Enjoy seeing your Hermann Schmidt vise in the video. Got mine from the Hermann himself, in late 60's. He used to go door to door to the machine shops in North Jersey selling direct. I was an apprentice at the time and got to pay off in time. Also bought his vise sine plate, blocks, and angle. Still have everything.
Love the feet, super elegant design. The results from the rough grind really goes to show how big a difference good inspection makes. Knowing the calibration on your plate is like night and day levels of confidence.
Extremly interesting precesion construction of your master square. So interesting how pieces from raw steel can be fabricated into such a high precision square. I'm looking forward to the final work after the heat treat. Tom, Thank you for sharing.
Very nice indeed. Food for thought as a Master Square is quite expensive especially here in Australia. Just to have a nice reference tool like that for the small workshop would be so handy. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Good looking project. The welded construction is a huge benefit as making/getting a casting as base for such project is usually beyond the resources of us home gamers.
I've watched Tom's videos long before I bought the machinery for my hobby shop.....Tom, thank you! You are like the king of this type of video. The machining footage is hypnotic and acts like a sedative...I must have been a machinist in a former life.....I can fall asleep watching your vids, no offense.....I just like them....Thanks for doing these.
Well Tom, just laying here after back surgery, the mind is feeling hungry, and look, Meatloaf! Just what I was hungry for, Yumm! The project is looking good, looking forward to the next installment. Nice trick on the adjustable little feet. Meanwhile, I'm rooting the refrigerator, looking for meatloaf & such I missed, a good way to spend on your back time! Thanks!!
I notice your square check indicator. I like how heavy duty it is, using a big dial drop indicator instead of the smaller interapid that I use. I will be making one soon. Thanks for the inspiration!!
REALLY cool video. I've been learning from you and adam and mrpete for awhile now, but still a little bit the newb. it took me awhile to figure out your adjustment legs. I eventually figured it out, and allI have to say is BRILLIANT! Very elegant design. Thanks for sharing.
I just watched the LB lab tour video with John Saunders this morning, so when I saw 'composite', I was thinking glues, plastics, layers, you know, composites. When you were working on the lightening holes, I would have swore you were milling a composite material. I began to doubt that, when it 'clunked' on the vise, just a little, as you sat it down. Sounded like steel, then I started thinking, why would he need to lighten composite, THAT is why they are used, composites are already light. It was the grinding that confirmed my confusion. When you said composite, you meant multiple part... Ah well, it's been one of those days. My morning got interrupted for about 3 hours when a dare devil squirrel was immolated by a tranformer, which then exploded, knocking out power. My day never recovered... Guess I need to go back, and look at the first milling sequence, to see what I thought I was seeing... Thanks for sharing... still blown away by where you get to work. GeoD
For all of the CNC work that I do I still get a ton of enjoyment watching things done by hand like this. Well done, sir. Hope you are doing great! Tom Z
You didn't need to flip the vice around to mill those triangles. Simply flip the part in the vice around the spindle axis and those angles are now on the Y axis as they were before.
that round cylinder square looks a lot like one of mine that I made on the lathe. pretty handy using a black granite tile I got at home depot was flat' latest sweep not so much. there's still a corner that leads to the middle but hey found my squarest square demonstrate some fleemarket find squares for bet you'll find some old rusty one's that'll blow your mind thanks tom got one of those huntsman mig welders just love that helmet always be my favorite
Looking good so far. I bet you get it to 1 millionth or some other almost unobtainable accuracy. Ahl be baak for the next part. (I am still an Arnold fan).
Man Tom that was a HUGE cut on that one side edge, hell even .003" is deep on my t&p, but i'm grinding dry for the moment, gotta weld up a pvc wier tank for coolant. Got all the stuff, just lack the time. Ps. Thanks for getting back to the vids!
Tom Lipton and Stefan Gotteswinter star in: "The World's Most Accurate Fidget Spinner Showdown"! No plans, just mano-a-mano for run-out and rotation time. What a showdown that would be!
Ive been welding for 31 years.. holding 5 thou tollerances on stainless..and I forget aLL THE TIME..YOURE EITHER THE BIGGEST LIAR OR THE BEST GROUND GUY TO WALK THE EARTH..BUT i DOUBT EITHER IF YOU NEVER MAke mistakes
Tom, you should have age (old) the part after welding. It can be distorted, bent with time. Aging can be speed up by placing in fire, and then slow cool down
I assume that the heat treat would stress relieve the block some.. Not sure of that's correct. Would it have been a good idea to heat the whole part to stress relieve before doing the rough grinding before heat treat? I like the setup for milling out the triangles.. I assume that they were mainly for looks. If going for weight I would think you could mill rectangles in the flat sides that mate the plates before welding.. I look forward to seeing this project finished. Thanks for the video..
Hi Max, The neat thing about case hardening is you get both qualities in one part. A hard tough exterior and a soft ductile core. We will see about long term stability I guess. Easy enough to monitor. Mass and weight are you friends when it comes to stuff like this. Its the old if its heavy it must be quality and precise...... Cheers, Tom
Thanks, I understand the case hardening process.. I'm was curious about the project changing shape since it's manly all cold rolled steel. I know that machining will also allow the material to distort.. Guy Lautard mentioned it in one of his bedside reader books. As I understand the heat treat process. The metal is heated to a point that allows carbon to be introduced into the surface making the surface harder..Still have a can of Kasenit around here someplace. I'm thinking that at that temp any stress due to the cold rolling of the base pieces would be relieved causing the part to shift. Also the welding would create more stress in the part. I was wondering if it would have been a good idea to stress relieve the part before initial finishing and heat treat.
I know this is old This was sent for heat treatment? What kind of steel was this? The base (1st part) looked like 2x2 1/4 hot rolled? The sides might be tool steel but look like plate?
That is a better name than composite. Its a nod to the Pratt Whitney truss design level and snap gages. Look them up as they are pretty cool looking. Best, Tom
Something from the woodworking machinery world.... a 1/8NPT thread would allow the use of a headless pipe plug that has a nice shallow taper to it. Would make getting the gnat's hair adjusted out.
Hi Kenny. Its actually two inches thick. I had the rough stock plate of my welding table blanchard ground. It was actually pretty cheap at $500 and free delivery. Cheers. Tom
I'm just wondering why not do a stress-relief heat treatment after welding to remove the welding stresses and the material stresses. That way it doesn't move pretty much at all in hardening or if it moves much, then the heat treater is to blame.
Silly question or maybe its obvious but what is that white material the sparks are hitting on your surface grinder? I assume its to stop the sparks from going further and to get them to drop down but it looks like material of some sort but it isn't getting burnt by the sparks.
Could you have made some lighting cuts on the sides of the tube that have the plates added? I see the benefits of grinding those sides flat, but it seems to me that leaving only a few "bars" of material across the face and ribs along the sides for welding would be sufficient and there would be more weight removed. Interesting project anyway.
I notice you used a hammer with non metal faces (soft) I use a small copper hammer that does not take much to move. I did buy a hammer like you used also an liked them fine. I do want a nice shot loaded Numpla to use since my big Orange hammer busted out the faces after years of service. Your hammer interest and choices are fun to see. Is there a video where you discuss the differences and why? I can get one to send you for a gift I bet you do not have or may even never seen. Regards, Lew
Hi Lou. I do have a shot loaded Nupla somewhere in the rack. The one on camera is a LIxie and is also shot filled. I prefer wood handles on my hammers. I seem to recall the Nupla has a plastic handle. I have not done a video on dead blow hammers. Might be a good one. Cheers, Tom
Why don't grinders always grind a slightly uphill slant as you feed the workpiece across the wheel (not the back and forth horizontal, but the steady motion perpendicular to the repetitive horizontal axis)? Doesn't the wheel wear away and effectively become further from the surface the longer it is used?
Another great video. What is your clean up after using the NOGA Cool Mist? I have a mill about identical to yours except it says EISON and I am concerned with rust under the vise after using the Cool Mist. Do you dismount your vise to clean after using the mister either on your mill or surface grinder?
Shop vac. The surface under the mag chuck is prepared and protected prior to mounting the chuck. Once you have the mag chuck trued up you generally leave it as long as possible.
oxtoolco how do you prep the surface under the chuck so it won't rust? I just got a surface grinder and am wondering what will I find under there. Not sure if I'll take it off yet, waiting to hook it up and see how flat it is first.
Can you elaborate on your choice to use 4 flexures instead of three? I know you can get something to sit on four points but it's much easier to use three, no? Also, caught the lexan pinch bar for the mag chuck ... NICE! Thanks for the video.
For squarish bases four points is more stable. The Hermann Schmidt has four lapped feet on it for this reason. Its over constrained but more stable in this situation. Three flexures would have been awkward with this design so I opted for symmetry. Cheers, Tom
I LOVE this video (and all of yours Tom!) .. I am sorry if I am missing something- is there a follow up video to this, inspecting after getting it back from heat-treat and finish grinding etc? I would love to know what happens from here! Thank you
"A machinist can never leave good enough alone." That's the most accurate quote I've ever heard.
Amen
Patience, precision and planning, that's what makes this channel so very interesting. Thanks for sharing young man. Kindest regards. Joe.
Just skived off what i am supposed to be doing to watch this. Time well spent...clearly. Thanks for the film, truly lovely to watch. thanks
Enjoy seeing your Hermann Schmidt vise in the video. Got mine from the Hermann himself, in late 60's. He used to go door to door to the machine shops in North Jersey selling direct. I was an apprentice at the time and got to pay off in time. Also bought his vise sine plate, blocks, and angle. Still have everything.
Love the feet, super elegant design. The results from the rough grind really goes to show how big a difference good inspection makes. Knowing the calibration on your plate is like night and day levels of confidence.
Nothing better than to watch the creation of a precision measurement tool to unobtainium specs!
Love to see you making stuff again (on camera for us to watch). Very enjoyable.
Extremly interesting precesion construction of your master square. So interesting how pieces from raw steel can be fabricated into such a high precision square. I'm looking forward to the final work after the heat treat.
Tom, Thank you for sharing.
Glad to see your smiling face working in your shop again on really neat projects.
Additive manufacturing has it's advantages but nothing beats substrative when it comes to viewing pleasure!
I'm finally buying my mini lathe tomorrow after many years of wanting it lol. I cannot wait to make some chips!
Very nice indeed. Food for thought as a Master Square is quite expensive especially here in Australia. Just to have a nice reference tool like that for the small workshop would be so handy. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Good looking project. The welded construction is a huge benefit as making/getting a casting as base for such project is usually beyond the resources of us home gamers.
I've watched Tom's videos long before I bought the machinery for my hobby shop.....Tom, thank you! You are like the king of this type of video. The machining footage is hypnotic and acts like a sedative...I must have been a machinist in a former life.....I can fall asleep watching your vids, no offense.....I just like them....Thanks for doing these.
Well Tom, just laying here after back surgery, the mind is feeling hungry, and look, Meatloaf! Just what I was hungry for, Yumm! The project is looking good, looking forward to the next installment. Nice trick on the adjustable little feet. Meanwhile, I'm rooting the refrigerator, looking for meatloaf & such I missed, a good way to spend on your back time! Thanks!!
That's the nicest and cleanest welding table I've ever seen
It is very impressive to see how aggressively those professional machines go through material
I notice your square check indicator. I like how heavy duty it is, using a big dial drop indicator instead of the smaller interapid that I use. I will be making one soon. Thanks for the inspiration!!
REALLY cool video. I've been learning from you and adam and mrpete for awhile now, but still a little bit the newb. it took me awhile to figure out your adjustment legs. I eventually figured it out, and allI have to say is BRILLIANT! Very elegant design. Thanks for sharing.
Was good to see you get well grounded in your task at hand...
Dear Mr. Wizzard I am so GLAD Your Back ! GREAT VID as usual .Greetings From New Mexico.
Love the new 1 2 3 blocks too. thanks for sharing. Very well done.
I just watched the LB lab tour video with John Saunders this morning, so when I saw 'composite', I was thinking glues, plastics, layers, you know, composites.
When you were working on the lightening holes, I would have swore you were milling a composite material. I began to doubt that, when it 'clunked' on the vise, just a little, as you sat it down.
Sounded like steel, then I started thinking, why would he need to lighten composite, THAT is why they are used, composites are already light.
It was the grinding that confirmed my confusion. When you said composite, you meant multiple part...
Ah well, it's been one of those days. My morning got interrupted for about 3 hours when a dare devil squirrel was immolated by a tranformer, which then exploded, knocking out power.
My day never recovered...
Guess I need to go back, and look at the first milling sequence, to see what I thought I was seeing...
Thanks for sharing... still blown away by where you get to work.
GeoD
Beautiful work, thanks for sharing. I love your videos!
Классная работа. Почти как у ДМ! Мечики у Вас очень хорошие. Жаль у нас таких не делают. Успехов Вам!!!
For all of the CNC work that I do I still get a ton of enjoyment watching things done by hand like this. Well done, sir. Hope you are doing great!
Tom Z
really love the choice to use a truss design in there.
Good stuff! I'm really looking forward to the results of heat treat, not enough about that whole field on the net. Thanks, mate!
Excellent work, Tom. Many thanks.
Unusual method of construction. Many variables added to the long term stability equation. I guess the proof will be in the eating
Love watching the master at work Tom, Carn't wait for part two :) cheers mate
Looks good Tom, will be interesting to see the movement after heat treat.
Never forgot the ground clamp but have had it jump off a couple of times, frustrating as hell. Nice looking piece of tooling Tom..
You didn't need to flip the vice around to mill those triangles. Simply flip the part in the vice around the spindle axis and those angles are now on the Y axis as they were before.
that round cylinder square looks a lot like one of mine that I made on the lathe. pretty handy using a black granite tile I got at home depot was flat' latest sweep not so much. there's still a corner that leads to the middle but hey found my squarest square demonstrate some fleemarket find squares for bet you'll find some old rusty one's that'll blow your mind thanks tom got one of those huntsman mig welders just love that helmet always be my favorite
Always super interesting Tom, enjoying this series I am!
Good video, great advice. Note: did not realize that Shasta made a good lubricant, lol. Thank you!
You do amazing work! Love the channel.
Looking good so far. I bet you get it to 1 millionth or some other almost unobtainable accuracy. Ahl be baak for the next part. (I am still an Arnold fan).
You got to separate Arnold the man from Arnold the actor, two different people.
I envy that bat cave of yours Tom! All those wonderful toys -the surface grinder I would die for mate. Keep the loaf coming buddy.
Can we get the sequel video sir? I would like to see how that finishes :)
Nice trick with the rubber bands!
Man Tom that was a HUGE cut on that one side edge, hell even .003" is deep on my t&p, but i'm grinding dry for the moment, gotta weld up a pvc wier tank for coolant. Got all the stuff, just lack the time.
Ps. Thanks for getting back to the vids!
With small step overs it works fine. You can take even more than that safely. Just think like a centerless grinder.
Cheers,
Tom
Love this video, watched it a few times now.
enjoyed cant wait to see the finished piece
Forgot about earth clamp, lots of times. I'm wondering what's happening to the printing press? Thanks Tom.
Hey! Yer draggin that file backwards again lol. Thanks for the vid Tom. Im on the lookout for a surface grinder!
Like the Isle of Man sticker on your welding mask
MAN TOM ID VISIT THAT BAND SAW SO MUCH IF I LIVED CLOSE LOVE IT !!!!! thanks for sharing
Loving the TT sticker! Greetings from the Isle of Man :)
This is hypnotizing. Thanks for sharing!
Tom Lipton and Stefan Gotteswinter star in: "The World's Most Accurate Fidget Spinner Showdown"! No plans, just mano-a-mano for run-out and rotation time. What a showdown that would be!
Poncho likes bacon With robrenz quietly smiling in the background for some reason…
If Robin wants to join in it's open to all comers. This Old Tony, Mr. Crispin, Joe Pie, let's have a pissing contest!
Oh! Nice Plexiglas pry-bar. I'm stealing that idea :)
Hah, You spotted that!
Cheers,
Tom
Man, I just started building the 123 block, now you are showing something else?! Great video as always though.
Outstanding project Tom.
Bill from Seattle.
I have never forgotten the ground clamp 😉
Yeah!!! Me too. Almost never!
When working in an extremely noisy shop years ago, I forgot to turn on the welder. At least it wasn't on video.
15,430 views/witnesses ;o)
O,,,
Ive been welding for 31 years.. holding 5 thou tollerances on stainless..and I forget aLL THE TIME..YOURE EITHER THE BIGGEST LIAR OR THE BEST GROUND GUY TO WALK THE EARTH..BUT i DOUBT EITHER IF YOU NEVER MAke mistakes
And then think, he could have easily edited that out, but he didn’t Says something with just that, does it not?
Great project Tom. Matt C.
You are very clever and deserve a lot of biscuits
Waiting for the heat treatment! Greetings from Finland!
Good video, Mr. Ox.
I enjoy your videos. A suggestion for a name, Slide Form, or Tap Form, kinda obvious but simple and easy to live with.
My bet on how much it will have moved after heat treat is .011"
Very nice work Tom.
Very nice video. Congratulations !
great... always a pleasure to watch
Tom, that master square is looking real good so far, It'l be interesting to see how it fare's after heat treat.
Tom, you should have age (old) the part after welding. It can be distorted, bent with time. Aging can be speed up by placing in fire, and then slow cool down
a master of chip control.... I love it
I assume that the heat treat would stress relieve the block some.. Not sure of that's correct. Would it have been a good idea to heat the whole part to stress relieve before doing the rough grinding before heat treat? I like the setup for milling out the triangles.. I assume that they were mainly for looks. If going for weight I would think you could mill rectangles in the flat sides that mate the plates before welding.. I look forward to seeing this project finished. Thanks for the video..
Hi Max,
The neat thing about case hardening is you get both qualities in one part. A hard tough exterior and a soft ductile core. We will see about long term stability I guess. Easy enough to monitor. Mass and weight are you friends when it comes to stuff like this. Its the old if its heavy it must be quality and precise......
Cheers,
Tom
Chewy on the inside and crunchy on the outside like an armadillo or a dime bar! Maybe that joke only works in Europe?
Thanks, I understand the case hardening process.. I'm was curious about the project changing shape since it's manly all cold rolled steel. I know that machining will also allow the material to distort.. Guy Lautard mentioned it in one of his bedside reader books. As I understand the heat treat process. The metal is heated to a point that allows carbon to be introduced into the surface making the surface harder..Still have a can of Kasenit around here someplace. I'm thinking that at that temp any stress due to the cold rolling of the base pieces would be relieved causing the part to shift. Also the welding would create more stress in the part. I was wondering if it would have been a good idea to stress relieve the part before initial finishing and heat treat.
I know this is old
This was sent for heat treatment? What kind of steel was this? The base (1st part) looked like 2x2 1/4 hot rolled?
The sides might be tool steel but look like plate?
LoL Yay I'm not the only one who forgets the ground clamp!
I am likeing Toms Truss Square.
That is a better name than composite. Its a nod to the Pratt Whitney truss design level and snap gages. Look them up as they are pretty cool looking.
Best,
Tom
Tom's Truly True Truss Square?
When ever I made weldments, they were always stress relieved first for stability, then Heat Treated for hardness and then drawn back.
Did you ever do the carburizing and grinding on this? I'd love to see the finished product!
So! How's the square holding up? Is anything moving? I hope not! *fingers crossed*
Something from the woodworking machinery world.... a 1/8NPT thread would allow the use of a headless pipe plug that has a nice shallow taper to it. Would make getting the gnat's hair adjusted out.
Whoa are you welding on 1.5" ground stock plate?!! You get to play with all of the toys
Hi Kenny. Its actually two inches thick. I had the rough stock plate of my welding table blanchard ground. It was actually pretty cheap at $500 and free delivery. Cheers. Tom
first comment! thanks Tom, really appreciate the opportunity to learn that these videos present.
Hey Emma,
Thanks for stopping by!
All the best,
Tom
Was their ever a follow up video of this after the heat treatment or did it not survive the process
Did a follow up video ever get made? The heat treat and final finishing?
I'm just wondering why not do a stress-relief heat treatment after welding to remove the welding stresses and the material stresses. That way it doesn't move pretty much at all in hardening or if it moves much, then the heat treater is to blame.
Tom where do you get your heat treatment done ? I have some small iron surface plates I want to have stabilized. Cast local here in California to.
Silly question or maybe its obvious but what is that white material the sparks are hitting on your surface grinder? I assume its to stop the sparks from going further and to get them to drop down but it looks like material of some sort but it isn't getting burnt by the sparks.
Could you have made some lighting cuts on the sides of the tube that have the plates added? I see the benefits of grinding those sides flat, but it seems to me that leaving only a few "bars" of material across the face and ribs along the sides for welding would be sufficient and there would be more weight removed. Interesting project anyway.
with the grinding wheel, do you notice the wear across a surface like the side of that object?
why do they use that vertical saw thing. is that like the big guns for milling flatness?
I notice you used a hammer with non metal faces (soft) I use a small copper hammer that does not take much to move. I did buy a hammer like you used also an liked them fine. I do want a nice shot loaded Numpla to use since my big Orange hammer busted out the faces after years of service. Your hammer interest and choices are fun to see. Is there a video where you discuss the differences and why? I can get one to send you for a gift I bet you do not have or may even never seen. Regards, Lew
Hi Lou. I do have a shot loaded Nupla somewhere in the rack. The one on camera is a LIxie and is also shot filled. I prefer wood handles on my hammers. I seem to recall the Nupla has a plastic handle. I have not done a video on dead blow hammers. Might be a good one. Cheers, Tom
What's up with all the bearing noise from the surface grinder? Are the bearings a little sad? Is it a hydraulic drive?
How stable is structural tubing for a master square? Or will it be stress relived and normalized in heat treat?
Why don't grinders always grind a slightly uphill slant as you feed the workpiece across the wheel (not the back and forth horizontal, but the steady motion perpendicular to the repetitive horizontal axis)? Doesn't the wheel wear away and effectively become further from the surface the longer it is used?
Another great video. What is your clean up after using the NOGA Cool Mist? I have a mill about identical to yours except it says EISON and I am concerned with rust under the vise after using the Cool Mist. Do you dismount your vise to clean after using the mister either on your mill or surface grinder?
Shop vac. The surface under the mag chuck is prepared and protected prior to mounting the chuck. Once you have the mag chuck trued up you generally leave it as long as possible.
oxtoolco how do you prep the surface under the chuck so it won't rust? I just got a surface grinder and am wondering what will I find under there. Not sure if I'll take it off yet, waiting to hook it up and see how flat it is first.
Great job !!!
Which material did you use for this project. Apologies if you said and I missed it
Nice one. A follow up, anytime soon?
Can you elaborate on your choice to use 4 flexures instead of three? I know you can get something to sit on four points but it's much easier to use three, no? Also, caught the lexan pinch bar for the mag chuck ... NICE! Thanks for the video.
For squarish bases four points is more stable. The Hermann Schmidt has four lapped feet on it for this reason. Its over constrained but more stable in this situation. Three flexures would have been awkward with this design so I opted for symmetry. Cheers,
Tom
I really enjoy your videos a? if I may, What material is your welding mask? shield? made of?
Treated fiber paper stuff. Old school Huntsman hood.
Thank you for the response, I was thinking some sort of composition, or perhaps even leather. It looks cool, and light.
GREAT VIDEO !!
I LOVE this video (and all of yours Tom!) .. I am sorry if I am missing something- is there a follow up video to this, inspecting after getting it back from heat-treat and finish grinding etc? I would love to know what happens from here! Thank you
Hi Tom, will you be able to include any footage of the heat treatment process for this Master Square.
Mark Fryer I second this though. I'd love to see how they treat such a large item.
How's the square's stability so far? Any measurable changes?
You been to IOM TT? Sticker on weld helmet. You do. Anything with motorbikes?