That's exactly what you shouldn't do.. There is nothing on the market in so far as mini nano digital boxes that can compete with a Player either as is stock or adding the 179 Euro level 2 uograde. You only really need level 2 at 179 Euros....that's the first set of one gig. You get all the Stage FX, all the Drives, the Fuzz system (which is genius), and Morphing. Dual 1/2 and 3/4 foot switching was added for free in the update.
Keep in mind that Kemper is a profiler and not a modeler. I think the term gets passed around from product to product regardless of the technology but if you really are looking for something that has tweakable models, then Kemper is not what you’re looking for.
Almost bought one this week, went for the Nano Cortex instead, glad I waited..hopefully others don’t go the route. If it was $50 then I would say reasonable but $300! No thanks
But does that comparison make sense? You can probably buy a used Player and add the upgrades for cheaper. And I see many people angry at this, so probably quite a few more are about to go on sale, despite no functionality being removed from what the people who bought them new, bought into... Besides, comparing the fully upgraded Player to the Stage, sure, the Stage still has features that the player lacks, but I'm sure for many the size/portability of the Player would be a more important factor for the particular use-case they are considering.
Your points are all valid. I only have a stage so don’t really have a dog in the fight. To me the player fits more in to that acs-1 or iridium space as part of a pedalboard setup. If I had a player I probably wouldn’t even bother upgrading it and use it just as an amp
@@matthewdavis473 sure, that’s one way of using it that makes a lot of sense, and that doesn’t require upgrading - particularly if you already own a stage. On the other hand, a more portable unit that can play the same full rigs can be a welcome addition if your budget allows, for example if you want to have a backup, or go light to some situations. I only have a Kemper toaster (bought before the release of the stage), sitting permanently on my desk; it feels like quite a hassle to take with me to a rehearsal or when playing with friends… I find myself just bringing my HX Stomp instead, despite generally preferring Kemper tones, so a Player has been on my radar since it’s launch, and the possibility of upgrading to full compatibility with the Toaster makes it even more compelling for me, despite the price tag (that I should find a way to justify to myself, as I’m much more of a hobbyist than a pro musician)
I know what i bought when i took the Kemper Player, with two blocs b/a, limited effects and limited banks. Now Kemper give me a chance to give me more, that's really cool. For those who compare PlayerV3 and Stage, i think the size will lead the choice... Or compare Used Kemper PlayerV3 price VS Used Kemper stage price, there always be a big difference.
Gheeez. For that price ? Yeah right. Sticking with my stomp lol 😂 FREE updates remember when stomp had less blocks? And upgrade to 8 blocks. It was free lol. Come on kemper get it together.
As an owner of a Stomp since it had 6 blocks, the update that took it to 8 blocks was very very welcome. But it was far from taking the Stomp to flagship Helix patch compatibility/parity, with it's 32 blocks limit. I'd gladly pay $300 for a software upgrade that did that -- or even just to 16 blocks as each of the 2 cores in the big units (the 1 core in the Stomp is supposed to be the same, I read?) -- and maybe gave me a few more than just 3 snapshots, that I could recall via midi or external footswitches... And I would much rather that be a paid software upgrade for the unit I already own, than a whole new Stomp-sized unit that's more expensive than the original Stomp.
well, it’s pretty clear what happened here. Kemper released the player and they didn’t sell enough of them to keep providing upgrades for free. line 6 is selling enough of them and the small changes that they make overtime. Keep the sales high enough that they can continue to provide free upgrades. so a company has to either sell their product in huge scale in which case they can provide free upgrades, or if they can’t do that then the upgrades will be paid. those are the two viable business models. I just think the whole thing is going to crash at some point because there’s so many used and nearly free options available that the competition won’t allow expensive gear to be made And sold at a Profit
I'm waiting for FM3 that is as powerful as FM9--that would be a game changer! If you could expand it with a 6 or 12-button footswitch attachment. That would be amazing: want a compact rig? want a full blown rig? one piece of gear would do it. Until then, FM3 is as powerful or "not" as powerful as a Pod GO.
FM3 is still (slightly) more expensive, though, or isn't it? Would you go for an FM3 over a Kemper Stage or Toaster, if money was no issue/they were similarly priced?
You can be sure that if Kemper makes money off this, other companies will quickly follow suit. All you need is one company to set the precedent. Apple removes a headphone jack, Samsung follows suit and so on.
It absolutely did no sense removing damn headphone output on phones, it's not minimalistic or neither more portable, it's just some guys idea, we had no chance but buy their phones.
I looked at Kemper as an option before I got my Helix. The big turnoff was Kemper saying they were not for Bass. Helix does both. Probably won't ever change to another manufacturer. Line 6 stays on top of support and updates.
Probably that was long time ago, Kemper does bass and has many factory profiles for bass, and even some features designed with bass in mind like parallel path (of course Helix can do that too, with much more flexibility, but the point is that it was added with bass in mind, not guitar).
What would have been smarter was releasing a new unit called the player plus for $1000-1100 that was the same hardware with the updates installed. Then wait 6 months to a year to release a $300 upgrade to the original player. I bet everyone would be saying how great a deal it was. It doesn't seem like Keeper understands the psychology of pricing.
I agree! Still, for the customer their upgrading option is much better, flexible, sustainable. But people don‘t understand… they would rather upgrade the hardware for 1100$ and would love it, than upgrading the existing device for a fraction of the price.
Should have upped the price on new machines by 100 and charged 99 to upgrade old units. 300 and the cheesy segmented tiers probably cost them more to program then it will make them in the long run
Regarding multiple units and paying for upgrade on each: Eventide did a great thing with H9 where having 1 H9 Max on your account let you "upgrade" up to 4 H9 Cores to the Max. Line 6 upgrade packs on POD devices also carried over to like-devices on your account. And, Line 6 often put the upgrade packs on sale. Seems like a nice balance.
Other brands do upgrades by releasing a new piece of hardware. And then the previous piece of hardware bombs in value. So upgrading software on the same piece of hardware is smart IMO...and you still get free updates. I'm betting the Player gets the 7 new Tremelo FX for free very soon.
I was looking at this Kemper too. For that reason alone. I will NOT buy a Kemper. Im a bass touring bass player... I dont need all that other extra garbage they have... I need an SVT , B15, Compressor, Octave, maybe Chorus, a few different cabs.. Thats it.. If LIne 6 Did a capture UNIT.. Id be in.. I run a HELIX at this time or my Ampeg Analog SGTDI with great results... KEMPER just got kicked to the curb for me
@@SteveSterlacci Yes, I currently use an HX Stomp or my Ampeg SGTDI. Ive had the HX out on debbie gibson tours and FOH was very happy.....But I did NOT use an amp sim.. Just comp, OCT, a clean tube pre sim.. Very simple into my REDDI DI. My issue with HX stomp is really HX EDIT.. I HATE the Sliders!!!! I dont know of many amps that use SLIDERS to make adjustments and the slider from 1-10. 5 is NOT really FLAT EQ. My friend has the newer Fender Tone modeler. I have not tired it yet.BUt the UI is great...Could use a bit more bass great.. I do like the HX stomp but the HX EDIT would be great if it used a KNOB bases UI similar to fractal for faster programming.
All the brands and features you listed, you don't need Line 6 to offer a capture. All those things are available across the entire Helix/Stomp product line.
@@johnbeamon I know that.. I've had the HX STOMP since it first came out. Their SVT is not a good SVT compared to some others... It lacks the key features of an SVT. ULTRA LOW, ULTRA HI, The stock SVT 810 is very dark sounding too. I have to use an IR.. Which is OK.. I think it sounds real good. 85% there..But its the HX EDIT that is not super friendly. What amp has SLIDERS to make tonal adjustments? Only a few 60s amps that I've seen. And even on the SLIDER, from 1 to 10.. 5 is NOT a FLAT position... Which makes on the fly changes cumbersome when in the heat of battle.. HX EDIT via USB could use an overhaul of GUI much like the newer Fender modeler has. IAs you know Line 6 and Ampeg are now owned by Yamaha. I recently bought a Macbook pro to use the Ampeg SVT SUITE Prog APP for shows...I'll be taking that out on my next run of shows later this year. FOr me teh HX EDIT makes the HX Stomp a real PITA to really dial in a usable sound for BASS .
Thanks for the thoughtful video for the most community that their money is valuable for them, and who seek for trustworthy manners from companies that they bought their products in the first place, and hoped to be satisfied. Bitwig tried to have add-ons on their DAW, and about %90+ of costumers chimed in, talked about how bad this practice is, and how dangerous it can escalated, and luckily the company changed their business model, and apologised and they no longer created paid add-ons. Same thing with a synth plugin Current, hey asked you to pay 10 bucks monthly just to use their basic synth plugin that is not even tangible, it's a software. People reacted, then they rethought and switched to rent to OWN, and buy option was added. I don't think Kemper will rethink their move, but I just hope people won't buy these upgrades. Another day, I appreciate more the real amps.
What do you think of the Tonex news? I just bought a $300 Tonex. Also, thats crazy to think that the Tonex 1 will do the same thing, making it a full effects processor/player in one tiny littlw pedal on the cheap!
This reminds me of your reaction to finding out the unit couldn’t profile. My take is, as an FM9 owner that wanted to add captures to the rig, the ToneXOne in the loop of the unit was amazing! As a former Quad Cortex user, my curiosity for the Nano got the best of me… now that unit is in the other loop of the FM9 😂 and I could be happier, I’m seriously considering selling the ToneXOne and getting another Nano because of the midi capability. Running a Wet/Dry/Wet rig on the FM9 now, and having the ability to capture other drive pedals I own or other people Amps for $550 is in my view the best deal of the bunch.
After listening to all the you tube videos on the Kemper upgrade If you only have the player and want to remain small then Do it.Both upgrades If you already have a stage ,toaster,or rack mount but have the player,I say no I bought the player for what it was ,something I can throw and fly or for tight areas I’m keeping it as is Just needed the midis switches to get quicker access to profiles and effects and tuner. Strip version perfect for that . That’s my take
I paid after thinking about it for a hour. I knew it was coming when I bought it, Kristoff said it when they launched, Kemper drive is very usable and the extra options are worth it, Now I need to figure out MIDI for the MC8 to use the looper. I use it a lot for practicing lead lines over chords in different keys . Still very compact all in one box now that I do not have to dumb down my presets from my toaster days. EVENTIDE H9 WAS THE SAME THING. , I PAID SOOOOO MUCH before the did the MAXOUT program. Core versus Max, I am sure they will start selling them maxed out and it will get all weird. Resale is no issue as they stay with the unit I think.
Thats fkn disgusting. You buy the hardware and its capable of these upgrades already then they should be included free when available!!!! Its like cars with air con but its disabled until you pay an upgrade. Absolutely shit move by Kemper
That upgrade should have been FREE. At 700 bucks, the hardware itself is a hard sell, since there's many other devices that are just BETTER and CHEAPER. Even 100 bucks would be TOO much, but people would still bite, that would have been reasonable at best. Now asking 300 bucks is just beyond NUTS!! This is NOT a 700 bucks device, it's a 1000 bucks device with opt out software NERF built IN!!!
was considering a second player as a backup then the nano cortex came out that gave me pause. Then levels came out that sounded exciting, then found out they will charge for each kemper. Thats a deal breaker for me. Too many other options to now consider.
In keyboard land, Roland has been doing this for a while. But the bit I hate ... If I understand it correctly... Is that you can't sell an upgrade you've purchased when you sell the unit you purchased it for.
Where are my Kemper player hackers? This reminds me of the ps5 pro debacle. Like you already mentioned, a grand can buy you a lot of nice stuff on the used market, or I would just go buy a brand spanking new FM3. Tone Junkie is a Kemper shill, I don't like making those type of statements but there should be no support for this as a business model
IDTS. As I say in the vid, the plug ins are a totally separate product that theyre saying if you want integration, you just need to own the plugin. This is saying "its been capable of this all long, now pay for the full use"
I see it differently. I want the Full ToneKing on my QC. They’re not putting a model of it on the qc, so if I want it I’m forced to buy it. Same for some of the effects. I don’t think it’s that different.
They should have offered their capture capability as a software program along with this upgrade. That would have given them a competitive edge... or at least a more equal edge.
$300 to upgrade a $700 box? That's a hard pill to swallow. If I was a betting man I would guess Kemper is either not making required profit margins on the hardware or the company is having cash flow problems, maybe both. You were spot on with the buy used suggestion. As for Tone Junkie, I rarely hear him criticize Kemper............😉
This is really a huge turn off for me. I really hope users do not support this kind of greedy business. Another great reason to love my Hx stomp! Great video Steve. I just ordered the tonex one to pair it with my hx stomp after watching your vids!! Can't wait to have that combo
I don’t have a Kemper but without the upgrades it does what you knew it does for the price you purchased for. You don’t have to upgrade but it looks like you get a lot for the money at least. I will say that I’ve always given tons of credit to Line 6 for big free updates. I do think that $300 is very steep.
I am not even playing anything Kemper right now but I don't really get it, they said openly that, on one of the first days, the hardware (DSP wise) it is the same but that there are limitations on the software and that future (paid) upgrades might happen. This is now happening - and it makes sense. Also Kemper not killing their larger products by basically offering a stage for less than half the money does make sense too. If you (while reading this) were running Kemper, would you give away your flagship product for less than half the money? I doubt it. Happy with what the player offers? Get the player without upgrades. Want everything? Get a stage. Want everything but don't care about the effects loop, do lots of fly gigs and don't need as many buttons etc? Get the player and the upgrades - still quite a bit cheaper (600?) than a stage. As for the comparison to the plugins - the Kemper (Head, Rack, Stage) have been around forever. Then the player happened - and it was quite different and they were pretty up front with it. But now you can make this go full circle in a tiny, and possibly all in one, rig which is pretty neat. And where is everybody complaining about Eventide doing this since basically forever? And it also does not mean that future upgrades (that Kemper has been doing since 2009 and kept shipping out upgrades and I can't imagine that they stop doing that going forward.
Got my first tube amp this month, and soldano astro 20. Modelers really aren't the same in feel, I can never go back to just using a modeler, and I've tried and played all
Screw Kemper. Every company is pulling this crap. The number of subscriptions and recurring charges the average person deals with now is a serious issue. It really adds up. Everyone should do themselves a favor and spend a couple hours identifying every single subscription/recurring charge. I just saved myself over $600 annually by cancelling stuff I don't even need...
Hopefully people don't buy it so it doesn't spread to other manufacturers. I think Kemper is similar to Apple though. They know their customers will buy anything they put in their face.
Feels like a kinda tone deaf move on their part. Their competition in the capture tech world is cheaper, sounds better, and is smaller than what they offer. They gotta focus on releasing a Kemper 2 or something to compete with the Tonex and QC instead of….whatever this is.
that is very bad lol. so what is the purpose of getting the $700 player only to do the upgrades and it costs the same as a regular kemper? it just doesnt make sense. $300? they are crazy. that puts the price at $1,000. ill stay with headrush lol its all you ever need anyway. the headrush core is $700 and the prime is like $1,000.
$300 is too much for features that should have been implemented in the first place. $50-$100 for both and I'd buy one right now. But $300? I'd rather buy a used Boss MS-3 for $350 and run the Kemper into it. (Actually I did and run a Tonex One into it) Shhhhhh. LOL. Best setup at ~$500-600 IMO. I have 3 loops, a Midi controller, Tuner, almost all of Boss's pedals and others like the 808. I believe it's 112 effects in total. 200 patches. Tons of outputs. I highly doubt there is a massive tonal shift between my setup, and the Kemper player with all feature updates that makes it $400-$500 better.
@@SteveSterlacci Yeah, I have a few pedals captures on here. SD-1, 808, ISP Theta Preamp pedal. Even a Two Notes Le Lead tube Dist pedal. I've got the Tonex One into Loop 2, and been mostly running a capture from Tone Wars of the Litchlearm Prometheus that I boost with a Peper's Dirty Tree for gain. With a second channel for leads with Delay, Reverb, and a volume boost. For cleans I have a capture of the Roland JC-120, with the chorus coming from the MS-3. I use the MS-3's noise gate after the loop. A parametric Eq after the loop to tame the high gain tone. Bit of compression before the gain on my lead channel. I've barely touched any capabilities I have. And it sounds great. SD Powerstage 170. Avatar Contemporary 4x12 with 2 - V30's 2 - G12T75's.
@@DigiArc It wouldn't make it a Stage. There are switching limitations as well as other limitations with the Player. So, the upgrades would not make it a Stage.
I can buy a Kemper Stage / Rack or Toaster for $800-900 on Reverb with relative ease and get most / all of these features, right? Where is the incentive to buy this $700 unit and bolt on $300 of soft-locked upgrades? I love Kemper but I hate cash grabs like this.
As an earlier adopter of QC & now the NC, I am not thrilled about a world where we have to pay for updates. That said, I foresee this approach as a stepping stone to something far worse. That is the direction that all software has gone, where you pay a monthly or annual service fee to lease the product. Think Microsoft Office, Adobe, etc… Not looking forward to that!
not a Player owner, own the powerhead, but have considered switching to a Kemper Stage, which at this point as you said, would be a better deal. On the topic of meaningful upgrades/updates, I am blind and use a screen reader, and with very little work Kemper, could make Rig Manager totally accessible to myself and others like me and open themselves up to another market/population. In fact, a friend and I contacted Kemper and gave them some tips on what needs to be done and an estimated timeline of about a day. If things don't go as expected, probably a week at most. What was their response? They aren't interested. Just disappointed to see these decisions from Kemper because their menu driven interface has the most potential for accessibility. On a human level, anyone who is watching this video would be devostated if they can't operate their gear and instruments independently tomorrow because their bodies broke down or if they lose a sense. As far as I am aware, musicians work at Kemper. Again, the lack of desire to do something that would make a difference and these odd upgrade structures is disappointing.
I've never purchased a Kemper product, and this has solidified that I never will, I would cease buying products from any company that follows suit on this "Upgrade" scheme. If it's in the hardware to do and it, if it's not available on day one, and not available by a free future software upgrade, it kind of shows that the company is a big POS and doing their customers a disservice by not providing the best product they can in the name of profit.
Let’s see what the other brands do. I’d rather charge 100 bucks more for the unit and keep the tier 3 option for 99$ locked to your account and keep customers coming back.
I got the device day one, and I also own a Kemper Stage. I was hoping this would become my live rig. No, it did not. I have now got a Neural Nano Cortex and ToneX for comparison. I just want something I can put a drive/fuzz/and wah in front of an call it a day. Hopefully, Neural doesn't charge to add some other reverb and delays in the software, but we shall see. That said, I hope that one of these can make my foot stomping a little easier in the live gigs ahead. The Stage would be my mainstay and this would be my smaller rig.
Another perspective to maybe see it from, is someone who paid full price for a Stage or toaster... If Kemper just handed over the full package for free, most of the stage/toaster owners would feel robbed and pretty hacked off ... this way, the player can be upgraded to "almost" equal, while still being a cheaper option. Some prefer the smaller footprint and don't need the extra foot switches, so they have the option to get everything they need for less. As for upgrading two with one upgrade, I can't see that happening... otherwise you'd just drop round to a friends house who's paid for the upgrade, hook up and give the friend a donation for turbocharging yours... And I'm no shill btw, I'm actually pretty pissed that after all the time I've been waiting for the Windows Asio driver, for me, it installs but won't load. Keeps telling me to check that my device is connected to my my computer, where it's been connected and working for over 9 months.... Helix didn't sound as good, but at least when they release stuff it does work! 🤬
Exactly. And I'm surprised Neural is making it's way up in my list of respectable guitar modeller companies. Despite the poorly calculated money grab that the Nano cortex is of course 😂
@rejuvenator8966 I'm in the camp that likes nano. I've been so critical of qc on the channel. Like VERY. But nano is cool for what it is IMO. As long as they don't over promise and under deliver lol
@@SteveSterlacci Fair enouh! I'm a QC user that has some gripes with the unit and Neural, but yet I still own the thing and gig with it cause it ticks many boxes for me and sounds good
It's a pity RUclips influencers didn't take 10 seconds of their precious time to read the Kemper website. "The Kemper Profiler Player now also lives in the Paradigm, the Philosophy of the original Kemper Profilers". "NOTE: Of course the Level UPGRADES do not replace the traditional free software and feature UPDATES tradition. The LVL UPGRADES are just an offer to optionally enhance the feature menu towards the bigger units".
Not really sure of the point here. Yes, everyone knows updates and upgrades are separated. Yes we knew paid was on the table. That being said, the baiting into needing both and charging 300 for it is the issue. It's a pity a viewer didn't watch the video before commenting 🤔
@@SteveSterlacci lol, I watch all your videos, you're great. 👍 I agree, price is too high...but I'm looking forward to see what free updates are coming soon.
@guitartoneSA very much appreciated! I'm hoping they offer a deal on the upgrade. I don't NEED it. But with all the interest, it'd make for good content for sure.
I view this in two ways, on one hand I don’t condone this kind of thing but saying it opens precedents when you’ve had this for ages in DAWs is just shortsighted… I still don’t like it. On the other hand I owned ALL of the modelers and Kemper, for me, still has the best sound around, better than HX, better than Neural on some avenues and on par with Fractal. BUT Kemper’s technology is showing its age. Now… I play and practice at home and I play live, I’ve toured Europe with an HX Stomp and the KPP, it’s not even close. What I like is that for what you paid you have a perfectly fine modeler, you don’t need to upgrade. Is it a douchey move? Yes. Would it be pricier if they made it 100% feature stacked from the get go? Also yes. It’s still cheaper than the stage BUT you can get the stage used for the same price of a full featured KPP… The thing I like is that if I go play with my Deathcore band, I only take the KPP. If I go play with my cover band, I add the midi captain and the expression pedal so I like this module model. What I think is wrong is the pricing. At most every upgrade should’ve been 100 bucks. At most!
Expect it to expand. Greed is now the mantra for many businesses in any industry and more so in this time. Once one does it the others will probably soon follow.
Screwing your customers is never a good business model. Very short sighted in my opinion.
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For me, who have the Kemper Player, level 2 would make sense. I’ve already had the Kemper stage and I miss the Morph function, but 180 dollars for that? No. Thank you.
Damn, I own a power amp kemper and quite happy with it, and always recommended friends to get it because of how the company is owned by people that are not greedy. I was just checking the player for a friend, and saw LEVEL 2 and 3 and honestly checked if it was April fools, this is a really greedy and dumb move on Kemper's behalf, hope no one buys this crap. Better of getting that DNA or Harley Benton.
The Player was supposed to be a pedal platform unit and now they are offering upgrades to make it an all in one unit if you want which is still $600 cheaper than the Stage with all the same features. Kemper has the same hardware as its initial release and has always given free updates. This seems like a non issue to me as a Stage owner who has a Player as a back up.
One of the reasons we adopted modelers and profilers was the expectation of updates during the time life of the product, we should go back to the basics, do we need a thousand sounds? This is the best time to craft your sound with the tools we currently have, let’s not play this game, don’t pay for the upgrades, less GAS more playing,
This is exactly why stuff like Helix has still been selling. People see a 10 year old unit that got a pile of new effects 6 months ago and are reassured the device won't be mothballed.
Im a Kemper user and I’m so disappointed on charging for the upgrades I don’t think is fair. I’m also a Fractal and Fender pro master user and their upgrades are free I’ll stay with the Kemper stage is easy to carry and there’s no need for paying upgrades I hope it’s stay like that
This kind of practice has been rife in the automotive where cars are delivered with features but they're inactive unless you pay for them. Our a subscription (BMW heated seats !1!!! ). But if the player and upgrades is the same as a used head/rack/stage - and it doesn't profile ?....... Nope. Maybe profiling in Rig Manager will be the next upgrade.
I think it's a bad precedent. I feel like it's then not a far leap to go to a subscription model after that, but they'd have to commit to putting out a set number of upgrades. None of that is so compelling to me. QC and Kemper for whatever reason just never appealed to me at all. Line 6, Boss, and Headrush are the current units I use and like.
So even after upgrading to Level 3, you still have just a player that can’t profile. You need to then purchase or find quality profiles online and can’t make your own profiles unless you also already own a Toaster or a Stage at which point, who cares about the Player.
I used to own a Kemper for many years and loved it, I'll probably never buy one again, there's better options out there and they haven't kept up with the industry very well.
Absolutely not. Kemper are getting roasted for this. And for good reason. Also, I don’t think anyone should buy digital gear because of what it COULD be. You have to be 100% content with hour it is at launch because if you buy it hoping it can do something more eventually, you’ll end up like all the disgruntled quad cortex users who bought those early and were expecting timely delivery of editor software and plugin support.
I agree. Support and updates are a plus, not a feature. I don’t like what Kemper has done as it sets a precedent, but they see it as an upgrade, not an update.
Do not buy! Do not set a precedence! Support Line6 and Fractal instead.
I own two. Per Kemper Support, you have to buy each upgrade PER UNIT, not per account. INSANE.
Oh that's *bonkers*
Yeah, I'm done with Kemper.
That is EXTREMELY frustrating
@@sarahandthesafeword6632 This is probably the worst thing the Germans have ever done!
scam for me
I'm getting ready to buy a new modeler and was considering Kemper... I'm gonna look at other options.
If you do, go with the stage IMO. But, I understand if this is just a huge turn off to the brand...
That's exactly what you shouldn't do..
There is nothing on the market in so far as mini nano digital boxes that can compete with a Player either as is stock or adding the 179 Euro level 2 uograde.
You only really need level 2 at 179 Euros....that's the first set of one gig.
You get all the Stage FX, all the Drives, the Fuzz system (which is genius), and Morphing.
Dual 1/2 and 3/4 foot switching was added for free in the update.
Keep in mind that Kemper is a profiler and not a modeler. I think the term gets passed around from product to product regardless of the technology but if you really are looking for something that has tweakable models, then Kemper is not what you’re looking for.
@@Jason-Taylor
You think you can't tweak the Kemper Profiles?
You sure can...
@SteveSterlacci or go with the maxed out Player and a midi controller and save $500 over the stage.
Smart move from Kemper....Tonex buyers will increase ten times 😆
Almost bought one this week, went for the Nano Cortex instead, glad I waited..hopefully others don’t go the route. If it was $50 then I would say reasonable but $300! No thanks
yep. A never, ever product for me. Thanks Kemper. You made the decision abundantly easy.
yup... glad I didn't buy one !!
@@YesItsReallyKeith It's a stupid product to begin with. Wither go full digital or don't.
The first thing I thought when I heard this was that you could get a used stage for the price of the unit and both upgrades. Glad you made that point
But does that comparison make sense? You can probably buy a used Player and add the upgrades for cheaper. And I see many people angry at this, so probably quite a few more are about to go on sale, despite no functionality being removed from what the people who bought them new, bought into...
Besides, comparing the fully upgraded Player to the Stage, sure, the Stage still has features that the player lacks, but I'm sure for many the size/portability of the Player would be a more important factor for the particular use-case they are considering.
Your points are all valid. I only have a stage so don’t really have a dog in the fight. To me the player fits more in to that acs-1 or iridium space as part of a pedalboard setup. If I had a player I probably wouldn’t even bother upgrading it and use it just as an amp
@@matthewdavis473 sure, that’s one way of using it that makes a lot of sense, and that doesn’t require upgrading - particularly if you already own a stage.
On the other hand, a more portable unit that can play the same full rigs can be a welcome addition if your budget allows, for example if you want to have a backup, or go light to some situations.
I only have a Kemper toaster (bought before the release of the stage), sitting permanently on my desk; it feels like quite a hassle to take with me to a rehearsal or when playing with friends… I find myself just bringing my HX Stomp instead, despite generally preferring Kemper tones, so a Player has been on my radar since it’s launch, and the possibility of upgrading to full compatibility with the Toaster makes it even more compelling for me, despite the price tag (that I should find a way to justify to myself, as I’m much more of a hobbyist than a pro musician)
I know what i bought when i took the Kemper Player, with two blocs b/a, limited effects and limited banks. Now Kemper give me a chance to give me more, that's really cool. For those who compare PlayerV3 and Stage, i think the size will lead the choice... Or compare Used Kemper PlayerV3 price VS Used Kemper stage price, there always be a big difference.
Gheeez. For that price ? Yeah right. Sticking with my stomp lol 😂 FREE updates remember when stomp had less blocks? And upgrade to 8 blocks. It was free lol. Come on kemper get it together.
As an owner of a Stomp since it had 6 blocks, the update that took it to 8 blocks was very very welcome. But it was far from taking the Stomp to flagship Helix patch compatibility/parity, with it's 32 blocks limit. I'd gladly pay $300 for a software upgrade that did that -- or even just to 16 blocks as each of the 2 cores in the big units (the 1 core in the Stomp is supposed to be the same, I read?) -- and maybe gave me a few more than just 3 snapshots, that I could recall via midi or external footswitches... And I would much rather that be a paid software upgrade for the unit I already own, than a whole new Stomp-sized unit that's more expensive than the original Stomp.
I was considering buying a player but not now!! I won't buy a Kemper product because of this!! line 6 did this right!! Ty Steve for sharing this!!
Now we need fractal and line6 to offer capture type tech. If they do they will be forever GOATED
I'm really shocked Line 6 hasn't already done that.
well, it’s pretty clear what happened here. Kemper released the player and they didn’t sell enough of them to keep providing upgrades for free. line 6 is selling enough of them and the small changes that they make overtime. Keep the sales high enough that they can continue to provide free upgrades. so a company has to either sell their product in huge scale in which case they can provide free upgrades, or if they can’t do that then the upgrades will be paid. those are the two viable business models. I just think the whole thing is going to crash at some point because there’s so many used and nearly free options available that the competition won’t allow expensive gear to be made And sold at a Profit
Better buy an FM3 at that end price.
I'm waiting for FM3 that is as powerful as FM9--that would be a game changer! If you could expand it with a 6 or 12-button footswitch attachment. That would be amazing: want a compact rig? want a full blown rig? one piece of gear would do it.
Until then, FM3 is as powerful or "not" as powerful as a Pod GO.
FM3 is still (slightly) more expensive, though, or isn't it? Would you go for an FM3 over a Kemper Stage or Toaster, if money was no issue/they were similarly priced?
@@fedest for that money I’d buy a Helix lt for under 900 dollars.
You can be sure that if Kemper makes money off this, other companies will quickly follow suit. All you need is one company to set the precedent. Apple removes a headphone jack, Samsung follows suit and so on.
This
It absolutely did no sense removing damn headphone output on phones, it's not minimalistic or neither more portable, it's just some guys idea, we had no chance but buy their phones.
I looked at Kemper as an option before I got my Helix. The big turnoff was Kemper saying they were not for Bass. Helix does both. Probably won't ever change to another manufacturer. Line 6 stays on top of support and updates.
Probably that was long time ago, Kemper does bass and has many factory profiles for bass, and even some features designed with bass in mind like parallel path (of course Helix can do that too, with much more flexibility, but the point is that it was added with bass in mind, not guitar).
What would have been smarter was releasing a new unit called the player plus for $1000-1100 that was the same hardware with the updates installed. Then wait 6 months to a year to release a $300 upgrade to the original player. I bet everyone would be saying how great a deal it was. It doesn't seem like Keeper understands the psychology of pricing.
I agree! Still, for the customer their upgrading option is much better, flexible, sustainable. But people don‘t understand… they would rather upgrade the hardware for 1100$ and would love it, than upgrading the existing device for a fraction of the price.
(after seeing so many "YOU DONT NEED A TUBE AMP" "END OF TUBE AMPS" videos show up on YT...) Goes back to playing his EVH5150III...
Should have upped the price on new machines by 100 and charged 99 to upgrade old units. 300 and the cheesy segmented tiers probably cost them more to program then it will make them in the long run
Regarding multiple units and paying for upgrade on each: Eventide did a great thing with H9 where having 1 H9 Max on your account let you "upgrade" up to 4 H9 Cores to the Max. Line 6 upgrade packs on POD devices also carried over to like-devices on your account. And, Line 6 often put the upgrade packs on sale. Seems like a nice balance.
just upgraded to level 3, no regrets...
Don’t give them a cent
If other companies see this being successful they’ll all do it
Other brands do upgrades by releasing a new piece of hardware.
And then the previous piece of hardware bombs in value.
So upgrading software on the same piece of hardware is smart IMO...and you still get free updates.
I'm betting the Player gets the 7 new Tremelo FX for free very soon.
I was looking at this Kemper too. For that reason alone. I will NOT buy a Kemper. Im a bass touring bass player... I dont need all that other extra garbage they have... I need an SVT , B15, Compressor, Octave, maybe Chorus, a few different cabs.. Thats it..
If LIne 6 Did a capture UNIT.. Id be in.. I run a HELIX at this time or my Ampeg Analog SGTDI with great results... KEMPER just got kicked to the curb for me
Makes sense on all counts. HX Stomp may be best for ya
@@SteveSterlacci Yes, I currently use an HX Stomp or my Ampeg SGTDI. Ive had the HX out on debbie gibson tours and FOH was very happy.....But I did NOT use an amp sim.. Just comp, OCT, a clean tube pre sim.. Very simple into my REDDI DI.
My issue with HX stomp is really HX EDIT.. I HATE the Sliders!!!!
I dont know of many amps that use SLIDERS to make adjustments and the slider from 1-10. 5 is NOT really FLAT EQ.
My friend has the newer Fender Tone modeler. I have not tired it yet.BUt the UI is great...Could use a bit more bass great..
I do like the HX stomp but the HX EDIT would be great if it used a KNOB bases UI similar to fractal for faster programming.
All the brands and features you listed, you don't need Line 6 to offer a capture. All those things are available across the entire Helix/Stomp product line.
@@johnbeamon I know that.. I've had the HX STOMP since it first came out. Their SVT is not a good SVT compared to some others... It lacks the key features of an SVT. ULTRA LOW, ULTRA HI, The stock SVT 810 is very dark sounding too. I have to use an IR.. Which is OK.. I think it sounds real good. 85% there..But its the HX EDIT that is not super friendly.
What amp has SLIDERS to make tonal adjustments? Only a few 60s amps that I've seen.
And even on the SLIDER, from 1 to 10.. 5 is NOT a FLAT position... Which makes on the fly changes cumbersome when in the heat of battle..
HX EDIT via USB could use an overhaul of GUI much like the newer Fender modeler has.
IAs you know Line 6 and Ampeg are now owned by Yamaha.
I recently bought a Macbook pro to use the Ampeg SVT SUITE Prog APP for shows...I'll be taking that out on my next run of shows later this year.
FOr me teh HX EDIT makes the HX Stomp a real PITA to really dial in a usable sound for BASS .
@@svtbassI had a hard time with hx stomp I owned with my bass..I just went with quad. Glad I did.
Thanks for the thoughtful video for the most community that their money is valuable for them, and who seek for trustworthy manners from companies that they bought their products in the first place, and hoped to be satisfied. Bitwig tried to have add-ons on their DAW, and about %90+ of costumers chimed in, talked about how bad this practice is, and how dangerous it can escalated, and luckily the company changed their business model, and apologised and they no longer created paid add-ons. Same thing with a synth plugin Current, hey asked you to pay 10 bucks monthly just to use their basic synth plugin that is not even tangible, it's a software. People reacted, then they rethought and switched to rent to OWN, and buy option was added. I don't think Kemper will rethink their move, but I just hope people won't buy these upgrades. Another day, I appreciate more the real amps.
You have to pay for each unit... and if one is broken, warranty issue, the upgrade cost is lost...
Wow that's another thing... Never thought of that.
What do you think of the Tonex news? I just bought a $300 Tonex. Also, thats crazy to think that the Tonex 1 will do the same thing, making it a full effects processor/player in one tiny littlw pedal on the cheap!
I'm super excited about it! I got an early access download I've gotta dive into
I wonder you buy these can you transfer them to the new owner if you sold it?
More curious if you can transfer it to a new unit if you have to get a broken one replaced because your current one broke.
This reminds me of your reaction to finding out the unit couldn’t profile.
My take is, as an FM9 owner that wanted to add captures to the rig, the ToneXOne in the loop of the unit was amazing! As a former Quad Cortex user, my curiosity for the Nano got the best of me… now that unit is in the other loop of the FM9 😂 and I could be happier, I’m seriously considering selling the ToneXOne and getting another Nano because of the midi capability.
Running a Wet/Dry/Wet rig on the FM9 now, and having the ability to capture other drive pedals I own or other people Amps for $550 is in my view the best deal of the bunch.
You can also use tonex 1 as 2 drive pedals that arent in fractal and get to use both!
@@SteveSterlacci but you could also profile those drives in the Cortex Nano and use two Nanos! 😆
Lot of people will leave Kemper due to this stupid move by Kemper - anyone else agree ?
the problem its that a lot of people are buying the lvls....the thinks this is supporting the company but they are just affecting the kemper users
Nope!
Why would I leave Kemper over this? Strange idea when the gear does what I want. Music making is no.1 for me.
I think people who own one will keep using it.
So does the paid upgrade stay with the unit when you sell it?
Great question, idk
Yes it does. Its loaded on Serial No.
I was going to buy a Kemper. But now, not a chance.
After listening to all the you tube videos on the Kemper upgrade
If you only have the player and want to remain small then
Do it.Both upgrades
If you already have a stage ,toaster,or rack mount but have the player,I say no
I bought the player for what it was ,something I can throw and fly or for tight areas
I’m keeping it as is
Just needed the midis switches to get quicker access to profiles and effects and tuner.
Strip version perfect for that .
That’s my take
Great comment and analysis!
I paid after thinking about it for a hour. I knew it was coming when I bought it, Kristoff said it when they launched, Kemper drive is very usable and the extra options are worth it, Now I need to figure out MIDI for the MC8 to use the looper. I use it a lot for practicing lead lines over chords in different keys . Still very compact all in one box now that I do not have to dumb down my presets from my toaster days. EVENTIDE H9 WAS THE SAME THING. , I PAID SOOOOO MUCH before the did the MAXOUT program. Core versus Max, I am sure they will start selling them maxed out and it will get all weird. Resale is no issue as they stay with the unit I think.
What's next, subscriptions? I'm not going to be nickled and and dimed to death, forget that. No Kemper products for me.
Thats fkn disgusting.
You buy the hardware and its capable of these upgrades already then they should be included free when available!!!!
Its like cars with air con but its disabled until you pay an upgrade.
Absolutely shit move by Kemper
I'm sure I saw on one of the other forums that you will have to pay per unit.
$300 is too much, its as simple as that. $200 would have been far more reasonable.
That upgrade should have been FREE.
At 700 bucks, the hardware itself is a hard sell, since there's many other devices that are just BETTER and CHEAPER.
Even 100 bucks would be TOO much, but people would still bite, that would have been reasonable at best. Now asking 300 bucks is just beyond NUTS!!
This is NOT a 700 bucks device, it's a 1000 bucks device with opt out software NERF built IN!!!
Total scam move. Hopefully they're taught enough of a lesson that no other company tries this crap.
I was seriously considering buying a player. Very glad I waited. If I wanted into the kemper ecosystem now I would look at a used stage
Kemper: the free ride is over
was considering a second player as a backup then the nano cortex came out that gave me pause. Then levels came out that sounded exciting, then found out they will charge for each kemper. Thats a deal breaker for me. Too many other options to now consider.
And here I was thinking the only horrible choices they made was on the cosmetics 🤣🤣.
If you buy a new one, does the upgrade come with it? Hell this adds up to the price of a full profiler, almost
Nope. It comes stock and you buy the upgrade
In keyboard land, Roland has been doing this for a while. But the bit I hate ... If I understand it correctly... Is that you can't sell an upgrade you've purchased when you sell the unit you purchased it for.
Where are my Kemper player hackers? This reminds me of the ps5 pro debacle. Like you already mentioned, a grand can buy you a lot of nice stuff on the used market, or I would just go buy a brand spanking new FM3. Tone Junkie is a Kemper shill, I don't like making those type of statements but there should be no support for this as a business model
I sent my FM3 back I now have a Kemper Player which even with the paid software upgrades is $467.98 cheaper than an FM3 here in Great Britain.
@@alien4422can you please share where did you get it for that price? I'd be actually interested...
@@danielferrera8773 The Kemper Player is £620 and the FM3 is £1200 in the UK. The Kemper software upgrades are £250.
Well, Kemper didn't do well, if I had known that they would charge such a high price for the update, I would have bought Nano Cortex!!
@@ShreddingFinn custom/homebrew roms wen...
As a practical matter, is this really all that different from NDSP forcing us to buy certain plugins to have certain amps or effects on the QC?
IDTS. As I say in the vid, the plug ins are a totally separate product that theyre saying if you want integration, you just need to own the plugin. This is saying "its been capable of this all long, now pay for the full use"
I see it differently. I want the Full ToneKing on my QC. They’re not putting a model of it on the qc, so if I want it I’m forced to buy it. Same for some of the effects. I don’t think it’s that different.
They should have offered their capture capability as a software program along with this upgrade. That would have given them a competitive edge... or at least a more equal edge.
I think so too!
What if they sell these upgrades, then decide now they’re free, do you get your money back?
$300 to upgrade a $700 box? That's a hard pill to swallow. If I was a betting man I would guess Kemper is either not making required profit margins on the hardware or the company is having cash flow problems, maybe both. You were spot on with the buy used suggestion. As for Tone Junkie, I rarely hear him criticize Kemper............😉
This is really a huge turn off for me. I really hope users do not support this kind of greedy business. Another great reason to love my Hx stomp! Great video Steve. I just ordered the tonex one to pair it with my hx stomp after watching your vids!! Can't wait to have that combo
I don’t have a Kemper but without the upgrades it does what you knew it does for the price you purchased for. You don’t have to upgrade but it looks like you get a lot for the money at least. I will say that I’ve always given tons of credit to Line 6 for big free updates. I do think that $300 is very steep.
I am not even playing anything Kemper right now but I don't really get it, they said openly that, on one of the first days, the hardware (DSP wise) it is the same
but that there are limitations on the software and that future (paid) upgrades might happen.
This is now happening - and it makes sense.
Also Kemper not killing their larger products by basically offering a stage for less than half the money does make sense too.
If you (while reading this) were running Kemper, would you give away your flagship product for less than half the money?
I doubt it.
Happy with what the player offers?
Get the player without upgrades.
Want everything?
Get a stage.
Want everything but don't care about the effects loop, do lots of fly gigs and don't need as many buttons etc?
Get the player and the upgrades - still quite a bit cheaper (600?) than a stage.
As for the comparison to the plugins - the Kemper (Head, Rack, Stage) have been around forever.
Then the player happened - and it was quite different and they were pretty up front with it.
But now you can make this go full circle in a tiny, and possibly all in one, rig which is pretty neat.
And where is everybody complaining about Eventide doing this since basically forever?
And it also does not mean that future upgrades (that Kemper has been doing since 2009 and kept shipping out upgrades and I can't imagine that they stop doing that going forward.
I live close to Nashville and find stages was low as 800 all the time. Usually it’s about 900 but you can still get em at 800.
I dont doubt it. I see on FB market all the time under 1k
This is like paying for DLC that should be main game content.
glad I dumped my kemper and went back to tube amps. Make amps great again
you have my vote
Got my first tube amp this month, and soldano astro 20. Modelers really aren't the same in feel, I can never go back to just using a modeler, and I've tried and played all
Well if i was previously on the fence about getting one, im definitely not anymore.
Screw Kemper. Every company is pulling this crap. The number of subscriptions and recurring charges the average person deals with now is a serious issue. It really adds up. Everyone should do themselves a favor and spend a couple hours identifying every single subscription/recurring charge. I just saved myself over $600 annually by cancelling stuff I don't even need...
Kemper screw the Players owner witrh that update
Hopefully people don't buy it so it doesn't spread to other manufacturers. I think Kemper is similar to Apple though. They know their customers will buy anything they put in their face.
Feels like a kinda tone deaf move on their part. Their competition in the capture tech world is cheaper, sounds better, and is smaller than what they offer. They gotta focus on releasing a Kemper 2 or something to compete with the Tonex and QC instead of….whatever this is.
that is very bad lol. so what is the purpose of getting the $700 player only to do the upgrades and it costs the same as a regular kemper? it just doesnt make sense. $300? they are crazy. that puts the price at $1,000. ill stay with headrush lol its all you ever need anyway. the headrush core is $700 and the prime is like $1,000.
$300 is too much for features that should have been implemented in the first place. $50-$100 for both and I'd buy one right now. But $300? I'd rather buy a used Boss MS-3 for $350 and run the Kemper into it. (Actually I did and run a Tonex One into it) Shhhhhh. LOL. Best setup at ~$500-600 IMO. I have 3 loops, a Midi controller, Tuner, almost all of Boss's pedals and others like the 808. I believe it's 112 effects in total. 200 patches. Tons of outputs. I highly doubt there is a massive tonal shift between my setup, and the Kemper player with all feature updates that makes it $400-$500 better.
Tonex 1 for modeling drive pedals is so good too. I agree with the pricing assessment
@@SteveSterlacci Yeah, I have a few pedals captures on here. SD-1, 808, ISP Theta Preamp pedal. Even a Two Notes Le Lead tube Dist pedal. I've got the Tonex One into Loop 2, and been mostly running a capture from Tone Wars of the Litchlearm Prometheus that I boost with a Peper's Dirty Tree for gain. With a second channel for leads with Delay, Reverb, and a volume boost. For cleans I have a capture of the Roland JC-120, with the chorus coming from the MS-3. I use the MS-3's noise gate after the loop. A parametric Eq after the loop to tame the high gain tone. Bit of compression before the gain on my lead channel. I've barely touched any capabilities I have. And it sounds great. SD Powerstage 170. Avatar Contemporary 4x12 with 2 - V30's 2 - G12T75's.
Why would you say it “should have been included”? You want the $1500 Stage for $700? Ridiculous.
@@DigiArc It wouldn't make it a Stage. There are switching limitations as well as other limitations with the Player. So, the upgrades would not make it a Stage.
Isn’t this a bit like the Eventide H9 approach?
Line 6 had something similar I believe--you get the "metal pack" or something?
Yes
Not in the recent HX line...
Those were plugins not Helix upgrades.
@@SteveSterlacciJohn Cordy talks about those pod hd packs in his video
I can buy a Kemper Stage / Rack or Toaster for $800-900 on Reverb with relative ease and get most / all of these features, right? Where is the incentive to buy this $700 unit and bolt on $300 of soft-locked upgrades? I love Kemper but I hate cash grabs like this.
We are pathetic if we reward them for this by giving money. Kemper Player is dead to me.
One upgrade per account makes the most sense. H9 and H9 Max kind of deal.
Thats unfortunately not it too. Support says its per device. INSANE
@@SteveSterlacci yeah no thanks. Still rockin the Kemper Stage.
As an earlier adopter of QC & now the NC, I am not thrilled about a world where we have to pay for updates.
That said, I foresee this approach as a stepping stone to something far worse. That is the direction that all software has gone, where you pay a monthly or annual service fee to lease the product. Think Microsoft Office, Adobe, etc… Not looking forward to that!
not a Player owner, own the powerhead, but have considered switching to a Kemper Stage, which at this point as you said, would be a better deal. On the topic of meaningful upgrades/updates, I am blind and use a screen reader, and with very little work Kemper, could make Rig Manager totally accessible to myself and others like me and open themselves up to another market/population. In fact, a friend and I contacted Kemper and gave them some tips on what needs to be done and an estimated timeline of about a day. If things don't go as expected, probably a week at most. What was their response? They aren't interested. Just disappointed to see these decisions from Kemper because their menu driven interface has the most potential for accessibility. On a human level, anyone who is watching this video would be devostated if they can't operate their gear and instruments independently tomorrow because their bodies broke down or if they lose a sense. As far as I am aware, musicians work at Kemper. Again, the lack of desire to do something that would make a difference and these odd upgrade structures is disappointing.
Would love to see you do a review on the Valeton GP200
I've never purchased a Kemper product, and this has solidified that I never will, I would cease buying products from any company that follows suit on this "Upgrade" scheme. If it's in the hardware to do and it, if it's not available on day one, and not available by a free future software upgrade, it kind of shows that the company is a big POS and doing their customers a disservice by not providing the best product they can in the name of profit.
Let’s see what the other brands do. I’d rather charge 100 bucks more for the unit and keep the tier 3 option for 99$ locked to your account and keep customers coming back.
I wish I could by a little lcd screen to tell me which amp I'm running. 😂
I got the device day one, and I also own a Kemper Stage. I was hoping this would become my live rig. No, it did not. I have now got a Neural Nano Cortex and ToneX for comparison. I just want something I can put a drive/fuzz/and wah in front of an call it a day. Hopefully, Neural doesn't charge to add some other reverb and delays in the software, but we shall see. That said, I hope that one of these can make my foot stomping a little easier in the live gigs ahead. The Stage would be my mainstay and this would be my smaller rig.
Another perspective to maybe see it from, is someone who paid full price for a Stage or toaster... If Kemper just handed over the full package for free, most of the stage/toaster owners would feel robbed and pretty hacked off ... this way, the player can be upgraded to "almost" equal, while still being a cheaper option. Some prefer the smaller footprint and don't need the extra foot switches, so they have the option to get everything they need for less.
As for upgrading two with one upgrade, I can't see that happening... otherwise you'd just drop round to a friends house who's paid for the upgrade, hook up and give the friend a donation for turbocharging yours...
And I'm no shill btw, I'm actually pretty pissed that after all the time I've been waiting for the Windows Asio driver, for me, it installs but won't load. Keeps telling me to check that my device is connected to my my computer, where it's been connected and working for over 9 months.... Helix didn't sound as good, but at least when they release stuff it does work! 🤬
Man I'm shocked Kemper are the ones. Would've place money on NDSP or Fender doing this first.
Exactly. And I'm surprised Neural is making it's way up in my list of respectable guitar modeller companies. Despite the poorly calculated money grab that the Nano cortex is of course 😂
@rejuvenator8966 I'm in the camp that likes nano. I've been so critical of qc on the channel. Like VERY. But nano is cool for what it is IMO. As long as they don't over promise and under deliver lol
@@SteveSterlacci Fair enouh! I'm a QC user that has some gripes with the unit and Neural, but yet I still own the thing and gig with it cause it ticks many boxes for me and sounds good
I think form factor is a big sell point as well for the player cause its way smaller than stage even if you oay the dough the realestate is alot less
Thank you kemper "people" to making sure you'll never get money from me 😂😂😂
"getting suckered into it" - You said it right, and you don't look happy about it, for the entire 10:28 minutes.
It's a pity RUclips influencers didn't take 10 seconds of their precious time to read the Kemper website.
"The Kemper Profiler Player now also lives in the Paradigm, the Philosophy of the original Kemper Profilers".
"NOTE: Of course the Level UPGRADES do not replace the traditional free software and feature UPDATES tradition.
The LVL UPGRADES are just an offer to optionally enhance the feature menu towards the bigger units".
Not really sure of the point here. Yes, everyone knows updates and upgrades are separated. Yes we knew paid was on the table. That being said, the baiting into needing both and charging 300 for it is the issue. It's a pity a viewer didn't watch the video before commenting 🤔
@@SteveSterlacci
lol, I watch all your videos, you're great. 👍
I agree, price is too high...but I'm looking forward to see what free updates are coming soon.
@guitartoneSA very much appreciated! I'm hoping they offer a deal on the upgrade. I don't NEED it. But with all the interest, it'd make for good content for sure.
I bought the uprade and i would rather do it this way than have the unit be more expensive up front.
Welcome to Amps-as-a-Service.
I'll wait for black Friday and hope for a discount. I'd pay 150 eur for both but not 300.
I think Neural will start selling extra FX for the nano
How did Kemper see the awful reactions to the Nano Cortex and think to announce this anyway...
I view this in two ways, on one hand I don’t condone this kind of thing but saying it opens precedents when you’ve had this for ages in DAWs is just shortsighted… I still don’t like it. On the other hand I owned ALL of the modelers and Kemper, for me, still has the best sound around, better than HX, better than Neural on some avenues and on par with Fractal. BUT Kemper’s technology is showing its age. Now… I play and practice at home and I play live, I’ve toured Europe with an HX Stomp and the KPP, it’s not even close. What I like is that for what you paid you have a perfectly fine modeler, you don’t need to upgrade. Is it a douchey move? Yes. Would it be pricier if they made it 100% feature stacked from the get go? Also yes. It’s still cheaper than the stage BUT you can get the stage used for the same price of a full featured KPP… The thing I like is that if I go play with my Deathcore band, I only take the KPP. If I go play with my cover band, I add the midi captain and the expression pedal so I like this module model. What I think is wrong is the pricing. At most every upgrade should’ve been 100 bucks. At most!
Expect it to expand. Greed is now the mantra for many businesses in any industry and more so in this time. Once one does it the others will probably soon follow.
Screwing your customers is never a good business model. Very short sighted in my opinion.
For me, who have the Kemper Player, level 2 would make sense. I’ve already had the Kemper stage and I miss the Morph function, but 180 dollars for that? No. Thank you.
We all gonna move to Fractal if the other units ask for money for upgrades..or back to tube amps
Tube amp. forever.
You do have to buy the upgrades per unit.
Damn, I own a power amp kemper and quite happy with it, and always recommended friends to get it because of how the company is owned by people that are not greedy. I was just checking the player for a friend, and saw LEVEL 2 and 3 and honestly checked if it was April fools, this is a really greedy and dumb move on Kemper's behalf, hope no one buys this crap. Better of getting that DNA or Harley Benton.
The Player was supposed to be a pedal platform unit and now they are offering upgrades to make it an all in one unit if you want which is still $600 cheaper than the Stage with all the same features. Kemper has the same hardware as its initial release and has always given free updates. This seems like a non issue to me as a Stage owner who has a Player as a back up.
One of the reasons we adopted modelers and profilers was the expectation of updates during the time life of the product, we should go back to the basics, do we need a thousand sounds? This is the best time to craft your sound with the tools we currently have, let’s not play this game, don’t pay for the upgrades, less GAS more playing,
This is exactly why stuff like Helix has still been selling. People see a 10 year old unit that got a pile of new effects 6 months ago and are reassured the device won't be mothballed.
Not paying for amp models, they use ai to auto model then act like its costs lots of money
Im a Kemper user and I’m so disappointed on charging for the upgrades I don’t think is fair. I’m also a Fractal and Fender pro master user and their upgrades are free I’ll stay with the Kemper stage is easy to carry and there’s no need for paying upgrades I hope it’s stay like that
This kind of practice has been rife in the automotive where cars are delivered with features but they're inactive unless you pay for them. Our a subscription (BMW heated seats !1!!! ). But if the player and upgrades is the same as a used head/rack/stage - and it doesn't profile ?....... Nope. Maybe profiling in Rig Manager will be the next upgrade.
I think it's a bad precedent. I feel like it's then not a far leap to go to a subscription model after that, but they'd have to commit to putting out a set number of upgrades.
None of that is so compelling to me. QC and Kemper for whatever reason just never appealed to me at all. Line 6, Boss, and Headrush are the current units I use and like.
So even after upgrading to Level 3, you still have just a player that can’t profile. You need to then purchase or find quality profiles online and can’t make your own profiles unless you also already own a Toaster or a Stage at which point, who cares about the Player.
I used to own a Kemper for many years and loved it, I'll probably never buy one again, there's better options out there and they haven't kept up with the industry very well.
Absolutely not. Kemper are getting roasted for this. And for good reason.
Also, I don’t think anyone should buy digital gear because of what it COULD be. You have to be 100% content with hour it is at launch because if you buy it hoping it can do something more eventually, you’ll end up like all the disgruntled quad cortex users who bought those early and were expecting timely delivery of editor software and plugin support.
I agree. Support and updates are a plus, not a feature.
I don’t like what Kemper has done as it sets a precedent, but they see it as an upgrade, not an update.
True, but at the same time, until this, the precedent is you buy a unit and there will be upgrades.