tbh the choices are a bit to vanilla imo and its legit the same map pool we laready had some months ago. But its not a bad one so overall decent maps ^^ As for the vote maps, especially TG. Cant ever expect anything but the most closed and standard options to be voted as well as Nomad stuff as 90% of the player base are 1000 elo players and they make up a lot of votes too.
@MoreTheViper what about more full open full land maps? like land madness or atacama? Cuz look at haboob's percentage, people really enjoy more aggressive maps
Or even once a month or so. Really, I think there should be better communication about tournament schedules, and have the tournament organizer help pick a weeks maps as kind of “advertisement”
absolutly! and alongside a player highlight i think it would expose new players to the pro champions im absoltly ignorant to the competetive side of most games i play, i only know the AoE2 players because of hidden cup, and now im subscribed to several of them :) @@josh_is_me
@@ChungabungaThing is, tournament maps have to be perfectly balanced. The only reason there’s RNG at all is so that scouting is required. On Ladder, there’s no money on the line, and you’re playing for fun. So getting forward golds or a weird chokepoint is fun for the same reason Random Civ giving you Vikings on 4 Lakes is fun. You have to adapt and compensate. And if you lose, it’s just GG, next. The RNG will give you 4 relics as Aztecs 2 games later, it evens out eventually. Tournament maps can’t risk that level of RNG, which is fine. But if we had tournament maps on the ladder for a month, people would HATE it for being boring.
This legit should be on the main channel, nice discussion on what makes great competitive maps. Plus: the classic TheViper pronunciation of Archie-pelago!
As a former PUBG player, it was always wild how well the devs listened to the community when I came to AOE2. PUBG just ignored all the players and did what they wanted. I remember in Hidden Cup, T90 made mention that on islands, the 5th relic should always be on the neutral island, and they literally fixed that within a week. Hera had a similar comment they took to heart on a different issue, not many games have devs like that.
We need a button next to these maps for a preview/sample of that map. Most of us have seen the map in tournament games but don't know which is which. You can go back and forth between Scenario editor but that's not a user friendly experience.
The fact that almost all your 1v1 picks are Red Bull Wololo Maps just tells me again that we really urgently need maps from current tournaments in the map pool. That is the one thing that could improve the map pool sustainably and in the long run! I really hope they heard that and are already working on this.
I saw the map pool voting options yesterday and thought, “Damn, one of the devs watched Viper’s video.” I was very happy with the migration choice especially. Seeing it in TTL currently has shown me how to play it and it feels very relevant. Thank you
It's a great map where different approaches can pay off and there's a lot of stuff you got to do. It feels so different from arabia. Like nomad but a different setting - wellp migration!
Awesome by Forgotten Empires! Seems like a great choice of maps and you put in some time and effort picking them. With the most popular maps part of the dev picks, seeing some other maps as voting options is nice and should please everyone! I personally love Lombardia for team games, but since it gets voted in now and then anyway, I'm all good with these options!
"Hey Guys, Spirit of the Hera here." oh ... I mean "Hey guys and welcome to another video." Yall borrowing openly from each other is the best. Keep up the civility and amazing humanity toward each other and you will all go far. This is why we community members keep coming back. This is what makes the Age2 community so great: the cooperation and love.
Awesome choices, looking forward to playing it! I really hope the devs improve the map voting system. They *really* need to hide the current vote percentage before you've cast a vote, it introduces a lot of bias. They also shouldnt present them in alphabetical order, or it's biased towards maps earlier in the alphabet - the order should be randomised for each player or each time you open it. Having a better way to preview the maps would also be great but may not change any outcomes.
Forgotten Empires has taken a commendable initiative, but is this a one-time effort, or do they have plans to enhance the map pool in the future? While it's great that they've asked for input this time around, it doesn't appear to bring a lasting change to how maps are selected for the long term.
Since the devs listen to your stuff, can you please ask them to randomize the order for voting? The later maps always get less votes because people don’t scroll on average. Instead of the default order for everyone
Seems like a lot of people just clicked first three options in the vote. Wonder how it woulda come out with northern isles, sieze the mountain and wade on top.
I think the main critic should be to Microsoft, it's clear the devs have a real challenge making this engine work and they do it really well. The game should be redone, it lacks many modern games features like in game friending, a real rematch option, a token monetization system and a better and modern engine. Microsoft hear me out, the game is good, you can make money here too.
problem with adding tournament maps is that usually the tournament maps are only optimized for just 1 way of generating (1v1 Random Map). While to actually add a map as a standard one in the game, it needs to fulfill a lot of criteria. That it generates properly in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 (Imagine what would happen if you play The Bull map with 8 players, most likely it will be completely broken), and also needs to not break in slightly different than standard settings (for example if u host it with 6 players on a 4player size it should still work properly if its a standard map) and that it works properly with all kinds of modes (Regicide, Empire Wars, King of the Hill...). Especially lately those 9vill maps are an issue as well, because the 9 vill part is included in the map script itself, and lots of clunky stuff is there like having a dead sheep spawn under the TC...
I think it'd be fine to have another new category of maps that are purely 1v1 for now and may ( or may not) slowly be optimized and adapted for team games and free for all in time. It feels like a waste to not have all these famous awesome tournament maps in the game. 1v1 has an entirely different map pool anyway.
I agree and I feel it wouldnt be hard at all for them to just add another category beside 'Standard' 'Custom' 'Special', the category can be just called 'Ranked 1v1'@@Naccarat
this is actually part of the reason why my interest in tournaments has gone so far down these past years. back on HD when i watched a ton of tournaments, i often hosted games with maps from the ongoing tournament, both 1v1 and team. nowadays, not only does the ranked system not have maps for active tournaments available, since theyre not even in the game, but they also need to be played on specific settings they were scripted for. many people dont even remember that in old team tournaments, choosing the homemap often also meant getting to choose to either play it as a 3v3 or 4v4. with these maps only working on specific settings, we arent able to see those kind of things anymore. i really wish future tournament maps can become less scripted, and can be functional on any settings.
@@Belisaurion yeah but u need to allow people to host the map in singleplayer/lobbies and have it work on most settings. Else there would be complaints.
Honestly, I think you could've taken it one step further: You could've put Arabia in the voting section and add another cool map as a dev choice. Most likely, Arabia would still go through (and if it didn't that would be interesting).
I really Like the idea that pro will pick the maps to vote. Next month should be Hera, then Daut, later maybe Jordan etc. Only one sad thing is that our dictator could choose only 4 maps for 1v1. Should be at least 6 just like in teamgame
People vote for the maps they know and where they have at least a general idea on what to do. Most people at the middle level have their game plans ready for Arabia or any land map with standard resources. Not so much for other maps, especially everything with water. As a quick fix I would publish a video like this here before a voting, explaining why the maps have been chosen and the general strategic ways you can approach it. The video should be linked directly in the game where you find the voting announcement. For people to actually play more different maps in the long run I think separate elos for the different maps or group of maps (e.g., standard, closed, water) would help a lot. On my level the build orders are set and I know 10s idle time matters. On water maps however I would need to figure out what to do with only a general idea. If people have comparable skills on Arabia and on water, they would absolutely clapp me on water, si i never play it. I want at least a chance of winning in my one or two games a week. Being matched with people who are similarly skilled on this specific map type would take away that fear.
would be really cool if this was a thing, that a different top ranking player gets to pick the map pool every now and then, alongside with a player highlight
This is important stuff, should be on the main channel! Thanks for the disclosure Viper. This is much better than the typical secretive ways Age2 decisions are made
Thanks for the video and the insights. I think it would be cool if you actually showed each map as you comment on them because we've got to the point where there's way too many maps and it's hard to recognize them all just by looking at the icon.
I wouldn't call northern isles a water map at all, its more of a hybrid map. Having a free transport in dark age means landings are always easier and better to attempt than not, so water engagements are often irrelevant
I guess the issue with tourney maps is legal in nature? Perhaps map-makers need to specifically put the maps into the public domain, or publish under an MIT license or something. (if they wanted to allow the devs to use them)
I don’t know if I like your choices because I don’t know the maps like you do. But, I do like and trust your process and the outcome you want (what’s good for the game). Thx. Glad you offered and they accepted.
Before I watch the video: What crazy maps will he choose? 1:20 Do all maps have to be competitive, though? I think one crazy map like Byzantium would be cool:) 2:35 I dont fully agree. Yes, there should be one closed map. But Arena, Fortress and hideout at the same time is too much, for example. So when Arena has to be in it, there should be only fortress or hideout in addition to the map pool(if that is even necessary). 14:00 I mean the map is called team islands. If you start in a 2vs2 with an opponent on your Island then this is an entirely different map and does not feel like a team game anymore(on lower elos, there will just be 1vs1;1vs1 with very limited interaction. 17:45 the pathfinding got actually worse in the last updates... In conclusion: I think that your options were so limited that you basically choosed the same maps as the devs would do for 1vs1. I see a little bit more variation in team maps. But at the end, the people vote what they are used to play and I believe that only tournament maps will be popular enough to change some patterns.
I agree that there is a tendency to be too many closed maps. People who vote for one closed map probably vote for all the closed maps in the pool. So when you start with Black Forest and Arena already in the pool, adding several closed maps to be voted on is a bit meh since they tend to win out. That leads to rotations like the one we had a while back where the only two non-closed maps were Arabia and Nomad.
I think now we know why the mappool is the way it is. They have the constraint of only maps in the game. Now the question is: why can't they add new maps, like tournament maps into the game? I guess even as a new cheap DLC
I think that the options are greats, it´s a good pool map overall. Even though I don´t agree at all with coastal. It´s seems to have a too unfair generation, with inconscistent fish and land to wall between the players, sometimes one have a shitty fish and the opponent have a huge amount. Same case with walls, you could be fully closed with 2 houses and the opponent have to invest a lot more
hey Viper, what do you think about the map selection of the Clash of Clans tournament? (and the decision to make houses more expensive and hold more pop) I think they did a great job "rewarding" a more aggresive playstyle but I'd like to hear a more informed opinion.
Would be a very bad idea to split a playerbase. New civilizations don't block people from playing together but if you need to buy a map then some people won't have it and not enough will play
"I still feel like I ended up on a fairly balanced map pool" I mean there zero semi closed or closed maps... The open maps seem more interesting but this the lease diverse map pool I think I've seem
was so excited to hear viper was picking map pool !! but what's the point in viper picking if it still went down to a vote and we getting same old maps moras , wade , size the mountain never seen these maps all not getting votes would be so much better if we just get all these maps but more bans (and a warning if you ban loads that you may have a longer wait time or be matched out of normal elo range) that said haboob enclosed and kawasan all good maps and looking forward to playing them :) just wish we got some of the others too.
At 11:20, TheViper mentioned maybe “technicians cup”, was it? I was curious to try and find games from it but couldn’t find a suitable tournament name that fit what I thought he said. Could someone please help?
Really great to see you having an impact and Devs listening. Love the variety of choice this time round. Now hopefully they can also adjust the current vote % hidden, so not to influence people who haven't yet voted.
Awesome! I was pleasently surprised at the map pool this time around. Good choices! I just wish you could "hard ban" maps. Wouldnt mind a 5min queue once in a while to get only the maps that i want to play
I would choose first 2 maps of the vote pool and put them as dev picks instead of mega random and migration. For example dev picks: Arabia, Arena + Enclosed + Haboob.
I really miss Socotra tbh. And would have loved to have seen Land Madness in the game. I think it's so cool, at least when I watch it played in tournaments. Love your content vipy ❤
Megarandom can also become a closed map, and some of the other maps can be fairly easily walled and turned into more closed maps, so I think it would be fairly balanced still.
I notice a severe lack of Black forest in the 1v1 pool! Jokes aside i wish BF was in the pool every now and then and that the big aoe2 influensers (pros and big casters) wouldn't cry thier hearts out the very few times it gets in, we have bans after all.. I dont have the numbers to back it up but I think bf would get picked more then for example northern isles, bog Island, that we see in the pool freqently. One of the most popular TG maps and im sure many with me enjoy it as a 1v1 map aswell
Yeah forgotton Empires is a cool set of people. Just doing this proves that. I gave them a long feedback on the recent survey too trying to be positive yet also commenting on shortcomings just because I know how much they also love this game. Personally I would have liked some real world maps, at least for team games, but I understand that they probably would take some rebalancing. Still a map like Italy could be quite fun depending on player spawns.
You could have uno reverse carded them. If Arena ect are so popular you could have dev picked more obscure maps you wanted, then put the 'popular' maps in the vote. They would have won and you would have had unlimited power!
Nice of them to do this, however as you say as long as people don't get more maps and bans it doesnt do much. I banned team islands today and even had to play that. What is the point of banning then?
I dont like having the same map multiple times and you pretty much chose the same maps for 1v1 and Team Games. also Team Games got Coastel and Nomad which is the same map with a diffrent start which often plays out with similar dynamics in the lategame.even though on principle I agree on your map choices.
That wont work for anything while people easily can pick op civs because balance is done thinking in Arabia, people will play 1 week the new pool and Arabia will be the main again.
You had the chance to grant us Socotra, and you forsook us. How can I get my dark age vil fighting fix now? I would have loved to see a real world map in the mix though. Amazon, Bohemia, and France are pretty fun to play on.
IMO: Kawasan is potentially great but balancing eco in dark age/early feudal seems very hard at lower elos. Team Moats is a miss. It was in map pool sometime ago and I played ~10TGs on this map. It is very snowbally - whoever wins middle area in feudal/early castle should win the game quite easily. Saying that, this is the best map/vote pool ever. I don't care which maps win cause map pool will be great either way. Great job!
So this is my experience with team games: I am not a pro player, and my friends don't play this game, so I have to play with randoms. Half the time they don't want to or just can't communicate with me. Like I only speak English and they only speak Spanish. It is impressive what you can communicate with just the in game shoutouts and flairs, but it is still a limitation. So I go into team games looking for less serious matches and maps that can cut you a lot of slack if your team isn't coordinated. On say Arabia, I feel like you always need to go feudal archers and scouts and stick together at all times, and that's harder to maintain if you're not like on a Discord call with your teammate. And of course if your random teammate is a guy stoned out of his mind trying to go pocket FC goths and he doesn't tell you this, you're probably screwed. Whereas on Arena or Nomad, your random teammate from Brazil can go boom in the corner or go FC conqs and it can still probably work out. This is also I think why we see some maps in the map pool over and over again. It's not just that the person who picked them knows what to do, it's that they trust the other people to have *some* idea of what they should be doing.
I’m a bit disappointed to hear that Nomad has moved up to permanent team game slot. I enjoy the map, but when the map pool structure was introduced only Arabia, Arena, and BF were to be permanent rotation to rotation. I truly believe the dev picks should be used to “spice up” the map pool and let the community picks be used for the community favorites.
I love morass. Offers more for less played civs like Bulgarians which I think is needed. Still think that it's a band aid with not having more maps, but I know you were limited.
What do you think of my choices?
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Snake pit in map pool please
tbh the choices are a bit to vanilla imo and its legit the same map pool we laready had some months ago.
But its not a bad one so overall decent maps ^^
As for the vote maps, especially TG. Cant ever expect anything but the most closed and standard options to be voted as well as Nomad stuff as 90% of the player base are 1000 elo players and they make up a lot of votes too.
fuck yeah. Viper keeping it real. I trust his judgement and decision, devs should listen to him more, including on aspects other than map selection.
Viper can you do a video on how to look at map generations quickly? (or maybe I should just google it)
@MoreTheViper what about more full open full land maps? like land madness or atacama? Cuz look at haboob's percentage, people really enjoy more aggressive maps
Could be fun if the devs ask a different pro-player or caster to draft the map pool each time.
Or even once a month or so. Really, I think there should be better communication about tournament schedules, and have the tournament organizer help pick a weeks maps as kind of “advertisement”
@@josh_is_me Ikr!!! That's what i always thought too! Tournament maps are way better than what you usually get on the ladder.
Better make that every other month, the pros represent a loud minority
absolutly! and alongside a player highlight i think it would expose new players to the pro champions
im absoltly ignorant to the competetive side of most games i play, i only know the AoE2 players because of hidden cup, and now im subscribed to several of them :) @@josh_is_me
@@ChungabungaThing is, tournament maps have to be perfectly balanced. The only reason there’s RNG at all is so that scouting is required. On Ladder, there’s no money on the line, and you’re playing for fun. So getting forward golds or a weird chokepoint is fun for the same reason Random Civ giving you Vikings on 4 Lakes is fun. You have to adapt and compensate. And if you lose, it’s just GG, next. The RNG will give you 4 relics as Aztecs 2 games later, it evens out eventually. Tournament maps can’t risk that level of RNG, which is fine. But if we had tournament maps on the ladder for a month, people would HATE it for being boring.
This legit should be on the main channel, nice discussion on what makes great competitive maps. Plus: the classic TheViper pronunciation of Archie-pelago!
Agreed
I had to go to Google to check the pronunciation of archipelago 😂 I think we know what Viper is referring to, so it's fine 😊
As a former PUBG player, it was always wild how well the devs listened to the community when I came to AOE2. PUBG just ignored all the players and did what they wanted. I remember in Hidden Cup, T90 made mention that on islands, the 5th relic should always be on the neutral island, and they literally fixed that within a week. Hera had a similar comment they took to heart on a different issue, not many games have devs like that.
Of course T90 would want the relic to be on the neutral island….
:-)
Just like his archery ranges right 😂
We need a button next to these maps for a preview/sample of that map. Most of us have seen the map in tournament games but don't know which is which.
You can go back and forth between Scenario editor but that's not a user friendly experience.
Yes, please!
Definitely agree, I did not know that Northern Isles has a transport ship, which would make it much more fun for me to play
The fact that almost all your 1v1 picks are Red Bull Wololo Maps just tells me again that we really urgently need maps from current tournaments in the map pool. That is the one thing that could improve the map pool sustainably and in the long run! I really hope they heard that and are already working on this.
I saw the map pool voting options yesterday and thought, “Damn, one of the devs watched Viper’s video.” I was very happy with the migration choice especially. Seeing it in TTL currently has shown me how to play it and it feels very relevant. Thank you
I've loved Migration for years, I used to do 1v1 to 4v4 Migration lobbys back on hd where Lobby browser games could be ranked
It's a great map where different approaches can pay off and there's a lot of stuff you got to do. It feels so different from arabia. Like nomad but a different setting - wellp migration!
Awesome by Forgotten Empires!
Seems like a great choice of maps and you put in some time and effort picking them. With the most popular maps part of the dev picks, seeing some other maps as voting options is nice and should please everyone! I personally love Lombardia for team games, but since it gets voted in now and then anyway, I'm all good with these options!
Now we know who we have to blame if we don't like the map pool! Great move from the Devs 😂
I can’t wait to rewatch this entire video on Hera’s channel
O.o
Oof. Harsh man
🤣🤣🤣
"Hey Guys, Spirit of the Hera here." oh ... I mean "Hey guys and welcome to another video."
Yall borrowing openly from each other is the best. Keep up the civility and amazing humanity toward each other and you will all go far. This is why we community members keep coming back. This is what makes the Age2 community so great: the cooperation and love.
Can't wait for MBL's map pool choices
Awesome choices, looking forward to playing it!
I really hope the devs improve the map voting system. They *really* need to hide the current vote percentage before you've cast a vote, it introduces a lot of bias. They also shouldnt present them in alphabetical order, or it's biased towards maps earlier in the alphabet - the order should be randomised for each player or each time you open it. Having a better way to preview the maps would also be great but may not change any outcomes.
Forgotten Empires has taken a commendable initiative, but is this a one-time effort, or do they have plans to enhance the map pool in the future? While it's great that they've asked for input this time around, it doesn't appear to bring a lasting change to how maps are selected for the long term.
Since the devs listen to your stuff, can you please ask them to randomize the order for voting? The later maps always get less votes because people don’t scroll on average. Instead of the default order for everyone
Nice man choose the map pool and if u wanna choose my civs in tournaments thats cool too
Sounds salty?
Seems like a lot of people just clicked first three options in the vote. Wonder how it woulda come out with northern isles, sieze the mountain and wade on top.
Loved these selections. I hope they go with them, I wanna break away from meta civs and see some wild play
I think the main critic should be to Microsoft, it's clear the devs have a real challenge making this engine work and they do it really well.
The game should be redone, it lacks many modern games features like in game friending, a real rematch option, a token monetization system and a better and modern engine.
Microsoft hear me out, the game is good, you can make money here too.
Great choices! Best map pool i have seen in ages.
Dude no way! I can't believe these mad lads actually did it! I was on an Aoe2 hiatus but looks like I'm back, baby!
Vote Seize The Mountain, gents!
Huge shoutout to devs really for this
Yeah pretty damn awesome. Dont see that kind of thing much
That's why I was happy about the map pool this time 🤣
I felt so, too. Looking at the map pool, I thought: "Wow, lots of interesting options this time." :D
@@mrclock4861 after watching TCI I wanted to try some of those maps and here they are !
No way! That's so cool by the devs. Exciting stuff, I might play a few ranked matches as a result
problem with adding tournament maps is that usually the tournament maps are only optimized for just 1 way of generating (1v1 Random Map). While to actually add a map as a standard one in the game, it needs to fulfill a lot of criteria. That it generates properly in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 (Imagine what would happen if you play The Bull map with 8 players, most likely it will be completely broken), and also needs to not break in slightly different than standard settings (for example if u host it with 6 players on a 4player size it should still work properly if its a standard map) and that it works properly with all kinds of modes (Regicide, Empire Wars, King of the Hill...).
Especially lately those 9vill maps are an issue as well, because the 9 vill part is included in the map script itself, and lots of clunky stuff is there like having a dead sheep spawn under the TC...
anyway both ladders have different maps already, you don't necessarily have to play "The Bull" in Team Games
I think it'd be fine to have another new category of maps that are purely 1v1 for now and may ( or may not) slowly be optimized and adapted for team games and free for all in time. It feels like a waste to not have all these famous awesome tournament maps in the game. 1v1 has an entirely different map pool anyway.
I agree and I feel it wouldnt be hard at all for them to just add another category beside 'Standard' 'Custom' 'Special', the category can be just called 'Ranked 1v1'@@Naccarat
this is actually part of the reason why my interest in tournaments has gone so far down these past years. back on HD when i watched a ton of tournaments, i often hosted games with maps from the ongoing tournament, both 1v1 and team. nowadays, not only does the ranked system not have maps for active tournaments available, since theyre not even in the game, but they also need to be played on specific settings they were scripted for. many people dont even remember that in old team tournaments, choosing the homemap often also meant getting to choose to either play it as a 3v3 or 4v4. with these maps only working on specific settings, we arent able to see those kind of things anymore. i really wish future tournament maps can become less scripted, and can be functional on any settings.
@@Belisaurion yeah but u need to allow people to host the map in singleplayer/lobbies and have it work on most settings. Else there would be complaints.
Honestly, I think you could've taken it one step further: You could've put Arabia in the voting section and add another cool map as a dev choice. Most likely, Arabia would still go through (and if it didn't that would be interesting).
lol
you suppose to reduce "community votes to 2 choices if they want arabia" ?
wont bad mouth but it's a bad move.
I really Like the idea that pro will pick the maps to vote. Next month should be Hera, then Daut, later maybe Jordan etc.
Only one sad thing is that our dictator could choose only 4 maps for 1v1. Should be at least 6 just like in teamgame
People vote for the maps they know and where they have at least a general idea on what to do. Most people at the middle level have their game plans ready for Arabia or any land map with standard resources. Not so much for other maps, especially everything with water.
As a quick fix I would publish a video like this here before a voting, explaining why the maps have been chosen and the general strategic ways you can approach it. The video should be linked directly in the game where you find the voting announcement.
For people to actually play more different maps in the long run I think separate elos for the different maps or group of maps (e.g., standard, closed, water) would help a lot. On my level the build orders are set and I know 10s idle time matters. On water maps however I would need to figure out what to do with only a general idea. If people have comparable skills on Arabia and on water, they would absolutely clapp me on water, si i never play it. I want at least a chance of winning in my one or two games a week. Being matched with people who are similarly skilled on this specific map type would take away that fear.
would be really cool if this was a thing, that a different top ranking player gets to pick the map pool every now and then, alongside with a player highlight
This is important stuff, should be on the main channel! Thanks for the disclosure Viper.
This is much better than the typical secretive ways Age2 decisions are made
My dictator 🫡
*Mein Keiser 🫡🫡🫡
@@Victor-gh3urKAISER!
Thanks for the video and the insights. I think it would be cool if you actually showed each map as you comment on them because we've got to the point where there's way too many maps and it's hard to recognize them all just by looking at the icon.
It's probably the first time I had a hard time choosing only 3 maps. Every time I voted before I had to choose the 3 I didn't dislike so much.
Very happy you chose migration.
Hybrid maps are my favorite in the game because they utilize all aspects of the game.
Hi Viper - loved the map pool in general. My only slight complaint is that the map pool for 1v1 and TG are very very similar.
I wouldn't call northern isles a water map at all, its more of a hybrid map. Having a free transport in dark age means landings are always easier and better to attempt than not, so water engagements are often irrelevant
Im so glad he chose migration. One of my favourite maps for conplexity back in early AOE2 days of 20+ years ago.
Friends and I played team moats and honestly this was probably one of our favourite maps we played 3v3 wise.
I guess the issue with tourney maps is legal in nature? Perhaps map-makers need to specifically put the maps into the public domain, or publish under an MIT license or something. (if they wanted to allow the devs to use them)
I don’t know if I like your choices because I don’t know the maps like you do. But, I do like and trust your process and the outcome you want (what’s good for the game). Thx. Glad you offered and they accepted.
Only one nomadic map in the pool is sadge, also no amazone tunnel or Michi, which are popular
Before I watch the video:
What crazy maps will he choose?
1:20 Do all maps have to be competitive, though? I think one crazy map like Byzantium would be cool:)
2:35 I dont fully agree. Yes, there should be one closed map. But Arena, Fortress and hideout at the same time is too much, for example. So when Arena has to be in it, there should be only fortress or hideout in addition to the map pool(if that is even necessary).
14:00 I mean the map is called team islands. If you start in a 2vs2 with an opponent on your Island then this is an entirely different map and does not feel like a team game anymore(on lower elos, there will just be 1vs1;1vs1 with very limited interaction.
17:45 the pathfinding got actually worse in the last updates...
In conclusion:
I think that your options were so limited that you basically choosed the same maps as the devs would do for 1vs1.
I see a little bit more variation in team maps.
But at the end, the people vote what they are used to play
and I believe that only tournament maps will be popular enough to change some patterns.
I agree that there is a tendency to be too many closed maps. People who vote for one closed map probably vote for all the closed maps in the pool. So when you start with Black Forest and Arena already in the pool, adding several closed maps to be voted on is a bit meh since they tend to win out. That leads to rotations like the one we had a while back where the only two non-closed maps were Arabia and Nomad.
I think now we know why the mappool is the way it is. They have the constraint of only maps in the game. Now the question is: why can't they add new maps, like tournament maps into the game? I guess even as a new cheap DLC
I think that the options are greats, it´s a good pool map overall. Even though I don´t agree at all with coastal. It´s seems to have a too unfair generation, with inconscistent fish and land to wall between the players, sometimes one have a shitty fish and the opponent have a huge amount. Same case with walls, you could be fully closed with 2 houses and the opponent have to invest a lot more
Migration with a shallows bridge to connect would be nice for a standard.
using tournament maps in the map is the most critical thing that needs to be improved for ranked ladder to stay relevant/interesting
So the question is, would it be complicated to get tournament maps incorporated into the standard game map pool?
This is great. So much more competetive and versible than the normal maps. I hope it becomes reacquiring!
hey Viper, what do you think about the map selection of the Clash of Clans tournament? (and the decision to make houses more expensive and hold more pop)
I think they did a great job "rewarding" a more aggresive playstyle but I'd like to hear a more informed opinion.
This discussion actually means the game has a space for a DLC focusing on Maps and Scenarios, really...
Would be a very bad idea to split a playerbase. New civilizations don't block people from playing together but if you need to buy a map then some people won't have it and not enough will play
I wish they let you do Cup, I’ve wanted to play that on the ladder since I watched my first tourney, HC3
"I still feel like I ended up on a fairly balanced map pool" I mean there zero semi closed or closed maps... The open maps seem more interesting but this the lease diverse map pool I think I've seem
tbh, when i voted yesterday, unaware of your influence, i was thinking: oh finally good choices and picks.
i feel even if you add experimental options people will still go for comfort picks and it will most oftent be the ones people vote.
was so excited to hear viper was picking map pool !!
but what's the point in viper picking if it still went down to a vote
and we getting same old maps
moras , wade , size the mountain never seen these maps all not getting votes
would be so much better if we just get all these maps but more bans (and a warning if you ban loads that you may have a longer wait time or be matched out of normal elo range)
that said haboob enclosed and kawasan all good maps and looking forward to playing them :) just wish we got some of the others too.
At 11:20, TheViper mentioned maybe “technicians cup”, was it?
I was curious to try and find games from it but couldn’t find a suitable tournament name that fit what I thought he said.
Could someone please help?
Subtitles are accurate for that part
Now to take away the percentages of votes on each map to curb any biases before voting! Just show the percentages after the voting has closed!
one crazy world map should be nice to have... but I guess they don't scale very well of not played 4v4
LAND NOMAD MAAAN, be a real Land Nomad OG, don't forget your roots!
I'm sad that Seize The Mountain didn't make it, never played that one
I hope we get enemy islands in a future map pool, sounds chaotic, wild and way beyond my skill level, lets do it! 😂
I saw the options and immediately thought: 'they have been watching TheViper'. Awesome options!
Really great to see you having an impact and Devs listening. Love the variety of choice this time round.
Now hopefully they can also adjust the current vote % hidden, so not to influence people who haven't yet voted.
I agree, hiding the percentages would definitely be beneficial!
This is really cool to see!
Awesome! I was pleasently surprised at the map pool this time around. Good choices! I just wish you could "hard ban" maps. Wouldnt mind a 5min queue once in a while to get only the maps that i want to play
I would choose first 2 maps of the vote pool and put them as dev picks instead of mega random and migration. For example dev picks: Arabia, Arena + Enclosed + Haboob.
I really miss Socotra tbh. And would have loved to have seen Land Madness in the game. I think it's so cool, at least when I watch it played in tournaments.
Love your content vipy ❤
so now arena is the only closed map in the entire map pool
Megarandom can also become a closed map, and some of the other maps can be fairly easily walled and turned into more closed maps, so I think it would be fairly balanced still.
I notice a severe lack of Black forest in the 1v1 pool!
Jokes aside i wish BF was in the pool every now and then and that the big aoe2 influensers (pros and big casters) wouldn't cry thier hearts out the very few times it gets in, we have bans after all..
I dont have the numbers to back it up but I think bf would get picked more then for example northern isles, bog Island, that we see in the pool freqently.
One of the most popular TG maps and im sure many with me enjoy it as a 1v1 map aswell
Front line for teamgames. From the special menu
the problem is that the "devs" want maps from the offical aoe map pool. the rly great maps are all not in that collection
“Only maps that exist in the actual game.” The devs really just didn’t want to let you bring in Houseboat, huh?
Yeah forgotton Empires is a cool set of people. Just doing this proves that. I gave them a long feedback on the recent survey too trying to be positive yet also commenting on shortcomings just because I know how much they also love this game.
Personally I would have liked some real world maps, at least for team games, but I understand that they probably would take some rebalancing. Still a map like Italy could be quite fun depending on player spawns.
Think at low elo 1v1 black forest is very much needed for relaxed gaming
Great vid. Looking forward to the Hera reaction video as well
Adding earth as a votable option for team games would have been cool. Fun map but not something I'd force into the map pool 11
You could have uno reverse carded them.
If Arena ect are so popular you could have dev picked more obscure maps you wanted, then put the 'popular' maps in the vote. They would have won and you would have had unlimited power!
Nice of them to do this, however as you say as long as people don't get more maps and bans it doesnt do much. I banned team islands today and even had to play that. What is the point of banning then?
Love those thoughts, maybe it could have been better to swap Kawasan with Migration for 1v1 but that's about it i feel
i just generated a couple kawasan maps and looks really fun
I dont like having the same map multiple times and you pretty much chose the same maps for 1v1 and Team Games. also Team Games got Coastel and Nomad which is the same map with a diffrent start which often plays out with similar dynamics in the lategame.even though on principle I agree on your map choices.
That wont work for anything while people easily can pick op civs because balance is done thinking in Arabia, people will play 1 week the new pool and Arabia will be the main again.
I really liked this map pool poll before I knew it was viper. They should ask a well known community member each time
When i chose yesterday i immediately felt like the choices were unusual. :)
You had the chance to grant us Socotra, and you forsook us. How can I get my dark age vil fighting fix now?
I would have loved to see a real world map in the mix though. Amazon, Bohemia, and France are pretty fun to play on.
IMO:
Kawasan is potentially great but balancing eco in dark age/early feudal seems very hard at lower elos.
Team Moats is a miss. It was in map pool sometime ago and I played ~10TGs on this map. It is very snowbally - whoever wins middle area in feudal/early castle should win the game quite easily.
Saying that, this is the best map/vote pool ever. I don't care which maps win cause map pool will be great either way. Great job!
You are the best, thank you for kawasan and no blocking nomad ;)
So this is my experience with team games: I am not a pro player, and my friends don't play this game, so I have to play with randoms. Half the time they don't want to or just can't communicate with me. Like I only speak English and they only speak Spanish. It is impressive what you can communicate with just the in game shoutouts and flairs, but it is still a limitation. So I go into team games looking for less serious matches and maps that can cut you a lot of slack if your team isn't coordinated. On say Arabia, I feel like you always need to go feudal archers and scouts and stick together at all times, and that's harder to maintain if you're not like on a Discord call with your teammate. And of course if your random teammate is a guy stoned out of his mind trying to go pocket FC goths and he doesn't tell you this, you're probably screwed. Whereas on Arena or Nomad, your random teammate from Brazil can go boom in the corner or go FC conqs and it can still probably work out. This is also I think why we see some maps in the map pool over and over again. It's not just that the person who picked them knows what to do, it's that they trust the other people to have *some* idea of what they should be doing.
I’m a bit disappointed to hear that Nomad has moved up to permanent team game slot. I enjoy the map, but when the map pool structure was introduced only Arabia, Arena, and BF were to be permanent rotation to rotation. I truly believe the dev picks should be used to “spice up” the map pool and let the community picks be used for the community favorites.
I love the 1v1 maps. Buy team game maps should have 1 or 2 more closed maps
It would be nice to see the text Dev Picks replaced by The Viper's Pick
I love morass. Offers more for less played civs like Bulgarians which I think is needed.
Still think that it's a band aid with not having more maps, but I know you were limited.
Sooo. @MoreTheViper ... Did you get insights about the numbers? What is popular? How many (percent of people) play which map etc?
I hope to became such a good artist that Adobe calls me to select the default photoshop brushes.
How awesome that they reached out to you! 🎉
Well done! Still played it a bit “safe”, but there is a reason the devs went with only your maps.
I love that they asked you!
I wanna see / play rage forest.. and cup also seemed a lot of fun in tournaments
Better teamgame selection: Nomad, African Clearing, Nile Delta, Land Nomad, Steppe, and whatever the mountain one is called again.
When Nomad ladder?
Good work man. And good work to Forgotten Empires. I would play this map pool for months happily. They should do this again.
Hm okay but wait. WHY can't we have tournament maps?? I WANT PANTS. Seriously tho why