You obviously have not done very much research about the McKenzie method if you think that it doesn't ask which movements cause pain. Directional preference is a cornerstone of the McKenzie method. It is not the one-size-fits-all methodology that you are describing. This is the danger of a non-credentialed trainer or therapist claiming to have "researched" an approach that credentialed McKenzie therapists have spent years perfecting. A thorough movement exam, including repeated movements and sustained positions are used to classify back issues into categories. Mechanical pain is only one of those categories, and extension is only one of the movements used to treat patients whose exam puts them in that category. The statement that McKenzie is all about extension exercises is completely false and harmful to people who are in pain and looking for help for their condition.
Hhmmmm I would’ve like to see his response to this but interesting how there is none but to almost everyone else if they praise his video or didn’t find help with McKenzie.
For your information, after months of attending Physiotherapists for sciatica, during my sleepless nights I discovered the Robin McKenzie method. Within 2 weeks, sciatica gone. Must be some reason Robin McKenzie’s method became world famous and he was decorated by the Queen if England.
@@elizabethmcandrew4985because it work , and it is magic and it has not come back . He does not know what he is talking about. Bla bla blnever heard so much words salad
Mckenzie method and foam rolling worked for me. Sciatica for 2 years. I had a herniated disc. Worst pain ive ever experienced. PT and spinal injections. Consistently tried anything and everything I could find. Nothing was better for my situation than the mckenzie method and foam rolling. I'm not saying you're wrong. Just putting my experience out there. 😊
Hey Taylor, thanks for sharing your experience. TBH, there are many ways to improve the bodies function and I'm pumped you found success. As you very well know, living with movement pain SUCKS!!! I'm pretty sure that's a very appropriate word to use. The Mckenzie method can have a place and like you said, it was good for your situation. I hope others can learn that there are other perhaps more reliable methods out there too! My very best to you!
Wow, for me, a big portion of the frustration of having sciatica pain is how CONFUSING treatment methods are online. Everywhere I look I see videos saying "do THIS, not THAT", then more videos saying " no no, dont do THAT, do THIS". Its exhausting and confusing. I feel like im having to become an expert on human anatomy just to deal with my chronic pain.
Thanks for your comment Steve. Your comment is not far off and to be honest, there is no ONE way to fix someone's movement pain. Our hope with our content is to open up the possibilities of what else can work. In our experience, traditional techniques have been very limited in their approach. While they may be giving many people good results, we like to ask long did the results last or did the treatment really get down to the root cause. Long story short, your are right, we do need to become human anatomy experts to help solve chronic pain. The best answer for your pain is "it depends"! Meaning, your issue is unique to you and your movement situations. The video that I would like to make is simply this... Book a movement assessment with us and we'll problem solve your movement uniqueness.
It is not possible to diagnose and treat yourself for back pain by using online videos. If it was that easy, then we wouldn't need physiotherapists to do this sort of work.
The McKenzie Method is just a named technique for progressive end-range loading. What you have described in this video "Case study" is just end-range loading while standing, something that is included in the McKenzie diagnostic criteria. If the affected leg is behind and the hip is extended, then you have also extended the spine. Just like in the McKenzie method. the main mechanism of action in the McKenzie method is desensitization and inhibition of pain pathways from the thalamus. Look up pain gate pathway mechanisms, and you will find that is all you are doing. In short, you are rubbing a stubbed toe or rubbing your elbow after hitting your "funny bone" of something. Your "Chain reaction biomechanics" will have no significant improvement compared to seeing a musculoskeletal healthcare provider. I suggest you read peer-reviewed literature prior to making many false statements.
Thanks for your prospective. We continue to find too many gaps in the literature for us to feel good about what the traditional industry is teaching or how it is educating. We also continue to have significant results with clients who have already seen such health care providers and had no to limited progress. You may be the exception. If that’s the case please continue to share your work with the world.
Improvements aren’t necessarily coming from the Chain Reaction Biomechanics, as they are merely bridging the gap in how to think through such an experience. Addressing the issue in upright function, manual soft tissue therapy to create access, then molding that access to a preferred movement pattern ultimately seems like the path to sustainability. No? I think it’s great that Gymnazo provided another lens to view the body, and in that lens, you are directly addressing the person in their respective ADLs
I not seen a single video that accurately teaches McKenzie method so I love to see you credentials? My experience with inflamed clients can't tolerate loaded so I am totally confused how we got from supine to upright? Gait training? But I am not finished watching....
@@focusedtraining You are missing the point. Too bad. PTs don't only do Therapeutic Exercises, Gait Training, and Neuromuscular Reeducation, but Manual Therapy, too, as well as, Therapeutic Activities. It is a holistic approach, to say the least.
The gentleman doth protest too much, me thinks! (My adaptation from Hamlet by William Shakespeare; it's meaning: This phrase originally used the word Lady instead of gentleman, and today this phrase is more generally used to express disbelief in the face of someone’s protestations about their innocence of something they are suspected of being guilty of, due to their words or actions, or both.) Robin McKenzie, a physiotherapist developed the McKenzie Method in the 1960's(?) and called it Mechanical Diagnosis and Therapy. The McKenzie Method is known for its "lumbar" extension exercises, but it included trunk flexion exercises, as well. The McKenzie Method was trying to update the Williams Flexion Exercise protocol, that PTs were using, at the time. As a PT, I use the McKenzie Method and it's been very good in helping myself and my patients - yes, I said it, it works. Similar to you saying the extension is useful, but not because of the lumbar extension, but because of the hip extension. I'm glad you noted the importance of hip extension, but could the McKenzie Method be helping to take the pressure off the nerve if pressure is being exerted by a bulging or herniated disc? I would say yes - it's possible. You don't want to ignore a problem that might be the main culprit, causing pain. Give it time to heal - 8 weeks?, and then you will have other problems develop (if they hadn't been there before - musculoskeletal problems and nerve entrapment, too. Interesting, you showed a position you had a lady be put in, and it is doing similar things that are done in McKenzie. When the patient is standing with right leg behind and left leg in front with the upper torso vertical to the floor, you are creating back extension and the internal rotation of the right leg in the back position is creating possibly a lateral shift of the spine to the right. In the McKenzie Method, if the extension (used for a disc problem) causes pain, then the patients legs are shifted left or right and do extension with legs to the side where pain is decreased. By doing toe-in of the back leg (internal rotation of the hip) on this lady, you are side-gliding the right hip laterally. In McKenzie there is a protocol to combine this with the back extension exercise in prone or standing whether you have a disc problem putting pressure on a nerve, due to a mechanical injury, wear and tear from poor posture over time, or repetitive motions. I combine the McKenzie exercises with what I have learned in the Total Motion Release (TMR) process developed by a PT - Tom Dalonzo-Baker, over 20 years ago, and he also looks at the total body to see what might be causing the problem on a musculoskeletal and nerve level - just as you show, sciatica could be caused by a neuro-musculoskeletal problem anywhere in the spine, rib cage, or in the extremities. Tom has developed exercises to help locate the culprit areas, as often one sees, you can have several bad guys, as you yourself talked about in your video. So I will give you 1 star for that. (LOL!) So please, don't poo, poo physical therapy. It makes you sound prideful, very petty, like you've been slighted somehow. You don't need to do that. Your message is good, just your presentation is poor.
When i do mcenzie pres ups it make my sciatica even worse so im confused.Everybody with disc herniation cant bend forward.And i cant forward and backword .So its really misteriy for me why
Hi, I've been limping for 7 years due to a bad knee and now I'm limping for the sake of limping to oversimplify my story. I've been trying to explain to at least 10 medical professionals over the years how my now uneven hips make the one good leg shorter, which alone makes me limp, nobody could see that the hip of the affected leg is higher and turned in slightly. I can see it, I can feel it, I can measure it. Your video was my missing link. This one simple exercise you showed already put my foot of the shorter leg back on the ground and I've only tried it once. I put my limping leg behind and moved my (higher) hip around carefully. I have a herniated disc at L5/S1 because of the limp and because I was left alone to work on my hips and posture and in my dispair I did... I am aware that I shouldn't force your exercise on my body right now so I'll be very gentle or postpone it altogether. But it will make me come out of the vicious circle. Thank you!
I appreciate the thought process my friend! Just wanted to mention this is pretty standard how all therapists should work. Mckenzie method is great, but its about simply finding methods to ease ones pain. Extension is great, and often needed for many individuals (including myself) during flare ups, but not everyone. It simply depends on the symptoms and response. it is not a bandaid, it is allowing one to progress through an acute phase of injury to begin rebuilding and tolerating loads of daily life. After this is accomplished of course one might want to try to further understand the prevention part, and that is further allowing might be causing there issue. You found an aggravator, had an idea, tried the idea, provided relief, and leaned into it. She may have been stiff in her lumbar spine (this is an assumption), striding increases extension, increasing hip extension requires less lumbar extension, and by adding other areas of movement, required less movement in the area of soreness, allowing to walk with less symptoms. Totally fine approach.
I apologize in advance for the long winded reply. But i just couldn't let this sit here with all the comments that feel this is actually a good video. When it bashes a method so horrible and outdated that it is in 40 countries and growing! 1. MDT is actually in 40 countries and is by far the most well studied methodology out there. 2. It consists of classes A-E, taking a certification exam and advance studies via Diploma program over a year. I can only assume none, since you are a personal trainer, you don’t qualify to even start the training. So, how this qualifies you to bash something you cannot even speak intelligently of? 3. Example: Prone lying and prone extension which is you description of MDT is only a technique used. It is not what MDT is. MDT is a classification system proven effective in actual clinical studies. You didn’t touch on Things like directional preference and Centralization, again proven indicators of correct treatment. 4. I am a McKenzie Diplomat (as well as a practicing GOATA Coach) using the system since 1999 and I can assure you, your description of what you believe MDT is, is actually laughable and as well as possibly liable. So, I will pass this on to McKenzie USA as well as McKenzie Institute International and their legal teams to see if it warrants further discussion 5. When you are describing anything that starts from the lumbar spine and or hip and talking about symptoms referring/radiating into the leg and start tying to negate the lumbar spine as a culprit before clearing it FIRST, speaks of your lack of education/knowledge on the topic. Then you talk about a tight hip flexor as a culprit. Muscles are always the symptom, never the cause. 6. I am very happy you feel you have found a way to treat something that is actually pretty easy to treat via the methods of Robin McKenzie. Robin McKenzie was a genius, as he makes me look great in the clinic every day. Thanks to him, We market ourselves and excel at treating the worst cases and preventing surgery! 7. So you have your own solution, awesome, but sure why you feel you have to bash on a treatment method that you have not taken because you don’t have the credentials. You haven’t read any studies, or your would know of it’s effectiveness. You haven’t read any of his many books or you wouldn’t describe it as prone lying/press ups. 8. Maybe treat 30,000 patients plus, then come back with your findings and get laughed at and chastised as he was for 20 years until the world (MD’s who were threatened by him), realized he was actually right. Before you throw smoke about something you obviously have no clue about 9. By the way, the causes of Sciatica are also well documented. If you sit alot or bend alot you are at high risk for LBP. We all sit or bend 3-5000x/day. So, no amount of stretching or strengthening is going to fix that. No matter if you have a 6 pack or a 12 pack. As i have treated many elite CrossFitters who were shredded. Yet that did not prevent LBP. I have gotten folk > 50 lbs overweight pain free in 1 session, so obesity isn't the the reason. And the recurrence rate within a year is about 50-60%. However MDT training clinicians have reduced that to less than 10% recurrence rate w/ correct behavioral changes and maintenance program. 10. Side bar, Diploma Trained clinicians have been proven to be able to predict the outcomes of MRI's w/ 85-95% consistency and draw the fissure patten of a discogram with a Kappa value right at 1.0 which is phenomenal. So, I will say this again, Robin McKenzie was a genius. I am more than happy to discuss this off line. Thanks
I really loved the part where you described the femur moving a bit slower than the pelvis. Picturing the sequencing really helps understand what's going on inside.
This does not properly described the McKenzie method and anyone who has taken a course or received a true McKenzie evaluation would understand that. I feel we should always be critical of our approach to helping patients but we should take time to understand the approach prior to dismissing it as outdated. This is a common misconception that the method relies only on extension.
Hello Apex, thanks for your comment. You are correct, my examples of the McKenzie exercises are not 100% complete. However, there is no video that I have found that shows such alternative exercises. Even the video on your channel about this same topic shows the same exercises that I described on my video. I really appreciate your efforts and desire to help educate the population. The mission of this channel is to provide further perspective and education on principle based movement methods. Those that have gravity, ground reaction forces, mass and momentum as it relates to upright function and its applicable application. I would really, turly, enjoy talking more with you about this topic and how we could best understand each others best practices and how we have found sustainable results with our patients and clients.
So glad someone is finally addressing this! I've been suffering from sciatica and most of the videos just talk about those other scapegoats he mentioned! I have disc degeneration in my lumbar spine so I get alot of muscle spasms in my back which affects my sciatic nerve.
Thank you! Glad you were able to get some value out of it! Sorry you're dealing with sciatica! We do virtual sessions, so if you're interested in having one of our coaches do an assessment for you, you can try to find a time that works for you here: www.gymnazo.com/consultation/ Hope you can find some relief soon!
Ok how my clients have presented in this way? I think this is another tool and not something that discounts McKenzie method.. my experience with a professional spine specialist using this method was very positive. So I am super confused why we delete positive tools but rather add to it. I think all these ideas are a progression to not a dismissal of low back derangement...
Hi, why can't it just be a nerve root issue that's being pinched in lumbar spine? How about if tightness soreness is steady regardless of movement? Mine is bilateral running classic l4-l5 pattern.
It could be a nerve root issue but I always ask, but why or how did that nerve get pinched? It also can be painful with static positioning but unless the body was hit by something the underlying issue is most likely movement or musculoskeletal in nature.
🤯 I’ve been dealing with sciatica pain for a year I’ve tried everything and only epidural shots gave more freedom of movement without the pain but I can still feel that something is not right. I’ve always tried to explain to the doctors that only certain movements triggered the pain just like the lady in the video. But it was like talking to a wall medication it’s all they know but this has given me hope and I’ve always knew that I wasn’t a very flexible person so that could have been one of the root causes specially working construction.
Glad we were able to provide some clarity and hope for you. Many medical professionals are not fully educated in the biomechanics of the body and how to effectively problem solve to get to the root causes of musculoskeletal dysfunctions like Sciatica. Epidural shots are only a temporary solution. The thing that is going to help you get rid of Sciatica long-term is understanding where the root cause is coming from within your chain of movement, which is different for everyone. If you're still experiencing Sciatica, we would be happy to help you get to the root of what's causing your pain. You can book a consultation with us by clicking the link below. Either way hope you feel better soon! www.gymnazo.com/consultation/
Hello Concepcion Molina. Thanks for the comment. Please let me know why you let me know that you can't lay on your back. The video doesn't ask you to lay on your back. Or perhaps you're just sharing more information with me. My best to you!
Thanks for your support. We are focused on the explanation or why behind the issues. Most videos, we have found, just show what exercises to do but don't share why to do them.
This can work for a herniated disc but like all techniques they are limited to the individual situation. Give the process in the video a try can only continue with pain free movement. This is very important. We never want to force a round peg to fit into a square hole.
Your input is quite misinformative here. I´ve used the mckenzie-method for over 25 years i physioterapy in a c u t e p h a s e s of backpain or sciatica when there is an indication that the disc is the cause of the problem to treat the pain, and it is quite effective. Once the pain eases, you can move in to the cause of the pain etc. For you to blacklist the method like this is not good. And what is your source of knowledge about the method here, other youtubers...?
I found to much chatter and not enough exercise all hyou did was talk about a patients problem would be better if he showed exact exercise with a second person you lost me 3mins in your voice is droning
Hey there Gayle! We are making a point to talk more about the education surrounding the movement issues vs just exercises. This is b/c exercises are a "dime a dozen" and may or may not work depending on the intention of the exercise. If you go to min. 14 in the video you'll see one of the most common exercises to this issue. Please check it out and follow along.
Hey Vaskar! I'm happy that you are looking for solutions. The video you watched was about how to think about the problem and why the problem is there. But, if you go to min. 14 in the video you'll see one of the most common exercise to this issue. Please check it out and follow along. Also, we are literally making a video on more possible solutions, exercises and movements to be posted very, very soon! Hit the notification bell on our channel so you know when we share it.
That's a quote we get often, "I didn't know that (muscle) was there"! Great for you for trying that position or stretch out. Keep us posted as you progress!!!
@@Gymnazo I’ve been doing these for a week. And it’s helped SO MUCH, I’m 40 and was feeling like I was 140 🤣 I think I was scared to bend or stretch because it hurt. But dang , I was just STIFF. I honestly thought something was bad wrong
@@carris2scents57 Stoked to read of your results! Great job with your consistency! That is one of the most important factors of physical progress. If you are still finding limitations with your movement keep us posted.
Hey Johnny, appreciate the feedback in helping us to make our videos better. Will work on introducing my ideas earlier in videos moving forward. Thanks again! Cheers, MH
Thanks for the comment. We CAN be in your country 😉 Well, at least virtually for the time being. If you want a virtual assessments or training let us know. You can email intro@gymnazo.com !
This video should be taken down and redone by the creator. He has no understanding of the McKenzie Method and is only creating more confusion for those in pain and potentially doing them a disservice in finding they assistance they need. The creator is not allowed to take McKenzie courses and therefore is not someone to listen to on the subject.
Hey Matt, thanks for sharing your opinion. Your are certainly entitled to it. I won't be taking down this video b/c it informs people of an alternative method that has had proven results where the McKenzie method did not achieve those same results with those clients. Though in the video, I do say the McKenzie method can work in certain circumstance with certain people. Confusion, in my opinion, is hiding or restricting information that could, and has gotten clients/ patients out of pain. So a quick side note. This is where I'm going to get on a soap box... This is not personal.... I guess the bigger question that comes up is, why would I not be "allowed" to take a McKenzie course. Is that b/c I'm not a Physical Therapist? Yep. So therefore, only certain people with $100,000 in student loans and 3 years of school (that the vast majority of that information is available in books and videos for free or in other places) should know how to perform basic exercises. That just doesn't seem right. TBH, all of the McKenzie exercises are simply that, exercises. These "supposedly off limits" drills are not hands on manipulation or surgery. They are just knowledge of biomechanics. Which I have and offer to those who are willing and open to listen and watch. If there are best practices that are available, in my opinion, they should be shared. I'm in the business to help people move better and be free of movement pain. I'm pretty sure Physical Therapists are too. Let's not let egos get in the way. Let's let the best science and best practices lead the way. My very best to you and your practice to help as many people as you can.
The longer I listen the worse it gets… Discrediting McKenzie (probably the best researched treatments for back pain) because you found better success foam rolling and stretching the hip flexor. Get a real job man. You’re a big part of the problem. -regards.
@@zldemers Hey Zachary, thanks for sharing your opinion on treatment options. Conversations like this will only make our industry better. Well, your personal attacking approach won't. In any case, I'm not sure how we(I) are part of a problem by posting videos in which the education is helping people in situations where treatments like or exactly McKenzie method DID NOT work. The best part of this whole thing, let the best practitioner win. Who benefits, the client and patient. Our first goal is to do no harm or to help improve. That's what I'm doing by direct feedback or "research" from my community. So, I'll keep my real job doing helpful things for people in need. thank you!
This is actually hilarious You have no idea what the McKenzie method even is. You start by getting on your stomach. That’s not the McKenzie method. That’s a position used in the System. The method is an assessment system to classify nonspecific low back pain, which therefore increases success of treatment. we don’t just throw random treatment as low back. Low Back Pain treatment has been proven to be direction specific. And there are certain benchmarks you have to achieve. Often clinicians or “trainers” get clients better by simply getting people moving, which is awesome. But if you don’t achieve these certain benchmarks. Low back pain will always recur. 50 to 60% of the time within a year studies show. . You obviously have had no training in the method so you should probably walk this one back big guy. For what it’s worth I use the MacKenzie method and have since 1999 and we have an established reputation as the spine clinic.
I am a physiotherapist with 30 years experience and postgraduate qualifications. Your video displays your ignorance of the subtleties of managing patients with back pain. You are stuck in a 30 year out-of-date biomedical model that actual health professionals have long since moved on from. I implore anyone who watches this to take their painful back to a real health professional who is trained to safely diagnose their symptoms.
Hey there. Thanks for taking the time to post. I know McGill teachings pretty well but it seems like you know his methods more. Please explain how this "method" is like McGill . IMO, it is quite far from it. My best to you!
As a credentialed McKenzie provider I can say this guy has absolutely no idea what he is talking about when it comes to McKenzie assessment and treatment. Click bait
Hey Lornan. No we are not kidding you. That's the great think about content that is free on the internet, at least the good content. Also, virtual treatments and training are now a commonplace. We actually offer it if you would be interested.
Thanks for watching! As a trainer, are you interested in learning more about problem solving to get to the root cause of pain?
You obviously have not done very much research about the McKenzie method if you think that it doesn't ask which movements cause pain. Directional preference is a cornerstone of the McKenzie method. It is not the one-size-fits-all methodology that you are describing. This is the danger of a non-credentialed trainer or therapist claiming to have "researched" an approach that credentialed McKenzie therapists have spent years perfecting. A thorough movement exam, including repeated movements and sustained positions are used to classify back issues into categories. Mechanical pain is only one of those categories, and extension is only one of the movements used to treat patients whose exam puts them in that category. The statement that McKenzie is all about extension exercises is completely false and harmful to people who are in pain and looking for help for their condition.
Hhmmmm I would’ve like to see his response to this but interesting how there is none but to almost everyone else if they praise his video or didn’t find help with McKenzie.
For your information, after months of attending Physiotherapists for sciatica, during my sleepless nights I discovered the Robin McKenzie method. Within 2 weeks, sciatica gone. Must be some reason Robin McKenzie’s method became world famous and he was decorated by the Queen if England.
@@elizabethmcandrew4985because it work , and it is magic and it has not come back . He does not know what he is talking about. Bla bla blnever heard so much words salad
Mckenzie method and foam rolling worked for me.
Sciatica for 2 years. I had a herniated disc. Worst pain ive ever experienced. PT and spinal injections. Consistently tried anything and everything I could find.
Nothing was better for my situation than the mckenzie method and foam rolling.
I'm not saying you're wrong. Just putting my experience out there. 😊
Hey Taylor, thanks for sharing your experience. TBH, there are many ways to improve the bodies function and I'm pumped you found success. As you very well know, living with movement pain SUCKS!!! I'm pretty sure that's a very appropriate word to use. The Mckenzie method can have a place and like you said, it was good for your situation. I hope others can learn that there are other perhaps more reliable methods out there too! My very best to you!
Going through this for months now Please God send me an Angel to show me the pathway out 😞 really takes over your life 😤 wish I lived near you sir 🙏🏻
Wow, for me, a big portion of the frustration of having sciatica pain is how CONFUSING treatment methods are online. Everywhere I look I see videos saying "do THIS, not THAT", then more videos saying " no no, dont do THAT, do THIS". Its exhausting and confusing. I feel like im having to become an expert on human anatomy just to deal with my chronic pain.
Thanks for your comment Steve. Your comment is not far off and to be honest, there is no ONE way to fix someone's movement pain. Our hope with our content is to open up the possibilities of what else can work. In our experience, traditional techniques have been very limited in their approach. While they may be giving many people good results, we like to ask long did the results last or did the treatment really get down to the root cause. Long story short, your are right, we do need to become human anatomy experts to help solve chronic pain. The best answer for your pain is "it depends"! Meaning, your issue is unique to you and your movement situations. The video that I would like to make is simply this... Book a movement assessment with us and we'll problem solve your movement uniqueness.
This is a wiseman comment. Great one Steve🎉
AMEN 🙏🏽 🙏🏽 🙏🏽. I'm just going too get surgery!!!!!! I've already prayed. God heals and he's NOT TRYING TOO MAKE MONEY OFF OF OUR PAIN AMEN????
The comment above yours demonstrates that a thorough examination from a professional is the best way to know which approach would work best for you.
It is not possible to diagnose and treat yourself for back pain by using online videos. If it was that easy, then we wouldn't need physiotherapists to do this sort of work.
The McKenzie Method is just a named technique for progressive end-range loading. What you have described in this video "Case study" is just end-range loading while standing, something that is included in the McKenzie diagnostic criteria. If the affected leg is behind and the hip is extended, then you have also extended the spine. Just like in the McKenzie method. the main mechanism of action in the McKenzie method is desensitization and inhibition of pain pathways from the thalamus. Look up pain gate pathway mechanisms, and you will find that is all you are doing. In short, you are rubbing a stubbed toe or rubbing your elbow after hitting your "funny bone" of something. Your "Chain reaction biomechanics" will have no significant improvement compared to seeing a musculoskeletal healthcare provider. I suggest you read peer-reviewed literature prior to making many false statements.
Thanks for your prospective. We continue to find too many gaps in the literature for us to feel good about what the traditional industry is teaching or how it is educating. We also continue to have significant results with clients who have already seen such health care providers and had no to limited progress. You may be the exception. If that’s the case please continue to share your work with the world.
Improvements aren’t necessarily coming from the Chain Reaction Biomechanics, as they are merely bridging the gap in how to think through such an experience. Addressing the issue in upright function, manual soft tissue therapy to create access, then molding that access to a preferred movement pattern ultimately seems like the path to sustainability. No? I think it’s great that Gymnazo provided another lens to view the body, and in that lens, you are directly addressing the person in their respective ADLs
Savage
I not seen a single video that accurately teaches McKenzie method so I love to see you credentials? My experience with inflamed clients can't tolerate loaded so I am totally confused how we got from supine to upright? Gait training? But I am not finished watching....
@@focusedtraining You are missing the point. Too bad. PTs don't only do Therapeutic Exercises, Gait Training, and Neuromuscular Reeducation, but Manual Therapy, too, as well as, Therapeutic Activities. It is a holistic approach, to say the least.
Mackenzie works for me. But there’s no one size fits all for sciatica/herniated disc.
I work like magic for me too, when nothing else work.
The gentleman doth protest too much, me thinks! (My adaptation from Hamlet by William Shakespeare; it's meaning: This phrase originally used the word Lady instead of gentleman, and today this phrase is more generally used to express disbelief in the face of someone’s protestations about their innocence of something they are suspected of being guilty of, due to their words or actions, or both.) Robin McKenzie, a physiotherapist developed the McKenzie Method in the 1960's(?) and called it Mechanical Diagnosis and Therapy. The McKenzie Method is known for its "lumbar" extension exercises, but it included trunk flexion exercises, as well. The McKenzie Method was trying to update the Williams Flexion Exercise protocol, that PTs were using, at the time. As a PT, I use the McKenzie Method and it's been very good in helping myself and my patients - yes, I said it, it works. Similar to you saying the extension is useful, but not because of the lumbar extension, but because of the hip extension. I'm glad you noted the importance of hip extension, but could the McKenzie Method be helping to take the pressure off the nerve if pressure is being exerted by a bulging or herniated disc? I would say yes - it's possible. You don't want to ignore a problem that might be the main culprit, causing pain. Give it time to heal - 8 weeks?, and then you will have other problems develop (if they hadn't been there before - musculoskeletal problems and nerve entrapment, too. Interesting, you showed a position you had a lady be put in, and it is doing similar things that are done in McKenzie. When the patient is standing with right leg behind and left leg in front with the upper torso vertical to the floor, you are creating back extension and the internal rotation of the right leg in the back position is creating possibly a lateral shift of the spine to the right. In the McKenzie Method, if the extension (used for a disc problem) causes pain, then the patients legs are shifted left or right and do extension with legs to the side where pain is decreased. By doing toe-in of the back leg (internal rotation of the hip) on this lady, you are side-gliding the right hip laterally. In McKenzie there is a protocol to combine this with the back extension exercise in prone or standing whether you have a disc problem putting pressure on a nerve, due to a mechanical injury, wear and tear from poor posture over time, or repetitive motions. I combine the McKenzie exercises with what I have learned in the Total Motion Release (TMR) process developed by a PT - Tom Dalonzo-Baker, over 20 years ago, and he also looks at the total body to see what might be causing the problem on a musculoskeletal and nerve level - just as you show, sciatica could be caused by a neuro-musculoskeletal problem anywhere in the spine, rib cage, or in the extremities. Tom has developed exercises to help locate the culprit areas, as often one sees, you can have several bad guys, as you yourself talked about in your video. So I will give you 1 star for that. (LOL!) So please, don't poo, poo physical therapy. It makes you sound prideful, very petty, like you've been slighted somehow. You don't need to do that. Your message is good, just your presentation is poor.
Would like to know the evidence for this approach? McKenzie proven to be more effec comparing all options!
When i do mcenzie pres ups it make my sciatica even worse so im confused.Everybody with disc herniation cant bend forward.And i cant forward and backword .So its really misteriy for me why
Hi, I've been limping for 7 years due to a bad knee and now I'm limping for the sake of limping to oversimplify my story. I've been trying to explain to at least 10 medical professionals over the years how my now uneven hips make the one good leg shorter, which alone makes me limp, nobody could see that the hip of the affected leg is higher and turned in slightly. I can see it, I can feel it, I can measure it. Your video was my missing link. This one simple exercise you showed already put my foot of the shorter leg back on the ground and I've only tried it once. I put my limping leg behind and moved my (higher) hip around carefully. I have a herniated disc at L5/S1 because of the limp and because I was left alone to work on my hips and posture and in my dispair I did... I am aware that I shouldn't force your exercise on my body right now so I'll be very gentle or postpone it altogether. But it will make me come out of the vicious circle. Thank you!
Very helpful explanation of the overall mechanism - and focus on the causes.
I appreciate the thought process my friend! Just wanted to mention this is pretty standard how all therapists should work. Mckenzie method is great, but its about simply finding methods to ease ones pain. Extension is great, and often needed for many individuals (including myself) during flare ups, but not everyone. It simply depends on the symptoms and response. it is not a bandaid, it is allowing one to progress through an acute phase of injury to begin rebuilding and tolerating loads of daily life. After this is accomplished of course one might want to try to further understand the prevention part, and that is further allowing might be causing there issue. You found an aggravator, had an idea, tried the idea, provided relief, and leaned into it. She may have been stiff in her lumbar spine (this is an assumption), striding increases extension, increasing hip extension requires less lumbar extension, and by adding other areas of movement, required less movement in the area of soreness, allowing to walk with less symptoms. Totally fine approach.
I apologize in advance for the long winded reply. But i just couldn't let this sit here with all the comments that feel this is actually a good video. When it bashes a method so horrible and outdated that it is in 40 countries and growing!
1. MDT is actually in 40 countries and is by far the most well studied methodology out there.
2. It consists of classes A-E, taking a certification exam and advance studies via Diploma program over a year. I can only assume none, since you are a personal trainer, you don’t qualify to even start the training. So, how this qualifies you to bash something you cannot even speak intelligently of?
3. Example: Prone lying and prone extension which is you description of MDT is only a technique used. It is not what MDT is. MDT is a classification system proven effective in actual clinical studies. You didn’t touch on Things like directional preference and Centralization, again proven indicators of correct treatment.
4. I am a McKenzie Diplomat (as well as a practicing GOATA Coach) using the system since 1999 and I can assure you, your description of what you believe MDT is, is actually laughable and as well as possibly liable. So, I will pass this on to McKenzie USA as well as McKenzie Institute International and their legal teams to see if it warrants further discussion
5. When you are describing anything that starts from the lumbar spine and or hip and talking about symptoms referring/radiating into the leg and start tying to negate the lumbar spine as a culprit before clearing it FIRST, speaks of your lack of education/knowledge on the topic. Then you talk about a tight hip flexor as a culprit. Muscles are always the symptom, never the cause.
6. I am very happy you feel you have found a way to treat something that is actually pretty easy to treat via the methods of Robin McKenzie. Robin McKenzie was a genius, as he makes me look great in the clinic every day. Thanks to him, We market ourselves and excel at treating the worst cases and preventing surgery!
7. So you have your own solution, awesome, but sure why you feel you have to bash on a treatment method that you have not taken because you don’t have the credentials. You haven’t read any studies, or your would know of it’s effectiveness. You haven’t read any of his many books or you wouldn’t describe it as prone lying/press ups.
8. Maybe treat 30,000 patients plus, then come back with your findings and get laughed at and chastised as he was for 20 years until the world (MD’s who were threatened by him), realized he was actually right. Before you throw smoke about something you obviously have no clue about
9. By the way, the causes of Sciatica are also well documented. If you sit alot or bend alot you are at high risk for LBP. We all sit or bend 3-5000x/day. So, no amount of stretching or strengthening is going to fix that. No matter if you have a 6 pack or a 12 pack. As i have treated many elite CrossFitters who were shredded. Yet that did not prevent LBP. I have gotten folk > 50 lbs overweight pain free in 1 session, so obesity isn't the the reason. And the recurrence rate within a year is about 50-60%. However MDT training clinicians have reduced that to less than 10% recurrence rate w/ correct behavioral changes and maintenance program.
10. Side bar, Diploma Trained clinicians have been proven to be able to predict the outcomes of MRI's w/ 85-95% consistency and draw the fissure patten of a discogram with a Kappa value right at 1.0 which is phenomenal. So, I will say this again, Robin McKenzie was a genius.
I am more than happy to discuss this off line. Thanks
Guess he didn't bite lol
I really loved the part where you described the femur moving a bit slower than the pelvis. Picturing the sequencing really helps understand what's going on inside.
Thanks Katrina! Glad you found that helpful and appreciate the affirmation!
This does not properly described the McKenzie method and anyone who has taken a course or received a true McKenzie evaluation would understand that. I feel we should always be critical of our approach to helping patients but we should take time to understand the approach prior to dismissing it as outdated. This is a common misconception that the method relies only on extension.
Hello Apex, thanks for your comment. You are correct, my examples of the McKenzie exercises are not 100% complete. However, there is no video that I have found that shows such alternative exercises. Even the video on your channel about this same topic shows the same exercises that I described on my video. I really appreciate your efforts and desire to help educate the population. The mission of this channel is to provide further perspective and education on principle based movement methods. Those that have gravity, ground reaction forces, mass and momentum as it relates to upright function and its applicable application. I would really, turly, enjoy talking more with you about this topic and how we could best understand each others best practices and how we have found sustainable results with our patients and clients.
So glad someone is finally addressing this! I've been suffering from sciatica and most of the videos just talk about those other scapegoats he mentioned! I have disc degeneration in my lumbar spine so I get alot of muscle spasms in my back which affects my sciatic nerve.
Thank you! Glad you were able to get some value out of it! Sorry you're dealing with sciatica! We do virtual sessions, so if you're interested in having one of our coaches do an assessment for you, you can try to find a time that works for you here: www.gymnazo.com/consultation/
Hope you can find some relief soon!
The McKenzie Method saved my back.
Ok how my clients have presented in this way? I think this is another tool and not something that discounts McKenzie method.. my experience with a professional spine specialist using this method was very positive. So I am super confused why we delete positive tools but rather add to it. I think all these ideas are a progression to not a dismissal of low back derangement...
Hi, why can't it just be a nerve root issue that's being pinched in lumbar spine? How about if tightness soreness is steady regardless of movement? Mine is bilateral running classic l4-l5 pattern.
It could be a nerve root issue but I always ask, but why or how did that nerve get pinched? It also can be painful with static positioning but unless the body was hit by something the underlying issue is most likely movement or musculoskeletal in nature.
🤯 I’ve been dealing with sciatica pain for a year I’ve tried everything and only epidural shots gave more freedom of movement without the pain but I can still feel that something is not right. I’ve always tried to explain to the doctors that only certain movements triggered the pain just like the lady in the video. But it was like talking to a wall medication it’s all they know but this has given me hope and I’ve always knew that I wasn’t a very flexible person so that could have been one of the root causes specially working construction.
Glad we were able to provide some clarity and hope for you. Many medical professionals are not fully educated in the biomechanics of the body and how to effectively problem solve to get to the root causes of musculoskeletal dysfunctions like Sciatica. Epidural shots are only a temporary solution. The thing that is going to help you get rid of Sciatica long-term is understanding where the root cause is coming from within your chain of movement, which is different for everyone. If you're still experiencing Sciatica, we would be happy to help you get to the root of what's causing your pain. You can book a consultation with us by clicking the link below. Either way hope you feel better soon! www.gymnazo.com/consultation/
This exercises worked for me!
good job. thanks
Hope that O can find other method , I can not lay on my back , my shoulder also had pain .
Hello Concepcion Molina. Thanks for the comment. Please let me know why you let me know that you can't lay on your back. The video doesn't ask you to lay on your back. Or perhaps you're just sharing more information with me. My best to you!
I've had lower back pain and sciatica for nearly 3 years. McKenzie method doesn't work for me.
I can understand your situation. I hope this video provides a better opportunity for you
I literally found an channel explaining what I want tq so much sir❤️
Thanks for your support. We are focused on the explanation or why behind the issues. Most videos, we have found, just show what exercises to do but don't share why to do them.
I found this video quite disrespectful and obnoxious, but not helpful. I just want to know what to do.
Still work for herniated disc.
This can work for a herniated disc but like all techniques they are limited to the individual situation. Give the process in the video a try can only continue with pain free movement. This is very important. We never want to force a round peg to fit into a square hole.
@@Gymnazo agreed
Daaaamn why you gotta use Bob and brad in your thumbnail tho? 😑😑
Imagine thinking a legitimately herniated disc does not cause sciatica pain. Absurd.
Your input is quite misinformative here. I´ve used the mckenzie-method for over 25 years i physioterapy in a c u t e p h a s e s of backpain or sciatica when there is an indication that the disc is the cause of the problem to treat the pain, and it is quite effective. Once the pain eases, you can move in to the cause of the pain etc. For you to blacklist the method like this is not good. And what is your source of knowledge about the method here, other youtubers...?
I found to much chatter and not enough exercise all hyou did was talk about a patients problem would be better if he showed exact exercise with a second person you lost me 3mins in your voice is droning
Hey there Gayle! We are making a point to talk more about the education surrounding the movement issues vs just exercises. This is b/c exercises are a "dime a dozen" and may or may not work depending on the intention of the exercise. If you go to min. 14 in the video you'll see one of the most common exercises to this issue. Please check it out and follow along.
lot of gibberish. but where's the solution and exercises and movements?
Hey Vaskar! I'm happy that you are looking for solutions. The video you watched was about how to think about the problem and why the problem is there. But, if you go to min. 14 in the video you'll see one of the most common exercise to this issue. Please check it out and follow along. Also, we are literally making a video on more possible solutions, exercises and movements to be posted very, very soon! Hit the notification bell on our channel so you know when we share it.
I did that standing with the back foot turned in. It pulled a muscle that runs from my pubic bone to my hip. I didn’t even know it was there 🤣
That's a quote we get often, "I didn't know that (muscle) was there"! Great for you for trying that position or stretch out. Keep us posted as you progress!!!
@@Gymnazo I’ve been doing these for a week. And it’s helped SO MUCH, I’m 40 and was feeling like I was 140 🤣 I think I was scared to bend or stretch because it hurt. But dang , I was just STIFF. I honestly thought something was bad wrong
@@carris2scents57 Stoked to read of your results! Great job with your consistency! That is one of the most important factors of physical progress. If you are still finding limitations with your movement keep us posted.
I am pigeon toed so the results were not as significant for me...
You are the best. Thank you.
No you are :) Thank you for the comment.
You're taking too long. 7 mins in and haven't explained your idea at all.
Hey Johnny, appreciate the feedback in helping us to make our videos better. Will work on introducing my ideas earlier in videos moving forward. Thanks again! Cheers, MH
Omw I need this guy! If only he was in my country
Thanks for the comment. We CAN be in your country 😉 Well, at least virtually for the time being. If you want a virtual assessments or training let us know. You can email intro@gymnazo.com !
I think it's funny how non physiotherapist can treat a spinal disfunction, as the Mckenzie it's only for proper physiotherapists,
This video should be taken down and redone by the creator. He has no understanding of the McKenzie Method and is only creating more confusion for those in pain and potentially doing them a disservice in finding they assistance they need. The creator is not allowed to take McKenzie courses and therefore is not someone to listen to on the subject.
Hey Matt, thanks for sharing your opinion. Your are certainly entitled to it. I won't be taking down this video b/c it informs people of an alternative method that has had proven results where the McKenzie method did not achieve those same results with those clients. Though in the video, I do say the McKenzie method can work in certain circumstance with certain people. Confusion, in my opinion, is hiding or restricting information that could, and has gotten clients/ patients out of pain. So a quick side note. This is where I'm going to get on a soap box... This is not personal.... I guess the bigger question that comes up is, why would I not be "allowed" to take a McKenzie course. Is that b/c I'm not a Physical Therapist? Yep. So therefore, only certain people with $100,000 in student loans and 3 years of school (that the vast majority of that information is available in books and videos for free or in other places) should know how to perform basic exercises. That just doesn't seem right. TBH, all of the McKenzie exercises are simply that, exercises. These "supposedly off limits" drills are not hands on manipulation or surgery. They are just knowledge of biomechanics. Which I have and offer to those who are willing and open to listen and watch. If there are best practices that are available, in my opinion, they should be shared. I'm in the business to help people move better and be free of movement pain. I'm pretty sure Physical Therapists are too. Let's not let egos get in the way. Let's let the best science and best practices lead the way. My very best to you and your practice to help as many people as you can.
The longer I listen the worse it gets… Discrediting McKenzie (probably the best researched treatments for back pain) because you found better success foam rolling and stretching the hip flexor. Get a real job man. You’re a big part of the problem.
-regards.
@@zldemers Hey Zachary, thanks for sharing your opinion on treatment options. Conversations like this will only make our industry better. Well, your personal attacking approach won't. In any case, I'm not sure how we(I) are part of a problem by posting videos in which the education is helping people in situations where treatments like or exactly McKenzie method DID NOT work. The best part of this whole thing, let the best practitioner win. Who benefits, the client and patient. Our first goal is to do no harm or to help improve. That's what I'm doing by direct feedback or "research" from my community. So, I'll keep my real job doing helpful things for people in need. thank you!
Thanks
Great video brother. Some impatient people in the comments lol
Thanks Luke, appreciate it! We live in a culture where people want the fastest way not always the best way. 🤷
This is actually hilarious
You have no idea what the McKenzie method even is. You start by getting on your stomach. That’s not the McKenzie method. That’s a position used in the System.
The method is an assessment system to classify nonspecific low back pain, which therefore increases success of treatment. we don’t just throw random treatment as low back. Low Back Pain treatment has been proven to be direction specific.
And there are certain benchmarks you have to achieve. Often clinicians or “trainers” get clients better by simply getting people moving, which is awesome. But if you don’t achieve these certain benchmarks. Low back pain will always recur. 50 to 60% of the time within a year studies show. . You obviously have had no training in the method so you should probably walk this one back big guy.
For what it’s worth I use the MacKenzie method and have since 1999 and we have an established reputation as the spine clinic.
I am a physiotherapist with 30 years experience and postgraduate qualifications. Your video displays your ignorance of the subtleties of managing patients with back pain. You are stuck in a 30 year out-of-date biomedical model that actual health professionals have long since moved on from. I implore anyone who watches this to take their painful back to a real health professional who is trained to safely diagnose their symptoms.
Oooh smackdowns in the comments.
You read McGill to much, but you cant explain like him, you have ideea but not enough
Hey there. Thanks for taking the time to post. I know McGill teachings pretty well but it seems like you know his methods more. Please explain how this "method" is like McGill . IMO, it is quite far from it. My best to you!
you talk a lot, too much and the video loses its interest. if I want to talk, I watch podcasts with scientists. like McGill
SALES SALES SALES..
Hey Mike! Here is our follow up video if you want more application on the topic. ruclips.net/video/6rLd4rsGIOI/видео.html
As a credentialed McKenzie provider I can say this guy has absolutely no idea what he is talking about when it comes to McKenzie assessment and treatment. Click bait
Very long-winded
OMG are you kidding? Who can possibly help themselves unless they live next door and are millionaires.
Hey Lornan. No we are not kidding you. That's the great think about content that is free on the internet, at least the good content. Also, virtual treatments and training are now a commonplace. We actually offer it if you would be interested.