The origin of the "extra footage" is that Chris Hayden who originally edited some of the filmed inserts for the BBC kept some of the material - he mentioned it on a podcast in September (Radio Free Skaro #980) and obviously the BBC got in touch. It obviously generates publicity, but this is not like a director's cut where material that the director wanted in the original but had to be cut for time is being restored. It is just stuff from the cutting room floor being added as a gimmick
A serial cut down from 240 mins to 90 mins???!!! How can you do that without doing extreme violence to the story? That's a cut down of more than 50%. I suspect the reason why they cut down on these eps is because the BBC is trying to save money on the colorization. I imagine it must not be cheap to colorize these old episodes.
Lol can you imagine if they made the second Doctors sonic screwdriver because of this episode Character just decide " i know We'll make the 2nd doctor's sonic Screwdriver, I'm sure fans are urgently awaiting for a release of a penlight " lol i doubt it tho
I wish they’d stop using that cheesy statement about “appealing to a modern audience” as the rationale for chopping out giant chunks of these stories for a colourisation exercises. We live in an age of people bingeing entire seasons of 10 x 45-60 minute episodes in one or two sittings. Can it really be so ‘under-paced’ as to warrant removal of the best part of six and a half episodes of the original content?
Exactly - most of it is quite well paced. Indeed what is most impressive about Hulke and Dicks' writing is that they sustain the story across 10 episodes - unlike stories like Frontier where there is clearly lots of padding. Let's hope that the new music is not so intrusive as happened with The Daleks.
I pity this modern day audience who will be going to see the cinema release of Wicked - Part 1, knowing that it lasts 10 minutes longer than the whole of the theatre/stage production, how much padding that wasn't in the stage production will be added to part 1 to stretch it out to the running time and consequently how much padding will there be for part2? How will the modern audience sit through it? Interesting to see how the audience would take to watching the full 10 episodes of War Games if it were all colourised and shown weekly over two and a half months.
The thing is those 10 x 45 episode seasons are made to be watched like that. Classic Who is FILLED with padding, and draws things out longer than it ever should've been.
I was excited when this story was said to be colourized Pat Troughton is a favourite of mine and so is The War Games.But then my excitement crashed when you said it's being cut from 250 mins to bloody 90 that's one hell of a CUT. I was gutted when watching the Daleks in colour and I realized it was chopped up too.
It had to be done I suppose. Young people can't watch B&W episodes. That's the theory at least, but I think it seriously underestimates young viewers tastes and capabilities. I'm of two minds here. The War Games is one of my most favorite episodes of early Who, and despite being 5 hours long I can happily watch it from end to end if I can find five free hours to do so. There are so many great scenes, sets, surprises, and twists. Cutting 5 hours down to 90 minutes means inevitably some of that great material will be left out. But if it gets more people to consider the early eras of the show it's probably worth it.
We're getting a Troughton treat this Xmas as BBC Four are repeating The Box of Delights on 7th December. I've also ordered the bluray 40th anniversary edition
Fans will always have the original transmitted version on DVD. For me, this special treatment would be a joy to experience. I've always tried to imagine how the Troughton era would look like in colour. The 90mins cutdown? Doesn't bother me one bit. This is not like Lucas fobbing me off with Special Edition labelling then saying they are the definitive versions. Modernising for those who jumped on Dr Who only recently in the Whittaker Gatwa era? I fully support this! They may help those new fans see what they are missing. For those complaining, why not get to 23rd at the exact time when War Games is on, and turn on your DVD version instead? Having lived through the dark times of the cancellation, any form of classic Who on the BBC is welcomed as a celebration is it not?
Any Patrick Troughton story can be cut down easily by editing out a few of the escape and recapture sequences added to the original episodes to pad them out!
Depending on how they approach the regeneration, it can be considered as much in-lore Time Lord propaganda as the true ending of TWG - therefore the Series 6B theory is safe
Yeah i imagine its a case of "getting to the action" faster and focusing on elements that progress the story. They'll leave in big moments like the sonic being used and the last episode will be their wholesale. I dont think all the elements they'll cut out will count as "padding" But those bits that dont contribute to the story. Arguably cutting out things important in other ways, charecter moments and charming extra bits and supporting characters. But i think u can afford to cut out a few of the mamy times the doctor gets captured and escapes. And yeah pretty sure confession dial's brilliant regen is going to be featured. Should be a good watch. Although the daleks suffered from slightly overbearing music and some weird cuts so we'll see :)
This is something extra. Those that don’t want it, fine! Don’t buy it. You still have the B/W 10 episode version. I was going to buy The Daleks in colour but it was , in my opinion, badly coloured and edited. Therefore, I cancelled my pre-order. That was my choice. Everyone gets that choice. Watch it and if it’s good buy the DVD/ Blu Ray and if you think it’s trash then don’t buy.
looking forward to this. plenty of 'slack' to be removed at the start/end buffers of each episode. as long as the separate episode format is available on the BD, then that's acceptable, otherwise just rewatch the DVDs 🙂
Well a certain amount of film can be cut down. Half a hour once a week usually involved the last three minutes of one episode being the first of the next episode to refresh memory. Imagine six weeks or two months to watch a episode. Uncertain whether they had a set number of episodes per season. Also the BBC tended to run shows for three months a year and switch to a different series in the time slot. Continuity of a series arc was not always the goal. A episode had to broadcast in order. But during breaks any episode could be broadcast. I first saw the series from the start of Jon Pertwee era. Some good episodes. Tom Baker will always be my favourite. Even those episodes occasionally dragged on. "Get on with it." some folks want a soap opera. Looking backwards we want more exposition. "How did that even work? Where'd he come from? How come he can't just.." So the ten year old me wanted to get on with the action and didn't care about back story. Fifty years old not as big a fan of soap opera, but now I want the explanation and motivation of characters.
I assume that the BBC will butcher War Games in the same way that they butchered The Daleks story. Cut out tonnes of stuff that was important to the story, and add music that doesn't fit in with the action. They are not content enough with ruining the current era but want to ruin the classics as well.
I dunno, I think I'll always want to see the original. But then again 10 episodes of slow-moving 60s telly might be too much of a slog to get through for my son, this version might be something he can enjoy.
They’re not ruining the current era, nor are they ruining the classic era by releasing cut-down versions, the originals are still available and always will be.
I'll be curious to see how they cut this one down as that's a lot of material they're removing, and even though this is one of the longest stories, i don't recall the pacing being bad on this one. There's just loads going on, and there's a lot of jumping around to the different war zones. We'll see. I dont really see the need for adding music or rescoring it, but if it works, that's fine. I'll be curious to see what they're going to do with the regeneration, too.
Yes indeed. Some criticise the War Games for being long, but I want more of it, not less. For me the serial could easily have been much longer without outstaying its welcome. If the budget would permit, there could easily have been one or two episodes of Romans with anachronisms, and for a change of scene it would have been possible to incorporate a future war, and perhaps also for Troughton to recall his naval career like Pertwee in the Sea Devils. It would also have been entertaining to see the Doctor spend an entire episode trying to escape the Time Lords, like a mini version of The Chase, and the Doctor's trial would have been better as a full episode. The story could have been successful as a season-long arc (the whole Games, that is, we have seen that making just a trial last a whole season doesn't make for the very best Doctor Who). I really hope the editors were brave enough to retain the Doctor's kangaroo court-martial in the style of Paths of Glory. It comes early, but it provides the emotional heartbeat of the whole story. My worry is that the anti-war message is removed to suit the tastes of modern critics born long after this country's last mass mobilisation.
The Time Lord robes are black and white, see The Sound of Drums which features the robes but in colour. We don't even know if this is Gallifrey. Off worlders tend to be kept away from Gallifrey. This could be the same station seen in Trial of a Time Lord.
Nah behind the scenes photos will show you that they are actually very dark blue and white, the new series actually makes the mistake making them black and white probably because they’ve just looked at the programme seen them in black and white.
Actually, there were a number of color production photos taken during this story. So, the team behind this venture would have those as a reference for a number of sets and costumes. My only criticism of the test images is that Troughton's shirt was white until the Three Doctors, which is confirmed by behind the scenes photos from the period. I guess they're just taking some artistic license there.
I think this is promising. Wargames was a good story but extremely padded so it could do with being trimmed. 90 mins without credits equates roughly to a four parter and I think it can be done. (I just about dimly remember it at the time - the padding didn't matter, it was Saturday and it was Dr Who.) Hopefully the colourisation will seem more naturalistic, since most of the environments are natural. I don't give a tinker's cuss about the continuity fanbang stuff. Not keen on them standardising the modern visually histrionic regeneration visuals back through the whole lot. There was a lot of inventive charm in the classic regens - my favourite remains the beautifully understated 3-4. I'm also slightly worried about the rescoring, but I suppose "modern audiences" need an orchestra in full spasm and I don't begrudge Murray the cash... I like the colourisation project though and hope it continues. Something to bear in mind is that producing in black and white involved different approaches to everything from design to lighting to blocking and pacing, and it'll be very interesting to see how they deal with translating all of that. They'll probably have an easier time with this than Colourisation of the Daleks though, since the tech and approaches had evolved considerably. Another thought that occurs is that Troughton and co were extremely physically demonstrative - perhaps because of the frequent padding, where they often had to sell five minutes of creeping around - and it'll be interesting to see how that translates into a cutdown version.
Why do these stories have to be cut down? If they are going to colourise this story then do the whole story, not just parts of it. For me cutting down a story ruins it.
Not a fan of colourisastion. I love the black and white, and with Troughton being my doctor, it’s a hard pass. You can’t tell a 4 hour story in less than 2, it’s a disgrace.
yeh why dont the bbc have a go at reconstructing "The Power of the Daleks" instead using Ai technology and telesnaps, be alot better than all this colouring in of old b/w episodes that their doing now.
Colourisation has improved a great deal. I'm all for it - if it looks natural. The 'colour strike' of 1971, where virtually whole series were blighted, is crying out for it.
Ah, here we go again with making Doctor Who for “modern audiences”. Russell T. Davies came back with a sledgehammer to destroy anything enjoyable left of Doctor Who that wasn’t ruined by Chris Chibnall, but Russell T. Davies isn’t done yet. Now he’s colorizing the black and white episodes of Doctor Who, which no one asked him to do. I agree that The War Games had WAY too many episodes for it to be suspenseful or interesting, although I do like the concept. Adding color to these episodes is totally unnecessary!
@@yellowpete79 Not a very mature riposte. Puberty just passed you by, did it? Won't see your reply as I just muted you, so just go away and watch Bluey, you will probably learn something.
![The Second Doctor's Trial & Regeneration [4K] | The War Games in Colour](/img/1.gif)
The origin of the "extra footage" is that Chris Hayden who originally edited some of the filmed inserts for the BBC kept some of the material - he mentioned it on a podcast in September (Radio Free Skaro #980) and obviously the BBC got in touch. It obviously generates publicity, but this is not like a director's cut where material that the director wanted in the original but had to be cut for time is being restored. It is just stuff from the cutting room floor being added as a gimmick
If they want shorter stories, why not colorize a story that is already just 90 minutes?
A serial cut down from 240 mins to 90 mins???!!! How can you do that without doing extreme violence to the story? That's a cut down of more than 50%. I suspect the reason why they cut down on these eps is because the BBC is trying to save money on the colorization. I imagine it must not be cheap to colorize these old episodes.
Easy. The pacing back then was so slow that you can cut a lot out and it still makes sense.
@@Domihork I am guessing you haven't seen the War Games.
That means 62.5% has been cut out
Lol can you imagine if they made the second Doctors sonic screwdriver because of this episode Character just decide " i know We'll make the 2nd doctor's sonic Screwdriver, I'm sure fans are urgently awaiting for a release of a penlight " lol i doubt it tho
I wish they’d stop using that cheesy statement about “appealing to a modern audience” as the rationale for chopping out giant chunks of these stories for a colourisation exercises. We live in an age of people bingeing entire seasons of 10 x 45-60 minute episodes in one or two sittings. Can it really be so ‘under-paced’ as to warrant removal of the best part of six and a half episodes of the original content?
Exactly - most of it is quite well paced. Indeed what is most impressive about Hulke and Dicks' writing is that they sustain the story across 10 episodes - unlike stories like Frontier where there is clearly lots of padding. Let's hope that the new music is not so intrusive as happened with The Daleks.
I pity this modern day audience who will be going to see the cinema release of Wicked - Part 1, knowing that it lasts 10 minutes longer than the whole of the theatre/stage production, how much padding that wasn't in the stage production will be added to part 1 to stretch it out to the running time and consequently how much padding will there be for part2? How will the modern audience sit through it?
Interesting to see how the audience would take to watching the full 10 episodes of War Games if it were all colourised and shown weekly over two and a half months.
The thing is those 10 x 45 episode seasons are made to be watched like that. Classic Who is FILLED with padding, and draws things out longer than it ever should've been.
Yes. Many modern fans will not watch it in this format because of the pacing, b&w, and length. It doesn’t erase the original. It’s just an option.
I remember watching the war games with Terrace dicks at a meeting 30’years ago and he said openly that there was 5 episodes of padding.
I was excited when this story was said to be colourized Pat Troughton is a favourite of mine and so is The War Games.But then my excitement crashed when you said it's being cut from 250 mins to bloody 90 that's one hell of a CUT. I was gutted when watching the Daleks in colour and I realized it was chopped up too.
It had to be done I suppose. Young people can't watch B&W episodes. That's the theory at least, but I think it seriously underestimates young viewers tastes and capabilities.
I'm of two minds here. The War Games is one of my most favorite episodes of early Who, and despite being 5 hours long I can happily watch it from end to end if I can find five free hours to do so. There are so many great scenes, sets, surprises, and twists. Cutting 5 hours down to 90 minutes means inevitably some of that great material will be left out. But if it gets more people to consider the early eras of the show it's probably worth it.
We're getting a Troughton treat this Xmas as BBC Four are repeating The Box of Delights on 7th December. I've also ordered the bluray 40th anniversary edition
Loving the colour on those Time lords 👍
If they only had the Maco Polo one from the Heartnal era, which has sipped by the bbc.
Marco Polo would probably be "too offensive " for modern audiences
This kinda puts the kibosh on Tony Garner's 2.5th Doctor from Isaac Films' "Devious".
True, and the whole Season 6B thing. Maybe they’ll be a fade to black before the regen or something, so it still fits?
Shouldn’t the Second Doctor’s shirt be white instead of the blue shirt from the three doctors ?
Fans will always have the original transmitted version on DVD. For me, this special treatment would be a joy to experience. I've always tried to imagine how the Troughton era would look like in colour. The 90mins cutdown? Doesn't bother me one bit. This is not like Lucas fobbing me off with Special Edition labelling then saying they are the definitive versions. Modernising for those who jumped on Dr Who only recently in the Whittaker Gatwa era? I fully support this! They may help those new fans see what they are missing. For those complaining, why not get to 23rd at the exact time when War Games is on, and turn on your DVD version instead? Having lived through the dark times of the cancellation, any form of classic Who on the BBC is welcomed as a celebration is it not?
Any Patrick Troughton story can be cut down easily by editing out a few of the escape and recapture sequences added to the original episodes to pad them out!
So... that basically removes all possibility of 6B?
Depending on how they approach the regeneration, it can be considered as much in-lore Time Lord propaganda as the true ending of TWG - therefore the Series 6B theory is safe
Yeah i imagine its a case of "getting to the action" faster and focusing on elements that progress the story. They'll leave in big moments like the sonic being used and the last episode will be their wholesale. I dont think all the elements they'll cut out will count as "padding" But those bits that dont contribute to the story. Arguably cutting out things important in other ways, charecter moments and charming extra bits and supporting characters. But i think u can afford to cut out a few of the mamy times the doctor gets captured and escapes. And yeah pretty sure confession dial's brilliant regen is going to be featured. Should be a good watch. Although the daleks suffered from slightly overbearing music and some weird cuts so we'll see :)
So where does that leave the season 6B theory
Will this new color version be put on Blu Ray next year??!!😀
I’d be very surprised if it isn’t!
This is something extra. Those that don’t want it, fine! Don’t buy it. You still have the B/W 10 episode version. I was going to buy The Daleks in colour but it was , in my opinion, badly coloured and edited. Therefore, I cancelled my pre-order. That was my choice. Everyone gets that choice. Watch it and if it’s good buy the DVD/ Blu Ray and if you think it’s trash then don’t buy.
The Colourisation of the Daleks sounds like a lost story
Or an alternate title for Victory of the Daleks.
It's crap.
@@Concreteowlnot the point
Do you think the next could be the 10th planet or the tomb of the cybermen
looking forward to this.
plenty of 'slack' to be removed at the start/end buffers of each episode.
as long as the separate episode format is available on the BD, then that's acceptable, otherwise just rewatch the DVDs 🙂
Well a certain amount of film can be cut down. Half a hour once a week usually involved the last three minutes of one episode being the first of the next episode to refresh memory. Imagine six weeks or two months to watch a episode. Uncertain whether they had a set number of episodes per season. Also the BBC tended to run shows for three months a year and switch to a different series in the time slot. Continuity of a series arc was not always the goal.
A episode had to broadcast in order. But during breaks any episode could be broadcast.
I first saw the series from the start of Jon Pertwee era.
Some good episodes. Tom Baker will always be my favourite.
Even those episodes occasionally dragged on. "Get on with it." some folks want a soap opera.
Looking backwards we want more exposition. "How did that even work?
Where'd he come from? How come he can't just.."
So the ten year old me wanted to get on with the action and didn't care about back story. Fifty years old not as big a fan of soap opera, but now I want the explanation and motivation of characters.
That will kill the season 6b theoy now as we are getting a new second doctor changing into the third doctor
I assume that the BBC will butcher War Games in the same way that they butchered The Daleks story. Cut out tonnes of stuff that was important to the story, and add music that doesn't fit in with the action. They are not content enough with ruining the current era but want to ruin the classics as well.
I dunno, I think I'll always want to see the original. But then again 10 episodes of slow-moving 60s telly might be too much of a slog to get through for my son, this version might be something he can enjoy.
They’re not ruining the current era, nor are they ruining the classic era by releasing cut-down versions, the originals are still available and always will be.
I'll be curious to see how they cut this one down as that's a lot of material they're removing, and even though this is one of the longest stories, i don't recall the pacing being bad on this one. There's just loads going on, and there's a lot of jumping around to the different war zones. We'll see. I dont really see the need for adding music or rescoring it, but if it works, that's fine. I'll be curious to see what they're going to do with the regeneration, too.
Yes indeed. Some criticise the War Games for being long, but I want more of it, not less. For me the serial could easily have been much longer without outstaying its welcome.
If the budget would permit, there could easily have been one or two episodes of Romans with anachronisms, and for a change of scene it would have been possible to incorporate a future war, and perhaps also for Troughton to recall his naval career like Pertwee in the Sea Devils. It would also have been entertaining to see the Doctor spend an entire episode trying to escape the Time Lords, like a mini version of The Chase, and the Doctor's trial would have been better as a full episode. The story could have been successful as a season-long arc (the whole Games, that is, we have seen that making just a trial last a whole season doesn't make for the very best Doctor Who).
I really hope the editors were brave enough to retain the Doctor's kangaroo court-martial in the style of Paths of Glory. It comes early, but it provides the emotional heartbeat of the whole story. My worry is that the anti-war message is removed to suit the tastes of modern critics born long after this country's last mass mobilisation.
The Time Lord robes are black and white, see The Sound of Drums which features the robes but in colour. We don't even know if this is Gallifrey. Off worlders tend to be kept away from Gallifrey. This could be the same station seen in Trial of a Time Lord.
Nah behind the scenes photos will show you that they are actually very dark blue and white, the new series actually makes the mistake making them black and white probably because they’ve just looked at the programme seen them in black and white.
I wish they don't f*ck with the regeneration scene... The stupid yellow glowing sun rays ... Shame they didn't try something different this time.
quest...how do they colourise these stories, do they have original colour photos at the time.?????
Actually, there were a number of color production photos taken during this story. So, the team behind this venture would have those as a reference for a number of sets and costumes. My only criticism of the test images is that Troughton's shirt was white until the Three Doctors, which is confirmed by behind the scenes photos from the period. I guess they're just taking some artistic license there.
They paint it frame by frame, which is why it doesn’t surprise me they’ve cut it down so much.
I think this is promising. Wargames was a good story but extremely padded so it could do with being trimmed. 90 mins without credits equates roughly to a four parter and I think it can be done. (I just about dimly remember it at the time - the padding didn't matter, it was Saturday and it was Dr Who.) Hopefully the colourisation will seem more naturalistic, since most of the environments are natural. I don't give a tinker's cuss about the continuity fanbang stuff. Not keen on them standardising the modern visually histrionic regeneration visuals back through the whole lot. There was a lot of inventive charm in the classic regens - my favourite remains the beautifully understated 3-4. I'm also slightly worried about the rescoring, but I suppose "modern audiences" need an orchestra in full spasm and I don't begrudge Murray the cash...
I like the colourisation project though and hope it continues. Something to bear in mind is that producing in black and white involved different approaches to everything from design to lighting to blocking and pacing, and it'll be very interesting to see how they deal with translating all of that. They'll probably have an easier time with this than Colourisation of the Daleks though, since the tech and approaches had evolved considerably.
Another thought that occurs is that Troughton and co were extremely physically demonstrative - perhaps because of the frequent padding, where they often had to sell five minutes of creeping around - and it'll be interesting to see how that translates into a cutdown version.
The colours are about as subtle as a mugging.
why won't they confirm the next animation
A third of the story only! WTF?
Why do these stories have to be cut down? If they are going to colourise this story then do the whole story, not just parts of it. For me cutting down a story ruins it.
Colorizing the whole story is super expensive
Because the full story is 375,000 frames and they’d have to paint every single one
Not a fan of colourisastion. I love the black and white, and with Troughton being my doctor, it’s a hard pass.
You can’t tell a 4 hour story in less than 2, it’s a disgrace.
yeh why dont the bbc have a go at reconstructing "The Power of the Daleks" instead using Ai technology and telesnaps, be alot better than all this colouring in of old b/w episodes that their doing now.
Colourisation has improved a great deal. I'm all for it - if it looks natural. The 'colour strike' of 1971, where virtually whole series were blighted, is crying out for it.
Well Davis ruined the Daleks so I guess to cash in the whole lot will be butchered
Ah, here we go again with making Doctor Who for “modern audiences”. Russell T. Davies came back with a sledgehammer to destroy anything enjoyable left of Doctor Who that wasn’t ruined by Chris Chibnall, but Russell T. Davies isn’t done yet. Now he’s colorizing the black and white episodes of Doctor Who, which no one asked him to do. I agree that The War Games had WAY too many episodes for it to be suspenseful or interesting, although I do like the concept. Adding color to these episodes is totally unnecessary!
The originals still exist
yeh looks like old Russells got his wax crayons out again !
Is there a bigger bunch of wibbly wobbly whingy whines than Doctor Who fans?
Your mum.
@@yellowpete79 Not a very mature riposte. Puberty just passed you by, did it? Won't see your reply as I just muted you, so just go away and watch Bluey, you will probably learn something.
Star Wars fans
@@brewster_4 What's the difference between an egg and a Star Wars fan?
Even an egg gets laid once.
@@MaryHinge-u2i your dad
It doesn’t work and your loose the plot 10 episodes into 4 or a hour and half 😡🥺🥵
Can we please have the Moffat episodes redone so that Ncuti Gatwa replaces both Smith and Crapaldi? I'd love that to happen.
That’s certainly a take