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Why I Never Became Eastern
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- Опубликовано: 6 апр 2018
- After I became convinced by the historic claims of Christianity concerning the person of Jesus, I started looking for a church to call my own and as I did, I quickly became confused by the disorienting variety of teachings and practices among different denominations and this forced me to confront questions about the divisions that exist within Christianity.
I started studying Church history and I quickly narrowed my focus to the division between Catholicism and Protestantism. Eastern Orthodoxy didn’t, at that time, register as a contender for one very simple reason.
I’m an English speaking white dude in a British commonwealth country.
There is a universality to Catholicism that doesn’t exist in the Eastern Orthodox churches. For me to become Eastern Orthodox, I’d have to join a Church with a very specifically ethnic or national identity.
When people ask me why I’m not Eastern Orthodox, I’m tempted to get into a theological throw down, but the easiest way to answer that is by pointing out that I’m not Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, or any other ethnicity that the Eastern churches in the city I live in serve.
A point of contention at all the major divisions in Christianity has been the focus on authority. So, the East West split focused on the authority of the Pope vs. other bishops and patriarchs. The protestant reformation was about the authority of the Church and the Pope vs. the exclusive authority of scripture, and the English reformation was about the authority of the Pope vs. the authority of the King. So, as you might guess, authority, how it’s defined, and where it resides, seems like a pretty essential component of the faith.
So in the case of the East West schism, there were a number of controversies that they were stuck on, but arguably, the most significant one was the disagreement over the authority of the bishop of Rome vs. that of the other patriarchs and bishops. Rome insisted that the bishop of Rome had a unique and universal authority over the entire Church, without which there would be no universal Church, as inherited from the authority of Peter. The Eastern Orthodox side was arguing that the bishop of Rome was a first among equals but only in an honorific way which meant that he had the same authority as the other patriarchs. So that was their position going into the controversy. OK, how true were they to their positions after the controversy had led to an actual division and schism? Well, the West still maintained the conviction that the bishop of Rome had a universal authority over the whole Church. But the East, did not continue to treat the Bishop of Rome as a first among equals. In fact, they excommunicated him which seems like a clear violation of their own claim that no autocephalous patriarch has authority over another. The honor of first among equals has since been designated to the Patriarch of Constantinople.
Jesus wanted his followers to be one as a sign of his divinity to the world. Between East and West, from what little I know of it’s history, I only have ever seen major attempts from the West to realize that unity. Through the councils of Lyon and Florence, the East’s bishops conceded Rome’s position on Papal Supremacy, the Filioque, and purgatory, but the unity that was struck fell apart when the Eastern delegates went home and succumbed to political pressure there.
Rome has always been the initiator of ecumenical dialogue, from what I’ve seen. It was at the first Vatican Council that the mutual excommunications of 1054 were lifted. It was the second Vatican council that made ecumenism a high priority for the Church moving forward which paved the way for the joint theological commission of East and West.
It was Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI who recited the Nicene Creed with Eastern patriarchs without the filioque. It was the bishop of Rome who first visited the East. It wasn’t until 1995 when the Patriarch of Constantinople finally visited Rome.
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Twitter: / briankeepsworth
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Thanks for all the comments. Many people have misunderstood the main arguments that I've offered in this video, so I've provided a follow up video with some clarification. Please watch that before commenting. ruclips.net/video/gyzsx-kiUGU/видео.html
Dear Brian, I appreciate you doing another elaborative video, but in all honesty, whatever you try to say people will hear what they want to hear not what is intended. As a former Orthodox, now Catholic, I have been dealing with these reactions for years, some of them almost hysterical, by literally completely reconstructing my words to fit their intention for the purpose of discrediting me and my spiritual choice. What lays behind it is the history of antagonism and many Orthodox in their comments here show that, plain and simply. Just look at the responses to my comment from 5 days ago. Regardless of how respectfully you try to present your point of view, they will find they way to discredit it, always stating the supposed historical, philosophical and theological "inaccuracies". Fine, if that's what they think, nobody here is forcing anyone to be one thing or the other (at least not on the Catholic side). You'll see, they will start pointing at other "inaccuracies" in your second video, or even worse, start accusing you of "insensitivities" to this or that. The first video was great, the second, too. From my point of view, I feel blessed to have access to your channel as it reflects my spirituality and identity. You do it in a respectful and inclusive manner to those who do not share your beliefs. Whether some of your critics here who "misunderstood" you do the same, people can judge by reading the comments. Take care!
I don't accept woman priest.
Alex and Brian, I am an Orthodox Christian, a convert from pentecostalism, and I am sorry you have had this experience. I know what you say is true and it is very sad. I fully respect these kinds of spiritual journeys and I think that the challenges you present to Orthodoxy are legitimate and need to be answered honestly not swept under the rug with counter attacks. Like you said, "Regardless of how respectfully you try to present your point of view, they will find they way to discredit it, always stating the supposed historical, philosophical and theological "inaccuracies". " Yes we need to have some difficult conversations in the next few centuries. But I regret this kind of triumphical blame shifting! What Brian has said is true and the Orthodox need to seriously address these problems rather than attack the messenger for being wrong in principle because he is not already one of us.
As for myself, I don't see the differences between classic Catholicism and classic Orthodoxy as ultimately irreconcilable. Where most seem to see only ruptures, I see synchronicities. However, I must say, that I cannot presently convert, together with my family, to a "family of the catholic churches" that is currently suffused with neo-catholic church of nice, post-modern, pro-homosexual, globalist, pro-contraception, political corruption, and liturgical chaos (Mass of Paul VI). In fact the attempt to canonize Paul VI confirms that the vatican is corrupt, at least to me. I REALIZE THAT TRUE CATHOLICISM IS SAFE FROM THIS. And that these are troubles the Church is going through, but will not ultimately destroy her. And I realize that Orthodoxy has it's own problems. I RESPECT YOUR WILLINGNESS TO STAY AND FIGHT. And I look forward to the day that true Catholicism will emerge at the end of this sad civil war. Then and only then will a reunion be possible.
In the Book of Revelations, I believe Catholic church is the one with Jezebell in it. And you are making arguments. Wrong doings. Plain and simple. You are saying that this is why you chose - but you are spreading your views that are not always correct and in that way manipulating others. Why did you really make this video is the real question? Did you even consider that it will have impact on someone? Why didn't you say that you are maybe wrong on all of these things?
ruclips.net/video/Cp6xH-3QTVQ/видео.html
There is no ethnic requirement to be a member of the Orthodox Church.
yes but he is right about the orthodox churches being national churches they argue with each other im from the balkans i know
Of course not. However, you're sheltered (and lucky) if you haven't ever experienced being the 'wrong' ethnicity Orthodox among a group of ethnic gatekeepers. I can 100% see why he wouldn't bother after his experience.
michelledalenaa
That’s what was my last hang up with becoming Orthodox after losing my faith in Papal Infallibility. Then I discovered the Western Orthodox, or what Roman Catholics OUGHT to be. The Rites are a Confederated brotherhood with valid Ecumenical Councils being the ultimate authority. This also appeal to my Minarchist values. Corruption can’t super concentrate in any one area. I can visit my siblings houses but the Western Rite is my home.
But Catholics are heretics like Protestants too. The holy sephulcure only lights for an orthodox patriarch not for any leader of any other Christian denomination and in fact it only lights for a Greek and no one else. God wants to show the rest that Orthodox is the purest available and we must follow the ancient paths. GREEK orthodox does not stop you from becoming orthodox. It invites you to participate.
Neilos Hodges
They claim scripture is not important to understand but they wanna talk about heresies when they don’t even study scripture.
As a person who travels a lot for work, I've been to several orthodox churches, Greek, Russian, Ukrainian, and Serbian. Not once have I had a negative experience from them. I have always felt welcomed there.
But that doesent fit in his agenda?
Curious if you are a blonde or a redhead, though?
@@AFreckledAngel actually I'm redish blonde
@@Bb-pw1zi that's a shame, what was your experience?
@@robertgroover3316 that’s why bro. I think Greeks no, but if I try going to the Russian orthodox churches around here I might stick out like a sore thumb.
I'm Arab and Orthodox.
So am i!!!
Love From Serbia Bro!
@ميشال خوري 😂
@Slavic Melody bro middle eastern christians should not called as arabs , one of reasons is we cannot belong a community that murdered us
Greek Levantine (rûm) and Greek Melkite Catholic here
We do not discover God through a certain way of thinking, but through a certain way of life. This is Orthodoxy, a way of life.
“SPQR”
The Catholic Orthodoxy yes.
@@yusukesmokes2398 Orthodox are polytheist heretics who do yoga to experience "God"
@@HIMYMTR no they don’t can you explain why you’re so rude and what you mean yoga?
@@yusukesmokes2398 Look into hesychasm, they gaze at their navel all day and do breathing techniques to experience God's "uncreated energies" This is hinduism not Christianity.
and no i am not being rude, the Catholic church in its infallible capacity always recognized eastern schismatics as heretics,
I am so sorry to see such division, between the two churches in the comments. As long as we fight amongst ourselves, satan is winning. Let’s pray again so that our reunion may see the light.
@Al Furqon Islam appeared in 7th of century, from Christian belief
@Al Furqon There is actual evidence that the Quran has been changed many times over. And those who even discuss it get death threats. Islam is not open about anything. Deception is even explicitly permitted in the tradition if done in Islam's favour. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@1985LISS You should be. I am a catholic, I respect orthodoxy, it's theology and spiritual practices. As someone who finished masters degree in theology I can at least tell you that we never had any lectures agains orthodoxy.
I wouldn't go around converting orthodox christians nor do I expect us ro suddenly become one. But I would like to see the fighting stop. The world hates Christ, we both profess our love for Christ, for Trinity. Each and every time we hurl insults against each other, we make the enemies of Christ stronger.
@@1985LISS And for the persecutions from the west, please keep in mind tgat crusaders attacked and sacked catholic cities as well...
When you learn of a faith. Study the history first. Down the line God shall provide the truth in your heart and go by the faithful not the leaders because even leaders become corrupt. You won’t go to hell because your not orthodox but orthodox is a more narrow path to Jesus so it being strict as it has preserved the 2000 yrs of tradition it has kept itself as it always was so it just makes you stronger to fight evil!!!
Orthodox Christianity is for everyone. Not just Russians or Greeks. It doesn’t have to be about ethnicity
Walter Clements amen, @Brian holdsworth you got a bad ethnic parish, populated by people who don’t really understand their faith. Thankfully these are becoming less common, our Orthodox Church has multiple ethnicities all coming together.
He didnt say that.
True
I attend a Russian Orthodox church and there is no Russian anywhere in my genes and the people in this parish could not be nicer to my family and I.
Sure, in theory, but in practice they are all ethnically monolithic churches.
I’m Romanian and orthodox and I am terribly sorry for what you went through with these ignorant parishoners. For this reason I go to an English-speaking Orthodox Church in London where’s there people of all nationalities and races. Praise the lord.
I think the Ukrainian church he visited might have been schismatic. Because the only canonical church in Ukraine is the UOC under Metropolitan Onuphry and they do not have many churches under their authority outside of Ukraine.
Excellent point@@mikeiannucci7931
It isn't always available everywhere, in some areas only very ethnic churches are available for everyone and you will have to endure sticking out as a sore thumb if you convert to Orthodoxy.
Keep in mind that Orthodoxy is still relatively new to the West and has been brought by Eastern European immigrants. Catholic Churches used to be more nationally based as well; in the US you had churches with congregations that were a majority demographic for many years - German, Italian, French etc and over time they mixed together. I think a similar thing will eventually happen to Orthodox churches. That be said Orthodoxy is and always was meant to be decentralized, as compared to the Catholic centralized structure
There were ethnic neighborhoods and still are, but the Mass was in Latin in every church regardless of their ethnicity
@@Elemenohpea440 Orthodoxy has always operated in whatever the local language was. The first 1000 years of Christianity the church was set up in a decentralization fashion
Yes, that's how missionary work goes. Catholics and Protestants have churches across the globe, while Orthodox are ABYSMAL at spreading the good Word.
@@Elemenohpea440 yes so everyone could equally not understand what was going on
@@derkuchenmeister I’m Catholic, but this got an LOL out of me.
Orthodox Church is universal. I'm Indonesian, and for me Orthodox Church is not ethnically centered.
I am Romanian and i have seen this inclination of nationalism. I don't like it, we should be more modern but this things evolved after many many years of opression.. I will fight to change this mentality because we must all be one in Christ and not divided by stupid nations..
I agree that Churches need to be one, nationality is a construct but ethnicity is not, culture is not. There are different people of ethnic and culture and churches in some area need to have the understanding with those different ethnics, also we have different languages, churches need to adopt but not consumed by these cultures.
exactly!
Alrich Brata same for me
I agree, we should all be Orthodox and accept everyone. But both sides of this coin can be to blame. A Greek Orthodox Church that was started by Greeks has Greek traditions in it. Those who come to this type of Church should respect that the founders were Greek, the majority of Parishioners are Greek so they will be doing Greek things in the Church.
On the other hand, Greeks should not be angry that other nationalities want to come into the Church. Churches split because converts want the Ethnicity to end, or the Ethnics want to do what they've always done. So if you enter a Russian, Antiochean or Greek Church, Accept the ethnicity. They are not pretending that it's Biblical, it's just how they've always done it. Orthodoxy is not about being "Modern" and Change is exactly what created 40,000 new denominations... So be careful about the Change that you're looking for. You can't enter someone's home and fight to remodel it. Liturgy is the important part and ethnicity really doesn't interfere with liturgy too much these days. Most Churches are half English and Half Greek, or Russian etc. So Liturgy is why we are in Church. If you are angry at anything else and you leave because of Ethnicity, then you aren't in Church for the right reason. You don't have to get alone with people during coffee hour.
You're wrong on this one. You don't have to be Russian or Greek or any other specific cultural background to be an Orthodox Christian, I'm an English speaking, American born, mostly British by heritage, person, and yet I have never felt out of place in my parish because of that fact. The faith is universal, yes there is a cultural aspect to Orthodoxy perhaps to a greater extent than Catholicism. In the Orthodox church, not unlike in Catholicism you have regional bishops who take care of all parishioners within a certain country or region, AND the areas where that community moves and evangelizes. So it's not a matter of the Patriarch being universal, it's that the parish we are worshipping in and the community we are apart of was established by people who were under the authority of that patriarchate when they came over. Now, it could certainly be argued that it is time for Orthodox populations in certain western countries where the Church has a foothold, to establish their own diocese and I would be among the first to agree with that argument.
The excommunication of the Bishop of Rome is more complex that you've made it sound, he was excommunicated because he believed himself to have the power to enforce changes in certain matters of faith and practice for the whole church, when every single other time something like that was even up for discussion, a council was called, Pope Leo IX just went and did this to throw his weight around and test the new authority that he was claiming. He actually sent messengers with a papal bull excommunicating Patriarch Mikael I for not submitting to his authority and demanding that they followed the process of actually communicating with each other before these sorts of changes were made. Makael I undersrabibly took this to mean that the Bishop of Rome wasn't interested in talking or in resolving the conflict in a reasonable and Christ-Like way and sent those same messengers back to Rome with his own document of excommunication, in response to that.
As for your experience, that does sometimes happen, my church is Ukrainian as well and the response that I got was they were just as surprised, but in a good way like: "Oh my Gosh! New Person! She wants to Join us! Yay!" so what I get from hearing your experience is that, that parish was not welcoming, that was wrong, that was on them, please don't judge all Orthodox Christians or the attitudes of the church as a whole by people who act that way.
"You're wrong on this one" How do you argue someone's personal experience? Because he walked into a Ukrainian Orthodox church and it was awkward. You don't get to negate "This is what happened to me" as long as the story sounds reasonable. "he was excommunicated because he believed himself to have the power to enforce changes in certain matters of faith and practice for the whole church" Yes, because the Bishop of Rome believed himself to be the seat of Peter, which honestly isn't under dispute. Peter made hard decisions along the lines. The issue was that the Eastern Bishops didn't like the concept of someone really being in charge, rather than 1st among equals. "that was on them, please don't judge all Orthodox Christians or the attitudes of the church as a whole by people who act that way." A generically Orthodox church will say "Yay!". A Greek Orthodox Church with a Russian (or anyone else) on their door will quite logically point them to the church down the street. If you've ever watched "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", one thing that falls out is the way they turn the boyfriend into a Greek man is to baptize him the Greek Orthodox church. It's quite logical.
Again, not always. It's not about the kind of parish, it's about the people within that Parish and their attitude towards converts. I would imagine that an OCA Parish (Orthodox Church of America) would be least likely to have that issue, but I wouldn't know because there isn't one in my city. The one I attend is Ukrainian like the one he went to and other than the surprise factor our two experiences couldn't have been further apart. I am sick and tired of this misconception that there are no Western converts, or that we aren't welcomed, it's not a universal truth.
"I am sick and tired of this misconception that there are no Western converts, or that we aren't welcomed, it's not a universal truth." I never that thought at all. In fact I knew you had Baptists, at the very least, incoming who wanted orthodoxy but couldn't stomach the idea of being Catholic. But...you will need to reconcile yourself to the idea that when Orthodox Churches have modifier in front of them, like "Greek" or "Russian" it will be off putting to anyone who is not Greek, Russian, or whatever. It's the way it is. Meanwhile, I wish I could convince people that Catholics aren't all about dopey communists Priests who molest children in their off days, endless Rosary beads, or have seemingly every other evangelical call me a pagan or not Christian while not noticing you or the Anglicans or the Lutherans. But it is what it is. We all have our crosses to bear.
There's no reason for it to be off putting, at all.
Hmm... if you started a club called "The Daughters of the Revolution", do you wonder why men don't want to join? Or women who can't trace their lineage back that far? I think it's a fair cop.
Am a Kenyan and all my life an orthodox... Orthodox is universal
What is Orthodox??? The only Universal Church which is publicly known and acknowledged is Catholic...Check the world records...Correct me but Orthodox is only found in some East European and its proximity...Apart from that Orthodox church does not exist...
@@gregorypilau3530 ...1000 years of existence prior to the Catholic split says otherwise
FightPeople you should just read more history about orthodoxy and also the Coptic church and how it has been the buffer for your Catholic church's survival from Islamic occupation. Just listen to yourself "yea well how big is your church? If it isn't big then it doesn't count"... is this what you're trying to imply? Between Ethiopia, Egypt, Romania, Russia, Greece.... Christians separate from you heretical power lust Catholic church which asserted itself as an empire over the world and led to the bastardization that is Protestantism of which it's founders genuinely consider your popes to be the literal antichrist because of their countless crism against humanity.... the Christians separate from this mess are MANY. Have you ever considered why your Catholic church is so big? Do you know anything of the genocides committed by it in the Americas 400 years ago? Or even the genocides it committed against the orthodox church during the crusades? Like seriously bro you have the internet... this information is just a click and 30 minute away.... don't be so ignorant please.
@FightPeople Yes, for instance there was one a few years ago.
Catholicism by definition is universal
I'm sorry you had a poor experience within the orthodox church. I'm an American who is German ethnically. I go to a Greek orthodox cathedral and I've never been so accepted in any atmosphere like I am in this one. Orthodoxy is for everyone
An American with German ethnicity and I am pondering about a religious change in the next year. Glad that you made your comment.
It wasn't about a poor experience in the Orthodox Church that made his decision smh
No it's not. Orthodox Christians hate me and always attack and insult me.
I'm of Mexican ancestry and I go to an Antiochian church, and I've felt accepted even when I visited Russian and Greek Orthodox churches
I'm a black American living in the American South who chose Orthodoxy over Catholicism. Yes, there are very ethnically oriented Orthodox parishes, but there is the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) that uses all English in its services. I attended an Antiochian parish that used all English. You can't make a decision based on a visit to one church. I know a monk in Scotland starting an Orthodox monastery there using English and read of a native Welsh Orthodox priest. There are many Orthodox parishes in Africa, and places like Guatemala. Don't judge a book by its cover. There's much more to Orthodox Christianity.
Da Bome
If it pushe you out of catholicism what did you become now?
Linda Tutcher
God Bless You!
Does OCA exist in Canada? I have to ask my friend who is an OCA priest
Catholics and Orthodox are brothers for life
I am a multi racial American and belong to the Orthodox Church. Our Patriarch NEOFIT is in Bulgaria. We are 90% converts with two families at St. Tikhon's seminary. We are not focused on Bulgarian anything. Only living the Christian life through the Orthodox Church.
Dude, the Eastern Orthodox didn't excommunicate the Pope. The Pope excommunicated the Orthodox and the Orthodox excommunicated the Pope back
Matheus Motta Vatican 2 is an apostate church which isn’t Catholic anyway it’s abundantly clear it’s the schismatic on , Francis is a heretic and thus not a valid Bishop of Rome
@@enlightenedsoy-basedneohum9118 You're dumb
You should say that the other patriarchs all together excommunicated him.
@@enlightenedsoy-basedneohum9118 so wrong..you sedaventacists are a pain in the Church!
So they excommunicated Pope
I definitely understand what you’re saying in regards to ethnicity in the Orthodox Church. I’m African American, what church would I be able to attend? I love how Universal the Catholic Church is. All are welcomed💖 Thanks for sharing🥰
I’ll never understand the hang-ups people have about national churches (that is, if they actually do any research into why the situation in the West is the way it is). Orthodoxy is the One True Faith, and every single Orthodox Church believes the exact same thing and worships in virtually the exact same way. The language is different in different countries because-surprise-they’re different countries! While the Catholics stuck to their Latin no matter where they went, leaving the masses to orally understand nothing that was being read or chanted in their services, Orthodox missionaries laboriously translated all the services, hymns and prayers into the native tongue of whatever culture they were ministering to. In fact, as an example, the Cyrillic script used to write almost all the languages of Eastern Europe was invented by two missionary saints, Cyril (after whom it’s named) and Methodius! Over time, as these local churches develop in their respective nations, they become big enough to necessitate local governance. So they become “national” churches. They’re all in communion with each other, of course, and believe the same things, of course; literally nothing changes. Things only get tricky when you fast-forward to modern-day immigration to Western countries, particularly in North America. It’s rather complicated, but essentially immigrants come from all over the world to the brand-new country of the USA, at a time when they’re all still adapting to using English as a lingua franca with other immigrants and using their native tongues within their own communities. Each community brings priests and bishops from their old countries and establish churches, because the Russian churches (which were in America before any other Orthodox were, as they were colonizing Alaska) don’t work too well for people who only speak Greek, or Serbian, or Arabic, etc. It’s a tragedy, indeed, that nowadays we in America will often have several bishops in the same city (which is against the canons, which mandate one bishop per city), but the concept of America and immigration to it was a new concept and nothing like anything else in history before it. We’re working on it, but it doesn’t change the history and tradition of the Church and the fact that Orthodoxy is the religion of the apostles, preserved faithfully and in full throughout the ages. I would suggest visiting your local OCA (Orthodox Church in America) parish for more information, and certainly before making any decisions about which church you’d like to join in the end. OCA is great if you want an English-speaking parish that is super welcoming to inquirers. It’s also the only native American Orthodox jurisdiction (rooted in the very first Russian missionary expeditions to Alaska and America in the 1700’s, even before the founding of the United States as a country). Any other Orthodox parish is fine, but that’s what I’d recommend. I’m a Canadian of Ethiopian descent and I’ve had no problems. I’ve found my OCA parish to be the most multicultural and welcoming church I’ve ever been in. I’m confident you’ll have the same experience. Now that’s universal.
God bless you on your journey, sister.
@Christus Rex
I understand that Orthodoxy is for everyone because Christianity is for everyone. And I know there are Orthodox people around the world. What I’m saying is there is no general Orthodox Church, for everyone regardless of ethnicity. And when it comes to ethnicities there is no African American Orthodox Church. If there is a general Orthodox Church or an African American Orthodox Church, please let me know🥰
@@nuzzi6620 Thanks for explaining all that to me!💖 I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having national churches & I can understand why but why isn’t there just a general Orthodox Church? If that’s something they’re working on that’s great!🙆🏽♀️ I just feel like if you’re not that ethnicity & walk into that Church they’re not going to be welcoming & make you feel like you don’t belong. Kinda like what Brian was saying about his experience. If it’s not like that I’m sorry for misunderstanding. I’ve always wanted to go to an Orthodox Church to at least visit.😢 I will look up OCA!🙏🏽💖 Thank you & God Bless you too.🥰🥰🥰
You could attend any you want.. My Greek Parish had a lot of African Americans, even Asians.
@@LovedbyJesus23 Why would there be an African American Orthodox Church? There's no need for that. We already have the Orthodox Church in America. Segregation based on race is just weird.
Thanks for making these videos. You put my thoughts into words and that makes them so much less confusing. I went to an Orthodox mass once. Maybe it wasn't as weird, because I went to a somehow touristic Church, in Yekaterinburg. Still, Russians weren't yet very used to foreigners, but it was more about me adapting to their rite and not them trying to accommodate for me. Because of my several trips, I have met other Eastern Orthodox people, and I respect them and feel close to some of them, but there's always the national barrier that I don't think will ever disappear, so even if I was convinced by their version of the religion, it's not really up to me to become one of them. You're right, the Catholic Church has really made a big effort to actually become a universal Church. Seriously, thank you for doing these videos. For me, it's not even like you're convincing me of anything, but you're helping me straighten up my own thoughts, ideas and beliefs, in your simple way of explaining things.
Let me ask you a question, if you go to a Catholic church in italy, will you expect the service to be in English, in Church Latin, or in whatever is your native language? Or in Italian? And how is that different from your experience in Yekatetinburg - and why then the Italian church with services in italian is more "universal" than the russian church with services in russian?
Hi, I’m an Australian of German ancestry but go to the local Greek Orthodox Church that being named, believe it or not, St Nicholas. I have always found the Greek people to be a warm and welcoming group and along with me there is a French family, an ex Canadian and his daughter, and older English/Australian. Of course many of the Greeks have married into Aussie families and Aussies have married into Greek just like in the film, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”. Thing is, if you get to know people they will get to know you and as Christians if you’re happy to pray with them they are happy to pray with you. Of course any community with a strong sense of culture and history is not going to give that up easily, nor should they but if “outsiders” show respect then they are treated as friends.
i am a swiss blond hair and I am getting baptised our day 27 before our Easter, they do russian and then english it is just beautiful
I would have to say that spending more time studying the crusades would enlighten your understanding of the decline of the Eastern Church in the Middle East. In addition, eastern Christendom served as a barrier to the onslaught of Islam for well over 1,000 years. Eastern Christians have suffered through the centuries as second class citizens under Islamic law. Even today the Ecumenical Patriarch is prohibited from maintaining a seminary in Istanbul (Constantinople).
I am also a Roman Catholic believer. I have met many people from Eastern Orthodox faith. Some are pretty great people and amazing friends (they are mostly of Greek, Serb, and Russian descent, you know how friendly they really are) and some (sadly from the same countrymen as myself) were overly zealous and sort of disliked me in an instant when they heard that I was (and still am) with Roman Catholic Church.
The thing is.... Doesn't matter what sort of faith one embraces, it is the person that matters..
I know I may not going to convert myself to Eastern Orthodoxy, but I still feel that every single Orthodox Christianity believers are my brothers and sisters too.
So, I'll say Hi to my brothers and sisters from Roman Catholic and the Orthodox churches.. And shall this day be a blessing for all of us.
I’m a British/German and have been Greek Orthodox my entire life and the church has never had a problem with my ethnicity, personal interested to see other people’s opinions
Serbian Ortodox here, you are our brother and welcome in any Serbian Ortodox church in the world. I guarantee you that. Your ethnicity, language, etc is not a problem. Like a said, you are our Ortodox brother!
I've been attending a Serbian Orthodox Church very friendly. Orthodox is for everyone.
@@ivkekosovo So true
Yes brother, it is for everyone.May God help in every way.
@Ante Srz Its easier to just say fairy tales and be arrogant than debate your point of view fairly, nationalistic Croats are the biggest truth escapers in the Balkans, you deny that you are OG genocidal people of the Balkans, you love democracy and liberalism, but when the cameras are off you are proud about genocide that you did, when the Nazis arrived in Cro you threw flowers on them
"The Ustashe regime systematically murdered approximately 300,000 to 500,000 Serbs out of whom up to 52,000 died at the Jasenovac concentration camp, according to current estimates." source Wikipedia I did not make this out, look it up
Lies are the best thing ever, they ultimately lead to truth, I don't know how can you live with yourself or you are too dumb to realize that lies are the essence of your national identity
@@ivkekosovo the serbian orthodox church had the idea of a greater serbia and guess they are chetniks too
Islam is the exact same so that's why it's so corrupt
I appreciate your comments, Brian. I converted from Lutheranism to Orthodoxy, but that was not without a brief stay in considering Roman Catholicism. I empathize with you on the issue of ethnicity.
I am sorry for your departure from the true Apostolic tradition.
@@dave1370 Why?
@@dave1370You’re a funny guy
Hi Brian. Bit like a message in a bottle; Four years on and I am watching these videos of yours for the first time. I am a cradle Catholic in the autumn of my life and am struggling with sin habitually. I have often with much intensity looked towards Eastern Orthodoxy as the magic bullet to solve or at least distract me from this struggle. I can find so much wrong in my local parishes and blame this for my lack of transformation in Christ. I have concluded that despite the many problems in the Catholic Church, it is still and will remain the hospital, where sick sinful creatures like me can find healing and Mercy leading to transformation (deification) . There is so much treasure here in the Catholic Church, that even if I was to live for a million years, I still would not be able to apprehend a fraction of it.
I believe that the time is fast approaching when the Church will be driven underground; then there will be no altar, no lovely adorned church buildings, very few priests. The Apostles never had any of this, so; I have a massive piece of wood stuck in my eye and I need to spend the rest of the time, God has given me, to try with His help to remove it. I would hazard a guess that there are a few here in the comments section that also are in need of the Master Carpenter to deal with some wood splinters (Catholic and Orthodox).
Like your videos, Brian; I find them a catalyst for self reflection.
John
You seem to misunderstand a lot abou the Orthodox Church
Please elaborate
anyone can be orthodox ..there are scores of Americans and English in England who are Greek orthodox..even some of the Mainsteam books on Greek Orthodoxy are written not by greeks or russians..like Timothy Ware who became orthodox. anyway Jesus told me Orthodox so that's what i became and it's a gorgeous way to be a Christian i have found
Christina I’m a American born kid who’s joining Greek Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is for everybody
@@patrickmartin8783 How come suicides and abortions are so prevalent in Orthodox countries?
terioze9 because there is a divide between the church and the government
I found this so helpful Brian! I was actually raised Catholic and then did the Catholic slide to Lutheran and then Baptist. I was gonna check out Eastern Orthodoxy but I just feel like the Catholic Church is home for me. I plan on getting into a local Parish here in SC since I moved. Again God Bless you and your family!
@sphynxbabe. I’m a recent SC transplant myself. Just joined a great Parish in the Hilton Head area. First time I’m back in the faith after 30 years away and I’m loving it. Jump in head first! Most churches have study groups that are really helpful. I attend a mens group that is fantastic. Best of luck and God Bless.
I am catholic in the Roman tradition and am deeply proud of it. I love the eastern catholic traditions as well. Importantly, I love Orthodoxy too. When life is tough, I find it important to look east and recognise what has always and everywhere been believed.
Your conclusion really got me thinking (and once again, I greatly appreciate your clear, solid reasoning). It's not the first time that I've noticed what you pointed out in that last bit, you just made me think about it in a way that is helpful. I've had internal difficulties arise when I begin to consider it, so I've shut down the thoughts so as to avoid the near occasion of sin. Really. It's so tempting to get cocky about it. But that's like the right hand thinking it's superior to the left. These are Apostolic Churches, with the Real Presence. The right regard is sorrow -- not despair, mind you, but recognition that things aren't the way Jesus prayed for them to be. I greatly appreciate the way you led a prayer without formalities, by pointing to the prayer Jesus prayed. The very words you used are a prayer, pointing to what we should be praying for and why.
Father in heaven, grant that Your Church may unite as one, that the whole world might know that You alone are God. I ask this in the Name of Jesus Christ, Your Son. Amen.
This is so wrong. Orthodoxy is for everyone, there are orthodox Chinese, Japanese, Indian Pakastani, Columbia etc...
George Papadopoulos;
So who has the keys to heaven.
Athens/Jerusalem/Moscow or Rome.
One office was given one main office.
In the US you look to the president.In Canada you look to the Prime Minister.In Britain you look to the Prime Minister.For heaven we look to the Papacy.
They are just stupid cities, piles of bricks, they don't have keys, bishops that uphold Orthodox Faith have the keys.
What about the office of Peter.
Now the House of David is like, you know, the House of Bourbon. It's a dynastic reference. The House of David is the Davidic kingdom, the Davidic dynasty. We know this because David has been dead for hundreds of years when this is happening in Isaiah 22, "I will give you the key of the House of David. He shall open and none shall shut, and he shall shut and none shall open.
He will become a throne of honor to his father's house." Look at all of the symbols of dynastic authority that are being given to this individual. First of all, an office. Second, a robe. Third, a throne and fourth, keys, the key of the House of David, these royal keys.This is in Rome the papacy.
Romans 1;7
7 To all that are at Rome, the beloved of God, called to be saints. Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Christ has the keys to heaven. We Orthodox look to Christ for heaven, not to this or that bishop.
Marius Filip;
Well Milan is the fashion capital of the world lol.
I also read Jesus's prayer for unity right before becoming catholic, and I felt Jesus speaking to me through it in reassurance of my decision. His heart really is in His one, holy, and apostolic church.
I agree that the Orthodox Church I attend used to be mostly middle eastern people, but that is no longer the case. People from all different backgrounds, from all around the world attend our church today in America. It’s beautiful!
3:50 in and I'm like "whoa, we live in the same place!!" Have you ever tried visiting the two OCA churches? Those are supposed to be multi-national, and apparently St.Herman of Alaska on the West End is just that. Of course, I haven't checked it out either, and I agree whole heartily with your thoughts on the ethnic situation on the Eastern side. Which Catholic church do you go to if you don't mind me asking?
Jesus's church is universal.
In complete agreement.
I am not religious, in the slightest, however Brian's arguments confuses me.
Why do you need to 'join' a church?
Why do you need to seek the church that Jesus started, when even the bible says he didn't, it was his apostles. From my understanding Jesus didn't even really believe he was creating a religion, let alone where one should be located.
Why isn't any church that teaches Jesus, and the bible good enough, I understand that there are some types of 'culty' churches and denominations, and some practices you may not want to follow, but if you have a need to attend a church, they are all churches, as long as you can understand the language.
Imagine the travesty of finding 'your' church, and having to learn a new language to participate. Oh hang on, you need to learn a language (all sorts of bespoke terminology) and follow new customs even if it is taught in your native tongue.
The reason the Abrahamic religions triumphed over pagan religions, is that they where not tied to place. I'm pretty sure the Jews started this revelation during the Babylonian exile, but at the moment I can't seem to confirm it, and geographical ties should not be how you define what you follow. Early Christians in Rome, prior to Constantine's conversion prayed in their homes.
So whilst he may, or may not make a good argument, it starts on shaky foundations, even when you believe in the religious aspects of his choices.
@@Youchubeswindon
Because Jesus stablished a church and he mentioned it on Mathew 16:18... that church is his body and evangelized the world throughout the centuries. One Holy Catholic and apostolic church. That same church put the Bible together. all others were stablished by men much later....
@@Youchubeswindon
Early Christians congregated at homes and caves to celebrate the sacrament of the Eucharist (because they were persecuted). They broke the bread daily....
I appreciate your time and effort to create such a well made video that explained your experience. I am sorry to hear about your negative experience with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, I would recommend that you do not let that one Church become your view of Orthodoxy as a whole. I will also say that this is a big reason why the Antiochian Orthodox Western Write is growing very quickly in the Americas. Praying for you brother!
I returned back home to Orthodoxy from going to the born agains (false Christians) and thank God back to Orthodoxy 🙏💒✝️ Here are the major differences between Orthodox and catholics and ofcourse protestants
ruclips.net/video/hZNtaFzIqJc/видео.html
@@ChristianOrthodoxMiracles
Both Eastern and Oriental orthodoxy is hersey!
@@SuleimanTheMagnificent71618 wrong
@@eliasm5784 yes
@@SuleimanTheMagnificent71618 No, you're not making sense
I have to appreciate that you present your views and faith in a human context, as one side of a multifaceted discussion.
So you won’t submit to a Greek patriarch but you will to an Italian one?
Greeks and Aramaic were the first languages of the bible. When Jesus saw the Greeks coming towards him he uttered " now came the time my name will be glorified". That is a very serious statement. God loved the GREEKS so we are the first to recieve the holy light and spread it to the rest of the Orthodox world. May God shine his light on new comers. God wants to see all his people in one faith, the true ancient paths and the Orthodox did preserve this for 2000 years even with the persecution by barbarians and fellow Christians . The Crusades
As peter was living in Rome, obviously, he was the bishop there. Jesus gave peter the keys. Then, all roman bishops are successors of peter.
All other bishops of places which peter founded cannot be his successors as peter left bishops there at the time.
Rafael Costa wrong
I imagine the near east would be much better place if only the muslims didn't wipe out the old greek colonies there.
@@RafaelCosta-fy7tb St. Peter was also bishop of Antioch, a very major jurisdiction in early Christianity; even St. Paul was sent out as a missionary from Antioch.
So why don't Catholics make the same claim about Antioch that they do about Rome?
I’m a white guy that has been going to Antiochian Orthodox Church for a month, there are people of Middle Eastern and Greek descent, but also white guys that converted. So I can’t say that I agree with you, the people at the church are very nice and welcoming. I’m not saying I’m gonna convert but I am at least going to read up more on the church to make an informed decision. I love the Divine Liturgy, such a beautiful service, and have attended a Paraklesis service once, I know some of the doctrine but not enough yet. That will change over the next month or two.
Any updates on your faith journey? Just curious to know
Out of entire sympathy, I would highly suggest you watch the videos of Father Josiah Trenham of St. Andrews Orthodox Church in Riverside, California. There are many videos by Father Trenham of St. Andrews of Riverside, California. I visited the church on many occasions, and have only appreciation for the work in promoting the Gospel Christ at St. Andrews in Riverside, California. They have refrained from modernization and all that afflicts the Roman Catholic Church of today.
I highly recommend you watch the videos about St. Andrews in Riverside, California. I truly feel you will have a new appreciation of Orthodox Churches.
Local to me, the Eastern Orthodox Churches work together and hold service as one church in times of renovation, natural disaster, etc. from what I’ve gathered, the separation of ethnic origins in Eastern Orthodoxy is to keep a sense of ethnic culture and tradition as well as Eastern Orthodoxy tradition. I think your experience of feeling awkward in that Ukrainian church is unique and uncommon.
I've definitely felt a bit "other" in a Ukrainian Orthodox church, while I've felt very welcome in a Ukrainian Greek Catholic church. That said, I don't have nearly a large enough sample size to draw real conclusions.
Any church that dubs itself "Ukrainian" in the west is schismatics and/or heretics. This is because the only legitimate Ukrainian Orthodox Church is under the omophore of the Moscow Patriarch, and outside of the Ukraine its faithful worship in the churches of ROC MP. My local church in London certainly has lots of Ukrainians in it (also Georgians, Romanians, Bulgarians and "native English").
Thank you for your boldness at the end, very interesting and beautifully put arguments
My priest is a black man from Alabama and a convert to Orthodoxy. By your reasoning he should be a minister in some AME holiness church. I'm glad he wouldn't agree with you.
Congratulations! You're the first to bring insult and American politics into this discussion! Trump much?
As a black woman from New York and a former convert to Orthodoxy only because of my previous Anti-catholic bias, I would say that this man should probably do more research on exactly what the Orthodox and Catholics say and look at the history from both sides unbiased. The Catholic Church is the only Church that has representation from all of the ancient churches both east and west. NO OTHER CHURCH CAN SAY THAT!
Robert Kyril Jordan ew
tim spangler wrong, GOD gave the bishops authority, protestanism is a continuous rebellion against the church
tim spangler faith alone is not in the bible, you're the son of luther
I became an Eastern Orthodox Christian b 4 Pascha this year.
And what does it mean that you became an E. Orthodox Christian?
elisabeth dakak It means she was baptized and chrismated like every other Eastern Orthodox.
Or maybe only chrismated. As long as you have been baptised previously in the name of the Holy Trinity then that’s fine (as far as I was told). If you haven’t been baptised in the name of the Trinity before then it’s the full works (like I had).
Είδωμεν το Φως το Αληθινών !
Me too! God bless you
11:38
The Battle of Lepanto is my favourite pro Mama Maria's intercession story❤
Your videos are so clean and aesthetic and I can't tell you how much I appreciate seeing that.
God bless you and your family. My prayers are with you. Peace to you
Im from Nafpaktos Greece (Lepanto)
@@georgekakaboukis6961
You're so lucky!
He is dead wrong- the East hasn't changed its position on the authority of the Bishop of Rome. A primacy of honor, first among equals. That is what Orthodoxy still believes. Whereas it is ROME that has changed, it has expanded the role of the Pope way beyond where it was before the schism. This guy is really off-base.
I agree, but you still must respect him, he's a brother.
Please ellaborate, if you will, sir?
joseph conder ... could you please further explain for those of us who would like to hear your take on this ?
Well, simply the Orthodox still believe the Bishop of Rome's rightful place is as first among equals. Read You Are Peter by Olivier Clement.
Yes, I respect him.
I’m a covert to orthodoxy from catholic. Bless Orthodox Church ☦️
It depends on why you converted. There are good and bad reasons. If the reason is "I had bad experience with a Catholic and I hate the Pope", that's a bad reason. You missed the point of what Christ is trying to say about your neighbor and yourself. That you'll bless the Orthodox Church, but not all Christians, is a bad sign.
I don't like the catholic church because of a few of a few heresies, mainly Papal supremacy witch can be easily be countered by a few example and the immaculate conception.
well it means you lack of history of the early christianity
Sorry man but unless you are a preist you cannot give blessings but I'm with you 💯
Greetings from Orthodox russians, my dear brother!
They basically didn't know why you were asking to participate while it's always open for everyone and that's why you gave up on orthodoxy because you didn't know whether or not to go in?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Im Greek Orthodox. I really appreciate you sharing your journey.
Strong orthodoxy în România! Greatings to all orthodox people!
Greetings to you, I am not Russian but I love our church
Is orthodoxy still strong there?
yes
@@lorraine5800 About 80% of the people in Romania are Christian Orthodox.
@@lorraine5800 Same here in Serbia
I'm assuming with your extensive research you became aware that there are Ukrainian, Coptic, Ruthenian and other eastern churches that are in communion with Rome. Your vids are great. Keep up the good work 🙂.
I'm an inquirer into orthodoxy. In the parish I visit weekly, this has never been a problem. It's a Greek parish, and there's a number of Greek people there, as well as people of Greek descent, but they're around half of the regulars there. I have never felt isolated or looked weird at for not being Greek. In fact, the first person to introduce me there was a Bulgarian woman, and I am being instructed by a local man (not of Greek origin or descent).
However, ethocentrism *is* a problem in the orthodox church. I haven't had a problem with it, but this is true enough for the patriarchs themselves to recognize it and emphasize that ethocentrism is a heresy (or a sin, I'm not sure which of the two, and how big of a difference there is between them).
They *do* want more people in the church, and they don't want to remain so localized. However, their way of evangelizing is through lifestyle and example. They don't believe in Jesuit practices. This has its pros and cons.
I've been Orthodox for 6 months and I think that evangelism is the biggest problem. Also the fact that I have to constantly check and see if I'm in communion with a church before I attend is a problem.
This is what i saw and felt "dominationalism" i felt the same vibe with a sense that i felt like an outsider and alienated me was almost i had to become mideastern first becore rea;lly accepted kind of like in the beginng the Judeisers insisted you had to be cirumcised become a Jew before you were baptised and entered in full communion wuith the church'.
I was face to face with that... believe me im nod spring chicken and Catholic.Me going it was not done lightly. i justed didnt wake up Sunday and decide to go.
ruclips.net/video/wVwq5NEnot/видео.html 8ODknot
I've never had a positive experience with the Orthodox. Very standoff and enclosed people. Never understood it.
Same here, I was an inquirer as well a while back. The individual church really does make or break the experience with Orthodoxy. An out of state friend of mine had a ROCOR church that was very open to him, despite him being very much an Irishman. However my churches have more or less heavily leaned into their ethnicities that I would feel left out of the loop, not just due to closed communion mind you. I have other issues with Orthodoxy but this post *really* spoke to me since I really don't want to come off as ignorant when it comes to something as serious as converting to a faith and I usually do a lot of research before I actually step foot into a church.
I appreciate your video, Brian! I have long wondered why people choose one over another. May the Lord continue to bless you, and all of us, though your gracious and informative video teaching.
Sometimes I think that both Catholics and Orthodox are cultural developments. There was a geographical distance between the West and the East. And in the West, Rome was the only big Christian center, while in the East, there were several. And these facts gave birth to the westerners love for the Pope and the easterners love for councils and stuff like that. Sometimes I think that if there were another big Christian community and patriarch in West, maybe things might have been different: the Bishop of Rome far less powerful and no schism. But what do I know :))
Yeah, I have had similar thoughts about this. Prior to the miaphysite schisms of the Eastern church, each patriarchate had its own liturgies as well. The reforms made by St Gregory the Great were only applied to Western Christianity, not Eastern, because there is a distinction between local synods of bishops and ecumenical councils. Even in the council of Trent, the new Tridentine mass was only to replace all forms of the mass that were younger than 200 years old. It was meant to be the universal (catholic) mass, but was on equal footing as the old liturgies. All the bishops of the West saw the authority of the Pope in Rome because that was the only seat of authority in the West, whereas the other patriarchates had been there since the dawn of Christianity, and mentioned at the council of Nicaea. The jurisdictions of the patriarchs of the East also changed a lot of times, the see of Antioch lost some northern bishophorics to Constantinople and some southern to the see of Jerusalem in the 5th and 6th centuries. To the West, their perspective is all through how they become ordained bishops by the pope, then cardinals, then elect the next one, but none of the bishops outside of that jurisdiction have that influence. The bishops of the see of Antioch elect the Antiochian patriarch, the bishops of the see of Alexandria elect the Alexandrian pope and so forth.
Also ruling from the pope in Rome is very separated from the other sees. It had only the barbarian threats of the north in mind when defining new tradition, which wasn't always compatible with the East. The same issue sprung up in the 16th century when Sweden broke off from the Roman Catholic Church because it refused to understand the political climate of the former Kalmar Union. The traditions of the West always differed from the other sees, such as the use of leavened or unleavened bread, and the use of Latin as opposed to Greek or Syriac, and with the increasing claims of authority and infallibility of the pope, tensions were bound to grow.
God bless the Orthodox Church.
It doesn't matter where you are from, a father, a bishop, even a simple believer will welcome you open-hearted. The reason orthodox churches hold their sermons in specific languages and not a common one like Latin is so it can be understood by the peoples of that country. That person turning you away was wrong, may God bless him back on the righteous path.
I congratulate you on this extremely interesting and perceptive piece.
Brian, you have stated so many things in your reasoning that is contradictory. One of the biggest fallacies in your thought process is the fact that you state that you did not want to become Orthodox because your ethic identity did not seem to fit into the identities of the parishes you entered, but then you attack the orthodox Church for preserving the ethnic identities of a people that were attacked and murdered by Catholics, Muslims, Communists and others because of their refusal to give up their faith and ethnicity. If you truly had the mindset that the church should transcend ethnicity, then you would have been blinded to those things yourself, but it appears that you may have been projecting what was already in your heart. Secondly, you stated that the Orthodox Patriarchates excommunicated the pope of Rome, but it was the pope of Rome who FIRST excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople simply because the Patriarch refused to accept a new and foreign idea into the Church, namely papal supremacy. When the tomb of the pope was delivered into the Hagia Sophia and laid on the alter by the bishop sent from Rome, one of our Orthodox bishops chased the Roman delegate for miles pleading with him to retract the excommunication and begging him to see the damage it would do to Christianity, and it was all to no avail, since the West had already decided that they were infallible! Thirdly, if you would have read the teachings of the holy fathers of the Church, and not simply used your fallen reasoning you would have seen that Christ's prayer about unity was answered immediately, since there has always been a unity in the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic ORTHODOX Church, and it has always existed. You should also remember that the Lord Jesus also taught about a falling away, and warned us to be aware of the wolves in sheeps clothing. Rome fell away from the true church, but its falling away did not impact the unity of the church, which is unified in Christ, and not in the pope. Please do yourself a big favor and start reading the early church fathers and all your fallen reasoning will be healed, corrected and illumined. St. Paul says that he would give up his very salvation for the sake of his fellow Hebrew people that had not yet received Jesus as the Messiah. Does that make him an ethnophile? Loving the ethnic identity that God made you is not a sin, but it is a sin if that ethnicity prevents you from joining His Holy Church!
Corinth Corinth Can you (or anyone) direct a new convert to the literature that defends your ideas here? I never knew there was so much history in the church.
Thank you corinth, very well said! !!
Agreed, I converted from RC to Orthodoxy 4 years ago to OCA Ukrainian/Russian Orthodox Church. Liturgy in all English. Did it take me out of my comfort zone to go there and speak with the Priest and consider Converting? U bet. I am now a server, Council member and Maintenance coordinator at my Parrish. I am not usually one to quote movie lines but "The Power of Christ Compels You!" I always urge people to Step out of their comfort zone and to come and see.
@@e.rutger6611 You can find this history in historian Warren Carroll's "The Building of Christendom. " www.amazon.com/Building-Christendom-324-1100-History-vol/dp/0931888247/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=history+of+Christendom&qid=1557200546&s=gateway&sr=8-3
Corinth Corinth Papal supremacy was never a novel idea. St. Augustine of Hippo wrote of Papal supremacy in the 4th century. Before that, St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote of it on his way to be martyred in Rome about 107 A.D. The Patriarch Michael was usurping papal power and was politically motivated because Constantinople was the seat of imperial power while Rome was just a backwater town in his time.
This is such a fascinating topic to me. I was so very drawn to the Orthodox tradition and it really was a huge part of my faith journey that ultimately led me to the Catholic Church. I had become a strong Catholic so obviously I took my faith seriously and the worst feeling is seeing heresy, political garbage, cliques, and abuse in the one environment I thought I could truly trust. I became convinced that because of Orthodox Christianity’s ancient practices and lack of central authority, it was truly the church for me. But my friends, long story short, months of praying and researching just led me to better understand Catholic doctrine and I realized I actually think the Catholics are right. At the end of the day, I am an even more devout Catholic than when I started and I got to learn about the other lung of traditional Christianity so it was a positive experience. I pray Catholics and Orthodox Christians can someday unite to fight evil and live as Jesus wanted. God bless all of you!
I am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. I have recently stumbled upon some fairly compelling Catholic apologetics, and thusly am struggling in certain areas. Would you mind explaining to me what caused you to make up your mind? Thank you, and may God bless you.
@@permanenceaesthetic6545 Praise be to Jesus Christ! I would be happy to briefly explain the bottom-line of my decision to be Catholic (RC) rather than to be Eastern Orthodox (EO). As an EO inquirer my expectation was that the EO were one unified church when to my shock there are actually three different divisions of Orthodoxy (Chalcedonian Orthodox; Oriental Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox; Assyrian Orthodox Church of the East). Each of these communions considers one another to be heretics/schismatics, despite many of their concerns being reconcilable provided there were a universal magisterium that could be appealed to in order to solve disputes. Many of the disputes are caused by ethno-linguistic misunderstandings and are unfortunately not so tied in with a concern for zealous piety. Moreover, the Chalcedonian Orthodox are de jure out of communion with each other and I found that Greeks would rebaptise me, but that some Russians would never venture to commit such sacrilege as to rebaptise me (that is a colossal problem. How do I know if I have been baptised in this situation?) The post-schism theology of the EO is not consistent with pre-schism Eastern theology and there are reasons for this, but it goes to show that the EO are not invincible from innovation and heresy. There are books in length to be written on that problem alone. Ultimately, the Orthodox only universally hold to whichever Ecumenical Councils their particular communion recognises to be truly ecumenical, all other doctrinal questions which apparently “condemn Latin heresy” are no more than post-schism opinions and polemics and exactly the same as the previous ethno-linguistic problems I’ve mentioned earlier.
I was running from the Catholic Church because of its problems, and EO seemed to have all the answers and be so wonderful until I entered into that world. For me, it didn’t take me very long to realise that there are the exact same problems in both camps and that to evaluate which communion to enter based on liturgical abuses per capita or something like that was not healthy and academically dishonest. I would highly recommend that you attend an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy if it is available to you. Find the Church with a Tradition which interests you in EO, all EO Churches have a Catholic parallel with its own history. At any rate, the Traditional Latin Mass is also beautiful and these days that is my normal liturgy. There is very much more that I have to say, but suffice it to say you should consider reaching out to/read/listen to the following people: Charles Coulombe (Tumblar House, Theology on Tap on RUclips) Vitalis Varaioun (On RUclips The Russian Catholic), Timothy Flanders (The Meaning of Catholic, YT and website), Vladimir Soloviev (book: Russia and the Universal Church), Erick Ybarra (Reason and Theology on YT, ErickYbarra.com), Gideon Lazar (He has published some articles online under his own name), Linden Predy (The Badger Dad on YT).
Sorry. Long response, but I hope you are at least in the right direction.
JMJ
@@intersabellos2482
What an eloquently insightful comment! Thank you immensely for your time and your words. I am in an incredibly tight spot theologically at the moment. I myself have never been baptized into and Christian faith, and fell into atheism in my latter teenage years. I always maintained a sort of pseudo-traditional outlook on life, but until recently never really knew where to glean that traditional aspect from.
It was Orthodoxy (as well as the Shroud of Turin) which brought me out of atheism. And it was after studying its theology, history, and miracles that left me absolutely confident in its truth. It seemed no matter how greatly I fought, Orthodoxy kept calling me home. Upon discovering the unbroken Miracle of the Holy Fire, it absolutely shook me to my core. It is simply undeniable.
Yet, within the past week, I have read honestly (and what I feel like is thoroughly) the Catholic position. I see where the Orthodox in certain areas absolutely misrepresent topics such as Absolute Divine Simplicity, the Filioque, unleavened bread for the Eucharist, Papal Primacy, etc. yet even with this, my experience with Orthodoxy is far too strong to simply discard it outright.
It is for these reasons that I desperately need your prayers and for our Lord to pull me out of this psychosis I seem to have found myself in. I worry that I am one of those too easily “swayed by various doctrines” which our beloved St. Paul warned us about in his epistles.
I will definitely look into those resources you mentioned. Thank you again, and may Christ be with you and your family.
@@permanenceaesthetic6545 I'm curious how this turned out. What is your current position?
@@intersabellos2482 I appreciate this educated/well thought out reply, thank you
Dang, Alberta boy! I have seen a dozen of your videos and could have sworn you were eastern seaboard! Edmonton! Our nation's capital! You are 2 hours away! I had no idea. Keep up the good work and God bless!
I've recently subscribed to your channel and I would just like to say that your content is fantastic and super informative. Thank-you for these videos, your insight and knowledge has increased my education and understanding of Catholicism and the Christian faith.
This was a very well done and kind video, Brian. I love you how you state from the very beginning your love for our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters. This approach is far superior than the bickering that we see so often between Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, and Protestants. Thank you.
I think "bickering" is good so long as it is to learn which Church is true. If one is true and one is not, a lack of conflict would almost be an insult to God as it demonstrates that you don't care enough to correct error
@@mathieuconklin3146 I can agree with this. I am speaking more to the difference between respectful debate and shouting.
The moment in Ukrainian church was hilarious. It made me laugh. I think I can imagine the scene. But in one segment of the video you were wrong. The Orthodox bishops who came from the council were under the pressure by Orthodox people and clergy, yes. But there was another part. They were under the pressure to sign the unity before that. We have testimonies from their letters. St. Mark of Ephesus is typical example. And he is not the only one.
Thank you for making a video! More people need to listen to converts stories.
I love when one of my brothers and sisters are able to see the truth.
Please keep spreading your story to help save lost ones and save their soul by bringing them to Jesus Christ.
God bless 🙏❤️💙❤️🙏✝️🛐
Your arguments are all in point. They were also what i noticed especially the historical effect on the world. The ottoman empire had more than a thousand years of rule devastating former christian cultures in their expansion of the empire and at its height would have ruled the entire world if not for lepanto and the holy rosary. Instead, the catholic christian ethos and viewpoint expanded to be the world wide norm that it is today. This is what Jesus wanted. This was what the Bible and Torah prophesied. The ottoman, indian and chinese empires never established such a worldwide norm even at their height. Yet, the orthodox churches fell under the ottoman rule. Jesus said that the gates of hell will not withstand His Church.
Im not eastern orthodox (yet) but I'm very much interested and studying it. I appreciate your point of view although I think I have heard some the details of the history of the schism portrayed a little differently. But beyond that whats interesting to me personally is how some of the things that repelled me from orthodoxy as younger man, partly the church's resistance to change, are now what are drawing me toward it. In my opinion, we are headed for some very difficult times and the root cause of this is man turning his back on God and serving mammon. So the distinction between what is of this world and what is of God is a very important one to me now as I am now being told, for example, that I either allow the world to push chemicals into my bloodstream against my will or i lose my job. This has been a wake up call for me and has forced me to consider if I want to be involved with any organization actively trying to become more worldly to increase its following. I find the word holy to be related in some way to the word interger-a "whole" number, and the word interger to be related to the word integrity. Integrity is in part resistance to change. Resistance to change is now in my mind a good thing as I watch man more and more assume the role of God, and more and more people obey them like gods.
Have you converted yet? I’m studying orthodoxy as well and am going to my first church this Sunday.
@@Thegreatone-tx1yl no I live in a very rural area that doesn't have a church. I have been going to a Catholic church and thinking about joining. I tell myself that Christ wouldn't have wanted the schism and probably doesn't recognized two separate churches.
Why not just follow a east catholic rite?
@@lboh5260 thank you. Found an Orthodox church last November and feeling better about things. Curious though, how does one follow an eastern catholic rite?
@Raymond Dunne there are 23 rites to the catholic church just as the early church. The first among many was always considered Rome prior to 1000 ad. Because the bishop of rome of being the successor of Peter. All the patriarchs of the catholic church has equal authority but just as polycarp did and ignatius of antioch they went to the first among many or the vicar of christ was another wording they used to make sure they were following apostolic succession when facing questions. Of faith and morals. Knowing peter was given the keys of the kingdom. So the eastern rites are eastern they follow their bishop and the pope only has authority when ex cathedra. Which if a fancy way of saying what was before.
Orthodoxy and catholicism separated more because of power everyone wants their country to be the center of the church... and language east spoke Greek west Latin and racism and nationalism just like today then was an issue and a reason to not get along. It is documented and shown that for ecumenical councils east bishops were called to the councils but they refused and decided to try excommunicating the bishop of Rome to hold their national power. East was very nationalized Rome was more spread out over numerous countries. There was no German catholic church like there was the Russian catholic church aka Russian orthodox church. For the monarchs and patriarchs to hold their power they did the split and fought against them selves for even longer. Many have come back and some parts. They practice almost exactly as orthodox do even don't have the filioque in the creed which isn't necessarily one way or the other. Many also have leavened bread. I'd say with time people have respected the culture and the language differences from times prior.
Interesting! I converted to Orthodoxy over a year ago. I think I was attracted to the melting pot of our small-town orthodox congregation. It is technically Carpathian-Russian, but the liturgy is in English. We have 56% Protestant converts - and the rest are Catholic, Serbian/Greek/Russian/etc cradle orthodox. I was really attracted to the melting pot and the warmth of the community. However, I know there are Western Rite Orthodox churches, and we are in communion- it is very similar to old catholic, and they do accept certain tenants of Catholicism that do not conflict with orthodox teaching. They even accept certain saints after the schism.
Where are you from? I go to Saint Alexis
I love your videos. I learn so much, and learn better ways to discuss these topics.
Another phenomenal product! I enjoy learning about both my Faith and your exercise of reason.
Do you have to be Italian to be Roman Catholic? No. Do you have to be Greek, Russian, etc to be Orthodox? No.
So why don’t you apply your faulty reasoning to the RCC?
he is lying on purpose, our churches in Greece are OPEN to ANYONE.
@@Kitiwake You don't have to have ANY connection with any Orthodox and you can become Orthodox. Your parents can be the worst kind of satanists and sacrifice babies every day, yet you still can become Orthodox and become equal with everyone.
@Felipe Silva lt is different to feel misplaced on your own because of language issues rather than not being accepted by those churches themselves..because this is what is being implied by the man making this video and it is a big lie.
@Felipe Silva I get what you're saying, and this is the thing... if Portugal, France, England, Germany or what ever country were in the Orthodox sphere... they would have the liturgy in their OWN language.
You see, the Orthodox way is your own way, you have the right to worship God in your OWN language and not just in Latin. To really feel it, to really REALLY feel it deep down into your last molecule, it has to be your own, in your own tradition and language.
I really LOVE the way our liturgies are, since I love church music, I have the pleasure of hearing our liturgies in so many languages!! I super love it! Especially old Bulgarian liturgies in old Slavonic.
@@Kitiwake Nonsense. You don't have to have relatives to become papist, just bow down to Pope. And they are ALWAYS roman catholics, and we Orthodox are Catholics, because it comes from the greek word καθολικισμός meaning universal, congregational, actually on english there is no real traslation so it translates as catholic.
And since when is "safety and prosperity" a measure of truth? Is that the message you get from the Gospels? Or from the entire Scripture for that matter? This is perhaps the worst part of your presentation when you say that somehow the hardships in the East are God's providential judgement for rejecting the Pope. Read your Jeremiah and understand that many an idolater lived in prosperity while being in utter error. (Jer 44:17) You should have stuck to your original desire to follow truth instead of what appears attractive. Instead your arguments are just based on what you perceive as an attractive history.
Precisely. He is shrouding emotionalism with a visage of intellectual, theological reasoning.
Another point to consider is the lives of the saints. They weren't prosperous. Many were martyred. Does that mean that Christianity is false? I find the comments that he shared regarding this whole matter to be insulting and ignorant.
I thought Brian did a great job threading the needle on this very difficult subject. You are right, in this life you will have tribulation and God has promised us nothing other than eventual triumph through the cross. But the cross we must bear nonetheless. With that said, there is a general trajectory that works its way through history eventually. Truth works in time and space and the gospel of the kingdom is very much like leaven in a loaf that gradually, over time, and at times it's one step forward and two steps back, but inexorably it will leaven the entire loaf. But here we come to an interesting point that Brian may want to consider. The metrics by which we measure such things is somewhat ambiguous and debatable but I think most of us will agree in general that yhe opportunity to choose your own career path and flourish in it, to enjoy civic freedoms and avoid tyranny, be educated. Live in a culture teaming with beauty, enjoy good health and long life, enjoy freedom of conscience etc etc all reflect the type of human flourishing that is the fruit of Christian goodness truth and beauty. And if you look at the broad scope of the history of nations and cultures I think it is fair to say that it's where all three of the branches of Christianity exist together in peace and enjoying a kind of divine tension, iron sharpening iron. I can't think of a single Nation that is primarily one of the three alone that I would care to be a citizen of when compared to living in a nation where all three co-exist. Does this absolutely prove that it may be God's will for all three to exist and find out how to work together? No. But it sure suggests it.
@Hexameter. 100% agreed. Well said. The Catholic church has been historically more successful. Were Orthodox to be in the majority today, this is where he would have gone.
@@laurameszaros9547 the Eastern Orthodox Churches have far more success than Rome.
The Orthodox Church in America has a church in Edmonton where liturgies are in English, and there are many different ethnicities represented in the parish .
Wow! Your spiritual search is so familiar, even though I have a totally different background!! I had almost no knowledge of the Orthodox Church until recently and I’ve asked myself the same sorts of questions. Articulate and intelligent video! 👍🙏.
Excellent. I enjoyed this very much. From a brother Portuguese Catholic.
*Rome sacks Constantinople, cripples its defenses, and then refuses to send support when the Ottomans invade shortly after*
"Welp, guess it's providence that Constantinople fell and Rome didn't!"
Constantinople would have fallen long before if the West hadn't sent aid through each successive crusade, sacrificing lives and wealth. The case of the sacking of Constantinople had as much to do with internal politics and dysfunction as it did with mistakes on the part of crusaders. If you're interested in the actual history, give this a watch: ruclips.net/video/0r376MkZwLI/видео.html
Me and My wife and children all converted to Orthodox Christianity this year. We attend an OCA (Orthodox Church of America) parish, almost entirely filled with American Protestant/Catholic converts. But we also feel perfectly at home visiting and taking communion at Orthodox churches in the Greek, Romanian, Russian and Antioch Traditions. Christ transcends all cultural expressions of the Faith.
Orthodoxy is paradoxical. Even with completely decentralized, autonomous regions (not denominations), it has real unity and consistency and Phronema (the mind of Christ) between all of them. Their dedication to preserving the Holy Tradition of the Apostles, monasticism, and rejection of the rampant dogmatic “innovation” that Catholics and Protestants take part in daily have sustained it faithfully for 2000 years straight. Orthodoxy is one. Western Christianity even with Catholicism has thousands of splinter groups. It is the True Church that has stood the test of time.
Soooo.. we just gonna pretend here, that 1204 never happened?
There are also 23 Oriental Catholic Rites Brian. Why don't you check them out?
The ethnic component of US Orthodox Christianity is basically over in most places. I attend a ROCOR (Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia) parish in west central West Virginia, where over half the parish members are white Americans of mostly Western European descent.
Out of all the videos about Catholicism I fall upon this one while living in Edmonton myself! I was baptized in 2015 at a Protestant church but have been presented with Catholicism and the Orthodox church both through people and the internet. It's confusing and a little nerve wrecking (especially with some Protestant friends being opposed...). I pray God will help lead me in this.
Yes, there's a lot to learn. Check out my videos about why I converted to Catholicism (two parts). The second part is more about the theological reasons I chose RC over Protestantism. ruclips.net/video/HkqPjxp2Ltw/видео.html
Hi can you give us an update?
Lots of interesting responses to this video from Brian. What I take from this is not a knock against Orthodoxy which he states from the beginning of the video (by the way) but his own personal reasons for the decision of choosing to become Catholic over Orthodox. Someone else’s experience may be very different and as a result their opinions would be different also. He is providing a breakdown of his opinion, not making a negative blanket statement as an argument against Orthodoxy. In the end it comes down to where we feel God wants us and where we best fit.
I got to correct one thing, even though is not that big of a deal. You said that "they [the orthodox churches] sent pastors" which is wrong because in Orthodoxy and Catholicism also, the clergy are called priests.
That is just Protestant bias, priest can be pastors and have been called pastors, it is what you do. "PASTORAL CARE". You can use both terms as long as you address the person with the proper title. You can say " Oh Fr. [So-and-so] is the pastor of my parish [or church]" There is nothing wrong their. I suggest spending some time in prayer to get rid of any qualms with the word Pastor. It worked for me, but hey I'm just some random gal on the interwebs.
I watched this video a long time ago. Since then I documented about Orthodox Christianity (I'm an Orthodox by the way) and I can tell you that you've misunderstood Orthodox Christianity and it's history very badly.
I returned back home to Orthodoxy from going to the born agains (false Christians) and thank God back to Orthodoxy 🙏💒✝️ Here are the major differences between Orthodox and catholics and ofcourse protestants
ruclips.net/video/hZNtaFzIqJc/видео.html
And definitely you failed to actually LISTEN CAREFULLY TO HIS REASON WHY? but sadly, I bat cannot be any blinder...
I feel same there, I do appreciate and respect the eastern traditions, aesthetics and asceticism, prayers, icons and beauty. I’d love to join an ecumenical Russian chorus, singing sacred songs in Slavic tongue, because they do have a divine and rare beauty, unique harmony. Upon visiting a Serbian Orthodox Church one time, and having asked our pope (priest) guide about communion (delicate question), if as a catholic I could receive the holy communion in his church, I was so blasted by his answer, I could sense the big gap between us. Misunderstanding. Later on visiting an ecumenical service with Copts and Russians celebrating the same patron Saints of our city (who originally came from Egypt, linked with orthodox Coptic tradition) again I felt such a distance, despite the beautiful official discourses. Uneasy feeling. They do let us feel we are not the same folks. So I am so glad to belong to the Latin church, more universal, with a pope, a Magister and also long tradition. The problem is not one tradition against another tradition, it is really the fundamental attitude towards people, towards believers. One is exclusive, the other inclusive. But we need to get inspired and take the best of eastern traditions. Should we go astray, they bring us back to the essentials.
What would a Roman Catholic priest say to an orthodox, if he asked whether he could receive communion in the Roman church?
@@Kani8122 I don’t think orthodox members would have a hard time getting communion in a Catholic Church. We profess the same creed, and our baptisms are similar. The opposite seems to be case for Catholics in orthodox churches.
There are many fundamental differences in the two, from which Catholicism has innovated far away from the original Tradition. But especially when your religion has a rich history of systematically murdering the monks and nuns and parish members of their religion, you may not be welcomed as openly as you would like. It’s much easier for Catholics to extend that “virtue” to Orthodox as they ignore the history. But virtue that comes natural or is under false pretenses with no struggle is no virtue
@@Kani8122- the Orthodox person would be welcomed to receive communion in any Latin Church Vatican 1 I believe made this very clear.
As a cradle Catholic all my life it's as if I am a fish surrounded by water of Catholism . It is wonderful to listen to someone who has sought out God and arrived at our beautiful church with alas mostly minimum help from us.God bless you and keep you always close to Him.
Catholicism? Oh dear
@@joeycsk8305 I hate to break it to you, but this is a Catholic channel with over 100k subs. If every Catholic comment upsets you, you're going to have a rough time falling asleep at night.
@@CybermanKing dont worry I do really sleep well. Thanks for your concern.
It came to prayers for me, I asked God where he wanted me, all I saw was Catholicism all around me from the bible to getting pulled into the Catholic Church and then the church fathers to know the history of Christianity. I find Catholicism to be so beautiful and I feel at home.
@@MikeyAGoGo101 I don’t distrust your prayers, but could you be more specific? I’m genuinely curious what brought you to Catholicism as a revert myself.
Hey Brian, talk to Jay Dyer. He'll clear up a lot of things for you.
What is that gorgeous chant in the background at the beginning of your video? I LOVE Gregorian., Ambrosian, Cistercian etc.
Wonderful explanation!!! Thanks for making this video. God bless you and your family🙏
Exact opposite experience I had after going to a Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Church! I was walking out after mass, I didn’t speak the language but wanted to see it, and someone who saw I was a new person followed me out and tried to talk to me, and when I said I don’t speak Ukrainian he spoke English but he was so friendly! Everyone was so friendly and so excited to talk about their church and greet us, it was lovely
I have been studying these topics for a while now and I find myself closer and closer to Orthodoxy.
It seems you have a few flaws in your logic and facts. But there are enough comments covering them already.
God bless.
Since you have more knowledge at the moment does orthodoxy also pray to the saints/mary?
@@triplea6174 Yes, in orthodoxy we "pray"" to the saints. meaning we ask them for prayers. just as you would ask your friend for prayers etc. Christ is risen and death has no power over the unity we have in Christ.
I am from Serbia and I am orthodox. I go to the church in my country and when I'm in Greece I go to the "greek" church and pray like usual, same goes for Romania, Russia, Macedonia... There is no ethnicity in orthodox church. You have the wrong impression about that.
@@pennsyltuckyreb9800 Honestly, it is very hard to believe and understand what I've read
That's bullshit and you know it. What orthodox church is there that doesn't have their Nationality's name attached to it?
@@cupocity303 I really don't care about that. It is one God, one faith.
@@cupocity303 Dude it's literally like that I'm also Serbian and i prayed at Greek and Romanian orthodox churches like at those in Serbia. It's not really about nationality the only important thibg is that it's orthodox church.
@@cupocity303 You mean like other churches?
I'm sorry you had that initial experience at the Ukrainian orthodox church. Hailing from that ethnic landscape myself, I can say Eastern Europeans are not the most warm or friendly right off the bat with newcomers. Especially in well-established niches like a local church. I'm actually exploring eastern orthodoxy more for myself currently, & part of the draw IS the ethnic milieu & traditions that I feel orphaned from, but I also know that Christ's church is not about conforming more to our own personal "flavor" preferences ABOVE loving one another. That being said, thank you for sharing your perspective & being a resource to those who are on their journey of finding a local church to call home, may we be led into all Truth by the Most High 🙏
Thank you for your interesting speech! What about Georgian Orthodox Church? It is interesting whether or not you have ever studied anything about it and about its long history. Cheers
i lean catholic (still deciding) but not sure the ethnic argument is the best, though i get it. their history from oppression & persecution shows why they were forced within their own communities. this is too difficult in my opinion, lots of history here. i get what you’re saying but you skipped a lot of history, maybe it’s too long to explain but may not be satisfactory for those considering both sides & those who are in the East.
then again, this is about why *you* decided so i won’t fault you too much ahah.
Every single religious community has both oppressed and suffered persecution. Catholic Church is not an exception, unfortunately this is something that happened in every single country. Protestants killed lots of Catholics and other denominations (look about what Lutherans did with Mennonites, for instance) as well as Orthodoxy killed lots of Muslims, Catholics and such.
The important think, in my opinion, is that Catholicism and Orthodoxy had a Schism 1,000 years ago... And however, their differences are tiny. Just some details differ. In the main practical things, they almost think exactly the same.
The Byzantine-rite Catholics suffered even more historically, because the Eastern Orthodox persecuted them as well as the Communists (with whom many of the Eastern Orthodox collaborated).
QuickRat i mean i don’t disagree? that is pretty well known, Orthodoxy ended up staying in ethnic groups because of its lack of contact with the West & not being able to branch out. that didn’t happen to Catholicism & Protestants. everyone suffered persecution, i wasn’t saying anyone did not. however, i think the history of why either side split is pretty complex.
Nadine Phillip Actually, there are political reasons here. The main theological reason of why the Orthodoxy has autocephalous structure is due to their rejection of the Roman authority. Thus, they believe each Patriarchy has some power over their bodies (i.e., National churched).
But this is only the theological argument, which is not that big. The political reasons are way more important in order to understand the Orthodoxy.
1) Since they do not recognise the Roman authority, their kings and emperors shall not pay tribute (economically or politically) to the Pope.
2) As a consequence, these kings and emperors could perfectly start a war against a Catholic country, since they were considered (to some extent) enemies of their faith.
3) Since these churches where separated in each country, its government could have more power. If Spain or France had a problem with the Church, they had to go to Rome and speak to the Pope as a foreign king. In the Orthodox world, this is way easier: the king had a lot of power over the patriarch.
This last reason is the main reason that made that in the 19th century, several communities in what now are Romania, Bulgaria and Greece converted to the Catholic faith. And since the Catholic structure is transnational while the Orthodox one is strictly national, communist countries cruelly persecuted Catholics, while the Orthodox churches where just directly controled by the communist parties.
This is not a critic against Orthodox christians. They have suffered a lot of oppression during the 20th century. Communism has been horrible for them. I just wanted to explain why in this part of the world they have a specific doctrine on the organisation of the Church.
It is a good arguement. I left Eastern Orthodoxy for Catholicism.... the ethnic flavor of parishes is too real... drove me out of the Greek Archdiocese in America.
I'm Greek Orthodox and our church is full of non-Greeks! My problem with Catholics is that they arbitrarily, and autocratically announce changes to the church (without announcing "councils" for change). Now you go to a Catholic "mass" and hear banjos and trumpets, and it feels very "protestant". There is no continuity from the past...whereas the Greek church hasn't changed. Greeks don't have a problem with the bishop of Rome (first among equals). But we do not accept his almighty authority and universal supremacy.
Traditional Latin Mass is the only real mass
Andrzej Ochał
Why? Did you know that the first one was Greek not Latin?
Doesn't matter. Roman Catholic Church is a Latin rite Church. It's like if I ask why do Russians use Russian or OCS?
Andrzej Ochał how do you say it is the real one when it is not like the first thr ones that did changes know more than the church fathers?
Jesus our Lord Bible verses Answer my question and perhaps you'll understand.
Thank you so much for your videos. I have been learning about the Christian faith. Things that I've never really encountered before.
I love many things about the Orthodox churches but noticed Rome is always the one leaving the door for unity open. What turned me away was they aren’t just in schism with Rome, but from each other! Antioch is in schism with Jerusalem, Moscow with Constantinople, several in America weren’t in communion with each other, it was like a never ending division the further I researched. How can I be apart of a church who isn’t even in communion with itself? How can they preach forgiveness and unity while being in division with everyone? I can’t reconcile that. I’ll pray for them but cannot let them drag my soul down.
The Orthodox Excommunicated the Catholics because the added the Filoque, not because of Papal Supremacy. Filoque broke camels back. They changed not us. Sorry but get your facts right. As you said the Catholics went to convert all. The Orthodox went to serve their own. So when you went to the Ukrainian church, you should have "When in Rome" tried their customs, and maybe would have learned something. The creed says, I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
"Only Rome has continued to enjoy safety and prosperity" well, when you send crusades to fight and siege Byzantine christians and help muslims to take Byzantium down (thus helping to the demize of your enemies) then yea i can see how "only Rome has continued to enjoy safety and prosperity"
I am frankly shocked he would even use this as a reason for choosing Catholicism. As if prosperity is a sign of being in the truth. That's ludicrous. Orthodox have been and continue to be brutally oppressed in parts of the world. The Orthodox have been treated as Christ himself was.
That's not exactly accurate, Rome and the papacy had nothing to do with the siege of Constantinople, that was done by individual groups and armies of crusaders. Also why would Rome ever want to help muslims? The whole argument that Rome wanted to destroy Byzantium is preposterous, if they wanted Byzantium destroyed the Pope would have simply ignored the Emperors call for help, Byzantium was already in decline and the muslims would have won anyway, also Catholics were already fighting muslims in Spain and Portugal, why would they ever want to help their mortal enemy? And Rome and The Byzantine empire were not truly enemies, not in a political sense at all
@@jajohnson7809 so have jews
@@mountainlover8167 It's not like Rome helped escape ante pavelic to south america and declare the man a "saint" for his roman catholic deeds, let me be clear.....not, NOT, his Christian deeds. Now, where would we get the idea from that Rome wouldn't support anybody's wish to destroy Constantinople? After all, they have a track record when it comes to good deeds....WINK, WINK, WINK. When you declare the head of your church Jesus on earth but then it turns out that he was a nazi sympathizer and used to ignore the child abuses in his organization (doc: deliver us from evil) then we can asume that the claims regarding support to conquer Constantinople are surely fase, right????
@@mitrovdan well considering he hasnt been declared a Saint I'd say you're point is a bit moot, and if you're going to bring that up why dont we bring up the Russian orthodox churches (lower case c for a reason) support of Russia's invasion of Crimea and Ukraine? How about the Russian patriarchs support of a Russian dictator and his accepted bribe of a golden watch? What about all the Ukrainian lives lost for the sake of nationalism that's rooted in a kingdom that existed over a thousand years ago? Let's not forget you Orthodoxers go after eachother more often than us.
This video tied my own thoughts together and made me decide to be Catholic.
Mine is the 5,001st comment on your video.
I was very distressed this morning about the decision I had to make going forward about which Church I was going to be a part of. Actually, I'm choosing both: my Western European Orthodox Church is Catholicism. By both Church's logics, this is the right Church for me.
"I'm the wrong ethnicity" is a really low-tier understanding of what Orthodoxy is, and a very goofy reason not to join the Church the Apostles planted. I'm 100% Ashkenazi - how many Patriarchs, Bishops, and Priests of the Orthodox Church do you think are Jewish? How many "Jewish Orthodox Churches" do you think there are? Zero. But I joined anyway, because it's the Church that Jesus built, and the Truth of Who Christ Is and what His Body Is should always take higher priority for us than ethnic division.