An Orthodox Perspective on Roman Catholicism
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Talk given by Archpriest Father Josiah Trenham at Saint Barnabas Orthodox Church in Costa Mesa California. Father Josiah delivers an Orthodox perspective on the Roman Catholic Church.
This talk was given back in 2016, here we are 8 years later and droves of Roman Catholics, including myself, have become and are becoming Orthodox. Thanks be to God
My goodness, was 2016 really 8 years ago?!
I'm torn on switching over to catholicism or orthodoxy. I like both of my local parishes and see value in both.
@@KillerofGods I'm neither, but, remember, it's not about what you like, it's about God
Catholic ❤️🏴
@Sebastian Bolt, beautiful comment. Until death I pray to God
I was converted from from Protestant to Orthodox. Let me tell you My dear Sisters and Brothers in Christ, I am in so much peace and lots of blessings. I wish this to all you 🙏🏾
Glory to God!
What is with that satanic picture as your profile? you are not orthodox you fucking communist fuck off.
Fire fromfire visit Ocacaw on fb
God bless you!
@@firefromfire4429 u aren’t supposed to be saying this as a Christian
Came from freemasonry to messianic judaism now in the holy Orthodox church as a catechumen its like every viel is slowly falling off my eyes
Blessings to anyone who has fed me spiritually ☦️🖤
Update:was baptized holy Saturday by the Georgian patriarchate took the name Raphael
St.Raphael of Brooklyn is my patron saint
how did you entered freemasonry?
Lmao WTF, that’s a crazy journey brother glad to have you ❤️☦️
@@flock9487 yes it was lol thank you family
I am Messianic/Hebrew Roots and feel pulled toward the Orthodox Church. It’s been seven years for me in this walk and I am beyond exhausted by the lack of unity and brotherly love. Congregations are seemingly splitting up left and right over the tiniest disagreements. And if they aren’t, they are controlled by a tyrannical pastor with no accountability.
I attended my first Devine Liturgy this past Sunday. It was the most beautiful experience I’ve ever had in a church. The Holy Spirit was present and almost tangible.
I still have a difficult time understanding when the Sabbath is and celebrating Christmas & Easter. I frequently have thoughts and feelings leading me to believe that I will be damned if I make the wrong choice.
At the end of the day, I must trust that the Holy Spirit will guide me to where I need to be.
So occult satanic ritual murderers who behind the scenes control the world, and Judaism aka satanism under Ham, to holy orthodox? I doubt you have confessed your sins and the sins of your fellow men...
This was the video that got me on the path to becoming Orthodox. I am now at peace as an Orthodox Christian as of October 2020.
Love from Serbia brother
@@ЗнадемЈаТебе Love from America
Was it hard to convert? What was your experience
@@tabiripetrovich517 I ran into information in college as a history major that made me think "the Orthodox monarchies aren't really discussed as often as the Western monarchies, let me check them out." I also found Orthodox chants on RUclips which made me fall in love with Russian and Greek chants while also making me curious about why the Orthodox were also claiming the title of One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Eventually I found this video on my way home from college one day and it made me think to myself "alright I want to at least check out an Orthodox Church now". I had been looking at Orthodoxy for over a year before I went to my first OCA divine liturgy and after walking in and experiencing it: I knew that I had found the reason for being alive. I was home.
@@revelation2-9 thank you for sharing. I'm a young roman catholic that has been looking at Orthodoxy for about a year now and this video took my breath away. I'm very interested in attending a divine liturgy to say the least!
I think what is lifting my heart as a Catholic watching this, is the tremendous Charity flowing from faithful Catholics who are commenting. It is the love of Jesus Christ Himself, gently reaching out in love, correcting where needed, but always with hand extended in brotherly, and sisterly, love. We continue to pray “that all may be one”
Charity? There is hardly any. One keeps spamming too.
That's wonderful! Perhaps you will attend an Orthodox Church.
Start building more Churches. I would have become Orthodox 25 years ago if there was an Orthodox Church anywhere near me.
that and let people know that the OC actually exists! i would bet real money that most people in the west don't know that there's anything else in Christianity except for RC and protestantism.
@@robo- I agree. I hadn’t even heard of orthodoxy until 2 years ago
Totally agree - it's almost non-existent in UK. I resonate with so much of the 0C teaching but have nowhere to go with that!
I certainly didn't know about the Orthodox Church until I had been lost and wandering churchless for 6 years.
So true.
As a Catholic, I have to say that Fr. Trenham's comment on Francis is spot on for a lot of Catholics as well....
The papal office is first among equals for the Orthodox also.😂
@@Kitiwakenot anymore, not after 1054
@@jumpinkim Rome demanded what it never had, broke away from The Church and falsely claims authority and rejects what has been handed down.
@@ourospost The catholic church evangelizes to the ones that God the Father calls them to His Son. No need to worry or be preoccupied about it.
I don't get how Roman Catholics, who are able to understand the heresies of the Western church intellectually, can imagine it's not a catastrophe for their immortal souls. Anything not of God is of Satan. It's like Roman Catholics don't really believe in Jesus Christ, heaven and hell, but they'll insist purgatory is a real thing, even though it's just another heresy. Heaven and hell exist. Do you believe it? Is it remotely important to you where you go, or are you so defensive of your team, you forget about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
I first came to Christ as a young adult and embraced the Catholic faith. At the time, I was 19 and knew very little about the Orthodox, but everything I heard from Catholics was positive. I have learned a little more here and there. I have tremendous love and respect for the Orthodox. I discovered this video tonight and am eager to learn more.
We are interested to hear more about your journey😊
What about Zeus or Thor did you ever look into believing them or do you consider those to be bronze age myths? Do you agree that Zeus is just ancient superstitious nonsense? Why not God?
@@radscorpion8 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_theism?wprov=sfti1
I am eager to learn more as well, but I’ve attended mass and I have family that are Catholic and Baptist. I didn’t know that I wasn’t supposed to take the Eucharist if I was not a credo Catholic or gone through all of the classes to become a Catholic but they only do that at Easter.. if I’ve been attending mass since I was a child on and off but regularly and knew about the Catholic Church, apocrypha than Why not that attend all of these classes for a year or more just to become an official Catholic? If someone doesn’t know anything at all about Catholicism, I understand, but not for someone like myself. I started attending classes at the one pair is here that does offer them and I started in January and it would’ve taken me until the next year at Easter, or 16 months, in order to be a legitimate Catholic! Additionally, I would’ve had to go off on some month or six Long camping retreat and that wasn’t possible because I had children that were still in school and I was a single mom. Here in Virginia, where I live, our lady of the Nazarene is almost trying to keep people from coming Catholics, but then Saint Andrews is completely different but they don’t offer the classes. sad!!
@@radscorpion8 that’s funny, but Zeus is mythology & Thor is a great movie’
As someone born in orthodoxy it’s nice seeing more people noticing it.
I love how the orthodox church addresses issues that protestants wont even touch.
Fr. Josiah handled Protestantism in another book/video
@@mariusfilip1847 fr. Jospeh used to be a Protestant. Presbyterian if I’m not mistaken.
That's not fair.
MANY protestant leaders have taken difficult and unpopular public stands and teaching on such things.
Let us unite in those things that connect us -- including speaking the truth.
Fr Josiah has taken care of issues internal to Christianity; Fr. Damick has taken care of external heresies. It's almost finished - I'd like to see a Priest take on atheism. I could, since I was a antitheist for fifteen years - once published on a blog at that - and gave it up for Eastern Orthodoxy, but I'm just a layman, not equipped to teach from an Orthodox perspective.
@@ourdictatorship Jay Dyer is a layman, though he often talks to a certain deacon and has talked some with other clergy. His channel is great; he's done debates with various people. He often argues from a metaphysical approach, and has some good stuff against atheism.
My husband and I are being catechized right now. We've never been happier or more full of peace and true joy. We were both raised evangelical, but separately had been seeking deeper truth for many years.
You don't find deeper truths in false interpretations of the word....
They teach you that the apostles received all truth and all prophecy 2000 years ago which is a lie....
The apostles said they only know in part and prophecy in part.....that's because they didn't receive all truths yet and they didn't receive all prophecy either....
They are adding their false interpretations to scripture and making you delete the 2nd half of the ministry of the holy ghost which came during the mass Pentecostal revivals of the 1940s and 50s and 60s....
That's when the church received all truths and all prophecy....not 2000 years ago
@dieselcowboy777 LOL that is the funniest thing I have ever heard from a protestant. You are saying Jesus lied in John 16:13 "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."
You're also saying that Pentecost was a lie when the church received the Spirit in Acts 2: 4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues a as the Spirit enabled them."
You're also saying Paul is a liar when he said that Jesus would take care of his church in Ephesians 5: "After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church"
You're also calling Jesus a liar in Matthew 28: and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. AND SURELY I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, TO THE VERY END OF THE AGE.”
I'd rather believe God than you. You fell for your pastor's lies and that's okay because you didn't know any better, but now I have shown you the truth.
@dieselcowboy777 I have another question for you since you mention scripture and history. Who told you the books in your bible are the inspired word of God? Who gave you the canon? Which version of the bible did Christians read before the 400s? You might want to look up the councils of Rome, Hippo and Carthage. Protestant pastors hate history and hate the truth because it proves them wrong.
@@johnsix.51-69 - the fact that Catholicism removed 7 books from the original Canon (the Canon which the Orthodox Church compiled,) and then, following the Reformation, protestants removed ANOTHER seven books, is worth noting. To those who cling to the heresy of Sola Sciptura, I gently inquire - "Which scripture, precisely, are you referring to? The original cannon, known by the entire first millenia of Christiandom? Or the dissected one which only the protestants claim to be correct?" Also, the KJV Bible is based on the Masoretic Text- which wasn't completed until the eleventh century! The Orthodox cannon, in contrast, is translated from the Septuagint - which was written 250 years prior to our Messiah. The Jews had no ability/need to alter the Christology of OT scripture during the Septuagint translation. So we can be sure of its validity and chronology, far more than scripture based on later translations.
It is always great to come back home.
This is one of the videos I watched when I was a catechumen. We left The Catholic Church and are now Orthodox.
Glory to God ☦
Sorry to hear that.
@HolyHammerOfByzantium Nice. The lack of Christian charity displayed toward Catholics by the Orthodox belies their calm and lukewarm attitude toward the Muslims. Amazingly arrogant.
It would appear YOU don't have the answer my friend.
Italy: 75% Catholic, Muslims nominal
Turkey: 1% Orthodox, 99% Muslim
Couple more points then I'm out.
You set the tone here. Orthodox always lash out (Muslim inculturation?) rather than work together. Consider that. I'd add stubbornness & an almost complete lack of pragmatism as faults.
Also, odd the Orthodox see the Reformation as a consequence of the Schism. Man made.
The spread of Islam was dealt with in the West. You guys got in bed with the Muslims, letting millions of Christians die, starve, & convert. Your low numbers of faithful a curse from God for sleeping with the enemy?
Correct your attitude brother. You (as a Church) failed our Lord & His mission.
@HolyHammerOfByzantium You keep believing that buddy 👍
Your primus is in Constantinople, right?? That's in Turkey, right?
@HolyHammerOfByzantium Hey! We agree! Jesus Christ is #1!
But He left a representative on earth as head, with other Apostles/Bishops/Metropolitans/Patriarchs.
Y'ever think Rome's screwing up so bad to let y'all "catch up?" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Seriously, the Muslim thing though . . .
Always in God's love, everything is possible.
My husband of 30 years, was a Richmond California Catholic when he met me the first thing we did, before even dating, he attended liturgy with me. After liturgy, I unsuredly asked him, what did he think? He said, quietly "I'm home". My heart, my soul, my God, spoke to me in that moment and showed me the path and plan God had for me. Unknowingly to me at the time, my husband as well. He was seeking and found his way in a Virginia GOC Orthodox church in Norfolk Va.
Just LOVE how Cleary father Josiah explains everything! Thank You SO Much!!
I'm born Catholic and love my Orthodox brothers and sisters, if I was born Orthodox I would love my Catholic brothers and sisters. Pray for Unity.
When you love someone, you want them to know the Truth.
Unity with heretics? #pachamama
@@starcityoldy Brother, you talk like everyone is drinking of some sort of koolaid... It is the mission of The Church, and it's layity, as a whole to check and balance these types of heresy. Remember, it was also the work of Catholic brethren to take those and throw that stuff in the river. If we arent militant for our church, we fail.
I pray that someday, as the Lord desires, for you and I to eat at the same table someday.
afvasque brother, I’m not against ecumenism, BUT every Christian must follow the first millennium Church teachings (Orthodox teachings) there is no compromise.
It’s not only pachamama the list is HUGE.
Roman's need look at the state their church is in an realize maybe somewhere along they line they have strayed for orthodoxy. Truth and love are inseparable. You can't have one without the other or all you have is reletivism.
On being baptized by our name (09:15), My birth name is Justin, and I was told that I could use that when I was baptized, but my wife and I both had come to the names Joachim and Anna Separately and it seemed like such an incredible irony that I gladly was baptized as Joachim and love these precious saints. But since converting and reading the writings of St. Justin Martyer and other Orthodox Justin's like Fr. Justin Popovich I have discovered a whole new love for my birth name as well.
I'm a Latin traditional Catholic and I love our orthodox brethren. Amen
One point, as a traditional Catholic, I believe V2 was a mistake and our pope who I'm praying for has done heresy.
@@joecappello6043 why the need to apologize for our faith? What heresy has the Pope "done"? I am sure you are incorrect.
@@joecappello6043Catholicism needs to be restored to it's former glory. I respect Orthodoxy and will be praying for the return of traditionalism in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has been sadly infiltrated by Free Masons and Communists.
Is that a separate rite within the church?
I never heard of them before.
@@joecappello6043I'm absolutely sure that you cannot criticize the pope in his teaching and that you have committed material heresy which is an excommunicate wrong.
I was raised Catholic. I got to see the drastic changes in the Catholic Church in the 1960s. Needless to say, I was very disillusioned and dropped out. Just recently I am listening to Eastern Orthodox videos and bought a few books, including the Eastern Orthodox Bible and Eastern Orthodox prayer book.
I am very enthusiastic about attending an EO church but there isn’t one anywhere near me within 200 miles since I live in the boondocks of New Mexico. But I will keep reading, listening to the EO Church videos and reading the Bible in its entirety to become familiar with Orthodoxy.
Teachings of the Catholic Church never changed, the implementation of certain VAtican II documents as the Liturgical documents was a farce and we are still suffering the reprecussions.
@@newlin83 That is a heretical movement. What bishops and what priest? It is no wonder non catholics have distorted view of the Catholic Church. Vatican II is not modernism, get wise and educate yourself about the Roman CAtholic Church, not all of this nonsence.
@@newlin83 I respect the sedevacantist movement. Many of th3m are better Christians than I and I can learn from them, but at the same time it is hard if not impossible to reconcile the dogmas of the papacy with such an approach. Being a Roman Catholic who doesnt recognize the Pope is akin to being a meat eating vegan. The problems go back a lot further than the 1960s. It goes back to the advent of natural theology where doctrine is established by the novelties of theologians and their clever arguments. That is why the Pope can turn his back on the faith, what allows him to do so. If not for Eastern Orthodoxy I'd still be an atheist. It is the only form of Christianity that has stayed true to the teachings of Christ and therefore the only Church that can withstand secular modern thought.
They are both married to satan....any church united with the state is of satan....
That includes the anglican church of satan in England...
All denominations are of satan also because the new testament doesn't have a hierarchical priesthood and that is an error that all denominations make....they all essentially create a hierarchical priesthood claiming they need a formal and methodical way to keep order hogwash....
God didn't put any man over another man....the only man over another man is the Lord Jesus Christ
Don't be sad, just keep praying and God will give you a way for you to become an orthodox christian. He can make all things possible, just believe!
I pray the church can heal it's wounds and become one again.
Yes, for the sake of the poor people who cannot afford all this shopping around....such a luxury...like flying the globe chasing Marian Apparitions or driving miles and miles for a church service in a nice car with a tank of gas. None of these speakers ever talk about what a luxury it all is.
May Christ and His Most Blessed Mother please bless all of His followers and may we find reunification soon; the Catholics of the world must unite in order to survive the Freemason Cabal that threatens to destroy us all. I hope to continue to have faith in God and His people. Amen.
Deus Vult Mox
Cultural Western Christians all need to discover Julian Joseph Overbeck, the forgotten Tractarian. His coming late to the debate due to being quite younger than Newman and his Protestant rivals has had him unjustly overshadowed by them. His work, taken up by Saint Tikhon, has been further overshadowed by the evil distractions of Communism, which left the Overbeck/Tikhon project incomplete until 1958, when Blessed Antioch finished it. Here we are, the Western Rite as Overbeck Dreamed, growing slowly but steadily! Praise God!
There's still only one church. Just different organizations within it.
Church never became divided. Heresies stepped from it before, but that doesn't mean that Church was divided by those actions. What catholics should do is to repent and return to Orthodoxy.
I'm thinking about converting to orthodox from protestant.
You must know the history :) and ask the holy spirit to guide you
Try Lutheranism LCMS
And then eastern catholic from orthodox ;)
David G Where are the remains of all the apostles?
David G I am asking you a question, so pls answer me with an answer not a question :)
I am converting to the Orthodox Church. I have been a life long Roman Catholic, but I can no longer attend Mass. Thank you for these teachings.
Glory to God!
Welcome Home
Praise the Lord
Catholic church is also the true church.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Dear sister do not do Just study the Life of saints in Roman catholic church pray the Holy Spirit for light in your doubts orthodox are still our Brothers but they still persist in errors our lord grave Saint Peter the KEYS of Heaven thats It i Hope One day our Brothers Will understand the mistakes they do i Hope the best for you sia lodato Gesù Cristo sempre sia lodato
Greetings,
I am a Roman - Catholic and must say that Father Josiah Trenham prepared very good speech. I agree with his view in 60% if we talk about (in many points of the conference )the Catholic Church in USA. I am Polish so in my country Catholic devotion and rules of fasting ecc. are different. However, Fr. Josiah doesn't know much about Catholicism, it seem to me that he just looked from outside, took some notes from few ecumenical councils and build beautiful sermon about how catholic Church is heretic. He forget about historical context, Papal state and many different things which had influence my Church. We have different understanding of documents and we look in different perspective. I must say that as many listed "heresies" of Catholics Father Josiah pointed, as many "heresies" and points of disagreement we Catholics can also present. Figlioque is one of this the same with Purgatory and authority of the Pope. Patriarch of Moscow is not best example to quote. As te same, unfortunately, with our Pope Francis. However, there are many mistakes in Fr. Josiah conference. First, Children of Fatima: 2 girls one boy. the oldest girl became a nun and died in XXI century, the boy and younger girl died soon after "revelation" as you call it. Second, no one in Europe among Catholics say that Russia would be converted to Catholicism(never heard about it). As you say Father, it's about converting to God in Russian origin Faith - Ortodoxy..... There are few others mistakes, however, is good to know what Orthodoxy thinks about Catholics. God bless!
I am an Orthodox woman married to a Roman Catholic man. Our faiths have helped us grow closer to God in the sharing. The schism took 500 years. Reconciliation will take just as long and can only be done through love.
It's s Catholic man .. Unless he is from Rome.
@@Kitiwake well the Greek Orthodox head isn’t the head of the Latin Church in the US. The Russian Orthodox head isn’t he head of the Latin Church in France. This is all really interesting and also a bit silly. There is one God. Christ came, died, is risen. The rest is just logistics of organization and language and culture. If there wasn’t a schism the Cold War would have been an actual world war 3.
Blessing and peace to
Suzanne Gonsalves family.
I had a Greek father and Irish mother joined for 60 years in the sacrament of Holy Matrimony.
They are resting eternally now.
Unity of the Church may be restored on the famy level first.
An example of love humility and family that bishops East and West need to relearn.
May God bless
Timothy Constantine Fronimos
@@Kitiwake Roman Catholics are those in communion with the Bishop of Rome. Orthodox are Catholic but not Roman.
More then a women 😉 that's great be blessed to your whole family!
Two weeks after the second Congress of Peoples Deputies a Catholic nun called to us asking us to pray for the conversion of Russia. I told her about Gorbachev .... and the revival of Orthodoxy. When she understood that this was identical to Greek Orthodoxy... She wept tears of joy.
The first time I watched this I thought this priest was unfairly critical of Catholicism. After watching it a second time, I realize that he is speaking the Truth, as challenging as it may be to hear.
Thank God you are able to open your mind and heart.
May Christ lead you home.
I thank God that there are Christians willing to hear out other branches. We need as many as possible if the unity that Paul repeatedly instructed is to be restored. I think it is a serious mistake for trinitarian branches to anathemize each other as if they were Arians or Nestorians. God bless you!
Your will always know the side that is in the wrong when they start to criticize what they see as "the opposition".
Your NEVER hear a priest in Catholicism give a homily criticizimg any other faith.
Fr. Josiah is a great highly educated priest.
@@Kitiwake hahahahaha yes I have and there was a lot more criticism when it was vatican I. Now because roman Catholics want to embrace everyone ecumenism you have this accept everyone even muslims and Jews.this is the reason why i converted from the Catholic church to Orthodoxy. There is no definitive truth. The papacy has embraced all truths as equal. Its a sad things when Catholics don't even know their own history. It was said before by Roman's if you were outside the church you were going to hell.
Iam an Orthodox but never really understood it this way, Thank you so much God bless your work
I am protestant and i fing this helpful too.
One of the most important videos online for this issue.
Thank you Father for such an in depth perspective.
I'm Catholic but love the Orthodox Mass. I won't leave my beloved Catholic church for the Orthodox. But I pray my church brings back the Latin Mass
Yeah the NO and latinization and modernisation is what turns off most orthodox coming back to the church. We will come back into communion with eachother, Francis is doing good in eccumenical things but isn't doing enough. As time progresses though we will in this hard time
I am a convert to the Catholic faith and although the Latin Mass may be the correct Mass in people's eyes, I do not speak Latin so it is lost on me. Most of my brother Knights go to different parishes where they offer both a Latin and an English speaking Mass. That way you do not feel pressured to try and learn Latin. I prefer the English speaking Mass. It's how I learned it.
When a lay Catholic Apologist studies the writings of the Early Church Fathers, and the Councils of the First Millennium, he becomes Orthodox.
@@brotherbrovet1881 I have tried my best to respect the Orthodox but you just don't let me. You Orthodox are to in love with yourselves. I didn't convert to Catholic to become Orthodox. Sorry. I love being Catholic, I don't agree with what the Orthodox do. Do not try and convert me. It won't work.
Orthodox liturgy* :)
Thank you for your perspective Fr. Josiah. As a Roman Catholic, I am deeply saddened at the state of my Church, and I know there is so much the East has to teach the West, which we need to re-learn. Reverence, beauty in the liturgy, the steadfast of holding on to Tradition, the deep call to repentance, etc... and I welcome all these things. But no matter what, I can never leave Peter. I can never his successor, Peter's boat despite how rocky it is, which at times seems to be sinking. I love the Lord Jesus, and simply seek to do his will. I believe one day, somehow through God's grace we will all be one Church again. But it will not triumphalism on either side, rather we will all be in unity once again. I know not how, but I simply wish to extend brotherly love to all my Orthodox brethren. May our Lord heal all the wounds of the past, and bring His Church to full unity soon. God bless you all.
Didn't Paul rebuke Peter?
@@killjoyredux8361 Yes, and often times he does need rebuke. But Paul never abandoned him, and neither can I, despite how rocky and sea sick I get on Peter's boat.
"If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (Cyprian, The Unity of the Catholic Church [first edition] 4, c. AD 251)
St. Peter is Orthodox.
I love orthodoxy immensely. I was raised a Protestant. I hold some Protestant beliefs very close to my heart. I’m trying to become a Catholic now simply because Jesus named Peter when He met him. Then of course He comes back and says I’m going to build my church on you, using Peter (rock) as His foundation.
I haven’t watched the video yet, so what I’m about to say may be redundant. I apologize if that’s the case
You won’t be abandoning Peter by becoming orthodox. In Orthodoxy, the Pope would be the first among equal patriarchs. This means that he’s have the highest seat of respect and, in an ecumenical council, his word may hold more weight. But he doesn’t have the ultimate word. This reflects the council the apostles held in the book of Acts.
As a Catholic who knows the teachings of the Church, I will say that I believe Father Trenham (who I believe is a real priest ministering real sacraments and who I think, from I’ve seen, is a great man) is understandably making the same mistake many Catholics themselves make, which is conflating common theological opinion and prudential judgement/practice with the dogmatic teaching of the Church, itself. And I can hardly blame him, as even within the Church this distinction is very often totally unclear. In addition, secular ideologies have permeated many diocese and all acknowledge that a great many mistakes have been made, particularly with regard to catechesis and piety. However, we must trust to God’s judgement and remember his promises, that just as the Iconoclasm heresy did not delegitimize the Orthodox Church and, in the working of God’s Providence plays a role in the ultimate triumph of Christianity (which I believe will include the reunification of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches), so too we must trust that this dark period of confusion in the Church will, in the end, contribute to her ultimate success.
"Confusion" or heresy, there is a difference?
The West is tainted by Arian heresy's effects & the East by the Gnostic's heresy similarly.
It's that simple.
We're a family. Families fight. Protestants are more like cousins 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I will say, in addition to this excellent priest's notation of Orthodoxy's failings, they also fail in evangelization & proselyzation . . . and they know it.
The example of Peter in the Petrine Episstles, Acts, & the Gospels is the West's best defense.
I would also point out that Orthodoxy does not share "infallibilty"--so there you go!
I’ve been telling myself this- but I realize I personally can’t take Francis anymore- I pray for him but It has struck me that I wouldn’t go to him for ANY advice. 💔
@@Readrose8 Many of us didn't take him in the first place. The future of Catholicism is traditional. He & his minions HATE traditionalism.
@HolyHammerOfByzantium Naaah, 200 - 500 years ago should do the trick.
Now maybe if Orthodoxy does something about the Muslims, maybe we'll talk.
I am a Catechumen for ROCOR, and this is a beautiful video.
Thank you Father! Greetings from the Orthodox south (Texas) :)
I pray for the unity of the Christian Church. One day we will stand hand in hand and worship at the same alter.
You can do that right now: just become Orthodox.
@@whitemakesright2177 He doesn't need to become Orthodox , he already is : he prays like Christ did, and like catholics do :) and this is true sound doctrine =ortho-doxia ; as opposed to false pretentions
ruclips.net/video/u5qYS2dKsN8/видео.html
@@nutcase777 Yep. If the doctrines are not the same, how can there be true unity? There could only be a false unity, ignoring doctrine or casting it away.
Same here
I am grateful that someone had the sense to record this guy. It would have been a shame to waste all of that wondrous wisdom on just a handful of people. I must admit that I had to take notes and will go back and research some of his words since his vocabulary is way over my head but nonetheless - he has taught me a great deal and prompts me to delve in and understand even more! Thanks for the upload.
woundrous wisdom, isn't it?? sadly, full of anti-Catholic bias and distortions- so, the extraordinary thing is that the unity of the Church has been kept in the Byzantine church, despite the fact it separated from the patriarch Rome, the center of unity that the Lord has given us - the problem is that I seen no unity among the Greek-Orthodox - they are not even able to gather an ecumenical council...
Its never a waste to work w/others. However I agree this is on you tube. As a ex RC who converted to Orthodoxy the 1-1 was great too. We all have a path whom have converted, some similar, some different. But in the end we found Orthodoxy, that was the miracle yet the life to live is still on.
@@silveriorebelo8045 Distortions? No: He was spewing outright LIES. As Dr Tyson would say, there is nothing more dangerous than a man who knows very little, but builds a whole story around the little little he knows, and presents is as the WHOLE story.
@@silveriorebelo8045
There is no ecumenical doctrine promoted by the Apostles. As for Rome, its departure from synodal authority was the falling away from the true Church. HISTORY.
@@silveriorebelo8045 agreed. Many issues discussed here were to diminish others while missing the opportunity to educate the why's and what for's so to speak. The East has centuries of experience in anathematising each other and falling in and out of communion at the whim of a patriarch.
All the true Christians .. Catholic, Orthodox or different are already united in the Faith of the basic doctrines .. Holy trinity , virgin birth , atonement of Christ by His death and resurrection etc ..
May the Lord open our hearts to realize our unity in Him and respect our differences and pray for each other 🙏🏼
As different children for one Father...
God deals with the heart and intention of any Christian despite of the Church that belongs to ..
I really appreciate Fr. Josiah, as a RC, I know we are split, but this talk is very informative.
I was lucky to be educated at a Catholic school by believe it or not an Orthodox priest. He taught me a lot of course.
I will never be Orthodox as I cannot leave the RCC as I believe it to be The Church, I am hopeful that we can be together again soon.
Thanks to my Orthodox brothers and sisters, pray for me please.
Unfortunately catholics to Orthodox believers are nothing more than a sect in that reasoning we could ever join as we don't see anyone believing in a pope as Christian
Dear brother. I too was like you. Born and raised in the Catholic Church. Catholic school, through high school. It was a long journey of searching for the original church in my early 30s. I thank God for revealing to me the truth in the Orthodox Church. For I the book of Jude 1:3, he wrote “to contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints”. The Catholic church has changed so much of what Christ hands down to the apostles. Unfortunately it has committed so many heresies over 2k years, how can it be the church. It makes me sad as an ex Catholic to see this truth, and to see my parents and siblings still holding on to it in hopes that it will return to it orthodox ways. But in reality, Catholics just need to look to was is still the original church, with all its grace, the Orthodox Church.
Once you step into the world of a Orthodoxy, only then can you see the obvious difference. Not only in worship, but in spirituality. Fr. Josiah was right what he said at the end, even if the pope and clergy agreed with the Orthodox on a doctrinal level, we Orthodox could never go and worship at a Catholic Church even if allowed. Just as you may see Protestant services watered down and missing substance to the Catholic Mass. We Orthodox get the same feeling when going walking into a Catholic Church and experiencing the Mass. It’s as though the Holy Spirit is absent from the service. There is that big of a difference between Catholic worship and Orthodox worship.
May God give us all eyes to see and ears to hear, and may he have mercy on us all.
@@joshuagilmore7522 The latin mass disagrees with your statement
@@damianperez7736 been there done that brother. Much more reverent than lost Vatican II for sure. I attended the Alton mass very often for about a year and I did love it. But as both as this speaker talks about, the phronema is missing in the west. Its k noire than just the worship. It’s something very difficult to explain. She did a good job trying, much better than me. I always tell people that you have to experience it to understand. Orthodoxy is a way of life. Even if you go to Latin , the fasting, the prostrations, the chanting, the icons, the Jesus prayer, the renouncing of ones self, and so much more are still missing in the Catholic Church. You don’t feel it as a way of live.
You must see today that it is not the church. Your dogmas from Vatican 1-2-3 are obviously false and heretical and you can't possibly support Pope Frank and his homosexual affirming, the praying in mosques and now the building of the Abrahamic House claiming that Muslims pray to the same God as we do. You can't possibly stay catholic in these times, the curtain has fallen and you have a heretic pope (who is infallible what an oxymoron).
I pray you abandon this satanic house and return home. One who truly repents and leaves their sins and iniquity behind, the Lord will always embrace back into the fold.
Repent and pray and come home brother in Christ. 🙏☦️
Im making a journey from Rome to Orthodoxy as well, and Im finding this to be a difficult yet amazing road. I ask that you pray for me brothers and sisters.
I feel your pain so to speak. I drive nearly 200 miles to closest orthodox church it's a Ukrainian orthodox church mostly converts loving supportive people. You will be in my prayers.
I will pray you repent from your schism....
@Euro-American Resurrection then why are you only in the East, when the Catholic church is throughout the world? you know very well there are "Uniate" churches all through the east though the Communists favored your schism and that the Lebanese Maronite Catholics NEVER LEFT Rome....
@Euro-American Resurrection plus you are splintered just like the Protestants and unable to agree, only its on ethnic anc country lines. there never has been a Pan-Orthodox council with any universality like Vaican II, etc
@Euro-American Resurrection Blah blah find another fool who has never read the fathers or studied the Councils....
I was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church in 2003 and just accepted everything on faith. I have to admit I felt that new person wonder of it all, as the years have gone by, my eyes are opening to secularism going on within. I've begun to feel like I need something that is nearer the origins of the Church. So....I'm still searching.
The Tridentine Latin Mass my friend.
The divine liturgy is the way to go. Check out your local Eastern Orthodox church, it's pretty great.
Thanks Fr. Josiah. I'm a Catholic living in Barcelona... Learning about orthodoxy with my husband since we got married. And the more we search the more we consider of leaving Catholic church and joining orthodox church. Thank you for your words.. that is the Truth!
Sara, te recomiendo visitar iglesia orthodoxa en Barcelona o Madrid, lo más probable sería iglesia rusa. Puedes preguntar el cura sobre las cosas que te interesen..
Why don’t you come back to the true church ,The Latin Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church is Protestant, very Protestant it’s false
There is an amazing Romanian orthodox church in Barcelona! Go speak to Father Aurel Bunda, he is amazing!!!!
One year ago, my husband, my children and me, we received the crismation in the Orthodox Church. Glory to God! The best decision ever made.
Our parish is the Protection of the Theothokos in Aragó Street (Barcelona), belongs to the Serbian Patriarchy. Thanks for your help!
@@sarapalmes8515 God bless you! I hope you and your family is blessed by God!
Do you have any advice for becoming the man i need to become, in order to find an Orthodox wife, who values tradition and femininity?
Thank you!
I wish someday all the churches with apostolic succession will unite again because they are all true church.
The Fatima children weren't three sisters. One of them was a boy and they were not even all siblings. I think the eldest (Lucia was cousin to the others).
Also, Lucia, the one that lived to our times, was actually the oldest.
Yes, he was somewhat misinformed there. But his address is magnificent otherwise.
@@gerardmaroney3918 Hello, fellow Pageau fan:)
Catholic here. THIS is interesting!!! Very good video. I watch a lot of traditional Catholic videos as well and now you have caught my attention. I've been looking for an unbiased book on church history. Does Rock and Sand cover that or do you have other recommendations?
I'm atheist from a Muslim family but I found Orthodox strongly connect with me more than Catholic did.
I wish you the best of blessings with Christianity, I hope you follow the faith, whether you end up following Catholicism, Protestantism or Orthodoxy.
My and my wife both Turkish and became Orthodox
I am currently a catechumen at St John the Divine in Jacksonville Florida. It is a beautiful journey.
I have not yet watched the video but I want to say that as a Catholic I have a deep deep love for my Orthodox brothers and sisters in Christ! I visited a Coptic Church in my hometown not too long ago and everybody was so kind and they invited me to their Mass! You have a beautiful tradition ✝️❤☦
Coptics aren't part of the Orthodox Catholic Church. They're Orientals.
We don't have Mass, we have Divine Liturgy. Please visit one of our churches some day. May God bless you!
Coptics aren’t in communion with Eastern Orthodox. Lmao.
in orthodoxy it's the divine liturgy, not mass :)
What a wonderful video! I was a Roman Catholic, and now I'm an Orthodox Christian.
May God reunite the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches again once and for all. Amen.
Matheus Motta - the Catholics and so called Orthodoxy have different fundamental beliefs. They distinguish between the essence and energies of God and by doing so, Believe in Three gods, not the Trinity. They also take many pagan practices of the Eastern Religions, such as practices reminiscent of Yoga.
@@wes6363 Which one? RC believe in one God in three Persons. They do not believe in yoga or buddhism.
I was born Catholic and I'll die Catholic
Charity Comments Orthodoxy does. Their "st"" Gregory made the Byzantine church declare a distinction between gods Essence and energies, therefore, Orthodoxy is actually Polytheistic.
Megyn - I did not say three gods. I said that they have a difference between The fathers Energies and Esscence, one of which(the energies) more sacred than the other (according to "Orthodox" theology) therefore, they are separate Gods in their own right.
Also, no difference in theology? Their entire concept of the trinity is radically different from what Catholicism teaches.
Catholics teach that the Father and the son are co eternal, and that the holy spirit descends from both of them, as expressed in scripture and the church fathers, whereas the "Orthadox" teach that the holy spirit and the son both come from the Father. Very very different things.
Greetings from Romania, where the Orthodox church is under siege.
@Kyril J There have been two scandals involving a priest that was also a traditional music singer and I personally considered him to be kind of weird as a priest, somhehow inclined towards Protestant practices. Eventually it was found out that he was ”into boys”. Another case of homosesxuality in the Romanian Orthodox church is even of a bishop, the former bishop of Huși. This is very worrying to see such rot inside the Church. And because so many people are stupid, ignorant and superficial, there is a strong anticlerical current that contributes to the errosion of the Romanian orthodoxy and the rise of atheism and shit.
I personally think we, the Orthodox people should be more united. The Orthodox countries. But the West is doing their best to demonize Russia and Putin. Even if we did have a lot to suffer from the Soviets, if we have to think in terms of historical perspective. it most certainly would do us better alongside Russia than with the traitors like Merkel and Macron.
I was not aware of this. I will pray for you and the Orthodox Church in Romania; and hope everyone else does too.
Mike Turk Offtopic question here - I am not trying to intrude, but just out of curiosity: is your name Mihai Turcu?
@ Mike Turk who's besieging the romanian orthodox church ? the orthodox who dispute their own church rulers
@@eeaotly I reckon it must be. Now it is my turn to become curious...
Actually, when it comes to translating the ”turk”, there is only one way.
As a former Roman Catholic myself who has been chrismated into the Orthodox Church I find this video very insightful and helpful. I'm So blessed to be Orthodox.
Glory to God!
Catholic church is also the true church.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
That means that you now deny the sainthood of John Fisher and Thomas More, which makes you a variety of Protestant.
ruclips.net/video/Gfva7Zwzyfs/видео.html
I'm looking at orthodoxy as a Roman Catholic. Suggestions on which Patriarchy?
A patriarchy is a group of Orthodox Churches that have a common leader, called a patriarch. There are many patriarchies in the world, and they are different in some ways, but they all believe in the same God and the same Jesus.
To choose a patriarchy, you need to think about what is important to you and what makes you happy. Here are some questions that you can ask yourself:
Where do you live? Is there an Orthodox Church near you? If yes, what patriarchy does it belong to?
Where are you from? Do you have a family or cultural background that is connected to a certain Orthodox Church? If yes, what patriarchy does it belong to?
What do you like to learn about? Do you have a favorite topic or idea that is related to Orthodox Christianity? If yes, what patriarchy talks about it the most?
Who do you know or admire? Do you have a friend or a role model who is an Orthodox Christian? If yes, what patriarchy do they belong to?
I am Orthodox baptized as a baby, coming from an orthodox country.
I know it is not easy to find an Orthodox Church in North America.
My advice: attend some services, not only one.
Go to the Orthodox Church where you can pray. You will know when you find it. After that, you look at which Patriarchy they belong to.
In the end, the dogma, the praying, the teachings are the same. The small "t" traditions may vary, but they should not stay in the way of anyone.
Excellent speaker. Very clear. I am not Christian, just a servant of Jesus, but can appreciate a man of conviction and competence.
How can you be a servant of Jesus and not Christian?
The host being unleavened is because we believe it happened during Passover. You believe it happened before so it makes sense the loaf has risen. Also given what we feel about the host being the body of Christ there is the crumb concern. I had the opportunity to have regular yeast bread consecrated a few times. One was during elementary school at a school mass 70’s... and the other was as an adult for a Good Friday service. I think they ran out actually.. The big problem was crumbs. The other problem is we keep consecrated hosts in the tabernacle. Bread would get moldy. There is also storage and space for before the service. They keep longer. We have very large parishes. People receive regularly.
Excellent talk! I'm not officially Orthodox, but very interested and driven to learn more. I'm a Nazarene Protestant with an M.Div. in Christian Apologetics. I have been attempting to memorize Creeds and study the early Fathers and continuing to be enlightened by Orthodox practices and biblical truths. However, I'm concerned and hope that I don't become bitter towards Protestantism. I look forward to watching and learning more. I've already begun ordering materials and books from Father Josiah.
Hi !
If you need help with questions about the Orthodox church, I can try to help.
If there are tougher challenging questions that arise, Ive got my spiritual father (my parish priest) to back me up. Im no theologian, just a sinner.
ruclips.net/video/Gfva7Zwzyfs/видео.html
As a traditional Roman Catholic, this lecture serves as a starting point to understanding the differences between the still traditional east, and what's left of the traditional west. Magnificent content. Bravo Father Josiah. As believers in Christ, we are all obligated to acknowledge our mistakes, misunderstandings, and shortcomings, and to seek and receive forgiveness. No one is innocent.
A single point of discrepancy -- as someone who has known all his life the details of the miraculous apparition at Fatima -- never, EVER did I hear any priest ever interpret the phrase spoken by Mary: "Russia will be converted" (which is a mere fragment of the monumental message she gave) to mean that Russia will embrace Roman Catholicism. Never ever. Every Roman theological analysis that has been made to date (as far I know) points her words to mean that Russia would recover from the anti-Christian, atheistic Communistic errors she would spread throughout the world (mind you, these words were uttered a full month before Lenin's Bolshevik overthrow of the Russian Republic) and that Russia would RE-EMBRACE her old Faith -- in this case, her traditional Faith, Russian Orthodoxy.
It would be difficult to disprove Fatima, being that the miracle of the sun on October 15 was witnessed by nearly 200,000 people, and not necessarily in the vicinity of Cova Da Iria, in Portugal (some as far away as France witnessed the sun dance in the sky) and that not one or two, but literally thousands, of lame discarded their crutches, blind recovered their eyesight, deaf began to hear, and numerous other inexplicable miracles, all well documented and witnessed, even by members of the government at the time who were agnostic Freemasons.
You can't be a traditional "Roman" catholic ( unless you live in the diocese of Rome).. But you can be a traditional catholic.
@@Kitiwake Got it. Roman, as in the western rite. In my case, the growing adherence to the so-called Tridentine liturgy. Father Josiah is correct in saying that the codification of the Roman form of Mass obliterated most of the other rites in the west.
True but we need a serious break from the deep filth displayed in the Catholic Church. We are human living on earth and children of God. We don't deserve to be abused, mistreated and mislead. It's a great feeling to hear what this Priest has to say. We feel the pains most particularly when the devotion is meticulously deep. God bless you
@@userPs91victory and God bless you too.
@@SS-qo3nt The Blue Army, like any number of prayer groups or sodalities in the Catholic Church, is a lay initiative that may espouse a particular opinion within their group. Some agree, while others do not. This doesn't make what they say theological fact.
Ultimately, determining the truth of a declaration is the job of theologans. Books declaring truths carry a nihil obstat, given by a bishop, assuring that it is free of error.
As far as I know, no nihil obstat has ever been given regarding the faith to which Russia will convert. This is a matter of opinion. So, in my opinion, and in the opinion of every Catholic I know, it makes perfect sense that Russia would, as it has, reembrace its Orthodox Faith. It fills me with joy to see Russia's churches packed with faithful, not having to fear for their lives for worshipping our Lord Jesus.
Anglo-orthodox here for lack of a better description. Just want to say thank you for a wonderful presentation! We are in absolute agreement. I don't deny 40 days of mourning after the death of a believer, but I only wonder what does Saint Paul mean when he writes "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"? How are we to understand / reconcile those teachings?
I was born Catholic but not practicing because I feel let down by the Church and the upper clergy which I've identified as always going along with the current mainstream and powers. I know there were and are a lot of good Christians in the CC, but I've begun reading Seraphim Rose's books and they made me interested in Orthodoxy. I will listen to this talk with great interest.
I pray you've stayed Catholic these past 2 years?
@@David-we3sbWhy?
The title here is misleading.
There is ONE Catholic Church, consisting of twenty-three RITES, one of which is the LATIN RITE.
"Roman Catholic" is a derogatory term coined, in the sixteenth century, by Protestants as a form of insult.
technically orthodoxy is still catholic church, but when we say roman catholic we think about church that is leaded by pope...it isnt just derogatery term, but term simply to divide context of saying catholicism and roman (papal) catholicism
"Now I confidently say that whosoever calls himself, or desires to be called, Universal Priest, is in his elation the precursor of Antichrist, because he proudly puts himself above all others."
- Pope Saint Gregory the Great - defender of Orthodoxy (or as he is known in the Orthodox Church, Saint Gregory the Dialogist; Book VII: Epistle XXXIII)
ruclips.net/video/T8jySzwn9ho/видео.html
Who's calling himself Universal Priest?
@@catholicdad patriarch of Constantinople wanted to institute such title - and such act would be a heresy....ironically, todays popes use such title
@@aleksandarstavric2226 59 years a Roman Catholic (now moving into Maronite Rite) I've never heard that title.
We are told Catholic (Katolikos in Greek) means "universal" but I've never heard/seen the term "Universal Priest" used in any context.
@@catholicdad that's the problem sir .... "Katolikos" doesn't mean "universal" at all ! That's a primitive latin translation , Latin language is very beautiful but very limited and poor. It was very difficult to translate first Bible (originally written in Greek ) to Latin... Greek language is super rich and abstract , latin is non of this ....regarding all this word "katolikos - Καθολικός means fullness or perfection, wholeness ...
I am converting from Protestantism to Catholicism because of history and God. Neither History nor God does not lie.
Welcome home! The journey has only just begun
Who is he trying to convince? I am catholic and I am 81 years old. Never , ever I have seen a catholic priest talking about another religion (critics) on the contrary we pray for unity, not division. Since you start your Homily the only thing you have done is critics to the Catholic Church.Much of what you say I have not see it..
Maitreya Buddha why have Buddha as profile mr.orthodox?
Orthodox and Catholics are brothers we should always remain united.
Marco Casarrubias how though. In order to be united, in the sense of pre-schism, either the Catholics or the orthodox have to become the other… There is no compromise, either the pope has to return to being the patriarch of the west, or the eastern orthodox churches have to accept the pope as the head of the church.
At the time of the Schism of 1054 between Rome and Constantinople, the membership of the Eastern Orthodox Church was spread throughout the Middle East, the Balkans, and Russia, with its center in Constantinople, which was also called “New Rome.” The biggest difference between all the churches that were created by the apostles had to do with traditions and culture, where the Orthodox Catholic Church was Greek and the Roman Catholic Church was Latin. The Orthodox Church viewed all Bishops as equals but Rome felt that the Bishop of Rome was the direct descendant of Saint Peter and therefore needed to be the leader of the church and represent the church when dealing with political matters. After the great schism, the Orthodox church realized that a leader was needed to represent the church, so a Patriarch was established (leader among equals) which is basically what the Pope is. Soon, each Orthodox division elected their own Patriarch, as in Patriarch Pope of the Coptic Orthodox, Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East, Patriarch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, etc. The followers of all the Orthodox Churches amount to a few million whereas the followers or the Roman Catholic Church is in the billions. It is to our benefit that the original churches that were established by Jesus Christ's disciples remain united like they were during the first thousand years after they were established. This is why the efforts between Rome and the Orthodox Catholic Churches to re-establish friendly relationships and eventually become one is very important, to be in communion with each other. We already have enough enemies of the church, like Atheists, Radical Muslims and other Religions (including our brother Christians and Protestants) attacking us, we should stop attacking each other and pray for each other. That's what I meant "Orthodox and Catholics are brothers we should always remain united." Traditions and practices set aside.
Marco Casarrubias Okay, but traditions and practices cannot be set aside, lest the two churches cease to be - my first point about The papacy in relationship to the other patriarchates ultimately ends the debate. A prima intere pares status for the papacy, would be excellent, but at that point Roman Catholicism wouldn't be Roman Catholicism anymore, it would be western Orthodoxy. And if the Orthodox Churches of the east would acknowledge the pope to be infallible, and supreme, they would become Eastern rite Catholics. By definition neither are going to do that.
There is a fundamental ecclesiological difference between the two, should they be united as far as possible, absolutely! Especially in social issues and collegiality in demonstrating the very close theological systems, nevertheless, there are stark differences, not only in theology and practice, but also in communication and language (not just liturgically, but as far as theological categories are concerned). There are Christological differences, creedal differences, differences in the understanding of grace, what it's for, and what is it? as well as episcopal differences. The West holds to augustinian-Thomistic divine simplicity, the East to the distinction between essence and energy in God (Gregory of Palamas), these things can't just be swept under the rug. Each side regards the other as in schism and heresy.
I would love to see the churches become one united entity once again, I'm just skeptical about the optimism especially coming from ecumenical Roman Catholics, I'm concerned that they don't actually understand the differences or the ramifications of unity. Just things to think about.
I agree. I have subscribed to this channel, I enjoy these videos and I am Catholic but very open-minded about the Orthodox Church. Great videos.
Marco Casarrubias just so you're aware, I am neither a Roman Catholic, nor Eastern Orthodox, I'm a Lutheran, I'm just very closely paying attention to these issues and I am also passionate about the unity of Holy Mother Ecclesia.
Father, peace be with you! There’s an error, because it wasn’t 3 sisters that saw the apparition of the Virgin. It was two brothers, a brother and a sister, and a cousin, that later became Sister Lúcia, of the Carmelite Order!
I am Orthodox and I love my church, but as far as I see most Orthodox Christians don't follow the bible and most haven't even read the bible. We go to church on Sunday and pray, but after that there is no growth or change within the people. It's pretty sad.
I am protestant and that is one of the things that I have really noticed in RC, Orthodox, and mainline Protestant churches.
I'm Orthodox, and take the Faith very seriously, including regular prayer, Bible reading, keeping the fasts as best as I can, including the Wednesday/Friday weekly fasts, etc. I know most of us moderns don't take the Faith as seriously as I do, but that is the beauty of Orthodoxy, you do what you can. ☦Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us.
@@pravolub8 there is no beauty in not taking the faith seriously though. Being lukewarm is not cool.
@@azelenovic3005
True! Will the Lord find any Faith upon his return? ☦Lord have mercy!
Heres the 1st time ive seen american spirit in a positive way.Im really happy to see that
It is a friendly and united spirit but its not fake like i use to see it om television etc.
I really appreciated this. As a Catholic convert for the past two years, I am always learning and expanding my views on other denominations. I am looking into the Eastern Orthodox Church more and trying to understand their view of history.
👍
Why not just look for an Eastern Rite parish?
@@pavelrazamazov2672 Why not just respect someones decisions and life choices?
ruclips.net/video/Gfva7Zwzyfs/видео.html
God blesse you all!
Wish you all a Holly and nice
Easter!
Greetings from Athens -Greece
Tha first time I watched this presentation, I had been through the Roman Catholic RCIA program, as a result of one of my two living sons leaving Protestantism and converting to Roman Catholic. After months of conversation with my other Protestant son, he called to ask me if I had heard of Eastern Orthodoxy. Thank you Father Josiah, for your Rock and Sand presentations and book coupled with Abbot Tryphon’s reflections gave me an excellent introduction to Holy Orthodoxy. I became a catechumen and was baptized into the Church at Three Holy Hierarchs Orthodox Christian Church in Wenatchee! Glory to God!
My youngest son and his wife and children were baptized into the Church three weeks later in Pharrell, Texas! Glory to God in all things!
Even as a Muslim who disagrees with theology the Apostolic church. I have high respect for all my Catholic, Orthodox and Church of the East brothers and sister beliefs. Mind you I lived with Christian and ultimately ended up as atheist but after few years it lead me to depression and eastern religions/traditions which was great however there was a disconnect on the levels of subjects of knowledge in the faiths. And Ultimately I came back to Islam after watching many recent debate videos and just praying after so long. Still I want to say all those from the Apostolic church you are my brothers and sisters even if I disagree with you . May we unite in peace 🕊️. Amen
Thank God for you Fr Josiah.
God bless you Sydney! May your life in Christ with the aid of Fr Trenham be great and triumphant.
Sydney I am doing the same thing during this pandemic. Much blessings to you Sydney on your journey.
The Orthodox accept divorce and remarriage which is against Our Lord’s words in the Gospels...
Colin Sheehan an annulment isn’t a divorce. It’s a recognition on behalf of the Church of the invalidity of the sacrament.
Colin Sheehan I don’t know what kind of people you happen to be hanging out with to draw such a conclusion based on the actual doctrine of the Church. 3 things are necessary for any sacrament to be valid, (the orthodox also believe this to be the case): form, matter, and intention. An annulment is simply the recognition that there was no sacramental union in the first place due to a lack of intention, or proper form. Catholic doctrine has nothing to do with what people are doing but with what Christ has revealed to the Apostles.
I am a convert Roman Catholic. What both sides need to do is to sit down and sort out the differences. I for one see the beauty of Orthodoxy liturgy, and have a deep love for my brothers and sisters in Orthodoxy. I rather focus on our similiarities rather than to look at differences. Imagine if our Lord Jesus is here in our midst... what would He say?
We cannot focus on similarities until the differences are sorted out. Think about it: some of the heresies of the past are tiny compared to the differences we have today. Christians of the Ancient Church quarrelled even for a letter (homooussios versus homoioussios) - how much would they quarrel for a giant elephant like Papal Infallibility?
The Catholics are open to unity. The Orthodox are not. The orthodox are not a unified body anyways, they do not do anything together right now.
@@mariusfilip1847that is just the excuse. The reason reason they split is because they couldn’t agree on the name of the Church. The East wanted to name it the Catholic Orthodox Church while the West wanted to name it the Orthodox Catholic Church.
It takes humbleness, to stop and admire the honest piety and fear of God in a fellow Christian ‘s worship, despite the overarching theological differences that have crept in over the centuries. Moreover, father Threnham is not afraid to wisely highlight the ‘nectar’ from Catholic or Protestant traditions which would enrich my Orthodox life. Father Trenham sets a bright example, through Grace, as to how I embrace christians of other denominations, without diluting the Biblical Truths of Eastern Orthodoxy. The blessings of our Lord and Saviour upon father Trenham, his family, and Holy mission.
My Catholic Professor in my Masters said that he is more into the version of the Orthodox Christianity when it comes to the creed. Filioque means that the (Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father "and" the Son...) in Catholic understanding... My professor said that "When the Father send His Son He send Him together with the Spirit." For example he said that in the incarnation Jesus was send and became man coceived in Mary through the Holy Spirit. Another is before Jesus begins His public ministry, during His baptism the Holy Spirit rested upon Him in a form of a dove and in Jn 6:63 where Jesus saying that the things He have spoken was of the Sprit and Life. So my professor concluded that it is more correct to recite the creed in this way ( "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and the giver of Live who proceed from the Father through the Son...") This is actually still aligned in the Eucharistic prayer we Catholics say. (Through Him, with Him and in Him - Jesus - In the UNITY of the Holy Spirit...) this still shows that Jesus is always together With JEsus where the Father sends Him.
I think Catholic Church and Orthodox Church must re align everything from every original tradition before the Schism happen so that they may be one again.
I was raised Roman Catholic and after learning about the Schism I grew more and more interested in knowing the Orthodox Church. My way of repairing the division is simple: to become Orthodox! I found totally unacceptable to remain on the wrong side of the schism. How can I remain roman catholic after knowing about the Schism? No way.
Welcome home.!
You know the orthodox are the schismatic, right?
@@JJ-il8vf The other way around, but the romans think they are right.
@@Jerry-er6lq I think roman patriarchy went overboard and orthodox are waiting for the roman bishop to come back to board. I has to happen some day.
@@Jerry-er6lq Since the schism the patriarch of Rome has done so many innovations that it is hard to list them all like Fr Josiah said, starting with the Filioque doctrine and going so far as to change the Nicene Creed simply because the Franks wanted to add the Filioque and get a rival from the East, Pope Leo III went as far as to having to explain to one of the Frankish kings in a council with the Easterners that his reasoning behind the filioque was wrong. Due to the Franks pressing on the Filioque the Pope had two shields with the original nicene creed written in Latin and Greek in order to make it clear that their intention was not to change the creed yet they ended succumbing to the demands of the Franks just because of territorial control and supposed unity.
I don't like debating the papacy because all one has to do to throw it out of the window is demonstrate that the pope has been falible many times before.
I hope and pray for unity between the Orthodox and Catholic churches. Pray with me.
Let's pray that the Ukrainian orthodox church will reunite with the catholic church. Baby steps?
People like Father Josiah and Father Seraphim Rose are precious for West, like people from english world who can close up Ortodoxy to Western man in way understandable to him, Us on East try to, but Our way of thinking in Old World sometimes is to mystical for Westerners, so thanks God for people like this priest from their people and to chance for us to look that chance has been given to our brothers from America to meet first original apostolic Church as it is for 2020 years.
Though I am a Reformed Protestant, if I ever want to learn something reputable about Orthodoxy I go to Josiah.
Read his book Rock and Sand. You should listen to his testimony.
Reformed Protestant as well.
Former reformed Protestant now in the process of becoming orthodox because of Fr Josiah 🙏🏻
ruclips.net/video/Gfva7Zwzyfs/видео.html
I havent told my friends yet and I dont even know if I will but I am looking into Eastern Orthodoxy and im writing down some questions and talking to a priest on Sunday. I feel the Lord might be leading me this way and if you would please Pray the Lord leads me properly. Im protestant and have a lot of fears. God bless everyone.
I love Roman Catholic church more than others churches' practices
This video was the conversion moment for me to Orthodoxy, back in autumn year 2016. I saw this video as Roman Catholic since 2007. I had recently arrived home from the Philippines, known as the "catholic Poland" of Asia. What I witnesses floored me: A protestant/pentacostal version of Roman Catholicism as his becomed after the Vatican II council post 1969. Holding hands in the parish during Our Father, guitars in the sanctuary and simply a stripped down protestant worship service.
I had already began to study the Great Schism trying to find out the main reasons for the split and the most obvious outcomes in booth camps. When I came home I could no longer have peace in my little Traditional Latin mass society parish in Gothenburg/Sweden knowing that this parish a HUGE exception from what was is going on in the rest of Europa, certainly in USA, "my" Latinamerica as in...Rome itself. (Asia and Africa are not excluded. Only about 2% of all RC parishes celebrate the Tridentine liturgy despite the encouragement of the former pope Benedict through his "Summarum Pontificum" in year 2008.
I was sent this video by a russian orthodox friend on facebook and it became the tipping point. Fr Trenham reveals in a very loving way "secrets" about the Roman reality post V2 that I was embarrassed at first that he mentioned but that I know is true. I have seen world wide.The liturgy is the outcome of the theology and when liturgy fails as it does in the Roman Catholic church, then there is a greater problem than "just" the liturgy. I was recieved into a swedish speaking parish that is connected with the Church of Antioch during the Ascension Day this year. THIS IS the video to share with all Your Roman Catholic friends. Pray for them, love them and invite them to Your Divine Liturgy in Your local parish. Please, pray for me. God bless from Andrés Chacòn/Gothenburg
I am also a Filipino....But sad to say...your reasons for leaving Catholicism is very shallow....The Charismatic Liturgy has its roots from King David and St. John the Baptist...
Look at "2 Kings 6:2-16" and Luke 1:39-56...
You will see the parallelism of Mary and the Ark of the Covenant and King DAvid dancing and ST. John the Baptist dancing....
You can visit this website to learn more about these passages... www.fisheaters.com/visitation.html
@@krishyyfan5153
The reality is that the modern Charismatic Movement has its roots in early 20th century Pentecostalism and a large number of them deny the Trinity and are called "Oneness Pentecostals".
@@pravolub8 pentecostals did not invent charistmatic movement...it already existed thousands of years during the time of King David....
What a beautiful story! Thank you for sharing!
@@krishyyfan5153 What paralellism? That is hysterical! I'm not exactly sure why you think a private dance by King David was synonymous with the Jewish liturgy as King David was NOT a Catholic. And John the Baptist was also a JEW, and the verses provided mean absolutely nothing in terms of the tradition of both Jewish and Christian liturgical practices. You're basically saying as Protestants do that your liturgy (and Protestant service) should be whatever you make of it because King David and Mary rejoiced before God (in privacy no less.) Goodness sakes. Make a coherent argument. That is total bologna.
Thank you for your most enlightening talk, Father Josiah. I am a Latin Rite Catholic who has found the Byzantine Greek Catholic Church (Ruthenian). Now I call myself a "biritual" Catholic. My Byzantine Greek Catholic Church is traditionally Orthodox in Liturgy and in tradition. Sometimes we are called "Orthodox in Union with Rome" or the "Uniate" Church. Around the year 1680 AD our Orthodox Church asked the Pope to be united with the Roman Church with the condition that our traditions and liturgies be retained. We use the same Orthodox liturgy, e.g., the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom or that of St. Basil the Great. The Nicean Creed that is chanted is the ancient form of the Creed (without the Filioque). Byzantine seminaries allow married men to be ordained priests.
We have married priests with children (which confuses traditional Roman Catholics of the Latin rite.
I long for the day, I pray for the day that I would be allowed to attend Divine Liturgy in an Orthodox Church and partake of the sacred Eucharist. We are really ONE CHURCH because Christ established ONE CHURCH, not a divided one. Religious men, "holy" men, separated the Churches against the wishes of the Holy Spirit. These same "holy" men, religious men of the Church must, with the power of the Holy Spirit, bring these Churches back together as One, in Union. We belong to Christ Who established One Church.
Peter D. Aglione I was told while doing my research on this topic that, Orthodox Catholics can partake of the Eucharist in an orthodox church...I was told this by two separate orthodox priests...Also of course in a Catholic mass...
Favorite melodies not true at all. Both Catholic and Orthodox require professing the same faith. There are no Orthodox in union with Rome. They are Catholics of Eastern Rites.
Why don't you just become Orthodox?
I am a Catholic, genuinely interested in Orthodoxy, and very much wanting to learn more, but was disappointed in some of the inaccuracies in Father Josiah's talk, especially about Fatima.
The three children Our Lady appeared to were not three sisters. They were a brother and sister and a cousin of theirs. The visionary who lived longest was not the youngest 'daughter' but the eldest of the visionaries, Lucia, who was cousin to the two younger visionaries. If Father Josiah hasn't bothered to check what he knows (and doesn't know) about Fatima, and is so inaccurate, it makes me wonder if I can trust the accuracy of everything else he says. I hope most of what he says is probably more informed, but still, it spoilt it for me.
There is a small correction ('children' superimposed on 'girls'). The gender of the children is secondary to the story with the King of Portugal.
I grew up in a mostly protestant country with family belonging to both orthodoxy, Catholicism and also Protestantism. Seeing how we the west have evolved our society to become what it is today is very saddening to me, and I plan on joining the Orthodox Church when I return home this summer yet I’m not sure which... I’m not sure how my family and friends will react, yet I feel as if ‘back to the basics’ is the only way to restore the greatness of God in our society and I’m trying to exercise the Great Lent fast starting tomorrow. If anyone reading this have any tips or advice, I’d love to hear it✌🏼
We are Roman Catholic. What you said about Francis is spot on. He is the main reason we are
exploring the Orthodox church.
My brother was in school for the ministry as a Protestant when he uncovered the history of the Christian Church back to the apostles. He really soul searched for months. He was sure he had to convert to Roman Catholicism because that's as far back as he knew until he discovered that the Roman Church split from the original church, which is now called the Orthodox Church. It took nearly a year, but he visited his local Orthodox Church, asked questions, attended classes, and finally God laid on his heart that he was home. He converted a few years ago and now just this last month my father converted as well. We did not see that coming. He was the greatest apologist against it! The Lord laid on my father's heart one day that he too would convert to Orthodoxy. BAM! Saul turns into Paul! It was crazy and amazing!
And I'm still attending a Protestant church with my husband...
To be honest, I have never seen my family so happy. They are new people. The purpose in their lives is absolutely renewed. My mother is hesitant, and my father is patient and kind with her. I pray you find your way with the Lord. And if it would help, the Orthodox Church offers classes for those who are interested. It would not be so hard for an RC to convert as it was for my Protestant family. God bless!
Rachel Shelley the veneration of Mary is not Biblical. For me, that is an all stop.
@@KristiLEvans1 "Honor thy mother and thy father"...do you really think we could even come close to honoring Mary (the Theotokos) more than her one and only Son, who happened to be God?? Where in the Bible does it say everything about the Christian faith will be found explicitly in the Bible itself? (spoiler alert: it doesn't). Yet we see 2 Thessalonians 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle." The apostles themselves saw their oral tradition to be just as important as their written....and the veneration of Mary is almost as old as the Church. Orthodox Christians and Catholics existed 1500+ years before the Reformation, and we all honor Mary in a way that Protestants have forgotten. As a former Lutheran, the evidence is undeniable that the early Church held these views and even within early Lutheranism, Mary was venerated. I think it was the 3rd ecumenical council that gave Mary the title of "Theotokos", the Mother of God... that title alone should let Christians know Mary's place of veneration (veneration is different from worship...we venerate people all the time in secular society and it's not considered "worship" by the way). You also say regarding the veneration of Mary "for me, that is an all stop"..... 2 Peter 1:20: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." You don't get to decide how the Church interprets Scripture within the context of Tradition...that's the job of the 2000+ years of the Church.
Dr. Bret Powell you pray to her. You believe she was immaculately conceived, was taken up to heaven, bodily, and that she is co-redemptrix. That puts her as almost peer to Hesus Christ. You have to use tortured typology to hammer the Bible into fitting Mary into that role, as it is not Biblical, at all.
All of this is fine. We just have different religions. Church tradition and dogma is the guide and they teach a different view and essence of Mary. For me, if it’s not in the Bible, I don’t believe it. Sola scriptura - which is anathema to the RCC - is all I do.
@@KristiLEvans1 This is a great conversation! "You pray to her". I'm assuming you mean that prayer in itself is somehow always worship? Where is that in the Bible? Prayer in English simply means a "petition", a request. Orthodox actually do not believe in the immaculate conception of Mary or her role as co-redemptrix. Those are Catholic terms that are foreign to the Orthodox. We recognize the Dormition of Mary on August 15th. Was Mary assumed into heaven? Likely! Given the vernation of relics of those as far back as the apostles (look at the Bible! ...you won't find relics of Mary the Mother of God....don't you think that is strange in itself? At the time of the apostles, there were people even wanting to bring the sick in their presence, even if just the shadow of St Peter! Acts 5:15: "Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them." These people desired to have even the shadow of St. Peter pass over them...don't you think they would have had a very dedicated veneration to the remains of Mary if her body was still around?) As a former protestant, I can honestly say that I always knew something was missing in regards to the unified body of Christ...and part of that is the logical practice of asking for prayers of intercession from our saints, those who have died but are still part of the same body of Christ. Just like I'd ask a friend here on earth to pray for me, so too I'd ask a saint in heaven. And why wouldn't you want the Mother of God praying for you? Look at the Old Testament if you want typology. Who was the queen with King Solomon? His Mother, whom he had a throne built to be on his right side (1 Kings 2:19: Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.) Mary is the New Eve. She's the new Ark of the Covenant. This is theology that protestants have LOST...it's not new and has been around since the beginning of the Church. Mary is our adopted mother...why wouldn't you want to talk with her?
"Rock and Sand" Remind's me of a song when I was a child I heard and we sang ( I grew up Protestant) Changed to Orthodox, But the song says " The foolish man built his house upon the sands and the rains can tumbling down. (* It was demolished it anyway) Then the Wise man built his house upon the rock and the house stood firm. * This is telling this song in short, but this is sort of how it went.
This is a very interesting talk! I am already halfway and plan on watching the rest of it. And please, in the charity of love and pursuit of truth, I will also send you to Fr. Chris Alar’s videos tackling most Orthodox criticisms of Catholicism and which ones have historical substance and which ones may be more or less embellished.
If I can watch an entire perspective directly from Orthodoxy I pray you will also charitably watch the Catholic perspective in Fr Chris Alar’s talks.
I'm a Roman Catholic and I love Othodox church. I don't want to convert to Orthodox Church but I pray that once again Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox be united.
Glad to see videos are still being made on this channel. God bless. I read a year or two ago, that the Patriarch of Moscow allowed the veneration of Pre-Schism Celtic saints. I'm an Orthodox catechumen. Though, I'm not very good at it. Prayers.
Olivia, don’t be discouraged, none of us are, that’s why we need Gods grace ;)
Ron Grimes have you been reading any orthodox books in the time being? Also patristic nectar has an entire series of catechumen classes you can get.
Ron Grimes no worries Ron, orthodoxy is not learned in a day or a week or even a year. Many things take lifetimes to learn, growing in virtues such as patience, persistence, ECT are life long struggles. So be patient pray to God and he will provide for you the right people to come into your life to teach you everything you need to know. The best advice I could give it just don't give up, keep pushing and praying and God will guide you.
Be worried, very worried, if you ever think you’re good at being Orthodox! ☦️ Have a blessed Pascha.
Destynation Z Well your arrogance certainly isn't helping to create unity now is it?
Thank you father: in your words I see genuine desire for reconciliation with the Catholic church and a deep love and understanding for western tradition. I know union seems so far ahead of us and mutual skepticism is still yet but overcomed, yet I pray one day the Lord will clear our vision and bring His flock together once again.
With your Papal blessing of the Sodom & Gomorrah... things are not going well for your wishes.
I am a Roman Catholic. I really liked Fr. Josiah's exposition. I wish the session could have been longer
Thank you Father for the much needed talk...still there are mistakes regarding RC doctrine sometimes historical, sometimes current. Yet bias and loyalty is both good and bad. We are blessed to have you educate and speak out. Many years!
ruclips.net/video/Gfva7Zwzyfs/видео.html
Although some parts are hard to listen to (probably my pride getting in the way),I greatly appreciate Fr. Josiah’s perspective. There does appear to be some bias and misinformation from him but I’ll be praying for him.
For my fellow Catholics here, I know it’s been a tough stretch of time but the future is bright. Everything is pointing to a resurgence of tradition within Catholic liturgies. Seminarians (of which I am one) and newly ordained priests are overwhelmingly traditional and orthodox in terms of liturgical views and principles. Please pray for Pope Francis and for the reunification of all Christians!
This is fascinating. I have been drawn to the Orthodox Church only over the last few days Christmas tide 2019. I woke up about 2.30 am and returned to this talk which I had found earlier. It is now 6.53 am and I am at 51.01 and not finished. In the 21st Century I have the luxury (and speed) of researching every word and idea I have never heard of thanks to OrthodoxWikie, Wikipedia and the like. I feel a reel 'sympatico' with Orthodox beliefs and understandings. I truly believe I was led here as I have recently started praying to the Arch Angel Michael following a Prayer given to me by a dear friend some years ago. I note Arch Angel Michaels sword and shield and his role in protection. Funny coincidence the Prayer led me first to a lovely Deacon in the Church of England who had previously been a Paratrooper in the British Army! I spoke with the Deacon just before Christmas about negative and frightening experiences I had listening to Evangelical Christian teachings as a child at Sunday School and was greatly helped by his insights and understanding. I had been carrying those burdens for over fifity years........... when I was able to lay them down the door to the Orthodox Church was revealed to me via Mount Athos, The Jesus Prayer, The Desert Fathers and St Gerasimo................ I truly feel and believe that I have found the meaning to my life......... I have always endeavoured to follow Jesus Christ's example but due to my childhood experiences was cut off/trapped somehow?......... I opened the door and have found depth, ritual, meaning, wisdom, discipline, integrity, knowledge, goodness and beauty which I have been looking for all my life............ I know there are issues within the Orthodox Church but to me you shine brightly and I am glad to be 'home'. Thank you for this Master Class! Enjoy
Don't pray to angels as they are not intercessors. Obey Christ and pray to the Father in Jesus' name, he will dispatch sn angel specifically selected to assist and protect you.
How are you faring today in your faith?
You are saying about the decrease of monastic vocation in Catholic Church, but what about the raise of other forms of consecrated life (the new and fruitful religious congregations) and also lay communities that have done many good work? Didn't Jesus say that the Holy Spirit was like the wind that blew whereever He wanted?
I felt compelled to go point by point over Father Trenham’s talk and describe my disagreements.
Father Trenham mentions that in his “In Against the Greeks,” St. Thomas says that anyone outside communion with Rome is lost, and says that Church teaching on this has changed, (referencing some Vatican II documents which take a more liberal stance).
I would agree that this framing of things is novel, but I would say that this change has been a *development* of implicit doctrine into explicit. St. Augustine himself said that "there are sheep within, and wolves without." This took many centuries to develop into the precise understanding which the Roman Church now possesses about the nature of implicit baptism and invincible ignorance.
As best I understand it: to be outside communion in the fullest sense means to be *willfully* outside of communion-to know that Rome is the true Church, yet to turn away and obstinately remain in schism. One is not outside of communion in the fullest sense if one is ignorant of this reality and if one is *not culpable for this ignorance.* As to the question of how it could even be possible for one to know the truth yet turn away (as one might think that this is very improbable) As scripture says: even the demons believe-and shudder!
Re: ~30 minutes, what Father Trenham says about Fatima. What the king said is consistent with this:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consecration_of_Russia#Inquiry_of_1946
St. Lucia describes a return to Christ through Orthodoxy. Our Lady’s words were indeed proven true by Russia’s abandonment of atheistic communism and return to Christ through Orthodoxy!
***
On the filioque... no less of an authority than Fr. Kallistos Ware doesn’t believe that there’s a true difference in theology here.
It seems to me that the Lord, the Holy Spirit (who is also called the spirit of Christ) is sent by Christ as well as the Father, even though He (the Holy Spirit) originates in the Father.
Re Father Trenham's comments on papal primacy and his objection to the idea that someone could serve as Peter’s representative on earth and bear his authority: this should be no more controversial than apostolic succession (among the bishops, whose authority all orthodox Christians accept). Authority is transmitted along with office-Peter had preeminent authority over the apostles (being the first to confess Christ), and this authority is passed down to the Bishop of Rome.
***
Palamism vs. Thomas seems to be an extremely abstruse and recondite discussion which delves deeply into metaphysics. I really have no further views on this, as I don’t know enough about the subject. In fact, I don't know if I'm intellectually capable enough to EVER grapple with it.
***
On indulgences:
“If the Pope has the power to bind and to loose, why doesn’t he do so right now for all souls?”
We may as well ask the same of God. Why purgatory at all? Why not immediately purify souls in a single painless instant at death?
The answer to both questions is probably the same. God wants humanity to help one another-he wants us all to freely cooperate in our collective salvation, even though He is the ultimate source of it all.
Fr. Trenham denies Purgatory but also alludes to some struggle after death (probably the Tollhouses). What true substantive difference is there?
Along the same lines, we could ask: why does God not remove the need for this painful struggle?
(continued)
The Holy Virgin’s status as the immaculate does not detract from her greatness in any way. Or else Christ is not greater than us, because He was never tempted, either (I.e: he never experienced the subjective feeling of temptation). However, even St. Aquinas did not believe in the immaculate conception. The Church seems to have come to understand it over time (more development of doctrine) not through theology but through private revelation and the sense of the people as a whole.
Either way, I don’t see how it is at all impious or disrespectful to claim that somebody never sinned and never had the stain of original sin on their soul. Quite the opposite, actually.
What I *truly* think, actually, is that it is another instance of the Orthodox violently rejecting the authority of the Pope by rejecting anything connected to it. The declaration of the Holy Virgin Mary’s Immaculate Conception is one of the few dogmas which was explicitly pronounced ex cathedra by the Pope… i.e: it is a truth which we must believe and which we are bound to believe by his authority. If it was not so closely tied to Papal infallibility, I doubt that the Orthodox would have the same problem with it.
I sense this verges on ad hominem. Apologies if I am being insulting. Let me interject in my own stream of comments here and say that I have an extremely strong affinity for eastern spirituality and almost an aversion to western aesthetics and the western mode of doing things. In my heart, I feel I am more Greek than I will ever be Roman. Nevertheless, I believe that Rome bears the fullness of the faith-and I feel compelled to defend my faith when I hear things which I think are not true. Moving on...
***
Re: Father Trenham’s comments on the sign of the cross... this is, quite frankly, aesthetic minutia. The sign of the cross was changed in another way (two vs. three fingers) during the reforms of the Patriarch Nikon in the 17th century, which caused a schism in Russia (Old Believers). If the minuscule details like the exact form of the sign of the cross are truly important, then the old believers are right!
Re: Father Trenham's comments on the sacraments. The way the sacraments are administered can develop over time. Ironically, it is Orthodoxy itself which proves that! At the last supper (the first liturgy/mass) Christ used unleavened bread. The use of leavened bread seems like a very early innovation, but it is a wholly licit one (another thing which Latins accept but which the Eastern Orthodox do not).
The central problem, I think, is Orthodoxy’s untenable rejection of the idea of the development of doctrine-the idea that certain truths of the faith are present in an implicit form, to be drawn out and made explicit by theology, mysticism, or tangles with heretics (or the sensus fidelium / private revelation). This is present in the East as well-i.e: how the apostles' creed developed into the Nicene-Constantinopolitan creed. Even the modern and very long Catholic Catechism is a gorgeous, intricate, and ornate recapitulation, in extreme detail, of the ancient Apostles Creed.
And what about the adoption of a more realistic painting style in the eastern church? Starting in Russia in the 17th century! Again tied to the reforms of the Patriarch Nikon. If every little detail of the liturgy is really so important (if doctrinal and liturgical development ceased somewhere before the year 1000)-then again, the old believers are right.
Regarding celibacy:
The celibacy of latin priests is not dogma, but discipline. It could be changed. This is why there are married catholic priests. Eastern Catholics and some anglicans. This is another tradition which the west is willing to accept something which the east seemingly will not.
Also, I find it hard to believe that the apostles did not live in perpetual continence, simply because I think that all Christians believe that, ceteris paribus, celibacy is a higher state than marriage (NOT because sex and childbearing is bad, but because the celibate has a greater freedom to fully devote themselves to God). This is why St. Paul says that it is better not to marry. Not that marriage is bad. But celibacy is better. Being so close to Christ in so many ways, I find it hard to believe that the apostles did not emulate him in celibacy as well.
Mortification of the flesh can be done through self flagellation as well as abstinence from food. St. Paul talks about disciplining his body, putting it into subjection. Both seem valid, although self-flagellation can certainly go too far (but the same is true of fasting!).
On standing and sitting:
Catholics still stand during the gospel and kneel very often during the mass. I also think there is some licit variability which is due to culture. In the west, sitting is seen as a sign of attentive respect towards a teacher.
The Father’s points about aesthetic ugliness and its importance to the faith are all very well taken. I feel the same way about the modernist monstrosities which infest the modern Catholic Church and the shameful and sad liturgical destruction which happened with the promulgation of the Novus Ordo rite in the 60s. The Church is in dark times. But it has never taught anything untrue, and it remains the Church of Christ.
On the councils and Archbishop Cordileone’s comments on them:
The councils after the first millennium were ecumenical because they were held among all the bishops who did not separate themselves from the Pope. They are valid because the Pope is the earthly source of unity among Christians. This is not just a bombastic statement, either-history has borne it out:
The East has been able to hold a true ecumenical council in over 1200 years! There is no council after the second council of Nicea which all Orthodox accept. On the other hand, there are no Catholics (Sedevacantists and the like are schismatics) who do not accept a further 14 councils, with the most recent being the famous Vatican II in the 60s (which, admittedly, is quite controversial, but only represented further development of doctrine... properly interpreted, it is in complete harmony with all preceding councils).
I share Father Trenham’s desire for reconciliation between the brethren. I just urge anyone reading this to look past the modernistic ugliness and the tremendous difficulties which the modern Catholic Church is going through. Despite all the infamies and scandals, it remains the Church which Christ established. It is always darkest before the dawn. The darkness of the cross precedes the glorious light of the resurrection.
On the matter of ecumenism, I urge anyone to objectively look at the relations between East and West in the Catholic Church, especially in recent history, and tell me which party is trying harder to establish a fraternal reconciliation.
Is there any serious project among the Orthodox to bring their brethren Latins back into communion with what they believe is the true Church? How can there be, when among themselves the Orthodox are divided into various national Churches which do not even agree on the validity of each others’ baptisms?
I know that at this point I am verging into the polemic, but I do feel compelled to speak from my heart in this matter. I know that among faithful charitable orthodox Christians it will only provoke more fruitless disputation. I am utterly certain that I bear more pride and less love for Christ in my heart than Father Trenham-a man who to all appearances seems sincere and fervent in his pursuit of the truth in the person of Jesus. But I am equally certain that I have to defend what I believe and what I know to be true.
Thank you for your talk. Much appreciated. However, as a Roman Catholic, I was taught that the Virgin Mary was conceived in her mother’s womb, like all humanity, but she also received her baptism while in the womb by the Holy Spirit, and given special graces to never sin. This was necessary for the great role she was to have in the nurturing of Jesus and as future Mother of the Church. St. John the Baptist was also baptized in the womb by the Holy Spirit, when the Virgin Mary came to visit St. Elizabeth. He too would have special role to play with regards to the Messiah and required the graces of baptism to do so.
I am Catholic and this is a wonderful video 🙏💜
Yes!. The Catholic Church evangelist the World as the Orthodoxies stayed Nationalistic!
You are a Protestant.
@David Phillips everything he said about Catholicism is true, if that doesn't open your eyes I don't know what will
@David Phillips Roman Catholics put the Orthodox on a pedestal because they have everything the RCC used to have. Orthodox don't put the RCC on a pedestal because it has everything they never want to have. (Except the positive points he argues here.)
Does anyone know what song is at the beginning in the intro or at least what type of music that is?
Interesting take on the Fatima message, but he should have listened to his friends a bit better. The Fatima seers were Lucia and her two cousins Francesco and Jacinta.
Thank you and bless you, I am drawn to the Orthodox, and I wish you all well. Thank you for this fabulous talk. ❤️
His talks are all lies and misinformation, the recent popes have given them so much respect for no reason.
No matter how hard the Roman Catholic Church of Christ try to bring these schematics to her bosom they will keep despising her out of their jealousy
Nabeel Younis I did notice resentment. Like, this people got some serious beef against the Catholics. Wow! It did not escape me that even though the Church realized that treating them wrong is not ok, they still hate her guts! Hahahahaha. What the freak?
I am Catholic I could not resist your video. Very nice, relaxing and informative Where are you located please? Would it be possible to visit your Church?
Carole, please remember that it is a mortal sin against the First Commandment to participate in the heretical worship services.
@@standev1That's not what my Bible says. Is there a Bible out called the Standev 1 version now?
@@karenpierce6424 Are you a Catholic? If not, you should become one.
@@standev1 Should I say thanks or be insulted -- lol!
@LookingIntoTheAbyss Aren't you just a nasty judgmental creature! You need to read your Bible. Judge not lest you be judged. People who think they're perfect enough to judge others are usually not. May God have mercy upon you !
Not only did we lose the Latin, Mozarabic, Maronite and other liturgical traditions as a consequence of the Great Schism--we also lost the beautiful liturgical rites of what now are called Oriental Orthodox churches in an earlier schism. The Great Schism was horrible, but the other schism absolutely breaks my heart because the OOs are so similar to EOs...and I think there's a far better chance of healing that rift than there is with the Vatican. After what went down at the Amazon Synod, I have no desire ever to see Orthodoxy reenter communion with the Vatican.
Yep, there has been some talk of Orientals rejoining the Eastern Orthodox Christians.
What happened at the amazon synod?
Father Josiah Trenham and his family are in special prayers.