Toolroom Vise V Block
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- In this video I finally get around to making a dedicated v-block for the toolroom vise. This setup is great for doing end work on rounds and squares standing up in the vise. This particular vblock is unique in that it attaches without removing the standard hard jaws first. Made from A-2 tool steel this vee block will be heat treated and ground for perpendicularity in an upcoming video. STEP and PDF available for folks that want to make their own.
I like it - Not the biggest fan of the reliefcut on the back, but I like the rest a lot!
Thanks Tom!
I was thinking exactly the same thing! Why lose rigity where there could be. Might even snap at the bottom of the v if someone got too heavy handed
i reckon the relief would be fine for most situations, but for the purposes of lightening a pocket probably would have been superior.
I was about to make some smart ass comment about haters on RUclips that never even been in a machine shop. Then I noticed the name and thought isn't that the guy I see on this old tony videos all the time?
I like your work also Stefan. I watched your grinder video for carbide. Well done.
Nice nice. I agree with Stefan (cause I want him to put out another vid) 😁. I do have a question though about the releifs. How would you know the MAX relief to put in before you might be worried about distortion? Thx for all ur vids. 👌🇨🇦
Why would you relieve the back surface? It just kinda seems counterintuitive to me. Now you're clamping against thin air, and it's gonna flex a little, probably not by much, but still. Could you comment on that a little? Thanks.
Only reason why i guess is to reduce the surface contact you need to make 2 parts fit together.Like stool with 4 legs will rock a bit on most surfaces ,if you have 3 legs it will not rock on anything.
Maybe im using wrong terms ,english is not my main language.
You could leave a strip in the middle and get the same effect without getting any flex .
Relief cut on the back prevents any rocking of the plate. The vee block I have been using for this previously has a similar relief cut. You indicate after clamping so any movement is cancelled out. Cheers. Tom
@@oxtoolco Yeah, that's true, I didn't think about it. Thanks for your explanation and your videos. They really taught me a lot.
I completely agree, the relief on the back is a terrible idea. It's going to spring. Ox tool said you indicate after tightened the vise, which is true. But... You better tighten the vise to the exact same torque if you load another part.
You can also prevent any rocking, by grinding it flat. I thought the vee block was great until, I seen the relief.
A fine fixture for sure. Tho the relief cut, as many has said is probably pointless and more of a problem in the future. The back surface is either way being ground flat and it could even be lapped to extreme flatness so it would probably not rock one bit, and the stiffness would be superior.
Countersinking the threaded holes is one of those pure gold tips that I would never have thought of in a million years.
Likewise the idea of tapping the insides of the vise bolts.
Nice, but..
won't the back relief allow the fixture to flex and change the ref position with vice pressure?
I'm worried that back relief will cause the entire block to crack in two. A2 is pretty tough, but hardened stuff doesn't like being flexed.
That's something I was worried about as well while watching
Yeah doesn't make sense. A flexible vblock?
@@johns208 Ummm... And how is this any different than every one of those other hardened v-blocks sitting on the mill table, that are all factory 'relieved' on the bottom of every block as well?
@@highpwr this relief is quite a lot wider... leverage
Band saw blades are cheaper than end-mills for material removal! -- Cool trick to keep blade from flexing away on angled surface cut.
I saw that ninja brush anti-deflection maneuver as well, it's the little tidbits like that you can never get in a classroom.
@@johnbirkholz994 that's what the back of my chip brush is for. Don't need a classroom or RUclips, it's common sense
Tom, Great 1st part of the video. But unfortunately I have to pause the video and go to work. Looking forward to the rest 😀
even watching you do layout, it reminded me of the simplest techniques that are totally lost on most folks that didn't go through proper pencil and paper drafting or machining.
The relief in the back would be a good place for Tom to stamp his name and the date before he heat treats it.
relief there is stupid. It just allows the thing to flex when clamped.
"They don't have a specific function, is what I'm trying to say"...so what you're really saying is they are speed holes!
lightening holes, to let the lightening through...
100% drillium.
Agree with the assessment of the smell of Dykem. Another great smell is Hoppes Number 9 gun cleaning solution, highly recommend sniffing!
I love the SMELL of Kroil!
I love smell of bacon frying but i guess that falls outside the workshop parameters. 😆
Jet a
@@adambohm4367 It smells like victory!
@@adambohm4367 It smells like victory!
Great video as always Tom but I am trying to find the PDF plan so i can steal your excellent idea.
Very cool idea! Workholding is 90% of my machining life it seems.
This is the only flat earth channel I can watch. Mainly because he doesn't push it all the time. Just the occasional comment about being square with the world. You're a great machinist but the world is round. Sorry.
I really like your videos this stuff is so cool, but please oh please, try and stop saying "right" at the end of sentences. It just sounds condescending, right....?
What where is the rest that ended way to fast. Seriously thank you Tom that was amazing as usual. I’ll have to patiently wait for the grinding video
It's August of 2021. Has he made the grinding video?
"I love the smell of Dykem in the morning! Smells like victory!"
When you get it done, can you clamp something in it and then run an indicator along the back of the relief to show us what the deflection ends up being? I'm betting it's not going to be a whole lot
Great project Tom, great tapping tips, I thought you had it covered with the first drill, but the second one really needed an explanation (for me anyhow!).
Cheers and looking forward to completion and application!
At 31:10 you're using a milky fluid with the drill, but then later when expanding the holes you are using cutting oil. Can you comment on 1) what that fluid is, and maybe more importantly 2) when you choose to use one vs the other? Always love your project videos; thanks for sharing!!
That’s a neat Little extension that you are using on the 1/8” endmill for the grind relief who makes it and does it have a part number? Great video by the way
Did you really do any layout if you didn't get any on you?
Yeah the stuff is like anti seize.
Toolmaking and philosophy!
Tom can I get a pdf of the v block thanks
What cutting oil do you use?
Oh Brother If I just had a Bandsaw like that :) My saw is a joke and when ever I have to cut something I cry the day before because I know creasy hard its going to get :) I have learned a lot from you over the years and lots of respect. Thank you for sharing and keep it up....
If I could tap holes half as fast as that I’d be happy, that takes some serious practice! Nice work as always 👍🏼
I know you love your blue Dykem. But for fast application, nothing beats a marker pen in XXL, plus it comes off with alcohol.
For all of you young manufacturers out there. This really is how things were machined back in the day. If you needed to drill holes you would
dykem the part and layout out the cross hairs on a surface plate using a height gage. Then you would take a center punch and hammer and
punch all the hole locations. This type of process was still fairly common well into the 90's. Obviously there are better, faster ways to process
a part now BUT there is no better way to learn and appreciate what it takes to be a master craftsman. Great videos Ox!!
“Square with the world” is one of my favorite sayings! Make a t-shirt and I’ll buy it. Something like, “I’m a machinist” ; “I’m square with the world” ; 😀
CDCO has a V jaw for the 6" Kurt for $65. It has 3 vertical Vx and 2 horizontal. Vs are of different sizes. I don't bolt mine in place, instead I just use it as a loosw v-block.
As always another interesting project. I'm thinking I might do make one for myself. Also I think I'll modify the screws holding the vise jaws as you did there. The ability to add plates to quickly mount project in the vise at 30, 45 and maybe 60 degree angles is pretty awesome. Thanks a bunch. BTW, I look forward to seeing you at Chuck Bomarito's meet and greet this coming Saturday.
Someone asked, where to buy A2?
I just priced a piece of A2 (1.5 X 21/4 x 4") Hudson =$41.76. McMaster =$92.35.
I love McMaster but this is a significant price difference.
Hudson is going to get my tool steel business.
So you said several times "I been doing this for a kajillon years". Just exactly how old are you? JK, Nice work as always, I see something like this in my future very soon .
Good job just wondering why you ran the spindle RPM's so high while tapping, I've noticed that at least in my experience running it that fast dulls the tap faster. Most non-machinists have no clue on how much time and effort goes into making something like this, good to see you are at least giving a sneak peak into what it takes.
...need vblocks to make vblock...darnit.
Enjoyed the video, thanks!
I wouldn’t have guessed there was anything new to add to V blocks. How naive I was! Always a pleasure to watch Tom’s work!
,
We know...you just wanted to make a tool with "je ne sais quoi"
Great video Tom. I'm curious about why two different drill chucks. It looks like an Albrecht chuck was used to drill and counterbore the mounting holes but for the holes in the body you used a different chuck. Was it because the drill size for the second holes was too large for the first chuck?
Those Albrecht chucks are self-tightening when drilling and if you run a larger drill with higher load it can be a real pain to remove by hand.. Learned that one the hard way!
I've often though about using a precision angle block to square up stock. If you had some kind of square-ish stock you could use a precision angle block to reference it vertically, face it, and repeat 2 more times. Thoughts?
Ok, stupid question from a stupid person. I have always understood that drill type chucks draw the bit in while tightening. Therefore it has been common practice of mine to always leave a blonde one between my chucked tool and bit shank. Am I in error?
Mr. Lipton sir, how do I get the PDF of this V-block. I would like to make a couple.
I'm a big fan of yours!
Thanks, Jeff
Iam so proud for your skill. I have to I will. But booth of your end mills are´t sharp. Next time don´t spend your time with saw and use more leight of your mill. It will hadle it and your machine too....I hope so. By the way....for garage and repair solution nice job man. Thump up! (sorry for my bad language skill)
Thanks Tom,
Will you make a video the grinding of this tool?
Always a pleasure to follow your thought process and see it happen in steel. Damn yet another thing I gotta make LOL
Hi Tom, re the relief you put in the back side, are you not concerned about differences in the clamping load you put on the vice from piece to piece altering the centre of the round stock you're holding relative to the prior or next part? I know it'd be minor, but you are the type to lap things to 1/100th of a micron flatness, so... fair question? :-D
Tom, I like how you always try to show the old/less expensive option along with the new/arm & leg way. Its great to see what the differences are and what features and abilities you add in your designs. Cheers
Who is the manufacturer of those spiffy tweezers? I definitely need a pair or three! Always wanted to be a machinist, but couldn’t figure out how to get the required five years experience, now I am getting the finer points for study at a comfortable rate. Thanks for sharing your experience.
That back relief as you're filing it around 28:11 looks almost scalloped. What's causing that? Is it just an illusion of the light, or perhaps the end mill is flexing issue moving and or the mill is slightly out of tram?
I've had similar issue on parts, but my mill is a tiny little Taig, and I've always just assumed it was a tram or rigidity issue.
Thanks for sharing with us Tom.
Very nice project.
Congratulations from Brazil.
Dav OX TOOLSDav OX TOOLS
I have to made my self a couple of these holding tools. can i get a pdf file.
Greetings from Ivan from Denmark
I enjoyed the setups and fixtures. I sure would have liked to see the finishing after heat treating.
I liked your use of the shop brush held against the blade of the band saw on the angled cut.
Welcome back, yourself. I have been here, where have you been? Good video.
I like it ( the tapped holes in the jaw cap screws ) Nice job on the vee block , Cheers .
So did you heat treat it? 😆😆 sorry, had to after my Instagram comment
Thanks for the video, Tom. See you at the Bar-Z. Jon
@oxtoolco At video time 18:55 what size cutter Is that? Is it a endmill? Also when u were using that bigger end mill what size is that? What speed were you running that bigger end mill at?
Great video hopefully I can get ambitious enough to copy these V blocks.
18:35 whats that long tapered bit holding thing in the quill?
Looks like a combination small diameter bit extension/snapper to me.
i wonder if you couldn't add a couple of pins to those angled jaws to make accurate alignment a snap, tap one down to the vice, tighten, snug the other one and push the pins together, then pull them apart and tigthen
Tom won’t relieving the back surface allow the jig to bend?
Relief cut on the back prevents any rocking of the plate. The vee block I have been using for this previously has a similar relief cut. You indicate after clamping so any movement is cancelled out. Cheers. Tom
@@oxtoolco Thanks for the explanation Tom! Keep 'em coming :)
Nice work Tom! The carbide endmill work great on this A2. I really love your V jaws for the Kurt!
Thanks
Why do you keep bringing up my uncle Bob? My therapist says it isn't my fault.
It's my first time dealing with a milling machine these days, and it's so much fun. There's so much to learn from watching you work, and I'm motivated!~^^
At 33:22 you created your own optical illusion. Is there NO limits to your skills?
Dang that was some high RPM machine tapping there at the end, and into A2 tool-steel too.
OK, how does one get the PDF?
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you need something like this you must be a machinist, so can't you just draw up your own plans, or just wing it as you machine a lump of metal. Does yours have to be a perfect copy of Tom's or just do the same job? I am curious why people need plans of something so simple in concept to follow.
@@chrisstephens6673 Only asking because Tom said a PDF was available.
@@vendter fair enough, but i hope you have more faith in your abilities than the question could imply. 😞
@@chrisstephens6673 Wow! I am amazed at how clairvoyant some people are. They seem to know everything about you. Maybe I keep a file at home (full of actual paper) with projects that I may want to do at some time in the future. Maybe I want to send it to a friend. No where did I say I needed the PDF for make the part. Don't let what you don't know let you look like the rear end of a moke.
@@vendter there was me trying boost your confidence and you took it the wrong way, oh well perhaps i should have put "please don't take it the wrong way" in capitals. 😯
Nice idea Tom.
Hay Tom, if you now have got 2 of them, you could use the 2 reamed holes for sliding them along some good rod for an extending V Block, and the 3 boults could be used for locking screws, just a thought buddy, Lovely job on them, I like the idea of screwing them in to the vice jaw boults, 👍🏻😉
As always Tom a pleasure to watch and learn .... with respect to the back relief and the issue of flex ..... not quite sure how tight you guys pull up your vice jaws when gripping a part !? 🤔 Regards
Robert PARTSMADE 🇬🇧
Tom Lipton, just stop...!
I have enough cool projects to build, I don't need another...lol..only kidding great video!
It is sad to say that watching grass grow is more entertaining than watching this video.
Nice work Tom, love all the ideas.
Tomorrow first thing I am going to drill and tap 10-32, the bolts in my vise.
Tom, is the end mill for the relief groove carbide or something else?
I love it. Order of operations comes to mind. Thank you for sharing. Also where can I get an ox sticker for my shop?
Question ? the 6 tapped holes for clamping , couldn't you have reamed the weight reducing holes after drilling and tapping to remove internal burrs ? Really cool project and great explanation , entertaining as usual , glad Mr. Bozo didn't stop by
Just a thought, if you are tapping like that with a single phase machine, you must wait till it stops before reversing out, if you don't the mill will continue turning in the forward direction, breaking your tap in the job, or worse, obviously that machine is 3 phase, where it is not a problem. cheers Peter Smith
Looks like a great project to do for my personal tools... Can always use another v-block and that's a really nice design. Thanks for sharing!
You have some good ideas incorporated into you V blocks and your workmanship is excellent. Now are you ready to make another one because believe it or not there’s room for improvement. Everyone makes their V blocks with 45 degree angles but I make them with 30 degree angles. This way you can hold larger diameters in your vice and under your mill there also will me more room. Also while assembling or disassembling mechanical parts where physical exertion is needed you will find that things are a lot more stable and safe on the work bench due to a lower centre of gravity without making them wider than standard as you have done. I guarantee that if you do this you will be glad that you did.
Hi Tom, another great job and tool added. I have made many of your creations myself now as I find the wisdom of your build will surely come in handy down the track and to be fair having them allows me options now on jobs and I don’t seem to have those scratch my head moments. Tom, a quickie please, is there any rhyme or reason regarding the quill v knee usage when milling, do you have a quick way to decide as I don’t always know and this is a newbie question so please look past my ignorance. Many thanks in advance
Every shop i ever worked in i ended up making vee block for a mill vise . Just to keep trhings moving and not wasting time in constant set ups or bluing .
My shop teacher in vokie believed in fixtures n jigs. It stuck if i saw we did more then 10 or 12 . I got my head in tooling mode. The more you make them the easier and quicker the tooling came together. Thanks
A-2 after heat treatment is going to become very brittle the relief behind V would easily brake if over tightening of vise and if left soft will eventually bend also bolting to vice I use either back jaw stop or table stop all said I love shop made tooling it is unique to the builder and the products they work on nice machine work
A real pleasure to watch you work as always Tom, but I'm worried that you are beginning to sound a bit too much like Stephen Root here... ruclips.net/video/meCZ5hWNRFU/видео.html
😂
Really enjoyed the video. Serious noob here, and would like to get the PDF. Please direct me as to how I may get it. Thank you and looking forward to the second half.
That's a heck of a big piece of A2 you're working with! Where do you buy it at reasonable prices???
As far as the holes go (29:23), won't those help avoid warpage and cracking during heat treat?
Haha, straight up and down with the world...I suppose in this instance that little rods world would be the machines axeses.
I see a fair amount of comments on the back relief. I'm fine with that . If you're doing a 100 parts and you only want to dial in the 1st you can simply Gauge block the center to minimize deflection. I think Tom was focused on maintaining the timing of the part from one operation to another. Nevertheless another interesting and educational video from a master toolmaker.
Nice tool ! I like the fact it is very adaptable in its use. Dont worry they wont ever change layout dye from its laquer base. I like the spray for large areas also the bandsaw ckampling fixture. Lots of echo in the audio might try hanging up a piece or two of strandboard or thick curtain on chains up towards the ceiling to break that up a bit.
Great video Tom,thanks for sharing your good knowledge with us,I really appreciate and respect it,coming from one of your subscriber in Trinidad and Tobago,a Caribbean country.God bless you.
I like that little trick with the larger diameter drill on the upper portion of a tapped hole. I've always done it with a chamfer tool, but you end up with a much bigger diameter that way. Cheers, Tom. Always appreciate your videos, and the time it takes to make them!
Hi Tom, nice work.
What is the small endmill holder shown at 18:26 on the vice, and used shortly afterwards?
It looks like a collet extension, would be handy for my mill as it has no quill and the spindle nose is quite wide which makes it tricky to get down into some tight spots.
Hey Tom, how do you think that the v-block method compare to using a lathe chuck in the mill for work on round parts held with the part in the same axis as the cutter as in your first use example?
hi it is a nice little project . but by releasing the back it would jeopardize the integrity of the block .and also by c boring the two hole you can have a good mounting opportunity on a square block or angle plate for milling or grinding long pin
why i ignored this guy for some weeks when finding videos on machining is even strange to me. thanks man ..... may be if you are here on the comment section i need videos on helical gear cutting and curves on rotary table....
G'day Tom, I noticed you used coolant for the first drill then cutting oil for the larger drill. Why not just keep going with the coolant?
Seems like a vertical stop of some kind might be handy. Optional attachment.
LOVE that bandsaw...
Does anyone know what type of holder was being used for the small endmill to cut the relief ? That looks like a good way to hold a small cutter down in a channel or vee. Thank you for the video.
Nice tool, where would I find the PDF of your drawing?
The holes with no specific purpose give you mounting options you haven't considered yet.
Thanks Tom.