Being a 4-year old video, this is more for the recent viewers and still relevant. Thanks for posting. Everyone can learn from this. Don't feel bad. The "bust" was mostly from "chicken shit" stuff (yes, that's the term we use). Your DPE was way too conservative and more concerned for his "check ride". Usually, DPE's getting a "check ride" from the FAA will make things as easy as possible for you so they have an easy decision to pass you. This guy took the easy way out and busted you for some very minor areas. If you took the plane back for a bad mag check, you pass. Trying to fix a marginal mag check with a lean run-up should have been a debrief item. If you know how much fuel you have, that's all that matters. Unfortunately, low time CFI's don't know everything. But they should know what the DPE is going to ask. Previous students usually fill out a "Gouge Book" and debrief everything that happened on their check ride. Your video will go a long way towards helping others. I have over 25,000 hrs in over 40 years of Air Force, Airline and GA flying, and probably on the order of over 100 check rides under my belt. Biplanes to the biggest Boeing's, gliders to supersonic jets, and my pulse rate still goes up on check rides. One of my Air Force Squadrons Check Section (pilot examiners) had a sign that read, "The Greatest Fool Can Ask More Than The Wisest Man Can Answer". Meaning that even the best pilot doesn't know everything. I'm still learning, and I'm a major airline senior Captain (or as my FO's say, I'm a captain and a senior citizen:) Put it behind you and press on. Don't sweat the small stuff. Have a beer and enjoy the journey. You're getting in at a great time.
You will make it far. Admitting our own shortcomings is often times one of the hardest things to do. I failed my instrument oral twice, and my instrument FTD once and now work for a US Legacy carrier. Keep up the good work and don’t let this little hiccup get you. Good luck!
Yea, I have moments when I wonder if I'm doing the right thing? Iv'e heard that is called flight training. I'm a bit nervous about the flight portion now.. mostly emergency procedures and remembering them quickly. Anyway, thanks for taking time to comment.
@user-it6uu1ej6c It takes more school to be a hairstylost than a cop , they get paid 80 to 100k in City PFs and 20 years and then 80% pension. . That's not shit .
Keep studying man. As someone who also went through ATP, I know the stress. One word of advice I would have is to study per the ACS rather than a gouge. Gouges are a great supplement to help you prepare but I feel ATP focuses on these gouges too much and should focus more on the ACS. The ACS is a blueprint of your check ride. Every examiner I ever took a ride with used the ACS (or PTS) during the check ride. If they fail you for something that isn't listed in the ACS, then you have something to complain about. Also, know your checklists completely. There should be a checklist for a fouled spark plug on one of your checklists (not sure for the Archer as I trained in a Cessna). If you don't know what one of those checklists is for, ask your instructor. Most importantly, don't get down on yourself for this bust. You seem to have the right attitude about it which is good. Just study hard on everything that the flight portion could bring and go knock it out of the park when you recheck. Good luck to you man!
Thank Gabe. I definitely study the ACS book and would recommend that everyone does the same. At the end of the day, you have to be prepared and know your stuff. Shortcuts are never going to work in this program, at least not for long. The Archer doesn't have that checklist btw. It's all good now, I learned how to truly prepare for a checkride, and will do better as I progress. Thank you for taking time to message me. Take care!
You may not know now but these types of videos and stories will help soo many people and yourself in the future. I busted a commercial checkride and it sucked for awhile, but then a few weeks later a fellow student came up to me saying he passed his checkride by avoiding the pitfalls that took me down. Instantly I realized the impact that sharing your failures has on others. Koodos to you sir, you will go far.
f3nd13y I appreciate you saying that. Some of my peers were saying the same thing. I did pass as of 5/18 so I’m officially a private pilot. As you know, it starts all over now. Thank you so much for watching and your words.
Don't get discouraged man. It is really easy to do that when a bust happens. They really are not a big deal as long as they are learned from. I am a commercial pilot and taking my CFI ride in about 3 weeks. I have a friend who failed his PPL, his IFR ride, and his CPL. Yet, hes still at it and is now holds his CPL and going for his CFI. The airlines will ask you about the failures and make sure you know why you failed and that you are now knowledgeable in the failed areas and are competent. No worries. study hard, stay calm in the check ride. If you know your stuff going in, there is no reason to be super nervous (you of course will be nervous but don't doubt yourself!! Think positive and vision walking out of the checkride with your rating. That is what I did and it seriously kept me from self doubt!). Im ready for the CFI, honestly think the checkride will be fun. Keep at it!
Ross Crichlow Good luck and crush it! Thanks Ross. I will be making another vid in a few days, but just passed my IFR yesterday 7/18. First attempt and got my ticket. Still was nervous, but studied and came in confident. Thanks for the help. Let me know how ya do!
awesome man congrats. I gotta get brushed up on my IFR material for CFII. If you can pass that IFR, commercial will be a breeze and a ton of fun soloing around for 50 hours. I'll keep in touch. I fly out of KLAL
I'm looking into ATP, and trying to get as many perspectives as possible. I'm kinda worried I won't do well. But I just want to say, I really appreciate the honest and realistic approach in your videos. Please keep this up, and keep us posted. Thanks alot man!
Hey buddy, I have the utmost respect for you my friend...!!!! Trust me, you are going to go over and beyond in your flying career because of your positive attitude..You will do fine the next time around.. You're probably already a Private Pilot now... It's August... All of us in the comment section are rooting for you...So dust yourself off and get right back out there...!!!!! Let us know how you did...Take care, Good luck to you....
I was at ATP, I'm an MEI, CFI-I, CFI-SE; and it happens to EVERYONE who makes a career in aviation... so get used to it. I busted my PP in 2003 (and not my only bust). It's not a big deal and don't be too hard on yourself. The checkride jitters are legit, and you are 100% right-on to learn from it, and move forward! Keep charging forward and learning. Godspeed!
Ohhhhhh That was a whole other thing that I didn't even mention. The FAA guy was 250lbs and we were overweight by 30lbs. But since I flew 35 min to get there and could take out a case of oil and my flight bag.. well..hmmmm. smh ;/
Oh, seriously? Chance blown! I would have said to the FAA guy, I'm sorry, you tip the scales, you can't fly with us! There would have been NOTHING he could have done about that! :D :D :p )
This is very honest of you. I've noticed that a lot of ATP students will stop updating us after a busted checkride. Best of luck and thank you! After busting a checkride, what is ATPs policy when it comes to dropping a student?
I'm not sure honestly? I just know the school and instructors really want you to succeed. I think if someone works on doing their best, it will speak volumes.
ATP won't drop you for busting checkrides. I believe the only thing is that if you bust on 3 or more checkrides, they don't guarantee you an instructor job with ATP upon completing the program.
Thanks for posting! I know it takes a lot but it’s so good to get some real-life experience. I just busted my mock checkride yesterday with my school. It hurts to feel like a crappy student pilot but I think sometimes the stars align and all the wrong questions are asked. We only come out stronger from our failures 💪🏼
Don't worry. The dpe and I could not start the airplane. Rescheduled the check ride. On second check ride he tells me the fuel selector was shut off on the first airplane. Ends up it had just returned from maintenance. Neither one of us caught it!
Everyone gets check rides. I was getting my CFI Glider renewed and they sent a new FAA examiner down to do it. He was an ex-navy pilot and had just qualified on gliders in a trainer and they wanted me to check him out in a high performance ship. I had mentioned stalls and spins and he said they didn't do spins on check rides. I had him going through a normal series of stalls then talked him into an inverted spin out of a slow skidding turn. He recovered afer a couple turns, looked back at me and said, "You knew that was going to happen." I replied, "Yes, but you didn't and that's the main thing." Later in debriefing he told me that his first thought was to bust me but then realized that I'd done exactly what he needed.
3 hours of solo pattern work in one flight is way too much for a new student. And don’t beat yourself up for failing a checkride. Ultimately it’s a relevant, it’s logged as training and you just go back and do another one. I personally failed two. My fixed wing Private, and my Commercial Helicopter. Both were due to the jitters. I studied my ass off, and was very well prepared, but there’s just something about flying with an examiner that gets me all shook up, and I test horribly. I’m overly critical of myself, and when I make a minor mistake on the check ride, I tend to obsess over it in my head to the point where it ruins the rest of my check ride. However, that being said, I went back and passed them all fine. I got my private pilot rating in airplanes and a commercial and instrument rating in helicopters after doing a private pilot add-on in helicopters. A failed check ride is just like a failed flight review, you log it as training and you come back to try again.
Great Video. I'm studying to become a CFI and it's overwhelming a lot of information and most people bust the checkride. Thank you, when you get knocked down its about how quick you get up. You seem very motivated keep up good work ! Private is license to learn. Not to know everything ! Remember this when you become CFI if you choose that route
Here’s my problem...assuming you answered taxi back and get it checked out...that’s not a wrong answer and certainly not something to bust on. As PIC you make the call. Taxiing back is the right thing to do if you don’t know how to attempt to decarbon the plugs.
This I think is a major shortcoming of integrated fast paced programs. Lacks detail and forces you down a pipeline. But stress is a major part...if that stress affected you to the level you perceived then that is something you must work on before it affects flight safety. The items you had difficulty with I didn’t learn through flight instruction...it was supplemented materials and POH. If I may suggest: subscribe to The Finer Points. Jason Miller has podcasts of immense value.
Please tell us ... 1) what materials (books, etc) were you studying to gain the knowledge at this stage - Gleim books, Jeppesen books, what? And, 2) do you feel that your CFI ought to have drilled more of that information into your brain before the exam? Thank you.
I was also educated on how to troubleshoot a rough mag by a DPE. Luckily we were not on a checkride and he was not acting as a DPE at the time because I had no clue. I was sweating bullets on my checkride but it was one of my best flights so far. Everything just worked out.
Dude, this isn't your fault, it's your instructors fault. It's the instructors responsibility to show you the tabs in the fuel tanks and the stall tabs and to show you how to fix the mag problem. I'm assuming that he didn't since you said that you had no idea what they were. I would go to the admid and demand some kind of refund.
Hi Courtney.. I just took responsibility for not asking or knowing my airplane. This is such a fast paced program, so much is left out. If you don't ask questions, or ask for help, you'll just fall behind. Also, who knows if the CFI even knew.. did his CFI tell him? Again, that's the downfall of this program. Appreciate you taking time.. thank you!
What are your thoughts on attending ATP vs another flight program? I live in DFW so there’s many schools around here, but ATP stands out as the largest pilot training outfit with a lot of connections to the regional airlines after the 1500 hr mark is attained. Not to mention the tuition reimbursement agreements in place. So it looks really solid from my perspective. I’m just starting my research into different schools and which would be best. I’m 25, have a bachelors in economics, have worked in desk jobs since graduating 3 years ago, and have decided to embark down the path of becoming a pilot. Any input regarding best places to attend flight school, research, or tips in general would be greatly appreciated! Keep up the good work on the vids!
Hey Trey, there are a lot of schools out there. I love Dallas, and was gonna go to the Addison location. Honestly, each school has its positives and negatives. Like you, I did tons of searching, but in the end, I chose ATP. Dallas has some options other then ATP, but check out their financing and cost structure. My advice would be to just get it done quickly. If you need more help, let me know. Also, let me know what you decide to do.
There is a Japanese saying in martial arts that loosely translate to "you need 3 master to perfect an art". Not sure of it is an option in the ATP program but I had 7 instructors leading to my PPL - definitely too many - but you should fly with several CFI , the DPE will just become another CFI on the left seat. Everyone teaches and learn differently, expose yourself to more "styles".
It seems to me that ATP has gone beyond the FAA part 141 syllabus and has designed a highly ridged, regimented, washout type program that is trying to mimic military pilot training. Not sure if this is good or bad thing? It may produce better aviators in certain circumstances, but at the same time this style of learning is defiantly not for everyone.
It can get overwhelming at times. Like, learning a new aircraft and systems, plus studying for your written and learning to fly. Appreciate your comment.
Gosh everytime I see Atp videos it makes me cringe. Didn’t have the best experience at that school. From my experience they don’t care and they send you on a checkride to “possibly” pass. ATP wants move you along the program so they can put more people in. I once told them I don’t think I’ll be ready to do a checkride in 2 weeks and the manager just told me to try. 🤔 By the way if an FAA guy hops in your ride you have the right to refuse that. One thing you can do too is start the plane, make the wheels move a bit, and then discontinue. If you do that the FAA guy won’t come back. Love the great attitude on this video tho. Wishing you blue skies and tailwinds. ❤️
Ed, I"m not subscribed to you, I follow a lot of aviation vloggers so this, and a couple of other ATP streams have come up. I'm interested in them because I'm interested in ATP as a school, so I'm watching. Having said that, I do hold my PPL, but I haven't flown in 40 years, at least as PIC. Gotta couple of questions for you. Does ATP always take off with full tanks in the Archer? When I was flying, I'd do some line boy stuff at the local airport, and the phrase 'fill it to the tabs' was a common one. IIRC, the Archer holds 50 gallons of fuel, 25 a side. I think the tabs were 12.5 gallons, or 15 gallons. For fuel management and weight and balance, that's a pretty common thing if you're flying with people on board. Next, you were talking about the 'stall strip.' Do you mean the stall switch? That's the little tab that sticks out of the front of the wing, and you SHOULD be moving it up and down to make sure it's free to move. If you have the Master switch on, and the vent window open, you should hear the stall warning come on and you move it up. I haven't looked at the POH in years, but I'm pretty sure that's indicated in the pre-flight checklist. Were you allowed to use your checklists, and if so, why weren't you? Finally, ATP didn't teach you about fouled plugs? I'm kind of surprised. Did they teach you about pulling back the mixture as you taxi out, if you have a long taxi? The full rich mixture is just that, 'rich' and without a lot of demand on the engine, the plugs can foul. That's a build up on the spark plugs of carbon that makes it difficult for the spark plug to fire. Airplane piston engines are set up differently, some mags set ups will fire all the top plugs, or all the bottoms, and others will fire one top, one bottom on one side, and one bottom and one top on the other side. It's usually the bottom plugs that foul. So, what the inspector was looking for was that on a long taxi, you might get a roughness on one side of the mag check, and what that means is that one or more of the plugs are fouled. To clear that fouling, power up the engine to maybe 2,000 RPM or so, and then lean the engine. You might have to switch the mags a couple of times, but usually just leaving it on the 'bad' mag side will clear it up. Does the Archer have an engine management display? Go take a look at this video from FlightChops, aka Steve Thorne. ruclips.net/video/3xbfwwuVBXE/видео.html In this video, he's getting checked out in the South African Sling 2, which is Rotax powered. You can start the video at 4:30, or watch it all the way through. A float in one of the carbs got stuck open, and flooded out two cylinders, and you can see the indications on the display, which shows the EGT and CHT. I don't know if the ATP fleet has that or not, but learning to use an EGT/CHT indicator is a VERY good thing to learn. Of course, ATP is training you for an Airlines job, but between the time you graduate and the time you can test for your ATP is going to be a while, and you're going to be doing a lot in between, and I'm sure you'll pick a lot of this small stuff up. Of course, Accelerated Courses, in anything, means you have an awful lot to pick up on your own, but that's the risk of that kind of school. I was an young (and very immature) 18 year-old when I took my check ride, but we did it in a Cessna 150, so no room for the FAA if indeed they had wanted to come along, but then I'm not sure we actually HAD DPEs back then, I think the FAA did it al. Okay, I've probably addled you brain a little bit, but when you go back for your next Check Ride, today is Monday, I'm sure you'll ace it. There's an 'ancient' Greek phrase that says 'non carborendum illigetimi.' Basically, it means 'Don't let the bastards wear you down!' If you get another FAA 'rider' along, which is doubtful, it's you and the DPE only, the other guy is baggage, and treat him like that. Sit there, listen, don't interrupt, stay quiet, watch. Talk to me afterwards if you need to. You'll do just fine on your next, and conseqeunt checkrides, Ed. This one will probably teach you a lot more than going through your PPL without it happening, so absorb it, and move on! By the way, I'm envious of you, you are persuing MY dream. I wish you the absolute best of luck, and just remember, there are people out here who would give a lot to be sitting in your seat!
Hi Gary, I would like to thank you for your message. I will definitely take an extensive view over everything. Also, thank you for sharing the video. So, we have checklist, and yes, I had mine in hand. The Archer doesn't have the fouled plug procedure, but our seminole does. Our fuel tabs are at 17 gal. I was talking about stall strips here is an article about them: www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aircraft-systems/stall-strips/ Again, thank you for such a great message. I truly am grateful to be here and fulfilling my lifelong dream on becoming a professional pilot. Take care
Hi Ed, I've never seen stall strips on any of the Piper Cherokee family, but as I said, it's been a very long time, so possibly they've been added in between the last time I've flown and now. Always making improvements, so I'm sure it's a good thing. Stay safe, keep on flying, keep on learning. You'll do great!.
Gary C You are required to use the checklists at all phases of fight where checklists are published. No memory work is allowed. Many GA and commercial aircraft have experienced in flight catastrophic failures due to the PIC's failure to use completely use checklists.
George, then why 'Memory Items'? Things that are taught to do by rote, without a checklist, because there is no time to get the checklist out. Can you provide me a FAR to back up your statement? I think it's wrong, but I challenge you to provide me the proof of your statement.
Awesome! I ended up passing and it went great! I opted out of CFI school so now I'm on the job hunt! Both Ravn Air in Alaska and Mesa Airlines has a Cadet Program for non CFI pilots
I’ve gotten out there did my run up testing my mags, one was fine, the second one killed the engine. That was a taxi back situation. Don’t feel bad about the bust. I think that was wrong that you had two examiners. That’s far too much stress.
I feel for you, Ed, but YOU did NOT bust that check ride. THEY did. Is the carbon removal cleaning technique for dealing with a bad mag check in the aircraft's POH/AFM? I've owned a couple of (1980s vintage) Piper PA-28s. The only thing relevant to the magneto check is the maximum allowable RPM drop (175) and RPM difference (+/- 50) between Left and Right mags. I just now checked the POH/AFM for an Archer III. Section 4-19 (Amplified Normal Procedures-Ground Check) has absolutely NO prescribed procedure for burning off carbon build-up. You should never get busted on your check ride for being conservative and following the manufacturer's official, written procedures. I almost busted my PPL check ride for answering the exact same question by telling the examiner (an FAA inspector, actually) that I would do a high-power burn-off as my instructor taught me. He asked me to show him the procedure in the POH. I couldn't. He didn't bust me but told me to always, always trust the POH. If I follow the POH and something bad happens, it isn't my fault. If I do something outside the POH and something bad happens, the liability is mine. Good advice. For years, I have taught my students what that experienced FAA inspector taught me: Know the procedures in the POH and follow them. Anything else, and the student has decided to become a test pilot. I know this was 6 years ago, and the pain of this for you has long passed, but if you have any contact with this DPE or the FAA guy who audited him, you might buy them a cup of coffee and then point out their error.
Yikes, Sounds like ATP not teach you as well as they should. They more than likely had the inspector to check the level of training of pilots to be. The three questions they asked, The fuel tabs ( Many times we only fill to the tabs - You need to know how much fuel that is), The stall strip on the wing and how to fix the mag. All three questions where basic. One of the reason I am not going to ATP for a crash course in flying.
I looked at the loan product for ATP and I saw DPE fees are separate. 0 to commercial cost 77k. When you include DPE it cost roughly 5k. Are DPEs employees of ATP or are the employees of FAA?
DPE's are not ATP or FAA employees. They are independent and regulated by the FAA. You can take a check ride for free with the FAA... but strongly advise not to do that. That's why ATP, and most places use DPE's. Hope that helps.
Ed Creed it took a lot of courage for you to post this video. You will teach many prospective and current students that anyone can easily bust on a check ride. You just taught a valuable lesson and to us stay on our toes. Thank you
I wanted to become a pilot since I was 7 after flying on A310 and B727 but did't have money after high school and no one wanted to help me, slowly I started to forget aviation and totally lost my interest Today Im 36 and sometimes I feel that I want to become a pilot just to feel that I achieved my childhood dream but I just dont have any love for aviation anymore. When I was 19 back in 2003 I watched a video about A380 and I was soooo excited by just watching that video but last May I flow on A380 three times and I didnt feel anything! same for B787! I was a plane spotter, collected safety cards and Timetables (my mom throw away some of my early collection😭) still have my TWA timetable and PanAm B747-sp model 🙈 What do you think? Im single but suffer from a health problem (Hashimoto) and memory problems and when I see people like you I just feel that I want to be a pilot BTW, I lost my respect for pilots and cabin crews after seeing rudeness and disrespect toward passengers on many long flights. I will be paying it from my savings and credit cards and may be I will never get a job as a pilot. US$85K is a A LOT of money here!
Ed, which program is best for employability as a pilot. Do most students who finish the program get successfully get employed as pilot in any sector. Is wanted to be pilot and am 37 years now,. Would appreciate your feedback
Hey Ed! I’ve really been looking into pursuing a professional airline job. I wanted to out high school(I’m 24 now) but my parents wanted me to go into college and swayed me from looking more into it. I’ve started to get the itch for flying again and being in a professional career for 5 years I would be able to find a way to partly pay and finance myself through this. I have a question if you get time to read this, since you said you failed the flight test portion what happens? Do you owe more money? Does your time in school get extended? Are you allowed a certain amount of retakes? Thanks for reading! I look forward to hearing back from you!
Hi Zach, My new CR was done yesterday 5/16, but then had to be discontinued due to weather.. I got everything done except soft field landing and short field landing. Maybe today? I'm currently on standby. I don't believe ATP will kick you out if you are doing what it takes to rectify. However, I honestly don't know, and don't want to say the wrong thing. I would ask ATP corporate that question. However, always do your best, and don't think negatively. If you need to do a recheck, you will have to pay again; however, it won't usually be the full amount as you paid for the first take. That being said, each DPE is different, so you will have to ask them. Thank you so much for watching and your comments.
So, I did everything except soft field landing and short field landing. I was discontinued due to weather. Maybe today? I'm currently on standby. It went well though thank you for asking.
I really want to become an airline pilot. I already have a college degree in finance at a top rated business school. I’m definitely weighing my options. I think I could put together the money and I don’t want the easiest route to get to the airlines but I want the best quality of education that will get me to the airlines. Any suggestions on which route to go? I’m still doing my research on the different paths.
Brother…you are wrong about this….you are being REAL and TRUE to yourself. You are facing your mistakes but not only that…it sounds like you got set up. This doesn’t seem like it’s entirely on you. Additionally ATP is notorious for rushing people through their own programs….and those questions that were asked seem a little ridiculous….this seems like a shite show….don’t let this be a setback. Just learn from it. And you’re right you can’t know everything so your answer should be or to know where to look it up. DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP OVER THIS…just learn from your mistakes and know this is a non standard situation….combination of an accelerated program and a non standard situation of two people getting a check ride at the same time.
I’m not buying your story! How could anyone be wrong with taxing back to the hanger to get the magneto’s looked at. No way would that be a fail. Are you just trying to make ATP flight school look bad!
Ed Creed - Base2Final I would of never guest that, lol thought you were younger, great videos I enjoyed, your content, one love from Fort Lauderdale FL.
NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING BOUT KEEPING IT 💯 I'm tired of people posting perfect pics on their social media all the time. No one's life is life that. I give you more respect man. 👏👏👏
Hang in there... When I did my check ride, the guy was like 75 years old and I swear was suffering from dementia. Not only that, this guy spent 3 hours beating me up on the Q&A portion and I could barely answer 1 question out of 20. He looked at me and asked how I made a 92% on the exam because I couldn't answer ONE question. My response... "If my life didn't depend on it, I could answer every damn question in the book!" He busted out laughing... after the Q&A portion was done, I left the room...looked at my CFI sitting on the couch and told her I just left the rink with the Mike Tyson of FAA Examiners! They both busted out laughing. Needless to say, I busted on my soft field and short field landings. When we taxi'd to the FBO building he asked me how I thought I did, and I said..."that sucked pretty bad". Best part of this story.... I'm thinking this guy is going to eat me alive because he tore me up verbally while we were in the air. I'm a pretty stocky guy and I don't put up with BS from people, but that day I was all...."Yes Sir, No Sir". We go into the conference room to de-brief and he looks at me and says.."Mr. Werner, you did one hell of a good job and you will make a great Pilot". I about fell off my chair. Although I busted on two landings, he said that he was seeing how far he could push me mentally. The fact I kept my cool, was quite impressive. I laughed..I said..."you had NO idea how bad I wanted to throw you through a window".... He said.."oh, yes I did but I was impressed with your positive attitude which caused me to push you more". Two days later I finished my two landings to get my license. He was THE nicest examiner I'd ever met.... Moral of the story is HANG in there, and in two years you will look back and laugh, along with have a funny story to tell :) Kurt
What's rough about aviation training is the questions are random the next guy could come through knowing the same amount or less than you and not be asked those questions and pass with flying colors.. just the way it goes. Take it on the chin, keep learning and pushing guys
Thanks for sharing your experience Ed . We are all products of our training department and ATP bears the greater burden for you not knowing the answers to the questions or at least teaching you to say i don’t know but lets look it up. It’s amazing that your examiner doesn’t know for sure what’s required to continue. Good examiners / instructors/ line check airmen know how to give you a little help here and there pointing out what you did wrong but always pointing out your positive points and what you did right so they don’t leave you beat down. Keep going you have the right stuff. Capt. Envoy Airlines .31 years 33,000 hours
John Conway Oh trust me John I agree as I am a victim to the industry as well. Let me clarify, Overall I believe 80 is excessive. I currently have 58 hours under my belt and I’m just getting ready to do dual cross country with my instructor. Unfortunately I’ve been to two different flight schools in the first one I had to start learning in a different aircraft than the one that I started with and then when I switch flight schools I went to a third aircraft which is typically unusual for most students. Learning in three different planes during the course of my training has provided versatility but it has held me back. I am beginning to truly believe that excessive number of flight hours up into the 60 to 80 range is a systemic problem in the industry bordering on epidemic However it is still considered an average range by groups such as the Aopa and FAA.
Just started ATP on Monday so I appreciate your honestly. Nothing to feel bad about when you fall you pick yourself up and try again. Take it one day at a time! Keep the awesome videos going I'm following your progress as I'll be there soon :)
Yes it does get better I been flying seen I was 11 year old haven’t stop .i have flown around the Caribbean off corse the USA .an don’t regret anything. One thing I wish I did was get my IFR ticket but never did .so don’t stop there. Get some fly X country flying and go for your IFR ticket.wish you all the best fly safe always check your weather and fuel before you fly. And don’t rush enjoy every minute off it.😀😀😀😀👨🏼✈️
When you graduate, and you WILL graduate, start looking for companies that do charters to the Carribean. You'll build your hours, and get to fly down there. With the pilot shortage, and there is no doubt there IS a pilot shortage, within a year or 18 months, you could be doing that. It's an option.
Isnt PRESSURE part of being a GOOD pilot? Not to knock this guy , I get that maybe the FAA was on board - but If a pilot is nervous about a CHECKLIST because someone in authority you didnt expect is watching you - what happens if you ARE flying a 707 FULL OF PASSENGERS and there is an uncontrolled fire ? Engine goes out during take off?? Does everyone die because there is too much pressure?!? "An ordinary airline pilot reacts-A GREAT airline pilot predicts"
Hello Ed, I am trying to get into ATP. Do you think location matters when signing up for classes? I am in VA right now. I was Thinking about Texas or Florida because of better flying weather (I am willing to travel anywhere its worth it). I saw you are in NC. Do you face weather-related issues? And how often compared to any other location? Also, should I consider the locations equipped with "new" G-500 Archers or Seminoles? Does that give me an advantage? Thank you very much!
That question was double sided in a way. Honestly, in my opinion, having an issue with your aircraft and not exactly knowing what the fault is on the ground, shoot id taxi it back and ask my mechanic/instructor only for him to tell me oh its probably the carbon buildup on the spark plugs. Aren't we taught as pilots if we don't feel safe to fly then don't. The proper answer would be to do as you said Ed, if the issue persists take it back. But its weird because what if this never happened to you and your instructor as a pilot. How would you know that this could be the issue? As a student pilot for my PPL my answer would have been the same as yours. But now I know it is not. I will pay closer attention to details in my studies. Thank you for the information and good luck with your next check ride.
Alex Francis Thanks Alex. As pilots, we are always learning. I’m working on IFR now and am enjoying it so far. It’s a bit different, and flying through clouds has some weird effects at first.
Marin Delgado I’ve questioned myself several times throughout this program already. Just like your comment, I’ve been told it gets better. Appreciate your comment, thank you.
Ed, if it was easy, EVERYBODY would be doing it. Some night, as grizzled old Captain Creed is sitting in the left seat of his modern Boeing whatever, with one shut down, on a dark and stormy night to minimums, you might look back on this and chuckle to yourself. Your co-pilot will be ashen and white faced, and will wonder if you're crazy or not, but as you touch the wheels down in the middle of the runway right where you need to be, and taxi to the gate, you can reflect back on this busted checkride, and your concerns that you might not make it, and here, you've just landing a jet liner with one engine out, 300 passengers in the back who had no idea because it was just an 'uneventful flight' to them.
I admire your honesty in sharing a "not so great" day that you experienced. Even though you received an unsat, you'll still learned a lot. Keep pecking away at it, it's worth it!!!
Thanks! This was a difficult video to make. I wanted to tell everyone that I made it, but hey didn't make it. I think in a way, it helped me in a way. Thank you for reaching out!
Hey Ed Creed, I am now 2 weeks into the ATP program here in Chicago. I want to preface by saying that I don’t want to sound “complacent” but your honesty and reality is an awesomely refreshing change of pace and it makes me feel more comfortable with how my program will go. Thanks for keeping it real.
Can anybody tell me if you need an associates degree to get into ATP’s program? Because on their website it says you don’t need one, but I called them and on the phone they said you DO need one
It’s very nice from you by being sincere about what happened in your checkride. These are things that people normally never talk. Failing a checkride doesn’t mean that you don’t know your thing. It’s a way to learn (the tough way unfortunately) about things you don’t know. The best thing about this experience is that you’ll never forget these questions made by the DPE. I can imagine how hard was for you dealing with two people inside the airplane. If you have another checkride similar to your previous one, invent an excuse and discontinue. That way you can save yourself and your pocket. Wish you the best my friend. By the way, you shouldn’t say about the gauge since it can create a big problem at ATP. Greetings from KILG.
Hey Luis, So, hindsight being 20/20, I should've discontinued, but I learned what not to do. My CR is tomorrow 5/16 Just been hitting the books and chair flying. Thanks for saying hi, and hope to see you around out there.
Hey man go out there and kill it, you got this. You got hit with some hard questions. My DPE actually taught me the mag cleaning thing DURING the exam. Shit happens, pulled the short straw, learn from it and move on. I have no doubt you will pass on your second attempt, the flying is the easy part haha. Good luck!
Hey, thanks for saying hi and the encouragement! Weather has been crazy here for the last couple days. My CR was canceled, but then went to VFR.. so hurried out to meet the DPE. Got over there, and did everything except soft field landing and short field landing. Maybe today? I'm currently on standby. Almost done!! Thanks for watching.
![[Limbus Company - Teaser] Season5 - Oblivion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8anKuEeZLeI/mqdefault.jpg)
Being a 4-year old video, this is more for the recent viewers and still relevant. Thanks for posting. Everyone can learn from this. Don't feel bad. The "bust" was mostly from "chicken shit" stuff (yes, that's the term we use). Your DPE was way too conservative and more concerned for his "check ride". Usually, DPE's getting a "check ride" from the FAA will make things as easy as possible for you so they have an easy decision to pass you. This guy took the easy way out and busted you for some very minor areas. If you took the plane back for a bad mag check, you pass. Trying to fix a marginal mag check with a lean run-up should have been a debrief item. If you know how much fuel you have, that's all that matters. Unfortunately, low time CFI's don't know everything. But they should know what the DPE is going to ask. Previous students usually fill out a "Gouge Book" and debrief everything that happened on their check ride. Your video will go a long way towards helping others. I have over 25,000 hrs in over 40 years of Air Force, Airline and GA flying, and probably on the order of over 100 check rides under my belt. Biplanes to the biggest Boeing's, gliders to supersonic jets, and my pulse rate still goes up on check rides. One of my Air Force Squadrons Check Section (pilot examiners) had a sign that read, "The Greatest Fool Can Ask More Than The Wisest Man Can Answer". Meaning that even the best pilot doesn't know everything. I'm still learning, and I'm a major airline senior Captain (or as my FO's say, I'm a captain and a senior citizen:) Put it behind you and press on. Don't sweat the small stuff. Have a beer and enjoy the journey. You're getting in at a great time.
You will make it far. Admitting our own shortcomings is often times one of the hardest things to do. I failed my instrument oral twice, and my instrument FTD once and now work for a US Legacy carrier. Keep up the good work and don’t let this little hiccup get you. Good luck!
Yea, I have moments when I wonder if I'm doing the right thing? Iv'e heard that is called flight training. I'm a bit nervous about the flight portion now.. mostly emergency procedures and remembering them quickly. Anyway, thanks for taking time to comment.
At 42 years of age, I just finished my career in law enforcement and currently looking to start the next career phase in my life. Thanks for sharing.
wow. I've applied to my city PD, and after that im planning on flying. Work as a software developer at the moment. not liking it :/
I know this is 3 years old, but I'm retiring after 30 from pd. Start flying soon
@@americantrailrider7031 Training funded by the taxpayer can't beat it .
@@sarahann530police get payed like shit
@user-it6uu1ej6c It takes more school to be a hairstylost than a cop , they get paid 80 to 100k in City PFs and 20 years and then 80% pension. . That's not shit .
Keep studying man. As someone who also went through ATP, I know the stress. One word of advice I would have is to study per the ACS rather than a gouge. Gouges are a great supplement to help you prepare but I feel ATP focuses on these gouges too much and should focus more on the ACS. The ACS is a blueprint of your check ride. Every examiner I ever took a ride with used the ACS (or PTS) during the check ride. If they fail you for something that isn't listed in the ACS, then you have something to complain about. Also, know your checklists completely. There should be a checklist for a fouled spark plug on one of your checklists (not sure for the Archer as I trained in a Cessna). If you don't know what one of those checklists is for, ask your instructor. Most importantly, don't get down on yourself for this bust. You seem to have the right attitude about it which is good. Just study hard on everything that the flight portion could bring and go knock it out of the park when you recheck. Good luck to you man!
Thank Gabe. I definitely study the ACS book and would recommend that everyone does the same. At the end of the day, you have to be prepared and know your stuff. Shortcuts are never going to work in this program, at least not for long. The Archer doesn't have that checklist btw. It's all good now, I learned how to truly prepare for a checkride, and will do better as I progress. Thank you for taking time to message me. Take care!
You may not know now but these types of videos and stories will help soo many people and yourself in the future. I busted a
commercial checkride and it sucked for awhile, but then a few weeks later a fellow student came up to me saying he passed his checkride by avoiding the pitfalls that took me down. Instantly I realized the impact that sharing your failures has on others. Koodos to you sir, you will go far.
f3nd13y I appreciate you saying that. Some of my peers were saying the same thing. I did pass as of 5/18 so I’m officially a private pilot. As you know, it starts all over now. Thank you so much for watching and your words.
congrats again on passing your check ride but can you make a video about it?
Don't get discouraged man. It is really easy to do that when a bust happens. They really are not a big deal as long as they are learned from. I am a commercial pilot and taking my CFI ride in about 3 weeks. I have a friend who failed his PPL, his IFR ride, and his CPL. Yet, hes still at it and is now holds his CPL and going for his CFI. The airlines will ask you about the failures and make sure you know why you failed and that you are now knowledgeable in the failed areas and are competent. No worries. study hard, stay calm in the check ride. If you know your stuff going in, there is no reason to be super nervous (you of course will be nervous but don't doubt yourself!! Think positive and vision walking out of the checkride with your rating. That is what I did and it seriously kept me from self doubt!). Im ready for the CFI, honestly think the checkride will be fun. Keep at it!
Ross Crichlow Good luck and crush it! Thanks Ross. I will be making another vid in a few days, but just passed my IFR yesterday 7/18. First attempt and got my ticket. Still was nervous, but studied and came in confident. Thanks for the help. Let me know how ya do!
awesome man congrats. I gotta get brushed up on my IFR material for CFII. If you can pass that IFR, commercial will be a breeze and a ton of fun soloing around for 50 hours. I'll keep in touch. I fly out of KLAL
I'm looking into ATP, and trying to get as many perspectives as possible. I'm kinda worried I won't do well. But I just want to say, I really appreciate the honest and realistic approach in your videos. Please keep this up, and keep us posted. Thanks alot man!
I have a lot of respect for you... never give up... get out there next week and do your thing ✊
Thank you. I will take this as a learning experience and do better.
Hey buddy, I have the utmost respect for you my friend...!!!! Trust me, you are going to go over and beyond in your flying career because of your positive attitude..You will do fine the next time around.. You're probably already a Private Pilot now... It's August... All of us in the comment section are rooting for you...So dust yourself off and get right back out there...!!!!! Let us know how you did...Take care, Good luck to you....
I was at ATP, I'm an MEI, CFI-I, CFI-SE; and it happens to EVERYONE who makes a career in aviation... so get used to it. I busted my PP in 2003 (and not my only bust). It's not a big deal and don't be too hard on yourself. The checkride jitters are legit, and you are 100% right-on to learn from it, and move forward! Keep charging forward and learning. Godspeed!
And I bet you that FAA guy weighs about 240?!
Ohhhhhh That was a whole other thing that I didn't even mention. The FAA guy was 250lbs and we were overweight by 30lbs. But since I flew 35 min to get there and could take out a case of oil and my flight bag.. well..hmmmm. smh ;/
Oh, seriously? Chance blown! I would have said to the FAA guy, I'm sorry, you tip the scales, you can't fly with us! There would have been NOTHING he could have done about that! :D :D :p )
This is very honest of you. I've noticed that a lot of ATP students will stop updating us after a busted checkride. Best of luck and thank you! After busting a checkride, what is ATPs policy when it comes to dropping a student?
I'm not sure honestly? I just know the school and instructors really want you to succeed. I think if someone works on doing their best, it will speak volumes.
ATP won't drop you for busting checkrides. I believe the only thing is that if you bust on 3 or more checkrides, they don't guarantee you an instructor job with ATP upon completing the program.
@@pdxlife
Oh
If u bust the same checkride twice, you’re out
Also if you mess up on the same ATP eval twice, you get dropped
@@Jacob99. do you get a partial refund?
Instrument rating checkride, same situation. It seems like everything is much more extreme when the feds are with you. I'm glad I saw this.
Thanks for posting! I know it takes a lot but it’s so good to get some real-life experience. I just busted my mock checkride yesterday with my school. It hurts to feel like a crappy student pilot but I think sometimes the stars align and all the wrong questions are asked. We only come out stronger from our failures 💪🏼
Don't worry. The dpe and I could not start the airplane. Rescheduled the check ride. On second check ride he tells me the fuel selector was shut off on the first airplane.
Ends up it had just returned from maintenance.
Neither one of us caught it!
Everyone gets check rides. I was getting my CFI Glider renewed and they sent a new FAA examiner down to do it. He was an ex-navy pilot and had just qualified on gliders in a trainer and they wanted me to check him out in a high performance ship. I had mentioned stalls and spins and he said they didn't do spins on check rides. I had him going through a normal series of stalls then talked him into an inverted spin out of a slow skidding turn. He recovered afer a couple turns, looked back at me and said, "You knew that was going to happen." I replied, "Yes, but you didn't and that's the main thing." Later in debriefing he told me that his first thought was to bust me but then realized that I'd done exactly what he needed.
Yep, its about judgment. Remember, you're PIC.
3 hours of solo pattern work in one flight is way too much for a new student. And don’t beat yourself up for failing a checkride. Ultimately it’s a relevant, it’s logged as training and you just go back and do another one. I personally failed two. My fixed wing Private, and my Commercial Helicopter. Both were due to the jitters. I studied my ass off, and was very well prepared, but there’s just something about flying with an examiner that gets me all shook up, and I test horribly. I’m overly critical of myself, and when I make a minor mistake on the check ride, I tend to obsess over it in my head to the point where it ruins the rest of my check ride. However, that being said, I went back and passed them all fine. I got my private pilot rating in airplanes and a commercial and instrument rating in helicopters after doing a private pilot add-on in helicopters. A failed check ride is just like a failed flight review, you log it as training and you come back to try again.
Appreciate you taking time to comment. This program is so fast paced, but glad i' m getting everything done.
you are a great guy, learn from your mistakes and you will become a successful pilot. Keep us updated on your check ride man
Thank you. I have my re check May16th. Ill keep ya updated. Thanks again.
Great Video. I'm studying to become a CFI and it's overwhelming a lot of information and most people bust the checkride. Thank you, when you get knocked down its about how quick you get up. You seem very motivated keep up good work ! Private is license to learn. Not to know everything ! Remember this when you become CFI if you choose that route
Thanks Robert! I am going CFI route. I will keep plugging away. Thanks for watching.
I think everyone can agree that an FAA Examiner on a checkride is a nightmare scenario. I'm glad to see in your other videos success in the industry.
Keep it going man. It happened to me but i finally passed it. Remember you learn from your mistakes. I surely did learn from it.
Keep up the good work man! Checkrides are always nerve racking. You'll get it done next time!
Much appreciated. Thank you so much!
Don’t worry about it. I busted my IFR check ride because of missed approach. Just keep moving forward.
Here’s my problem...assuming you answered taxi back and get it checked out...that’s not a wrong answer and certainly not something to bust on. As PIC you make the call. Taxiing back is the right thing to do if you don’t know how to attempt to decarbon the plugs.
Thanks for being honest!
This I think is a major shortcoming of integrated fast paced programs. Lacks detail and forces you down a pipeline. But stress is a major part...if that stress affected you to the level you perceived then that is something you must work on before it affects flight safety. The items you had difficulty with I didn’t learn through flight instruction...it was supplemented materials and POH. If I may suggest: subscribe to The Finer Points. Jason Miller has podcasts of immense value.
Please tell us ... 1) what materials (books, etc) were you studying to gain the knowledge at this stage - Gleim books, Jeppesen books, what?
And, 2) do you feel that your CFI ought to have drilled more of that information into your brain before the exam?
Thank you.
I was also educated on how to troubleshoot a rough mag by a DPE. Luckily we were not on a checkride and he was not acting as a DPE at the time because I had no clue.
I was sweating bullets on my checkride but it was one of my best flights so far. Everything just worked out.
Dude, this isn't your fault, it's your instructors fault. It's the instructors responsibility to show you the tabs in the fuel tanks and the stall tabs and to show you how to fix the mag problem. I'm assuming that he didn't since you said that you had no idea what they were. I would go to the admid and demand some kind of refund.
Hi Courtney.. I just took responsibility for not asking or knowing my airplane. This is such a fast paced program, so much is left out. If you don't ask questions, or ask for help, you'll just fall behind. Also, who knows if the CFI even knew.. did his CFI tell him? Again, that's the downfall of this program. Appreciate you taking time.. thank you!
Thanks for the honesty. Subscribed!
I swear this is my worst nightmare... I only have 21 hours rn but worry this will happen on my checkride
What if you said you did not want to fly with 2 people grading you? That must have been nerve racking.
What are your thoughts on attending ATP vs another flight program? I live in DFW so there’s many schools around here, but ATP stands out as the largest pilot training outfit with a lot of connections to the regional airlines after the 1500 hr mark is attained. Not to mention the tuition reimbursement agreements in place. So it looks really solid from my perspective. I’m just starting my research into different schools and which would be best. I’m 25, have a bachelors in economics, have worked in desk jobs since graduating 3 years ago, and have decided to embark down the path of becoming a pilot. Any input regarding best places to attend flight school, research, or tips in general would be greatly appreciated! Keep up the good work on the vids!
Hey Trey, there are a lot of schools out there. I love Dallas, and was gonna go to the Addison location. Honestly, each school has its positives and negatives. Like you, I did tons of searching, but in the end, I chose ATP. Dallas has some options other then ATP, but check out their financing and cost structure. My advice would be to just get it done quickly. If you need more help, let me know. Also, let me know what you decide to do.
There is a Japanese saying in martial arts that loosely translate to "you need 3 master to perfect an art". Not sure of it is an option in the ATP program but I had 7 instructors leading to my PPL - definitely too many - but you should fly with several CFI , the DPE will just become another CFI on the left seat. Everyone teaches and learn differently, expose yourself to more "styles".
Keep going.... This is significantly learning for next step. You always will be in front someone else.
It seems to me that ATP has gone beyond the FAA part 141 syllabus and has designed a highly ridged, regimented, washout type program that is trying to mimic military pilot training. Not sure if this is good or bad thing? It may produce better aviators in certain circumstances, but at the same time this style of learning is defiantly not for everyone.
It can get overwhelming at times. Like, learning a new aircraft and systems, plus studying for your written and learning to fly. Appreciate your comment.
Gosh everytime I see Atp videos it makes me cringe. Didn’t have the best experience at that school.
From my experience they don’t care and they send you on a checkride to “possibly” pass. ATP wants move you along the program so they can put more people in. I once told them I don’t think I’ll be ready to do a checkride in 2 weeks and the manager just told me to try. 🤔
By the way if an FAA guy hops in your ride you have the right to refuse that. One thing you can do too is start the plane, make the wheels move a bit, and then discontinue. If you do that the FAA guy won’t come back.
Love the great attitude on this video tho. Wishing you blue skies and tailwinds. ❤️
Great video, these life lessons are always the toughest.
Truly appreciate the honesty! Thank you.
watching this after 4 years wonder where you at flying?
Thank you for sharing this. You will ace the next one, no doubt. You got this Ed!!
Thanks so much Christina! Appreciate your comment and you reaching out!
Ed, I"m not subscribed to you, I follow a lot of aviation vloggers so this, and a couple of other ATP streams have come up. I'm interested in them because I'm interested in ATP as a school, so I'm watching.
Having said that, I do hold my PPL, but I haven't flown in 40 years, at least as PIC.
Gotta couple of questions for you. Does ATP always take off with full tanks in the Archer? When I was flying, I'd do some line boy stuff at the local airport, and the phrase 'fill it to the tabs' was a common one. IIRC, the Archer holds 50 gallons of fuel, 25 a side. I think the tabs were 12.5 gallons, or 15 gallons. For fuel management and weight and balance, that's a pretty common thing if you're flying with people on board.
Next, you were talking about the 'stall strip.' Do you mean the stall switch? That's the little tab that sticks out of the front of the wing, and you SHOULD be moving it up and down to make sure it's free to move. If you have the Master switch on, and the vent window open, you should hear the stall warning come on and you move it up. I haven't looked at the POH in years, but I'm pretty sure that's indicated in the pre-flight checklist. Were you allowed to use your checklists, and if so, why weren't you?
Finally, ATP didn't teach you about fouled plugs? I'm kind of surprised. Did they teach you about pulling back the mixture as you taxi out, if you have a long taxi? The full rich mixture is just that, 'rich' and without a lot of demand on the engine, the plugs can foul. That's a build up on the spark plugs of carbon that makes it difficult for the spark plug to fire. Airplane piston engines are set up differently, some mags set ups will fire all the top plugs, or all the bottoms, and others will fire one top, one bottom on one side, and one bottom and one top on the other side. It's usually the bottom plugs that foul.
So, what the inspector was looking for was that on a long taxi, you might get a roughness on one side of the mag check, and what that means is that one or more of the plugs are fouled. To clear that fouling, power up the engine to maybe 2,000 RPM or so, and then lean the engine. You might have to switch the mags a couple of times, but usually just leaving it on the 'bad' mag side will clear it up.
Does the Archer have an engine management display? Go take a look at this video from FlightChops, aka Steve Thorne.
ruclips.net/video/3xbfwwuVBXE/видео.html
In this video, he's getting checked out in the South African Sling 2, which is Rotax powered. You can start the video at 4:30, or watch it all the way through. A float in one of the carbs got stuck open, and flooded out two cylinders, and you can see the indications on the display, which shows the EGT and CHT. I don't know if the ATP fleet has that or not, but learning to use an EGT/CHT indicator is a VERY good thing to learn.
Of course, ATP is training you for an Airlines job, but between the time you graduate and the time you can test for your ATP is going to be a while, and you're going to be doing a lot in between, and I'm sure you'll pick a lot of this small stuff up.
Of course, Accelerated Courses, in anything, means you have an awful lot to pick up on your own, but that's the risk of that kind of school.
I was an young (and very immature) 18 year-old when I took my check ride, but we did it in a Cessna 150, so no room for the FAA if indeed they had wanted to come along, but then I'm not sure we actually HAD DPEs back then, I think the FAA did it al.
Okay, I've probably addled you brain a little bit, but when you go back for your next Check Ride, today is Monday, I'm sure you'll ace it. There's an 'ancient' Greek phrase that says 'non carborendum illigetimi.' Basically, it means 'Don't let the bastards wear you down!' If you get another FAA 'rider' along, which is doubtful, it's you and the DPE only, the other guy is baggage, and treat him like that. Sit there, listen, don't interrupt, stay quiet, watch. Talk to me afterwards if you need to. You'll do just fine on your next, and conseqeunt checkrides, Ed. This one will probably teach you a lot more than going through your PPL without it happening, so absorb it, and move on!
By the way, I'm envious of you, you are persuing MY dream. I wish you the absolute best of luck, and just remember, there are people out here who would give a lot to be sitting in your seat!
Hi Gary, I would like to thank you for your message. I will definitely take an extensive view over everything. Also, thank you for sharing the video. So, we have checklist, and yes, I had mine in hand. The Archer doesn't have the fouled plug procedure, but our seminole does. Our fuel tabs are at 17 gal.
I was talking about stall strips here is an article about them: www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aircraft-systems/stall-strips/
Again, thank you for such a great message. I truly am grateful to be here and fulfilling my lifelong dream on becoming a professional pilot. Take care
Hi Ed, I've never seen stall strips on any of the Piper Cherokee family, but as I said, it's been a very long time, so possibly they've been added in between the last time I've flown and now. Always making improvements, so I'm sure it's a good thing.
Stay safe, keep on flying, keep on learning. You'll do great!.
Gary C You are required to use the checklists at all phases of fight where checklists are published. No memory work is allowed. Many GA and commercial aircraft have experienced in flight catastrophic failures due to the PIC's failure to use completely use checklists.
George, then why 'Memory Items'? Things that are taught to do by rote, without a checklist, because there is no time to get the checklist out.
Can you provide me a FAR to back up your statement? I think it's wrong, but I challenge you to provide me the proof of your statement.
Excellent sharing this with us.. Im sure it will help others ... Thanks..
Just about to finish my Comm Single Engine add-on tomorrow through ATP. Keep it up, PM me if you need any help. That goes for all you guys!
Blake Knoll Hey Blake. I’m sure you did great. I just got done with my time build.. had a great time going to the Outerbanks. Thanks for the help.
Awesome! I ended up passing and it went great! I opted out of CFI school so now I'm on the job hunt! Both Ravn Air in Alaska and Mesa Airlines has a Cadet Program for non CFI pilots
hey man, just wondering what company youre at these days?
Failure will make you stronger
Appreciate those words AJ.. thanks man!
I’ve gotten out there did my run up testing my mags, one was fine, the second one killed the engine. That was a taxi back situation. Don’t feel bad about the bust. I think that was wrong that you had two examiners. That’s far too much stress.
Im just starting. As in compass test just starting. How difficult is the compass test? Is there a way to study for it?
I feel for you, Ed, but YOU did NOT bust that check ride. THEY did.
Is the carbon removal cleaning technique for dealing with a bad mag check in the aircraft's POH/AFM? I've owned a couple of (1980s vintage) Piper PA-28s. The only thing relevant to the magneto check is the maximum allowable RPM drop (175) and RPM difference (+/- 50) between Left and Right mags. I just now checked the POH/AFM for an Archer III. Section 4-19 (Amplified Normal Procedures-Ground Check) has absolutely NO prescribed procedure for burning off carbon build-up. You should never get busted on your check ride for being conservative and following the manufacturer's official, written procedures.
I almost busted my PPL check ride for answering the exact same question by telling the examiner (an FAA inspector, actually) that I would do a high-power burn-off as my instructor taught me. He asked me to show him the procedure in the POH. I couldn't. He didn't bust me but told me to always, always trust the POH. If I follow the POH and something bad happens, it isn't my fault. If I do something outside the POH and something bad happens, the liability is mine. Good advice.
For years, I have taught my students what that experienced FAA inspector taught me: Know the procedures in the POH and follow them. Anything else, and the student has decided to become a test pilot.
I know this was 6 years ago, and the pain of this for you has long passed, but if you have any contact with this DPE or the FAA guy who audited him, you might buy them a cup of coffee and then point out their error.
Yikes, Sounds like ATP not teach you as well as they should. They more than likely had the inspector to check the level of training of pilots to be. The three questions they asked, The fuel tabs ( Many times we only fill to the tabs - You need to know how much fuel that is), The stall strip on the wing and how to fix the mag. All three questions where basic. One of the reason I am not going to ATP for a crash course in flying.
I looked at the loan product for ATP and I saw DPE fees are separate. 0 to commercial cost 77k. When you include DPE it cost roughly 5k. Are DPEs employees of ATP or are the employees of FAA?
alessio272 good question...
DPE's are not ATP or FAA employees. They are independent and regulated by the FAA. You can take a check ride for free with the FAA... but strongly advise not to do that. That's why ATP, and most places use DPE's. Hope that helps.
Ed Creed it took a lot of courage for you to post this video. You will teach many prospective and current students that anyone can easily bust on a check ride. You just taught a valuable lesson and to us stay on our toes.
Thank you
How about an update? Its been a year, where are doing now?
It takes gumption and wisdom to disclose your shortcomings. Only great men do that.
I have had students who came from ATP to get their CFI certificates, There were some good ones but overall I wasn't impressed with ATP
I wanted to become a pilot since I was 7 after flying on A310 and B727 but did't have money after high school and no one wanted to help me, slowly I started to forget aviation and totally lost my interest
Today Im 36 and sometimes I feel that I want to become a pilot just to feel that I achieved my childhood dream but I just dont have any love for aviation anymore.
When I was 19 back in 2003 I watched a video about A380 and I was soooo excited by just watching that video but last May I flow on A380 three times and I didnt feel anything! same for B787!
I was a plane spotter, collected safety cards and Timetables (my mom throw away some of my early collection😭) still have my TWA timetable and PanAm B747-sp model 🙈
What do you think? Im single but suffer from a health problem (Hashimoto) and memory problems and when I see people like you I just feel that I want to be a pilot
BTW, I lost my respect for pilots and cabin crews after seeing rudeness and disrespect toward passengers on many long flights.
I will be paying it from my savings and credit cards and may be I will never get a job as a pilot. US$85K is a A LOT of money here!
Whoaa.....The DPE and a FAA inspector......I'm requesting a discontinuance...
Thank you fir sharing your experience! Is it possible to maintain a PT job while attending ATP?
hello ed
did u give up flying
i dont see any edward or edgar creed on faa database
as a pilot
not your fault, who signed you off? They have some explaining to do.
Ed, which program is best for employability as a pilot. Do most students who finish the program get successfully get employed as pilot in any sector.
Is wanted to be pilot and am 37 years now,. Would appreciate your feedback
I GIVE YOU ALL RESPECT BECAUSE YOU’RE BEING REAL.
Really appreciate that.. thank you.
Hey Ed! I’ve really been looking into pursuing a professional airline job. I wanted to out high school(I’m 24 now) but my parents wanted me to go into college and swayed me from looking more into it.
I’ve started to get the itch for flying again and being in a professional career for 5 years I would be able to find a way to partly pay and finance myself through this.
I have a question if you get time to read this, since you said you failed the flight test portion what happens?
Do you owe more money? Does your time in school get extended? Are you allowed a certain amount of retakes?
Thanks for reading! I look forward to hearing back from you!
Hi Zach, My new CR was done yesterday 5/16, but then had to be discontinued due to weather.. I got everything done except soft field landing and short field landing. Maybe today? I'm currently on standby. I don't believe ATP will kick you out if you are doing what it takes to rectify. However, I honestly don't know, and don't want to say the wrong thing. I would ask ATP corporate that question. However, always do your best, and don't think negatively.
If you need to do a recheck, you will have to pay again; however, it won't usually be the full amount as you paid for the first take. That being said, each DPE is different, so you will have to ask them.
Thank you so much for watching and your comments.
I busted mine a few weeks ago too man. I was so nervous I didn't even make it out of the oral portion. My retake is May 21st.
I have mine on the 16th now. Good luck to you. At least you know what to expect. You can do it!
Ed Creed awesome man good luck to you too. I've been definitely hitting the books hard lately.
That's all you can do! Keep me updated on how it goes.
Ed Creed well......how’d it go??
So, I did everything except soft field landing and short field landing. I was discontinued due to weather. Maybe today? I'm currently on standby. It went well though thank you for asking.
I really want to become an airline pilot. I already have a college degree in finance at a top rated business school. I’m definitely weighing my options. I think I could put together the money and I don’t want the easiest route to get to the airlines but I want the best quality of education that will get me to the airlines. Any suggestions on which route to go? I’m still doing my research on the different paths.
What route did you take and have you finished yet?
Hi Ed, I respect you for owning up to the bust. One suggestion..... keep the video brief. I wanted to fast forward at times. Props to you!
Most PPL candidates get their certificate in about 45 hours Bud.
Don Av8's not true...66 hours according to Aopa
Just failed mine two weeks ago It can be stressful
Frost Esrey Yep, just finished mine finally. When is your re check?
Ed Creed June 7 at vgt wish me luck your video was very motivational thanks
Is this school like a campus? Do you stay there?
Relax!!! You let your nerves get to
You
Ed I miss ya bro
Brother…you are wrong about this….you are being REAL and TRUE to yourself. You are facing your mistakes but not only that…it sounds like you got set up. This doesn’t seem like it’s entirely on you. Additionally ATP is notorious for rushing people through their own programs….and those questions that were asked seem a little ridiculous….this seems like a shite show….don’t let this be a setback. Just learn from it. And you’re right you can’t know everything so your answer should be or to know where to look it up. DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP OVER THIS…just learn from your mistakes and know this is a non standard situation….combination of an accelerated program and a non standard situation of two people getting a check ride at the same time.
I’m not buying your story! How could anyone be wrong with taxing back to the hanger to get the magneto’s looked at. No way would that be a fail. Are you just trying to make ATP flight school look bad!
ANA Hello How are you ?
Hello Ed, may I know your age please?
Sunbulah 47 my friend
47 my friend
How old are you ?
48
Ed Creed - Base2Final I would of never guest that, lol thought you were younger, great videos I enjoyed, your content, one love from Fort Lauderdale FL.
....choked.
NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING BOUT KEEPING IT 💯 I'm tired of people posting perfect pics on their social media all the time. No one's life is life that. I give you more respect man. 👏👏👏
Lalo L Thanks, I just felt like i should let people know what was going on. Not every day is going to be a great day. Thank you so much!
Exactly mate..
Subscribed to this channel✅
Hang in there... When I did my check ride, the guy was like 75 years old and I swear was suffering from dementia. Not only that, this guy spent 3 hours beating me up on the Q&A portion and I could barely answer 1 question out of 20. He looked at me and asked how I made a 92% on the exam because I couldn't answer ONE question. My response... "If my life didn't depend on it, I could answer every damn question in the book!" He busted out laughing... after the Q&A portion was done, I left the room...looked at my CFI sitting on the couch and told her I just left the rink with the Mike Tyson of FAA Examiners! They both busted out laughing. Needless to say, I busted on my soft field and short field landings. When we taxi'd to the FBO building he asked me how I thought I did, and I said..."that sucked pretty bad".
Best part of this story.... I'm thinking this guy is going to eat me alive because he tore me up verbally while we were in the air. I'm a pretty stocky guy and I don't put up with BS from people, but that day I was all...."Yes Sir, No Sir". We go into the conference room to de-brief and he looks at me and says.."Mr. Werner, you did one hell of a good job and you will make a great Pilot". I about fell off my chair. Although I busted on two landings, he said that he was seeing how far he could push me mentally. The fact I kept my cool, was quite impressive. I laughed..I said..."you had NO idea how bad I wanted to throw you through a window".... He said.."oh, yes I did but I was impressed with your positive attitude which caused me to push you more".
Two days later I finished my two landings to get my license. He was THE nicest examiner I'd ever met....
Moral of the story is HANG in there, and in two years you will look back and laugh, along with have a funny story to tell :)
Kurt
I respect you for being honest!
I feel discouraged when others post how they passed on first attempt.
Weight Reduction .
What's rough about aviation training is the questions are random the next guy could come through knowing the same amount or less than you and not be asked those questions and pass with flying colors.. just the way it goes. Take it on the chin, keep learning and pushing guys
Bro don't worry about it! It feels like crap but I believe it will make you a much more solid pilot. Mistakes are a huge recipe for learning.
Thanks for sharing your experience Ed .
We are all products of our training department and ATP bears the greater burden for you not knowing the answers to the questions or at least teaching you to say i don’t know but lets look it up. It’s amazing that your examiner doesn’t know for sure what’s required to continue.
Good examiners / instructors/ line check airmen know how to give you a little help here and there pointing out what you did wrong but always pointing out your positive points and what you did right so they don’t leave you beat down.
Keep going you have the right stuff.
Capt. Envoy Airlines .31 years 33,000 hours
I'm in my 40's as well and just started working on my PPL. I really appreciate you sharing your experience, keep going you'll make it happen.
80 hours to check ride? That seems high.
ATP rules..
John Conway Actually the national average is about 70 hours so 80 is not that much far over
John Conway Oh trust me John I agree as I am a victim to the industry as well. Let me clarify, Overall I believe 80 is excessive. I currently have 58 hours under my belt and I’m just getting ready to do dual cross country with my instructor. Unfortunately I’ve been to two different flight schools in the first one I had to start learning in a different aircraft than the one that I started with and then when I switch flight schools I went to a third aircraft which is typically unusual for most students. Learning in three different planes during the course of my training has provided versatility but it has held me back. I am beginning to truly believe that excessive number of flight hours up into the 60 to 80 range is a systemic problem in the industry bordering on epidemic However it is still considered an average range by groups such as the Aopa and FAA.
I had 105… who cares?
Just started ATP on Monday so I appreciate your honestly. Nothing to feel bad about when you fall you pick yourself up and try again. Take it one day at a time! Keep the awesome videos going I'm following your progress as I'll be there soon :)
Wow, congratulations! Just study.. get the PHAK and read daily! Also, the Archer Supplement. Good Luck and have fun! Thanks for watching.
Patrick Canler hows ATP been?
How is ATP going so far for you
Thank you for having the courage to share.
Yes it does get better I been flying seen I was 11 year old haven’t stop .i have flown around the Caribbean off corse the USA .an don’t regret anything. One thing I wish I did was get my IFR ticket but never did .so don’t stop there. Get some fly X country flying and go for your IFR ticket.wish you all the best fly safe always check your weather and fuel before you fly. And don’t rush enjoy every minute off it.😀😀😀😀👨🏼✈️
I would love to fly in the islands. That's always been a dream of mine.
When you graduate, and you WILL graduate, start looking for companies that do charters to the Carribean. You'll build your hours, and get to fly down there. With the pilot shortage, and there is no doubt there IS a pilot shortage, within a year or 18 months, you could be doing that. It's an option.
Isnt PRESSURE part of being a GOOD pilot? Not to knock this guy , I get that maybe the FAA was on board - but If a pilot is nervous about a CHECKLIST because someone in authority you didnt expect is watching you - what happens if you ARE flying a 707 FULL OF PASSENGERS and there is an uncontrolled fire ? Engine goes out during take off?? Does everyone die because there is too much pressure?!? "An ordinary airline pilot reacts-A GREAT airline pilot predicts"
Hello Ed, I am trying to get into ATP. Do you think location matters when signing up for classes? I am in VA right now. I was Thinking about Texas or Florida because of better flying weather (I am willing to travel anywhere its worth it). I saw you are in NC. Do you face weather-related issues? And how often compared to any other location?
Also, should I consider the locations equipped with "new" G-500 Archers or Seminoles? Does that give me an advantage?
Thank you very much!
That question was double sided in a way.
Honestly, in my opinion, having an issue with your aircraft and not exactly knowing what the fault is on the ground, shoot id taxi it back and ask my mechanic/instructor only for him to tell me oh its probably the carbon buildup on the spark plugs.
Aren't we taught as pilots if we don't feel safe to fly then don't.
The proper answer would be to do as you said Ed, if the issue persists take it back. But its weird because what if this never happened to you and your instructor as a pilot.
How would you know that this could be the issue?
As a student pilot for my PPL my answer would have been the same as yours.
But now I know it is not. I will pay closer attention to details in my studies.
Thank you for the information and good luck with your next check ride.
Alex Francis Thanks Alex. As pilots, we are always learning. I’m working on IFR now and am enjoying it so far. It’s a bit different, and flying through clouds has some weird effects at first.
Ed Creed Understood Good luck. I actually love just staring at the instruments while flying. Best of luck stay motivated!
Good luck next time don’t give up fly safe flying if beautiful 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😀👨🏼✈️
Marin Delgado I’ve questioned myself several times throughout this program already. Just like your comment, I’ve been told it gets better. Appreciate your comment, thank you.
Ed, if it was easy, EVERYBODY would be doing it. Some night, as grizzled old Captain Creed is sitting in the left seat of his modern Boeing whatever, with one shut down, on a dark and stormy night to minimums, you might look back on this and chuckle to yourself. Your co-pilot will be ashen and white faced, and will wonder if you're crazy or not, but as you touch the wheels down in the middle of the runway right where you need to be, and taxi to the gate, you can reflect back on this busted checkride, and your concerns that you might not make it, and here, you've just landing a jet liner with one engine out, 300 passengers in the back who had no idea because it was just an 'uneventful flight' to them.
We’re all human. Most If not everyone would be stressed under those circumstances. People need to fail to succeed.
You bet.. we keep our head up and move forward. Thanks!
I admire your honesty in sharing a "not so great" day that you experienced. Even though you received an unsat, you'll still learned a lot. Keep pecking away at it, it's worth it!!!
seoceancrosser Really appreciate you taking time to watch and comment. Just wanted to share my journey. Thank you my friend!
Really appreciate this-we all do. You’ve got this next time 👌👌
Thanks! This was a difficult video to make. I wanted to tell everyone that I made it, but hey didn't make it. I think in a way, it helped me in a way. Thank you for reaching out!
Hey Ed Creed, I am now 2 weeks into the ATP program here in Chicago. I want to preface by saying that I don’t want to sound “complacent” but your honesty and reality is an awesomely refreshing change of pace and it makes me feel more comfortable with how my program will go. Thanks for keeping it real.
Nice vid man i actually live here in n.c too ima start going to hickory airport for school is expensive tho but ima try to do itt
Just follow the acs and you cant go wrong. Buy the oral exam book this coming from a instrument pilot
Can anybody tell me if you need an associates degree to get into ATP’s program? Because on their website it says you don’t need one, but I called them and on the phone they said you DO need one
It’s very nice from you by being sincere about what happened in your checkride. These are things that people normally never talk. Failing a checkride doesn’t mean that you don’t know your thing. It’s a way to learn (the tough way unfortunately) about things you don’t know. The best thing about this experience is that you’ll never forget these questions made by the DPE. I can imagine how hard was for you dealing with two people inside the airplane. If you have another checkride similar to your previous one, invent an excuse and discontinue. That way you can save yourself and your pocket. Wish you the best my friend. By the way, you shouldn’t say about the gauge since it can create a big problem at ATP. Greetings from KILG.
Hey Luis, So, hindsight being 20/20, I should've discontinued, but I learned what not to do. My CR is tomorrow 5/16 Just been hitting the books and chair flying. Thanks for saying hi, and hope to see you around out there.
Need to know the airplane inside and out. the true test is flying the airplane safely.
How is ATP as in general in your opinion thinking of part 141 carrier as ATP
Hey man go out there and kill it, you got this. You got hit with some hard questions. My DPE actually taught me the mag cleaning thing DURING the exam. Shit happens, pulled the short straw, learn from it and move on. I have no doubt you will pass on your second attempt, the flying is the easy part haha. Good luck!
Hey, thanks for saying hi and the encouragement! Weather has been crazy here for the last couple days. My CR was canceled, but then went to VFR.. so hurried out to meet the DPE. Got over there, and did everything except soft field landing and short field landing. Maybe today? I'm currently on standby. Almost done!! Thanks for watching.
You'll get it next time brother, I appreciate your honesty. I just did my first solo on the 7th and I'm doin my second solo tomorrow.
Keep going my friend! It get's faster and faster. Your checkride should be in about two weeks from your second solo. Good luck!
The balls it takes to admit you failed