VR Support Finally Arrives On GNOME Wayland
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
- The DRM leasing protocol, the requirement for VR under Wayland has been long implemented across the Linux desktop except for one, it's one thing if nobody wants to work on it and it gets delayed, but when a solution is agreed upon and then 2 years later you go back on that then there's a problem
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Наука
GNOME is a giant contradiction for me. The most professional, prettiest, workable (for me) DE; and yet the architecture zeal that literally makes using it for more than basic tasks a headache
KDE plasma
They're 100% a copy of apple, and just like apple, they think being assholes and only thinking about themselves is the way to go.
I know some people who say that Gnome is "The most professional, prettiest, workable (...) DE" because of their architecture etc. zeal.
A professional DE for kindergarten
@@aprile1710KDE could do with a lot of work put into a default theme and config. Gnome may be borderline unusable, inflexible, and trying harder than Windows 8 to be a smartphone launcher but without the charm but out of the box it is at least polished looking even if ugly.
"dbus nightmare fuel" is the motto of modern linux.
Brodie: "I won't do a long video again for a long time"
Also Brodie: "I uploaded a 20 min video and you will love it"
Yeah, well things happen lol
3 days in a row too (if you squint at least)
but hey, I'm down for my daily wayland shilling
"support can be added in a single day"
"ok send me a branch tomorrow"
IDK if Brodie heard, but GNOME is also implementing accent colors, using the protocol everyone agreed to without them that they were pissy about before, so QT apps will follow accent colors on GNOME and GTK apps will follow them on other desktops as well. The settings menu for them looks very similar to the one on COSMIC and Ubuntu.
Kinda interesting that two of the things GNOME was being so obstinant about not implementing have now been implemented in such a short timespan. I guess we'll know if they've really changed if they implement SSD.
Interestingly, they're also now trying to merge the triple buffering MR
Why can't GNOME just be civil and support everything all the other desktops support without any issues.
@@mrmelon54Most other desktops are still on xorg.
The linux ecosystem would be a much better place if everyone just agreed to ban Sebastian wick from all discussion.
25 Minutes video, has Wayland on the title... and GNOME!!! I NEED TO WATCH THIS
10 years later they might say the color management work should have been a portal /s
10 years later we might see proper window decorations
maybe lol
@@charautreal make that 20
Speaking of which, where is the Color Transform Matrix support in Gnome?
@@charautreal they kinda succeeded at forcing everyone to ship their own decorations, so I don't think there's a need for that anymore
@@n1ghtglare with the ecosystem being quite small yeah, they did
Wait for linux to get even a little more traction and they're gone
VR is the final obstacle keeping me dual booting windows so I'm ecstatic to see this happen, even if I have no plans to use GNOME ever again. It means it's one less instance of "Linux jank that needs to be explained in an asterisk somewhere to newcomers" and that is good for the overall health of linux whether one uses GNOME or not, major thanks and props to everyone who made this happen.
I think before this lands in any Distro I use, Cosmic will be out… which got DRM lease 2 years ago already, despite not even being in alpha :D
😂 Seriously, I wish Cosmic the best.
How long did it take you to realize DRM in DRM leasing does not mean Digital Right Management Me:(Until Today)
Pretty sure he's mentioned that DRM in this case means something else literally in every video the term came up 😂
You're not entirely alone, even though I know it's not, my brain is still like "what's digital rights management doing on Linux! >:-(" every time I hear "DRM"
The good version of DRM in this video, not the Hollywood/Record industry BS
Hopefully COSMIC will save us all from Gnome special snow flake syndrome.
Late july is the current ETA
I dunno about other KDE bros, but I've been eating so good since moved to KDE that when I see posts like this I just think "what, this is something that works just fine in KDE, I thought others would have it easy too" and in some way, others do fine.. unless they're named GNOME.
The same thing could be said both ways tbh. On GNOME Wayland you can do remote desktop server with RDP out of the box from the settings app and it works flawlessly... On KDE Wayland it's a pain in the ass and it barely works, at least in my recent experience (I know they're working on it though).
I have a secondary computer that I only access through remote desktop and KDE was a no go for me, even 3rd party services like NoMachine gave me issues there :(
I used to distro hop every month or so when I first started using Linux. First with unity in Ubuntu then to Zorin, Fedora, Ubuntu Mate, etc. and found that the only desktop I kept circling back to was KDE. First with KDE Neon and then Arch.
My current install is over a year old now and I honestly can’t see myself changing DE again unless KDE does something completely goofy like make basic customisation require 3rd party plugins 💀
@@mttklvery bad timing cuz Plasma 6.1 added exactly that
The price we pay for looking pretty
@@n1ghtglare I mean, their point exactly. It was just added.
Aside from weird comments by devs and ideological differences (which happen often), I wonder how much stalling is because of lack of funds. Gnome has really added more protocols/features since the tech fund money came in.
If it was a lack of funds, maybe they shouldn't have wasted everybodys (including their own) time, by opening a discussion about something that, as it seems, just about everybody else had agreed upon a long time ago. Sometimes I feel as if Gnome devs just do something for the sake of being different. But overall I don't really care for their true intentions, tbh. They're simply not in a position to dictate what everybody else should do.
as a VR enthousiast, I'm really pleased by that, it was probably one of the missing things that would allow Valve to do their own VR standalone headset, based on some of the tech they made for the SteamDeck & the Index.
why is that wick guy trying to constantly sabotage gnome/wayland
Because he has strong opinions and doesn’t understand when others don’t share them. I wouldn’t quite call it sabotage, but y’know
@@jthoward I could understand some strong disagreements being healthy for coming up with better solutions, but just following the conversation in this video gave me the same impression that Wick was sabotaging the project, whether it was intentional or not.
Even if you are 100% against the decisions of the rest of the group you either learn to play ball to get things done or move aside and wash your hands off the decision making. Wasting years of development time just to go along with the original decision is in fact very harmful to any project. He was being incredibly stubborn yet even he had to concede at the end, which made it even more silly.
The one redeeming quality was that Wick did see things through by actually working on fixing the final patch, but it still doesn't change how unproductive the entire ordeal ended up being.
@@Frozen_Death_Knight tbf he does some great work, namely on hdr and color. It’s just he doesn’t seem to like compromising. That or just doesn’t communicate well digitally
@@jthoward Contributing and being an expert on the subject does not justify other things. The key point here, as has always happened in GNOME, is not technically, but is the perspective of feeling the center of the world or just feeling part of it.
@@lestcape1 oh don’t get me wrong, that behavior pisses me off too and I went back and forth with him a couple of time on the top level icon MR (and maybe on the zones proposal as well but idr). But that doesn’t mean the guy is out to destroy KDE and wlroots or to worsen Linux as a whole
There were funny translation errors that didn't get fixed after many reports on that steam doc, thankfully now it will be scrapped all together hehehe
I expected Georges Stavracas coming out of nowhere with the full implementation MR.
That could have happened, if someone sponsored me with the hardware :P
I watch the video just because of you Brodie :)
I am impressed how you improved in these few years.
Ah yes, GNOME being GNOME. They always need to do everything in different way. At this point I think we can blame GNOME for slowing Linux desktop adoption rate. I wonder why GNOME is default on so many distros.
Because it is less overwhelming. Less settings are easier to deal with and it has sane defaults. It mostly works fine for work.
gnome has a stable release cycle, it is well mantained and supported (in the sense that it will be updated for the forseable future) and it has a better license than KDE in the early days so it won the trust of most distros
The blame game is childish. As if plasma or any other de is without faults.
@@donkey7921 Faults yes? Being giant pains in the butts and gas lighting users...no.
@@donkey7921 Every DE or window manager has its flaws. But GNOME's problem is that they don't like following standards and specifications everyone agreed upon and it's becoming PITA for applications developers and users.
If it was some niche DE, then fine - do your own thing, nobody would be going to use it because it would be incompatible with many apps, but their position in DE market share means they can and they do things just because they feel like it, and others have to keep up with their bs.
reverse enshittification :O
deenshittification or as I've taken to calling goodification
I know what VR is, but I have no idea what Gnome is and I have no idea why I just watched a 26 min video about Gnome.
You are living in a better world.
GNOME is a desktop environment. KDE Plasma is another desktop environment.
Linux
Gnome is a foot, KDE is a dragon. You're welcome
Stuff like this is why I'm excited for Cosmic. I use Gnome, it's my favorite DE, but it's really annoying when they decide to ignore what literally every other DE is doing and make Linux desktop as a whole progress slower. Cosmic seems like it has what I like about Gnome, but without all the drama they cause
6 years ago i was seriously considering using experimental desktops to get VR sipport, and not even for games. That Gnome has held us up so long is embarrassing and irritating and they should be reminded about this every time the refuse to support something everyone uses.
great video, thanks!
This is why fedora should just go all in with kde. gnome shouldn't be the default de for an distro that tries to be bleeding edge
I understand what the idea of GNOME was trying to be; the Apple like experience on Linux where everything is "polished" but restricted. Unfortunately, given some of the core GNOME developers' treatment of other projects, let's just say that I have more hope in COSMIC than modern GNOME at fulfilling that role.
Though KDE Plasma is awesome. I use it as my main DE. You can literally make it look like Windows, macOS, or even MATE if you wanted. That's some serious level of customization!
You do realize lil bro you change to kde right?... It's Linux you're not tied in to anything...
@@kolz4ever1980 Do you realize how much people who believe fedora is only accessable to gnome and since the only way to go kde is by using the terminal or by finding the spin on the bottom of the page. Most people stick with the default option
@@JoshuaT902 guess that's their fault for being Linux noobs huh? And yeah using the kde spin of fedora is another option.
@kolz4ever1980 this is the attitude that keeps linux 2-3 percent markets share. There are a lot of people only think fedora and ubuntu is only gnome
MONADO MENTIONED
I'd love a video about the state of open source vr on Linux (especially since it's so much more stable than steamvr on Linux)
I actually have a dev involved in VR development coming on the podcast soon
@@BrodieRobertson awesome! I just landed support for monado's xdev extension in Opencomposite the other day, so trackers now work out of the box :3
Ah another "Gnome bad" video...splendid.
I don't use GNOME and won't ever unless I really really have to, but seeing GNOME support things matters because it has a significant impact on the entire Linux ecosystem due to the support impacts it has. It's good to see GNOME not be weird for at least one day and on one important thing.
Yeah, I really like using Gnome, so it's nice to see it getting better
Gnome the only De that is behind on tech on propose because Daddy Apple is a great example how to progress tech wise
By locking out the hell the user experience, announce it as “the next big thing since sliced bread” and charge ridiculous amounts of money for it?
Why is it that whenever GNOME comes up, they HAVE to be so different that they interfere with protocol discussions. smh. Why are you like this GNOME???
In this case, Gnome approved the protocol without fuss. Then when people tried to implement the protocol they had already approved, they tried to have a do-over.
@@CptJistuce Still doesn't explain, why. I assume that they had more than enough time to talk it over. Reopening the discussion again at that point sounds rather silly to me, if everything Brody said is correct.
@@stephanhuebner4931 Indeed. I was pointing out how this is DUMBER than the usual Gnome shenanigans.
@@CptJistuce I see.
Man, I can't take Sebastian Wick anymore
tried a few times to use vr desktop but never get used to them, maybe due to the weight on my head, but I love the idea. If someday we have something like a normal glasses that are able to just show the screen I'll be able to use them more.
A lot of gnome's issues could be solved by now if they were more accepting to compromise while a replacement was eventually worked on.
Babe wake up, Brodie uploaded a new video
That last video before bed 😂
Can't relate to that statement
^^ I'm so happy for this. IDK if there is anything left that blocks me to start running Wayland... maybe input-leap? ... I have to check >__>
As I understand it, there are both security issues and issues with Flatpak is a portal is not used... so while I agree that we should move on, those advocating for using the portal do seem to have a point... so perhaps it is something which should be implemented for the moment, with a view to some work towards finding a way to address Flatpak and security issues in conjunction with other desktops.
Telling users "The DE you picked is the wrong one" is bad, but so is "Sorry, you installed Steam via Flatpak... you can't use VR"..
As long as its true it is not bad
Sandboxing should be the exception, not the rule. Steam has no reason to be a Flatpak, nor to be sandboxed.
Most Flatpaks also shouldn't be sandboxed, at all.
@@DanielClear2 I absolutely want to sandbox ANY game that I run on my computer, these are certainly a vector for potential malware!...
Also, the point of systems such as Flatpak is to create a packaging system that universal, and sandboxed by default... for security and distribution independence... in the same way that systems like Android do.
VR is pretty much the only reason I keep windows around, I have a meta quest pro, and Steam Link with it is such a great experience, previously I had a vive cosmos, the lenses are terrible, I cant go back.
2026 will be the Year of Wayland on Desktop....
Just remember, current year +1
I use Gnome since my KDE Desktop just broke very frequently for whatever reason. I don't have a VR Headset, but it is important nonetheless because more users = more good stuff.
they should fork, merge everything what hast to be merged and call it NOME
nah.. call it Troll
adwaita legacy icons, DRM support. Is Gnome changing and doing the right thing instead of the ego thing?
DRM leasing is broken with my Vive. I think its got to do with AMDs HDMI implementation - im getting a displayport to minidisplayport to test
And i run hyprland or xfce. Doesnt work on either. It sucks because i only have 2 dispalyport ports
Pretty cool but what is the state of running VR Games with a variety of VR headsets on linux?
I wonder how far ahead Wayland would've been from how it is now if Gnome didn't get involved instead of being contrarians.
The funeral oration for wayland (the end comes for everything), finally today we solved everything for everyone.
Lol is DRM leasing like making the application the compositor pretty much?
Me using alvr for a few years now and it doesnt need drm leasing 😎
Not on gnome anymore but it worked fine
how well does it work i am considering setting it up for my quest 3 on fedora
Gnome actually gets something done?? _surprised pikachu face_
At 22:28 you say that Jonas had been apprehensive about supporting the protocol, but wasnt Jonas the one who helped from the GNOME side to get the protocol merged into wayland at the beginning? I dont remember you mentioning him in the video as being apprehensive about the protocol.
Yes but he was in favour of the new GNOME portal approach as well
WOOO FINALLY LET'S GOOOOOO
I'M SO READY FOR THIS! CAN'T WAIT TO-
Oh, right, I'm on nvidia. At least this is a step in the right direction!
Server Side Decorations When?
At this point any distro that doesn't offer KDE as primary option isn't serious about desktops
As someone who is saving for a new PC and waiting for windows 10 to EoL (Whichever is first) to fully switch to Linux. I'd like for my desktop to just work with the things i use. Therefor i'm probably going to go KDE Plasma 6.1 or whatever is the latest at the time. the GNOME devs and their constant back and fourth is frustrating to see as an end user
assignee: Marge bot
lol, GNOME has humor :)
In "Hunor" the "u" is pronounced like "oo", not like "you", otherwise you pronounced it right. It's a hungarian name, and I'm assuming he follows the hungarian pronunciation.
i used Ubuntu to learn Linux because it was convenient and removes a lot of unnecessary steps if i need to set up a Linux VM but for actual long term usage as the primary OS of my PC i went to arch in the end because that brings me closer to one of the main arguments i always say for using Linux besides just getting away from Microsoft.
To me Ubuntu is like the Playground/testing ground you go to if you either dont want to get too deeply in to Linux or if you just need something Linux real quick like in my VM example but i dont see it as a Serious desktop for anything other then that and Users that you cant get to learn even just the basics necessary for anything else.
Yep, and my disdain for Gnome reinforced yet again! You take my menu I had since the first PC with GUI, and tell me a hamburger with some slop on it is better, you can GFY!🤬 Now I can't resist just kicking Gnomes across lawns, and shoving them under peoples car tires! My neighbors are starting to think I'm the insane one! But I can't be, because I have KDE Plasma!🤪🤣
People acting like they’re sending astronauts to the moon with their desktop. Brother, it’s not that serious.
FWIW This isn't a Wayland issue (imo) but the fact that the main desktops for Linux are starved of funding whilst orgs like the Linux foundation spaff $$$ up the wall for AI. Maybe if GNOME, Wayland, and KDE had a constant stream of funding from LF they could dedicate people to these important projects, even if people wanted to be weirdly bureaucratic and opinionated over implementations!
Every time I think about gnome, it causes me stress quite frankly I know it’s turned some people bald.
It's funny that gnome promotes equality and diversity, but what they need most (professionalism and maturity) is not, how long will the gnome board accept people who argue like children like Sebastian Wick and others and not even have a punishment applied?
Can't wait for the Netflix dramatisation.
What changed in Sebastian Wick and Jonas Aadhl that they took up the work of reviewing this and not discussing their alternate approach?
Like they could have, they were doing it before, and then they just went with the portals approach without mentioning their alt approach? What? Was there something not shown here?
As shown in the video. Sebastian Wick tried another solution but found it to be having other problems and as cumbersome to get done. So they went with the solution they didn't like but was agreed upon in wayland. Also, they weren't preventing someone from working on it.
19:50 😂
From cursed to blursed.
shit like this is why i am a KDE user
any touch friendly DE that exists, if there is I would switch in a sec
KDE Plasma with touch mode (on Wayland).
Kde literally has a mobile desktop environment
Gnome's one is abandoned
i really wish ubuntu went with KDE after unity. In fact i wish a lot of people went with KDE instead of GNOME.
good timing. I am using vr on gnome lol, the minor complainers need to touch grass
Hello everyone
Gnome portals annoy me to no end...
I want to use flameshot as my screenshot application, so I have it bound to the printscreen key. What happend when I press it? Nothing... Except a log message that the portal confirmation dialog couldn't be opened, because flameshot is an invisible window, so I can't allow give it permission to screenshot. Is there a way to manually force the portal dialog to open? No. Does the portal dialog open if I use the gui flameshot tool? Yes, actually. Do the permissions I grant there carry over to the keybound flameshot? No, they do not.
In essence: I can't take screenshots on gnome Wayland unless I use Gnome's inbuilt, garbage screenshot tool
First, why the hell are gnome devs not working on fractional scaling?! X11 applications are still broken or very very blur.
I have a snall 14 inch display with a resolution of 1080p. Everything looks small without scaling. If I put a command to enable it, xwayland apps get blurry.
They could take a similar approach like the kde desktop.
They are? There is literally an experimental toggle for it
Gnome ☕️
Who's this sebastian wick???
Ok, but still no window rules.
Am I gonna watch a 25 minute Sebastian Wick video or do something productive? Easy answer
Your expertise on VR and Wayland integration is truly impressive! 🌟 It's clear you have a deep understanding of these technologies. How do you foresee the future of VR adoption among Linux users, considering these recent developments? I'd love to hear your insights, though I understand you're quite busy. Your perspective would be invaluable! 😊
wait a sec....what's gnome again?
What indeed
gnot a gnoblin
gnot a gnelf
What VR headsets? Nothing current really supports Linux.
Everything Valve sells does
@@BrodieRobertsonCan confirm, I have used my Valve Index on Linux before.
@@BrodieRobertson AKA a really old index/vive VR headset. Nothing current.
@@aprile1710 The Index IS current, HTC has newer Vive models. The bigscreen beyond works on Linux. What are you talking about??
@@Zullfix The Index is over 5 years old. The HTC is a joke. I can't imagine anyone buying either in 2024. I've not seen official Linux support listed on the BigScreen so I can't say about that one. But the kind of headset someone might actually be getting today is like a Quest or a Crystal.
I really really wish everyone just collectively agrees to ignore GNOME's opinions, leave them behind, and force the corporate distros to stop using it.
Every time I hear about GNOME from these videos I slowly grow to hate them more and more even though my opinion of them was just neutral at first.
yep
Their back end is pretty silly, but I really do like a lot of the things they do, such as trying to make screen readers better on wayland. They are also in the front row of desktop innovation, like removing desktop icons (i will unironically die on this hill), background apps, etc, and they to this day are still the most polished desktop linux experience ever, despite KDE getting more advanced features.
Of course their uncooperativeness is bad but I really think GNOME brings some value to the table
I used gnome for nearly the entirety of my Linux time, and each passing year my hate grew towards them I swapped to plasma
I don't miss gnome lol
Libadwaita drastically radicalized me against them.
Brodie:
Talks about GNOME
Me after watching:
W H Y A R E T H E Y
L I K E T H I S ! ! ! ? ? ?
I don´t use gnome, I don´t care about VR, just watched it because I wanted to kill some time.
I dig how a private for profit corporation (Valve) regardless how much we happen to like them at the moment dictates what happens and everyone is cool with that.
Please explain how is Valve dictating anything in Linux? I would LOVE to read this point expanded.
Valve was involved in the discussion with the open source desktops and everyone agreed on the solution including the desktops, 2 years later one of the desktops changed their mind
Gnome was a mistake.
To answer your question at the end, I am a Gnome user, and also something of a gamer, and I would like VR to work on Gnome.... BUT, I would also rather not see Gnome be pressured to implement something if there are both issues with Flatpak support (which I use exclusively), and potential security issues also... after all, how would one use this solution on an immutable distro, for example, where all software is installed via Flatpak? Sure, it works on Steamdeck, becuase Valve build Steam into the base image, but is that really the way to do this?
I'm honestly pretty tired of gnome always wanting to do their own thing when that thing breaks what everyone else is doing. They need to adhere to the same standards everyone else is using or gtfo in my opinion.
"Gnome is going to be a broken desktop im just not gonna support it properly" aaaaaaaand close video.
Amazing content Brodie, I agree!
(Joke)
Mhmmm, Linux drama
Gnome drama
Linux drama has become my favorite drama subgenre
Its so sad, i was a total gnome 2 fan back in the days and today, today i hate gnome with passion. Nothing productive comes from thos narcistic devs. I start to believe linx desktop software would in a better place without them. Everything is so much drama with them but sadly, many distros choose them as default .... They dont seem to care if it is good or it is usable, they just want it their own way. Like Microsoft did it in the past with MSACPI. They have the same garbage behaviour like Microsoft in the past
Its disgusting what gnome is doing. Because they are on the most popular desktops they want to bully the other desktops to comply.
I am not interesting in being a zombie (vr headset users). I will stick with my working mate desktop on debian. Just works.
I need context on the zombie comment
@@BrodieRobertson Do you remember the picture with people with the vr headsets using facebook and zukerburg watching and laughing at them. Is that good enough context for you.
I love how people are still shitting on gnome despite the fact theyve done the thing everyone wanted
Yall dont have any negative bias against them. None at all, no weird hate to a foss project at all
That's not the issue. If they want to shoot themselves in the foot, then that's their choice. What's upsetting is that it hurts Linux and the image of Linux as a whole.
GNOME is not a FOSS project. It's just sourca available and randomly accepts pull requests as a freeloader.
They actively hate their users, they hate extensions, they hate themes, they hate freedom.
Brodie, you're losing me here with all these long videos reading word for word comments. This is a waste of your time and ours.
I know your struggle is to find and make content, but maybe work on your take and some better editing that's planned out. This will grow your channel with the big boys and make your watch time much longer in the long run.
Personally, I think it’s the ugliest distribution ever made. It’s a terrible version of a knock off of macOS and it’s not good. unnecessarily thick bars no dock no system Tray. The windows decorations are on the wrong side. And to fix any of it, I need mods it’s not just a simple going into settings and change something.
Honestly, I’d rather it spin off into its own thing and leave the rest of Linux alone.
And yes, I know there are extensions, but I don’t want to have to get extensions to fix basic problems that should not be there.
maybe stop managing digital rights, less headache for everyone, linux
This thread is a reminder of the importance of women's voices in shaping the narrative.💞
Huh?
@@jthoward bot
@@pingusdingus99 thanks, reported
@@jthowardI did too. 🤢🤮
"Shaping the narrative..."
You mean finally getting your bot ass out of the comment section? 😂