Variable RPM in a coffee grinder -Does it matter? (Timemore Sculptor 078S)
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- This video explores the effects of grinder RPM on espresso extraction times and flavours.
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
2:26 Medium Roast- effect of rpm
4:41 Light roast- effect of rpm
6:06 Dark roast- effect of rpm
7:15 Interpretation of data
9:24 Conclusions 
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Honestly, thank you for putting in the work. I tried your suggestions today, lowering grind speed, and I can't believe what a difference it made. I greatly appreciate that you went to the trouble to share the info.
Glad you found it useful😊
Great video!! I love your deep dive and level of testing and experimenting for this topic. I recently acquired a DF83V which is my first variable RPM grinder, and I have a Timemore 078 on the way. I had planned to do a video on this same topic after I've had more time to experiment. Keep up the great work!
Glad you enjoyed the video! Would love to know what you find with the DF83V.
I have more or less the same experience with SSP Cast V2 on the P64. Lower RPMs are easier to dial in but lack clarity. Depending on the coffee I prefer one or the other. Low RPMs can give me higher body and juiciness with light filter roasts and I can bump clarity on medium roasts when using higher RPM. So there definitely is a difference. Thanks for tasting all this.
Cant wait to try this once my 078s comes in. Thank you for the video!
Glad you liked the video! It’s a brilliant grinder but takes a bit of time to get used to.
Interesting! This parallels my own experience with this grinder. I'm using light roast and a blooming profile on a Flair. I ended up at 1100 rpm, because with faster settings, there was a lot of channeling.
Great! 1100 rpm is absolutely the most stable setting!
Great video! Can't wait to get my 078s, hopefully this month!
Nice! You won’t be disappointed. It does take a while to get used to though and is not very forgiving. But with time and a bit of seasoning (not 6kg as mentioned by other reviewers) things get a lot easier. You will notice it’s much easier to dial in after about a kilo or so. But even before that, it still produces great espresso.
I got my 078s since the beginning of October.
When it comes to extraction, I realised that lower RPM for filter was nice to improve the complexity and depths of flavors.
On the other hand, for expresso, I usually stick to the mid range around 1100 RPM because it's less tricky to dial in and the flavors are just nicely balanced.
I dont have any WDT tool yet but I might try to increase the RPM speed closer to the max settings when I'll have one to see if i can push to the limit the clarity and the flavors.
I mostly use medium to light roast for expresso but i think the grinder suits better for medium profiles, at least with my bambino plus.
Thank you for the great video !
Thanks for sharing your experience. WDT will make a big difference. You don’t need any specialist WDT tool. 0.3 mm acupuncture needles in a cork is good enough!
@@UnderstandingCoffee a Friend of mine is the owner of a specialty coffee and does have one spare for me so hopefully I'll not have to buy anything.
I think there is room for improvement in the 1100/1300 range without having to deal with too many issues like 1400 does.
Great video! My findings with the 078s have been that the RPM hasn't really made much of a detectable difference in the cup for me.
Thanks! It’s helpful to know about different experiences.
Interesting results! If you do further test, try slow feeding, I could imagine this could potentially have an interesting effect too. I think I'll have to do some of my own testing when my 078 arrives...
Slow feeding with the 078S results in coarser grinds. With extreme slow feeding, 1-2 beans per second, the burrs have to be almost touching each other to get anything usable. Good for turbo shots though.
@@UnderstandingCoffee Ah okay, interesting, not my realm though, I'm only into filter. :)
@@InVacuoMight be worth trying for filter as you will get less fines. Certainly sprovers do benefit from slow feeding.
@@UnderstandingCoffee Will definitely have a play when the 078 arrives (still gotta wait another month 😭)
Great video. Thanks for sharing your experience with that grinder and mentioning that the Gange results may be limited to his EG1. Which I believe he mentioned as well but Lance seems to imply it works the same in every grinder which isnt the case.
It is odd this one is backwards from most grinders. Lower rpm generally gives you less fines or coarser grinds for other grinders.
I wonder if the declumper or wiper arms are not sufficiently allowing the coffee to exit the grind chamber efficiently leading to more regrinding where at higher rpm the grinds are pushed out more easily.
Another thing to experiment with would be to maybe use the knocker as its grinding at lower rpm to assist to exiting of coffee maybe.
I have 078s coming soon hopefully.
Thanks! I think the vertical orientation of the burr changes things. A possible explanation is that at lower rpm, the beans back up in the auger resulting in regrinding.
Are you doing some bean flushes between changing grind sizes?
I have 064s, but it seems that the shot times differ if I make a shot on e.g. 1.5 going from 1.8 (faster) and 1.5 going from 1.1 (slower). The retention is really small, but it still bothers me, not sure what's the reason, didn't make any back to back tests but I have such feeling.
No, flushing isn’t required as retention is almost zero. How much coffee have you ground so far? The grinds clump a lot initially which is probably why you get inconsistent extractions. 60-90 seconds of WDT in the container and puck raking helps a lot with consistency of extraction. As the grinder is seasoned, you won’t need as much WDT. I’ve probably ground about 5-6 kg and 20 seconds of WDT is enough.
@@UnderstandingCoffee maybe that's it, I've ground maybe around 2-3 kilos and use quite long WDT. Also that's not a thing I'm 100% sure of, but I have a feeling it's happening, but good to know it's fine for you.
Interesting video. Have only just started using the smaller 064S, and have left the speed at the highest RPM for my medium roast. I wonder if your conclusions apply to the 064S and espresso brewing? All the fun is in adjusting the many variables involved, and near unpredictability.
Can’t say for sure but the burr geometry is the same. So I would expect the 064S to behave similarly. The only way to find out is to experiment. Let me know what you find!
I'm trying to understand the conclusions here (medium roast). It seems for espresso, 1100 is safer might be ideal compromise, since it will be easier to dial in. Should I conclude for pourover, 1400 would be best?
I haven’t tried this experiment for pour over. But yes, you can extrapolate the findings. I have tried sprovers by grinding at 1400 rpm and slow feeding (2-3 beans/sec) and it works really well. Hope this answers your question.
I have the same experience with the Timemore 078s :)
With light roast i have the best clarity at 1400rpm. At 1000rpm more body and a little Bit balanced
Absolutely. About 1000 rpm seems to be great for everything. Probably as the amount of fines is just right… who knows! Only way to find out is with a particle size analyser.
Great video, I've experienced the same as you described, it's nice to see some good data to understand it.
One question, what's your 0 set up at? I had to move the pin 3 spots to the left from factory 0 to find burr chirp at 0.4.
And what coffee and grind size did you use for filter?
Thanks! The burr chirp is about 4 notches away from zero. I moved the pin 2 spots to the left. the coffee for the filter was a medium roast Columbia Antioquia. The particle distribution was merely to demonstrate that rpm has an effect even in the filter range. I did not brew with it. It was ground at 14.
why is the sound so soft? I had to crank up speakers on full on my mbp 2022
Thanks for your feedback. Probably because i don’t have a professional setup. The video has been recorded on my iPhone. I’ve only recently started this channel and still learning!
@UnderstandingCoffee no issues with audio watching on my samsung galaxy phone.
@@djc2609thanks for letting me know 😊
No issues here
I am curious, was your grinder already "seasoned" before doing these experiments?
It had about 3 kg through it I think. After the first 500 gm, the coffee was pretty good. Now after about 6-7 kg, it’s excellent. I think largely this is because of experience rather than seasoning.
@@UnderstandingCoffee I imagine so. Thanks for the answer. When you pointed out, that it was hard to get good light roast shots at 1400 rpm, I thought to myself, maybe this is related to why many people say that the machine needs 7kg seasoning and others say they had no issues. In stock settings, it seems to be set to 1400 rpm (it was in my case). I don't mean to be rude, but I wonder if those people tried to use lower rpms first, or stayed at the 1400 rpm at all times.
I grind at 800 on my 078s as it gives me the best/widest range for espresso on the dial.
Of course tastes are individual and it’s great to hear different experiences. For me , the best balance between clarity and body is at about 1100.
@@UnderstandingCoffee I’ll give 1100 a try, to be honest the reason why I also started at 800 is because some claimed it produced the least amount of fines which seemed desirable. I’m surprised that 1100 is more clear.
@@DigitalicaEG Please let me know what you think of extractions at 1100. I was surprised too! One suggested explanation is that the coffee is being ground so fast at 1400 rpm that there’s little time for the beans to back up in the auger which means they aren’t smashing into each other. One experiment I’d suggest you try is to feed 1-2 beans at a time. The difference in extraction times is huge as there are almost no fines when feeding slowly. Great for turbo shots but you can get anything else! So the mechanism of low fines at high rpm could be related.. 1100 rom seems to give the best balance of fines
@@UnderstandingCoffee interesting! My current theory is that at higher RPMs due to the higher centrifugal forces the coffee beans gets expelled to the edges of the burrs and eventually to the outside to escape faster as soon as they are small enough to pass through so they don’t spend a lot of time between the burrs getting ground down even further. It’s a shame though that it really gets much harder to dial in.
@@DigitalicaEG Quite possible that this is the mechanism. It is not surprising that it gets difficult to dial as there is little puck integrity with low fines. I guess it is similar to trying to use brew burrs such as the SSP Unimodal V1 for espresso. It just does not work.