Update- Many have been mentioning things that I said in the video. I guess I didn't explain myself well enough. 1. I know Amazon has renamed Create Space Paper to Amazon or Independent printed paper. But I was using the old term Because that's what most Colorist know this type of paper by. #2. I Know Creative Haven and Dover books are NOT Amazon Printed. I know they are printed by the printing press that I mentioned in the Video. I just wanted to clear these few things up. Thank you so much for reading and watching.
You explained yourself perfectly, Necee. Everyone in the coloring community, meaning the people who spend money on these books, know this paper as CreateSpace. They're not interested in the technicalities of self-publising except for the small minority who are thinking about putting out a coloring book themselves. While the updated language was helpful in that people now know what to beware of when buying books (i.e., new name, same paper) this video was aimed at a specific audience to explain the difference in certain books. It was a very informative, well presented video. Please don't let people with an agenda make you feel bad. You do a great job of bringing information to this community every day. Most colorists aren't looking to publish a book. They're looking for beautiful books on quality paper. I hate to say it but I've never gotten a book on ANY Amazon-published book that met the second half of that. I won't buy them anymore, period. If an artist doesn't offer a PDF alternative I take a pass. It's a shame for newer artists that I would like to support; for those who have been in the game for a minute, maybe it's time to get a better publisher and start making their customers happier. I'm sure Johanna Basford didn't get to her sales level by cutting corners on paper costs, and while I realize that self-publishing costs are prohibitive, self-publishing isn't the only route. If you produce quality art, start looking for a house to take you on.
Either way, I personally don't like any paper by Amazon. I really would like a "deluxe" option with actual good paper, and I would be more than happy to pay more for it.
I have been complaining to Eric Fritzen for years about the black backed pages in Jade Summer books. The paper is usually (though not always) horrible soft and grayish and the books curl. Their latest book came on nice white paper - for which I was thrilled!
Wow - why all the drama? This is supposed to be a fun and stress reducing hobby. I sure wish I knew why so many coloring books are printed with the black on the reverse side. They sure seem nicer when there isn’t black on the back. The books seem to curl so much when there is black on the reverse side. And doesn’t it take a lot more ink just to print a book with all that black ink on the back side?
I cannot stand the paper in the NLT books and it's so frustrating because I love Tatyana's art. I have tried Gesso, I have tried harder pencils but then the black backing leaves traces, and it's honestly not really multimedia paper because be serious, it's soft and absorbent (I don't know about cornbread but it almost feels like paper towels lmao 😆). I wouldn't use markers or watercolor on it. So I just gave up and started buying the PDF books from her Etsy shop because I do love her work and I want to support her, I just can't stand the paper. To be fair? I just don't buy Create Space books at all anymore. It's terrible paper. I don't want to be frustrated while I'm coloring. Everything doesn't have to be a masterpiece, but it SHOULD be relaxing. Amazon needs to do better by their independent artists. They allow plagiarized artwork to be sold even after it's been pointed out, they charge artists to print books on low quality paper, and they don't stand behind them at all.
I love your videos and honestly it's the realness in them I like. I will say as a hobby colorist the coloring world drama had not gone unnoticed, I have heard/seen others refer to it. What Ms. Muller did was unprofessional. She should have addressed her issues with you in privet even if she simply viewed it as education. After all, I doubt she would like one of her coloring books reviewed by another artist pointing out where they felt her design failed or lacked merit. Keep it up, the fact that you issued a retraction after receiving additional information says a lot about you. Ms. Miller's rather half hearted Apology speaks much about her as well.
Thank you for this. It helps a lot. I recently ordered a book that came on what has to be the cheapest Amazon paper (from a publisher called prism press) and the paper is terrible. It's really been a disappointment because there are so many good books I'd like to order but now I know a little more of what to look for. I recently bought NLT Interiors for my mom (October 2020) and just tried it now in comparison to my Blooms book and the thickness of the NLT book is much heavier. The Blooms book feels almost like newsprint! I am using Artezas on both, since I can't stand how unpigmented Crayolas look. On the Prism Press book it's a workout to even use the Artezas. Fortunately, I'm finding it's much better on the newer NLT book. Not nearly as good as using them on higher quality paper, but I may try another one of her books and see what happens. I had crossed all Coloring Book Cafe books off my list as well, based on assumption, but I will give them a chance now after seeing your video. Dover/Creative Haven paper is so good!
Some prefer the Amazon paper because it has tooth to it which what you want for colored pencils. A toothy surface allows for more layers than smooth paper and any artist who works with colored pencils knows this. Smooth paper is intended for markers. Personally I dislike smooth paper because it is more difficult to layer properly on. Sometimes it is personal preference when it comes to paper. It goes without saying if one likes a specific paper type better than another that it does not mean that it is the best paper to color on. My only complaint about Amazon paper is that I wish it were thicker. The pencil you use will also make a difference, budget pencils do not perform quite as well as artist grade but they are great for coloring.
That's not entirely accurate. While it's true that you want some tooth with colored pencils, you don't want cheap, paper-towel-feeling, grayish kindergarten craft paper that leaves bumps and patchy blotches even if you're using Luminance and applying Gamsol. In fact, Amazon paper is so sub par that I can only apply OMS once or the paper starts to disintegrate. Anyone who does bokeh will let you know what a problem that will be. I have 110 lb 199 g/m² card stock that is smooth, and I can put down 12 layers before I have to apply spirits to layer further, which for a coloring page generally isn't necessary. Paper with a heavy tooth chews up my pencils. I don't like it. It's a matter of personal preference, but any professional work I do with colored pencils is NOT done on "toothy"paper. It's either done on the stock I described above or mixed media paper. Unless I'm using watercolor pencils, in which case I'll use either hot or cold press watercolor paper, depending on the effects I want to achieve.
Necee I think this was a really good way of explaining the difference in how the paper feels and how to use it. I understood what you said that there are 2 different papers the black and the white and that the paper quality seems to have changed through the years. I don’t know who got a different story or idea from your video but that seems pretty gosh darn accurate to me. I think you did a splendid job with explaining how best the paper with the black back ground is used. I agree I wouldn’t want to use my soft pencils on that paper. Love the comment from the other subscriber who stated that Amazon is the one who should be supporting the coloring community and providing our independently published artists with better paper options. That was spot on 👌
I know this video is getting some controversy. But as a super new adult colorist I want to thank you. Sometimes I buy books (mostly the scholastic Harry Potter etc) just based on the content and I can’t ever understand why it feels different when coloring. I always chalk it up to my budget hobbyist supplies or wonder why the technique I’m trying isn’t working the same as the last attempt. Even if this has some information that needs compounding on. it shows me how to look in the book to do my own research and learn what kind of materials suite my needs or current skills. Thank you for taking the time to help.
It's good to know which pencils work best with which paper. Maybe this will steer people in the direction of learning that combination and stop condemning the paper when the pencil doesn't perform as expected. Thank you for the information. 👍🐧
@@Pixie_Barrow2024 I agree. The should provide better for these amazing artists. I guess since they are Amazon, they can do what they want. In the meantime, we'll have tto figure it out for ourselves while they get their act together. 👍
So going with current paper, is the KDP 50# standard or the 60# for color printing multimedia the better choice to choose for coloring pages when publishing ? Assuming using all white paper both sides.
Thank you so much for this. I have Nice Little Town 6 and Castle Arts dont work on this paper. I also have Selena Fenech's book Mermaids and have found Polychromos with OSM works better than Prisma. I agree with you about Prisma working better on CH paper. Does applying Gesso on Createspace paper help at all? Or is it a waste of money? I appreciate your video a lot as it helps me understand the different papers more and how to adapt my coloring. I'm only 2yrs into coloring so still a lot to learn.
I have 2 of Tatiana's books from 2018, I really dislike the paper in it. Schpirerr Farbens do work much better than any other pencil I own. I hated how Prisma's and Arteza worked in these. I have not tried my Polychromos in them yet.
I absolutely love her artwork, just can't deal with the paper. I started buying the PDF versions from her Etsy shop instead. That way I'm not supporting a company that isn't supporting a base that brings them a huge income while at the same time I AM supporting an artist whose work I love. Also, you have unlimited access to the art so you can color it in many different mediums, on different papers, you can rescale it, the choices are so much bigger. Of course now I spend a fortune on paper and ink...😂
@@daelite69 I'm actually going to see if contacting her through her shop and suggesting that she switch to another publishing platform has any effect. I don't know how long you have to sign on for with Amazon, but it's worth suggesting. I'm sure more people would buy the books if the paper were better.
This is a very informative video, however, is this information on the paper based on info from Amazon KDP ( which is what Createspace is now called ) or is this based on your opinion? The book with the black background has a different feel to the paper because of the ink on the backside of the page. Also, KDP has made a change to the paper over the years. Have you contacted KDP about this paper?
The Creative Haven coloring books are published Dover Publications, a company that has been around a very long time, not Amazon. I don't care for the Creative Haven paper, especially with Prismacolor Premier pencils. The paper is too smooth, and cannot accept many layers. Especially with waxy pencils, like Prismacolor. In fact, it can't take many layers of any pencils I've tried. Or stand up to water based markers and o other water based media.
I know they are printed not by Amazon. I mentioned that in the video. I was just comparing their paper to the others so that people can understand how the different papers feel.
I usually print all my coloring pages onto cardstock. I have colored in creative haven books a few times and my prismas and hero pencils worked best for me. I guess everyone is different because I don't do a lot of layers. That's not my coloring style. But I can understand if your style is to do a lot of light layers, how it might not work well for you. It's interesting how we all are different. That's The joy of this Hobby. No rules. ☺️
@@DollarDiva99 I hope the comment that I left didn't cause you sorrow. If it did, I whole-heartedly apologize. I only commented because I've heard quite a few RUclipsrs claim Creative Haven books are published by Amazon. While I don't care for Dover's CH paper, I feel like the other RUclipsrs hurt Dover's reputation by making such non-researched claims. Many viewers believe everything their RUclipsrs tell them, and do not investigate on their own. Dover published all manner of books, and has been around a lot longer than Amazon. I'll also admit I didn't watch all they through 've the audio dropped out on my device. I dually apologize for that. I'm very sorry, my dear.
@@DollarDiva99 My printer is a joke. It's a Brother laser printer and the toner flakes off paper, even if the paper is below the maximum paper weight recommendation by a significant margin. It is also erasable, even when lightly erasing by hand. Layers are less a choice than a necessity for me. Coloring is all I have to do, but in order to fill most of my waking time coloring, I have had to l to learn to be light handed. That makes me an extremely slow colorist.
Is it the same for the book where the page is just a bunch of colors and people are supposed to draw their own book? I suppose paper quality doesn't really matter much in that case, huh?
@@darklingpixie9239 I am not sure which book to which you are referring, but all books published through KDP - coloring books, novels, journals, color ink , black ink and more - all have the same paper from which to choose.
Createspace has one type of paper. There is no choice in paper for Amazon books. Every artist who uses Amazon or KDP as they are now called have the same paper in them. There is one choice for paper, this is ALL misinformation about KDP paper.
I NEVER would have understood what she meant if she had said KDP paper. Almost everyone in my colouring world uses the term Create Space paper. Never heard anyone calling it KDP. Whether we are right or wrong , no matter, because we know what we mean. As for this being ALL misinformation, I disagree. This is her impression. Personally I find Creative Haven paper much much better quality than Create Space/KDP. Why didn't you send your comment more privately, one on one ?
What about the glossier paper that artists are now using in some of their books? Isn’t that an option for them to choose when Amazon prints them (so they can choose the thinner/cheaper paper or the glossy/more expensive paper)?
Not a very nice comment at all. This is our Divas thoughts and also some very useful information, at no point is she saying don’t buy these books she is giving her helpful tips and hints for using these books and paper. The pencils that will work with the paper in these books. I hear no misinformation .
@@doji312 have edited I stick to my thoughts on the Diva giving good info, just such a nasty comment not nice at all and to hear her so up set not nice .
Update- Many have been mentioning things that I said in the video. I guess I didn't explain myself well enough. 1. I know Amazon has renamed Create Space Paper to Amazon or Independent printed paper. But I was using the old term Because that's what most Colorist know this type of paper by. #2. I Know Creative Haven and Dover books are NOT Amazon Printed. I know they are printed by the printing press that I mentioned in the Video. I just wanted to clear these few things up. Thank you so much for reading and watching.
You explained yourself perfectly, Necee. Everyone in the coloring community, meaning the people who spend money on these books, know this paper as CreateSpace. They're not interested in the technicalities of self-publising except for the small minority who are thinking about putting out a coloring book themselves. While the updated language was helpful in that people now know what to beware of when buying books (i.e., new name, same paper) this video was aimed at a specific audience to explain the difference in certain books. It was a very informative, well presented video. Please don't let people with an agenda make you feel bad. You do a great job of bringing information to this community every day. Most colorists aren't looking to publish a book. They're looking for beautiful books on quality paper. I hate to say it but I've never gotten a book on ANY Amazon-published book that met the second half of that. I won't buy them anymore, period. If an artist doesn't offer a PDF alternative I take a pass. It's a shame for newer artists that I would like to support; for those who have been in the game for a minute, maybe it's time to get a better publisher and start making their customers happier. I'm sure Johanna Basford didn't get to her sales level by cutting corners on paper costs, and while I realize that self-publishing costs are prohibitive, self-publishing isn't the only route. If you produce quality art, start looking for a house to take you on.
Either way, I personally don't like any paper by Amazon. I really would like a "deluxe" option with actual good paper, and I would be more than happy to pay more for it.
I have been complaining to Eric Fritzen for years about the black backed pages in Jade Summer books. The paper is usually (though not always) horrible soft and grayish and the books curl. Their latest book came on nice white paper - for which I was thrilled!
Wow - why all the drama? This is supposed to be a fun and stress reducing hobby. I sure wish I knew why so many coloring books are printed with the black on the reverse side. They sure seem nicer when there isn’t black on the back. The books seem to curl so much when there is black on the reverse side. And doesn’t it take a lot more ink just to print a book with all that black ink on the back side?
I cannot stand the paper in the NLT books and it's so frustrating because I love Tatyana's art. I have tried Gesso, I have tried harder pencils but then the black backing leaves traces, and it's honestly not really multimedia paper because be serious, it's soft and absorbent (I don't know about cornbread but it almost feels like paper towels lmao 😆). I wouldn't use markers or watercolor on it. So I just gave up and started buying the PDF books from her Etsy shop because I do love her work and I want to support her, I just can't stand the paper.
To be fair? I just don't buy Create Space books at all anymore. It's terrible paper. I don't want to be frustrated while I'm coloring. Everything doesn't have to be a masterpiece, but it SHOULD be relaxing. Amazon needs to do better by their independent artists. They allow plagiarized artwork to be sold even after it's been pointed out, they charge artists to print books on low quality paper, and they don't stand behind them at all.
Yesss. You said it perfectly.
I love your videos and honestly it's the realness in them I like. I will say as a hobby colorist the coloring world drama had not gone unnoticed, I have heard/seen others refer to it. What Ms. Muller did was unprofessional. She should have addressed her issues with you in privet even if she simply viewed it as education. After all, I doubt she would like one of her coloring books reviewed by another artist pointing out where they felt her design failed or lacked merit. Keep it up, the fact that you issued a retraction after receiving additional information says a lot about you. Ms. Miller's rather half hearted Apology speaks much about her as well.
Life is too short for frustrating paper or people!
Thank you for this. It helps a lot. I recently ordered a book that came on what has to be the cheapest Amazon paper (from a publisher called prism press) and the paper is terrible. It's really been a disappointment because there are so many good books I'd like to order but now I know a little more of what to look for. I recently bought NLT Interiors for my mom (October 2020) and just tried it now in comparison to my Blooms book and the thickness of the NLT book is much heavier. The Blooms book feels almost like newsprint! I am using Artezas on both, since I can't stand how unpigmented Crayolas look. On the Prism Press book it's a workout to even use the Artezas. Fortunately, I'm finding it's much better on the newer NLT book. Not nearly as good as using them on higher quality paper, but I may try another one of her books and see what happens. I had crossed all Coloring Book Cafe books off my list as well, based on assumption, but I will give them a chance now after seeing your video. Dover/Creative Haven paper is so good!
Some prefer the Amazon paper because it has tooth to it which what you want for colored pencils. A toothy surface allows for more layers than smooth paper and any artist who works with colored pencils knows this.
Smooth paper is intended for markers.
Personally I dislike smooth paper because it is more difficult to layer properly on. Sometimes it is personal preference when it comes to paper. It goes without saying if one likes a specific paper type better than another that it does not mean that it is the best paper to color on. My only complaint about Amazon paper is that I wish it were thicker.
The pencil you use will also make a difference, budget pencils do not perform quite as well as artist grade but they are great for coloring.
That's not entirely accurate. While it's true that you want some tooth with colored pencils, you don't want cheap, paper-towel-feeling, grayish kindergarten craft paper that leaves bumps and patchy blotches even if you're using Luminance and applying Gamsol. In fact, Amazon paper is so sub par that I can only apply OMS once or the paper starts to disintegrate. Anyone who does bokeh will let you know what a problem that will be. I have 110 lb 199 g/m² card stock that is smooth, and I can put down 12 layers before I have to apply spirits to layer further, which for a coloring page generally isn't necessary. Paper with a heavy tooth chews up my pencils. I don't like it.
It's a matter of personal preference, but any professional work I do with colored pencils is NOT done on "toothy"paper. It's either done on the stock I described above or mixed media paper. Unless I'm using watercolor pencils, in which case I'll use either hot or cold press watercolor paper, depending on the effects I want to achieve.
Necee I think this was a really good way of explaining the difference in how the paper feels and how to use it. I understood what you said that there are 2 different papers the black and the white and that the paper quality seems to have changed through the years. I don’t know who got a different story or idea from your video but that seems pretty gosh darn accurate to me. I think you did a splendid job with explaining how best the paper with the black back ground is used. I agree I wouldn’t want to use my soft pencils on that paper. Love the comment from the other subscriber who stated that Amazon is the one who should be supporting the coloring community and providing our independently published artists with better paper options. That was spot on 👌
Thank you for explaining..just in time before I buy!
I know this video is getting some controversy. But as a super new adult colorist I want to thank you.
Sometimes I buy books (mostly the scholastic Harry Potter etc) just based on the content and I can’t ever understand why it feels different when coloring. I always chalk it up to my budget hobbyist supplies or wonder why the technique I’m trying isn’t working the same as the last attempt.
Even if this has some information that needs compounding on. it shows me how to look in the book to do my own research and learn what kind of materials suite my needs or current skills.
Thank you for taking the time to help.
I have been wanting feedback from this for some time! Thank you so much!!!
Thank you so much for watching
It's good to know which pencils work best with which paper. Maybe this will steer people in the direction of learning that combination and stop condemning the paper when the pencil doesn't perform as expected. Thank you for the information. 👍🐧
Yessssss. You said it perfectly 💜
That's fair. I'm just exasperated with Amazon not providing a better support system for the artists that bring them so much income.
@@Pixie_Barrow2024 I agree. The should provide better for these amazing artists. I guess since they are Amazon, they can do what they want. In the meantime, we'll have tto figure it out for ourselves while they get their act together. 👍
It's also a great reason to have/keep more pencil sets.
So going with current paper, is the KDP 50# standard or the 60# for color printing multimedia
the better choice to choose for coloring pages when publishing ? Assuming using all white paper both sides.
Thank you so much for this. I have Nice Little Town 6 and Castle Arts dont work on this paper. I also have Selena Fenech's book Mermaids and have found Polychromos with OSM works better than Prisma. I agree with you about Prisma working better on CH paper.
Does applying Gesso on Createspace paper help at all? Or is it a waste of money?
I appreciate your video a lot as it helps me understand the different papers more and how to adapt my coloring. I'm only 2yrs into coloring so still a lot to learn.
Thanks for this video! Very helpful!
Can someone please explain... if you are on Amazon and looking at a listing how can you tell if it's printed through their service? Thank you.
Look at who published it. Scroll down to book info. If it says independently published. It's published by Amazon.
I have 2 of Tatiana's books from 2018, I really dislike the paper in it. Schpirerr Farbens do work much better than any other pencil I own. I hated how Prisma's and Arteza worked in these. I have not tried my Polychromos in them yet.
Yesss. My prismas did not like the paper also.
I absolutely love her artwork, just can't deal with the paper. I started buying the PDF versions from her Etsy shop instead. That way I'm not supporting a company that isn't supporting a base that brings them a huge income while at the same time I AM supporting an artist whose work I love. Also, you have unlimited access to the art so you can color it in many different mediums, on different papers, you can rescale it, the choices are so much bigger. Of course now I spend a fortune on paper and ink...😂
@@Pixie_Barrow2024 I completely agree! PDF’s will be the only way I will purchase any more of her books.
@@daelite69 I'm actually going to see if contacting her through her shop and suggesting that she switch to another publishing platform has any effect. I don't know how long you have to sign on for with Amazon, but it's worth suggesting. I'm sure more people would buy the books if the paper were better.
This is a very informative video, however, is this information on the paper based on info from Amazon KDP ( which is what Createspace is now called ) or is this based on your opinion? The book with the black background has a different feel to the paper because of the ink on the backside of the page. Also, KDP has made a change to the paper over the years. Have you contacted KDP about this paper?
The Creative Haven coloring books are published Dover Publications, a company that has been around a very long time, not Amazon. I don't care for the Creative Haven paper, especially with Prismacolor Premier pencils. The paper is too smooth, and cannot accept many layers. Especially with waxy pencils, like Prismacolor. In fact, it can't take many layers of any pencils I've tried. Or stand up to water based markers and o other water based media.
I know they are printed not by Amazon. I mentioned that in the video. I was just comparing their paper to the others so that people can understand how the different papers feel.
I usually print all my coloring pages onto cardstock. I have colored in creative haven books a few times and my prismas and hero pencils worked best for me. I guess everyone is different because I don't do a lot of layers. That's not my coloring style. But I can understand if your style is to do a lot of light layers, how it might not work well for you. It's interesting how we all are different. That's The joy of this Hobby. No rules. ☺️
@@DollarDiva99
I hope the comment that I left didn't cause you sorrow. If it did, I whole-heartedly apologize. I only commented because I've heard quite a few RUclipsrs claim Creative Haven books are published by Amazon. While I don't care for Dover's CH paper, I feel like the other RUclipsrs hurt Dover's reputation by making such non-researched claims. Many viewers believe everything their RUclipsrs tell them, and do not investigate on their own. Dover published all manner of books, and has been around a lot longer than Amazon. I'll also admit I didn't watch all they through 've the audio dropped out on my device. I dually apologize for that. I'm very sorry, my dear.
@@DollarDiva99
My printer is a joke. It's a Brother laser printer and the toner flakes off paper, even if the paper is below the maximum paper weight recommendation by a significant margin. It is also erasable, even when lightly erasing by hand. Layers are less a choice than a necessity for me. Coloring is all I have to do, but in order to fill most of my waking time coloring, I have had to l to learn to be light handed. That makes me an extremely slow colorist.
There is not a choice given to the artist when it comes to paper for KDP books.
Is it the same for the book where the page is just a bunch of colors and people are supposed to draw their own book? I suppose paper quality doesn't really matter much in that case, huh?
@@darklingpixie9239 I am not sure which book to which you are referring, but all books published through KDP - coloring books, novels, journals, color ink , black ink and more - all have the same paper from which to choose.
Createspace has one type of paper. There is no choice in paper for Amazon books. Every artist who uses Amazon or KDP as they are now called have the same paper in them. There is one choice for paper, this is ALL misinformation about KDP paper.
I NEVER would have understood what she meant if she had said KDP paper. Almost everyone in my colouring world uses the term Create Space paper. Never heard anyone calling it KDP. Whether we are right or wrong , no matter, because we know what we mean. As for this being ALL misinformation, I disagree. This is her impression. Personally I find Creative Haven paper much much better quality than Create Space/KDP. Why didn't you send your comment more privately, one on one ?
@@arlenelewis1908 I agree
What about the glossier paper that artists are now using in some of their books? Isn’t that an option for them to choose when Amazon prints them (so they can choose the thinner/cheaper paper or the glossy/more expensive paper)?
Not a very nice comment at all. This is our Divas thoughts and also some very useful information, at no point is she saying don’t buy these books she is giving her helpful tips and hints for using these books and paper. The pencils that will work with the paper in these books. I hear no misinformation .
@@doji312 have edited I stick to my thoughts on the Diva giving good info, just such a nasty comment not nice at all and to hear her so up set not nice .