The Biggest Diplomacy Game Ever (Part 2)
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- Опубликовано: 25 окт 2024
- CaptainMeme and Ezio commentate part 2 of the 81 player Imperial Diplomacy Chaos spinoff - likely the largest Diplomacy variant ever played. In Chaos variants, every supply center on the map is controlled by a different player - here, CaptainMeme plays Ghent and Ezio plays Stockholm.
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The Spreadsheet: docs.google.co...
Diplomacy is a negotiation-based board game set during World War One. 7 players each control one great power (England, France, Germany, Austria, Italy, Russia, and Turkey) and fight for control of Europe, using their diplomatic skill to make covert deals with one another and to backstab their friends. Imperial Diplomacy is a variant created by Flare and Elisha, covering the full world map and set in the 1600s.
Apologies for the squeaky noises on Ezio's end from about 2:00 to 4:00 - we figured out what it was right after that so they're not present in any of the rest of the video!
THANK YOU
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“Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should”
Finland/Umea perspective on the Commonwealth/Wheel tensions
A very important diplomatic event happened that year that was missed (A lot to cover and remember lol)
We tried to convince the Wheel to formally declare war on the Commonwealth under the agreement we don't attack them and we just focus on England and Russia. Commonwealth countered by saying they would attack the rest of the Vikings with the Wheel. It was a close vote as the Wheel did a democracy on who to work with, but they voted in favour of working with the Vikings and eliminating Commonwealth. It was this reason that the unit in Brandenburg saved Prussia's life that turn.
After Trieste stabbed, the Wheel fell apart and the deal fell through to attack Commonwealth. The Wheel also gave up Northern Germany, giving permission to the Vikings to attack them if it meant we wouldn't attack the core wheel while they deal south with Italy. The Commonwealth says they're fine with Prussia surviving if he enters Northern Germany because of that and they incorrectly assume the Vikings are back to being at peace with the Commonwealth.
Also a fun tidbit, Italy promised to leave Corsica (our auditor) alive if the Vikings helped them attack the Wheel. I never imagined at the start of the game Corsica would ever be relevant to Vikings in terms of negotiation lol.
I love how the wheel is basicaly the HRE but even less put toghether
If we are talking about the actual HRE, then no. Real world HRE was a clusterf@ck of 50-60 princes, who all were basically the equivalent of a diplomacy player.
@agamemnonofmycenae5258 I think they meant more location-wise and decentralization-wise.
ImpDip Chaos is perfect for a historical reenactment of the HRE.
-Ezio
Edin here: great video again and I’m glad I get to replay the greatest hits of this game again through the video. It was a great time here, though I can’t believe people forgot about the GBA, which formed after my Viking stab. If Anyone was curious I stabbed for three main reasons: Ireland was my homie and I could never betray them like that (ignore the stab year four). It just broke my heart to help kill them. The second reason was again, the Vikings weren’t helping me so I felt no loyalty or reason towards helping them (also I had Irish Sea in until Oxford played their mean little trick). And reason three was that everyone else on the isle was anti-Viking so my stab would’ve and did bring us all together. GBA forever!!!!
Didn't expect my comment about my Marseille experience to get a mention at the start of the video. Glad you took an interest in it! :)
Sardinia here, and I hate to say it, but you kind of glossed over one of the most consequential/controversial decisions of the game on the Italian Spanish front and what you did which affected a lot.
So for those of you who watched you will note that Captain Meme stated that he prevented peace between the Spanish and Italian alliances, not entirely. That was a whole diplomatic mess which caused a LOT of problems.
So as Sardinia from my POV is that I need to be as loyal as possible to my allies in the Italian alliance for us to stay strong and survive together, that is why I went full out anti-wheel when they went into conflict with Trieste because Trieste was Italian and I knew that if the wheel takes him out then our alliance is that much weaker and defending every member of the alliance is important, also any builds that Rome will get would be helpful because then they can build fleets against Spain.
So essentially my strategy was, and it helped because I am that type of player, ally to the death and be a very loyal faithful ally to keep all of us strong which is why initially many Italians gathered round me as their leader for they knew, based on how I play in other games and just what I was doing, I didn't care how I did this game provided Italy did well as a whole, which will be proven down the line, foreshadowing.
This mentality though causes HUGE issues though with the discussions of peace with Spain given that Bordeaux became Italian because the whole point as said is NEVER let an ally down for that strengthens the alliance, we went to war with Spain because they were going to attack Bordeaux, it is that simple.
So when the peace offer came in the Spanish offered up Baleares in exchange for peace, and tbh I wanted to do that. But that was the problem. Being Sardinia and with not much else of a place for us to go if we peace out with Spain, I wanted deep inside to continue the war against Spain. BUT they were offering Baleares, so if I could negotiate peace, take Baleares and then stab that was the plan I was going for so I was like HELL YAH!
That is where the problem with public press came in though, I saw how annoyed Bordeaux became with Luxembourg just because of one comment that got Luxembourg essentially thrown out of the French alliance, I did not want to annoy Bordeaux by doing something that was actually beneficial to him, (taking Baleares so I have better attack options by stabbing Spain) by seeming like I wanted peace with Spain. Because this is public press, so I wanted to take Baleares, but the pitch is I get Baleares if I peace out with Spain.
So the dilemma I was facing was as follows.... How do I make myself honestly peace out with Spain so they relinquish Baleares, without seemingly betraying Bordeaux in the public press, because I am ally to the death player and whereas I defended Trieste diplomatically when he was getting attacked by the wheel, I shall defend Bordeaux against Spain for he is an Italian? This was especially tricky because the whole reason that Spain was peacing out with us and giving up Baleares was because France was attacking them, so I didn't want to annoy France especially not Bordeaux with them thinking we are going to stab them in the back by peacing out with Spain, because to peace out with Spain I needed to sound as genuine as possible for offering Baleares was a BIG risk. And I needed somehow to both sound genuine and have France continue to attack Spain so that Spain would feel pressured to follow through on their end of the peace deal.
I could not send a wink wink message myself to France in a way clear enough for them to understand that was not clear to Spain.
So I was in a dilemma and essentially on the peace negotiations for a while I stalled....
THIS is where Captain Meme comes in and in my mind at the time "fixes" everything. Notice how much Meme has said throughout these videos just how many messages was in Elm Hall and how hard it was to follow? Well for me the opposite was true because kind of being the de facto leader of Italy I followed every message in Elm Hall, but the counter to that? I barely followed anything else in the other halls for usually it was not relevant to me and I could not do all that much.
So while I was having my dilemma, Captain Meme pings me in Elm Hall and says "Hey I think you should take this deal from Spain" and at first I was confused asking myself "Why would he want that? He and the French are attacking Spain and he needs our help the Italians to crack them?". The answer to this solution was simple he wanted me to take Baleares to then stab Spain, obviously, the problem then would be me having to be genuine I wanted peace with Spain, which actually I think would have been easier to do than most people would think, for I was pitching myself, and kind of becoming known as very loyal does not break my deals. (But I would break my deal here to help out my ally Bordeaux). But then the second question went through my head which was "Ok why was Meme the one saying this and doesn't he know that me peacing out with Spain would seem like a betrayal to Bordeaux when I need France to continue pushing Spain since Bordeaux is Italian and making peace would seem like the Italians are leaving Bordeaux, and the rest of France, out to dry against Spain?"
The answer I come up with here that affected the game was that because I could not keep up with the other channels for I was dealing with the craziness of Elm, Bordeaux and the French alliance had in some other channel privately agreed that Italy peacing out with Spain only for them to stab Spain, was the best course of action, with Meme's message being that "wink wink do this" signal, because why else would Italy and Spain peacing out make sense for France? Also I was thinking to myself that Bordeaux, if he agreed, did not message me directly for that would seem suspicious and I did not think that if the French alliance with Meme was to give me said "wink wink do this" message it would not be a "Yeah peace out Sardinia then go to war" but rather sound like a genuine you should do this message so as to not give away intel.
Believing this I then was like "Awesome Meme has just represented the rest of France giving me the green light to peace out with Spain so the dilemma I was dealing with was null and void and I got the wink wink message Meme was trying to send. Time to try my best to sound like I actually want to peace out with Spain without giving any sense, and maybe send a "yeah we can help you against France Spain" message or two. Essentially just get on Spain's good side however necessary and make peace because I am "the honest bob" who would not break his deal, and the entirety of France knows that any messages I am sending to Spain is just to seem friendly so they accept peace giving us Baleares so we can continue to attack them." Right? WRONG!!!
Turns out during the time that Meme sent this message and my next couple hours negotiating as honestly as I possibly could with Spain for peace, with what I thought was French approval, Bordeaux was actually inactive and to make it worse, Meme had never, as I thought he did, discussed with Bordeaux and the rest of France this "wink wink" strategy message in another thread. So then suddenly Bordeaux comes back online, sees my "seeming to be betrayal talking of peace messages with Spain (remember he is italian and I was trying to be as genuine as possible with Spain)" and was like "hang on what is going on here Sardinia why are you betraying me? You defended Trieste to the death diplomatically, now you are betraying me you are going against the Italian alliance."
CRAP!!!!!
Continuation the message was too long for RUclips
Exactly what I did not want to happen, happened and now I was left with a new worse dilemma in that now, how do I now give Bordeaux the "wink wink" message, while continuing to honestly negotiate with Spain, while keeping Bordeaux on a war path against Spain for at this point he was threatening to stop attacking Spain, which was understandable considering what I was doing and him not knowing the behind the scenes of what is going on. But the whole reason that Spain wanted peace was because France was attacking them. In addition it got worse for now Bordeaux an Italian thought he was being betrayed, then how do I keep the entire rest of the Italians together and show them I am true to my word for they thought as well that me negotiating with Spain meant that I had approval from Bordeaux? In short Meme screwed me with what he sent and left me in a HORRIBLE position diplomatically, for I had to do all of this while having to continue to genuinely discuss peace with Spain, and I was even more angry with Meme at the time on the backdrop of this happening during Media Wars IV. AAAAACCCCCKKKKKK!!!!!
To his credit Meme did speak up and back me up that he told me to do peace negotiations with Spain, so I was hoping that Bordeaux would piece the clues together for why would Meme want me to make peace with Spain. While Bordeaux did thus forgive me for "betraying him" pinning the blame on Meme, because it was his fault. That did not get me out of the dilemma I was now in of what to do for Bordeaux at this point had not connected the dots and I sounded so genuine to Spain that even Meme was getting worried, if I remember correctly, was getting worried that I was being genuine for peace with Spain. I was quite mad and scrambling trying to get Bordeaux back online with what I am trying to do without giving it away and given my reaction of feeling like Meme betrayed me so as to sound more genuine for peace with Spain, even Meme at this point thought I was being genuine with Spain. That was the whole point!!! At one point I even sent a "slamming my head into the wall until it bleeds" message. All of this remember is public press which was the entire problem, and unfortunately as a result of all of this shenanigans, Spain began to become a bit fishy.
I was hoping that worst case scenario Meme and Bordeaux would be mad that I betrayed them going for "genuine peace" with Spain, while continuing against Spain, only to realize the next turn when I stabbed Spain, what I actually was doing with me planning to explain to them when the time comes, but unfortunately as a result of Bordeaux not putting together the pieces together, he said he would not continue to attack Spain, if I did not for me not attacking Spain which would jeopardize my whole plan regarding peace with Spain as Spain was only giving peace because they were being attacked by France.
As a last ditch effort, I tried to use my, I don't lie stick to my word and honor status to say to Bordeaux, "Look this is not my fault be mad at Meme I am now getting honor bound to peace out with Spain for I was being genuine with them" hoping that they would not be mad at me with the idea being that I am so loyal the fact of the matter that I was making peace with Spain due to bad miscommunication with Meme and cannot break my promise, would get on Bordeaux's if not good side, at least make him less mad so he does not, as I was beginning to worry, flip and attack me, because I betrayed him and Italy. Unfortunately though this does not work for he points to my messages where I swore to be honor bound to my allies, which was true, and to defend them to the death if need be for the prospering of Italy and how that supersedes the honor in giving my word to Spain for peace because said peace was being negotiated under the pretense, as I honestly thought, that Bordeaux had given approval, but instead hadn't.
So to save face I ended up just continuing going to war with Spain cutting ties unfortunately not getting the jump on Baleares I hoped and unfortunately also ruining my reputation as someone who would not break their deal with Spain from then on being jaded by what I had done. And this all happened because of Meme and his "success" in nuking Spanish Italian talks.
Anyway if you read this far you are crazy but great video y'all continue the good work!!
@@BobZeBuilder
Oh, that makes way more sense seeing your internal perspective. Hannah here I had an itch that the HBE was going to attack soon and knew a two front war would doom us. Lol, it's funny how bad both of our in game personas clashed when we were internally thinking protect italy 🤭
Also it's even funnier that Bordo's expansion to winning the game ended up including 0 spanish centers and spain didn't even try to take a center from them from then on
@@BobZeBuilderI am crazy. That's quite the situation to be in.
2:20:20
Freiburg here again.
So I almost immediately saw Nuremberg and Wilno’s plan, because as Ezio said, they double-checked with each other way too much. And I wanted that dot, so I couldn’t have anyone else realize that they were doing that, or at least anyone relevant. So during the discussions, when Ezio was veeeery subtly pointing it out, I was screaming in my void: “No, Ezio, shut up, you’re going to ruin it all!” To counter this, I responded to all the accusations with: “Nuremberg? Stabbing? That’s crazy! He’s a loyal wheel member. The only traitor is Trieste, and he’s the one we need to focus on.” So basically being as hypocritical as possible, and trying to reinforce people’s trust in him.
And it somehow worked, to my great amazement and satisfaction.
Nuremberg here, I fully assumed I was gonna get got, if not you, someone else.
@@phoenixfire940there’ll definitely be some interesting things to say on this subject in the next video, but I won’t spoil anything for ppl now.
Wow well played. From what I've heard, you're pretty good at swaying ppl to do what benefits you.
Finland/Umea perspective on the Eastern front
There were 3 main alliances in the east we had to deal with
Turtles - (Russia)
Caucuses (Powers east of the Black Sea)
HBE (Balkas)
After Ark joined the Vikings and supported me (Umea) into Nov (who was a Turtle) the Turtles collapsed and joined the Caucuses making two main super-alliances.
HBE and Caucuses were warring on this second turn, and the HBE made a request for my unit in Nov to tap Moscow so it couldn't support hold Bakchisary so HBE could take it. This was under the assumption HBE and Vikings would have a long term alliance and we'd get Moscow next turn. I initially was unable to agree to it because I wanted my unit to double back towards Scandinavia to prevent Ezio from being able to stab. When I declined, HBE and the Caucuses elected to make an alliance instead since they couldn't gain ground on each other easily. I obviously didn't want this so I agreed to hit Moscow after all with the idea Ark went to Kola to prevent Ezio from stabbing (instead of my unit). That explains our moves and why Ark didn't enter behind Nov immediately. Although this all happened within the last few minutes of the turn.
This caused a lot of drama that is too nuanced to go into, but the HBE had half the people really upset about the last minute change in moves and a lot of pissed people. This almost tore up the HBE alliance so the player Constantinople essentially told everyone to screw off, he's taking charge and becoming dictator. He kicked Jedisan player out of the HBE so he could get the centre and everyone just mostly agreed. (Jedi knew he was dead at that point so did a meme order). He also re-established the alliance with Caucuses creating the Holy Turtle Alliance which was everyone. I was very upset that HBE broke the deal and made peace with Caucuses anyway and got pissed but there was nothing I could do.
Immediately next turn, the Golden Horde stabs the Caucuses though and the Holy Turtle Alliance splinters, so Constantinople decides to go back to just being HBE with Georgia and Moscow being temporary allies. In this video, Stockholm misses the part where the Eastern Vikings almost ally with the Golden Horde here because he was offering support into Moscow that year which was needed for us because we had just been attacked by the Commonwealth and needed an immediate build this year. HBE (currently lead by Constantinople) realize this and immediately counters saying we can enter Moscow the immediate turn, (not just by the end of the year) which is why Moscow leaves the centre immediately at risk of death. So the alliance between HBE and Vikings are back on and that's when I start going against the Golden Horde. Less important but I suggest a move set in the last hour that guarantees Golden Horde stays at 3 when their initial moveset gave a 50/50 Khan makes it to 4. This resulted in yet another last minute switch of moves that I pressure which causes many of the HBE members to resent me and the Vikings in general which does become important later since the HBE eventually switch to having elections of emperors and we never knew if a Pro or Anti-Viking member would be elected the next year.
This moveset I spring on them does save Moscow's life (which I point out so it's more awkward for them to decline even though many were probably hoping Moscow would die) and it also moved all of the Golden Horde units south to survive. Ark/Moscow end up developing a trusting friendship here which definitely plays a role later, and Ark becomes much less keen on growing south which was my original plan for him.
i hunger for part 3 already
This has turned into my favourite series so far. It's just that chaotic.
Ezio the Bumblesbane
I wish Flare gave me that title. Would have been sick.
-Ezio
Ugh, they could have easily avoided the diplomatic incident by just saying "the french fries are representing french/benelux cooperation" because french fries are from belgium.
Exactly
the wild thing about Luxembourg rn is that unless Paris and Strasbourg don't work together next fall it has guaranteed 4 centers, and even if they do end up working together it'll still have 3 centers as well
hey tangier/porto here! for all the shenanigans surrounding negotiations in morocco at 1:46:00 ish, through the entirety of the game after spring 01, i felt as though i was at the mercy of rabat kind of always. so, when he stabbed, i had to stay on as good of terms with rabat as possible so he would follow through with his plan to let me into lisbon.
as for marrakech, they weren’t really demanding to take tangier in a swap (unless i’m misremembering). rabat actually offered marrakech to take tangier temporarily to deal with north africa stuff.
at 1:56:30 ish, my move into lisbon was agreed. and while i did fully know about rabat moving into sea of azores, i was happy for it to happen simply bc it gives rabat a guaranteed azores dot rather than a 50/50 portuguese dot of mine.
- Honestly I didn't think captain meme was gonna survive.
- You'd think the French aliance would be imposible with Paris being pro-wheel and Bordeaux being anti-wheel. But somehow it only makes it have more allies, while being able to concentrate purely on Spain.
- The vikings are doing so good, awesome! Can't wait to see how they will handle the 3 center Oslo that just backstabbed them.
- If I was Oslo, I would ally with Ireland to get the two dots bordering the Norwegian sea.
- Seems like the marocco alliance is falling apart, or atleast the guy who had 3 dots.
- Meanwhile Salt just being a rat. Doubt he'll survive till next year.
"Loyal opposition" is a great tactic for drawing in new alliances. Make them think they can affect the outcome of your internal deliberations, and they'll court your favor. Represent both sides, but side with neither. It's even better than playing both sides.
A unit icon causing a diplomaric incident is the most realistic part of the video
Well, I think I’ve watched enough videos, congratulations Meme and Ezio, I’m now into Diplomacy. You have done this.
This video is like asking someone "how did your LARP go?".
Nuremberg here, I am the master of stealth, no one ever suspected anything. I am basically invisible.
Also, yes I saw your thing, I assumed everyone saw it, but no one could really do anything about it.
Oh. I thought that if you saw it, and you knew they saw it, you'd know that people saw your attempted stab and would therefore change your moves.
RIP.
-Ezio
@@DiploStrats oh no definitely not. I'm a very committed person. Plus wilno was saying a bunch of stuff that seemed like they were gonna change the plan
Hello Rostock here
I was a part of the wheel untill sometime in the last covered year the wheel kicked me out to not figth a war against the commonwealth. Then the vikings attacked, but before that i went to kiel becuse i did not know what to do and was still at war with utretch.
Later i had a chooise to make between joining the vikings and the commonwealth. As i was not very active in press i did not know about either copenhagen dying before the phase was over or the plan to take kiel untill i discussed which side to take with utretch and utretch told it to me. This made me now a member of the commonwealth but was considering joining the vikings.
Man, at this point of the game, your and Bremen's situation is pretty bad.
- The vikings plan to kill you
- The wheel has abandoned you
- The commonwealth is too busy fighting prussia/the vikings and is a bit too far from you
- and Luxembourg couldn't care less.
@@BS-bd4xo yes that was basicly the situation i was in at the time. But the commonwealth was much better than nothing
Quality of life suggestion:
With non-backstabr-like maps (like Imperial, Hellenic, etc) you could put a little box as an overlay in one of the top corners, where one can quickly check which turn it is right now (like Spring 04, Winter 06, etc).
I watch your vids on my 2nd monitor, and just checking it by a quick look would be SO good :D
I love how you pronounce Utrecht more or less correctly but Nantes is somehow too difficult :D
Britain was the wheel the wheel tried to be LOL
The Bumble religion and the Bumble Pope Wars mirror actual history a little *too* much.
Lux: "Bringing Lux and Stras into the Greater France alliance". I was in the French alliance from the beginning. We were the three talking French vs the 3 silent French. And we had great rapport, I love it. But then Bordeaux is replaced.
New Bordeaux had a funny philosophy of being best friends with everybody (except Spain). I pointed out that you can't really be best friends with everybody. Now, the fact that I wasn't a yes-man to Bordeaux obviously meant that I wasn't his friend, was very mean and maybe hostile.
I liked Paris. But then he started making moves unnecessarily threatening to me. I went "bro wtf just move to Orleans or Switz, I have one unit and am very scared". Paris replied: "bro why are you so worried, I haven't stab you so far, haven't I?" Well since I couldn't really do much against Paris and Bordeaux who were on 4 dots between them, I had no choice but to trust Paris.
I also kind of greenlit the Nantes replacement surgery, because Nantes was still very quiet, and well honestly I just don't like silent players too much. I was urging Paris to take Nantes for himself, but he refused. A generous soul. And I mean what harm can Ghent do to me from Nantes, amiright?
I didn't ask Stras to not take Lux. It was later when I argued he should maybe postpone taking his dues. I needed somebody to bounce Ghent with me, but Kiel refused, which was annoying and somewhat threatening (foreshadowing). So we talked with Stras, and he was like: "Hey, I can bounce you, no problem". A generous, generous soul. For this act of charity, I pledged at this point to protect Stras from whoever may dot him. Let's hope this brilliant friendship survives hell and high waters of the late game.
UDP: Yeah, I picked it up after the fries incident that Bordeaux needs to be unashamedly flattered. and that's the key. But also I didn't really care about Bordeaux too much, because he was hell-bent on the Spanish crusade. I was trading away Lux, so there would be less tension with Paris. I was planning on doing whatever in the north, I really wanted to play with some fleets. I mean me and Bor have nothing to compete over, so as long as we're heading into the opposite directions, we should be super solid, right? There are no reasons for us to beef, right?
Surely Stras will not die in the next year.
1:06:00
Meme: I think Narva was proven right
But also Ezio was proven left.
1:16:11
Trieste did in one stab what took the real Italians almost half a century, unify Italy
defending ireland and reyk with my life was the most stressful and most fun i’ve had in awhile
Rostock here
You migth wonder:
Rostock why did you not go to kiel when it could have made you get a sc.
Well I forgot. I was not very active but when kiel asked me to do that i said yes and put it in my orders.
10 minutes before deadline i checked my orders and was like:
What why am i doing that I dont want to stab kiel. And as noone said anything to my message i decided to just support hold bburg. The others understood it was a mistake so the let it slide.
I am a very good diplomacy player(for legal reasons that was a joke)
50:49 What I can recall from press, it was pushed by Sarajevo, who were afraid of Italians getting two units on them
Otranto and Croatia*
I absolutely love this! Love the commentaries!
So far I think the main lesson of this game is that if you’re in an alliance with Ezio, listen to what he says.
Well, in this viking alliance specifically yea. Most of the time I'm on a more even footing with my allies, and they don't enter the alliance saying "yes I'll do whatever you tell me to do".
The Oxfiles Part 2:
Huh! We actually managed to live another video :) Sorry if my moves got a bit boring here but thats what it took to survive. My thoughts on what was happening in Britain here come in 3 parts:
1. Dark Bumblism! Thats right, what this board needed was more religious sectarianism. Although I was not originally a Bumble, I had converted in year 1 in order to work with Edinburgh. However, coming off the many betrayals of the last video, I needed to pick a side and pick it hard, so I declared war, in all caps like a mad prophet, against my fellow Bumble Edinburgh. Unlike Ezio and Meme, I had good relations to all the Bumble popes and so was never formally excomunicated, but Edinburgh's opinion that I was never a true Bumble was strengthened by my actions. Nevertheless, the power of confident assertion and made up memes is powerful so I just kinda declared that its what the original Bumble would've wanted and rolled with it (and started getting supporters too). The most important of those supporters was Oslo who helped keep me alive by retreating the wrong direction. My Dark Bumblism strategy really shouldn't have worked, I expected someone to cover Edinburgh when I went North, gifting Oxford to Wessex in the name of peace, but somehow it all worked out and I survived. I feel like this video did nicely capture who I was working with and why. However, you may have noticed that they alluded to Britain being more unified than usual, whats up with that? Well after begining my path as a new authority on Bumblism,
2. The First Great British Alliance. After Edinburgh flipped, and I had given Oxford to Wessex, all of Britain suddenly seemed to be working together, and so Ireland, facing viking anger, decided we should form an alliance together. We're finally playing well...? The first GBA fell apart imediately after forming because Edinburgh didnt cover Plymouth and so Azores got in. Back to just Wessex and Oxford being friends, fighting Edinburgh, Ireland, and all sorts of others. Its important to note though that like Meme said, Wessex's really was more of a normal diplomacy player who wanted alliances. Foreshadowing for next video and the next Oxford files? Or does their different vibes not matter? Anyways another important vibes thing is that is why Britain never got along with Ezio or the vikings. This is just conjecture, but I suspect that his very rational and demanding play style rubbed Edinburgh the wrong way as the Isles was more balance of power, stab for stabs sake, and having fun oriented. Not to mention we were building relations with Rabat and Azores who Ezio intentionally annoyed. Vibes really matter, whether it be made up alliances, religions, joking wars, of even
3)The Plymouth Curse. Anyone noticed that the first place a unit/player was killed on the entire map was in Plymouth? And no one power has controlled Plymouth for longer than a year? (Plymouth, London, Edinburgh, Azores so far). Thats pretty scary and odd, I wonder who will end up in that cursed province next? And will Azores really be able to survive as a foreigner on the most hostile part of the very hostile and chaotic British Isles?
We'll have to find out in the next video and comment of the OxFiles 😉
Oooo spooky Plymouth
Probabilistic strategies are often optimal for exactly this reason: if you know what strategy your opponent was using, you can often counter it even from a generally lost position
Ezio getting mad that Edinburgh didn't want to work with them feels strange, it feels understandable the they wouldn't want to help them set up against Ireland, being that also allows them to turn on Edinburgh if they don't continue to do what they say.
1:15:50 But they didn't.
As Venice, I was a loyal wheel member.
I think I helped defeat the Italians, but I don't really know. I died year 1 or 2 of the stab.
33:44 What encrypted message? There was a steganographically hidden message, but no encryption was used.
2:07:47 Madrid's optimal strategy is to move to A Coruna 100% of the time, and by that logic, Paris's optimal strategy is to convoy to Navarre 100% of the time, and then Meme's optimal is to convoy Navarre 100% of the time, and Azores's best strategy is to go to Ghent! Edit: NVM about Ghent, but this is an interesting example of game theory.
Nice video, will keep watching. This is interesting.
Calling Nantes - Nan-Tes is wild 😅
Keep up the good work though
French fries: Belgian
Croissant: Viannese
36:00 spring 1643 retreats and clean map
50:10 autumn 1643 movement
1:13:00 autumn 1643 retreats
1:28:45 winter 1643 builds
1:49:00 spring 1644 movement
2:01:20 clean map
2:24:00 autumn 1644 movement
2:40:50 autumn 1644 retreats
Really love your content! Keep up the incredible job!
Glad you enjoy it!
-Ezio
I don't know what the exact rules were, but I think I could make the argument that writing a message where the first character of each word is the hidden message is technically not encryption but instead is steganography.
1:01:02
I think Edin decided to help me rather than vikings because we saw if Ireland fell, Britain was going to be surrounded by vikings we wouldn't have a chance to fight back against, and I had previously stayed true to our DMZ in Irish sea, allowing both of us to have reliable allies still within the chaotic Britain explosions. I think Edinburgh's decision to help me was so we just wouldn't be surrounded that year, esp hearing news that Azores wanted to come north at that time as well. It was a "hey, lets not let these outsiders kill us, we should be able to kill each other not them!"
Yeah, not to mention we’re homies ❤
@@thedarklizard9725”britain will never be more united than now” little do they know🙄🙄
@@MaxIsEast no spoilers 🤫
Ionian Listening Post, reporting in.
Dip you've got to be a harder negotiator with stuff like Nantes and proposing a solution that's 3/4 likely to kill you isn't a good solution.
Here's how I see it:
- You convoy, you die.
- You refuse to convoy, you die.
- The French alliance has 4 armies and 0 navies, they require your navy.
- The French alliance wont take easy dots for navies despite badly needing them.
- The French are demanding you suicide on their behalf for their selfish gain, for no reason.
When a player says to you that you 'have to do it' because you're a 'vassal' or because they saved you or whatever you can point out to them that no one in their right mind would suicide for nothing or for their savior, one bullet is as good as another. But you can also argue that any vassal truly worthy of such will recall that a vassal does what is in the _best interest_ of the sovereign, even when that would contradict them; Where the fuck are they getting a navy from if they lose you? They've got 4 armies and Marseille can't get any builds at all this turn while Paris can at best build yet another army he can't send anywhere, and it's going to be 2 fucking years out of an 8 year game, at best, to get a single naval unit between them. Paris has already shown he's not willing to take dots from other easy targets like Lux and Stras - and no I don't count the wheel as an alliance, they're all spinning their wheels uselessly - which just leaves Spain as the only route for what will be 5 motherfucking armies trying to fit through a 2 army gap, and it'll cost them 3+ turns just to get into Spain, never mind to fight the war.
Drill into their heads the absolute stupidity of their behavior, "If you don't cooperate, we'll kill you!" They say? They'll kill you if you DO cooperate, you only stand to lose no matter what you do so _they_ are the ones required to make it worth it to because _they_ need _you_. Don't just get passive because of the precariousness of the situation, make demands out of them and if they don't like it, tough shit, they bought the problem and you're the one with leverage. They'll feel that they're not getting much use out of a single fleet in the Atlantic and they'd really like an army in A Coruna, but even just holding that fleet in Nantes till the other fleet moves (or at least pretending) would be better than being stuck without any fleet options for 2+ years. Mind, I agree there's not much you can do to help in their war efforts no matter what you do and it'd be hard to argue it from that perspective, but killing you would cost them more than keeping you around, so you've got to press that hard. You've got to know your worth.
At some point you've gotta say what you've gotta say. It's possible Meme could have pushed for a harder deal, but sometimes that'll get you killed/get your overlord to attack you. Maybe he could have gotten something better, more more likely he'd have died by arguing against the convoy. What else did he offer them?
-Ezio
@@DiploStrats Yeah, I'm surprised it worked out well enough for him to not die, but he was generally screwed by his neighbors the whole game as I see it. By the time he was negotiating for his life for the third time I'd have been sick of it, especially when being made to make bad decisions. I really think Lux and what was left of the wheel were better options overall given the disorganization, but there was almost no salvaging it even if he'd had all those units I think.
I bring it up more because I've seen this pattern a few times with him and he loses opportunities to analysis paralysis. Often I get why, he gets some unenviable situations, but sometimes he overestimates the danger and I feel this was a good example of it because he could turn it into leverage. I mean he's worried what people will think for what he says and does but half his neighbors just lie and take provinces and everyone else is cool with it, at least as it appears from the commentary.
1:48:48 I belive I was on the italian side at this point (Hannah/Tunis). I forget if this is after I bounced a spanish move to keep sardinia safe yet but I was very much pro cairo and italy since I needed them onside to survive the stab from Marrakesh (they had said they were moving to rif to support hold me against spain and then accepted support to attack me last turn). So yeah, always in survival mode and I don't think I was part of the ittalian alliance yet but I was very much pitching the danger that a spanish/marrakech alliance posed to cairo and italy and that them taking my center would make their situation far worse (which was true)
hello everyone, arkhangelsk here again; stopping by to chronicle whatever stories and perspectives i have to say about what i did in these years! i was definitely a lot more involved in 43-44 than 42, so i actually have a lot more to say. also, i've come to realize that the further i go into this, the more it dawns on me the sheer amount of mistakes and goof ups that i made all around in virtually every turn. there's definitely a world where i could've done things a little differently and thought it over a little more that ended up better for me, but here we are, so let's talk about it.
firstly, before i begin with the meat, it's important to know that despite what everyone ended up thinking, *i never fully considered myself a full member of the vikings, but rather as a viking CORROBERATOR.* keep this in mind, as it WILL affect a lot of how i thought and how i entered situations. of course, i obviously never got around to correcting anyone on this, but i can say that it definitely worked enough in my favour to help me survive and grow enough till the 'berta bros formed (coming soon youll find out what this is later). as it turns out, i probably should have left hints in my messages more about my nonconformity with the vikings, as it definitely could have led to a much different game if i had gotten converted by, say, the commonwealth.
anyways, to begin, with ezio's mayormaynothavebeenastab of helsingfors and tribunal afterward, i do believe that i ended up arguing against kicking him out of the vikings, due to the fact that i really didn't want them to break up and disintegrate this early. despite me personally thinking ezio shouldn't have gotten kicked out of the vikings, it still really left a bad mark on me, causing me to pretty much distrust him for the next year, something which would extend to the rest of the entire game with the situation that happened in w44 (which will be talked about in part 3 man i really cant wait for this lol). this ended up leading me to eventually move to kola to prevent a potential stab on umea, something which i think was probably the only viable move i could have made that turn, as i believe moving to vologda would have been an act of aggression against moscow and the caucasus, which would likely cause growing south to be a much bigger issue than it did turn out to be. it's probably around here where i start growing closer with umea, as it did feel like they would be the only power in the area that could stand a chance of defeating ezio if civil war broke out in the vikings. moving on to f44, i think that umea's choice of moving out of novgorod to give me the center turned out to be a great move, as with the climate of the entire board this early on in the game and moving all the way even until about year 6 or so, you do NOT want to grow too much too quickly. doing so **will** end up having a coalition rallied against you under paranoia and will kill you, as (spoilers) would end up being seen with rabat, astrakhan, luxembourg, and probably more i can't remember. this stigma that i noticed earlier on definitely contributed to why i so eagerly and readily accepted loaning my home center to trondheim. moving on, with how me and umea were talking about the east, i had more anticipated for umea to move to kursk rather than smolensk, as i was anticipating for the southern push to be greater. either way, my move here was self explanatory.
now, i think it's time to continue. with the coalition eventually being assembled against the khan in the east with the caucasus and hbe, i would end up getting involved as i was a convenient unit that could backfill moscow and push them south to help destroy them. arkhangelsk-vologda, in response, ended up being an ensurance move to make sure that i got guaranteed moscow in the case something went awry in the south. i would imagine most of my press this phase was with the coalition on how to defeat the khan. onto f44, here i think i end up making one of my worst move sequences, with vologda-novgorod and moscow s don-astrakhan. i ended up getting offered to be supported into astrakhan by moscow instead earlier on in exchange for me keeping them alive in moscow, although i foolishly ended up denying it, citing the fact that i didn't want a center disconnected from my core. this was a huge mistake. should i have taken that deal, i would've had an insane amount of leverage over moscow and could've taken moscow for free while forcing them south to keep them alive. i should also note around now that i definitely start growing friendly with moscow, something which will absolutely come in play later on. at times, it did completely feel like a duty of mine to keep moscow alive at all costs, because i needed to ensure good relations with the caucasus. not that it ended up mattering in the end, though...
but still, at this point, it has become obvious that the khan will die within a few years. with my current relations with the caucasus going smoothly, good relations with the hbe, and my insistence of staying out of poland, i'm definitely running out of places to expand. that will have to come next part though. in the meantime, the thoughts did come over my head that i should defect and instead ally with the khan, as a pseudo-juggernaut in the east could have gone extremely far, and i definitely would have been open to it. however, that never ended up getting past the idea phase, something which i think could've gone further if the khan tried really looking for allies, something which i think the lack of ended up leading to his eventual demise. what was i talking about before again? oh yeah, right, so i really should have ended up being supported into astrakhan instead of moscow, as another pro from that would have been that i could have potentially stabbed them, with them knowing full well that i was basically taking them hostage if moscow didn't get a center in circassia or somewhere. but yet, here we are. i ended up supporting instead, and i for some reason move vologda to novgorod instead of volga, which i think could have definitely shifted the pressure way more onto the south if i ended up supporting moscow to astrakhan, although i ended up settling on the useless positioning move to novgorod. note this unit, by the way. it's going to move back and forth and do absolutely nothing the entire game, something which i definitely could have prevented although didn't. in case you're wondering now, yes, i eventually end up making even worse mistakes in future turns.
finally, with the east all settled out, the west becomes a bigger problem, because here, with oslo's stab, things are going to get extremely spicy in the next winter. but you'll have to wait for that :)
anyways, this was great, if anyone has any questions they can ask here, i definitely missed a lot and probably also have a bunch of inaccuracies in this comment, i might fix them and/or add addemums if i need later, but i think i'm satisfied now that i'm done. more to come soon, can't wait for part 3!
"What's that series..."
It's The Umbrella Academy (on Netflix, based on the comic book series)
Funnily enough me (Rabat) going into Tangier wasn't really meant as a stab - I came up with an idea to get Marrakech to 3 SCs next year if he got into Tunis... I just somehow missed I could do the same move (support him into Caneries) with my original 2 SCs. Also Azores wasn't a stab 😮💨
Azores here. You def stabbed me.
@@sirepic5763 Berbers here, I saw them as both being stabs
tangier/porto here, taking azores was absolutely a stab yeah. and i did really think you stabbed me in tangier, but i felt i needed to stay friendly with you. which worked! and was great!
anyway looking forward to seeing how meme esp viewed later shenanigans between us :)
Love this series.
I pray to myself for myself 😂
Great fun to listen to
Poor rabat though, never appease when you got into a potential advantage as you will be crushed 😅
hi! I'm Cairo! (any more comments I post will be replies to this)
The HBE primarily used Elm early on, and switched to Alder later in the game
(these are from memory, so they might be wrong, but I'm sure about this one)
Rabat from my perspective at some point in the near future to the point in the video
annoying : "Cairo will take Tunis with their two units"
annoying : "Cairo is going to take Tunis"
annoying : "taking Tunis isn't worth it this turn, my allies will take Cairo if I do" - me "Cairo probably takes tunis" - Rabat
(also I'm HBE at this point, I've been closely allied to them from the start, but at this point, I'm pretty sure I'm a full member)
Berbers here, sorry ahead of time for what unfolds in the next video, but you were cool I wish we could have worked more together
@@prequelNjoyer for me, the problem with working together was that I was pretty sure it would always end up in your favour.
spoiler wall
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you ended up being an agent of chaos, and chaotic you were! half the time, nobody knew what you would do. This cost me my game, but I forgive you
@@c4ndl326 I get that, and respect your game. I didn't talk too much about it in my void because I only started using it after the first couple years, but in the first year I felt that my neighbors had forged alliances and left me out. Morocco to my left and Tunis, Tripoli, and you to the right. This proved to be wrong, but in that year I had said to both sides that I wanted to work with them and planned to not attack them. In my head I wanted to get to 2 scs by any means and would stab whoever I could to get there.
From here I played nice because Tunis kept pushing for everybody to punish Africa stabbers. This is why I bounced and sat still most of the first two years (but would have 100% moved into Tunis like you took Tripoli if Tunis was moving, so I agree with your strategy there). After that I took a bit more of an aggressive stance by moving to Chaamba when I felt that Marrakech was telling the truth and leaving (when they moved to Rif) which in hindsight was probably more trusting than I should have been and almost killed me.
From there that is why i tried to push for me getting Tripoli because I saw Morocco growing and knew I would be next. When there was not enough support for me getting it and Morocco openly admitting that I would be next was when I decided to defend Berbers than to risk taking Tripoli (especially because if I asked for support into Tripoli publicly I knew Marrakech would have just walked into Berbers.
By that point I doubled down on helping Tunis defend because at that point if an army was in Tunis against me I would be unable to defend myself, also why I offered support for a fleet into Tunis (which was not taken). I would have willingly sold Tunis or anybody else down river if I got a dot out of it and thought I could keep it.
(Spoiler wall)
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I am sorry that you were the target and getting to 2 was why I immediately tried to stab Tunis for Tripoli after supporting them in.
53:13 One of my proudest moments of this game (I am Berbers)
Honestly the encoded message I think is more ok to be allowed as if you see happen once you are more likely to keep an eye out for it later. Having someone specifically keep track of messages will help a lot with the encoded messages.
spoiler break
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when the bene alliance was scattered you should have renamed your alliance to the sea beggars! taking the name of the first dutch rebels against spanish rule of the netherlands who skulked around in the north sea before securing their first footholds on land
I’m near the end… invite Lux again? Insanity.
This got me interested to try out diplomacy myself, thank you very much!
However... does anyone have tips for how to get into the game in the first place? Kinda lost here :)
Join our discord and hop in a game! We have tons of games ongoing for new players who are getting into the game.
French Fries aren't even French, that is the worst part. It is the most american thing ever, because it is American soldiers that called them that when they were in the French speaking part of Belgium (Wallonia). They are actually Belgium fries and are referred to as that on the continent (although they are mostly just called fries, or friet, or frites, or something along those lines, depending on the language).
Only an hour and 45mins in so far but Ezio is funny. One phase he is thinking maybe becoming the bumble pope and to call a crusade against all non-bumble's. And the next it's "hehe, just killed another bumble for the score sheet" 😂😂
Also when is Madrid gonna stab someone? Literally the only army on Iberia and his only path to expansion Iberia (as of now).
Overall so far, it's kinda funny knowing most of the lobby is diplostrat viewers and yet after all the videos we have watched yall analyze us viewers are still making "noob" moves and confusing alliance chains, or keeping an alliance instead of taking 2 easy dots and making an alliance elsewhere. To me there seems to be a real lack of "trying to win" and there's more let's wait around in an alliance hug box until I get stabbed and lose. Especially since there is only 16 moves right? Since the game ends in 08...
I love this channel, I hope yall become much more successful. If yallre ever in a position to make some “See dot, take dot” merch plz plz plz post it. It’s the best thing ever.
Also really excited to see how this ends
When will part 3 be out?
Hype.
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOO
1 view 1 minute, dead channel
rip, time to pivot to tiktok
@@DiploStrats better split this video into 161 1 minute parts
@@DiploStrats Tiktok's length limit would've been a great multipart series "Biggest Diplomacy Game. Turn 0 Part 3690"