Do you guys like my map pool? | AoE2 Reddit/Forum Browsing
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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TheViper | Professional Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition Player for GamerLegion | Sponsored by Re-Bo
we need more tournament maps in the ladder ranked mappool
but it's a lot of work to equalize them I guess
@@bananan7they are equal already otherwise you dont see 'em in tourneys
I would expect it is the lawyers that don't want them using maps made by others.
Yes!
I believe DauT nailed it, the players are big part of the problem as well, usually the same sort of maps are voted and most of the time people just want to play arabia or arena. He had to ban arabia to get the other maps more frequently, so more map choices with more bans and more favorites as well could do the trick
AoE2 players (and many gamers in general) are a very unimaginative group. There are many, many, many players who have learned build orders down to the second but don't actually understand the game. As someone who is 1) not good and 2) not good at build orders, it's quite shocking how often I'll fall behind early against someone with early aggression and up-times perfect to the second, but if I survive the initial push they fall to pieces after 20 minutes because they don't have a clue what they're actually doing.
It's the same mindset as Dust2 players on CS etc - they're just playing the game on autopilot. They've used their 21-pop scouts opening 400 times on Arabia before and they'd rather keep doing it than have to think.
I think we should have infinite bans on the maps which never leave the map pool. i.e. You don't have to waste any of your bans on those maps.
I believe implementing hidden voting should be the first priority as it is relatively straightforward to set up. After that, they can work on adding more maps and bans, though they'll need to carefully manage these changes to avoid affecting matchmaking.
Completely agree with you and Viper!
100% I was just thinking Viper deserves props for making the best of a limited selection (with custom/tourney maps unavailable). The map system could still use something of a general overhaul, but for what you had to work with this was a definite upgrade compared to the usual rotation of selections.
3:15 - They have added Four Lakes (aka Cross) and Golden Swamp maps tho, they were both tournament maps as far as I know:
March 30, 2020, Update 36202 notes: "Two new maps inspired by the community - Four Lakes and Golden Swamp - are now available in the Random Map selection screen by default."
Pretty sure that shows that they will not add community maps as instead of adding the community maps, they created their own very similar maps.
So they might create the map "Pants" but they won't add "Bay"
Also considering how long it has been since they did that, I am guessing their lawyers changed their mind and suggested not doing so any more.
Aoe2 already has a lot of maps. Make them more fun to play on. Less dead space, more resource locations, bring back cliffs, more terrain types, more impactful elevation. Valley is a great map because it changes up the usual flow of switching to farms for food, there are actually enough deer to extend into feudal or even castle. Graveyards is a great map because it actually has enough relics to be a win condition (if you get like 10-12 your eco is kinda set) but it still takes time with plenty of counterplay. The old arabia with its crazy hills spawns made for very tactical fights where every step up or down a hill mattered. Kawasan is great like Valley but with the additional option of going water. Imo hybrid maps tend to be the most consistantly enough exciting simply because there's a lot to do. If Starcraft can have amazing games on maps that are static and relatively artifical, i think Aoe2 could learn a few things.
Agreed on removing vote percentages. I often go to vote and realise that the winners have basically been decided and my votes won’t change anything so I don’t bother. That’s be a great change - along with more maps+bans.
Thanks for helping out here to the Devs for working with a cherished player and for Viper to post a constructive critical video about the map pool and working on the issue. Cheers all around!
1:37 that sentence has a smidgen of truth to it.
As far as I'm aware - no other RTS _(that I know of)_ resembles attrition warfare as much as AoE2, and I have played a few.
It takes a special kind of people to enjoy it honestly is my belief 😛
You need to get out more.
This sounds true. At my low tier, I feel like at least half my wins are merely not quitting as soon as the first major enemy attack comes in. I do my best to defend and make the tech changes to counter and then as soon as I hold them off or take any counter-attack or advantage like aging up my opponent quits.
I'll be 30 vills down but one raid and they tap out. Or two TC's behind and worse map control but I hit imp and they don't wait to see if I have the resources to actually turn it into a win.
It's a lot of work to make a map gen ladder ready so I can see why the devs can't just throw things in the pool, unlike a tournament you can't reset/filter super unfair generations.
Perhaps this means we need a strong beta testing process e.g. a beta ladder that pops up for a week mid-way through a rotation. Even if the balance is poor, there would be a lot of fun to be had defining the meta for novel maps and eventually the core map pool would receive the refined versions.
TheViper: the map pool is redundant and polarizing. Also TheViper: picks a redundant and polarizing map pool.
I think having some relaxed jazz in the background was a good choice for this video :)
the map pool felt like every one before. the standard 50 maps are just all very much the same in different layouts. watching tournaments im always looking at the maps and think ; dam it this should be in the ladder games.
Haboob is some of the most fun I've had playing aoe. Enclosed is great too. Would love custom maps. Allowing custom maps is the next step.
If AOE2 ever dies, I want Microsoft to hire Viper as their community manager for the next Age game and do videos like this on a regular basis.
strongly agree with ur final points and tym for making the devs aware of some sort of issue with the map-pool in our stead :)
I am going to keep saying it.
We should have the devs add a numbering system to the mappool in the ranked que. Where you can number your maps from favorite to least favorite. Then add as many maps as they like. You will be able to be matched up much better.
If me and my opponent don't favorite the same map, the system will choose what map we play of all the unbanned maps, while we both might prefer another map. With a numbering system this would not happen. The system would know what map me and my opponent would have ranked the highest.
Probably too complicated to integrate for the devs though.
On my quicksilver side, I've been seriously thinking about how the devs work on changes they think will be better for us players, but don't actually think in the player. The PUPs were a nice adittion, sure; but I mean, the development should be a bit more democratic while also keeping in mind they need to make it comercialized. It's a careful balance, but it sometimes seems they forget the people they're selling the game to. Make it attractive, it doesn't make me excited to repeatedly [scroll down, click the "show more games" button] in order to check all the games being hosted.
On my aware side, I couldn't stop thinking that you need to verify the mail account you're using for Reddit. You might lose access to TheViperAOC otherwise.
Anyways, thanks for having us in mind when choosing maps. GJ!
+1 3:14 , YES! Please add Bay to the map pool.
1.) Blind Voting ✓
2.) +Tournament Maps ✓
3.) MORE Maps ✓
4.) MORE Vetoes ✓
YES! I have enjoyed the map pool, especially the team game pool, lots of varied open and closed maps
I definitely had fun playing migration and enclosed a lot this cycle!
Loved it, I think the next step is make a bigger map pool so we can always have classics maps such as cross, Atacama and those mapa that are in the 80% of the tournaments
“The happier people are with the map pool the more people will play ranked actively”
True, but that has to allow for the possibility that the player base wants to play slow closed maps, or don’t want any variation of the map pool literally just the same 4 maps all the time.
For real though, if the map pool was Arabia + Arena only and you got 1 ban 😂 who knows maybe actually MORE people would play ranked.
T90 burn is so funny😂
I've reached my peak elo ever (1753) with this mappool. I guess watching most tournaments was worth it after all
They could just do an arabia with more trees & oasis'. To make it a bit more jack-of-all trades. Even just a 15% average reduction in distance between treelines would make it way more popular for the "arena" players & could become an alternative to the standard arabia.
Would like a Nomad option for 1v1 though other than that I think its great
I think part of the problem is that this game and demographics are old. That's not to say that we're all a bunch of retirees, but some of us have had 20 years to play this game, so we think we know what we like and aren't interested in trying anything new, and we might be a little set in our ways. This game is complex, and each map has its own unique and subtle meta that can take time to learn. For a 30 something adult (possibly with a spouse and children) working a day job, maybe they think they don't have time for that. They want a map where they know what to do.
Another part is that this game simply doesn't have *that* big of a player pool, especially in ranked. There's only ~16,000 people playing this game as I speak, and less than half of those are playing ranked. AoE2 is a very global game, so if you spread that across the world that's only what, a couple thousand people per continent spread across every ELO? There simply aren't enough people willing to try every new map that comes up in the queue.
I was fine with your map picks, but I think that unless we get a massive influx of new players, this is going to be a perpetual conundrum for AoE2.
The next map pool should guarantee 2-3 maps that are completely different from the previous map.
Like I said in my previous comments, my personal complaint is not with an individual map pool, but with the repetitive feeling between several consecutive map pools. The solution to this is either how the dev picks are used (these have the freedom to be something that hasn’t been seen recently) or to give us a fresh pool of maps to vote for (requires many more maps).
I like most of the maps, but I want to see more variety pool to pool.
Yeah it’s dope. More competition maps too please.
I don't get the devs, the game is open for modding and community based things...yet they won't allow custom maps designed and made by the community. It's so contradicting, it's like saying yeah i love potatoes in public, then shitting on it behind closed doors....like either you are up for it or not. Allowing the community to be a part of the game more with maps aswell by having creators etc make great maps can only make the game better
Needs more closed maps
Besides adding a greater choice of maps, it would be cool if one player picks, let's say, three maps; the opponent bans one of those, and the map is chosen randomly between the two remaining.
We should have enough bans to limit ourselves to 1 map. If I only want to see arabia, I should have that option. If an arena player only wants to play arena, they should have that option. I think most people are smart enough to know that if they ban everything except one random weird map, they will have longer queue times.
I mean the AoE playerbase is relatively veteran so i can see how someone jumpin in with no experience gets absolutely smashed because the game does have lots of things that even casual players have become really good at over the years that a novice players just wont know how to do
Got my a** wooped the first time I played Haboob. Nice change from the usual maps though. Let’s put Fractal in next!
hidden voting should be added. Also imo someone who didn't play a ranked game in the last month shouldnt be allowed to vote.
We should have 4 categories for the vote: a water map, a close map, an open map, and another one
I hope they bring empire wars back or at least a different mode of the game (6-9 vil start?), it had different cool maps like acclivity, marketplace etc.
I only play teamgames, i can only play a couple of games per day, my choices in the ladder are unfair maps, open maps and laming maps, for me it's not stress relieving as it stress inducing the way it is now, i will stop playing until maybe i get a more playable rotation but i definitely preferred it the way it was before, ofc this is a problem for my situation but maybe more players benefit from it
Get 15 maps, put them in a 5x3 rectangle, each player bans 2 columns and 1 row, any two players match and at least one map is open. Simple as that
Best map pool ever. Simple.
Great map pool. Could not agree more with your earlier analysis on too many closed maps. Keep it up!
Habob and hideout have added a lot of good games!
"T90 is a genius"
"Oh, this is a horrible forum."
11
I love the map pool! Other than haboob! Im getting the hang of it, but i HATE how exposed the woodlines are.
You can wall them in and make a gate
Wasn't that different from the older ones. The only way to really improve this is to select at least 3 of the maps randomly, and then add the rest of the options according to the results. Maps such as arabia, arena and bf should be constant and shouldn't be considered as part of the selection. Otherwise they're just taking up space and preventing the other maps from being displayed as an option. We'll need to have more bans and favorites of course.
let's go we opened the door, keep it open, and get some good chances thruw
Black Forest would be decent if you could have larger corridors like Rage Forest sometimes does. Walling the regular Black Forest is too easy so it's such a boring map. Arena is always boring. It's just standard strats. The only Feudal age strat you see is towers.
We could have this comp of map pull 1 Arabia 2 arena 3 megarandom and the rest could be so much crazy stuff or tournament maps that are being used on tournaments at that moment
and i think could be pretty sick map pool
The last map pool was much better. The new map pool is probably great for top players, for most casual players it's no good.
I'm a casual player and I love the current map pool. I created the topic Viper responded to in this video "The best map pool we've had so far". Not everybody wants to spend hours and hours on every game and drag them out into epic long wars.
Most likely having a better map pool won't make the people that play on lobbies go to the ladder. It's just a different mind set.
Probably not, people that only play on lobbies won't care. But there are a substantial number of players that play on both and it could change the balance of their play and for people that got bored with ranked and went looking for something else might come back to ranked.
Very very good map pool....thanks to you Vaypi
The sexy smooth jazz is very enjoyable
personally i don't like the team map pool cause i like closed maps but that's personal preference
Doesn't adding two "closed" maps dilute the changes of either getting in?
I'd love to see maps from tournaments in team games. Immagine having Dry River or Desert Slope in rankeds... OMG
Loving the map pool right now, haboob and enclosed making for some real fun games!
Closed maps rule!
"I need to browse reddit more"
Viper nooooooooooooooo!
I'd also prefer if voting was blind.
Every. Single. Time... I change my end-vote to align with what is already winning. Every. Time.
I agree. Jon Slow should do the next map pool.
As a lower rated player... No. I don't really like the map pool currently. I don't enjoy so many open maps. They all play out very similar to me.
Then change your strats.
@@BombaJead It's not about simply changing strategies. I have a way I like to play. This map pool forces me to play in a way I don't like to play a majority of the time. It's as simple as that. No singular map pool for ranked is ever going to make a majority of players happy for the simple fact that there are so many different niches in the community. The maps should be split into categories on a basis of whether or not they are very open (Arabia, haboob, atacama, etc) , closed (Arena, fortress, hideout, maybe runestones as I haven't played it in a while.), water/hybrid maps, and nomad style maps. That way everyone gets to play what they want to play and you can opt into or out of the various types of maps. It adds more diversity in having a larger map pool, and allows people a better choice on what they want to play.
hidden voting should be a thing for the presidential voting too in America lulullulu
We need a new Zone style ranked setup, like Voobly was also. Let people make their own lobbies with their own settings, simple! How have we gone backwards to this closed voting nonsense...
"T90 is a genius"
"Oh, this is a horrible forum"
1111111
T90 missing the massive battle in the middle of the map to follow around one villager of an almost-defeated player for five minutes.
3:10 the same goes for Islands-third place of most dislike and liked maps.
3:50 actually, I used all my bans in order to ban the too open maps like enclosed:D
5:00 but there are some open maps like enclosed where you cannot wall entirely or so awkward that you will lose when trying it.
6:40 hideout is the same as enclosed? really? In hideout you can wall the sides, in enclosed there is this road there no buildings can be constructed. So no, they are actually quite different.
7:45 Yes not all people in the forum watch your videos. Therefore, how should they know your limitations?
8:00 I strongly disagree. There are currently enough maps and enough bans. If we put more maps into the pool and lets say as many bans as only one map isnt banned; then the player can just go to the lobby system and wait there for an opponent. What I want to say is that with more maps in the pool and more bans, the queue will take too long and the whole thing of the matchmaking would not make sense anymore.
8:40 I think that we will never have a fully satisfying map pool for everybody, everytime. For me personally, there is usually something good and I ban the rest of it and agree to play maps which I am not so good at-A little bit out of my comfort zone, if you may say so.
Yep.
Land Nomad still missing! 😢
Will you continue the warcraft 3 campaign? For this channel
I only play multiplayer but my main complaint is that with only one ban I can't avoid arena and black forest.
It's a time thing. I don't always have time for a 2 hr game. Your maps were good though.
Do what TWest does. Get a group of 4 on a team and you each use 1 ban each. That way you get 4 bans instead of 1.
we need new and intresting closed maps, da-wall is a great example of this
No
I love it. Already favorited Arena and banned haboob, migration and enclosed ❤
u rite. mad cuz bad
no, i don't. the previous map pool had 3 closed maps because the majority of people chose them, this map pool was just for people who like very fast matches and dislike defensive playstyles. maybe in your elo range you guys can do anything with every map, but the majority of people don't have the same understanding of the game or are as fast/good at defending and still want to play. you've forced the majority of players, who clearly like closed maps, as shown by the previous map pool, to play open maps. Just using your position as a top player/really well known player to select the maps you like.
i think map pools should be randomized. keep the usual favourites, arabia, arena, nomad, black forest, and the rest should be random maps from the pool, or as random as a computer can do it, this way it would be "ahh, map pool sucks this week, bad luck" and not "ahh, a top player is making us play their home maps, that sucks"
and yes, of course some people like this map pool, there is a big playerbase, and i'm sure most of those who participate in forums and watch your videos and tournaments are people who are into those super aggressive 15 minute long matches, and those would be the most likely to participate on the forum/comments, but again, shown by the previous map pool, those people are not the majority of players
I like daut idea. Put way more maps and give unlimited bans. If I want to play arena 24/7 I should be able to. Yeah I might have to wait 15 min for a game but I rather do that than play something I don't want.
No. Do not care about 1v1 map pool but could it have killed you to throw in at least 1 clown map into the mix for TGs? Like Amazon tunnel.
Loved the haboob choicw
I love it
yea, for me personally that is one of the worst map pools. i wasn't ableto ban all maps that I hate. I will actually fully skip this rotation.
haboob is a terrible map, migration is a fun idea but in many ways it just results in lost time to transport vils.
but apparently I am in the minority.
It’s great brother
Yes
No.
1:49
_'T90 is a genius'... well this is a horrible forum_
lmao
Map pool will never be great as long as devs limit the pool to only the original maps. (Rather than tournaments maps etc)
In my humble opinion! Viper do a good job with the mapool in general terms. Haabooc is very very fun map, migration oh boy! Enclosed enyoy.i ban Arabia and arena.
Why not take MBL's example and turn the most open maps into a fully-walled arena and then make an immortal rant about how you hate arena as a map?
before we can get more tournament maps in the game, we NEED tournament organizers to stop using glorified custom scenarios pretending to be "random" maps as tournament maps.
Personally, I wasn't a fan. Too many open maps for my taste. I'd love to see an even split of open/closed/hybrid maps. Give people the opportunity to ban most of the map types they dont feel like playing that day.
As long as nomad is not in there it’s a great pool
I like migration
omg biper saw my comment
Please no closed maps. I want strategic options
lol
I just want to play Cup in ranked :/
Hideout is the most boring terrible map ever put in the game, glad it wasn't an option. I genuinely think black forest is more aggressive
i will favorite Arabia forever, sorry.
I want to play other maps but dont want to be stomped all games for the meta civs.
nobody will play another maps while balance is done in base on Arabia and civs are terribly OP outside it and people have not any penalty to abuse them, while we dont have random civ encouragement, you can do 151 maps to choose and people will keep just playing Arabia.
1
To be honest I would love to have a nomad map everytime, nomad maps are the peak for growing and having experience
Can we get rid of Arabia and Arena please?