You are very funny, buddy. "Every single time I feel like I've seen it all..." Do you really think, that Porsche shares all its prototypes from the last 5 decades with guys like you and me? They have so many prototypes, mostly from cars which didn't happen as a production version. Just think of this Panamera short wheel base car last year, which was seen testing at Weissach as "maybe a Porsche 928 modern successor version". Today we all know, that a production car version from this car will never happen! Porsche have hundreds of such development cars in their secret garages, which aren't made for showing it to the public in every detail. Porsche is still an engineers company. That's just the job of all these people at Weissach. To work and to think about new things on cars, but not constantly blah blah blah on social media channels like this one!
Nearly a decade ago now, I was trying to purchase a Mk1 964 Turbo. I had heard of it called a 965 and made a WTB post. Someone on Rennlist mentioned the misconception. I did a little research and found info on the project V8, water-cooled cars. Ever since, I have been correcting people. This car has been covered before but this had more information than any other video I've seen before. Good job.
Yeah you are completing wrong. 964 is a part number. 965 Porsche part number can be bought today in your dealer as I just bought a complete outer 965 body.
@@scottdunavant345 Did you watch the factory video? :D You are the one who is wrong. Porsche themselves has addressed this on several occasions now. Yes, some of the parts are labeled 965 but that doesn't change that the 964 Turbo is not a 965. The 965 slotted to fall in between the current 911 Turbo (964) and the 959. The 965 was never put into production. /End /Facts
@@PKmode As the Title says, abandon V8 911. The 964 name is just as real as the 965. The 964 is a part number same is the 965. You can’t tell us anything different. Porsche never introduced the 89-94 911 as a 964. The 964 part number does not reference turbo. 965 references turbo therefore 964 turbo is a modified 964 --turbo added to a 3.6 964. 965 is the real 965 turbo. This is usually above people's IQ. But it's not hard to follow.
@@scottdunavant345 You're wrong and that's fine. Porsche factory and enthusiasts widely have accepted the chassis code as a designator. This is not a Porsche exclusive mindset and widely an industry standard. If you want to call it the wrong thing, that's your prerogative.
@@PKmode The 964 is not a trademark name. Either is the 965. Both are part numbers. The 965 references turbo. 964 references non turbo. It's very simple.
Absolutely loved this video Lee , I never knew anything about this project, it’s the very first time I’ve seen anything on the 965 project I’m ashamed to say … thanks for your constant education Fella ….Once again An Awesome video 🙌
I know Porsche has done lots of interesting things over the years. I had no idea that this was in the works. This is way cool. I hope Porsche does something like this in the future. Thank you.
Without wishing to be pedantic, but it’s not just the 964 Turbo 3.6 which uses “965 xxx xxx” part numbered parts, they’re also used on the 3.3 version (a quick scroll through the PET will show you which). For some strange reason, wheel arch liners are the ones that immediately spring to mind (?!) but there’s many more here-and-there throughout the car. Nice video, thanks.
Amazing. Thanks Lee. No START UP?! Crazy to imagine what happened at that time in their management circles. Incredible racing successes, yet staggering dropping in sales. Critical conditions from a sustainable point of view. Red lights for a company. So glad that eventually they made the right decisions. RETAINING the 911 and developing the Boxster so that poor bastards like myself can also enjoy the best brand in the Auto Universe, Love from deep dark Africa.
Very interesting! I had no idea that existed. There are lots of LS swapped 996’s out there, though if you need to know what a 911 with a water cooled V8 would be like. 😬
I adore the 959, but this one is even more visually pleasing, more elegant, with the slightly reduced integrated rear wing and the 968-style front fenders. There should bei body kits with this design!!!!!
Cool - I had never heard of this project before. I was working in Weissach when they were towards the end of their stillborn 989 project (along with the crappy Footwork/Arrows F1 project). It was a rough time at Porsche!
Awesome!, I have seen prototype photos of the 965 before, and knew Porsche had one left, but this must be the first video of the car itself!. It's weird, the interior is definitely 964 with some G-series touches (which makes sense since they were both in development at the same time), but the exterior definitely feels like a 993/959 cross (the front particularly looks like my 993 4S), I wonder if Tony Hatter drew inspiration from the 965 as well as the 959 in regards to the front end....
I think there was an accepted homogeny in design language for the front of Porsches at the time: 928/993/959/964/965 all appear to have those full-width twin slats at the front, all but the 964 having sloped headlights too. In my previous interview with Mr Hatter (also on my channel) he did say inspiration for the 993's nose came from the 959, I assume therefore it is the same with the 965 but would have to ask!
Very good summary. Thanks. I knew of the 965, but not all that detail. It was 'likely' cancelled as it was during the most difficult years for Porsche late 80's early 90's as the 87 crash occured and they knew that they would not get the numbers. Also keep in mind Porsche's were a lot dearer then as everything was hand made, not like today with half of the factory using machines and they are cheaper (wage:purchase cost ratio has improved massively).
Thank you. Yes, a slowing consumer market and spiralling costs to build the car sealed its fate in the end. An important piece of Porsche history nevertheless.
Great video. It looks that are a lot of numbers between Porsche 356 / 901 and 999 that we should know. ;-) For example 948 (928 with aluminium body), 915 and 942. Regards from Germany.
Very cool vid. I do not remember reading much about this program at all - and I consider myself to be something of an uber Porsche aficionado. Btw, as an aside: "Heck" means rear or tail (as you pointed out) and "Bug" (pronounced 'boog') is just the opposite meaning front.
The Porsche Museum seems to roll out the red carpet for you. (German saying) Maybe you could also get access to photos of the successors of the 993? I mean the clay model that looked much more like a traditional 911 than the 996. I once read that such a model was built with clay.
Dare i say th rear end of th “Black Bomber” has a slight indication of inspiration from American muscle cars of tht era. I, think tht i could have somethin to do with th V8 engine. Thoroughly enjoyed th video..
Absolutely, I remember seeing a green/black prototype on RUF's website with ~550 HP. Would have been epic. I don't know why RUF never put that car into production.
@@tamasszabo8824 it was because of emissions and the cost associated with such a small volume they would have been producing. (I visited Ruf 3 years ago and I asked that!)
The 965 was a good concept for the American market and should not have been abandoned. What should have been offered is two packages, one with an opposed cylinder 8 the premium model with a boxer 8, and the super-premium with turbochargers.
Fir the 4wd buttons.. Heck is rear indeed. The other one said Bug? A ships bow is called Bug in german. Just not sure why they would use naval terminology there.
@@9WERKSTV You should do one on the different versions of Slantnose and Flachbaus and climax with the rarity of 'The Package' cars and how at the time, they flopped. EX- Micheal Jordan famously returned his Flachbau for a std 993 Turbo.
Ok then what was the weight distribution in the particular car shown in this video? I thought that the 911 series was already rear heavy which might have contributed to its tendency for the rear to come out too much and spin the car.
Looks like they were saving a bundle on tail lights - damn those are hideous - I'm sure these were test mule pieces, but its fine to poke a little fun here.
Too bad the 965 never made it! Sure, it was in danger of being seen as a kind of "poor man's 959", but nevertheless I think it would be another Porsche legend by now! And here's today's lesson in German 😉: The word at 6:10 is pronounced like "boog" and originally, it describes the front part of a ship, so it's the German counterpart of the English word _bow_ , but when used in context of cars or planes, _nose_ is indeed the better translation (at least that's what I think 🙂).
Pfft. I'll let you all in on a little secret. You can get 2/3rds of a 959, but with a stiffer and better looking bodyshell, and much better software simply by picking up a cheap 996 Turbo - the greatest supercar bargain of all time, without a doubt.
Any rear engine vehicle is a wreck waiting to happen for the vast majority of drivers, especially this thing here ,they're going to bolt a heavy V8 engine behind the rear axle? All that weight hanging out back there like that, if it ever gets away from you there's no getting it back, there's a good reason why they didn't decide to go with this one I'm sure
This Month I went to my St. louis Porsche dealer and bought a 965 Porsche Body in August 2022. A 964 is a C2 C4 Coupe targa or Cab in it's part # form. I've built plenty of conversion 964 Turbos in the 90's, plus Turbo speedsters and Roadsters. A real 965 was introduced in 1991 and Porsche still sells almost all the parts except the Ignition and Frequency valve . The teardrop mirrors of 1991 was the hottest new feature that everyone in LA ordered,.. the 965 Tear drop mirrors. You can order 965 mirrors today for $1500. Your 965 story is a fake news. Your dealer won't sell you a 964 turbo bumper, only a 965 bumper. Furthermore the 964 Name never came from any Porsche Printed literature. Only Parts diagrams. So it's comical to call the car a narrow body turbo when it's the real 965... a 1991 911 C2 Turbo...
Here was the very brief video Porsche did on the car back in 2014, which also mentioned the 965 name. I think THE DRIVE's JF also toured there and met the same guy from this video. They might have also mentioned the 964 Turbo misconception. ruclips.net/video/2P6gTpG0DjA/видео.html
Bug und Heck ...means front and rear. So easy is that. The German "Bug" isn't pronounced "bug" like the insect, it's pronounced like the English double O. Like in Google or root.
How hard would it be to put a Audi 4.2 V8 in a 911 and make it my own build and use parts that I can use from a Audi A8 all wheel drive it worked for them I'm sure somehacked up 911 out there would make a good home built proto type like daily driver
Find a great body 1992, 911 with a blown motor & bad drivetrain and cram in a Chevrolet LS1 mated to a 6 speed Porsche transaxle and you have basically the same thing.
They were right to cancel this car, as it would have muddled and bastardized their whole lineup. It might surprise many people to know that Porsche was usually on the edge of bankruptcy, in those days. They really could not afford any costly mistakes -- and the 965 would have been a big one, IMO.
Every single time I feel like I've seen it all, Porsche says, "well, we have this prototype...."
Ahahaha! You and me both.
So true!!
You are very funny, buddy. "Every single time I feel like I've seen it all..."
Do you really think, that Porsche shares all its prototypes from the last 5 decades with guys like you and me?
They have so many prototypes, mostly from cars which didn't happen as a production version.
Just think of this Panamera short wheel base car last year, which was seen testing at Weissach as "maybe a Porsche 928 modern successor version". Today we all know, that a production car version from this car will never happen!
Porsche have hundreds of such development cars in their secret garages, which aren't made for showing it to the public in every detail.
Porsche is still an engineers company. That's just the job of all these people at Weissach. To work and to think about new things on cars, but not constantly blah blah blah on social media channels like this one!
Exactly that ! As a purebred porsche fanatic , i taught i've seen or heard about every porsche model !
Porsche surprised me once again 😀
So true
Amazing how history repeats itself. There are many V8 converted 911s now. Thanks for posting!
My pleasure
965 is something I’d never heard about. It looks amazing and should have been put into production.
Nearly a decade ago now, I was trying to purchase a Mk1 964 Turbo. I had heard of it called a 965 and made a WTB post. Someone on Rennlist mentioned the misconception. I did a little research and found info on the project V8, water-cooled cars. Ever since, I have been correcting people. This car has been covered before but this had more information than any other video I've seen before. Good job.
Yeah you are completing wrong. 964 is a part number. 965 Porsche part number can be bought today in your dealer as I just bought a complete outer 965 body.
@@scottdunavant345 Did you watch the factory video? :D You are the one who is wrong. Porsche themselves has addressed this on several occasions now. Yes, some of the parts are labeled 965 but that doesn't change that the 964 Turbo is not a 965. The 965 slotted to fall in between the current 911 Turbo (964) and the 959. The 965 was never put into production. /End /Facts
@@PKmode As the Title says, abandon V8 911. The 964 name is just as real as the 965. The 964 is a part number same is the 965. You can’t tell us anything different. Porsche never introduced the 89-94 911 as a 964. The 964 part number does not reference turbo. 965 references turbo therefore 964 turbo is a modified 964 --turbo added to a 3.6 964. 965 is the real 965 turbo. This is usually above people's IQ. But it's not hard to follow.
@@scottdunavant345 You're wrong and that's fine. Porsche factory and enthusiasts widely have accepted the chassis code as a designator. This is not a Porsche exclusive mindset and widely an industry standard. If you want to call it the wrong thing, that's your prerogative.
@@PKmode The 964 is not a trademark name. Either is the 965. Both are part numbers. The 965 references turbo. 964 references non turbo. It's very simple.
Absolutely loved this video Lee , I never knew anything about this project, it’s the very first time I’ve seen anything on the 965 project I’m ashamed to say … thanks for your constant education Fella ….Once again An Awesome video
🙌
Thanks Mark, support and comments like yours are what spur me on. Highly appreciated.
Amazing content, Lee. Keep it up with these ultrarare Porsche legends!
I know Porsche has done lots of interesting things over the years. I had no idea that this was in the works. This is way cool. I hope Porsche does something like this in the future. Thank you.
Without wishing to be pedantic, but it’s not just the 964 Turbo 3.6 which uses “965 xxx xxx” part numbered parts, they’re also used on the 3.3 version (a quick scroll through the PET will show you which). For some strange reason, wheel arch liners are the ones that immediately spring to mind (?!) but there’s many more here-and-there throughout the car. Nice video, thanks.
Thanks Spencer, didn't know that re: 3.3 964T but it makes sense.
Is this then ultimate Porsche channel? I need to watch every video now.
one learns something new every day, thanks.
Love learning about this era of Porsche development and projects. Great work 👍
Hey remember me? I'm the melt. I've got to hand it to you, the access you get to these rare one-of-a-kind cars is impressive!! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Tim, I appreciate that! I think it's time we retired your nickname, unless of course you're fond of it?
Who knew? Rarely have I never heard about a car but today was one of those days! Cheers for a great video x
Thanks Iain! Glad it proved useful.
Great video, there’s a few 911’s with an LS (thinking Hoovie) that prove it works
Excellent content. Way ahead of some of the other UK motoring RUclipsrs
That's very kind of you to say, thank you.
This is a great watch. Well done
It’s not everyday that I learn something new about Porsche. This was new to me! Thanks.
Yet again you always come up with great content for your Channel :-)
Thank you sincerely.
Great history lesson! Never knew of v8 prototype! Thx
Amazing. Thanks Lee. No START UP?! Crazy to imagine what happened at that time in their management circles. Incredible racing successes, yet staggering dropping in sales. Critical conditions from a sustainable point of view. Red lights for a company. So glad that eventually they made the right decisions. RETAINING the 911 and developing the Boxster so that poor bastards like myself can also enjoy the best brand in the Auto Universe, Love from deep dark Africa.
I don't think it's in shape to start, it didn't even look like it had air filters installed
Great video, loving your enthusiasm for the brand and your bright delivery style.
Thank you kindly.
Great content as always 👍👍
This is something every Porschefile needs to know about.
911+ v8. My dream
Another great video Lee. You really seem to be getting some super exclusive content now. Excellent work.
Fabulous vid Lee, very informative and enjoyable.
There was a Ruf RGT8 around 2004 with a Ruf designed 4.5l V8 on the base of 997 and in 2012 one the base of the 991
You pronounce Porsche in the correct manner! Thank you.
Very interesting! I had no idea that existed. There are lots of LS swapped 996’s out there, though if you need to know what a 911 with a water cooled V8 would be like. 😬
Agreed, lots of LS-swapped 996s out there, owing somewhat to the M96 engine's reliability I am sure!
I love how it foreshadows the styling used in the 993 generation.
Superb video what a treat on a Saturday morning! Liked and subbed. Great presenting style.
Something new to me. Didn't know this project ever existed
I adore the 959, but this one is even more visually pleasing, more elegant, with the slightly reduced integrated rear wing and the 968-style front fenders. There should bei body kits with this design!!!!!
That was a blast!
Thanks!
Cool - I had never heard of this project before. I was working in Weissach when they were towards the end of their stillborn 989 project (along with the crappy Footwork/Arrows F1 project). It was a rough time at Porsche!
I'd love to hear some of your stories from Weissach, Terry! Let me know if you'd like to chat please!
@@9WERKSTV sure - always happy to talk about Porsches 😉!
You can always buy a RUF if you want a 911 with a V8.
Awesome!, I have seen prototype photos of the 965 before, and knew Porsche had one left, but this must be the first video of the car itself!. It's weird, the interior is definitely 964 with some G-series touches (which makes sense since they were both in development at the same time), but the exterior definitely feels like a 993/959 cross (the front particularly looks like my 993 4S), I wonder if Tony Hatter drew inspiration from the 965 as well as the 959 in regards to the front end....
I think there was an accepted homogeny in design language for the front of Porsches at the time: 928/993/959/964/965 all appear to have those full-width twin slats at the front, all but the 964 having sloped headlights too. In my previous interview with Mr Hatter (also on my channel) he did say inspiration for the 993's nose came from the 959, I assume therefore it is the same with the 965 but would have to ask!
Very good summary. Thanks. I knew of the 965, but not all that detail. It was 'likely' cancelled as it was during the most difficult years for Porsche late 80's early 90's as the 87 crash occured and they knew that they would not get the numbers. Also keep in mind Porsche's were a lot dearer then as everything was hand made, not like today with half of the factory using machines and they are cheaper (wage:purchase cost ratio has improved massively).
Thank you. Yes, a slowing consumer market and spiralling costs to build the car sealed its fate in the end. An important piece of Porsche history nevertheless.
Really interesting - thanks. 🙂
Glad you enjoyed it!
Finally! I been schooled!
Well, everyday is a school day for us mere mortals!
Great video. It looks that are a lot of numbers between Porsche 356 / 901 and 999 that we should know. ;-) For example 948 (928 with aluminium body), 915 and 942. Regards from Germany.
Very cool vid. I do not remember reading much about this program at all - and I consider myself to be something of an uber Porsche aficionado.
Btw, as an aside: "Heck" means rear or tail (as you pointed out) and "Bug" (pronounced 'boog') is just the opposite meaning front.
What a stunning car.
@4:58 Um, 290 km/h is actually 180 mph or 179.8 to be exact.
Thanks for the quick maths!
The Porsche Museum seems to roll out the red carpet for you. (German saying) Maybe you could also get access to photos of the successors of the 993? I mean the clay model that looked much more like a traditional 911 than the 996. I once read that such a model was built with clay.
Great story/reveal nicely presented without today's competing presenter theatricals!
Crisp presentation. Sub 👍
Great history lesson !
wow, such a ausome artical
I always thought that the RUF RGT-8 is the only V8-powered Porsche 911. Never know this internal project exist at all!
Dare i say th rear end of th “Black Bomber” has a slight indication of inspiration from American muscle cars of tht era. I, think tht i could have somethin to do with th V8 engine. Thoroughly enjoyed th video..
Great content 👍
Thank you
Superbe video. But why RUF developed a V8?
Cool vid but that unsteady hand at the camera LOL
Very interesting 🙂👍
Thank you.
Wow, great history here! Got me reminiscing on Ruf's RGT-8, another beast never to be...
Oof, that would make for a good video!
Absolutely, I remember seeing a green/black prototype on RUF's website with ~550 HP. Would have been epic. I don't know why RUF never put that car into production.
@@tamasszabo8824 it was because of emissions and the cost associated with such a small volume they would have been producing. (I visited Ruf 3 years ago and I asked that!)
@@bojolley250 Thanks for the info!
The 965 was a good concept for the American market and should not have been abandoned. What should have been offered is two packages, one with an opposed cylinder 8 the premium model with a boxer 8, and the super-premium with turbochargers.
It's clearly inspired by Rod Simpson and Renegade Hybrids! Well, maybe not not - but those were my HS dream cars in the '80s.
I'm seeing elements of that in the 996T.
Amazing, new sub here
Awesome, thank you!
Hoovie has one of those! :)
That was great.
Cheers!
lovely
Nice!
Ive seen k swapped 911s but i would like to see a ls v8 modded 911 though . A few turbos wouldnt go astray either .
I assume it had a 01E gearbox of some sort. :)
So Tyler Hoover wasn't that far off with his Apollo 911 conversion. :)
Whatever happened to RUFs V8?
The front and rear bumper are also reminiscent of the 968.
"What a 911 platform with a V8 engine would have been like" just ask Tyler Hoover what Apollo 911 is like.
Fir the 4wd buttons.. Heck is rear indeed. The other one said Bug? A ships bow is called Bug in german.
Just not sure why they would use naval terminology there.
Big luv lee sic vid
Cheers Daz!
Awesome! Can you do a vid on the 58 flatnose non pop up headlight cars?
Oof, will need to research those!
@@9WERKSTV You should do one on the different versions of Slantnose and Flachbaus and climax with the rarity of 'The Package' cars and how at the time, they flopped. EX- Micheal Jordan famously returned his Flachbau for a std 993 Turbo.
Ok then what was the weight distribution in the particular car shown in this video? I thought that the 911 series was already rear heavy which might have contributed to its tendency for the rear to come out too much and spin the car.
Isn't this is the 959 chassis?
Great video Lee - keep this level of content up please. Great for #porschaholics
Looks like they were saving a bundle on tail lights - damn those are hideous - I'm sure these were test mule pieces, but its fine to poke a little fun here.
That’s the deepest of deep dives.
I always wondered why not a flat 8? A 4 litre flat 8?
Audi V8 engine , 3,6 PT or 4,2 ABH .
Too bad the 965 never made it! Sure, it was in danger of being seen as a kind of "poor man's 959", but nevertheless I think it would be another Porsche legend by now!
And here's today's lesson in German 😉: The word at 6:10 is pronounced like "boog" and originally, it describes the front part of a ship, so it's the German counterpart of the English word _bow_ , but when used in context of cars or planes, _nose_ is indeed the better translation (at least that's what I think 🙂).
Thanks indeed for the German lesson (as I myself am still trying to grasp the English language at times!). Genuinely, great insight, much appreciated.
Cool 😎
Why are you referring to the 959 as the goat?
It looks fantastic, wish they made it. Not that it matters, I wouldnt be able to afford one.
Pfft. I'll let you all in on a little secret. You can get 2/3rds of a 959, but with a stiffer and better looking bodyshell, and much better software simply by picking up a cheap 996 Turbo - the greatest supercar bargain of all time, without a doubt.
Wow twin clutch in 1990
Any rear engine vehicle is a wreck waiting to happen for the vast majority of drivers, especially this thing here ,they're going to bolt a heavy V8 engine behind the rear axle? All that weight hanging out back there like that, if it ever gets away from you there's no getting it back, there's a good reason why they didn't decide to go with this one I'm sure
This Month I went to my St. louis Porsche dealer and bought a 965 Porsche Body in August 2022. A 964 is a C2 C4 Coupe targa or Cab in it's part # form. I've built plenty of conversion 964 Turbos in the 90's, plus Turbo speedsters and Roadsters. A real 965 was introduced in 1991 and Porsche still sells almost all the parts except the Ignition and Frequency valve . The teardrop mirrors of 1991 was the hottest new feature that everyone in LA ordered,.. the 965 Tear drop mirrors. You can order 965 mirrors today for $1500. Your 965 story is a fake news. Your dealer won't sell you a 964 turbo bumper, only a 965 bumper. Furthermore the 964 Name never came from any Porsche Printed literature. Only Parts diagrams. So it's comical to call the car a narrow body turbo when it's the real 965... a 1991 911 C2 Turbo...
In the end he asks, what would a V8 911 be like? Worse than the regular one. Imagine 20-80 weight distribution?!?!?
Haha. Maybe will alter distribution by 2% units But 4WD will add more up front again.
Here was the very brief video Porsche did on the car back in 2014, which also mentioned the 965 name. I think THE DRIVE's JF also toured there and met the same guy from this video. They might have also mentioned the 964 Turbo misconception.
ruclips.net/video/2P6gTpG0DjA/видео.html
Bug und Heck
...means front and rear.
So easy is that.
The German "Bug" isn't pronounced "bug" like the insect, it's pronounced like the English double O. Like in Google or root.
How hard would it be to put a Audi 4.2 V8 in a 911 and make it my own build and use parts that I can use from a Audi A8 all wheel drive it worked for them I'm sure somehacked up 911 out there would make a good home built proto type like daily driver
Fascinating but who really wants a v8 in a 911 over a flat 6…..just not right.
Luckily we never had the choice…
Porsche 9 69 Nice. 😏
Call me when Porsche produces a FLAT 8 again 😬
I was hoping it wasn't another LS swap...
RUF RGT-8.
Too bad we couldn't hear it
😱😱😱
Find a great body 1992, 911 with a blown motor & bad drivetrain and cram in a Chevrolet LS1 mated to a 6 speed Porsche transaxle and you have basically the same thing.
They were right to cancel this car, as it would have muddled and bastardized their whole lineup. It might surprise many people to know that Porsche was usually on the edge of bankruptcy, in those days. They really could not afford any costly mistakes -- and the 965 would have been a big one, IMO.