It’s an upgrade to basically a full kemper for a fraction of the price. Paywall doesn’t seem like a fair name. They probably wanted to have something for more people. The cheaper version is for people who use it differently and likely with other effects. Which is why I don’t own one. I prefer the stage. Most of us buy profiles. Is that a paywall? It just seems like it’s an upgrade which is something we all deal with on our computers regularly if there’s something we want. It seems reasonable. And at least it’s not subscription based.
@@timmitchell1547except it isn't an update to an full Kemper, it doesn't have the controls, it doesn't have to profiling. You would need to buy a midi controller to get the full usability.
It really seems like a joke to me because to think that the Kemper Player with this upgrade costs the same as an FM 3 which is infinitely more professional and more complete can only be a joke.
I like my Kemper Player and bought it knowing it didn't come with all the FX and features. I don't need any of the upgrades right now so I won't be buying them. I still like my Kemper Player. 🤷🏻♂
dim. handicapping hardware by arbitrarily withholding CPU cycles and selling the "unlock" after the fact is just crazy. selling effect add ons like plug ins is one thing but this is totally different. would you buy a macbook with half the cpu cores locked ? very scummy business model
Right? Same as buying a MacBook for 700 with the promise that it came with future upgrades/unlocks for 300. If accessibility is the goal, make a lower cost product. This is not the way.
Hmm, I’m not an engineer - but I was under the impression that ‘binning’ is exactly that. So many if not the majority of cpus you buy have some cores locked/busted. But I’m ready to be corrected.
@@raj_d2178 me neither but I think the point is nobody wants to pay money for hardware that they have to pay further to unlock or use. IE peloton or bmw heated seats
@@raj_d2178 not the same thing. Processors are binned if they fail to meet the bench mark standard for a specific product sku like an i5 & are downgraded to i3 to reflect that quality difference. Unlocked cpu’s are ones that allow you to boost the clock until failure to squeeze a little more performance out of them and they are generally the ones that perform the best of the designated bin. Ie it’s not arbitrary it’s to deliver a quality experience & fair price
Well summed up, HW. Totally agree. Me, I love the idea of a small unit to use for fly gigs and backup, now with the full feature set of its siblings. Having a choice of how much of a party you want to pay for can't be a bad idea. Now I hope you can make a video on the rig switching time of the Player as I understand it doesn't have Performance mode, which is an absolute necessity in the bigger units to reduce switching time. Kudos to the Kemper team for constant work, service and generosity throughout the years.
Isn't it funny how one of the main arguments for Kemper users for past years has been that you don't have to keep updating your hardware and paying more, like with Fractal etc who comes up with new more powerful hardware every few years or so. Well now you get to pay extra and you don't EVEN GET THE NEW HARDWARE! LOL!
@rejuvenator8966 this is a bit of a silly argument to be honest. Buying new fractal hardware every few costs an absolute fortune. This is a relatively small additional cost to basically do the equivalent of turning an FS3 into an FS9 or AxeFX for a few hundred bucks. You're getting all of the functionality of the flagship Kempers minus profiling for about 60% of the cost on a form factor that is perfect for people who use midi and other pedals or devices. The upgraded player plus external midi controller like an MC6 or Bridge 6 is still much cheaper than a new Stage. What would've been really shit is releasing a Kemper player turbo hardware model to get more functionality like Fractal did. That they're not requiring you to buy new hardware is an advantage. That you think they should just give away their software is ridiculous.
I think people mostly have an issue with paying for software upgrades. It's intangible, whereas a hardware upgrade (like AxeFX 2 -> 3) is easier for people to accept.
I was one of the very first to receive my Kemper toaster when they were released and then very early on the remote as soon as they arrived in the US. I have loved it through the years and ultimately got my whole band converted and we have never been happier. Unfortunately hurricane Helene took all of my gear a few days ago so I have to start over but when I can get the money together it will be a Kemper and remote again😢
The Kemper player is my foot into the Kemper ecosystem at a price that I can afford. My only complaint is that the upgrades cost more individually than if I bought the two at the same time. It's almost as if I'm being penalised for being poor.
I personally wouldn't have been able to get a Kemper otherwise. I simply can't afford to buy new at $1600. I tend to buy used, but don't like to do that when a processing unit is involved because used is more likely to fail in those instances. So in my case, getting my foot in the door at $700 and then upgrading later on when I can afford it is the only way that would work for me. And having something that is very usable in the mean time is amazing! I highly doubt that I am alone in this position. I am extremely exited to get the upgrades as soon as I can part with the $300 in a few weeks!
I don't get it… when I bought the Kemper Player I knew about its features and I knew about the limitations it has compared to the Stage or Head. I was willing to pay the price for what’s in the box and it fits my needs. Otherwise I could have bought one of the bigger units. Now I have the option to expand the functionality of my box. Nobody forces me to go this route and as long as there will be bugfixes for the basic version I’m fine with it. Nevertheless, I also think that the price tag is too high. I'll wait until they adjust the price or I'll continue to use my unit as it.
Oh dear, struggling to justify this one aren't you. It's poor form to sell something at a premium price and then force people to update or your hardware becomes legacy especially in a market where there has been an expectation that the hardware is refreshed.
justifying a $300 hardware limited upgrade, thats honestly scummy and you're nothing but a shill if you are putting this down to "the way the world works" fractal or LINE6 don't seem to have the same attitude.
Personally i think it's awesome. The price of a new Stage in Australia is $2500. The price of a fully upgraded player is $1600. The only thing they should've done is drop the base product by 100 or so and you uograde from there if you want to. Paying for licensed features for software has been a thing forever. Kemper is ultimately a software company and has been from the start.
Actually they can be bought new for $2,300 AUD. Anyway's I think this is still a scummy move by Kemper and Co. I keep on thinking that there must be a way to jailbreak the player and get that extra functionality for free. As you say Kemper is basically a software company.
I bought the player upgrade at the moment it was available. I downsized from stage to the player and now I'm able to use my old presets with 8 effects again. Totally worth it. I think you have to differentiate between updates (like qol or bug fixing) which should always be free and upgrades that bring you new features. This is not a subscription model as these charge you regularly for just using the same stuff. If a feature was promised at release (like plugin compatibility in the qc) the upgrade has to be free ofc.
You made a really interesting point and might have changed my mind about the upgrades. Me personally, I don’t have a need for them. So I’m cool with the fact that they’re optional. I’ve been using the Helix floorboard for years and there are situations where I would really like a smaller footprint. And I’ve always wanted to dip my toe into Kemper.
Love the passion HW. I just bought the upgrades today and it seems to me to be a game changer. I've had all of the Kempers and got the Player for its size. I'm mostly a church player and I use a wheelchair so now it has all of the full fat stuff that I've collected over the years it's perfect for me. I've bought ampex and nano cortex recently and they just dont do it for me. The other point to make - the Kemper Mac editor is brilliant. Nano cortex app doesnt even seem to allow me to drag and drop presets and I dont want to have to mess with an iPad on stage. Great video man - now go lie down in a dark room for a while - seems like your politics and ours in the UK are similarly flawed just now. Stay well and thanks for your work.
@@Βετο yeah, I got rid of my Kemper head a couple years ago when their modelling patent expired. I made the right decision as the competition heated up and got much cheaper.
I was interested in purchasing the Profiler Player, if this update was free I’d have ordered one today. I think a paid update is a crummy move, and I don’t plan to spend any money on Kemper products. Hope it works out for them though.
Sounds anti capitalist to me guys. Engineering had to go in to this even down to how to make the interface work it wasn’t a direct drop in from the stage.
Amplitube 5 Max purchaser, it included everything, all you can eat, oh, now give us another $99 for Amplitube 5 Max V2. I already know how IK handles this.
2/3 the cost HW - and 1/8 the size? What comes out of it is 1/2 of it - the other half is hardware. That's the issue - slow down and read the pulse - you're not making any sense 22 seconds in. This is a channel that in theory supports your brand - the lack of a measured response and the appearance of a coke fused rant is what this looks like. I have a full Kemper and a Quad Cortex - I'm not beign "bias" - the users ranting have the right optics.
I wonder how much better it would have been recieved if they had released it as level 3 first at $1K (basically a kemper stage but half the size and a lower price) and then offerred to sell a reduced functionality version for a lower price.
I think people would whine. Because it’s too good. Too competitive with the stage. So there would have been backlash that it’s too expensive. People really seem to get triggered. At least it’s not a subscription service.
You make valid points, but the biggest issue for me is locking the number of rigs you can save behind level 3. It just feels like buying a car that limits itself to 60mph until you pay to go above that.
I went from the Player to the Stage and now I want to go back to the Player with all the levels. People fail to mention that the Player has Bluetooth and a rig volume knob. Stage doesn’t have these things.
After listening to all the you tube videos on the Kemper upgrade If you only have the player and want to remain small then Do it.Both upgrades If you already have a stage ,toaster,or rack mount but have the player,I say no I bought the player for what it was ,something I can throw and fly or for tight areas I’m keeping it as is Just needed the midis switches to get quicker access to profiles and effects and tuner. Strip version perfect for that . That’s my take
What pisses me off more is the power requirement. Need to spend $300+ on a Cioks + adaptor to power it on my board. Add that to the $700 I paid and we're $150 short of a used Kemper Stage. Much too expensive, not to mention the $300 "upgrade" gimmick.
@@davidramos4317 It does, but who wants to have two plugins on a board if you are using a few pedals with it? If you are using it solo (I couldn't imagine so), it's no issue.
This guy is really funny. He made very good points. I’m actually perfectly fine it’s a paid upgrade. But $300 is a little too much got me. I wish there will be like a Black Friday sale in the future.
I think a lot of people see this the wrong way. Just because something has a certain amount of DSP doesnt mean you have to give functionality to the amount of DSP provided. By that logic there wouldnt be any upgrade options but people who wouldnt need the extra functionality had to pay the 1000€ instead of the 700€ which would be shitty. Instead now people have a choice if they want the functionality and the hardware is just there. The price and upgrades are not calculated by DSP but rather the functionality you can get.
You can’t buy the level 3 “upgrades” without first buying the level 2. Considering the third level is the only ones I’m interested in, that is somewhat frustrating. I think their is multiple reasons everyone is freaking out. One is because they are worried this will be a slippery slope that leads to everyone else following suite. I have worked with software and digital services and it is extremely frustrating that people always want everything for free in the digital world as if there isn’t massive work and development put into something. Another big reason is that this is something unexpected and new for Kemper. Change is rarely easily accepted.
$660 for a Dimehead NAM player that includes everything including a screen AND the ability to capture. Isn't that a (much?) better value / option compared to this??
@@failed_guitarist Nah, it covers all/most of the usual stuff beyond the main focus of all the great amp captures- noise gate, reverb, chorus, flange, delay, EQ, IR loader, MIDI... It's super new so likely more other goodies to be added later and guessing they won't charge hundreds of $$ for them(!)
Honestly… completely agree, my words…! 👍 I have a rack in my deskrack, have a stage for playing live and got the player as a backup in first place. And i think i was one of the first getting the upgrade without asking questions and with no regrets. As said, everyone his opinion that’s completely fine. If someone doesn’t agree and doesn’t like… just go on and buy something else. Instead of making content against kempers upgrade and or why not agree… those better save their time and playing guitar and having fun. Cheers, wish merry Christmas to everyone and a happy new year.
Level IV Upgrade: Profiling; costs $300 Euro, but, you can't buy that separately, to unlock you must buy Level II and Level III, so for $600 Euro more you can have profiling as well. Ummm,yay ... I guess?!?!? Level V Upgrade: a screen, so you can see what you are actually using on the system onstage costs another $300 Euro, but, you must buy Level II, Level III and level IV. So, for $900 Euro more than the base unit @ $1,600 you can have a Kemper Stage?!?!? I wonder how long it will take for someone to Jailbreak the thing and get that extra functionality out of the thing for free.
I am die hard Helix user, but this was a great video! Thank you!! Also, loved the tangent about the USA economic situation. Spot on lol. I'm Canadian, and we are very much facing similar economic issues, and so many people have bizarre concepts and opinions on money...anyways...Cheers!
I couldn't understand the math you made. Really two-thirds of Stage, but without the ability to make profiles, and without the advantages of footswitches and their possibilities it can't be a good deal. It is obvious that the Kemper stage and all its added values are worth much more in account.
It’s been 9 months since they released the Player. If the functionality was always there, why not include it in the original release. It’s not like they developed anything new just for this unit, they already had the software. I get the points you make, it just seems like a money grab. I almost bought the Player when it came out, looked at all the marketing and don’t remember ever seeing anything about a payed upgrade in the future. And the price is just insane. 40% of the original price for an upgrade is nuts. I’d get it if it was $50.
Because the player didn't release with the same software as the other Kempers, it had its own software. The software was only normalised for all Kempers two months ago as a beta.
I get that, but I’ve had the Helix Stomp for a while and I like their update model. From what I understand, you get access to all the same software in each unit and you chose the hardware based on what form factor works best for you: larger or smaller footprint, more foot switches, bigger display, wah pedal, etc. and the updates are the same for every version, you get access to everything.
@@mftorino If Kemper had released a new piece of hardware like Line 6 and Fractal do that was a slightly upgraded version of the previous hardware, what advantage is that to upgrading an existing piece of hardware? Everytime you release a new piece of hardware the previous one tanks in value. And keeping in mind Kemper manufacture in Germany not in China.
The user for the Player is not the same as the user for the Stage or the Toaster. When you buy these bigger hardware units you get more switches, display, etc and you get the capture function (not included in the Player update). This is what you pay for. And the use case is different in each case. So why not give each one access to the full software and all the effects? They don’t because they want you to pay more. The full all in price is like $1k. I guess it’s supposed to compete with the Fractal FM3 mkii. I don’t know if that’s realistic.
Imho, the upgrade isnt the real issue. When it comes down to it, its the pricing that's the issue. Had they released lvl2+3 as just a single £100 upgrade there'd be nothing to talk about. Instead, they would've been praised more for offering a much cheaper full fat effects etc Kemper in a small form factor. The £255 pricing has instead made people look at the competition's offerings. There's still time to turn this into a win by lowering the price. CK needs to read the room.
All this tells me it was either a loss leader or Kemper profit margins are much greater than originally thought because these aren't "upgrades", they're unlocks - the hardware capability was there from the start, as must have been this strategy.
Ripe timing for an HX Stomp MkII with capture, and even the Nano Cortex (capture on the box itself). I think NDSP is going to a bring a version 2.0 firmware update that gives nice added value: a compressor, more reverbs, more delays, AND able to use the Capture In / Out as an FX Loop!, and all for free. I am all in on the Nano Cortex, and out on the Kemper Player, and that was Before the Paid Upgrade, yikes...
Oh yeah for me it is quite simple. This is a well thought of commercial plan. So if you do not like it. Do not buy it. I think the player is amazing for you basic sounds and I use it alk the time. Still best quality around for my purposes. You can sell it and go for the stage. Other option do not buy the upgrades. It will go down in price. They just want to earn extra bucks. You have the choice
I use the basic version and I'm not going to pay half the price of camper player for an upgrade!! In the future, if they change the price, maybe I will buy it, and if not, I will sell it and buy a used Kemper Stage!
I honestly don't get that upset about just business trying new things. It's their company , you don't like it , don't buy it. What I do think is a bit weird is just like you said: "They did their best to minify the kemper for the cheapest price"... Well, now we now that didn't do that right? Because if it was for the cheapest price and the entry capabilities, it should have been a less capable DSP, and be 400-500$. Kemper nano? And if they wanted to release the kemper player afterwards with all the capabilities , then release it for 1000$. My 2 cents.
If they were open about it at the start it maybe different. To do this 9 months after release, in a market where updates have been free is pretty poor.
This is cool. I’m just glad they didn’t start a subscription service that your unit won’t turn on if you don’t pay the piper monthly. This video would’ve been better if The Sooze what jamming behind your rant 😂😂
I bet that most of the people complaining about this aren’t kemper player user. As a kemper player user the first thing that came to my mind was “it’s not cheap, but it’s the price of a strymon pedal and it worth more than that.
People outraged by this are clueless. Kemper actually did the more ethical approach here. Anyone who doesn’t see that is probably entitled or doesn’t get how the tech works or how business works in general.
This video really set me on the back foot. I’ve got and use your helix patches. Bought the everything bundle. But to hear someone in a position such as yours call the working musicians of this world entitled for expecting to not be price locked out of their hardware is so disappointing. I’m not a Kemper guy, not because I don’t think they sound good. I’ve I just found I don’t have what it takes to make them sound good. But if there was ever a thing that would sour me on a company, this is it. We are already being held to so many ridiculous subscription models that have replaced the concept of ownership, that if we allow them to begin introducing those facets to our Guitar hardware, I feel like we’ve just entered into a true dystopia. Obviously that’s a little hyperbole, but I think my point carries. There are probably people out there that would have purchased the unit for 300 more dollars if it did all of those things. But I can say certainly that had I purchased my helix and found out that to get true top-of-the-line helix features I had to pay 300 more dollars after I’ve already purchased it, I’d be looking to return it. As for the content on this channel, this video really bummed me out. It is so concerned with getting out in the front of the argument of being considered a shill, without acknowledging that despite not being paid by Kemper, by virtue of the fact that you profit off the existence of Kemper and it is therefore in your best interest that Kemper do well that this still feel like shilling.
For myself using various products to achieve my music goals includes using analog physical gear along with incorporating certain types of technologies to enhance my experience. Great thing that comes to mind would be using the quad cortex, long before I had that unit I owned a few plugins that I would use when I would record into my DAW. Now all of a sudden my quad cortex has some plug-in compatibility... But there seems to be a pretty big distinction between, core unit functionality, and additional presets amplifiers or secondary peripherals, like unit fx, noise gates, looper pedal and the trails function (you call it spill over) I've never used a Kemper product, this kind of marketing ensures that I never will.
a) they didn't build a unit as cheap as they could - it has more processing power than needed for the lv1 functions so your paying for hardware you can't use b) if you don't want/need any of the additional amps/fx or even preset slots but only the upDATE (because that is what it is) to the main functional software you still have to pay for everything - I wouldn't have a problem with paid tiers for the extra fx models (or fx packs) c) the initial product and software have been release just a year ago with maybe telling people that they are intending to charge for upgrades but A) not clearly enough for people really to realize (kind of a "in the smallprint" move) and B) not that it would be the price of nearly a complete Tonex pedal (NOT talking about the mini Tonex but the real one) d) if you can make it 4 pre and 4 post effects with the same hardware but you release it with 2and2 that is either very lazy (or bad) programming or the pure definition of crippleware and a 100% money grab move to charge for that 4and4 afterwards (hell, the lazy programming bit happens all the time in grafic cards but nobody would ever come up with PAID updates for that) e) your interpretation of what they wrote in the advert (of it showing that they will not charge for future updates and that the unit will get the same updates as the bigger units) is exactly that - an interpretation and to be frank it's wishful thinking
Before I bought a player and the $300 upgrade I would buy another stage. Don’t know the hate on the stage size. I got dedicated buttons for everything I need. Performances, banks, pedal on and off tuner. What I would like is a midi controller in the format of a Marshall head or similar for live knob turning.
People these days want everything for free... I think getting an almost full-fledged Kemper for 2/3 of the price is incredible value... It's optional people! You don't HAVE to upgrade if you're happy with the base-unit. If not, you can upgrade it to an almost full Kemper , at a lower price-point... This is good business.
I own the kemper toaster. I dont disagree with them charging for these updates. Honestly it protects the original buyers that paid the big price tags to have these features. I wouldnt be happy if the player owners got the same things i have for less than half the price most of us paid originally to have a kemper. Player came out to be smaller and stripped down for people not a fan of tweaking like on the larger units. If the player fits your needs than thats great. If the upgrades fit your needs and wants than go and buy it. No one is pulling an apple and sabotaging units to force an upgrade. They are merely giving you an option to have more if you eant more. Im sure some people are happy with the player as is and wont upgrade and still be happy. People bitch and complain when they "have" to spend money, thats their problem to have if they choose to feel that way. If they dont like it they should have bought a stage or toaster.
@@OneFingerSnap I hear what you are saying, but really its related to the software. Though the Kemper Player has the memory and dsp power to run the full Kemper software, it doesn't have all the routing and switching that the full Kemper has. Do the hardware differences (can't make profiles) justify the lower price or are the software differences also part of that lower price for the Player. Dunno.
@@BlackPatti They're Not taking anything away from what they sold. Hey, who wants to spend more money? I get it. But they do have to make money. The Player is not for me. I have a rack, remote with two expression pedals and two switches attached. So how do they get more money from me? It's a business, They have employees, real estate. If they sell a product and it reaches market saturation, and they never make another product, they are out of business.
honest that's exactly what i was thinking, selling your soul for whatever kemper is paying (which won't be ground breaking he has 40k subs) is just scumbag behaviour, there is zero justification for this 300 dollar upgrade they've just limited you so you pay more.
While I find it a little sad that I have to pay the upgrade for each device and not per user account, I get where they are coming from. I was able to talk to Christoph Kemper at Guitar Summit this weekend, where he said they talked about the options but consider it as a hardware upgrade.
Did they add a gain sensitivity like they do for a clean sensitivity? My Mr. Britt higher gain profiles sort of suck. Like anything over for bars is pretty much useless live, for me anyways. They sound real digital. I thought if I could turn the gain sensitivity down a little bit it would help. BTW I'm going to buy the tone junkies Tweed deluxe. The video of that profile just sounds absolutely dope. My favorite Mr Brit is the Dumble. Absolutely amazing. But then I run a couple drives in front of it.
I think the problem with this was the way they did it. You know, if it was launched it with two or three options from the beginning, and the buyer could choose any one I think it would be fine, but, they launched a simpler option by taking things they already have, and only a few monts later they say, oh, you know, I can give you some of the stuff I said I coudn't give if you only pay me a little more. I think this is the problem.
as a company they have the right to do what they want. Customers have the right to dislike it and voice their opinion against it or if they like it to but it. My opinion is that with the options available now, if they wanted to offer a unit with fewer capabilities and then upgrade to paid normal capabilities, the price doesn't make sense. The full capability player maybe should have been at the $700-800 range and the unit without those functions perhaps at $500. To get a fully capable Player for $1200 when there is the Nano cortex and Tonex at much less is not gonna be a good business strategy and makes many of their customers feel a little ripped off and willing to sell their units. Especially now that the Kemper is not as relevant as it used to be and their technology seems old in comparison.
Yes, it's not much to buy the full unlock upgrade for 300 €, I agree with you! You only get one or two good pedals for that. But if you follow the practices of the competition, Kemper is breaking new ground, which is met with incomprehension by a large part of the community. Customer loyalty through continuous new software updates has always been a reason to buy the Kemper. Product maintenance should not be subject to a paywall. I am reminded here of the Eventide H9 , now H90 ! At the end of the day, it's about customer loyalty to a product, which in my opinion is best achieved through customer-friendly product maintenance that is not hidden behind a paywall. Another reason for the rumbling in the community is the fact that the player would have been able to cover the bandwidth that can now be purchased via the upgrades right from the start. This leaves many with a bitter aftertaste, which is linked to the question: “Would I have bought the player for €1000?” - Food for thoughts! So, in the end, it's a personal decision whether it's worth the money. I hope for Kemper that this business model does not have a negative effect on the good reputation that the company has earned. Just my 2 cents!
Man I haven’t been involved in the guitar message board community for years…. But your Crystal Lettuce deep cut, the “shilling” commentary…. The blues lawyer attacks… man, you killed it. Right on the nose.
Was on their site to purchase and all the “add to cart” items are grayed out. Updated my rig manager and profile player to latest os as well. It is a great deal. Most of my good pedals cost 300 each. Kristoff was upfront and we knew it was coming. Best deal around. Don’t like it don’t buy it. Have you every played any high end video games that have all the extra packages. Same deal.
HW I think the thing that annoys a lot of people is it looks like they released a partially finished/ nerfed product and then finished it and decided to upcharge to get the finished unit breaking from previous established practices by the company. It does feel a lot like DLC . I think there is also some sticker shock here
To play a Neural plugin on a QC you need to pay $100 for one amp plugin...that's DLC. Ten years ago Line 6 were charging $50 for a few new amp.models...also DLC. Almost every guitarists I know, which is hundreds and hundreds because I'm in the business, wastes/loses thousands of dollars every few years on gear they sell, trade, swap, don't use...but they cry about paying $150 for an upgrade to a piece of gear they absolutely love and use daily to earn money. One gig and the $150 is paid.
@@guitartoneSAthe neural plugins aren’t a 1:1 though. Neural aren’t charging you for the ABILITY to use the plugin. The plugins are primarily for studio use so if you’ve already bought them for that then you’ve got them. If not then you’ve got plenty of models/captures to choose from. Charging for an update though…just feels weird man. I get what you’re saying though.
Hey, in the radiology equipment industry, companies often sell CT scanners with the hardware to do 128-channel scans but only include software for 16-channel scans. They do this so you can pay less now and upgrade later. It's the same for other radiology equipment. It doesn't make sense for Kemper to make different hardware for each level of equipment. You just pay for the software features you want, and the hardware should be able to handle software updates. We knew these updates would cost money, but I hoped they'd be cheaper. But who am I to judge the prices others set? I can only hope for a promotion.
I think had the unit launched with three levels from the get go, no one would be concerned or upset… week, maybe less people would be upset because someone is always upset.
StompXL user here. No skin in the Neural/Kemper game. The thought that an upgraded software subscription was needed to "unlock" hardware that I'd already purchased would get me fuming. I just really hope this model (pun intended) doesn't catch on. If it does, this bass player is going back to a trusty SansAmp.
Agree 1000000000000%..spot on !! They are still selling the the bigger Kemper units (profiler, powered, stage...)..owning a powerhead, I would be pissed if the player could do all of the prem features for $700. Upgrades cost money, period.
"How dare you make money." I looked at the Player. But I still think I want a head and floor switching. Can't see myself bending over to adjust settings on the Stage.
Since you are buying the hardware, the product IS yours. This is NOT an Update IS an " Upgrade" ( when they really unlock the full capability of the unit). This means that whenever the builder wants , the brand can offer a new upgrade or expansion and the costumer has always to pay for features that are locked in the hardware. In my opinion that's a bad movement, because anyone Who has not any Kemper product yet gonna think twice .
Also, why do people get so bent out of shape when guys like you plug your products?? This channel is your brand! They don't get bent out of shape when Gibson TV put out a video of the latest new guitar! Can't wait for the new IR's ;)
Totally ok with paying good money for good profiles. Totally NOT ok with a on purpose crippled devices that gets "upgraded" for money to do what it probably could have done from the beginning. Yes, it is still cheaper than the Stage with the upgrades - but it has less IO, much less switches and can NOT profile. Sorry, I will not support this kind of business model. Oh, and I think you are quite disrespectful with the critics. Does not suite you, really like your other videos.
As someone who had used your profiles on tour, and I say this with all due respect: this take is completely tone deaf. Would you like it if your brand new BMW which came installed from the factory with heated seats requires a subscription? Because that's a real thing BMW has done and it's no different than this: arbitrarily removing functionality for profit. It didn't cost any more in manufacturing, but you'll charge the consumer a fee simply for the privilege of the manufacturing flipping a switch. It's no different when Apple removes functionality when you get a genuine part replacement from someone other than their repair service. I've been out of the gear talk discussion for a long time, but I'm a firm believer in right-to-repair and eliminating greedy corporate practices such as this. The Kemper platform is 12+ years old, and while we have had some software improvements, they're limiting the capability of the entire platform to a decade old chip in their "top of the line product" when competition in the space is closer than ever. I understand not wanting to undercut the stage, but a fully functional Player at $700 would've been a much better competitor to the ToneX or Quad Cortex. I'm not mad at a $1000 Kemper Player, I'm disappointed that they've been selling the same thing in a slightly smaller, slightly less featured boxes instead of innovating. They did the same thing with initially preventing the Stage from profiling, and they did it again with the Player. I would guess the chip in the Player is more powerful than the full Toaster. Yes, gear talk discussions get really stupidly tribal at times, but maybe don't use your platform to call your customers "losers."
Obviously Kempers algorithm is superior to the competition...keeping in mind the sound comes from the algorithm not the chip. Innovate? Liquid Profiling algorithm. Go watch Leo Gibsons latest video comparing the Player to the Nano Cortex. Watch from 22:00 minutes. Comparing a Liquid Profile and Cortex Capture of his Marshall. When using the Gain & EQ controls on both units the Player is 18% more accurate (sound and authenticity wise) to the actual Marshall than the QC. So do we want Christophe Kemper to use a more powerful chip then spend ages programming a new algorithm, which will in one way or another change our favourite Kemper tones just for the sake of us psychologically knowing we have a new chip in our units? Whatever chip he's using the algorithm is pure genius considering what all is on the full package of FX, Cabinets, IRs, etc that can now be stored on the Player. Even though I have no intention to upgrade my Player I'll just continue enjoying the free updates.
Kemper has made a rod for it's own back imo by creating a product as future-proof as the BIG Kempers. If they release 'Big Kemper II', for thousands, who's gonna buy it? Big Kemper I is still great. So how does Kemper keep the business growing? Establish software linked to accounts, not hardware is my guess. Yeah, you can have all the new software on the ebay Profiler you just bought, but you're going to have to register and pay X for the updates. IK already does this with hardware, where you have to pay to transfer hardware licences/ownership. I don't like it, but how many new Big Kempers are being sold these days vs used ones?
Why people are upset? Because of the larger can't stand it anymore phenomenon of SUBSCRIPTIONS and SAAS for products that never needed them in the past.
Thank you so very much for speaking your mind bro, I've been a TJ fan for like 8 years lol I love kemper and so hate that I don't have one right now. I just started playing in church again but lost my job and have a wife and child, so I'm saving every dollar I have until I can get another one. 'Ps the I think the player with the upgrade is worth every penny haha ❤
This would be a great time for Line 6 to drop the next big FREE update. Would look good on them.
Hopefully it is ability to load captures
@@otfan522botjournalismisdea2 I personally believe HX family cpu can load captures. I think LIne6 can make it, finger crossed!
Just thinking exactly that.
The Line6 bashing in this channel never ends… and still don’t know why exactly
@@martiboucat I know. It's almost a fear thing.
We shouldn't be supporting this type of paywall for modelers/profilers or others will follow and then this will be the norm!
Thank you
It’s an upgrade to basically a full kemper for a fraction of the price. Paywall doesn’t seem like a fair name. They probably wanted to have something for more people. The cheaper version is for people who use it differently and likely with other effects. Which is why I don’t own one. I prefer the stage. Most of us buy profiles. Is that a paywall? It just seems like it’s an upgrade which is something we all deal with on our computers regularly if there’s something we want. It seems reasonable. And at least it’s not subscription based.
@@timmitchell1547except it isn't an update to an full Kemper, it doesn't have the controls, it doesn't have to profiling. You would need to buy a midi controller to get the full usability.
@@adamwilcox6405 Unlockd kemper player + midi controller is still cheaper than a stage, and if you don't need profiling this is the superior option
@adamwilcox6405 that's why the upgrade is cheaper than the difference in cost between the player and the toaster.
It really seems like a joke to me because to think that the Kemper Player with this upgrade costs the same as an FM 3 which is infinitely more professional and more complete can only be a joke.
The FM3 is like 500€ more expensive compared to the fully upgraded Kemper Player though.
I like my Kemper Player and bought it knowing it didn't come with all the FX and features.
I don't need any of the upgrades right now so I won't be buying them.
I still like my Kemper Player.
🤷🏻♂
dim. handicapping hardware by arbitrarily withholding CPU cycles and selling the "unlock" after the fact is just crazy. selling effect add ons like plug ins is one thing but this is totally different. would you buy a macbook with half the cpu cores locked ? very scummy business model
I agree
Right? Same as buying a MacBook for 700 with the promise that it came with future upgrades/unlocks for 300. If accessibility is the goal, make a lower cost product. This is not the way.
Hmm, I’m not an engineer - but I was under the impression that ‘binning’ is exactly that. So many if not the majority of cpus you buy have some cores locked/busted. But I’m ready to be corrected.
@@raj_d2178 me neither but I think the point is nobody wants to pay money for hardware that they have to pay further to unlock or use. IE peloton or bmw heated seats
@@raj_d2178 not the same thing. Processors are binned if they fail to meet the bench mark standard for a specific product sku like an i5 & are downgraded to i3 to reflect that quality difference. Unlocked cpu’s are ones that allow you to boost the clock until failure to squeeze a little more performance out of them and they are generally the ones that perform the best of the designated bin. Ie it’s not arbitrary it’s to deliver a quality experience & fair price
Well summed up, HW. Totally agree. Me, I love the idea of a small unit to use for fly gigs and backup, now with the full feature set of its siblings. Having a choice of how much of a party you want to pay for can't be a bad idea.
Now I hope you can make a video on the rig switching time of the Player as I understand it doesn't have Performance mode, which is an absolute necessity in the bigger units to reduce switching time.
Kudos to the Kemper team for constant work, service and generosity throughout the years.
Isn't it funny how one of the main arguments for Kemper users for past years has been that you don't have to keep updating your hardware and paying more, like with Fractal etc who comes up with new more powerful hardware every few years or so. Well now you get to pay extra and you don't EVEN GET THE NEW HARDWARE! LOL!
@rejuvenator8966 this is a bit of a silly argument to be honest. Buying new fractal hardware every few costs an absolute fortune. This is a relatively small additional cost to basically do the equivalent of turning an FS3 into an FS9 or AxeFX for a few hundred bucks. You're getting all of the functionality of the flagship Kempers minus profiling for about 60% of the cost on a form factor that is perfect for people who use midi and other pedals or devices. The upgraded player plus external midi controller like an MC6 or Bridge 6 is still much cheaper than a new Stage.
What would've been really shit is releasing a Kemper player turbo hardware model to get more functionality like Fractal did. That they're not requiring you to buy new hardware is an advantage. That you think they should just give away their software is ridiculous.
I think people mostly have an issue with paying for software upgrades. It's intangible, whereas a hardware upgrade (like AxeFX 2 -> 3) is easier for people to accept.
I was one of the very first to receive my Kemper toaster when they were released and then very early on the remote as soon as they arrived in the US. I have loved it through the years and ultimately got my whole band converted and we have never been happier. Unfortunately hurricane Helene took all of my gear a few days ago so I have to start over but when I can get the money together it will be a Kemper and remote again😢
The Kemper player is my foot into the Kemper ecosystem at a price that I can afford. My only complaint is that the upgrades cost more individually than if I bought the two at the same time. It's almost as if I'm being penalised for being poor.
I personally wouldn't have been able to get a Kemper otherwise. I simply can't afford to buy new at $1600. I tend to buy used, but don't like to do that when a processing unit is involved because used is more likely to fail in those instances. So in my case, getting my foot in the door at $700 and then upgrading later on when I can afford it is the only way that would work for me. And having something that is very usable in the mean time is amazing! I highly doubt that I am alone in this position. I am extremely exited to get the upgrades as soon as I can part with the $300 in a few weeks!
I don't get it… when I bought the Kemper Player I knew about its features and I knew about the limitations it has compared to the Stage or Head. I was willing to pay the price for what’s in the box and it fits my needs. Otherwise I could have bought one of the bigger units. Now I have the option to expand the functionality of my box. Nobody forces me to go this route and as long as there will be bugfixes for the basic version I’m fine with it. Nevertheless, I also think that the price tag is too high. I'll wait until they adjust the price or I'll continue to use my unit as it.
Exactly!
Totally good take 👍
This makes WAY too much sense…please stop with your logic.
Oh dear, struggling to justify this one aren't you.
It's poor form to sell something at a premium price and then force people to update or your hardware becomes legacy especially in a market where there has been an expectation that the hardware is refreshed.
justifying a $300 hardware limited upgrade, thats honestly scummy and you're nothing but a shill if you are putting this down to "the way the world works" fractal or LINE6 don't seem to have the same attitude.
Personally i think it's awesome. The price of a new Stage in Australia is $2500. The price of a fully upgraded player is $1600. The only thing they should've done is drop the base product by 100 or so and you uograde from there if you want to. Paying for licensed features for software has been a thing forever. Kemper is ultimately a software company and has been from the start.
Actually they can be bought new for $2,300 AUD. Anyway's I think this is still a scummy move by Kemper and Co. I keep on thinking that there must be a way to jailbreak the player and get that extra functionality for free. As you say Kemper is basically a software company.
I bought the player upgrade at the moment it was available. I downsized from stage to the player and now I'm able to use my old presets with 8 effects again. Totally worth it. I think you have to differentiate between updates (like qol or bug fixing) which should always be free and upgrades that bring you new features. This is not a subscription model as these charge you regularly for just using the same stuff.
If a feature was promised at release (like plugin compatibility in the qc) the upgrade has to be free ofc.
You made a really interesting point and might have changed my mind about the upgrades. Me personally, I don’t have a need for them. So I’m cool with the fact that they’re optional. I’ve been using the Helix floorboard for years and there are situations where I would really like a smaller footprint. And I’ve always wanted to dip my toe into Kemper.
Love the passion HW. I just bought the upgrades today and it seems to me to be a game changer. I've had all of the Kempers and got the Player for its size. I'm mostly a church player and I use a wheelchair so now it has all of the full fat stuff that I've collected over the years it's perfect for me. I've bought ampex and nano cortex recently and they just dont do it for me. The other point to make - the Kemper Mac editor is brilliant. Nano cortex app doesnt even seem to allow me to drag and drop presets and I dont want to have to mess with an iPad on stage. Great video man - now go lie down in a dark room for a while - seems like your politics and ours in the UK are similarly flawed just now. Stay well and thanks for your work.
your tongue is so far up kemper's behind it's hard to tell where you end and he beings...it's not worth it pal
yeah im tired of people like this
But.... You can buy a Kemper Stage used for the same price as the player with the upgrade...
I'm selling mine tomorrow
@@ΒετοYour Kemper stage or player?
@@MaximusWhyman stage just in case Kemper does the same and that old thing devalues
@@Βετο yeah, I got rid of my Kemper head a couple years ago when their modelling patent expired. I made the right decision as the competition heated up and got much cheaper.
But not the same size.
I was interested in purchasing the Profiler Player, if this update was free I’d have ordered one today. I think a paid update is a crummy move, and I don’t plan to spend any money on Kemper products. Hope it works out for them though.
I actually hope this becomes a cautionary tale for other companies
Updates are free, these are once off paid upgrades.
Sounds anti capitalist to me guys. Engineering had to go in to this even down to how to make the interface work it wasn’t a direct drop in from the stage.
@@guitartoneSA who said they were one offs ? if they see it works, then why not try more upgrades for more money ?
ToneX is releasing a major FX Upgrade for Free!!!! 🙂
@@guitartoneSA and is still considerably cheaper and also comes with the plugin.
Amplitube 5 Max purchaser, it included everything, all you can eat, oh, now give us another $99 for Amplitube 5 Max V2. I already know how IK handles this.
@@guitartoneSA ....and is half the price, a third of the price if you factor in the cost of the upgrade.
@@guitartoneSA oh, and it comes with the Tonex Max plugin.
@guitartoneSA wtf are you talking about? That's utter garbage.
2/3 the cost HW - and 1/8 the size? What comes out of it is 1/2 of it - the other half is hardware. That's the issue - slow down and read the pulse - you're not making any sense 22 seconds in. This is a channel that in theory supports your brand - the lack of a measured response and the appearance of a coke fused rant is what this looks like. I have a full Kemper and a Quad Cortex - I'm not beign "bias" - the users ranting have the right optics.
I wonder how much better it would have been recieved if they had released it as level 3 first at $1K (basically a kemper stage but half the size and a lower price) and then offerred to sell a reduced functionality version for a lower price.
I think people would whine. Because it’s too good. Too competitive with the stage. So there would have been backlash that it’s too expensive. People really seem to get triggered. At least it’s not a subscription service.
It's not even a stage if you do upgrade because of the limited form factor.
This is a bad move.
Already upgraded to LVL II & III… and in a second i was playing all my rigs from my toaster performances backup.
You make valid points, but the biggest issue for me is locking the number of rigs you can save behind level 3. It just feels like buying a car that limits itself to 60mph until you pay to go above that.
I went from the Player to the Stage and now I want to go back to the Player with all the levels. People fail to mention that the Player has Bluetooth and a rig volume knob. Stage doesn’t have these things.
After listening to all the you tube videos on the Kemper upgrade
If you only have the player and want to remain small then
Do it.Both upgrades
If you already have a stage ,toaster,or rack mount but have the player,I say no
I bought the player for what it was ,something I can throw and fly or for tight areas
I’m keeping it as is
Just needed the midis switches to get quicker access to profiles and effects and tuner.
Strip version perfect for that .
That’s my take
Same approach. I am going to buy the player and keep it like that for the same reasons
Interesting to see the mental gymnastics trying to justify this.
Who are you trying to convince exactly? Sounds like it's yourself.
Loool
I bought both upgrades this morning and I have no absolutely no buyers remorse.
Well that is what it is about. You are happy. If you are not happy with the price and what you get for it. Do not buy
What pisses me off more is the power requirement. Need to spend $300+ on a Cioks + adaptor to power it on my board. Add that to the $700 I paid and we're $150 short of a used Kemper Stage. Much too expensive, not to mention the $300 "upgrade" gimmick.
@@davidramos4317 It does, but who wants to have two plugins on a board if you are using a few pedals with it? If you are using it solo (I couldn't imagine so), it's no issue.
I want them to take the big kempers to the next level now. Perfectly willing to pay for more efx slots.
This guy is really funny. He made very good points. I’m actually perfectly fine it’s a paid upgrade. But $300 is a little too much got me. I wish there will be like a Black Friday sale in the future.
It still doesn’t do stereo amps? Lol I’m sticking to acs1
I think a lot of people see this the wrong way. Just because something has a certain amount of DSP doesnt mean you have to give functionality to the amount of DSP provided. By that logic there wouldnt be any upgrade options but people who wouldnt need the extra functionality had to pay the 1000€ instead of the 700€ which would be shitty. Instead now people have a choice if they want the functionality and the hardware is just there. The price and upgrades are not calculated by DSP but rather the functionality you can get.
You can’t buy the level 3 “upgrades” without first buying the level 2. Considering the third level is the only ones I’m interested in, that is somewhat frustrating.
I think their is multiple reasons everyone is freaking out. One is because they are worried this will be a slippery slope that leads to everyone else following suite. I have worked with software and digital services and it is extremely frustrating that people always want everything for free in the digital world as if there isn’t massive work and development put into something.
Another big reason is that this is something unexpected and new for Kemper. Change is rarely easily accepted.
$660 for a Dimehead NAM player that includes everything including a screen AND the ability to capture. Isn't that a (much?) better value / option compared to this??
Totally
Kemper player provides 4 effects blocks. I think the nam player only has a basic room reverb?
@@failed_guitarist Nah, it covers all/most of the usual stuff beyond the main focus of all the great amp captures- noise gate, reverb, chorus, flange, delay, EQ, IR loader, MIDI... It's super new so likely more other goodies to be added later and guessing they won't charge hundreds of $$ for them(!)
Honestly… completely agree, my words…! 👍
I have a rack in my deskrack, have a stage for playing live and got the player as a backup in first place. And i think i was one of the first getting the upgrade without asking questions and with no regrets.
As said, everyone his opinion that’s completely fine. If someone doesn’t agree and doesn’t like… just go on and buy something else. Instead of making content against kempers upgrade and or why not agree… those better save their time and playing guitar and having fun.
Cheers, wish merry Christmas to everyone and a happy new year.
Level IV Upgrade: Profiling; costs $300 Euro, but, you can't buy that separately, to unlock you must buy Level II and Level III, so for $600 Euro more you can have profiling as well. Ummm,yay ... I guess?!?!? Level V Upgrade: a screen, so you can see what you are actually using on the system onstage costs another $300 Euro, but, you must buy Level II, Level III and level IV. So, for $900 Euro more than the base unit @ $1,600 you can have a Kemper Stage?!?!?
I wonder how long it will take for someone to Jailbreak the thing and get that extra functionality out of the thing for free.
I am die hard Helix user, but this was a great video! Thank you!! Also, loved the tangent about the USA economic situation. Spot on lol. I'm Canadian, and we are very much facing similar economic issues, and so many people have bizarre concepts and opinions on money...anyways...Cheers!
I couldn't understand the math you made.
Really two-thirds of Stage, but without the ability to make profiles, and without the advantages of footswitches and their possibilities it can't be a good deal. It is obvious that the Kemper stage and all its added values are worth much more in account.
It’s been 9 months since they released the Player. If the functionality was always there, why not include it in the original release. It’s not like they developed anything new just for this unit, they already had the software. I get the points you make, it just seems like a money grab. I almost bought the Player when it came out, looked at all the marketing and don’t remember ever seeing anything about a payed upgrade in the future. And the price is just insane. 40% of the original price for an upgrade is nuts. I’d get it if it was $50.
Because the player didn't release with the same software as the other Kempers, it had its own software.
The software was only normalised for all Kempers two months ago as a beta.
I get that, but I’ve had the Helix Stomp for a while and I like their update model. From what I understand, you get access to all the same software in each unit and you chose the hardware based on what form factor works best for you: larger or smaller footprint, more foot switches, bigger display, wah pedal, etc. and the updates are the same for every version, you get access to everything.
@@mftorino
If Kemper had released a new piece of hardware like Line 6 and Fractal do that was a slightly upgraded version of the previous hardware, what advantage is that to upgrading an existing piece of hardware?
Everytime you release a new piece of hardware the previous one tanks in value.
And keeping in mind Kemper manufacture in Germany not in China.
The user for the Player is not the same as the user for the Stage or the Toaster. When you buy these bigger hardware units you get more switches, display, etc and you get the capture function (not included in the Player update). This is what you pay for. And the use case is different in each case. So why not give each one access to the full software and all the effects? They don’t because they want you to pay more. The full all in price is like $1k. I guess it’s supposed to compete with the Fractal FM3 mkii. I don’t know if that’s realistic.
Imho, the upgrade isnt the real issue. When it comes down to it, its the pricing that's the issue. Had they released lvl2+3 as just a single £100 upgrade there'd be nothing to talk about. Instead, they would've been praised more for offering a much cheaper full fat effects etc Kemper in a small form factor. The £255 pricing has instead made people look at the competition's offerings. There's still time to turn this into a win by lowering the price. CK needs to read the room.
All this tells me it was either a loss leader or Kemper profit margins are much greater than originally thought because these aren't "upgrades", they're unlocks - the hardware capability was there from the start, as must have been this strategy.
Ripe timing for an HX Stomp MkII with capture, and even the Nano Cortex (capture on the box itself). I think NDSP is going to a bring a version 2.0 firmware update that gives nice added value: a compressor, more reverbs, more delays, AND able to use the Capture In / Out as an FX Loop!, and all for free. I am all in on the Nano Cortex, and out on the Kemper Player, and that was Before the Paid Upgrade, yikes...
Oh yeah for me it is quite simple. This is a well thought of commercial plan. So if you do not like it. Do not buy it. I think the player is amazing for you basic sounds and I use it alk the time. Still best quality around for my purposes. You can sell it and go for the stage. Other option do not buy the upgrades. It will go down in price. They just want to earn extra bucks. You have the choice
I use the basic version and I'm not going to pay half the price of camper player for an upgrade!! In the future, if they change the price, maybe I will buy it, and if not, I will sell it and buy a used Kemper Stage!
I honestly don't get that upset about just business trying new things. It's their company , you don't like it , don't buy it.
What I do think is a bit weird is just like you said: "They did their best to minify the kemper for the cheapest price"...
Well, now we now that didn't do that right? Because if it was for the cheapest price and the entry capabilities, it should have been a less capable DSP, and be 400-500$. Kemper nano?
And if they wanted to release the kemper player afterwards with all the capabilities , then release it for 1000$.
My 2 cents.
If they were open about it at the start it maybe different. To do this 9 months after release, in a market where updates have been free is pretty poor.
Dual 1/2 3/4 footswitching was updated for free.
I’m so glad I bought the Stage when it came out.
hey HW, is that a rack in your pants or are you just happy to see the new player upgrades? :-) ..... you are right, I think this is amazing to have!
Both!
This is cool. I’m just glad they didn’t start a subscription service that your unit won’t turn on if you don’t pay the piper monthly.
This video would’ve been better if The Sooze what jamming behind your rant 😂😂
I bet that most of the people complaining about this aren’t kemper player user.
As a kemper player user the first thing that came to my mind was “it’s not cheap, but it’s the price of a strymon pedal and it worth more than that.
And I’ll say more. In one year the will realize level 4 and 5. That will be kemper controller link and profiling capabilities.
@@thiagoalexandrino So they can just keep on adding? Man, sounds neat.
People outraged by this are clueless. Kemper actually did the more ethical approach here. Anyone who doesn’t see that is probably entitled or doesn’t get how the tech works or how business works in general.
This video really set me on the back foot. I’ve got and use your helix patches. Bought the everything bundle. But to hear someone in a position such as yours call the working musicians of this world entitled for expecting to not be price locked out of their hardware is so disappointing. I’m not a Kemper guy, not because I don’t think they sound good. I’ve I just found I don’t have what it takes to make them sound good. But if there was ever a thing that would sour me on a company, this is it. We are already being held to so many ridiculous subscription models that have replaced the concept of ownership, that if we allow them to begin introducing those facets to our Guitar hardware, I feel like we’ve just entered into a true dystopia. Obviously that’s a little hyperbole, but I think my point carries. There are probably people out there that would have purchased the unit for 300 more dollars if it did all of those things. But I can say certainly that had I purchased my helix and found out that to get true top-of-the-line helix features I had to pay 300 more dollars after I’ve already purchased it, I’d be looking to return it.
As for the content on this channel, this video really bummed me out. It is so concerned with getting out in the front of the argument of being considered a shill, without acknowledging that despite not being paid by Kemper, by virtue of the fact that you profit off the existence of Kemper and it is therefore in your best interest that Kemper do well that this still feel like shilling.
Thank you for being you, HW. 🖤🤘🏼
My pleasure!!
For myself using various products to achieve my music goals includes using analog physical gear along with incorporating certain types of technologies to enhance my experience. Great thing that comes to mind would be using the quad cortex, long before I had that unit I owned a few plugins that I would use when I would record into my DAW. Now all of a sudden my quad cortex has some plug-in compatibility... But there seems to be a pretty big distinction between, core unit functionality, and additional presets amplifiers or secondary peripherals, like unit fx, noise gates, looper pedal and the trails function (you call it spill over) I've never used a Kemper product, this kind of marketing ensures that I never will.
a) they didn't build a unit as cheap as they could - it has more processing power than needed for the lv1 functions so your paying for hardware you can't use
b) if you don't want/need any of the additional amps/fx or even preset slots but only the upDATE (because that is what it is) to the main functional software you still have to pay for everything - I wouldn't have a problem with paid tiers for the extra fx models (or fx packs)
c) the initial product and software have been release just a year ago with maybe telling people that they are intending to charge for upgrades but A) not clearly enough for people really to realize (kind of a "in the smallprint" move) and B) not that it would be the price of nearly a complete Tonex pedal (NOT talking about the mini Tonex but the real one)
d) if you can make it 4 pre and 4 post effects with the same hardware but you release it with 2and2 that is either very lazy (or bad) programming or the pure definition of crippleware and a 100% money grab move to charge for that 4and4 afterwards (hell, the lazy programming bit happens all the time in grafic cards but nobody would ever come up with PAID updates for that)
e) your interpretation of what they wrote in the advert (of it showing that they will not charge for future updates and that the unit will get the same updates as the bigger units) is exactly that - an interpretation and to be frank it's wishful thinking
Before I bought a player and the $300 upgrade I would buy another stage. Don’t know the hate on the stage size. I got dedicated buttons for everything I need. Performances, banks, pedal on and off tuner. What I would like is a midi controller in the format of a Marshall head or similar for live knob turning.
People these days want everything for free... I think getting an almost full-fledged Kemper for 2/3 of the price is incredible value... It's optional people! You don't HAVE to upgrade if you're happy with the base-unit. If not, you can upgrade it to an almost full Kemper , at a lower price-point... This is good business.
Like you'd buy 300 Usd upgrades to your 500 Usd digital amp modeler.
I own the kemper toaster. I dont disagree with them charging for these updates. Honestly it protects the original buyers that paid the big price tags to have these features. I wouldnt be happy if the player owners got the same things i have for less than half the price most of us paid originally to have a kemper. Player came out to be smaller and stripped down for people not a fan of tweaking like on the larger units.
If the player fits your needs than thats great. If the upgrades fit your needs and wants than go and buy it. No one is pulling an apple and sabotaging units to force an upgrade. They are merely giving you an option to have more if you eant more. Im sure some people are happy with the player as is and wont upgrade and still be happy. People bitch and complain when they "have" to spend money, thats their problem to have if they choose to feel that way. If they dont like it they should have bought a stage or toaster.
This isn't really a paid "update" as much as a paid "upgrade." Paying more for more technology. Shocker
Yeah, I agree. It would be different if they wanted 150$ a pop for firmware update and bug fixes for the full size Kemper.
@@jwright8838 exactly
It's not "more" technology. The technology is there already. This is software only, software that was already done for the other formats
@@OneFingerSnap I hear what you are saying, but really its related to the software. Though the Kemper Player has the memory and dsp power to run the full Kemper software, it doesn't have all the routing and switching that the full Kemper has. Do the hardware differences (can't make profiles) justify the lower price or are the software differences also part of that lower price for the Player. Dunno.
@@OneFingerSnap Software would be the technology....
You do come off as a like a Kemper shill though. Kneecapping the Player is BS.
@@PrewarGuitarMusic They should have stated that there was going to be a pay tier in the beginning.
@@BlackPatti They're Not taking anything away from what they sold. Hey, who wants to spend more money? I get it. But they do have to make money. The Player is not for me. I have a rack, remote with two expression pedals and two switches attached. So how do they get more money from me? It's a business, They have employees, real estate. If they sell a product and it reaches market saturation, and they never make another product, they are out of business.
honest that's exactly what i was thinking, selling your soul for whatever kemper is paying (which won't be ground breaking he has 40k subs) is just scumbag behaviour, there is zero justification for this 300 dollar upgrade they've just limited you so you pay more.
Kemper is over. A million kempers in the used market and nobody buys them. With so many better and cheaper options noone cares about kemper anymore
Yeah right. 😔
Currently more big stadium touring bands still using Kempers than any other digital device.
@@guitartoneSAnot sure about that. I think it’s fractal right now
kemper the best
I won’t say Kemper is the best but it’s been the best solution for me. Love my Kemper
@@guitartoneSA kemper's website only has 3 big names or so lol. Check Fractals page and compare. Kemper is done and this was the nail in the coffin
While I find it a little sad that I have to pay the upgrade for each device and not per user account, I get where they are coming from.
I was able to talk to Christoph Kemper at Guitar Summit this weekend, where he said they talked about the options but consider it as a hardware upgrade.
Did they add a gain sensitivity like they do for a clean sensitivity? My Mr. Britt higher gain profiles sort of suck. Like anything over for bars is pretty much useless live, for me anyways. They sound real digital. I thought if I could turn the gain sensitivity down a little bit it would help. BTW I'm going to buy the tone junkies Tweed deluxe. The video of that profile just sounds absolutely dope. My favorite Mr Brit is the Dumble. Absolutely amazing. But then I run a couple drives in front of it.
I think the problem with this was the way they did it.
You know, if it was launched it with two or three options from the beginning, and the buyer could choose any one I think it would be fine, but, they launched a simpler option by taking things they already have, and only a few monts later they say, oh, you know, I can give you some of the stuff I said I coudn't give if you only pay me a little more.
I think this is the problem.
7 minutes in and you’re trivialising child abuse with your ‘Where did the bad man touch you?’ joke. Classy. Really classy.
I’m here all week! 🥁 🥂
@@ToneJunkieTVYou’re here all weak.
Already bought lvl3 its awesome what this little shiat can do with it.
I'm more worried that other companies will release new products and lock features behind a paywall like the player.
This is a valid concern!
as a company they have the right to do what they want. Customers have the right to dislike it and voice their opinion against it or if they like it to but it. My opinion is that with the options available now, if they wanted to offer a unit with fewer capabilities and then upgrade to paid normal capabilities, the price doesn't make sense. The full capability player maybe should have been at the $700-800 range and the unit without those functions perhaps at $500. To get a fully capable Player for $1200 when there is the Nano cortex and Tonex at much less is not gonna be a good business strategy and makes many of their customers feel a little ripped off and willing to sell their units. Especially now that the Kemper is not as relevant as it used to be and their technology seems old in comparison.
Yes, it's not much to buy the full unlock upgrade for 300 €, I agree with you! You only get one or two good pedals for that. But if you follow the practices of the competition, Kemper is breaking new ground, which is met with incomprehension by a large part of the community. Customer loyalty through continuous new software updates has always been a reason to buy the Kemper. Product maintenance should not be subject to a paywall. I am reminded here of the Eventide H9 , now H90 ! At the end of the day, it's about customer loyalty to a product, which in my opinion is best achieved through customer-friendly product maintenance that is not hidden behind a paywall. Another reason for the rumbling in the community is the fact that the player would have been able to cover the bandwidth that can now be purchased via the upgrades right from the start. This leaves many with a bitter aftertaste, which is linked to the question: “Would I have bought the player for €1000?” - Food for thoughts! So, in the end, it's a personal decision whether it's worth the money. I hope for Kemper that this business model does not have a negative effect on the good reputation that the company has earned. Just my 2 cents!
"He's shilling right under our noses" 😂😂😂😂 I need someone to make a cartoon out of this audio!!!!! Love this!!
Upgraded my Player to level3. It's pretty damn fine and sounds just like my Stage. Any of you naysayers actually have a Kemper? Thought not...
Man I haven’t been involved in the guitar message board community for years….
But your Crystal Lettuce deep cut, the “shilling” commentary….
The blues lawyer attacks… man, you killed it. Right on the nose.
Was on their site to purchase and all the “add to cart” items are grayed out. Updated my rig manager and profile player to latest os as well. It is a great deal. Most of my good pedals cost 300 each. Kristoff was upfront and we knew it was coming. Best deal around. Don’t like it don’t buy it. Have you every played any high end video games that have all the extra packages. Same deal.
Ok it says they are offline due to a security breech. Yikes.
I am all for paid upgrades. 300€ seems a lot. Maybe is the way they marketed it.
HW I think the thing that annoys a lot of people is it looks like they released a partially finished/ nerfed product and then finished it and decided to upcharge to get the finished unit breaking from previous established practices by the company.
It does feel a lot like DLC . I think there is also some sticker shock here
To play a Neural plugin on a QC you need to pay $100 for one amp plugin...that's DLC.
Ten years ago Line 6 were charging $50 for a few new amp.models...also DLC.
Almost every guitarists I know, which is hundreds and hundreds because I'm in the business, wastes/loses thousands of dollars every few years on gear they sell, trade, swap, don't use...but they cry about paying $150 for an upgrade to a piece of gear they absolutely love and use daily to earn money.
One gig and the $150 is paid.
@@guitartoneSAthe neural plugins aren’t a 1:1 though. Neural aren’t charging you for the ABILITY to use the plugin. The plugins are primarily for studio use so if you’ve already bought them for that then you’ve got them. If not then you’ve got plenty of models/captures to choose from.
Charging for an update though…just feels weird man. I get what you’re saying though.
Hey, in the radiology equipment industry, companies often sell CT scanners with the hardware to do 128-channel scans but only include software for 16-channel scans. They do this so you can pay less now and upgrade later. It's the same for other radiology equipment. It doesn't make sense for Kemper to make different hardware for each level of equipment. You just pay for the software features you want, and the hardware should be able to handle software updates. We knew these updates would cost money, but I hoped they'd be cheaper. But who am I to judge the prices others set? I can only hope for a promotion.
Yeah I'm torn. Line6 did this in the past as well with paid updates. I think the issue here is actually the price.
Thanks for explaining in detail !! Great Video from the UK 🇬🇧
I think had the unit launched with three levels from the get go, no one would be concerned or upset… week, maybe less people would be upset because someone is always upset.
StompXL user here. No skin in the Neural/Kemper game. The thought that an upgraded software subscription was needed to "unlock" hardware that I'd already purchased would get me fuming. I just really hope this model (pun intended) doesn't catch on. If it does, this bass player is going back to a trusty SansAmp.
Agree 1000000000000%..spot on !! They are still selling the the bigger Kemper units (profiler, powered, stage...)..owning a powerhead, I would be pissed if the player could do all of the prem features for $700. Upgrades cost money, period.
This shill trying to claim he’s not biased 😂
ToneX everything pack on sale for $99…
Link in description
What not to do if you own a company.
What’s with jean shorts taking stray bullets?
I apologize to the Jean short community
And that’s another reason why the brand is losing its space to other brands… that’s pathetic!
"How dare you make money." I looked at the Player. But I still think I want a head and floor switching. Can't see myself bending over to adjust settings on the Stage.
No reason to be upset or not. We can voice our opinions with our wallets. If you don't like Kemper, buy another platform. Luckily we have a choice.
Amen!!
It's such an amazing time to be a guitar player right now, everyone stop whining and go make your own pedal fsakes, Kemper Rules.
The only good thing about this Kemper paid upgrade is that it stopped everyone yapping about the Nano Cortex.
You dont get it, its starts with limitation . Next step is you'll pay monthly fee to use the unit .
It's always been like this, it starts like this. A bad move is a bad move. A loved bad move is something that can be worse, simple logic.
Since you are buying the hardware, the product IS yours. This is NOT an Update IS an " Upgrade" ( when they really unlock the full capability of the unit).
This means that whenever the builder wants , the brand can offer a new upgrade or expansion and the costumer has always to pay for features that are locked in the hardware. In my opinion that's a bad movement, because anyone Who has not any Kemper product yet gonna think twice .
Also, why do people get so bent out of shape when guys like you plug your products?? This channel is your brand! They don't get bent out of shape when Gibson TV put out a video of the latest new guitar! Can't wait for the new IR's ;)
Totally ok with paying good money for good profiles. Totally NOT ok with a on purpose crippled devices that gets "upgraded" for money to do what it probably could have done from the beginning. Yes, it is still cheaper than the Stage with the upgrades - but it has less IO, much less switches and can NOT profile.
Sorry, I will not support this kind of business model.
Oh, and I think you are quite disrespectful with the critics. Does not suite you, really like your other videos.
Do you own a Kemper Player?
@@guitartoneSAyes I do. Actually quite liked it…
As someone who had used your profiles on tour, and I say this with all due respect: this take is completely tone deaf.
Would you like it if your brand new BMW which came installed from the factory with heated seats requires a subscription? Because that's a real thing BMW has done and it's no different than this: arbitrarily removing functionality for profit. It didn't cost any more in manufacturing, but you'll charge the consumer a fee simply for the privilege of the manufacturing flipping a switch. It's no different when Apple removes functionality when you get a genuine part replacement from someone other than their repair service.
I've been out of the gear talk discussion for a long time, but I'm a firm believer in right-to-repair and eliminating greedy corporate practices such as this. The Kemper platform is 12+ years old, and while we have had some software improvements, they're limiting the capability of the entire platform to a decade old chip in their "top of the line product" when competition in the space is closer than ever. I understand not wanting to undercut the stage, but a fully functional Player at $700 would've been a much better competitor to the ToneX or Quad Cortex.
I'm not mad at a $1000 Kemper Player, I'm disappointed that they've been selling the same thing in a slightly smaller, slightly less featured boxes instead of innovating. They did the same thing with initially preventing the Stage from profiling, and they did it again with the Player. I would guess the chip in the Player is more powerful than the full Toaster.
Yes, gear talk discussions get really stupidly tribal at times, but maybe don't use your platform to call your customers "losers."
Obviously Kempers algorithm is superior to the competition...keeping in mind the sound comes from the algorithm not the chip.
Innovate?
Liquid Profiling algorithm.
Go watch Leo Gibsons latest video comparing the Player to the Nano Cortex.
Watch from 22:00 minutes.
Comparing a Liquid Profile and Cortex Capture of his Marshall.
When using the Gain & EQ controls on both units the Player is 18% more accurate (sound and authenticity wise) to the actual Marshall than the QC.
So do we want Christophe Kemper to use a more powerful chip then spend ages programming a new algorithm, which will in one way or another change our favourite Kemper tones just for the sake of us psychologically knowing we have a new chip in our units?
Whatever chip he's using the algorithm is pure genius considering what all is on the full package of FX, Cabinets, IRs, etc that can now be stored on the Player.
Even though I have no intention to upgrade my Player I'll just continue enjoying the free updates.
Kemper has made a rod for it's own back imo by creating a product as future-proof as the BIG Kempers. If they release 'Big Kemper II', for thousands, who's gonna buy it? Big Kemper I is still great. So how does Kemper keep the business growing? Establish software linked to accounts, not hardware is my guess. Yeah, you can have all the new software on the ebay Profiler you just bought, but you're going to have to register and pay X for the updates. IK already does this with hardware, where you have to pay to transfer hardware licences/ownership. I don't like it, but how many new Big Kempers are being sold these days vs used ones?
Are these actually like sofware DLCs or literal hardware variants?
Thank you for the first 2 mins 😂
Any time!
Why people are upset? Because of the larger can't stand it anymore phenomenon of SUBSCRIPTIONS and SAAS for products that never needed them in the past.
Thank you so very much for speaking your mind bro, I've been a TJ fan for like 8 years lol I love kemper and so hate that I don't have one right now. I just started playing in church again but lost my job and have a wife and child, so I'm saving every dollar I have until I can get another one. 'Ps the I think the player with the upgrade is worth every penny haha ❤
Please do the comedy protest voice all the time. It’s so much better than the Kermit voice you usually have.
Keep up the good work son.
😂 Wait what’s the Kermit voice I usually do?