I FAILED My Private Pilot Check Ride
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Here’s the story of my failed private pilot check ride. In this video I will go over what you might expect on your own check ride, some of my takeaways, the reason for my disapproval, and what happens next. If you guys and gals like this video, please hit that like button, subscribe, and stay tuned for more of my aviation adventures soon to come!
-Captain Charlie Bravo
This is one of the most valuable videos I have come across on RUclips. Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective. It is indeed a "community service" for potential pilots! A setback is only one step away from success! Good Luck!
Wow, thank you! That's quite the compliment! I'm glad you found it helpful!
Its wierd how some airlines care soo much about traffic tickets and checkride failures, where other ones dont
I am honestly so proud of the fact that you showed so much resilience to such a moment of adversity. I wish you the best of luck to you and your flying career, and I wish you the best of success in your future endeavors. As Shyam said, a setback is only one step away from success.
It is so refreshing to see someone do such a service to the community by sharing a mistake they made in their quest for career success in aviation. As a former Captain (NWA/Delta), current corporate pilot and DPE, just let me say I would be proud to have you in my cockpit as a trusted crewmember. Do not fret the hiccup in your journey; as a former member of an airline hiring board, you are just the person I always looked for in the selection. Keep up the good work!!
Thank you so much for such a thoughtful and kind response. I appreciate your perspective and I’m glad the intention of sharing my experience was well received!
Bo Corby As a pilot for 30 years and one who did my private testing on steam gauges only, I had to comment on your post here. For you to take the time to post the detailed words of support and encouragement here, is not only impressive, but kind of you. With endless comments on here, yours will never be forgotten by this pilot. I am so glad I randomly wound up here, to see the impressive ownership of errors by this pilot, then have the honor of reading your supportive post. Yes, this was time well spent, so thank you both. Safe skies !
I was thinking exactly the same way as you Bo Cordy. I stumbled on this video by accident but I'm very glad I watched. It was very refreshing to see this young man put forth such a professional effort. As a former CFI/CFII/MEI corporate pilot and current commercial airline captain for a combined 30+ years, I don't believe I remember ever seeing this much knowledge and professionalism in someone with his level of experience. I would say to Captain Charlie Bravo, I believe your CFI may have let you down some in your training on this particular subject.
Your buddy on the couch knows how to deal with setbacks . Take a nap. All will be good.
Real talk...🐶 therapy
This is literally the best piece of advice I’ve ever read.
I failed my PPL written 3 times before passing on the 4th try. I’m now about to be a commercial pilot. Strong work on sharing this !
Way to stick with it! It's not for the faint of heart. You have to tap into your passion and keep pushing through. Congrats on making it that far! Quite the accomplishment!
What’s going to be your first commercial airplane?
So it looks like you are not a natural pilot. Was that the DPE's or your fault??
You should never be allowed to fly if you failed 3 times! My God, you have a book with the answers in it! And no, you are not about to be a commercial pilot, you are probably about to take your commercial test...which you have a LOT more to do to actually be a commercial pilot. Which I hope you never become! My goodness....unbelievable...
@@MikeM275 Ah give him a break. Even if he failed his written a few times, doesn't mean he can't grow. I know plenty of people who were once pretty poor pilots during their training days who eventually became competent airline captains. Flying is an art, and it takes time to grow into it. Yeah, some people don't make the cut, but there are plenty who eventually do.
That seems extreme. I remember on my checkride (20 years ago), I somehow forgot my sectional and only noticed on climb-out. How the DPE didn't notice up to then, I don't know. I 'fessed right up and said "I may have blown this before we even got going. I don't have my sectional." I then radioed the tower for an immediate return to the airport. We get back on the ground, I'm beyond dejected, he walks in with me, I see my sectional sitting right there on the table. He says, "OK, let's go." Long story short, he passed me. In the end, he said he had the right to declare it a fail, but based on how I reacted to it, how I handled it, and how I resumed the flight without losing it, that was truly what being a PIC was about.
What a great story! Put a smile on my face while reading it.
As an examiner for the British CAA, I can say you did everything correct and deserved a pass. I am still staggering about this video "programmed my GPS" what a dick
That was a cool DPE, my roommate busted his check ride because the sectional expired the previous day. Done.
Yes, that is a fair DPE. you did the correct thing. You did nothing unsafe and you went back to get your sectional.
@@tringalijthat's so dumb especially since the sectionals and even terminal charts rarely change and if it does it won't be a change that's going to affect you the chances of some airport or airspace being affected right where you are is slim to none. The requirement for a new sectional and ESPECIALLY terminal charts is idiotic. Just release an update bulletin which says what part of the sectional is affected or which approach/arrival/departure/enrojte charts are affected. Guaranteee you each cycle maybe 1 thing at MOST changes, and for most pilots that one thing won't affect them.
Gotta say man, I clicked this video assuming you made some dumb mistake. I stand corrected, your DPE definitely graded you unfairly. If it went as you say it did, your DPE is not looking at the evaluation correctly and you should never use her again. Your experience is not normal. Your maneuver was not unsafe and your decision making was sound. She essentially failed you on minor techniques. Don't take this one too hard. I'm a former military instructor/evaluator pilot (now just flying for fun on weekends) and this whole story just sounds outrageous.
Yeah. It had me spun up for a minute but it’s all good. I passed, I still love flying, and learned a thing or two about testing prep and performance.
I agree. My oral and check ride were nothing like that. It certainly was much much more than kick the tires and don't crash but wow. People who do not instruct or evaluate student pilots continually will not remember all the stuff we're required to learn during our PPL training. A good DPE will know this and will mostly make sure you're safe, know that the information exists, and you know where to get the information. Nobody has the entire FAR book memorized and anyone can fail anyone else on something minor like you were dinged on. You should have passed your check ride.
Yeah, that is simply unfair. Of course a student trusts his instructor. If the instructor confirmes they trained that way there is only one fair solution: Tell them you expect something different and let the student do that right now. It is not his fault. Maybe this can mean trouble for the instructor but why the student? How is that fair. I always trusted my instructors and I don't feel naive.
@Rourke Beuchel You are exactly right, she graded him unfairly especially by quizzing you extra hard like that. This experience you had with her was not normal at all. Do not fly with this particular check ride instructor again.
Your tempered response to this experience helps my faith in humanity, or at least towards fellow aviators. You were clearly well prepared, and it might suck to fail. But good response! I don't agree with your DPE, but technicalities have killed before. (This wouldn't likely have ever even lead to an incident). And great video! I wish everyone would post their fail videos, failure is a great instructor! (Expressly when it doesn't kill or maim you). People that are hot with words about this DPE, grow some emotional temper, like C'apin Charlie Bravo here.
Hey CB, sounds like you had a DPE that couldn't overlook a minor problem on a flight check that sounded like you had 99 % nailed. As an ATP commercial retired pilot I can say to you that you will ultimately accomplish your goal!! I failed my first instrument check ride do to a blotched go around but went on to fly for the next 40 years accumulating 30,000+ hrs. The fact that you were able to accept the DPE's recommendation says volumes about who you are. Hang in there, you have an exciting career ahead of you.
I appreciate the support! You still flying now that you’re retired?
@@CaptainCharlieBravo Yes I am. I was flying corporate jets for a while but now I am involved with a flying club here in Northeast Florida. It's in the blood. ;-))
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and press on. As a retired F-14, airline captain of the 727, A-300, MD-11, and B-777 we’ve all had a stumble along way. Keep going.
Damn...you've flown some sweet birds. Thanks for the encouragement!
Flying dog boxes after an F-14 must be a real letdown :(
The last thing I wanna hear is that nobody fails their checkride. I'll gladly fly with someone who failed and ultimately passed, because I think they have a deeper appreciation for the knowledge.
ZOANOM I totally agree. I’m a better pilot because of it. Plus I feel proud of my accomplishments that much more.
@@CaptainCharlieBravo You should, it all adds to your personal confidence, which is critical. We never learn so much as when we fail, and we certainly learn when we teach, so you've gained from both directions by sharing it. Thanks for posting this.
If everything the lad says is so then it was not fairly assessed. It is one thing to fail for a bonehead mistake that makes you say to yourself boy I screwed that up but it is another to fail under such circumstance. There will be plenty other chances to fail in a legitimate fashion during a lifetime, but to carry something on your record is not acceptable. Although I will say most airplanes do use some degree of flap for a soft field takeoff. I think a more appropriate response by her would have been to let you do a short field landing to a full stop then left you do another soft field takeoff with some flaps. I know its a check ride but there is some leniancy given to the DPE in some circumstances. Thats all I have to say on the subject. Carry on.
definately
Would you say the same about driving a car?
I'm starting my pilot course next month. I've never seen someone so humble in a mistake - but I'm more thankful that you shared this with us. I hope you made it in the end and I wish you all the best in your aviation career!
That’s awesome! It so fun and challenging. I’m glad you liked the video and I appreciate you following along! Thanks!
Don't sweat it. I breezed thru my private pilot written with a 98 and aced my check out ride, BUT failed my first CDL drivers license test at the DMV!
😭😭
Funniest thing I have heard😂
bROOOO The pre-trip inspection is brutal!!!
What did you use to study?
I also busted my checkride on my first time around as well. The flight was going pretty good for the first 40minutes, but then we got to the steep turns. I was feeling pretty confident about steep turns because it was one of my favorite maneuver, but as I rolled into the turn i became anxious and continued even though I probably should’ve stopped. I rolled out of the steep turn and he looked at me and he said that sadly doesn’t meet ACS standards. I took a deep breath and he asked me if I wanted to continue my flight I looked at him and I said yes. I finish the rest of my check ride landed the plane and felt nothing but disappointment in myself. Later that week we went up again and I completed the steep turns with high confidence in myself. The moral of the story is never give up. If this is truly what you want to do for the rest your life or is something that you are extremely passionate about keep pushing yourself to the limits keep moving forward.
If what you said is true:
Yes, I agree with examiner on one point. A soft field should be with some flap. You need to transfer the weight off the wheels and onto the wings as soon as possible. In Canada I would give you a “2” out of 4 on that. ( passed with a briefing) What you did was not unsafe. This examiner is way out of line. There are issues with her that could be an entirely different conversation. She is abusing her tittle.
This is a private pilot ride, not a shuttle launch. The lesson learned here is that you got a bad examiner and that’s too bad. This unfortunately happens. I have done over 70 check flights in my career and I got one or two people who should not be in those positions. You sound like a very descent competent pilot. Put this behind you, keep going and do not fly this this examiner ever again, she is the problem, not you.
Hans Juergensen
I appreciate the kind words! I also felt a solid debrief would have had the same impact on my actions going forward. Thanks for watching!
spoiler alert, I'm not a pilot but I would make sure I got this examiner again, she made sure you knew your stuff......
I’m also training in a C150 and my CFI and I have discussed this very issue. If there’s a 50ft obstacle, no flaps. I agree total crap that you got busted for that. Apparently if you did your checkride in a cub you’d fail automatically because there are no flaps 🙄
Agree👍
@@warwickmcdowall6611 No.
Like others have said, it's great to own the mistake, recover, and ace it next time. But, prior to flying with that examiner again, I would dive into the POH and the regs, and verify her basis for disapproving of a maneuver. Then discuss your findings. We have regs and POH for a reason, and an examiner has to follow both, just as they expect you to do. The fact that you successfully completed the maneuver in a safe manner tells me you were correct and within the limits of the aircraft. Her response was subjective, and incorrect.
That’s precisely what my CFI and I did. We went back and forth for a few days but she stuck to her guns and maintained her disapproval. I went back a few weeks later, nailed the 4 maneuvers left to demonstrate, and got my ticket.
@@CaptainCharlieBravo Hey, that is great! Congratulations on getting your license!
@@CaptainCharlieBravo Can you take legal action? I would never let a DPE cheat me out like that. I'm probably too argumentative.
Like you, I had to find a DPE who could fit in my plane; I never could. My instructor actually called a FAA Director, and he conducted my check ride. Also, just like you, I flubbed my short field takeoff. He did not fail me over that. He did have my instructor go over it with me again. The oral part lasted about an hour, and the check ride was an hour as well. Congratulations on passing it later. After watching the video; I feel certain, you were better prepared than I was.
I feel pretty good about how well I prepared. At least I’m taking something with me to my next ride!
For some unknown reason, your video popped up on my screen this morning and I had to watch (Congratulations, btw, for passing your check-ride). My career is winding down (45 years in the profession with the last 24 as an expat contractor). With 12 type-ratings I never endured a 3 1/2 to 4 hour Oral and though each pre-flight was thorough they were not as intense as yours. Many of us admire your dedication, study, and preparation but each of us equally appreciate and admire your humility. As a former Gulfstream PPE (FAR 91), DCA (UAE), and Line Check Airman (KSA), it was an opportunity for a candidate to hopefully learn something but they would somehow elevate my perspective as well. My personal opinion but you obviously provided her with insight and knowledge she could use to enhance her career! At age 68 and having quadruple bypass surgery last August, I'm not sure if the FAA will approve a re-issue for my medical but, I have been approached to set-up and manage a new operation to consist of a VIP 787, three Gulfstreams, and three Sikorsky S76Ds - it may never come through but if it does, you would be welcome in our organization (select group of retired professionals from American, Pan Am, and VIP expat operators). Take care, all the best ....
Thank you! Sorry to hear about your medical...that's rough after a life of flying. I'd love to hear more about your opportunity should it come to fruition. Send your contact info to captaincharliebravo@yahoo.com. I'd love to network once I'm qualified! Thanks for the kind words and taking the time to watch!
I can't tell you how impressed I am with you... your modesty regarding your checkride experience, and your maturity to learn from it. I would fly with you as my fellow crewmember anytime. Bravo. I have no doubt at all that you will be a very successful professional aviator.
I really appreciate your support! Thanks for taking the time to watch!
Turned out my DPE had worked with my dad 20 years prior (USAF C141) We didn’t know who
each other was until a week later. Took my check at 42 hours. He asked me to give him our position (1995 no gps at the time). So I called approach and ask for a speed and location check, which I received. The dpe laighed, “good one” he said then ask he to do it the “hard way” using map and gbr. Regardless of outcome each flight is a learning experience. Good way to handle it.
That’s awesome! Nothing wrong with using your resources.
You have demonstrated one of the most important skills in being a good pilot. Owning your mistakes, learning from them, and sharing with others so that they don't make the same ones. So many are scared to admit their failures (and we all have them).
This is a skill I've seen mamy experienced pilots fail at time and time again!
Its tough to do but my life and others lives depend on me performing at my best. I like the challenge and look forward to the new ones that lie ahead!
Through your pain & disappointment you have helped others embarking at this stage. I'm currently at the mock check ride stage. This contact was helpful. Thanks for sharing.
AWESOME video, thank you for sharing your experience. This was EXTREMELY HELPFUL.
I'm 58 yrs young and have 38 hours in my log book. Recently soloed.
I'm a long way way from doing my check ride.
Your video is very inspirational and educational on many levels.
An experienced Private pilot once told me "learning to fly is a journey, not a destination".
You'll do FINE on the last few maneuvers on your next check ride.
👍👍
Again, THANK YOU for sharing.
Definitely subscribing, looking forward to following your "journey".
Brian Berezowski that’s so awesome, Brian! I’m glad to help! Congrats on the solo! Best feeling ever, right?! I’m super stoked you’re here and look forward to making some more videos . If there is something you want a video for, put your suggestions in the comments. Let me know when you get that ticket!
I’m a 75/76 captain, been flying for over 25 years now, and I’m sure I’d fail a private check ride if I took it today. Only difference is I’d give her a good piece of my mind afterwards.
My older pilot buddies have all said the same. I guess things have tightened up over the years in the name of safety statistics.
I'm about to start my PPL training. This was a very upfront and honest video that will help me very much. Thanks for sharing!
Great attitude. This will not hamper your ability to get hired at an airline. I'm a FedEx pilot and with over 7600 HRS I'm still always learning. Good luck with the rest of your training and checkrides
I was ready to throw up by the time my check ride was complete. Maybe one of the most stressful events of my life. Was sure I failed, but I didn't. Your story was really interesting. Your attention to detail is great and you seem to know your stuff. This video was posted 9 months ago. I hope you've had success by the time I'm viewing this. Cheers!
[edit: I also think the examiner was wrong for failing you]
Yeah...pretty nerve wracking to have someone you don't know scrutinizing every move you make. I made it through and have since gotten my tailwheel endorsement and currently am working on my instrument. Thanks for watching!
@@CaptainCharlieBravo She sounds like a hard-core beeyotch. Glad you are doing well!!!
That's great of you to share your experience, I am a pilot, but feel you did a great thing by sharing your story. I'm confident that you will have your license very soon, and this will all be a fantastic memory. Good luck, stay safe, and happy flying!
Thanks for the kind words! Those are hard to find on RUclips comment sections these days. If you check the more recent uploads, you’ll be happy to see I passed my retest and am loving every minute of it!
That’s awesome! Enjoy the wonderful joys of being PIC, keep learning, stay safe, God bless!
I have a feeling that you are becoming an excellent pilot. Anyone who is this honest and introspective about a setback like this is destined to be better for it. This was very articulate and incredibly helpful to those of us at the very beginning of this journey. Thanks very much.
Hey, I'm just glad to find this helpful video without the typical hip-hop or other irritating music in the background.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I passed on my first private checkride attempt. But it wasn't pretty. I had well over 160 hours by that date and it was my third flight school. Was at ATP (2nd school) and was completely demoralized after I had trouble with my landings and was basically told I was not going to make it there. I started four months later to a different school and after 7 mos (lots of bad weather) I finally passed my private. I'm still nervous about the rest of the checkrides coming, but all we can do is prepare!
That’s pretty crazy. Especially since you explained the aerodynamics and everything. It’s not like you just didn’t know what to do. I have seen people pass who didn’t even know what a forward slip was or how to do one which is crazy
I’ve heard of worse stories than mine with a passing grade. The numbers say we are safer pilots as the years progress so maybe it’s a good thing not everyone is passing. I’m trying to take what I can and learn from it.
WOW...THANKS FOR SHARING THIS !! I'm probably a month or so out before taking my check ride so I am trying to wrap my head around it all sooner then later. Also so awesome to read through the comments posted here. It for sure goes to say anything worth having in life is worth the hard work / fighting for. I have to agree with so many others here...yes very humbling...but I would no doubt feel much safer flying with a person like yourself than someone who just might feel a bit more full of themselves. Its obvious you are a articulate, smart, determined individual and I believe there is no doubt you will persevere and go on to continue and accomplish your goals to become a great aviator ! Best of luck !!
I appreciate the support! I wish you the best on your ride! let me know when you pass!
These comments are so supportive and inspirational. Amidst all the negative stories we hear about social media and the like, this is rather heartening.
Wow. This was not my experience at all. It’s been like 15 years, but you seem way more prepared than I remember being. I can’t imagine passing the checkride with the four hour ground portion and the way you’ve described your DPE.
I flew c150’s year's ago. I still have two owners manuals. 1968 and a 1977 BOTH say no flaps. 1968 ”wing flaps UP”, 1977 ”Wing flaps ZERO”. For a maximum performance take off. There is no misinterpretation to it. Normal take off is also flaps zero. I believe you got scammed. Looking at the manual again now there isn't an instance where flaps on takeoff is required.
G Nash Sometimes I guess we all draw the short straw...but at least I didn’t let it stop me! Do your manuals say no flaps for soft field and short field takeoffs?
The manuals call both ”maximum performance takeoffs”. There is that paragraph that y'all pondered over that said you could use 10% but you loose climb ability. You could get off the ground a few feet sooner to hit the trees.
Flying a C172M and it states flaps up for maximum performance as well. It doesn't outline soft field, but after discussing it with others it is designed to have 10 deg flaps for soft field. The concept is that it will keep weight off the wheels as reviewed in the video. Ideally, soft fields should be long enough that the reduced climb performance makes no difference; a maximum performance shouldn't have to be combined with a soft field.
Here in the U.K., we can have some pretty severe examiners. My Nav examiner set me a route that, given the weather prevailing, was I fly able. I told him that and he basically tried to bully me into taking the flight. I still refused, and which point he said that had I agreed to fly, he would have failed me on the spot. “Never allow anyone to make you fly if you’re not comfortable” Narrow Miss there. On my GA test, my CFI said “Don’t touch anything that you don’t want to be examined on.” So no GPS, no VORs, not even NDBs. Basic flying. I had a three hour grilling, and the examiner helped me on my final crosswind landing. He just muttered “Hmm. 16knts” which exceeded the demonstrated crosswind of the PA 28 I was in. You’re right. Listen to the examiner. And don’t let it go…you’ll get there.
Awesome video, thanks for being able to share your experience. Just took my checkride a few weeks ago. Oddly enough I was most nervous about the oral portion, but I absolutely passed that part with no problem whatsoever, but on my first landing I overshot my touchdown point and failed my soft/ short field landings. It caught me by surprise for sure because its something ive done a million times over and over again with no issue whatsoever. So now I have to go back next week and do the rest of the flight. It was extremely discouraging for sure, I had all the confidence in the world I would pass, and yet I think now im more nervous now than I was the first time, but on the flip side It gave me a new found respect for GA pilots that I just can’t explain
Absolutely my pleasure! It’s funny how on the spot we all feel when we’ve been literally cramming aviation into every crevice of our brains for months. Even though my oral was super long I actually really enjoyed that part.
Sorry to hear about the busted ride...especially for the same thing I missed on! Do yourself a favor and take your CFI with you into the shortest (safest) field nearby your training airport and practice there. It really helps with the power management aspects which is really what nailing those are all about. I did that before my second test and was super confident going back in.
You got this! Let me know when you pass!
.I should have failed my check ride, but he passed me?.....When I called a tower airport to radio our position...I said I was "5 miles north of field"....my Flight Examiner chuckled...Clicked the mike, and said...."sorry we are 5 miles SOUTH of the field".....that's a 10 mile mistake!..i thought i failed right there.
Also before the flight he asked me what was the hardest for me to do flying a plane..."a xwind landing" I answered.......on our last landing, he deliberately chose a x-wind runway.....during my flare....he screamed at me....."KEEP THAT WING DOWN!!! KEEP YOUR DAMN F***ING WING DOWN!!!!!!" nearly at the top of his lungs..........as we rolled out he said......."THERE, you can do a x-wind landing...."
I taxied back...silence, no one said a thing...i shut the plane down. felt like an eternity.....(I knew I failed).........then he says......"I like your style......you pass"
Nothing like a little stress to hammer the point in! Love it.
Thank you for sharing, it says a lot about your character to own this situation. Kudos to you. Your information here is useful to me and I imagine many others. Thanks again!!
Brian Beckman I appreciate the kind words my man! Few things feel as good as hearing this kind of feedback. Thanks to you for watching!
Dude, you are my new hero. People who tell the truth and are honest with their self and others and don't deflect or try to blame others, to me are stellar. You'll be fine and you know that. It's obvious to me. It's obvious to others. Thanks for sharing.
I'd love to pet that doggo of yours.
Thanks man! I’m just trying to keep it real. Failing sucks. Helping others makes me feel good. And the pooch...he happens to be a big fan of “the pets”. 😎🐶
Times have really changed. I took my Private check ride in 1971 from a flight school fully expecting to end up a career pilot. There was no oral exam. All I needed was approval from my CFI. I preflighted the plan in the usual way not particularly concerned about being perfect.. i.e. never checked the navlights, etc...just drained the sumps, walked around the plane and got in. He took me out in the country and pulled the throttle and asked me to set up an emergency landing. I picked a cow pasture and overshot it. He said I'm going to give you one more chance. He took me back to the airport, pulled the power on downwind at an uncontrolled field, and told me to land on the numbers without adding power. I did and that was it. I bought an airplane, flew it about 1000 hours over two years.
I then went to a large training school for intensive (all day 10 days) of flying and instruction to get ready for my commercial . I did well on the written, oral consisted of basically a weight and balance calculation and I failed the check ride because I couldn't perform Eights on Pilons even thought the CFI signed off on it. I came home, sold the plane and never flew again. Since I have retired, I've watched several videos of oral exam and check rides and I think I woulda gone nuts to go through all of that stuff knowing that if you miss one little thing, you're going to fail. I never ever checked my navlights during a daytime preflight as this guy was required to do. During my 1000 hours, I had several emergencies both weather and equipment. Once my mic failed after takeoff on a night flight, and once the radio speaker failed on my return leg in the middle of a permitted pass through a restricted area. (I never checked those things and they seemed to work when I took off....both were shorts,) We never had to carry any extra equipment for emergency egress except when flying over water.... and this guy brought extra winter clothes etc.... great idea...... dress for regress--- but it wasn't part of the training.
I have kept up my interest in aviation by reading the manuals, and watching videos and I still do that on a daily basis. Times have really changed, especially with airspace, and instrument approaches. Of course 4 function calculators had just reached the market the last time I flew. I really miss flying, can't pass the physical now, and the stress of it all is not something I would want to do at my age of 70. I am impressed with the thoroughness of the examination and truly believe it is important these days, but I don't think my doctors are put under that much scrutiny. The navigation equipment today is especially impressive and the number of airports has increased 10 fold.
Thanks for sharing! What about LSA? Maybe with Basic Med you might have a shot??
I am an ex military and civilian instructor pilot and airline pilot. Have done a million check rides, have given the same. That was BS pure and simple. There is something else going on there with that DPE. After you pass, I would write the FAA and the instructor should do the same.
Seems like a lot of people on here agree! 🧐
I wonder what this particular DPE's fail rate is.
Maybe the FAA needs to give HER a check ride.
Man...if only that data was public...
@@CaptainCharlieBravo The DPE I had for my private checkride was actually quite helpful. Most of them WANT to pass you.
She was looking to see that I was safe and competent, NOT perfect.
As has been said many times, the private pilot certificate is your license to LEARN.
@@bryansimmons4550 , correct thats what my instructor told me, now that you have your ticket; now go learn to fly!😉👍
In the early 1980' when i was on training, i had a HER cfi , didnt take me long to see her agenda, dumped HER and aquired a male instructor, things quickly improved,
She kinda said. Use flaps. He’s sounds like a great pilot just had a bad day. We all have that.
That Dpe is nuts..
3-4 hour Ground /oral. ..insane.
My IFR Oral was 1.5 hours @ Embry Riddle. Longest oral ever.
You are a very impressive pilot.
Thank you
Crazy...Thanks! I appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment!
I failed my first check ride. Definitely warranted. Forgot to pull carb heat when the DPE pulled back the throttle for the Emerg Landing. It caused icing which we had to declare as an emergency and land. He later explained that he had to fail me. My test was going into the evening and he gave me an opportunity to continue. I was able to finish all but 3 maneuvers. On the retest 3 weeks later it was much shorter. The three remaining maneuvers + 2 I had difficulty with earlier. Everything was done in about 45 minutes. Much better experience. I thought the DPE was very professional. If you haven’t finished yet - keep at it you’ll do fine!
That's crazy! Show off...LOL. The rest of us only simulate! I did go back and finish and like yours, took very few minutes to complete. Thanks for the support!
Yep the part about “are you sure”... Don’t ever go against the FAA even if you can explain it. I’ve seen cases of Aviators trying to hold on to their pride knowing they’re right but it never goes well.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely I guess.
For anybody curious direct from the 150M POH:
“FLAP SETTINGS
Normal and short field takeoffs are performed with flaps up. The use of 10° flaps will shorten the ground run approximately 10%, but this advantage is lost in the climb to a 50-foot obstacle. Therefore, the use of 10° flaps is reserved for minimum ground runs or for takeoff from soft or rough fields.
If 10° of flaps are used on soft or rough fields with obstacles ahead, it is preferable to leave them extended rather than retract them in the climb to the obstacle. The exception to this rule would be in a high alti- tude takeoff in hot weather where climb would be marginal with flaps 10°. Flap deflections greater than 10° are not approved for takeoff.”
Seems soft field is a 10 degree flap setting and short field is flaps up. Bummer detail to fail a whole check ride on. 👎🏻
I agree it’s kind of a bummer to fail an entire check ride for something as small as that.
Assuming you’re a pilot, I’m curious about your thoughts on this scenario...
What settings would you use (based on your interpretation of the POH) for a soft AND short field with a 50’ obstacle like you might find in the backcountry of Idaho?
Would you negate the 10° flap setting for soft field because of the disadvantage in the climb and risk the nose wheel?
*Obvious answer is don’t land somewhere you can’t fly out of safely*
First of all, I commend you for making a video of this nature, i don’t believe I’ve seen a video like this where someone is mature enough to turn a checkride bust into an educational and informative video for thousands of aspiring aviators. When you get to the airlines they love asking questions about prior failures and they want to hear how you learned from them and moved forward. What happened is unfortunate, and I feel today more than ever DPEs are cracking down on Private Pilot checkrides, the ACS is the ACS and im aware standards need to be held, and this is a big foundation moving forward in your aviation career...after listening to you speak its apparent that you worked extremely hard, you are very passionate and have a great understanding of the materials you were required to know. I feel like I wasn’t nearly as prepared as you when I took my private ride back in 2004...but the DPE looked at me as he gave me my temporary cert. and he said “This is your license to learn now” and was he ever right. You will continue to learn, re-learn and fine tune your skills and flying for the rest of your career. We all make mistakes and have uncertainties at every possible level of flying, but we learn and grow and move onto the next. You may also want to consider a new DPE next ride, my CFI initial wasnt even a 4 hour oral! A little excessive in my opinion. I also find DPEs with a high pass rate get the FAA a little suspicious, so perhaps she was being extremely picky and found just enough to get you, and even out her P/F rate. Also keep in mind it is your right to discontinue a checkride and any point you deem necessary! Just for future reference. Thats just my 2 cents. Congratulations on passing your ride! Congratulations on continuing to pursue your passion, dont let anything stop you! This is an incredible industry, despite the things happening today, it will bounce back stronger than ever! The old saying is true, do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life! Hope to see you in the terminals soon. Best of luck to you!
I really appreciate your thoughtful feedback! I’ll be choosing a new CFI and DPE for my advanced ratings. One would hate to think someone would fail just for the sake of a P/F statistic but I can’t say it hadn’t crossed my mind. I’ve never found something I’m so passionate about and you’re absolutely right. I don’t plan on working another day in my life once I become a professional pilot. I’ll continue to remain humble, learn as much as I can from every flight and experience, and work towards being a valuable addition to the world of professional aviators. Thanks again for watching!
Wow...I took my check ride in 1982 in a C150 and this video brought back memories! I actually had a DPE pull back on the yoke when I was on short final at the numbers where I yelled at him WHAT THE HELL!!! I still had control of the plane and throttled up for a go-around. He answers me that he felt I was coming in too hot and heavy and he feared for our safety. He could tell that I was pretty pissed at him but we continued on for another 45 minutes to complete the exam. I thought for sure he was going to fail me. When I did a soft-field landing on my final return, I made sure it was slow and extra soft. He signed me off and I went and had a beer! Your DPE was probably intimidated by your stature and professionalism to the point of jealousy and had something to prove. Glad you got through it...happy flying.
Yeah, what happened to "My controls". DPE every heard of a 3 way exchange? Glad to hear you made it. I bet that was a damn good beer after that!
I'm prepping for my commercial checkride now and even having done a private and instrument ride already, these are the kinds of issues I'm always kind of worried about. I'm pretty confident in my overall piloting ability. It's the idea that some technical issue will come up like this and I'll get failed on it even though I know it was a pilot discretion call. Vast majority of DPEs I know are very kind, fair minded individuals, but this happens sometimes. It's frustrating because there isn't much you can do when it does.
Except appeal with the FSDO...but who wants to bark up that tree!? Good luck on your ride! Let me know how it goes!
She must have thought she was giving a checkride for an astronaut
Yes!!!😂😂😂
@Arthur Wow! If you're ever going for a job as a pilot, make sure you tell them that in your interview.
@Arthur Woah ok no
AN interesting comment...I was a Naval Aviator and I found most females in aviation, in a position of authority...trended towards being real jerks. Noteworthy imo since females in the training pipeline tended to be treated more gently than their male counterparts. This was early 80's when women in Naval aviation were a new 'thing.' Just my experience -
I would have figured that if the student explains the why and especially if their instructor taught them that way, and is capable of doing the correct way in one more demonstration, just pass him/her. I get soft field landings are important to understand but if all it takes is to tell him to input the notch of flaps and do it correctly once, don't allow hours of effort to just go down the drain. That's a huge waste of time, effort and money. Especially if the student was doing perfectly fine before then
It's always in section 4 under take off. Your manual says to use 10 degrees of flaps for a soft field take off and explains how to do the maneuver. You're correct, there isn't a check list for a soft field, and it's the same in other larger Cessna's. But, it is in there, you need to read the whole manual to run into it not just the check lists or limitations section.Your DPE probably read the whole manual. Also, makes sense to use flaps to get the weight off the gear and get airborne as soon as possible. But probably no more than that due to the low power of the engine. Turbo 182's for instance say to use 20 degrees of flaps in section 4.
Well with another 500 hours under my belt, and a lot of which is backcountry bush flying, I can say that I have mixed thoughts…
The POH says this, “the use of 10° flaps is reserved for minimum ground runs or for takeoff from soft or rough fields.
If 10° of flaps are used on soft or rough fields with obstacles ahead, it is preferable to leave them extended rather than retract them in the climb to the obstacle. **The exception to this rule would be in a high altitude takeoff in hot weather where climb would be marginal with flaps 10°** Flap deflections greater than 10° are not approved for takeoff.”
What this means to me, is that it’s up to pilot discretion after considering all the factors (wind direction and velocity, density altitude, terrain conditions, and any obstacles). Having operated out of many soft fields less than 750’ I can attest to the need to adjust accordingly.
Any additional thoughts?
Your DPE wants you to be firm and confident in your duties as Pilot In Command. I'm not saying what she did was right but as a PIC, think about what is required for a soft-field takeoff - Get off (gopher holes, etc) stay in ground effect and get to Vx and Vy. If the POH is ambiguous, you're right - ask. Barring that, use your best judgement and be confident in your decision to do what you did. You will eventually be out in the real world, alone or with family and the decisions you make will affect real life. Thank you for your honesty and a great video - this will go a long way towards helping other students prepare for the check ride. Remember, if the DPE signs off on you and you turn around and hurt someone then it's her butt on the line so they want to be confident in YOUR confidence lol. Fly safe and know we're rooting for ya! 800+ hour pilot here ;)
I think the fact that a short field takeoff calls for no flaps gave me the impression that it doesn’t help you get off the ground any sooner; or help the climb to a 50’ obstacle. But, at the end of the day you’re right. I am the pilot in command and my decisions won’t only affect me if they turn out to be hazardous. I have since obtained my PPl and continue to learn every time I fly. Thanks for the great feedback!
You had a tough DPE. Don't let it discourage you.
For sure. I took it on the chin and passed 3 weeks later. Been flying all over for months.
I’m getting ready for my private pilot check ride. Thank you for sharing this experience. It was not something easy to put out there but you had the self confidence to do it hoping that you may help someone else.
If we all were in the habit of sharing our failures some of us might be able to avoid them for ourselves. That’s the same reason I watch NTSB investigations all the time. Good luck on your ride! Let me know when you pass!
Pilot for a major airline here. You handled this like a champ, but the POH is the final guide for flap use on a soft-field. You do NOT have to use flaps. You could always appeal her decision with your FSDO, citing your POH and CFI’s guidance. Either way you decide to go, don’t worry about it. I have a friend with 3 checkride failures and another with 4; they both currently fly for Delta. Learn from your failures, and you will go far.
Very insightful.. I failed my short-field landing on a wet runway and had to go-around twice on my forward-slip to landing, during my checkride.
I am glad that you continue to remain positive, and took the time to walk us through the events.
Congrats on nailing your manoeuvres during your re-test and getting your private! Keep up the good work!
Thanks so much! I appreciate your support .
'It is better to make a mistake that makes you humble than achievements that make you arrogant'.
I made a mistake on my first solo out of the circuit pattern (to the practice area). I flew Terminal altitude within the control zone (airspace matters). In Canada they can issue a cador but they didnt.
So true! Arrogance has no place in aviation.
Congratulations bro. I am currently doing my flight training and there's much to learn. Keep trucking.
That’s an understatement! The learning never stops!
Just pulled the POH to look at the soft field procedure and you’re totally right. I would appeal the discontinuation. The use of flaps for the soft field is an “if” not a “must”.
I read it that way too. Not sure if the appeal is worth it? What do I really have to gain at this point?
@@CaptainCharlieBravo If you plan to pursue a commercial use of your license, I would 100% appeal it. Beyond that, if you ever crash and burn, blancoliro and Dan Milican and the rest of the peanut gallery reporting on your accident will cite “the pilot having a discontinuation on his record. Is that a contributing factor? We’ll never know 😉😉😉🤷♂️”.
Either way, I feel for you man.
I can't speak about the check rides these days because mine was in 1967. But from what I have read there are those CFI's and DPE's out there that want to show how great their skills are, and build hours at any cost. It is a disservice, to say the least, to all the study and training it takes. I was very fortunate to have one CFII for all my 40 hrs of training. He soloed me in 6 hrs ( I thought he was overly optimistic LOL) in a C-150. We did all the dual cross country training and my solo cross countries in an older Hershey bar Pa-28-140. My DPE lived in Dalhart Tx. I just barely had the 40 hrs when John sent me to Cecil Ingram for my check ride in the 140. The oral was, he said " plan a trip from Dalhart to Santa Fe NM in the PA-28140. It was summer. This was back when they had actual F.A.A. weather guys you could talk to next door to the FBO. Cecil looked over my flight plan and just said "I just wanted to see if you would have tried to fly over the mountains". We did all the required maneuvers, hood work etc, and the only thing I screwed up was a power off, 50 degree 180 . I stalled a Cherokee, such as a stall was in one. He just said, right before the stall warning lights and buzzers went off "your stalling it". I recovered from the stall, made a decent landing and as we were walking into the FBO, and he said "I hope you fly a little better from now on, you just have a license to learn."
No better feeling than earning that license to learn! Thanks for sharing your story!
You're going to make a fine Pilot. Very impressive knowledge for the actual hours flown. Good Luck. I watched this because I expected you have made a major mistake. Great advice. Tough inspector.
Thanks Don! I appreciate the kind words. I look forward to my continued training and growth.
Spot on Sir ,say know more
Wow. This is making me extremely nervous for my checkride...
You know, I was nervous until the actual day of the ride. The one thing I felt a little weak in was VOR tracking so the flight I took the day before was focused on that particular task. Is there anything in particular you’re nervous about? Steep turns? Power on/off stalls? Emergency decent? Let me know and I might have some tips that will help you nail it. When’s you’re check ride?
I actually don’t have a specific date for the check ride quite yet. The only requirement I have left is my long solo cross country. I’m not as concerned for the oral portion of the test but I’m mainly worried I’ll blow it on a steep turn or something. Thanks for the help.
Willing to bet failing a private pilot check ride, especially for something like this is not a black mark. Hang in there.
@@johnelliott4521 Not at all regardless of people telling you otherwise. What matters is 135 , 121 checkride's.
My POH says the same thing “no flaps for short field takeoff with obstacle”. My checkride is tomorrow so I will definitely be clarifying that with my DPE. Thank you for this video!
What happened? Did you pass? What did the examiner say?
Took a lot of guts for you to do this video so candidly and openly. Thanks for the lesson. Great advice. I'm planning to do my check ride in 3-4 weeks.
How’d your check ride go?!
@@CaptainCharlieBravo I made it! Thanks for asking. I will build some VFR hours before I start IFR training. Are you done also now?
Nice! Congrats! Since then I’ve got my tailwheel endorsement (which I highly recommend), and I passed my written for my instrument last March, moved to Kentucky, and just started up flying again last week. I just linked up with an instructor to start my instrument. Now at 135 hours and looking to take my check ride by the end of the year.
Never give up! a "mistake" is a learning experience.
It was an experience to remember!
My two cents:
a. Your DPE made the right call
b. You handled her decision (and your disappointment) professionally
c. I'm confident you know by now that your next check ride will be very short and completely successful -- and your learning journey will continue
Congrats and safe travels!
Thanks so much!
I took my check ride back in 1972 and my flight over to the examiner was my 40th hour. When I got there and he saw my log book he questioned me why I was there with only the bare minimum number of hours for the exam. I told him that my CFI said I was ready and go ahead and schedule it, so I did. He picked up the phone and called her. Now she was probably the most experienced CFI on the whole east coast if not the country at the time. She had over 25,000 hours as a CFI all in Cessna 150's and 172's. I could. hear her on the phone as she had a loud voice from the many hours in C-150's before the days of Bose and Dave Clark headsets. :-). She told him that I had scored a perfect 100% on my written exam and that she had instructed many thousands of pilots in her day and that I was the most natural pilot she had ever taught and that I was ready. My actual flight test was only about 20 minutes long. He passed me and sent me on my way. I think I did half the maneuvers I was prepared to be examined on. He laughed when we were done and apologized for doubting if I was ready and said Marge was right. I give all the credit to her though, as she was an amazing CFI and used to compete regularly in the PowderPuff event every year. I am 71 now and am sure she has passed away but R.I.P. Marge, clear skies and following winds.
That's awesome! My instructor was also very confident in my ability having sent me into the lions den with only 44. I felt ready, performed well, and showed up with my A game. Unfortunately the DPE didn't like the rules I was playing by. Lesson learned!
During a checkride for my Pilot in Command ride as a OH-58 Army pilot, I failed my checkride after a 12 hour day to include the oral exam, day flight, night , nap if the earth flight all with emergency procedures with a 100 mile cross country trek that was supposed to end once I landed the Senior IP at a specific site at 2100 hours. I landed at 2105, and was failed. Our standards are + or - 3 min.
I took it in stride, we did another checkride the next day and I passed. During my Army flight career I was failed on 2 flights after that, one was my fault the other was by a new IP who was cutting his teeth on me. It all goes to the saying, "What does not kill you makes you stronger!"
Precision is key! Especially when flying someone else's birds.
You explaining yourself experience shows you’re an intelligent individual, so I don’t fought you’ll ACE every check ride you do from here on out. I have to be honest, I was a bit distracted watching this video because you have one of the cutest dogs, lol👍
That’s my boy! He’s always trying to photo 💣!
As the old adagio says: making a mistake is human, persevering is evil. Thanks for your video it was very inspirational. Cheers from Italy
I’m glad you enjoyed it all the way in Italy! 🇮🇹 🌎 🇺🇸
Why is perseverance evil when all else fails perseverance prevails?
@@silverfoxidm because it does
I failed my PPL checkride. Passed on the second ride.
I failed my CPL checkride. Passed on the second ride.
I passed my IR on the first ride.
I failed my Instructor Rating checkride, passed on the second ride.
... I am now a 20,000 hour airline pilot.
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” ― Calvin Coolidge
Love me some Coolidge! Thanks for the encouragement!
For those wanting to skip to issue - it was a soft field takeoff without the 10 degree flaps. If you were training on 172, because that's such a training heavy aircraft, you'd have had 10 degrees everywhere. Does the 150 have soft field in the POH? Some of these POH's are light / short outside of a train heavy plane.
You handled the aircraft safely and knowledgeable. You explained WHY you did what you did, its not like a C150 needs over 2000' lol. She could've corrected your logic and sent you on your way IMO. Your Private is a ticket to continue to learn. Good luck next time!
Thanks for your support!
Congrats on passing. Was your instructor a young guy? Surprised he didn’t know the flap settings on a 150. pretty much standard practice to get an airplane as light as possible when taking off or landing on a soft surface (for any model). I commend you for sharing your experience. Check rides are something most every pilot remembers, good or bad. Good luck on you pilot career path.
My instructor was a 35 year pilot with 20,000+ hours. We read the POH, asked around and spoke to many other professional resources and there were a lot of mixed opinions on this. We collectively came to the conclusion it was discretionary and not mandatory, DPE didn't agree. Either way, it was corrected for, demonstrated, and deemed satisfactory on the second run. Thanks for taking the time to watch and share your thoughts!
My checkride was with a DPE that was known to be tough, which made me nervous. I fly out of HWD so I feel your pain on the busy airspace. What made me think I had blown the checkride was that on two occasions the examiner took control and showed me ways to execute maneuvers that were different than how I had been taught. I thought he was showing me the correct way to do them. Back on the ground I was sure I had failed. I was already anticipating the humiliation of facing my CFI. I was seriously upset. Turns out I passed. The examiner thought I flew well and was showing me new things. I was not expecting that! It really spun my head up. My CFI thought that was pretty funny. I was so relieved!
For everyone shitting on the DPE, it looks like she was correct according to the POH. No flaps is only recommended when there is a 50-foot obstacle.
C150M-1976 POH:
"Normal and obstacle clearance takeoffs are performed with flaps up.
The use of 10° flaps will shorten the ground run approximately 10%, but this advantage is lost in the climb to a 50-foot obstacle. Therefore the use of 10° flaps is reserved for minimum ground runs or for takeoff from soft or rough fields.
No shitting here...
But if you read that closely, it states "The use of 10° flaps will shorten the ground run approximately 10%, but this ADVANTAGE is lost in the climb to a 50ft. obstacle". That statement alone justifies use of flaps in the event that you're faced with a short field takeoff with no obstacles because a shortened ground run in that case would be an advantage; thereby making the use of flaps for short field operations discretionary.
Now to address the soft field takeoff...
The term "reserved for" does not translate the same as "required". As I explained in the video, there are aerodynamic principles that justify the use of flaps in certain scenarios. There may also be scenarios such as those you encounter in the backcountry of Idaho such as short fields, that are also soft, and may even have 50ft trees at the departure end. In this scenario it would be up to the pilot in command to determine what was the best risk mitigating configuration. In an underpowered aircraft such as the 150, 10° flaps at gross weight does affect the climb rate quite a bit. You may add 60-100 ft. on your takeoff roll without flaps, but you also might affect your climb rate as much as 200ft./min (or more in high density altitude situations). That difference could easily turn you into an ornament.
Dude, that DPE did you dirty. However, that experience will be great on your road to professional certs.
Couldn’t buy that kind of life lesson!
I passed my RPP check ride, but barely. During taxi, I forgot to check that my compass was free and floating, and that my heading indicator was tracking. It’s the small things like that that can almost fail you! Good luck!
Jonah Sohmer to be honest, I take pride in the fact that not everyone has what it takes to be a pilot. Being this hard makes it all worth it in the end. If it was too easy, I wouldn’t love it as much!
Nothing wrong with failing unless you quit. We learn the most from failures. If you practice what you failed and pass, then you win! I'm flying corporate at the same place for 15 years. I failed my CFI ride 20 years ago. I was devastated. It doesn't bother me now. I learned a lot from failing. Learn from it just like you said. Keep going forward.
Definitely not an endeavor for quitters. I too have learned a lot from my screw ups.
This is crazy, your video got recommended to me by the algorithm. I’m a 43 hr pilot about a few weeks away from my check ride so I click on your video and immediately notice the Verizon denim shirt. I worked at Verizon for 5 years as a solution specialist and left to pursue a career in aviation. Small world, great video man thank you!
Ol’ VZW…I hated those denim shirts. Lol. Good luck on your ride! Don’t rush, take your time, and give it your best.
I failed my instrument due to an improper hold, made me understand the concepts weren't clear to me and I should've spoken up when I didn't fully understand something. Very humbling experience indeed. Funny, I ask my instructor for a hold or two every time we get a chance now. And no training flights until May due to the virus, I better figure something out quick.
Bummer...good idea to keep current on the weak points. I practice each maneuver every time I fly now.
As a professional pilot , I can give honest feedback . There is some red flags. Most PPL ground , if going smoothly is minimum 45 min up to 2hrs max for most. Almost 4hr oral is very out of the ordanary . In fact i have never heard of it on a PPL . There was either some defincesies, or one oral from hell . The other thing is never never bring up to a DPE questions about training , or POH etc! . Here is why , that can open a whole new can of questions , discussions on the topic, that you now brought up. You let the DPE do the talking , questions, and answer in a standardized way to the ACS . If she want's more of a answer , information she will ask. Never dig yourself a possible hole . They are there to test you , not teach you. Unfourtantly i don't always agree with that , especially if something can be taught a safer way. However the FAA want's different. Keep at it buddy , and see you in the sky !
I'd agree that it was excessive. However, with the exception of the IACRA paperwork, everything else went great. She mentioned multiple times throughout the oral portion that she was very impressed by my knowledge considering my low hours. To clarify, I didn't bring it up to her until she told me she was disapproving the maneuver. My explanation for the configuration was that I was trained this way and my CFI and I reiterated this during the debrief. Even though the check ride isn't intended to be instructional, she did say she hoped to have at least taught me something by the end of it all. If what I was doing was truly unsafe, I think she would have intervened. That said, I did learn something! I went back a few weeks later and passed it no problem. Thanks for watching and taking the time to share your thoughts.
Caleb Niederhofer : Best advice for knowledge and hands on assessing I have heard. I work (use to work) in the petrochemical industry writing procedures and developing assessments to the procedures (overseas world-wide hence the use to). I am a Instrument engineer, assessor and assessor trainer. One thing I train my assessors is not to be a gap hunter. Some assessors think their job is to not to identify areas of improvement but trap people into making mistakes by forever open ended questions. I give my assessors all the tools necessary for an assessment including the questions and answers. They in turn should give it to the candidate. What’s the downside? Some say don’t instruct the test. My experience is what’s the harm because in the end I want them to know the information. If they pick up bad habits then it’s corrected before the assessment. IE turn valve A then Valve B. If they have been skipping turning valve B now they know the gap. By the time I get them to the field having them explain the procedure, they now have it right.
Hi Charlie. I felt your heartbreak man. I had a similar experience where I made an error in the traffic pattern and failed my first Private checkride too. Learn from it and more importantly, grow from it. Be a better pilot bcos of your errors. A good pilot is always learning, remember that.
True story. Months have passed now and so has the disappointment. Just a speed bump.
Examiner attitude is everything. If you get the wrong one, or if they are having a bad day, you will have a bad day - sad but true - but your mindset is also crucial. I was fortunate enough to pass all check rides on the first shot - private, commercial, instrument, multi-engine, CFI, CFII then all USAF UPT check rides. The one I looked forward to the most, and aced the hardest was commercial - I took it with a guy who was a former Polish AF MiG pilot. My goal was not just to pass - it was to inundate him with such an abundance of information (knowledge and performance) indicating that I was ready for those wings, that he would have no choice but to pass me. That's the same way I was given the opportunity to fly in the military - I joined a unit as an enlisted guy and no-kidding sent a letter to the wing commander - a one-star general - and told him in no uncertain terms that I was going to fly his jets. "Mysteriously" , 3 years later, even though I had not yet even applied for the pilot slot that opened, I was "somehow" already on the list. Even if you get an examiner who is a hard-ass, you can often win them over by overwhelming them with evidence of your confidence and preparation - don't ever be intimidated by an examiner or a ride - go in with the attitude that you are going to kick their ass and leave them no choice but to give you the wings you are pursuing.
It's a hard line to walk. On one hand you want to demonstrate your knowledge without appearing like a showoff, on the other hand the general consensus is less is more and to make the examiner dig if they want more out of you. I felt very prepared, ready to fly the maneuvers, but didn't have the sign of on how I was trained. I was actually excited for my ride and look forward to my future ratings and rides! Thanks for watching and taking the time to share your thoughts!
I just love that you own it. I'm studying for my checkride and close to 80 hours... Took 50 hours just to figure out my landings... I'm not happy with that but I got my landings down now..at least I'm not nervous about them anymore. Knowledge I got but memory is not my strong suit. My brain is fried now so I'm watching videos. Your oral sound horrid. Can't imagine flying after all that!
It turned out to be a good test of my nerves. I took on a heavy work load and kept my composure. Good to know for developing improved task management.
Interesting story. Sorry you failed, but you owned the results and I have infinite respect for you. Personally think that the examiner was pretty short about the event. It clearly wasn’t dangerous because she let you accomplish the maneuver without intervention. She could have discussed the matter with you on the spot and have you reaccomplish the takeoff. Then had a chat post flight to make sure you understood her concerns. I say all this because of your professional demeanor and attitude is that you are obviously all about learning and understanding.
I’m sure all this is behind you now and thanks again for the video.... best luck!
Thanks for your support! Yeah...I felt the same way. Apparently these DPE’s have had to be real tight because of how many students our pilot factories are putting through the system. I’ve even heard of some having their DPE being examined as well during their check ride so it could have been worse! 😬
Captain Charlie Bravo Giving a check ride is a hard thing to do, it requires you to extend quite a bit of judgement into a situation. My main focus is on attitude and demeanor, because that is the actual driver for current and future learning, as well as to the level of care and caution that one possesses in the air. Coupled with the fact the young pilot has been signed off and observed in a training environment by normally several other instructors, the default result should lean towards passing. Unfortunately, not all see it the way I do, and will down a pilot for one mistake. There is ALWAYS more to the story, on both sides. So take everything with a grain of salt. But watching your demeanor I would happily sit beside you on a four day trip and we could talk flying till we bleed. I wish this virus fiasco wasn’t screwing up our livelihood like it is, so time will tell on that. Have faith and hang in there. It’s an amazing profession, just weird as all getup.
I passed my checkride on the first try, but it was the most nerve-wracking experience I’ve had in my life to include two deployments to the Middle East, getting married, and having kids. Here are some things that got me through it:
1. You cannot be over-prepared or over-organized. Just don’t do it the point where you confuse yourself. This is not the time to be trying anything new. Have everything organized and tabbed.
a. Logbook (First solo, night takeoff and landing, cross country, most recent experience, and endorsements to include ground school)
b. FAR/AIM (Mine looked like a peacock in full strut. You need to know your stuff, or where to find it if you have a memory lapse)
c. Flight plan (I put my flight plan into a 3-ring binder, along with the ACS, weather information, pertinent pages copied from the POH, weight and balance calculations, and the menu from the airport restaurant of our target destination.)
d. Pilot Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge FA-H-8083-25B
e. Chart Supplement
2. I wrote down my passenger brief as a checklist and used it as part of the preflight - both during the flight plan portion of the ground school and as we went out to fly.
a. You’re supposed to treat your DPE like a passenger. I handed her a couple of airsick bags for “just in case.” This wasn’t a comment on my ability - it demonstrated I was prepared for an in-flight ‘event.’
3. I had the opportunity to do a mock checkride with the DPE well before I scheduled the actual test. The first thing she did after putting on her seatbelt was take out an emergency knife with a seatbelt cutter and clipped it to her shoulder strap. On the day of the checkride, I pulled out a (recently acquired) emergency knife with a seatbelt cutter and clipped it to my shoulder strap. She noticed, and said so.
4. The plane I was flying has a yoke clip to hold maps, checklists, etc. I made a sequential list of all the airports on the way to our destination with CTAF and AWOS frees. This was on a 3x5 card clipped to the yoke. As we progressed along the cross-country, I changed frequencies to match our nearest airport.
5. Analyze the cross-country route and try to anticipate when and where you will be diverted. Practice landing at that airport before the test so you are at least marginally familiar with the airport before test time (I guessed correctly, in case you were wondering.).
6. Look up the closest VORs that you may be directed to and write their frequency and identifier code on your 3x5 card along with the airport frequencies (above).
7. Above all, remember you are here because you want to be and your CFI is staking his reputation on his assessment of your ability. You already proved you can do this. Just prove it one more time. Good luck.
This entire comment is full of gold! I couldn’t agree with you more. Failure to prepare, is to prepare to fail. Thanks for watching and putting together such a thoughtful response!
Captain Charlie Bravo : Thanks for the comment. The part I didn’t mention is after the oral portion, the wind picked up. We had crosswind gusts up to 17 kts on the home runway. This is the tested crosswind limit (POH) of the C172 I was flying and way out of my comfort zone. The wind did not let up after several hours of waiting. I told the examiner that I wouldn’t go up in this by myself, and certainly wouldn’t do it taking someone with me. I took a deferral and passed the practical the next morning under much more favorable conditions.
I had to copy these tips for my next check ride. Thank you
Sometimes the DPE is the problem. A DPE failed me on my private checkride in the early 1970's and gave no clear reason why. My instructor, after conferring with the DPE, called me back and said he could not get a clear explanation either. During the checkride, the DPE was unusually quiet at one point. When I looked over at him, he appeared to be asleep! I just flew straight and level for a few minutes and he eventually woke up. I got about four hours more instruction before retesting and passed. A couple of years later I heard the DPE had his ticket pulled.
A good pilot friend of mine told me if you can make someone fall asleep while flying them anywhere then you’re a great pilot! The more boring the flight is, the better pilot you are.
@@CaptainCharlieBravo Thanks, I feel much better now ;-)
I'm still fairly early on in my training (just soloed!) and I've noticed the same lack of clarity for takeoff with flaps in the POH for the 172. Surprised that caused you to fail the entire checkride - but I'll definitely be brushing up on ALL of my knowledge as much as possible before I reach that point. It sounds like you had done the same, and from the comments it sounds like you may have had a VERY thorough DPE.
Congratulations on your solo! That’s the best feeling in the world. There’s general characteristics of aerodynamics that standardize configurations in almost all airplanes. It’s important to fully understand all of the variables you’re dealing with in each individual situation to ensure you mitigate as much risk as possible. When in doubt, ask. I wish you good luck and safe flying through your training!
When I took my check ride my CFI held me back until I had at least 60 hours as the local DPE was notorious for finding and accentuating flaws leading to the disapproval of candidates short of that experience level. Just sayin'. Appreciate the candor and detailed analysis.
Rick Randall yeah...I imagine some may be turned off by the thought of a 40 hour pilot. 🤔
That DPE is a money grubber. I had some DPE's that did the same thing, and they didn't work for me for very long.
Rick R That is BS. He is making you spend over 2 thousands dollars more even if you are good now at say 42 hours.
Loved your video. And boy would I have failed if I'd had that DPE. I showed up for my checkride in 1969, as it turned out, about 20 minutes short of the 40 hours that were required. The examiner said, "Oh, no problem; we'll call the first 20 minutes of the checkride as dual." And then the battery on the airplane was dead. Did I know how to prop a Cessna 150? Short answer: NO. Again, no problem, the examiner said he'd do the hand propping while he told me what to do inside the cockpit.
I did learn to use 10 degrees of flaps for soft fields, but all of that practice was from hard-surfaced runways. I remember taking my CFI to my uncle's ranch where the runways were dirt. He was very upset with me for not making a soft field landing. I thought that was the craziest thing ever: my uncle drove 100,000 pound water trucks over those runways and the trucks never left so much as a dimple in the surface. Trust me, those runways, as long as they weren't wet, were NOT soft. And on takeoff, the instructor again wasn't happy with me. I guess he didn't have much experience with dirt and gravel runways. You definitely DO NOT want to go to full power with the brakes locked. All that does is chew up the prop and gravel-blast the tail. I made a normal (for my uncle and me) takeoff, slowly, very slowly, advancing the throttle so the prop didn't suck up pebbles and small rocks, and again, as I said, the CFI wasn't happy with me.
I somehow managed to pass all of my checkrides (private, commercial, instrument, multi-engine, CFI, CFI-multi engine) on my first try (never got around to taking the CFI-I), but I think things were a lot looser in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Examples: I hardly got to handle the controls at all during my commercial checkride, and for my multi-engine ride, the examiner decided that he wanted to spend the time teaching me about weight and balance on the C-54 that he flew in the Air Force. (As I recall, the C-54's datum was in front of the nose: 20 feet, or 20 inches; that part I can't remember.)
Congratulations on passing the checkride on the second try. You sound like one heck of a pilot. I'm sure you'll do well.
One thing I learned, at least when checking out in a new airplane with a new instructor, was to always figure out exactly what the instructor was looking for. Early on, when flying with an instructor I'd never flown with before, I allowed the stall I was demonstrating to progress to the loss of control phase. That's how my primary instructor had always wanted me to demonstrate stall recovery: make sure the plane is really and truly in a deep, deep, stall. Well, that scared the daylights out of this new-to-me instructor. So from then on, I tried to get instructors to tell me, show me, demonstrate to me, what they were looking for. If stall recovery to them shouldn't happen until I was two turns into a spin, fine. If they thought it should happen at the first chirp of the stall horn, fine too. Just tell me what you're looking for.
Flying is mostly about judgement. Frequently what's in the book will be useful, but sometimes you have to figure things out on your own....like flap settings for takeoff from a really soggy grass strip in a Cessna 150.
Your last paragraph says it all. Good judgement makes good pilots. Period. There's nothing in the POH that says to invert big iron when you have a control failure...but I've seen the movie Flight. Denzel made it work! LOL!
Sorry about the soft field landing issues kinda a bad situation. I passed my private checkride today. Winds were 17kts gusting 23 but blowing direct down runway. Issue was we did the landings at the diverted airport and had to use the grass runway to avoid major crosswind and luckily performed it well. This is for sharing your story and keep chasing it. I think I saw a add in that you passed so congrats.
Those winds are way above what I’m comfortable doing on a checkride. That’s why I rescheduled since the winds were like 19G24 the day I originally had it. Knocked out the oral easy and finished flight portion 3 days later with ideal conditions.
Congrats on passing! Those winds are no joke...even being headwinds. I still haven't landed on a grass runway. That's on the list of goals for this year. I did pass! Thanks for sharing your story!
I'm a student pilot and have a long way to go before the checkride. Thanks for this informative video. It sounds like she has an issue or something given your tone of voice and the comments of other pilots below. Don't the instructors know about which examiners are ball busters and which are not? It sounds like the checkride is more about optimal test taking techniques than pure airmanship. My instructor is emphasizing "being one with the plane" and "getting a feel for the airflow". It sounds like your experience was more about the FAA bureacracy. Glad you eventually made it but I would have just turned the controls over to her and gotten another examiner.
Flying by feeling is OK but as you start stepping up into larger and more complex aircraft you really need to be able to fly things by the book. I’ve learned my lesson and look forward to that progression. Thanks for watching!
Takes major "'cohones" to post this. Best of luck going forward. This experience will make you a better pilot.
Haha! If you watch other RUclips aviators you'll here them mention that the context of a lot of their footage is lost when editing and it doesn't always show the errors they make. If my mistake helps another pilot, or potential pilot out there then my experience was worth it. We all get better when we share our learnings.
@@CaptainCharlieBravo 100% bro
I don't think it takes Cohones to tell a story about how you fail due to a grey area even the CFI would've failed. I've never seen someone in aviation own up to a real bad blunder because that could hinder a career if its found by employers.
I recently just got my Commercial MEL in February, prior to my disapproval I only had a single engine ILS left on my initial checkride and unfortunately botched it. DPE told me that all we had to do was just the single engine ILS retest and that was it. Afterward it did kick me and left me with a lesson to learn from. My private ride was about the same other than I botched a power off stall. Your DPE sounded almost like you were given a commercial checkride, oral of 3-4 hrs sounded pretty brutal, some stuff we do have to know but it's really a starting point. Keep up the work and never give up! Safe flying
For sure. It’s not the end of the world and I’ve learned such an amazing amount of information and technique in the last year it’s unbelievable. It’s crazy to think that it’s just the starting point but then again, that’s why I love it so much. Thanks for watching!
Many years ago I took my PP checkride in a 150. Pretty similar to what you described. My examiner acted rude, yelling, etc near the end of the checkride to see if I could be rattled. "OK taxi to the ramp." I thought oh shit this is bad... Once shut down he smiled and said congratulations, you passed!
The only thing I would say is that understanding soft / short field fundamentals is pretty important. I was taught from day one in the 150 that some flaps were always required. Of course I had the benefit of actually training into some short and soft grass fields...
You'll nail it next time.
I’ve heard of some pretty crazy stories on check rides. I’m glad I get to add mine to the book. I definitely agree that it’s a very critical phase a flight and I’ll take any and all lessons that make me a better pilot.
Thank you dude! Heads up, cheers from Portugal !
🇵🇹 🌎 🇺🇸 !!! Cheers!
I failed my FAA PPL written exam the first time and I’ve been scared to take it again so I know how it feels
Ouch! Don’t be scared, put your nose to the books and you can accomplish it! Let me know if you have any questions or I can be of any help. Good luck on your retest!
Like Bo below...I too am a private, USAF, NWA/Delta Captain with over 20,000 hrs., now retired. Great self-analysis and learning. You'll go far in aviation... from one aviator to another--all the best!
Thank you! 20,000! That’s awesome. What was/is your favorite aircraft to fly?
Contrats on getting that ticket! Over 500 hours and two airplanes later I can tell you that becoming a pilot is the most satisfying thing I've ever done . Keep testing yourself as a pilot. I went and learned sailplanes, too. It will make you a better powered pilot, believe me. And get a tailgragger sign off. Challenging and lots of fun. Good luck climbing the aviation ladder.
Thanks!!! I’ve got 6 hours in a Legend Cub and just waiting for my next flight for my CFI to sign off my tailwheel endorsement. I’m loving every minute of it all.