Yeah, really productive for the labour party. Seriously..... the party needs to sort itself out. Boris needs to be ousted. How the f are they going to do that with all the bitching
I'm honestly shocked that it took this long for them to confront this insanity. Maybe I shouldn't be... but holy hell, this was egregious. Is the Labour party just THIS unfamiliar with right-wing propaganda?
The question is, what happens now? Labour will still lose in 24 and all this will have been for nothing. So where do we go? A new party will flop and be monstered by the media, so that's just pissing in the wind, and any chance of unified mass movement with enough heft to change things feels a long way off. Do we wait till the working class Brexiteers finally feel the betrayl that's coming down the line and join with them?
@@oddjam I don't know. I know I'm furious at our entire political class, and I know I can't be the only one who feels that way, and I know it's not just the left that feel it either - It is whether and how that anger can galvanise us all. Where that common cause is, finding the aggrement. I suppose that would be that elusive class consciousness wouldn't it?
@@timk6181 sure, but the Steve Bannon's of the world are currently trying to create a pseudo class-consciousness around the idea that "elites" (if you get my euphemism) are the sole cause of these issues. He/they WANT the left & "populist" right to galvanize together, because they want to veer our public outrage towards fascism instead of egalitarianism. I'm extremely worried that they'll be somewhat successful.
Indeed. If the mass deselections these careerists were crying about had actually happened, we would have ended up much better off. Blairism will never die until the last Blairite is rightfully booted. Instead, "Sir" Keir is running/purging the party. And the country is ruined for at least a generation.
@@panchopuskas1 It's not strictly 'Stalinist' to stand up for yourself! My only problem with the corbyn leadership is that, in hindsight, this softly softly approach has opened up avenues for further sabotage.
@@whatamalike I agree. I still think it's worthwhile to TRY (for a variety of reasons), but I agree that it doesn't really work. We'll need a mass movement of workers & a grass-roots uprising if we want to actually change things for the better.
@@oddjam Of course we had to try; couldn't just keep rattling from the sidelines all us lives! But hey ho, unless there's a consolidated popular extraparlimentary group (one bordering on, dare i say, revolutionary activity on the streets of every major town and city) that can pick up all us corbynites and more, that's where we're headed.
Sounds like a very British coup before a very British coup became necessary for the right wing. We can imagine all the forces that would have been arraigned against JC had he got into office.
This shit will NEVER get better. These forces will fight us tooth & nail for the rest of their existence, and for the rest of our lives.. and they have far more money/resources than we do. That's why we have to do it by ourselves.
@@oddjam Our inherently conservative and inflexible institutions, our convoluted political system and our apathetic population mean that Britain will be the very last domino to fall. Corbyn never had a chance really.
@@NosyFella of course not; sorry to be a nihilist! We have more potential than we've had in decades & the world is changing radically. Besides, I've already chosen to dedicate myself to the fight.. regardless of how successful we are.
Meanwhile at least two of those Whatsapp bullies are working in key positions in unison. Unison’s leadership is brushing that aside using covid-19 as a useful diversionary tactic. As if they are unable to concentrate on more than one thing at a time.
As soon as this shit started to happen he should have gone to headquarters, lined them all up and laid it on the line, it's my way or the highway, no second chances, and once you're out, your out.!
Do we really have time for this kind of navel gazing when THOUSANDS of Britons have died; I'm not asserting these matters are not important but it's a question of priorities - Labour has to be an effective Government-in-waiting showing an alternative to the Tories. Instead people are bitching and complaining about losing multiple elections to, seemingly, salvage their career prospects and flagging egos with 'what if's' & 'maybe's'? No, elections were lost because radicals wanted to indulge their political whimsy much like the ERG did, successfully, in foisting policy upon the Conservatives that will likely lead to their near implosion come February 2021 if the Civil Service hasn't ameliorated the worse affects of Brexit and Covid19? Inquiries like this are supposed to be a learning process to identify failings and to correcting them. And then to, ultimately, draw a line under these and move on to martial the Party machine into winning, again!
An "effective government-in-waiting" would identify the people who undermined said government, hold them to account (both in permanent banishment and criminal liability), rather than sweeping it under the rug. Publish all data, make it transparent, hold the people involved to account-ONLY then can you move on. It's also VERY EASY to do this while coming up with a plan to deal with other issues like SARS-CoV-2. I understand that Starmer is very "forensic" and an incredible leader (why would the media outlets gush so much otherwise?), so handling multiple tasks like these at once should be a breeze for such a talented and skilled man.
@@feydrautha012 I have to admit I am somewhat persuaded by your rebuttal and reminder of how important it is that Labour deals with these issues, and it will indeed inform the Electorate as to their suitability for Government. Labour is at least trying to address these internecine niggles, while the Conservatives, by comparison, seem to have surrendered to the sociopaths and psychotics amongst them? That all said some of the statements about deliberately standing in the way of Corbyn`s rightness as Leader and wasted potential as Prime Minister do smack of vainglory; how many of these `saboteurs` helped him reduce Theresa May`s majority to near zero but for the Ulster Unionists; after these `obstructionists` were purged in the time in between and the 2019 Election, you should ask yourself how their absence affected Corbyn`s chances of becoming PM then? Too many `if`s` `but`s` & `maybe`s` for my liking but there are lessons to be learned and then lead our Country away from the situation where Left & Right wings are playing both sides against the majority in the middle. Nice words which I sincerely wish would be as easily enacted as they are expressed but in reality there is so much to do to repair the damage of the Great Game being played at our collective expense.
The Labour left weren't planning to stand anyone and only did so from external pressure. No one stepped forward, McDonnell and Abbot both said no - so Corbyn stood. Corbyn won by accident, it isn't a surprise he didn't fight - I doubt he even had a plan at first. Btw I agree with you - he didn't show fight against internal opponents - even when the wind blew in his favour. He wouldnt have been my first choice of MP to lead the left. And he didn't manage to force open selection either. But he did the best he could and he still is. Still a fucking legend.
Imagine a hypothetical situation where someone's making fun of a group of people dying and then you say something rude to them and getting in trouble for saying the rude thing. Would you pull the "right wing" defence of to see it in its context?
Why can’t the Labour Party just embrace Communism like we want, everything would be fine then. Only problem is the working class; why can’t they see the Benefits of our wealth distribution plans? Jeremy Corbyn would have forced it all through if only he was elected.
No one, absolutely no one could have weathered the amount of abuse Corbyn received in the last 5 years, and still remain dignified, without possibly the owning largest pair already.
I often wondered who all the 👎🏼 naysayers were on here... and here many of you are ! If you don't approve of the words on Labours membership card: "The Labour Party is a democratic Socialist party" then WHY clutter up Novara with all you negative comments.😡
This is the 1st time I'm seeing Novara bombarded with Corporate liberal nonsense. I think it's orchestrated, now that you mention it. Corporate liberals are a corrupt insidious set of ghouls. I hate them more than the right because they actually fool liberals. It's all an act with that culture. They believe in nothing.
Time to move on and get behind Starmer. We are a democratic party and the people have voted overwhelmingly against Corbyn and Momentum. It is time to take back the party from the radicals and work for the moderate majority of British people again.
Lol, get bent. Corbyn won overwhelming victories but you didn't see the labour right talking about getting behind Corbyn blah blah blah it's what the people want. Fuck that. They spent 5 years tearing him down until people finally went off him, proving you can change people's minds, and that's exactly what we can do in reverse. I refuse to let this double standard go unchallenged. Where the left is demonised for even attempting to stand their ground on something and the right is just allowed to dig their heels in for 5 years, slander and spit bile, and when they finally win they start gas lighting us about how nice they've been and how we should all come together as we're all allies after all. Fuck that. They declared war on us and there has been no ceasefire. They've won a battle, but the war is still on as far as I'm concerned.
Corbyn was a disaster, and there are others to blame also. I voted for him, I am very left wing, I liked many of the policies, but on the only real policy which really mattered - our membership of the EU - he was a disaster, and he ripped the party apart. He was also authoritarian, and the NEC became authoritarian. He's supposed to follow the will of party members - he ignored us. Starmer might get Labour in, and some of the more left programmes may get approved at conference and taken forward by the leader, as is how it is supposed to work. Let's try to choose options to win instead of keeping Labour in opposition. We must have leaders which are electable and with whom people feel they can work with. We want a likable team not a regime.
@John Singer I'd be happier losing a limb than voting Tory. But it seems you'd rather be permanently stuck in opposition by supporting leaders a lot of the public have said they wouldn't vote for. And please try to remember that the vast majority of Labour supporters are Pro-EU, whilst Jeremy was clearly anti-EU, a clear contraindication of the will of the membership. Any leader who defies the clearly laid out position of the membership should be ousted. I don't like having to say that, but it has to be said. The Labour Party has rules for how to conduct ourselves, but sometimes they're being deliberately ignored. Perhaps you are a Tory troll trying to sabotage discussion, to stifle our attempts to build bridges with our brothers and sisters in the Labour Party, to reach the common goals we share, to put the country first.
It makes me laugh. Partisan politics regardless of effectiviity. All that matters is a red/blue team victory and the game remains the same. Along came Corbyn, refusing to play the game he just sat on the ball. The game's owners went ballistic and the game's fans started booing. Corbyn went away by hook or by crook and game's back on. The game's owners are back in pocket and the game's fans are back to cheering from the terraces whilst eagerly awaiting the much touted new series of Spitting Image. What really makes me laugh is that during Corbyn's reign as opposition leader more socialist policies got enacted (because of Corbyn) by the incumbent government than at any time in living memory. The fact that the majority chose to ignore this in favour of simply rooting for the red/blue team no doubt induced a collective sigh of relief from the game owners.
@@gerrabath I have my own reasons for wanting a Green, Labour or LibDem government, or any type of coalition between those, rather than live under a Tory one. And I think it's best for the majority in this country also. Labour have the best chance of achieving this, on their own, or as a coalition with the Greens or LibDem. Labour enacted many laws which benefitted people like me, Tories mostly opposed those. Tories appear naturally regressive and repressive, the others are all progressive, enabling equality and personal freedom. I wish Labour supporters and members could stop internal squabbling and work together, but there are always some people who aren't able to see that negotiation and peace talks require compromise on both sides. Those self-centered individuals spoil it for the majority. Those self-centered individuals often include very powerful people - but last time I looked it was one member, one vote. The Labour Party now needs to take much more notice of members - and perhaps we need personnel changes where there are blockers to progress and team work.
@@KarakuraNinja I support unilateral nuclear disarmament. Most EU countries do not have nukes and do fine. All wars now use conventional weapons, thankfully. That's £100b over 10 years to spend on useful things, poverty, homelessness, NHS, job creation, education.
No more Mr Nice Guy. Corbyn finally fighting back. I hope he takes no prisoners.
I wish he had been more combative when he was leader.
Nice guys finish last. Something Corbyn acted upon too late.
Harjinder Saini agreed.
@@DrRiq agree
Yeah, really productive for the labour party. Seriously..... the party needs to sort itself out. Boris needs to be ousted. How the f are they going to do that with all the bitching
I'm honestly shocked that it took this long for them to confront this insanity. Maybe I shouldn't be... but holy hell, this was egregious. Is the Labour party just THIS unfamiliar with right-wing propaganda?
He should have been outspoken on this when he was leader. He tried to be accommodating and it didn't work.
The question is, what happens now? Labour will still lose in 24 and all this will have been for nothing. So where do we go? A new party will flop and be monstered by the media, so that's just pissing in the wind, and any chance of unified mass movement with enough heft to change things feels a long way off. Do we wait till the working class Brexiteers finally feel the betrayl that's coming down the line and join with them?
@@timk6181 this is the crux of the matter imo. I honestly don't know what can be done.... what do you think?
@@oddjam I don't know. I know I'm furious at our entire political class, and I know I can't be the only one who feels that way, and I know it's not just the left that feel it either - It is whether and how that anger can galvanise us all. Where that common cause is, finding the aggrement. I suppose that would be that elusive class consciousness wouldn't it?
@@timk6181 sure, but the Steve Bannon's of the world are currently trying to create a pseudo class-consciousness around the idea that "elites" (if you get my euphemism) are the sole cause of these issues. He/they WANT the left & "populist" right to galvanize together, because they want to veer our public outrage towards fascism instead of egalitarianism. I'm extremely worried that they'll be somewhat successful.
Corbyn points, McDonnell rips out throats...that's how it should've been 4 years ago!
Indeed. If the mass deselections these careerists were crying about had actually happened, we would have ended up much better off. Blairism will never die until the last Blairite is rightfully booted.
Instead, "Sir" Keir is running/purging the party. And the country is ruined for at least a generation.
@@panchopuskas1 It's not strictly 'Stalinist' to stand up for yourself!
My only problem with the corbyn leadership is that, in hindsight, this softly softly approach has opened up avenues for further sabotage.
Shoulda purged them when you had the chance jezza boy.
That wouldn't have worked anyway. Capitalist hegemony seeps into everything.. and you can't AVOID reactionary propaganda/counter-revolutionaries.
@@oddjam This to me demonstrates that attempting to change things from within simply doesn't work within such a rigid structure.
We've wasted 5 years
@@whatamalike I agree. I still think it's worthwhile to TRY (for a variety of reasons), but I agree that it doesn't really work. We'll need a mass movement of workers & a grass-roots uprising if we want to actually change things for the better.
@@oddjam Of course we had to try; couldn't just keep rattling from the sidelines all us lives!
But hey ho, unless there's a consolidated popular extraparlimentary group (one bordering on, dare i say, revolutionary activity on the streets of every major town and city) that can pick up all us corbynites and more, that's where we're headed.
@@whatamalike ain't that the fucking truth
Edit: ALLEGEDLY
Sounds like a very British coup before a very British coup became necessary for the right wing. We can imagine all the forces that would have been arraigned against JC had he got into office.
This shit will NEVER get better. These forces will fight us tooth & nail for the rest of their existence, and for the rest of our lives.. and they have far more money/resources than we do. That's why we have to do it by ourselves.
@@oddjam Our inherently conservative and inflexible institutions, our convoluted political system and our apathetic population mean that Britain will be the very last domino to fall. Corbyn never had a chance really.
@@NosyFella god, that's so depressing, but probably true.
@@oddjam doesn't mean the left in this country should just give up though. Who knows what might happen.
@@NosyFella of course not; sorry to be a nihilist! We have more potential than we've had in decades & the world is changing radically. Besides, I've already chosen to dedicate myself to the fight.. regardless of how successful we are.
Meanwhile at least two of those Whatsapp bullies are working in key positions in unison. Unison’s leadership is brushing that aside using covid-19 as a useful diversionary tactic. As if they are unable to concentrate on more than one thing at a time.
The car parking scam has been extended to schools. Strange how all the private healthcare facilities and private schools don’t charge for parking.
We know labour party is in a mess but corbyn should have been more courageous in dealing with the Saboteurs
Totally agree with Aaron.
They should release everything, let us see this "context" they speak of
This needs to be top priority expose the agents
I agree. If there outed we can get them knighted
Umm...it is not "accusation" when the proof is out there.
He is so right! From the very second the result was announced the "Great and good" of the Labour party lined up to say they wouldn't serve under him.
The right wing Labour preferred a Tory win then a left wing Labour win
Outrageous
Arron is right show evrything , and tell the whole story 🤗
Thank You Both
And they wonder the British electorate wanted no part of them.....
So sad I wish Corbyn the best. I am really so horrified that this could happen. Makes me want to cry.
Glad Corbyn finally caught up. Pity they already destroyed his chances before he did.
As soon as this shit started to happen he should have gone to headquarters, lined them all up and laid it on the line, it's my way or the highway, no second chances, and once you're out, your out.!
Do we really have time for this kind of navel gazing when THOUSANDS of Britons have died; I'm not asserting these matters are not important but it's a question of priorities - Labour has to be an effective Government-in-waiting showing an alternative to the Tories.
Instead people are bitching and complaining about losing multiple elections to, seemingly, salvage their career prospects and flagging egos with 'what if's' & 'maybe's'?
No, elections were lost because radicals wanted to indulge their political whimsy much like the ERG did, successfully, in foisting policy upon the Conservatives that will likely lead to their near implosion come February 2021 if the Civil Service hasn't ameliorated the worse affects of Brexit and Covid19?
Inquiries like this are supposed to be a learning process to identify failings and to correcting them. And then to, ultimately, draw a line under these and move on to martial the Party machine into winning, again!
An "effective government-in-waiting" would identify the people who undermined said government, hold them to account (both in permanent banishment and criminal liability), rather than sweeping it under the rug.
Publish all data, make it transparent, hold the people involved to account-ONLY then can you move on. It's also VERY EASY to do this while coming up with a plan to deal with other issues like SARS-CoV-2. I understand that Starmer is very "forensic" and an incredible leader (why would the media outlets gush so much otherwise?), so handling multiple tasks like these at once should be a breeze for such a talented and skilled man.
@@feydrautha012 I have to admit I am somewhat persuaded by your rebuttal and reminder of how important it is that Labour deals with these issues, and it will indeed inform the Electorate as to their suitability for Government.
Labour is at least trying to address these internecine niggles, while the Conservatives, by comparison, seem to have surrendered to the sociopaths and psychotics amongst them?
That all said some of the statements about deliberately standing in the way of Corbyn`s rightness as Leader and wasted potential as Prime Minister do smack of vainglory; how many of these `saboteurs` helped him reduce Theresa May`s majority to near zero but for the Ulster Unionists; after these `obstructionists` were purged in the time in between and the 2019 Election, you should ask yourself how their absence affected Corbyn`s chances of becoming PM then?
Too many `if`s` `but`s` & `maybe`s` for my liking but there are lessons to be learned and then lead our Country away from the situation where Left & Right wings are playing both sides against the majority in the middle. Nice words which I sincerely wish would be as easily enacted as they are expressed but in reality there is so much to do to repair the damage of the Great Game being played at our collective expense.
I'm sorry but if Corbyn was a stronger leader this would never have happened.
No Gods, no leaders. They make us weak.
@@oddjam I 100% agree, we need to take more responsibility for ourselves and start really implementing Direct Democracy.
The Labour left weren't planning to stand anyone and only did so from external pressure. No one stepped forward, McDonnell and Abbot both said no - so Corbyn stood.
Corbyn won by accident, it isn't a surprise he didn't fight - I doubt he even had a plan at first.
Btw I agree with you - he didn't show fight against internal opponents - even when the wind blew in his favour. He wouldnt have been my first choice of MP to lead the left. And he didn't manage to force open selection either. But he did the best he could and he still is. Still a fucking legend.
I’m 100% Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Neil Kinnock will be laughing their backsides off after seeing this!
Dianne Abbott was a liability to the party she was not up to it , backbencher at best.
We know it’s true but I wish he wouldn’t. Just gives those who are critical of him to shout “ see I told you he was a sore loser!”
Imagine a hypothetical situation where someone's making fun of a group of people dying and then you say something rude to them and getting in trouble for saying the rude thing. Would you pull the "right wing" defence of to see it in its context?
Why can’t the Labour Party just embrace Communism like we want, everything would be fine then. Only problem is the working class; why can’t they see the Benefits of our wealth distribution plans? Jeremy Corbyn would have forced it all through if only he was elected.
Ah men!
The problem isn’t socialism, it’s socialists!
So he's finally growing himself a pair?
No one, absolutely no one could have weathered the amount of abuse Corbyn received in the last 5 years, and still remain dignified, without possibly the owning largest pair already.
I often wondered who all the 👎🏼 naysayers were on here... and here many of you are ! If you don't approve of the words on Labours membership card: "The Labour Party is a democratic Socialist party" then WHY clutter up Novara with all you negative comments.😡
This is the 1st time I'm seeing Novara bombarded with Corporate liberal nonsense. I think it's orchestrated, now that you mention it.
Corporate liberals are a corrupt insidious set of ghouls. I hate them more than the right because they actually fool liberals. It's all an act with that culture. They believe in nothing.
Corbyn who ?
Kelvin who ?
@@clincpb8903 ....exactly
@@clincpb8903 Where are all these K-Hive sounding liberals coming from? I know none of these actors watch Novara.
Time to move on and get behind Starmer. We are a democratic party and the people have voted overwhelmingly against Corbyn and Momentum.
It is time to take back the party from the radicals and work for the moderate majority of British people again.
Lol, get bent. Corbyn won overwhelming victories but you didn't see the labour right talking about getting behind Corbyn blah blah blah it's what the people want. Fuck that. They spent 5 years tearing him down until people finally went off him, proving you can change people's minds, and that's exactly what we can do in reverse.
I refuse to let this double standard go unchallenged. Where the left is demonised for even attempting to stand their ground on something and the right is just allowed to dig their heels in for 5 years, slander and spit bile, and when they finally win they start gas lighting us about how nice they've been and how we should all come together as we're all allies after all. Fuck that. They declared war on us and there has been no ceasefire. They've won a battle, but the war is still on as far as I'm concerned.
I have moved on. Left Labour party 2 months ago.
Is this sarcasm? You sound like our American, corporate liberals if this is a real comment.
4 years too late....
adobe. - about 50 quid a month, rip off.
Corbyn was a disaster, and there are others to blame also. I voted for him, I am very left wing, I liked many of the policies, but on the only real policy which really mattered - our membership of the EU - he was a disaster, and he ripped the party apart. He was also authoritarian, and the NEC became authoritarian. He's supposed to follow the will of party members - he ignored us. Starmer might get Labour in, and some of the more left programmes may get approved at conference and taken forward by the leader, as is how it is supposed to work. Let's try to choose options to win instead of keeping Labour in opposition. We must have leaders which are electable and with whom people feel they can work with. We want a likable team not a regime.
@John Singer I'd be happier losing a limb than voting Tory. But it seems you'd rather be permanently stuck in opposition by supporting leaders a lot of the public have said they wouldn't vote for. And please try to remember that the vast majority of Labour supporters are Pro-EU, whilst Jeremy was clearly anti-EU, a clear contraindication of the will of the membership. Any leader who defies the clearly laid out position of the membership should be ousted. I don't like having to say that, but it has to be said. The Labour Party has rules for how to conduct ourselves, but sometimes they're being deliberately ignored. Perhaps you are a Tory troll trying to sabotage discussion, to stifle our attempts to build bridges with our brothers and sisters in the Labour Party, to reach the common goals we share, to put the country first.
@@KarakuraNinja did you support unilateral nuclear disarmament as Corbyn would have liked to put forward?
It makes me laugh. Partisan politics regardless of effectiviity. All that matters is a red/blue team victory and the game remains the same. Along came Corbyn, refusing to play the game he just sat on the ball. The game's owners went ballistic and the game's fans started booing. Corbyn went away by hook or by crook and game's back on. The game's owners are back in pocket and the game's fans are back to cheering from the terraces whilst eagerly awaiting the much touted new series of Spitting Image.
What really makes me laugh is that during Corbyn's reign as opposition leader more socialist policies got enacted (because of Corbyn) by the incumbent government than at any time in living memory. The fact that the majority chose to ignore this in favour of simply rooting for the red/blue team no doubt induced a collective sigh of relief from the game owners.
@@gerrabath I have my own reasons for wanting a Green, Labour or LibDem government, or any type of coalition between those, rather than live under a Tory one. And I think it's best for the majority in this country also. Labour have the best chance of achieving this, on their own, or as a coalition with the Greens or LibDem. Labour enacted many laws which benefitted people like me, Tories mostly opposed those. Tories appear naturally regressive and repressive, the others are all progressive, enabling equality and personal freedom. I wish Labour supporters and members could stop internal squabbling and work together, but there are always some people who aren't able to see that negotiation and peace talks require compromise on both sides. Those self-centered individuals spoil it for the majority. Those self-centered individuals often include very powerful people - but last time I looked it was one member, one vote. The Labour Party now needs to take much more notice of members - and perhaps we need personnel changes where there are blockers to progress and team work.
@@KarakuraNinja I support unilateral nuclear disarmament. Most EU countries do not have nukes and do fine. All wars now use conventional weapons, thankfully. That's £100b over 10 years to spend on useful things, poverty, homelessness, NHS, job creation, education.
Fuck this all makes me so sad.