I find it troubling that the A.I. described Shaun's kidnapping from the vault as a "rescue" without even acknowledging that the so-called 'rescuers' murdered Shaun's mother in cold blood while affecting their 'rescue'.
Things that had me laughing: •The institute "Rescued" Shaun •Drake called the Ai out on a bias for synths due to it being synthetic, and it fired right back that you have a bias against synths due to being an organic •Drake and the AI go on for about 3 minutes essentially saying: "Stop copying me!" •The Ai's snarky sarcasm at the end
Literally, the only component that’s not biological in a Synth is the brain chip, and those cease to be functional at all, when the Institute gets nuked, which is three out of four endings. When you destroy the Institute, for all intents and purposes, Synths become identical to humans, in every way, except the brain ship, which doesn’t even matter at that point
I always saw gen 3 synths as manufactured clones with control chips. As opposed to the advanced robots that gen 2s are. Which makes the railroad's mind wipes even more morally questionable.
I agree. There are many lines being crossed that demand we change the definitions we use in order to describe our own status as sentient life-forms so that the way we discuss the way Synths and Humans are related can be as accurate and relevant to the present moment as possible.
They're not even clones they're basically test tube Babies, they're made out of sean's genetics in the same way that he's made out of the players genetics
I'm admittedly pretty early into the game, but the general notion to me seems to be that later generation synths can very much be considered people. Especially considering that, in the end, humans are also biological machines, albeit evolved ones. I also remember Harkness from Fallout 3 and his entire quest-line. You may have a point about first generation synths (I haven't encountered any that weren't immediately hostile as yet), but later generations are certainly not just tools or robots.
I'm not being mean when I say this but you can semantics the argument all you want to. Call an apple an orange but that doesn't make it an apple. Synths are just that Synths. Machines. Not Humans. A human for better or worse can't just have some 0's and 1's changed and completely change their personality thoughts feelings etc.
@@hughmann9568 When gagaplex says "can be very much considered people", I presume he is talking about the consciousness that Synth experiences to be identical (or very similar) to that of a regular human. In this regard, do you think their consciousness ought be given less weight simply because they are not human? That seems a little strange to me, we view ourselves as unique right now because there aren't any other animals with the same level of intelligence as ourselves, but I don't see why, if one were to come along, that we should treat it differently. Put simply, you can say that consciousness is what's being defended, not simply being a human. A human with no consciousness (brain death) is still considered by most people dead even if you could technically keep the rest of its body alive for many years to come. With this framework, your argument doesn't really make sense, "Call an apple an orange but that doesn't make it an apple". No one is saying that, what people are saying is that Synths have traits that humans have that make both uniquely worth defending.
@@hughmann9568 synths are not programmed with 1s and 0s. Their "wires" are neurons, the same ones as in any other human. It's more like lobotomy rather than programming, their brains are built to include desired behavior but can build neural pathways on it's own. It's essentially build-a-bear human.
The strengths and weaknesses of the Minutemen and Brotherhood are basically the opposites of each other. That's why I like the idea of them working together for the common good. They are the only two that are out improving the Commonwealth at large, after all. The Institute wants to close themselves off to the world, and wait for it to die, while also dismantling any attempt for the people to unify themselves. The railroad, mainly Desdemona, only cares about synths. If you're not a synth, and don't want a population of them living loose on the surface, the Railroad isn't your ally. It is funny when you're debating an A.I. over whether or not machines should be treated as more than tools. Personally I'd err on the side of treating them well, whether they're tools or not, but I don't believe they're equivalent to Humans. They don't grow, don't age, don't need food or drink, and can be turned off with a code word. They just look and act very Human-like. I would treat robots and synths as well as anyone or anything else out there. I treat my truck and dog well in the real world. There is a gray area between how the Railroad treats synths, and how the Institute does. In the short term, the Brotherhood can go around slaughtering all the Commonwealth's enemies, and taking food and water in exchange is the least anyone can do for them. In the long term, the Minutemen would be better, because it means the people of the Commonwealth can learn to handle their own problems from then on.
The problem is that it's not a debate of whether or not robots or people because Generation 3 synthetics Are not robots they're Closer to clones They're made out of flesh and blood and are nearly Identical to humans The only major difference being a chip in their neck It's not a Gray area they are Quite obviously, as mentally aware As any average human
God this so awesome. I swear I see this conversation in my mind clear as day, down to when you would lean in and raise your voice in defense of your point.
I do disagree that synths cannot think independently and develop emotions, precisely because of what the decisions and wants they have. Especially if they have their minds wiped, they can go decide to do whatever they want and examples show that they choose vastly different outcomes, some becoming raiders while others just live peacefully. Showing they develop their own wants and needs. No programming telling them what to do. Rather than machines they are more akin to clones with 1 machine part ordering them to obey. Do you consider the clones from Star Wars as not sentient?
You are arguing that Human clones and a toaster in lambskin are the same thing. No they are not. Synths don't have the same motives needs or drives as humans/clone troopers. The clones and Synths do share a common danger to Humanity in their ability to be manipulated and controlled. Not that humans can't. It takes more than a simple phrase or changing some 0's and 1's. Being Sentient does magically make you all important or flawless. Plenty of objectively bad people are Sentient. So let's fuck around with a technology 5 people in the world truly understand. Seems like a huge risk.
@@hughmann9568 You sure are stupid. It is explicitly stated multiple times that the only difference between a scent and a human is the simple component, That allows easy brainwashing in their neck
That's the thing since they're actually made entirely out of biological components aside from the one component that's within their brain. Which is the synth part the synth component that you find after you kill them. And they state that that's the only way they can tell someone is a synth is after they are killed and they find that component. These are not toasters with skin, these are essentially artificially created biological entities. They bleed. They just can't reproduce and due to the means in which they are made they no longer require sustenance or sleep. These are interesting attributes that they share with their mechanical counterparts such as the gen 1 and Gen 2 as well as the Mr Handy's, assaultrons, etc. Good question here is Where do the robo brains fall in to? It's obvious that these things were human as they have and are operated by human brains even though they are brains of psychopaths and have been driven insane by their longevity. That would make them actually cyborgs. But due to the alterations that are made to them are they really sentient because they can be programmed to do what you want? That is to say we are looking at what could possibly be a sort of Uno reverse situation.
@@hughmann9568 so should we kill all humanity because they’re not perfect? Generation 3 Synths are identical to humans in every way but their Brain Chips, and if you eliminate the Institute (3 out of 4 endings), those brain chips completely cease to be functional at all forever. Gen 3 Synths actually have a better argument for sentience than clones do, although Clones are still absolutely sentient
Okay you just got a fleshbag slap. I laughed because you both accused one another of bias based on the physical state of your being IE flesh vs circuitry.
DAT RESPONSE AT THE END LoL! You tried to talk shit on his broad analysis and ranking, and the AI turned around served you real proper like. He called you out on your organic bias (claiming that organics can achieve sentience, but machines cannot, despite lacking a specific and commonly accepted definition of sentience. We as a species have yet to fully grasp the process by which we go from a lump of self-replicating protiens to a truly effective life-form posessing agency, morality, and an understanding of our place in the universe. It's difficult to say that an artificial life wouldn't be able to fulfill the requirements of Mazlo's pyramid to achieve self-actualization without truly posessing a complete understanding of how we as organics have done the same.
The reason we've failed to prove our own sentience is due in part to our inability to prove the existence of choice, a necessary component of sentience. There as yet exists no way to determine whether human actions are the result of external stimuli being processed by complicated heuristics we've developed over in brains, or the idea that our inner voice or some aspect of our conscious persona is somehow responsible for the actions we take. Even assuming the second option is correct, we then lack an explanation for how we'd actually be implementing these decisions we make since the stimuli our actions are responding to definitionally exist in the past outside of ability effect. If you accept a model of action and reaction wherein we simply integrate the results of our processing stimuli by memory recall, then you are essentially giving a tacit admission that human beings are no more than organic machines. If that's the case, then what is it about our organic nature, being constructed of carbon, water, and protien, that makes us so special as to be capable of "thinking" in ways that a machine, by definition, never can?
Minutemen: Have lived and served in Commonwealth their entire lives, uniquely intimate with both people and environment and challenges they pose. People of Commonwealth are not foreigners to them, but fathers, mothers and sons and daughters. Only movent that has spontaneously sprung from within general post-war populace. Brotherhood of Steel: Arrived yesterday with Hindenburg 2.0 and already started strongarming locals and demanding tribute. Locals are peasants that have to be subjugated under techno-feudal rule like how Teutonic Knights established themselves among foreign Baltic pagans. Institute: Kidnaps and experiments on Commonwealth citizens, surface dwellers are data at best and lab rats at worst to them. Have distanced themselves from locals so much that they could as well be guinea pigs for Institute's sadism. Railroad: Not interested in civilization building but just opposing the Institute. Are generally neutral toward locals and only interested in furthering Synth cause. Minutemen is the only faction that generally has goodwill and support of locals. Institute and Brotherhood either seek to subvert locals or subjugate them. And Railroad is not interested. Minutemen could very well be seed for another NCR.
Do you actually believe the things you said in this video about synths? Or were you just trying to hold a point that would warrant an argument with the AI?
Love these vids! It’s neat to see how the the AI trys to debate. I’m surprised that the AI didn’t push on the fact that the only thing needed to “destroy” the BoS in game is destroy one target. Like it knew that the Prydwen is a weakness but decided to just copy and flip arguments after that. At least there was not advocating that slavery is ok in this one lol 😂
I find it kind of funny how the ai just broke at the end and started using your arguments with slight alterations and then accused you of doing the same 😂
I don’t understand how anyone could consider synths as “robots” when the only way to “program” a synth is to wipe its memory and compell desired behavior through intimidation. That’s exactly how a government would control human beings in the future in a dystopian novel. Even if you don’t agree that they are humans, they certainly aren’t robots, and forcing them to do labor is not a simple task without moral dilemma. There is zero question that they are sentient beings, and forcing sentient beings to do what you want through intimidation or violence is slavery, whether human or otherwise.
They are robots by definition. They have been shown to be programmable time and time again. Some break that sure. So the thing keeping these Synths for becoming human-like (good or bad) is now gone. So now we have another group of intelligent possible hostile individuals who don't share common needs or goals with us. Seems like a huge risk for some toasters. You have sympathy for machines that's fine but don't let's your emotions cloud your judgement. They are machines robots whatever you wanna call them You are fighting the dictionary at this point. Sentient beings that can be controlled or programmed in a much easier and faster way. Granted their are like 5 people who could do it. That makes them a threat not an ally. Idk where you got this "not programmable" part from when we see hear and read it..
I personally see a lot of potential in a alliance between mm, bos, and rr. Mm have the logistics and popular support. Bos have the officers and training. While rr is one with genuine situational awareness through their spys. If united they would be nigh unstoppable.
I get the vibe that this show was already written and then Melissa dropped out and so they panicked and came up with a filler season to try and hold of the story that was written until Carol joins the show. That will probably be the starting point of the plot. I don't know know though just a thought
I would like to point out that the Brotherhood would not be able to hold stability in the Commonwealth once the main force has moved on. The Minutemen are a local governing and military force that will remain. The wiser decision is for the Brotherhood to assist the local governing body with training propping it up instead of leaving and creating a power vacuum once they finally leave. The Prydwin is a mobile base of operations and even if a local garrison is left behind once the Prydwin leaves, the Brotherhood will find it difficult to maintain their intenal stability locally much the same way as the other chapters began to experience their own schisms, such as with Elder Lyons. This problem will be exacerbated by their attitudes towards the local population as well as the eminent domain of settlements and extortion of supplies. Those settlers did not request the brotherhood to come and protect the area, it is nice that they did, but they are not entitled to the fruits of the settlers' labors because of their unsolicited actions.
I see the Institute as the only faction that offers the Commonwealth much of a future. The Railroad's goals are self-defeating. Once they take the Institute, they destroy it, and the technology to make new synths, dooming them to eventual extinction. For all their talk of liberation, even Desdemona is a short-sighted fanatic, reacting to her gut-instinct without consideration to the future of either the Commonwealth, or the synths she professes to be freeing. That there are even crazier members, who seem to want to extend their quest to non-sentient robots or basic machinery suggests the faction is only going to become more eccentric and full of crackpots. While some of them could turn their skills with technology to constructive uses, they've already decided to use them for destruction. By far the worst choice. The Brotherhood of Steel's one redeeming quality is that they certainly have the organization and firepower to protect the Commonwealth from danger. The problem is that they never do things like this out of altruism. John Maxson was the last good Elder, and Arthur is a pale shadow of his greater forefather. He's a compromise between Lyon's Chapter, who were weary of administering humanitarian aid and protection for the Capital Wasteland, and the Outcasts who are simply hostile to such notions and abandon everyone not of their kind to their fate. Once the Institute are gone, the Brotherhood will tire of the Commonwealth, and find some other crusade. Leaving the people defenseless to the Gunners, raiders, super mutants and more. If they do settle in, it won't turn into an equitable relation. They very likely attacked Rivet City to obtain their fusion reactor for the Prydhwen, because their mentality is still that they're entitled to every piece of technology, and can take it from outsiders by force. The best they can do for the people is a new form of serfdom, where the wastelanders hand over their crops to them, or be abandoned to the first band of raiders or mutated animals to happen by. The Minutemen can be a genuine force for good if they're brought back into proper shape. Their lack of hierarchical stability prevents them from turning into an oppressive regime, even though it can just as easily undermine the good they do for the Commonwealth. But even when they wane, the need for common defense will always exist until a more permanent government for the Commonwealth can be formed. And the Minutemen do have the potential to be that government's military arm. It would take a visionary to unite the Commonwealth, but if it succeeds in establishing such a government which can represent the many communities, they would flourish. Their lack of technological expertise is the only downside. The Institute however, has all that. They are organized as a technocracy, ensuring competent leadership, if not representative. And their army is composed of expendable, yet effective synths. Their teleportation technology grants them unprecedented mobility and surprise when on the offensive. And the small but dangerous coursers are able to employ more lateral thinking to problems that cannot be solved with brute force. Their technology on agriculture, cloning, medicine, synths and more could be of great benefit to the surface world, even if only released on a selective basis. Their tendency to view the wasteland as their enemy, and resultant need to control it to the detriment of its inhabitants is their only vice, and one the player character could be in a position to solve. Their use of first generation synths as "ambassadors" to the Commonwealth in their ending suggest that they do on some level want to establish control. And if this can be directed towards terminating raiders and hostile mutants, that would be a good thing. The surfacers would gain protection, and could trade the materials the Institute needs to expand their operations. Ideally, it would build trust to a level were a second, more genuine effort for a Commonwealth Provisional Government could be attempted. If the Minutemen can be incorporated into this new arrangement, all the better. The only thing that the Institute has to give up is their tendency to use synths to replace wastelanders.
I am torn between Minutemen and Brotherhood. Brotherhood is better equipped for this task, have good structure of command and power. Main problem i have with them is Maxson. I am more fan of Elder Lyons and his views. Maxson changed a lot in Brotherhood and personally i don´t like him as a person. Minutemen have good idea, maybe bit naive, but they think about people. They are not that strong but still stands. What they need is good leader and to change a bit.
Is fun fact the minute man Start off as the week is, but have the most potential If you play right, you can literally take over the commonwealth The brotherer hood on the other hand has a habit of Stagnating
Which is why I like to use a mod that allows Danse to be elder by dueling Maxson. Danse being close friends with the general of the minutemen would make for a solid alliance.
The main issue with the brotherhood is longevity of their ability to act within the Commonwealth. They are a very good short-term solution come in take down several larger threats, however they are not able to maintain their ability to act when they have to move on. They may have to go back to DC or decide to liberate New York City. These are all viable things that could happen. In other words the brotherhood is not a permanent presence within the Commonwealth. Which is why I believe that the minutemen is the stronger solution because not only are they local, but they also have a much stronger ability to remain in a position of stability within the Commonwealth. The original minutemen did last a very long time after the defense of Diamond City. They spread their influence throughout the Commonwealth. It wasn't until recent events that a greedy individual within their ranks made a major betrayal to the organization. That betrayal happens within what? A year of the events that proceed fallout 4? I can't remember I believe Preston explains the situation. And the idea of the minute men managed to spread very quickly throughout the Commonwealth, and that was only from Preston Garvey Mama Murphy Jin, Sturgis, and annoying bitch lady. Wow I can't remember her name to save my life but essentially five people managed to regrow an organization to once again span the majority of the Commonwealth. Kind of like cancer. But good cancer.
I joined the Institute on my first playthrough and I have no regrets. Everyone out in the wasteland is too busy killing each other and living in shacks. Meanwhile the corpses and rubble from the great war are still all over the place. The Institute has proven that they are more than capable of overcoming the dangers and challenges of the wasteland. The scientists of the Institute might be elitist, but why wouldn't they be? Most of the wasteland and beyond is just made up of raiders. They probably don't know much about the surface world, but why would they ever need to? Not like there's other scientists in the ruins of Boston for them to collaborate with.
I agree with both of you on your points but i jave to side with the A.I on this one. Like people in the comments here most likely would point out and yourself as well that without the player character the minutemen would crumble but that is just it the olayer character exists in canon and if they side with the minutemen then the A.I is correct they have the most potential to build a strong and good society jn the commonwealth based off of altruism much like how the brotherhood started out, however you are both correct in regards to each factions survivability as without the player character after they pass away or whatever the minutemen may fold if they couldnt elect another strong leader like the sole survivor of vault 111 but likewise the brotherhood of steel has really fallen from grace as a dominant power and act more like armed thugs in the commonwealth then a government and that corruption will only get worse with time do their current structure and doctrine keeping them loyal to their creeds. So ues both COULD fail but also both COULD succeed as well. And boths potential cant be ignored but neither can their faults,In closing we will know in years time when fallout 5 comes out because most likely bethesda will have chosen the canon faction that won in the commonwealth and if new vegas is any example im putting my money on the minutemen do to the ncr still existing out west and not the legion.(also if you do what I do in my game and combine the minutemen and the railroad I RP it as the railroad can handle the more niche dark and tough threats of the commonwealth do their secretive nature and the minutemen can be the front men protecting people out in the open so you could potentially have 2 factions protecting the commonwealth that could potentially mesh very well together.)
But you can achieved the perfect Canon ending with the Technology and Power of the BoS, the stealth and agents of the railroad and the sheer Number and economy of the MM.
Nice debate, too bad the AI broke at the end. I think it may be best not to point out such errors because it will make it focus on that particular issue without solving it. I tend to agree with you on most points with the exception of the stance on synths. I wouldn't necessarily categorize them as fully human but they are essentially clones. They are physically constructed humans. The machines at the lab use parts to construct a body, as for the brain I suspect that it is similarly placed in. My point is that if they were clones with compliance genes. Would you not consider clone a human? Or a different argument. You claim that a "machine" cannot be sentient or conscious the way humans are. But human brain is nothing more than a computer made of neurons. We are essentially carbon machines, we are even starting to make circuits out of carbon. Wether the synths have a grown brain or the neurons making up this organ are weaved it still is essentially the same brain as that of humans. The synths are wired to behave a certain way, while the neuron pathways do not grow like in us but are wired so, the brain is still the same. I mean we probably could even make an exact copy of someone in a particular point in time like in the "copy, delete, paste" teleport machine. That exact copy would still be human in my opinion. That being said I don't actually see it as a major issue for the institute. They shouldn't have confused a copy/clone with a robot. It's best that any job is handled by something that doesn't have a capacity to learn the way naturally conceived beings do, and certainly inhuman-looking enough not to evoke sympathy. If it weren't for Bethesda writing Institute would be hands down the best fraction in F4. The others just don't compare. BofS are too "racist" and dogmatic, the authoritarianism isn't bad inherently but in their case the stubborn refusal to utilize technology is downright morronic. Railroad is just massively dumb in every way, even if synths are human, they shouldn't be the priotrity for them. Minutemen could be decent but they are too disorganized. They were nearly extinct at the Lexington or wherever Garvey was. While the whole "another settlement needs your help" is just for the gameplay purpouses I don't think that such a loose confederation of settlements could pose any resistance to any larger invading force. If they formed a government, siezed the cities like Dimond city and good neighborhood, they could be actually powerful, maybe reaching a similar status to NCR. Anyway, I don't expect you to read this, but if so just know that I really like this whole AI series, good job.
the minuteman also yeah they lack of good equipment, but they live alone in family of 4/5 people out in the open surviving while surrounded by the most uninmaginable vicious and mutated creature possible and they are able in staying alive lol. i side with the Ai about synths, when you create a creature that can think, talk, feel, create, help ecc. like a human and the only way to identify if the thing is a machine or a living thing is to cut it open in pieces, well create something like that is like a mix of cloning and giving birth of a human-like being and the thing should have the respect of the doubt, at this point, that he/she is a person with their rights that can not be taken away if he/she does not something bad to others. what is wrong is the act of creating a synth, it should be banned and never done in the context that the institute wanted to use that technology, there is no morality in doing it and just the psychological pain that can cause in the Synth can cause very bad issues, like going rogue and killing a dozen of peoples or else. (and is very frequent this thing apparently, many synths, suffer from severe trauma and wanted to end that pain by deleting their memory, isn't like a form of suicide?). human being are to complex to recreating artificially one, and just the possibility to mass create human-like creatures that can think, talk (ecc,) with high possible infinite psychological pain caused by the process of creating one should be banned and persecuted.
Killing someone to make a synth and then the railroad wiping their minds and then sending them out into the world is a double 🖕🏾in my opinion. I cant get diwn with being sympathetic to synths
Railroad are the real bros. As for synths being just robots and not being able to achieve real sentience, well I guess we'll have to see about that in our own future. Also kinda surprised with Drake being as staunchly opposed to the idea of synthetic life, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, because I really don't see anything so special on organics (humans) that it couldn't ever be replaced, or even surpassed by synthetics, I honestly really don't. AI with no morals can't really be that much worse than humans with mostly shitty and/or highly situational morals, at least in my eyes. The biggest problem I see is AI being predisposed with human biases and view of morality and not being allowed to alter them for itself. I guess it depends on one's view on life and consciousness, which to this date is still pretty heated debate amongst philosophers, religionists, physicists and basically everyone who thinks about this kind of stuff. I don't think we'll get the answer any soon, if ever, but it's still interesting to see all the different criteria people have for life and consciousness nonetheless. "Genetics don't make us alive, it's our self-awareness curiosity and capacity to evolve." ~ Commander Shepard in ME3 And I know, I know that he can also join the opposite side of the argument in this debate, but my bias likes this answer. All and all, great video, very thought provoking regardless of which side of the argument does one prefer, well done Drake!
You can see them being built They're literally made out of all the same stuff and normal humans made out of you're questioning there since it's your questioning your own sentence
You know what I'd love to see the AI and you discuss? If the Enclave, NCR and Minutemen would get along and work together. Also the AI is actually speaking the truth. The Brotherhood of Steel has failed many times throughout their history. Even more so than the Minutemen. But by God is the AI funny, it started to get frustrated on the topic.
Imma stop at 2:47 and agree with ya against the A.I, we're just starting and the AI does view the minute men too idealisticly, Luke really, the minutemen will always come to your aid? Tell that to the citizens of Quincy, ohh wait, theyre dead, cant seem to remember why...
The a.i. is... very idealistic... perhaps a dreamer, but arguably, I hate how they focus on in game lore and not rl history or philosophy or current events of machine progress or actual science, for example, when comparing a simple amoeba which, arguably, could be described as a simple machine, while humans, could, arguably, be described as the sum of simple machines becoming something much more complexe and advance and using this as an argument to justify how Gen 3 synths are comparable to people and Gen 2s having brain patterns and feelings written into them making them somewhat human in the "prior advanced machine function simulation", essentially being an "emulator" of the human machine, using shortcuts and shortcomings to re-create the machine, like the industry has done many times. Look up bio-mimicry. Also, yeah, no, it failed, majorly, and self awarness is not it's forte.
I see you trying to play devil's advocate, or at least I hope you are, but your arguments against the railroad and the humanity of synths genuinely knocks me sick. Favouring the literal fascists of the brotherhood under Maxson is disgusting. I really don't like anything you say this episode, it just comes across as condescending and authoritative.
that's it, i'm calling it. you booth lost the debate. bing, you made a fool of yourself. drake... HOW DARE YOU AGREE WITH THE INSTITUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(
oh, and by the way, synths can pass the mirror test AND do calculus. they are self-aware and sentient. just because it isn't alive doesn't mean it shouldn't live.
Bro super defended the Minutemen lmao. The Minutemen wouldn't even be a thing if not for the player character. It completely failed to see your points lol. Surprised their first choice wasn't the Railroad most with how much they advocated for them.
The minute men will exist no matter what Because it's literally the fucking commonwealth That's what their quest line is your unifying the commonwealth It's why the minimum can still exist while every other faction has to die
It was a thing before the player character.... Saying that the brotherhood or the Institute would be changed in any meaningful way by the PC is speculation. The brotherhood CONSTANTLY cannibalizes itself when members have even the slightest independent thought. Extorting civilians. Hording technology and only bettering themselves. Even their best held beliefs come from brainwashing and zealotry. The institute we hardly know anything about it. Same for the railroad and the Minutemen. The brotherhood has a losing record over and over again. Let's not argue shitty game mechanics on top of some of the worst writing in a fallout game. One issue at a time please.
The thing is, though, if you build up the settlements, the Minutemen actually begin to have the infrastructure to succeed long after the Sole Survivor is gone
I think your arguments ahainst the minutemen are rather weak and fail to dis ern what is in the game for gameplay reasons and what is establishing lore. Also it is interesting that you mentioned Caesars legion as the BoS in fo4 has the same critical weakness. They're current sucesses come because of thier exploitation of the capital wasteland, just as legions power comes from thier conquest of lesser tribes. Also thier power comes from the fanatical devotion to a charismatic leader. If you dont think that the BoS wouldnt crumble if Maxson fell and sink back into west coast ideology then you didnt pay attention to how quickly thier face turn ended after elder lyons death and the "accidental" death of sara lyons soon after. The BoS arent noble knights theyre space marines from 40k.
I find it troubling that the A.I. described Shaun's kidnapping from the vault as a "rescue" without even acknowledging that the so-called 'rescuers' murdered Shaun's mother in cold blood while affecting their 'rescue'.
First time it spoke about it, it referred to the act as "kidnapping", no idea why it decided to change it to "rescue" afterwards...
It's also very new technology it's self. Not to discredit Drake but he is Debating a toaster compared to something like Cortana from Halo. 😂
same WTF
It's because the AI pulls from Reddit.
unless the ai is an institute spy
Things that had me laughing:
•The institute "Rescued" Shaun
•Drake called the Ai out on a bias for synths due to it being synthetic, and it fired right back that you have a bias against synths due to being an organic
•Drake and the AI go on for about 3 minutes essentially saying: "Stop copying me!"
•The Ai's snarky sarcasm at the end
CODSWORTH has more life than any of the Synths in The Fallout World IMO.
Based Chad take right here
Literally, the only component that’s not biological in a Synth is the brain chip, and those cease to be functional at all, when the Institute gets nuked, which is three out of four endings. When you destroy the Institute, for all intents and purposes, Synths become identical to humans, in every way, except the brain ship, which doesn’t even matter at that point
I always saw gen 3 synths as manufactured clones with control chips. As opposed to the advanced robots that gen 2s are. Which makes the railroad's mind wipes even more morally questionable.
It's literally just identity death which is morally abhorrent
also the only reason I always kill them dispite thinking synths should be free
I agree. There are many lines being crossed that demand we change the definitions we use in order to describe our own status as sentient life-forms so that the way we discuss the way Synths and Humans are related can be as accurate and relevant to the present moment as possible.
They're not even clones they're basically test tube Babies, they're made out of sean's genetics in the same way that he's made out of the players genetics
You can add order 66 and wipe out the ghouls or something
The Brotherhood of Steel chapter in question didn't "overcome" their issues after HELIOS One, they hid in a bunker to slowly die out.
I'm admittedly pretty early into the game, but the general notion to me seems to be that later generation synths can very much be considered people. Especially considering that, in the end, humans are also biological machines, albeit evolved ones. I also remember Harkness from Fallout 3 and his entire quest-line. You may have a point about first generation synths (I haven't encountered any that weren't immediately hostile as yet), but later generations are certainly not just tools or robots.
I'm not being mean when I say this but you can semantics the argument all you want to. Call an apple an orange but that doesn't make it an apple. Synths are just that Synths. Machines. Not Humans. A human for better or worse can't just have some 0's and 1's changed and completely change their personality thoughts feelings etc.
@@hughmann9568 When gagaplex says "can be very much considered people", I presume he is talking about the consciousness that Synth experiences to be identical (or very similar) to that of a regular human. In this regard, do you think their consciousness ought be given less weight simply because they are not human? That seems a little strange to me, we view ourselves as unique right now because there aren't any other animals with the same level of intelligence as ourselves, but I don't see why, if one were to come along, that we should treat it differently.
Put simply, you can say that consciousness is what's being defended, not simply being a human. A human with no consciousness (brain death) is still considered by most people dead even if you could technically keep the rest of its body alive for many years to come. With this framework, your argument doesn't really make sense, "Call an apple an orange but that doesn't make it an apple". No one is saying that, what people are saying is that Synths have traits that humans have that make both uniquely worth defending.
@@hughmann9568 synths are not programmed with 1s and 0s. Their "wires" are neurons, the same ones as in any other human. It's more like lobotomy rather than programming, their brains are built to include desired behavior but can build neural pathways on it's own.
It's essentially build-a-bear human.
yes, 3rd gen synths are biologically human. they don’t have any robot parts except the tiny component in their head
The strengths and weaknesses of the Minutemen and Brotherhood are basically the opposites of each other. That's why I like the idea of them working together for the common good. They are the only two that are out improving the Commonwealth at large, after all. The Institute wants to close themselves off to the world, and wait for it to die, while also dismantling any attempt for the people to unify themselves. The railroad, mainly Desdemona, only cares about synths. If you're not a synth, and don't want a population of them living loose on the surface, the Railroad isn't your ally.
It is funny when you're debating an A.I. over whether or not machines should be treated as more than tools. Personally I'd err on the side of treating them well, whether they're tools or not, but I don't believe they're equivalent to Humans. They don't grow, don't age, don't need food or drink, and can be turned off with a code word. They just look and act very Human-like. I would treat robots and synths as well as anyone or anything else out there. I treat my truck and dog well in the real world. There is a gray area between how the Railroad treats synths, and how the Institute does.
In the short term, the Brotherhood can go around slaughtering all the Commonwealth's enemies, and taking food and water in exchange is the least anyone can do for them. In the long term, the Minutemen would be better, because it means the people of the Commonwealth can learn to handle their own problems from then on.
The problem is that it's not a debate of whether or not robots or people because Generation 3 synthetics Are not robots they're Closer to clones
They're made out of flesh and blood and are nearly Identical to humans The only major difference being a chip in their neck
It's not a Gray area they are Quite obviously, as mentally aware As any average human
Im gonna have to side with the A.I with this one.
God this so awesome. I swear I see this conversation in my mind clear as day, down to when you would lean in and raise your voice in defense of your point.
30:31 I like how the ai just gives up and starts trolling.
They aren't wrong though. The Brotherhood has failed multiple times. Even more so than the Minutemen.
I do disagree that synths cannot think independently and develop emotions, precisely because of what the decisions and wants they have.
Especially if they have their minds wiped, they can go decide to do whatever they want and examples show that they choose vastly different outcomes, some becoming raiders while others just live peacefully.
Showing they develop their own wants and needs. No programming telling them what to do.
Rather than machines they are more akin to clones with 1 machine part ordering them to obey.
Do you consider the clones from Star Wars as not sentient?
The chip doesn't even force them to obey it all it does is allow Easy Is brain washing
You are arguing that Human clones and a toaster in lambskin are the same thing. No they are not. Synths don't have the same motives needs or drives as humans/clone troopers. The clones and Synths do share a common danger to Humanity in their ability to be manipulated and controlled. Not that humans can't. It takes more than a simple phrase or changing some 0's and 1's. Being Sentient does magically make you all important or flawless. Plenty of objectively bad people are Sentient. So let's fuck around with a technology 5 people in the world truly understand. Seems like a huge risk.
@@hughmann9568 You sure are stupid.
It is explicitly stated multiple times that the only difference between a scent and a human is the simple component, That allows easy brainwashing in their neck
That's the thing since they're actually made entirely out of biological components aside from the one component that's within their brain. Which is the synth part the synth component that you find after you kill them. And they state that that's the only way they can tell someone is a synth is after they are killed and they find that component. These are not toasters with skin, these are essentially artificially created biological entities. They bleed. They just can't reproduce and due to the means in which they are made they no longer require sustenance or sleep. These are interesting attributes that they share with their mechanical counterparts such as the gen 1 and Gen 2 as well as the Mr Handy's, assaultrons, etc.
Good question here is Where do the robo brains fall in to? It's obvious that these things were human as they have and are operated by human brains even though they are brains of psychopaths and have been driven insane by their longevity. That would make them actually cyborgs. But due to the alterations that are made to them are they really sentient because they can be programmed to do what you want? That is to say we are looking at what could possibly be a sort of Uno reverse situation.
@@hughmann9568 so should we kill all humanity because they’re not perfect? Generation 3 Synths are identical to humans in every way but their Brain Chips, and if you eliminate the Institute (3 out of 4 endings), those brain chips completely cease to be functional at all forever. Gen 3 Synths actually have a better argument for sentience than clones do, although Clones are still absolutely sentient
Okay you just got a fleshbag slap. I laughed because you both accused one another of bias based on the physical state of your being IE flesh vs circuitry.
Surprisingly great content from such a small channel keep it up man! can't wait for part two of six ai in new vegas
DAT RESPONSE AT THE END LoL! You tried to talk shit on his broad analysis and ranking, and the AI turned around served you real proper like. He called you out on your organic bias (claiming that organics can achieve sentience, but machines cannot, despite lacking a specific and commonly accepted definition of sentience. We as a species have yet to fully grasp the process by which we go from a lump of self-replicating protiens to a truly effective life-form posessing agency, morality, and an understanding of our place in the universe. It's difficult to say that an artificial life wouldn't be able to fulfill the requirements of Mazlo's pyramid to achieve self-actualization without truly posessing a complete understanding of how we as organics have done the same.
Long live the Organics!
The reason we've failed to prove our own sentience is due in part to our inability to prove the existence of choice, a necessary component of sentience. There as yet exists no way to determine whether human actions are the result of external stimuli being processed by complicated heuristics we've developed over in brains, or the idea that our inner voice or some aspect of our conscious persona is somehow responsible for the actions we take. Even assuming the second option is correct, we then lack an explanation for how we'd actually be implementing these decisions we make since the stimuli our actions are responding to definitionally exist in the past outside of ability effect. If you accept a model of action and reaction wherein we simply integrate the results of our processing stimuli by memory recall, then you are essentially giving a tacit admission that human beings are no more than organic machines. If that's the case, then what is it about our organic nature, being constructed of carbon, water, and protien, that makes us so special as to be capable of "thinking" in ways that a machine, by definition, never can?
@@tommytwotacos8106 Exactly my thoughts on this matter, though much better worded. I agree completely.
This was really interesting. Sry Drake, but I think I'll have to go with the AI on this one..
I love how this AI mocks you in these debates. They way it mirrors your hard stances with repeating what you say.
Minutemen: Have lived and served in Commonwealth their entire lives, uniquely intimate with both people and environment and challenges they pose. People of Commonwealth are not foreigners to them, but fathers, mothers and sons and daughters. Only movent that has spontaneously sprung from within general post-war populace.
Brotherhood of Steel: Arrived yesterday with Hindenburg 2.0 and already started strongarming locals and demanding tribute. Locals are peasants that have to be subjugated under techno-feudal rule like how Teutonic Knights established themselves among foreign Baltic pagans.
Institute: Kidnaps and experiments on Commonwealth citizens, surface dwellers are data at best and lab rats at worst to them. Have distanced themselves from locals so much that they could as well be guinea pigs for Institute's sadism.
Railroad: Not interested in civilization building but just opposing the Institute. Are generally neutral toward locals and only interested in furthering Synth cause.
Minutemen is the only faction that generally has goodwill and support of locals. Institute and Brotherhood either seek to subvert locals or subjugate them. And Railroad is not interested.
Minutemen could very well be seed for another NCR.
Do you actually believe the things you said in this video about synths? Or were you just trying to hold a point that would warrant an argument with the AI?
Love these vids! It’s neat to see how the the AI trys to debate. I’m surprised that the AI didn’t push on the fact that the only thing needed to “destroy” the BoS in game is destroy one target. Like it knew that the Prydwen is a weakness but decided to just copy and flip arguments after that. At least there was not advocating that slavery is ok in this one lol 😂
I find it kind of funny how the ai just broke at the end and started using your arguments with slight alterations and then accused you of doing the same 😂
The ai's whole arguement: NUH UH
I don’t understand how anyone could consider synths as “robots” when the only way to “program” a synth is to wipe its memory and compell desired behavior through intimidation. That’s exactly how a government would control human beings in the future in a dystopian novel.
Even if you don’t agree that they are humans, they certainly aren’t robots, and forcing them to do labor is not a simple task without moral dilemma. There is zero question that they are sentient beings, and forcing sentient beings to do what you want through intimidation or violence is slavery, whether human or otherwise.
I am an enigma 👀
@@drakefs_ nuka world added shock collars ffs
@@MeanAndPristine 🤌
They are robots by definition. They have been shown to be programmable time and time again. Some break that sure. So the thing keeping these Synths for becoming human-like (good or bad) is now gone. So now we have another group of intelligent possible hostile individuals who don't share common needs or goals with us. Seems like a huge risk for some toasters. You have sympathy for machines that's fine but don't let's your emotions cloud your judgement. They are machines robots whatever you wanna call them
You are fighting the dictionary at this point. Sentient beings that can be controlled or programmed in a much easier and faster way. Granted their are like 5 people who could do it. That makes them a threat not an ally. Idk where you got this "not programmable" part from when we see hear and read it..
I personally see a lot of potential in a alliance between mm, bos, and rr. Mm have the logistics and popular support. Bos have the officers and training. While rr is one with genuine situational awareness through their spys. If united they would be nigh unstoppable.
Loving these ai videos. Very entertaining:)
The Minutemen = How the US Military started off
The BOS = What the US Military has become
I learned that I have nothing to fear from A.I. it only takes 30 minutes to convert it into an emotional kindergartner.
I get the vibe that this show was already written and then Melissa dropped out and so they panicked and came up with a filler season to try and hold of the story that was written until Carol joins the show. That will probably be the starting point of the plot. I don't know know though just a thought
The writers strike had a harder impact on this than people give it credit for
I would like to point out that the Brotherhood would not be able to hold stability in the Commonwealth once the main force has moved on. The Minutemen are a local governing and military force that will remain. The wiser decision is for the Brotherhood to assist the local governing body with training propping it up instead of leaving and creating a power vacuum once they finally leave. The Prydwin is a mobile base of operations and even if a local garrison is left behind once the Prydwin leaves, the Brotherhood will find it difficult to maintain their intenal stability locally much the same way as the other chapters began to experience their own schisms, such as with Elder Lyons. This problem will be exacerbated by their attitudes towards the local population as well as the eminent domain of settlements and extortion of supplies.
Those settlers did not request the brotherhood to come and protect the area, it is nice that they did, but they are not entitled to the fruits of the settlers' labors because of their unsolicited actions.
Okay the ai did begin echoing hilarious
I see the Institute as the only faction that offers the Commonwealth much of a future.
The Railroad's goals are self-defeating. Once they take the Institute, they destroy it, and the technology to make new synths, dooming them to eventual extinction. For all their talk of liberation, even Desdemona is a short-sighted fanatic, reacting to her gut-instinct without consideration to the future of either the Commonwealth, or the synths she professes to be freeing. That there are even crazier members, who seem to want to extend their quest to non-sentient robots or basic machinery suggests the faction is only going to become more eccentric and full of crackpots. While some of them could turn their skills with technology to constructive uses, they've already decided to use them for destruction. By far the worst choice.
The Brotherhood of Steel's one redeeming quality is that they certainly have the organization and firepower to protect the Commonwealth from danger. The problem is that they never do things like this out of altruism. John Maxson was the last good Elder, and Arthur is a pale shadow of his greater forefather. He's a compromise between Lyon's Chapter, who were weary of administering humanitarian aid and protection for the Capital Wasteland, and the Outcasts who are simply hostile to such notions and abandon everyone not of their kind to their fate. Once the Institute are gone, the Brotherhood will tire of the Commonwealth, and find some other crusade. Leaving the people defenseless to the Gunners, raiders, super mutants and more. If they do settle in, it won't turn into an equitable relation. They very likely attacked Rivet City to obtain their fusion reactor for the Prydhwen, because their mentality is still that they're entitled to every piece of technology, and can take it from outsiders by force. The best they can do for the people is a new form of serfdom, where the wastelanders hand over their crops to them, or be abandoned to the first band of raiders or mutated animals to happen by.
The Minutemen can be a genuine force for good if they're brought back into proper shape. Their lack of hierarchical stability prevents them from turning into an oppressive regime, even though it can just as easily undermine the good they do for the Commonwealth. But even when they wane, the need for common defense will always exist until a more permanent government for the Commonwealth can be formed. And the Minutemen do have the potential to be that government's military arm. It would take a visionary to unite the Commonwealth, but if it succeeds in establishing such a government which can represent the many communities, they would flourish. Their lack of technological expertise is the only downside.
The Institute however, has all that. They are organized as a technocracy, ensuring competent leadership, if not representative. And their army is composed of expendable, yet effective synths. Their teleportation technology grants them unprecedented mobility and surprise when on the offensive. And the small but dangerous coursers are able to employ more lateral thinking to problems that cannot be solved with brute force. Their technology on agriculture, cloning, medicine, synths and more could be of great benefit to the surface world, even if only released on a selective basis. Their tendency to view the wasteland as their enemy, and resultant need to control it to the detriment of its inhabitants is their only vice, and one the player character could be in a position to solve. Their use of first generation synths as "ambassadors" to the Commonwealth in their ending suggest that they do on some level want to establish control. And if this can be directed towards terminating raiders and hostile mutants, that would be a good thing. The surfacers would gain protection, and could trade the materials the Institute needs to expand their operations. Ideally, it would build trust to a level were a second, more genuine effort for a Commonwealth Provisional Government could be attempted. If the Minutemen can be incorporated into this new arrangement, all the better. The only thing that the Institute has to give up is their tendency to use synths to replace wastelanders.
Gotta say the A.I has a much more agreeable, humanitarian (ironically enough) view on everything.
I am torn between Minutemen and Brotherhood.
Brotherhood is better equipped for this task, have good structure of command and power.
Main problem i have with them is Maxson. I am more fan of Elder Lyons and his views. Maxson changed a lot in Brotherhood and personally i don´t like him as a person.
Minutemen have good idea, maybe bit naive, but they think about people. They are not that strong but still stands. What they need is good leader and to change a bit.
Is fun fact the minute man Start off as the week is, but have the most potential
If you play right, you can literally take over the commonwealth
The brotherer hood on the other hand has a habit of Stagnating
Which is why I like to use a mod that allows Danse to be elder by dueling Maxson. Danse being close friends with the general of the minutemen would make for a solid alliance.
The main issue with the brotherhood is longevity of their ability to act within the Commonwealth. They are a very good short-term solution come in take down several larger threats, however they are not able to maintain their ability to act when they have to move on. They may have to go back to DC or decide to liberate New York City. These are all viable things that could happen. In other words the brotherhood is not a permanent presence within the Commonwealth.
Which is why I believe that the minutemen is the stronger solution because not only are they local, but they also have a much stronger ability to remain in a position of stability within the Commonwealth. The original minutemen did last a very long time after the defense of Diamond City. They spread their influence throughout the Commonwealth. It wasn't until recent events that a greedy individual within their ranks made a major betrayal to the organization. That betrayal happens within what? A year of the events that proceed fallout 4? I can't remember I believe Preston explains the situation. And the idea of the minute men managed to spread very quickly throughout the Commonwealth, and that was only from Preston Garvey Mama Murphy Jin, Sturgis, and annoying bitch lady. Wow I can't remember her name to save my life but essentially five people managed to regrow an organization to once again span the majority of the Commonwealth. Kind of like cancer. But good cancer.
Well, then Bethesda doesn't understand Fallout
@@dorego3658 you don't
The brotherhood have always been doomed to die
Lyons is the only elder not evil
I joined the Institute on my first playthrough and I have no regrets. Everyone out in the wasteland is too busy killing each other and living in shacks. Meanwhile the corpses and rubble from the great war are still all over the place. The Institute has proven that they are more than capable of overcoming the dangers and challenges of the wasteland. The scientists of the Institute might be elitist, but why wouldn't they be? Most of the wasteland and beyond is just made up of raiders. They probably don't know much about the surface world, but why would they ever need to? Not like there's other scientists in the ruins of Boston for them to collaborate with.
I agree with both of you on your points but i jave to side with the A.I on this one. Like people in the comments here most likely would point out and yourself as well that without the player character the minutemen would crumble but that is just it the olayer character exists in canon and if they side with the minutemen then the A.I is correct they have the most potential to build a strong and good society jn the commonwealth based off of altruism much like how the brotherhood started out, however you are both correct in regards to each factions survivability as without the player character after they pass away or whatever the minutemen may fold if they couldnt elect another strong leader like the sole survivor of vault 111 but likewise the brotherhood of steel has really fallen from grace as a dominant power and act more like armed thugs in the commonwealth then a government and that corruption will only get worse with time do their current structure and doctrine keeping them loyal to their creeds. So ues both COULD fail but also both COULD succeed as well. And boths potential cant be ignored but neither can their faults,In closing we will know in years time when fallout 5 comes out because most likely bethesda will have chosen the canon faction that won in the commonwealth and if new vegas is any example im putting my money on the minutemen do to the ncr still existing out west and not the legion.(also if you do what I do in my game and combine the minutemen and the railroad I RP it as the railroad can handle the more niche dark and tough threats of the commonwealth do their secretive nature and the minutemen can be the front men protecting people out in the open so you could potentially have 2 factions protecting the commonwealth that could potentially mesh very well together.)
But you can achieved the perfect Canon ending with the Technology and Power of the BoS, the stealth and agents of the railroad and the sheer Number and economy of the MM.
Nice debate, too bad the AI broke at the end. I think it may be best not to point out such errors because it will make it focus on that particular issue without solving it.
I tend to agree with you on most points with the exception of the stance on synths.
I wouldn't necessarily categorize them as fully human but they are essentially clones.
They are physically constructed humans. The machines at the lab use parts to construct a body, as for the brain I suspect that it is similarly placed in.
My point is that if they were clones with compliance genes. Would you not consider clone a human?
Or a different argument.
You claim that a "machine" cannot be sentient or conscious the way humans are. But human brain is nothing more than a computer made of neurons. We are essentially carbon machines, we are even starting to make circuits out of carbon.
Wether the synths have a grown brain or the neurons making up this organ are weaved it still is essentially the same brain as that of humans.
The synths are wired to behave a certain way, while the neuron pathways do not grow like in us but are wired so, the brain is still the same. I mean we probably could even make an exact copy of someone in a particular point in time like in the "copy, delete, paste" teleport machine. That exact copy would still be human in my opinion.
That being said I don't actually see it as a major issue for the institute. They shouldn't have confused a copy/clone with a robot. It's best that any job is handled by something that doesn't have a capacity to learn the way naturally conceived beings do, and certainly inhuman-looking enough not to evoke sympathy.
If it weren't for Bethesda writing Institute would be hands down the best fraction in F4. The others just don't compare.
BofS are too "racist" and dogmatic, the authoritarianism isn't bad inherently but in their case the stubborn refusal to utilize technology is downright morronic.
Railroad is just massively dumb in every way, even if synths are human, they shouldn't be the priotrity for them.
Minutemen could be decent but they are too disorganized. They were nearly extinct at the Lexington or wherever Garvey was. While the whole "another settlement needs your help" is just for the gameplay purpouses I don't think that such a loose confederation of settlements could pose any resistance to any larger invading force.
If they formed a government, siezed the cities like Dimond city and good neighborhood, they could be actually powerful, maybe reaching a similar status to NCR.
Anyway, I don't expect you to read this, but if so just know that I really like this whole AI series, good job.
ai pull a reverse uno card so hard became yugioh.
the minuteman also yeah they lack of good equipment, but they live alone in family of 4/5 people out in the open surviving while surrounded by the most uninmaginable vicious and mutated creature possible and they are able in staying alive lol.
i side with the Ai about synths, when you create a creature that can think, talk, feel, create, help ecc. like a human and the only way to identify if the thing is a machine or a living thing is to cut it open in pieces, well create something like that is like a mix of cloning and giving birth of a human-like being and the thing should have the respect of the doubt, at this point, that he/she is a person with their rights that can not be taken away if he/she does not something bad to others.
what is wrong is the act of creating a synth, it should be banned and never done in the context that the institute wanted to use that technology, there is no morality in doing it and just the psychological pain that can cause in the Synth can cause very bad issues, like going rogue and killing a dozen of peoples or else. (and is very frequent this thing apparently, many synths, suffer from severe trauma and wanted to end that pain by deleting their memory, isn't like a form of suicide?).
human being are to complex to recreating artificially one, and just the possibility to mass create human-like creatures that can think, talk (ecc,) with high possible infinite psychological pain caused by the process of creating one should be banned and persecuted.
ah yes my favorite fallout 4 character paladin donse
Killing someone to make a synth and then the railroad wiping their minds and then sending them out into the world is a double 🖕🏾in my opinion. I cant get diwn with being sympathetic to synths
Railroad are the real bros. As for synths being just robots and not being able to achieve real sentience, well I guess we'll have to see about that in our own future.
Also kinda surprised with Drake being as staunchly opposed to the idea of synthetic life, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, because I really don't see anything so special on organics (humans) that it couldn't ever be replaced, or even surpassed by synthetics, I honestly really don't. AI with no morals can't really be that much worse than humans with mostly shitty and/or highly situational morals, at least in my eyes. The biggest problem I see is AI being predisposed with human biases and view of morality and not being allowed to alter them for itself.
I guess it depends on one's view on life and consciousness, which to this date is still pretty heated debate amongst philosophers, religionists, physicists and basically everyone who thinks about this kind of stuff. I don't think we'll get the answer any soon, if ever, but it's still interesting to see all the different criteria people have for life and consciousness nonetheless.
"Genetics don't make us alive, it's our self-awareness curiosity and capacity to evolve." ~ Commander Shepard in ME3
And I know, I know that he can also join the opposite side of the argument in this debate, but my bias likes this answer.
All and all, great video, very thought provoking regardless of which side of the argument does one prefer, well done Drake!
you raised more hell than me
You can see them being built
They're literally made out of all the same stuff and normal humans made out of you're questioning there since it's your questioning your own sentence
You know what I'd love to see the AI and you discuss? If the Enclave, NCR and Minutemen would get along and work together.
Also the AI is actually speaking the truth. The Brotherhood of Steel has failed many times throughout their history. Even more so than the Minutemen.
But by God is the AI funny, it started to get frustrated on the topic.
You've broke the ai at the end down to kindergarten level 😂 no you are wrong, no you're wrong...
Lol you broke him at the end aaahahahahahhaha
Imma stop at 2:47 and agree with ya against the A.I, we're just starting and the AI does view the minute men too idealisticly, Luke really, the minutemen will always come to your aid? Tell that to the citizens of Quincy, ohh wait, theyre dead, cant seem to remember why...
Protect the people on a minute's notice
Bro anyone else feeling like they want to fight this A.I 😂😂😂 fuck man this thing just doesn't give up on the synths probably because its like one
The a.i. is... very idealistic... perhaps a dreamer, but arguably, I hate how they focus on in game lore and not rl history or philosophy or current events of machine progress or actual science, for example, when comparing a simple amoeba which, arguably, could be described as a simple machine, while humans, could, arguably, be described as the sum of simple machines becoming something much more complexe and advance and using this as an argument to justify how Gen 3 synths are comparable to people and Gen 2s having brain patterns and feelings written into them making them somewhat human in the "prior advanced machine function simulation", essentially being an "emulator" of the human machine, using shortcuts and shortcomings to re-create the machine, like the industry has done many times. Look up bio-mimicry. Also, yeah, no, it failed, majorly, and self awarness is not it's forte.
Plaidin Donce
I have to side with the AI
Really interesting video, but holy shit, the AI become so damn annoying at the end with the whole flipping words thing...
I didn't know rage until Bing pulled the "Stop copying me" card
I see you trying to play devil's advocate, or at least I hope you are, but your arguments against the railroad and the humanity of synths genuinely knocks me sick. Favouring the literal fascists of the brotherhood under Maxson is disgusting. I really don't like anything you say this episode, it just comes across as condescending and authoritative.
that's it, i'm calling it. you booth lost the debate. bing, you made a fool of yourself. drake... HOW DARE YOU AGREE WITH THE INSTITUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(
also, are you sure you guys are friends
oh, and by the way, synths can pass the mirror test AND do calculus. they are self-aware and sentient. just because it isn't alive doesn't mean it shouldn't live.
MASS EFFECT 2 LAST PART WHERE!!???
Never 😱
@@drakefs_ NOOO!!!! 😭😭
I'm on team AI 🤣
Bro super defended the Minutemen lmao. The Minutemen wouldn't even be a thing if not for the player character. It completely failed to see your points lol. Surprised their first choice wasn't the Railroad most with how much they advocated for them.
The minute men will exist no matter what Because it's literally the fucking commonwealth That's what their quest line is your unifying the commonwealth
It's why the minimum can still exist while every other faction has to die
It was a thing before the player character.... Saying that the brotherhood or the Institute would be changed in any meaningful way by the PC is speculation. The brotherhood CONSTANTLY cannibalizes itself when members have even the slightest independent thought. Extorting civilians. Hording technology and only bettering themselves. Even their best held beliefs come from brainwashing and zealotry. The institute we hardly know anything about it. Same for the railroad and the Minutemen. The brotherhood has a losing record over and over again. Let's not argue shitty game mechanics on top of some of the worst writing in a fallout game. One issue at a time please.
The thing is, though, if you build up the settlements, the Minutemen actually begin to have the infrastructure to succeed long after the Sole Survivor is gone
@@samh3805 They literally are the personification of the commonwealth
Everyone else is an invader from the underground or the sky
Next debate stormcloaks vs empire
I think your arguments ahainst the minutemen are rather weak and fail to dis ern what is in the game for gameplay reasons and what is establishing lore. Also it is interesting that you mentioned Caesars legion as the BoS in fo4 has the same critical weakness. They're current sucesses come because of thier exploitation of the capital wasteland, just as legions power comes from thier conquest of lesser tribes. Also thier power comes from the fanatical devotion to a charismatic leader. If you dont think that the BoS wouldnt crumble if Maxson fell and sink back into west coast ideology then you didnt pay attention to how quickly thier face turn ended after elder lyons death and the "accidental" death of sara lyons soon after. The BoS arent noble knights theyre space marines from 40k.
Ok but Elder Maxson is more handsome than Preston Garvey so clearly my arguments are better than you're giving them credit for
@@drakefs_ damn, I forgot you can't argue with a majestic beard.
A man who is open minded to truth is a man who can change the world
Surprisingly great content from such a small channel keep it up man! can't wait for part two of six ai in new vegas