May I ask how one suffers from pastoral abuse? Unless one is in a serious physical disadvantage one can present the middle finger to that pastor and leave.
@@michaelanderson4849 it's phychological. There's a lot of narcissists around church leadership and it can sometimes take a while to see it. When you question their motion's or intentions they will use the Bible to defend their actions. They gaslight to keep their positions, they try to turn you against your friends and family so your isolated which gives them more power just like what happens with cults so that when you question anything you're more likely to stay because you have noone to talk to apart from them. A normal narcissist is bad enough but a narcissist pastor has that extra leverage.
I love the way Gods hand is over this online ministry and bible study using the man of God. Solid teaching on ego and pride developing into pastoral abuse. So much preaching going on with Bad theology not enough teaching. The lord using this ministry not only to teach good theology but sharing spiritual wisdom simultaneously along with going through the word. Message is not to boost the Man talking but praising the God that put the wisdom in his mind and heart. I pray the Lord continue to cover you and bless this ministry as we work together to edify each other within the body.
54:15 Listening to this cracked my heart wide open because I was in that spot, where I was being pushed away by those in authority in my church, being talked about in closed doors, and being put down when I was only being obedient to what God commanded of me. It still hurts to this day.
This has really helped me see some things in my walk. I am not a pastor, but I have relationships where I see I've developed the attitude that, even though they're fellow servants, I engage in ineffective conversations, a desire to back off the relationship due to political differences etc. As a servant, I will now go before the Lord and ask for forgiveness and wisdom. Thank you and God truly bless you.
Thanks for covering this. If a pastor teaches that whatever he says goes, without question, then he is abusing the office. If a pastor wants to take all the credit for good things that take place, then they also need to take credit for what is going wrong. We are to exhort one another. It has never been about one man on the stage receiving the praise. That is narcissistic and dangerous.
I hate it when Pastor's say: "It's MY way, or the highway!" (Or something very similar 🤔 to this.) They can start telling you what to wear, where to live, whether or not you should attend college, etc. I know, because I went through this. I would just like to say: "Be careful and watch for warning ⚠️ signs!"
My dad was a pastor and he ended up taking over a church where the previous pastor was fired for going against the will of the rest of the church. They were very traumatized by it. Took my dad years before they would trust him enough to make big decisions.
Pastor Mike, this has helped me a lot. I’ve been feeling a little lost & distrusting of Jesus (never had this issue before until I started seeking Him). Your channel & content is number 1 on my go-to list. I don’t trust many, but you’re the main one I feel that I can truly trust! I need to go back to the beginning of the Mark series & watch them in order. Thank you for all that you do, & all praise be to God 🙏🏼🙌🏼❤️
I asked GOD what I should or shouldn't do and I believe the LORD just answered me with your teaching. I sort of knew but the temptation was there. Thank you
Mike - I have never been able to warm up to cats (or vice versa!), but WOW!! Your cats could very well change that! They are beautiful and look absolutely snuggle-able ;) P.S. I have REALLY been blessed by your teachings of God's Word!
Great teaching Mike! I’ve been catching up and binging your videos this week and I appreciate how you go straight to the Bible for answers and don’t just make up things and preach them as facts. It’s refreshing.
I can’t thank you enough for talking on this topic ❤️❤️❤️ My heart hurts but is also relieved through watching this. I and my family recently left a church that has great people but with a pastor just like this. We left due to poor treatment, but soon after leaving the pastor went publicly in front of the entire church and spread lies about us to make himself look like the good guy, as if he had made us leave. We are trying to heal and help our kids through not understanding why we left. And now we know what to look for and avoid.
Thank you. When I heard you mention 'protecting the vision' and use the word 'rank' I almost fell off my chair. This teaching certainly brought recent experiences into sharp focus. Ironically I recognised the pastor spoken of in Mike's example from back in his days at Bible College. Yet the all the text used addresses such abuses and makes then void.
Some time ago i came to the understanding that it really was not my will but Gods' that counts. That i needed to understand that God has a purpose for my life and He happens to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much in a better position to guide my life. So not my will but Yours God is my belief also. So my failing heart is secondary in importance. But my understanding that His will is So important and I must trust Him with all my heart and love Him for it with no regrets.
Thanks so much for dealing with what is and can be a very sensitive topic. It's so important to check our hearts regularly for our motive and intent before criticizing leaders and vice versa. Mike, your wisdom and gentleness is such a blessing! God bless you as you labour for God in this ministry. Love your kitty too!!!
Thank you for making these videos ...you said you welcome questions , and you touched on whether to leave a church ..This has been eating at me for months . I became a Christian at 40 . I loved my first church when I was just learning , and the pastor had to straighten out my understanding more than once ! He retired after 5 years and the new pastor told me Jesus was just a good man and we should try to follow him but he was NOT the son of God , the Bible was just a lot of stories and traditions...My husband and I had children , so we left...The next church I liked , but when he retired I went to a board meeting about children's church , and the board members laid out a list for the new pastor , NO teaching on divorce or sex or any sin , ONLY uplifting messages , we took our children and left . The next church , a woman friend of mine took over and started labyrinth walking ,meditations and my husband disliked it so we left .. The next church I really loved , then the pastor retired a few years later and the new pastor , who I like , said we should not read the Bible, no one knows what it really means , and seemed to be preaching a social gospel...covid hit and we haven't been back ..we are so lost as what to do ...is this just normal ? I have been a Christian 20 years I feel like a failure at " church" , my Grandma went to the same church 60 years and had different pastors..am I being too picky??
I literally laughed out loud when you mentioned Ehud. 😂 cause he was my favorite judge in my younger days. Not just cause he was hard-core, but also because he was left handed. 👍👍👍
1:30 “they misunderstand the very nature of the Kingdom of God”. YES and worse, many abusive ‘pastors’ are those that preach most on ‘the kingdom’ (ie WoF)
This is such an important topic! Thank you for sharing your perspective on this I learned a lot. Maybe you can also discuss at length the heart attitude believers need to maintain when trying to navigate these issues when they recognize these things in their own church leadership. Mike, I have been so blessed by your ministry in this coronavirus season and I thank God for how He is using you to bless the body of Christ.
Mike, this is really good. I know I have seen a couple of videos where much of the topic has been leadership. I wish I would have noted which ones. I know one was in 1 Peter. It would be really nice to have a playlist on the topic. I think you are speaking not just from scripture, but experiential wisdom. Human sin and even the way the enemy will tempt is common across the board and such a playlist would be really helpful for those who are asked to serve in positions for the first time. It might save people some heartache and hard lessons. Angela
Sometimes I wonder if I would have been better or worse off if I had grown up christian but less "churched" , I definately feel like I have been damaged by church culture and politics. Pastors have a profound ability to hurt church members.
What? You are not “just” a stay at home mom. You have an amazing ministry to pour into your children all that The Lord has. You have a great calling. I wish I did better. God bless you. 💐💐
I know this is a while ago, but I think being a stay at home parent is the most respectable and important job one can have. And that’s from a college student pursuing a PhD.
Thank y'all so much for the kind words of encouragement! I'm often looked down on because I havent had a paying job in over 12 years and I'm only 32...I guess I started feeling a bit ashamed. My husband and three kids mean the world to me and I'll sacrifice the next 50 years as well, if thats Gods will. 😁 Thank yall again!
@@tabbyhamilton533 The people who look down on you are very prideful and have forgotten what is important in life. When people are on their deathbed, they never wish they spent more time in the office. They wish they spent more time with their family.
I agree, I'm beginning to see that more and more as my kids grow and I see the hand of God in their lives. I'm extremely blessed, no doubt about it. However I'm really happy not everyone looks at us stay at home moms with contempt or pity. Thank you so much!
Praise God for this lesson. I love the copious use of scripture. Well thought out and explained. I've been in a church where the "leader" exhibited some or all of these negative characteristics. Very painful for everyone involved. Except for him. He was impenetrable as far as being confronted with his faults. But he certainly had everyone else's down pat. One of the problems from the church members's side is many people go along to get along. People don't want the potential backlash of confrontation. No one wants to be alienated. Church becomes a social club where honesty is banished rather than a place where we speak the truth in love to each other (Ephesians 4:15). It used to be that the most well-known verse was John 3:16. Now it's Matthew 7:1. "YOU CAN'T JUDGE ME!! ONLY GOD CAN!!" Or they don't see the church as a living body that can be infected and possibly die from such behaviors at the top. PEOPLE GO TO CHURCH RATHER THAN BEING THE CHURCH. Church is a place they go, a destination rather who they are. WE are the Church. At least we're supposed to be. There's danger in leaving ministry to the "professionals," the ones with the titles, degrees, eloquence or charisma (translated: pride and arrogance). But in reality each believer is called by God to his royal priesthood not just a select, educated, bossy few. The leadership/membership relationship is symbiotic. If the leadership leaves the people alone to their private SELF-interest seeking lives, the people leave the leaders alone, throw money in the offering basket and keep them up on a pedestal. Everybody wins! After all, they only have to put up with each other for a couple of hours each week. That's how spiritual disease spreads. And by it the many become defiled.
Love this teaching! I'm only a couple of years late going through this Mark series, but I'm finding it to be a wonderful supplement to my personal Bible study time.
This was really great wisdom! I have been in some situations both volunteer and paid staff where this has been very true, but I also just tried to take it in for my leadership. Instead of just pointing the finger at Pastors who have caused harm in my past. Thanks for all you do to help encourage fellow believers. I really enjoy the content you put out!
SO MUCH wisdom in this video, not just for spiritual leaders, but for ALL leaders. A leader - ANY leader - is a SERVANT. PERIOD. Otherwise you're just a "boss" and nobody likes a boss. 👍👍👍👍
Thank you for this Mike, as a leader its causing me to reflect on myself and the leaders that raised me up in the faith. I appreciate your heart in sharing those scriptures toward the end.
I'm sad. I been in a church my whole life from which leaders fought over authority. Even to the point where my best friend at the time used me and abused me at once for a place in ministry. My father was also treated similarly. I lost hope in the body for so long and still struggle to become incorporated. If I was honest. This really tested my faith. And if I'm honest being a early Christian at the time. I did fall away from christ for a long time
Great video. How do we, (if we are supposed to) to confront/share with a leader who is exhibiting signs of leader abuse, protecting their positional reputation? To me this lends itself with the bad habit/concept that its the leaders who only do the ministry, rather than equipping the lay people to be participants not simply fans in the bleachers.
Thank you for this awesome teaching. I always find many things of value in your teaching and I am so glad that it is available world-wide on RUclips. I used to be part of a congregation which had what seemed to be a very charismatic leader (not “charismatic” in the sense of “if it moves it must be the Holy Spirit” but having charisma). He was quite boastful and was always going on about his love of theology and how proud he was of his theological degree - it was as if he put this above his love for the Lord. OK, his preaching was often very good, but too often he would use the pulpit for self-promotion, and also for promoting some of his very unbiblical views, based more on what the world thinks about things than what the Bible says. I felt a real need to confront him on a number of occasions and it really pained me to do it - partly because being so charismatic he was able to manipulate any conversation to his own advantage and make one feel guilty for “challenging his authority” - in a subtle, veiled way he was actually quite a bully - and partly because I was afraid - it took courage to put myself in the firing line of someone who was extremely clever intellectually and who was able to manipulate a conversation to his own advantage before you knew what was happening. I found it was easier to set down my objections in the form of a letter, so that he did not distract my line of reasoning. Each time, I backed up every point I wanted to make with Scripture. This fell on deaf ears, and he simply responded by handing me huge wadges of articles written by men who agreed with him (all having a very liberal approach to Scripture) and by his own admission, he was of a “liberal” persuasion. I was far from being alone in the congregation for being concerned about this man, and one Sunday when he gave us a tirade from the pulpit, using it as a platform for promoting his very unbiblical views, I wrote the first of many letters. The following Sunday he was away, and a member of the congregation (one of the elders) took his place at the pulpit. This man was older, and such a dear, Godly man, full of humility and grace. Before he began to preach, he said, “Before I begin, let me say that I do not agree with everything that is spoken from this pulpit.” He didn’t make any accusations but let it rest at that. Most of the people there would not have had sufficient knowledge of the Scriptures to realise that what the pastor was promoting was wrong; they just thought it was one of the bees in his bonnet and left it at that. The other man did not undermine the pastor’s position but merely stated, to anyone who had ears to hear and a heart to understand, that he disagreed. We had a long conversation afterwards. I had been very upset by what had happened, and he was so encouraging and helpful. I had so many issues with this pastor that in the end I was put in a position of unresolvable conflict with him and my only choice was to leave the church. Until I did that, I had not realised how much, and for how long, I had been robbed of my peace. I joined another church, which certainly isn’t perfect (what church is?!) but from the beginning it was like a healing balm to my soul. Church leaders like this can batter the spirits of their congregation and crush them. So much of what you have shared in this talk resonated with me. I could well imagine this man replying as that bad leader did in your meeting. He had surrounded himself with a little circle of sycophants who never disagreed with him and reinforced him at every turn, and would call him “the boss” and we had to do what he said, if we ever had any complaints. Many people left that church, and many people remained, bruised and unhappy. I do not regret having attended because it taught me a great deal about leadership and about priorities, and also about courage, and how to confront things when they are wrong, and doing it in a humble and Biblical way. It is very, very sad that there is so much of this sort of thing in the church. I think part of the problem is that the Protestant churches are often not quite as reformed as they think they are, and vestiges of old Roman Catholic thinking, particularly relating to authority, have carried through. Having one man as leader, the congregation expects him to be good at absolutely everything and then blames him when he is not, which is unrealistic and unfair. It also opens the door to abuse because “the man at the top” takes on more authority than he should. I have seen congregations where yes, there is a pastor, but his main gift is recognising the gifting in others, and people are allowed to grow and blossom in that gifting, and the whole congregation is blessed - every member becomes an organ in the body, performing as he is designed to do, and the whole body is united and reflects the heart of Jesus between its individual members, and to the wider community and the world. I think many of these bullying leaders who abuse their position and their congregation are deeply insecure, and always trying to prove themselves. When kids are bullied at school, they are always told that bullies are cowards, and this doesn’t cease when the bullies grow up. Just my opinion anyway!
I'm amazed at the audacity of prosperity preachers in they HAVE to know they are falsely teaching, for their own financial gain, and have to know they will be judged for it.
Hi Mike, I had a question during live chat but I will ask again if missed. What do we do with 1 Timothy 2:12 Women not speaking in church? How do we as women challenge our, or anyone's Pastor or Minister about his "Issues" what ever they may be, if we are not to speak. Do we leave it up to the men to address the concerns? Don't we as the Body have a role in Edifying one another? Thanks for the video.
vicky martin Greetings in the Name of Jesus Christ. Hi Vicky. May I share with you from scripture some thoughts on this topic or did you want to wait to discuss with Pastor Mike?
vicky martin May the Lord guide us in the reading of his word. I would like to preface this by saying two things. That Men and Women are equal in Gods eyes inside the Body of Christ as it’s says in scripture: “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:27-28 KJV They do however have different roles. Through out all creation even from the beginning in the book genesis you can see a natural order in Adam being created and then Eve being created from Adam. 1st Timothy 2:12 is a scripture than can easily be abused by both men and women. If we are reading the scriptures in these two understandings that Paul as an Apostle operates in an Apostolic state, speaking on with authority of Christ and hears from God as well. Granting him authority from Christ and is able to write and create doctrine. Under the other understanding that all scripture breathed by God as it says: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV If we read now 1st Timothy 2:12 with these understandings, we can see God’s perfects order that already exists in His creation. Some of the popular arguments that I have heard from people is that this was a different time. Another is where not all part of scripture is relevant today. Another where the same Paul that wrote this has women in his ministry ect... The Bible’s itself says and debunks what most Christians make claims to: “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.” Hebrews 13:8-9 KJV God doesn’t change and is is consistent. Also recognizing that the women in Paul’s ministry operated not on there own accord but under Paul’s instructions when being sent out. So with getting back to 1st Timothy 2:12 There are a few key take aways. Women not being suffered to teach, not having dominion over a man and also realizing that this is within the Body of Christ, the Church, The assembly of the Body in the House of God. It’s a guideline of how to be when the word is actually being taught. There for if not inside the House of God it’s assumed these rules may not apply as the do during teaching in the church as long as we operating still within the scriptures perimeters and using biblical wisdom as a man or woman of God. A Key thing is not having authority over a man. Leadership roles by nature of Gods divine order is gender specific. Within the body of Christ no one is above the other in rank just different parts that function to do different things inside One Body. For the teaching of Gods word over both men and women it’s is for a man to do. I woman can teach other woman though and also all Christians both men and woman are to share to the Good news of the Gospel that Christ came, died and rose again that all that believe in will not perish but have everlasting life. This is not teaching this is more prophesying the Gospel to all that will listen which is the most important even though for more Christians it’s looked upon As the least. Thinking usually that the only way they can be used in Ministry is to preach but there are so many roles that are all equally important. Also seeing that the guidelines Paul is laying out is within the Church of Christ but outside of that you may be able to operate with grace to share to an unbeliever that’s a man or a woman. That’s still not teaching that us following Jesus Christs command to go into all the world and share the Gospel. Because that’s not teaching your just testifying of the Goodnews! Which is something lacking not so much in the Body of Christ but inside Christianity. That word of going out beyond the 4 walls of a sanctuary into the high ways and by ways. This is a mandate unto all Christians. Also Men and Women have things in there Christian walks that will test there obedience to see if they will listen to pride and ego or actually follow Christ. For example in scripture it says: “Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.” James 3:1 NIV Some many are not called to teach but they bring it upon themselves for various personal reasons and hence for the most part teach it in error. Not actually called by God to do it. Then on the flip side I know women that know the Bible better than most men but as act of humility and obedience to God they don’t teach or become pastors. Even though inside ourself we know we can do something it doesn’t mean we should do it. There are many things we ability to do but but one has to choose rather to follow Gods voice and instruction rather than your own egos desires. My mother was a great example of this. Even though knowing the word never took on the role of a Pastor because she was born again and truly loved Jesus. If you love Jesus and are his sheep you are going to not only hear his voice but follow him too. There are examples of women teaching other woman in scripture and it’s something that is extremely needed in the Body of Christ. Most often our human nature’s always want to override Gods instructions and also His divine order within His creation. What usually happens is we want to do something and regardless of what scriptures says we are going to do what we want any ways. This is pride at its worse coming from either gay pride, feminism or just down right disobedient men and women. The scriptures test us in many ways and one of them is obedience and humility. A few examples of what has been birthed from our rebellious nature against God’s written word is that of false teachers, women pastors and LGBTQ Pastors ect... All presenting a solid case on why they are a Pastor and fighting tooth and nail to prove that even though it goes against scripture it’s what they are supposed be doing. There many roles in Jesus Christ’s ministry for both men and women. It’s just important to always stand firm on the word of God and trust it. We have to alway keep in the frame work of our minds that there is a nature in our flesh that naturally always want to rebel against God. Both the saved and the unsaved are like this. But for the saved We have the Holy Ghost that will minister to us as and teach us the wisdom of God through his word. We choose to crucify the flesh and pick up our cross and follow Jesus. One first has to be born again before they can get this wisdom of God inside his word. Without being born again the things of the Bible become overwhelming and make no sense. As you stick with it and grow in your faith you see God in it, you see the Son all over it and you see the Holy Ghost minister to the heart, soul abs mind of the born again believer in Christ. One day in My Christian walk I made a solid decision that I was going to stand and follow all of scripture no matter how uncomfortable it made me. Since that decision it has helped me in my walk. I no longer I have to rely on my human cleverness to explain the Bible to anyone. I just let it speak for itself without us over complicating it with our human nature that scriptures says is shaped in sin and iniquity in the book of psalms. Now all I have to do is follow Jesus Christ, His words and teachings. Believe upon him and him alone for my salvation. That has removed the complexity of me trying to reason it out to make it sound a certain way to the listener or person I am speaking to. It just is what it is. God is just “I AM”. God says in scripture that his ways are not like our ways many places one saying this: “These things you have done and I kept silence; You thought that I was just like you; I will reprove you and state the case in order before your eyes.” Psalms 50:21 NASB One of the things that we humans do is project our own thinking upon God and he says that’s a mistake. I pray that made sense as sometimes my talking is a little better understood than my writing. All praises to King Jesus. 👑 ❤️🕊✝️ God is good.
JoAnn Thomases Your comment is not entirely clear but Satan is the adversary or enemy and he is defeated. A created being whose first sin was pride against YHWH - God.
Totally agreed on the abuse issue i have been there. It helps having your phone recording. Plus being prepared with the right scriptures. I had to leave the Pastor was totally blind to the problem but he was not upset. He was willing to stay with his mess and keep his job.
I never thought of the 2 sinners who hung with Jesus as being those at his left and right. I would have to agree with that though, since Jesus is at the right hand of God in heaven. I always wondered how one would be on his left. Plus he was speaking of the cup (suffering) and baptism (death). I love going through these verse by verse studies! Thanks for each one.
Our deacon was recently asked to preach because the pastor was tired. We were treated to a long sermon about the pastor being tired, and how the congregation wasn't doing enough to support him. I've noticed that the deacon continually places himself subservient to the pastor, saying the God deals harshly with him if he ever denies the pastor. This has been bugging me, and now I'm beginning to see why, because our pastor did nothing to correct the "God-pastor-congregation" chain that the deacon was teaching. It is to the point that the deacon said at a revival that if the pastor told him to jump off a bridge, he would, without question. His reason is that there might be a list person at the bridge, and that God would stop him if that was the case.
Some pastors are on a “mission from God”, often from sketchy personal revelation and they approach ministry as a methodology to follow their “mission” at the expense of servanthood. A culture of “honor” can be a disguise for maintaining power at the expense of servanthood.
Hi Pastor Mike, I was born again recently, this is also due to a friend of mine which was in a ministry called Christ Embassy. A few weeks in I realised I did not align with their practices (overuse of tongues on command, blowing on people who fell backwards) furthermore there are a few scandals around the main pastor.... I explained this to them and told them I was leaving, I am alone here where I live as I am a student and did not feel comfortable going to this meeting as at the beginning the pastor did not even answer me, he sent 2 sisters to try to understand what had happened in indirect way. Growing tiered of this I called one of them and exposed by findings and said that due to this I would be leaving this particular ministry, I truly feel it was my conscience (the Holy Spirit I might say) that told me to be ware and take some distance. This initiated 3 days of messages pushing me for one more in person meeting, just because of the pressure, I felt that I really did not want to do this ....so I said I was available for a zoom, but not comfortable in person. In the end I think “as a last straw” he called me, and I explained to him. He started saying he didn’t want to convince me but that I couldn’t JUST LEAVE because as a pastor on judgment day, he will be accountable for me. This terrified me of course, I asked him if he was saying that I would be damned because of his judgment, he answered no, and that this was not a Christian question...ok. So he then goes on to saying that “if you come and speak to me, with what I will tell you, I Assure you that you will want to stay”, I really had to hold strong.... and say.... no....he repeated this same thing a couple times. It’s a Pentecostal/prosperity type church....I cannot say they don’t have Jesus as their centre....but something had gone wrong in my view top down. Please can you give me some insight on why he was so troubles by me leaving his “flock”? He also compared himself to the “mother and the child” and that mother is best fit to make her child grow....I said it depends on the mother but in a perfect world....yes. I mean..... you get the jist..... please help. 🙏❤️
I'm currently studying Acts, and what I was amazed was that when the apostles wanted to select ministers for the Greek speaking widows, they set up 3 criteria. I believe that this is what I would also look for if I was looking for anyone to be in ministry. The 3 are: 1. Of good repute, in other words have a good name in the congregation. 2. Be full of the Holy Spirit 3. Be full of wisdom.
Cool, as someone newer to the bible here, I always felt that learning how to lead with humility is an implicit challenge that all pastors have to face at some point. It's nice to see that it's mentioned explicitly here.
That is great stuff. I think we as people vacillate between how we act. That is something we must keep after. There is a difference between talking yo the faithful & a non-believer though. Often I will just point out a logical issue to the person in their thinking. You can say someone understood a thing, but people don't care unless they already accept the text. Still, if it is obvious in the text, the question is answered. Many times people will give a wooden reading to those statements from Jesus about getting whatever you ask for. Sometimes this is hope, but often it is just desire of gain. Prosperity preachers fall in here. Still, no master violates his own will to give you a thing just because you follow him. This immature mentality that the mountains move on your command is just empty. You are forgetting the reason that promise was made & its context. If you are serving God's will, you should expect he will help. Still, often you are relying on a person who is tapped to step up. So keep at the prayer so they feel the need or you get the direction to ask. Don't give up in prayer to any good end, but I don't think God wants everyone to win the lottery. Keep it honest. This should be common sense, but it us rarely common.
The examples for ministry are universal for all of us regardless of circumstance. Laying down the glories of power, the flesh and money. Interesting that Billy Graham mentioned this too!
Testimony;...I was at a church service once and I was called up to be prayed for, I was told to sit in a chair & extend my legs, they prayed for me & said my legs were growing and a huge show ensued, I was told that my entire life I walked with a limp and my leg had grown in front of everyone's eyes....it was all a lie because my legs were always just fine except for my flat feet which DIDNT get healed....having gone through this experience I will not allow ANYBODY to lay hands on me ever again unless I feel guided to by the spirit of God & I ask for it.....
It's not about "you". 1:02:00 That's importante to remember, we defend the "vision" so much that we end up in allegence with our Church rather that The Word of God.
My ex father in law was a Methodist pastor and was EVERYTHING you mentioned a pastor SHOULDN'T be. I tried writing him letters in private and he would immediately share them with my wife. In letters of my asking for reconciliation he would respond that whatever I did was worse and that he and his wife wouldn't soon forgive me . Mind you I was a virgin when I met his daughter and never drank, smoked etc and was an acolyte at church and love God. Whatever I "did" was fabricated in his mind. He would lie to my wife and say that I was tricking her and that anything nice I did for her was because I wanted sex. It's sad. He and his family have blacklisted me despite many attempts on my end to share my sons life via texts/photos and public Facebook posts I know they can see. I continually pray for the man and his wife (who is complicit in his actions) and I just don't know what to do for the sake of my son. My son sees how much I love people and that I pray for his mother and grandparents but that THEY want nothing to do with me or refuse to invite me to holidays etc. They continue to support my wife leaving our family and causing the hurt that our son now has to face by being torn between a father that still loves his mother and a mother, and her family, that would rather his dad were dead :( Im torn between absolute disgust at their behavior (especially his being a pastor and knowing better) but I also feel sad for them and would much rather they got saved and turned to Jesus 😀
“The enemy isn’t Rome it’s Satan The problem wasn’t Rome it’s SIN.” 👏🏾 G O L D This Mark series has helped me grow tremendously. Thank you Mark, I mean Mike haha Jkjk (I know it’s Mike)!
Pastor worship is rampant in American churches. Many pastors don't come to serve. They come to be served and worshipped. Many are narcissists that don't want to get over themselves. They sure love all that power, authority, and being the center of peoples' attention and adoration.
Thank you - This is so needed in the body. I do have two questions. I will sum up your description of "bad leadership" with the phrase "the business model" for the sake of asking my questions. Also, my own testimony to set the context for questions: I spent 10 years serving and trying to just look to Jesus resiting acting in ways you described but found the gatekeepers if you will unwilling to help. Help find opportunities even at other churches in the network they did not want to lose volunteer promote inside due to self-protection. I am out of the situation but worried about many in that place of being misused. 1.) "What if the business model of leadership is already fully integrated into the church's culture and people who serve the right way are often misused in their willingness to follow Jesus and just serve. It seems you would say "just take it like Jesus would take it and serve anyway" and I can see how you should but is there a point when you have to say enough is enough. (there are whole teachings of getting and keeping volunteers that promote this) making false promises, verbal encouragement (vain compliments), etc.. 2.) It seems to me that this business model is the norm and if the norm then unless you play the game you not going anywhere (which I know is not ethical or an option). The larger the church the easier it is to have this mentality. Because there is an excess of eager bodies it becomes a meat grinder of throwing people away for there is always somebody to replace them. Sadly this whole model itself habituates practices that promote vices of the kind you spoke and I see no way for it to change. For the vices, all hinge on self-protection. How do you think things will change if ever? Anyway, thanks again - It gave me hope.
Mike, I know you feel strongly about Christians belonging or attending church but I have yet to find a church home in my many years of Christian walk. I am thankful for the internet and ability to find good teaching and some small interaction with like minded believers. I remember you having videos and/or answering questions on being part of a church group. I realize I need to look within and adjust expectations to a point, but still find issue with the abundance of un-Christian or faulty Christian actions and values going on in churches. I probably have not searched hard enough but the disappointment is discouraging. Last year after several visits to a new church I thought I found it until I suddenly realized every single female was in a dress. I asked and was told "we don't judge but hope the Holy Spirit will convict you" 😒 Next. Edit: Is that right or wrong of me to move on, if I do not believe pants made and designed for females is NOT wearing male attire? It seems to me that the churches who believe that forgetting that the males who wrote that passage were wearing robes. It's crazy to me that people use modern clothes design -ex: dresses for women that accentuate women's legs, make them more vulnerable and even flirtatious as a sign of piety, while a conservatively dressed female in pants is considered "less than".
Paul never wanted to use the word "pastor" as a title but as a metaphor. the misinterpretation of titles and offices began in the 5th century till today. IN HEB.13.7 IT SAYS: ποιμένας (HEGOUMENON): ARE CONDUCTED; IT DOES NOT SAY ποιμένας (POIMENAS): PASTORS. In the following block of passages the word gr. poimenas (shepherds) and bishops does not appear. - ἐπισκοπῆς (episcopes). To care for others, to supervise. 1 Tim.3.1 - τὸν τὸν (he who cares), he who supervises, 1 Tim.3.2 - καλῶς καλῶς(kalós pristamenon) well directed, well cared for. 1.Tim.3.4 - προστῆναι (prostenai) cares, directs 1. Tim.3.5 - ἐπιμελήσεται (epimelésetai) will take care? 1. Tim.3.5 - ἡγουμένων (egoménon). Leads, directs.Heb.13.7 - Πρεσβυτέρῳ (presbyter) old man, older brother, 1. Tim.5.1 - προεστῶτες (protesters) lead, care πρεσβύτεροι (presbyteroi) elder, 1Tim.5.17 - πρεσβυτέρους (presbíteros) elders Titus 1.5 - Πρεσβύτας (presbutas) elders Titus 2.2 - And when they had appointed them - πρεσβυτέρους (presbyters) elders - by vote in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed. Acts 14.23. The context shows that they were not strangers or outsiders hatched from the seminary or from a superior directive that imposed a style of government on them, but that the sheep were held up as an example from among the flock in the care of others, and that honor was given to the one who deserved it by what he was already doing to encourage him to continue in his theology of giving, as simple as that.
loTRUTHve to all of you brothers, let me ask. Is it not curious how in the present, the closer you get to God and His Word, the less you are attracted to what we call “The Church”. It should be just “a people”, not an institution.
The Lord will humble me when i start thinking that “i am in charge”. Our suffering will teach us, and God will make sure we understand He is the Boss. Romans 12:1 is a very needful thought/prayer/choice BEFORE Romans 12:2. It’s very humbling. “Thy will be done.” “Covetousness” can often be our expectation to have our prayer answered, “our way”. “We must go through many hardships before we enter the Kingdom of God.” Acts 14:22b We are all learning…we are all at different growth places. Women can be a help to men in this way.
What would be the Biblical stance on escaping from narcissistic families? I don't know if I'm breaking the commandment to honour my parents by cutting them out of my life. Both are unreasonable and abusive, and I had to involve the police to untangle them from my finances. When I escaped they then attempted to portray me as a psychopath to extended family, even telling them they feared I was a serial rapist, and a murderer. They even went so far as to gather up items I'd abandoned in their home and declare that I was a 'far right terrorist' because I owned camping equipment and items related to historical reenactment. My grandma bought their story, as did my brothers, and sisters. They now tell everyone who will listen that I've gone insane and am now hooked on heroin and cocaine, and being controlled by cultists on the internet. (Ironic, as they put on a public persona of being Mormon and all are prescribed psych meds.) Am I supposed to open myself up to these evil people, or is the absence of revenge honour enough for their sort? A muslim friend told me that Abraham was chastised by God for praying for his father who was evil, but I don't know if that is Scripture, or Islam.
I have no idea if you read comments but.... Thank you so much for this teaching. It is confirming a lot of the things my husband and I have been praying about for the past few years after leaving from under some unhealthy church leadership. One thing that I have really been trying to figure out and have seriously been praying about is, how are we actually supposed to do when under a leader like this? I spent so long praying for them (it was pretty much word for word the last 30 minutes of your video) and for me (to know what to do and to remain humble and not to become bitter) but I am still unsure how I should have handled it... Do you confront it in a loving way? Do you speak to church leadership about it? Do you simply need to leave that church if it is clear that this behavior is not going to change (and they are even training others to be exactly like them in all of this unbiblical disfunction)? I wrestle so much with if my prayers were enough... not because God isn’t enough but because others have been abused and have left the church (some are hurt but are healing but others have literally left the church as a whole and it’s utterly heartbreaking). In trying to respect my pastor’s leadership and honor them as people am I simply enabling them to continue? Is that further abuse they inflicted on others partially my fault because I didn’t know to do anything different? I would really love to hear some biblical perspective on how we should walk this out and respond to those leaders where it is 100% obvious they are abusing/manipulating/controlling their congregation consistently (for years).... I have now had so many conversations with other church leaders that have dealt with this too and we are all in this same “bewildered” boat of not quite knowing how to handle this... Thank you again for all you are doing for the body of Christ. Your videos are always spot in and encouraging!
At around 40:44, you mention Matthew as a witness of these things, so he has more details, but Mark is an account of Peter's eye witness testimony. So, are you suggesting that Matthew witnessed this aspect of it and Peter did not?
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Thank you Mike, as someone that has suffered from pastoral abuse in the past, I'm grateful you've taken the time to do this. God bless you as always.
May I ask how one suffers from pastoral abuse? Unless one is in a serious physical disadvantage one can present the middle finger to that pastor and leave.
@@michaelanderson4849 it's phychological. There's a lot of narcissists around church leadership and it can sometimes take a while to see it. When you question their motion's or intentions they will use the Bible to defend their actions. They gaslight to keep their positions, they try to turn you against your friends and family so your isolated which gives them more power just like what happens with cults so that when you question anything you're more likely to stay because you have noone to talk to apart from them. A normal narcissist is bad enough but a narcissist pastor has that extra leverage.
@@Peter-tq9ys It might be that a persons ability to give a clear cut psychopath the finger is affected by the lingering reward of immortality.
@@michaelanderson4849 plenty of atheists fall victims to psychopaths too.
@@Peter-tq9ys agreed
I love the way Gods hand is over this online ministry and bible study using the man of God. Solid teaching on ego and pride developing into pastoral abuse. So much preaching going on with Bad theology not enough teaching. The lord using this ministry not only to teach good theology but sharing spiritual wisdom simultaneously along with going through the word. Message is not to boost the Man talking but praising the God that put the wisdom in his mind and heart. I pray the Lord continue to cover you and bless this ministry as we work together to edify each other within the body.
54:15 Listening to this cracked my heart wide open because I was in that spot, where I was being pushed away by those in authority in my church, being talked about in closed doors, and being put down when I was only being obedient to what God commanded of me. It still hurts to this day.
This has really helped me see some things in my walk. I am not a pastor, but I have relationships where I see I've developed the attitude that, even though they're fellow servants, I engage in ineffective conversations, a desire to back off the relationship due to political differences etc. As a servant, I will now go before the Lord and ask for forgiveness and wisdom. Thank you and God truly bless you.
Hey, how is it going? Has this message stuck with you?
Thanks for covering this. If a pastor teaches that whatever he says goes, without question, then he is abusing the office. If a pastor wants to take all the credit for good things that take place, then they also need to take credit for what is going wrong. We are to exhort one another. It has never been about one man on the stage receiving the praise. That is narcissistic and dangerous.
I hate it when Pastor's say: "It's MY way, or the highway!" (Or something very similar 🤔 to this.) They can start telling you what to wear, where to live, whether or not you should attend college, etc. I know, because I went through this. I would just like to say: "Be careful and watch for warning ⚠️ signs!"
My dad was a pastor and he ended up taking over a church where the previous pastor was fired for going against the will of the rest of the church. They were very traumatized by it. Took my dad years before they would trust him enough to make big decisions.
Pastor Mike, this has helped me a lot. I’ve been feeling a little lost & distrusting of Jesus (never had this issue before until I started seeking Him). Your channel & content is number 1 on my go-to list. I don’t trust many, but you’re the main one I feel that I can truly trust! I need to go back to the beginning of the Mark series & watch them in order. Thank you for all that you do, & all praise be to God 🙏🏼🙌🏼❤️
I asked GOD what I should or shouldn't do and I believe the LORD just answered me with your teaching. I sort of knew but the temptation was there. Thank you
I agree with yor teaching here. Too many think the pastor is a general rather than a servant. We are all servants.
Thank you brother for allowing God to use you! This lesson has blessed me. I've never heard this preached.
Mike - I have never been able to warm up to cats (or vice versa!), but WOW!! Your cats could very well change that! They are beautiful and look absolutely snuggle-able ;)
P.S. I have REALLY been blessed by your teachings of God's Word!
Great teaching Mike! I’ve been catching up and binging your videos this week and I appreciate how you go straight to the Bible for answers and don’t just make up things and preach them as facts. It’s refreshing.
It’s crazy that we feel it’s “refreshing” right? This is how it should be
Aww, I love the pretty cat. So sweet. And as always, thank you for your lovely teaching and break down of scripture. 😌🌹
Thank you Pastor, very healing teaching. So needed on both ends of ministry. Good bless you!
Really appreciate you Mike and your heart! This is a really good reminder for us christians and for those in leadership in the church ,thank you.
I can’t thank you enough for talking on this topic ❤️❤️❤️ My heart hurts but is also relieved through watching this. I and my family recently left a church that has great people but with a pastor just like this. We left due to poor treatment, but soon after leaving the pastor went publicly in front of the entire church and spread lies about us to make himself look like the good guy, as if he had made us leave. We are trying to heal and help our kids through not understanding why we left. And now we know what to look for and avoid.
Thank you, Pastor Mike! This has brought so much light to my dilemma. 🙏🏻
I didn't want this study to end. It's very profound. I wish a lot of people were to hear this. I will share share share.
May you be protected brother Mike! You are such a blessing and I praise our Lord Jesus for your work in his glorious Kingdom 🙌
Thank you. When I heard you mention 'protecting the vision' and use the word 'rank' I almost fell off my chair. This teaching certainly brought recent experiences into sharp focus.
Ironically I recognised the pastor spoken of in Mike's example from back in his days at Bible College. Yet the all the text used addresses such abuses and makes then void.
Thanks for this. I found it helpful. I loved your comment about insecurities, “I have a boatload of my own!” So funny but hard to imagine. 😊
Some time ago i came to the understanding that it really was not my will but Gods' that counts. That i needed to understand that God has a purpose for my life and He happens to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much in a better position to guide my life. So not my will but Yours God is my belief also. So my failing heart is secondary in importance. But my understanding that His will is So important and I must trust Him with all my heart and love Him for it with no regrets.
Thanking the Lord for faithful servants and Pastors like this - good word!
Thanks so much for dealing with what is and can be a very sensitive topic. It's so important to check our hearts regularly for our motive and intent before criticizing leaders and vice versa. Mike, your wisdom and gentleness is such a blessing! God bless you as you labour for God in this ministry. Love your kitty too!!!
Mike
Wonderfully done episode. Obviously very personal for you...that really brings the message home. Thank you.
Thank you for making these videos ...you said you welcome questions , and you touched on whether to leave a church ..This has been eating at me for months . I became a Christian at 40 . I loved my first church when I was just learning , and the pastor had to straighten out my understanding more than once ! He retired after 5 years and the new pastor told me Jesus was just a good man and we should try to follow him but he was NOT the son of God , the Bible was just a lot of stories and traditions...My husband and I had children , so we left...The next church I liked , but when he retired I went to a board meeting about children's church , and the board members laid out a list for the new pastor , NO teaching on divorce or sex or any sin , ONLY uplifting messages , we took our children and left . The next church , a woman friend of mine took over and started labyrinth walking ,meditations and my husband disliked it so we left .. The next church I really loved , then the pastor retired a few years later and the new pastor , who I like , said we should not read the Bible, no one knows what it really means , and seemed to be preaching a social gospel...covid hit and we haven't been back ..we are so lost as what to do ...is this just normal ? I have been a Christian 20 years I feel like a failure at " church" , my Grandma went to the same church 60 years and had different pastors..am I being too picky??
Thank you again for your honesty and frankness! We serve and we step away for people to meet Jesus.
I literally laughed out loud when you mentioned Ehud. 😂 cause he was my favorite judge in my younger days. Not just cause he was hard-core, but also because he was left handed. 👍👍👍
1:30 “they misunderstand the very nature of the Kingdom of God”. YES and worse, many abusive ‘pastors’ are those that preach most on ‘the kingdom’ (ie WoF)
Very true!!
Thank you for your servitude in bringing this video together. It’s much needed.
This is such an important topic! Thank you for sharing your perspective on this I learned a lot. Maybe you can also discuss at length the heart attitude believers need to maintain when trying to navigate these issues when they recognize these things in their own church leadership.
Mike, I have been so blessed by your ministry in this coronavirus season and I thank God for how He is using you to bless the body of Christ.
Yes please
Mike, this is really good. I know I have seen a couple of videos where much of the topic has been leadership. I wish I would have noted which ones. I know one was in 1 Peter. It would be really nice to have a playlist on the topic. I think you are speaking not just from scripture, but experiential wisdom. Human sin and even the way the enemy will tempt is common across the board and such a playlist would be really helpful for those who are asked to serve in positions for the first time. It might save people some heartache and hard lessons. Angela
Sometimes I wonder if I would have been better or worse off if I had grown up christian but less "churched" , I definately feel like I have been damaged by church culture and politics. Pastors have a profound ability to hurt church members.
Best show ever, word of God, brother Mike and cat all together ❣🤗
This brought me to tears. Everything you described is true. 😢
This really helps put Jesus's reason for being here. The real issues were Satan and for us to repent. Thank you for your deep explaining.
Great information, Mike! We recently left a church where the pastor was much like you describe here.
I'm so glad I listened to this! I'm just a stay at home mom of three littles and this is such a great teaching! Thank you! 😃
What? You are not “just” a stay at home mom. You have an amazing ministry to pour into your children all that The Lord has. You have a great calling. I wish I did better. God bless you. 💐💐
I know this is a while ago, but I think being a stay at home parent is the most respectable and important job one can have. And that’s from a college student pursuing a PhD.
Thank y'all so much for the kind words of encouragement! I'm often looked down on because I havent had a paying job in over 12 years and I'm only 32...I guess I started feeling a bit ashamed. My husband and three kids mean the world to me and I'll sacrifice the next 50 years as well, if thats Gods will. 😁 Thank yall again!
@@tabbyhamilton533 The people who look down on you are very prideful and have forgotten what is important in life. When people are on their deathbed, they never wish they spent more time in the office. They wish they spent more time with their family.
I agree, I'm beginning to see that more and more as my kids grow and I see the hand of God in their lives. I'm extremely blessed, no doubt about it. However I'm really happy not everyone looks at us stay at home moms with contempt or pity. Thank you so much!
Thank you for this stream. I learned so much and this gave context to my past experience with pastor abuse.
Jesus anticipated a many things! He is great!
Praise God for this lesson. I love the copious use of scripture. Well thought out and explained.
I've been in a church where the "leader" exhibited some or all of these negative characteristics. Very painful for everyone involved. Except for him. He was impenetrable as far as being confronted with his faults. But he certainly had everyone else's down pat.
One of the problems from the church members's side is many people go along to get along. People don't want the potential backlash of confrontation. No one wants to be alienated. Church becomes a social club where honesty is banished rather than a place where we speak the truth in love to each other (Ephesians 4:15). It used to be that the most well-known verse was John 3:16. Now it's Matthew 7:1. "YOU CAN'T JUDGE ME!! ONLY GOD CAN!!"
Or they don't see the church as a living body that can be infected and possibly die from such behaviors at the top. PEOPLE GO TO CHURCH RATHER THAN BEING THE CHURCH. Church is a place they go, a destination rather who they are. WE are the Church. At least we're supposed to be.
There's danger in leaving ministry to the "professionals," the ones with the titles, degrees, eloquence or charisma (translated: pride and arrogance). But in reality each believer is called by God to his royal priesthood not just a select, educated, bossy few.
The leadership/membership relationship is symbiotic. If the leadership leaves the people alone to their private SELF-interest seeking lives, the people leave the leaders alone, throw money in the offering basket and keep them up on a pedestal. Everybody wins! After all, they only have to put up with each other for a couple of hours each week. That's how spiritual disease spreads. And by it the many become defiled.
Love this teaching! I'm only a couple of years late going through this Mark series, but I'm finding it to be a wonderful supplement to my personal Bible study time.
This was really great wisdom! I have been in some situations both volunteer and paid staff where this has been very true, but I also just tried to take it in for my leadership. Instead of just pointing the finger at Pastors who have caused harm in my past. Thanks for all you do to help encourage fellow believers. I really enjoy the content you put out!
SO MUCH wisdom in this video, not just for spiritual leaders, but for ALL leaders.
A leader - ANY leader - is a SERVANT. PERIOD.
Otherwise you're just a "boss" and nobody likes a boss.
👍👍👍👍
This teaching has been so helpful, Mike. God bless you and keep you safe in Him.
Thank you for this Mike, as a leader its causing me to reflect on myself and the leaders that raised me up in the faith. I appreciate your heart in sharing those scriptures toward the end.
I'm sad. I been in a church my whole life from which leaders fought over authority. Even to the point where my best friend at the time used me and abused me at once for a place in ministry. My father was also treated similarly. I lost hope in the body for so long and still struggle to become incorporated. If I was honest. This really tested my faith. And if I'm honest being a early Christian at the time. I did fall away from christ for a long time
God bless you Mike. Praying for you that the good Lord keep you and bless you always
Thanks again Pastor mike. From portland, oregon.
Mike your little comments are Hilarious. I laugh every time. Love you
Thank you sir..well done .GOD IS SO WISE!!!!!
Great video. How do we, (if we are supposed to) to confront/share with a leader who is exhibiting signs of leader abuse, protecting their positional reputation? To me this lends itself with the bad habit/concept that its the leaders who only do the ministry, rather than equipping the lay people to be participants not simply fans in the bleachers.
Mentioning that ego affects all is enlightened and helps everyone to understand that no one should be put on a pedestal . The bible is the the true.
So good. Really good I didn’t see this live... nailed it for the church I just left and the one I grew up in.
What a great teaching... Thank you... You have blessed me today...
I am overwhelmed by love from your heart
Wow! This is truth! Jesus never ever said that He came to do His will. It was always the Fathers will!
Thanks for teaching it again! It’s appreciated. Love the kitty!
Thank you for this awesome teaching. I always find many things of value in your teaching and I am so glad that it is available world-wide on RUclips.
I used to be part of a congregation which had what seemed to be a very charismatic leader (not “charismatic” in the sense of “if it moves it must be the Holy Spirit” but having charisma). He was quite boastful and was always going on about his love of theology and how proud he was of his theological degree - it was as if he put this above his love for the Lord. OK, his preaching was often very good, but too often he would use the pulpit for self-promotion, and also for promoting some of his very unbiblical views, based more on what the world thinks about things than what the Bible says. I felt a real need to confront him on a number of occasions and it really pained me to do it - partly because being so charismatic he was able to manipulate any conversation to his own advantage and make one feel guilty for “challenging his authority” - in a subtle, veiled way he was actually quite a bully - and partly because I was afraid - it took courage to put myself in the firing line of someone who was extremely clever intellectually and who was able to manipulate a conversation to his own advantage before you knew what was happening. I found it was easier to set down my objections in the form of a letter, so that he did not distract my line of reasoning. Each time, I backed up every point I wanted to make with Scripture. This fell on deaf ears, and he simply responded by handing me huge wadges of articles written by men who agreed with him (all having a very liberal approach to Scripture) and by his own admission, he was of a “liberal” persuasion. I was far from being alone in the congregation for being concerned about this man, and one Sunday when he gave us a tirade from the pulpit, using it as a platform for promoting his very unbiblical views, I wrote the first of many letters. The following Sunday he was away, and a member of the congregation (one of the elders) took his place at the pulpit. This man was older, and such a dear, Godly man, full of humility and grace. Before he began to preach, he said, “Before I begin, let me say that I do not agree with everything that is spoken from this pulpit.” He didn’t make any accusations but let it rest at that. Most of the people there would not have had sufficient knowledge of the Scriptures to realise that what the pastor was promoting was wrong; they just thought it was one of the bees in his bonnet and left it at that. The other man did not undermine the pastor’s position but merely stated, to anyone who had ears to hear and a heart to understand, that he disagreed. We had a long conversation afterwards. I had been very upset by what had happened, and he was so encouraging and helpful.
I had so many issues with this pastor that in the end I was put in a position of unresolvable conflict with him and my only choice was to leave the church. Until I did that, I had not realised how much, and for how long, I had been robbed of my peace. I joined another church, which certainly isn’t perfect (what church is?!) but from the beginning it was like a healing balm to my soul. Church leaders like this can batter the spirits of their congregation and crush them.
So much of what you have shared in this talk resonated with me. I could well imagine this man replying as that bad leader did in your meeting. He had surrounded himself with a little circle of sycophants who never disagreed with him and reinforced him at every turn, and would call him “the boss” and we had to do what he said, if we ever had any complaints. Many people left that church, and many people remained, bruised and unhappy. I do not regret having attended because it taught me a great deal about leadership and about priorities, and also about courage, and how to confront things when they are wrong, and doing it in a humble and Biblical way.
It is very, very sad that there is so much of this sort of thing in the church. I think part of the problem is that the Protestant churches are often not quite as reformed as they think they are, and vestiges of old Roman Catholic thinking, particularly relating to authority, have carried through. Having one man as leader, the congregation expects him to be good at absolutely everything and then blames him when he is not, which is unrealistic and unfair. It also opens the door to abuse because “the man at the top” takes on more authority than he should. I have seen congregations where yes, there is a pastor, but his main gift is recognising the gifting in others, and people are allowed to grow and blossom in that gifting, and the whole congregation is blessed - every member becomes an organ in the body, performing as he is designed to do, and the whole body is united and reflects the heart of Jesus between its individual members, and to the wider community and the world.
I think many of these bullying leaders who abuse their position and their congregation are deeply insecure, and always trying to prove themselves. When kids are bullied at school, they are always told that bullies are cowards, and this doesn’t cease when the bullies grow up. Just my opinion anyway!
I'm amazed at the audacity of prosperity preachers in they HAVE to know they are falsely teaching, for their own financial gain, and have to know they will be judged for it.
I love Cold Case Christianity!!!! One of my favorite books 😍
Hi Mike, I had a question during live chat but I will ask again if missed.
What do we do with 1 Timothy 2:12 Women not speaking in church? How do we as women challenge our, or anyone's Pastor or Minister about his "Issues" what ever they may be, if we are not to speak. Do we leave it up to the men to address the concerns? Don't we as the Body have a role in Edifying one another? Thanks for the video.
vicky martin
Greetings in the Name of Jesus Christ.
Hi Vicky. May I share with you from scripture some thoughts on this topic or did you want to wait to discuss with Pastor Mike?
@@breathofgodministries3955 Would be Happy for you to share.
It's about preaching.
I think in addition churches have councils of elders.
vicky martin
May the Lord guide us in the reading of his word.
I would like to preface this by saying two things. That Men and Women are equal in Gods eyes inside the Body of Christ as it’s says in scripture: “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Galatians 3:27-28 KJV
They do however have different roles. Through out all creation even from the beginning in the book genesis you can see a natural order in Adam being created and then Eve being created from Adam.
1st Timothy 2:12 is a scripture than can easily be abused by both men and women. If we are reading the scriptures in these two understandings that Paul as an Apostle operates in an Apostolic state, speaking on with authority of Christ and hears from God as well. Granting him authority from Christ and is able to write and create doctrine. Under the other understanding that all scripture breathed by God as it says: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
If we read now 1st Timothy 2:12 with these understandings, we can see God’s perfects order that already exists in His creation. Some of the popular arguments that I have heard from people is that this was a different time. Another is where not all part of scripture is relevant today. Another where the same Paul that wrote this has women in his ministry ect... The Bible’s itself says and debunks what most Christians make claims to: “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.”
Hebrews 13:8-9 KJV
God doesn’t change and is is consistent. Also recognizing that the women in Paul’s ministry operated not on there own accord but under Paul’s instructions when being sent out.
So with getting back to 1st Timothy 2:12 There are a few key take aways. Women not being suffered to teach, not having dominion over a man and also realizing that this is within the Body of Christ, the Church, The assembly of the Body in the House of God. It’s a guideline of how to be when the word is actually being taught. There for if not inside the House of God it’s assumed these rules may not apply as the do during teaching in the church as long as we operating still within the scriptures perimeters and using biblical wisdom as a man or woman of God. A Key thing is not having authority over a man. Leadership roles by nature of Gods divine order is gender specific. Within the body of Christ no one is above the other in rank just different parts that function to do different things inside One Body. For the teaching of Gods word over both men and women it’s is for a man to do. I woman can teach other woman though and also all Christians both men and woman are to share to the Good news of the Gospel that Christ came, died and rose again that all that believe in will not perish but have everlasting life. This is not teaching this is more prophesying the Gospel to all that will listen which is the most important even though for more Christians it’s looked upon As the least. Thinking usually that the only way they can be used in Ministry is to preach but there are so many roles that are all equally important. Also seeing that the guidelines Paul is laying out is within the Church of Christ but outside of that you may be able to operate with grace to share to an unbeliever that’s a man or a woman. That’s still not teaching that us following Jesus Christs command to go into all the world and share the Gospel. Because that’s not teaching your just testifying of the Goodnews! Which is something lacking not so much in the Body of Christ but inside Christianity. That word of going out beyond the 4 walls of a sanctuary into the high ways and by ways. This is a mandate unto all Christians.
Also Men and Women have things in there Christian walks that will test there obedience to see if they will listen to pride and ego or actually follow Christ. For example in scripture it says: “Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.”
James 3:1 NIV
Some many are not called to teach but they bring it upon themselves for various personal reasons and hence for the most part teach it in error. Not actually called by God to do it. Then on the flip side I know women that know the Bible better than most men but as act of humility and obedience to God they don’t teach or become pastors. Even though inside ourself we know we can do something it doesn’t mean we should do it. There are many things we ability to do but but one has to choose rather to follow Gods voice and instruction rather than your own egos desires. My mother was a great example of this. Even though knowing the word never took on the role of a Pastor because she was born again and truly loved Jesus. If you love Jesus and are his sheep you are going to not only hear his voice but follow him too.
There are examples of women teaching other woman in scripture and it’s something that is extremely needed in the Body of Christ. Most often our human nature’s always want to override Gods instructions and also His divine order within His creation. What usually happens is we want to do something and regardless of what scriptures says we are going to do what we want any ways. This is pride at its worse coming from either gay pride, feminism or just down right disobedient men and women. The scriptures test us in many ways and one of them is obedience and humility. A few examples of what has been birthed from our rebellious nature against God’s written word is that of false teachers, women pastors and LGBTQ Pastors ect... All presenting a solid case on why they are a Pastor and fighting tooth and nail to prove that even though it goes against scripture it’s what they are supposed be doing.
There many roles in Jesus Christ’s ministry for both men and women. It’s just important to always stand firm on the word of God and trust it. We have to alway keep in the frame work of our minds that there is a nature in our flesh that naturally always want to rebel against God. Both the saved and the unsaved are like this. But for the saved We have the Holy Ghost that will minister to us as and teach us the wisdom of God through his word. We choose to crucify the flesh and pick up our cross and follow Jesus. One first has to be born again before they can get this wisdom of God inside his word. Without being born again the things of the Bible become overwhelming and make no sense. As you stick with it and grow in your faith you see God in it, you see the Son all over it and you see the Holy Ghost minister to the heart, soul abs mind of the born again believer in Christ.
One day in My Christian walk I made a solid decision that I was going to stand and follow all of scripture no matter how uncomfortable it made me. Since that decision it has helped me in my walk. I no longer I have to rely on my human cleverness to explain the Bible to anyone. I just let it speak for itself without us over complicating it with our human nature that scriptures says is shaped in sin and iniquity in the book of psalms. Now all I have to do is follow Jesus Christ, His words and teachings. Believe upon him and him alone for my salvation. That has removed the complexity of me trying to reason it out to make it sound a certain way to the listener or person I am speaking to. It just is what it is. God is just “I AM”.
God says in scripture that his ways are not like our ways many places one saying this:
“These things you have done and I kept silence; You thought that I was just like you; I will reprove you and state the case in order before your eyes.”
Psalms 50:21 NASB
One of the things that we humans do is project our own thinking upon God and he says that’s a mistake.
I pray that made sense as sometimes my talking is a little better understood than my writing. All praises to King Jesus. 👑
❤️🕊✝️
God is good.
Amazing and informative content as always. Thanks for covering this oft-neglected segment of teaching ❤️
Who is Satan ? Why Jesus on right or left..Ficticious name is the right father, in all Caps...on your name..
Forget it we go to FEMA and killed. Good night.
JoAnn Thomases Your comment is not entirely clear but Satan is the adversary or enemy and he is defeated. A created being whose first sin was pride against YHWH - God.
Totally agreed on the abuse issue i have been there. It helps having your phone recording. Plus being prepared with the right scriptures. I had to leave the Pastor was totally blind to the problem but he was not upset. He was willing to stay with his mess and keep his job.
This was fantastic!!! Thank you sir!!!
Bless you Mike.
Thank you Pastor,
I never thought of the 2 sinners who hung with Jesus as being those at his left and right. I would have to agree with that though, since Jesus is at the right hand of God in heaven. I always wondered how one would be on his left. Plus he was speaking of the cup (suffering) and baptism (death).
I love going through these verse by verse studies! Thanks for each one.
Our deacon was recently asked to preach because the pastor was tired. We were treated to a long sermon about the pastor being tired, and how the congregation wasn't doing enough to support him. I've noticed that the deacon continually places himself subservient to the pastor, saying the God deals harshly with him if he ever denies the pastor.
This has been bugging me, and now I'm beginning to see why, because our pastor did nothing to correct the "God-pastor-congregation" chain that the deacon was teaching. It is to the point that the deacon said at a revival that if the pastor told him to jump off a bridge, he would, without question. His reason is that there might be a list person at the bridge, and that God would stop him if that was the case.
Some pastors are on a “mission from God”, often from sketchy personal revelation and they approach ministry as a methodology to follow their “mission” at the expense of servanthood. A culture of “honor” can be a disguise for maintaining power at the expense of servanthood.
Hi Pastor Mike, I was born again recently, this is also due to a friend of mine which was in a ministry called Christ Embassy. A few weeks in I realised I did not align with their practices (overuse of tongues on command, blowing on people who fell backwards) furthermore there are a few scandals around the main pastor.... I explained this to them and told them I was leaving, I am alone here where I live as I am a student and did not feel comfortable going to this meeting as at the beginning the pastor did not even answer me, he sent 2 sisters to try to understand what had happened in indirect way. Growing tiered of this I called one of them and exposed by findings and said that due to this I would be leaving this particular ministry, I truly feel it was my conscience (the Holy Spirit I might say) that told me to be ware and take some distance. This initiated 3 days of messages pushing me for one more in person meeting, just because of the pressure, I felt that I really did not want to do this ....so I said I was available for a zoom, but not comfortable in person. In the end I think “as a last straw” he called me, and I explained to him. He started saying he didn’t want to convince me but that I couldn’t JUST LEAVE because as a pastor on judgment day, he will be accountable for me. This terrified me of course, I asked him if he was saying that I would be damned because of his judgment, he answered no, and that this was not a Christian question...ok. So he then goes on to saying that “if you come and speak to me, with what I will tell you, I Assure you that you will want to stay”, I really had to hold strong.... and say.... no....he repeated this same thing a couple times. It’s a Pentecostal/prosperity type church....I cannot say they don’t have Jesus as their centre....but something had gone wrong in my view top down. Please can you give me some insight on why he was so troubles by me leaving his “flock”? He also compared himself to the “mother and the child” and that mother is best fit to make her child grow....I said it depends on the mother but in a perfect world....yes. I mean..... you get the jist..... please help. 🙏❤️
Listen to those feelings. Find a new church, none of what you said that's happening is good or right.
I'm currently studying Acts, and what I was amazed was that when the apostles wanted to select ministers for the Greek speaking widows, they set up 3 criteria. I believe that this is what I would also look for if I was looking for anyone to be in ministry. The 3 are:
1. Of good repute, in other words have a good name in the congregation.
2. Be full of the Holy Spirit
3. Be full of wisdom.
I think their mom asked and they asked. I think she opened the way asking first and then they asked afterwards as they were right their with her.
Most informative presentation so far.
Cool, as someone newer to the bible here, I always felt that learning how to lead with humility is an implicit challenge that all pastors have to face at some point. It's nice to see that it's mentioned explicitly here.
That is great stuff. I think we as people vacillate between how we act. That is something we must keep after.
There is a difference between talking yo the faithful & a non-believer though. Often I will just point out a logical issue to the person in their thinking. You can say someone understood a thing, but people don't care unless they already accept the text. Still, if it is obvious in the text, the question is answered.
Many times people will give a wooden reading to those statements from Jesus about getting whatever you ask for. Sometimes this is hope, but often it is just desire of gain. Prosperity preachers fall in here.
Still, no master violates his own will to give you a thing just because you follow him. This immature mentality that the mountains move on your command is just empty. You are forgetting the reason that promise was made & its context.
If you are serving God's will, you should expect he will help. Still, often you are relying on a person who is tapped to step up. So keep at the prayer so they feel the need or you get the direction to ask.
Don't give up in prayer to any good end, but I don't think God wants everyone to win the lottery. Keep it honest. This should be common sense, but it us rarely common.
If my so called leaders are out of line it takes me a while but if they do not get in line i will correct them and if they do not i will leave.
The examples for ministry are universal for all of us regardless of circumstance. Laying down the glories of power, the flesh and money. Interesting that Billy Graham mentioned this too!
Testimony;...I was at a church service once and I was called up to be prayed for, I was told to sit in a chair & extend my legs, they prayed for me & said my legs were growing and a huge show ensued, I was told that my entire life I walked with a limp and my leg had grown in front of everyone's eyes....it was all a lie because my legs were always just fine except for my flat feet which DIDNT get healed....having gone through this experience I will not allow ANYBODY to lay hands on me ever again unless I feel guided to by the spirit of God & I ask for it.....
I happened to be reading 1 Peter after watching this and 1 Peter ch 5 seems to speak directly to the point, as well. Especially v 1-3
This was helpful
Much appreciated 😊
Thanks Mike
Humility the glory of the creature!
It's not about "you". 1:02:00
That's importante to remember, we defend the "vision" so much that we end up in allegence with our Church rather that The Word of God.
My ex father in law was a Methodist pastor and was EVERYTHING you mentioned a pastor SHOULDN'T be. I tried writing him letters in private and he would immediately share them with my wife. In letters of my asking for reconciliation he would respond that whatever I did was worse and that he and his wife wouldn't soon forgive me .
Mind you I was a virgin when I met his daughter and never drank, smoked etc and was an acolyte at church and love God. Whatever I "did" was fabricated in his mind.
He would lie to my wife and say that I was tricking her and that anything nice I did for her was because I wanted sex.
It's sad.
He and his family have blacklisted me despite many attempts on my end to share my sons life via texts/photos and public Facebook posts I know they can see.
I continually pray for the man and his wife (who is complicit in his actions) and I just don't know what to do for the sake of my son. My son sees how much I love people and that I pray for his mother and grandparents but that THEY want nothing to do with me or refuse to invite me to holidays etc. They continue to support my wife leaving our family and causing the hurt that our son now has to face by being torn between a father that still loves his mother and a mother, and her family, that would rather his dad were dead :(
Im torn between absolute disgust at their behavior (especially his being a pastor and knowing better) but I also feel sad for them and would much rather they got saved and turned to Jesus 😀
“The enemy isn’t Rome it’s Satan
The problem wasn’t Rome it’s SIN.” 👏🏾
G O L D
This Mark series has helped me grow tremendously. Thank you Mark, I mean Mike haha Jkjk (I know it’s Mike)!
Pastor worship is rampant in American churches. Many pastors don't come to serve. They come to be served and worshipped. Many are narcissists that don't want to get over themselves. They sure love all that power, authority, and being the center of peoples' attention and adoration.
Thank you!!
Thank you - This is so needed in the body. I do have two questions.
I will sum up your description of "bad leadership" with the phrase "the business model" for the sake of asking my questions. Also, my own testimony to set the context for questions: I spent 10 years serving and trying to just look to Jesus resiting acting in ways you described but found the gatekeepers if you will unwilling to help. Help find opportunities even at other churches in the network they did not want to lose volunteer promote inside due to self-protection. I am out of the situation but worried about many in that place of being misused.
1.) "What if the business model of leadership is already fully integrated into the church's culture and people who serve the right way are often misused in their willingness to follow Jesus and just serve. It seems you would say "just take it like Jesus would take it and serve anyway" and I can see how you should but is there a point when you have to say enough is enough. (there are whole teachings of getting and keeping volunteers that promote this) making false promises, verbal encouragement (vain compliments), etc.. 2.) It seems to me that this business model is the norm and if the norm then unless you play the game you not going anywhere (which I know is not ethical or an option). The larger the church the easier it is to have this mentality. Because there is an excess of eager bodies it becomes a meat grinder of throwing people away for there is always somebody to replace them. Sadly this whole model itself habituates practices that promote vices of the kind you spoke and I see no way for it to change. For the vices, all hinge on self-protection. How do you think things will change if ever? Anyway, thanks again - It gave me hope.
Thank you.
Mike, I know you feel strongly about Christians belonging or attending church but I have yet to find a church home in my many years of Christian walk. I am thankful for the internet and ability to find good teaching and some small interaction with like minded believers. I remember you having videos and/or answering questions on being part of a church group. I realize I need to look within and adjust expectations to a point, but still find issue with the abundance of un-Christian or faulty Christian actions and values going on in churches. I probably have not searched hard enough but the disappointment is discouraging. Last year after several visits to a new church I thought I found it until I suddenly realized every single female was in a dress. I asked and was told "we don't judge but hope the Holy Spirit will convict you" 😒 Next. Edit: Is that right or wrong of me to move on, if I do not believe pants made and designed for females is NOT wearing male attire? It seems to me that the churches who believe that forgetting that the males who wrote that passage were wearing robes. It's crazy to me that people use modern clothes design -ex: dresses for women that accentuate women's legs, make them more vulnerable and even flirtatious as a sign of piety, while a conservatively dressed female in pants is considered "less than".
Thanks Mike. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
The pastor of the fellowship i attended said that somebody described him as a CEO and he took pride in that
Paul never wanted to use the word "pastor" as a title but as a metaphor. the misinterpretation of titles and offices began in the 5th century till today.
IN HEB.13.7 IT SAYS: ποιμένας (HEGOUMENON): ARE CONDUCTED; IT DOES NOT SAY ποιμένας (POIMENAS): PASTORS.
In the following block of passages the word gr. poimenas (shepherds) and bishops does not appear.
- ἐπισκοπῆς (episcopes). To care for others, to supervise. 1 Tim.3.1
- τὸν τὸν (he who cares), he who supervises, 1 Tim.3.2
- καλῶς καλῶς(kalós pristamenon) well directed, well cared for. 1.Tim.3.4
- προστῆναι (prostenai) cares, directs 1. Tim.3.5
- ἐπιμελήσεται (epimelésetai) will take care? 1. Tim.3.5
- ἡγουμένων (egoménon). Leads, directs.Heb.13.7
- Πρεσβυτέρῳ (presbyter) old man, older brother, 1. Tim.5.1
- προεστῶτες (protesters) lead, care πρεσβύτεροι (presbyteroi) elder, 1Tim.5.17
- πρεσβυτέρους (presbíteros) elders Titus 1.5
- Πρεσβύτας (presbutas) elders Titus 2.2
- And when they had appointed them - πρεσβυτέρους (presbyters) elders - by vote in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed. Acts 14.23. The context shows that they were not strangers or outsiders hatched from the seminary or from a superior directive that imposed a style of government on them, but that the sheep were held up as an example from among the flock in the care of others, and that honor was given to the one who deserved it by what he was already doing to encourage him to continue in his theology of giving, as simple as that.
1 Tim. 5:17-20
This begging from Paul probably inspired this problem. 🤔
I rather call them "Referees".
@Lon Spector I've not read this book but I'm intrigued. I am with you on the monstrosity of the "modern church"
loTRUTHve to all of you brothers, let me ask. Is it not curious how in the present, the closer you get to God and His Word, the less you are attracted to what we call “The Church”. It should be just “a people”, not an institution.
The Lord will humble me when i start thinking that “i am in charge”. Our suffering will teach us, and God will make sure we understand He is the Boss. Romans 12:1 is a very needful thought/prayer/choice BEFORE Romans 12:2. It’s very humbling. “Thy will be done.” “Covetousness” can often be our expectation to have our prayer answered, “our way”. “We must go through many hardships before we enter the Kingdom of God.” Acts 14:22b We are all learning…we are all at different growth places. Women can be a help to men in this way.
What would be the Biblical stance on escaping from narcissistic families?
I don't know if I'm breaking the commandment to honour my parents by cutting them out of my life. Both are unreasonable and abusive, and I had to involve the police to untangle them from my finances. When I escaped they then attempted to portray me as a psychopath to extended family, even telling them they feared I was a serial rapist, and a murderer. They even went so far as to gather up items I'd abandoned in their home and declare that I was a 'far right terrorist' because I owned camping equipment and items related to historical reenactment.
My grandma bought their story, as did my brothers, and sisters. They now tell everyone who will listen that I've gone insane and am now hooked on heroin and cocaine, and being controlled by cultists on the internet. (Ironic, as they put on a public persona of being Mormon and all are prescribed psych meds.)
Am I supposed to open myself up to these evil people, or is the absence of revenge honour enough for their sort?
A muslim friend told me that Abraham was chastised by God for praying for his father who was evil, but I don't know if that is Scripture, or Islam.
What you say about falsely protecting pastors really applied to Ravi Zacariah's ministry.
Very good
Cat cam! 🐈 🎥 hehe 🙂.
Christian Bible Study Cat Scam 🤣
I have no idea if you read comments but....
Thank you so much for this teaching. It is confirming a lot of the things my husband and I have been praying about for the past few years after leaving from under some unhealthy church leadership. One thing that I have really been trying to figure out and have seriously been praying about is, how are we actually supposed to do when under a leader like this? I spent so long praying for them (it was pretty much word for word the last 30 minutes of your video) and for me (to know what to do and to remain humble and not to become bitter) but I am still unsure how I should have handled it...
Do you confront it in a loving way?
Do you speak to church leadership about it?
Do you simply need to leave that church if it is clear that this behavior is not going to change (and they are even training others to be exactly like them in all of this unbiblical disfunction)?
I wrestle so much with if my prayers were enough... not because God isn’t enough but because others have been abused and have left the church (some are hurt but are healing but others have literally left the church as a whole and it’s utterly heartbreaking).
In trying to respect my pastor’s leadership and honor them as people am I simply enabling them to continue? Is that further abuse they inflicted on others partially my fault because I didn’t know to do anything different?
I would really love to hear some biblical perspective on how we should walk this out and respond to those leaders where it is 100% obvious they are abusing/manipulating/controlling their congregation consistently (for years)....
I have now had so many conversations with other church leaders that have dealt with this too and we are all in this same “bewildered” boat of not quite knowing how to handle this...
Thank you again for all you are doing for the body of Christ. Your videos are always spot in and encouraging!
This is real and happening. Waiting for an answer with this. 🙏🏻
At around 40:44, you mention Matthew as a witness of these things, so he has more details, but Mark is an account of Peter's eye witness testimony. So, are you suggesting that Matthew witnessed this aspect of it and Peter did not?