5D Diplomacy (100% GUARANTEE NO BAMBOOZLE)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- I finally learnt how to program clicking stuff.
Source code and setup instructions: github.com/Oli...
5D Diplomacy Discord server: / discord
My Diplomacy video: • Diplomacy: The Game of...
My 5D Chess video: • 5D Chess With Multiver...
My original 5D Diplomacy With Multiverse Time Travel prototype: • 5D Diplomacy With Mult...
Special thanks to CaptainMeme from DiploStrats:
/ @diplostrats
Special thanks to Lady Razor from The Diplomats/The Diplomacy Briefing:
www.thediploma...
www.diplomacyb...
I think the hardest part of this game is still finding 6 other people to play diplomacy with.
Find other versions of yourself. Time travel makes anything possible.
We actually did it about 4 years ago, on vacation in Maine.
It was our first vacation all on our own, as adults - and we had enough people who knew the game, and time to complete full 7-person diplomacy.
My brother won, as Austria. It was brutal, hilarious, and we haven't played since.
30:57 did you invent Xen from half-life? Lol
We played it in History Class in the last lesson before the summer break, that was one of the most fun lessons I ever had
I am an officer for my University's Board Gaming and Roleplaying society. There are over 300 memebers active that show up weekly to play. I still struggle to find Diplomacy players consistently.
Bro turned a WW1 simulation into a Red Alert simulation.
If they'd continued the red alert series I would absolutely have loved to see a nuclear WW1 RTS.
Yes, the Terminator Gambit is back baby
@@st0ox Franz Ferdinand Gambit.
@@SupersuMC xD but there is the restriction that you cannot move back to turn 0
Aww hell yeah, no anti-psychotics in existence can solve whatever mind melting twister this is about to be.
valefisk should play this
yeah he should play this idk why nobody is asking for this
Looking forward to an in-depth analysis of that game.
Valefisk SHOULD play this
Only if everyone gets to hear you both tear your skills in half analyzing the fucked up shit they do
Valerisk should be this
The drawing on the title screen is so delightful, it really feels like something that would adorn the outside of a box for the long awaited sequel to the beloved game Diplomacy. A perfect gift for your kids for Christmas 1963.
I think you meant to say "a gift for your parents or grandparents". 😉
I have been reading the foundation and I think this "game" is how psychohistory starts in our timeline.
Whats that
I also read Foundation due to this channel lol
@@Т1000-м1и foundation is a series of books by Isaac Asimov, and in these books pyschohistory is a way of mathematically calculating the future of society using statistics and psychology
@@Т1000-м1и Foundations is a series of sci-fi books about a galaxy-spanning empire, or more specifically about how this one psychologist realized that sufficiently-large populations (like that of the galaxy) become predictable due to a kind statistical surety; "if it is possible to take this action, someone in the 20 billion living there will do it" sort of thing.
So he predicted the entire galactic future, discovering that the galactic empire would collapse within his lifetime. Since this is an unavoidable certainty, he sets up a foundation (hence the name of the series) intended to reduce the length of the "dark age" in between the fall of the empire and the rise of the new one several hundred years in the future.
They made a live-action show about it a few years back that was ok as a tv show but totally missed the point of Psychohistory as a concept. The books are about how forces of culture and ideology have a kind of momentum to them that is beyond the power of any specific person to overcome, and when these cultural rivers hit each other it is possible to predict how they will react to each other. Meanwhile the TV show focuses on the idea of specific people who are special being able to leverage their specialness to move nations. :P
Just don't tell Valefisk about 5D Diplomacy.
*EDIT:* I swear I didn't watch up until 2:55 before making this comment 😭
Vale would absolutely love this, the video would be so good :)
He's taking notes
Biggest self report of all time xD
We were all thinking it
That last plot twist at the end was delightful. It's a fascinating mechanic, that you can send units arbitrarily far back in time, but you need to start up the "time machine" at the destination time in advance to receive them. Reminds me a bit of Primer, I think?
Same concept as edge of tomorrow. Need to start it now or never
I still don't fully understand what's going on (I think because I'm bad at convoys in normal diplomacy). So a "normal" convoy targets a troop on an adjacent coastline and moves them to another adjacent coastline. That would imply that the multiverse equivalent would be moving a troop from one turn in the future to one turn in the past (as shown in the video). But why does he set up the failed convoy in 1903? Is that also part of the maneuver? Because if the 1903 convoy isn't necessary, then why does the 'ghost board' allow for you to pick an arbitrary board rather than restricting you to one turn in the future?
I'll probably end up re-asking this question once I get around to joining the Discord but I am still curious if anybody here has the answer.
@@Trip-x1i In Diplomacy, a convoyed army can leapfrog any number of convoying fleets in a chain to its destination. So you can technically convoy huge distances (e.g. St Petersburg to Syria) as long as you have an unbroken chain of convoying fleets between them.
The Jurassic convoy in 5D Dip is the same concept - you can travel arbitrarily far back in time as long as you have an unbroken chain of convoying fleets to that destination.
@@Trip-x1i Additionally to what @DiploStrats said, each of those convoys needs to have the correct order (move Army from Edbinborough in Fall 1904 back to Norway in whatever it was) for it to succeed. I think it's cool, but probably unusable in play: you need to be able to correctly chain things over multiple rounds, have the ships and the army in the correct positions at the correct time, and you are also telegraphing your orders many years in advance to your opponents just to move one army unit back in time to create a single timeline. Probably not worth it, but definitely cool.
@@Naeddyr the telegraphing might be part of the appeal though: It's unlikely to actually succeed, but you are effectively threatening this stuff potentially a long time ahead, which may require people to react to it accordingly?
I can't wait for 5D checkers and 5D counter strike
5D checkers uses all the squares.
5D Counter strike could be:
- one team must win set number of rounds
- player actions are recorded each round
- players can go back in time before the start of another round, and play the round again with each Player's set movement and actions from previous round, with the addition of the time travelling player. They can change the outcome of a round now.
- you can go as many rounds in the past as you like
I hope this makes sense?? Check out Quantum Leauge I'm thinking something like that
I have a different idea for 5d counter-strike:
-Each team must win a certain number of rounds to win
-Every round, each team can send any amount of weapons to a round in the past at a cost, creating a new timeline
-However, each weapon, the amount of rounds it was sent back in, and if it jumped timelines affects the cost of time travel
-There's no limit on how many rounds a timeline has
-At the start of each round, alternating teams will chose what timeline/round to start the round in (you can play a round you played before, even if there's no time traveled weapons, this will cause a new timeline)
-At the start of each round, every player will have the weapons they had last round in the timeline, and any time traveled weapons
@@Ryann9 I like this one too!
@@flamingcow5916I miss quantum league, man
It has begun
Valefisk should play this
All jokes aside, this was insanely fun to play during the playtest (despite the crash) and I hope to be able to play more of it.
No, it would distract him from the North African campaign
@@chillyavian7718 5d North African Campaign?
@@vex3488 unholy massive and time consuming board game, Vale’s been playing it for the last few years. I’d say he’s 1/3 of the way done.
@@vex3488 please god no
Game of the year 10/10 would lobotomise myself again
At the same time, the rule for +1 maximum timeline in 5D chess is completely arbitrary and not an extension of chess rules. The equivalent in 5D Diplomacy doesn't need to be a natural extension of Diplomacy rules.
One possible, but not super effective, way to reduce the number of timelines would be to make it so that if two boards have the exact same starting state (same season, same year, same units and positions, and same supply centre ownership, but not the same moves (although only at most one of the two boards could have moves based on how this works)) they merge into one timeline. This would probably happen very rarely naturally, but it would give players the ability to destroy timelines and so if players feel like there are too many they could cooperate to get rid of some. I doubt this would fully solve the problem, but it would probably help slightly. This could either be done by doing moves on two different boards that end up with the results being identical, or doing moves on a board that create a result identical to a board that already exists on another timeline.
The mad lad did it!
I watched this before going to bed and woke up with a single, terrible thought: 5D Fire Emblem
that's just Awakening if the dragon gods decided one time trip wasn't enough
5D Fire Emblem would be its own can of worms considering that a single Fire Emblem war is divided into several different maps, though it could be achieved on a larger FE4 style map with multiple seize points and castles. The other issue would be making Fire Emblem work in an online setting and/or programming the enemy AI to react to time travel
"I'm afraid your time has finally run out, Archy."
"I beg to differ, Her Kaiser. In fact my timelines have just begun."
Not the Jurassic convoy! XD
Just an idea because you mentioned wanting to limit timelines while keeping the game as a faithful generalization to diplomacy: you could limit number of timelines to the number of supply centers owned by all players (such that any player could aim for creating a new timeline, and resulting in a maximum of 7 x 19 = 119 timelines) or limiting the number of timelines to the number of supply centers owned by the player with the most supply centers (ie 17).
For a lore reason, perhaps over the course of WW2 multiversal time travel technology is developed and ‘supplied’ by the supply centers
This is what the internet was made for
My brain is not ready for this
same
Holy shit, I love this. The dedication, me checking into this channel every 6 months and wondering if this project would ever come back, the mind boggling nature of 5d Diplomacy. I love it so much.
I like the new win condition, but the old win condition would be so cool, because if someone had all 34 supply centers on one board, they could launch a mass attack on adjacent timelines, and that possibility seems really amazing to me.
Tldr: it encourages really unfun situations since it would take ages to complete even in the hypothetical scenario where your enemies remain divided the whole time you can't conquer more than 1 board at a time while climbing up.
I think the issue is it would be impossible to break through a timeline a player controls fully how do you conquer a center when your opponent holds every space on the board?
Also, in addition to that it extends the length of a game which is probably a mistake here. You can't afford to spend dozens of turns snowballing across the timeline before people eliminate you from the other boards and form a two board thick stalemate wall to contain you.
@@solsystem1342 Good points you made, it would be unfun.
Being a little nitpicky, but couldn't the supposedly contained player just create new timelines to break out of the stalemate? Or would that lead to quick elimination?
Wow, the victory condition is genius. That's the one thing I was worried about, so what a turn around. Not just satisfying, but exciting too. Also the convoy chaining analogue is super amusing, definitely worth that extra effort needed for the ghost calendar!
"Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair"
I CLICKED SO FAST OMG
it seems that practically no one has told you about valefisk. he should play it.
now do 5d category theory with multiverse time travel
So, like, 5-categories?
We now have 5Diplomacy, now we just need a standard Oliver Lugg video as an advertisement for it and we’re satisfied.
The longest board game ever played was a Tournament Diplomacy match that lasted 3 years and 7 months. Tournament 5D Diplomacy might last a decade.
_This is insane..._
*I love it*
I think a possibility for limiting timelines would be that each player can make no more than +1 timeline than other players have made. Kind of like 5d chess in a sense. What would make this work is that, unlike in chess where each player “owns” a turn and that is the limiter, in 5d diplomacy each player “owns” the creation of a timeline. Technically this system allows for multiple people to have ownership of a single timeline, but that is not an issue since ownership is just a counter. The limiter would be something like “You can only create 1 more timeline, if 3 other players have created at least the same number as you” The 3 can be changed for whatever you think is the best balance is
example
Russia created 2, Italy 2, Germany 1, England 1, France 1, Turkey 0 Austria 0
In this position Germany, England and France can make 1 timeline. So long as things stay constant Turkey and Austria can make 2. But Russia and Italy are not allowed to make any new timelines until 2 others are responsible for the creation of 2 timelines.
This system still allows for a lot of timelines, but is a limit. Just not a very good one since by winter 01 the number of timelines can reach 15 if everyone does it every turn. Although I image defining who “created” a timeline would be a nightmare sometimes
Edit: Another idea I had just as I posted this was what if each timeline you create costs a build from either the new or old timeline. Obviously it should always be one of them, I just haven’t decided which side is better to apply the cost to. This way there is a cost for the person creating it that they will have to manage the rest of the game. Although this might discourage creating timelines too much, since each unit is very important
5D chess doesn't actually block time travel over the limit, the new timelines just become "inactive" until the opponent travels again. But for diplomacy I think you'd need to completely block time travel for players over the limit, otherwise you'd run into problems if two players time travel on the same turn and one is over the limit and one is under the limit.
Congratulations, Oliver Lugg.
I think that timeline reduction should be a game mechanic. Imagine every board (except for those boards which are on the prime timeline) having a big red button on the corner, where if enough players push it it results in the “nuclear option” and prevents any movement on future boards in that specific timeline. It would allow for multiverse dislodging, cutting off two timelines that share an adjacent timeline from interacting beyond a certain place/time
I havent put any thought into this, but maybe another potential win condition (maybe included as another game setting?) would be to get more than half the supply centers on only the prime timeline. This is more like a movie's version of time travel (who cares about all the other timelines we screw up, we won in ours!), and i have no idea how this would affect gameplay or strategies
May god have mercy on your soul.
The winter unit logic is a great way to keep timelines under control. I agree with the solution
You could still have timeline splits go up if the split is based on if it's a spring or autumn phase, so there are less crossing lines
And thank you for not allowing units to retreat through time
On reducing timeline splitting: there is something players own, orders. Since orders to move to the past are what creates new timelines, that is what can be restricted. So you could have a rule like "when you issue an order to move to the past, you cannot do so again in the timeline you issued said order in until said timeline splits", which is pretty restricting condition, and also means if a time travel order bounces you just loose the ability to time travel for a while in that timeline, possibly forever if the time travel orders of others bounce as well(though that does seem a bit unlikely to truly soft-lock a timeline). You could also have a rule like "when you issue a time travel order, you cannot do so again in the timeline the units end up in until the next winter season" which is designed to force you to use the time traveled units wisely but also could have some funny consequences in the event of a bounce. I'm not sure if these are a good idea but it is an option for restricting timeline spam if you want that
The jurassic convoy has lived rent-free in my head for the past 2 years. Thank you for making it possible.
31:25 man when I ssw this I cackled. You're a such a madman, I love you. Hope this gains some momentum, so we all can see some really crazy plays.
This has to be one of the coolest things I've ever seen on RUclips, good job to you, CaptainMeme, and everyone else involved!
(also if every possible diplomacy game is possible like you said at 7:54, do you think it would be possible to just add a "Standard Mode" by adding a boolean flag (canTimeTravel?) and disabling time travel if it is flagged false?)
Again, this is has to be one of the most awesome things I've ever seen.
(also, I think the UI for this game is beautiful, nice job!)
Finally, The perfect Game
I expected the win condition to match 5D chess where you only need one checkmate to win. But for this, you need to control half the supply centers on a single board. This resolution, though, could be an interesting take that encourages more shenanigans
🤯 Pure Madness. I love it.
the art on the front! oh i love this already just for that.
My mind is going mad with the possibilities... Being able to support future attacks, and coordinating that with allies across multiple dimensions... having to decide if you'll go through with it or merely use it as a decoy now that your opponent knows of those supports... You're created an abomination and I love it.
Welp, time to form the Holy Inter-Dimensional Russian Empire. Ура!
But honestly, I never thought I’d actually see it, that’s insane!
After your last video, I immediately made a four region diplomacy board, and played a 5D Diplomacy game
mad lad did it!
In fairness, Valefisk is the only person who has made Diplomacy content and not bored me to death
Valefisk should play this
The victory condition looks so fun. I love the idea of needing to work with someone in one timeline and kill them in another to get into a position to solo while on like 9 units max😂
As the day is long, so the well runs dry
And we came to see time is taller than space is wide
And we bade goodbye to the great divide
Found unlimited simulacreage to colonize
But there was a time we were lashed to the prow
Of a ship you may board, but not steer
Before you and I ceased to mean now
And began to mean only right here
To mean inches and miles, but not years
Before space had a taste of it's limits
And a new sort of coordinate awoke
Making time just another poor tenant
Bearing weight, taking fire, trading smokes
In the war between us and our ghosts
did you write this?
@@omnitroph1501 Nope! It's Waltz of the 101st Lightborne by Joanna Newsom.
Ive never felt so conflicted about wanting to play a game ever. I love it, amazing work.
This is super impressive. Really good work.
Also Diplostrats should do a commentary when Valefisk plays this.
I hope 5D turnbased strategy becomes an entire subgenre in itself. I want the mindbending factor of multiverse parallel timeline paradox clones to invade and burn every morsel of my brain.
You know who should play this?
Bokoen
While I think that logically it's easy enough to to keep track of which board(s) are active and need orders, some sort of visual indication might be in order! The borders of locked boards turning black might be a simple way of visually confirming which board is presently active.
Love the concept, love the product.
I think a way of controlling timelines, even if probably not implementable, is a confluence property, such that if a board state is exactly the same as a board state in the future of another timeline, the timelines merge.
Now do 5D Campaign For North Africa.
I am so glad that i got this brainworm after the prototype video existed. You saved me SO MUCH TIME by making thay video
What if a new timeline spawned directly below the timeline it came from? That way similar-ish timelines stay near each other. Would that actually work, game-design wise?
The timeline number limit could be implememted like 5d chess: each player have a timeline counter, it increases by one if they participated in creating a new timeline, and a move would fail if it would increase the counter 2 above the lowest.
Valefisk should definitely play this
A new video from you never fails to make my month
The Jurassic Convoy reveal was a legitimate pop-off moment for me. Unbelievable.
Russia: * controls Moscow in three different timelines *
Lugg: "That still only counts as one!"
Missed opportunity to name it DDDDDiplomacy
YEEEEEEESSSS LESSS BUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ( i like this 👍)
Can't wait to watch LynxHylix get blackout drunk playing this.
What a crazy concept!
Your scientists were so preoccupied with wether or not they could, that they didn't stop to think if they should.
I'VE BEEN LOOKING OUT FOR THIS YEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSS
FINALLY NEW LUGG VIDEO!
-Wait, can fleets set up a convoy chain to take huge leaps back in time? Like if you convoyed London in Fall 1901 to Norway in Spring 1901, and then you convoy from London Spring 1902 to London Fall 1901, and just kept going like that?-
Convoys and supports are even more OP than I first believed. With just ONE fleet, you could send an army/fleet back in time as far as you like. Jurassic Convoy!!!
End of the video seems to say yes
imagine 7 algorythms all playing perfectly and just looking at the post game map on lose adjacencies looks like...
This seems like a fun concept! For about 2 rounds. I imagine it's hell after that. Valefisk should play it!
It'll be cool if the amount of timelines allowed was tied to the number of unique supply centers you controlled to tie in with the win condition but then youd have to introduce timelines belonging to players again and i do like how timelines belong to everyone with moves from multiple players being able to split to the same timeline
he's bloody done it
I like the Valefisk fanbase overlap, never thought your prototype was going anywhere though, this explains the silence though. Your own equivalent of campaign for north africa.
Next you should do 5D Campaign of North Africa, just in case a game of normal Campaign of North Africa is finnished
FINALLY IT IS HERE
Marvelous!
To create a new timeline, your unit must be supported by at least as many units as the number of timelines you have already created.
thats a sick idea. The more we mess with the timeline the harder it becomes
He did it. He did the sequel
Just want to tip my hat to your UX skills, after haing intalled it and played aound for a bit; it really is a very nice Diplomacy rdersUI,possibly the best ive used. Also it has time travel.
This is magnificently silly. I love it.
Valefisk already played this in another timeline, but Teddy and Solll came back to stop him from making them play it in this one
Wow, this is hella impressive. I find it very funny that this game implies that in the alternate reality where this takes place, everything happened the same, except for the fact that every single major European power in world war 1 gained access to time travel
why didn't the original creator think of this, smh
perfect solution to stalemate lines
as a long term goal i hope yall make variants
the Cold War 1v1 variant would go hard on this
You can play tall vs wide in this version of Diplomacy. Focusing on outright victory on one board, or collecting one unique center on 18 different boards.
I love the idea that turn one, evryone is talking, prepping for stuff, only to see after arbitration a convoy from one player for SOMEONE ELSES TERRITORY like 10 turns from now. Riots ensue, as everyones conceptions of loyalty and agreements shatter. Is that a threat? An agreement? Just fucking with them? WHO KNOWS!
it is actually 5D. two dimensions of space with an implied 3rd (as the pieces have height in real life), with back and forth time travel, and sideways time travel.
Now i guess vale needs to play this
about limiting timelines; you say the turns aren't owned by the players like chess, but the fractured timeline must be caused by at least one player. i think the changing timeline arrow could change color to the player's color that changed the timeline. and if multiple players changed it, say red and yellow, the arrow will be split down the middle with red and yellow coloring. then let's say red continues splitting from this second timeline into a third time line, now red has 2/3 ownership of this split timeline which could be represented by having the arrow 2/3 red and 1/3 yellow. even if you don't want to use this information to prevent 1 player from spamming timelines, it would give an intuitive visual representation of which players are creating these timelines
So this is what Star Trek meant by Temporal Wars
Valefisk should, in fact, play this.
now that I think about it... there isn't a third spatial dimension. in either.
but that doesn't matter.