Yes, this would be good to see. Maynard is a wise man but also quite provocative. He's fairly well grounded, so I'm sure he would be able to provide a respectful and balanced response to Pastor Houghton 's react video.
Maynard's mother was in a wheelchair and the people of her church said that if she had been a better Christian she wouldn't have ended up in a wheelchair. So he wrote this song based on that experience.
@@devinbullard7304 more than an attack, I think is an angry critique to the religious people who twist God's teachings and pretend to be better than their neighbor
Maynard knows, I.e. Gnostic, like John the Baptist or Judas Thomas. It’s fun to watch a devoted one encounter hells bottomless pit and not Know what he is even looking at. Naive Christians read the books literally. It’s easier to bury your head in sand and believe the whole world is a desert. Thank you @M Byrd for your clarification.
that stament from a group that u call brotherhood in a church saying to u: "u were bad" is the end for the beliving of someone or aproching a problem. instead of help they took a beat stick and throw the stone, Jesus didnt point no one but we do it. the bad christian were that church
Just to note, he is not mad at Christianity in it's pure essences. He's mad at the hypocrisy of many Christians. Many members of the Christian Church his mom belonged to said that her sickness was caused by her own sinfulness and ostracized her. It can be found in his biography, The Perfect Union of Contrary Things
I disagree. If he was primarily angry at the fact that the congregation had abandoned her, then why would he put so much emphasis on the fact that he thinks God, Christ, and the saints have abandoned her while never mentioning her fellow followers once in the entire song? If what you say is true, then that is bad songwriting in my opinion.
MetalTheory What? Read the biography, it’s not as simple as blaming one more than the other. His mother was treated poorly by her church, he is talking about people like that AND angry at her for her belief.
@@brandonharwood9066 Note that he sings 'F *your*' God, and '*your* Lord and *your* Christ', as others have stated, it is not an attack on those who love Jesus, rather to those who were hateful and uncharitable in Jesus name (wolves in sheep's clothing?!)..
I'm agnostic. I have the same problems with Christianity as Maynard plus dozens more, despite the pastor's clarification. However, their reactions to the song is as fair as can be. They stayed positive, open minded, and gave condolences. Christians like these have a particular charm to them that I admire. This gets a like. 👍
Maynard didn't understand his mother a witness to him and everyone listening and debating the song! Judas understood, my life is a witness my struggles more powerful than anything I can say. I get it becauuse I've been in a wheelchair 38 years a quadriplegic my life and struggles say more than I could Preach and when you see all that I'm going through and I still have joy and love my heart It makes others want what I have. I find it interesting peoplee can believe In Aliens with technology far beyond our understanding but they can't believe in someone not from this world with the knowledge of all things we don't.
@@brians1071 Then you're incredible for maintaining that strength. I'd have to find my strength elsewhere in that position. Through my own power fueled by inspiration from Bruce Lee and David Goggins. Plus, with a universe as unimaginably vast as ours, I find aliens having advanced technology more plausible than a being that's just all powerful by default with no explanation and has oddly specific gender, ethnic and nationality roles.
These are the Christians that actually follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, kindness to everyone even your enemies, don't judge others based on their opinions, words, or deeds, preach the word without pushing it on others.
@@reaperwb39 The crazy thing is. 8 days ago, I became a born again scientist. I still don't exactly know who's incharge, but I confirmed their to be 3 side, and none them are evil. There's only green or red.
@@brians1071 The reality is, despite your truly unfortunate and regrettable circumstances, there is no evidence for a god, at least not one that is defined as such in any of the current monotheistic religions. Monotheism in all its current flavors defines god as being omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent. This can, however, not be the case in any combination of the three that is expressed and experienced daily across the globe. People often retreat to the notion that evil, harm, and wanton suffering are the result of human action, 'free will', but this is systemically not the case. For example, consider illness, various bone cancers in children, these have nothing to do with the choices/actions of the parents, and certainly nothing to do with any voluntary choices amongst the children afflicted. Yet they remain terminal and condemned, to suffer and live a few months longer, or give up and not suffer more than requisite by whatever god is held responsible. The truly 'faithful', despite the horrid indifference to human suffering, will still fall back on the idea that everything is 'god's plan', thus they did not suffer needlessly. This is, of course, wrong in every sense that it can be wrong. The suffering is, by their own definition, of god's creation alone. Thus, god has created that entity for the explicit function of creating suffering. That suffering, as its purpose, is somehow pleasing to god. No matter if this is a fallacy and god does not exist to create such a thing, or if it is accurate and god does, I find the entire subject repulsive. There is no god, and if there is, that god is a criminal.
I'm an agnostic but this video was very refreshing to watch, the open mindedness and lack of fear to objectively analyze something you don't agree with is what the world needs
Pablo Arias Hear hear. I was raised in a Methodist home during my childhood. When my brother died, my belief followed. I turned to polytheism and eventually, became an atheist. This song is eerily relatable for me, as my brother had a highly vascular brain tumor on the brain stem, and science said he would not live beyond the age of five. He died eleven years later, age 16. Against all medical odds, he survived, only to die later. I could not reconcile it with my faith, and so it had to go.
Agreed very much. As a Christian, I listen to all kinds of Rock and metal and see the perspectives. I've been through a lot personally and I connect with it. This is a concept that is lost to the modern world. Open mindedness is dead.
Jack Carroll Very true. And very sad. I just fell head over heels in love with a newer band. SKYND. Their inspiration is the darker parts of the human experience, and their songs, lyrics, and videos are an interpretative study of killers and suspicious deaths. I can see the artistry within it, and respect the musicality of it without being a sick person.
Pablo Arias me too!!!! I was very impressed at their openness to real hear the music and appreciate it at an emotional and artistic and even talent view. It was def refreshing !
Another agnostic here. I agree with you, their openness makes me want to listen to more of their channel. This world needs more people willing to listen to those with other opinions.
Lots of people blame God for things then become atheist lol. Makes no sense to me. The book clearly states that the bad guy is some one else. But more importantly, no supreme being would be affected by temper tantrums.
Fortune Mak3r But God is the ultimate boss...he could easily choose to get rid of the "bad guy.” Instead he chooses to let him run rampant...why? What purpose does that serve?
@@CosmicEpiphany Free will. If you dont have free will you are a robot. Its one way or the other. If He wanted robots He would have made robots. Eventually humans will see the big picture. And it was very patient of Him to *allow* us the time to explore this sandbox of misery.
Shot friend, they have to look on the bright side. (Id explain that all the Abrahamic religions come from the Sumerians but I don't want to rain on the parade) I guess one picks the belief system that one feels comfortable with.
He's not insulting the religion itself but rather the judgemental jerks you find in the church. Her church congregation told his mother that is was her fault she had a stroke and wound up in a wheelchair because she was a bad Christian.
Why is it surprising that the song is good & not “bad”? Maynard is amongst the absolute best of vocalists in the heavy rock genre. His voice is distinctive & powerful. His incredible talent for writing lyrics & melodies is like no other. I would say his talent is God gifted; genius level. Take it as it comes….it’s so powerful & emotive. Maynard is a legend to a lot of us
He is experiencing a form of dissonance. The song is obviously amazing, but he should hate and rebuke it. And/or he is doing a bad job of expressing himself.
I don't believe in God, I did at one point in my life, but the fact that you will listen to a song against Christ and not judge, is amazing, I can listen to your side all day... Keep it up my man
I watch pretty much every reaction to Tool and APC songs, and I’ve got to say a pastor reacting to Judith is one of the most interesting perspectives I never knew I even wanted. During this time in Maynard’s life he was full of anger and resentment toward his mother’s faith after a stroke had left her crippled since he was 11 years old. If you’d like to see an accepting and vulnerable side of him I’d recommend listening Wings for Marie and 10,000 days which is an intimate 17 minute song of him explaining how he feels during and after she’s passed. Alternatively Right in Two is a good listen as it’s a story told from the perspective of angels looking down and giving their opinion on humankind.
I read the lyrics to Wings last night. I'm excited to hear it! I'll definitely be doing a video on it. I'll check out the others as well. I'm learning he's a great lyricist and able to communicate emotion in a way that gets right to your heart.
@@roberthoughton7127 Wings for Marie part 1 and then Wings for Marie part 2 (10,000 days), you should react to both. It is important to know that when he wrote Judith, she was still alive but suffering and paralyzed apparently for 27 years (roughly 10000 days). he wrote Wings for Marie part 1 and 2 after her death, and you can clearly see the change in him. His criticism i think is aimed more toward the hypocrisy in his mother's congregation, rather than Christianity itself
For people who aren't absolute crazed Tool fans such as myself, I can obviously understand why people (especially religious people) will have this reaction. If you read the biography of Maynard James Keenan you will see that at the time this happened to his mother, the local church community abandoned her and some even blamed her saying that it was her fault for being a "bad christian." You can see why Maynard would harbor animosity towards the church. Like most of Tool's work, Maynard's lyrics can be much more complex than they seem. Tool songs are often misinterpreted because most casual fans are not going to put in the work to really find out what the song writer is trying to say. IMHO, this song is more of Maynard's scathing indictment of Christianity and how some branches have twisted the teachings of Jesus for their own self interest. Maynard has always been critical of "Group Think" and challenging his audience to "Think for themselves and Question Authority." The Tool album "Aenima" is a great example of this as several of the songs and the album title itself have dual meanings where they can be taken as juvenile or serious topics. It depends on the point of view of the listener. Like most great art, it's subjective and designed to make you think.
agreed but he's also too artsy fartsy his music since lateralous n enima have been too much!! bk to the basics time. i seen them n they had no opening show no encore no actual concert shirts n ok i can handle that that seems ego but he has always been like that. just won't go to the concerts n just listen to the old album. this was the Only decent song on all of perfect circles album.
I grew up a Christian. My uncle was paralyzed from the neck down in a car crash when he was 18 years old. At the time his girlfriend was nine months pregnant, and he was talking to scouts from the NBA. He After the wreck he became a devout Christian and always talked about how the accident saved his life. He was in a wheelchair the rest of his life, only able to move his arms at the shoulders and his neck. He died seven years later because the hospital didn't know how to take care of him. That wreck didn't save him. He was my Judith
What kind of God does that to people, or allows children to be abused, or refuses the prayers of kids who's mother is dying or mothers who's child is starving, if their God is real he is a POS, he could intervene in the suffering but refuses to, but he intervenes to help Tim Tebow win a fucking football game? Or to help Copeland get a new private jet?
So the nba and having money is the ultimate outcome for life? Money, material items? How do you know the wreck didn’t save him from a life of degenerate behavior? Most rich celebrities are drug addicts and miserable with life. You’re guided by desire, money, full of anger. You will suffer until you forgive your mother and come to Christ. Stop chasing baseless desires.
The song doesn't strike me as being about "why did this bad thing happen to my mom, Judith?" Maynard isn't questioning the reason WHY it happened. He's questioning his mother's unwavering devotion to her god (and specifically her church and the people in it) even AFTER a bad thing happened to her, regardless of whether or not she deserved it or whether she was a good or bad person/Christian. He literally says in the song that her god (read: the church/people in it) abandoned her, yet she still prays, she never strays. It's pretty obvious he's venting. He's not wondering why something horrible happened to a good person. He can't change that after the fact. But he's pissed at mommy dearest for doubling down on her faith after her fellow Christians turned their backs on her.
Maynard isn’t mad at God, he’s upset how his mothers church stated that “maybe this happened to you because of you”. He felt that her church gave her no compassion at the current issue she was going thru and never really helped her when she needed them the most. (According to an interview he gave).
Thank you. I’m tired of people saying that Maynard just hates religion and spirituality so much. He’s obviously hurt and angry over his moms death and channeled it into this song.
I'm terminally ill and I have a lot of rage against God. I lived my life with kindness, grace and compassion and I'm still dying. It's hard to not be angry at God.
There are no gods, seek solace that you merely return to the oblivion from whence you emerged. No punishment, no reward, just non-existence. The anticipation of that return is the price of consciousness. Peace and best of luck.
You guys completely missed the entire point of the song. His mother was an extremely devout Christian who's faith never wavered after what happened to her. Maynard was disgusted by her so-called "fellow worshippers" who completely abandoned her after her stroke left her paralyzed and wheelchair bound for "10,000 days." It was as if being faced with just how mortal all of them actually were was impossible for them to process. Her church life, which had meant so much to Her, forgot that she existed.
What do you expect from religious zealots. Christianity, the Bible, religion, etc., cannot truly explain why bad things happen to good people, and why good things happen to bad people. Once they figure out the Bible is at best, a history book, which is still filled with great lessons we can still learn from, then they might be able to break the shackles of false doctrine and try to dig for a deeper meaning of life. It’s out there, we just gotta let go of everything we know, and embrace the unknown.
There’s no need to explain why good things happen to ‘bad’ people or why bad things happen to ‘good’ people. The Bible literally says that NO ONE is good. Not a single one. It also says that it rains (bad things) on the just and the unjust alike. Basically, shit happens. Some good. Some bad.
@Jesus Christ you are just now discovering Maynard and "A Perfect Circle"? Congrats!! He's also the lead singer of "Tool" and "Pusifer"; give them a listen.
@@SoDamnMetal There’s zero evidence of any afterlife or god. The way things work and happen in the world are incompatible with a god. And before we start making assumptions about each other like you’re attempting to do, I was a Christian for over 25 years.
I am not a Christian, however, your attitudes and curiosity mixed with your willingness to explore the secular zeitgeist are very very refreshing to me. You guys rock. papa bless.
Fuck no!!!! All they did was judge and put him down for the song. What is it that Christians say? "Only God can judge me"? Stop being hypocritical. That's the problem with religion. Everyone wants to put others down and shun them just because they don't believe what you do.
@@corysmith6990 they didnt just put him down though they dis agreed with some things sure but if all they did was put him down then why did they throughout the video say this song is good that riff is good and then at the end said the lyricism was great i feel like your just look for stuff to hate on man
I had an aunt that believed that going to the doctor was to question the healing ability and faith in Jesus. Even though there were several doctors put in her path along with the chance to able to get to the hospital that could do the best and most for her, did she not think that maybe her faith in Jesus made it possible for those doctors and hospital to be put in her path by him? We will never know but it is possible that he did put those doctors in her path so that she could have been helped. But, she believed that was not putting her faith in Jesus's ability to heal her. Yes God and Jesus can heal anyone at anytime, those are miracles and they do happen but not the majority of the time. This is a topic that can be argued on both sides, not even sides really but can be debated from many angles as to why things happen...is it to test you or to pull you through a difficult situation and make you stronger for it? His ways are not our ways, we can put our faith in Jesus and rightly so but he doesn't promise an easy carefree healthy life, he promises to never leave you or forsake you. There are many circumstances that you cannot battle alone or are strong enough to battle at all, but Jesus is strong enough to do it through you and no it may not be easy and you may not know why but, it is for his glory. And it's ok to talk to him and question, you may not understand why but you can still ask.
This explains it well. Taken from Wikipedia: Keenan's mother suffered a paralyzing cerebral aneurysm in 1976, when Maynard was 11 (the inspiration for creative works such as Tool's songs "Jimmy" and "Wings for Marie" as well as A Perfect Circle's "Judith"). I also wanna add James's sister took them back to the church his mother always went and she was greeted with blame, judgment and negativity. They said she was paying for her sins and she deserved it. All that instead of helping. So his sister told him she would never take him to a church ever again. And so his frustration starts with that. And all this is in his book A Perfect Union of Contrary Things. Amazing book!
That is sad, but one should not mistake God's love for us, and the failings of a church. People are all flawed, God is not. Jesus taught about the blind man, is it the man's sin or his family's sin that caused the blindness? “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” Maynard's mom may have been awesome but with faults like all of us and the church may have been wrong to criticize, but God still loved her. And I'm sure she is comforted in Heaven and feels no more pain. And Maynard had no siblings.
It was his aunt that took him in after his mother died. This guy is just making up his own assumptions and interpretation - read the book, he explains it. The pastor of the church told Maynard his mom was punished by god for her sins... and he was just saying it’s not like she killed someone or pierced Jesus with the spear. Why was she punished so severely Shen she was a decent human being.
Judgement from "people" who think they are better because they go to church and nothing bad ever happened to them. The old testament is written and translated by human beings, printed by human beings and interpreted by human beings. This is why the bible is problematic to me. Human beings are flawed and some have an agenda.
I think he knows it's not literally God that did this. Like his mom sees Jesus as her light, she is his light and is what defines goodness. He is mad and sad and we just so happen to be privileged to hear his process that most of us couldn't begin to articulate. He also dislikes organized religion, so that just brings even more aggression to a song that almost reads like a journal entry. In all of his songs pertaining to his mother you can hear him struggle to understand his mom's faith, but also entertain the perspective as if she is right. He's not shy to switch voices and switch tones within a song and sort of expose the internal struggles he's enduring. I think despite the rhetoric of this song, you would enjoy many of the songs from his band TOOL. Wings for marie part 1 and 2 are about his mom and beautifully composed. Research 10,000 days. Her congregation suggested she was paralyzed basically because she was evil or being punished. Sorry for the length. There is much to discuss when it comes to MJK. Thanks for the reaction.
Yeah, she got divorced, the church kicked her out and told her God was punishing her because of that ,"why she had an aneryism". They should research more. Read his book !! Tells the whole story.
Agreed. Context always helps. Still a solid reaction, especially for a first listen with minimal knowledge. I love seeing people with various perspectives or ideologies interpret Tool, APC, and Puscifer.
Maynard really opened himself up, and was able to communicate clearly what had to have been an amazing amount of personal anger, pain and confusion. Then to be able to turn around and open himself up AGAIN, and communicate clearly and honestly, his updated understanding, enlightenment and acceptance in “Wings for Marie pts 1 & 2” is even more stunning. The last line in part 2 just says it all. Really just a master class in writing from the heart.
Something you have to understand about maynard, he’s extremely quiet about his personal life. He hates organized religion yes but has on multiple occasions said this song does not necessarily portray his feelings on god.
The fact that we live in this world were everybody is glued to their smartphone, we have high technology etc. and some people still think that some 'God' is hiding somewhere is joke by itself.
@@viennala2528 how is that a joke? Smartphones don't even come close to the vastness of Earth and space and universes that have all been created by a higher being. We are tiny in the vast scope of everything that's created.
yeah i don't understand how some people can think we are just here by accident... just look at how things work together in nature, or the fact what we have a conscience even scientists get to a certain point in where they begin to refer to things as " God particle/molecule" because they can't explain things and have to theorize... as a former Agnostic i understand how people can be godless especially those who've only known heartache... but without bad we would not know good, so it is quite literally a neccesary evil. organized religion has nothing to do with spiritually and faith as far as i'm concerned
You really should do a little more research. She was abandoned by her church and blamed for her paralysis and she still stayed true in her faith. The whole ordeal angered Maynard because he felt that she didnt deserve to go through that and that God turned his back on her. Huge part of why he is so critical about the Christian faith
@old rabidus there is a difference between Faith and religion in that Faith is the core, God and Jesus, God and Mohammed and the basic principles which is usually broken down to the golden rule. Religion steps in and screws all this up with rules based spin chosen writings by fallible men written and transcribed thousands of times through many languages long after the actual events that more often than not cause division and hate. In this song he is speaking of her congregation and how they abandoned her when she needed them most after all she gave to her church and how he watched her take the burden of blame for her illness hence the lyric being "Fuck your god" and not fuck God. Listen again to the song and lyrics as a whole and at a deeper level.
I appreciate your efforts to break this down in a constructive manner. I do think you may have missed some of the point of the song though. Maynard isn't a believer. He is speaking contextually within the framework of his mother's concept of Christianity. Your bit about "He creates the light, and the darkness" is on point, but not in the way you think. Toward the end of her life, Maynard was sickened by his mother's continued devotion to her faith, because by her own standard "God" did this to her. Maynard himself doesn't think "God" did anything to her, but rather, that "He" did in the context of Judith's beliefs, and her lack of self awareness in that respect was the issue. He saw that it was indicative of a pattern of abuse between his mother, and her concept of "God".
Exactly. I think if they had a better knowledge of Maynard they might have understood where he was coming from. But they can't be expected to do that kind of research.
@@johickey3158 most reaction channels don't do the research of what they're listening to, but hey, they had a close perspective of what the song was about and they do enough research with the rest of their videos with really good perspectives, I suggest watching their channel
@@FMRadio94 i disagree, this is a pastor ( a man of God) who presents himself as knowledgeable and "deep" how can you disseminate without research, he's going to slag an artist off he better come with evidence, no wonder your political system is the mess it is with this attitude, some of us pay great attention to the words and behavior of our fav bands over decades, sold out use to be a thing, take it from an old brit punk, this shit means something
Maynard has not changed his opinion about what he felt was his mother’s misplaced faith by the time he wrote Wings 1 & 2, but I think he acknowledges his mother’s innate goodness as a person despite her motivations for being good, while at the same time being condescending and angry that she went to the grave never questioning what he saw as her ridiculous beliefs. MJK please correct me if I’m wrong. 😏
@@BricktowneMedia You may already know about this but the generally recommended way to investigate what you're talking about is listening to the "Secret Song" which is 10,000 days with Viginti Tres and Wings for Marie layered on top of it. here: ruclips.net/video/EFjEp79zaNw/видео.html
The fact that you kept listened to this with such an open mind to the actual meaning behind what was being said was amazing. Christianity needs more guys like you. You earned a sub man. Kudos.
You have made an even bigger error in approaching a work of art as an example of preaching, which it is not. He is expressing what he feels about his own situation and his perspective on it. He never claims that his FEELINGS about his mother's faith are any sort of doctrine, he is only expressing his FEELING about her faith in the face of her struggle and how it is affecting him personally. There is really no debating that this song isn't a very good example of catholicism , but it's equally undeniable that it's a song, art, expression. Yes it is open to interpretation by whomever happens to listen to it , but it isn't offered as anything other than what it is at it's most basic. Music.
Where does Catholicism come in? Catholicism doesn't equal Christianity. Christianity is bigger than Catholicism. Anywho, I think our friend here did a good job of enjoying the music as music. But though our postmodern world isn't a fan of it, I believe lyrics DO mean something and people DO try to communicate ACTUAL things through music. Sure, I'll take Maynard's frustration and anger for what it is. But the video is a pastor looking at the claims maynard is making and it sounds like he does it quite sensitively actually. Bottom line, I don't think the pastor was preaching. It was his REACTION + LYRICAL ANALYSIS, like the video claimed to be.
@@Aaron-zh4kj I don't believe that Maynard was making claims in this song. I believe that he was presenting orders of potential with respect to his familial experience. Looking back on his creation of entire albums which address activity of the psyche, which anyone can address, I am inclined to believe that his treatment of religious symbols in this case is more sophisticated than a cursory, judgmental treatment of cause and effect with respect to divine intention.
I have to say. I clicked this to laugh at how mad you would get, knowing this song. But I am genuinly impressed. And yes he is usually bald. You should listen to wings for marie 1and2. In it then he finds a kind of peace with his mom and her god after her death.
5:08 "I don't know anything about him" yeah, that's pretty obvious. This song is more about the hypocrisy of the people in his mom's congregation than about anyone's belief in a savior.
I know I’m way late posting this, but I have a traumatic experience with the church..I haven’t been in years and I don’t claim to know what the truth is, but I appreciate hearing your perspective on this.
Meh i went through this situation and now I am an Atheist because God abandoned me. I dont think they understood it exactly but its hard when you haven't been through it.
@@rustzz8 what do you mean God abandoned you? If you're an Atheist you don't believe God exists. So when you say "God abandoned" you mean you discovered he was never around no?
His mom suffered a stroke and as religious as she was, her faith grew stronger. He, understandably, was upset. When my wife passed it took me 20 years to get back. I do love the lyrics referencing the spear of Longitis. Goosebumps
Interesting. .. because Thor and Loki seem to represent Lucifer and Satan who some claim are different people. Maybe there are indeed 2 of them like in the Prestige.
As an ex-catholic I have nothing but a deep respect for your opinion about this song. It's not surprising to hear you reject the lyrics as a man of faith, but it's really surprising to hear that you can appreciate the song as an amazing piece of art. I can only imagine how many times you heard the cries of anger against God when loved ones are taken from the people that come to you for comfort, but I really hope your can ease their pain never armed with arrogance, but with pure love and compassion. Blessings to you and your whole community, and greetings from Chile.
i've always been atheist, but props for denouncing the prosperity gospel. whole lot of people believe the more money you have = the better a person you are
I don't fully agree with the lyrics, though it is one of my favorites they've made. Definitely a good song with a powerful message behind the lyrics, displayed with lots of emotion behind it.
The song bears a similar resemblance to the Songs of Lament in the Book of Psalms. Expressing pain and anger with God is a form of worship if done with the intent of surrendering that pain and anguish to the only one with the ability to remove it
I am a devout Christian but also a hardcore Maynard Fan and I'm sorry to say dude you gotta go deep in the meaning of the writers lyrics before you critic n judge the song. I have a video where Maynard talks about the true meaning of his song. The song was a vendetta against his Mom's Christian friends who turn there back on her when she became paralyze n he wasn't saying F the actual God he was sayin that to the false God that they believe in. There are so many phoney Christians that so called believe in God n Christ but they have it in where its believe of what there God means to them in there brains rather then true scripture. Maynard knows of Love because he loved his Mom dearly. I am a poet writer and can only say that most writers have hidden agenda behind there lines that come out in a total different meaning to the public.
As someone who's mom was bound to a wheelchair due to MS when I was in my early teens up until her death many years later I can easily see where Maynard is coming from. Since Liz brought up phony Christians and false Gods I'd like to suggest a song by the band Suicidal Tendencies. "Send me your money"
That is what it what it is about...with that as with the little info the pastor had and knowing nothing more he did a good explanation of what he got (from some info given before) from the song i can see how he got it....it is like only reading 1 paragraph of the Bible and not reading the whole story
I give you props for keeping an open-mind, but as others have explained you completely missed the entire point of the song. Maynard isn't expressing his anger against Christians as a whole, but towards the congregation that ostracized his mother after she was bound to a wheel chair and got sick and the blatant hypocrisy that Christians commonly display. The way I see it, if the shoe fits. Wear it with shame.
It's the dudes first time listening. Did you understand the meaning and or message of any tool or apc song when you first heard it? Because if you say yes, then I call bullshit.
@@thomasbowe9956 The time from when I first heard Tool's songs back in the mid/90's where there weren't many technological options and now where you can easily research things is a huge difference. "Listening to it for the first time" shouldn't be an acceptable excuse these days.
On the title of the album, "Mers de Noms", almost all of the title tracks are names or refer to names, e.g., Judith, Magdalena, Rose, Orestes, Sleeping Beauty, Thomas, etc.
“Wings for Marie” parts 1 and 2, as well as all of 10,000 Days, was dedicated to lead singer Maynard James Keenan’s mother Judith Marie Gridley. She passed away 3 years prior to the release of the album. When Maynard was 11 years old, his mother suffered a brain aneurysm that left her paralyzed for the remainder of her life. Despite her unfortunate condition, she maintained a strong faith in God. Though Maynard would have odds with her views at times (as exemplified in A Perfect Circle’s “Judith”), he espouses in the album’s two-part dedication that because of her faith in such a trying episode, she above all others is deserving of Heaven. The 10,000 days of the album’s title refers to the 27 years that Maynard’s mother lived after being paralyzed.
Same here. Not religious, not into Christianity at all. But I’ll listen to this guy. He’s down to earth and reasonable. Not many people can have a civilized argument these days.
Bob seems like a really great guy. The son of any man this sweet and dear is faced with great difficultly at even just the though of breaking their heart.
It was written more to express how he could not believe his mothers faith in the church had gotten deeper, even though the church turned its back on her, and basically stated that she deserve to be where she is because of what she had done
Agreed. That is the thing about taking away a message from music or any other form of media for that matter... Whatever you take away from something is what it should mean to you. If it changes your beliefs, great. If it solidifies your beliefs, great as well. I don't believe there is really any "proper understanding".
A great song. As a Christian, during the suffering of my dad’s passing, I knew he isn’t going to get better, I wasn’t praying for a miracle, l pray for a peaceful resolution, still he suffered for 3days before his passing, it was hard for my whole family. After his passing, i questioned my own faith. Like many others, we all can relate to this song.
I was raised Catholic, and when my Mom got sick and passed away, I was 17. I prayed so much for her during her illness, anyway, I almost lost my faith, but after some soul searching, I realized that if my mother had died, say, while giving birth to me, I would have never even knew her. I know it's a rose colored glasses thing, but it helped me very much at a terrible time......
I'm a huge fan of Maynard's work, and I understand a lot of his lyrics but you gave me another point of view, the anger of the song is now more understandable thanks, greetings from Mexico
The problem with theodicy is that we consider it a problem because we're holding God's standards to our own and putting our sense of right above his. I watched a YT video about it after a college philosophy course. I'm not Christian, but I admire those with faith, of all kinds.
I’m an atheist and I’m on Maynard’s side here - but I love love love hearing counter arguments and love the openness and discussion. Growing up Lutheran this was very interesting for me. Nice job y’all 👍🏼
Im not in any way religious, I still find this very interesting to hear what these guys have to say, especially about a song that is (lyrically) so different their views,
Personally, I think that the bible is a collection of stories. There are some that believe it happened verbatim, but like any written publication by humans, there is room for interpretation
We suffer from the day we are born till the day we die, but if we have faith in Jesus he will carry us through the bad times, and those who allows to suffer greatly he raises up onto his shoulders to show the world his mercy and gives them the strength to endure any trials or tribulations , he will give his grace,his love,his peace, to endure all trials and tribulations. The devil is prowling lion looking for someone to devour, stand up to him strong in faith. God bless.
Maynard understands the theology perfectly. He was raised in a devout Southern Baptist family. He is just disagreeing with it and pointing out what he personally finds to be contradictions. The biggest problem he seems to have with God's supposed plan is the amount of suffering it seems to involve. What is the limit of necessary evil? His argument: if God is so good, why does he need to use such overwhelming levels of suffering to make his plan work and for us to be guided towards him? This is what drives the anger of the song. Also, for additional background, one of the major themes and motifs of Mer De Noms is forgiveness and it's different stages.
Why are any evils "necessary"? An all loving god would have made an existence without such a thing...but since it exists this completely discounts to the Christian god of the bible by their own definition. Seeing as how they say the bible is the inviolable word of god then the book destroys its own god through logic.
@@davisiimdavisiim1295 That's how Christians will spin the Argument from Evil unfortunately. It's a manipulation of the idea that suffering is beneficial to growth.
Men in positions are who give out the pain and suffering not God. People bound in religion are the ones that get the suffering with no remedy cause they follow men and this world system. It’s in everyone’s faces and they will refuse to see it.
@@scottlefaivre2446 Oh I know he's from that area. Did you think I was saying he was from the south? Southern Baptists aren't just relegated to there. The name is such only because that denomination of Christianity has it's roots in the south.
This is a genius way to get the younger generations to hear discussion of the good book. I’d call myself “spiritual”, but I appreciate your willingness to hear and discuss things that may completely go against your beliefs.
This is art. Great musical composition, with amazing lyrics that express so much hurt Maynard felt. You don't have to agree with the lyrics to appreciate it.
As an agnostic I do like how they can put the emotion of the song as the focus and feel his pain and not just dismiss it even after the line "F*** YOUR GOD" slapped the pastor in the face it would have been easy to be tainted by that sentiment alone. That is what an open mind looks like religious or not saying this in 2021 most people are prone to knee jerk reactions we need to be like this more often
As a Christian in the secular world I'm familiar with people having aggressive emotions towards my believes and some even think I'm mentally ill for believing it. Of course if I'm confronted with the emotions directly it is difficult not to be affected. But I can understand their feelings. I understand where they are coming from.
Agnosticism is weird aye. We want God but can't feel it. I wish I did. Some of the most serene people I have met are Christians. I think that's something worth understanding.
My gears began grinding each time I heard......ManYARD lol Respect though to him for having good musical tastes despite the teachings he is surrounded by.
Let us remember, though. This was not the end of the story for Maynard. After his mother’s death, I think that his feelings may have evolved some. I think he found some sort of closure. I don’t think he ever really forgave those that had forsaken his mother. But instead he found peace for her. (As heard in 10,000 days) “This little light of mine, a gift you passed unto me. I’m gonna let it shine to guide you safely on your way...” Several other lyrics in that set of songs hinted at Maynard’s coming to terms with his mother’s passing and his peace with her unrelenting faith. I feel that Judith is just part of the story and reflects his feelings at that point in his life.
"Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children." - Eric Draven I don't know Maynard personally, I also don't have a clear understanding of Christian theology. But what i'm quite sure of is that this is created out of love for her dearest mother, expressed in the form of song.
I like this pastor. I’m not religious at all but I like the fact he can discuss. Even if I don’t agree with the opinion. To me this is what it’s all about. being able to discuss, agree to disagree and have a mutual respect for ones opinion.
Well, I would just like to point out that molesting children is predominantly a Catholic thing, occasionally a Mormon thing, and that the guy in the videos is a normal Protestant pastor. And while I suppose Christian ministers can be greedy just like everyone else, they really don't hold a candle to Scientology, a religion founded on monetary principles. So...yeah...
Robert, I'd be willing to bet or assume that you and Maynard would have a fond appreciation for each other, only because he'd open up his views to hear you, as you have done for the art he's presented.. You'd be surprised to learn he is quite intelligent and his understanding of religion reaches quite far.. He also has a very proper understanding that most Christians assume and judge others with just a few shreds of information, as you have done in this video..
We’ve all got to start somewhere. I’ve learned a ton reading the comments on this video. Actually about to listen to MJK audiobook. Still think he’s off on his understanding of Christian theology but I don’t doubt he’s an intelligent man otherwise.
@@roberthoughton7127 Thank you for replying! I also saw the followup with Wings 1&2. Even had my wife watch and we both thought that you've both really done wonderful in exploring this (these) musician(s). We (my wife and I), were both were raised Christians, who also realized all too young some of the hypocrisy in the church. We were not allowed to question anything and it put a real divide between what I then, and mostly still feel about Christianity. Wonderful teachings, a true guide to our confused hearts with the understanding that religion, and it's believers can be just as diverse as any understanding or other religion that I've come to know in my 41 years on this planet. We're all humans. That's about the only thing that makes perfect sense to me. :)
"Oddly the song is still good" lmfao, basically me the first time I heard it, I was like, oh hey I love A Perfect Circle, then I was like, oh hey, uh, what'd he just say, but this riff slays and his vocals are killer.
I've always liked this song. I used to blame God for my poor choices and not getting what I wanted or thought that I needed. But now I'm hoping to see the light. My God my Lord my Jesus Christ.
Please... the whole video I was waiting for the pastor to analyze the lyrics “he did it all for you”, but was sorely disappointed. In my opinion these five words turn the whole meaning of the song 180 degrees. If the lyrics are as ignorant as the pastor implies than it would be “he did it all to you”. “He did it all FOR you” emphasizes the redemption that would be presumably granted to his mother for her unwavering faith. He (God) did it(allowed it to happen) for (to have or take possession of) you (Marie). That is why she can demand her wings in the song Wings for Marie Part 2, elevated to heaven. We can also take this one step further as if she (his mother) is saying this sentence to Maynard or even the church community. God did this all to her, for them, so that they may live by her example of faithfulness and therefore be redeemed also. He was angry and questioning but there is an answer by the end and a redeeming quality by summary. Even if it’s only for her. I could be wrong but am I really the only one whose thought of this?
Well..Maynard's mom isn't singing it, so no, you can't take it as her words to others. Interpretation is fine but it has it's limits. Sometimes, even with Tool, the most obvious answer is the correct one. "He did it all for you" is merely a spiteful comment to his mother in an attempt for her to realize how illogical it is to worship God, especially considering what happened to her and how it completely debilitated her life.
you do understand the meaning of that line right? hes saying his mothers situation is the reason why he will never believe and trust in god. hes not saying anything good there
@@rosscarpenter9611 Because the song isn't so much a dig on God, from Maynard's perspective, it's about (and in ways from the perspective of) the other "followers of God" who rejected Judith after the stroke, and even made it seem like she deserved it because of something she did in God's eyes. They falsely applied Christian logic to her situation and outcast her. They failed to look beyond their pompous self-aggrandization with compassion. Maynard's saying "fuck THAT God" ...who would quickly turn his back on his believers...the God that all of the other followers that rejected Judith believe he is. And these guys (no fault of theirs, they didn't know the context) completely misjudged the message and simplified it into a penny candy sermon. Maynard is criticizing the average follower of the Church.
I love tool/apc/Maynard, but I never understood why the fan base is so pretentious. It's the dudes first time listening to this. For anybody to act like they had the meaning of the lyrics and song figured out when you first listened, you're lying.
@@radbarij don't get me wrong, I'm just a passing random atheist, but Christianity doesn't make any claims that God is giving pastors access to information that the rest of us don't have, or the ability to instantly understand tool songs.
Completely agree. The level of smug within their fan base is ridiculous. They literally worship the guy. Like. Chill. I love tool and anything Maynard. But lord. Give it a rest.
The song wasn't about MJK being mad at God, he was mad because his mother's church said she brought the sickness on herself. This is coming directly from MJK in interviews and his book, "A Perfect Union of Contrary Things".
@@mytubechanneI Really? I thought it was pretty straightforward... Looking at the track list should give you insight into why the album is called "sea of names." 12 tracks. Out of those 12, only 4 songs have titles that are NOT names. The Hollow, 3 Libras, Thinking of You, and Over. Each other track is a proper name or title. Magdalena, Rose, Judith, Orestes, Sleeping Beauty, Thomas, Renholder, Brena
Haven't been a Christian for a good few years now but I still love to see Christian people praising songs I love even though it speaks out against your religion. It's heartwarming and I hold a lot of respect for you!
Call me crazy. Not a believer of god but i believe in the power of god and the good it can do for people. I appreciate you guys being respectful and open minded. Awesome
Her name was Judith Marie. You should listen to Wings for Marie part 1 and 2 off Tool 10000 days. It goes hand in hand with this song! Same vocalist Maynard!
First, I applaud you for being open enough to listen to music outside of your church construct. That shows great character. Many religious people simply condemn without reasoning thru what others are saying to them. Kudos. Wirh that being said, think about all of the good you would do if you had the power any of the supposed gods do, now consider the fact that you worship a god who does non of those things. Children dying of famine daily. Murders. Rapes. Disease. Etc...
IMHO you're driving backward. Sure you can begin your spiritual journey with anger against God, but it's just the trigger to looking much further in details (increasingly from telescope to microscope). What I found so far: - God won't grant you gifts "for free", all he's interested in is your personal improvement. He may give you some helping if you ask for it (but don't forget he may not grant you what you want but rather what you need, which may be very different), but he definitely won't do it for you (his adversary will, along with every physical illusions like winning lottery etc). - God always work along your side. He will let you fight a war if you want it. He just accepts that you dismiss him from your life, that's your right (atheism accepted, until you're sick of being a spiritual orphan and go back to him, or not). - Our freedom is cherished by him. He accepts our future suffering if we want it (mostly likely because ignorance). Eventually, he's faith you will get sick of it. Anyway, you didn't ask for it, sorry, but I just got a bit passionate (triggered?) by what you said...
Sure, and while hes at it he could take away everything that makes the world bad in any shape or form, not just the evil but even the slight inconveniences, and make us all rich and beautiful just for good measure. Do you see where im going with this? If youve ever watched the matrix when Agent smith is talking to morpheus and he says that the original matrix was a pure paradise but it didnt work. Same concept. No one wants Children dying, rape, and murder. But imagine if you were the creator ( which btw is impossible to truly understand ) if you were going to create the universe making a perfect place would be rendered pointless
@Richard Duenaz I'm not sure if you have children, but as a devout parent to my own child, I could never allow terrible things to happen to him just because he isn't perfect. That's not what love is. I can understand allowing him to learn life's lessons through trial and error, but allowing for something like paralysis is ridiculous. That is not a lesson or a punishment. How can you consider the failure to prevent paralysis, starvation, murder, rape, disease, etc. as "coddling?" If you believe there is a cosmic father figure up there somewhere that loves you, reevaluate your definition of love. And if this type of "penance" fits your paradigm, then I sincerely hope you do not ever have children, as he/she would be an incredibly confused child.
We have free will and God doesn’t grant Christians an exemption from the worlds problems. And those crazies before the flood would’ve raised more crazies. Start fresh
@@TheDaygobah You realize how UNIMPORTANT this life is when you consider ETERNITY? If all human life was sooo evil and so far from God, you could say he simply saved all those innocent children and babes from a shitty life in this world followed by damnation, for eternal happiness.. Change your perspective if you want to understand. If God is real, would you fear him? Maybe that's why you are so convinced there is not one.
Interesting facts about this song and video.. the bass player/backup singer is Paz Lenchantin who is now with the Pixies… The music video for Judith was directed by David Fincher, then known as the director of Fight Club, Se7en, and music videos for Aerosmith, Madonna, and Michael Jackson. There is also a radio exit version of the song where the line is changed to “Love your God!” Instead of the ‘f’ word
Now we just need Maynard reacting to a Christian Pastor reacting to Judith to complete the circle.
Brilliant
That sounds like a perfect circle right there :D
Yes, this would be good to see. Maynard is a wise man but also quite provocative. He's fairly well grounded, so I'm sure he would be able to provide a respectful and balanced response to Pastor Houghton
's react video.
Yaaaaas
Right, comon, Maynard!!!!!!!!!! Right???????? Truthfully Maynard isnt this stupid!!
Maynard's mother was in a wheelchair and the people of her church said that if she had been a better Christian she wouldn't have ended up in a wheelchair. So he wrote this song based on that experience.
Bingo. He was angry...my favorite song by Perfect Circle.
It's more of an attack on the church not necessarily the religion of "god". I suggest you read and watch interviews about the song.
@@devinbullard7304 more than an attack, I think is an angry critique to the religious people who twist God's teachings and pretend to be better than their neighbor
Maynard knows, I.e. Gnostic, like John the Baptist or Judas Thomas. It’s fun to watch a devoted one encounter hells bottomless pit and not Know what he is even looking at. Naive Christians read the books literally. It’s easier to bury your head in sand and believe the whole world is a desert. Thank you @M Byrd for your clarification.
that stament from a group that u call brotherhood in a church saying to u: "u were bad" is the end for the beliving of someone or aproching a problem. instead of help they took a beat stick and throw the stone, Jesus didnt point no one but we do it. the bad christian were that church
Just to note, he is not mad at Christianity in it's pure essences. He's mad at the hypocrisy of many Christians. Many members of the Christian Church his mom belonged to said that her sickness was caused by her own sinfulness and ostracized her. It can be found in his biography, The Perfect Union of Contrary Things
I disagree. If he was primarily angry at the fact that the congregation had abandoned her, then why would he put so much emphasis on the fact that he thinks God, Christ, and the saints have abandoned her while never mentioning her fellow followers once in the entire song? If what you say is true, then that is bad songwriting in my opinion.
MetalTheory What? Read the biography, it’s not as simple as blaming one more than the other. His mother was treated poorly by her church, he is talking about people like that AND angry at her for her belief.
I read the same interview. Maynard wrote the song and that's what HE said that was what it is about.
@@brandonharwood9066 Note that he sings 'F *your*' God, and '*your* Lord and *your* Christ', as others have stated, it is not an attack on those who love Jesus, rather to those who were hateful and uncharitable in Jesus name (wolves in sheep's clothing?!)..
Exactly that's why he States your God. Not his God.
I'm agnostic. I have the same problems with Christianity as Maynard plus dozens more, despite the pastor's clarification. However, their reactions to the song is as fair as can be. They stayed positive, open minded, and gave condolences. Christians like these have a particular charm to them that I admire. This gets a like. 👍
Maynard didn't understand his mother a witness to him and everyone listening and debating the song! Judas understood, my life is a witness my struggles more powerful than anything I can say. I get it becauuse I've been in a wheelchair 38 years a quadriplegic my life and struggles say more than I could Preach and when you see all that I'm going through and I still have joy and love my heart It makes others want what I have. I find it interesting peoplee can believe In Aliens with technology far beyond our understanding but they can't believe in someone not from this world with the knowledge of all things we don't.
@@brians1071 Then you're incredible for maintaining that strength. I'd have to find my strength elsewhere in that position. Through my own power fueled by inspiration from Bruce Lee and David Goggins.
Plus, with a universe as unimaginably vast as ours, I find aliens having advanced technology more plausible than a being that's just all powerful by default with no explanation and has oddly specific gender, ethnic and nationality roles.
These are the Christians that actually follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, kindness to everyone even your enemies, don't judge others based on their opinions, words, or deeds, preach the word without pushing it on others.
@@reaperwb39 The crazy thing is. 8 days ago, I became a born again scientist.
I still don't exactly know who's incharge, but I confirmed their to be 3 side, and none them are evil. There's only green or red.
@@brians1071 The reality is, despite your truly unfortunate and regrettable circumstances, there is no evidence for a god, at least not one that is defined as such in any of the current monotheistic religions. Monotheism in all its current flavors defines god as being omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent. This can, however, not be the case in any combination of the three that is expressed and experienced daily across the globe. People often retreat to the notion that evil, harm, and wanton suffering are the result of human action, 'free will', but this is systemically not the case. For example, consider illness, various bone cancers in children, these have nothing to do with the choices/actions of the parents, and certainly nothing to do with any voluntary choices amongst the children afflicted. Yet they remain terminal and condemned, to suffer and live a few months longer, or give up and not suffer more than requisite by whatever god is held responsible. The truly 'faithful', despite the horrid indifference to human suffering, will still fall back on the idea that everything is 'god's plan', thus they did not suffer needlessly. This is, of course, wrong in every sense that it can be wrong. The suffering is, by their own definition, of god's creation alone. Thus, god has created that entity for the explicit function of creating suffering. That suffering, as its purpose, is somehow pleasing to god. No matter if this is a fallacy and god does not exist to create such a thing, or if it is accurate and god does, I find the entire subject repulsive. There is no god, and if there is, that god is a criminal.
I'm an agnostic but this video was very refreshing to watch, the open mindedness and lack of fear to objectively analyze something you don't agree with is what the world needs
Pablo Arias Hear hear. I was raised in a Methodist home during my childhood. When my brother died, my belief followed. I turned to polytheism and eventually, became an atheist. This song is eerily relatable for me, as my brother had a highly vascular brain tumor on the brain stem, and science said he would not live beyond the age of five. He died eleven years later, age 16. Against all medical odds, he survived, only to die later. I could not reconcile it with my faith, and so it had to go.
Agreed very much. As a Christian, I listen to all kinds of Rock and metal and see the perspectives. I've been through a lot personally and I connect with it. This is a concept that is lost to the modern world. Open mindedness is dead.
Jack Carroll Very true. And very sad. I just fell head over heels in love with a newer band. SKYND. Their inspiration is the darker parts of the human experience, and their songs, lyrics, and videos are an interpretative study of killers and suspicious deaths. I can see the artistry within it, and respect the musicality of it without being a sick person.
Pablo Arias me too!!!! I was very impressed at their openness to real hear the music and appreciate it at an emotional and artistic and even talent view. It was def refreshing !
Another agnostic here. I agree with you, their openness makes me want to listen to more of their channel. This world needs more people willing to listen to those with other opinions.
Key point to mention: his anger was also driven by his mom being rejected by her church after her aneurysm.
Did not know that
Wow..
Lots of people blame God for things then become atheist lol. Makes no sense to me. The book clearly states that the bad guy is some one else. But more importantly, no supreme being would be affected by temper tantrums.
Fortune Mak3r But God is the ultimate boss...he could easily choose to get rid of the "bad guy.” Instead he chooses to let him run rampant...why? What purpose does that serve?
@@CosmicEpiphany Free will. If you dont have free will you are a robot. Its one way or the other. If He wanted robots He would have made robots. Eventually humans will see the big picture. And it was very patient of Him to *allow* us the time to explore this sandbox of misery.
I'm glad that even though Maynard practically insulted your religion you still managed to see the art and emotion in his music. Kudos to you guys!
Right. I'm not even religous, but I like this guys channel, because he listens and tries to understand the meanings to the songs
It's rage about his mother's condition and conviction, which you know. But, it's more raw emotion than an attack on Christianity.
Shot friend, they have to look on the bright side. (Id explain that all the Abrahamic religions come from the Sumerians but I don't want to rain on the parade) I guess one picks the belief system that one feels comfortable with.
He's not just insulting their religion. He's writing the music from the perspective of the serpent in the garden of Eden.
He's not insulting the religion itself but rather the judgemental jerks you find in the church. Her church congregation told his mother that is was her fault she had a stroke and wound up in a wheelchair because she was a bad Christian.
Why is it surprising that the song is good & not “bad”? Maynard is amongst the absolute best of vocalists in the heavy rock genre. His voice is distinctive & powerful. His incredible talent for writing lyrics & melodies is like no other. I would say his talent is God gifted; genius level. Take it as it comes….it’s so powerful & emotive. Maynard is a legend to a lot of us
I completely agree with you
He is experiencing a form of dissonance. The song is obviously amazing, but he should hate and rebuke it. And/or he is doing a bad job of expressing himself.
eMOTIVe you say?
Well he didn't even know who Maynard was before he heard this song.
No doubt,noone sounds like him and his lyrics.....🤯
I don't believe in God, I did at one point in my life, but the fact that you will listen to a song against Christ and not judge, is amazing, I can listen to your side all day... Keep it up my man
Same. But i dropped organised religion not so much the belief in a supreme being (other than Kim johl ill lol)
Real Christians that read the bible especially the gospels know you don't judge others but only God will judge all
@@nezy0726 They're deluded and brainwashed into believing that, anyway.
Maynard's follow up songs about Judith after her death would suggest he still heavily believes.
@@nezy0726 The no true Scotsman fallacy... Classic.
I watch pretty much every reaction to Tool and APC songs, and I’ve got to say a pastor reacting to Judith is one of the most interesting perspectives I never knew I even wanted. During this time in Maynard’s life he was full of anger and resentment toward his mother’s faith after a stroke had left her crippled since he was 11 years old. If you’d like to see an accepting and vulnerable side of him I’d recommend listening Wings for Marie and 10,000 days which is an intimate 17 minute song of him explaining how he feels during and after she’s passed. Alternatively Right in Two is a good listen as it’s a story told from the perspective of angels looking down and giving their opinion on humankind.
I read the lyrics to Wings last night. I'm excited to hear it! I'll definitely be doing a video on it. I'll check out the others as well. I'm learning he's a great lyricist and able to communicate emotion in a way that gets right to your heart.
@@roberthoughton7127 Wings for Marie part 1 and then Wings for Marie part 2 (10,000 days), you should react to both. It is important to know that when he wrote Judith, she was still alive but suffering and paralyzed apparently for 27 years (roughly 10000 days). he wrote Wings for Marie part 1 and 2 after her death, and you can clearly see the change in him. His criticism i think is aimed more toward the hypocrisy in his mother's congregation, rather than Christianity itself
Jimmy is a good song to get a glimps of how he felt "losing" his mom at 11
Right In Two is a masterpiece of a song. The music is incredible and the lyricism is next level. Would love to hear a reaction to that.
@@SeditiousJerk agreed
For people who aren't absolute crazed Tool fans such as myself, I can obviously understand why people (especially religious people) will have this reaction. If you read the biography of Maynard James Keenan you will see that at the time this happened to his mother, the local church community abandoned her and some even blamed her saying that it was her fault for being a "bad christian." You can see why Maynard would harbor animosity towards the church. Like most of Tool's work, Maynard's lyrics can be much more complex than they seem. Tool songs are often misinterpreted because most casual fans are not going to put in the work to really find out what the song writer is trying to say. IMHO, this song is more of Maynard's scathing indictment of Christianity and how some branches have twisted the teachings of Jesus for their own self interest. Maynard has always been critical of "Group Think" and challenging his audience to "Think for themselves and Question Authority." The Tool album "Aenima" is a great example of this as several of the songs and the album title itself have dual meanings where they can be taken as juvenile or serious topics. It depends on the point of view of the listener. Like most great art, it's subjective and designed to make you think.
seminole17910 I’m so glad you read the book. I lost interest in this from the very beginning when they couldn’t even pronounce MJK’s name
I liked the last part of your novel!¿!
I concur
I can't give this comment enough 'thumbs up' lol
agreed but he's also too artsy fartsy his music since lateralous n enima have been too much!! bk to the basics time. i seen them n they had no opening show no encore no actual concert shirts n ok i can handle that that seems ego but he has always been like that. just won't go to the concerts n just listen to the old album. this was the Only decent song on all of perfect circles album.
I grew up a Christian. My uncle was paralyzed from the neck down in a car crash when he was 18 years old. At the time his girlfriend was nine months pregnant, and he was talking to scouts from the NBA. He After the wreck he became a devout Christian and always talked about how the accident saved his life. He was in a wheelchair the rest of his life, only able to move his arms at the shoulders and his neck. He died seven years later because the hospital didn't know how to take care of him. That wreck didn't save him. He was my Judith
What kind of God does that to people, or allows children to be abused, or refuses the prayers of kids who's mother is dying or mothers who's child is starving, if their God is real he is a POS, he could intervene in the suffering but refuses to, but he intervenes to help Tim Tebow win a fucking football game? Or to help Copeland get a new private jet?
So the nba and having money is the ultimate outcome for life? Money, material items? How do you know the wreck didn’t save him from a life of degenerate behavior? Most rich celebrities are drug addicts and miserable with life. You’re guided by desire, money, full of anger. You will suffer until you forgive your mother and come to Christ. Stop chasing baseless desires.
Maynard is not speaking about his mother's death, he speaks about her suffering
Also about the way her church treated her after she got sick
no one mentioned her dying.
Yep, you're correct. Wings for Marie is about her death
Her death was her suffering
Sounds to me like they addressed mainly the suffering.
The song doesn't strike me as being about "why did this bad thing happen to my mom, Judith?" Maynard isn't questioning the reason WHY it happened. He's questioning his mother's unwavering devotion to her god (and specifically her church and the people in it) even AFTER a bad thing happened to her, regardless of whether or not she deserved it or whether she was a good or bad person/Christian. He literally says in the song that her god (read: the church/people in it) abandoned her, yet she still prays, she never strays. It's pretty obvious he's venting. He's not wondering why something horrible happened to a good person. He can't change that after the fact. But he's pissed at mommy dearest for doubling down on her faith after her fellow Christians turned their backs on her.
This ! ❤
You speak true words ☺
That's why it is Base on Faith and the Faith Alone in Jesus. not people
@@brian4480 What?
@@zar7518 I'm pretty sure his mom was a Druish princess. So that would make him Druid royalty bro.
Maynard isn’t mad at God, he’s upset how his mothers church stated that “maybe this happened to you because of you”. He felt that her church gave her no compassion at the current issue she was going thru and never really helped her when she needed them the most. (According to an interview he gave).
Where’s the interview about this?
@Jessica B. his mom fucking died
@Jessica B. I guess that is why the lyrics use that bible story as the theme of the song.
Yes I agree with you, and that shows more clearly in Wings by Tool
Thank you. I’m tired of people saying that Maynard just hates religion and spirituality so much. He’s obviously hurt and angry over his moms death and channeled it into this song.
This song represents a lifetime of frustration and the liberty to express it authentically at last. Incredibly powerful and full of love
I'm terminally ill and I have a lot of rage against God. I lived my life with kindness, grace and compassion and I'm still dying. It's hard to not be angry at God.
There are no gods, seek solace that you merely return to the oblivion from whence you emerged. No punishment, no reward, just non-existence. The anticipation of that return is the price of consciousness. Peace and best of luck.
@@disrxt shut the fuck up
@@disrxt cope
@@revan552 chill tf
@@disrxt That's one of the two possibilities.
You guys completely missed the entire point of the song.
His mother was an extremely devout Christian who's faith never wavered after what happened to her.
Maynard was disgusted by her so-called "fellow worshippers" who completely abandoned her after her stroke left her paralyzed and wheelchair bound for "10,000 days."
It was as if being faced with just how mortal all of them actually were was impossible for them to process. Her church life, which had meant so much to Her, forgot that she existed.
Right, he kinda twisted it to be evangelical. Which is fine I guess, that's probably the ultimate point of the channel.
Did Someone Say "Christian Loophole?" Why? "Oh Just Because."
What do you expect from religious zealots. Christianity, the Bible, religion, etc., cannot truly explain why bad things happen to good people, and why good things happen to bad people. Once they figure out the Bible is at best, a history book, which is still filled with great lessons we can still learn from, then they might be able to break the shackles of false doctrine and try to dig for a deeper meaning of life. It’s out there, we just gotta let go of everything we know, and embrace the unknown.
There’s no need to explain why good things happen to ‘bad’ people or why bad things happen to ‘good’ people. The Bible literally says that NO ONE is good. Not a single one. It also says that it rains (bad things) on the just and the unjust alike.
Basically, shit happens. Some good. Some bad.
@Vicodyn Oh, I don't know.... maybe have someone actually *read the lyrics that were right in front of them,* maybe?
I like how you acknowledge its still a good song.
@Jesus Christ you are just now discovering Maynard and "A Perfect Circle"? Congrats!! He's also the lead singer of "Tool" and "Pusifer"; give them a listen.
Don’t worry folks, Judith got her wings. Maynard knows that now.
Worm food bro. Worm food. Just like everyone else rotting in the ground.
@@lordj81 Takes mighty big faith to believe we're nothing more than just a body
@@SoDamnMetal there’s no evidence that we are, so to believe anything more without evidence is what faith is. I’m simply accepting reality.
@@lordj81 Idk what reality you live in but there's plenty of evidence in mine. If you can't see it, you're not even looking.
@@SoDamnMetal There’s zero evidence of any afterlife or god. The way things work and happen in the world are incompatible with a god. And before we start making assumptions about each other like you’re attempting to do, I was a Christian for over 25 years.
I am not a Christian, however, your attitudes and curiosity mixed with your willingness to explore the secular zeitgeist are very very refreshing to me. You guys rock. papa bless.
Agreed!! 😃🤙
Fuck no!!!! All they did was judge and put him down for the song. What is it that Christians say? "Only God can judge me"? Stop being hypocritical. That's the problem with religion. Everyone wants to put others down and shun them just because they don't believe what you do.
indeed
@@corysmith6990 they didnt just put him down though they dis agreed with some things sure but if all they did was put him down then why did they throughout the video say this song is good that riff is good and then at the end said the lyricism was great i feel like your just look for stuff to hate on man
MattsGotIssues was that a ghost reference?
Even the pastor was like, “damn, this bangs.” Haha
I know what you mean I love how his head kept bobbing lol
something you are missing... Judith didn't wanted to accept any medical treatment, for she awaited to be saved by the power of god...
imagine the pain a son feels seeing your mother dying with no hopes but faith....
that's very human....
maybe she was saved by shaking her mortal coil .. its all perspective .. this is why i love music .. power thoughts and emotions
it is one of the most human songs i've ever heard.
I had an aunt that believed that going to the doctor was to question the healing ability and faith in Jesus. Even though there were several doctors put in her path along with the chance to able to get to the hospital that could do the best and most for her, did she not think that maybe her faith in Jesus made it possible for those doctors and hospital to be put in her path by him? We will never know but it is possible that he did put those doctors in her path so that she could have been helped. But, she believed that was not putting her faith in Jesus's ability to heal her. Yes God and Jesus can heal anyone at anytime, those are miracles and they do happen but not the majority of the time. This is a topic that can be argued on both sides, not even sides really but can be debated from many angles as to why things happen...is it to test you or to pull you through a difficult situation and make you stronger for it? His ways are not our ways, we can put our faith in Jesus and rightly so but he doesn't promise an easy carefree healthy life, he promises to never leave you or forsake you. There are many circumstances that you cannot battle alone or are strong enough to battle at all, but Jesus is strong enough to do it through you and no it may not be easy and you may not know why but, it is for his glory. And it's ok to talk to him and question, you may not understand why but you can still ask.
Gotta be honest, the musicality of APC is on another level. Even pastor had to groove to it when it came on
This explains it well. Taken from Wikipedia:
Keenan's mother suffered a paralyzing cerebral aneurysm in 1976, when Maynard was 11 (the inspiration for creative works such as Tool's songs "Jimmy" and "Wings for Marie" as well as A Perfect Circle's "Judith").
I also wanna add James's sister took them back to the church his mother always went and she was greeted with blame, judgment and negativity. They said she was paying for her sins and she deserved it. All that instead of helping. So his sister told him she would never take him to a church ever again. And so his frustration starts with that. And all this is in his book A Perfect Union of Contrary Things. Amazing book!
MJK doesn't have siblings.
That is sad, but one should not mistake God's love for us, and the failings of a church. People are all flawed, God is not. Jesus taught about the blind man, is it the man's sin or his family's sin that caused the blindness? “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” Maynard's mom may have been awesome but with faults like all of us and the church may have been wrong to criticize, but God still loved her. And I'm sure she is comforted in Heaven and feels no more pain.
And Maynard had no siblings.
It was his aunt that took him in after his mother died. This guy is just making up his own assumptions and interpretation - read the book, he explains it. The pastor of the church told Maynard his mom was punished by god for her sins... and he was just saying it’s not like she killed someone or pierced Jesus with the spear. Why was she punished so severely Shen she was a decent human being.
Don't forgets his father was also abusive and used god to hold them under his thumb
Judgement from "people" who think they are better because they go to church and nothing bad ever happened to them. The old testament is written and translated by human beings, printed by human beings and interpreted by human beings. This is why the bible is problematic to me. Human beings are flawed and some have an agenda.
A heartbreaking song. I can’t imagine what Maynard went through with his Mother.
He could have just named the song,
"I f@#kn hate you Mommy"
@@antoniodelgado1516
Hardly, he's angry at the zealots not her and not even God
@@antoniodelgado1516 except he didn't hate her ... wtf
@@Hermitelder Just her choices, beliefs and ahh yes her F@#kn Christ.
@@antoniodelgado1516 right
I think he knows it's not literally God that did this. Like his mom sees Jesus as her light, she is his light and is what defines goodness. He is mad and sad and we just so happen to be privileged to hear his process that most of us couldn't begin to articulate. He also dislikes organized religion, so that just brings even more aggression to a song that almost reads like a journal entry.
In all of his songs pertaining to his mother you can hear him struggle to understand his mom's faith, but also entertain the perspective as if she is right. He's not shy to switch voices and switch tones within a song and sort of expose the internal struggles he's enduring. I think despite the rhetoric of this song, you would enjoy many of the songs from his band TOOL. Wings for marie part 1 and 2 are about his mom and beautifully composed. Research 10,000 days. Her congregation suggested she was paralyzed basically because she was evil or being punished. Sorry for the length. There is much to discuss when it comes to MJK. Thanks for the reaction.
Yeah, she got divorced, the church kicked her out and told her God was punishing her because of that ,"why she had an aneryism". They should research more. Read his book !! Tells the whole story.
Agreed. Context always helps. Still a solid reaction, especially for a first listen with minimal knowledge. I love seeing people with various perspectives or ideologies interpret Tool, APC, and Puscifer.
" like a journal entry." this is what I was picking up as well. The rest of what you said was on point, imo.
Maynard really opened himself up, and was able to communicate clearly what had to have been an amazing amount of personal anger, pain and confusion.
Then to be able to turn around and open himself up AGAIN,
and communicate clearly and honestly, his updated understanding, enlightenment and acceptance in “Wings for Marie pts 1 & 2” is even more stunning. The last line in part 2 just says it all.
Really just a master class in writing from the heart.
Something you have to understand about maynard, he’s extremely quiet about his personal life. He hates organized religion yes but has on multiple occasions said this song does not necessarily portray his feelings on god.
More so towards other peoples version of God..
The fact that we live in this world were everybody is glued to their smartphone, we have high technology etc. and some people still think that some 'God' is hiding somewhere is joke by itself.
@@viennala2528 how is that a joke? Smartphones don't even come close to the vastness of Earth and space and universes that have all been created by a higher being. We are tiny in the vast scope of everything that's created.
yeah i don't understand how some people can think we are just here by accident... just look at how things work together in nature, or the fact what we have a conscience even scientists get to a certain point in where they begin to refer to things as " God particle/molecule" because they can't explain things and have to theorize... as a former Agnostic i understand how people can be godless especially those who've only known heartache... but without bad we would not know good, so it is quite literally a neccesary evil. organized religion has nothing to do with spiritually and faith as far as i'm concerned
@@billchase7817 with how big the universe is it’s pretty much a statistical impossibility for a planet like ours to NOT have accidentally been formed.
Say “Manyard” one more time...
can you pass the manyaisse please?
This!! Wish I could like this more than once.
😂😂
Ikr
Mainyard
You really should do a little more research. She was abandoned by her church and blamed for her paralysis and she still stayed true in her faith. The whole ordeal angered Maynard because he felt that she didnt deserve to go through that and that God turned his back on her. Huge part of why he is so critical about the Christian faith
This is on point!!! I read all of it in his book
there trying at least. better then most.
That’s only half true. Most of his songs about Christianity are not even about Christians themselves, they are about Jesus personally.
@old rabidus your spot on !
@old rabidus there is a difference between Faith and religion in that Faith is the core, God and Jesus, God and Mohammed and the basic principles which is usually broken down to the golden rule. Religion steps in and screws all this up with rules based spin chosen writings by fallible men written and transcribed thousands of times through many languages long after the actual events that more often than not cause division and hate. In this song he is speaking of her congregation and how they abandoned her when she needed them most after all she gave to her church and how he watched her take the burden of blame for her illness hence the lyric being "Fuck your god" and not fuck God. Listen again to the song and lyrics as a whole and at a deeper level.
The man is a tortured genius. Through Tool , Perfect Circle, Puscifer, he continues to amaze me with the quality of his art. Even through his hatred.
I appreciate your efforts to break this down in a constructive manner.
I do think you may have missed some of the point of the song though.
Maynard isn't a believer.
He is speaking contextually within the framework of his mother's concept of Christianity.
Your bit about "He creates the light, and the darkness" is on point, but not in the way you think.
Toward the end of her life, Maynard was sickened by his mother's continued devotion to her faith, because by her own standard "God" did this to her.
Maynard himself doesn't think "God" did anything to her, but rather, that "He" did in the context of Judith's beliefs, and her lack of self awareness in that respect was the issue.
He saw that it was indicative of a pattern of abuse between his mother, and her concept of "God".
Dude, you perfectly summed it up !
Exactly. I think if they had a better knowledge of Maynard they might have understood where he was coming from. But they can't be expected to do that kind of research.
@@Dobiecx why do a reaction and commentary video if you cant be arsed to do research about the subject?
@@johickey3158 most reaction channels don't do the research of what they're listening to, but hey, they had a close perspective of what the song was about and they do enough research with the rest of their videos with really good perspectives, I suggest watching their channel
@@FMRadio94 i disagree, this is a pastor ( a man of God) who presents himself as knowledgeable and "deep" how can you disseminate without research, he's going to slag an artist off he better come with evidence, no wonder your political system is the mess it is with this attitude, some of us pay great attention to the words and behavior of our fav bands over decades, sold out use to be a thing, take it from an old brit punk, this shit means something
Yes that is a lady singing. She also played all of that sick bass. 🤘
And let's not forget she is super hot!!
Paz Lenchantine
She’s in the pixies
Pixies!!!
Wings for Marie really shows his growth about the subject
You should absolutely listen to Tool - Wings For Marie and 10,000 Days (Wings part 2) together off of the album 10,000 Days
Maynard has not changed his opinion about what he felt was his mother’s misplaced faith by the time he wrote Wings 1 & 2, but I think he acknowledges his mother’s innate goodness as a person despite her motivations for being good, while at the same time being condescending and angry that she went to the grave never questioning what he saw as her ridiculous beliefs. MJK please correct me if I’m wrong. 😏
Came here to say exactly this
@@BricktowneMedia You may already know about this but the generally recommended way to investigate what you're talking about is listening to the "Secret Song" which is 10,000 days with Viginti Tres and Wings for Marie layered on top of it. here: ruclips.net/video/EFjEp79zaNw/видео.html
@@BricktowneMedia Brick you dawg! Et tu Brute? ;) lol you are everywhere where Tool is remotely involved! ;)
The fact that you kept listened to this with such an open mind to the actual meaning behind what was being said was amazing. Christianity needs more guys like you. You earned a sub man. Kudos.
You have made an even bigger error in approaching a work of art as an example of preaching, which it is not. He is expressing what he feels about his own situation and his perspective on it. He never claims that his FEELINGS about his mother's faith are any sort of doctrine, he is only expressing his FEELING about her faith in the face of her struggle and how it is affecting him personally. There is really no debating that this song isn't a very good example of catholicism , but it's equally undeniable that it's a song, art, expression. Yes it is open to interpretation by whomever happens to listen to it , but it isn't offered as anything other than what it is at it's most basic. Music.
This is the best comment.
Where does Catholicism come in? Catholicism doesn't equal Christianity. Christianity is bigger than Catholicism. Anywho, I think our friend here did a good job of enjoying the music as music. But though our postmodern world isn't a fan of it, I believe lyrics DO mean something and people DO try to communicate ACTUAL things through music. Sure, I'll take Maynard's frustration and anger for what it is. But the video is a pastor looking at the claims maynard is making and it sounds like he does it quite sensitively actually. Bottom line, I don't think the pastor was preaching. It was his REACTION + LYRICAL ANALYSIS, like the video claimed to be.
He was 11 years old btw..
@@Aaron-zh4kj I don't believe that Maynard was making claims in this song. I believe that he was presenting orders of potential with respect to his familial experience. Looking back on his creation of entire albums which address activity of the psyche, which anyone can address, I am inclined to believe that his treatment of religious symbols in this case is more sophisticated than a cursory, judgmental treatment of cause and effect with respect to divine intention.
No, he didn't. He was pretty explicit that the intention of the song was not Christian preaching, and he rated it highly from an artistic standpoint.
I have to say. I clicked this to laugh at how mad you would get, knowing this song. But I am genuinly impressed. And yes he is usually bald. You should listen to wings for marie 1and2. In it then he finds a kind of peace with his mom and her god after her death.
Jc Wilson iiii
He's bald or wears a Mohawk when he sings on Tool and wears a long wig when he sings on A Perfect Circle
I second this! But beware you might get teary eyed!
Wings for Marie (pt1) and 10 000 days (pt2) made me cry. The song is beautiful.
5:08 "I don't know anything about him" yeah, that's pretty obvious. This song is more about the hypocrisy of the people in his mom's congregation than about anyone's belief in a savior.
To be fair that is not something that really shows in the lyrics of this song alone.
I know I’m way late posting this, but I have a traumatic experience with the church..I haven’t been in years and I don’t claim to know what the truth is, but I appreciate hearing your perspective on this.
"Wow" - Owen Wilson
lmao
I want to upvote...but if I do It would be 70.
This made me LOL from the surprise of it so hard I pulled something! Thanks! ;)
😂
Hahahah
Even as an Atheist I realy enjoy hearing the Christian prospective! Great channel
I enjoy it specifically because I'm an Atheist.
Meh i went through this situation and now I am an Atheist because God abandoned me. I dont think they understood it exactly but its hard when you haven't been through it.
@@rustzz8 what do you mean God abandoned you? If you're an Atheist you don't believe God exists. So when you say "God abandoned" you mean you discovered he was never around no?
@@trampy6936 I don't think he understands what Atheist means, Pretty sure he means Ex-Christian
Being an Atheist.....this song hits me so fucking hard. Wow.
Great reaction! Wings for Marie & 10000 days in one sitting.
That's a good idea! We may do that!
Add Jimmy to the mix
His mom suffered a stroke and as religious as she was, her faith grew stronger. He, understandably, was upset. When my wife passed it took me 20 years to get back. I do love the lyrics referencing the spear of Longitis. Goosebumps
Thor and Loki have put aside their differences I see
Nice
Hahahahaha
Interesting. .. because Thor and Loki seem to represent Lucifer and Satan who some claim are different people. Maybe there are indeed 2 of them like in the Prestige.
StigmaShadow ...oh my gawd ... LOL!!!
wow nailed that one to the cross
Woooow!! Wings for Marie both parts... song of Judith’s death
As an ex-catholic I have nothing but a deep respect for your opinion about this song. It's not surprising to hear you reject the lyrics as a man of faith, but it's really surprising to hear that you can appreciate the song as an amazing piece of art.
I can only imagine how many times you heard the cries of anger against God when loved ones are taken from the people that come to you for comfort, but I really hope your can ease their pain never armed with arrogance, but with pure love and compassion. Blessings to you and your whole community, and greetings from Chile.
@@baconoftheark Thankfully, none of my relatives were killed, but many where exiled to different parts of the world. Thank you for your kind words.
i've always been atheist, but props for denouncing the prosperity gospel. whole lot of people believe the more money you have = the better a person you are
Maynard wears a variety of wigs in his appearances with A Perfect Circle.. you are indeed right, he is bald..
He had a Mohawk Mullet for a while lol
Back in the day he had a great dragon hawk that was derived from the spirit of an ancient world destroyer.... But yes, now he’s bald :)
The Bald are a deceitful people.
Maynard is a brilliant lyricist and amazing vocalist.
Very cryptic also people misunderstand
The man needs Christ
Josh his soul is already condemned unless he repents but I don’t see that happening.
@@TheKnockout49 nobody does
There will never band that is great as Tool. Saw them 2 times in concert and they sound just like the recorded version
You don't have to agree with the lyrics to feel and understand and appreciate the emotion and pain expressed in them.
I don't fully agree with the lyrics, though it is one of my favorites they've made.
Definitely a good song with a powerful message behind the lyrics, displayed with lots of emotion behind it.
The song bears a similar resemblance to the Songs of Lament in the Book of Psalms. Expressing pain and anger with God is a form of worship if done with the intent of surrendering that pain and anguish to the only one with the ability to remove it
Bad things happen because nobody is truly pure. What a convenient loop. A perfect circle if you will.
I am a devout Christian but also a hardcore Maynard Fan and I'm sorry to say dude you gotta go deep in the meaning of the writers lyrics before you critic n judge the song. I have a video where Maynard talks about the true meaning of his song. The song was a vendetta against his Mom's Christian friends who turn there back on her when she became paralyze n he wasn't saying F the actual God he was sayin that to the false God that they believe in. There are so many phoney Christians that so called believe in God n Christ but they have it in where its believe of what there God means to them in there brains rather then true scripture. Maynard knows of Love because he loved his Mom dearly. I am a poet writer and can only say that most writers have hidden agenda behind there lines that come out in a total different meaning to the public.
Liz Branscumb I think you got it.
Thank you so much for this! This is exactly what this is about!
As someone who's mom was bound to a wheelchair due to MS when I was in my early teens up until her death many years later I can easily see where Maynard is coming from.
Since Liz brought up phony Christians and false Gods I'd like to suggest a song by the band Suicidal Tendencies. "Send me your money"
That is what it what it is about...with that as with the little info the pastor had and knowing nothing more he did a good explanation of what he got (from some info given before) from the song i can see how he got it....it is like only reading 1 paragraph of the Bible and not reading the whole story
I think you're right. I didn't see it that way but now I do. You described it so well! It ties perfectly with Wings for Marie.
I give you props for keeping an open-mind, but as others have explained you completely missed the entire point of the song. Maynard isn't expressing his anger against Christians as a whole, but towards the congregation that ostracized his mother after she was bound to a wheel chair and got sick and the blatant hypocrisy that Christians commonly display. The way I see it, if the shoe fits. Wear it with shame.
It's the dudes first time listening. Did you understand the meaning and or message of any tool or apc song when you first heard it? Because if you say yes, then I call bullshit.
@@thomasbowe9956 The time from when I first heard Tool's songs back in the mid/90's where there weren't many technological options and now where you can easily research things is a huge difference. "Listening to it for the first time" shouldn't be an acceptable excuse these days.
Exactly
This guy seems to always miss the point of the songs. Honestly he’s terrible at this.
Wglass90 he was actually... go watch the vineyard tape where he says he hates Christianity
On the title of the album, "Mers de Noms", almost all of the title tracks are names or refer to names, e.g.,
Judith, Magdalena, Rose, Orestes, Sleeping Beauty, Thomas, etc.
I never knew that, thank you!
I've always wondered why they were all names. Now it makes sense. Lol
And like that, the pastor becomes one of us. Welcome father. Here we are family.
“Wings for Marie” parts 1 and 2, as well as all of 10,000 Days, was dedicated to lead singer Maynard James Keenan’s mother Judith Marie Gridley. She passed away 3 years prior to the release of the album.
When Maynard was 11 years old, his mother suffered a brain aneurysm that left her paralyzed for the remainder of her life. Despite her unfortunate condition, she maintained a strong faith in God. Though Maynard would have odds with her views at times (as exemplified in A Perfect Circle’s “Judith”), he espouses in the album’s two-part dedication that because of her faith in such a trying episode, she above all others is deserving of Heaven.
The 10,000 days of the album’s title refers to the 27 years that Maynard’s mother lived after being paralyzed.
Finally someone got the story right.. Thank you
This is what I was told years ago when my birth mother first introduced me to Tool and A Perfect Circle.
10,000 days in the fire is long enough
You're going home...
"It's time now, my time now. Give me my, give me my, wings." Powerful
And Jimmy
Pastor was digging the sh*t out of this song...lol...it is a good song....
Its been so long since we did this reaction. I hope to revisit it again.
@@roberthoughton7127 always good to see and listen an open-mind, even though I'm not in religions.
Same here. Not religious, not into Christianity at all. But I’ll listen to this guy. He’s down to earth and reasonable. Not many people can have a civilized argument these days.
Bob seems like a really great guy. The son of any man this sweet and dear is faced with great difficultly at even just the though of breaking their heart.
It was written more to express how he could not believe his mothers faith in the church had gotten deeper, even though the church turned its back on her, and basically stated that she deserve to be where she is because of what she had done
"I disagree because I have the proper understanding"
An incredibly problematic statement.
I agree. Hearing them say that kinda makes sick a little. And I'm not even religious.
Agreed. That is the thing about taking away a message from music or any other form of media for that matter... Whatever you take away from something is what it should mean to you. If it changes your beliefs, great. If it solidifies your beliefs, great as well. I don't believe there is really any "proper understanding".
Yeah, him saying that definitely hurt his credibility in my eyes.
God is unknowable so saying he has the proper understanding is very... I'm not going to say arrogant but I'll say shows high hubris
Proper understanding... Yeah ok there bud
A great song. As a Christian, during the suffering of my dad’s passing, I knew he isn’t going to get better, I wasn’t praying for a miracle, l pray for a peaceful resolution, still he suffered for 3days before his passing, it was hard for my whole family. After his passing, i questioned my own faith. Like many others, we all can relate to this song.
I was raised Catholic, and when my Mom got sick and passed away, I was 17. I prayed so much for her during her illness, anyway, I almost lost my faith, but after some soul searching, I realized that if my mother had died, say, while giving birth to me, I would have never even knew her. I know it's a rose colored glasses thing, but it helped me very much at a terrible time......
Trials and tribulations
I'm a huge fan of Maynard's work, and I understand a lot of his lyrics but you gave me another point of view, the anger of the song is now more understandable thanks, greetings from Mexico
The problem with theodicy is that we consider it a problem because we're holding God's standards to our own and putting our sense of right above his.
I watched a YT video about it after a college philosophy course.
I'm not Christian, but I admire those with faith, of all kinds.
I’m an atheist and I’m on Maynard’s side here - but I love love love hearing counter arguments and love the openness and discussion. Growing up Lutheran this was very interesting for me. Nice job y’all 👍🏼
Im not in any way religious, I still find this very interesting to hear what these guys have to say, especially about a song that is (lyrically) so different their views,
I, too, get the goosebumples from MJK's lyrics :)
Saaaame
Personally, I think that the bible is a collection of stories. There are some that believe it happened verbatim, but like any written publication by humans, there is room for interpretation
We suffer from the day we are born till the day we die, but if we have faith in Jesus he will carry us through the bad times, and those who allows to suffer greatly he raises up onto his shoulders to show the world his mercy and gives them the strength to endure any trials or tribulations , he will give his grace,his love,his peace, to endure all trials and tribulations.
The devil is prowling lion looking for someone to devour, stand up to him strong in faith.
God bless.
I’m so deeply impressed that the younger guy remained quiet the whole time so that the pastor could have a an interrupted reaction. Very cool
Maynard understands the theology perfectly. He was raised in a devout Southern Baptist family. He is just disagreeing with it and pointing out what he personally finds to be contradictions. The biggest problem he seems to have with God's supposed plan is the amount of suffering it seems to involve. What is the limit of necessary evil? His argument: if God is so good, why does he need to use such overwhelming levels of suffering to make his plan work and for us to be guided towards him? This is what drives the anger of the song. Also, for additional background, one of the major themes and motifs of Mer De Noms is forgiveness and it's different stages.
Why are any evils "necessary"? An all loving god would have made an existence without such a thing...but since it exists this completely discounts to the Christian god of the bible by their own definition. Seeing as how they say the bible is the inviolable word of god then the book destroys its own god through logic.
@@davisiimdavisiim1295 That's how Christians will spin the Argument from Evil unfortunately. It's a manipulation of the idea that suffering is beneficial to growth.
Men in positions are who give out the pain and suffering not God. People bound in religion are the ones that get the suffering with no remedy cause they follow men and this world system. It’s in everyone’s faces and they will refuse to see it.
@@scottlefaivre2446 Oh I know he's from that area. Did you think I was saying he was from the south? Southern Baptists aren't just relegated to there. The name is such only because that denomination of Christianity has it's roots in the south.
This is a genius way to get the younger generations to hear discussion of the good book. I’d call myself “spiritual”, but I appreciate your willingness to hear and discuss things that may completely go against your beliefs.
This is art. Great musical composition, with amazing lyrics that express so much hurt Maynard felt. You don't have to agree with the lyrics to appreciate it.
As an agnostic I do like how they can put the emotion of the song as the focus and feel his pain and not just dismiss it even after the line "F*** YOUR GOD" slapped the pastor in the face it would have been easy to be tainted by that sentiment alone. That is what an open mind looks like religious or not saying this in 2021 most people are prone to knee jerk reactions we need to be like this more often
Well said
I saw that it was thank your god
But I also heard a different version also
As a Christian in the secular world I'm familiar with people having aggressive emotions towards my believes and some even think I'm mentally ill for believing it. Of course if I'm confronted with the emotions directly it is difficult not to be affected. But I can understand their feelings. I understand where they are coming from.
Agnosticism is weird aye. We want God but can't feel it. I wish I did. Some of the most serene people I have met are Christians. I think that's something worth understanding.
Maynard does not make errors.
*Reverend Maynard
;)
Except the new apc album
I believe you are mistaken.
What's a good song maybe I'll give it another listen? Just haven't been able to get into that album like all their other music
don't you mean Manyard
Inside the pastor's mind, "Fuck yeah this shit is awesome!"
Not inside - he literally admitted to it:-)
You’re speechless because this song makes more sense than your hogwarts of a religion
“Manyard”
*EDIT* *..IT..IS..MA’AMYARD!
Lol thought I was the only one who caught that
My gears began grinding each time I heard......ManYARD lol
Respect though to him for having good musical tastes despite the teachings he is surrounded by.
THANK YOU!!! FFS
Danny 😂
😂😂😂
Let us remember, though. This was not the end of the story for Maynard. After his mother’s death, I think that his feelings may have evolved some. I think he found some sort of closure. I don’t think he ever really forgave those that had forsaken his mother. But instead he found peace for her. (As heard in 10,000 days) “This little light of mine, a gift you passed unto me. I’m gonna let it shine to guide you safely on your way...” Several other lyrics in that set of songs hinted at Maynard’s coming to terms with his mother’s passing and his peace with her unrelenting faith. I feel that Judith is just part of the story and reflects his feelings at that point in his life.
Who is manyard? I know who Maynard is. lol
hes referring to the main yard
I freaking knew this comment was somewhere below as soon as I heard that lol
I prefer Manyard over May-nard that I’ve heard someone pronounce it on here.
Way back in the Toolband.com early days I used to login to the forums as Manyard and people thought I was Maynard himself. Good times.
"Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children."
- Eric Draven
I don't know Maynard personally, I also don't have a clear understanding of Christian theology. But what i'm quite sure of is that this is created out of love for her dearest mother, expressed in the form of song.
I like this pastor. I’m not religious at all but I like the fact he can discuss. Even if I don’t agree with the opinion. To me this is what it’s all about. being able to discuss, agree to disagree and have a mutual respect for ones opinion.
Same
He's obviously highly educated, and not just biblically.
Well...by that I take it you're probably one who doesn't like what he has to say...
I mean what he stands for, you know, as a pastor.
Well, I would just like to point out that molesting children is predominantly a Catholic thing, occasionally a Mormon thing, and that the guy in the videos is a normal Protestant pastor. And while I suppose Christian ministers can be greedy just like everyone else, they really don't hold a candle to Scientology, a religion founded on monetary principles. So...yeah...
Robert, I'd be willing to bet or assume that you and Maynard would have a fond appreciation for each other, only because he'd open up his views to hear you, as you have done for the art he's presented.. You'd be surprised to learn he is quite intelligent and his understanding of religion reaches quite far.. He also has a very proper understanding that most Christians assume and judge others with just a few shreds of information, as you have done in this video..
We’ve all got to start somewhere. I’ve learned a ton reading the comments on this video. Actually about to listen to MJK audiobook. Still think he’s off on his understanding of Christian theology but I don’t doubt he’s an intelligent man otherwise.
@@roberthoughton7127 Thank you for replying! I also saw the followup with Wings 1&2. Even had my wife watch and we both thought that you've both really done wonderful in exploring this (these) musician(s). We (my wife and I), were both were raised Christians, who also realized all too young some of the hypocrisy in the church. We were not allowed to question anything and it put a real divide between what I then, and mostly still feel about Christianity. Wonderful teachings, a true guide to our confused hearts with the understanding that religion, and it's believers can be just as diverse as any understanding or other religion that I've come to know in my 41 years on this planet. We're all humans. That's about the only thing that makes perfect sense to me. :)
"Oddly the song is still good" lmfao, basically me the first time I heard it, I was like, oh hey I love A Perfect Circle, then I was like, oh hey, uh, what'd he just say, but this riff slays and his vocals are killer.
I've always liked this song.
I used to blame God for my poor choices and not getting what I wanted or thought that I needed.
But now I'm hoping to see the light.
My God my Lord my Jesus Christ.
Please... the whole video I was waiting for the pastor to analyze the lyrics “he did it all for you”, but was sorely disappointed. In my opinion these five words turn the whole meaning of the song 180 degrees. If the lyrics are as ignorant as the pastor implies than it would be “he did it all to you”. “He did it all FOR you” emphasizes the redemption that would be presumably granted to his mother for her unwavering faith. He (God) did it(allowed it to happen) for (to have or take possession of) you (Marie). That is why she can demand her wings in the song Wings for Marie Part 2, elevated to heaven.
We can also take this one step further as if she (his mother) is saying this sentence to Maynard or even the church community. God did this all to her, for them, so that they may live by her example of faithfulness and therefore be redeemed also.
He was angry and questioning but there is an answer by the end and a redeeming quality by summary. Even if it’s only for her.
I could be wrong but am I really the only one whose thought of this?
Good interpretation. Would love to hear Maynard's meaning on these lyrics
Overanalysing separates the body from the mind.
I see Wings as a shift in perspective caused by her death. He's less harsh on her faith now.
Well..Maynard's mom isn't singing it, so no, you can't take it as her words to others. Interpretation is fine but it has it's limits. Sometimes, even with Tool, the most obvious answer is the correct one. "He did it all for you" is merely a spiteful comment to his mother in an attempt for her to realize how illogical it is to worship God, especially considering what happened to her and how it completely debilitated her life.
@@dcinsc You should read my comment again
You're such an inspiration for the ways that I will never ever choose to be.
you do understand the meaning of that line right? hes saying his mothers situation is the reason why he will never believe and trust in god. hes not saying anything good there
Agreed. I guess Christians are like the police. Don’t really care for them until you need em. Lol
JAMES FINELY thats why he said it
@@jamesfinely2486 OH YOU DON'T SAY?! captain obvious
@@jamesfinely2486 you kinda missed it. Maybe think of it as different views of good.
manyard? blasphemy
Problem is I might just start saying that from now on to make myself giggle, in full belief that MJK wouldn't be bothered by it.
Annoying AF
No longer lost, it's okay, you are allowed to say "fuck"
There is no one to judge his blasphemy. And one who would b offended and judge by such is no god to me.
"So let me go ahead and defend my bullsh!+ religion because of excuse after excuse after excuse."
This dude's take on the whole situation is exactly why Maynard created this song.
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I don’t understand, please explain?
Maynard had help to write the song. From ... others. You may laugh.... but his drummer famously asks those others for assistance with his work.
I wish I could hit the like button a thousand times
@@rosscarpenter9611 Because the song isn't so much a dig on God, from Maynard's perspective, it's about (and in ways from the perspective of) the other "followers of God" who rejected Judith after the stroke, and even made it seem like she deserved it because of something she did in God's eyes. They falsely applied Christian logic to her situation and outcast her. They failed to look beyond their pompous self-aggrandization with compassion. Maynard's saying "fuck THAT God" ...who would quickly turn his back on his believers...the God that all of the other followers that rejected Judith believe he is.
And these guys (no fault of theirs, they didn't know the context) completely misjudged the message and simplified it into a penny candy sermon.
Maynard is criticizing the average follower of the Church.
I love tool/apc/Maynard, but I never understood why the fan base is so pretentious. It's the dudes first time listening to this. For anybody to act like they had the meaning of the lyrics and song figured out when you first listened, you're lying.
Exactly and what do you really expect from a Christian minister lol
@@radbarij don't get me wrong, I'm just a passing random atheist, but Christianity doesn't make any claims that God is giving pastors access to information that the rest of us don't have, or the ability to instantly understand tool songs.
Completely agree. The level of smug within their fan base is ridiculous. They literally worship the guy. Like. Chill. I love tool and anything Maynard. But lord. Give it a rest.
Ben Detta Maynard himself gets tired of how ridiculous they are.he’s said so many times
No. You are just slow.
"Oddly, it's still a good song." It's a great song, dudes. Don't let Belief cloud your mind.
Every time they said that, i was dumbfounded. Like OF COURSE it’s a good song. It’s fucking Maynard
By that logic you let good songs decide your belief. that is even more shallow than what you are trying to point out.
@@MrYellingdingo And you're believing that I have beliefs. Open your mind.
@@konasurfah Everyone does. Even a belief in nothing is belief.
@@MrYellingdingo I wish you luck in your endeavors. Thoughts and truth are different than beliefs!
The song wasn't about MJK being mad at God, he was mad because his mother's church said she brought the sickness on herself. This is coming directly from MJK in interviews and his book, "A Perfect Union of Contrary Things".
Re: "Sea of Names"
Take a look at the album's track listing. lol
@@mytubechanneI Really? I thought it was pretty straightforward...
Looking at the track list should give you insight into why the album is called "sea of names."
12 tracks. Out of those 12, only 4 songs have titles that are NOT names. The Hollow, 3 Libras, Thinking of You, and Over.
Each other track is a proper name or title. Magdalena, Rose, Judith, Orestes, Sleeping Beauty, Thomas, Renholder, Brena
@@FromNothingICome I didn't think about this too much, but thank you for pointing it out :D
VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL ... a Sea of Names does not mean it is ALL names, just like the sea isn’t all water.
Haven't been a Christian for a good few years now but I still love to see Christian people praising songs I love even though it speaks out against your religion. It's heartwarming and I hold a lot of respect for you!
I love the fact that he still likes the song despite disagreeing with it to his core.. cannot deny a good song when you hear it..
Call me crazy. Not a believer of god but i believe in the power of god and the good it can do for people. I appreciate you guys being respectful and open minded. Awesome
Knowing what you know about this song, listen to 10,000 Days by Tool. 10,000 Days came out 6 years later and showed the change in Maynard’s perception
I also commented they should review 10,000 days
I was going to say the same thing, took the words right out of my mouth!
They did! Actually, I didnt realize it when I commented.
Right in two.
Her name was Judith Marie. You should listen to Wings for Marie part 1 and 2 off Tool 10000 days. It goes hand in hand with this song! Same vocalist Maynard!
First, I applaud you for being open enough to listen to music outside of your church construct. That shows great character. Many religious people simply condemn without reasoning thru what others are saying to them. Kudos.
Wirh that being said, think about all of the good you would do if you had the power any of the supposed gods do, now consider the fact that you worship a god who does non of those things.
Children dying of famine daily.
Murders.
Rapes.
Disease.
Etc...
IMHO you're driving backward. Sure you can begin your spiritual journey with anger against God, but it's just the trigger to looking much further in details (increasingly from telescope to microscope).
What I found so far:
- God won't grant you gifts "for free", all he's interested in is your personal improvement. He may give you some helping if you ask for it (but don't forget he may not grant you what you want but rather what you need, which may be very different), but he definitely won't do it for you (his adversary will, along with every physical illusions like winning lottery etc).
- God always work along your side. He will let you fight a war if you want it. He just accepts that you dismiss him from your life, that's your right (atheism accepted, until you're sick of being a spiritual orphan and go back to him, or not).
- Our freedom is cherished by him. He accepts our future suffering if we want it (mostly likely because ignorance). Eventually, he's faith you will get sick of it.
Anyway, you didn't ask for it, sorry, but I just got a bit passionate (triggered?) by what you said...
Sure, and while hes at it he could take away everything that makes the world bad in any shape or form, not just the evil but even the slight inconveniences, and make us all rich and beautiful just for good measure. Do you see where im going with this? If youve ever watched the matrix when Agent smith is talking to morpheus and he says that the original matrix was a pure paradise but it didnt work. Same concept. No one wants Children dying, rape, and murder. But imagine if you were the creator ( which btw is impossible to truly understand ) if you were going to create the universe making a perfect place would be rendered pointless
@Richard Duenaz I'm not sure if you have children, but as a devout parent to my own child, I could never allow terrible things to happen to him just because he isn't perfect. That's not what love is. I can understand allowing him to learn life's lessons through trial and error, but allowing for something like paralysis is ridiculous. That is not a lesson or a punishment. How can you consider the failure to prevent paralysis, starvation, murder, rape, disease, etc. as "coddling?"
If you believe there is a cosmic father figure up there somewhere that loves you, reevaluate your definition of love. And if this type of "penance" fits your paradigm, then I sincerely hope you do not ever have children, as he/she would be an incredibly confused child.
We have free will and God doesn’t grant Christians an exemption from the worlds problems. And those crazies before the flood would’ve raised more crazies. Start fresh
@@TheDaygobah You realize how UNIMPORTANT this life is when you consider ETERNITY? If all human life was sooo evil and so far from God, you could say he simply saved all those innocent children and babes from a shitty life in this world followed by damnation, for eternal happiness..
Change your perspective if you want to understand. If God is real, would you fear him? Maybe that's why you are so convinced there is not one.
Interesting facts about this song and video.. the bass player/backup singer is Paz Lenchantin who is now with the Pixies…
The music video for Judith was directed by David Fincher, then known as the director of Fight Club, Se7en, and music videos for Aerosmith, Madonna, and Michael Jackson.
There is also a radio exit version of the song where the line is changed to “Love your God!” Instead of the ‘f’ word