Thanks so much Ron! The tricky part with 380’s is finding a round that does what it should AND works in your gun! Hahaha. Almost like old 1911’s and hollow point reliability.
Awesome testing👍 I saw another fluted round that may have some feeding advantages. The Norma NXD is a copper and polymer matrix that is a non expanding defensive load with the same theory. It appears to have smoother edges than the Underwood projectiles have. I can't say for sure, but the Norma NXD appear to be a casting of some kind where the Underwood appears to be cut or stamped, resulting in smoother, more rounded edges on the Norma. My BG 2.0 has ran both with no issues, but I could see the bullet itself make a difference in feeding maybe.🤷♂
@@Disastrous.Affect great idea DA. I’ve seen those before but I haven’t had a chance to try them. I have some rounds directly made by Lehigh Defense I will try in the near future and some solid copper S&B ammo on tap (also some G2 ammo but that’s a hollow point). I also want to see if there isn’t something in my feed ramp causing the issue. But see, this is what mean that this round runs great for others and as such is a great round.
I carry this ammo in my Ruger LCPII. It's 100% reliable in it and it shoots well for me. I really like the grips on your Beretta. I love the S&W Bodyguard 2.0 except for the giant notch for the rear site. I hope S&W releases an alternate site as an option as I'd like to have one.
Thanks Frank. Yah it's so weird, I carry it in my kimber sometimes and I often carry them in my 9mm guns so I really like them but from previous testing I knew it didn't work in my Berretta and I'm just frustrated it wont run in my BG2.0. I hear every time I put a video about how this round works great in their BG2.0 so makes me think it's just my gun. Frustrating. I've said it before, maybe I'll take action, but I need to try polishing my feed ramp. Agreed, the rear sight is VERY wide. At least I hope for an aftermarket. With how well I hear this gun is selling, and what a great gun it is, I suspect someone will do it soon.
@@triggerbarPhD There's lots of videos available that show polishing of the feed ramp. Personally, I do not use a Dremel. I like to polish them by hand with Flitz. Doing it by hand eliminates the chance of actually changing the angle of the ramp and just makes the ramp more smooth allowing the bullet easier access to the chamber. With this method if it helps the gun become more reliable great, if not it hasn't hurt anything.
@@frankbrowning328 thanks. Yes I’ve done it a few times just need to actually spend the time and do it in this gun!! Just had my fitz out polishing a new trigger job on a cz I have. Another reason I haven’t jumped is I still feel the federal hydra shok deep still might be a better round and that runs great in my gun.
@@triggerbarPhD I do love Flitz. I use it on guns and also for all sorts of stuff around the house. It's made in Waukesha, WI just 20 minutes from my house and the people there are very friendly and helpful. Sometimes it's hard to find and I've been able to just drive there and buy it from them. Yes, that Federal round is interesting. Maybe well see something on that in the future?
Thanks Grey Shooter! Yes it really is. But, I’d for sure test it in your BG2.0 as I’ve heard many other owners saying it works great in their gun. 🤷♂️
Lots of my friends and leo partners are now carrying the bodyguard 2.0...so your defense ammo videos are VERY relevant...im sending them to your channel...please keep up the GREAT work!!! 🇺🇸 👍
@@wastool that’s what I’m carrying. I have a federal punch testing coming up and I compare it with the Hydra Shok deep with it too. And I’m still carrying hydra Shok deep!
Maybe you have plans to test it later, but if you have chosen .380 for deep concealment, and not for recoil reduction, the +P version of this round is a no brainer. Would have liked to have seen the 2 side by side, rather than using your gel space for a bunch of guns that no one is going to buy anymore.
Another good one TB. Every time I see Lehigh bullets, I think wow, but fairly often there are comments about something that might have done a bit better, or could have been a bit different. On the other hand, you walk the walk and bring it to us. At just a bit over two hundred ft-lbs., there’s a common thought(assumption) about people using FMJs, because of penetration problems. Maybe, stick one or two of those in gel to see what happens. But, this isn’t a request, just comment. I think great shooting. If I stuck aim points 4-5 inches apart, things would get mixed up, more often than not. Lol, I think you should burn up six or eight fifty buck boxes of ammo from the hip🤣.
Hahahaha thanks Craig. Yah all these aint cheap and the gel at $90 a block…I try to do as many different ammos in the same gel block and only get 2 boxes for testing. If I were in this to make money or break even I’d be an idiot. 😂🤣. So I do what I can. I agree these rounds are highly debated. I for sure want to compare them to FMJ and some flat nose rounds. I’ll get to that after I get though more of the “defense rounds”. Many people who carry 380, carry FMJ for these reasons. Thanks Craig!!
I love your videos. Short, to the point and informative. As for the Extreme Defender bullets, I'm not sure what to think. According to what I've read, in order for hydrostatic shock to cause tissue damage, the bullet must be travelling at over 2200 fps. That would seem to indicate that the "wound channel" we see in ballistics gel from this type of "external hollow point" does not represent damage to actual living flesh. That would then seem to mean that these bullets are no better than FMJs (other than the fact that they stop quicker and don't over penetrate). Yes, they do dump energy quicker than an FMJ, but other than what the bullet actually hits, does that energy dump cause any actual damage in living tissue?
Living thanks for much for this thoughtful addition. That’s the $$$ question right there. I have seen videos with folks using 9mm, 40 S&W, and 10mm rounds in hogs where the tissue damage in an animal is significantly more. But…as you point out, those rounds are much closer (and with 10mm over) to rifle speed. Some swear by these and say the proof is there, and others say like you it’s just gel. This gel is a simulation of a simulation of real life. They claim it mimics real gel perfectly but I’ve seen videos disproving that. I’d also argued that the famous meat target (which I love) isn’t perfect because that’s meat that doesn’t have the blood in it any more. Sigh. And to make matters worse these rounds haven’t been around enough to really have cadaver studies, so we are left with these guesses. I will point at the army recently picking black hills to make 9mm ammo for them that looks like it has these Lehigh defense bullets in them. Interesting? Or the army just testing things. What I can say is other than cost, I’d like these for areas I can’t use a hollow point. And if you are worried about over penetration of the 380 or other round perhaps this is better because those flutes do slow it down. Finally the big question is around the 380acp round which is frankly too slow. What self defense round should you use with a slow cartridge. What I believe is you want something with great penetration but not over penetration. Expansion is great but most important is getting deep enough to hit what you are shooting at. In other words I don’t have the answer either 😂🤣😂🤷♂️
@@triggerbarPhD I've heard it called the churro of death, the way it opens and cuts through. I'm not entirely sure of the twist rate on my 84bb but it would be interesting to see it out of the 1:10 barrel.
@@Millzspec I’ll give it a shot. Looks like it gets 8” of penetration but maybe that’s enough. I always look for rounds that get 12” but dang that petal is nasty. That would do a LOT of damage!
@@triggerbarPhD thats always been a concern for me as well. Like you say with bones and tendons and muscle in the way that 8 inches could quickly become 4 or less. Look forward to more of your testing!
Terrific testing! You have me considering a .380 now. Very interesting ballistics. 🤠👍
Thanks so much Ron! The tricky part with 380’s is finding a round that does what it should AND works in your gun! Hahaha. Almost like old 1911’s and hollow point reliability.
Awesome testing👍
I saw another fluted round that may have some feeding advantages. The Norma NXD is a copper and polymer matrix that is a non expanding defensive load with the same theory. It appears to have smoother edges than the Underwood projectiles have. I can't say for sure, but the Norma NXD appear to be a casting of some kind where the Underwood appears to be cut or stamped, resulting in smoother, more rounded edges on the Norma.
My BG 2.0 has ran both with no issues, but I could see the bullet itself make a difference in feeding maybe.🤷♂
@@Disastrous.Affect great idea DA. I’ve seen those before but I haven’t had a chance to try them. I have some rounds directly made by Lehigh Defense I will try in the near future and some solid copper S&B ammo on tap (also some G2 ammo but that’s a hollow point). I also want to see if there isn’t something in my feed ramp causing the issue. But see, this is what mean that this round runs great for others and as such is a great round.
I carry this ammo in my Ruger LCPII. It's 100% reliable in it and it shoots well for me. I really like the grips on your Beretta. I love the S&W Bodyguard 2.0 except for the giant notch for the rear site. I hope S&W releases an alternate site as an option as I'd like to have one.
Thanks Frank. Yah it's so weird, I carry it in my kimber sometimes and I often carry them in my 9mm guns so I really like them but from previous testing I knew it didn't work in my Berretta and I'm just frustrated it wont run in my BG2.0. I hear every time I put a video about how this round works great in their BG2.0 so makes me think it's just my gun. Frustrating. I've said it before, maybe I'll take action, but I need to try polishing my feed ramp.
Agreed, the rear sight is VERY wide. At least I hope for an aftermarket. With how well I hear this gun is selling, and what a great gun it is, I suspect someone will do it soon.
@@triggerbarPhD There's lots of videos available that show polishing of the feed ramp. Personally, I do not use a Dremel. I like to polish them by hand with Flitz. Doing it by hand eliminates the chance of actually changing the angle of the ramp and just makes the ramp more smooth allowing the bullet easier access to the chamber. With this method if it helps the gun become more reliable great, if not it hasn't hurt anything.
@@frankbrowning328 thanks. Yes I’ve done it a few times just need to actually spend the time and do it in this gun!! Just had my fitz out polishing a new trigger job on a cz I have. Another reason I haven’t jumped is I still feel the federal hydra shok deep still might be a better round and that runs great in my gun.
@@triggerbarPhD I do love Flitz. I use it on guns and also for all sorts of stuff around the house. It's made in Waukesha, WI just 20 minutes from my house and the people there are very friendly and helpful. Sometimes it's hard to find and I've been able to just drive there and buy it from them. Yes, that Federal round is interesting. Maybe well see something on that in the future?
What do you use flitz with a rag????@@frankbrowning328
Good test, Trigger Bar. It's a shame the Underwood isn't more reliable in the BG 2.0. 👊👍🇺🇲
Thanks Grey Shooter! Yes it really is. But, I’d for sure test it in your BG2.0 as I’ve heard many other owners saying it works great in their gun. 🤷♂️
Lots of my friends and leo partners are now carrying the bodyguard 2.0...so your defense ammo videos are VERY relevant...im sending them to your channel...please keep up the GREAT work!!! 🇺🇸 👍
Wow that’s awesome Kevin!! Thanks a ton!! I’ve got 3 more already to go over the next 2 weeks! Sig is coming up on Thursday!
@triggerbarPhD thanks so much trigger...much appreciated 🙏 my friend
I just picked up a Bodyguard 2.0 and I'm planning on feeding it Hydra-Shok Deeps. Seems like the best available combination to me.
@@wastool that’s what I’m carrying. I have a federal punch testing coming up and I compare it with the Hydra Shok deep with it too. And I’m still carrying hydra Shok deep!
Thanks for the review on this TBP! This seems like a great round. I'll see if it runs in my Bodyguard 2.0!
Awesome! Let me know how it goes.
Maybe you have plans to test it later, but if you have chosen .380 for deep concealment, and not for recoil reduction, the +P version of this round is a no brainer. Would have liked to have seen the 2 side by side, rather than using your gel space for a bunch of guns that no one is going to buy anymore.
Another good one TB. Every time I see Lehigh bullets, I think wow, but fairly often there are comments about something that might have done a bit better, or could have been a bit different. On the other hand, you walk the walk and bring it to us.
At just a bit over two hundred ft-lbs., there’s a common thought(assumption) about people using FMJs, because of penetration problems. Maybe, stick one or two of those in gel to see what happens. But, this isn’t a request, just comment.
I think great shooting. If I stuck aim points 4-5 inches apart, things would get mixed up, more often than not. Lol, I think you should burn up six or eight fifty buck boxes of ammo from the hip🤣.
Hahahaha thanks Craig. Yah all these aint cheap and the gel at $90 a block…I try to do as many different ammos in the same gel block and only get 2 boxes for testing. If I were in this to make money or break even I’d be an idiot. 😂🤣. So I do what I can.
I agree these rounds are highly debated. I for sure want to compare them to FMJ and some flat nose rounds. I’ll get to that after I get though more of the “defense rounds”. Many people who carry 380, carry FMJ for these reasons. Thanks Craig!!
I love your videos. Short, to the point and informative. As for the Extreme Defender bullets, I'm not sure what to think. According to what I've read, in order for hydrostatic shock to cause tissue damage, the bullet must be travelling at over 2200 fps. That would seem to indicate that the "wound channel" we see in ballistics gel from this type of "external hollow point" does not represent damage to actual living flesh. That would then seem to mean that these bullets are no better than FMJs (other than the fact that they stop quicker and don't over penetrate). Yes, they do dump energy quicker than an FMJ, but other than what the bullet actually hits, does that energy dump cause any actual damage in living tissue?
Living thanks for much for this thoughtful addition. That’s the $$$ question right there. I have seen videos with folks using 9mm, 40 S&W, and 10mm rounds in hogs where the tissue damage in an animal is significantly more. But…as you point out, those rounds are much closer (and with 10mm over) to rifle speed. Some swear by these and say the proof is there, and others say like you it’s just gel. This gel is a simulation of a simulation of real life. They claim it mimics real gel perfectly but I’ve seen videos disproving that. I’d also argued that the famous meat target (which I love) isn’t perfect because that’s meat that doesn’t have the blood in it any more. Sigh. And to make matters worse these rounds haven’t been around enough to really have cadaver studies, so we are left with these guesses. I will point at the army recently picking black hills to make 9mm ammo for them that looks like it has these Lehigh defense bullets in them. Interesting? Or the army just testing things. What I can say is other than cost, I’d like these for areas I can’t use a hollow point. And if you are worried about over penetration of the 380 or other round perhaps this is better because those flutes do slow it down. Finally the big question is around the 380acp round which is frankly too slow. What self defense round should you use with a slow cartridge. What I believe is you want something with great penetration but not over penetration. Expansion is great but most important is getting deep enough to hit what you are shooting at. In other words I don’t have the answer either 😂🤣😂🤷♂️
under ext penetrator ran in sw380 well; (doesn't in others)
Glad to hear it works for you!
Have you ever used the 75g interceptor round from the ballistic machinist?
I have not, seems like an interesting round, I’ll check it out!
@@triggerbarPhD I've heard it called the churro of death, the way it opens and cuts through. I'm not entirely sure of the twist rate on my 84bb but it would be interesting to see it out of the 1:10 barrel.
@@Millzspec I’ll give it a shot. Looks like it gets 8” of penetration but maybe that’s enough. I always look for rounds that get 12” but dang that petal is nasty. That would do a LOT of damage!
@@triggerbarPhD thats always been a concern for me as well. Like you say with bones and tendons and muscle in the way that 8 inches could quickly become 4 or less. Look forward to more of your testing!
@@Millzspec thanks again!