These are some of the topics that brought me to read the gospel and accept Christ.... then I joined a reformed church... what a journey it has been. I am thankful for everything but reformed people will openly say things like "yeah we don't really pay attention to all that" haha. It's been fun. Looking forward to sharing and learning more! God bless!
I have had more Christians break fellowship with me over this question than any other. What a blessing to hear someone not ashamed to clearly explain what the Bible so simply teaches. Unfortunately, this turns out to be a litmus test among acceptable Christianity. You are not allowed to believe such things or speak such things. Always blessed by Douglas's teaching.
@@johnmoss4624 Exactly, but the point is that it's got a lot of unwritten history which should make us question the religion of science's explanations and histories
Doug believes that the Nephilim were real and rejects the Sethite theory. I knew I loved him for a reason. What a chad. We would love to interview this guy.
I've known about the Nephilim since I was a little kid. This 12-minute talk has moved me from casual skeptic to firm believer... Wow. This is the best biblical reasoning I've ever seen by far.
Just found your channel by way of a dear brother in the Lord. You speak with anointed wisdom which provokes greater pursuit of study and meditation towards and on our Father’s infallible word. God Bless.
Someone been reading Michael Heiser? ;-) Great stuff and encouraging to see a leader acknowledge the supernatural elements here! Well done sir, well done!
These views existed long before Heiser. Idk why his fans assume that everybody who holds them read from him. The average person reading Gen 6 comes to the same conclusions.
@@blanktrigger8863 Sorry, but I do not get what you are saying here. What I was doing was making a quip; since Heiser has come into the forefront in the last couple of years, talking about Genesis 6. Granted, it's not a terribly funny quip, but that was all that was intended.
As a lifetime skeptic regarding the proper and correct understanding of the sparse references to giants and nephilim in the Bible, I found your discussion to be excellent and engaging, but I remain a skeptic regarding the topic of giants. Thumbs up for most of your other discussions!
I have started reading Genesis as a genetic memory left for future generations partly to know what not to do. In this case playing with our genetic code.
This is an interesting position on Gen 6 from a reformed theologian. When I was converted a few years ago I found Chuck Missler very helpful, I've since realized that much of his theology was misguided, but I always found his assessment of Gen 6 to be on point. It's nice to see Doug Wilson making the same points!
Yes! I second Unseen Realm. You can watch a summary of it on Faithlife TV to get oriented, but do yourself a favor and read the book. It’s such a blessing!
Doug, I love the content you produce and I was recently pointed to your channel. Question: do you ascribe to Steve Quayle’s research on the subject of giants and nephilim?
I’ve seen you say this multiple times, outside of being a Wesleyan Arminian, what argument do you have to back up this assertion? It’s dangerous ground to charge someone on unfounded grounds.
" But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mat 24:37. Pastor Wilson hits the nail on the head as per the context, similarities and symbolism of all the signs of Jesus's Second Coming! It is mind blowing to see the Scriptures fulfilled before our very eyes. All we see on the news should be an encouragement as the stage is set for a fulfillment of "but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits." Dan 11:32
But I’m guessing you disagree with his eschatological views right? Since he holds to partial-preterist(postmill) views and doesn’t believe what is happening now is not what Matt 24 is saying
@@wolverine114 To be honest I do not know much about Pastor Wilson on the post millennium believes. I just find his voice of one crying in the wilderness refreshing among a morass of lukewarm, compromised organized religious church leaders. Very few are sounding the alarm denouncing and confronting evil these days.
@Caleb P as a postmil guy, I recently fell down the rabbit hole of the Nephilim project. I’d really encourage you to check out the Blurry Creatures podcast with Doug Riggs. They talk about the gene wars and a ton of things that leads you down the rabbit hole
Thank you Pastor Wilson for touching on the subject of the nephilim and for mentioning the Book of Enoch, it would be amazing if more preachers at the very least touched upon this subject because it is paramount that Christians understand the implications. As Jesus said in Matthew 24:37-39, “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.” (NKJV) It is no coincidence that Jesus said this in this way. Thank you Pastor, and hopefully, we will be blessed with more soon! 🙏🏼
I somehow missed that passage in Jude in relation to the nephilim.(!).. and never put 2 n 2 together the word "dwelling" in Jude and the same word used in 2Corinthians 5:2 referring to the body.. This is a great find! In Jude, I always interpreted "dwelling" as a place, not a thing. This is why I missed it. Thanks for this insight!
Execellent, is wonderful to find what seems to be a channel presenting the full counsel of the Word. Having said that, I would have to offer this challenge: so many folks who take the ‘God-means-what-He-says’ approach to the reading of Scripture (indeed, the correct approach), only take this approach as far as is really comfortable, typically drawing the line at cosmology. The Bible is clearly not a heliocentric book, yet one who is otherwise a Bible-matter-of-factualist won’t hesitate for a moment to impose a foreign cosmology on the Bible. One example of many: Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, not the earth to stop rotating. You say “Joshua didn’t know any better.” That’s fine, but you must then apply the same rationale to every other apparent instance of scientific ignorance in Scripture. In so pursuing a delicate tap dance of selective parsing soon the authority of Scripture unravels.
Luther, and Calvin both affirmed that it was the sun that moved. The view of the early Christians, and the Jews of antiquity was that the world is flat, and covered by a firmament. Even if I do not understand exactly the how and means of God and His creation, I boldly affirm the truth of it, as revealed in scripture. Warts and all, against all comers, Sola Scriptura. I cannot prove my beliefs concerning mass media, the government, and any role they have played in a conspiracy to undermine the protestant reformation. But, the fruit of the Galileo, and Charles Darwin, is the weak half measured belief of the lukewarm churches today. I know how easy it is to create footage, or to photoshop. Therefore, the testimony of NASA, I do not accept. I am not weak, as to turn from the Word, and I agree with the ancients, until Christ returns to show me otherwise Himself, that infact, the Earth, and the Cosmos are as the scripture describes. This I believe, warts and all. The World is less than 7,000 years old, the lights above all orbit above, and we were created in the beginning by God in a literal Eden. All the words, be they about talking serpents, or talking donkeys, if the words are not poetry or parable, then they are truth. It has taken me a very very long time to come to the position to which I hold, and hold dearly. I was not raised in a Christian home, watching vegie tales, and being "brainwashed" in children's Sunday school. On the contrary, I was brainwashed as a child in the public school system, fed on lies about human evolutionism, and astronomy, and in the science classes, I was always an A+ student. However, that I may be viewed, (by fellow christens, or those outside of the Ecclesia), as ignorant and uninformed, I avow the Word, and the full truth of the scriptures, warts and all.
@@princekermit0 Zed- me too. Exactly as you described. Thank you for your comment. "If I have told you earthly things and ye believe me not, how shall ye believe me if I tell you of heavenly things?" - JESUS
This brings several questions to mind. Is Joshua causing this to happen. As in Moses was given the ability to cast his rod down and have it turn into a serpent. Or is Joshua asking for it to happen. With God the one actually doing it. It is possible that if Joshua is the one doing it. The nature of some of the abilities. Do not require the person to have proper technical understanding of the mechanics. Just to state what they want to happen from their perspective. example. Very few people know any of the programming languages that underpin our electronic devices. It is also possible that things don't work the way we think they work. That we ourselves are nearly as or just as ignorant about what is really happening as Joshua.
I greatly appreciate your Biblical defense of this view. Since I'm still unconvinced, could you help me with the following: 1) After the verse about the sons of God "taking wives" of the daughters of men, why does it say "the Lord said, 'My Spirit shall not strive with man forever'" (v3). If it was the fallen angel's fault and the text suggests that they _took_ them, not that men were offering their daughters, why would God's anger burn against man? 2) In verse 1 we read that the sons of God "saw" that the daughters of men are "beautiful," wouldn't that imply appreciation and sexual attraction of some sort? Angel's were all created at once, they do not procreate, even if they were to assume a human/giant's body, and want to copulate with humans, I think that this still won't justify this attraction. The motivation seems to be lust, rather than a grand plan to prevent the Messiah from coming... 3) If the flood intended to destroy the Nephelim (supposed hybrids between men and angels), which were Satan's plan to thwart the promised "seed of the woman," why are there Nephelim after the flood? What would have stopped Satan from continuing right where he left off after the flood? 4) Wouldn't such a view make man the victim rather than the culprit? Verse 5 describes the wickedness of man, not that of angels. Verse 6 describes God's commitment to destroying man, not angels. 5) Since in Gen.1 we see how God creates everything according to its kind, with a procreative limit within its own kind, how can hybrids procreate with humans? Wouldn't that be in a way affirming macro-evolution and one kind "evolving" into another? Furthermore, the offspring of such would not carry Adam's sin. I am genuinely interested in biblical answers to those questions. Thank you.
i would add a couple more questions to yours too. 1. How can an angel have the creative power to make distinct dna and successfully procreate? 2. In the NT, it refers to believers as sons of God. this is why i hold the sethite view. 3. so out of all angels who rebelled, only some made giants and were cast into tartarus (when did this happen?), the rest were allowed to remain on earth and scourge humanity?
I have no association with Doug Wilson, but I'll give it a shot. 1) & 4) seem to revolve around the same issue, which is that humanity must have been involved in the sin as well, whether they were involved in initiating it (the Tower of Babel may be a second attempt at that) or whether the corruption spread into humanity. Jennifer Mugrage's novel "The Long Guest" does an excellent job of depicting that sort of corruption - its appeal and how it can spread. As to why it refers to men rather than angels, that would be because it is written for men. We learn from Peter and Jude that He did in fact punish the angels involved as well. 2) seems to be a speculative objection. That is, how are we to know what sort of temptations angelic beings might face? And, of course, the reference in Jude indicates that angels did in fact pursue sexual sin (they "went after strange flesh" "in the same way [as Sodom and Gomorrah]"), so I don't see how we could rule out the idea that they can experience lust or sexual temptation. 3) I would assume that the term Nephilim used by the spies in Numbers 13 simply means that they saw giants. The term may have come to be used for giants in general, or the spies may have been intending to make a reference to the events of Genesis 6 in order to heighten the sense of danger. The spies, after all, may not be entirely reliable in their accounts. As to what would have stopped Satan from trying the same thing again, well apparently God put a stop to it, as indicated in 2 Peter 2 and Jude. 5a) The Bible says that God made each according to its kind, but I don't see where it says that it is physically impossible for different kinds to interbreed. It would not imply any affirmation of macro evolution because it involves intent and intelligent activity, just as a breeding program or genetic engineering doesn't demonstrate evolution but rather the ability of creatures to manipulate the creation. 5b) Regarding the transmission of Adam's sin, I don't see how that would be negated, given that all such hybrids would still have Adam as an ancestor and as their federal head.
@@rayortiz6189 1. When angels appear in physical form in the Old Testament they appear to have fully functioning bodies. They wear clothes, struggle with people, and eat food. If they have muscles, bones, skin, a nervous system, hair, and digestive organs, is there some reason to think that they didn't have reproductive organs? 2. And yet, it is not consistently (or even typically) used that way in the Old Testament, so apparently the phrase can carry different meanings. 3. Apparently, but we're only told that it happened, not when or how many. I don't see how that would weaken the position.
@@benjaminledford6111 Thanks for the detailed reply. I accept 1-5a as possible explanations to those question. If have to be honest, the biggest problem with my current view is Jude. If Jude was not there, I don't think I would even be considering another possibility (just from Genesis or 2 Peter). With regards to 5b, here's the thing. Christ is the first Man (Adam) to be born without the "desire of man" and is therefore called the "2nd Man" and "last Adam" (Rom.5 & 1Cor.15). Even though he was born through the agency of a sinful human mother, he did not receive Adam's original sin because He wasn't under his headship, which alludes to the fact that original sin (in some mysterious way) is passed down by the man. A potential army of hybrid men/angels not having Adam's sin isn't the problem. After all, they would carry the sinful nature of their demonic "fathers," but would have no possibility of redemption. They would essentially be different races though. Which means that Christ cannot rightly be said to be the "second Man" because there would have been many "second men" before Him, if you see what I mean...? Unless the "second" is not to be taken literally.
@@georgerassovsky3733 Christ being the second Man or second Adam is reference to His status as representative though. Adam as our forefather and representative put us all under the sin curse, Christ took on the mantle of representative and because of His perfection and righteousness became sin for us. Your #2 question, Here's a really strange passage for you to consider. In I Corinthians 11:2-16, what does it mean in verse 10 that women ought to be under authority because of the angels? #3 After the flood the most drastic change was life expectancy. Pre-flood mankind lived for centuries and was nearly completely corrupted by the Nephilim, but after the flood people are barely making it past 100 years. This has to be deliberate on God's part, As for your #4 question, Mankind is both the victim and culprit for being tempted by Satan and believing him in the first place. Divine beings in rebellion against God are already committed to destruction. These are just a few of my thoughts that differ from what other people have said. I believe the Nephilim are human/divine being hybrids, and while the evidence convinces me it does have to be pieced together with extra-biblical sources. The reason I accept the book of Enoch in this matter is because Jude and Peter both reference it. Whether it's true or not, ultimately it doesn't change our responsibilities towards God and sharing the Gospel with the lost. Someday when we get to Heaven we'll find out for certain one way or the other.
He is using the names and reference from the book of Enoch. This is really good, and I would love to hear what he has to say about the book, because it is quoted in the NT.
After hearing this, I don't know why I ever held to the sons of Seth & the daughters of Cain explanation. I have also wondered how bad must it have been for God to the destroy the earth, when the rampant sin of today, (in defiance of, not ignorance of God's laws) hasn't brought Jesus back to end things? The Nephalim being human/angel hybrids would explain a lot. Thanks Doug.
What sense does it make for us believers, to believe in the supernatural creation account, and the supernatural resurrection, but almost none of the supernatural events in between?
Excellent to see a teacher with a correct view of Gen 6 and Jude (and even to make mention of 1 Enoch!) Great work. I do have one disagreement: in 1 Peter 3 when Jesus goes to Hades to 'make proclamation to those spirits in prison', I believe (and the Orthodox Church teaches) this is in two parts - a pronouncement of victory to the nephilim and the fallen angels, and a pronouncement of mercy and salvation to those people who died before Christ but would have chosen Him and His way. Recall that this place is divided in two - Torment and Paradise, or Tartarus and Elysium, etc. To which would our Lord's message have been salvation, and to which would our Lord's message have been damnation? The very same proclamation can be received differently by different souls - or spirits.
1 Enoch, it's not canon but it ties all these threads together. Not necessarily Biblical truth, but excellent context, and those who wrote the New Testament were almost certainly familiar with it (if not directly quoting it in Jude's case).
It was noted, “Nephilim where the gigantic offspring…giants” but what's the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word "giants" in English Bibles?
Really enjoy these. I applaud your calling out the "sons of Seth" take for the dodge that it is. However, one question I need help with. How are/were the Nephilim the off-spring of the union depicted in Gen. 6:1 if, per Gen. 6:4, they were already there? (Genesis 6:4 (ESV) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward (Num. 13:33), when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.) Furthermore, the text says, "These (the Nephilim, evidently) were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown." Thanks for your (or anyone else's) help here.
When looking into the definition of the word translated as old. Words like everlasting, perpetual, and evermore are often used as translations for the same word. 2 possible reasons for this. 1) Physical. The Nephilim may have had bodies that did not age into old age. i have heard it said the Nephilim had to have their heads cut off to be truly killed. i believe the Nephilim are the group of people that God told the Jews to wipe out every single one. 2) Spiritual. As i understand it. The Nephilim are considered the main entities responsible for possession. When they die, either their spirit does not go to "hell" as a normal humans do. Or they are able to leave hell and dwell on earth in spirit form. i tend to think about Jesus sending the legion of spirits into pigs, upon their request. It seems possible, that upon being cast out. They would have gone to hell unless directed otherwise.
Nephilim weren't already there, the contextual flow of the narrative is about the sons of God and daughters of men: their attraction, marriages, mating, and offspring so there's no break from that to artificially insert a passing reference to some guys who happened to be around and about whom nothing more is said. Rather, we're being told that Nephilim were around as a result of when the sons came into the daughters, etc. "Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward" of when? Num. 13:33 is just an "evil report" by utterly unreliable guys whom God rebuked: they just made up a tall-tale. Any concept of post-flood Nephilim implies that God failed: He meant to be rid of the via the flood but couldn't get the job done, He must have missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc., and now you'd have to invent an un-biblical tall-tale about how they made it past the flood.
@@KenAmmi-Shalom Your interpretation seems to focus around your desire to avoid God failing. There is more than one way to view this. The Sons of God defied God. God wipes out their work. Then after having been warned. After their work is destroyed. They start up again. Just because Genesis 6 makes you uncomfortable. Does not justify ignoring what it is saying. You need to seek understanding rather than dodge what is being said. After Numbers 13:33 We see God helps the Jewish people fight the giants. We see in Exodus 23:28 Hornets are sent forth to drive them out. This would not need to be done on large scale if the foe was not problematic. We see in Deuteronomy 3:11 the kings bed was over 13 feet long and made of iron. 400 years after Moses. David fights Goliath who is a giant. Thought to be between 7-9 feet tall. Goliaths equipment is very heavy he is able to fight effectively with massively heavy equipment. Saul was very tall for a Jew, and he was afraid of goliath. When Moses goes before pharoh. God is using that event to also bring judgement on the Sons of God in the spiritual realm. Those Sons, are locked up deep in the pit as far below the normal first hell, as the first hell is from the living. Know that uncomfortable parts in the bible. Are not mistakes. They are potential rewards to those who seek.
The answer, I'd suggest, is in the text itself - this occurred 'in those days' (pre) and 'also after that' (post), hence the events leading to Genesis 11 and humanity seeking to create a 'babeli' under Nimrod, one of the Nephilim.
@@howardbabcomso then the flood was a failure. Was the flood not brought down to irradiate the world of the sin that got out of control? And if it was to happen again… seems like the flood was pointless.
@@wolverine114 Not at all. The flood is meant to convey the same message to us as Jesus teaches in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, or in what Paul states in Romans 1 - you can put the magnitude of the splendours of creation before some men, or even a resurrection, and they'll just wallow in ignorance, but you can put it before others, and they'll turn in worship.
What has been is what will be and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun. Is there a thing of which it is said, ‘See this is new? It has been already in ages before us, but there is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be remembrance of things yet to happen among those who come after.”
To the right of the channel's title, to the right of subscribe, to the right of thumbs up or down, to the right of share, you should see three dots which is a drop down menu that includes opening a transcript. It's AI created so may contain errors and isn't formatted but it's there. You can then left click just to the left of the first word and drag all the way to the end, or pick certain statements. That will include the timestamps, which you can do away with by clicking on the three dots to the right of the word transcript that will appear when it opens.
For those wishing to learn more on the subjects I highly recommend The Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser and Jonathan Pageau's video on Universal History.
I think Luther's take makes the most sense. These weren't supernatural but overly proud and boastful people who had an inflated sense of self. I would refer you to his Commentary on Genesis the Beginning thu the Flood.
Does anyone have any speculations about how there were Nephilim here after the flood? "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that..." Genesis 6:4 KJV
It happened again after the flood. See Daniel 2:43 and think of donkeys and horses procreating mules. And think of how Mules cannot have further offspring. See also "Liger"
In Numbers 13:33, ten of the spies were attempting to discourage the people from entering the promised land. They resorted to spreading exaggerated and false reports about the land, including the claim that the sons of Anak descended from the nephilim. To put it in legal terms, in a court, the spies who made this claim would be considered "unreliable witnesses" and their testimony would not be taken seriously. So if you discount Numbers 13:33, there's no reason to think that any nephilim survived the flood or that it happened again after the flood.
Giants died during the flood but their spirits still influenced men who went away from God. It's probably occultic in nature that spawned new giants, though they werent as powerful or high in stature.
I thought we fundamentalist southern Baptists were the only ones that actually believe the bible says and means what the bible says and means. All jokes aside, it really is nice to hear someone from another more "distinguished" denomination confirm what we have been saying for generations in my family at least. Simply. The sons of God came to the earth and married women as they chose. There were giants in those days. both before and after. Thus the command of God to Joshua to wipe out entirely certain Canaanite tribes. they were corrupted flesh. I'm new to checking out Dougs stuff, bought his book Mere Christendom. Really good book. Not a post mill guy at all, but i do fundemntally agree that we Christians need to get up, get active and take back our culture & institutions and disciple the nations.
“Why would the entire ancient world concur with the reading that this was a celestial earthly connection, from Josephus to Beowolf to the book of Enoch.. from responsible historical accounts to oddball books?”
Question: how come there were still Nephilm giants on the earth after the flood? And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. Numbers 13:33
In Numbers 13:32-33, ten of the spies were attempting to discourage the people from entering the promised land. They resorted to spreading exaggerated and false reports about the land, including the claim that the sons of Anak descended from the nephilim. To put it in legal terms, in a court, the spies who made this claim would be considered "unreliable witnesses" and their testimony would not be taken seriously.
Very good. The LORD is always true! If the clouds are full of rain, They empty themselves upon the earth; And if a tree falls to the south or the north, In the place where the tree falls, there it shall lie. Ecclesiastes 11:3
Can you teach on biblical cosmology? I can’t get behind a slinging earth spinning in 5 directions at 5 speeds into a ever expanding universe. Too much scripture points to a earth that is foundational and complete. I don’t like the term flat earth bc it’s a buzz word but can’t get behind a spinning ball/pear/ oblong ever-changing description of the earth. Thanks.
Let me start out by saying that I like and respect Doug but...... I am not sure that his interpretation of Gen 6 is correct?? Is it possible to have a hybrid species of human/angelic beings?? How about human/ape beings?? (and would these beings have human or animal souls or some sort of soul-mixture, same applies to the Nephilim) Is it possible for Christ's human nature to be ubiquitous and yet for him to remain truly human?? (ala Roman Catholicism or Lutheranism view of the " Eucharist") was Christ truly human or was he some sort of mixed divine-human being, where his human nature was deified, a 3rd category of being?? Are human-angelic beings some sort of a 3rd kind of being or species?? I am reformed (Baptist version) and I am not anti-supernatural but I have argued with many RC's and Lutherans about the Lord's Supper, that Christ's human body cannot be ubiquitous and yet remain truly human.....human nature is not ubiquitous! I am not saying that I fully/truly understand Gen 6 but I have concerns when mixing different "kinds" of "beings or species" I am sure that creatures reproduce after their own kinds.....it sez that somewhere in scripture
Answer to the first question, yes. The opposition to this doesn't come from the biblical worldview but usually from a platonic/gnostic one. The answer to the Eucharist question is that the two issues are unrelated. The answer to the human and ape question is that genetic manipulation/engineering could definitely pull it off - but more importantly, the nephilim status doesn't seem to be genetic, like being "biracial" let's say.
@Caleb P I believe that angels can APPEAR as humans but are not human! They possess a different DNA and genetic code (not that angels have DNA etc) Angels are not physical beings like us human beings, they do not reproduce, nor are they capable of reproduction.....
4:20 The issue here is that Nephilim doesn't mean giant nor does the Bible ever make the claim that Nephilim=Giant. Nephilim can mean fallen ones, or it can mean "ones who fall" thus possibly implying people who raid of people (to fall upon, which is a phrased used repeatedly in the bible). The assumption that it means giants only arose when Greek and Roman culture started to become obsessed with Giant based literature, so we see lots of Giant based literature spring up (Book of Enoch) making bold claims that Nephilim were 4000+ feet tall, fed on humans, devoured the landscape, and that the reason for the flood was to wipe out the Nephilim. It's almost its own genre during that time period. Numbers, also calls the people in the land of Canaan Nephilim, which means that Nephilim is just a category for taller people, not some sort of demigod/hellspawn as described in Book of Enoch and other giant based literature (which are also non-canonical, but great for knowing pop-culture of that time period). Ezekiel mentions Nephilim of sorts and in context it seems that they were both still alive and quite human at the time of Ezekiel. This, in my opinion, shows that the concept of Nephilim, at least in Ezekiel's time, doesn't appear to view them as giants, but as raiders who "fall upon" other people. This means that literally ANY group of people that raids or plunders could be a Nephilim of sorts. That being said, this is also a weak argument as then why isn't the term Nephilim used more frequently throughout the Bible? In short, I'm not against the concept of Nephilim meaning tall; the issue is that Nephilim appear repeatedly throughout scripture without having any correlation to human/angel hybrids. You can't have Nephilim without angels, so the fact that Nephilim can show up WITHOUT angels means that angels aren't the determining factor.
May someone please post for the reference on the fortune telling girl possessed by a python spirit? (I suppose it’s in acts but I’m trying to find it faster)
"The ultimate choice is between Christ or chaos." Tragically we are seeing chaos enablement in many of the Western societies that guarantees future conflict.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Hebrews 1:5 KJV
The Reformed Presbyterian Church of which I am a member, teaches that the sons of God mixing with the daughters of men, has to do with the chosen of God marrying children of Cain. But to my mind, the rest of the surrounding passages along with a plain interpretation of history, it seems more practical to see the sons of God as fallen spiritual beings. My opinion, for whatever it’s worth.
Doug I would like for you to explain why this topic is not more important in the lineage of Jesus. In Genesis 5 it’s clearly telling the lineage of Noah even after the passage it states that “These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.” Genesis 6:9 ESV My question how could Jesus be a descendant from Noah’s line if Noah was a descendant from fallen angels?
Yes yes yes yes!! I have held this view a long time and some in the church who are far more prominent than me also do too. But to hear it from Doug's wit and wisdom is just too tasty to take it. Like having the best chocolate cake finally arrive at your house for your annual day of birth. Love the part especially early where he pointed out that it was not the clubbing night life that got us a global flood, but genetic perversity to a new level that did it. That IS what the text says.
Same here. I get confused as to how these angels are able to be married and have relations with women, but in Jude it also says they were kept in “eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment…” so were they thrown down to hell, or were they thrown to earth. Revelation says earth, Isaiah says earth, Jude says “eternal bonds”. I think there’s more to it than what Wilson is saying here. I’m not sure what your stance is on who the “sons of god” are though?
@@wolverine114 while I feel he make a good argument and sons of God reference is the most difficult passage to dispute I believe the verse is speaking of the joining of the godly line to the ungodly line. The Bible gives the line of Cain and Seth but mentions no other offsprings although we know there were many. It seems to be giants after the flood which he doesn’t mention but the term can also mean mighty warrior. Another reason I believe that is in the NT demons posses people but are not stated to have physical bodies. Also if women was made for men how can they procreate with angels? Now for his argument. The passage in Jude seems to be speaking of fallen Angel reserved for judgement and never mentions them under the heart. Sodom the author compares sodom to the false teachers. In 1 Peter that verse state he showed himself to the spirits not Angel while he did not deal the passage about Jesus going to the father. The historian he mentioned could simply be going off the narrative of either 2nd temple or later interpretation. We know that books like Enoch was never considered scripture. While I could be wrong I feel the brother should rethink some of his arguments
@@joshuadaniels4034 First and foremost, I want to say the issue of the Nephilim being offspring of Cain or offspring of divine beings doesn't impact what Christians are supposed to be doing in sharing the Gospel and following after Christ. It's just something that I find incredibly fascinating to discuss. That being said I firmly believe that these were divine beings that intermingled with human women. One of the evidences giving veracity to the idea of a global flood is that so many different cultures from all over the world have some version of the flood story. Likewise, cultures from all around the world have ancient stories of 'demi-gods' or half-demons. I think this is evidence for the Nephilim being the spawn of unholy unions between angels and humans. When God promises that the seed of the woman will crush the head of the serpent, how could the Devil attempt to circumvent this? The absolute corruption of the genepool would seem logical, so he attempted to lead mankind physically and spiritually into such a complete state of rebellion against God that no seed of woman could arise. In the book of Jude, what makes the angels being kept in chains of darkness special? What could they have possibly done to be imprisoned by God, when Satan is still free to roam about? To me the only explanation that seems satisfactory is that aspects of the Book of Enoch are true, and the angels imprisoned awaiting judgment are the ones who took on physical bodies and were destroyed by the flood along with their offspring. Post-flood, the divine beings in rebellion once again attempt to pollute mankind's genepool to breed them out, but there's one major change. Humans no longer have lifespans of nearly 1,000 years. This part is purely speculation, but it would seem the fallen angels could no longer gain the same type of physical influence only allowing for a few small clans to arise. These post-flood clans are first mentioned in Genesis 14 and the last of them in the Biblical record are the descendants of Anak, the Anakim, which fall to David in 1 Samuel 17. As for the book of Enoch itself, it's obviously not Scripture, but a book about history doesn't have to be part of Scriptural canon to be true. Considering that both Jude and Peter quote from it indicates to me that it should be believed in respect to this aspect of the spiritual realm.
Pastor Wilson: Thank you for this. I do have a sincere question. It seems that God made all living creatures "AFTER THEIR KIND". We recognize dogs and cats can't mix. But angels and mankind, who are different KINDS can? And I'm trying to think this through theologically...if SIN is passed down through our FEDERAL HEAD ...ADAM... then these NEPHILIM would not have original sin as they didn't come from our FEDERAL HEAD? ("As in ADAM ALL DIE") Also, the definition of a VIRGIN is a woman who has never known a MAN! Any way we slice it...these women were impregnated by a SPIRIT BEING...so technically these also would be "VIGIN BIRTHS". I'm wondering if this view doesn't attack the VIRGIN BIRTH of CHRIST? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you sir!
I truly think my faith comes from the grace of God cuz I never believed evolution and even in school I was angry in the religion class when my colleagues said "there is no God" - thanks to their atheist parents 😂 it was not my own cleverness oh no - it was designed in me by the creator. The creation and the Bible are pointing to God - all we have to do is being faithful and thankful. And parents tell your children to pray.
This is interesting but how would a GIANT spirit impregnate a tiny body? Nobody talks about the physicality of it. More so, how would a woman's womb and entire body for that matter support the gestation and growth of a giant nephilim?
So an angel being one kind and a human being another kind can procreate? So like a cat and a dog being two different kinds can procreate? And the giants after the flood?
Right, Genesis 6 was calling out believers "sons of God" for joining with unbelievers "daughters of men". A theme we see multiple times throughout the bible.
@@Eternal-Security I’ve heard it all. Even that they possessed man to procreate with women. So how would a possessed man produce angel sperm and how would angel sperm pregnate a woman of a different kind?
Are you assuming some sort of grasp of celestial biology? Because you cannot explain it biologically, you are eliminating it biblically. Its completely wacky to our 21st century "scientific" minds. Agree there. But like Doug said, this kind of story is prevalent in the ancient world. And it is also how many before us interpreted it. I'm gonna go with what the text says, regardless of questions I have.
Pastor Wilson, Genesis 6:9: “This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.” seems to indicate that in addition to Noah being a righteous man he was “perfect”, or undefiled in his generations. Am I reading something into this when I see it as saying that none of Noah’s hereditary relatives in his genealogy had any of the nephilim’s perverted genetics in their bloodlines? That this was a factor in Noah, and his arkmates being chosen by God to restart the human race undefiled by the nephilim taint and as such Noah and his offspring were pure human genetic stock from which to repopulate the post flood world? It’s amazing to me how many Christian pastors, leaders and church members can be embarrassed by their fellow Christian’s talk about Genesis 6, nephilim, literal 6 day creation, and a worldwide flood, but seem to be comfortable embracing the Marxist ideology of CRT, social justice, even abortion, homosexuality, and transgenderism. There appears to be something disjointed in their theology, or lack there of.
It is possible there may have been others that were not tainted at this time. Likely they did not walk with God. Probably did not have long before their genetics were corrupted as well. i completely agree with the how many things a professed Christian will claim to believe in and yet ignore or run away from topics in the bible that make them uncomfortable. While sanctifying all sorts of unbiblical nonsense.
Yeah, I brought this view to a reformed study through Genesis. I was the only one not holding to the Sethite view. Modern reformed Christians have a truncated view of the supernatural.
Genesis 6 says the reason for the flood was man...not the 'nephilim'. Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Why was man judged for the wickedness of angels, if indeed this was the case ?
I’ve always detested the Seth sons marriage to Cains daughter’s theory. It was like listening to a Christian explain the day age theory while Allegorizing the Adam and Eve narrative.
No, God is holding them both accountable. As the flood was inflicted upon man. You see the same story in the Tower of Babel. God rendered the nations the the sons of God, but also confused the language of man.
Enjoying this video? Check out Doug's book "Mere Fundamentalism" today!
canonpress.com/products/mere-fundamentalism/
Where's Dougs analysis on Ed Litton the and circus that is the SBC?
Finally someone I can point my reformed friends to when they look at me funny because none of their favorite teachers have ever touched this! Thanks!
Seriously. This is good. Love your comments
Michael Heiser: The Unseen Realm and Reversing Hermon
Yes!!!
These are some of the topics that brought me to read the gospel and accept Christ.... then I joined a reformed church... what a journey it has been. I am thankful for everything but reformed people will openly say things like "yeah we don't really pay attention to all that" haha. It's been fun. Looking forward to sharing and learning more! God bless!
@@Mr.Joonzz
That's because, like the Lutherans, we just let some things "sit".... which is really hard for us. 🙂
I have had more Christians break fellowship with me over this question than any other. What a blessing to hear someone not ashamed to clearly explain what the Bible so simply teaches. Unfortunately, this turns out to be a litmus test among acceptable Christianity. You are not allowed to believe such things or speak such things. Always blessed by Douglas's teaching.
In my opinion this nephilim thing raises more questions than it sufficiently answers, but why break fellowship over this? I don't get it.
@@SimonJification I would point out that the scriptures and God are not under any obligation to answer all questions
Insane. They just demonstrate that they weren't worth the effort involved in fellowship anyway.
Sent them the nat geo and science journal articles about the giant dragon man skull and denisovan species being found in human dna.
@@johnmoss4624 Exactly, but the point is that it's got a lot of unwritten history which should make us question the religion of science's explanations and histories
THANK YOU!!! It's SO good to see Christians FINALLY beginning to accept what the text ACTUALLY says!!!!
Doug believes that the Nephilim were real and rejects the Sethite theory. I knew I loved him for a reason. What a chad. We would love to interview this guy.
Brother wilson is a blessing
Yep the first reformed pastor I’ve seen that speaks the truth on these issues
Love it. Thank you for not shying away from these verses.
Refreshing hearing a pastor with an accurate view of Genesis 6.
Amen brother! And dont be afraid of a biblical cosmology ;) great message! God be praised!
I always thought the Nephilim being descendants of Cain made no sense. Doug is never afraid to go against the grain when required.
I've known about the Nephilim since I was a little kid.
This 12-minute talk has moved me from casual skeptic to firm believer...
Wow.
This is the best biblical reasoning I've ever seen by far.
Brother PLEASE check out the Blurry Creatures podcast with Doug Riggs
Just found your channel by way of a dear brother in the Lord. You speak with anointed wisdom which provokes greater pursuit of study and meditation towards and on our Father’s infallible word. God Bless.
Someone been reading Michael Heiser? ;-) Great stuff and encouraging to see a leader acknowledge the supernatural elements here! Well done sir, well done!
Ha! That is now the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear someone referring to “Nephilim”.
These views existed long before Heiser. Idk why his fans assume that everybody who holds them read from him. The average person reading Gen 6 comes to the same conclusions.
@@blanktrigger8863 Of course they did! But it's funnier to mention Heiser and see what kind of reaction one gets! ;-)
@@therealkillerb7643 I doubt that, but it's useful for honor-shame reasons to say so, and so.
@@blanktrigger8863 Sorry, but I do not get what you are saying here. What I was doing was making a quip; since Heiser has come into the forefront in the last couple of years, talking about Genesis 6. Granted, it's not a terribly funny quip, but that was all that was intended.
As a lifetime skeptic regarding the proper and correct understanding of the sparse references to giants and nephilim in the Bible, I found your discussion to be excellent and engaging, but I remain a skeptic regarding the topic of giants. Thumbs up for most of your other discussions!
I have started reading Genesis as a genetic memory left for future generations partly to know what not to do. In this case playing with our genetic code.
...precipitated the flood. Thx for the freebee
I now view all of this as mythology, but I still find it absolutely fascinating to see how all of this is interpreted and brought together.
I love how you explain this
“ The issues that may have precipitated the flood.”👏👏👏👏👏👏😂😂😂👏👏👏👏
I don't get the joke.. what do I miss? I saw Doug grinning as well, so I knew there was something...
@@joostbakker precipitation meaning rain 🌧️ a play on words my friend!
@@thomasavision9997 Ah, I see... English is not my first language 💪🏻
What an amazing video. Great to see someone being honest with the text doing a proper exegesis. 👏🏻
Mere fundamentalism... Great title.
What a brilliant and I believe theologically correct summation of what God's word declares!
Dropping facts,.. wow.
This is an interesting position on Gen 6 from a reformed theologian. When I was converted a few years ago I found Chuck Missler very helpful, I've since realized that much of his theology was misguided, but I always found his assessment of Gen 6 to be on point. It's nice to see Doug Wilson making the same points!
Dr Mike Heiser has some fantastic material on this. Unseen Realm is his major book.
Yes! I second Unseen Realm. You can watch a summary of it on Faithlife TV to get oriented, but do yourself a favor and read the book. It’s such a blessing!
Doug, I love the content you produce and I was recently pointed to your channel. Question: do you ascribe to Steve Quayle’s research on the subject of giants and nephilim?
Heiser is a liberal false teacher. I would caution anyone against him.
I’ve seen you say this multiple times, outside of being a Wesleyan Arminian, what argument do you have to back up this assertion? It’s dangerous ground to charge someone on unfounded grounds.
5:48
God bless you.
Thanks for the explanation on Habatitation = Oiketerion.
Bless you Doug for your jokes.
" But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mat 24:37. Pastor Wilson hits the nail on the head as per the context, similarities and symbolism of all the signs of Jesus's Second Coming! It is mind blowing to see the Scriptures fulfilled before our very eyes. All we see on the news should be an encouragement as the stage is set for a fulfillment of "but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits." Dan 11:32
But I’m guessing you disagree with his eschatological views right? Since he holds to partial-preterist(postmill) views and doesn’t believe what is happening now is not what Matt 24 is saying
@@wolverine114 To be honest I do not know much about Pastor Wilson on the post millennium believes. I just find his voice of one crying in the wilderness refreshing among a morass of lukewarm, compromised organized religious church leaders. Very few are sounding the alarm denouncing and confronting evil these days.
@Caleb P as a postmil guy, I recently fell down the rabbit hole of the Nephilim project. I’d really encourage you to check out the Blurry Creatures podcast with Doug Riggs. They talk about the gene wars and a ton of things that leads you down the rabbit hole
Who was ‘taken’ in Noah’s day? Was it the good or the bad? This is not some parallel for the rapture.
Thank you Pastor Wilson for touching on the subject of the nephilim and for mentioning the Book of Enoch, it would be amazing if more preachers at the very least touched upon this subject because it is paramount that Christians understand the implications. As Jesus said in Matthew 24:37-39, “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.” (NKJV) It is no coincidence that Jesus said this in this way. Thank you Pastor, and hopefully, we will be blessed with more soon! 🙏🏼
I'm unsure how Nephilim and a folkloric Bible contradicting text from millennia after the Torah are, "paramount" and what "implications" they have.
I’m not embarrassed by scripture but only embarrassed by my lack of understanding at times
Yes! Yes! Yes! This is tremendous!
All praises to the Lord for this excellent video❣️🙌👍
I somehow missed that passage in Jude in relation to the nephilim.(!).. and never put 2 n 2 together the word "dwelling" in Jude and the same word used in 2Corinthians 5:2 referring to the body.. This is a great find! In Jude, I always interpreted "dwelling" as a place, not a thing. This is why I missed it. Thanks for this insight!
Nice to see the reformed catching up on this issue. Hopefully it spreads.
Huge fan here!
Execellent, is wonderful to find what seems to be a channel presenting the full counsel of the Word. Having said that, I would have to offer this challenge: so many folks who take the ‘God-means-what-He-says’ approach to the reading of Scripture (indeed, the correct approach), only take this approach as far as is really comfortable, typically drawing the line at cosmology. The Bible is clearly not a heliocentric book, yet one who is otherwise a Bible-matter-of-factualist won’t hesitate for a moment to impose a foreign cosmology on the Bible. One example of many: Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, not the earth to stop rotating. You say “Joshua didn’t know any better.” That’s fine, but you must then apply the same rationale to every other apparent instance of scientific ignorance in Scripture. In so pursuing a delicate tap dance of selective parsing soon the authority of Scripture unravels.
Amen.
Luther, and Calvin both affirmed that it was the sun that moved. The view of the early Christians, and the Jews of antiquity was that the world is flat, and covered by a firmament.
Even if I do not understand exactly the how and means of God and His creation, I boldly affirm the truth of it, as revealed in scripture. Warts and all, against all comers, Sola Scriptura.
I cannot prove my beliefs concerning mass media, the government, and any role they have played in a conspiracy to undermine the protestant reformation. But, the fruit of the Galileo, and Charles Darwin, is the weak half measured belief of the lukewarm churches today. I know how easy it is to create footage, or to photoshop. Therefore, the testimony of NASA, I do not accept.
I am not weak, as to turn from the Word, and I agree with the ancients, until Christ returns to show me otherwise Himself, that infact, the Earth, and the Cosmos are as the scripture describes.
This I believe, warts and all. The World is less than 7,000 years old, the lights above all orbit above, and we were created in the beginning by God in a literal Eden. All the words, be they about talking serpents, or talking donkeys, if the words are not poetry or parable, then they are truth.
It has taken me a very very long time to come to the position to which I hold, and hold dearly. I was not raised in a Christian home, watching vegie tales, and being "brainwashed" in children's Sunday school.
On the contrary, I was brainwashed as a child in the public school system, fed on lies about human evolutionism, and astronomy, and in the science classes, I was always an A+ student. However, that I may be viewed, (by fellow christens, or those outside of the Ecclesia), as ignorant and uninformed, I avow the Word, and the full truth of the scriptures, warts and all.
@@princekermit0 Zed- me too. Exactly as you described. Thank you for your comment.
"If I have told you earthly things and ye believe me not, how shall ye believe me if I tell you of heavenly things?"
- JESUS
This brings several questions to mind. Is Joshua causing this to happen. As in Moses was given the ability to cast his rod down and have it turn into a serpent. Or is Joshua asking for it to happen. With God the one actually doing it. It is possible that if Joshua is the one doing it. The nature of some of the abilities. Do not require the person to have proper technical understanding of the mechanics. Just to state what they want to happen from their perspective. example. Very few people know any of the programming languages that underpin our electronic devices. It is also possible that things don't work the way we think they work. That we ourselves are nearly as or just as ignorant about what is really happening as Joshua.
I greatly appreciate your Biblical defense of this view. Since I'm still unconvinced, could you help me with the following:
1) After the verse about the sons of God "taking wives" of the daughters of men, why does it say "the Lord said, 'My Spirit shall not strive with man forever'" (v3). If it was the fallen angel's fault and the text suggests that they _took_ them, not that men were offering their daughters, why would God's anger burn against man?
2) In verse 1 we read that the sons of God "saw" that the daughters of men are "beautiful," wouldn't that imply appreciation and sexual attraction of some sort? Angel's were all created at once, they do not procreate, even if they were to assume a human/giant's body, and want to copulate with humans, I think that this still won't justify this attraction. The motivation seems to be lust, rather than a grand plan to prevent the Messiah from coming...
3) If the flood intended to destroy the Nephelim (supposed hybrids between men and angels), which were Satan's plan to thwart the promised "seed of the woman," why are there Nephelim after the flood? What would have stopped Satan from continuing right where he left off after the flood?
4) Wouldn't such a view make man the victim rather than the culprit? Verse 5 describes the wickedness of man, not that of angels. Verse 6 describes God's commitment to destroying man, not angels.
5) Since in Gen.1 we see how God creates everything according to its kind, with a procreative limit within its own kind, how can hybrids procreate with humans? Wouldn't that be in a way affirming macro-evolution and one kind "evolving" into another? Furthermore, the offspring of such would not carry Adam's sin.
I am genuinely interested in biblical answers to those questions. Thank you.
i would add a couple more questions to yours too.
1. How can an angel have the creative power to make distinct dna and successfully procreate?
2. In the NT, it refers to believers as sons of God. this is why i hold the sethite view.
3. so out of all angels who rebelled, only some made giants and were cast into tartarus (when did this happen?), the rest were allowed to remain on earth and scourge humanity?
I have no association with Doug Wilson, but I'll give it a shot.
1) & 4) seem to revolve around the same issue, which is that humanity must have been involved in the sin as well, whether they were involved in initiating it (the Tower of Babel may be a second attempt at that) or whether the corruption spread into humanity. Jennifer Mugrage's novel "The Long Guest" does an excellent job of depicting that sort of corruption - its appeal and how it can spread. As to why it refers to men rather than angels, that would be because it is written for men. We learn from Peter and Jude that He did in fact punish the angels involved as well.
2) seems to be a speculative objection. That is, how are we to know what sort of temptations angelic beings might face? And, of course, the reference in Jude indicates that angels did in fact pursue sexual sin (they "went after strange flesh" "in the same way [as Sodom and Gomorrah]"), so I don't see how we could rule out the idea that they can experience lust or sexual temptation.
3) I would assume that the term Nephilim used by the spies in Numbers 13 simply means that they saw giants. The term may have come to be used for giants in general, or the spies may have been intending to make a reference to the events of Genesis 6 in order to heighten the sense of danger. The spies, after all, may not be entirely reliable in their accounts. As to what would have stopped Satan from trying the same thing again, well apparently God put a stop to it, as indicated in 2 Peter 2 and Jude.
5a) The Bible says that God made each according to its kind, but I don't see where it says that it is physically impossible for different kinds to interbreed. It would not imply any affirmation of macro evolution because it involves intent and intelligent activity, just as a breeding program or genetic engineering doesn't demonstrate evolution but rather the ability of creatures to manipulate the creation.
5b) Regarding the transmission of Adam's sin, I don't see how that would be negated, given that all such hybrids would still have Adam as an ancestor and as their federal head.
@@rayortiz6189
1. When angels appear in physical form in the Old Testament they appear to have fully functioning bodies. They wear clothes, struggle with people, and eat food. If they have muscles, bones, skin, a nervous system, hair, and digestive organs, is there some reason to think that they didn't have reproductive organs?
2. And yet, it is not consistently (or even typically) used that way in the Old Testament, so apparently the phrase can carry different meanings.
3. Apparently, but we're only told that it happened, not when or how many. I don't see how that would weaken the position.
@@benjaminledford6111 Thanks for the detailed reply. I accept 1-5a as possible explanations to those question. If have to be honest, the biggest problem with my current view is Jude. If Jude was not there, I don't think I would even be considering another possibility (just from Genesis or 2 Peter).
With regards to 5b, here's the thing. Christ is the first Man (Adam) to be born without the "desire of man" and is therefore called the "2nd Man" and "last Adam" (Rom.5 & 1Cor.15). Even though he was born through the agency of a sinful human mother, he did not receive Adam's original sin because He wasn't under his headship, which alludes to the fact that original sin (in some mysterious way) is passed down by the man. A potential army of hybrid men/angels not having Adam's sin isn't the problem. After all, they would carry the sinful nature of their demonic "fathers," but would have no possibility of redemption. They would essentially be different races though. Which means that Christ cannot rightly be said to be the "second Man" because there would have been many "second men" before Him, if you see what I mean...? Unless the "second" is not to be taken literally.
@@georgerassovsky3733 Christ being the second Man or second Adam is reference to His status as representative though. Adam as our forefather and representative put us all under the sin curse, Christ took on the mantle of representative and because of His perfection and righteousness became sin for us.
Your #2 question, Here's a really strange passage for you to consider. In I Corinthians 11:2-16, what does it mean in verse 10 that women ought to be under authority because of the angels?
#3 After the flood the most drastic change was life expectancy. Pre-flood mankind lived for centuries and was nearly completely corrupted by the Nephilim, but after the flood people are barely making it past 100 years. This has to be deliberate on God's part,
As for your #4 question, Mankind is both the victim and culprit for being tempted by Satan and believing him in the first place. Divine beings in rebellion against God are already committed to destruction.
These are just a few of my thoughts that differ from what other people have said. I believe the Nephilim are human/divine being hybrids, and while the evidence convinces me it does have to be pieced together with extra-biblical sources. The reason I accept the book of Enoch in this matter is because Jude and Peter both reference it. Whether it's true or not, ultimately it doesn't change our responsibilities towards God and sharing the Gospel with the lost. Someday when we get to Heaven we'll find out for certain one way or the other.
He is using the names and reference from the book of Enoch. This is really good, and I would love to hear what he has to say about the book, because it is quoted in the NT.
Amen. Dr. Michael Heiser does good work on this topic too.
Precipitated the flood
Check out The Lord of Spirits podcast on Ancient Faith Radio. They’ve been going deep into this sort of thing.
I was going to say the same thing. Really good stuff!
I second Pastor Mike's suggestion!
After hearing this, I don't know why I ever held to the sons of Seth & the daughters of Cain explanation. I have also wondered how bad must it have been for God to the destroy the earth, when the rampant sin of today, (in defiance of, not ignorance of God's laws) hasn't brought Jesus back to end things? The Nephalim being human/angel hybrids would explain a lot. Thanks Doug.
Thanks for doing this Doug.
Helpful video from Doug. There is also a helpful paper, on this subject, on Creation Ministries International's website.
What sense does it make for us believers, to believe in the supernatural creation account, and the supernatural resurrection, but almost none of the supernatural events in between?
Excellent to see a teacher with a correct view of Gen 6 and Jude (and even to make mention of 1 Enoch!) Great work. I do have one disagreement: in 1 Peter 3 when Jesus goes to Hades to 'make proclamation to those spirits in prison', I believe (and the Orthodox Church teaches) this is in two parts - a pronouncement of victory to the nephilim and the fallen angels, and a pronouncement of mercy and salvation to those people who died before Christ but would have chosen Him and His way.
Recall that this place is divided in two - Torment and Paradise, or Tartarus and Elysium, etc. To which would our Lord's message have been salvation, and to which would our Lord's message have been damnation? The very same proclamation can be received differently by different souls - or spirits.
1 Enoch, it's not canon but it ties all these threads together. Not necessarily Biblical truth, but excellent context, and those who wrote the New Testament were almost certainly familiar with it (if not directly quoting it in Jude's case).
1st enoch is cannon
It was noted, “Nephilim where the gigantic offspring…giants” but what's the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word "giants" in English Bibles?
Oh man. I like this guy.
Really enjoy these. I applaud your calling out the "sons of Seth" take for the dodge that it is. However, one question I need help with. How are/were the Nephilim the off-spring of the union depicted in Gen. 6:1 if, per Gen. 6:4, they were already there? (Genesis 6:4 (ESV) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward (Num. 13:33), when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.) Furthermore, the text says, "These (the Nephilim, evidently) were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown." Thanks for your (or anyone else's) help here.
When looking into the definition of the word translated as old. Words like everlasting, perpetual, and evermore are often used as translations for the same word. 2 possible reasons for this.
1) Physical. The Nephilim may have had bodies that did not age into old age. i have heard it said the Nephilim had to have their heads cut off to be truly killed. i believe the Nephilim are the group of people that God told the Jews to wipe out every single one.
2) Spiritual. As i understand it. The Nephilim are considered the main entities responsible for possession. When they die, either their spirit does not go to "hell" as a normal humans do. Or they are able to leave hell and dwell on earth in spirit form. i tend to think about Jesus sending the legion of spirits into pigs, upon their request. It seems possible, that upon being cast out. They would have gone to hell unless directed otherwise.
Nephilim weren't already there, the contextual flow of the narrative is about the sons of God and daughters of men: their attraction, marriages, mating, and offspring so there's no break from that to artificially insert a passing reference to some guys who happened to be around and about whom nothing more is said. Rather, we're being told that Nephilim were around as a result of when the sons came into the daughters, etc.
"Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward" of when?
Num. 13:33 is just an "evil report" by utterly unreliable guys whom God rebuked: they just made up a tall-tale.
Any concept of post-flood Nephilim implies that God failed: He meant to be rid of the via the flood but couldn't get the job done, He must have missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc., and now you'd have to invent an un-biblical tall-tale about how they made it past the flood.
@@KenAmmi-Shalom Your interpretation seems to focus around your desire to avoid God failing. There is more than one way to view this. The Sons of God defied God. God wipes out their work. Then after having been warned. After their work is destroyed. They start up again. Just because Genesis 6 makes you uncomfortable. Does not justify ignoring what it is saying. You need to seek understanding rather than dodge what is being said. After Numbers 13:33 We see God helps the Jewish people fight the giants. We see in Exodus 23:28 Hornets are sent forth to drive them out. This would not need to be done on large scale if the foe was not problematic. We see in Deuteronomy 3:11 the kings bed was over 13 feet long and made of iron. 400 years after Moses. David fights Goliath who is a giant. Thought to be between 7-9 feet tall. Goliaths equipment is very heavy he is able to fight effectively with massively heavy equipment. Saul was very tall for a Jew, and he was afraid of goliath.
When Moses goes before pharoh. God is using that event to also bring judgement on the Sons of God in the spiritual realm. Those Sons, are locked up deep in the pit as far below the normal first hell, as the first hell is from the living.
Know that uncomfortable parts in the bible. Are not mistakes. They are potential rewards to those who seek.
May I ask if fallen Angels bred with human women before the flood, why is there no warning against it post flood and no continuation of the practice?
The answer, I'd suggest, is in the text itself - this occurred 'in those days' (pre) and 'also after that' (post), hence the events leading to Genesis 11 and humanity seeking to create a 'babeli' under Nimrod, one of the Nephilim.
@@howardbabcomso then the flood was a failure. Was the flood not brought down to irradiate the world of the sin that got out of control? And if it was to happen again… seems like the flood was pointless.
@@wolverine114 Not at all. The flood is meant to convey the same message to us as Jesus teaches in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, or in what Paul states in Romans 1 - you can put the magnitude of the splendours of creation before some men, or even a resurrection, and they'll just wallow in ignorance, but you can put it before others, and they'll turn in worship.
Goliath was a giant - post flood times
So there was a second incursion after the flood? There were Nephilim then. God would have known if the daughters married to Noah’s sons were not pure.
Is microbial generation of the human insulin molecule nephalim?
Of course not, lest God failed and missed a genetic loophole when He sought to be rid of them via the flood.
What has been is what will be and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun. Is there a thing of which it is said, ‘See this is new? It has been already in ages before us, but there is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be remembrance of things yet to happen among those who come after.”
🎭🪔Amen...Yes, everything you said, I believe🪔...
Hey Doug, or anyone else who might know, is there any way to get a transcript of these messages?
To the right of the channel's title, to the right of subscribe, to the right of thumbs up or down, to the right of share, you should see three dots which is a drop down menu that includes opening a transcript. It's AI created so may contain errors and isn't formatted but it's there. You can then left click just to the left of the first word and drag all the way to the end, or pick certain statements. That will include the timestamps, which you can do away with by clicking on the three dots to the right of the word transcript that will appear when it opens.
Brilliant 🎉
I love your content!
To objectors I say, “You tell me exactly what angels are, and I’ll tell you what they can and can’t do.”
For those wishing to learn more on the subjects I highly recommend The Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser and Jonathan Pageau's video on Universal History.
I think Luther's take makes the most sense. These weren't supernatural but overly proud and boastful people who had an inflated sense of self. I would refer you to his Commentary on Genesis the Beginning thu the Flood.
Does anyone have any speculations about how there were Nephilim here after the flood?
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that..." Genesis 6:4 KJV
It happened again after the flood.
See Daniel 2:43 and think of donkeys and horses procreating mules. And think of how Mules cannot have further offspring.
See also "Liger"
In Numbers 13:33, ten of the spies were attempting to discourage the people from entering the promised land. They resorted to spreading exaggerated and false reports about the land, including the claim that the sons of Anak descended from the nephilim. To put it in legal terms, in a court, the spies who made this claim would be considered "unreliable witnesses" and their testimony would not be taken seriously. So if you discount Numbers 13:33, there's no reason to think that any nephilim survived the flood or that it happened again after the flood.
Giants died during the flood but their spirits still influenced men who went away from God. It's probably occultic in nature that spawned new giants, though they werent as powerful or high in stature.
Why would angels have reproductive equipment?
I'll answer you that when you answer why God created a forbidden tree.
Why wouldn't they?
I thought we fundamentalist southern Baptists were the only ones that actually believe the bible says and means what the bible says and means. All jokes aside, it really is nice to hear someone from another more "distinguished" denomination confirm what we have been saying for generations in my family at least. Simply. The sons of God came to the earth and married women as they chose. There were giants in those days. both before and after. Thus the command of God to Joshua to wipe out entirely certain Canaanite tribes. they were corrupted flesh. I'm new to checking out Dougs stuff, bought his book Mere Christendom. Really good book. Not a post mill guy at all, but i do fundemntally agree that we Christians need to get up, get active and take back our culture & institutions and disciple the nations.
“Why would the entire ancient world concur with the reading that this was a celestial earthly connection, from Josephus to Beowolf to the book of Enoch.. from responsible historical accounts to oddball books?”
Question: how come there were still Nephilm giants on the earth after the flood? And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. Numbers 13:33
Doug Riggs talks about this on his guest appearance on the Blurry Creatures podcast
In Numbers 13:32-33, ten of the spies were attempting to discourage the people from entering the promised land. They resorted to spreading exaggerated and false reports about the land, including the claim that the sons of Anak descended from the nephilim. To put it in legal terms, in a court, the spies who made this claim would be considered "unreliable witnesses" and their testimony would not be taken seriously.
So when will we see durbin and wilson go there?? Matter of time?? 🙂
Somebody brought the tank to the gun show!
Bam!
Keep it coming pastor!
Great word!
Would love to see Jeff durbin, and James White respond to this because it all goes to psalm 82,duetoronomy 32 worldview.
Very good. The LORD is always true!
If the clouds are full of rain, They empty themselves upon the earth; And if a tree falls to the south or the north, In the place where the tree falls, there it shall lie.
Ecclesiastes 11:3
I have asserted in other forums that the Neanderthal might have been the Nephilim. Any thoughts?
Moscow just keeps calling my name. But the winters…God bless you, Doug!
Can you teach on biblical cosmology? I can’t get behind a slinging earth spinning in 5 directions at 5 speeds into a ever expanding universe. Too much scripture points to a earth that is foundational and complete. I don’t like the term flat earth bc it’s a buzz word but can’t get behind a spinning ball/pear/ oblong ever-changing description of the earth.
Thanks.
Let me start out by saying that I like and respect Doug but......
I am not sure that his interpretation of Gen 6 is correct?? Is it possible to have a hybrid species of human/angelic beings?? How about human/ape beings?? (and would these beings have human or animal souls or some sort of soul-mixture, same applies to the Nephilim) Is it possible for Christ's human nature to be ubiquitous and yet for him to remain truly human?? (ala Roman Catholicism or Lutheranism view of the " Eucharist") was Christ truly human or was he some sort of mixed divine-human being, where his human nature was deified, a 3rd category of being?? Are human-angelic beings some sort of a 3rd kind of being or species?? I am reformed (Baptist version) and I am not anti-supernatural but I have argued with many RC's and Lutherans about the Lord's Supper, that Christ's human body cannot be ubiquitous and yet remain truly human.....human nature is not ubiquitous! I am not saying that I fully/truly understand Gen 6 but I have concerns when mixing different "kinds" of "beings or species" I am sure that creatures reproduce after their own kinds.....it sez that somewhere in scripture
Answer to the first question, yes. The opposition to this doesn't come from the biblical worldview but usually from a platonic/gnostic one. The answer to the Eucharist question is that the two issues are unrelated. The answer to the human and ape question is that genetic manipulation/engineering could definitely pull it off - but more importantly, the nephilim status doesn't seem to be genetic, like being "biracial" let's say.
@Caleb P I believe that angels can APPEAR as humans but are not human! They possess a different DNA and genetic code (not that angels have DNA etc) Angels are not physical beings like us human beings, they do not reproduce, nor are they capable of reproduction.....
4:20 The issue here is that Nephilim doesn't mean giant nor does the Bible ever make the claim that Nephilim=Giant. Nephilim can mean fallen ones, or it can mean "ones who fall" thus possibly implying people who raid of people (to fall upon, which is a phrased used repeatedly in the bible). The assumption that it means giants only arose when Greek and Roman culture started to become obsessed with Giant based literature, so we see lots of Giant based literature spring up (Book of Enoch) making bold claims that Nephilim were 4000+ feet tall, fed on humans, devoured the landscape, and that the reason for the flood was to wipe out the Nephilim. It's almost its own genre during that time period.
Numbers, also calls the people in the land of Canaan Nephilim, which means that Nephilim is just a category for taller people, not some sort of demigod/hellspawn as described in Book of Enoch and other giant based literature (which are also non-canonical, but great for knowing pop-culture of that time period).
Ezekiel mentions Nephilim of sorts and in context it seems that they were both still alive and quite human at the time of Ezekiel. This, in my opinion, shows that the concept of Nephilim, at least in Ezekiel's time, doesn't appear to view them as giants, but as raiders who "fall upon" other people. This means that literally ANY group of people that raids or plunders could be a Nephilim of sorts. That being said, this is also a weak argument as then why isn't the term Nephilim used more frequently throughout the Bible?
In short, I'm not against the concept of Nephilim meaning tall; the issue is that Nephilim appear repeatedly throughout scripture without having any correlation to human/angel hybrids. You can't have Nephilim without angels, so the fact that Nephilim can show up WITHOUT angels means that angels aren't the determining factor.
May someone please post for the reference on the fortune telling girl possessed by a python spirit? (I suppose it’s in acts but I’m trying to find it faster)
Acts 16:16
"The ultimate choice is between Christ or chaos." Tragically we are seeing chaos enablement in many of the Western societies that guarantees future conflict.
Took you long enough. 😅
Welcome to the party. May this be another step on your journey towards the Orthodox Church.
We are offering our women and babies to demonic angels for thousands of years - up until now.
When you brought up genetic engineering it totally clicked for me. There is nothing new under the sun.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Hebrews 1:5 KJV
The Reformed Presbyterian Church of which I am a member, teaches that the sons of God mixing with the daughters of men, has to do with the chosen of God marrying children of Cain.
But to my mind, the rest of the surrounding passages along with a plain interpretation of history, it seems more practical to see the sons of God as fallen spiritual beings.
My opinion, for whatever it’s worth.
... so does Doug think that there are still descendents of Nephilim today?
I would like a full sermon on this please
Doug I would like for you to explain why this topic is not more important in the lineage of Jesus. In Genesis 5 it’s clearly telling the lineage of Noah even after the passage it states that “These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.”
Genesis 6:9 ESV
My question how could Jesus be a descendant from Noah’s line if Noah was a descendant from fallen angels?
The term generations can also mean geneology. Likely meaning this was to show Noah was not corrupted by the angelic taint.
Yes yes yes yes!! I have held this view a long time and some in the church who are far more prominent than me also do too.
But to hear it from Doug's wit and wisdom is just too tasty to take it. Like having the best chocolate cake finally arrive at your house for your annual day of birth.
Love the part especially early where he pointed out that it was not the clubbing night life that got us a global flood, but genetic perversity to a new level that did it. That IS what the text says.
While I agree with the Elder that we need to believe all of the Bible I have disagree with his arguments for sons of God being fallen angels
Same here. I get confused as to how these angels are able to be married and have relations with women, but in Jude it also says they were kept in “eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment…” so were they thrown down to hell, or were they thrown to earth. Revelation says earth, Isaiah says earth, Jude says “eternal bonds”. I think there’s more to it than what Wilson is saying here. I’m not sure what your stance is on who the “sons of god” are though?
@@wolverine114 while I feel he make a good argument and sons of God reference is the most difficult passage to dispute I believe the verse is speaking of the joining of the godly line to the ungodly line. The Bible gives the line of Cain and Seth but mentions no other offsprings although we know there were many. It seems to be giants after the flood which he doesn’t mention but the term can also mean mighty warrior. Another reason I believe that is in the NT demons posses people but are not stated to have physical bodies. Also if women was made for men how can they procreate with angels?
Now for his argument. The passage in Jude seems to be speaking of fallen Angel reserved for judgement and never mentions them under the heart. Sodom the author compares sodom to the false teachers. In 1 Peter that verse state he showed himself to the spirits not Angel while he did not deal the passage about Jesus going to the father. The historian he mentioned could simply be going off the narrative of either 2nd temple or later interpretation. We know that books like Enoch was never considered scripture. While I could be wrong I feel the brother should rethink some of his arguments
@@joshuadaniels4034 First and foremost, I want to say the issue of the Nephilim being offspring of Cain or offspring of divine beings doesn't impact what Christians are supposed to be doing in sharing the Gospel and following after Christ. It's just something that I find incredibly fascinating to discuss. That being said I firmly believe that these were divine beings that intermingled with human women. One of the evidences giving veracity to the idea of a global flood is that so many different cultures from all over the world have some version of the flood story. Likewise, cultures from all around the world have ancient stories of 'demi-gods' or half-demons. I think this is evidence for the Nephilim being the spawn of unholy unions between angels and humans. When God promises that the seed of the woman will crush the head of the serpent, how could the Devil attempt to circumvent this? The absolute corruption of the genepool would seem logical, so he attempted to lead mankind physically and spiritually into such a complete state of rebellion against God that no seed of woman could arise.
In the book of Jude, what makes the angels being kept in chains of darkness special? What could they have possibly done to be imprisoned by God, when Satan is still free to roam about? To me the only explanation that seems satisfactory is that aspects of the Book of Enoch are true, and the angels imprisoned awaiting judgment are the ones who took on physical bodies and were destroyed by the flood along with their offspring.
Post-flood, the divine beings in rebellion once again attempt to pollute mankind's genepool to breed them out, but there's one major change. Humans no longer have lifespans of nearly 1,000 years. This part is purely speculation, but it would seem the fallen angels could no longer gain the same type of physical influence only allowing for a few small clans to arise. These post-flood clans are first mentioned in Genesis 14 and the last of them in the Biblical record are the descendants of Anak, the Anakim, which fall to David in 1 Samuel 17.
As for the book of Enoch itself, it's obviously not Scripture, but a book about history doesn't have to be part of Scriptural canon to be true. Considering that both Jude and Peter quote from it indicates to me that it should be believed in respect to this aspect of the spiritual realm.
Pastor Wilson: Thank you for this. I do have a sincere question. It seems that God made all living creatures "AFTER THEIR KIND". We recognize dogs and cats can't mix. But angels and mankind, who are different KINDS can? And I'm trying to think this through theologically...if SIN is passed down through our FEDERAL HEAD ...ADAM... then these NEPHILIM would not have original sin as they didn't come from our FEDERAL HEAD? ("As in ADAM ALL DIE") Also, the definition of a VIRGIN is a woman who has never known a MAN! Any way we slice it...these women were impregnated by a SPIRIT BEING...so technically these also would be "VIGIN BIRTHS". I'm wondering if this view doesn't attack the VIRGIN BIRTH of CHRIST? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you sir!
👍😎♥️👍♥️😎♥️🔥🔥🔥🔥
I truly think my faith comes from the grace of God cuz I never believed evolution and even in school I was angry in the religion class when my colleagues said "there is no God" - thanks to their atheist parents 😂 it was not my own cleverness oh no - it was designed in me by the creator. The creation and the Bible are pointing to God - all we have to do is being faithful and thankful. And parents tell your children to pray.
This is interesting but how would a GIANT spirit impregnate a tiny body? Nobody talks about the physicality of it. More so, how would a woman's womb and entire body for that matter support the gestation and growth of a giant nephilim?
So an angel being one kind and a human being another kind can procreate? So like a cat and a dog being two different kinds can procreate? And the giants after the flood?
Right, Genesis 6 was calling out believers "sons of God" for joining with unbelievers "daughters of men". A theme we see multiple times throughout the bible.
@@Eternal-Security I’ve heard it all. Even that they possessed man to procreate with women. So how would a possessed man produce angel sperm and how would angel sperm pregnate a woman of a different kind?
@@jasont5300 I mean, the Holy Spirit got Mary pregnant. It can happen?
@@Zaloomination that’s God who is the creator. Not even remotely the same thing.
Are you assuming some sort of grasp of celestial biology? Because you cannot explain it biologically, you are eliminating it biblically. Its completely wacky to our 21st century "scientific" minds. Agree there. But like Doug said, this kind of story is prevalent in the ancient world. And it is also how many before us interpreted it. I'm gonna go with what the text says, regardless of questions I have.
Excellent!
Pastor Wilson, Genesis 6:9: “This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.” seems to indicate that in addition to Noah being a righteous man he was “perfect”, or undefiled in his generations. Am I reading something into this when I see it as saying that none of Noah’s hereditary relatives in his genealogy had any of the nephilim’s perverted genetics in their bloodlines? That this was a factor in Noah, and his arkmates being chosen by God to restart the human race undefiled by the nephilim taint and as such Noah and his offspring were pure human genetic stock from which to repopulate the post flood world?
It’s amazing to me how many Christian pastors, leaders and church members can be embarrassed by their fellow Christian’s talk about Genesis 6, nephilim, literal 6 day creation, and a worldwide flood, but seem to be comfortable embracing the Marxist ideology of CRT, social justice, even abortion, homosexuality, and transgenderism. There appears to be something disjointed in their theology, or lack there of.
It is possible there may have been others that were not tainted at this time. Likely they did not walk with God. Probably did not have long before their genetics were corrupted as well. i completely agree with the how many things a professed Christian will claim to believe in and yet ignore or run away from topics in the bible that make them uncomfortable. While sanctifying all sorts of unbiblical nonsense.
10:55 AMEN!
Yeah, I brought this view to a reformed study through Genesis. I was the only one not holding to the Sethite view. Modern reformed Christians have a truncated view of the supernatural.
Genesis 6 says the reason for the flood was man...not the 'nephilim'.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Why was man judged for the wickedness of angels, if indeed this was the case ?
Then where the heck are the nephlim and why would God leave so much evidence for evolution
I’ve always detested the Seth sons marriage to Cains daughter’s theory. It was like listening to a Christian explain the day age theory while Allegorizing the Adam and Eve narrative.
What about like begetting like, or whatever. You know, different species can’t breed.
Reason for the flood was sin if you follow the logic of this man then you're basically saying it was the Angels fault not the sin
No, God is holding them both accountable. As the flood was inflicted upon man.
You see the same story in the Tower of Babel. God rendered the nations the the sons of God, but also confused the language of man.