set but require them to clear the gauntlet of Morty, Chuck, Jasmine and Pryce in any order. I envision Morty and Jasmine as the most likely to end runs, honestly.
Low Kick does more damage to heavier foes
I forgot about that mechanic from later gens. Still pretty good with flinches
I think it could be interesting to retry all the failed mons again with doing bellsprout tower since that is sorta-kinda required?
So as far as I know sprout tower is not required per se, we can just stumble around in the dark or use traded HM Mewl. That being said, I will go back and test this later, just as a for your information at the end of the series. I will also have some Pokemon to do some retries with after getting more acclimated and finding ones where I may have botched the strategy
@@GSCPokemonChallenges Yeah that's why I said it's only "kinda-sorta" required. You don't actually need flash to beat the game, but someone new to the game without any previous knowledge might. Obviously any pokemon that needs the extra exp from sprout tower wouldn't exactly count as minimal battles so it would only be as a little experiment after everything else is done. A pokemon like parasect won't magically live through abe's peck, but maybe some of the pokemon that were close might.
Exactly. Flash is very much the same in Gen 1. Especially if the goal is Minimum Battles, routing is very important, so there could be cases where being able to see is a big deal. I will decide how to deal with it when the situation arises
Different Pokemon even on the same evolution line have different strengths and weaknesses.
Yeah, I'm really shocked by the performance of baby Pokemon overall in this series so far. I thought they would all lose....
What is up Teo... this is adventureoflinkmk2 here dropping a comment... how are you this evening/morning/whatever
(Its 1:07am edt when I made this)
Doing great, early evening now here in Japan and the day has gone fairly well!
moar GSC pls
Definitely incoming. Already working on ideas for my first full-game runs...
@@GSCPokemonChallenges
hell yes. i feel like at the very least hold items will make these runs a lot different. that being said, a lot of hold items are probably hidden behind optional battles.
I can't believe we trans'd Falkner's gender (/j)
idk why a Falkner genderbend is the thumbnail but I am here for it he honestly slays with long hair
Yeah, I just thought this was the coolest Falkner image I could find, who cares if it's "canon" 😂
@@GSCPokemonChallenges based and real. Giving my interp of hin long hair for my fic now